Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - 🚨EMERGENCY POD🚨 Celtics Trade Jaylen Brown To 76ers In A Shocking Move

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Bobby Marks to react to a shocking blockbuster deal sending Jaylen Brown to the 76ers and Paul George & draft assets to the Celtics. The guys break down why Boston would make this move, how this is a big win for the 76ers and why this move has stunned the rest of the league. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm sorry. Joining me from Los Angeles out here in Los Angeles is front office insider Bobby Marks. Well, I've changed my location. Now I've got some scenery behind me with this plant, which I believe is not real. I believe you're right. I'm just happy I got Wi-Fi down here. I'm like in the Pentagon. I'm like in the bunker down here.

All right. Join us from Dallas, Texas. the new home of Santi Aldama. That's why we're here, Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. I think there are some Celtics fans who are hoping that Shams' tweet wasn't real. But indeed, it was. Okay. So Jalen Brown gets traded to the 76ers for Paul George, two first round picks, one of which is convoluted, which I'm going to hope Bobby is going to explain to us in a second. That's a stretch. And two second round picks.

What my phone blew up and what people are saying to me, Bobby, and this is the league speculation, it's not reporting, but I don't dispute it, is that this was a trade that was made under duress. That this was not a trade that you would make in a clinical setting. There's no deadline. Didn't have to do it by the end of July 1st. That you wouldn't do this trade under these circumstances if everything was equal, that something wasn't equal. We'll see what gets said about it.

But that's been the multiple P-person reaction from the executives. I was actually on the phone with a general manager who was driving. And I knew it was coming. I just didn't know the terms. And when I saw the terms, I read them to him, and he was shocked and said, I thank God, I'm at a stoplight. But Bobby, does this feel like a trade that was made under duress to you? Well, as my 20-year-old told me on Saturday afternoon,

and Jalen Brown had a conversation about analytics. Dad, sometimes you just got to put your phone down and walk out. out of the room. And why I say that is if you're the Celtic, sometimes you just got to walk away from the table and regroup and figure it out down the road eventually. And it's easy for me to say because there's probably some funky locker room dynamics here. But this was not the trade package I thought was going to be in place when you look at Jail and Brown. And I know every trade is different and every trade is done under different circumstances, right? Like people play, wait a minute,

the Jazz got two first and two swabs, and Orlando got this for Desmond Bain, but every trade is different here. And I think for Boston, you swap a 29-year-old for a 36-year-old who hasn't been able to stay on the court. And the money is not that different. I mean, it's one less year on Paul, George. But you're not, Jalen Brown's contract, I mean, it's a heavy contract, but he's the top 10 performer.

Yeah, the cell just got significant. Yeah, they got significantly worse in this trade. And look, Bobby, you made that reference to put the phone away. And let's just say what it was. Like, you may, you were trying to explain why Jalen Brown's value isn't what you would think for a guy who's coming off of finishing. in the MVP and a second team all-MBA selection and a couple years removed from a finals MVP. And you got the aggregators got you, which they took one sentence out of a detailed answer. And but I'll paraphrase it.

The simple fact is the analytic driven front offices believe that Jalen Brown is significantly overpaid and they don't value him nearly as much as listen to this, Jalen, the media does. to be just straight up, like the media is the one who votes on all those awards. And so, Wendy, as you're talking to this GM, I promise you one thing he didn't say is, we had a better offer on the table, right? No. So I don't think this GM was trying to trade for jail. And so it's not just to be clear.

And simply, I don't think many were. And that's, look, you can criticize the process, the approach that the Celtics took here, and you damn sure can criticize the results. But this was the best offer that they had on the table, and it wasn't for a lack of hunting, of searching, of looking. Now, why didn't they pile more on to their offer to try to get Janus? I believe what happened was they decided, we're trading Jalen Brown, and then they tried to get Janus,

and they got caught without contingency plans. And, you know, the one thing I'll be honest, about here, I don't understand why they took this offer now. Training camp doesn't start next week. Like, this seems to me to be an offer you take in like late August or September because you feel like, well, crap, we got to take the best thing on the table and there's not much good there. That's why I'm saying people think this was under duress. Like, get rid of him now. I mean, let me ask you this. But again, why get rid of him before this? season starts was one thing, but why now?

McMahon, you're asking good questions. I don't have the answers. I'm just telling you people are reading this as that. That may not be accurate. I'm not reporting that. I'm telling you what it looks like. I just got a text from it. We're talking about, we'll get into the pick in a minute, but I got a text from,

I'm asking around about the pick, you know, that went out, that we, I have no, my brain is fried, but I asked a buddy of mine, I said, what do you think about this pig? He goes, all I know is we asked about this a year ago, and the league said we couldn't do it. Well, the trade hasn't happened yet. Bobby, can you try to explain, like, what the pick is? So one is 2031 unprotected from Philly? What is this other one?

I'm talking about the first, obviously. Yeah, I know. I got to look up on here on the... Yeah, so it's a 31 unprotected first, 2028 first round pick that can convert from a first to a swap. that is more favorable to Boston. So in 28, they've got that clipper pick. Their own pick goes to,

their own pick goes to Brooklyn as part of the, that was part of the Hardin Trade. Brooklyn, maybe Phoenix, eventually, Brooklyn has it and it can convert and it's protected 1-8. So I'm thinking, it's got to be, it's got to be the clipper pick there.

Right. I wonder what the swap thing would be. You can swap to the other pick? If they keep their own pick and it's more favorable, I guess they could swap the bat. Was that? So I guess it's a way of maximizing the upside of the pick. Yeah. Okay.

I mean, it's still the fact, look. I'll tell you what, having dealt with Boston in 2013, I get PTSD on some of this crap that I see here, these swaps and all that stuff. It didn't work out good for me. That's fine, but that's fine. and the old Boston regime out in Salt Lake made a trade of their own trade today. And got more in return and less and no salary back. Bobby, let me ask you this.

Let's say that Paul George, let's just say Philly wanted to dump Paul George's salary. It's two years and 110 million, something like that. Let's just say, forget about Jalen Brown for him. Let's just say it became Philly's undying desire to get off of Paul George. Mm-hmm. Would it have cost?

A pick. It would have cost him an unprotected first. One? At least one. So did they get Jalen Brown for free? Essentially. I guess you got him maybe for a pick and a couple of seconds? Yeah, I mean, the market for the market for Paul George was not good.

He had an okay shooting season last year. And he was great. You know what? And I think what helped him. is that he was really good in the Boston series. I think what helped him is that the Celtics had nothing else that they could do that they could stop. And Jaylon's going to play them in the playoffs.

Like it's almost guaranteed. He, listen, when he sees the Celtics, brother, holy smokes, he is going to be breathing fire. If that's a playoffs, I mean, even like, you talk about one awkward tribute video Are you kidding? And again, this is a guy who, like, he did enough in a Celtics uniform to have his number hanging in the rafters. He was a finals MVP.

No, he's got to have his number in the rafters. He was a finals MVP. I just said that. He's got to. Yes. I wonder, look, things clearly got extraordinarily sideways between Jalen Brown and the power brokers in the Celtics organization. I'll just put it like that. Are you including Jason Tatum in there?

Because this is, I don't, I'm not saying Jason Tatum. Jason Tatum could have stopped this, don't you think? Well, no, yeah. And yes, I am including him. Now, I'm not saying, I don't know enough to say Jason Tatum push for the, like, I don't know that. No, that's not what I said. I know. I'm just, I'm just being, but like, yeah, if Jason Tatum throws himself in front of the train,

they're slamming on the brakes, wouldn't you think? So, yes. When I say the power brokers in the organization, and look, man, like how many years did you hear about Tatum and Brown, Tatum versus Brown, that whole thing? And then they won a championship together. But even during that series, Jason Kidd, it wasn't slick, but he tried to throw the stink bomb in the middle of the Celtics locker room when he just blurted out during the press conference. I think it was in between games one and two about, well, yeah, Jatham Brown's their best player. And so he was trying to kind of drag all that stuff up.

they win a championship and then it still goes haywire. But, you know, part of this is, part of this is just a simple fact that, like, Jalen Brown basically took a victory lap after they got bounced from the first round of the playoffs, talking about how much he loved this season. That didn't help matters. Look, I just know that the Celtics felt that even though Jalen Brown was talking about himself, himself for MVP or there was this MVP campaign for Jalen Brown.

The Celtics did not feel that Jalen had the best season on their team. And I don't mean Jason Tate. I'm talking about a, they felt that Derek White had a better season. Despite the fact he had a poor shooting season. I agree. They felt he impacted winning the most. And the statistics that people used to analyze. Yeah, on off and whatnot.

said that. Yeah. So I would just say like... The advanced stats, like Bobby said, they don't portray him as a... But this was not an analytic trade. This was not an analytic trade. Yeah. They may have wanted to trade him because of analytics, but this was not an analytic trade.

And I will just say that, you know, they signed Mitchell Robinson on Wednesday. Mitchell Robinson's signing was an analytical signing. Yeah. Boston's formulas and their stats really like Mitchell Robinson because in the playoff series two years ago, a central part of their game plan was to get him off the court. They felt he was as big of a three,

well, no, Jalen Brunson was the number one threat and Mitchell Robinson was in the top three. They were very focused on getting him off the court because of what he could do as far as extra possessions and things all of his rebounds and the way his gravity on offense enabled maybe not even him to get offensive rebounds, but the Knicks to get their offensive rebounds because you had to put two guys on him to keep him off the glass.

They treated him like a star, the way they defended him in that series, wanted him off the court. And their same strategy said, we got to go make our major free agent move to get Mitchell Robinson. So that same decision-making core led them to say,

we got to get rid of Jalen Brown. We got to get rid of him immediately. I mean, and listen, I do want to be fair to Jaylon Brown here. This is a dude who, for a decade, has played damn near every night, has played hard, has played on both ends of the floor, has put up numbers, has showed up in the playoffs, has been a playoff gamer, has, you know, the guy in a decade, you know, he's 83 and 59. in playoff games, including the championship run when he was conference finals MVP, when he was finals MVP. So, and that's why this is going to be,

I mean, this is going to be a PR nightmare in Boston. It just is because of who they trade him and because of what they got back. And there's just no way to spin it. Like you got significantly worse next season and just, limited long-term upside here. It's hard to spin. And I've done spinning, you know, in front offices and it's really hard. I mean, 36, Paul's 36, right?

Yeah, I think so. I think 36 for sent out a 29-year-old and a guy that's been hurt and... Yeah, he's everything that, everything that Jaylon Brown isn't. Paul George is. He, he, he's not durable. Or, well, I think I said that backwards. My point is, he's not durable. He doesn't have a track record of playing well in big games. He hasn't won at the highest levels. And he's, he's not in his prime anymore. Now, the thing they have in common is they're both very expensive. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. And yes, Paul George is 36. How about this, Bobby? Who got more?

The Celtics for this trade or the Utah Jazz for signing and trading Walker Kessler to the Lakers? That was two unprotected purse first and two unprotected pick swaps. And two seconds, I should kind of. I looked at our window here down in L.A., and I can see the Hollywood sign and I can see the age father-son combination. That was part of the deal, right?

As far as taking that off the thing, as far as that will come with the picks and everything, because they basically got, listen, they took advantage of a situation. And I understand it from the Lakers perspective that where they were, I mean, they were backed into a corner.

Like, like big time backed into a corner. They had to deliver a legit big. They had to deliver Luke a legit big. And they had to do it now because this was the window that they had to use cap space. And if it wasn't now, it was going to be, I mean,

we've gone through the centers on these rosters that are under contract. I know you talked to Daniel Gafford, but like there was no one out there where you're going to drop to first, right? I mean, what did they when I can't remember when they did the Mark Williams trade that got rescinded, what was that a first, a swap and connect as part of that, I think? That sounds right. So that, you know, they're, listen, I mean, it's half the price. I mean, it's a better player. they gave up more in this trade than they did for Luca at least a draft compensation

AD's not to say Paul George has been traded three times he got traded for Victor for Oladipo and de Montes Sabonis in Indiana he got traded for Shade Gillers Alexander how many first A thousand I mean that's kind of an asterisk put on that

because it was really the Kauai trade with Paul George attached, but yeah, still. Okay. Now you got traded for Jalen Brown. I mean, he should write a book. It's impressive. And the other thing that's just going to be impossible for the Celtics to spin is one of your bitter rivals got better. You delivered an all-MBA player to one of your bitter, the team that just knocked you out of the playoffs.

Just knocked you out of the playoffs. And by the way, our best player in that series, you can have them. Well, and here's the other thing, too, is that, like, when I, we've talked about the East and how much it's gotten better. Like, I looked at the, the, wrote the name, the teams down, like, and I said, like, I think Philly is outside of the plant, like, just based on where they were based on how everyone. And basically, this trade has given them, like, life again. Well, the Celtics are pushing are getting pushed back here. Yeah. Can I just say just in general?

I know it's free, you know, transaction season is technically only 24 hours old. How many teams have actually gotten better? Well, I was actually talking to somebody about this today. And the Sixers got better. The Raptors got better. Yeah. And then have any other playoff teams from last year improved? I mean, I'm sure the Suns believe they got better with Miles Bridges.

Yeah. I mean, you know, Kouard was a nice signing for them. I think they probably got better. I don't know by how much and I don't know that the price of the pick that they gave up was, well, I don't know anybody outside of being. I'm sure the heat fans are screaming.

What about us with the honest? I mean... I said playoff teams. Okay. Yeah, now they've gotten better enough to where they'll probably be a playoff team this year. So yeah, put the heat on the list. Like, look, I think the Bulls have gotten better

and I think they've actually done some smart things, but I don't think they're a playoff team. Maps have gotten better. I mean, just based on that trade. Yeah, the Sontel de Alma trade, especially look at it as an extension of the AD trade. Like, that's a good little piece of business. Like, I don't think the match are a playoff team next year. Maybe I'll be wrong, but as far as, like, the top-in teams, I think we're talking about Toronto got better.

Philly just got better. And I don't know that any other team that went to the playoffs last year, like I said, or any other team that won a playoff game last year. Let me just put it that way. So I don't have to do semantics crap on the suns. I don't know. Any team that won a playoff game last year that got better, aside the Toronto and Philly. The more texts I get, the worse it sounds.

It's a tough one. But again, all these people, this, like, when Luca got traded, we all got bombarded with texts and calls from people who were like, what the bleep, blah, blah, blah, blah. None of them knew Luca was on the block. Every other team knew Jaylon Brown was on the block. And they're right.

I'm just telling you. Like all the teams. Now, would Toronto have done what they gave up for Kauai for Janem Brown? I don't think they would have or Boston would have done it. Milwaukee turned them down. They couldn't get Portland interested. Like, I mean, this was not for a lack of effort. Again, I wonder why you do it now instead of just letting this thing linger.

And this is a last resort kind of kind of a. That's where we started this. I go back to the trade that has the appearance of a trade done under duress. How much duress can there be the first week of July? I agree with you, McMahon. I can't explain it. I'm telling you what it looks like. The rest to me is when you've got to get the team together.

You ain't doing it. I mean, what the hell? I haven't sit on opposite sides of the floor in Summer League. Who gives a crap? All right. Well. Also, like, I'm curious to hear. is he?

Hey, Boston's got a big role for him now. I mean, I think LeBron might go to Memphis before he goes to Boston. He hates Boston. He claims not to hate Memphis. He only hates the hotel, but he doesn't make such qualifications on Boston. How do you feel about that Memphis hotel? I don't have an opinion on it. I've never stayed there.

Oh. Hmm. I haven't either, just for the record. Yeah. Tyrese Maxie is in Philly. It's a clutch client. Hey, dude. Philly's interesting. I wonder if Philly tried to give him Embeddeed first. I would have demanded, I would have tried Embeddeed, yeah. Embed's the, I don't know.

Their eyes were on Mitch. They liked Mitch's analytical. better. Including games played. Had that advanced stat. Yeah. Man. Can't wait for this press conference.

I can't wait for Jatham Brown's next Twitch. I don't know. Someone's got to tell me, like, how do you get on that thing? Should I tweet out, analytics one, I test zero? Oh, no. Hey, if you do that, I'll let you get on a clue.

One of the best features on Twitter, there's a little button that you can go mute conversation. I found it over the weekend. You can also pull the old windy move, and I got to tell you, my discipline's not quite as good as Wendy's, but you don't have to look in those mentions, Bobby. I tell you what, you know, you know what, though?

You know what though? There's there's always that you sometimes just want a little pun you want to like punish yourself. Because you know to deal like I tell this to my I speak at like that a high school kids and I said and a college guys I meet with. I said if there are a hundred mentions in your in your comments and 99 are positive, right? And then there's just that one that just get and it just ruined your day. And it just like ruined your day. And I was like, I don't know why I just look. Take a peek at it and everything, but I do.

Don't let it ruin your day. You don't know that person. That's probably some pimple-faced dork. Who cares? By the way, how do you think Brad Stevens mentions look right about now? 2017 is the last time I looked at a mention. That's also known as three Paul George trades ago. I look forward to hearing more about this.

This concludes the emergency podcast. Thank you to Jackson and Tucker. Produced it. Thank you to Bobby for always being available. Thank you to McMahon. I'd like to please make a plea to LeBron James. Please just stay on the golf course over the weekend and let me have the weekend. Hey, I got inside information.

He ain't doing it when Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey get married coming up here. Oh, he'll be there. Is that the fourth? Is that the fourth? When they get married? I was not. That day is in the clear. So whatever you want to do, go out and spend that day and do whatever you want.

You won't have to worry about that day. Why? Because he's going to. No, because he's not going to, you think he wants it. He wants, when he does it, it's going to be. He might be going. He's, you know, him and, him and, oh, Kelsey, you know, a couple Northeast Ohio legends at the, I bet he's on that, I bet he's on that invite list. I will not be.

No, no discussion of Sandra Mamma Caleb Oh man, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you one thing. I'll give you a little tip. Colin Sexton? I don't get nervous on, I don't get nervous on TV at all. You know, like touch screen,

but, blah, blah, blah. He only gets nervous when he looks at his mentions. Yeah. But today, Hannah Storm, who's the best of the best, she gave us marching orders in our like production. She goes, you guys got to spell, you got to say that name right. like you have to pronounce it right and i was because yesterday we were joked you know i joked around

and rich you know whole thing and she said i'm gonna give you the spelling like laid out for you and i was like i was so nervous like the phonetic yeah the yeah i was you know and a touching sanjo and i got it out it was like it probably took me about 20 seconds seconds had to say it but i was like galley jeez like i was like so nervous about just saying his name That's why I'll call them Mamu, and everybody in LA will as well. Exactly. Thank you for listening and watching The Hoop Collective. God, I hope we're not talking to you until Friday.

We're doing another pod tomorrow. Adios amigos. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if.

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