Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Detroit Basketball Is Back? Strong Rockets & Panic For Clippers + Change in Dallas?

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to talk the Pistons looking poised for another big leap forward this season, the Rockets winning games how good teams do, the Suns outperforming expectations, if it's time to panic about the Clippers, Jokic’s dominance, the drama in Dallas and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talked about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening. Joining us from Philadelphia from, I think is called Xfinity Mobile Arena now.

That is correct. And everyone calls it that. Yeah, where he just watched the Detroit Pistons come from behind and beat the Philadelphia 76ers and another quality win for the Pistons, Tim Bunteps. Hello, everybody. And joining us from Dallas, Texas. The Cowboys win today? Van McMahon.

Howdy, partners. They were on a buy. Rough fantasy week for me. Getting old chop, it looks like. Barron a sake of on Barclay Miracle on Monday night. But, you know, we're just going to keep on rolling right here. Well, the Mavericks got a win over the weekend. That qualifies as breaking news these days.

Barely. Barely got a win. But they got one. They got one. They needed it really bad, too. Okay. To the game that you were at tonight, Bontempts, this was a relatively classic performance by an NBA star player.

Cade Cunningham had a bit of a sluggish start. The 76ers were playing on the second night of a back-to-back, so that meant no Joelle Embed, amongst other players. But Cade was the best player on the court in the second half, which I watched, brought him home down the stretch. Two points on one for not shooting in the first half, and he had 24 points on 8, 4, 11 shooting in the second half. And a bunch of assists.

And one gigantic dunk at the end of the game. Yeah, he, Kelly Ubrey kind of lost track of him, and Andre Drummond went up with them, and he halfway up, he decided it was a bad idea. Well, I mean, first of all, it was a hell of a poster dunk. And second of all, you don't see dunks like that happen in a one possession game with under two minutes to go. That was the most impressive part.

Like he got a lane, went to the rim, and yammed it on drumming in a huge spot. Like it was one of the most important baskets of the whole game. But yeah, I mean, it was an incredible performance from Cade. Pistons are 8 and 2. It's the first time they've won at least eight games to start in their first 10.

It's in 20 years since the 0.506 season when they went 64 and 18. It was two years ago that Cade Cunningham and Jalen Duren were on this Pistons team that was 14 and 68 and lost 29 games in a row after starting 2 and 1 right at this time of the year. They didn't win a game from October 30th until December 30th, which is insane. And you watch them now and like it was a professional performance from Cade in the second half.

It was a professional performance from a young Pistons team to play pretty poorly in the first half, be down 13, not really be in the game. Tyrese Maxi continues to be great. look like the Sixers had a chance to steal this game, would know Joelle and B.E. playing the second night of a back-to-back. And then the Pistons, like a very good NBA team typically does, played great in the second half,

take over the game down the stretch led by their star player. And, you know, they look like a team that is not going anywhere from the top of the east this season. And I would contend, after watching Caden this game, I think Cade's the second best player in the east. I would only put Yonis ahead of them. You could argue for Donovan Mitchell. You can argue for Jalen Brunson.

You could argue for the guy who played against tonight, Tyrese Maxie. Obviously, Jason Tatum and Tyrese Albert went healthy or in the mix for that discussion too. But as a 6-8 guy who has the command of the game that he does, who, because he's so big, can help you at the defense event, too. It's just always in control, always smooth. I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't take anybody else other than Yonis over him. and the fact that you could put him in that kind of conversation, I think means that you put Detroit right there with Cleveland

and right there with the Knicks at the top of the east, maybe taking the place that we thought, say, Orlando was going to be in a month ago. McMahon, it's so typical of Bontem's that he's praising a player and can't do it without collateral damage. What's the collateral damage? Donovan Mitchell's stats are as follows. Donovan Mitchell's incredible.

Something against him, Mitch. 31 points per game, 53% shooting, 44% on three, five assists, 1.6 steals. Look, the guy he played against tonight, I don't know if Tyrese's numbers in front of me, but he's about averaging 34 a game and on good efficiency and has been awesome too. The Cavs will claim the highlight of the weekend. McMahon, did you see what happened to? Oh, no, poor Josh Giddy. It was a rough moment.

Yeah, DeAndre Hunter crossed him into limping off the floor before. They literally, the Bulls had to call time out because they thought there was a chance that Josh Kitty actually broke his ankle on Saturday night. And then after he said getting to the floor, DeAndre Hunter dunked it on Patrick Williams' head. It was a great play. It's a heck of a play. Yeah. See, we try to give the piss and some love.

and oh, Wendy's got to drag it over to the cab. He can't let anybody talk about Detroit. He just bat. Well, I'm prepared to keep talking about them, but he just batted Mitchell aside. I mean, again, I'll take- In that conversation. But he's in the conversation, for sure. The point, I actually, as much as I hate to do it,

I have to agree with Bond him. Right now, the only guy in the East who's clearly making a bigger impact on a night-to-night basis than Cade Cunningham, is yonest. We can, you know, we can debate some other people, but, you know, Bond Tempty said incredible performance by K, at 26 points, 11 assists. Also, kind of just another night at the office. That's what he's doing on a regular basis. And Jalen Dern, another monster double double in this game, 21 and 16. There's a very short list of Biggs who have the combination of athleticism and power that Jalen Dern has.

Let me also just remind you something. Jalen Dern doesn't turn 22 until later this month. He's never going to be the kind of, you know, he's not going to be Joker or Embed where you run the offense through him. But we are watching Jalen Duren morph into a star, you know, a complimentary type of star, but a perfect fit. next to Cade Cunningham. And Cade lifts everything that he does well,

and he enhances all of Cade's game offensively. Those two as a duo are on the short list of the best duos in the East as well. Jayland during this season, what did he have tonight, Bontem's 21 and 16. And obviously there's no Embed in Philly's kind of a small team. But watching him in this game, I was reminded of Stephen Adams in that, Duren is just... Adams doesn't score like that. No, but what I mean is like when you watch the Pistons play, A, Duren just hoover's up rebounds,

and B, guys just bounce off him. Yes. Like, he's just an absolute cinder block of a guy on the low block. And he just, he can't, he gets, he doesn't get moved by almost anybody. And it, it's incredible. Like, his physical presence inside, it reminded me of, watch it Stephen Adams, who is about as strong a dude as we've seen in the league in a generation probably. Duren has a 24.18 rebound game this year, a 21.13 rebound game, a 33.10

10 rebound game, a 22.22 rebound game, a 30.11 rebound game, and then tonight, 21 and 16. He's averaging 19 and 12, and the 19 is a big boost up. And again, it's not just all off of, a lot of it's off of just pick and roll finishes and putbacks, but he's got a nice little touch around the basket too. like this guy he bet on himself i don't know what the offer was that was on the table in extension season he bet on himself and i think it was a pretty good bet he was five of seven at the line tonight uh bond temps which i think was second on the team after kade he's averaging six free throws uh a game so far that's twice as many he's ever averaged and he's shooting 86 percent on him yeah that's something he's added to his game too and and they and the The Pistons really, like they, I was talking to Dern about it after the game,

like they have the identity of the classic Pistons teams, right? They're not an awesome offensive team. They do miss Malik Beasley shooting. You know, Duncan Robinson has been fine for them. But Malik Beasley had a historic three-point shooting season last year. I think they ranked 16th on offense after today's game. But the third in defense, Dern immediately talked about the physicality they play with and the toughness and the grit they play with, which as we know, both those great

Pistons teams from the last generation from the 2000s, 20 years ago. And obviously the Isaiah Thomas Bad Boys Pistons, those are what those teams were built on. Very good depth across the roster and big physical, we're going to mall you play. And they're fun to watch. And like you just every time the game, as the game got down towards the end tonight, Cade never got sped up. He got to his spot every time. Got one good look after another.

And, I mean, it was great to watch him in Mexico back and forth. Maxx has had an incredible season. But that size at 6-8, to be able to handle the ball the way he does and do the things that he does, that's just such a rare weapon. And it makes him awfully dangerous. And it's made the pistons awfully dangerous a lot faster than I certainly thought they were going to be. And a big 6-8. Like he's not, you know, like the mellow ball is 6-8, the mellow ball's skin.

He's whatever. 6-7-6-7. Cade's about three lamello balls of, oh. Right. My point is he's like Luca in the sense of the great handle, can score all over the floor. You know, he's not the passer that Luke is, but a very, very good passer. And just, like, they can physically bully almost any guard defender. So, yeah, in the last play of the game, the Pistons were up by three. and the 76ers ran a relatively elaborate final play.

Not maybe elaborate by NBA play standards, but certainly elaborate by last shot standards. They move the ball from side to side with the intent to get Maxi with the ball in the move. The Pistons defended it perfectly and put it through a double team at Maxi. He got a reasonably good shot off, but it was only off of a scramble. They played excellent defense on the last possession. to secure the win as well. So, yeah, they're doing really well.

And also, Bontem's four and one on the road. Yeah. You know, this hasn't like been an unbalanced schedule in their favor. No, and if you look at where they're at, like, you know, we've talked about the ups and downs the Knicks have had and some of the injury issues the Knicks have had. We've talked about Cavs Corner and the injuries that Cavs Corner is dealing with. Obviously, Darius Garland is back.

That's been good to see. But they've needed some Hercules' performance. is from Dott of New Mitchell to escape with some wins early. Like, is there a world? Can we see a world where Detroit is the top seed in east? Is that a real thing? Like, it kind of feels like it could be a real thing right now. Not saying they're going to win the east necessarily.

I mean, like, you know, like, I mean, obviously they're off to a great start. You know, the Knicks, the Knicks, I know they beat the Nets on Sunday. I'm not going to, you know, celebrate that. I will say that the Knicks put up 134 on Brooklyn and the Knicks have won four in a row. And these are their last five games in scoring. 125, 128, 119, 137, 134. Yeah. So the Knicks are powering up.

A lot of injury questions, though. They've played an unbalanced schedule. The Knicks are 6 and 0 at home and 0 and 3 on the road. So. To me it's just more about the Doug Moe standings, the pits are in good shape. To me it's just more about the way the teams are set up. And look, I think there's a lot of work for Detroit still to do. I mentioned earlier.

They're still in the middle of the pack and offense. I know you guys talked about it on the pod on Friday with Vinian Slater. I think they are extremely interesting, maybe the most interesting team in the league, from a trade acquisition standpoint between now and the deadline. Like, do they potentially go get another guy to get buckets next to Kade to go with Duren, to go with the Sart Thompson, who haven't even talked about with Ron Holland, their fifth pick last year, who was playing real minutes for them to try to give them some more of a boost at that end. But you look at all the injuries the Cavs have.

You've got Carl Towns dealing with this quad thing. Josh Hart's dealing with this finger thing. Mitchell Roberts' status is always up in the air. There's just a lot of questions with those teams. And the Pistons are young. and got pretty good track records of health, and they've got a clear identity that they're leaned fully into. It's just very interesting.

You know, we and a lot of other people thought that Atlanta and Orlando made leaps this offseason, and we thought that they were going to be top half of the East playoff picture. I think what we can say is right now, as we speak, the Pistons are miles ahead of those two teams, miles ahead of those two teams. Well, in the leap, those teams, like Orlando goes against Desmond Bain, right? Obviously, that is not worked. They had a very poor loss today to Boston. Atlanta has had a lot of injuries, and, you know, they're figuring stuff out.

But the leap the pistons have made has been internal, right? Dern has taken a massive leap. Thompson's taken a leap. And Cade has built on. They had a bunch of cap spaces somewhere that they didn't. I guess they used it on Duncan Robinson. They didn't really... But not really.

They basically just swapped out the money they were going to spend on Malik Beasley on him. I mean, they bet on their young guys taking on bigger roles and taking steps forward. And that's, you know, those guys have all done that. And it's, you know, that's what makes their start. It's only 10 games. There's a lot of work to do. You know, I thought they had a pretty mature response to it after the game as a group. But if you're a Pistons fan, it's been a long time.

since you could be this excited. But I think there's a lot to be excited about in Detroit. I have yet to visit. What year did Little Seasons Arena open? I haven't either, but I hear that the freaking pregame media spread is phenomenal. The food is great. I went to the very first,

I went to the very first game there. I want to say it was the day after the Gordon Hayward injury. Because I think I drove. I think I drove from Cleveland to Detroit for that game. The next night because I think that's right. Jackson will probably correct the record on that. But I bet to the very first game at Little Caesars, and I have been back since.

It opened in 2017. Yeah, it was the day after that game. That is the day it was. So it's been eight years, and I just haven't. It might be time. Might be time. The Pistons haven't done anything to bring us in. Well, hold on.

They did last year. They made a historic. Okay, but they made a historic leap last year. They had a nice, look, the Pistons were a great story last year, but at no point where they seen as a team that was a real threat to do anything. We're at this season, this season, it's a much, much different story from that standpoint. And I'm not, I don't want to sit here and tell you I'm predicting a Pistons championship in the next couple of years. So when I compare them to the Thunder, just what I'm saying is they're doing it with internal development.

They've got a superstar. They're building around. And they don't have a Jaylen Williams caliber player, but they've got this young, you know, core of three guys. And I'm talking about Cade Cunningham, 24 years old now. Jalen Dern has not turned 22 yet. And Assar Thompson at 22, each of those guys is getting better. and better and better. Now, we'll see what they do.

I think they've got to get another, not just score, but score, creator, you know, to go with Cade. But what the Thunder did was they made a major leap to respectability, made another double-figure leap. It's called finishing their breakfast.

Yeah, as their breakfast made another double-figure leap. What meal, What meal are the Pistons on? Where are they? I mean, if you're going on the Presti scale, they're eating breakfast still, for sure. Okay. Okay. What about in the Little Sousers pregame media spread?

Yeah, exactly. But my point is the Thunder made three straight double figure leaps. Yep. I'm not saying you'll speed out for the Pistons, but they made this massive leap last year. A double figure win leaps, not out of the realm of possibility this year, you know, to get them to, at least contending in the east. I think they're on that kind of a path right now. And it is with very only drafted players. And by the way, it's only, again, only 10 games into the season,

but there's only one team ahead of them in either conference in the standings. Now it would be the 10-1 Oklahoma City Thun. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right. Speaking of young teams with the Thompson twin, the Houston Rockets had a pretty impressive win on Sunday in Milwaukee. they were down double digits in this game and Janus was powering up. Janus is just attacking the rim with absolute unstoppable force.

He's averaging five dunks a game so far. He had 37 in this game. But, you know, they're just cruising along to a Sunday afternoon. And the Rockets coming off of a loss to San Antonio on Friday night, a game that put San Antonio ahead of that. in the standings and was a was a key win for san antonio san antonio was still trying to prove that it's that it's that it belongs up and up in that echelon and uh daren fox started played his first game on saturday night didn't play on friday against the rockets and they didn't have dylan

harper in that game thofon castle was awesome victor was himself they win that game and yudoka as he does called out his team afterwards let him up yeah um which He does like, you know, with a low-controlled way that is somehow more scary than if he would yell. And then they went up to Milwaukee and we're getting, we're down by 10 points. And then they dropped 72 in the second half of this game. And down the stretch just wrestled the bucks to the floor. Well, and totally impressive. And also did it with skill.

You know, KD, by his standards, went through a little mini. slump there. A couple games that won and then, you know, turn it over a ton of times against Spurs. You know, he's back to me and Katie tonight or this afternoon. 31 points on 15 field goal attempts, only three turnovers. But dude, once again, the biggest buckets of the game down the stretch were Alpi Shingoon.

And, you know, one, Katie gets, gets, they send a second defender at him out by half court. Boom, okay, fine. He'll give the ball to Alpi. in the middle of Florida to go make something happen. Alpi goes in there, bumps Janus and finishes right over him. And then the second one, Janus was frustrated, I believe, because he kept brick and free throws in crunch time. Yes, they couldn't make a basket near the end of this game,

and Janus was a part of the reason why. Yeah, and then he tries to get up in Shungoon stuff when Shungoon's got the ball, I don't know, 30, 35 feet from the hoop, and he's trying to just, you know, take his cookies. shingoon blows by him and goes in for you know kind of the dagger move too yeah well so earlier in like in the third quarter when uh when milwaukee was trying to hold off um yonis went his shangoon like two or three times in a row like got several fouls on him at one point knocked him over got a three point play and like mean mugged into the camera and they had to take shingoon out of the game i think because

of foul trouble and yannis was you know doing his flexing and frankly rightly so because he was owning it But when it mattered, Shengun made the play. Shengun and Durant made the plays to win the game. It was a win that looked like a team that was, you know, I got to cover a lot of great LeBron teams. And they would have a lot of games like this, where they would be a big game on the schedule. They would come in.

The other team would hit them with a couple of, you know, stunning blows. when it mattered, the better team took care of business. Well, the Rockets haven't been that type of team for like six years. Like they look today in this game like a team that was totally under control and was never worried about it even when the other team was, you know, flexing on their home court. And I'm going to say something else.

There's a lot of people, a lot of Rockets in this game that played well. Amen played well. It had some big plays, of course. Their offenses being driven by him. Stephen Adams was really good. Tari Yason was really good. I like where you're going with this, I think. Mr. Reed Shepard.

I don't know if you guys have noticed. Reed Shepard came into this game shooting 45% on threes. And then he went, I think, four out of six. I don't have the updated numbers. By the way, in this game, 29 minutes off the bench, 16.6 for 10 shooting, 4 for 6 from 3, 2 assists. four steals and a block. And again, Reed Shepard, the reason he was such a revolutionary analytical model player

coming out of Kentucky was because he was getting a ton of defensive stats and was making defensive plays. Now, he's not Alex Caruso on defense, but he has good hands. He's smart. He knows how to play. And if we go back to the opener, we talked about it. It was basically his first real NBA game outside of cameos. and he's playing in this crazy inferno in OKC,

and he looked like a guy playing in his first game. But he had some huge shots in the second half of this game to help the Rockets make this comeback. And I'm glad he brought him up because I was going to bring him up when we talked about this game, because it has been good to see him get into the flow and start making some plays. And, you know, it's a reminder that it's a very long season,

and this is a guy who's getting his first real chances to play, and he's making some improvements. and doing some stuff. And like, look, we talked on the pot about the abilities of Men Thompson going into the season and the potential for him to be most approved player and the leaps he could make. But the leap shangoon has made has been massive. And he has been awesome to watch. And going back and forth with Yonis today was the latest example of it.

Like today, sometimes Shengun is going to get taken care of on the defensive end. Sometimes he's not going to be great. Sometimes Reed Shepard, it's going to look. like a traffic cone on the defensive end because you put him in space, his quickness is, you know, can be taking advantage of. But he's also going to take your cookies. He's also going to, you know, hit the three. And so like, if you're not relying on him to be a transformational player, I know he was the number three pick, but if you're relying on him to be a high level role player, you might feel okay about him. And that's what's been happening. Well, here's the thing.

The Rockets firmly believe Reed Shepard has star potential on the offensive. end. Even when early, like, he didn't shoot well against, okay, see, they're not worried about his shooting. He's going to knock down shots. They are, there are some concerns about his defense, but you're seeing him play a lot of zone he's on the floor. And look, if he, if he's shooting the ball like this, making plays like this offensively,

then it more than justifies having a scheme to protect him defensively, right? You're not going to run the switch everything stuff a lot with Reed Show. Shepherd, probably not going to happen. Because he's just not good enough as an on-ball defender right now. Maybe he progresses to the point where he can. If you're shooting it like this, you can mix it up his own. You can do things to protect him. And it makes plenty of sense.

And he's in a role where he can come off the bench and be that type of kind of instant offense bucket getter. But man, Shungoon has made a big leap, a big leap. And all you need to know is KD. is more than happy to let Shingoon get the rock. If he's got the matchup or if they want to throw two bodies at KD, more than happy to give Shingun the rock down the stretch. And now, again, against the Mavericks, Katie went to the corner.

Shingun had Gafford up high and Basie was like, Cook. And he did. Well, and it's worth pointing out that Katie had 31 and 7 on 11 for 15 shooting in this game. And it's just a reminder that last season, Jalen Green would have been taking those shots. And Jalen Green's why they lost the Warriors series. Like, let's just call it like it is.

He was bad in that series. They shot under 30% in the series. He had one big time performance and then. Other than that, he was awful. He had a really bad series, which is okay. Like plenty of guys have had a bad series. He's a young player. We'll see what happens in the future.

But they replace him with Kevin Duran. And when you have Kevin Duran as the guy with Shingoon, like down the stretch of this game, it was Kevin Durant making shots and Shengun making shots. And like, that's a formula that is going to lead the Rockets to a lot of doubles. The way, Jackson gives us this stat going back to Janus real quick. He's a first player with 300 points and 100 rebounds in his first nine games since L. Cinder in 70-71. Wow.

He's a pretty good player. He's a pretty good player. Yeah, yeah, he is. You mentioned Jalen Green a second ago. Not the greatest weekend for Jalen Green. He missed the first eight games of the season for the Sons and comes back and looked like he pretty significantly re-injured his hamstring on Saturday night. So while that was not good,

after having a great game in his first game, had 29 points and I think 23 minutes in it was plus 30. And their win over their first two wins over the Clippers. They didn't do it. They didn't, I didn't see an update on Sunday. I assume they'll update him on Sunday, and I'm not anticipating a good update there. However, I guarantee you this, it's multiple weeks.

I mean, when you come back after missing the first eight games and have to get helped off the floor. Yeah, it looked, and he was in a lot of discomfort. He couldn't move the leg. Okay, having said that, though, the Sons have won four out of five, and their next three games are against the pelicans, the Mavericks, and the Pacers. It ain't exactly murderers row. And they just took a home and home with the Clippers

who are having some issues. And I'd just like to point out, so Devin Booker, he's put together some really impressive games. He had 21, 10, and 9. Didn't have the greatest shooting night. but, you know, they are better than we thought this point. They're five and five.

I'm not sitting here saying let's rewrite the predictions, but let's acknowledge that they've won four out of five. Yeah, I mean, so far they have beaten the Jazz, the Kings, the Spurs, great win over the Spurs, and then his Clipper team twice. And to me, the bigger question is out of these games. Like Phoenix played well, they've had a nice start. they're probably like you said they really should be eight and five like if they're eight and five in a couple of days then okay like maybe they could surprise people and book has been awesome it's been good to see him back to playing like an all the a player again when he wasn't at that level really last year um the question to me is like are the clippers in real trouble like yes they look they look extraordinarily old and here's the thing if you're going to be old if you're going to be old if you're going to be old and slow, you better not be sloppy.

They rank near the top of the league in turnovers committed. They give up more points off of turnovers than anybody. I mean, when they turn it over. A transition defense is still a problem despite the shirts. Exactly. When they turn it over, it's a gift because they can't get back. They are creaky and now Kauai is out for, you know. Well, that's the thing.

So, Ty Lou, it's an ankle. sprain and he was asked by one of the media members, is it a high ankle sprain? And he goes, it's an ankle sprain. I don't like high ankle sprains on anybody, much less Kauai Leonard. And I don't like non-timelines. So that's a thing. On Bradley Beal, Bradley Beal has been rough. Chris Paul has been awful. I mean, I thought coming into the season, I was high on them because I thought they had 11, 12 guys who could play. And they probably always have eight or not of them available, but they also were relying on a lot of old guys.

Brooke Lopez, Chris Paul, Nick Batum, Beals obviously played a lot of minutes, Hardin and Kauai. Like, it's a very old team, and there was at least a chance

that they would start to become a pumpkin overnight. And it's still early. We'll see small sample size theater and all that, but they look like, a team that's pretty old. Let me say two things about the clippers. Number one, last year they were the number three defensive team in the league.

That team, just about everybody they put on the floor defended. They defended the team. They defended no matter who was healthy. Even James Hardin, despite his limitations, at times, you could tell he was trying to give it the college try on defense.

They were successful because they defended. So far, small sample size, etc. They're 27th. three to 27th is no good. I ain't going to get it done. Now I'm going to give you stats. Name this player. O'oh.

Okay. 23.3 points. James Hard. 64% on threes on six a game. Oh, I know who this is. 94% at the line on a career high seven a game. That would be one Norman Powell. That is Norman Powell.

Yeah. And it's not that John Collins is playing poorly. He's doing okay. He's not scoring, but again, that's not really his role. Except Bradley Beale's playing poorly because Beale wasn't part of the trade, but the trades made with the assumption that the trade was the trade was, it wasn't an assumption. The trade was John Collins and Bradley Beale for Norm Powell.

Now, he wasn't technically in the trade, but they made the trade because they were getting Bradley Beal. They thought they could get 80, 90 percent of. Norman Powell's production from Beal and then get Collins is a really nice piece off the bench. Collins has been a really nice piece off the bench. Beal ain't holding freaking Powell's jock with a wheelbarrow right now. Beal is averaging, he has played six games. He is averaging eight points on 37% shooting. He's shooting 37% on threes as well, eight points.

Clippers are giving up the leagues almost 24 points a game off turnovers, most in League. Assuming that I can make it to Los Angeles on Monday, I'm going to go see the Clippers play Monday and Wednesday. Monday they play the Hawks. Wednesday they play the Nuggets. I saw them play the Thunder for a quarter. They look good.

Well, I, as you guys know, I was really excited about this team in the preseason. It was always I. I was high on them. I thought they were going to be good. You know, you had to pencil in some Kauai missed games. Sure. but the design of the team was that they were supposed to be a little bit more resilient, primarily because they can defend.

Well, and James Hardin has always been, whatever else you want to say about James Hardin, he's always been a regular season innings eater and wins machine. And he was last year, and like the expectation was, that was going to be the case again. And again, it's a long season. It's only nine games. There's plenty of time. But it is definitely concerning to see a team. with this many old players looking this old through the first three weeks.

And by the way, Zubots has not been bad at all, but can we revisit your all of the April? Let's not. Yeah, let's not. I, you know, this is exactly what. Window decided to make a prediction and. You know, it had been a long, bearing off season. And, you know, I saw an exhibition game that excited me for the first time.

You were really fired up. That was such an anti-Bryon position. to be over the moon about an exhibition game and making predictions on top of it. I was so happy about that game. By the way, the nuggets that was against the nuggets, the nuggets looked great, which I didn't make any outrageous predictions about the nuggets, but I felt really good about what the nuggets looked like too. By the way, can we put a, can we, can we just talk real quick about something?

I want to read some Cam Thomas stats. Can I read some Cam, or not Cam Thomas. I'm sorry. Cam Thomas out for a week. Not that, not that. Another, another, another cam we used to play in his team. Cam Johnson. Cam Johnson stats.

No, they're not good. Cam Johnson, Cam Johnson threw nine games this season is averaging eight points per game. He is shooting 37% from the field. He is shooting 23% from three. Again, I expect Cam Johnson to start making some shots, but I think it's pretty concerning that we're this far into the season and he has been this much. of a non-factor for Denver, given the outlay they paid to get him. I would be much, much more concerned if the Nuggets weren't seven and two with the second best point differential.

Can I read some Aaron Gordon, the Gordon staff? Yes, I mean, that's that's, I mean, Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray have been incredible and they've been off to a great start. So it's sort of been, it's sort of flown under the radar, but it has been a rough start for him. Now, again, if those guys are all healthy and playing great, it. might not matter at all. But it's just been interesting to me.

I'll tell you what. Tim Hardaway Jr. has been one album of that minimum pickup. Yeah. He's making three. So Yokic is taking five fewer shots per game. And he loves it. Shooting 64% from the field.

He shot 63% a couple years ago, one of the MVP years. So he has touched this before. But last year, you know, there were times when he, you know, he struggled last He only shot 57%. But he's leading the league and rebounds and assists. He's almost got a four, he's almost got a four assist to turnover ratio. 11.9 assists per game to 3.1 turnovers again. 3.8 assist to turnover.

Crazy. This is how Joker wants to play. He never, he doesn't want to have to feel like, dude, I got to get, I got to get 30 points a chance. He wants to take 14, 15 shots a game and have a dozen assists. He's averaging 11.9 assists per game. That is true. I at 10.2.

But this is, you know, we always talk about, hey, teams would prefer to make Joker a one-dimensional score because if he's able to just spread it all around, then everybody's eating with, I guess, the exception of Cam Johnson right now. But right now, Joker is a super efficient 25 point per game, 24, 25, whatever it is, and getting 12 assists and his minutes, I think his minutes are actually down from last year. You know, part of that's only at 34. So I'm pretty sure he was up at like 37 last year. Yeah, he was at almost.

Yeah, in a couple years. He was, yeah, the down was three a game. This is exactly the way that Joker wants to play. It gives him a chance to stay fresh all season, be fresh, come playoff time. And again, he doesn't want to take 22, 23 shots in the game. McMahon, guess the player. I'm going to read another stats. Guess the player.

Okay. Okay, what do we got? More Hoop Collective podcast after this. 7.6 points a game. 31% are actually 26% on threes on six a game. Come on, man. This is Clay Thompson. Damn, you're hot.

Yeah, no. He's cold and you're hot. Brother. And he was sick in Washington, one game after being scored us in Memphis, which was his second game coming off the bench. The decision to bring Clay off the bench has gotten buried by all the feces that's flying around the Mavericks right now. But, dude, I'm just telling you, man, that was a big, big thing. And, you know, he said the right things afterwards.

I wasn't at that game, but the Dallas Morning News talked to him. You know, he said all the right things, but we all know. everybody who knows Clay knows how much pride he has. And man, coming off the bench for Golden State, he was miserable. And he was pissed. Now, he really, and the Mavericks recruited him to Dallas, which, by the way, that contract is owed about 34 mil this year or next year. It's looking rough.

But they recruited him to Dallas. You know, they couldn't offer him as much as the Lakers did. did with the promise that he would be coming off the bench. In his defense, one of the major reasons. Promise he'd be starting. I'm sorry, my bad. Promise that, yeah, promise that he'd be starting. Promise that he'd have a starting job.

And he started the first 79 games he played for the Mavericks. 81, if you want to include the playing games. So it was like, I knew they were thinking about it, but this was a big decision for J.K. to make because, frankly, you risk just flat out. losing clay mentally. It's going to be a challenge for him to stay in the mentally. But he was so bad. They had to make this move. Now, Daniel Russell serves. He was minus 18 in a win over the Washington Wizards. He's had one good shooting game for the Mavericks. But just to get a point guard on the floor to take that

burden off of Cooper Flats. After what I saw in that game against New Orleans, I kind of support it. No, you had to take, they had to take the burden off of Cooper Flagg's shoulders in terms of being the primary facilitator. Clay just, the production was so bad. And honestly, his best game this season was his first game off the bench. But that was a big, big deal. But man, there's just, like, dude, there's a whole lot of things that ain't good with the Mavericks. And, hey, at this point, I believe it is a matter of when, not. if Nico Harrison will be fired.

And there is a very, very strong likelihood that will be mid-season. Maybe they can get things turned around. Maybe his seat can go from sizzling to, you know, a more normal temperature. But, you know, I always say like, dude, every time I think that they've hit rock bottom, they find a, you know, they find a way to drill deeper. They almost lost to Washington they won. That would have been drilling, that would have been drilling all the way down to Hades.

And that's about how hot Nico's seat is right now. Well, their two best players are out. Okay. Breaking news, they knew Kyrie's going to miss the first half the season or so. And your big move this summer was to go get DeAngel Russell replace them on a temporary basis. Also, why do they have such a void for playmaking and offense creation on this roster? I mean, come on now.

it's blown up in his face. It's blown up in Patrick Dumont's face. After that, Luca trade, Patrick Dumont, one of his infamous quotes, was in Nico we trust. I'm just telling you, the trust is disintegrated at this point. Anthony Davis wanted to play Saturday in Washington. He'd been gearing up to that. Practice Thursday.

Doubtful than sat Friday in, In Memphis, upgraded the questionable that, you know, that we all see that that's the normal track to bring in a guy back from injury. There was internal disagreement about whether that was a good idea. And there was a lot of opinions voiced in that. Ultimately, they decided to hold him out in Washington. We'll see if he plays Monday against the Bucks. He's questionable again. One of the opinions that was, I don't know if he's.

it was a veto, I don't know how heavily this opinion weighed in, but one of the opinions that was involved here was Patrick Dumont's. Patrick Dumont went from blind faith in Nico to now laying in on whether a star can come back from injury. That's a pretty significant. Well, it's because last year he tried to play through the injury when he came back, when he, when he played to play his first game, and it was borderline and he made it worse. I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm not saying I don't know about the owner being involved. I'm just saying, like, I might ask some questions too. Right.

And so let me ask you this. Why do you think Anthony Davis rushed back last year to play in that home game? Rockets. Okay. Why would he rush back right now? Well. Pretty bad idea. I see what you're going.

Why would he do that? So especially do, we're talking about a calf strain. You don't. Definitely not. With those things. And my understanding is that there were people with the Mavericks medical staff that were saying, we cannot rush this guy back. That Dumont certainly agreed with that.

And that ultimately, I was told by the end, everybody was on the same page. You know, okay. Ultimately, they decided to hold off at least another couple of days. But again, the fact that Patrick Dumont is involved in that sort of decision making is a major, major development. Let me ask you this. I'm asking a lot of questions. No, I'm just asking. Since they went to the finals, which personnel moves that the Mavericks have made have worked. God, what feels longer ago? I'm asking. No, hold on. I'm going to ask a question because you said that. What feels

longer ago? The Mavs making the finals are the Pistons, who's a 29 in a row? I'm not sure which feels farther away right now. Seriously. But like, you know, we just mentioned like, Super flag with the number one pick. I would say the plan of getting Cooper flag in the lottery worked out great. I'd say that's good. I would say, I would say Brandon Williams, nice pickup. Okay. I would say, trying to think of what are my other options since the finals?

Clay Thompson. That didn't, I don't like that. The Luca trade. Well, I mean, sure. the four straight history to league. I don't like that. Trading Quentin Grimes for Kayla Martin. Caleb Martin. I don't like that. I don't like that.

You still went through the trade. And then you couldn't, as your team's falling apart, sign guys even do a 10-day because you got so bumped up to the apron. I don't like that move. I guess the Naji Marshall one's been okay. That's a good move. I like Naji Marshall. That's good. My point is there's been some pretty epic disasters here. By the way, Caleb Martin's averaging. But they lost Derek Jones when they got Najee Marcia.

I like that Naji Marshall deal. I thought that was... Okay. I think that's a good move. I'll give them that. There's been some massive... Bradd Williams and Naji Marshall. Good.

Luca Donchich, bad. And some other ones, yes. And some other ones. Now, who's going to run the Mavericks trade deadline? Well, listen, we got three months until the trade deadline. Let's not start doing that. What is the Mavericks trade assets? here's here's one Anthony Davis they should trade Anthony Davis tomorrow well and and listen

what are you what are you shaking your head about what are you shaking your head about you're still going to argue at this point now I've heard no I've heard your rationale hold on hold on Nico would never ever Nico would never ever do that but they are in year two of in his own definition a three to four year contending window God, that was one of the most, that, that press conference, that press conference in Cleveland. That was one of the craziest things of all time. This is year two. Yeah, we have a three to four year window.

So year two, light this thing on fire, right? And bro, you lucked in to getting Cooper Flagg. At some point, I would say, pronto, the focus of the franchise has got to be pivoting around Cooper Flagg. Because let me just remind you in success. successfully building a finals team around five-time first team all-MBA before entering his prime face of the franchise, Luca Donchich. You gave up control of your draft, your first-round draft picks 27, 28, 29, and 30. You've got this year's, and then you don't have your own again. First of all, they have this year.

And I look forward to this year, the Mavericks getting AJ DeBancetza, Cooper Flag, Camer, Boozer. somebody at the top of the draft because that's going to happen and the internet's going to break and then it's going to be Cooper and another star. I don't want to be a defense attorney here in this case. I just want to point out in fairness that when he did the press conference in Cleveland, he didn't know Kyrie was tearing his ACL within days. It doesn't matter. You traded a guy, again, we don't need to relitigate the whole thing, but they traded the guy who's 25 and announced that they had a three-year window. That's my point. As the rationale for the trade. When they go on and tell us about that was a championship caliber team on the court for those two quarters.

No, I'm not going to do anything. I just need to point it out. I have another player. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. My point is this, though, do you want a GM whose job security is very tenuous? And because of that has a very short-term view, plus his windows three to four years. Do you want him making long-term decisions for a franchise that just has an eight, just lucked into an 18-year-old potential.

superstar. I think we know. I think we know what the focus of the Mavericks franchise is right now. And it's on Cooper Flag. And I would be very surprised if this season trades are made that go against the timeline of Cooper Flag. That would be my guess. They can't be.

They cannot be approved. I understand that. That's my point. I don't know. I don't know who's going to run the team in terms of the trade room or who's going to to be in charge or whatever. But I would bet, based off of the way things have gone over the past several months, that the Cooper flag timeline is the one that Dallas would be looking at.

And again, I look forward to the internet breaking next May when Dallas, after a very bad season, jumps up in the lottery and gets a got to go with Cooper. And whoever's running the team can say it was also part of the plan, just like jumping up to get Cooper in the first place, all part of the plan. It's all part of the plan. I have another player for you to pick out for stats. Okay. Ooh.

Average 19.1 points a game. 35% from the field. John Moran. And today, after going two of seven on threes, increased his three point percentage from 12% to 15%. John Moran. More importantly, I believe he was 0 for 9 on mid-range shots in that game. We discovered something like Jackson, McMahon,

is just slamming it out of the park. Part-guides. I need some of the NBA. These are like under the radar players. Plus, these are like guys. Following the Grizzlies mess very closely. I'm following the Matrix mess very closely. I forgot the other one that I got.

If McMahon had been given all the answers to the test beforehand, they would not have needed the eight years to get through his collegiate tenure. Listen. Let's put it that way. Listen, I am, my GPA was 2.3. That's the 2.3. I would have guessed. That's more attempts than John Morant had in the restricted area tonight.

I have 18 field goal. Okay? Brothers. I'm just telling you. Jackson, I'm going to read him, AJ Mitchell's stats next. Wait a minute. Did I forget to meet on then? J.

Jah has, ah, crap, I wish I had these numbers up right now. He has right around 30% of his field goal, Tim. You know, like you look on the NBA shot chart. It's the restricted area plus a little bit. It's that little circle that they have around the hoop. He's got about 60%, I'm sorry, less than 30% of his attempts are coming from there. In his heyday, when he, you know, his two All-Star seasons, it was like 53%. And I sent you guys these quotes from tonight.

Okay. These are, these are from De Michael Cole with Memphis Commercial Appeal. John said he's getting shots he wants, no concern. Quote, that's why I don't get too frustrated because I be in this arena. I be in the practice gym doing the same thing. Right now it's just continuing to shoot, continue to shoot with confidence and wait for it to translate over. Dude, the opposing defense wants you taking jump shots, breaking news. Now, they ask him like, hey, what about getting the rim?

Like all your rim numbers are plummeting, plummeting like. They've been cut in half, basically, from when he was a 26, 27 point per game score. I'm getting no foul calls. You all had a whole spiel about running in there careless and getting hurt. So what now? That's what y'all want me to go back doing? Let's end that combo right here. If John Morant, who, you know, four or five years ago led the league in paint scoring,

and right now ranks 40th in the league in paint scoring, if John Moran isn't like league. best level is an elite at attack in the rim? Do you know what job means? Just average. Like, he's waiting for that one. Seriously. He had that one lined up, folks. He had that one lined up for days, folks. He was ready. He is not. Get that one in there. He is not an awesome pain attacker. He's just a guy. Well, again, this goes back to the conversation we had the other day. He's not one of the 10 best point guards in the league. And when you factor

in all the other stuff that comes well, but again, well, this is what he's been playing like. And to factor in all the other stuff that comes with him, he's just not worth it, which again, goes back to the situation that Memphis is in. By the way, I have the stats here.

Jha is taking 71% of his shots roughly from inside the three point line. And he's taking 15% of his shots, 15 and a half. to be precise from inside three feet. That's taking basketball reference, right? Yes.

And he's taking 30% of his shots. Right. That's before today's game. He's taking 29% of his shots just under 30% from 3 to 10 feet and another 17% from the midrange, which by the way went up today. Because again, he was 0 for 9 on mid range jumpers in today's game. And you look earlier in his career when he was playing at an all-MBA level. and those zero to three foot numbers were in the 30s.

They've been sliced in half. Yeah, by year of his career, zero to three feet, percentage of shots, 39.6%, 33.5%, 33.5%, 23.9%, 28.9%, 28.8%, 23.8%, 15.5%. That is not just a descending order. That is by year they have gone down every year. That was an order from rookie year to now. Well, they played the Thunder today. They were up by 19. The Thunder went 10 of 43 on threes on the road, which in the NBA, if you shoot 10 of 43 on the road and you're down by 19, that's curtain. You don't win very often. And the Thunder won by 14. And Jaws' body language just progressively got glummer. Is glummer a word? I think it is. More glum, whatever. Whatever that word is. Shea was a cool 35 on plus 28 in the game too by the way on the other side. She just scores, She's, she scores 35.

It's not news. You know, it's funny. I was reminded today. 35, 7 and 6 and one turnover. Not bad. Some of our buddies in OKC, one of them's big rich. I won't mention the other guy. Years ago, when John was at his all NBA heyday, they were telling me I'd rather bill around Shea.

and I would always say like you guys are such homers like that is such a ridiculous take in hindsight it's hilarious that I was so convinced that Jal was drastically a better long-term event it's it wasn't it wasn't that long ago I mean it's just a reminder of how fast things can change in the league and you know for a guy especially a guy like Jha whose game is built on athleticism like we were talking about it the other day it reminds me a ton of Derek Rose. It's a very similar career arc to Derek Rose. And after Derek wrote Derek's injury, it just was never quite the same.

He was a good player. He had moments where he was very effective, but it never really got back to the first couple of years he had in the league again. And there ended up, like the end of his tenure in Chicago feels a lot like where things are at right now in Memphis. And I just don't see a way that's going to change until he, is elsewhere. And Jah has not had, obviously, the devastating knee injury, like his season ending injury was a shoulder deal, that that's not sapping his athleticism. I'm really not so much

sure that his athleticism is diminished as much as his fearlessness that kind of defined him is gone. And just listen to him, man, the rest don't be giving me no calls. He doesn't want to go in there and take the contact. And he has had some scary falls. He has, like, especially, especially last year when he came down and he screwed his hip up pretty good and didn't. I mean, that was a play. He absolutely should have gotten a call. He didn't. But again, if Jod is not attacking the rim with like ruthlessness, he's just a guy.

He's a pretty good point guard. I mean, he ain't a 35 percent. It's ridiculous. But if he's primarily a jump shooter, he sure ain't going to be the engine of elite offense ever again. Jackson, the Syracuse grad, says that Websterer Dictionary says glummer is a good. It's a word.

Usually it's us teaching you words. Well, I think, man, McVan, McVan's all over the Webster's dictionary. You two are kind of like glum and glummer. At certain times of the year, that's true. All right, well, I think that's all the potting we've got for tonight. Uplifting final 20 minutes or so. Welcome to my life right now, though. Bontem has to get back up 95.

All right, I'm headed out to California. Please, my flight, hopefully everybody's paid and everybody's working and they can direct the plane in. Maps have four home games this week. I know the city of Dallas is fired up. Can't wait for that report. Can't wait for that. Thank you to Jackson.

Thank you to Bontem. McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching at The Hoop Collective. By the way, we're on TVs, on ESPN on our Wednesday pods. On the TVs. Check it out, depending on your provider. Thank you for watching, listening to The Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you next week. Adios amigos.