Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Does Harden Make The Cavs Contenders? How Wide Open Is The East?

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss Harden’s debut with the Cavs including how much better Cleveland can be after replacing Garland. Next, the guys talk some tanking issues around the NBA before breaking down the historic winning streak for the Hornets and a very unique weekend set of games for the Knicks. Plus, how wide open is the Eastern Conference this season? Finally, the Wolves up and down season continues with some drama around the team.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the HOOP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Monday morning after midnight, Eastern time, Sunday night, Monday morning.

Joining us from New York City, Tim Bontemps. Hello, everybody. Join us from Los Angeles. So, Bontems, McMahon was in Oklahoma City on Saturday. Had a beautiful seat right in the front row, a whole lot of TV time. Yeah. For the Thunder game. As is his way.

A lot of TV time for McMahon. That's right. That's how he rolls. And I was leaving out of L.A. tonight. And the plane was coming in from Oklahoma City. He said, this might be McMahon's flight. Oh, no. McMahon doesn't fly regional jets.

He doesn't fly. He doesn't drive to Oklahoma City. He does not fly regional jets. This guy changed planes. planes. So fly a big plane so that he wouldn't, he couldn't be, he wouldn't take the nonstop. That is insane stuff. It's Ben McMahon.

Howdy partners, as usual. There are elements of truth to your story. It is not a bias against regional jets. I simply arranged my trial to where I would be able to get to the hotel in time to watch the Super Bowl. That was a huge mistake. Well, listen, it wasn't the most exciting game in the world, but. Like, I've never missed.

At least the Patriots lost. That's all that. I don't, I don't miss Super Bowls. Like, I've never missed a Super Bowl since I've been, I don't know, five years old. So. What was your first Super Bowl that you remember? I don't mind. You know what?

I'm not even, I don't know. That's a good question. We're going to totally price out our audience here. No, the first football game that I vividly remember was not a Super Bowl, but it was Dwight Clark making the catch. Um, so the Cowboys didn't, didn't make the Super Bowl. Um, and I vividly, that's, you just showed, you just showed your hand right there, buddy. You know, whatever.

I also have a great memory. Here's why I vividly remember that. My older brother, uh, because I burst into tears and was just like melting down, my brother became a 49ers fan that night and remains one to this day. So I wonder where you got it from. I wonder where you got that, that streak from in your, in your personality. Mine was Bill's Giants when I was six.

That was mine. And wonderful memory. And which, which, I don't know, which Bill's loss was that? I don't remember how it went down. I was the first one. The first one and the closest one. All right. That was Norwood?

That's right. Wide way. Sorry. Sorry. First one I remember was Giants. Well, I remember these giant games, Giants Broncos. Elway versus Phil Sims. I don't think it was close.

It was not close. Yeah. All right. There's our football talk. And that concludes our football analysis. Yes. We're all old. That's right.

People are shutting it down going, my guy, I don't know why I listen to these old guys. All right. So this week, we had an interesting weekend in the NBA. significant games. The NBA taking over, starting to take over the weekends now, lots of national TV games over the weekend. I wiped a tear away when football season ended, not because of I'm unmissed football, but because it means our lives are about to be over. You're a little dramatic, but okay. More than a little. His life is pretty good, folks, just to be clear. ESPN is going to be like, oh, that's right, there's basketball on. The NBA certainly

becomes a larger priority at this point. That's right. That's right. Anyway, so a number of games this weekend. One of the interesting ones was James Hardin's debut with the Cavs in Sacramento on Saturday night. Now, it's hard to kind of tell Sacramento's lost like 13 in a row. It's kind of hard to tell when they're tanking. No, they're tanking. When they pull the starters for crunch time, it's a pretty clear tank move.

They're not alone in that tactic. They don't even, yeah, well, that's a whole other story, but they didn't even, on Friday, they only played some of their starters like 18 minutes. I think Zach Levine played 18 minutes on Friday against the Clippers. So one of the things that the Cavs, you know, they came back, they were down in the fourth quarter, they came back in one. It was, you know, the Kings folded down the stretch because, you know, they were playing a bunch of guys who were just either on two ways or just converted from two ways.

And DeMarre de Rosen did finish the game. But anyway, you know, the. the Cavs were talking about how James Hardin, like, you know, James Hardin and Donovan Mitchell, both had big fourth quarters that they played their first game together, both had over 15 points in the fourth quarter. I think that was the first time that had happened, two different players, something like that.

First time that had happened in the play-by-play era, something like that in their first game. I don't know, whatever it was. Anyway, and after the game, Kenny Atkinson was, you know, praising James Harden because he's like, you know, he didn't even have a practice or a shooter on. He just came and we got going. I was like, wait a minute. James Hardin got traded on Tuesday.

The calves were in Los Angeles. Okay? Was he? Yes. Well, he was in Phoenix on Monday, but Tuesday he was in Los Angeles. I thought he stayed in Phoenix. Well, Ramona Shelburne wrote this whole story where he was going and saying goodbye to everybody. Oh, yeah, that's right.

He went to the facility and did all that. We got traded on Tuesday. The cows were, the cows played. played Wednesday against the Clippers. James did not come to the game. Well, I shouldn't say that. He might have been in the back. He didn't come out.

Darius Garland sat on the clipper bench and was regaled by his teammates and welcomed by the fans. But Harden, like, I don't know, it wasn't there. I don't know where he went. I don't know what he was. But he didn't practice on Wednesday. He didn't practice on Thursday. He didn't practice on Friday. He didn't come to shoot around on Saturday.

So I was like, okay, well, look, you get traded. Like, you know, you have to get your life together, I guess. I guess. But he didn't practice. Then yesterday during the day, a commercial comes out on social media with James Hardin, a new Adidas commercial with him talking about going to play in Cleveland. I guess that's what he was doing. I don't know.

For all I know, he thought there were, you know, he shot this commercial a while ago, knowing that he has a chance, you know, that he, maybe he did like seven of them, you know, places. I don't have the information about his movements. I'm just saying a commercial came out where he said he's walking around showing off his new shoes. They look pretty, they look pretty cool, to be honest with you. Fire. Fire? Fire or not fire? I mean, I am not the target demographic. But I thought they looked pretty, I thought it. I thought it was an effective shoe ad. It was him. So fire. So we're saying fire. Did you guys even see it? Do you guys? I'm not. I'm not. I didn't see it. All right. He's like, I'm headed out east. I'm going to the land. I guess it could have been like AI dubbing that it was a different commercial.

My point is a commercial came out that made it look like he had filmed it in the previous three days, and he did not practice. However, he was... It sounds like to me, Cavs Corner has gotten its first full dose of the James Harding experience.

That's what I was saying. And he came in the fourth quarter and scored a bunch of points and won the game. He came in and helped win the game. Like, this is the James Hardin. experience all the way around. Like, you know, he, he had a good game. The Cavs won.

He got there seemingly Saturday afternoon. Didn't watch anything. Just one more thing. I'm sorry to cut you off. I asked. That's all good. I said, well, he didn't even have shoot around. And I was told, well, the shoot around was optional.

You know, sometimes teams, when they've had a practice stuff, but they'll have like just an optional shoot around because they've gone over their game plan of practice. And typically it's the quote unquote stay ready guys. Usually the guys who've been traded to a team We'll be around to like learn Exactly. I said well why was it optional if the guy hadn't All right look I don't have the full information I wasn't with the team in Sacramento

I may be screwing all this up And I may have to apologize to the Cavs tomorrow No they're like hey we're playing the Kings You know we didn't have to prep for that I mean they're trying to lose and it's fine Listen you go ahead You know who has had the full James Hardin experience Over and over and over again

You. Dary. Oh. And, man. Oh, my God. Daryl Morey, I mean, what a spicy little press conference he had. Like, forget the little jabby took a Jerry McCain selling high. When Darry Mory said that, you know, you look.

That's what the clippers said when they traded the last time somebody made a deal with, with Oklahoma State. They, yeah, we sold high on Shagos. I'm just kidding. They didn't say that. They didn't say that. aggregates, they didn't say that. I'm not sure McCain's going to have that kind of impact on OKC.

But when Morrie said, you look at the moves made by our Eastern Conference competitors, and Pacey said he didn't see any that move the needle. With a dead pan, straight face, he said it. Listen, I am, here's what I'm praying for.

I am praying for first round. Cavs, Sixers. Cavs, Sixers. Give it to me. Four, five. James Hardin going up against the Sixers, his former team, going up against Darry after the whole drama from a couple of years ago. The Sixers have a couple of really juicy picks in the out years.

James wanted to help the Clippers rebuild. He's hurt their future rebuilt by the trade that came in for him in the first place. Let me just say about James Hardin. I don't know if he knew or whatever, but he got out and then they traded Zubach. Like, I don't know what was first chicken or the egg. Maybe he knew they were traded in Zubach. I would say that James's trade precipitated the other trade, I would say. But either way.

Listen, I just want to know where Darryl Moore, what did he did with this basketball Jesus t-shirt? Forget about the t-shirt. What about the portrait? Yeah, no. I mean, that's probably no longer hanging. Like, has he donated that to like an art museum or something? I don't know. Is the T-shirt, like, can you rummage through, like, Thrift Shops in Philly and maybe stumble upon that T-shirt?

Did Dan Gilbert meet, I guess it wouldn't be Dan Gilbert? Did Kobe Altman meet James at the plane wearing his own basketball Jesus T-shirt? They didn't have to meet him at the plane. They were in the same city. Oh, that's right. Meet him at the Uber? It was very convenient. You think they sent him a car?

He's probably got a few of his own. Yeah, well, the adidas ad, adage, ad, there's two great. gorgeous, I don't even know what they are, gorgeous, very, very expensive-looking sports cars. I don't, it's implied that they're his. I don't know if they are. Maybe they were rented. I'm just. He can, he could probably afford him. Anyway, he had 23 points in 32 minutes, and he had five threes. By the way, Jared Allen has had a couple of gigantic games on this road trip without Evan Mowgli.

And he went 11 or 12 in that game. Like, everyone was focused on Donovan and Hardin and rightly so. like they were behind and Donovan, like carried him back and the Hardin put over the top. Donovan had 35 and everything like that. But Jared Allen went 11 of 12 from the field. Well, listen, Jared Allen, I'm sure was pretty happy about the trade for James Harden because one thing that James will do is help your big man look a lot better. Yeah. Can I just say as a real quick aside here?

I was watching the Clippers play the wolves today, which we'll get to. which we'll get to in a minute. And Kauai Leonard was awesome in that game. Absolutely awesome. He had 41 points. And I'm sitting here thinking, like, all of these seasons that the Clippers had derailed because they didn't have a healthy Kauai. Granted, like, you could never take him for granted.

Like, I don't know what will happen in two weeks or two months. All of these years that they were head derailed because Kauai wasn't right. He's never looked better. Yeah. He's never, his shot looks so pure. This is the best he's played since he was in Toronto. Makes you feel like the whole transaction was cursed from the beginning, and this is just the coup de grace on the whole thing.

I mean, this might be the best he's played, period. This is, I mean, well, it's the best radio season in his career. It was a joke. He was a name to the All-Star team. Yeah. It was a joke. Well, he's not on it.

Now he's on it, but he should have been originally on it. Like, he had a far better season than LeBron. and whatever the reason was that he wasn't voted for, like he's had an unbelievable season. And again, like I said, if you look at totality at the Kauai era with the clippers, like you said, Brian, the fact that he's doing this now

as the team has been dismantled around him and he's healthy and playing like this, it is a fitting end to the way this whole thing has played out from start to finish. I mean, he was absolutely dismalade. destroying the wolves today. Destroying them. He's destroying everybody.

I mean, listen, we'll get to the wolves. Let's circle back to this. Anyway, you're right. We've gotten a feel from the calves. Look, in this game, first game, I'm obviously really interested to see how this Cavs Nuggets game

goes Monday night. That's going to be a really interesting test for this new look group, Northern Mowbly, so one key piece missing. And obviously the Nuggets are missing. No, the Nuggets are missing. No, the Nuggets are missing for sure.

But, you could see in this first game. James Hardin is just flat out better right now, especially, and probably for this season, than Darius Carlin. And they're clearly going to be a better team with James Hardin. Now, is that going to translate into the kind of run the playoffs they need? We'll see. Does it move the needle?

Well, I mean, I think it moves the needle. I certainly enjoyed Daryl's line. And like I said, I'm praying for those two teams to play in the first round. but yeah, like, it was immediately apparent why it was the right move for the calves to make and why it was the right risk for them to take with what they have at stake this summer and try to get Donovan to extend.

And James is going to get him shots and he can hold up better defensively than Darius, not that he's great on defense. He certainly is not, but he's at least a big body who can bang on people. And even towards the end of that game the other night, he was guarded tomorrow, some, you know, it's clearly made them better,

and now we'll just have to wait and see how much better. It's made them better. And, you know, listen, if Donovan is, Donovan is obviously happy with it. If he's happy enough to where he extends, then that's the whole purpose of this. I just think that's interesting because it makes them better now and next year,

but like James is going to be in his late 30s. and so you're extending to play with who? Well, I don't want to put, I shouldn't put words to Kevin Belton's mouth, but I will relay a conversation he and I had a couple weeks ago that I think is illustrative of why it might not have been a bad move, where we were talking about possible Darius Garland trades, different places. And he asked me, are we sure Darius Garland is not a toxic contract at this point? Because of the, and not from a talent perspective,

obviously, but for all of these toe and foot injuries he's had. Now, hopefully Darius Garland comes back. He's supposed to be back in the next couple weeks. Hopefully he can come back and can just play. But I was at the game in Philly when he got hurt last and he barely did anything

and then he's been out for a month. So, you know, that I think is a real question. Like if he can't stay on the court, then while he's a super talented player and the calves don't have a ton of draft assets, That's like the fact that they could just swap him out for James Hardin,

it might be as good as they were really going to have any chance of doing in a deal with him in the next couple of years if he can't stay healthy. And that's obviously something we, as we sit here right now on February 9th, we can't say for sure what that's going to look like. It's too bad about the Vitsy and Zubach hurting his ankle. Well, our debate about whether the Pacers were going to go for one or 10 the other day on the pod, that immediately went away. When I saw Rick Carlisle, I'll say,

like, yeah, you know, Zoo's got this ankle, it's going to have to get it looked at. I was like, oh. Been lingering, been lingering for weeks. He played 15 of the previous 16 games. Yeah. And then he had to go away because he became a father.

Congrats to him and his wife. I will say this one. It's going to be a long, too much in the NBA. Listen, I think, I told you guys, I think the Pacers should be progressive and give Zubots the rest of the season all for paternity leave. That would be amazing.

like supportive of the family. FMLA. I will say that when my son was born, you know, I was in the delivery room and they, you know, you're in all the scrubs and they give you the booties to put over your shoes. You know, you're in the operating room.

Where are we going with this story? My son was born and they said, you want to take him back to the hospital room, from the delivery room to the hospital, back to the room. So I'm carrying my newborn son. He's, you know, 11 minutes old. old or whatever. And these booties are slick as hell. Oh, no. And I'm walking on a solnolium floor. And I'm walking

like my late grandfather used to walk on ice. I'm walking, you know, six inches at a time. And I'm thinking like, what if, what if, you know, what if he went down? Like, what if he slipped like did the booties on? He slipped. And he suffered, you know, an ankle injury. Like, it could have happened. No, it's just, he's been playing, you know, he's not quite right. Want to make sure he's 100% before you reports the training camp next year. Oh, God. I didn't think that's where you go at that.

Oh, my God. They almost killed me. I was genuinely fearful. It was like the most stressful moment of that day was that like 30 yards I had to walk down the hall with the newborn and in those booties. I thought it was a really, I think it's a real hazard. I think they should take a series look at it. And I'm not as likely nimble. Anyway, I keep getting distracted by the Clippers.

Bontence, I got to say, all your theories, that was, you have some good ones. The Pace was trying to be, the Pace was trying to be 10th was not a good theory. I just thought it was an interesting thought exercise, and I asked some people about it, and I did get different answers on it, but the answer was given when Rick Carlisle declared that Sue needs to rest his ankle. Not really for the record, I would say off the record. I did ask the Pacers about that concept. They said, hell no. No, no.

Dude, we've tried to get four. We've put a lot of working to being this bad. We're not going to give up on it now that, you know, we're all roughly there. Oh, I'm sorry. It's like I said, it's going to be a really, really, really long two months. I mean, listen, and the league's got to figure something out. this is like tank of pluse is a It's too late

Well for this year I know they got to figure something I'm moving forward I would say the plan That has been proposed by somebody we all know To the league To To have wins count At some point in the season

Yeah Like imagine if this year Wins counted the rest of the way And you had Would feel a lot better Well if you had the jazz trading for Jaron Jackson Jr.

You had the Clippers training for or trading you know, you had the Pacers getting Evita Zubach. You had the wizards getting Anthony Davis. Like you,

you would have some of these teams like really being entertained. Like the Jazz could have just won three games in a row and very creatively made sure they didn't win them. Like, they could really rip off a bunch of wins.

Like, obviously all these different things have some sort of like unintended consequence of it. But to me, the more I've thought about this, that is to solve that fixes the most problems for me. I would agree.

It's the fewest. Where you have this final third of the season where teams are trying to get in the playoffs and all this stuff is going on. And we now have literally a third of the league punting games. Like, that's just not, that can't be

the best path forward. And obviously this is a particularly good draft, but I don't know. You mentioned the Wizards. Will Dawkins, their GM, talked to the media there. And he indicated that they do plan on having AD in the fold at some point this season. But you remember the press release to Maverick sent out when AD avoided surgery that said he will be healed in six weeks. Yeah.

It didn't say, I think it was like six to ten weeks. Yeah. He's like, no, it wasn't six weeks. It was ten weeks. Six to ten. And by the way, they sent him back to Dallas. Thanks for coming to D.C. We'll see you in four to six weeks.

I appreciate you taking some pictures for our social media. Off you go. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Like, if you look at the standings, we're going to talk about the Hornets in a minute. The Hornets have 25 wins. Okay. The teams behind them are the Bulls, the Bucks.

So the Hornets are in 10th. the teams behind them are the bulls, the bucks, the nets, the wizards, and the Pacers. Now, I don't know about the bucks. I don't know what the bucks are doing. Because allegedly, Giannis is coming back. And they signed Cam Thomas today, which I don't know that it helps them win, but it's a move designed to help them win. Okay. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

Here's my question. Okay. The Hornets have 25 wins. The Bulls have 24, the Bucks have 21. Now, I'm not even going to get into the Nets Wizards. How many more wins do you think the Hornets actually need to stay in the plan? To stay in the plan? No, not no.

Five. Well, listen, here's the thing. Real talk. Just real talk. What is the, we're going to do this. Well, Jackson, maybe you can remember this later on. The Hornets have 25 wins. How many wins will 10th place have?

I think at least 30. I mean, wins, well, 11th place has, what you want to say. Okay, 11th place, yeah. The Bulls have 24 now. Low to mid-30s. Maybe. I'll take a low. Listen, listen, listen.

The Bulls, for example, are playing the Nets on Monday. Guess who's not playing for the Nets, Michael Porter Jr. Like, there's a whole lot of games. Right. These teams are playing each other. You're right. You're right. Okay, that's a flaw in my theory. Right.

Yeah. So, like, now, the better question is, how many teams are. going to get to, how many of these teams at the bottom are not going to get to 25 wins? There might be like seven. Honestly, though. To get to that many. My head hurt. We talk about the bad, we're talking about the bad teams too much.

I know. I'm sorry. Yeah, but hey, the Hornets aren't a bad team anymore. That's fun. That's correct. So they have a good game on Monday. First off, they've won nine in a row, which they hadn't won nine in a row, which they hadn't won nine in a row in like 25 years.

I think the PS2 had come out the last time they won a year in a row. There's only two guys on their roster who were alive the last time they had a winning straight this long. Tim, I wasn't making it, Tim, I wasn't making a joke. I think literally I saw a graphic of the show. I'm going to look it up. Literally the last time they won that many games in a row. It was like when the PS2 came out.

It was 2000 and it was three, but then they waived Pat Connotton and then it went down to two. So there's two guys on their roster who were only alive the last time they had won this many in a row. Right. When they won eight, when they won, right. It was their longest winning streak in December of 1999, which by the way was the first iteration of the team before it got moved to New Orleans and an expansion team get back. That's a long ago. Yeah, but who was on that?

Is that Baron Davis? Like, is that a Baron Davis lead team? I don't even know if he was there yet. I believe that was a Baron Davis team. What year was it? 1999. 99, 2000. 99,000. Let's see.

Yeah, so it's a Baron Davis team. This is rookie year. I mean, it's crazy that it had been that long. Crazy. And so they are really, you know, so they're in 10th place right now. They're a half game back of Atlanta for 9th who they just beat. Don't we think they're going to make the playoffs? Yeah, well, see what I'm saying.

So with this starting lineup, there's something like 15. and one. So they started the season four and 14. They had a bunch of injuries. Obviously, Brandon Miller was the biggest one, but they had a bunch of injuries. Well, listen, real talk, again, to go back to real talk, real talk was they were supposed to be bad one more year. Like, the goal was to have this young corp, get some minutes together, have Brandon Miller and Lamello Ball and Conn Cuncle, finally, you know, Khan is obviously a rookie, have those guys play together, get some time on the court, get another high chance at a high pick and a loaded draft, and then next year, like, you know, like these other teams, really take a step forward.

And then they had the best month by point differential ever. Right. And so my point is they're masquerading as a 10th place team. They're not really a 10th place team. No, they're, I think they're going to end up coming out of the play. And now, you know, Lamello's previous two playin experiences did not go well. got blown out in both, but this is a much better team. Look, and it's not like the mellows just going bonkers.

Like, you know, he's shooting less than 40% from the floor during his streak. I think he's playing the most solid basketball of his career. But this is being driven by Brandon Miller and Concanipal. And honestly, Musa Diabate's energy and like all the stuff, yeah, the moose, baby, all the stuff he's doing. Miles Bridges, who, you know, there's. a lot before they got on the streak, I thought Miles Bridges was going to be traded. He's been playing well.

Well, I think at one point, we would have said, when they were four and 14, we would have said, well, this team is, you know, they're going to be a seller. They ended up as a buyer. And during the streak, they've got the fifth best defense in the league. Like, you look at them and they play super fast, and they hoist, and you say,

okay, this kind of team, they're defending right now. Well, yeah, I mean, that starting, that starting lineup is now up to 230 minutes. It's plus 30 per 100 possessions. And among all the lineups in the league, it's played what? It's like in the top 10 in minutes played,

five, six, it's like ninth overall in minutes played and it's plus 30. I think most used lineup in the whole league. That's crazy. They are masquerading. Not plus 30 on the season. Plus 30 per 100 possessions. They are not a 10th place.

Offensive rating of 139. And they're defending right now. Yeah, the defensive rating of 109. So something interesting, though, did happen. So instead of being a seller at the deadline, they go to be a buyer and they trade for Kobe White, who I think will fit in beautifully there because the style of play that they play is how he wants to play.

Yeah, perfect third guard to play with them. Yes. And he's from there, too. Yes, he's from, he's not from Charlotte. He's from Carolina. He's from Carolina. Went to Carolina. How about, by the way, how about that shot Carolina hit on Duke?

I don't follow college basketball, but holy Moses, what a shot. It's pretty good. And I will say this, like, when you see the, one of the things I noticed, and I, and I apologize, I'm, I'm ignorant to maybe this is something the people in, in Carolina will be like, yes, you dope. This is, of course, the way it is. the entire arena is all Carolina fans. Like there was no Duke section. Like there's like when you when you see that shot because there's a couple of great replays where you can see the entire Dean Dome. There is no Duke blue in that building.

Every single person is wearing Carolina blue. It was it was a great shot. Anyway, so here's what happened with Kobe White. So they trade for Kobe White. And from what I am told, they did the deal on Tuesday. And one of the reasons they did the deal on Tuesday was because after last year, when they had the Mark Williams deal with the Lakers undone, after the deadline, if you remember, the deadline was already over.

So they couldn't amend it. They couldn't amend it. They couldn't like, you know, toss in an extra second round pick. And, you know, they wanted that first round pick and that pick swap from the Lakers. They ended up trading Mark Williams for, I guess they'd guess they'd get. Got two first for him, but one of them was like a late pick. It was a 29th pick in this year's draft was Liam. Liam McNeely.

Yeah. So anyway, this year they did the, they purposely did the deal like to allow for time to get the physical done. They do the physical. And they discover that Kobe White has a calf injury. And he had a calf injury earlier this year, but to the other leg. This was a new calf injury that I don't know. I don't think he's given an interview at maybe his calf was a little sore, but they identified that he's got a calf injury. And they call the Bulls and they go, listen, man, like this is this issue. And so the Bulls give, agree to amend the deal and they give back a second round pick.

And Kobe's going to miss a while now with this injury too. Yeah. And so I was talking to this scout. And he says to me, this is talk about irony. You got all these teams that are trading for guys who. they don't want to play. Like, Geron Jackson Jr., Jared Jackson Jr.'s first game, he scored 25 points or 23 points to 25 minutes for the Jazz,

benched for the fourth quarter. By the way, Marketing that night scored 27 points to 27 minutes. Guess who was sitting next to Jaron Jackson for the whole fourth quarter of them. They wanted to give them time to get to know each other. They go down on the end of bench

and chit-jack. Beautiful team. Also, as they were blowing, like I think it was a 15 or 17-point lead, they blew through an entire 17-point lead on the road. and Will Hardy did not call a time out. So,

Jared Jackson, you know, they're going to do some load management stuff. Zubotch, they said, get that ankle, put that ankle up. Anthony Davis has been sent back to Dallas. I mean, Trey Young is working on his retro jersey collection. Right.

Well, all this is happening. Meanwhile, the team that actually was like, we're buying, we're on a run. We want this guy. They discover an injury. They didn't know. Yeah. Like, some of these teams are like, damn, how come we, how come you guys didn't discover an injury we didn't know?

But we could have gotten some, a draft pick back. Exactly. And we could have had something to put on the injury report. But anyway, yeah. So hopefully Kobe, you know, is going to be all right. And he'll add to the team. But, uh, Balthea Bontemps, the, the pistons on Friday, absolutely. Now, the Knicks were missing two starters or, Carl Towns didn't play.

Talk about the guys the Knicks are missing. Don't talk about the guys the Knicks are missing. All right. Let me just read you Jalen Brunson's stat line in this game against the Pistons on Friday night. 12 points minus 24 in 31 minutes. And it gets worse from there. Four for 20 from the field, 0 for 8 from 3. That, my friends, is a very atypical Jalen Brunson line.

and while I have concerns about Osar Thompson in his offensive game and whether he could be a true building block for a team because of his offensive game his defense is legit and his defense against Jalen Brunson was legit

and you saw Jalen Brunson on Sunday on our air against the Celtics another good defensive team get right back to looking like Jalen Brunson and he was awesome and the Knicks had a great win and yes they didn't have Carl Towns and yes they didn't have O'GN and Obie but I don't think that would have done a lot of difference in that specific game with the Star Topson.

I think the Pistons have outscored the Knicks by 60 points in their games this year. Yeah, the Pistons were also coming off a pretty embarrassing performance the previous night, I believe, right? When they let the Wizards beat them. Yes. The Wizards were very upset about that. Yeah, seriously. But, I mean, who would have thought Pistons Hornets would be like a circlet on the counter? It's a big, it's a big game.

I mean, listen, at this point, it might be a first round preview. Listen, here's the crazy thing. The Hornets right now are five and a half games out of sixth. Like, it's not inconceivable the way they're playing that they get out of the play. Of course not. Their record is 25 and 28, but that's not who they are. No. You always say it was a Parcells, you are what your record says you are.

That's true almost all the time. In this case, it's not true. Yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable how well they're playing and how impressive they've been. And I do think Kobe will help a lot. And yeah, it easily could be a first round playoff series. And it's... Only if the pistons fall back, because I don't think the hornets are going to be eighth.

They're going to be higher. They might be. But it's going to be super fun to watch. And it's, you know, this Piston season has been awesome. I continue to be a little skeptical about them in the playoffs because their lack of additional scoring outside of Cade. Some of this other stuff that I'm curious about when they get in the playoffs, if they can get squared up on by another team.

But, you know, like you said, Brian, these two games against the Knicks, they've absolutely curbs stopped them. And they've played Boston well, and they've obviously had an incredible season. And, you know, maybe they are just going to, be the team that bucks the trends of, you know, age and experience in the playoffs. You guys know the last time the Hornets made the playoffs? And the last time they made the playoffs?

I know they lost to the heat in 2016 and seven games. Just so you know it was before the existence of the play in. Right. Yeah. Because they lost that seven game series of the heat. Is that the last time? That's correct. 2016?

Yep. Yeah. Not quite Sacramento level, but. I did a piece on the tanking situation in the league that is on ESPN.com Monday. And by the way, I don't read comments. I leave Jackson to do that. I literally have not looked at a Twitter mention or X mentioned this decade. I'm not even kidding.

So I don't see. But people got to me, like people found my email and text me trying to suggest. What are you doing? I was just making fun of your hand motions. Oh, sorry. It's all good. People got to me to suggest names for the flip concept, which I wrote about on Monday. You have something you like?

Like seven, you know, again, there's probably a lot more, but six or seven people got to me, six, seven. And like three or four of them said slingshot. I like slingshot. They said they slingshot. The problem with the slingshot is that it's got to be like down and up. And these teams are just in doubt. The idea is you should go back and then you pull it back. I understand, but they've been pulled back for years.

That's the only part of it. I'd like to show you exactly how. I want to show you're exactly how a slingshot works. What did you say? I was doing some stand-up comedy today. I was very late on East Coast. Well, I think I told you guys. We know the

The hotel that McMahon's in right now I was just there for 12 straight nights. The Grammy's last Sunday night. There was quite a show on display in that lobby. Just say plastic surgeons are going to Hawaii. So Slingshot was one of them. Several people said Slinghot.

Boomerang, which I didn't like because that implies you're in the same spot. You know, they're not really in the same spot. There was a few others, so I appreciate people reaching out to me. Having said that, I wrote this story and I called it the flip. I've branded it at the flip. It could be, you know, it could be, I could have a bit better nickname, but I've committed to the flip now. I've committed to it.

You're all in, huh? I'm all in on the flip. Anyway, so the Knicks totally get embarrassed on Friday in Detroit. I think Jay was Jalen Brunson, one of his worst shooting games as a Nick, if not the worst. And by the way, Assar Thompson was all over that scenario. I think he only had like four points in the game, but he was like the most important player on the floor. So then the Knicks go to Boston on Sunday. Carl Towns

comes back. O.G. I don't know, he was still out. And they were awesome in this game. And it was a game that had some stakes. You know, the Celtics were a game ahead of them for second. and they were one one in the season series. And the Knicks are, as you know, are a below 500 road team. And so not only does that matter later on, but like you're going into Boston. And so, you know, you win that game and you put yourself in really much better position for winning the tiebreaker, considering the last game is the last week of the season in New York.

And Boston had been playing pretty well. and the Knicks looked great. And there was this moment in the first half. So no Jianobo, Ganobe, so the pressure is on Mikhail Bridges. He was going to get heavy, you know, assignment on Jalen Brown. And at one point in the first half, Jalen tries to back Bridges down. Bridges challenges him and stops him and forces him to take a turnaround. He still could.

It was still a decent shot, but he missed. He missed it. They go down to the other end and Bridges post Jalen Brown up. And the only thing I can think of is I'm watching this is I'm thinking, you know, some people heard about Jalen Brown announcing himself as the best two-way player in the league, which is a fair. Like he's, I don't think he's outrageous there.

He's got a reasonable case for that. So Bridges is calling for the ball. Jalen, get me the freaking ball. So Jalen gives it to him. He looks over his shoulder, turns around, knocks down this like 12 footer with, uh,

right in Jalen's eye. and points at them, points right at them, you know, like, all right, Mr. Two-way. And, I mean, that was the way the Knicks approached this entire game. They looked awesome. Defensively were great. I don't Boston's crack a hundred. And Bon Tamps, I'm just thinking to myself, it just underscores. I have no idea what's going to happen in the Eastern Conference.

Yeah, but saying all season, I begin to ask since October, who's going to win the East? and I just keep saying I have absolutely no idea. And, you know, like today's game, the Celtics shot 7 for 41 from 3. Yeah, that's not going to good though. About 18 of them were wide open, and they just whipped them. But the Knicks played very well.

Jane was back to normal. And, yeah, like these playoffs, like you could make a case for Detroit. You could make a case for Boston, especially if Jason Tatum comes back, which I'm still thinking he will at some point, though it's not certain. You could certainly make a case for the Knicks. You can make a case for Cavs Corner.

If Philly is healthy, I think from a ceiling perspective, you could make a case for them. That's already five teams. Charlotte Hornets. Chornets plus 30 per 100. Sure, why not? We've branded them on NBA today. We've branded them the Buzz City Killers. Okay.

I like that. That's a good one. But, like, it's, it is, it is remarkable. Like, I, I can't remember a conference that was actually this wide open. Well, it's one thing, it's one, and I, we're insulting. I feel like the Pistons fans are like, why are you insulting us? But it's one thing if you're like, okay, well, these are the favorites and these are the contenders. I can't differentiate them at all.

Look, in Detroit, the reason the Pistons can't be put up above everybody, yet is because basically it's basically unprecedented to go from never winning anything in the playoffs to winning three series in a year. Like for all the key guys on this

on this Pistons team of Kate Cunningham, Assar Thompson, Jalen Duren, Isaiah Stewart, like really other than Tobias Harris and now I guess Kevin Hutter and Duncan Robinson like all like veteran role players who've had runs to the second rounder in herder's case, went to the conference finals.

Obviously, Duncan's been to the finals. Their young key players have one playoff series under their belt that they lost in six games, and I think they didn't win a home game in it. So, like, it's hard to go from that to then speed all the way to win three rounds in a row. Now, I think I'm working out of peace with Vinny for Wednesday on how wide open the east is,

so he gets credit for this. We call him Vince Goodwill on this podcast. Vince. We've known him as Vinnie for like 20 years, but he was by Vince now. He, I believe, he had the Penny Shack Magic as like the only comparable team

in terms of like shedding up the standings. I don't know what they did the year before. But like that, it's, you can kind of one hand. Talk about the ultimate flip. The Celtics in 2007,

Nate. Like that's your... But that... No, no, no, no. That's a little different when you're bringing in. That's getting three veteran... I understand. I mean, in their prime star players. It's not a home...

It's not a bunch of kids who have never been deep in the playoffs before. I mean, it's the same argument against the Spurs in the West, but the Spurs don't have any taste with this group of playoff experience. Right. Either way, how about Steph Castle on a... 40-something point triple-double? One, if you're going to... back, if you go back two years ago, like a good analog, I think, for this, this Pistons team in a lot of ways is the 23, 24 Thunder, who went from sort of the same position the Pistons were in last year. Breakfast.

Basically the same position the Pistons were in this year. They won 56 games. They run, I think, a three-way tie for first in the West. They go into that series with Dallas, which had some more experience. and easily could have won that series was a really tight six-game series but the Mavericks won it and like if you tell me that the Pistons have a really hard fought second round series

against Boston or New York or Cleveland or one of these teams and they lose like that I don't think that would be seen that shouldn't be seen as some massive disappointment given where they are in their life cycle But, you know, this is just an unprecedented situation all the way around.

The, yeah, I would, I would, I don't know where, uh, now if Jackson has the odds. Does he have to put the odds up? Oh, Jackson has, um, Magic lost the first round 30 and 93, 94 to the Pacers. And they won 57, then they won 50. And they won 50, 50, then 57 and made the finals. And they got swept. And then Jack said, I'm out. Sad.

Okay, so we'll keep an eye on the Eastern Conference. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Let's circle back around to where we started. We mentioned the wolves. So the wolves have had a very up and down season. They've had stretches where they've looked like they've really got a challenge. They've had other stretches where they've looked great. They've beaten Oklahoma City a few times.

Then Friday night, they played the pelicans at home. And the pelicans were down in that by 18 points, I think. And the other thing that happened is, like, not secretly, the Timberwolves tried to trade for Janice Tena Kumpo. Yeah. And while it didn't leak who their offer was, or there was some of it, but, you know, the players understand that it's not going to be aunt.

Well, and it's going to be several of them. Yes. You know, just like last two. They have no draft picks. They have no draft picks. So it had to be most of their good players that could even have a chance to get a deal done. Well, other players might have been offered for draft picks as well. And this is the second straight year this has happened.

Last year was for Kevin Durant. So. Right. So, you know, actions over words like, you know, whatever Tim Connolly might say about his faith in the team. And like, you know, I don't blame for trying to get Janus. Like, Janus and Aunt would be, I mean, like, I'm not even, I'm just saying, like, you know. So it's something that the players know is happening and is hard to just block out.

Like, it's, you know, be a pro. Okay. Like, easy to say, hard to do. Yeah. Yep. So Friday night, they give up a big lead and lose to the Pelicans. Zion was very good in that game. And Rudy Gober after the game.

Peppers, the Hill. side. Did what Rudy does. Rudy, Rudy does. Rudy is known to have moments in the media like this after bad losses. He, so he said, well, he used to say this about Donovan Mitchell, right? Didn't he, McMahon? Yeah, this is very similar to stuff that was a factor in the friction between

Donovan and Rudy for sure. He basically said, you know, I don't have the quotes right in front of me, but. I'm looking, I'm going to, okay, I'm going to give you the quote. Go ahead. Go ahead. Going up right here. at some point, if the players don't have accountability, someone has to have accountability for the players.

That's a shot. It's head coach. Should we agree on that? I'm on straight effort. I'm just talking straight effort. I'm not even getting to the basketball side of things. Like, mistakes are part of the game, but the effort for me,

the effort to me for a team that wants to play for a championship, it's unacceptable. And then he said, it's not an easy position for a coach to take guys out of the game without directly naming any players. It's not something that you want to do, but I think if the players don't show any effort at some point, no matter how talented we are as a team, if you don't have that, you just can't be a winning team. So, so, all right. So he took a shot.

He's calling out bench for not for not benching Ant and Randall. That's correct. He didn't say Aunt and Randall, but let's just say the writers, John Krasinski from the athletic. and Chris Hine from the Star Tribune and Anne Dane Moore covers a team. They all believe that it was Ant and Randall. And if you watch the game... It's not hard to figure out what he's talking about. If you watched the game, I would not say that Aunt and Randall were leaving the league in defensive activity.

No, correct. I've said that there was multiple times where Zion ate Gober alive. Now, that's not the greatest matchup for Rudy, but he's Mr. Hall of Fame defensive player. By the way, when we ran these comments today on Countdown, because they were on national, they were on ESPN today, Michael Malone said, well, nobody cares about what Rudy Gobert thinks anyway. I knew he was going to say it. Malika didn't know.

So, like, I had my popcorn over there when that came up. And Malika, I guess, didn't hear him say it beforehand. And he actually said it, Malika's head snapped around. I mean, she was like, what? That's a little harsh. So then Chris Finch comes out on Saturday and says, I addressed it, and you don't substitute your way to meaningful accomplishment. I handle all my conversations with ourselves in house. Disappointing he felt the need to go outside. Nonetheless, that's been addressed already today. There's never been a team that's won anything meaningful that substituted their way there. So what that's what he's saying there is, you know, I'm not taking Aunt Edwards out.

I'm not, you know, we're not fixing this by me taking Ann Edwards out when this is an assignment. Right. And that's my job anyway, bro. And like, I think Rudy means well, but he just really has a clumsy way of pissing off everybody around him at times. And again, he did it in Utah. He's done at Minnesota.

This is a case where, and, you know, the other thing, like, honestly, in this, look, the go-ahead and one was Zion finishing over Rudy. And so this is a case where it's like Rudy's pointing fingers and there's no thumb. Let's move past the Rudy comments, though, because I think it sort of subtracts from what the real issue is, which is this team has just wildly underperformed for most of the season. They have repeatedly had just absolutely.

Horrific losses. Like, that loss of the Pelicans was terrible. They got obliterated on New Year's Eve by the Hawks. They lost to the Nets. They lost to the Bulls. They lost to the Jazz. They got blown out today on their home court. They got blown out today by the Clippers with half their team.

They lost that game where they were up seven points with 45 seconds to go in Phoenix and imploded and lost that game. Like, they've just had, they've had six or six or. seven or eight just catastrophic losses this season. And even if they had four of those games back, you're talking about a team that is pushing for second or third in the West. And instead, they're sixth. But like in a classic case, they go into Toronto last week.

And they, before this New Orleans game, they go into Toronto and they win. And they hadn't won in Toronto since like 2000. and aunt says, we ain't one here since Bruce Lee died, which is this man is a treasure. He actually, he also had a dunk today

that was among the two or three best days of the season. Incredible. I mean, this guy's a treasure. Having said that, I would not say that their team, you know, you have that horrible loss and the clippers are coming in.

You know, I was expecting them to have a big bounce back. But this is who, the wolves are. The wolves are a high-ceiling, erratic team. Last year, at the end of February, they were only three games above 500. They got it rolling in the last month and a half the regular season and ended up going to the conference finals. They got it together. Last year was not a smooth year whatsoever for them. You know, and look, like there was the, the, uh, their trip to Toronto last year where Gobert and Randall basically got into it on the floor. When, you know, when Rudy had the, the,

three seconds because Randall wouldn't pass to the ball. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, they were, you know, and then Rudy had another bad moment where he was still, I forgot exactly what happened,

but he had, like, he carried over to the defense possession. Anyways, my point is, like, we shouldn't be surprised that the wolves have funks or that the wolves have duds. This is the team that they are. They did.

They have a very high ceiling and they managed to get it together at the right time last year. We'll see if that happens now. But, you know, right now, they're, you know, they're, they look like a first round exit. Well, and I remind everybody they used Mike Conley's salary and a pick swap that could be eight to ten spots in the draft to save a lot of money. And they could have got better. Well, they went out and got I.O. After they used Mike Conley's money and a pretty decent pick swap to save a lot of money. They could have used that contract to get another player with I.O.

You don't think this could use another good player? The wolves are going to be pinching pennies. That's just the fact. And they are pinching pennies. That was a wild move to do that. They've done it on the business side. They, you know, this is an obvious cost-cutting thing that you're talking about there. But, yeah, I don't know, ma'am.

Well, these two games, the Pelicans and Clippers, were the first two games of a six-game homestand. This is supposed to be a time where they're pivoting, not, like, worried about dropping into the play-in. It's a big couple months for the wolves. That's what I would say. It's a big couple months for the wolves. Well, they play the Hawks on Monday night.

I'm looking at their schedule last year. you know, mid to late, no, so they lose six out of eight games to end February last year, including a loss to the jazz on the last day of the month. Their two wins during that stretch were over the thunder. That's kind of the epitome of the wolves. Like, they can play with anybody when they're right, and then they can just go in these funks and lose to anybody. and, you know, it's a hard way to go about it.

Well, it's not a long-term sustainable way to go about it is what it is. Yeah. It's just not. So, again, honestly, I think it's a big couple months for the world's to show what kind of team they are. And Ant has a reputation for being an elite two-way player, and obviously he is a superstar. He's one of the best offense players in the league. He has the reputation because he is capable of being a dominant defender. he does not choose to be that often these days. He's, he can super duper lockdown.

He is built to be amazing on defense because he's got super long arms, incredible quickness. And when he wants to, like he, you know, one of the things that's hard to do on defense is to get low. He gets low so well. It's very hard to do that. And it's strong as hell. Now, I will say that,

that is carrying a massive burden offensively and has to handle, he's their point guard. He has to handle more ball handling than ever. So, you know, 82 games a year, it's a hard-ass guy to carry that kind of burden offensively. There was some possessions in this game today where they were just complete wet noodle offensively. I mean, they're, you know, I don't like the word, I don't like the word engaged. I don't like fans and sometimes media, like watch players, and they go, oh, that player is not engaged. Yeah. Because I think, you know, it's, now you're reading into what's going on in their head.

But if you elected to say that word about today's game, I would have had a hard time debating that. Particularly troubles them coming off the last couple days. They look disconnected. They play the hawks on Monday. So, all right. I think we covered everything. We did. Okay, thank you for staying up late.

Thank you to Jackson and Devon for putting it together. Thank you to McMahon and Bontems. We'll be talking to you later this week. Adios amigos.