Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Explaining OKC’s Lu Dort Trade To The Hawks: Watch Out For Atlanta? + Summer Extensions You Need To Be Watching

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Bobby Marks and Vince Goodwill to react to the Thunder’s interesting deal sending Lu Dort to the Hawks in a 3-team trade with Dallas. The guys break down why OKC would do this, what it means for the Thunder’s future, if Atlanta should be a team to watch and why this could work out for the Mavs. Plus, could the future include more movement for Jonathan Kuminga? Finally, we talk about two players you need to keep an eye this summer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Monday afternoon. Joining us finally from back home in Naples after weeks in Las Vegas is Bobby Marks. Gentlemen, I am home. If I would have, I would have kissed the grounds at RSW, known as Fort Myers Airport. I guess it is internationally because you can fly to Germany from there yesterday. But I was so tired from a.m. or through Houston. and as I said, somewhere around Oklahoma City, that trade broke midair.

But I am home somewhat well-rested. All right, joining us from New York, where did you have to go to the fanatics fest, Vince Goodwill? Absolutely not. What up, though, Wendy. What up, though, Bobby. I was not going to that zoo under any circumstances. No. All right, Bobby, there was a significant trade in the NBA on Sunday.

Three-team trade between Dallas, Oklahoma City and Atlanta. primarily, Lou Dort is now in Atlanta Hawk. The deal went, it's already finalized. It went straight to, you had the trade call on Sunday. I didn't know that the NBA lawyers were still working Sundays in mid-July, but I guess. Well, I changed that rule. It used to be like, you'd have to wait until Monday, and then there was a, there was a hiccup along the way a few years ago. And now it's like you're on call, basically, as long as you get them the information and in time, they'll come to work on Sunday.

Yeah, I remember, Vince, I remember when I was. early in the league, Paul Silas wanting to trade, he wanted Ricky Davis traded away from LeBron. Should we make this SOFI? Get your money, right, Jackson? Our story time, which early, early in the week to be dragging out SOFi. So did I have I told the story before, Jackson? I'm very worried about retelling stories. It's my dad used to do it. And you know, Bon Tempts and McMahon make fun of me for it. And so anyway, for LeBron's rookie year, Paul Silas, wanted Ricky Davis traded in the worst way. And so they got to like early December

and they had a trade worked out between Boston and Cleveland to trade Ricky Davis to Boston. And the lawyers at the league said, okay, we will, we'll do it after lunch, Bobby. They went on their lunch break and they, they, and so Silas like paced around the, the team was in Indianapolis.

And Silas paced around the hotel room waiting for the call that the league lawyers were back from lunch so that they could do the Ricky Davis trade and he could get him on the plane. He wanted him on the plane and out of Indianapolis as fast as possible, the late-grade Paul Silas, which is another thing that reminds me of another story, the famous story about Ted Stepion. Did you know the Ted Stepion story with the Dallas Mavericks? I don't think I know this one.

Way off the big. Bobby, do you know the story? I don't. I just know there's a rule named after him, so. Yes. So the reason the Stepion rule is in existence, the reason they call it the Stepion rule is because I believe that the Cavs traded their first round pick to the Mavericks in four consecutive drafts. I think that's correct. And by the way, in different trades, it wasn't like they did it and they did one trade for like three firsts. Like there was, they was like they kept calling them and they kept trading them picks. I think it was like from 1980 to 83. They traded four first round picks to Dallas.

And, you know, this is back before cell phones or whatever. And so Dick Mata, who was the coach and GM, Bobby, I think. Yeah, yes. The Mavericks at the time, he had this classic line where he said, he was afraid to ever leave his office to go to lunch because he might miss a call from Ted Steppian. But anyway, you can do a trade on a Sunday night in 2026. That's my point. And this trade got done. So, Ludoort goes to Atlanta. Atlanta has now acquired a pretty decent set of perimeter players now. They're, you know, between C.J. McCollum and Dyson Daniels and Alexander Nikiel Walker, Lou Dort, that's built up.

We'll talk about Atlanta in a few minutes. Right now, Bobby, I want to talk about Oklahoma City and why they did this deal. Well, I mean, I think certainly financially. I mean, I think that's the top, top of the line here where you look at where Oklahoma City was. They were a second apron team. I always thought Brian and Vince that once they exercised the door option before a free agency, that that contract was going to be traded. I never thought it was going to be extended. And I never thought they were going to play out the year and let them become a free agent. So when you look at it financially, get some under the second apron. Yes, it gets them, I think they've gotten seven seconds in the three trades they've done.

They've created some trade exceptions. I think you look at it, they basically had a decision. when they wanted to be in the second apron. Do you want to be in it this year or do you want to be in it potentially next year when Kaysen Wallace, who's Ricky Extension eligible now, will hit the books and now will certainly push them over? But when you look at where they were on June 15th, their projected payroll was close to $560 million.

Where they are right now, it's $2.34. Okay? So that's what, $230 million? to three no it's like three 40 oh my god no three 320 roughly 320 without touching

their three players chay jalen having their their bench steps still intact with mccain crusoe and mitchell and you brought back kenerick williams you still have jay y jaylon jillin williams and you've got the rookies that you drafted

so as we've learned in this apron error. The apron forces you to pick, okay? Forces you to pick on what is priority and what is a luxury. And I will not say that Lou Dort was a luxury. He certainly played a big par. But when you look at their roster, you know, eventually he was going to become a luxury as far as to keep. Don't forget, not this coming season, but next season, Shea's contract takes a huge jump to $60 million.

you got to figure that like that's just an existing player not saying that you know Shay's the MVP and everything else not say anything you know against that but just you have to do long term projections even before you're actually you know ready to it and maybe you look at how Lou Dorp played in the Western Conference finals and I played in the playoffs the past couple years or at least how he shot and you're like okay maybe he's going to be expendable because of what they've acquired in the meantime because you wound up getting the Jared McCain you already traded Isaiah Joe for seconds. Like this seems like the game just rewinds for Oklahoma City.

They just, they wind up having to make these decisions to avoid the second apron. And at some point, when you got three guys on a max or three guys on something close to a max and one guy bumps to the supermax, it's unavoidable at a point. Yeah, this wasn't a second apron decision as much I think as it was just straight money. because I don't think that the Thunder are too worried about being in the second apron for its lack of team building factors because they don't use the mid-levels. I haven't used the mid-levels in years, Bobby, I don't think. Maybe other than to like sign draft picks. They don't really use the mid-levels. And, you know, I mean, I think this is just straight about saving money.

So you mentioned about, so this summer they had Lou Dort and Isaiah Hardinstein on team options. They end up doing a new deal for Isaiah Hardenstein, a good deal, three years, $75 million. He took a mile in a market where, you know, backup centers are getting paid to the full mid-level. Isaiah Hardinstein taking, you know, Walker Kessler got 32 million a year. Isaiah Hardinstein got 25 a year. So, you know, just frame that. Like, I'm not saying who's better or whatever. I'm just saying those two contracts were signed this summer.

So they got good value, I think, at Hartenstein. You know, he's had some minor health issues, but pretty good. When the Thunder don't extend you, they're probably going to trade you if you're a rotation player or a starter. There's a long history of that. And the players that they have traded, you know, like Chris Paul, Josh Giddy, Stephen Adams, the players that they've traded have gotten extended elsewhere. They haven't sort of, you know, set them away and not let them get paid. You know, Giddy got a $100 million extension eventually in Chicago. But if Sam Presti doesn't want to extend you, you're probably.

getting traded. And so when Lou Dord didn't get extended, as you said, Bobby, the league knew he was going to get traded. It was just a matter of what he got traded for, and whether it would be a straight salary dump or whatever. So they ended up, I'm sure, you know, because they did another salary dump move with the Hawks like three weeks ago, right? They sent Aaron Wiggins to the Hawks. It's another move that Cox have done. They waited and did this deal separately, I think, because I don't, I don't know for sure, but I think it was because the Thunder were trying to see if they could get a first round pick for Ludo. And I think there was even some discussions before the Lakers went ahead and used their cap space in the ammo on getting Walker Kessler. I think Loodort was an option,

where they might have used some of those assets in a sign trade form. They weren't able to get that and they got the three seconds. And I'll tell you this, that if you look at the Celtics a year ago, the team that really had to hollow out its depth a year ago was the Celtics. Now, the Celtics had the aggravating circumstance that Jason Tatum had the torn Achilles. So when they let Porzingis, Luke Cornett, and Al Horford go, they traded Porzengis and traded Drew Holiday. I think they only got like, they got like Anthony Simons and like two seconds in that deal, all told.

I can't remember what they traded Pozincas for, Bobby. And then they later traded Simons for, for Nicolns. I guess the tail on that is still to be determined because they still have this $23 million trade exception they could use. But the point is that the Thunder were able to generate some level of assets, I think, as you said, seven second round picks. Well, the other thing, too, is that they didn't send him west, right? Like, I think that's, that's, you know, I mean, that's a factor in it is that he goes east. I mean, the last thing you want to do is kind of be handcuffed and- Yeah, have Ludoort guarding Shea in the conference.

finals. At least he goes east in this deal here. Yeah, unlike the, the Drew Holiday a trade a couple of years ago, Milwaukee traded him, and he was carding. He was playing against him in Boston after that. So yeah, I think that that's relevant. Sam Presti, the, they use vice president, whatever, he's the head of basketball for the Thunder. He gave an interview to the Oklahoma and after this, which was a little bit unusual, Bobby. Presti usually gives like two-hour long marathon sessions at the beginning and the end of every season, and they're often very entertaining and enlightening. He doesn't usually go on the record outside those sessions. He went and went on the record with the Oklahoman because I think he felt like, you know,

Lou Dorts, a guy who'd been with the franchise a long time, very close to Shea, Gillis, Alexander, executive vice president and general manager. So I can call him general manager and be okay. That's what Jackson tells me. He gives that interview, Vinnie, and, um, I, I think basically to like try to explain why the franchise traded this guy in a straight cash dump. And what he basically said was these savings will help us fund the team in the future. He said, he essentially said that's the plan. So they got to follow through with the plan. They got to sign Kays and Wallace.

They got to keep A.J. Mitchell. They got to keep Jared McCain. But essentially that's what he's saying. He's explaining that this was, we did this to save money so we can we can keep this team build. out for the future. I don't know whether the fans will, you know, how the fans will feel about that, but that's what he said.

Have you seen Oklahoma City fans, Wendy? Like, they eat that stuff up. Like, if there is a fan base that will wear a jersey that says flexibility on the back of it, it's probably Oklahoma City, okay? And if there's any executive that has engendered that level of, you know, confidence, because we know executives will lie on the record, like nobody's excluded from that.

But when you look at some of the constraints that Sound Presti is working, when you look at the draft capital that he has, he can afford to make a move like this. And like I go back to saying, on the floor, when I remember that series, and I have watched the series in full, you know, since it happened,

but just going back to that series, look, man, you still have to do things to combat the San Antonio Spurs. And you got to have more shooting on the floor. And although the number, sometimes will say that you got to guard Lou Dort, sometimes you don't. And also, I wonder if some of the reputational stuff, like, hey, my bad, I'm going to hit you in the kidney real quick. Oh, my bad. I'm going to hit you in this real bad. You know what I mean? I wonder if some of that

stuff lightly, very, very, very, very, very lightly. I don't mean in some big, grandiose way. I wonder if some of that stuff plays a small factor in this, if the juice is no longer worth to squeeze when you have so many young players on the back end ready to take on bigger roles and that you have to make financial decisions on in the future. I think they liked Ludo, it has their reputation. I don't think, I do think it was interesting that late in the regular season, they had to, like, come out and sort of like apologize for that one play. What was that play, Bobby, where, like, Ludoort, like, publicly admitted he had...

Oh, Yolich. With Yolkich, right? Was it with Yolkich? my brain is fried at this point Yeah, it was, yeah, him and Yolkich got into it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think Mark Dagonal, like, came out and defended him, and then, like, when they thought about it for a day,

they were like, you know what? I had an executive tell me, he goes, that was the day I knew they were trading Ludohert because even if it was in the wrong, if they weren't, I mean, I don't think that's true, just to be clear, but whatever. You think the players associate, David Kelly, it's the player association,

is sitting there with a notebook being like James Dolan, second apron, Oklahoma City. You think they're kind of collecting their second apron notes, although I know they did save a ton of money on here, but, you know, there's nobody in it now. There's nobody left. It's a hard cap. It is.

It's a hard cap. It's a hard cap, and we should all deal with it. And as I said before, you should deal with it because it's not going anywhere for the next three years. And if it changes in three years from now, then we'll just from there and we'll figure it out. But that's what it is right now. One thing I'm going to say about the second apron and teams staying away from a hard cap, just so that I don't get a call from the league office or the players union.

The players are guaranteed 51% of the basketball revenue. So if the basketball revenue comes in at $100, the players get $51. It's just a matter of how it's distributed. The whole point is that they have to, the teams with players in the second apron, offload players elsewhere, so the talent is more distributed. Lou Dort is on the Hawks and not on the Thunder. He's still making the same amount of money. That money would have come in.

So it's not that the players are getting less. It's that the teams are not able to build up as much, and there's a forced player sharing in the league. Which is the purpose, as Vince said. To spread it out. is the purpose of what a hard cap is. And here's the thing, because I asked the question at Adam Silver's press conference and I got a bunch of, you know, dirty looks from the front of the room,

not Adam Silver, but just you guys know who sits in the front of the room. I got a couple of dirty looks. When I said, when I asked the question about not necessarily forced parity, but the players, I won't say they don't lose, but they get their money, right? The league gets its share of whatever this is. I think the fans, by and large, lose out, and not on a Ludoort situation, but when you look at Victor and Mannyama taking less than he should. I don't think just my personal opinion, if it's your first big contract, I do not think

that if you're a max player, you should take less. That's just me. Get your money and worry about sacrificing later and all other type of stuff. It's your choice, but that's just my thought. But I do think that the fans kind of lose out if you wind up investing in a group of players and you're watching them grow. And then because they have to get their money, you quote unquote can't afford them

because of this hard cap. And they wind up going somewhere else and getting their money. Another team winds up getting, you know, a player that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. And the fans of that homegrown market, like they lose out on seeing their guy

in their uniform being able to, you know, feel this thing out to its fruition. Like, that's one of those things I was trying to hint at when asking Adam about, that an Adam, as deftly as Adam does, goes into talking about the system is working as it's intended to work. Yeah, he basically said we're not changing it. Thank you for asking.

And the other thing, too, is, like, when you kind of look back to the last couple of years on all these financially-motive-related decisions, there hasn't been one yet where it's, like, one of these young up-and-coming players, right? When you look at, like, listen, Lou D'Rour has certainly been in a league. You look at Bradley Beal. You look at Porzingis. You look at Porzini's. You look at Holiday, you look at Horford, you look at, you know, Cornett a little bit there. You know, some of the other decisions that they were, that has been made throughout the last, the last couple of years here. So there hasn't been, you know, if Oklahoma City had said, hey, we're going to trade case and

Wallace right now because we can't, we don't want to extend them because then you're going to be like, wait a minute here. But as Brian said, as Vince, you said, like, listen, the players are still getting the money. there's been over, I did a class last week, there's been over $11 billion in extensions in the last three years. So when players are claiming that, whether it be free agency or whether it be the apron,

the money is just distributed differently, right? Like that's just how this CBA is. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay, so I want to talk about the Hawks a little bit. I had to look at the Hawks roster, Bobby, because the Hawks keep making moves to acquire players. And I was like, how many guys

they got on their roster? And the answer is I think they've got 17. I do. 16 are guaranteed out of that group. Okay. Including two first round picks. Don't forget,

Kingston Fleming's and Zubi, Ejafour, who, Edge of four, showed some good rebounding in the summer leagues. So they do this deal to pick up Lou Dort. And, you know, they've got,

the interesting thing about this now, Bobby, is the Thunder didn't extend Lou Dort, will the Hawks extend Lou Dort? And I think the intention is to wait and see. I do not think he will guaranteed get an extension. And if you look at that, when you look at his salary, which is what, 17 million? Yeah, 17 change, 177. Yep. And you look at some other, you know, they have Jock Landale on a one-year, $14 million contract. They signed C.J. McCollum to a one-year, one-year, 21, 2017? 21.

So if you look at what they've done, they've taken on some big one-year contracts, but also players that are, you know, Lou is probably going to start for them, you know, Jack Landale play backup. You know, C.J. McCollum may start, may come off the bench, but it'll be maybe they're sixth man. Like, those guys are going to, are going to be key players,

but they've also, didn't they have the option to cut Buddy Heald and they picked that up? Yeah, they'd have guaranteed. they go to save about $6 million and they elected not to do it. I mean, they're about their books. I mean, they've got no players making more than 30 when you look at it.

They've got no bad contracts because even their, like they're, they're big contracts that they've signed. Like Jalen Johnson, he's at sub-max. He's an all-star playing at sub-max, paying being paid sub-max. The deal that they signed Dyson Daniels to,

it's $100 million, but like maybe you'd have trouble trading it for great value, but it's not considered like a bad contract, right, Bobby? No, he was all defense. I mean, that's pretty good. Nikola Alexander Walker, that was an excellent contract that they signed. So it's a very, very, so it's a competitive team. You know, I think they're a top six team in the East.

We'll see who's healthy and who play as well and what have you. And they've got all these expiring contracts. And I think they're still in relatively good shape pick-wise. I know that they still owe San Antonio some assets from acquiring DeJante Murray. But they're an okay position. Like, Bobby, like, I keep an eye on the Hawks in the medium term if another star player becomes available. I agree. And we don't know when that happens, of course.

But as I said, as you said, they've aligned their books to go out and make a deal if something comes to fruition with a bunch of expiring. potentially expiring contracts. And draft picks or pick goes to San Antonio next year, but they have the least favorable of New Orleans or Milwaukee. I think it's top four protected in there. So they do have a pick there and plus future first with that. So, yeah, I mean, they're in a really good financial position right now, roster-wise.

Somebody's going to be the odd man out eventually when we get closer to to start the regular season just because you're going to have to trim that roster by two players. But did they also get Ryan Nemhart? They got him in that trade? Yeah. Well, that was the under the rate. Yes, they did get Ryan, which you had a, I mean, listen, he, and with the Kyrie injury last year, he started a ton of games and played pretty well, and they eventually converted him to his two-way to a standard, and you get him on a one-year, $2.2 million deal. It's pretty good value. I mean, Brian, you look at, and eventually look at what they've been able to do. That was Bon Tems's idea. They had the deal done.

And Bon Temes said, wait a minute, can we get Nimrod? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Ryan Nemhard, Devin Carter, Aaron Wiggins, and Lou Dore for Zachary. Let's just say for Zachary Richie Shea in future seconds. That's when it all comes down to it there. It's a pretty good business. I wonder what we think about a guy who was number one pick, who was traded after his second year, Zachary Richerset.

Like, I'm so, like, you talk to people around the league, you're so mixed on him. Like, he just hasn't, you know, fully developed. He took a step back this year as the Hawth took a step forward. I wonder if he's just an undervalued asset now going to Dallas, not that we're talking about the Dallas part of this or whatever, but he's kind of just a postscript in this Atlanta Hawks deal. Yeah, number one overall pick in between Cooper Flagg and Victor Weimanjama. He's a trivia question.

And, like, you know, I mean, he is legit a, I'm trying to think of who, the number one pick in 1980? When maybe is that, Ralph Sampson? Okay, I was, I was going to say, who's the number one pick between 1982 and 1984 between the, uh, the James Worthy draft and the Hakeem Elizewan draft? You know what I mean? Like, like, that's not, and that's a bad, that's a poor example because Ralph Sampson, I think turns out to be still pretty damn good.

But still, like, that's where he is right now. And not that, not that you worry about giving up on the guy too early. but I think the point that you made Wendy just in general about flexibility, or at least that level of flexibility, having the expiring contracts, because free agency now, to me, I think free agency is dead in the NBA, and you're kind of going back to having flexibility to make trades for guys because we saw with the Jalen Brown thing, you're going to see it across the league in other situations.

When you're extension eligible and your team doesn't sign you or your team doesn't extend you, they're going to trade you. And if a team offers you and you don't take it, they're going to trade you. And so you need to be in a position as a franchise to be flexible and pliable to acquire set player like that who's going to have multiple years left on this deal, be extension eligible, and be good enough where you can, you know, get players like that that won't cost you to farm and you can still be worthy of being a contender. Back in my day, they called this secondary draft when you could get a player who maybe didn't

work out with his first team, regardless of whether he was taken number one or number 20, and maybe didn't work out with his first team, and you could get the player when he was still on his rookie contract. It was known as the secondary draft, right, Bobby? That was the sort of redrafted. In this case, Quinn Snyder, frankly, stopped playing Zachary Richie Shea down the stretch last year. I mean, maybe not every game, but more often than not, he was on the bench at the end of games. And Quinn Snyder signed a contract extension this year.

And with as full as Atlanta's team is, I'm not sure Queenslander was going to play him this year. And so Dallas gets him at decent value here. They use the Anthony Davis trade exception to take him in. And I got to wonder, Bobby, do you think the Hawks would have picked up? So Risha Shea is guaranteed this year. But his option for next season is $17 million. Yeah, you know, it's interesting too. And you remember that Ansi-Salle, who's their president of basketball operations, didn't draft him either.

So he, I believe Landry Fields did that year and, you know, he's now in charge. It would have been interesting if he had drafted him if he would, you know, sometimes you're attached to guys, right? Like you're attached to that player that you, that you drafted. That would have been, I mean, his option year is like, I think, $15, $16 million. So that would have been, you know, because that would have taken away potentially some of that flexibility that they will have this offseason here.

But you're right. He was not part of the rotation. I think for Dallas, I think you take a flyer on him, right? I mean, it basically cost them. And I know that Ryan Nemhart was part of it, but it cost him a 2027 second that was Chicago's to come into another good piece of business for a guy. And listen, Mike Schmitz has seen these guys. I mean, you know, he's from an international. They're jam in Dallas. Yeah, Schmitz loves international players. And they get another one there. It ended up in the draft to get the Spanish prospect. Yeah, Sergio Del Rey. Yeah. The Knicks drafted him. And as soon as the Knicks drafted him, Schmits was trying to get,

he was trying to move up. What other former ESPN? We got Royce Young. He was obviously involved in this trade. Just kidding. We got Smith, we got Schmitz, Royce, and Bontems. I mean, they did the deal. It had nothing to do with Messiah and Schmitz.

Had nothing to do with Ansi. Had nothing to do with Sam Presti. This was a ESPN guy. All right, since Jonathan Cominga. The first Bontemps deal. This is a, oh, and then you go into Cominga. This is the Bontemps podcast today. So Cominga still trends, like, at least on my socials, there he's trending every, every day.

And I want to be clear. I have nothing against Jonathan Cominga has him or a player. But the outside, the outsized interest in what happens to him is mind-boggling to me. The amount of attention and coverage that is paid to Jonathan Cominga's, contractual situation, I cannot compute it. Okay? I just can't compute it. For example, well, never mind. Anyway, I see everywhere, Bobby, there's going to be sign and trades and sign and maybe he'll get signed and trade for $100 million and maybe he'll sign to trade for $95 million. He'll average 75 points and 26 rebound. I'm like, okay, ladies and gentlemen, the Atlanta Hawks have

17 players on their roster with guaranteed contracts. Actually, I think 16, right? You said that? 16 guarantees, one partial, or one non-guarantee. Who were they taking in a sign and trade for Jonathan Cominga? Well, and here's the other thing. They're not going into luxury tax to do it either. And they took on salary. They're $4.1 million below the luxury tax. They ain't going in.

So if you're the Lakers and you think you're going to trade them, Jared Vandibill, remember, like, I think it's interesting. Like when you'd sign and trade a player and you were taking salary back, it's not like you're getting money off your books. This was a player that has not count, does not count. against anything here. The same thing with, I mean,

I'm seeing all these Peyton Watson sign and trade scenarios and I'm like, stop, you know, like apron, the apron.

That's the other thing. I see like, you know, if LeBron chooses not to go to Cleveland, I'm seeing like, oh, Cominka,

seven years, 645 million Hall of Fame. I'm like, you guys understand that the calves, if they take a player in a sign and trade,

they're hard cats of the first apron. They can't do that. They, They're going to spend past the first apron. So, and I mean, again, like, it's one thing if you're like, yeah, we're going to try to acquire Nikola Yokic and like it doesn't work on the cap. Okay, maybe you figure that out. I just, I've never seen anything.

I've just never seen anything like it in my career. The, the intense desire to acquire Jonathan Kaminga at any cost. It's just a fascination, Wendy, you know, because we've been talking about him for so long, like we, I mean, as the NBA, you know, in the NBA Zykeyes, we've just been talking about. Kamainga from the moment he got drafted, the two-timeline stuff playing for the Warriors, like there's just a fascination with him. And he's been productive, right? And then when you're productive, people want to see, oh, he's going to be fully unleashed when he goes to Place X. He was supposed to be fully unleashed in Atlanta. Maybe he will go do that. Maybe he will sign somewhere and he will average 20 and 10 and he will be an all-star. At that time, we can talk about

how much he's getting paid. One thing I want to point out, if I'm not mistaken, Bobby, The Lakers could actually have done a sign and trade for Cominga two weeks ago. When the Lakers traded D'Andre Aiton to the Wizards, there was a window there where the Hawks could have gotten in on the sign-in. Before the Hawks made other acquisitions and got up against the luxury tax, before they did Lou Dork, maybe even before they did Aaron Wiggins, there was a window for the Lakers to do a deal to get Jonathan Cominga. But what they could have paid him would have been, you know, less than the mid-level. The window for signing trades, I mean, everyone's outside of LeBron and some other things. Like, business is pretty much done in the league. I mean, they're really, like, you know, I know the restricted guys are still out there with Watson and Duren.

But, I mean, like, the creativity of a signing trade right now where 23 teams are basically hard capped at either the first or second apron. Like, it's not. And then we mentioned, and then we take the Atlanta part into it. it, right? Don't forget about them. They just made this trade and took on six million more. And they've got 17 guys on their players on the roster. Like, they're not taking back another salary here. By the way, Cominga might sign somewhere for the minimum, average 20 and 10, and then a year from now, get a max for all I know. And maybe that's why he didn't want to take a sub-mid-level offer from the Lakers in that sign and trade. I'm not saying it's a bad decision.

Just know that that was the window to get to L.A. was when, They sent Aiton to Washington. And by the way, after they sent Aton to Washington, they then went out in sign Zaire Williams, a wing. So, like, and I'm not saying Zaire Williams is better than Kaminga, but they moved on and signed a wing. Well, remember, too, also, Comingas probably, or in his agent, Aaron Turner probably thinking,

well, signing trade has to be three years. Why am I going to get stuck on a three-year deal? Maybe I can go back in free agency. Well, sometimes the ability to take the now versus the unknown. Like I said, if he signs a minimum and averages 20 and 10, it'll be genius. But enough with the sign and trades at Jonathan Kaminga. Get it off my trending.

Thank you. I'm under control. It's all fine. I will say that by late July, we're in silly season at this juncture. Okay. More hoop collective podcast after this. All right, Bobby.

There is some MBA business that needs to be done this summer, still on the books, maybe not in terms of play movement. let's have the Draymond Green and James Harden getting re-signed into back to their teams, depending on what LeBron does. Then there'll be some fallout after that with Tamara Rosen. But I want to talk about the guys who are extension eligible this summer. We haven't really seen, we saw Victor Wimbunyama extend, but we haven't really seen a lot of guys who are extension eligible come to terms, which is a little bit unusual by late July. No, you're right.

I mean, I mean, shoot, I even wrote an article back in June, calling. at the summer of extensions, and we've only seen, we haven't seen many at all, especially the veterans, the rookies, only victor, has come off the board so far. I think some of it has to do with the date of their extension eligible. I think Anthony Davis, two players that are the most fascinating to me are Anthony Davis, who's extension eligible on August 6th, and Carl Anthony Towns, who has been extension eligible since the finals ended on that Saturday, and it was eligible to final day. I think for Davis it's you know listen it's a big number they already did the trade deal at four for two 13 or four for two 13 um what is the number for anthony davis I think towns for me is fascinating

just because it could set up for what is what happens with that roster there um because next year is jalan brunson and ogy like eventually all these numbers start to add up here and what is Will the town's number be lower, given the flexibility? We're seeing a day and age where players are negotiating and teams are negotiating also. So those are the two big ones. It used to be the guys, it was Janus, right? We had circled October 1st. We can put that to bed until probably January as far as what his extension is going to be and everything like that.

But, you know, there's a lot. Curry is still, you know, Curry eventually. I think Steph's at the end of, Steph at the end of July. July or all, because I got to look out of his date. But there is a, we've got a who's who of players, all NBA players that are still kind of hanging out there. Look, I know it's fashionable to take less. And I'm not trying to, I promise you, I'm going to preface this by saying, I'm not trying to upset New York Nick fans here. I've been kind of been there crosshairs for the past couple of months of Bobby and Wendy.

Jalen Brunson is going to come get all of his money. Every bit that he won't say sacrifice. He signed the year. early, right? He signed a year early. He could have signed for $100 million more by signing later. Every dollar of that, what, $2.80 or $300 that he's supposed to get next to him, he's going to get all of that. How does that affect any of this conversation? That affects what you do with Carl Anthony Towns. Like, Carltony Towns won an extension before the season started. Did not get it. And now we're in this spot where Carl Anthony Towns sacrificed a lot. while going into the playoffs as their most important player, you saw how critical he was to

them rolling through the East, them rolling through the finals, his defense on Victor Weminiama. And usually when that happens, the player wants to get rewarded for his sacrifice. How do the Knicks balance both of those things? Is it possible to do both of those things? Because you know Jalen Brunton is going to have to eat first, but Carlentine Towns is going to be up first for a contract extension. It's going to be delicate.

I'm curious to see how Leon Rose and Jim Dolan and those guys handled that situation. Well, Jim Dolan is on the record saying we're not going into the second apron. And then the Knicks operated their offseason, not going to the second apron. It cost them Mitch Robinson. And they drove a hard bargain with Landry Shannon. I thought they got him at a good number. They got all their guys at good numbers. Mm-hmm.

They did. So they have set the standard that they're not doing it. So Carl, he's a 20 and 10 guy who's proven to be a champion and was great in the playoffs. He wants that max extension. It is completely reasonable. But if his standard is max or bust, it becomes uncertain. Now, it doesn't affect the 26, 27 season. The Knicks starters will all be back, whether he signs it or not.

But, you know, the Knicks don't want him to be a free agent in 27, which is where he could be. So, you know, they had an opportunity to extend it before last season. They didn't do it. I'm not criticizing that. It worked out. And so now they've left themselves where they're in position to, you know, to deal with that. And look, what's the number that where he takes, I mean, like, I don't even know, Bobby. Like, well, you know, his option year is 61.

Okay. So the max that was, that's basically the number. So I'm just looking at their numbers right now. So they're roughly 13 million below. the second apron next year, including the option year. Okay. Free agents, the big free agent is Deuce McBride and Josh Hart's got a team option. So really, it's really not about as much as 27. It's really about the other, the 28 year. That 28, 29 year when the Brunson $43 million number is going to jump to probably 60, I would think, right?

Like that's going to be his number. Because Jaylon is going to opt out of the last year that contract at some point and get his proper race. Yeah. That's where you're going to start to see things add up with New York. But certainly him taking a little bit less, that would give them more flexibility next offseason to be able to add some things to the roster. So they're not just pressed up against that second apron.

It's just, look, it's hard to keep teams together for more than like three years at this point. And for that to happen, you have to bend somewhere. And the Thunder, I mean, the Celtics, you saw what's happened to the Celtics. Yep. The thunder are bending, trying not to break, and the Knicks are, it's tight. It feels it's squeezed.

And so we'll see, do they bend or break, you know? And that's what this will be a, this moment will be an indication of whether that could happen. So I do know this. Vince, you're on the front lines of this. Carl Towns is a damn important player for them. Yes, he is. Damn important player. So, we'll watch that.

Obviously the other one is Yokic, which there's no drama there. He's not extending. Listen, the Yokic one is fascinating. For me, it's interesting. And I know he's come out and said that Denver is where he's going to be and all that. And he's going to sign next year. But, man, I'm just looking at their roster. Like what they've done or really haven't done this offseason and going into next year, you know, as the third best, fourth best, fifth, I don't know, you can go down the pecking order there. They're basically the same team, right? They're the same team, and they still have the Payton Watson situation to figure out here. What's your favorite phrase, Wendy? Actions over words. There we go.

Yeah, we'll see. Bobby, how about sports business classroom? You had a great week last week, right? We did. We had a terrific week. We had, I think the numbers eventually got to. I think we're at 1.30. I was really, you know, one of the things that, besides the actual programming that we go through, daily programming, having speakers come through and presenting is that we have a mock trade deadline on Friday.

And the people at Spotrack came in and built out a secondary website for them to use, like a dummy shadow website. because the traffic on their site has been so great with all these students going on there. And they build out the site. But one of the things, Brian, they have to do is on Wednesday, they have to present. We call it midterms. So you have to come in and kind of give an idea. God, Vince, they have a midterm on a week-long class? Well, let's just say the midterms on Wednesday were not very good.

Uh-oh. The professor was upset. Significantly, I was very concerned. And when I talked to them on Saturday after they presented, which were really good. like probably the best I've said. I was honest with them. I said, you were all a train wreck on Wednesday. You basically have made grounds as far as where they are.

And yeah, I mean, it's an exhausting week, but it's probably, as I always say, it's probably one of the more enjoyable weeks. Are you willing to reveal, like, because there's a fake trade deadline, what the best non-real but simulated trade that you saw? It wasn't a trade. So we had our clutch group.

which was our students, come up and tell us where LeBron was going. As I said, it was fictional. They had him go to Minnesota to join Anthony Edwards and Lamello in that group. We saw Devin Booker get traded to Orlando as part of the deal. So, yeah, we had some big numbers.

The team that won at all was Chicago, which really just did a nice job as far as identifying who they were as a group. But it was fun. like a fun, a fun process for them to go through. And I always said like, you know, when you have a deadline, they had three and a half hours to do the trade deadline from 830 to noon. When you have a deadline, your reactions are different, right? Everybody just reacts differently here as far as where they were during the week. It's fascinating. We should put it on YouTube. It would get aggregated.

I want to sit in on this. Well, you know what the beauty of it is too is like, and you know, listen, you can talk about AI all you want, but when you present, like how AI has incorporated presentations, right? Like what teams can, what people can do now with AI is really a remarkable thing. And yeah, it's, I remember we did this in February,

in LA, but it was an expansion draft and taking pictures of what they're able to, people actually thought it was real, like when I, you know, it's how social media works and everything. But it was a, as I said,

it's always a rewarding, rewarding experience. All right. And now you, sleep until LeBron. We choose. Until LeBron. That's right. All right. Thank you to Miles, Mark, Tucker, and Jackson.

Put it together. Thank you to Bobby and Vinny. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll be back later this week or probably actually before when we hear from the Ron.