Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Emergency Pod: MOST SHOCKING TRADE IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA – Reaction

Episode Date: February 2, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to one of the biggest trades in NBA history sending Luka Doncic to the Lakers and Anthony Davis to the Mavericks in a three-team blockbuster. The guys tackle what this means going forward, how this came to be and why it went through. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing in the middle of the night on Saturday night. Joining us from New York City, where he was at the Lakers game, a couple of hours ago at Madison Square Garden, where they had a win to win their eighth out of ten games.

LeBron was great. Rich Paul, the agent for LeBron and A.D. was there enjoying the game. Is Tim Bontem. Hello, everybody. I'll just say that we've already had many sleep updates. from Mr. Windhorst, and it's, uh, there are only going to be more of them by the time this emergency pod is done, which is what happens when you have the most shocking trade in the history of the NBA go down.

I'm boarding a flight at 5 a.m. and, and, uh, it's, it's after, whatever it is, but it's, it's in a couple hours on boarding a flight, which I was already pre, I was already booked. I didn't like scramble the bucket. Joining us from Cleveland, Ohio, where he is going to be with the Mavericks tomorrow when they play today, whatever, when they play the, um, the Cleveland. Sometimes. I'm not sure Anthony Davis going to make it there. Is Ban McMahon.

Howdy, partners. You're going to get some old band sleep updates coming up pretty soon here. You got that right. This is, I've got to tell you, did not see this coming? You didn't see it coming? McMahon, the basketball world didn't see this trade coming. It's legitimately the most shocking trade in the history of the NBA. We'll get to the details.

I knew there were. was real strong frustration with Luca Donchich within the Mavericks organization. I did not see trading a perennial MVP candidate who has yet to hit his prime. That's exactly what the Dallas Mavericks did late on a Saturday night. I talked to an executive tonight who said that he talked to Nico Harrison the past couple of days and Nico was looking for a backup center and this comes out of left field within a day or two after that. I mean, this is, I mean, the fact that all of us, the general manager of the Mavericks, yes.

The fact that all of us were getting text messages and calls asking if our colleague Shams Sharani, it was hacked when he tweeted this out, which by the way, props to Shams, because this is going to be one of the all-time gets to have this trade. And, you know, it's, I mean, it's, I've been thinking about it for the last hour or whatever. It's, this is quite, yeah. Clearly, the most shocking trade in issue to leave.

In the era of, you know, getting hacked in deep fakes, you know, like that was the thing. Like, you know, people were like, is Shams okay? So Shams was definitely okay. Okay, so McMahon, you literally wrote the book on Luca. It's coming out in a few months, the Wonderbush. Well, I've got to figure some things how because the ending's a little bit different now. Well, the story, Luca's story isn't over. It's just a phase of his career. That Luca Dachich, not even six months ago, entered the NBA season as the favorite to win the MVP award.

And he has been traded before that trade deadline. That is just a wild thing to think about. So it's natural because the NBA universe, you know, circles around the Lakers so often, to look at this from the Lakers perspective. but we're not right now. We will in a minute. This McMahon is about the Dallas Mavericks. And Luca is 25 years old. He's going to turn 26 in a few weeks, I think. Turns 26th, then to February.

He's been a first-team All-MBA player for the last five years. He won't make it this year because he's missed too many games. But first-team all-N-B-A player for five years, carried the team into the finals last year. Definitely has his... you know, warts, but regarded as one of the top three players in the league. If you did a, if you did a, you know, if we did the exercise of ranking the most desired players in the league, he would be in the top five. You know, you debate about where you would

put Victor or whatever because of his age, he'd be in the top five, probably the top three, but whatever. I mean, look, and it would be ranked before the season started. He ranked second to Yolkich. Okay. I'd love to know what Yolk is. which things tonight. So this is the Dallas Mavericks basically saying we want out of the Luca business. And before I hand it over to you, Luca was eligible. He was eligible to sign, but this trade is going to cost him tens of millions of dollars, by the way, because he can't sign the supermax, but not to mention the tax difference between Texas and California. But, but Luca was in position to sign a five-year $300 million extension this summer.

Through about $3.45, but yes. Okay, 350. So, and no one has ever not signed the Supermax. He's already qualified for it. No one has ever not signed it. So this wasn't the Mavericks. I mean to cut you, I don't mean to cut you off, but the only reason I want to say that that isn't true is because the last guy in this position to get traded at this moment, was Anthony Davis in 2019.

Yes, but Anthony Davis had asked for a trade. Well, I understand that. I'm just saying Anthony Davis had indicated, like, he wasn't going to sign the Supermax, is my point. Like, he wasn't going to stay in New Orleans. He's the only other guy, and the fact that they got traded for each other is just one other wrinkle to this whole thing. That's all.

Okay. So, correct me if I'm wrong with, man. I don't think the Mavericks were concerned that Luca was not going to sign it. I've obviously talked to some people with the Mavericks since this trade went down, they weren't certain, but their concern was the risk of signing him to that supermax, of making a 350-ish million-dollar commitment. And this is basically the Maverick saying they didn't believe that you could rely on Luca moving forward.

You know, this was, again, I knew, you know, I talked a little bit about some of the frustrations within the organization about the conditioning. You know, the quote unquote right wrist spraying again, he had a little risk thing, but that was absolutely shutting him down so he could get in shape. He was playing in the high 260s this season. When he's in shape, he's 245 to 250. You know, 255 is pretty normal. He was in the high 260s this season.

They shut him down. He shed some weight. plays, he had a really nice run like that. I mean, there was the game in San Francisco where he absolutely looked like MVP can at Luca Doncha, just playing at that level, then gets hurt again. And again, when these calf injuries, number one, he strained his calf before training camp. There was a contusion. That's what they reported. There was also a strain. Okay. I'm telling you that as a fact. So this calf strain has happened four times, same calf. And the last last three years, twice this season. And the reaction within the Mavericks wasn't like, geez,

man, bad luck. It was, I, you know, just extreme frustration that this is the result of not caring or not, you know, taking the actions that show you care about things like diet and conditioning and lifestyle. Now, I get the frustration. But he's 25. He's not 29 or 32. Like, I know. I'm just telling you kind of what the thinking was there. I am as shocked as anybody that they traded a 25-year-old who is clearly one of the best players in the world. But, you know, again, Nico Harrison told me, this was a quote. Yeah, read that quote. The quote he gave you on the record when people were still unsure if the trade was real. Absolutely. Yeah. I believe that defense wins championships, and I believe that getting an all-defense center and an all-MBA player with a defensive mindset gives us a better chance.

We're built to win now and in the future. Well, here's the thing. Like, that's the basketball component of this trade from the Dallas bar, right? Which I think is pretty fascinating and is an interesting thing to talk about. At the end of the day, though, we're starting with Dallas because Michael Lewis wrote this book called The Big Short on the Financial. crisis, right? This is the biggest short in the history of the NBA. The Dallas Mavericks are betting that Luca Dachich is not going to be the player that we all think he's going to be. And the player, and frankly, the player that he has been. Right. Exactly. Well, it has been in going

forward, right? This is a bet that he is not going to be worth of superbacks. He's not going to be a guy who wins MVP. He's not going to be a guy that wins championships. More than anything, it's a bet that he's not going to be available at all. That's right. It's a bet against Luca Donchich, and it's a bet on going bigger with Anthony Davis up front, going defense first. It's a bet on Kyrie Irving, which, I mean, we've talked a lot about. I guess Kyrie will be asking for the max this summer. He's got some leverage. He certainly got leverage. I mean, the basketball fit in Bat Dallas is super interesting. and I think that's worth talking about.

But again, like, the reason this is so shocking is because guys like Luca Donchich at this stage of his career do not get traded. I will repeat that. These guys do not get traded ever in this situation. No, like when James Hardin got traded, he was a sixth man of the year and the third star on that team. Perennial first team, all NBA players who have yet to hit their prime. We've never seen something like this.

And Anthony Davis is the last player of this caliber to get traded at this stage of his career. And to your point, Brian. But that was a contract. No. Well, Anthony Davis wanted to leave where he was at, right? And it asked, to your point, yes, he wasn't going to sign the Supermax, but that's because he and Rich Paul had made it crystal clear. He didn't want to be in New Orleans.

That is not what happened here. For all the frustrations that went on here, it's not like Luca Dachutche had said. get me out of Dallas. No. So the fact that the Mavericks have shorted him like this is why this is such a shocking trade on top of all the other factors with the Lakers playing tonight, when in the game, all this other stuff floating around it. That's where this comes down to.

It's that Dallas said, Luca Dantage isn't worth it. Well, I've had multiple people within the Mavericks use the term held hostage as how they felt about being, you know, the entire franchise relying on Luca with this looming $350 million commitment coming in the summer. And they felt like there wasn't a good solution there because you either sign them to that extension and, you know, live in fear or you don't. And, you know, he's not going to be around long. term. You know, then you risk losing

for nothing. Well, and go ahead. There is this option. And you guys, hold on, real quick, you guys were there with me when this happened. When I ripped the hell out of Luca after game three of the finals last year, which... That tunnel!

Well, the reason I was so frustrated in the moment was that he basically torpedoed his team and I'd seen him do it before on the international stage several times. And I showed up the next two days, and I got jeered by the fans. Right. That all kinds of crazy bleep to me chanted my name or whatever after Luca was great in game four.

I heard nothing from the Mavericks. No. And from ownership through the front office to the coach, I was standing in the arena for two days on end. I wasn't dodging anybody. I went to the press conferences. I was in Lucas press conference. was standing on the court. Nobody said anything to me. Because everything you said were things that they had complained about repeatedly, were things they had. But that happens all the time. You say

things all the time that you think are true. And agents and teams and, you know, they come to you and they, you know, they defend their person. Now, having said all this for all the flaws, he was third an MVP voting last year. He's been first team all in VA five straight years. As you said, if we're talking about the most talented players, the most valued players in the league, we ain't getting past one hand counting where Luca falls there. They felt like it was a massive risk going forward with him and making a Supermax commitment. To trade that type of talent is an astronomical risk. Well, and listen, we have talked a lot about, whether it's Kauai Linder, Joel and Bede,

like these guys that have been in and out of the lineup and there's questions about their health and everything else, right? The reason teams always bet, and have in the past, always bet on these guys, is because there are only a few players of that talent on the planet. And typically, you have to have one of them to win. And that is, you know, that is. why again, it's like these trades just do not happen. And it's what's going to make it such a fascinating decision by the Mavericks because they are screaming from the rooftops. We didn't want to

commit the next, the rest of this decade to being the Luca Donchich Mavericks. And you just don't ever see a team in this position. Yeah, it's the big short. They have shorted, they have shorted, they have shorted Luca Donchich and it's one of the most fascinating bets in the history of the league. People, you know,

mock the clippers for trading Shea Gildes Alexander who might win the MVP this year and saying, boy, my God, you guys traded an MVP.

This isn't the same ballpark. She was a prospect. It's not the same universe. So think about, you know, that the clippers have to live every day

knowing that they traded this guy away. And it's like the, again, like the, Thunder when they traded Hardin and he became, you know, an MVP and a proenial first team all NBA player and the schoolman champion, all that. But when they traded him, he was the third guy on that team and he was the sixth man of the year. He wasn't, he wasn't five-time first-team all-MBA. Shea was a prospect. So like, this is trading, like Jackson has it here for us.

This is the first time in NBA history where two reigning all-MBA players were traded for each other in the season. Wow. And here's the other thing. I'm going to say, Okay, let's say they agree. Let's say they have an internal understanding, McMahon, that they're going to trade them. I mean, it's a massive decision. It's the biggest decision in the history of the franchise, right? Is that, you think that's wrong? Oh, yes, yes.

So it's a biggest decision in the history of the franchise. And they don't auction him. They, I mean, obviously, you know, now we'll say this. Background here, Nico Harrison was at Nike for 20-something years. When he was at Nike, Anthony Davis was one of his guys. Yes. You know, Kobe was his number one, but Anthony Davis was right there. And Jay Kids extremely tight with Anthony Davis from their time together with the Lakers. You know, Michael Finley, you know, a high-ranking executive has a relationship with Anthony Davis as Chicago guys.

Chicago, yeah. You know, we had heard a few years ago like kind of bubbling of some levels of mutual interest between the Mavericks and Anthony Davis. but you hear things like that all the time. And, you know, it obviously didn't happen back then. But the relationships with Anthony Davis, there's a very, very, very strong relationship. Right. So that's why they target him, right? But, you know, they don't.

And there's also some basketball reasons, too, which we'll get to. I get, I get that. But, okay, so let's say they tart. So, Bontem's, okay, they target Anthony Davis. That's who they want. And, you know, we'll get to the Laker side of this in a minute. But the, you know, he can come in and play four. which is what he wants.

You can play next to Lively. Gafford, he can get his power for, which is what he wants? Well, Lively's out for most, if not all, the rest of the regular season, but yes. Okay, but, you know, this is not a one-year move. By the way, just as, before we continue, just I was checking one stack, so it took a while to pull it up on my computer. We'll do a little whiz of the quiz for a second. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

And now to present today's trivia question, the whiz of the quiz of the quiz. Tim Bontemps. There are how many players, let me rephrase this. There are five active players who have made at least five first team all-n-b-eas. Who are they? Obviously, Luke is one of them. Does Tatum have, no. No, Tadam hasn't.

No. K.D. LeBron. LeBron. Steph. Nope. Chris Paul. No.

Wow. Steph hasn't made five first team all-M-M-BAT? That's an amazing stuff. They've both made four. Wow. There's two others. K.D. LeBron.

Luca. He has not. That's the center thing screwed up. Yokic hasn't made five yet. I think he's going to this year, I think. Well, he will this year, but he's only made four. Pardon. Pardon. Pardon. And one more.

There's one more. Another foreign guy. Janus. Janus. All three, all four of those other guys, the youngest one is 30. The other three are over, the other, the over three are in their mid to late 30s or 40. This guy is 25. Bontimes, you said it.

You said it. This isn't the big short. This is the gargantuan, Titanic short. Look, it's the most shocking trade in the history of the NBA. It's the biggest short in the history of the NBA. So knowing the Lakers are acquiring a 25-year-old who's got one of the most decorated resumes in the history of the league at age 25 short of winning a championship, they've identified Anthony Davis.

They don't get everything. Now, I understand why the Lakers are saying to the Mavericks, look, we are trained. trading our franchise center. We don't, we already were looking for another center. Now we don't have a center. We have to hold back the 2031 pick. That's a fine negotiating position. They didn't get both first round picks the Lakers have to trade. They didn't get Austin Reeves, who's having. Well, let me hold up. Let me hold up on the Austin Reeves part because they, in the financial position the Lakers were in. They couldn't necessarily get Austin Reeves in the construction of this deal. I actually think you can make an argument for the Lakers.

Max Christie is a more valuable piece to get. But Max Christie has become a legitimate three and D wing in the league. Right. And his contract is very good. He's on a four year deal. Austin Reeves is a one way player that's not a great fit with Kyrie. And when you look at the what Dallas did on the court, you can take Boston Reeves and you can move him somewhere else. You don't have to play for you. Well, I understand. I'm saying financially, financially it's hard to get them both in Detroit. I would rather have Max Christie. You have third teams. You could find that.

Okay, fine. Leave that out then. They don't get both picks. I mean, amazing. In other words, they were like, let's just do this deal. You know, if you have decided we can't rely on Luca, we have to move on from him, I think certainly there's an argument to be made of keeping that quiet and dealing with it in the summer. You know, if you put them on the block in the summer, there's a lot of,

okay, that's fine. There's no games being played. There's no practices, you know, whatever. Summer drama is. Well, but here, but this is the thing. But then that, then you can create. Well, but guys, guys, we're missing the point. The Mavericks might think they can win the West this year. Listen, the Mavericks do, the Mavericks do think they can win the West. This is very simple. The Mavericks said, we have a better, it's what you said, McMahon. They believe they have a better chance to win in the title this year. with this team than they did before. That's why you do the trade now.

And by the way, Max Christie is, Max Christie is the exact kind of guy they've been searching around trying to find is a guy who can be a primary on-ball defender. Look, I asked JJ Reddick tonight about Max Christie before the game. I talked to him about

Max Christie's emergence as a guy who's become a consistent starter for the Lakers. He comes out tonight. He had 15 points. Jane La Brunson did not have a great game in part because the defense Max Christie was playing on him. And, you know, I mean, the league is looking for six, five, six, six, two-way wings who can shoot and guard people. And Max Christie is turning into that kind of player. He's on a four-year, $32 million deal. He's 21 years old. Like, he's a very valuable

piece. And I think, like, I can see from that standpoint, why they went and did this. Now again, this is trying to build the best defense possible, and this is them saying, hey, we can't build a dominant defense with Luca. And when you look at the West.

But it is absolutely punning on, you know, like booting the most talented player in franchise history out the door. Oh, listen, I'm not trying to say that I would do the trade. I'm just saying like all this, like, yeah,

they could have auctioned them off in the summer, but this wasn't about auctioned them off. in the summer. Nico Harrison, identified Anthony Davis, said, I would rather have Anthony Davis. I would rather have Max Christie. I agree. They probably could have got, probably, I mean, should have got both picks. I would have got both picks in the trade. But like, they clearly are betting that Kyrie at the point with a ton of shooting and length around him and then a ton of size in the paint, which by the way, what if we talked about repeatedly with Oklahoma City? They struggle with size in the paint, right? The Mavericks are now a huge team at every position other than

Kyrie with the ball. So they've got long, athletic wings all over the place. They're playing big in the paint. They've got size to go up against Yokic. They've got size to go up against Memphis and Houston who want to brawl inside. Like, they've clearly identified that this is a way they believe they can win. Now, what I would say is, if you make this trade, you damn well, better win. Because this is a, again. Better win now. Because you guys in their 30s. That's what I'm saying. If you're shorting Luca like this, this group has got to win. Like there's no like, well, you know, Nico could say what he wants about now and in the future.

This ain't about in the future. This is, you've got Kyrie and you've got AD and you're trying to win today. Not in five years. By the way, since Max Christie went in the starting lineup, the Lakers are 15 and 8. Now, there's a lot of other factors in there. Look, the guy's shooting 39% from three over that stretch. And he was, he was really good tonight and has been really good for them for a while. I'm not trying to turn Max Grissy into a superstar.

I was getting ready to talk about. But he's not just to throw in. What you're saying is that they're not just using it to balance out the money. They viewed him as worth of maybe a first or even two. Still, though, you're trading a 25-year-old. Okay, let's switch over to the Lakers. Dave McMenheim and Schaams both report that LeBron did not know. Yeah.

I trust that reporting. I wonder when AD knew. And here's why I'm asking, because I had an executive, he hit me tonight. And he goes, because within an hour of the trade, announcement. Bobby Marks had confirmed that AD had waived his trade kicker, which they still could have done the trade. So AD was getting a $6 million bonus for being traded. He waived it. That would have been paid by the Lakers, but would have gone on the Mavericks books. And the reason why that's interesting is because that keeps the Mavericks out of the luxury tax. Yeah. So it helps the Mavericks

going forward here, potentially even doing something buyout-wise at the deadline here. Well, it's certainly a sign that AD isn't against the trade. Well, that's for darn sure. But it makes you wonder when AD found out because my guess is that that's a decision that doesn't. Well, whether he found out, whenever he found out, he might have found out, Nico might have called him and told him when everybody else found out. But waiving that trade kicker is a clear indication that he's perfectly fine,

going to Dallas. Yeah. And you know what? The thing with Luca and all the focus on the conditioning and, you know, that directly impacting the durability, all that kind of stuff, this is a massive slap in the face. Like, you are one of the best players at your age that's ever walked the face of the earth. And the team that had you said, we don't trust you. we don't want you, we're going to move on. If this doesn't get him to embrace the 24-hour, 365 day a year type of

commitment that it takes to maximize your potential and to ensure your availability as much as possible, then nothing ever will. And hey, that's what the Lakers are betting on, right? He's got a hell of a role model in LeBron, right? But you know what? He had a hell of a role model in Dirk and that didn't take as far as the diet, the conditioning, that kind of a commitment. Well, look, 29 out of 30 teams would have made this trade. There's really not a lot to discuss about whether the Lakers would have done it or not. Like, the universal reaction is the Mavericks. Oh, okay. Would the Thunder have made? Every other team. I'm not saying the Thunder, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Every team in the league, if they get the call, which this clearly was a

from the Mavericks to the Lakers, you can just look how it went. If you call and say, will you do this trade? Every team in the league is doing this trade. Like the thunder is interesting. I don't, I'm not certain about. You're not, that's an academic argument. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about putting Luca on any team.

I'm saying hypothetical team gets this call. Will you do this trade? Every team does this trade. Like, again, that's why it's the big. I don't think every team does it, but I don't want to keep going. Yeah, go on. I'm just talking about, I mean, again, it's not about. the individual teams in the league.

Like across the NBA, the universal reaction is, I can't believe the Lakers got Luca Donchich. That's why it's the biggest short. You short, no one else would short this guy like this. So the Lakers now, okay, so the Lakers made this move

not for this season. Lakers made this move for the next decade. Yeah. And I will say, it's like Rob Polinka for a couple of years now is like, you know, we're waiting for the big fish.

We're waiting for the big fish. And, you know, people are prodding him, you know, trade a first for Cam Johnson, trade a first for Jonas Valenshoonis. And he's like, we're waiting for the big fish, waiting for the big fish. And there was lots of eye rolls what happened. So I will say this, this is, this is a whale. So this is what he's waiting for. So now, let me just say this. Like, Lakers have to, you know, think about how they're going to, you know, how they're going to approach having Luca. That's a whole, that's going to be an organizational thing. You know that very well, McMahon. They ought to

hire McMahon as a consultant. Uh-huh. Well, and, you know, he comes with his own medical team. You know, he comes with his own nutritionist. He comes with a physiotherapist. He comes with his own strength coach. Well, LeBron came with people. I know.

And that's not unusual. There was some, again, there was a lot of frustration about a lot of things within the Mavericks and the work in relationship with that team. I don't think was the, with Lucas, quote, unquote, body team was, not the strongest. I'm not sure I would put that in my resume. Luca Bani team. Well, it's been suggested to me that would be difficult to find other employment in that field, given the results.

But more Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right. So what happens with LeBron here? And I don't know the answer. Oh, it's, you know what? The fascinating thing is this does, this is not a true. trade like that immediately is like an easy fit for the Lakers. Like who's starting at Center for him now?

I don't know. Jackson Hayes. I mean, you know, how does all, like you said, this isn't about, hey, let's maximize the, you know, the twilight of argument. Hey, listen, let's just be honest. They had to make room for Chris Wood. He's coming back soon. Had to clear it out.

Well, and I'm sure Lucas fired up to reunite with Christian Wood. But this is not about maximizing the twilight of this. you know, all-time rate, who, by the way, had a 30-something point triple double tonight. This is maybe even a step back from that. But it's about acquiring a guy who can be in that conversation among the greatest of the all-time grades. Well, listen, during the game today, Dave McBeneman, Dan Wojke and I, Dan Waikki from the L.A. Times, obviously, we all know Mike Ten and myself, were sitting on press row. and we spent the vast majority of the game debating who the Lakers could get with their two first round picks.

Now, we all basically thought it was an academic exercise because who's out there to get with the first round picks. And I said, I don't think anybody's out there to get for the first round picks. It's going to make a difference. Obviously, none of us saw this coming, makes it very amusing. But the undercurrent of the whole discussion was the Lakers were not good enough to win a title this year. They might have got a matchup and won a series. Maybe they could have won two series if everything broke right with this current group. For as well as they've played and JJ Redick has done a really good job, Max Christie has developed really well.

They move on from the edge of the Russell. They have Austin Reed's hand on the ball. Like all these things are true. JJ's maximized AD. 80's having a great year. But they weren't good enough. So this is an obvious move for them to get Luca Donchich at 25 to have him to build around going forward. And now the question is, can they put it?

a team around him over the next five to seven years, that's good enough to actually be a repeat championship contender. Because look, LeBron James has been in L.A. for seven years. For the last four of those years, yeah, the Lakers made a conference finals, but they have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot, and despite having A.D. and LeBron not had a team that was consistently good enough to be a true championship contender. So the question now is they have Luca Dantzic, but what can they put with them and what's the team going to look like? You guys know I feel winning a championship means never saying you're sorry. So like I didn't like some of the terms of the AD deal,

which is not even done paying off yet. I had to retire that. Yeah, for sure. Winning a championship means never saying you're sorry. So I stand on that and I believe that. Having said that, six plus years of AD and LeBron, AD in his prime, LeBron's still a high production. The Lakers, I wouldn't say they achieved the bare minimum,

but they achieved the low end. They won two titles. They won a, got a banner and a ribbon. I was like, wait a minute, what? And I fell right into that trap. Good job. Okay, so that's one thing I'll say, you know, because that book is now being closed,

the AD LeBron era. The second thing I'll say is, when AD went public last week with Shams saying basically get me a center, putting Rob Polinka on blast, it was further than, than he has gone before. LeBron does this annually.

A.D. has not done this unless my memory is flawed. He has not done this on the record in front of the camera saying, get me a center. And I do think, had that not happened, and the Lakers had a disappointing end of the season,

which we all thought they had for the play-in. They were overachieving from that. I mean, we talked last week about how they were maybe overachieving a little bit. But whatever, if the Lakers didn't have a great finish to the season,

I do think for the first time there could have been Anthony Davis getting a little agitated in the summer. So the Lakers might have felt a little tremor or two. But certainly, you know, and maybe that just greased this a little bit going well, you know,

as you said, Bontemp, there isn't a trade for them to do that was going to get Anthony Davis excited maybe. Maybe that played some factor into why the Lakers were like, let's absolutely go. No, no, no, no. What are you doing? The Lakers did this because, of course, they did.

No, I get that. They're so debating it. They took the call and said, yes, we'll do the trade. No, I understand. But there was a little bit of a tremor with a, with A, with A.D. So. I don't, I don't think that had anything to do with this. If that hadn't happened, they would have done the same thing.

The thing that I think is interesting to watch now, as I'm thinking about this in real time, over the next five days, is Austin Reed's doesn't really fit with the Lakers anymore. And if I am the Lakers this week, I personally, as I react to this real time and think about it, I'm thinking long and hard about trading Austin Reeves today. Because Austin Reeves right now is owed $12.9 million this year and $13.9 million next year. And then he's got a player option. He ain't going to pick up the following year. And his trade value is probably never going to be higher than it is right now. And if you could turn him into some significant stuff, whether it's draft picks, whether it's maybe some, maybe some size inside,

which is there maybe somebody to play center? I mean, I think that is a very interesting domino to watch over the next few days. Now, maybe they don't do anything with Austin Reeves. I don't have any reporting on this, to be clear. I'm not saying I know he's getting traded. I have no idea. But just thinking about it, if you have eight, if you have LeBron, Luca, and Austin Reeves, that's three guys who have the ball a lot who aren't playing a lot of defense. And it's going to hard to have a balanced team with all of them and Austin Ree's value is probably never going to be higher than it is on this contract for the next 18 months. That's true, which is one of the reasons if I was Dallas, I would have gotten him because his value is high. Well, like I said,

I would rather have Christie, I think. I agree. And so, but let's get back to LeBron. I think that's a, until we hear from LeBron, that's a, as they said in Seinfeld, it's a pretty big matzo ball. Yeah, it's a huge one. Now, having said that, LeBron, has always been a massive fan of Luca. Without question. You know, there's a one of the chapters in the book that's coming out that I hope I can figure out a way to add to the interview is, you know, begins with when LeBron and Luca played very early in Luca's rookie season and they had a meeting in mid-court after

the game and the cameras caught it. And LeBron said, you a bad mother, mm-mm. You know, and LeBron, like LeBron, LeBron, like LeBron, talked about, hey, he tried to sign Luca as like to his shoe line. LeBron doesn't have, by the way, like LeBron, it's not like the Jordan brand where they have a bunch of guys.

LeBron doesn't have like athletes on his label. He wanted Luca to be the first. Right. He's been a huge fan of Luca. How it worked at a team is going to be fascinating. I'll never forget. I guess I can tell this story now. So during the 2003 finals,

the Denver finals, I got a call in the middle of game two from someone who would know that said that Kyrie, and this ended up getting reported. I think it was Shams actually at the time who was at the Athletic who reported it. But I got a call and said

that Kyrie would really like LeBron to come to Dallas and play with him and Luca. And LeBron had an option in his contract, and, you know, forget about all the machinations of what would have to happen. I mean, but, you know, Kyrie was a free agent and LeBron was a free agent, could be a free agent. It wasn't impossible. And so the game ended and I walk into the arena or into the bowl, I should say, and I run smack dab into Rich Paul. Now, this is kind of rare where you have a root trade rumor and then literally within 10 minute, 15 minutes, you can speak to face to face to the agent.

I said, hey, listen, I just got this call, and I heard that Kyrie, let's just say with somebody associated with Kyrie, wants to play with LeBron and Dall. And Rich says, LeBron would love to play with Kyrie in L.A. Have him come to L.A. You know, and he'd love to play with Luca in L.A. someday. You know, let's get Luca to L.A. And, of course, he went nowhere. Karee re-signed. LeBron's been a Laker.

But one of the reasons Kyrie did that, we had to did the reach out. was because of Luca being there. He saw that possibility. And that was the summer where the Lakers decided to re-sign their team instead of going after Kyrie. Yeah, and this was also the summer that the Mavericks were coming off, having just traded for Kyrie, and ended up tanking the last week of the regular season

because things went so haywire. Right. So there is some LeBron Luca. Kyrie doesn't try that move unless he knew that Luke would be, a draw. So I definitely, but also there's a, you know, the old two timeline thing. There's a two timeline thing here, you know, so. Well, there was already a two timeline thing, though. Like LeBron after the game today, I, it's, I mean, it's, I mean, it feels like it was 500 years ago, but he openly called Anthony Davis their best player. Anthony Davis was nine years younger than him.

So like, it's not like, like, yes, Lucas, 15. years younger than him. But like LeBron, like, it's not like the timeline lined up for this was going to work out for LeBron anyway. Right, but the team was constructed. Like, you know, the Lakers can look you square in the face. They can extend Luca this

summer. They can't give him the Supermax, but they can extend them. Whether Luca wants to do that or not, we'll see because he's got two years left. But assuming that he does extend with the Lakers, I mean, I have seen no reason why he wouldn't. Lakers are going to have a runway where they're going to retrofit their team. And you say, Bontem's

about a Reeves trade, if there's a Reeves trade or, you know, they use the other pick, that's going to be to build around Luca, you know, not obviously. So look, LeBron might come out tomorrow or I don't know when the Lakers are available next. The broad may come out tomorrow and be like, thank you very much, AD. He might tweet tonight. Thank you very much, A.D. Luca, I look forward to being with you and finishing out my career with you and it's put to bed. But until we hear that, I just, we didn't, we haven't heard it. That's all. I mean, that's all secondary, though, really. I mean, it's one of the rare times where...

It's not secondary if he says maybe I need to look around. But it is secondary because this is, it doesn't matter. That's what I mean. Like, it doesn't, whatever LeBron's reaction... No, it doesn't. What matters if he wants to get traded to another team in the league right now. It might matter just a little bit to that. That's again.

That's not... It matters. It matters in the aggregate. My point is it doesn't matter to the Lakers. Like, LeBron's reaction to the trade is irrelevant to the Lakers. because you don't do they apparently didn't tell him if you're to believe that yes but that that's what I mean the Lakers do if LeBron if they had said to LeBron hey LeBron we have an offer to trade AD for Luca what do you think LeBron says guys we got a great thing going teams rolling let's roll with

AD that may be by the way that may be one of the reasons why they didn't go to him because they didn't want to have it on his plate I'm just saying whether it was on his place right but one of the reasons why you keep LeBron in the dark is number one he's not, he's now not your future anyway. And two, he doesn't, he has plausible the liability to say that I didn't ship AD out of town. I mean, yes, I agree. My point is only that, I agree. It was all hypothetical. My point is only that. It doesn't matter what LeBron's opinion is because you, if you're the Lakers, you have to do this trade every time. You have to make the bet on Luca Dachshach. It does, it matters now what LeBron's opinion is. It matters to

the lead what, what LeBron's opinion is. It also matters to Lakers. I mean, I agree with you that you do the deal without independent of LeBron. You may even be doing him a favor by not going to him, but I think now his opinion matters. Yes, I agree his opinion matters. Yes, if he decides, yes, I, right. My point is only that if LeBron decides now he wants to get traded, what I'm saying is, and maybe I'm not making it clear enough, that shouldn't have precluded the Lakers in doing the trade, and it won't be a bad trade if LeBron decides he wants to leave now.

I agree. Okay. That's all. We don't know if it's a good or bad trade yet. but it could be one of the great trades in Laker history, but we'll see. McMahon, where do we think the Mavericks stack up in the Western Conference? They've been sliding very badly with Luca. Well, and, yeah, and, you know, I've said over and over and over again,

like if they get healthy, I still think they're dangerous, but this is a completely different team. Because, you know, when you talked about the Mavericks as championship contenders, the number one reason that you put them in that category was because of this guy who last year led the entire postseason in points, rebounds, assists, and steals, which had never been done before. Again, they are betting that they can put together one of the NBA's best defenses, that bringing in Anthony Davis, you know, that adding Max Christie, you know, another on-ball defender. can allow them to build an elite defense. And then they're obviously betting on the health and durability of two stars in their 30s who have had their own pretty significant durability issues.

You know, Anthony Davis is banged up right now. You know, Kyrie's managing this bulging disc in his back. And, you know, he's played 39 games this year. But, you know, he's got some stuff going on. So let me ask you this. So now they have the Laker pick. I don't know. I'm not necessarily saying that you definitely trade Daniel Gafferter, PJ Washington,

but you could. You have Quentin Grimes, who's got value. You're under the aprons. I mean, hell, you got Clay Thompson. If they can trade Luca Donch, they can trade anybody. Oh, you got that right. I mean, you know. Are the Mavericks in position to, are the Mavericks in position to make another move?

I'm never going to say that the Mavericks aren't in position to make another move, because one thing we've learned with Nico Harrison is they are always aggressive. You know, they have made massive trades before every single trade deadline that he's been in charge of, dumping Chris Taps for Zingis, getting Gary Irving at a massive discount, you know, getting Daniel Gafford and PJ Washington and PJ Washington in separate deals last year. Now this. Trades that got, trades that got panned at the time, by the way. You know, again, so Max Christie is the kind of guy that they've been hunting around for because they needed another. They've asked PJ Washington to be their primary on ball defender. That's putting probably a little bit too much on his plate. I think Max Christie can help fill that void. But, yeah, I promise you that Nico's not going to stop charging his cell phone before the trade.

I think they are going to continue to be aggressive. You know, they had that, they had, I'll say this, they had the Kyle Kuzman trade fall apart last year because of the mythical no trade clause. You know, if they're trying to recreate as much of that Lakers title roster, he's certainly still available. Well, looking at the Mavericks roster, again, I'm just trying to process this as we go along and think about it. They are very short now on shotgun.

creation. They really only have Kyrie. I mean, they have Spencer did what he was... Didn't what is their second shot creator. Yeah, PJ has taken on some of that, but I agree with you. It's part of, and it's part of why the team has been struggling. Now, obviously, they're about to get Anthony Davis. He will

give them a ton of production, but he's not a shot creator. He's more of a play finisher. So, I mean, I mean, look, the other thing you got to think about again, like Derek Lively is an interesting trade piece over the next week. I mean, Derek Laugley is hurt. We'll see if he can go back this year. Certainly Derek Lively would have value in the market.

They try to turn him into something. And, you know, again, this is a Maverg team that is trying to win right now. So maybe they can use their, again, this is me just spitballing. It's not to be clear for the aggregators. But like, it will be surprising if Dallas comes out of the trade deadline in five days and doesn't have another fairly good shot creator, you would think, on the roster to try to give Kyrie some extra cushion. Especially, like you said, McMahon, not only is Kyrie a risky bet for all the reasons we've talked about over the years, but we're talking about a guy who's a smaller guard in his early 30s now who's got a back issue. Like that is a lot to put on his plate.

And if he's not able to go as his team is constructed, they're not going to really have any chance. So you got to assume there's going to be some sort of reinforcement. there one way or the other over the next few days. Well, and they're also, you know, they can get involved in the buyout market now. Now, you know, guys get bought out for a reason. I do think that the buyout market tends to be the most, like, overhyped thing that happens in the India world. I just thought of this.

Because of the new rules, anybody making over the average player salary, just somewhere around 12 million or so, is ineligible to be acquired by teams over the first. but a guy who'd be unbelievable in Dallas if he gets bought out, and we'll see if he gets bought out, is Lonzo Paul. Yeah. And like, if Lonzo would obviously be a guy that could walk on his team, also clutch guy, you know. But that, you know, just thinking about it again, like, he would be a tremendous fit with this team. So, yeah, look, they got a lot of different avenues they can go in. They've got picks they can throw in trades.

They've got some interesting mid-level salaries to move around. They got a lot of stuff they can do, which you'd have to assume they're going to add some other shot creator over the next week to try to give them some more scoring punch now that Lucas out the door. Yeah. All right. Well, there's a lot more to come, and we'll be talking about it. And we've got to get Jackson at some point to bet here.

So thank you. Great reporting tonight, McMahon. More in the future. Thank you very much, Mr. Bontemps. Thank you to Jackson and Raffar producers. Thank you for listening. watching The Hoop Collective. They just called my group, so I think I've got to go bored. We'll talk to you soon. Adios amigos. Adios Luca. Adios. Adios, that amico for sure.