Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Disaster Brewing For 76ers? Jimmy Butler Returns, Hawks A Tough Out?

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss if a disaster is brewing for the 76ers this season including where Philly goes from here before talking Devin Booker and the Suns taking a step forward. Plus, the latest on Jimmy Butler’s return including what may be the next steps for him with the Heat and why the Hawks could be a tough out in the playoffs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Sunday morning. Good morning, folks.

Joining us from Miami, Florida, where he's got an afternoon game with the Spurs and Heat today. That's why we're doing it early because the Spurs has got to get to Paris. I'll take over from there, Bon Temps. Thank you very much. Timbontemps. Big time and everybody, for usual. So I roll. Somebody's got to go work 20 hours a day in Paris.

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he's recovering from his 12-year-old twins birthday party overnight. I'm sure it was one of those slumber parties, Ban McMahon. Howdy partners. I still remember my 12th birthday party slumber party. Listen, this one was a party bus to chicken and pickle. We didn't have a party bus.

It was a whole ordeal. It was a whole ordeal. A bunch of smart mouth punk kids. It's amazing. I haven't smacked one on upside the head. The morning is young. So we might want to pot for a while to let these kids get the hell out before I come back out there. We should have them all in.

No, we should not. Speaking of rough nights, I don't know if you guys saw, but the Sixers lost again. Oh, shocker. The top Sixers. Oh, my gosh. So, Bontems, you've devoted so much time in your life traveling up and down I-95 for the last few years, including this year. And since we last spoke to everybody, they announced that Joellen Beatt's foot. sprain, which...

Oh, good news here. Good news. Yeah. Joelle Embed's foot sprain is healed. That was actually in the press release. Right. That's great. Great. I was like, okay. He'll be up...

I was waiting for the second sentence, which he'll be upgraded to, you know, questionable or something. And then they said, however, his knee is swollen again and he's out for another seven to ten days as they go on the road. Not so good news. Not so good news. And they lost again. They've lost five in a row.

They've lost eight out of ten. And Bontemps, like... this is this is on the horizon of being one of the worst disasters for a season in the modern NBA this is I don't know if I would quite say it's Lakers when they got Dwight Howard and Steve Nash you know that this is going to be fun because I don't really think that was quite the same you know Kobe ain't on this roster but like this was champions of the offseason like like let's go like let's you know let's let's compete with the Celtics and you know we're having conversations about worrying about their top six protected pick.

Like this is a grade A disaster that's unfolding here in Philly. Yeah, I mean, I would say the season is over today, if not for the fact that the Bulls this week, I mean, we'll see what happens Sunday against Portland. But in their last three games, the Bulls have lost to the Pelicans who've gone on a nice streak lately. They got smacked by the Hawks on Wednesday when this was the Hawks starting lineup. Dice, Daniels, Vit, Crachy, Keaton Wallace, David Roddy and Clint Capella at home. Not exactly great.

And then they lost to Charlotte on Friday. So the Bulls, who are only a couple of games ahead in 10th place, seem like they might be starting to enter the mode of trying to keep their own top. The Bulls are making damn sure they're not going to send the number 11 pick in the draft to the San Antonio Spurs. They're doing their best to make McMahon look wrong. However, all that being said, we've talked about the stretch of the Spurs are the the Sixers are in. It's 13-A-stress for the trade deadline.

They're 0-3. They're playing Milwaukee on Sunday. They have all these guys out. Real quick. Paul George sat out, and I mean, this pot will go up and it'll be known, but Paul George sat out Saturday's game with groin tightness, it said. Is that just him skipping back-to-backs or is he, like, actually injured? I mean, we'll find out on Sunday, I suppose.

I mean, it's, I mean, the whole thing is just. Because you had a game this last week where Paul George, like, warmed up before the game. and then it was like, up. He was probable, he was probable, and then he was out. Well, the good news is it's only three and a half years left on his max contract. Yeah, I mean, there is no good news at this point with the Sixers. And like I said, the only reason. 24, 25 Sixers, Colin, there is no good news.

That's the team video, sorry. I have been convinced their season would be done when this stretch is over because they'd be so far out of 10th that their only option would be to try to keep their pick. Chicago may make it so that by default someone has to finish 10th and maybe the Sixers will finish 10th if they can ever get their guys healthy. But I don't know how anybody could look at this team right now and think anything other than this season is completely cooked, which is a remarkable thing to say on January 19th about a team that was right there with anybody in the offseason and had three guys that made all-star teams last year and were three of the top 20, 25 players in the league on their team. I don't think they were going to beat Boston, but certainly we thought they were going to be a team that was a home court advantage team in the playoffs or at worst in the top six in the east, not in the bottom five and pondering the attempt to try to keep their top six protected pick. That by the way, if they end up with the eighth or ninth pick in a loaded draft, it goes to Oklahoma City is the latest part of the treasure trod of assets that Sam Presti and Co have.

The Thunder have gotten a little bit unlucky with since they started acquiring top picks. like, you know, the Rockets, it was like right on the edge there where they were going to get that rockets pick and then the Rockets were able to get into it. There was, I feel like there was another. The Jalen Green pick they would have had. I feel like there was another one where they were like right on the edge and then didn't get it. The Jazz last year. But yeah, the Fathers were a little different though.

Yeah, the Jazz aggressively made sure they're like the Jazz pulled what the Bulls are doing right now. Like let's take a turn and make sure we keep this pick. But yeah, the thunder will, it's crazy. This team might win, I don't know, 650 games over the next decade and have a lottery pick most years. It's insane. It's nuts. And like the Sixers, man, at this point, I think the best case scenario for them is that they're able to keep their top six protected big. I'm not sure how you're going to be able to pull that off because.

Well, by just, I mean, the simple, I mean, they're going to be somewhere in the top 10 record-wise. It's just whether they get lucky in the draft ladder or not. And under the new rules, there's a much better chance of that than there used to be. But, I mean, we're talking about an extraordinarily unlucky team. Are we going to bet on their luck turning now and they end up with the number one picking this draft? It seems unlikely to me. Well, they've had the Irish Maxy luck and that's about it. That's true.

And the one sliver of good news they had had season ending knee surgery with Jeremy McCain. But like forget about like just the picture this season. and, you know, do they somehow wheeze it away into keeping their pick? Dude, Paul George, the Clippers are looking very smart for not wanting to go full boat max on him. And Joelle and Bede, how much money is he owed? The guys played 13 games this year. Because there's been so many, you know, because the Sixers have to be very careful with how they announce the injuries with Joel, it's something that's very delicate with him. and also, you know, just because there's been so many different rounds of it that it can be desensitizing.

I think people are losing track of the fact that he keeps missing games with this knee swelling and they're not announcing an injury. There is, he hasn't gotten hurt. His knee is just broken right now. He has, it's going to be chronic through the rest of his career. The guy played 39 games last year and honestly, like that's going to be. a number I'm not sure that he reaches a lot in his career unfortunately. And this is a dude who with this extension is owed $67 million in 28, 29. Like the Ben Simmons contract for a long time was

the worst contract in the NBA. Sixers have two contenders right now. This has been Paul George's worst season since 2015, 16 when he was still coming off the broken leg, I think. I mean, that doesn't even count. I think you played 10 games that season. Or maybe it was, oh, yeah. And that was at the end of the year. That's right. You're right.

But like, he's just, he's having one of the worst seasons of his career. Yeah, he's averaging 17 points and he's shooting 42% from the floor. And he's played, you know, he's at least played the majority of their games. But again, like, the hope with Paul George is he's going to be able to play 60 plus games. The hope at this point in beat is maybe he can get to 50. And again, the idea that this team. was just going to kind of like load manage their way into a top seed and, you know, oh, boom, turn everything off time.

They have had every single guy in the team shoot horribly on wide open shots, including Paul George, which has been a big part of the problem when they've had guys on the court. And then, like, you know, the fact that Joelle in particular has just not been available, like, you know, that's, you said before the season, Joel was going to play 13 of the first 40 the games. You'd probably think the Sixers were better than this, but it's not like you'd think they were going to be 28 and 12. So, you know, Paul George has missed more than half the games. And like you said, Jeremy McCain was the one bright spot they had. He's not off for the year. Him and Gershnehabiliselae are the two guys who played above their expected level the whole year.

Tyrese has been a disappointment. He has played far below the level you'd hope for him, despite the fact that his numbers overall are fairly gaudy. He has not shot the ball well. He has not played great. So yeah, I mean, it's, the season is going as badly as it possibly could have in virtually every way. And that's how you're sitting here. If you're the Sixers going into this game Sunday, if they lose, they're on pace to win 30 games and be firmly in the mix to, you know, have some potential of lottery luck to keep their pick. So let's just talk about that real quick, because I just want to focus on the situation because, you know, they're not, they're quote unquote, not giving up right now. I mean, they're, I assume trying to win these games. Right now,

they have the eighth worst record in the league. There are seven teams that have fewer wins than them. And by the way, I don't think there's any way they get worse than ninth. This is my point. Yes. This is what I keep talking about with the standing stuff. Yeah. So if you look at the teams that are quote unquote ahead of them,

behind them, I guess, but ahead of them in the tankathon, Utah has 10 wins. I don't know if Utah. So the 76 years as we do this pod, we'll see what happens on Sunday. They have 15, okay? I'm not sure Utah. is going to get to 15 wins before the end of February. If they do, it'll be kicking and screaming. You want to talk.

I would just say it. I would just say it this way, Brian, to save time. The seven teams below them, Brooklyn, Portland, Portland, Charlotte, New Orleans, Utah, Toronto, and Washington. The one team, I think, that has a chance to pass them is New Orleans. Right. Because they're now healthy. They're winning games. I think there's going to be some motivation to play their guys, play Zion Williamson,

when they get Brandon Ingram back to play him. I think there's a world Philly gets to seventh. I don't think any of those other teams are going to be winning very many games the next three months. And the other, the point I was making was the teams that are on the other side of them, San Antonio, Miami, Detroit, Phoenix, Golden State, Sacramento. Those teams are going to be winning at a way higher clip than the Sixers are. So to me, they're going to be somewhere in the seven to nine range, depending on what happens to Chicago, depending on what happens to New Orleans, which is outside the top six. And it all comes down to they're going to have somewhere between 30 and 40% chance, depending on exactly where they land, to have a coin flip, you know, ping pong ball situation going in favor. And you talk about like the biggest disaster seasons in recent NBA history. We can talk about some of the Brooklyn seasons. But this is the thing there was those were cases of, hey, this super team didn't want to stay together. You know, for a wide variety of reasons, whatever. That was a super team breaking up. This is a so.

called super team that isn't that you're stuck with. You know, you're potentially stuck with. Well, at least, if this thing blows up, though, at least Brooklyn got a bunch of fodder for a rebuild. You know, now they had to go scramble to get their own picks back. But at least when they traded Kevin Durant, they got a haul. Now, they had to trade Kyrie at a bargain basement discount price, which by the Like, Gary, after the game the other night, somebody asked him about the anniversary of the PJ Washington trade.

He's like, when's the anniversary of my trade? He said, we won that trade. I was bad goods. He was kind of rubbing it in the net's face. But, again, the point is, like, if this thing, if, like, dude, you think they're getting a haul for Joel and beat at this point when he's due $6 million at age for Paul George? I would never say that, but I would say that they have, unlike the Nets, who did not have their picks going forward. The Sixers, for the most part, I'm trying to look and see what picks they have out beyond this year. I think they have most of their picks going forward.

They have several other picks coming in, including a future clipper of protected pick. And other than this year's pick, that they're, you know. Well, listen, I'm just saying, they have control of their pick. They have Tyrese, who is a young, a very good young guard, who's obviously had a rough year. Like, they have some, they're not the Nets who at that point were going to be at zero. zero with no picks going for for seven years. But I'm not trying to say this is some great situation. It's obviously rough. But they do, I think, have some potential outs. But the question, this is not the kind of conversation we were supposed to have about the six or 40 games.

Oh my God. That's what I'm saying. Well, that's where that's where we're at. Well, okay. So if they were to finish right where they're at right now and they have the eighth worst record, it's roughly a 25% chance of keeping their pick. They have a 25% chance of going into the top four. And if you're Oklahoma City and you are looking at a 75% chance of a top 10 pick, you're signing up for that trade a thousand times over. Well, and if it doesn't convey this year, it's top four protected. Well, not top 10 because it has to be outside the top. Yeah, a 75% chance of a pick that would be somewhere between seven and nine or 10 or whatever. Yeah, right. That's pretty amazing. And again, if not this year,

It's top four protected next year. Will things go better for the Sixers next year? I mean, they couldn't go worse, but... Yeah, I mean, have to figure. I don't know. The biggest problem is, why is Joelle and Bede's knee swelling? That's the biggest problem, because he didn't get hurt. Like all these other times, we've seen him have these bad falls.

You know, some of them been freak injuries or whatever, but we saw him get hurt, okay? He won the Olympic gold medal, took some time off. and when he went to go start playing basketball again a month or so later and ramping back up, it's not worked. And there's, they're saying it's knee swelling and I respect Joel protecting his medical information, but there is something that is causing that need not to work. And that problem without being an injury is the biggest problem they've got.

And it's not like those things just go away as a massive human ages into his 30s. Like this is going to be a problem. And they acknowledge that before to see. season when Joelle Bede sat down with the USWB himself and it was sunny out there. Where was that, Bontems? The Bahamas, one of your little boondoggles, as Wendy says, that you. Oh, yes, I have so many boondoggles. Yes.

But like basically. Nothing like traveling up and down northeast in the winter for being the definition of a boondoggle. Oh, he's in South Beach now, baby, just living the life. But, I mean, they didn't put a number on it. But essentially, they said, hey, the plan is. Joel is going to play hopefully 50-something games, and then, you know, we'll flip the switch come playoff time. Like that was the hope. I would not say that was exactly the plan. I would not say this has gone the way, I feel very comfortable saying this is not what the Sixers expected this

plan to look like from the beginning. Again, because he's not on pace 50-something games. But when he's talking about like, I'm punning on ever being an MVP again, basically he was saying, hey, I'm not going to be, I'm not in 65 games. Well, look, I think it made sense from the beginning to say Joelle Abed was not going to play regular season back to backs. That does not mean, like, Joel, if he played every game and didn't play back to backs, like basically what Kauai did, which is the comparison that I made at the time and I think is what was sort of envisioned. Why played 60 games, okay? If Jewel was on pace to play 60 games, the season would look very different than it looks now. That's the bottom line.

So this is not gone the way the Sixers had envisioned it at the time. Here's the only thing that's good news for the Sixers, within the team at least. The Washington commanders are in the NFC championship game. Don't say that because there's one person who's happy about that, Josh Harris. And I think every basically, well, okay. So Josh Harris is happy. And the entire city of Philadelphia potentially is going to be playing the commanders next weekend. And they're, let's just say that I have Sixers fans, friends that are not thrilled that Josh Harris owns the commanders.

As I said, the Sixers organization. not the Sixers fans. But that's not the sixers organization. This is the first, this is the first time the commanders have been in the NFC championship game since McMahon was a juvenile delinquent.

I was a juvenile delinquent well into my 30s. Well, listen, if Embed was healthy the whole time, they'd be maybe a 500-ish team. They're seven and six when he plays. Oh, God. Well, when the three guys play

and finish a game, they're six and one. So like, wow, that's a guy, I didn't know that number. That, I mean, that's all well and good, but that ain't, coming anytime soon.

But the key number there is not six and one. Yes, it's seven out of 40. It's nine and 24, which is the other 20, the other 33 games. That's where we're at. The team that beat them on Saturday, the Pacers, they, by the way, I believe, are seven and one in the new year. Best team in the NBA since the new year are tied for. So let's keep an eye on those Pacers.

I'm going to be spending some time with them over the next week in Paris. Oh, well. More hoop collective pot. After this. Also a team that is doing pretty well. I'll have some croiss in their last eight games, I think, or maybe six and one. And Devin Booker, Bontemps, I think, should be getting lauded by Suns fans because about 10.

Not just me. Not just me. Oh, I've been lumped in here. Hey. Lumped in. We had the same opinion. We did. Yes, we did.

And by the way, the opinion is accurate. I think CAA is going to throw like a shindig to honor us for inspiring this just liftoff by Booker recently. Listen, if the All-Star rosters are picked from January 1st on, Devin Booker will be a starter in the All-Star Day. Well, and again, it was never, is Devin Booker an All-Star caliber player? But All-Start based on performance this season. Correct. So Booker had 35. They won in Detroit.

They're six and two over their last eight games. They had been one and seven over their previous eight games. Booker has scored 30 plus in five straight games. He's the second longest streak of his career. His longest streak is seven games. Honestly, that actually surprises me. I thought he would have surprised me to longer ones, but okay. The first game that Nick Richards played, they traded for me, played in Detroit.

And by the way, speaking of Detroit real quick, and I'm not, I have another. thing bad to say about Mr. Isaiah beef stew Stewart. Oh, you better not. I, you're playing with Legos like you did Miles Starner. I'm pro Lego,

buddy. I, um, you know, real men, real men build Legos, especially with their children. So his branding Miles Turner, less than for being a Lagos guy,

as he did the other day. I just won't stand for it. So I side with Miles Turner. Also, side with Legos. It was an amazing. I mean, I have a seven-year-old, so let's be honest. There was an amazing moment on NBA Today this last week where Derek Lively was on NBA

today. And in the middle of the interview, unplanned, Malika asked him about his, about Legos. And he's like, oh, well, let me show you. Oh, yeah. And he flipped the key, he flipped his zoom, you know, his iPad around and showed her his Lego set up. Anyway. Big Lego guy.

Nick Richards, first game for the Sons on Saturday. How about a little 21 and 11? Not bad. off the bench, which I don't anticipate will be the case much longer. So we'll see. I mean, I'm not going to base a lot on, you know, for a one good game from Nick Richards, but the sons who needed to run some, to run hot are running hot. If you want to have to be fun with, hey, the son's running hot or is Devin Booker running hot?

Well, Devin Booker is running hot. If you want to have the fun with when they're healthy, when Katie and Booker both play, they're 19 and 7. Yeah. Now, again, the problem is, that's not that often. also they're 19 and 7 and that lineup or that that duo like the net rating isn't what you would anticipate or want when you have a dual superstar duo out there remember their 8 in 1 star was like just pulling game after game after game out in crunch time the so the net rating is 4.1 which is you know a bit better than middling but 19 and 7 and, you know, two guys who can certainly get your buckets down the stretch. I think that it's just, it's so tough to see, like, how they can raise the ceiling of this team.

Obviously, you know, there's the whole Jimmy thing that's out there. And we've talked about just the challenges, the obstacles of making a deal like that happen. But you've got this weird thing now where Beal's kind of been, I don't know, if ostracized is a fair, word, but it's a big one, and I'd have to look it up to make sure I'm using it correctly, but feels that way. Richards was there was a nice little swing to make a desperate upgrade on the center position. One that sacrificed almost all their draft picks left. They had three second round picks.

They traded all of them to get them. Except for the 2031, which does. No, I know. I meant that's their second round picks. Oh, yeah. And the 231 first round pick, it's one of those things where, hey, that pick has value. It has a lot of value. Why does it have a lot of value?

Because the Sons are, like teams are forecasting the sun six years out, you know, saying, let's see, they've blown up the rest of their draft capital. Kevin Duran is near in his late 30s. Like, what are the suns going to look like six years out? Let's line up and try to figure out a way to get that pick. So that pick has value. You know, would it be wise to cash in the value of that pick for this roster? Well, I mean, there is all in is all in getting. Listen, right now the suns are out of the playing in the West, and I know this is looking a bit far ahead, but I was just looking at their schedule.

This is their schedule from March 2nd to the end of the year. Minnesota, Clippers, Denver, Dallas, Memphis, Houston, Sacramento, Lakers, Raptors, Bulls. And then Cavs, Bucks, Celtics, Celtics, Wolves, Rockets, Bucks, Celtics, Nicks, Warriors, Thunder, Spurs, Kings. So 20 out of 22 games against teams. winning records and are all going to be expected to be in the playoffs or around them. That is a brutal stretch to end the year. When you're in the West, you don't get those Nets, Hornets, Raptors, Wizards, reprieves.

Well, that's the stretch. I'm going to throw the, but that's the stretch they're in now. I'm going to throw the 76ers, Nets, Hornets, Raptors, Wizards reprieve that Well, but I'm saying their schedule, Brian, for the last, that's why I looked it up, because I was looking at their schedule as we were talking to see how they've been doing. So they beat the Sixers. they lost to the Hornets, they beat the Hawks, then they beat the Jazz, the Hornets,

they beat the Wizards, and now they beat Detroit. And they've got more games coming up against the Pelicans, the Nets, the Wizards. My point is they have to clean up right now because they're already outside looking in and that closing schedule, even if they have everybody healthy,

like 500 in those 22 games is going to be pretty good. That's why they're trying to get Jimmy Butler. Another way to put it is their remaining strength the schedule based on opponent's winning percentage is the toughest in the NBA. Well, there you go. It is the toughest in the NBA. So, well, that first round pick, they are willing to trade. The standard is high, but they're offering it around.

You know, that's just, that's just long story short. On Monday, they play in Cleveland. The calves are coming off a challenging road trip. I mentioned that the Pacers have been really good since the new year. The Pacers only lost since the New York is to Cleveland on this road trip that they're on that they just were on. They also beat the Cavs to end their 15-game win streak or where was it 13-game win streak, whatever it was. The Cavs won Saturday night in Minnesota, which was a good win because Evan Mobley is banged up right now. And I'm not sure what his status is going to be for Monday.

They did catch the wolves on a back-to-back and the wolves kind of melted in the second half of that game. So I'm wondering they might have got lucky there. But the Cavs coming off a tough stretch here. facing the sun. So that's a great opportunity to test the sun's just how good this streak is. Bradley Beals missed the last two games with an ankle injury. So we'll see whether he can go on Monday. NERC is sick too. NERC has got an illness. So that takes a big presence away from the Sun's bench and I do mean glued to it. I hope there's an empty seat over there. I hope NERC is feeling better, but not a while. I like NERC. I'm not going to, I'm not messing

with. That's another guy I'm not messing with. nice fella but he's now their four-string center who's due what 19 million next year yeah it's a bit of a problem um all right bonn samps you're in miami uh there's a obviously a game this afternoon victor is in town i'm not sure what'll happen you know we always are a little bit late on the pod and god knows i'm not going to predict what's going to happen today but jimmy returned the other night and returned with a a press release slash fax from his agent meant to mimic the Jordan return in 96. And what do you wear?

He wore the Jordan 45 jersey to and from the game, Fontamps. How's your Jimmy Butler watch in Miami going this weekend? The drama continues, I would say, is the answer. And honestly, it's like, it's eye roll inducing. Like, we get it. Jimmy, you want out, you're going to make life difficult on everybody. But, I mean, it's just, come on, man.

Like the whole thing. Here's the deal with Jimmy Butler. If he wanted to get out of Miami truly, I mean, I shouldn't say that. The best chance for him to get out Miami to get what he wants is to get traded somewhere else would have been to show up starting Friday and play his tail off for the next three weeks. Because the problem Jimmy Butler has is that as much as he wants to leave, and as much as frankly, I think the heat would like to be over this situation and just move forward as a team, the bottom line is the only teams that are really motivated right now to get him are teams that

cannot deliver Miami the requisite stuff necessary to get a deal done. And by the way, the heat, I don't think are going into this expected to get a Rudy Gobert trade package for Jimmy Butler. But what they're not going to do is take on three years of Bradley Beale. They're not going to put themselves in a position that takes them out of free to C and 26 or more importantly than anything leaves them in a position where they don't have flexibility to augment the roster going forward because, I mean, Brian and I both know Andy Ellsberg, the GM here, have known for a long time. You look at the way this team has transformed itself over time. The thing, the heat, have always prioritized the ability to make the next move. And if they make some move

with Jimmy that doesn't allow them to make the next move, then it doesn't make any sense for them to do that. So the question between now and the trade deadline is, does a deal come along that gives the heat a modest return that gives them some combination of players that can help them now, or young players, or draft capital, or salary that ends in 26, or all the above in some form, that they'd say, hey, we can do this for some percentage of a dollar for Jimmy's services and will be done with this. But as of now, that trade doesn't exist. Yeah, and just not have like baggage moving forward. That's the biggest things here. I did love Spolstra's whole routine of you're all looking for drama as far as silly questions like what is the temperature of the

room or how is everybody feeling that just sounds so dramatic we're professionals we're fine I'm like really Eric was that Eric was the dog in the house on fire being saying this is fine and you know how the house got on fire because Jimmy's in the corner lighting his farts on fire and like we're look you're looking for drama if Jimmy could figure out how to do that in the locker room I think he would yeah I mean that's, I mean, but that's the, that's the whole, that's the whole story. Like, this is not 2018, Jimmy Butler. He's not 28 anymore. So it's, it's going to be very, he's got to, I think, play ball to some degree if he wants to get what he wants. So the thing about Eric Spolstra is that

he's incredibly reliable. We nicknamed him when I was covering the heat a decade ago. We nicknamed him the Spobot because he is so consistent and so focused. And, in his interview sessions, for the most part, he's occasionally comes off script, but in his interview sessions, he's very, very steady. And he's very hard to, like he, he approaches the interview session like he's going to battle. He will literally run into the room and jump on to the, to the dais, and he will, like, get into a defensive position. And if you, like, don't have a question in, like, 20 seconds.

If there's a five second pause, he will leave. He will like bolt off the deus. And, you know, he is very engaged. And he will absolutely shut you down no matter, no matter what he is. No problem shutting you down. So he comes in and doesn't even, well, Bont temps you were there. He doesn't even wait for a question. He has a solo.

He came in, he came in with a script ready to read to try to nip in the bud as many questions as he could about the Jimmy's situation. But that's not Spobot. Spobot doesn't change his routine. Spoh. And so it was interesting. So we were on Countdown on Friday. You were in the room. And Bontemp's actually did that show a huge solid because Spoh was speaking like moments

before we went on the air. And Bontemp sent me the audio. We didn't even have the video up of it yet. This is Bontem's being a good teammate. And literally with Malika, Richard Jefferson, Bob Myers and I, I played Spolstra's audio moments before we went on the air so that we had the absolute freshest audio. And I even had to read some stuff that Spolstra said.

And I thought Bob Myers' reaction to that was very telling because obviously Bob has the history of the situation. And he's just like, that's Eric Spolstra demonstrating this is getting to him, which was the exact opposite of what they wanted to put out. Like nothing's getting to us. But the fact that he came in with that. Yeah, I mean, that was obvious. That was obvious the second he did it.

But look, like the heat, that's my point. The heat are tired of this situation. Like that is in. But that's, I mean, I'm tired of it. That's my point. Like everyone is tired of it. They would like it to be over. It's not like this is some situation where, oh, they dug their heels in and

say, man, we just were, we're committed to making this work with Jimmy Butler. We're never trading them. This isn't happening. But the problem is, again, there isn't a market. for Jimmy Butler. And part of that is because Jimmy Butler is a huge pain to deal with. So if Jimmy Butler decides to play ball for three weeks, I think it would help him greatly in his desire to get what he wants. Do I expect that to happen? No, I do not. Let me just say two things real quick. And then we can move on from Jimmy Butler for this moment. The first thing, and I can't emphasize this enough as somebody

who was Shams Terrania has been on this story for months now. Jimmy's number one focus is getting traded preferably to the Phoenix Suns. Everything else is secondary. Not getting traded to Team X, not getting traded to Team Y, getting traded to the Phoenix Suns. And so anything that you want to bring that's rational, if it doesn't mean getting traded to the Suns, Jimmy is not going to be interested in it right now.

That's one thing you've got to remember out of all of that. And that is the way he is operating. The second thing is that what Bon Temps has been saying for months as well, which is that Butler's best move is to just focus in playing. I think that's on the table, but not until after the trade deadline. And so that's one of the things that the heat have in the back of their mind. Well, I will say, the most interesting thing that was said on Friday night was when Jimmy Butler was asked by Tim Reynolds at the end of his presser, what happens if you're on the

team on February 7th? He said, I'm going to who, which I did not expect him to say, and frankly, if that is actually true, which by the way, we're in like the absolute funhouse mirror zone. So who knows what's true or not. I just was surprised that he even put that out there as a possibility. Because he is theoretically could be a free agent. And if he's not a free agent, he will be essentially a free agent because he's going to look for an opt-in and trade or a sign and trade. And by the way, I do, as I've said the whole time, I do think that's a real option because for all the reasons we've talked about with the difficulty to trade numbers of that size, salary-wise,

and just frankly, I'm not sure how many teams are going to be that interested in taking on Jimmy mid-season. I am not sure that the heat will find a trade that they can do by the seventh. I think they're going to try very hard to find a trade that they can do by then, but I'm not convinced one's going to materialize. I would just say this. I agree with you. I think, and by the way, since Jimmy had his meeting with Mickey Eras, on Thursday, there is no doubt an uptick in discussions around Jimmy Butler. The heat shifted

into a new gear after that meeting. I even had a team on Friday call me and say, hey, this team is trying to dump some salary. And they go, hey, we were just talking with a couple of teams that we're trying to dump a salary. And they all of a sudden had to like end our phone calls to go do something bigger. They said, what's going on? And I go, well, I don't know. But I speculate. that it has to do with Butler and not just a direct Butler trade, but three and four team trades. The point is, I do think the heat are actually trying, but I'm also going to point something out. And I'm sorry, McMahon, I've rough shot it over here. As we sit here today at this exact moment on Sunday morning, the heat have 20 losses.

The Pacers have 19 losses. The Pacers are in fifth place. So if the heat can't find a trade and they limp their way to February 7th, and then Jimmy Butler is now not incentive to force his way out, but incentivized to play strongly to increase his bargaining position come July, this is not a potentially lost situation for my head. Look, if Jimmy Butler, if that happens, Jimmy Butler balls out from February 7th through however long the heater in the playoffs and playoff Jimmy shows up in the spring, that will greatly enhance the market for him this summer.

I shouldn't say greatly. It will enhance the market for him for sure this summer. But look, I do agree. He want to make a trade now. I think everybody here is ready to move on from this whole thing. But it's just a very difficult trade to make for a lot of reasons. And I'm just not sure one's going to materialize. Yeah.

And it really just the full circle thing here is it just gets back to they are not going to do something that is going to be a negative next year and into the future just to get rid of the biggest headache in the league. And Jimmy has successfully made himself again the biggest headache in the league, which you knew was happening. I mean, like, literally you knew this was happening as soon as Pat Riley's press conference in the last season ended. Yeah, I mean, we knew, yeah, we knew this summer. We knew this summer when he didn't get extended, that at some point this is going to come

to a head. And it's come to a head now. Jimmy Butler's right now, you said enhancing his value, Jimmy Butler's focus right now is enhancing his ability to make a trade. At some point this year, Jimmy Butler has to think about next season. I think right now he prefer that that's with the sons or another team. But the last time Jimmy Butler played a game that he was fully invested in, I mean, he can say whatever he wants, but actions over words was a month ago in Detroit.

And he went for 35, 19, and 10, and four steals. Yeah, I mean, Jimmy Butler's still a really good player when he's fully locked in. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right. On Saturday, the Atlanta Hawks pulled out a win over the Boston Celtics. This was one of those ESPN BPI situations where the Celtics were like high 90%. They were up three with 20 seconds left with the ball, I think. Or no, another Jason Tatea missed mid-range jumper at the buzzer.

Well, also, Drew Holliday had a couple of bad moments in the last minute of regulation. But the point is they were in control to get a win over the Hawks. And they totally botched it down the stretch, including Drew Holliday, passing up a layup and committing a foul on Trey Young. Anyway, the Hawks won that game in overtime. And the Hawks are now four and one this season against the Cavs and the Celtics. And three and O on the road.

They've swept Boston in Boston. And I've got to say, like, the thing about the Hawks, and they're in sixth place now with that win, the Hawks have great perimeter size. And perimeter size bothers the calves. They've beaten the calves twice. And perimeter size doesn't bother the Celtics as much, but it's a better matchup situation for the... They can actually match up with Boston in a way a lot of teams can't. So Boston's having issues. They had another bad shooting game.

They are now eight and eight in their last six. blah, blah, blah. We've talked about them. But I'm going to say, watch out for those hawkers. You know, I'm not sure if you're... Whatever. You, let's say they end up with the seventh or eight seed.

You want to, you excited about that if you're Boston or Cleveland? I wouldn't be. I'm just going to point that out. Well, and especially not if Quinn's wearing the Sally Jesse Raphael's. I'm going to tell you that he busted out the red frames, those red frame glasses. He had put them away, right? Well, he busted them out for the first time since the hawk's stint in Vegas. And I know that for a fact.

I don't have to look it up because, fellas, I have a confession to make. I am the cause for the disappearance of the Sally Jesse Raphael's. Now we know it's going to get aggregated today. Well, somehow, some way, Quinn was unaware that these red frame glasses that he's been wearing since he's been the hox coach, we're known throughout the league as a Sally Jesse Raphael. That's unbelievable. I mean, like, I understand he may not be on social media, but it's a, it's a very big social media thing. Yeah. So I know Quinn pretty well. I covered his jazz teams a lot, and I see him in Vegas and we're just chatting it up, you know, saying hello, catching up.

And I make some just like offhand remark, Bontimes, I think you might have been standing right there. I make some offhand remark about the Sally Jessi Jepal's. I think had no idea. idea what I was talking about. Do you verify this, Bontzams? I can verify all of this. Yes. I'm telling you. Yeah. And Quinn was, I explained him like, no, like, dude, your red glasses. Like they're like the old, Sally Jesse Raphael, the old talk shows host with the red frames. It's what they're known as around the league. And Quinn was mortified. I mean, he gives me a serious look. He says, I would never want to do anything that brings attention to myself. I am never wearing those again.

So, you know, I think there are some NBA people who are very, very aware of things, but this does happen. These guys get into these tunnels and their focus, especially. It's also a very healthy thing for Quinn Snyder to not be. I agree. And also, you know, like, here's the thing. Like, I know. Or anybody in the NBA, frankly.

But like nobody is going to go tell, like, you know, on a team, especially that Quinn, he's a little bit of an intense guy, even though he's a great guy. You know, I actually, I'm stunned by this, but I don't, I believe it. Well, I was stunned by it. And then I had some Hawks, some folks with the Hawks basically tell me, yeah, we kind of reached a consensus decision that, you know, of all the things we needed to talk about with Quinn. We decided just to leave the Sally Jess and Rob Yale conversation out. This is where McMahon's value is.

This is why, you know, all these media guys are getting hired by, this is where they're going to bring McMahon in. the Mavericks are going to hire McMahon to go in and tell Luca. He's going to tell him the truth. Of all the things, of all the teams that hired me, the Mavericks would be 30th on that list. I don't, I, now they, the Mavericks would be 31st, actually.

Wow. Every other team is unlikely. The Mavericks, it's a complete impossibility. But, and I'm not kidding you, last night was the first time. since they were in Vegas that Quinn went back to the Sally Jesse Raphael's and Sally brought a little extra juice, brought some

luck and brought him a road win against those big, bad Boston Celtics. While they're permitting, I'll see Quinn in the Hawks on Monday in New York, the pod runs and I'll be interested to see if he's wearing him on Martin Fifth King Day against the Knicks. We need more reporting on this story.

I will be having a conversation with Quinn about the glasses when we're the other. Oh, he'll love that. I remember back in the 90s. Do it in the press conference. I'm sure he would just. I will not do it in the press conference, but I will have a conversation with him about it, for sure.

I will report back. So back in the 90s, I don't remember for Chicago Sun-Times or the Tribune, but remember when Rodman, Dennis Rodman was always changing his hair color. Of course. And sometimes he would go like with a multicolored or whatever. The Sun-Times or the Tribune used to have a little chart they ran

that listed the Bulls record. when Rodman's hair was different colors. And so I am saying Atlanta media, this is a great opportunity to start charting the Hawks record. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Twitter account or something out there. Okay, yeah, maybe there is. That's all right. I don't know if there is, but I wouldn't be.

Because, like, I'm sorry, it's, like, it's something like the scouts and stuff. You know, that's where I first heard it. They joke about. But, like, if you're a hardcore NBA fan, you're a league pass, like the Sally Jeff, Jesse Raphael is, were part of the joy of watching a Hawks game of seeing Quinn just go frantically crazy over there with these bright red frame glasses on. And it's also brought, I think, Sally Jesse Raphael to a new era of fans. I mean, that is certainly true. I mean, we're all, there's still, I think, the vast majority

of the audience has no idea who she is. Well, Google. I'm sure that Jackson's going to put the side by side up on the YouTube. Yes. I'm sure Jackson had no idea. Jackson had no idea who she was. zero percent chance. Jackson just said I had to Google. Yeah, of course you. That's fine. That's, you know, you're supposed to, that's the what's for. But by the way, Quinn knows who Sally Jesse Raphael is.

That's what's most important. And by the way, over the last 19 games, the stretch that the Celtics are 10 and 9 in, they're now 25th and 3 point percentage. The attempts have gone down a little bit from 50 down to 46, just under 47. And yet there's still seventh in offense and fourth in defense and fourth in that span. So they've had some big wins in there, but it's, it's been a weird stretch. Obviously, it's about a quarter of the season, but I still am not that concerned, but it is pretty weird that they've had this long of a shooting slow. On Friday night, when they played the magic,

and the magic were missing six guys and Palo Ban Carroll was still on a minutes limit. When they played the magic, they took their fewest number of threes and a half of the season in the first half of that game. And then the second half, they sort of went back to their standard. And the players after the game talked about, you know, the better balance that it was, not so much in the number of threes, but how they sought to establish some presence on the interior and then move to the ex, you know, move to the exterior, you know, basically used a three-pointer in conjunction with the interior scoring, not as the, you know, the be-all end-all. Because, you know, very well-known, they came into the weekend. I don't know where we're at now, they were averaging about eight or nine more threes per game than twos. And so, you know,

nobody would, nobody is saying that the three point shot isn't awesome and was a driving factor in their, in their team's victory in the title last year. But I do think that the balance is the factor. And like Joe Missoula is, you know, full bore. He doesn't, you know, but like, it was interesting to see them change their game plan a little bit. And so let's keep an eye on that. Quinn peering through those sallies last night saw a whole lot of Boston bricks. Fifteen of 52. That's 28.8% from three point range. Exactly half of their field goal attempts were threes. And look, Mazzola's thing, and it certainly has been proven right over time, is that the math will break the Celtics way over the course of time. But yeah, it's hard to win games when you're shooting 28.8% from three on that level of

volume. True. Has seven games up in the standings right now. All right, Bon Tempts, you got to get to work. Man, are you cooking up a big breakfast

for those kids, eggs, bacon? I think I've got a bunch of dishes to do, but the cooking. All right.

Thank you, Jackson, our producer. Thank you. You go get some croissants for breakfast. No, I'm not there yet.

I'm in L.A. right now. It's very early. Then your head to pairs, baby. Yeah. Well, next time we'll speak,

we'll be overseas and hopefully have some good stuff there. God knows what these two guys are going to come up with the next couple of days. Thank you for watching, listening to the Hoop Collective. Another two, three days. I might have this laryngitis totally gone, guys. It's going to be very exciting. Just in time to say, pardon mewa. How do you say adios amigos in France?

That's amigos is a Spanish word. Ovoa, Mona, me. Hold on. Say it again. Avvoa mona me. Avoy mona me. That's how we're in it. But we have to use the actual sign-off too.

Oh, adios amigos. Thank you.