Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - EMERGENCY POD: NBA Announces Clippers’ Punishments After Kawhi Probe Reaction

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon to react to the punishments given to the Clippers by the NBA after the probe into their dealings with Kawhi. The guys break down what this means for the future of the Clippers, if the punishment makes sense and if this will impact Kawhi moving forward in Toronto. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. Welcome to the collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Wednesday evening.

Joining me from Dallas, Texas, where I just was earlier today, saw him last night. Is Van McMahon. Howdy, partners. It was a pleasure to see you, Wendy, especially since I do have to give you credit, you picked up the dinner check. I was gator arm and you came through. Yeah. I made a request that went above and beyond the constraints of my contract,

And, you know, you didn't have to go through any loops to deliver. Well, we have a serious topic on the podcast, but I'll just tell you that in a fascinating thing, Jackson, McMahon ordered a dish at this restaurant. And then the waiter was like, you don't want that dish, you want this dish. And McMahon was like, okay. I think it was a strange. I would not have, you know, had the guts as a waiter to tell this man his business.

But he was no problem. He listens to the waiter like that, and he knows. never listens to me like that. That's what I'm saying. He never met this man before. The guy made us wait 30 minutes to order practically. And then he comes over and he's like, no, you don't want that. I know.

He suggested it. He suggested the salmon. And as you know, Wendy, that's usually where I go anyway. Well, speaking of waiting a long time to get the results, how about that? That's the best I could do. Smooth. To move into the news of the day, week, month.

Maybe even longer. All season. Possibly. Yeah. The NBA comes down with its ruling against the Clippers today. I'm sure you know it by now. It's crushing. It's a crushing a penalty.

It's as close to the SMU death penalty as you get in the NBA. Well, I don't know. It was a death penalty. I said it's as close. Yeah. I mean, they didn't give them a postseason ban, but everything but that. So there's multiple. layers here. I think I'm going to try to do it in three. Who knows if we can keep this organization.

But there's the details of the report itself, which this report for being a legal document, this, whoever wrote it has some writing background. Like it was, I mean, it's not going to rival Wright Thompson or, you know, Ernest Hemingway. But from a legal standpoint, it's, this is a narrative document. Easy reading. Easy. Easy. unless you're a clippers fan. Right. Well, if you're a clippers fan, I don't even now, you get through it. So the details in here are pretty crushing. There's the actual fight that is now going to happen between the Clippers and NBA.

As much as the Clippers can fight, I don't know if they're going to be able to. And then there's three what's going to be in the future for the Clippers, I think. So I don't know where you want to start, McMahon, but The details are pretty savage. The initial big scoop by Pablo Torre was, hey, there's this really shady deal that's a pretty easily traceable to the Clippers thing with Kauai getting $28 million from aspiration. And then there was like, oh, plus there was $20 million in equity, which obviously ended up being worthless. And then months later it came out, oh, by the way, there was another deal with Daktronics. So the Dactronics thing, not to cut you off.

As soon as the Dextronics thing, I think I said it on the pod, like that felt like a straight kickback. And, oh, by the way, the league says halfway there, there were two more. That's right. Boingo and what, Lockton, I think it is, some insurance company. And those deals, they had a bunch of documentation. They had a bunch of, I mean, the president of. business operations here is all over this thing. Like she is...

Well, yeah, I think if you want to say a headline on this, I hate to... 18 million dollars in kickback deals plus the aspiration deals would have added... We're already meandering. But I would say the headline is Steve Ballmer was not accused of much direct wrongdoing. He was accused or maybe even, I guess you could say convicted, basically of lack of institutional control. They basically said, you should have known and we think you kind of did know. They don't really accuse him.

Well, the exact language of the NBA's press release is Balmer is suspended from all league and team activities for one year for knowingly seeking to help Mr. Leonard obtain off-court income opportunities for approving a business deal that he knew was a precondition for aspiration to enter into an endorsement agreement with Mr. Leonard and for his failure to create conditions under which his organization. Abided by the NBA circumvention rules. Yeah. So the third one, yeah, the third one is the all-encompassing way. And listen, the simple fact of the matter is, this ain't the first time Steve Ballmer pulls some of the shady stuff. That did not help his case. They gave him a little slap on the wrist for the DeAndre Jordan stuff in 2015. A $250,000 fine.

It was, oh, whoops, we didn't know. And then, you know, there's the investigation after the Kauai signing. because guess what? It's not like Uncle Dennis only asked the clippers for a whole bunch of under the table stuff. He was asking everybody for under the table stuff. Oh, geez, you know, we were asked, but we didn't give them anything.

And now this. So they're, in a way, they're three-time losers. That's true. Julian Zucker, they call her essentially a liar. Yeah. And obfuscator, a rule. They implicate indirectly her husband.

She was suspended without pay for a year for being primarily and directly culpable for the impermissible endorsement arrangements and for providing false and misleading statements to investigators. Yeah. She, and if you read the report, they destroy her. I said, she's the star of the report. Yeah, they basically indicate that she directed it, that. that she basically asked for these kids. I mean, you know, the report basically. She directed it and then very clumsily attempted to cover up for an e-mails by acting like,

oh, we're just connecting after all the connecting behind the scenes have been done, they uncovered it. What the, the Clippers put out a statement and basically what it looks like is that the Clippers are not denying that these endorsement deals happened. They're not denying the Kauai got this money. They're not denying that these are companies. I mean, Boingo Wireless does advertise, but they don't advertise. They've never advertised with NBA endorsers that I'm aware of. There's also the little thing of typically when you sign a guy to a multimillion dollar endorsement deal,

he actually endorses something. Well, that's, well, there's some asterisk's in there that he did do a thing or two, but they can wiggle out of that, like, they can wiggle out of that circumstantially. But obviously, if you were on a jury, you would convict. There's a preponderance of evidence. If you were on a jury, you would convict. And so what the Clippers vehemently reject the NBA's findings, which are the result of a heavily biased investigation deba.

And honestly, like, that may want to read. They're throwing mud at each other. That statement that the Clippers put out, even though it was written with more control gave me flashbacks to Dan Gilbert's letter when LeBron left. Yeah. And there's that statement. There's the letter that the lawyer sent to the commissioner that the Clippers also put out there. We're all over the place here.

We're all over the place. Just let's move backwards, move backwards. Okay. I'm sorry. It's both of our fault. It's both. No, it's your fault. It's your fault.

It's your fault. It's your fault. It's my fault. This is the argument that is the basis of the disagreement, okay? the Clippers are saying that, yeah, these companies did business with Kauai, but we are allowed to introduce companies if the companies want to meet him or if Kauai wants to meet him. And the NBA is saying, here's the million and six ways that you violated the rules. Exactly. So there's the legal argument, and I don't want to get into this, but I'm just going to say what it is, the legal argument. is an affirmative versus responsive.

But basically, if Kauai were to say to the Clippers, I would really like to meet the people from Daktronics. I think I could do great work for them endorsing their product. The Clippers would say, oh, well, let's get you together for a Zoom call with their president. Or if Dactronics said, hey, we think that Kauai is a dynamic guy. We love the way he looks on our scoreboards. can you get us in touch with him and we can do a deal? The Clippers are saying that that's what they did,

that they acted as the middleman and they operated within the rules. And the league is saying, not only did you not do that, you tried to cover it up and you flagrantly didn't do that. And they got all kinds of stuff from like Clippers employees based saying this stuff's got red flags all over it. They've got the order of operations in terms of, you know, this Zucker lady

setting everything up and then sending emails acting like that was the introductory email. I mean, listen, the Clippers statement is basically who you're going to believe me or your lying eyes and ears. Right. And so I mean, like a big factor that was going. It's like we've got to get

a comminga reference. It's like the part-time podcast guest who represents comming on the side. I don't want to talk about that. Let everybody else talk about that. At a certain point, when you screw up royally, you should shut up. That's the advice I will give Aaron Turner and the LA Clippers. All right. I would agree with that. I think the Clippers should accept this penalty,

and I think they got off relatively easy, and I'll explain that in a minute. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, joined thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca. Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand, the high-protein yogurt, Oikos Pro, is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge

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Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover coffee plus on espresso.com. The clippers have had a tool in this. And the tool was that they were building this arena. Okay? So because they were building this arena and they were doing business with a whole bunch of

extra companies, extra vendors, it had all these different pathways that they could look essentially, potentially for partnerships, you know? And so, you know, Dactronics, you're not buying $100 million worth of Dactronics stuff every year, but when you're building your arena, you are, and Dactronics, and you know, this is one thing that Pablo's,

you know, I felt the most, in all honesty, and you can go back and listen to the podcast, we did afterwards. I felt the most compelling thing. Pablo breaking the story was amazing. He's already won a Pulitzer and a Murrow Award. Like, he's, you know, it's gone great for him. But the Dactronics thing, to me, really was a huge thing from my perspective,

because that was just a great A kickback. And so because they were building that arena, and here's the other thing, Dactronics very clearly, like the investigators don't quote the people, you know, you're trusting Wachtel Lippton to a certain degree, but considering you're putting this against a man with over $100 billion, I find their credibility reasonable. I would find them reasonable. But Dactronics does business with virtually every NBA team.

They intend to do business, I assume, with many NBA teams into the future. They were highly, highly incentivized to do two things. One, they were highly incentivized to do this deal with the clippers. Because as Pablo did in his reporting and Hunterbrook Media, they were in partnership there, they pointed out that Dachronics had hit a rough patch and really kind of needed the deal. I mean, anybody could use $100 million order. But in that particular point, their finances were struggling. So they needed to do it.

And it's, I mean, the details in this report make it clear that Dactronics basically opened up and said what happened. Yeah, well, I, which is going to be tough because I don't know if Dachronics is going to be able to put in the massive TV that Balmer's going to need in his house next season and watch Clippers game. I would say not. And so, and this insurance company locked in insurance, I believe they, you know, did the insurance for the construction of the building. And obviously, a lot of wireless is needed as a new building. So that, you know, and so, and who doesn't need some trees outside. Well, and that's another thing that's just really tough

in there. So I really kind of want to, and even in the opening paragraphs of the report, Wachtel-Lipton lawyers basically say we know that this Joe Sandberg guy who was running aspiration and is now in a federal penitentiary, we know he's not credible. And so

we were very cautious. Like, this report is not based on what he said. Totally. But they have stuff in there from him. And, you know, there was, they basically lay out that the clippers wanted to do a carbon credit deal. By the way, this carbon credit thing, with all due respect for the environment, I want to help the environment just as the next guy, but this carbon credit thing is a scam from day one,

which is a whole other topic. Clearly, the guy's sitting in the pokey right now. I mean, like, the one defense that I heard on the clippers that made sense to me because I'm all about what makes sense was that this guy was running a Ponzi scheme selling freaking carbon credits, whatever that means, and

that he needed to keep Balmer's investment going, and so he paid off Kawhi Leonard to keep Balmer's investment going that was a Ponzi scheme. That was actually a defense that I could understand. I honestly thought everything that's come out of the Clippers' mouth since this started has been extremely flimsy, and

it keeps getting less and less Man, I got to tell you, man. I said this to you. Again, I keep referring to this, this podcast that we did after Daktronics. I had friends swear to me that this was bunk. I've talked to Clippers people, too, who lied to my face. I mean, I talked to Steve. I mean, I get, there was one moment before a Clippers game this year where, but people wouldn't come up and talk to them.

Like, Steve would come out before Clippers games for you. years and you could just go up and talk to him. Frankly, a lot of times I talk to him about golf. Shocker. Okay. I am stunned by that. You talking to a rich guy about golf? I can't imagine. And I was talking to him and we were talking about the investigation and he said, they can't prove I knew. I didn't know. They can't prove it. Nah, well. And, you know, he was. Well, then it gets back to lack of institutional control and honestly, how did you not know? And by the way, all these penalties we're talking about, it's at least five first round picks. It's at least $30 million because one very important line here,

Wachtel Lipton continues to receive information relevant to the investigation, and the league will consider further action as appropriate. So this might just, like, they might keep stacking stuff on, just like all the companies started like it went from one to two. now it's four like and the league's basically saying hey we might just be getting started here but look they had to come to they needed a conclusion for the simple fact that a massive trade was being held up okay well let's talk about that so the clippers put out the clippers put out two statements tonight one was a public facing statement and one was a letter at adam silver

where it was um in legally you know in lawyer lee way was a borderline rant Yeah. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't exactly the Dan Gilbert thing, which was a great A rant, but this was a legal. It was wow, wow, wow. You're not being fair. Yeah. Basically, it was like, you treated us poorly. And at one point, there was like something and they were like, to what end, question mark.

Like, you know, like they were. Yeah, it was sort of yelling at him. It was totally ridiculous. But in there, in this, in this thing, they basically say, we're going to try every legal. avenue we can to fight this. They basically are like, we're going to fight. And my guess is that the fight is going to be over the words affirmative and responsive. But let me tell you something. Here's my unsolicited advice to the Clippers organization, accept the penalty and ask for one provision that no more penalties are levied. Yeah. I would say cut your losses would be why.

And I'm going to give you a couple of reasons why. Number one, they have not seen. said it's impossible to still do this Kauai trade. Kauai put out a statement, which by the way, Kauai's statement, as an aside, has a absolute, incredible line in it. I mean, I'd like to break down the Kauai statement just as a real quick thing.

Hey, I've got, I wrote a haiku that summarizes it. Well, let's go through it first, and you can say it until the end. This is Kauai's statement. integrity and respect for this game are fundamental to who I am. That is absolutely never going to be true again. I mean, this is an all-time great whose career has been tainted by shadiness for years now. Go on. I accept full responsibility.

Okay. Now the statement's improving. Wait, for what? For lapses in judgment. Okay. He's moving a little bit away. Okay, go on. I accept full responsibility for latches and judgment by people within my inner circle.

Oh. Kauai didn't know. Where's this? We got 18 million here. There's 28 million here. Boy, where's all this coming from? Like the first four words are pretty good. I accept full responsibility.

Then the next like seven words for lapses and judgment. Oh, well, judgment. Okay. Lapses is implies like only. any partial blame, but we're okay by people within my inner circle. And regret. The distraction, the situation has caused the fans and my family. What about the Clippers?

You've been an absolute disaster. By the way, what about the Raptors who you left because you got a shady deal with the Clippers? Well, that's what he says. He says a bunch of other stuff. I don't really care about any of it. They says his last sentence is, as I return to Toronto, which is basically like, By the way, I'm going to Toronto and I'm going to get paid. We're going to talk about the Kauai part about this in a minute.

As I return to Toronto, I am focused on what I can control. Closing this chapter and I'm moving forward to clean slate. Clean slate. It's behind me. Don't bring it up again. Hey, 700 grand. Here you go. Shoot, that's, I mean, he's still up, what? Let me do the math. 45.3 million. So my haiku. Whoops. My bad, commish. It's all Uncle Dennis's fault.

On to Toronto. My God. We had a poet and didn't know it, Jackson. I won a poetry contest in I think it was third grade, which is also the year that I got busted lying about Jim McMahon being my uncle. But anyways, not that my integrity is not appropriate. He is no longer banned McMahon. He's the bard of the hoop collected. That's pretty good.

The 575, boom, boom. I want to glaze it onto a plate and put it. it behind you on your on your mantle there. We could put it on a plane and present it to Kauai when he returns to the into it. Oh, he can put it right next to the plant. Remember the guy gave him the plant in Toronto when he won the title? All right. Here is why I think the clippers should seriously consider dropping whatever appeal they've got, which is, you know, Steve Balmer is worth $100 billion in angry and you're not going to tell him what he's going to do. So good luck. I understand

they're not going to do this, but I'm going to make a case, my own case now. If they are allowed to do this trade, which I checked on this and basically I was told they can, you know, the raptors and clippers, if they want, can bring the trade to the league to get it done. They basically said, go through the process. They didn't say no. Okay. Okay. Now, if I were the raptors, I would consider trying to alter the terms of this trade because the clippers are in a really tough position and we're going to watch that going forward. But the raptors are not exactly looking forward to welcoming Brandon. It's not like Brandon Ingram would come back. The Raptors are in a tough spot either, or as well.

And the best thing here for Kauai, for the Raptors, and frankly for the Clippers is there's no suspension for Kauai. So you don't have to, like, if it's a 20-game suspension, then you're talking about, okay, well. Trivia question, McMahon. What were the Timberwolves, what was their penalty in 2000 when the Joe Smith salary cap circumvention happened? I'd first round picks originally. And that's a big word. Glenn Taylor was suspended. McHale was suspended.

No, no. Hold on. Oh, the contract was nuked. Originally. The contract was nuked. And the contract was nuked. They'd no longer had the player. Right.

And that would have been either, yeah, nuke in the last year, the contract, even like a lengthy suspension would have been a real problem as far as his trade. That's right. So they, Kauai is, free to be, to my knowledge and, you know, Kawai is free to be traded. With a clean slate, he says. And they're going to get two first round picks for him,

assuming that the deal. And by the way, the two first round picks, those are the only two first round picks they own that don't have swap rights attached to them now. They're unprotected picks in 29 and 31. Because as we said, they've lost picks from 29 to 33, the 29 pick that got taken away was the Indiana pick. Right? So they have, all they have left in their draft coffers now is this year's pick, which is going to be swapped to either Denver or OKC, whichever's worse. That ain't going to be a good pick.

But still, they're going to have a pick in the 2027 draft, which they can trade. I agree. It's probably not going to be a good pick. And then they've got a Philly swap in 29. That one's top three protected. We'll see where Philly is. I'm just saying. But then these Toronto picks are the only ones that they would have.

There aren't like swap rights with the team that's. Right. But you're like, you're saying only like it's not like they're still going to, if they accept this penalty and the Kauai trade goes through, they're still going to have four first round picks. Yeah. They're still going to have them.

Now they can't trade them, uh, those other picks because you get into, um, you get into step in. But, it's it's not it's not like they're not going to have a pick

for a decade. The other thing is, the other thing is they are extremely lucky that this investigation dragged and wasn't before this year's draft. That's, and before they agreed to the Kauai trade. Yeah.

Okay, so that's two things. But imagine before this year's draft and they were said, hey, that fifth overall pick, you ain't getting that. Exactly. My God. So, okay, so you again, assuming the Kauai trade happens and they're not going to adjust the terms, they're still going to have four first-round picks that they can make in the next five years. Now, they may not be great picks, but they're going to have them.

Next seven years. Next seven years. No, picks, you're 29 and 31. Their picks are 27, 29, 31, and 33. They're going to have two and 29, my friend, because they're going to have the Raptors pick in 29 and 31. and they're going to have their pick in 27 and their pick in 29. Hold on. I mean, double check here.

I'm pretty certain you've got the Raptor stuff. What are they getting from the Raptors? Oh. All right. While you're looking that up, I'm going to keep going. McMahon said the word originally to the, to the Wolves penalty. That's right. It was originally five first round picks.

But guess what? it ended up being three because they followed the rules, they allowed themselves to, yep. The Raptors agreement was unprotected picks in 2031 and 233. Okay, I want to apologize to you. Now, there is a 27 swap,

so they would be swapping the worst of Denver and OKC for whatever Toronto's is. Okay, but I see... And then two second rounders. I see everybody saying, okay, I see everybody saying, oh my God, Kauai cost, you know, they're throwing the Paul George trade in and they're saying Kauai cost them 10 firsts and two swaps. Ten firsts and swaps and, by the way, Shade Gildis Alexander.

I agree. Hold on, my friends, as Lee Korsal would say, not so fast, sweetheart. What if they get these two firsts back and they have two other firsts that they're, that they've already swapped so they're not trading them because it's, or they're, you know, they can't penalize these teams. I know what they could do with those. they can call Sam Presti and say, hey, well, you're seeing the Shay, we'll send you these picks. Yeah, well, that's a different story. Now, here's the other thing. As I just said, the wolves got two of those picks back.

Do you know why they got the two those two picks back? Because they took their punishment and shut the hell up. They didn't put out statements. They didn't put out open letters. They didn't sue. At this point, the clippers just need to try not to get this worse. Okay. And they're not, I don't, I can't imagine.

imagine them getting anything back with his damning as this is. Well, we're in a rough spot right now, but it's not too late. So Stern made them wait for a year. And in 2001, he gave them back one pick. And then 2003, he gave him back a second. Not a second rounder, a second first round pick. I'll be honest with you, man. I'm wondering if this ends up with Balmer, just throwing a fit and saying,

the hell with it, I'm going to cash in and getting whatever would be $6 billion, $7 billion, $8 billion for a team you pay two bill for. That's fascinating. I can't see him doing that, but we're out of the realm of normal operations. This is like emotional. Right, but like sometimes you hire an attorney to get you the best plea bargain you can get. Now, I have to believe. I'm going to phrase this.

That's the hell the way to go about a plea bargain. Insult the judge. Well, it happens. It happens. I'm going to phrase this carefully. I have to believe there was discussions with the Clippers and the NBA about what amounted to a plea bargain, believe before this happened. I mean, the Clippers are claiming via this letter that they were completely blindsided. No, they were blindsided that the penalty was coming down.

Okay. I'm, I'm, dude, go on, make your point. And they may not have known everything that was in the report. I don't argue that. But if they could, if they could get an agreement, if they could plead guilty, get an agreement and say, we're not going to challenge any of these penalties. And they get an agreement that there'll be no further penalties. Basically, they'll say that these five first-round picks are all encompassing. They cover everything.

It's a blanket to agreement. And they keep their nose clean. They might, and they do the Kauai trade, they might be able to come out of this without four broken limbs. They may be able to come out of this with less damage. Well, if they don't want to get their limbs broken, they need to stop doing rocks at the league office. I agree, which is why I'm saying. Listen, here's a quote. nonetheless, this is from the letter, with less than an hour's warning and no opportunity to respond,

the league has issued a report and accompanying press release purporting to conclude the exact opposite of what it has said privately. Like, the league puts out a thing from this law firm detailing a long list of lies from the Clippers, and the Clippers' response is saying, you're a bunch of liars. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research.

Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. New from an espresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving.

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I want to talk about some of the people who come out of this who seem like they came out of this okay start with Kauai he pays 700,000 restitution and by the way, that was for them paying for like flights and hotel rooms and like you know stuff that they weren't supposed to pay for outside of his contract not for these endorsement deals

And endorsement deals. He's keeping that money. Like they, they, they, this report says that Kauai was paid $21 million by Dactronics, the insurance company and Boingo Wireless by 2021. Then he does the deal with aspiration. And he got paid up for a couple of years on that. Yeah. So he got he, he, he's up dozens of millions of dollars. Yes.

And so he pays 700,000. And here's the thing. He doesn't get suspended. because $700,000 is like two games. Yeah. Two and a half games. Okay. Game checks.

All right. Secondly, if the trade happens, McMahon, do you think the Raptors are still extending him? Of course. You're not giving up two first-round picks to not extend the guy. This dude's getting extended. Yeah. It ain't going where he wants to go.

I don't know if he wants to go there, but he has to go there. He has to get out. I do think he, I mean, he directed his way to Toronto. I know, but I mean, if he ranked his choices, I'm not sure that that's where. I don't want to get into that. What's the, was it? This is like those movies where the guy just walks away unscathed and the world's burning behind him.

Yes, let me ask you this. When Kauai gets announced, it's, again, assuming the trade happens, when Kauai gets announced on opening night, are they of cheering in Toronto? Yeah. He won the, the banners up there, right? I mean, the banner's up there and he's back. I think they are cheering. I think they are cheering. Listen, Kauai's arrival at least gives the Raptors reason to hope that they can be a legitimate contend.

They weren't going to be without getting a guy like that. Listen, the Eastern Conference teams do not want this trade to happen. The Raptors improve in this trade. And maybe Kauai has heard all year and plays, you know, 20 games. But, like, there's at least the ceiling is significantly higher. with Kauai Littern in a Raptor's uniform. All right. Let's talk about Lawrence Frank.

He got six months and not a year for, this isn't a legal term, but I'll paraphrase, singing like a canary. Right. So in the case of Minnesota, back in the day, Kevin McHale had to go out for a year with no pay.

I think they called it a leave of absence. They didn't call suspension, but he got a year with no pay. Lawrence Frank, despite the clippers not doing that well the last couple years, to the point where they basically started a blow up this last season, he got a contract extension. And he thought it was hush money, but apparently not. That's what's fascinating.

People, from what I understand, like, when that got announced or like it leaked, the league office didn't know what's happening. And they, you know, regardless of, what they knew then. Like, they didn't like the the appearance. Yeah. And this is basically right after in this report, it says that Zucker

was lying through her teeth. Right. So, Zucker gets a year. It says, by contrast, Mr. Frank openly discussed with investigators his conduct from the relevant time period, recalled details of key events, took responsibility for the actions of subordinates, and was generally

consistent across his interviews. Not only that, McMahon. He gave him this, he turned over his notes. I got to tell you, I wonder what bomber was thinking as he got to that part of this report. Well, that's a question. You know, did the Clippers know what Lawrence Frank had said and done? No. That, I'm reading this stuff and I'm thinking, man, it's going to be hard for L. Frank to continue to.

sitting that seat when he gets back six months later. Right. So here's why the clean, let me read from the report. The Clippers' most senior executive, president of basketball operations, Julian Zucker and president of basketball operations, I'm sorry, president of business ops,

Zucker, president of basketball ops, Lawrence Frank, are primarily and directly culpable for this misconduct. So they basically are saying, those are the two guilty parties. Zucker lies to according to the investigators, covers up, whatever. She gets a year's pay, a year suspension, a year's pay. Lawrence Frank cooperates.

He gets six months. Yeah. So six months off for good behavior. Our man Jackson brands him as Fredo. You know, this isn't the first time Lawrence Frank notes have been used. Hey, he could have been a hell of a journalist. Man takes good notes now. Do you remember this, when he was deposed as the,

when the Nets did the deals where they brought in Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce, they hired Lawrence Frank to be Jason. Jason Kidd was hired his coach, so they hired his ex-coach in, in New Jersey. And remember, Jay Kidd was hired his coach, like the sweat wasn't even dry from his NBA career as a player. Well, that was grade A tampering. Oh, it was tampering on the bucks when they took.

By the way, we didn't mention the tampering that they did the whole year that while I was in Toronto. That's also a backdrop here. But yeah. That's true. They put El Frank in to be, you know, first time head coach. You get an experienced guy as his right-hand man. And boy, that didn't go well.

Yeah, basically, Jason was done with him within weeks. And he was the highest paid assistant coach in the league at the time. And then assigned him to do TPS reports. Yes. I don't know how many of our, Jackson, do you know what a team? PPS report. Do you know that reference? No. Yeah. I mean, he knew Fredo. I give him credit for knowing a godfather reference. He doesn't know office-based reference.

Anyway, you've seen my dad. I have to know the godfather. Okay, good. That's true. And I want to give you, I want to assign you bonus points for making a godfather reference. So the, you know, we're far afield again, but Lawrence Frank was told to basically stay home and file reports. and apparently he did. I don't think anybody ever read them, but he was home filing reports.

So he was taking notes about, you know, like this is taking notes about Uncle Dennis making demands. Yeah. And, you know, the thing about the timeline here, just in case,

you know, that got distorted. In 2019, Kauai signs with the Clippers. The Raptors... The Raptors... Right. The Raptors are crying

bloody murder. they're crying foul saying that Uncle Dennis was asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars. By the way, the Raptors were not alone in those cries. I think someone were coming from across town too. That's right. And I remember stories came out and people were like, ah, they're just sour or whatever. So the NBA is like, we better investigate this. The NBA investigates it and finds the Clippers cop to it.

They go, yeah, he was asking. Oh, he was asked for all kinds of crazy stuff. Now, how is Uncle Dennis? allowed to do, like, why is he not immediately sanctioned by the league there? I mean, maybe he was on some level, we don't know about it. He's not, he was not an accredited agent. So they couldn't pull that. But like, right there, you know, that's a-

You banned guys from arenas. I've been banned from arenas. Yes, you have multiple times. I thought you were multiple times banned. I was first time I was only banned from the locker and the second time was the whole arena. Okay, good way. It's a good one. Anyway, Uncle Dennis was not banned. He was, you know, still well,

Welcome. So that's, you know, odd right there. So that is in the, you know, that is in the summer, fall of 2019. The 2019, 2020 season begins. Infamous season because in the spring, you know, or in March, the season shuts down because of COVID. During COVID, Uncle Dennis, according to this report, calls up the Clippers and says, you all promised me that you. you would get Kauai some money, some endorse some money. You brought me some BS deals. Uh-huh. Because remember, there was, you know, the previous jersey ad, the previous jersey sponsor before Aspiration, Kauai did have a deal. And he did, like, perform commercials for them.

And it was for some pittance of money. You know, I want real bogus deals. Don't give me fake bogus deals. I want BS deals, but real money. money. Right. Exactly. Exactly right. So that call takes place. Lawrence Frank takes notes on the call and saves them. All right. You know, he's being a very, you know, I think it's good business for a general manager to save notes. You can refer to things. I've talked to, over the years, I've talked to many agents and executives who refer back to, they're like, well, you told me two weeks ago. know about this. And I was like, damn, they're taking notes on what I'm telling them. So it's not unheard of in the NBA, but Lawrence, Frank, takes that.

And then within while the world is shut down, you think Daktronics is selling many new scoreboards in a pandemic? Yeah. Do you think Kauai's like marketability was peaking while the world and NBA is shut down? Were they going to do some great commercials with him? Were they going to, you know, no. during the pandemic, he gets these three deals. And not only that, again, according to the report. During a six-day span in early June 2020 after old Uncle Dennis had given them a three to six-month timeline, deadline. He said three to six months. I don't care if the world shut down.

Get Kauai's money. As soon as the clippers, as soon as the endorsement deals happen, the clippers enter into consulting agreements with these companies, where they give them money for consulting. Do you think Daktronics, I guess Daktronics could consult on scoreboard? You think Boingo Wireless is, I mean, I guess they could consult. They're not known for it. On the day that Zucker sends these.

introductory emails, Kauai files this LLC. It must have been a great introductory meeting. I tell you what. So like I said, if you were on a jury, like if you were on a jury and you didn't care, you know,

you didn't care about basketball and you heard all this, you'd be like guilty. Like we don't need, we don't need a long debate here. No. No. And the Clippers, look,

They've cut bait from that era. They're trading collide. They've traded Paul George. All the picks and stuff are out the door. Shea's winning MVP's and won a championship with the Thunder. His co-star, Jada Williams, was part of this deal, too, as a draft pick. The damage is done. You've just got to dig yourself out of the rubble of one of the most disastrous deals in sports history.

I mean, this thing ended up being, like, it's up there with the Hershey Walker trade. Who was in that? Your Royal Walker trade. Well, when you start stacking up picks and stuff, guys like Emmett Smith and Darren Woodson and like it was like a whole bunch of dudes. But Emmett Smith and Shea, you know, but just start there. All right. And that deal was all the picks. And this deal, you gave up an MVP plus all the picks.

By the way, the Clippers. To get two playoff series wins, two. It's tough. and another team's about to extend them. By the way, the Clippers have Rui Hachamura on an expiring deal. They got a team option. They got Brooke Lopez on an expiring deal. They got Max Struce on an expiring deal.

Grady Dick, who they're trading for, is assuming that deal happens, is on an expiring deal. Brandon Ingram has a player option. They might be able to redo that contract, depending how it works out with him. the clippers are going to have cap space macman um this is a devastating blow but this is not this is not a death blow it's not but it's pretty devastating i'm it's not impossible for them to come out of it with a respectable team again they also just drafts a guy fifth overall and if Keaton and Vigler ends up being a real deal player, that obviously is a big, big deal.

Could they trade Darius Garland? He's got two years and 86 million left. Could they trade Darius Garland right now for a first round pick? I'm uncertain of that. I mean, honestly, given his injury issues, I'm very uncertain of that. I think now next year, as an expiring contract, would he have value?

Sure, but I don't know, man. a small guard who's had those kind of injury issues. I'm not sure that there's a huge market for him. All right. Well, I'm just saying, like, it's bad, but, like, I want to be clear. I'm not saying that they're going easy on them. I'm just saying this is not. It could have been worse.

And if they don't, if they want to just have a knockdown and crackout, it can still get worse. What if they avoided Kauai's contract? It can still get worse for the clippers. Yes. Like, dude, the league is basically saying, hey, we think they're. still some skeletons that we can uncover. And if we do, we can come back and add to this. Yeah.

I mean, it's honestly, the Clippers, the Clippers sold their soul to Uncle Dennis and Kauai, and they got a bunch of crap sprayed all over them in return. Yeah. Two playoff series and, for the most part, the last. scandal and... Right. For the most part, the last seven years have been a disaster. They've had some... And they poured the foundation of a potential dynasty in Oklahoma City. I mean, that's the punishment, plus all these picks now out the door as well.

Yeah. And look, here's the deal. Just in terms of the trade, like, forget all the under the table stuff and all that. In terms of that trade to get Paul George, who I'll remind people, at the time, he was coming off a season in the middle of his prime when he was third in MVP voting. Listen, I thought their team was going to be awesome. To get Kauai, who's coming off finals as MVP, and Paul George,

who was a first team all-N-B-A player in his prime, every team in the league would have done that to open up a potential championship window. Now, Murphy's Law or Karma, however you want to put it,

has completely blown up in their face since then. And, you know, they're like, to give up Shea, you know, that was tough. Like, people knew, hey, you know, Like, that guy's going to be good.

He's a second team all rookie. Like, he's got a chance to be a player. Nobody thought he was going to be a perennial all-star, much less a back-to-back MVP. The Thunder admit that. No. I mean, the headline of the trade was all the picks. Jackson wonders if it's not a good idea for the league to say they want to stop digging,

because why is that, Jackson? Why are you saying that? I'm more so just saying, we said for the Clippers, it's a good idea for them to expect the hundred friends. I was actually saying it's probably good for the league, too, if you say no more punishments to come, let's accept this, let's sweep this under the rug. So then there's not another Pablo story coming out

or people keep, if they dig for more and they come out with more, hey, we can't punish them anymore. We already have the max one. It encourages people to just move forward. Yeah, when's the next court dates for the gambling case? Yeah, then the NBA can focus on, hey, opening night, we got LeBron going to the Knicks.

Like, let's get that started and talk about that. Right. Well, and honestly, I do think Adam Silver away is a winner of this because straight up he had been soft on crime as the commissioner since ironically he booted the previous

clipper's owner completely different circumstances right before we just I want to get something on the record right here just before we recorded this I taped an interview with Scott Van Pelt and I said those exact

words so I don't want you to think I stole from you I said he had this reputation. He was soft on crime. I might have stolen that from you. Although I guess that hadn't aired yet. Yeah, you haven't seen it. Unless you have my studio room tapped.

I'll have to discuss that. But yeah, like Adam Sover, the sheriff, baby. I wasn't familiar with the game. Well, I will say this. Like, Adam said at the, at his last press conference, in Las Vegas. I was there lounging on a couch, if you remember.

Oh, yeah. He was getting, or the league at least, was getting regular updates on the investigation. So if that was the case, and they were aware of these documents that,

you know, and these interviews that implicated them, and they still let them have the number five pick and the Kauai thing. And I guess that, you know, you got to do, due process.

Yeah. Again, the more I think about this, the more I think the clippers should just... Shut up. Yeah. Shut up. Because every page of this document that I read, I was like, whoa. Also, just like, dude, nobody with any shred of common sense buys any of the BS you're trying to pump. Like, come on, dude, you're busted.

Just shut up, take your punishment, and try to rebuild your team. Yeah. I also just don't know what pathway the clippers have to fight. They reference arbitration. I mean, bomb, which is not a thing. Bomber's got obviously unlimited resources and a bunch of lawyers, and he's going to have his lawyers go on the attack, clearly, which is like, okay, dude.

Dude, cool. Again, Balmer is making a complete ass of themselves. So, according to the Clippers, I don't have any way of proven this yet, but the Clippers say that they had already paid $50 million for the legal fees for this, and that there were six law firms involved. Okay, well, my advice is don't do extraordinarily shady stuff that requires a leap that type of investigation. I'm just saying. They say they paid $50 million. I mean, whatever, I can't challenge that.

That's about what Kauai got under the table. The fine, the fine that they were given was $30 million. Yeah. And I believe the way they calculated that is the max fine for circumvention is $7.5 million. I don't know where that. Oh, okay. So 7.5 times four. Right.

They're saying that they... I thought it was a million bucks per playoff game that Kauai played in the Clippers uniform. But he actually played 35, so I knew my math was off. But did he? finished 35. I might have only finished about 30. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. Well, actually, it might be a million bucks per fan who's at their season opener next year. Man, I like going to Clipper games. Yeah, no traffic. Well, our new studio in L.A. is right and down the street. This is true. We'll beat a lot of them. Yeah. All right. Well, I wish this closed the book, but I feel like it's not going to. And what I would say going forward is watch this space for what happens with this Kauai Toronto trade. Because it's kind of like Tony Romo the other day to cross over the year where he makes his statement after he pleads no contest. And he's like, I look forward to coming back to CBS. And CBS is like, CBS did not, was not on the. And I was like, I look forward to being in terms.

Toronto. Well, but I'll say this. In that case, the Raptors look forward to having them, and it's clearly in the Clippers best interest. Like, could you imagine if the Clippers brought Kauai back next year? My God. No, they cannot. Right.

And so for the Clippers to, okay. Well, yeah, that's why if I'm Toronto, I might open up the terms. You might say, hey, a pick and deal with it. Right. Yeah. That would be a fascinating conversation. be uncomfortable to have Brandon Ingram back, but, you know. Not as uncomfortable as it be for the Clippers.

All right. I'm just saying, like, I'm going to watch that space. Because how many times they're in this podcast did I reference that? It's a big swing piece. And again, just in terms of the Clippers being able to salvage things any time in the near future, those would be the only two picks that they have that don't have swap rights attached to them. unprotected. Unprotected.

Yeah, over the next seven years. The only two. All right. Thank you so much, Jackson, and Tucker and Mark and the rest of our producers. Thank you to McMahon for not hitting me harder last night. He couldn't. He didn't order a dessert and he didn't order an appetizer. It's very disciplined.

He's at an advanced stage. He's got to watch his diet. Wow. Jackson, cut that out. I did not. No, Jackson. Leave it in. It's inappropriate.

And I'm going to reference this the next time because what's happened, by the way, there is arbitration on podcast bets. And what's happened now is because you are, this is Brian Winhurst and the HOOP collective. Yeah. So the fact that I am owed two dinners off of this podcast is your responsibility now. You've got a podcast bet. That's why I went, I discussed things. You got a walk, tell lifted. Yeah, that's what we came to.

All right. I'm going to go to arbitration on that for sure. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to Who Collective. I hope no more emergency podcast. We'll talk to you next week. Adios amigos. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer.

That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.