Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Denver Falters, 76ers’ Turnaround, Don’t Forget About The Clippers

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to talk the Nuggets’ struggles of late including an interesting lineup decision, the 76ers turning things around, Bronny getting some rotational minutes, Wemby & Zubac getting into it, why people should not forget about the Clippers with Kawhi back, a potential flaw for the Thunder and a huge win for the Warriors. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hooke Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon, joining us from New York City, where he's just back from seeing the Cleveland Cavaliers

win in Miami on Wednesday night. Timbontemps. Hello, everyone. I have a question for the panel. Do you guys get constantly told that you're shorter than you expect on TV from people? Sure. First off, the rest of the panel hasn't been introduced yet. Well, I know.

That's why I asked the question, so then McMahon could answer. Joining us from San Francisco, California, where he was at a very interesting thunder loss to the Warriors on Wednesday night, where Shaggill and S. Alexander's Guard 52 and didn't get a victory is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. No, as a man of great stature, I never get told that I'm sure than people thought. People tell you they think you're shorter? I misspoke. The thing that happens to me regularly is that people say to me, man, you're a lot taller than I thought. Yesterday, a guy came up to me at the game, not for the first time, and said, man, when you're on TV,

I think you're like 5, 7. Well, and I just don't understand why anybody with you get anything about my life. This is a humble brag. It's not a humble brag. It happens a lot, and I think it's weird. Well, I project stature. You are very, you know, you're the USWB. You're a very whiny fella,

and they think you're probably like some of those wee little wreaths. C.J. Walton, little fella, boy, he gave old Fancy the heave-ho last night. Old Chris Fence had to watch the wolves polish off that wind from the locker room after he muttered a few apparently derogatory comments is what the pool report said. Ooh, wait. Say what you will about friend of the podcast, Tyler Ford. But Wednesday night in Indianapolis, beef stew got into it with Thomas Bryant. These are two giant men.

The combination of Isaiah Stewart. and Tyler Ford. Yes. You're going to have conflict. Okay. So this was a flagrant two ejection. There was Lego beef in this game. Okay?

You remember a couple weeks ago? Yes, I remember. Obviously, we're joking about all this anyway. Isaiah Stewart said to Miles. All right. Isaiah Stewart said to Miles Turner, you play with like a smack talk, you play with Legos. And I defended people who play with Legos.

I mean, I don't play with them, but I build them with my seven-year-old. And I don't, I'm not ashamed of it. But last night there was a rematch. Stuart was getting into it again, shoves Thomas Bryant down. I mean hard. Like put Brian on his butt. Like this was no flop. Does Stuart off the court as a mild manner dude?

And on the court, he gets into stuff all the time. Well, guess who was getting into it. Guess who was getting into it. Tyler Ford comes running in, breaks up the potential altercation, and then ejects beef stew on the spot. Not saying what you want, McMahon. Tyler Ford was not afraid in that moment. Tyler Ford has a six foot four persona in a five foot.

What is Bon Temps? A five foot four persona in a six foot four frame. I think I have one of his own case of SMS, small man syndrome. That's why people think you're a little fella. Okay. Oh my God. I just find it amusing anyone would factor in size of anything when they see my head on TV. Oh, hey, easy, cowboy.

I'm having a private conversation with Jackson right now. Jackson, I can't believe what just happened. Bond Temps tried to come in here and do a humble brag and McMahon rejected the shot into the fourth row. Perhaps I knew exactly what I was doing. It's easy to reject because he comes in small and weak, you know? Oh my God. All right. So something interesting is happening with the Denver Nuggets right now. They were one of the hottest teams in the league. And now they've lost three in a row. They're on a long East Coast trip. The loss in Chicago was we. rough. They lost in New York on Wednesday. The Knicks were awesome offensively in that game. Jalen Brunson had another awesome game. Tied a record that was held by Richie Garen. That's a Bob Pettit era name there, McMahon. For the most games in Nick's history with 30 points and more than 10 assists

or something like that, because he had another great game last night. But I'm not even like so focused on the nuggets losing, although they have to play the Red Hot Sixers. We'll talk about second in the next game. But Michael Malone was being forced into the corner on something, and he finally made up his mind. Aaron Gordon had been back off of this calf injury. They had been playing really well when he was out. They were leaving him coming off the bench on a minute restriction. And the minute restriction was lasting awfully long. Like it was okay. Yeah. Well, I protect his calf. I get it. He's important player. But like they got to make a decision. And we talked about this when he came back. What would Michael Malone do? Would Michael Malone do? Would Michael

Malone, stick with Russell Westbrook, who's been excellent in the starting lineup, or would he leave Aaron Gordon on the bench, which, you know, I don't think Aaron Gordon had a problem with, but I don't think it's the best usage of your roster. I don't know. I might as say Gordon had a problem with it, but, you know, like Aaron Gordon is clearly an NBA starter and a, you know, a championship starter. Yeah. So what he chose to do was stick with Russell Westbrook and put Christian Brown on the bench. And a couple of interesting things. happened. One, Malone went so far as to say that right now, Yokic and Westbrook are the best two-man duo in the league. That's interesting statement. And then Christian Brown, as you can imagine,

was not thrilled because he has been playing well. And he was the heir apparent. You know, when they let KCP walk, it was sort of given to him. And his quote was, obviously, I took a lot of pride in having that spot, trying to win that spot. And I'm going to try to work to get it back. He did say I'm very grateful for opportunity. He wasn't like, you know, taking a shot at his coach. I want to give some context there. But like, you know, he lost the starting job. So the Nuggets were really moving in the right direction, Bontemps.

And, you know, the thing about the Nuggets, like, they've got some issues and the organizations made some decisions that have hurt their chances and they've had some bad luck or whatever. When Yonog was just at top of his game, they probably still believe they can beat any of the teams in the West in a series. I still think they're dangerous. this is a this is a situation that you could see coming it involves a classic coaching decision old vet young player and so this is going to be this to me beyond all the trade stuff and all the

you know various dramas this to me is one of the most interesting things going on in the NBA right now Malone went with Westbrook yeah I mean Michael I mean to me this is a very classic case I mean we talked about it a couple weeks ago whenever it was and we talked about this in the first place the nuggets are falling into the very classic problem with a player like Russell Westbrook, which is they are placating Russell Westbrook overdoing what's the right thing for the team. This includes Michael Malone saying something I thought was completely insane when he said that Russell Westbrook and Nicole Yokitch are the best two-man duo in the league right now in terms of a two-man game. Jamal Murray and Nicole Yokic, Jamal Marie had 33 points last night.

Jamal Murray's finally playing like Jamal Murray again. They won a championship with the two of them having perfect synchronism, being perfectly in sync in the two-man game. And now we're saying Russell Westbrook is better with this after three months than Nicole Yocch Jabal Maria are after nine years. Like the only reason you're saying that is to try to justify why you are taking Christian Brown out of the starting lineup and leaving Russell Westbrook in it. And look, I very well may be proven wrong.

Maybe Denver goes on to win the title. Yokic is still, I think, the best player. So certainly if they're in a series against anybody in the West, you're going to feel confident if you're Denver, you can win. But we've seen Russell Westbrook in big roles in the playoffs the last few years. It doesn't tend to go very well. And if you're now putting them in the starting lineup and making them a critical part of your team, it makes it much harder to decrease that role later. And I think that's only going to come back to bite Denver down the road.

I mean, this is playing out, though, in terms of the decision, exactly like I told you guys, it was going to when they came through Dallas. Michael Malone unprompted, telling us, hey, the record at the time, the record, I think, was like 11 and 3 and 12 and 3 when Russ and Joker start together. He was pre-justifying the decision that was going to be made. He bought kind of some time with the Aaron Gordon ramp up, as a very gradual ramp up. Now, Gordon was coming off his second calf sprint into season. There was certainly reason for a cautious ramp up there. And there was a, I did wonder at one point last week, like, are you going to leave Gordon in that reserve role? But, you know, Brown was the guy who made sense all along.

Gordon's been a starter for, you know, his whole time endeavor, including a championship run. You know, obviously, Jamal Murray has a max contract. You're not bringing him off the bench. You need Michael Porter's shooting in that lineup. So, you know, Brown's the guy who was the obvious option. And look, I don't think this is just about placating Russell Westbrook. Best duo in the league? Okay, we're, there's some high...

They're clearly not the best duo on. There's some hyperbole there. A duo that has really worked. Like there's a lot of, you know, film and data that tells you keeping Russell Westbrook in the starting lineup does make sense from a basketball perspective for the Nuggets. Having said that, I do think that if you're asking Russ, after having that much success in the starting lineup to go back to a reserve role, you are playing with some fragile dynamics there in terms of a very, very priestly. mindful accomplished veteran player. Which is exactly the problem. Well, listen, also, I'm not going to overreact to three games where, frankly, they've been

atrocious defensively these three games. This isn't about these games now. We've seen the Russell Westbrook experience in the playoffs. And Russell's flaws are going to be a problem. And this is only creating a situation where you're going to have Russell expected to be playing 35 to 40 minutes a game in the playoffs. and if he then is asked to play 20 or 15 or something, or they just don't do that, then, you know, this is going to be a topic.

Well, it will be. And if I'm channeling Michael Malone, I say you haven't seen Russell Westbrook in the playoffs with Nicola Yokich as his teammate. Well, that's true. It is a different thing than Russ standing in the corner last year for the Clippers and the Maverick saying, we ain't guarding him. I still think they're going to be saying, we ain't guarding him wherever he's at on the court. Well, then he'll cut to the basket and get a bunch of layups.

Well, sure. It also goes to the bigger thing in Denver that has existed for a while now, which is, you know, Malone prefers the veterans, and the front office has given him young players. And, you know, they've traded into the drafts to get guys like Peyton Watson and Jillian Strother. And obviously, they believe heavily in Christian Brown. But I think it's more than just a discussion about, you know, because it kind of goes to the game.

you were at last night, McMahon. The Thunder are awesome. They've got a lot going for him, them. They very easily, not easily, but you could see them winning the championship this year. You could certainly see them winning the West, but they are not yet proven to be an impenetrable force. Like they have some challenges.

In this game last night, Shea scored 52 points. Jalen Williams had 26. He took 26 shots. He got to the foul line one time and missed both free three, He, you know, we have seen occasionally, Bon Temps has been talking about this where they have a lack of, you know, they've got some flaws with their roster.

It's not a crime. The Rockets are young. They're not a perfect team and they're not a proven playoff team. Right. And Memphis is the same thing, you know, and they're injury prone. And Houston is super young. I don't know how we can trust what they're going to do.

These are the teams that are in front of the nuggets. And so, like, I think the Nuggets believe if they can crawl into that top four and give themselves a shot at, you know, getting into the final four in the West. They think they've got what it takes, and I don't blame them for Yolkich. So these decisions are important. These are decisions could control about how the West goes.

And as Bontem's talked about last week, he got Jamal Murray. I mean, Jamal Murray's level of play is arguably one of the most important things in the league. And by the way, Jamal at 33 in this game, and again, is continuing to look like Jamal Murray again, which is a big deal. Well, and Joker had a dud in New York by a 17 on, 17 points on 6 of 15, 6 and 6. A couple of the shots that he put up in this. I only watched most of the second half.

A couple, you know, Yokich throws in some slop that we can't believe, but he usually knows what he's doing. Yokich has the most incredible paint touch in the league and like whether he's off balance getting bumped, usually it's not matter. In this game, it mattered because he threw up some shots in this game where you're like, I don't know what you're doing there, bud. I was also quite amused on this topic that Draymond Green picked this game when Nicole Yokwitch was very pedestrian against Carl Towns.

to then try to blast Carl Towns for his defense. I was like, you know what? Nicoyo could shoot in six for 15 and going 17, 6 and 6. So he's pretty good to me, Draymond. Seems like a pretty good outcome for the next. Damon has a lot of free time right now. He's not playing. Like, Draymond is a tremendous troll.

Sure is. Obviously, he's a brilliant basketball mind. That doesn't mean you have to take all his very public analysis seriously. Of course. It just was an easy moment to slip it in here. Yeah. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Well, okay, so let's just see how it goes with the Nuggets.

So the Nuggets next game, Huntems, are you heading down 95? I will be in Philadelphia the night this pod runs Friday night to see the suddenly streaking Sixers, who had lost seven in a row as Cavs Corner came to Philly, looked like the season was going off the rails. Yeah, we were recalculating their chances on that top six protected pick. Then they had a crazy win against the calves, scored a million points, we'll go to Chicago the next night and win, then come home and win a back-to-back set against the Lakers and the Kings, including in the fourth quarter Wednesday night, having for half the fourth quarter basically a lineup of Reggie Jackson, Kyle Lowry, Ricky Council, Kelly Ubre, and Adem Bona, playing head-to-head with the starters for the Kings and I think stretching the lead-out. So it's certainly been a wild week. Did you mention Paul George didn't play in that game? Paul George didn't play in either of the Lakers or the games.

You have to tell us when he does play. It's not news if he doesn't. That is more so with Embed, but yeah. By the way, doing handstands at practice, what is happening? Look, I don't know what's happening. Well, we'll see. We'll see.

There will be an update on Joel's status for Friday sometime later Thursday after we record. It's early Thursday afternoon. So we'll see what happens then. But yeah, it's been a stunning turn of events in Philly, given where they were a week ago. They play the Sixers play the Nuggets on Friday and the Celtics. So they're in the middle of a long home stand here, right? Bond Tempsult they play like five or six in a row at home. Well, yeah, this is part of the crazy 13 game stretch they had where 12 of the games were against teams of winning records.

And 10 of the games were part of back to backs. And they just ripped off four wins in a row after losing the prior seven. It's a complete whiplash. This is one of the reasons why God bless all of you. I think it's insane to bed. on individual NBA games. I just, and just really quickly.

Unless you use ESP embed, then it's great. Well, I actually think you might be able, there might be something you can do with analyzing individual player performance, but God bless you if you can get, if you can do it right.

While we're talking about it right now, so the Sixers are now two losses back of Atlanta and ninth, and they're actually a loss ahead of the Bulls in 10th. Oh, Jalen Johnson. Yeah. Jalen Johnson now out for the season for Atlanta. just a brutal having to have shoulder surgery.

He's had a great year. And going back to last season, anytime he hasn't played, they have looked like a completely different team. And Chicago is clearly also going the other way. So like, again, we're sitting here again somehow with the Sixers. They can actually get their guys on the court.

Maybe they can get to play. I'm sorry. That's all I was going to say. Use your move and jump in. But as a real quick aside on Atlanta, Atlanta doesn't control their draft. Pact pick, obviously. It belongs to the Spurs from the DeJante Murray Trade. They have a bunch of expiring money on their books. They've been sort of content to just play with this roster

for this season. Bogdan Bogdanovich, Clint Capella, Larry Nance, our three contracts. Bogdanovich is not expired. Who am I forgetting? They got another big expiring. I will look it up. The other two guys are, for sure. Bogdanovich goes next. year. They've got some players that they could use in trade. They haven't been very active as far as I know. But now with Jalen Johnson out for the year and they're, you know, I could see them looking at a stopgap measure because I think they'd like to make the, you know, even if it's the playoff through the play in, I think they'd like to. Yeah, I don't think that the Hawks will make a trade that's not in their that isn't in their best interest long term just to try to save base on this pick.

This pick's a sunk cost. Yeah, they will not. I'd be very, very surprised if the Hawks do anything that sacrifices future assets. But to Bryant's point, if they make some maneuvers on the margins to move their roster around some, that I could potentially see. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I have it up now.

They've got Bogdanovich says another year. But, but Bogdanovich has some value, although he's been hurt a lot. But, um... Bionni Hunter has value, too. He's been hurt a lot. He does have value, and I don't think they want to trade him. I, let's put it this way. I think the, the, if anybody calls the Hawks, they're going to take your call.

If you ask for Jalen Johnson, uh, Zachary Richie Shea or Dyson Daniels, you're not going to get anywhere. And I don't think Tray Young is going anywhere. But anybody else, I think they would take your call and talk. I don't think, I would just not be surprised. That's a team that, a week ago, I wouldn't have said I thought would be very active. Now I'm not so sure, because I do think that they have interest in trying to get into the playoffs. There's no penalty to them for it. And I think they believe it only helps their team. So I agree.

You're not going to be seeing them trading away future. You're not going to be seeing them, you know, they've got Cody Zeller that they can put in there. He's in the PJ Tucker, just sit at home and get paid until you get traded. That was the name I was forgetting. I don't you see them like, you know, give away one of their prospect players, but I do think you could see them do something by next Thursday. All right, sorry, I jumped in on Philly. There's a few things happen in there, Bontemps. Like, they're getting some good play out of Eric Gordon, you know, like that's not something we've seen all year. He'd been really not helping them at all. And Tyrese, who is, you know, not going to hear his name called. They don't think for tonight for All-Stars. He shouldn't make the

All-Star team. I mean, nobody's been playing like an All-Star in this stretch. He's been killing. Yeah, look, I mean, there's been some progression of the mean in Philly where they had all season where nobody could hit an open shot and now they have guys starting to hit shots too. But I mean, look, this is also just like we've seen a few of these teams that aren't very good rip off a bunch of wins in the last week or so. Toronto, I think, is won five in a row. I think they'd won seven or eight all season before that. The Bulls had lost a bunch in a row. They just beat Denver. Obviously, the Sixers have won a few in a row. We've seen some weird results here in recent days. But again, it's, I really thought. going into this stretch that the Sixers are going to go two and 11 or something and they were going to be sunk. But the Bulls lost all these games to awful teams, sort of incredibly, because they've been pretty healthy. The Hawks now lose Jalen Johnson. The Sixers rip off a few wins that are unexpected. And now we're sitting here with the Sixers back in shouting distance again and

potentially having their players available. So, so anyway, I was saying this weekend, they're pulling you back in. They play the nuggets on Friday and then the Celtics on Sunday. I remember. when Embed came, who did he play his, did he play this against the Celtics when he came back at the beginning of the season? I can't remember who his first game. Well, anyway, he's very famous for never playing against the Nuggets, right?

Like that's... No, no, no, that's not true. At home, at home, he plays against the Nuggets. He's allergic to altitude. Okay. In Denver's. So do you think he would really... I got to go look when he played his first game.

I think he was a surprising. Do you honestly think that he would come back and... Brian, I, long ago, stopped making any to definitive statements about Joelle and Bede playing or not playing in games. His first game this year was against the Knicks. Hey, Wendy, do you want to make a prediction on that? Nope.

Hold on. No, you seem to be kind of bowing up a little bit feeling good about things. I want to, I want an official Wendy prediction here. No. I do not. I do not make any more predictions about when Joelle Bid may or may not play. I think I should take Bontem's advice on this one. Yeah.

Whereas that is. Well, because there's always. a myriad of factors. Nice job. He's out in Soscon Valley and he's a big time word. A, Bontas can get synchronization out and I got myriad in there, baby. But I'm just saying. Rare reversal.

You definitely get the feeling with Embed that it's not just about how, you know, extremities are feeling that day necessarily. But, I mean, again, they're back in the mix. Speaking of Maxie, I have to say real quick, the Lakers have a game tonight against the Wizards. We'll see what happens. Davis is out for that one. I have to say, before we go on, I just want to take a quick moment to talk about what we saw in Philly the other night where J.J. Reddick, now, Gabe Vincent was out for the game with a sore knee. And I don't think that they've been getting minutes from

Jake Milton that led JJ to want to use him in the rotation. And it was the second night of a back-to-back. Second night of a back-to-back. So J-J, by his own admission, thought that Brani had looked good in the G-League, thought that he looked good in the stay ready games, which is the games that the guys who were not in the rotation play on game days, and said, I'm just going to try Brani in the rotation. And he was in the game in the first quarter,

was he not? Yeah, it was early on, that's for sure. It was his first minutes in the competitive portion of a game since opening night. Right. And it's the first time he's played double-digit minutes all season. And I think maybe the first time he played more than five. Yeah, the most he played before this was in Cavs Corner.

he played five minutes and a blowout loss of the calves back on October 30th. You hadn't played five minutes since then. He played 15 regarding Tyrese Maxie in this game. Yeah. So this is a, I guess I give, on one hand, I guess I give JJ credit for trying to use his roster. Like, that's what teams are supposed to do. On the other hand, it went extremely poorly for Bronzie. And it's just like, it's blown up because he's Bronny James.

Which everybody involved knew would happen. If he was, you know, Bronny Jones, some 50-fifth overall pick who spent the most of the season in G-League, it's no big deal. But that's not the case. And that's, you know, they knew what they were getting into with this whole thing. But yeah, that was a tough one. And he did. He had one big-time G-League performance where he had a 30-point game. Other than that, his numbers aren't anything special down there either.

Yeah, I mean, I think he had shown more of a stability. down there. But Tyrese Maxie, they're both in clutch. They've known each other for years, but there's no friends on the NBA court. Tyrese had to do what he had to do. It's one thing throwing him out there in rotational minutes. It's another thing having him. I mean, Tyrese probably isn't making the All-Star team, but he's an All-Star Guard, and that's a tough ask. I mean, I'm just going to tell you, like, his last three G-le game since the 30-point game, he is shooting 32 percent from the floor. and he has 14 turnovers with 17 assists again.

Well, he's one of 16 from the field in the NBA. And, you know, he took, I think, the most shots he'd ever taken in the game here. And I'd say his confidence is probably a little shaken on that in front. So, but, you know, look, I mean, you play an NBA in the rotation, you know, you, no kid gloves. That's the definition of not kid gloves. Yeah. And like, yeah, and the spotlight is not his, you know, not his doing, but it's the reality of the situation. Every, you know, I mean, it was the most publicized 30-point G-League performance in the history of that league.

And the downside, the harsh side, is part of the deal too. Yeah, okay. So we'll see how the Lakers do. When I was looking at their road trip, I thought that the Philly and Washington games would be the games that they would get. So we'll see now that AD is out, it's going to be a... They better beat the Wizards. I would assume so, but, you know, when we assume things on this pod... They better, they better beat the Wizards.

When you assume things on the Wizards. They better beat the Wizards playing the second night of the back to the game. Well, I'm just saying, when you assume things on this pods, when you start to get in trouble. Speaking of... It's not an assumption. They better beat the Wizards. Well, I assume that Kyle Kuzma will not be waiving his mythical no trade clause again. and I'll go ahead and assume that.

Still one of the most amazing things. We'll see if Kuzma's name is bubbling out there a little bit, so we'll see if he, whether that happens again. Speaking of L.A. teams, I'd like to call y'all's attention to the clippers of Inglewood because they went into San Antonio last night. It was, you know, the other day in Paris, the second game on Saturday,

there was a little bit of contact on the interior in that game, both ways. It was a basic NBA game, but there was a point where Victor thought he got foul and didn't get a call and he reacted like really, really aggressively.

Like in a way I'd not seen him before where like he sort of chirped and I know he's picked up a couple of technicals but we're like it affected the next possession where like he didn't get back and I was like, wow, that is not something

I've seen from Victor before. And then in this game he got a tech. Discovery is about the discovery, McMahon. I like that. In this game, it was their first game back from Paris. There was a transition play where Zubach, you know, it was a mild cheap shot.

I mean, Lubas acknowledged postgame that he was taking his frustrations out with a little. He himself was mad about a call, and so he getting a little shove. Yeah, he'd gotten stuffed by Wimby, and he felt like there were some that weren't called. And so he came back and gave Victor a hip check and sent him from about the dotted line to the baseline. That's right. And like literally all arms and legs like flailed out on the baseline. And would you call it a Victor charge? Would you say he charged him? Oh, yeah. I mean, he did. No, he got, he got to his feet, you know, got all those giraffe legs and everything down in place and took off. And I'm just saying, when I say charge, I think of Isaiah,

going back to Isaiah Stewart. I think about Isaiah Stewart when I think about charges. He's not able to fight through contact as well as Isaiah Stewart. He got held up. He got held up by Mitch Johnson and some other person that was about half his size. Well, you know what was funny about it. So it triggered a timeout. A timeout happened. So there'll be no suspensions.

The Spurs bench came out into the court. And he was having to go through the bench. The funny thing was he was going after Zubatch, obviously. And he kind of, the first guy he ran into was Hardin. Hardin's got his back turned. He's walking to the bench. And all of a sudden, Hardin takes a shot from behind and turns around. round like who the

there's a 7.5 guy he's like what? He's like what did I do? So it was kind of a funny moment. Anyway, the point is Victor is starting to growl a little bit and after this game he growled about the officiating

thinking he doesn't get officiated fairly joining literally thousands ahead of him in the NBA and we could see a fine for Mr. Wembeyanama I suspect. I don't think so. I don't know.

Here's the wimby quotes. It's not even about Zubots. It's just, frustration no matter who it was. And then he was asked if he, if he thinks he gets a fair whistle from officials and he gave the one word answer, no. Yeah, probably now. It's borderline. There's 100% not a fine. It would be ridiculous. And Zubots, apparently, like, Wimby was holding Zubots's jersey in his lap during the press conference, which is interesting. They had made up. And Zubots, as you mentioned, he acknowledged it was a cheap shot. I hope Zubots doesn't put that at that, if that jersey shows up

on eBay like that other kid's jersey, Wemby. Oh, no, no. It was Zubat's jersey in Wemby's lap. Oh, I see. Well, same. I'm sure they swapped. Yeah, I'm sure they swapped.

Yeah, I'm sure they swapped. But Zubat said I reacted a little. I thought I got fouled on the previous play. I was mad at the rest. So then I was late. I saw it going up, Barnshaw going up. I saw Wemby crashing so I knew I had to box him out. I bumped them a little harder.

I let emotions take over a little bit, but I apologize to him. That's not the way I want to be on the court and compete. So it was a blatant foul. it was a cheap shot out of frustration by Zubots who acknowledged, hey, I was in the wrong. I apologize. And it was a no call. So Wimpy is within his rights to have some displeasure with the lack of a whistle here. I also thought it was refreshing. There were no technicals called and the game just moved along and it was fine. And yeah, like it would be because the rest whistles weren't working. Well, that's fine. I'm just saying there's been plenty of times that it would have been fine to just have everybody move along.

we start calling, you know, we got technicals going all over the place. So I was glad we didn't have that. And, I mean, it would be laughable if he got fined for, I mean, that's the most benign criticism of officials ever. I don't think I get a fair whistle. No player in the history of the NBA thinks they get a fair whistle. Well, and let's let, there's a meteor quote here for sure. He says, it's a hard thing to fight because it feels unfair sometimes.

But of course, we talk about it with the staff and there's some stuff I have to do to help myself, first of all, being strump up, yeah. Yeah, I don't think of fine. I'm a back side player. I'm here to play. Yeah, this is why it's frustrating. Not my job to do politics. I can't find here.

There's not a sick. You're being seen. The interesting thing was seeing him get up with all the arms and legs and start chasing after Zubach and showing some of that, which we haven't seen yet. And there's some anger. It was also, you know, he had some ground to cover. And I would think as you're covering that ground, you realize, you probably don't really want this thing to escalate into a physical confrontation with that. Bobch is only three of me wide. Yeah.

You know. I know. And when he saw you, he would say, boy, I thought you were only one-fourth of me. But only I see now you're one. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. All right. Let me read a stat line from this game because I wanted to talk about the Clippers here. 11 of 19 from the field, two of four shooting, six rebounds, seven assists, 27 points and a block. in 29 minutes. That was what number two from the LA Clippers did, Kauai Leonard. You know, when he first came back off of this injury or recovery, whatever you want to call it,

from the off-season knee surgery, they were very, very cautious with his minutes. And they only recently started playing him in the fourth quarter. But let me just say that the Clippers, while no one has been watching, with this win last night, and the Lakers lost the other night in, Philly. They're now in a virtual tie for the fifth seat in the Western Conference.

And I know that you really, it's really not the smartest thing. They've won seven their last 10, by the way. It's not a prudent thing to count on Kauai. But they're in fifth

and Kauai is coming. Hardin is having a good season. He's had better years. He's having a good season. Norm Powell is having a great season. This is a team that has... Hugh Bob's is having a great season. Yep.

Derek Jones has been a part of a, you know, of a really good team that's got, you know, it's really got good team defense. They're getting good production from guys on their bench like Nico Batum and Terrence Mann and Amir coffee. Listen, like,

I'm not saying that like, watch out for the clippers, but like, with Kauai Leonard back, like I think that has to be taken into some account. I don't know what's going to happen. you know, they're, but they're, they were, they overachieve without him and now he's back and starting to play well again, is, is what I'm saying and, and be advised about the clippers. I just don't forget about the clippers, I think is what you can say.

And certainly when Paul George left and we didn't know when Kauai was coming back, what he'd look like and all that, there was a lot of reason to doubt the clippers. But one thing we didn't anticipate was that Norman Powell would play at a star level. Like, he's been a quality player. the guy is averaging 24 per game on extraordinary efficiency. I mean, he's shooting at volume 44% from three point range. You know, Hardens shooting numbers aren't anything pretty, but dude, the guy is, he's one of the best run-the-show point guards in the league.

And then they've done a nice job of putting together these pieces defensively. They're a very good defensive team. and, you know, they brought Kauai back, and you said they've been very, very careful with him. He's only playing 24 minutes per game so far, but they are seven and two when Kauai plays. And, you know, small sample size theater here, but the net rating with Kauai on the floor right now is plus 21.9. I mean, they have been rolling with Kauai on the floor. I mean, listen, Avika Zubach has been one of the more underrated players in the league for a while. He's a terrific two-way center.

James Harden is still a guy who could generate offensive. for his team by himself, even if his shooting isn't where it used to be overall from an efficiency standpoint. Norman Powell's having a great year. They got a bunch of guys who can guard. If Kauai can give them real minutes in the playoffs, they're going to be a really difficult team to play. Now, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm going to expect Kauai to be playing all the way through the playoffs or even through the rest of the regular season. We have been down this road enough times before, but we've talked a lot about Imi Adoka. We've talked a lot about Kenny Akins of her coach of the year. Ty Loo has done an incredible job with this

team. They play extraordinarily hard every night. They've been awesome. And, you know, they, and Jeff Van Gundy's been a great addition to that coach. Jeff and Gundy's been, he's done a great job, tell him in the defense. And, you know, look, when they traded, when they let Paul George go, they went out and signed Derek Jones and got Chris Dunn and got a bunch of guys who can guard. And now they're deep and they play hard every night. And they're really, really tough to score. And that's been a formula. Look at by when Norpew have. in the career year and the Harden Zubotch Pick and Roll that had them afloat until Kauai got back. And, you know, like you said, Brian, now they're in the top six in the West.

And regardless of Kauai status, if they feel like a team that's going to be in the top six going forward. Here's their upcoming schedule. Just definitely, I mean, not that, you know, we're going to freak out about where they are in January, February here. So they got two more games on this road trip, which, by the way, I talked to somebody from the Clippers earlier this year and they were saying that their schedule didn't really change. that much when they got their own building, other than they got rid of the Sunday afternoon

games or the Saturday and Sunday afternoon games, which they hated. Like, their arena is not being used for the Grammys, but for some reason, they're on the Grammy trip. Like, they're on this big trip the same time the Lakers are. But okay, anyway, the last two games they have on this road trip, Hornets and Raptors. Raptors have been playing a little bit better, but still. And by the way, do you see La Mello Ball re-injured his ankle the other day when he fell on, I can't remember whose ankle. He turned his ankle. It was backpedaling and celebrating a three. Yeah.

He is out at least a week. So he will not be playing in that game. Anyway, so Clippers, I'm sorry, Hornets, Raptors, and they come home next week to play the Lakers at home where that game could matter in the standings. Oh, good. Like, dude.

And they will matter. And they are, they've been really good in the Intuit Dome. They had a rough, they said, well, I think they started one and four, and I think they're like 14 and 4 cents, 13 and 4 cents. They've been really good at home. Listen, I think we got to look at the opponent free throw shooting, and then we've got to look at those third quarter numbers because they play that really scary choppy water video coming

out of halftime. What does it say? I hope to someday be allowed to go to L.A. again to see the toilet. No, no. Just stay on that Atlantic coast, buddy. That's right. We don't want you here. Yeah.

You got to be California cool. I know. Anyway, but that begins, that Laker game begins the four, begins a four game homestand where they've got a jazz game and a Grizzlies game. So keep an eye on that way. Anyway. Don't keep an eye on the jazz game. I just saw a jazz game. Don't keep an eye on that. Your eyes will ache. Yeah. So, and Kauai. You know, Kawhi is, uh, I've been, I don't know, surprised is the right word. He's looked very good. He's not, you know, the first couple games, he was chipping. off from Russ, but like he looks like Kauai Leonard. And he looked really good last year, which is why they gave him the contract extension. Yeah.

But it's like I'm going to take the, the Bontemps position with Embed. Yeah. How can I possibly say that that's going to last? I mean, and it's been a long time since he's been able to get through the playoffs healthy, even, you know, it's been a long time since it's been able to get to the first round healthy. Yeah. Okay, you're staying in San Francisco. Who's our next game against?

They got the old, the sons coming through here. Sons had a tough loss to the Timberwolves. The feel-good sons coming through. The Timberwolves beat the sons in Phoenix on Wednesday. And that's obviously a rematch of last year's playoffs. And, you know, Aunt and Durant have that sort of love, love, love, hate, you know, sort of thing where it's all love, but they chirp at each other because they have one. little brother.

Exactly. But little brother packs a punch. Right. You know, and like you look at that game, that's a playing game right now. Like that is just not acceptable for those two teams. But I'll talk about the Warriors. Well, it might be a playing game because the sons, as we speak, would have to win the 9-10 to get to see. You are correct, sir.

You know. But, you know, yes. So Steve Kerr was, you know, it was obviously a huge win, one of their biggest wins of the season for the Warriors. It was also a game where Kavana Luni and Gary Payton the second had like great shooting performances. You're not going to see that every game. Wiggins had a great game.

And Kerr said after the game that, you know, this is a reminder that when they started the season 12 and 3 or whatever did, that wasn't a fluke. I don't think they're this 12 and 3 team, nor do I think they were the team that just went three and nine or whatever. Yeah. I don't think that's quite right, but whatever they went.

But they're a playing team. You know, they were a playing team last year. No, no. They're an 11th place team as we speak. Right. That's what I'm saying. Like, you know, okay, maybe they're a little bit better than this, but they're a playing team.

And so what I would say is interesting is a couple of weeks ago, you know, Steph made that that proclamation. It was so fascinating. Or he said, you know, we can't do anything desperate, et cetera. And it seemed like they were on the same page with the organization. I got to tell you, over the last few days, I'm hearing chatter. I mean, there's been some reports, but even beyond what's been reported. I'm hearing chatter about the Warriors waiting back into that trade market again.

Well, and you get into the kind of the nuanced discussion or semantical discussion of being active versus being desperate, right? Being aggressive versus desperation. But, you know, they've been able to put some wins together despite the fact that Dremont's been out, despite the fact that Jonathan Kaming has been out. Those are what? probably they're two of their top four guys, maybe their second and third best players at this point. So, but yeah, just because they make a deal doesn't mean it's a desperate deal, but we'll, you know, we'll see what they put together here. Look, the Warriors are in a similar position, even though they're not seen that way, to the Hawks, right? We just talked about the Hawks before.

I don't really see a world where Gold State is doing a deal. that takes it out of opportunities to do things this summer and beyond in the trade market. However, I think we have seen going back to when Mike Dunleavy traded for Dennis Schrooter on December 15th to make sure he could be traded again by the deadline. The Warriors are interested in being as competitive as they can while they have Seth Curry there. And if they can find ways to do that without sacrificing future assets, to take them out of other things, then I'm sure they're going to be aggressive in trying to do it. Like, they're not, you know, I think they feel an obligation to try to be as competitive as they can.

And Steph is still awesome. And, you know, if they get in a playoff series, they're going to think they've got a shot if they've got him on the court and playing. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see over the next week what shakes out because there's just, I mean, I think we still all agree. There's not a ton of stuff going on out there. and if Golden Sake can add a piece, then, you know, there are only a couple games out of six. For as up and down as their season has been, they have another hot street for three weeks. They can be right back in the top six again. So that's the life in the Western Conference these days.

Well, and for whatever reason, the Warriors do tend to give the Thunder some trouble, as do the Dallas Mavericks. I believe five of the Thunder's nine losses are to the Warriors and Mavericks, who are both potential. first round playoff matchups. Now, again, I'm not telling you that I think the Dunner are getting knocked out in the first round or anything. I'm just saying the two teams that have had the most success for them are right in the playing next right now. Well, listen, Jaylon Williams, as you said,

had 26 points last night. I wrote a column about who should be on the All-Star team this year. He was the first front-core player on it. He's had a great year. But he's a guy that, you know, has had up and down moments as the, you know, the other guy to create shots. He was minus 18 and 34 minutes last night. Obviously, a lot of that's coming when he's out there without Shea.

And last night in this game, the Thunder are 9 for 39 from 3. And it's just one game, but they're 9 for 39 from 3. And Isaiah Joe, Jalen Williams, and Shea goes Alexander are 9 for 22. I think McMahon can do that math, as can I. The rest of the team, 0 for 17 from 3. We saw that play out time and again last year in that series against Dallas when from the, you know, shot percentage standpoint or, you know, expected make standpoint, the Thunder got better looks in that series, but the Mavs made way more shots. And for as awesome as Shay is, saying, hey, we're going to let Shay cook and we're going to sort of dare these other guys to beat us. I'll be it with Chet and some other guys out.

Caruso didn't play or barely play. He sprained his ankle. Yeah. That is a formula that teams are going to try to employ against these guys down the road. And Jay Williams is going to have to be really good and they're going to have to hit shots. And this was an example of a game where they didn't hit shots. And despite Shea having 52, they weren't able to get a win. Well, and Jayne Williams, Mark Dagonal kind of acknowledged that the way Shea was cooking,

Shea outscored the Warriors by himself in the first quarter, just like he did the Cavaliers. He's the only player in the league to outscore the opposing. Don't you think, by the way, I'm sorry to cut you up, don't you think that there's a possibility of like a 70 plus point game for Shea? It's funny. He had never had 50 until last week. I know, I know, but like the way this game is structured. Well, but the thing I was about to say is they acknowledge that you can kind of get caught up and watching Shea.

Like the way he was going on me, I mean, there was some just breathtaking like splits of double teams and finishes and shots. and stuff in that first quarter especially. And you know, and you see this, like I've seen this with the Mavericks. Luca is a guy like, you know, he'll have a 20 point first quarter every once in a while when he's cooking. And then it's like you get caught up and like just letting him do his thing and watching. And, you know, suddenly the other guys aren't in a rhythm. I think there's a little bit of that last night. And then honestly, just Jaylon Williams did not have a good performance.

I talked to him for a little while after shoot around. And he's an interesting player because he's 23. By the time this comes out, we'll know if he was an all-star not. But certainly the Thunderer feel very strongly. He should be an all-star. But he's very much still in the early developmental stages, especially as that number two offensive option. And his efficiency has dipped this year.

His numbers are up across the board except for efficiency. And a big part of that is because they've challenged him to, hey, you've got to be more aggressive, to be relentlessly aggressive on both ends all the time. And part of that is, you know, as he was telling me, attacking smaller gaps than he would have last year. You know, looking to get into scenes where last year would have just been him move for the ball, because they do need him or Chet, once Chet returns are both, to be that, you know, consistent star level, secondary score because obviously teams are going to, especially in the playoffs, like teams are going to scheme to try to get the ball out of Shea's hands as much as possible.

To go back to answer your original question, Brian, I don't see him score in 70 or something like that, although he could because A, he doesn't shoot a ton of threes, and B, he's sort of wide like Durant, where Durant obviously could score basically as many points as he wants in a game, but Che has never really been a guy to like try to get 60. the ability that when he gets going, his ability to score, he has the ability to score a lot of points without using a lot of energy. Oh, yeah. He could,

I think he's capable of doing it. But that's why I put him more in the Durant category. You're right. Who just never really is tried to do it. Durant has never been a ball hog. And my God, if he ever was a ball hog, it would, he could do anything. I mean, he has, I mean, I think he's easily to degrade his. score ever created.

And like he, if he wanted to, yeah, if he wanted to just score as much as he could every night, he basically could whenever he wanted. I mean, he won, what,

four straight scoring titles? And then he just decided to cry. Yeah, four out of five scoring titles. Yeah. And he, because he broke his foot that year, right?

That's why he didn't win it. He, right. Yeah. All right. Well, if the Warriors do get into the playoffs, that's a possible first round matchup, by the way.

Yeah. Better scout out. Get your hotel reservations now, McMahon. I know you're going to be, you love those Thunder. Oh, listen. I cover many, many teams. Oh, yeah. Thunder just happen to be the best team in the Western Conference. So certainly there will be plenty of thunder coverage to come from me. All right. McMahon is. Don't you go, don't, don't listen. I get enough stuff from my neighbors and doubt. He put me on like some for the Red River rivals here. Let me tell you what I get. I was sitting, I was eating breakfast at a restaurant in Paris. Oh, croissant and came up to me and said,

this is very common, McMahon. Said your much taller, any thought? Oh, go on. No one has ever said that. Oh, boy, I'm a big fan of the podcast. Boy, that Bontems. I get that a lot. All right.

Thank you for watching, Listen to the Hoop Collective. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to McMontemps. Bontems and McMahon. And we will be talking to you next week when we will be in the trade deadline. Adios amigos.