Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - FULL Analysis Of Jonathan Kuminga Negotiations

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Anthony Slater and Aaron Turner, the President of Basketball at Verus and Jonathan Kuminga’s agent, to give a full break down of the negations between Kuminga and the Golden State Warriors. The guys go over the history that got us to this point, where things stand and what to expect moving forward. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. All right. Hello and welcome the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing right now on Thursday afternoon. We've got a unique, something we're not done before, a type of podcast here today, which I'll explain in a minute. First off, joining me from Sacramento, California, Anthony Slater. What's up, Slater? I'm doing great. You know, you guys were just complimenting my backyard prior to this. So I'm feeling great. You're really doing great because you're a Cleveland Guardians fan. And moments ago, they just completed a sweep of the Tigers. This is a very Cleveland podcast because Brian has obviously Cleveland ties and you're about to get to our guest. And actually, I am in Akron right now.

So I just got to Northeast Ohio. Joining us is the president of Various basketball and the representative of Jonathan Cumminga, who's been in the news a little bit lately. Aaron, thank you so much for coming on the hoop collective. Oh, thanks for having me. Glad we get the wrap. Yeah, and you're joining us from Cleveland, which is where you live and where you're from. I'm here in Ohio. It's a beautiful day.

We were just talking before he came on. You went to Orange High School, which is on the east side of Cleveland. And you played against LeBron James in high school and dominated him from what, I think that's what you just said. I'll let you clear the record, but I think that's what you said. Far from that, but I did get, he got one foul that when he played against us. It was against me. So I have that. So he, he fouled you.

Followed me. Those are stats now, right? you could find in the box score like Drew how many personal fouls drawn oh there in the archives he's just couldn't move his feet quick enough so yeah that that was on his scouting report he's the only high school I've ever seen get a foul called be able to run down to the other side of the floor put his hands up in the air and it was like no tech don't worry about it come back down I've seen more than one high school kid yet okay so the but before we get into the business here what I like is this great story there was one game LeBron's senior year was a senior year right yeah so you're a year younger than

abroad. We played him. He was a, well, depends what junior year, we played him at the Kent field house game we were talking about. Okay. So your junior year, his senior year, right? Because you're your younger. That was his junior year. It was right when the sports illustrated cover came out. Oh, right. Okay. So the Sports Illustrated cover comes out. Here's the thing. The Lakers have an off night in Cleveland. They are the defending champions. They are in there. I think that year, maybe they won their third of three. So they are the two-time champs. They have an off night in Cleveland. LeBron is playing St. Vincent, St. Mary, go Irish.

Our football team hasn't scored a point yet. It's like four weeks into the season. I'm just going to bring that up. I'm sorry to say. They're playing in Canton. Canton from Cleveland is what, Aaron? Hour. Okay, and it's February, right?

So middle of the winter, the Lakers have an off night. Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant, how many nights do you think that they spent together on off nights? Do you think that they hung out a lot on off nights during that time? Okay, they get in the car drive an hour to Canton to watch you guys play. Kobe and Shaq show up at your game. Like you're playing against LeBron, who's on the cover of Sports Illustrated like a couple of days before. And Kobe and Shaq at their height, well, maybe not Kobe's height, but certainly Shaq's height.

Yeah. Show up at your game. What the heck was that? What were you guys saying on the bench when that went down? I remember that. It was, it was, our coach was. It was during a timeout. He was drawing up.

Nobody could hear him. I mean, you couldn't even hear it. It was the loudest I'd ever seen a arena. And, you know, the Canton Fieldhouse where it was the way it's built, you know, 5,000 people packed in. I mean, you couldn't hear anything that anybody was saying for the next 30 seconds. They were like fashionably late like they came in like the first. Yeah, yeah.

And it was so loud. And it was in a timeout and no one had any idea what our coach was saying. That is amazing. I mean, that's kind of freaky, man, right? I mean, just to see Shaq in person. You know, you never get used to it. Yeah. No, it's it's all very wild.

All right. Well, the reason you're here is because you're in the middle of the most intense negotiation going on in the NBA right now. And I will tell you, this is my 23rd year covering the NBA. I can't speak with, you know, confidence about the 90s. But in my 23 years covering the NBA, this might be the toughest summer for a restricted free agent that we've seen. And if it's not the toughest, it's right up there. It's not worth arguing over. There was only a couple of teams with cap space.

None of them were interested in giving out offer sheets. I think there was only one offer sheet that's been given out this summer. And it was like given out by the Hawks for like a couple million dollars. It was not a material offer sheet. And for the four, three or four big name restricted free agents, it was like kind of like a nuclear summer. Like it was going to be, which you knew, right? Like going in, it wasn't like this is a surprise. prize you knew. So you were facing a tough situation. And you're representing a player and Jonathan

Kaminga, who is still ascendant in his career. He is, I think you would agree, he has not achieved his, his max that he can achieve. So even if he's unrestricted, or even if there's a ton of cap space out there and you're negotiating with four or five different offer sheets, negotiating for a player like this is challenging because you're, you're betting on him rising. up. So we have a situation that I will say, you don't have to use the words, I'll say it. It's one of the most challenging markets for restricted free agent with arguably the most challenge. You know, Josh Giddy was kind of in the same boat, same sort of challenge, but he had been at least a more established starter this last season. So you have gone through this, what I would assume, was a

pretty stressful summer. And it's still going on. And so, how did we get here to where we're on September 18th and you're still in this stalemate with JK and the Warriors? Yeah, no. I mean, that's well said. And it has been a brutal year for any restricted free agent, any even free agent in general, outside above the mid-level. It's the high-end free agent market this year is basically it isn't.

It doesn't exist. It's not open. So that challenge has been there. We knew it was going to be there. But we're really in this place, you know, now with two weeks, less than two weeks away from training camp. And I know Slater's been tracking this the whole summer and before even, you know, July 1st when things could start talking with the Warriors and whatnot. You know, this is a interesting pattern. And I've had a lot of people talking about the other restrictive free agents or what's going on.

And each one kind of has its own unique set of circumstances. And this one is very unique, you know, the combination. of how they finished, you know, Jimmy coming in, Steve's, you know, having a hard time figuring out the combinations that would work with JK on the floor. Steve openly stating that many times is he, you know, and also after the season. And then JK's developmental arc and what he's looking to do and, you know, where he wants to go, all these things have made this very, very challenging outside of, you know, of course, no free agent market, but us finding a deal with them.

So that's why we are sitting here now two weeks away. And like I was laughing, you know, before we got on, Jonathan's in Cleveland with me working out. That's not normally how my September goes. I'm normally relaxing, you know, taking my... Everybody knows that Cleveland is the hub of the NBA offseason. I mean, that's why we're here. That's why I'm here. Everybody comes here.

That's right. No, it's, but, you know, that's kind of our, you know, our... We had scripted normally, he's, you know, going to be in Miami. And then he goes back to the... Bay or wherever team he was going to be. And we kind of just threw this together last minute and said, hey, let's give him a good infrastructure in Cleveland. So he's got everything he needs here and he's working. And, you know, we're doing the best we can to simulate games and keep him, you know, ready to go and in shape if even if that means, you know, he doesn't report until October

first, you know, we want him to be ready and in great shape. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. So we can, there's so much like, you know, pretty. text to this obviously, but speeding it up for the moment. We know the offers. We've reported the offers that are sitting there on the table three for 75 with a team option three for 54, I believe, no options. And then the one that's been sitting there most of the summer, two for 45, one and one team option on it. I am of the belief at this point that y'all are not that misaligned on like per year value. Obviously, you went on the record with me a couple days ago talking about if that team option

in the three-year deal and you could even speak to it, maybe even in the two-year deal. If that team option was a player option, it's not only signed, but you know, you have a, you know, a bought in Jonathan Kamiga at that point. Why? Why is the player option, the final hurdle here? And why is it being, you know, I guess negotiated as as strictly right now between the two sides? So I'm going to kind of go back to last summer a little bit. Because I think if we're going to, you know, we could go back to, to the first year of JK. We could go back to the, you know, with the JK Steve dynamic, We could go to year two where, you know, in March, end of February, March, up to early April, JK was a big, big part of, you know, them getting into the playoffs, even that year they played

the Kings when Wiggins was dealing with some personal issues and whatnot. And he average, you know, 13 and a half a game and really was really efficient. I think it's true shooting percentage was like 64% during that time period. And then, you know, kind of falling back again during the playoffs as the rotation tightened. And then going into year three where he had. you know, 20, 25 game span where he was phenomenal. He was, you know, Dremont was saying, you know, this guy's never going to not be an all-star.

Enjoy your last all-star break, JK, because you're going to be an all-star the rest of your career. So there's a lot of things leading up to last summer where, you know, you know, do we get something done? And I know there's been a lot of conversations and, you know, about what happened last summer. And I'm bringing this all to get to your points later of like why we are now, the player option and all that. But, you know, the Warriors, they didn't want to do a deal. summer. I know everyone, people have reported, did you guys turn down five years 150? We would have taken that. We would have, we would have had to take that if it was on the table. But it wasn't on the table. And I didn't, no one was mad about it. It was the warriors wanted to maintain flexibility. Had they given JK pretty much anything above 20 million, they would have, I mean, even above the mid level, to be honest with you, they would have been not been able to move him. That poison pill provision that would have said, hey, you know, if you trade him out, you know, that team has to take them back is, you know, 25.

26th salary, they would have, they would have no chance to get a Kevin Durant like they almost did last year with JK being the centerpiece. So that was the choice they made. They didn't want to do a deal. Again, no one was upset about that. But, you know, we went into this year or last season, you know, hoping that they would, there would be kind of more of an opportunity to figure this all out. And, you know, JK had moments where he was given a long runway, end of December, early January, and really flourished. But there was a lot of ups. downs, ups downs, ups downs, up downs. And that's kind of been the theme, you know, in year four, there was one moment where it was like, hey, we're passing the torch to JK. You know, this is his

time. He was coming off a big 33-point game. Dremont Green accepted a bench roll. If, you know, people might remember for a few games. And they basically, you know, kind of announced, if he's up next, we got to see it. That was during that time. And it lasted a few games. And then he was back coming off the bench. And it was very frustrating. So, you know, and in that month in December, he averaged 21 points six rebounds he was really really good so you know then unfortunately and i the steve jk dynamic was really flourishing and jk gets this really bad you know ankle sprain which was unfortunate because like i said that was to me the high point of steve and jk they were they were really doing well everything was revived and um and then again he gets hurt jimmy comes in jimmy was phenomenal

you know and we get to this point where you know we're now in this weird spot where you know obviously they committed a bunch of money to Jimmy. Everyone understands that. But now it's like, where do we go? And it's funny, I always say this about the NBA with my guys. Like, you don't get too high. You don't get too low because when something happens, you don't know necessarily if it's good or bad.

But when, you know, Steph got hurt against Minnesota and JK filled in, he had a great series. I thought he played really well. And I was happy for him in the sense that, you know, having getting D&Ps and stuff that was going on in Houston, he got to show that. But it probably made all this a lot harder even. because Joe was sitting court side watching JK, you know, you know.

Joe Lake of the lower Arizona. I'm just in case it's your guy's life, but I just have to fill in, you know, filling. People are going to figure who Jimmy is, but just to be just to be clear. Right. So Joe Lake of, you know, he's sideline and, you know, he's watching JK, you know, shred essentially the one of the best defenses in the league, you know, after all-star break last year.

And I think he finished average in 21 a game that series 54 from the field, 42 from three. And so it's like, okay, we get to the side. summer, this guy's clearly got some talent. Where are we going with this? And, you know, that's why we're, we're in this spot of this confusion of where do we go from here. And I think that that's kind of moved this summer. And so when you get to the player option, the kind of the way we look at it and have approached this from day one, you know, there's been a lot of stuff I've heard JK doesn't want to be with the Warriors. Like, we can unpack that a little bit. I think JK is the hardest worker I've ever

represented from a one to ten, his work ethic is an 11. He loves it. He's competitive. I've kind of said this about him. His biggest flaw sometimes is he wants it too much. So, you know, he's gotten a chance to hear from other teams, Sacramento. You know, he spent some time with them, got to meet Scott Perry, Doug Christie, the sons and what they've offered them. And there's been other teams too who, you know, maybe planting seeds for 26, 27, but saying, hey, you know, we want you to be you. We don't want you to change anything. We want to put the ball in your hands, we want to give you a huge opportunity to play. So I don't think it's more about not being on, you know, not wanting to be on the Warriors because the Warriors, if having reped guys on all

different teams, it is first class as you get. I mean, everything there is awesome from the facility, how they treat the guys. It's like amazing. But these other places are offering them opportunities to start games, finish games, right? Know your role. We don't want you to change anything. We want you to continue to develop spread your wings. So with Golden State, it's not a secret, right? JK's in Slater, you made this point the other day on ESPN. No guarantee he starts any games. He may, but we don't know. Finishing games night tonight. Who knows, it depends if Steve has a combination he likes and it's working. Maybe he sticks with it. Maybe he doesn't. You know, you're going to have to not have the ball as much. You're going to have to stay away from developing certain parts of

your game or wanting to lean into certain part of your game, especially shooting. any type of mid-range jump shots, which is something JK does work on. But in the Golden State offense and the roll he's in, that's not going to be a big shot that he's really going to be able to take much. So part of it is you're going to have to sacrifice your game from where other people would allow you to do for now his fifth year. In addition to that, he might get traded. He knows that.

We know that. They know that. I mean, we went in exploring all options. You know, myself, Mike Dunleavy, can we find a sign in trade that works? Can we duck around this base compensation rule? that only allows them to bring back half the money. But he knows it's a real, real thing you may get traded. And I really can't find where I've seen a free agent at, you know,

20 million above where you sign and go, you know, I know I'm going to get very good chance. I mean, 100% agree. It's very rare. It's very rare. Right. And I've said that. So he doesn't want to move three months from now. He doesn't want to, you know, take his, you know, pack up his life and move.

So there's the dynamic of sacrificing your game. There's the dynamic of moving halfway through the season. And mid-season trades for players, Brian, you've been around, like, are a lot different than off-season moving teams. You know, when you have to pack up in the middle of the season, like the players want to know, I'm going to be here. It's why the trade deadline, everyone, you know, is so antsy about. But anyway. Yeah, no, I mean, that's so we look at, you know, the sacrifice of his game. We look at that.

And then, you know, these other teams, you know, Matt Ishbio, who is openly, you know, he wanted, he would give JK whatever he could if he had the cap space. he's trying to figure it out through a sign and trade. And JK has heard these conversations. So he knows what's out there. He knows the deals, the guaranteed money, the opportunity. So when you factor all that in, you know, the thought is, okay, if we're coming back here and it's win now, this is Steph's probably last window to win, like help us out on the back end of the deal because we're going to be sacrificing what we just spoke about. And that's why the player option has been so pushed by us. I give credit to J.K. There's a lot said about him that he only cares about himself or scoring.

It couldn't be farther from the truth. J.K.'s not a guy that says, oh, man, I scored 30, 25. He just wants to be a part of what's going on. He does, of course, want to have the ball more. He wants the ball in his hands. But he's not a guy that doesn't want to win. He wants to be part of that. And before we started this negotiation, I came to him. And I've been educating him through this process. And he's learned a lot through this process. and I said to him, hey, look at the Warriors' cap sheet, all right? They have some second apron issues. It's probably unreasonable to ask them to go over that. Even though we like Jalen Green's deal, we see Jalen Johnson's deal, two guys that we think were, hey, not going to say who's better, but okay, we see these deals. We like those numbers, but that's probably unrealistic here. And how are they going to get the team better and bring you back?

And, you know, we knew about the Al Horfer, had heard about what was going on with Allen to J.K.'s credit. He said, look, I'll sacrifice for that. Give Al the taxpayer mid-level comes in. It helps. We've never had a stretch five like that. Steve has said openly, you know, having a stretch five, some of the combinations that might loosen up the floor for the Jimmy, J. Raymond, JK, dynamic. Maybe Al can really help with that. So, you know, he was all on board with that. But because we were going to, you know, take a number on the front that, you know, we thought was maybe at a lower level than some of Jalen Green, Jalen Johnson, some of these other guys to help this. team win in this, this window, then let us have the player option on the back end, you know,

as, and if JK, it's not that he wouldn't stay in Golden State, but if he wants to stay, he'd have the ability to stay. And if he doesn't, then okay, he's, he's, nothing's forcing him back to the table. So that's really Slater where the, the player option became important, because the way I look at it in a lot of deals, and I think this is a lot of businesses, it's, you know, you're going to take less on the front end, you get a little more on the back end. If you want more on the front end, you're going to get less on the back end. And in this situation, to help the team win, along with those kind of sacrifices we spoke about, we felt like that solution.

And J.K. feels like it is fair. We think it's fair. We think it's the right thing to do. And listen, I get it's the NBA. And there's business and there's negotiations. And it's, you know, a lot of people say, you know, you can only, you're worth what you can negotiate. Okay, and I know that because I've been in a bunch of different negotiations, but in this situation, and, you know, people have said to me, he has no market. There's no market. It's not that he doesn't have a market. The market is closed. Okay, it's closed. So if I have a, you know, a Lamborghini and I'm in a bind and I say to somebody, hey, man, you know, it's Saturday night. I need some cash for whatever reason I wouldn't be in this situation. But I need some cash. It's a 911. I got to help my family, whatever that is. Monday morning, you can sell this car for. $175,000. You know, can you, can you give me that? And, you know, maybe this is a friend of mine

or somebody that I do business with. Give me 175. Give me even 160. Go sell it for 175 on Monday. You'll get your return right out of it. They say, no, we'll give you, we'll give you 60 grand. Like, man, you could sell it Monday morning. The Lamborghini dealership will be open. And they say, nah, what do you want to do? Do you want to handle your emergency or not? This is what we're offering you. So the whole theory of like, JK doesn't have a market, especially if the teams he's talking to, his market's closed. It's not open this year. Do your point, Brian, it's the worst RFA market we've seen. There is no market. So that doesn't mean that a deal is fair or not fair to him just because the market is close. And I've said from the beginning to Mike and the

Warriors, you're not selling the basketball here. Steve, and I like Steve, you know, I've known Steve Kerr since I was five years old. That's a whole other story. It's pretty wild, full circle thing back when you played with the calves, Brian. But, you know, he, he, him and J.K. have had an up and down relationship. J.K. has flourished under Steve at times. I don't really buy the whole thing. J.K. can't play for Steve.

I always say, you know, who, when J.K. was scoring 25, 26 a game, who was, who was on the sidelines? It was Steve. He can play under Steve. I know Steve at some points, and he made this very clear at the end of the season. I like a different type of player arc. You know, he kind of, he'll say he wants J.K. to be more like Aaron Gordon, Sean Marion.

I don't agree with Steve on that side. I don't think JK is very much like those guys. I think they're different player arcs. I think JK's just different. I'm not saying who's better, who's not. But Aaron Gordon's more playing off the ball. He's not as much of a point of attack defender. It's just they're different.

So Steve made it clear though, right? With Traymond, with Jimmy, the shooting, lack of shooting, it doesn't really, you know, fit. So again, if he's going to come back to this, Mike, you know, these other teams, right, you know, hey, JK, we head coaches saying we believe in you, we're excited to have you, we want you to be here and play your game, sell the deal, sell the deal structure, because that's the warrior's incumbent advantage, right, over everyone else.

They can sell the best deal. And that's where I thought we could bridge a gap. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Yeah, well, let's get into the qualifying offer and the reasons why you guys are, you know, saying you might take it at this point. They would argue, particularly on the front end of the deal, they are offering more than theoretical sons and king's offers. And if you decide the team option is, deal is a no-go in the next 12 days, the one piece of leverage you clearly have in this negotiations in a restricted-free

agent market is taking the qualifying offer. Now that is one year, 7.9 million. It does come with unrestricted free agency. It does come with a no-trade clause. But it also comes with if you did the one-in-one that's been on the table all summer, what, like 13, 14 less million for Jonathan Kamagan next season. If you refuse the two plus one with the team option, that's, you know, whatever, do the math for me, somebody here. But, you know, we're talking about whatever it is, like 40-something guaranteed compared to eight. What is your view of the qualifying offer and why are you willing to take it or are you? Yeah, well, you brought up a good point there. You know, I pitched the player option deal, right, to give them flexibility. We haven't said no to a team option. Our theory and feeling is, though,

if you want a team option and you want to get rid of his no trade clause, which the QO inherently has, okay, that's a different price. You got to pay for that. Okay, you got to put more on top if you want both. I've also pitched just before we get to taking the QO, hey, fine, we'll do the one plus one scenario, but let him keep his no trade clause, which would put us in the same position we are right now, but with no base compensation rule. So JK at least has a seat at the table to figure out where he wants to go next. And you guys would have the back end of the deal, but they won't do that. that. So they've really tried to make a deal where they have no risk and are taking, you know, to me, advantage of the situation of the market being closed. So JK, when and why is the QO a real

thing? If you know Jonathan, he is very, has a lot of self-belief. He's very confident. I tell people all the time, you know, and I tell the words, look who you're dealing with. I don't know many people that could be getting D&Ps in the playoffs, not play for three weeks, come into game two against Minnesota make his first nine shots, then go out the next night and have 30 points and six rebounds at his age, you know, 20 some the next night, 29 to finish the series, and have that level of confidence and self-belief. Yeah, and I would say like, you know, Brian, you know, there's a very wide range of belief around the league of how good Jonathan Kimiga can be. We, you know, we may in, on this call, have varying degrees. There's certainly, you know, disproportionate, you know, views within

the organization, the Warriors organization of how good he can be. But it is, you know, is Aaron Turner and Jonathan Kaminga believe he's going to be a multi-time all-star. He has that type of talent. And that is who the Warriors are negotiating with, a side that believes, you know, once he does get control, once he does get a runway, that's where the takeoff is going. Yeah, no, he believes that. I believe that. Our group around him believes that. We believe he's more about the right things than I think a lot of people think. I think some of the times, you know, people say, well, he took this shot or that shot that he shouldn't take. And, you know, playing with Steph, you have to really understand how

to play with Steph. And it's something that's why I see a lot of vets really furnish in the role of understanding how to look for Steph first. And sometimes JK's 22. He's like, I can get downhill right away and he won't. So he has, he has a lot of self-belief. Can I keep the question simple, though, like he's willing to leave this much money on the table? Yeah, my bet. Sorry, getting big. I was framing to why the QO. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, that's the big thing here, because we're talking straight dollars and cents here. They are offering a ton of money. Yeah. And he is saying maybe I will not take that money. Right. So when we look at these deals, one of the things he'll say to me is like, you know, is this deal, you know, fair to me? And based on the, what we discussed,

is it fair? No, I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's right. I think that it's taking advantage of the circumstances, which for, for J.K., you know, that's not what he's looking for. So when you say, will he take the QO, he will take the QO. But if he's treated fairly and in our mind, that's flipping, like I said, the T-O to the P-O. He's back, and then we don't have to talk about the QO. But the QO is real. It's something that, you know, if JK wants to take, it does have upside, right? We've talked about that.

You don't get, you know, you're not getting traded. You're going to have unrestricted free agency in a year that even people want to say, well, Aaron, there's not going to be 10 or 12 teams. Fine. There'll be six teams of cap space for the clear cut, you know, under 35, the top wing on the market. So there's a lot of upside. if, you know, he wants to pick where he wants to go and, you know, the opportunity to be an unrestricted free agent in a way better market. So the QO is real for sure. There's, there's no, it's being

considered completely. It's being talked about. We've, you know, as you reported it said, we've gotten a disability policy out for him that would, you know, hedge out some of the injury risk. But it's not something, you know, anybody wants to do. Neither side. I mean, Brian, you know, clearly that we wouldn't be here on September 18th on this podcast, discuss. this if either side wanted that to be the outcome. Yeah, I would just say, I would just say like, first off, Aaron, I really appreciate you coming on because this is really a one-off situation I can't remember where you're in the middle of the negotiation, you're willing to bring the fans in to hear this.

Because I'm telling you, there's incredible amount of interest in Jonathan's free agency, more than I can remember, and probably because he's on the Warriors, and partially because he's in September and he's the number one free agent on the market. And the Warriors have signed nobody officially. at this point. Well, that's true. I do see a lot of people, you know, like, why aren't the war is signing anybody? They're going to sign a bunch of guys. But I would just say that having been around for a while, you know, I've just seen a lot of stuff. I've seen restricted free agencies go into December. I've seen teams have multiple restricted free agents that don't come to training

camp, okay? I've seen restricted free agencies end at the end of training camp. I've seen them end in the season. From my viewpoint, Aaron, and I totally get that you are absolutely eyeball deep in this. Because the thing about an agent does like a lot of stuff that people don't see, your job is a lot deeper and more encompassing than just negotiating the contract. But your work product to the world is the contract.

And not only that, everybody sees it. You know, if you're a development coach, maybe you did a great job or maybe you did a bad job, but nobody can necessarily see it. Maybe the player gets better and that doesn't really reflect your work. In the case of an agent or representative, that I'm trying to work out, not saying agent, I've been told that's bad.

Your work product is what the contract is. So it's my way of saying, I totally understand you are eyeball deep and fighting it. From my perspective, as a jaded guy who's been around for 20 years and seen a lot of this stuff, I feel like everybody is acting as normal here. I think the warriors are trying to use their perceived leverage. They know that you can't get an offer sheet, so they're trying to squeeze you. I think if you were their general manager and the situation was reversed, Well, I won't put that on you.

I would just say if I was a general manager and the situation was reversed, I probably would be trying to squeeze you too. In your situation, Aaron, which you've done is you've tried to flop the tables on that. Number one, you got offers from other teams. Okay, the Warriors don't seem interested in the sign and trades. That's cost to do in business. You can get sign and trade offers if you can't do the deal. You can't do the deal.

But based on Anthony and Shams Tarania's reporting from this week, you've gotten them to increase their offer. their offers now are better than they were a month ago. You've done your job. Okay, job's not finished, Kobe Bryant, what have you? They're coming up with their offers. They're offering more years and more money. They're dealing with the second apron.

But I do think that unless I'm wrong, you correct me if I'm wrong, they're offering more than either the sons or the kings have offered, not because they don't want to offer more, but because they're limited what they can do in the sign and trade. So they can look you in the eye and say, we're making a best offer. And they can look at you in the eye and say, hey, we don't want to do a player option

because we didn't give one to Steph. We didn't give one to Jimmy Butler last year. They did give one to Draymond. But Draymond, and correct me if I'm wrong, Slater on this. Draymond did take a pay cut as part of this contract. Yeah, he ripped up his player option, signed at a lower number. And I know just because- Andrew Wiggins got a player option too.

Oh, he did. Okay. All right. Well, anyway, they can look you in the eye and say, that's why we didn't do it. If Steph doesn't get one, you don't be able to get one. I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying what they could say. And, you know, I think everybody's doing their job here, Aaron. And I think you're working really hard. And the Warriors are working really hard. And in the end, I think it is interesting because of the possible trade.

I think the Warriors, they wouldn't say it publicly. But I do think they're negotiating a contract, not just to save Joe Lake of money and not just to protect their apron. I mean, both of those are true. I think they're working hard because they want to get a contract that's as tradable as possible. And I don't think they necessarily admit that, but I, but I think all these things are in play. No, it's been admitted. It's, it's, we, J.K. is a big boy. We, we know what it is. And I think, you know, my, I have a lot of optimism. If he comes back and to Slater's point, people are worried about the buy-in, right? And I think buying, what does buying mean in this situation? Yeah, they're worried that if he takes a qualifying offer, he's going to be checked out. Or even, by the way, even if he takes a team, a deal that isn't the deal that likes. I think

there's there's curiosity especially again with as i reported the other day you know is he going to be happy and if he's not happy what does that mean on the floor and in the locker room yeah i think i think that's the and from the beginning i've said this i mean every rfa situation is different but the warriors are trying to win and anybody who's watched the warriors closely understands jk is a massive piece i understand he didn't play in the playing the playing game in the houston series but in an 82 regular season game season, 82 game season, 12 of their first 17 are back to backs. They're older. That's just the truth, right?

J.K. is vital. He was their third leading score last year. And him coming back, and I believe this is, you know, the thunder of set the bar, right? They are very close-knit as a team. He, for him to come back and, you know, be all about, you know, feeling good, I think that's, that's very, very important. And so when you look at, you know, where this is gone, you know, Brian, I would say that, you know, to me, again, this is, I agree, you're taking, the warriors are doing what they, you know, can based on the rules and whatnot. But if JK is very important to your team, you know, I would need a guy, you know, bought in.

And I think the problem for them, if JK doesn't feel good about the deals being offered is if he comes back on the QO, and a lot of times you talk to GMs around the league, when you're in win now mode like the Warriors are, right? right and trying to maximize the rest of stuff in Tremont's window and Jimmy and his, you know, get him his first ring. You need everybody bought in. And a lot of times you'll hear people say, you know, I don't really want a guy who hasn't gotten paid yet or gotten a bigger contract, even if it's an older guy on an expiring deal in a year that you're trying to win everything. Because naturally, where is that person's mind going to? So do I think, you know, if JK came back on the QO, would he be excited to play? Yeah, he's itching to play right now. But the reality is the number one thing for JK and his family. And if I'm watching, you know, advising is he's got to get to the summer of 26, 27, healthy. That is the most important thing. So, you know, if JK wasn't that important to the Warriors, fine.

And I, you know, Slater and I talk about this, I'll see, you know, a fan base or some of the people say, why this guy's holding everything up. Like, get rid of them. You know, I don't like this guy. Fine. That's my point. If you don't like them, that's fine. But let him go.

But if you're not going to let him go or renounce him, then you have your full mid-level. You can sign and trade. You can move and shake. But if he is important and he does matter, you've got to get him to a place where he feels good about the deal. And the QO for JK has risk, but it has upside in its own way. It'll take him a couple years to make back maybe the money he would lose. But again, he believes in himself. I believe in him.

We've looked at his 10-year forecast. We've put it in Excel spreadsheets. We've done all that. But he's also educated himself on what the QO means to the other side, to the Warriors. And we've talked through this many times. And he believes the Warriors need them. He thinks his teammates do. I do.

I think everybody who's really watched the Warriors thinks he's a very important piece. Now, would we get deeper in the season in a playoff series, would Steve maybe move him out of the rotation? Sure, that's possible. We've seen it before. But to get through 82 games, to manage minutes, back-to-backs, he's very important. And whether it's with him or his number, he is a very, very important. he is a very he is really the most important piece for the warriors because they need him to take a jump and ascend especially to play against the thunder and I was one of my people when I talk to people around the league I said if you really want to study jk and learn about jk just watch him against the thunder that'll tell you everything you need to know how he plays against them how he how he steps up against them so they need that and if it's not him they need his number they need to move him to bring somebody else to help him Go look at their cap sheet and go see the movable salaries they have if Jonathan Kaminga is on a QO.

This is such a reality of the new era that you can talk so openly about. Because like, let's be honest, this is what the Warriors did with DeAngel Russell. They signed the Angela Russell in the Durant sign and trade so that they could have a piece to trade later, which they did for Wiggins, which ended up being a big move. Oh, by the way, not only for, they didn't just trade him for Andrew Wiggins. traded him for the draft pick that became Jonathan Camming. Yes. Yes. And so anyway, I just says, we'll wrap up now. But I will say that it's easy for me to say this because I got no skin in the game, Aaron. But I say at the end of this, the Warriors are going to have a contract that they can trade. It may not be as tradable as they

dreamed of. Jonathan is going to be protected financially. And you're going to have made a major stride from where they were on July 1st to where they are in September, whatever. And I think it's all going to work out. But again, it's for me to say that. The only thing I would ask you, Brian, is do you think JK on a 2 plus 1 in that number age is not a tradable contract? And the plus one, you're talking player, not to you. Is that not a tradable contract? I think it, I think it reduces his value marginally. Like, like if you, you know, if you're trying to get the most tradable thing, you don't want the player on a short deal because the team who's trading, you, for him doesn't want to have to deal with worrying about him in a year. But it's not like,

no, it's not crushing. It's not like you're signing him to a, to a 17 year contract. It's not ideal. It's not the front end and the back end. And my point, and we can leave on this. The point is, if you want to win now and to the points we made of why we value the player option and JK does, and you want a guy that's happy and feels treated fairly, who is a big part of this team, we believe moving forward. You give him the player option. You're right, Brian. You did lose a little bit of that, you know, trade value. But if it's about the here and now, you give him that, you keep your relationship and you don't get a perfect deal, but you get a pretty good deal. And he gets to feel respected about what he gets. And we all move on and worry about winning.

And like he said, helping Steph. And he said this in the meeting with Joe. You know, I'm all in to help Steph. Let's send him out. We should be focusing on winning right now, and I'm fine with that. But again, you have to take a little bit of the hit, you know, Warriors in terms of you don't have the back end. But if Jake, two years from now, you want to keep him, you have his bird rights, you treat them good and you show him, hey, the plan around him, then maybe you keep him. So it's not perfect, but I don't think anybody can get anything they really want. If you ask Jay-K., he wants Jalen Green's deal. He's not getting that. He wants Jalen Johnson deal. You're not getting that. Warriors, we feel like pick front end, number lower, player option,

if that number needs to be lower to stay in the second apron, or it's about really controlling the back into the deal. Move the number up, shake your roster up, and you can have a team option. Or the hybrid model, let him keep his no trade clause. Well, I would just say one of my big theories anybody listens to this podcast knows I'm an actions over words guy. I think Mike Dunleavy is doing his job. I think you're doing your job. I think Jonathan did his job because he's getting offered, you know, tens of millions of dollars a year. He did his job to get to this point. And the actions of the Warriors are the actions of a team that wants to get the player under contract. I don't know if they envision him as a guy that's going to be there in 2030, but their actions are of a

player who wants to get him under contract, and your job is to get the best possible, and you're in the middle of the fight. And I appreciate you opening this window and letting us know the way you're thinking, and we'll see how it goes. But I think at the end of this, I really do believe everybody's going to be able to feel good about it. And I say that I've seen restricted free agencies end where that's not the case. I feel like this is going to be there. And you can say to me, yeah, but I wouldn't disagree with you. Brian loves happy endings.

The movie and I should, sorry, can we cut that out? Thanks, Slater. No, don't cut it. I want you to leave it in. It's fine. Brian loves movies with Rosie finishes. There you go. This can work.

I think the biggest thing on Slater touched on this other day, I think it is important when you have a player this important as JK to feel good about the business. so that the basketball can be the focus. If the winning didn't matter and it was like, hey, whatever, then I would agree that, you know, how he feels is probably pretty irrelevant. But I think, you know, he's pretty important. They won't let him go. And if you're going to tell somebody, your contract's over with us,

and you have a team that wants to give you $100 million or so and a player option and a starting role, but we're not going to let you go and we're not going to give you a great deal. We're going to give you the deal we can take advantage. Don't ask any. I wouldn't ask somebody to necessarily be happy about that. I know I personally wouldn't really be very happy about that. Hey, Aaron, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you to Slater for being here and setting this up. Thank you to our producer, Jackson. And thank you for listening and watching to this unique edition of the Hoop Collective. We will talk to you soon.