Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - EMERGENCY POD: Giannis Traded To Heat In Blockbuster Deal With Bucks

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Bobby Marks to react to the blockbuster trade sending Giannis Antetokounmpo to the Miami Heat. The guys break down if the Bucks got the best deal they could, what this means for Miami moving forward and how this will impact the Celtics’ core this offseason. Plus, we tackle some other interesting moves including the Wolves trading Julius Randle to the Nets, Trae Young’s massive extension in Washington and the Mavericks hiring Dusty May from Michigan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Who Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, what you're doing in the middle of the night. And Giannis de Kumpo has been traded. And everyone here is very thrilled about doing it in the middle of night. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where it's earlier. And he doesn't have to get up for get up in a couple of minutes, is Band McMahon. Howdy, partners. I'm just chipper happy for the fine folks in Miami.

Glad that this, what seemingly was going to be a never-ending saga, has finally found it in. and, you know, Janus has a new home. Joining me from this same hotel here in Brooklyn, where we're here for the draft, which is in about 15 minutes, is our man, Bobby Mark, solo, Bobby. Good morning, everybody. I'm just giving a full disclosure,

three hours of live TV tomorrow, and I don't know how I will be physically around the pick 14, I would say. So just letting the viewers know that. Wait till that podcast tomorrow night after the draft. Just wait just wait till. We have that. All right.

So very early on Tuesday morning, late on Monday night, the Yanus Tena Kumpo Saga, Milwaukee, came to an end as there was an agreement for the bucks to trade him alongside Bobby Portis to the Miami Heat for Tadour Hero, Kelleleware, Jaime Hakez, Keparis, Kasparis, Yakuchunis. Three first round picks, which most importantly include the number 13 pick in the draft on Tuesday night. pick swap and a second rounder. Thank God that got that second rounder in there, Bobby. I think that was the only one they could trade. They only had one tradable second. They only had one tradable second. They squeezed them out of it. Did they have more than one tradable? They had more than one tradeable pick swap, right? Yeah, they did.

Oh, so they kept that out. There's some pocket lint still in there, then that's good. Yeah. So I think what's relevant, Bobby, is that the, the Bucks had an offer. from the Celtics, including Jalen Brown, and multiple other assets. I think it was multiple other first round picks, including the 27th pick in the draft on Tuesday. The Bucks, I think, after having a lot of conversation and thought about it, because these two, there was multiple other offers for Janus, but these were the two that they had

focused on for a period of days. Bobby, they had to choose one, and they probably had a lot of discussion to choose this one. Before we talk about what the honest means in Miami, why do you think the Bucks ultimately chose the Miami offer? I think it basically kind of, and I know you get Tyler Hero in it, but it basically kind of wipes the slate a little bit clean. I think if you're going to rebuild, you could probably rebuild a little bit easier this way, although Jalen Brown is a heck of a player, but he's also owed a $185, $190 million over the next three years, and he'd be walking into a situation where it would be him and Bobby Portis and Kyle Kuzma and some, you know,

Gary Trent Jr. and that group in the 10th pick and the draft. Here you basically walk into a situation where you've got two picks in the 10 and 13 now. You've got the three young players you got in the trade. Kiro will see what happens with him if he's flipped in another deal down the road. Big trade exception. created to Future First. Remember, they don't control their first until, you know,

2013, I believe here. And now they got it one in 31 and 33 from Miami. So I think if you're going to rebuild and retool and do it, this is probably a little bit more of a cleaner path than going out and getting a top 10 player in Jalen Brown just because there's not much left for him. It'd be basically Jalen Brown on an island by himself with a bunch of, you know, rotational players. Yeah. And listen, like Jalen Brown and Milwaukee. that seemed like a recipe for misery because the Bucks with even an MVP candidate they're going to be a mediocre team.

They were mediocre when Yannis played last year, bad when he didn't. Jathan Brown is a very good player. He's not a better player than Yonis. And, you know, Shams reported it was Jalen Brown and two first round picks, and that was the offer, where they didn't get that top-in talent in the return from Miami,

but they squeeze pretty much everything they could squeeze out of it. You know, Hockes is a, Hacchus Jr. is a good young player. Kelle Weir is a very promising young player. You know, the kid they took last year, his name, last name I can't pronounce. I just kept last year's first round pick. There you go. Yacchunis. There you go.

That guy, you know, he's got some promise. He's, if you don't know, he's like, you know, he was, we picked in the, the teens last year. He was injured for some of his rookie year. He's a big, he's a big guard. He's a prospect, big guard. Again, we'll see. The hope is that he becomes a good starter, that type of thing.

I think Ware's got a decently high ceiling. I'm saying it's going to be an all-star thing, but he's a talent. And then it's the picks. You get a lottery pick this year. And then the swap is when Yannis is 35. The second first round pick is when he's

36 and the last first round pick is when he's 38. So, you know, there's at least like, it's not like just this massive haul because there's not like the top end stuff, but it's a, it's a decent haul given the circumstances that you absolutely positively had to finally get a Janus deal done and the draft was a deadline of sorts. You know, I don't know that this deal shifts the balance of power in the Eastern Conference, much less the NBA, because you look at that heat roster, and I do think there's still a lot of work to be done to build a legitimate contender around Janice and Bam.

Yeah, we'll get to that in a second. I think that this was just a hard one because obviously if you trade for Jalen Brown, you're trading for an all-MBA player in his prime under contract control. That's the thing, Bob. He's under contract control, under contract for three more years, which is why I believe he's going to have significant value in a trade elsewhere, which we'll talk about in the second. I think if you go back and look at the star players that have been traded in the last year. So you look at Kevin Durant. He was traded, you know, the primary piece in the package he was traded for a year ago was the number 10 pick. You know, that's what the

Suns got back. You know, Jalen Green, certainly. But the number 10 pick was, you know, a prime piece in that. If you look, it ended up being the most impactful player. You're right. I'm sorry. Right away. Yeah.

You're right. Still, it was not a hole for an all-a-old being there. It was a decent return. But, you know, this return is greater. If you look at the Anthony Davis trade, I believe there were two first-round picks in that deal. There was the last pick in this year's draft and then a maybe first round. I think it equals a one. I think it equals one.

Yeah. And a top 20 protected. I forgot the exact year. A top 20 protected pick from the Warriors. That is. And it was basically expiring salaries and two firsts in quotes. Well, and they told. hook DeAngre Russell, which shocker, he picked up his $6 million player option, despite the fact that I don't even know if he knows where the arena is in Washington.

He certainly didn't have to go there. They took Jaden Hardy, who that was another NICO mistake contract. And they took Don Texham, who's expiring salary. But so it was like a salary. Without relegating the trade, I'm just saying that the, that the, that the, that the, Yonis package is a better package than those two players. than those two players. And, you know, he's a two-time MVP, and he's still in his prime years.

He should have been. I'm not saying that was, I'm just comparing it. But the Jalen Brown, you know, option would have been, you know, the best piece that's traded for a star player, you know, in the recent times. And I think there's probably several reasons why the Bucks didn't go that way. I think what you guys have said, I think part of it was the realization and the reality that Milwaukee has almost

almost no assets whatsoever. They had hollowed themselves out. And so when they're looking what they have to do going forward, the idea of getting the maximum amount of young prospects and draft picks, in addition to guys who can have, you know, core players now, whether or not they keep here or not, they could trade him for other poor players. I think, you know, when they were just evaluating what they had to do, they were sort of doing a self-assessment that, you know, if we trade for Jalen Brown, I'm not sure that they could have been contenders with him. I'm sure they couldn't have been. Like, do you want to be as good as possible for the next few years when that ceiling is pretty low?

Or do you want to give yourself a, you know, maximize your chance of putting together something legitimately good long term? Right. And I think that's the thing. I think, you know, Jalen Brown is a better player to have than any of these other players in the 20, 26, 27 season. But I'm not sure where you're going in 26, 27. And Jalen Brown would have been your, you know, he would have been your signature star. He would have been up on the billboards outside your building and around town. But I'm not sure it brings your franchise to a better spot.

And I think that's, it's arguable. And it's a gray area and that's the choice that they made. And I really think the ultimate assessment on this, Bobby, is they probably should have traded Yannis a year ago. Yeah. You would have a team two years to have him. Right. But they didn't. And so this is what they have.

We'll see when they eventually talk about this. They can't do this trade, right, Bobby? Yeah, they can't do it until July 6. Because Portis is involved. Portis is going into the trade exception for Duncan Robinson. Miami's taking a ton of money back. And we'll talk about their roster in a minute. But the Portis part, which helps them for their depth.

But this can't happen until July 6th because of the. So we're going to see the 13th pick will be made by the bucks, but he'll be putting on a heat hat, which is always annoying. tomorrow and I made by some other teams here, you know? Yeah, there was a few first-round picks traded today, which maybe we'll get into later if I don't weigh the white flag. Okay, now let's talk about the team that's very excited to get him. Obviously, the Miami Heat have been in pursuit of a star player since they traded Jimmy Butler. This is what the Pat Riley Playbook has been for almost three decades in Miami,

and they're able to land another star here. Obviously, Janus comes in the same vein as boy, Bobby, Alonzo Morning, Shaquille O'Neill, LeBron James, Jimmy Butler, who am I forgetting? Chris Bosch. This is what they've done, and so they've done it again. The expectation is that Janus will sign a, contract extension later this year to remain in Miami. He was open to this to doing so. I think he was interested in Miami for quite some time. Are we sure he's going to sign a full

four-year extension, Bobby? I mean, I would, if you're asking me right now, what he'll do. I think he'll opt into his contract and then signed for three years, 214 million because you can make about an extra million dollars by doing that way. So, you know, he'd tend to leave money on the table. That's true. And I'm sure the tax experts will be letting us know how much money, more money he'll be making playing in Florida versus playing in Wisconsin. No state taxes. Yes, I'm aware. Where do you live, Bobby? Florida. There you go. Okay, so Andrew Wiggins was kept out of this trade. By the way, they couldn't trade him. He hasn't picked up his option yet for next year.

Andrew Wiggins is like, I had picked up my option. They're going to try. They'll trade me. So the expectation You notice all those Milwaukee guys haven't picked up Except for Gary Harris Haven't picked up their option yet either They're probably like I don't want to be involved

Maybe they did want to be involved I was going to say Maybe they did I think MILD MIA is a lot more of a preferable route He might actually not pick up his option Bobby because one of the things I want you to talk about now

So obviously they kept Bametabio they kept Andrew Wiggins They Bobby Portis is in the deal the heat don't have a ton of guys on their roster right now and they now are going to be restricted a little bit and what they can spend. Can you go over that? Yeah, so now because they are taking back more salary in the trade, they are now hard-capped at the first apron.

So they are roughly $18 million below the threshold, and that does not include free agent Norman Powell. So they've got... That does include Wiggins? that includes Wiggins. So listen, you can, I think there's some... So Wiggins is, if Wiggins opts into his contract, he makes $30 million. Now let me just say, the heat of thought all of this out.

Yep. Andy Ellesberg, their general manager, he will have a plan. It doesn't necessarily mean that it will all go according to that plan. None of this will come as to surprise. They will have contingencies for all this, but this is for you to explain. Andrew Wiggins, if he picks up his player option, is supposed to make a 30 million. He could sign a new contract that is less than that that could give the heat a little bit more to spend, right? Yeah. So you could basically, he can decline his option. You basically

mitts, just hypothetical, lowers number to like 22, 23, and then add a second year and you basically make up the money and give them a little bit extra there. So that is a way to give yourself some more flexibility. Right. So they could probably maybe build, you know, to get themselves over 20 million to spend. But it's not that much, you know, especially when you consider that, that, you know, veteran minimums are three million, almost four million bucks now. So. And they've got a lot of spots to fill, to fill up the rock.

Yeah, about five. About five. I mean, they need some, they need some shooting. They need, uh, any depth across the board. Yeah, McMahon. So if you look at the team, so a band meta bio is an elite defensive player, um, uh, all defensive type player can, you know, can guard multiple different bigs. You look at Janus, obviously, former defensive player of the year.

That is terrific defense. Andrew Wiggins, strong plus perimeter defender. Those guys are going to be able to shoot. I mean, I just. Well, I'm not sure. Is Janus still a great defensive player? I guess we'll find out this year. Yeah, I don't know how.

Yeah. think he has the tools to continue to be a really good defensive player. I think defensively, just with their length, they're going to be a bearer to deal with defensively. I think they'll have to hang their head on the defensive end. But they're going to need some shooting. I know Bam Etabio has shot a little bit more threes in the last couple of years, but he didn't have a good year shooting the three last year. Yeah, and look, Janus is obviously one of the great downhill players in the history of the league, but he's not a three-point threat.

So your two best players are not three-point threats. I would think this means BAM's got to play primarily the five. Bobby Portis is a great three-point shooter, especially for a big. Wiggins is a very good three-point shooter. Wiggins had a very good three-point shooter, three-point season last year. Yeah, I actually shot it over 41% last year. Powell is a really good volume three-point shooter. So, man, they really need him.

Mitchell shot it well last year, but on very low volume, especially for a starting point guard. You know, Nicole Yovitch not being in the deal, that was a pretty strong indication that his contract is underwater right now. And he's a non-shooter. Yeah, I mean, to maximize the duo that is, you know, their cornerstone duo, they've got to get shooting around those guys. Yeah, that's going to be a challenge.

They were able to retain Davy on Mitchell, who will have, I think, a big role, Bobby, but is not, you know, another good defensive player. I think they're going to hang their head on defense, quite obviously. Yeah, and they kept play Larson, too. who gave him, you know, some some pretty good minutes last year and everything. Yeah, but again, not a great shooter. Not a good shooter, no. So, yeah, they're going to, you know, and, you know, there'll be some minimum guys that they have.

You know, one guy that I already heard attached to them is Chris Middleton, who obviously long, long history with, with, with Janus and Bobby Portis, you know. I don't know what Middleton's going to give you, but, you know, that's a type of, you know, there will be some type of signs that they could do that. But the reality is this is that when you make a trade like this, you know, you may not be at your best in year one. You know,

this is, you know, it may take them a while. It's almost like a free agent move. It may take them a while to build the roster back up. But look, they have BAM, they have Yannis.

Those are two elite talents. And, you know, it gives them an up, you know, you know, it's, it's a bad time to,

try to assess the Eastern Conference because this is the beginning of transaction season and a lot of teams are going to get better and some might will get worse. But I don't think you're looking at the heat instantaneously as title contenders, right? You don't see that way. Do you? I don't look at them as having Home Corps to Venge in the first round. I mean, you know, the Knicks are going to lose some pieces, but they're starting five is going to be intact. The Pistons have a young core.

And I anticipate the pistons addressing their glaring need for shooting. You know, Cleveland, I think, is going to be at least a good team again. You know, whether they can break through or not as different. You know, the Pacers are clearly going to be in a position to have a big time bounce back season after this gap year coming off of a finals appearance. Orlando, I think, will be better. Atlanta, I think, will be better. I mean, I think that the heat are probably a playoff team,

but I don't know that they're a real threat to make a deep run of the east. We'll have to see what they're able to do. There are a threat to be a highly viewed team, that I will say. All right, Bobby. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. The 2006 Chevrolete Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S. JD Power is designed for your everyday. And with available all-wheel drive, you can handle your to-do list with total confidence. Start your build at Chevrolet.ca. Details at JD.Power.com.

When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system. And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you.

It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. I want to now focus on the fallout here in Boston. Yeah. Not getting this deal done.

So Jalen Brown, you know, there was an attempt to, it was futile. It was an attempt to, I think, try to avoid Jalen being flagrantly available. But that's, you know, the horse is out of the barn on that. And I'm wondering, you know, and whether or not he decides to do his own media discussion first is, you know, we'll do. to be seen. He'll be on Twitch. You know, he may not, you know, I don't know how he feels, but he may not be opposed to having an opportunity to have his own team.

You know, he may feel a certain way about being put in trade rumors. I think a lot of players feel that way. I believe that the Celtics, by making him available, are admitting that their team just wasn't good enough and that it wasn't just a matter of having poor injury luck that they weren't a good enough team to compete in the East and that, you know, if they've, if they've made the decision to offer Jalen Brown for Janus, they've probably made the decision to trade Jalen Brown. And I would expect that there are going to be a handful, if not more teams who will be in contact with the Celtics if they haven't already showing interest in trading for Jalen Brown.

What do you think the Celtics can do there now? I agree. I mean, we talked about it earlier. I mean, when you've got three years and 180 million plus on your contract, it's a lot easier to move and gets things back for compared to one year or even what a player option. I think Boston is interesting. I think Brad Stevens got some Sam Presti in him, like, where he, like, Sam is really good at knowing like, hey, it's time to move off guys and this is, you know, this is when to do it. Like basically the alarm clock goes off.

And I think the Philly series was eye-opening, right, as far as where. and they had some injuries, of course, but as you said, Brian, they just weren't, they weren't good enough. And there's some, whether it be, you know, getting a pain presence, whether it's getting a center, whether trying to get a guy like Janus here, I think, you know, if, if there's a way, it's one or two ways that this is going to go, whether they're going to be, it's going to be major damage control and relationship repair or they're going to basically open the market up for, for, for, for, for John Brown. I mean, that's that, that, that's the reality here is that if they don't think the relationship can be repaired, they're going to, they'll look for, look for trade. Yeah, I don't even know if it's about, I mean, obviously there's a relationship issue, but I don't even know if it's that. I think it's, they're, they're choosing to change the makeup of their team, regardless of how anybody feels about it. It's the continuation of the relationship issues, because whether he's been offered or not, whatever the semantics are, he's been mentioned in trade rumors. multiple times now throughout the course of his career. And this went beyond trade rumors.

There's no question that he was offered here. And he already addressed this on Twitch. He says, to all the people who's doubted me that or want me gone, you're turning me into a monster. Now, you know, okay, you're using his motivation. But this also comes fresh off of him blatantly saying, hey, this was my favorite year of my career. This is not the year they won't.

on the championship, but the year that he was the unquestioned man on the team was his favorite year of his career. So there's going to be a lot of stuff that needed to be managed regardless, and now you throw this log on the bonfire. But don't you think, like, when you look at Jalen Brown, and I think it's different than what was it, 2002, and his name was being mentioned for Durant back then. Like, he's coming off the year. He finished sixth in the MVP. He basically carries this team without Tatum. And now he's being, and I get it to Janus. But he's like, what else I got to do?

Right? Like, you know, like, is, do they see me as not on the same level as Janus or, you know, a top level player that they're basically going to dangle me out there? And I think, as Brian said, like, you basically, you're realizing like this iteration of this group probably is just not good enough. Well, and also you have to consider, you can. agree, you can disagree. The simple fact is he felt like being second team all NBA was a snub. He felt snub that he wasn't a first team all NBA section or selection. So, you know,

his pride, I don't know if it's fair to say his pride is bruised, but he's going to have his, you know, he's going to puff out his chest and maybe put up his dukes and like this is going to be something that the Celtics front office is going to have to deal with. But the conversation I was having with other teams this afternoon and this evening was if the bucks chose the heat package was who could trade for Jalen Brown. I'm not going to get into the speculation zone here because it'll get aggregated and it'll be reports. But, you know, assessing it, I think there's quite a few teams that can make compelling offers for them. None of them, unfortunately, for the Celtics will have Janus in them. There's not going to be. going to be a player of that caliber coming back. But it's possible Jalen Brown could land multiple players who could be high-level starters. And I think if you look at what the Celtics, their shortcomings are, they need size, they need interior size.

That's part of what Janus would have brought them. And they could use some playmaking. And, you know, they could always, you know, use some shooting. that team. So, you know, I think, Bobby, they may be able to, you know, and the one thing about the Celtics, under Brad Stevens, they've done a very good job of assessing other teams, you know, pro personnel, basically,

finding guys who fit with what they want, you know, going out and getting, you know, whether it's Chrisaps Porzingis or even Nimi Keda, going out and seeing players on other teams and saying this would be, you know, you know, Derek White, for example, these guys would be a good fit. And just as the heat have backup scenarios,

the Celtics are an excellent front office. I'm sure they have backup scenarios now with Jalen Brown, knowing that once they crossed this Rubicon, there was probably no going back. No, yeah, I think you hit it right. It's not like they're waking up right now. Be like, uh-oh, we didn't get them. Now what do we do?

And, you know, listen, as you said, once it was known, they were in it, And Jalen Brown was a center piece. You basically have a built-in contingency as far as what to do next. Yeah, one of the parts of Sean's reporting on this trade was that, you know, there was a, you know, a desire for the, the Bucks wanted the heat to, in clarity, the Bucks wanted the Celtics to include other pieces and parts in addition to the multiple picks, you know, maybe putting in like a guy like a Baylor Shireman or potentially Hugo Gonzalez,

who was their number one pick. in 25, just had his rookie season. And, you know, I, you know, I suspect that, you know,

it was just Milwaukee's, you know, prerogative to, to pick up as many assets as they can. I highly doubt this was like, you know, Baylor Shireman or bus guys, you know,

you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, I know that they can be presented that way. I think it, you know, you're just trying to get the, you know, Bobby, don't you're trying to try and you're trying to get the best bargain you can, I guess. Yeah, you're trying to squeeze them out, squeeze these guys out as many things that ever, but at the end of the day, it's, you know,

I don't think Baylor Shireman or Jordan Walsh or any of these guys were deal, was the deal breaker and stuff, you know, listen, I think ownership or the front end of front office, like, hey, Jim Brown on one side and the Miami offer, a long list of things here and probably it's, it's probably quantity or quality as far as what Milwaukee is getting back when you look at what, you know, Brown is a, you know, top 10 player here. So a lot more to come on the Celtics and Jalen Brown front. And a lot more to come as we watch the heat make insulary trades, potentially even Milwaukee make ancillary trades too.

You know, some people have, you know, assume that Tyler Hero. will get rerouted because he's on the last year of his contract making $33 million. But it's worth pointing out Tyler Hero was from the Milwaukee area. And, you know, he may want to play from Milwaukee and take a ton of shots and maybe get a nice contract in Milwaukee. The bucks will need somebody to draw somebody into that team. And, you know, Tyler Hero is a guy who has been an all-star and has been a pretty consistent score. So we'll see what happens there. Before we sign off on this, there was a couple of other transactions on Monday that I think we should talk about.

One happened Monday night, Bobby, three-team trade between Minnesota, Chicago, and Brooklyn. The core piece of this being Julius Randall being sent in a – there was some swapping round of picks. Yeah. The Timberwolf sent out the 28th pick and got back the 33rd pick. Was that what was in there? That's actually functionally not that much of a difference in this particular draft, and you can pay the 33rd pick less. This was a Julius Randall's salary dump.

Nick Claxton goes to Chicago. Chicago basically uses this as a free agent move, basically absorbs Claxton into their cap space. They'll still have cap space to do some other things on free agency. But that was sort of like a free agent move. And it's kind of a free agent move for Brooklyn taking Julius Randall into Cap Space. Because they sent out Claxton, they'll still be a significant cap space team. But Bobby, the takeaway from this is a straight salary dump from Minnesota, offloading Julius Randall,

a player who had a poor showing by his standards. in the playoffs, but still was a cornerstone piece of this organization that they give away for nothing but a trade exception. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

It's interesting, especially 33 million. It's interesting to watch the timeline of this, you know, they went from a second apron team. They were the first. Then they went under. You know, they don't bring back to kill Alexander Walker last year. Basically picked Randall and Reed

over, you know, the two out of the three guys. And now they're basically in a position where they agree to a deal with Iyo, the sumu, five years, 112, I believe the number was, which is a pretty rich deal. And that basically, the Randall trade now opens up flexibility to try to do something else in free agency here. They'll be able to use their $15 million non-taximate level. They won't have to be worried. If they had kept his roster intact in sign, IEO, they would have been a luxury tax, first day, you know, they would have basically added everything. They would had no flexibility here.

And now you're right. I mean, you basically dump that salary. And now let's see what they can do with, what they can do in free agency with, with, you know, some of the money they have. Well, and let's also just be, I'll be blunt. An ownership group that had to purchase a team at a discount rate on layaway is going to cut some corners financially.

And a salary dump of a guy who averaged 21, 7, and 5 last year for a second round playoff. team is a pretty drastic penny-pension move. Look, and I get, like, they had to pay Iowa, especially with Dante DiVincenzo's Achilles injury. Like, we'll see if he's able to come back at all next season. But the best case scenario is he's able to come back late in the season. And so we're looking at a team that has gone conference finals, conference finals,

second round that has two may like their depth is significantly depleted because they're losing their number two offensive option and they're going to plug gnaz read in the starting lineup you know they've at least got a guy ready to plug in there but losing an elite six man in that sense and then they're losing their you know their best volume three-point shooter in devincenzo and that's obviously not a decision they made but the simple fact is those are two high-quality starters that the wolves aren't going to have next season. Yeah, so I think Bobby, I remember doing a story a couple years ago that the wolves, there's a couple of teams. I think one team that's never ever paid the luxury tax.

That's the New Orleans Pelicans. I don't think they've ever paid the tax. I think Charlotte maybe is the other who's never paid the tax. You're right. And Indiana goes back to like 04 or 5 or something like. Right. Twice, yeah. So I think in the history of luxury tax,

the wolves had paid less than $2 million until three years ago. And then over the last three years, they've paid around $100 million. I realize there's an ownership change in there. But the wolves have not been a luxury taxpayer. And they went from being not a luxury taxpayer to paying enormous amounts of tax. You know, over the last three years, they've got to be in the top five on spending in the league. And that's coincided with their three best seasons. that they've best three-year run in franchise history.

Conference finals, conference finals in this year's second round. Four teams that have been out of the first round one time in franchise history before this run. Right. So they've gotten, you know, a payoff for their spending. But, you know, as you mentioned McMahon, like Carl Towns is out the door and a champion. McKeel Alexander Walker out the door and most improved. Yeah. And now Julius Randall, I mean, in theory, they have a $30 million trade exception. They could take on some money, Bobby, but it seems like they're spending that they, you know, they agreed to IOTUSU's contract at the same times they made this trade.

It seems like that's where the money is going to be. You know, we'll see. You don't judge that right now. My question is, what's Ann Edwards thinking? I was going to say, we started off. We just spent a half hour talking about the honest trade. that we've been talking about for years. And I'm not declaring anything with certainty

except for the fact that the NBA vultures are swirling around Ant in anticipation of him potentially becoming the next superstar who's available in the trademark. Exactly right. Or who pushes his way to the trademark. It's fascinating on this because if you were to say who's next after Janus, we would have said aunt and that this trade happened the exact same time as the honest trade is fascinating. You know, and aunt was really frustrated throughout, really just been frustrated since Talon's got traded at how he gets double teamed.

And, you know, that was a big challenge for the, you know, the wolves had to deal with their point card situation, which they, you know, I assume that's what the investment in I.O. is about. But they have to do something this offseason about addressing the the the the the the double team situation, especially knowing that you may not have de Fincheno and instead his offseason begins by what you know, and I don't think aunt was the biggest Julius Randall fan. But I think it's more about Randall. It's not so much Randall being traded. It's Randall being traded in a salary dump. Yeah.

You know, I don't think that Julius was like, no, no, I don't think that, you know, that aunt was like, no, no, don't trade Julius. Absolutely not. Never. Because there was some significant disconnect between those players by the end of the season. But it's the fact that, again, that they traded them into someone else's space that is going to be interesting. And if they don't have a really good season or don't get off to a great start, Bobby, you know, that trade exception is going to be sitting there and you're going to wonder, are they going to be under pressure to use it? Well, Tim Connolly's phone will be ringing. I promise you that. something else. But maybe not on... I'm fairly certain that Tim Connolly is in the final year of his contract,

going into the final year of his contract, and has not extended his contract. Well, and there will be interest in him. Exactly. He'll have a significant interest in him before they hired him to his jury. Right. Well, he wasn't able to get that job.

He was in his contract. You know, you don't have to let him out. Obviously, you got a guy under contract. But typically, when another team wants to high, you, what happens? You get a contract extension. Now, now, sometimes they, excuse me, sometimes executives and coaches get contract extensions and they don't announce it.

So I'm not like, quote unquote, reporting, he isn't going to get one. But as far as I know, this is what I'll say, as far as I know, Tim Connolly is in the last year of his contract. So, and I don't think it's because the wolves don't want to extend it. I think the wolves do want to extend it. So process that, however you want to

process that. And, and, and, and process that with the, with, you know, keep that in mind as we go forward with Ann Edwards. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. This episode is brought to you by Activia. You might already be eating yogurt, but not all yogurts are created equal. Activia contains over one billion probiotics per serving to survive and reach the gut alive. When it comes to gut, Health, Activia is the number one family doctor-recommended probiotic yogurt brand. Choose Activia. Feel Good from the Inside Out. Visitactivia.ca for more details. Before we go, we all go to bed. Guess who got a contract extension?

Oh, I was shocked by this. Couldn't have seen this one coming. Actually, it wasn't a contact. Our own Jeremy Wu? Is that? Oh, that's right. Congratulations, Jeremy. Congratulations, who got more money? Jeremy Wu or Trey Young? When I wrote my what I would pay free agents article, I vastly underrated Trey Young and I have D'Sumo. Where'd you have, where'd you have I. I had him like four years, 18, I don't know, 62 million. I thought I just had him like 18, like 18 million a year, somewhere around there. He ended up at what?

Yeah, he started at night. I think he started at 19. and went up from there. So it's 23? 23 a year? Is that what it is? Yeah, 22 and change. I had Trey at three years,

130. You only missed that one by $2 million. $82 million. Basically, Trey Young got, he got four years 212, which is the max that he could have received from another team. Now, the Wizards can say,

hey, Tray Young left $75 million. on the table from what his max would have been from us, because it would have been five years and, what is that? 287, I think, is that it would have been a number. Yeah. But look. I would like, I would invite someone to make that argument because. Yeah.

This signing went down just before MBA Today Today, today, and I elected not to talk about the Wizards decision on TV. I elected to congratulate Trey Young and his agency. for this maneuver. Great job by CAA. A huge W for them. And like, listen, I understand. And I am not represented by CAA.

You don't get. No. I'm with M.E. Not WM.M. Just M.E. No W. on any of my contracts. I assure you that.

But, like, I get it for the Wizards in the sense of you don't just get an infinite rebuilding period, right? There's natural pressure on the wizard's front office to return to competitiveness. And they knew that before last season. Michael Winger told his guys in a meeting like, hey, we're going to stink this year and we got to go next year, right? We got to be, we got to make major progress.

And that was the whole point of the pre-agency trades with Trey, who's quad acted up on the flight and with A.D., who that hand got better right after the season ended, thank goodness. So, and they got the number one pick out of it, okay? Right. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. When the Wizards traded Trey Young or traded for Trey Young, it was under the understanding he was not going to play.

Okay? Correct. Now, they can all, everybody can deny that and they can point to, to medical records or whatever. We played five games. By the way, they won't win a five. Literally the day the trade happened, people in the league knew the trade was not going to play.

Okay. So if you are going to be a free agent, all right, you are not going to not want to play. You're going to want to have a great year. Unless what? Contract year, right? Yeah. So why would, why would you do that?

Right. So, what they are paying Trey Young here for is having sat before becoming a free agent. Dude, I am so good at sitting. Somebody pay me.

Listen, I agree that if you look at it that way, it can be viewed sort of in a weird way. But this was a calculation by the Wizards. It was a calculation of how do we get a player with talent and how do we get him in a way that we guarantee that he's on our roster? We don't have to go seek out and also get the highest draft pick possible.

You make a deal like this. And in all seriousness, I understand them looking at Trey Young while they've got this young roster that isn't expensive with one exception, who will get to that exception in a little bit here, but saying, hey, we've got to be better this year. We've got to put this young group of players, someone like Alex Saar, Kishan George, Blah, who unfortunately broke his foot. Alex Sar broke his foot. Right. But, you know, like they, whoever them on pick is, like, they couldn't look themselves in the mirror and say, you know, we've got some guys who've got a chance. We've got to put them in competitive situations to give them a chance to grow. Okay. That's all true. That's all fine. I'm not dismissing your point, McMahon. Yeah. But Bobby, they could have done,

they could have rewarded him without giving him this much money. This was a shocking sum of money. And not only that, Bobby, they gave him a player option. I originally thought the deal was going to be three years. So did I. And I thought you could, and I could have said, hey, it's three years, but it's really only like $110 million in new money, right? Because he has a $49 already in his back pocket. He was under contract for $49. By the way, the Hawks had a hell of a time trading him.

Okay, because. Oh, no, there's only one team on his list. Wow, whatever. I mean, anybody, they can say whatever they want publicly. They had a hard time trading, and because of the $50 million he was owed, he opted out of that contract with the full knowledge he was going to get a new one from the Wizards. I know that there's plausible deniability that can exist, but, Bobby, I do not understand why they paid him this much money.

I think you, one way you can look at it. And this, and I'm going to, comparatists to another team that just played in the NBA finals. You can look at it and say, hey, we've got all these young players on rookie contracts, okay? We can justify overpaying because by the time,

you know, Kula Bali is extension eligible to some. But we have a financial timeline as far as where our roster is, certainly with AD. It's a grid contract. He's a grid player. And you can say that what San Antonio probably do with Deerrin Fox, right?

You know, they had Victor and they had, you know, Castle and Harper. And you could say, hey, we could overpay Deeran Fox last summer. Now you're looking at Deeran Fox. And you're like, ooh, you're one of that extensions kicking in. That's a pretty big number here. My biggest concern is not this year and next. It's like years three and four, right? Like $54, $56 million.

You're owning him $110. Like I thought he was kind of a bridge, right? He could have been a bridge to make. Maybe some of these, maybe you drafted Darren Peterson and he's a bridge made of platinum. Yeah. So you guys know that I had, and I, you know, the last full year that Trey played where he wasn't, you know, dealing with some sort of tanking situation. He averaged 24 and 12, led the league an assist. Like, he's going to put up numbers for them.

He's an outstanding offensive player. But you guys know how I view contracts. Can you trade it? Bobby, I think this is instantaneously one of the worst contracts in the league. I'm sorry I said that. I'm sorry I said it that way. I don't mean to be mean.

You can't. I don't think they could trade this contract unless they attach the number one pick to it. I don't think if we I think when we get to whatever is January or no, whenever December, I don't think you can trade this contract. No.

Remember, like look at what the look what they traded two expiring basically CJ and Kisper Yeah That was the price tag And by the way The Hawks got better

The Hawks got better Again I do think Trey Young will raise the floor For the Wizards I don't think he raises it To where they're a playing team Or much less a playoff team

When you look at the 10 teams That were in the postseason Plus Indiana is going to have a bounce back year But you know The young guys at least be able to play in competitive situations after just getting their doors blown off in the tank of the last few years.

Now, there's this, well, you know, there was max interest from other teams. Who? I don't believe that because there was no other teams. I'm sorry, that's not, that's not an intellectually sane argument. I call, I call BS on that. Now, my, the biggest issue I have of all these things we laid out, There's one big issue.

I mentioned Anthony Davis. I mentioned that hand healed just in time for his offseason training. That hand is healthy enough for him to go like this. Where's my extension? You took care of him. Where's my money? So AD has two years and $120 million left on his contract. Why was it so hard for the Mavericks to trade him?

He's barely played since he got traded from the Lakers. He's played a few dozen games. Well, the durability issues didn't help, but the main reason was so hard to trade him was because he was so damn expensive and wants a max extension. And he only has one year left on his contract that is guaranteed like he has a player option after this year.

Right. And so you know Rich Paul pretty well. Both you guys do? You think Rich Paul is ringing up that Wizard's front office and saying, hey, we like extensions. we want to talk about one. You took care of Trey Young, or do you think he's just kind of sitting on his hands

and not thinking about that at all? I think Rich Paul's got August 6th circled. Yeah, I don't know. Now, the Wizards were very clear with me, at least, just because they extended Trey at this huge amount does not mean that they can't take Darren Peterson with the number one overall pick in a couple of hours. I believe the draft starts in 15 minutes here.

Bobby, we should get over there. Aaron Peterson is a two, not a one. I agree, but position-wise. He's a shooting guard, not a point-guard. I agree, and that's what the wizards are saying. I think you should ask Derek Peterson that, by the way. I think you should ask Darren Peterson where they sees himself as a two or a one. I think you should ask any lottery pick whether they should have the ball in their hands.

Right. So I don't know. be telegraphing what they're going to do here, but they insisted that was not the case. And like I said, they had committed themselves to giving Trey Young a new multi-year contract before they even got on the plane. That's why his agency did. Considering he was in a situation where the Hawks had decided that they were not going to have him on their team anymore, and, you know, there was difficult, there was not that much interest in trading for him,

that they were able to get him into a place where he got paid this amount of money. It is, I mean, real talk here. I am not messing around. That was great. It is one of the great agenting moves I've seen in the last decade. Considering where that was,

it was one of the great agenting moves I've seen in the last decade. And when I saw, Rich Paul tried to do the same thing with Anthony Davis and was blindside. He tried to work with the Mavericks front office, and he had, you know, a couple of teams. He was trying to get him to Atlanta, or he was trying to get him to blanking on the other team. Oh, Toronto.

They were blindsided by getting sent to Washington. And there were no promises made on anything in terms of an extension. Yeah. All right. Well, we're going to have a whole lot of maneuvers in the next 24 hours. Any interest in the estate made it out or you got to get some sleep. Oh my God. I forgot about that.

I'm just curious. No, the floor is yours. Go ahead. Well, honestly, look, it came down to this. They targeted two premier college coaches. Dukes John Shire, who obviously had the relationship with Cooper Flagg, having coached him for a year.

I'm pretty sure that was the flag family preference. You know, uh, word got back that Shire was not going to be the guy. I don't know if the matter of, I guess they weren't able to talk him into it. Dusty May very quickly became the focus. The rest of the coaching search,

which they interviewed several assistant coaches, most of whom you described as like up-and-coming assistant coaches. Clearly, they were back burner candidates. And so now you've got a guy fresh off a national championship. He's got a reputation for being one, a great guy in terms of motivating players, in terms of developing players, and in terms of being a creative basketball mind, you know, I would say the biggest knock on this hire is just,

it's a pretty ugly track record of coaches jumping from college to the NBA. You know, there are exceptions, Brad Stevens being by far the most notable one. You know, Bobby, I think as a front office guy and as a guy who, I think you, do you know Dusty May a little bit? I think his personality is terrific. I think we said on the show tonight, or not tonight yesterday, his demeanor is terrific, right? Like, you know, having gotten to know a lot of the Michigan players in this year's draft, that was the drawing point.

DeMorrow and Merez Johnson, guys who have transferred in Lindenberg, too, was like his, like the personality, they just loved playing for him. and having having been through, listen, we, in 96, we hired Cal Perry, who just had gone

in the final four with UMass, and, I mean, coaches mellowed a lot more than he was as a 34, 30, you have to have the right personality

for this thing, man. Like, if you come in here, like, you ain't gonna, you know, certainly you go from 35 to 40 games

to 82, you're going to lose more, right? But you got to know how to control the locker. And I think how colleges are now, you're basically kind of, it's almost like a pro roster, right?

It is. They get transactions, the building, you're doing all that. Yeah, you're coaching millionaires. I think he'll be really good. I think it's interesting what they'll do,

you know, at nine, right? Lennembert came out and said, hey, pick me, right? He came out already and stuff.

And I think he'll be really good in Dallas with, it's a mix, you know, it's a mix of, you know, Cooper, you got some veterans,

Kyrie, figure that part out. Some nice, there's some nice pieces there. Well, and coach, Cooper is obviously the biggest part of the draw here.

Well, we haven't heard the money yet, but I'll bet the money was a big draw too. And Patrick Dumont does tend to, like, if he wants to get something done and wants a big name, whether it's Rick Welts as a CEO, Messiah's Jury, is the team president running basketball operations.

Now, Dusty May, like, he's not afraid. You said about this. You've reported on this. They wanted championship winners. They went on and got a championship winning CEO. We went on and got a championship winning GM. And when they started looking for their coaches after they let Jason Kidd go, or mutually parted ways or whatever you want to call it,

fired them, yeah. They were trying to go get coaches who had other jobs who had championships. Okay, they couldn't get any NBA coaches with championships. So they hired the college coaching champion. This is obviously a key thing he wanted. Yeah, and that's why I can't sit here and tell you that Dusty May wasn't the management's top choice all along.

I think if Cooper Flagg could have made the hire and talked John Shire and a coming of Dallas, then I think it's a reasonable bit of speculation to say that's the direction of the gone just because of the familiarity. By the way, I did ask Cooper did not visit Michigan. The only official visits he took were Connecticut and Duke. I'm sure that he's at least crossed paths with Dusty May in the report. recruiting process, but I don't know if there's a relationship there, but it sounds like Dusty Mail have no problem developing a relationship. Look, this roster is going to look a lot

different, I think, in training camp than it does now. They're basically shopping a bunch of veterans. Kyrie is not among those. But you want to talk about anybody else on the roster who's not a teenager, and I think Miss I is more than willing to have those conversations. Well, I think had Steve Kerr, not re-signed in Golden State. I think Dusty May would have been on the warrior shortlist. I think he was on the short list, a couple of other places. And he was clearly on the shortlist for the Mavericks. So I know that it came as some level of a surprise. But I think it, you know, I think they probably would have hired him right away if it was an easy decision for him. So, but I think it was interesting. You know, he did what he did, Bobby? As far as I know, this was one of the things that went around. And he agreed to a contract extension of Michigan. Obviously, he won the national title.

But he never signed it. As far as I know, I don't think. And it's not unheard of for a coach, for a college coach to not sign a contract right away. Sometimes it goes like, you know, months or whatever. But I think he was keeping an eye on the NBA options all along. So, all right. It's time for bed. I got to get up. My car just got here to go. I did see Bobby this morning at 5.45 a.m. when I was going to get up. So I know he's going to be a long day. I didn't go get my coffee. I didn't go get my coffee. I didn't realize I walked in the wrong direction now. I will talk like two miles to Starbucks. It was like literally like three blocks away.

Wendy, I hope you're here. Welcome to Brooklyn. I think Bobby's will look pretty similar. I got to shave. I got a shave. I got a shave. Not right now, though. All right, well, good luck on the draft broadcast, Bobby. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, McMahon, I hope you have a nice, long, fitful sleep. Hey, barbecue at the mass facility for draft tomorrow. It's going to be great. It's going to be great.

Thank you to Jackson for staying up late and put it all together. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you after the draft. Adios amigos. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if, like, What if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old.

You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.