Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Full Breakdown Of Mavs Firing GM Nico Harrison + Spurs’ Youth & Cavs Health Issues

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss what led to the firing of Dallas GM Nico Harrison including a unique atmosphere for the Bucks-Mavs game, the impact on the team and why it happened now. Plus, what will happen for the Mavericks moving forward and if they should consider trading Anthony Davis or Kyrie Irving. Then, the guys talk a concerning injury to Cleveland’s star guard Darius Garland before discussing the ascension of Stephon Castle in San Antonio and if the Magic are turning things around. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to HOOP Collective podcast. We talked about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon. We're all wearing suits.

Because this show is on ESPN2? No, because we're all busy. Joining us from the Xfinity Mobile Arena in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where the Boston Celtics are visiting the 76ers on Tuesday night. It's Tim Bontems. There's some news here in Philly, fellas, but it's not the news of the day. Nope, that's in Dallas with our man band McMann. and joining us with his TV close on.

Howdy, partners, and adios, Nico. Well, that is certainly what you were thinking was going to happen. I'm not sure how soon you thought it was going to happen, but it seems like Monday night was a difficult and seminal night at the American Airlines Center. You were there, McMahon. Take us through it. Well, first of all, Patrick Dumont showed up to a game

for the second time this season. The first time since the season opener, which you boys might remember, was a 33-point blowout loss to that alien, Victor Wimbenyama and the San Antonio Spurs. Now, I do believe Patrick Dumont showed up basically knowing what he had to do, knowing that it was time.

I'm not sure that holding on to beat the bucks were to save Nico's job last night, I believe this firing was going to happen, but it's been, look, the last nine months have been miserable, self-inflicted misery, but miserable for the Mavericks. The fact that Lucidant is the leading the league in scoring when the Mavericks are down at or near the bottom of the league in office efficiency certainly has not helped. The three-and-eight record has not helped, but more than anything, just the fact that for the fan base, the fury with Nico Harrison

was the focus, was the focal point. I mean, the surreal, most surreal scene in that Monday night game was when, you know, some snot-nosed SMU student, 18-year-old kid wearing a gold number 70s. He had gone to North Texas. Of course, there's no North Texas people sit in courtside.

I was going to say, no, North Texas people were... But if he was going to North Texas, he wouldn't be snot-nosed. If you're north-to-send-low seats, there's me and Mark Fowloh on the play-by-play seat, but we're working. I was going to say Mark Fowlo-well's got a nice court side seat, that's for sure. Exactly. But anyways, this kid, his daddy said, hey, you need to go apologize to Patrick Dumont. You cussed at him and you gave him the double words in the season of Oprah.

Go say you're sorry. So Dumont's, sit on down. And for about 10 minutes, he's sitting here talking. During the game, just to be clear, the game is going on. The second half. During the game with about 20 open court side seats around them. Which is not narrowly. No, I'm not.

I'm not saying it's unheard of at the start of the second half of a game. It's not. But it just made the whole thing that much more obvious as to what was going on. There was no masking the moment. And so surreal scene. And, you know, Christian Clark, our buddy at the athletic, among other people, talked to this kid. I don't have his name right in front of me, 18-year-old kid.

and he told him about the bird flipping and all that. I approached him. They said, Dumont accepted his apology. And Dumont bases in so many words said, hey, hang with me, buddy. My bat on the Luca deal. You know, we're going to, you know, we're going to get this thing back on track. So, I mean, come on.

The Maverick's blowing a 13-point lead in the fourth quarter is not what got Nico fired. It was all the lead up. And, you know, again, I told you guys. Last time we thought it that just Dumont's involvement on the is AD ready to return or not discussion, that told you. Like there was no more trust for Nico Harrison. By the way, AD sat again Monday night. The placards, you know, the signs that they put in the stands, and there were still a lot of those hanging around because there were a lot of empty seats, were a picture of AD. And in big letters that make some noise.

Well, the fans certainly did. And when I tell you, Niko was the focus, they are holding onto a one-possession lead with a little bit of seven minutes left in the fourth quarter. PJ Washington goes to the free throw line and deafening. Fire Nico chance breakout. Come on, man. By the way, Cooper Flag got a hellful game.

He made a great, amazing play in the final minute. One of the best place he's made so far. One of the best plays made a long time. Yeah, Cooper flag is, Cooper fight is going to be just fine. Yes. Like, there's been a lot of talk about Cooper's start. And like, as we've talked about the other day, this is a horrible fit currently for him as a guy playing on the ball in the moment, like playing on the ball with no shooting around him with all the other chaos going on. Like you said, the last 30 seconds of the game is going at Janus for a bucket.

He had a big game. Cooper is going to be just fine. And it's the one silver lining. and obviously what's been a horrible eight or nine months. Now, in full transparency, usually we're texting all day normally. We haven't really talked at all today as a group before the pod. Yeah.

But you, McMahon, I wanted to ask you, because you the other day, as you said, you laid out pretty directly, whether you thought I was going to happen by Wednesday or not or Tuesday. I thought maybe even too directly. I was like, boy. Well, the point is it, well, hold on. I didn't know day to day.

So, exactly. So you could see this coming, right? I guess this is the thing I've been thinking about today. We've been talking about whether Nico Harrison should be fired or not, going back to April, right? Like, I think the real question to ask, which is a fair one, and as of now, Patrick Dumont, it does not seem like he's going to speak publicly. We'll see if that changes. But why do this now two weeks into the season and not in April or not earlier or not later? He just told you.

later. Is it just, do we think it's just because of how? It was literally weighing on the team. Yeah. Well, I guess what I mean is like, why did they just, my question is more, did they hope that this would go away to some degree over the summer? Like, why not? Because like, nothing's really changed since April. I cannot say this with 100% certainty. So let me just frame this as educated speculation. I believe that winning the lottery temporarily, extended Nico Harrison's time as the general manager. The hope was, oh my goodness, we fell ass backwards into the number one overall pick and not that fortune favors the whole. I was told, I was told it was all part of the vision. Okay. I was told it was all part of the vision to get

to win the lottery. And we get that that's ridiculous. But the hope was, hey, this arrival, and it's not, this is not no disrespect. This is not Zachary Riesas Shea. This is a guy who people have been talking about for years and years and years is okay. This is. This is not. This is not. I just met Zach last night. And nice player, but not exactly arriving in the league with the kind of hype and expectations of a Cooper flag. You know, this, he might be the most hype prospect since LeBron in terms of build up. American. Yeah.

American prospect. Well, true, Wimby, obviously. Yes. But in terms of build up pre-draft, you know, and, you know, as he came to Lane, obviously, he's probably the biggest prospect since Anthony Davis, ironically, is who. the guy probably is. Probably since him. I think there was some hope, some optimism. Zion was a pretty big.

Okay. Let's not. Okay. Let's not. Let's not. Sorry. No, but look, two years ago, two years ago, I mean, or yeah, two years ago, Cooper was at the Team USA scrimmages and playing great.

Tim wrote a big story about it the other day. I was there at the time. Like, he's had an incredible run. He was going to be the number one pick for a whole year. Like, yeah. I mean, I guess that was what I was trying to ask you. Like, do we think, do we think that if, let's say they finished, they get the 12th pick in May, right? Like, do we think Nico is gone in May and that that's the main reason why there was this attempt to try to, because like, on its face, it doesn't make a lot of sense to fire him right now.

Well, I don't think it made a sense to fire him in May either because he still hadn't seen the team that he put together. I mean, like, I'm going to say something. Here's a thing. You can't. But he still has this. That's my point. he still has seen the team that he put together. Well, but it became a point where their literal, their business, their brand,

their team was suffering. But the brand, but the brand was like that in May. I'm not saying, I'm not saying it was the wrong time to do it to be clear. And the PR got worse and worse and worse. And like you can say, well, in hindsight, no, in hindsight, Luca led the league and scored an average damn near a triple double and took you to the finals months before you made the trade. You don't get benefit of the doubt when you,

make that type of deal. There was some hope that the arrival of Cooper Flag would kind of let everyone take a breath, refresh the narrative. It didn't happen. They didn't do anything. Danger Russell is not a solution. There's still this crazy top heavy roster that in a world with analytics just doesn't make any kind of sense. They're god awful offensively. And the weight of the angst was weighing on everybody. And look, Cooper. Like when he was asked about it after the washing loss, he pretended like you didn't hear the chance and he wasn't going to. But dude, it's not fair to this kid to start his career with this black cloud hanging over the organization. And now the black cloud is gone.

Look, there's a lot of work to do, a lot of questions to ask, a lot of things to fix, a whole plan to put in place. But the fan base can at least, you got rid of Nico. unfortunately, he'll never be forgiven for the Luca trade. Luke is never coming back. But you can turn the page and, okay, let's get the super flag era started. And that's got to be the priority. Well, here's the thing. Look, at the bottom line, regardless of whether or not you believe Luca

Dodgit should have been traded, he botched the execution of the trade. The process was worse than the trade, and the trade was as bad as you could have. Okay. And then the sale. selling it. Now, he was trying to sell iced Eskimos, so I'm not saying it was easy, but he destroyed the sale. The moment the trade was made, what did he do? Defense wins championship. No, no, no, no, no. That's not, that's not the answer. The answer is I talked to him. No. Yes, that's the answer. The answer is he made the trade and he immediately

called McBan. He immediately called McBan to try to sell why he made the trade. Here's an idea. Here's an idea. If you, either way, he talked to you immediately, okay? No. Everybody who makes a trade should talk to me immediately. If you, if you make a trade and the first thing you decide you need to do is immediately explain why you made the trade because you have to defend yourself, you might want to sit there and think and go, you know, I just don't know if this is the right idea. I mean, frankly,

if I need to immediately start spinning like Sonic the hedge-on. Last thing I really want to say about Nico, because he's fired, it was probably overdue, like he's going to be infamous forever, he'll never work in the NBA again. The one thing I will say is when Nico's ego became a top priority for this franchise,

everything fell apart. Now, to me, at this point moving forward, again, he's gone. The fans got rid of them. Adios Nico. How do you build around the 18-year-old mega talent that was gifted by the basketball gods or whatever conspiracy theory you want? It was gifted to you. When, in successfully building around Luca, you gave up control your first round picks from 27 to 30.

More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay, Nico Harrison has been fired. Got it. Now what? So, Bontemps, beginning of the, it was, I don't know if it was the beginning of the summer or midsummer after the Mavericks acquired Cooper Flagg. You came on here with a take. Now, I don't know if it was as hot of a take as McMahon saying that Nico was about to get fired. I got to tell you, I was at the Clipper game on Monday night.

And there was a whole bunch of agents there because it's Los Angeles. agents and scouts and people They were there. They were really there to see Brian McMahon. We know that. There was a receiving line. They were like. After they saw the terms of his recent experience.

They were like, they were like, is Nico seriously about to get fired? And I was like, listen, McMahon said what McMahon said. You know, he didn't say it flippantly. I don't, I don't guess on things like that again. I didn't know the time, but I knew it was trouble.

Okay. Okay. So, but that was your take over the weekend. Bond Temps had a take over the summer, which was he believed that the Mavericks should seriously consider trading Anthony Davis. Not seriously consider. They should have traded Anthony Davis this summer. I was trying to hedge. There's no hedging. They should have traded them this summer and they should trade him now. And here's the reason it was never going to happen when you said it. I'm not going to say a ridiculous take, but Nika was never trading Anthony Davis. for obvious reasons. Miko's wrong.

So now let's just discuss that idea on its merit. And I will tell you this. I do believe pretty firmly, very firmly, that this is going to be a topic of at least discussion with Patrick Dumont. And for the time being, his interim co-GMs, Michael Finley and Matt Ricardy, and likely with whoever he talks about the job with on a permanent base. I think Dennis Lindsay will be one of those.

You know, we can throw out other names, Monty McNair's, and Missoujiu, Jiri's, Calvin Booz, Bob Mai, whatever. I'm going to throw out a name. Who? I'm going to throw out Trent Redden, General Manager. General Manager, the L.A. Clippers, who is from Dallas, as long as you're throwing out names. Well, Cubans throwing out the name of Dennis Lindsay behind the scenes.

I think all those... Well, Cuban has a bigger voice than I do. By the way, what is Mark Cuban's voice? Let's focus on Anthony Davidson. We'll get to that. It went from zero to something. Exactly what something is. I'm not sure.

He's no longer the world's richest mascot only. Proprietor. I'll say this. He walked off the floor with Patrick DeMont after that lost the Milwaukee Bucks Monday night. I noticed that. The idea of trading Anthony Davis, your three to four year window to contend for a championship

that Wendowellon, that Niko promised, poof, forget about it. Cooper flags 18. Do you need to take a step back to hope to build around them? there are worse ideas when you have this year's first round pick and not your own until 2031. I think there's some merit to that. More than some merit, it's the only logical and frankly prudent path this team should take. Like they have to prioritize Cooper Flagg.

That frankly means they have to prioritize being as bad as they possibly can be this season and continue to just let Cooper have the ball, continue to develop his game. like we saw in this Bucks Mavs game on Monday, one of several incredible games. I had the pleasure sitting on my couch and watching Monday night. He's going to be a special player. They need to keep building around him. The top of this draft has several potentially special players in it.

They need to maximize their chances of getting one of those players and getting lucky in the draft again, which they can. And by the way, every day that goes by, you get closer to the end of Anthony Davis's contract. He's got a player option in the 27-28 season. he's already in his early to mid-30s. He already has a bunch of injury issues. He's already making a lot of money. So he is a very good player still.

They're not going to get Luca Donchitz back for him, but they can get a bunch of stuff for him when they don't have their draft picks for the next several years. And here's something else. They should trade Kyrie Irving too this season. Hold on. Well, hold on. Especially if Kyrie Irving gets back on the court. Now, if you want to tell me that Kyrie doesn't play and you don't,

You can't see where, no, don't, don't do that. Kyrie Irving is in his early, again, early to mid-30s. He's got two years left on his deal. He's a small guard. He is not anywhere near Cooper Flagg's timeline. Now, again, if he hasn't played yet and you're not getting anything for him in a trade, okay, fine. You could trade him potentially this summer.

But the Mavericks have those two guys that they can use to get assets that are forward-looking that can set them up to get. to get a high draft pick this year and then pivot going forward. And frankly, a lot of the rest of the guys on the team, whether it's Daniel Gafford, PJ Washington, Derek lively, Max Christie, like down the list, they're all pretty young guys that are either in their prime or before it. And I think all those guys can fit pretty decent with Cooper going forward. So I don't think you need to sell the whole team off.

But AD and Kyrie are both late in their primes or beyond it, make a ton of money. and I think their value is just going to go down by the day. So I think if you're Dennis Lindsay or Trent Redden or Matt Ricardy and Michael Finley, whoever's running the Mavs between now and the trade deadline after they make a decision on what they're going to do, that's the only question you should be asking is what's the future with Anthony Davis, what's the future with Kyrie Irving, and what should we do? Jeez, Wendy, how many times did you crank up that thing in Bond Tim's back, million miles an hour?

Holy moly. He's fired up about this one. I am fired up about it. I'm just going to say that there are going to be people who are going to say, and I think rationally, how can you possibly do that without seeing Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving and just giving it at least a look? Because, you know, if you begin a rebuild, well, if you begin to rebuild, you don't know where it ends. And so those are two guys you have on the roster. And it's not like you may not see those guys for a year. You could see those guys in a couple of months.

and couldn't you wait until the summer before making that decision before you actually see what those guys have? You know, there's a number of teams are going to tank. I don't know. I mean, you have to really hard tank if you want one of those top picks. Well, first of all, you don't actually because if you get anywhere in the top eight to ten, you have a really good chance of jumping up in the lottery. The MAFs just jumped up from 11.

We've seen teams jump up from anywhere from eight on every year. I didn't say it was a strategy, but it's, it's, proven to be the case. Like the lottery, if you're in the top 10, 11 spots, is extraordinarily wide open now. It's not like you used to be where it was basically you had to be in the top five. Also, newsflash, Dallas isn't good. The Western Conference is very difficult. It's not going to be that hard for the Mavs to be somewhere down there in the top eight in the draft lottery. I think, frankly, that's where they're headed. Seeing what you've got, look, what they're doing is they're down here and they're looking up in this deep hole before they can even see

what they've got if that happens. Now, facts. Kyrie Irving is not on the verge of returning. He's making great progress. He's going to continue working to get healthy. Once Kyrie Irving gets healthy, there will be, and perhaps leading up to it, but there will be discussions. There will be discussions with Kyrie, you know, with his stepmom slash agent, Shetella Riley Irving. You know, with his medical staff, the Mavericks medical staff, the front office, Patrick DeMont, what is in everybody's best interest? And they might be aligned. The best interest for Kyrie and the franchise might be, hey, let's rest the rest of the season and make sure when you're back next year, it's truly 100%. Maybe that's not.

That's the Kevin Durant. When Durant was coming back from the Achilles, you know, it was like, okay, we're going to take a hard reset to the Nets. And they didn't, I mean, you know, they had the pandemic, but they were like, nope, we're going to give you the full time. That would be like that kind of move. Maybe, maybe that's, you know, we'll see. But those are discussions that will be had the appropriate times, right? And obviously part of him sitting the rest of the season would be this is one swing they're going to have to pay another potentially high lottery pick with Cooper flag. And it's the only swing they're going to have to be able to do that, barring, getting another one via trade.

Now, the other thing you've got to factor in here, you're trying to rebuild a relationship with a fan base that feels backstabbed and betrayed. Now, the love for Kyrie is not quite the same as homegrown. Thought you'd have him from start to end, Luca, but man, Kyrie is beloved in Dallas as well. If you're going to trade Kyrie, it has to be, I think you've got to work with him and put him somewhere where he's happy. And I'm not saying you just blindside AD. This is a high bar for a midseason trade when the guys come up. Well, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think mid-season, I think AD's the mid-season discussion. I think Kyrie, the mid-season discussion with him is whether he's coming back this year,

not whether he'll be in a trade. I guess that's my point here. And I'm not saying you just screw AD forgetting. It's November 11th. I'm not disagree with anything you're saying. I mean, it's just, it's November 11th. I mean, wow. And they fired their general manager, you know?

I know. I know. I get it. I understand why they did it. The drastic changes have happened and are ahead. Man. Well, here's what I would say about, here's what I would say about your initial question, Brian. If you are going to hang on to Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis, it's because you have to believe the Mavericks have a real chance to be a championship contending team in the window Nika Harrison was talking about. There's absolutely no chance that's happening.

There's none. They're nowhere near the thunder. They're nowhere near the Nuggets. They're nowhere near the Rockets. They're nowhere near the Spurs just to begin with. They're nowhere near the Lakers. that's immediately five teams. They're nowhere near the wolves. So there's not a path to them being good enough to justify hanging on to those guys. And again, every day Anthony Davis is on the team, his value goes down. Now, doesn't mean you trade him today. You can sound the market out and see. But the NBA is currently wide open outside of the thunder. The Eastern Conference, there's a cavernous hole atop the conference right now. You got all kinds of issues with all sorts of teams. We talked about Detroit. having a chance the other day.

If you have a player like Anthony Davis, there is an opportunity to cash him in and get a bunch of stuff back and pivot this thing forward around Cooper Flag. And as for the Kyrie discussion, I understand where you're coming from, McMahon, and I respect it. However, whoever takes over this team, whether it's Dennis Lindsay or Trent Redden or name the imaginary GM who steps in to run the team once they decide what they're going to do,

you cannot worry about the perception of the fans with the team going forward. What you have to do is say what's been done has been done. We have to move on from the Luca Donchitz trade. We have Cooper Flagg. He's going to be a foundational franchise level player. And we have to maximize Cooper Flagg's career. And the way to do that is to get what you can for those two guys between now and this summer and going to next season with this team fully oriented around Cooper Flag,

whoever they draft in this year's draft, and what the roster looks like to maximize those two guys next year and moving forward. And that has to be the way you sell it. How do you think the fan base, which is, you know, wiping the blood off of its fangs right now, how do you think this fan base would react to being sold, even if it's an artful sale? It wouldn't be hard to be more artful than Nico. How do you think they'd react to being sold that we're going to kick off a full-scale rebuild that we're going to trade the two franchise cornerstones?

They're not the franchise cornerstones. But they are. No, they're not. But they are. They're not. They're both signed to a gigantic contract. They just signed Kyrie 15 minutes ago. There is one franchise cornerstone in Dallas.

That's the 18-year-old guy who went at Janus at the end of the game yesterday. I'm asking McMahon what he thinks the fans would do if they were immediately trying. to be sold on a full-scale rebuild. Bontemps is loud. He's obnoxious. He's irritating. He's not wrong. He's not wrong.

The priority has to be Cooper Flack. Now, I disagree with him about the need for Kyrie Irvin because I think there's a way for Kyrie to sit out and you don't have your pick in 27, 28, 29, 30 anyway. But I think they've got to restock some of those picks. I think you've got to at least explore the market for AD. And here's the thing. You guys have been around this league a long time. I wrote a whole book about like the Luca thing and the pressure on a franchise when you get a prodigy. And they ended up surprise ending with that. They traded him because Niko wanted to, not because he forced his way out.

But dude, if you fumble this thing with Cooper, there's already franchises thinking, hmm, seven years from now, I wonder if he'd like to come play here. And so you got to build it around him. You got to got to put him in a situation to succeed long term. There's a lot of work to do and some handcuffs in place. Well, I'll tell you what, if you're going to interview for the job, which I'm sure they will have interviews in the near future, the answer to that question is going to be extremely important. And I will say this, a topic that I think is going to be featured regularly on this podcast as this season goes along is whether there is going to be, I don't know how big the group would be. Maybe it's five teams, maybe it's seven teams. But there's going to be some teams that get

into December and January and realize that the prospects of them going in positioning for this draft are better than the prospects of finishing this season. That's going to be a tipping point. I don't know if three teams will plunge or five teams will plunge or whatever. But there is something to be said while I think this is going to be a tough sale, there's something to be said for being a first mover. And maybe that's something that they have to consider. It's going to be something that more teams are going to consider. The Mavericks just seem like they might have it on their plate a little earlier than anybody expected. But they were in the 2024 finals, and you're telling your fans, get ready for a multi-year rebuild.

You told your fans that when you made the Luca Donch trade. That's the original sin here. This is all collateral damage from that. them. They told them championship within three years. And that's why, and that's, and that's, and that's why NICO Harrison was fired. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. It's kind of unfortunate that, um, the Nico thing happened, uh, when it did. I'm sure Nico feels that way. But Monday night was one of the great regular season nights, um, in, in the

modern era of NBA. There was like 15 shots in, in the last 10 seconds of games or overtimes that, um, we're going to win or tie games. And we saw, you know, Desmond Bain toss one in at the buzzer to game winner. We saw Dennis Jenkins, a two-way guy from the Pistons, force overtime with a three-pointer right at the buzzer. And in Miami. In Miami, how often do we see a lob, you know, with less than a second, a lob go in to, you know, is a forced overtime or tie game. It happens maybe once every couple of years.

And the heat pulled it off. throwing a lob to Andrew Wiggins to beat the Cavs. Wiggins was opened by at least 10 feet on all sides. In fact, the closest thing to him when he jumped for that lob with four tenths left was probably the basket standard. And so that was a wretched loss for the Cavs, who were lucky, as you mentioned, McMahon, to be there because Donovan Mitchell hit a 1 in 10 shot, a heaving three-pointer.

Unbelievable shot over, I forgot who, but somebody had a great contest in the corner. By the way, it was the Cavs 65th three-point shot of the night, which set their franchise record by five. Now, I realize it was an overtime game, but they beat their franchise record by five, which is another top. Kate Cunningham took that many by himself last night. Cade Cunningham took 45 shots. It's got 46 points on 45 shots. That's 1990s efficiency. That used to get you guaranteed all-star births, that kind of efficiency.

But more important, bond temps for the calves, and, you know, so we're recording this late afternoon on Tuesday. The calves didn't announce that Darius Garland was getting an MRI, but I highly suspect he got an MRI today. And what happened in that game, now Darius Garland was totally derailed the end of last season by a toe injury, turf toe, sprained toe, whatever we want to call it. He missed multiple playoff games, then had off-season surgery, just came back, played three games, and appeared to re-aggravate that left big toe.

You can call it the great toe if you want. I'm still old school. I call it big toe. It ain't that great right now. So the question really is, and a lot of the calves short and medium term hinges on the question that this MRI is going to show, which is, did he aggravate that toe?

or did he re-injure that toe? Because frankly, Bon Tamps, the Cavs have not been an exceptional team when Garland has not played this year. No, I mean, this I thought was an extremely concerning injury.

I don't know. Did you get a chance to see the play, McMahon? Did you see it today? I'm a little bit busy. No, you know, you've had a lot. That's why I was going to say.

So second quarter of the game, Garland is third game back. You know, he played okay in the second game. He's obviously working his way back into shape. Late in the second quarter, he drives into the paint, pretty innocuous play, and he bangs his left toe on the court. Like banged, there's nothing crazy.

Yeah. And on a drive, gets fouled, goes to the ground, immediately starts yelling, immediately starts grabbing at his foot, goes to the locker room, comes back, start of the second half, tries to play on it, lasts a few minutes, drives in the lane, jumps, lands, nothing really happened, and just stop running. Just stood there. Play went back in full. commits an intentional foul, leaves the court.

And I hope Darius Garland's fine. Hopefully we get an update that he just banged it. It was a little sore and he's back in a couple days. Like, that'd be great. But I thought it was really concerning the way that all played out. And the Cavs made a lot of decisions this summer aimed towards maximizing their playoff ceiling. They didn't retain tied Jerome, who really struggled in the second round.

They replaced him with Lonzo Ball, who is a much better, I think, playoff fit as a 3-and-D guy to play off of Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, and not need the ball. But that was a move that lowered Cleveland's regular season ceiling. And they did it while Darius Garland was coming off this toe surgery and was going to be out at the start of the year. And you have Max Struz on the shelf with a Jones fracture. It's unclear when he's going to be back. You have D'Andre Hunter, who's been in and out of the lineup with knee issues, which is not a new thing for him. Now, Jared Allen's got this finger issue, right?

And the Charred Allen is not having a good season. No. And he's playing through this finger issue. And it doesn't seem like it's going very well so far, right? The upshot of all of that is that you're putting a ton of stress and miles on Donovan Mitchell in November. And he took 16 threes in this game. Obviously, it's an overtime game.

It's a crazy game. A lot of flying around. 51% of Donovan shots this year have been three-pointers. This is not Cooper. This is not Duncan Robinson here. Yeah. No. Donovan Mitchell.

Dynamic off-frivol player in the league. Well, and I don't mind him shooting threes. He's a great shooter. It's more to me. It's just there's a very immense workload being put on him. And we all are big fans of Donovan Mitchell. He's a great player. But we've also seen the last couple of years when they've gotten to the playoffs.

He's been worn down and had muscle injuries in part because of the amount of, load he's had to carry for Cleveland during the season. Well, and it's also a lot easier to load up on them defensively when you don't have to worry about that second dynamic creator. I think the calves are 25th and 20, in the 20s, 22, 23rd and free throw rate this year. Yeah. Right. And it's it they just when, when they don't have Tide Jerome anymore and you don't have Garland,

it's, there's not a lot of off to dribble creation on the roster. and it's just, to me, that's the biggest concern. Obviously, the initial immediate big concern is how is Darius Carlin's health going forward and we'll find out in the coming hours and days what that looks like. The secondary concern to me is you're putting a ton of miles on Donovan Mitchell at the time of the year when you don't want to be doing that. When Garland has played and it's a small sample, it's like now 2.25 games or whatever, it's been better.

And they racked up like, you know, they're, they were 125, offensive rating or something. And you mentioned Jared Allen not having a great year and he's dealing with some stuff, but also who was he tethered to in the rotation last year? Darius Garland. He's tethered to Garland. So, you know, Garland's absence, it affects all their other core guy. I tell you.

Especially Allen and especially Donovan Mitchell. We talked in the pot a few days ago about DeAndre Hunter crossing over, Josh Giddy on that play. but in that game where they played the Bulls, the Cavs were out of rebounding position like every single time bound the touch of that game. They won the game because Donovan made some terrific plays and the Bulls didn't have an elite score

and Donovan just showed them that the calves do. The Cavs are rebounding the ball terribly. And, you know, rebounding is something that you can mitigate because it's a possession game more than just counting the rebounds. The calves aren't good enough right now to get their butts kicked on the rebounds. And in this game against Miami, for example, they got beat by 10 on the boards in a game that Bamatabio didn't play it.

Klua Ware had 20 rebounds. You know, D'Andre Hunter, who's had a very good year, but basically plays big positions for the calves, he played 36 minutes and he had four rebounds. So, but definitely a concern. The Garland thing is a, the entire Eastern Conference should be paying attention to the injury report that comes out with the calves with Garland, whether it comes out today or tomorrow.

because that could really affect the short to medium-term balance of power. So Victor Wimbayama had an awesome game on Monday, hit a couple of great threes down the fetch of that game, including an isolation stepback three that basically iced it. Right after a pull-up game time, three. That's right. After really not focusing on threes, he, I think he hit six of them. I got to see, I got to find this stat.

It was the first player to have at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five assists, five blocks, and five made threes in the game. And there's another combo. I think it might be 30 points where he's done it three times. Everybody else has done it once. I forget, I think it's a 30 point of that combo. I mean, the guy, you know, we've never seen anybody with this size, skill, defensive instincts. I mean, it's ridiculous.

But him hitting those threes, he technically hit him over Vukovic, but they might as well have been in Bontim's face. All right. having said that or as or is the kids do but can we take a look at stephan castle and what's going on there these are stephan castle's last three games all right 19 points 11 assists three steals 16 points 13 assists 14 points 13 assists two steals in the last three games he's got 37 assists and i'd like to point out the aaron fox has come back yeah The keys to the offense for the spurs remain in Stefan Castle's hands. He's not shooting the ball from distance great.

He remains a struggling three-point shooter. He's actually in these last – I'm looking at his last four games. He's two of, I think, like 17 on three. So still, but, you know, and I know they're going to bring back Fox slowly, although they're playing Fox a lot of minutes. But Bon Temp's, Stefan Castle, is continuing to show that the spurs have really got something there. Yeah, and that's what Dylan Harper

not even playing, right? And this goes back to the very interesting question that's going to be going on there all season, which is the fit of De Aaron Fox and Stavon Castle and when Dylan Harper gets back and how they all fit around Victor and with Devin Vassell and the other guys they have and sort of what the future of the team is.

Because I would say, for as good a start as they've had, it is still a very incomplete roster, and it's not the finished product of what their ultimate championship contending team is going to look like, which is why it's so exciting. Like, they've got all this young talent. They're off to a great start.

Victor has been superhuman so far. But it is going to be interesting to see what those final chess moves that they make. Because I think we'd all agree that they're still, they've still got a lot of moves left to make before they've exhausted their assets. And before I think they would say, we know exactly the kind of team we want to have around Victor and the pieces we want to have around them. And the way Stefan Castle is playing, I mean, he's, taken a massive step, and it's been awesome to see. And it's, I mean, they look like a team that's had

the first, fourth, and second picks in the draft the last three years on top of the fact that they've got all these other guys. He turned 21 10 days ago. He's the youngest player in NBA history, Jackson says, to have three consecutive games of 10 plus assists. And the Spurs don't have to figure out what their finishing pieces are this year, but they're going to be a playoff team this year. They're going to get that experience. They're going to get that evaluation opportunity. and they know without a shadow of a doubt that they've got some absolute long-term foundation pieces. Earlier, we talked a lot about what can the Mavericks do around Cooper Flagg?

Do you pivot into a total rebuild mode around him? Listen, the Spurs Stunk in Wembe's rookie year. You know what the reward for that was? Number four overall pick and a guy named Stefan Castle. By the way, Spurs history, Jackson corrects me. I didn't read it properly. Spurs history, not NBA history. Yeah, okay, fine.

It's probably in the MAS best interest to cash in on their one opportunity to pair Cooper flag with a potential mid-to-high lottery pick because you're seeing right now in San Antonio, they've got two young dudes to build around, probably three with Dylan Harper. And by the way, you can look to Houston. Oh, wow. I'm in Thompson, fourth overall pick. Now, Alp. Shungu was mid-first round, but they've got a couple of young kids. pillars, you know, just to win a state championship in the future around these parks is going to be

tough. And the Maverick's got a lot of work to put Cooper flag in that kind of position. What about to win a Red River showdown? Listen, I don't know that too many people are going to be able to cross the old Red River and get wins for a while. Having those three teams within four hours of you is, to your point, only highlighting the challenges that are faced in doubt. Can I also highlight the challenge is just a little bit more. Maybe this has been a good day for the Mavericks. I'm known, or for the Mavericks fans, rather I should say. They don't like me a whole lot.

So let me rub a little. Let me rub a little salt in their wounds. 27, that's owed to the Charlotte Hornets. 28? Oh, that's a swap. Oh, the Thunder had those swap rights. Damn, they're already really good. That's going to be not a great pick.

29, who's got that pick now, bounce around one to? Damn, that's the Houston Rockets who have that pick. 30. Hey, they got the Lakers 29 pick. They got it for Luca. 2030, swap rights. Who's got that? Daggumice of San Antonio Spurs. Your closest geographical rivals who are already loaded up are going to benefit from the

Mavs downfall in 28, 29, and 30 unless you can quick pivot around Cooper flag and get that thing back and call it again. That is not what you want to hear if you're a Mavs fan. I will say, I don't want to go back to the Anthony Davis trade question, but it is relevant that the only pick that the Maverous control that's theirs between 26 and 31 is this year. What happens to be a extremely loaded draft? They do have their own 31, but that's, you know, you better be out of the rebuild mode by then.

Or you, you know, you get bigger problems. So Wednesday night, Um, uh, Bontemps, are you going down to the garden? I will be at the garden. So we have. The New York, the New York Madison Square Garden, to be clear. Right. Not the TD Garden. That's right.

Um, so the Orlando Magic are in town for that game. And the Magic have not exactly been a team that has gotten a lot of positive attention early on. Having said that, with Desmond Bain hitting the game winner, it was an unfortunate call of that game winner, but it was still an incredible game winner. Did you see that call? I'm not even sure. I did. I did. I did.

Another completely insane, by the way, end of the game. We mentioned earlier how there was the All-Upt to Andrew Wiggins. There was another Ale Up that was successful with Jeremy Grant that was an and-one on where Paolo fouled him on the same play. It was crazy. There was a brutal end to the game for the Blazers. It's two days old by the time people hear this, but the Blazers had an embarrassing turnover. Palo just made a great steal. Okay.

Anyway, I want to point out that the magic. are four and two over their last six games and have been in the top 10 in offense, which was not the case before, and the top 10 in defense. This is getting closer to the team that they were envisioning at the start of the season. It is a very good litmus test to face a Knicks team that's 6 and 0 at the garden and has been really good on offense. You're going to theoretically need a lot of points to beat Mike Brown's team there. But Orlando has gotten its footing a little bit.

should be pointed out, Bontems. A little bit. Let's see. Let's see how this game on Wednesday goes. I mean, they beat Charlotte and Washington to start that stretch. They did everything they could to blow this game against Portland. They got beat by a banged up pox team the other day. You know, I would say it's, they've got, they've pulled out a couple wins and it's a good start turning things around.

But I do think this game against the Knicks who are playing very well, playing a, a bit of a reeling Memphis team Tuesday night. It should be set at home. We'll see if John Morant can have a good game. We'll know by the time this pod comes out how he looked. But I think if Orlando goes into New York and plays well and beats the Knicks, then I think we could say, especially with the way the Knicks will lane offense, then I think we could say, all right, the magic have made some real forward progress from where it looked a couple weeks ago and they were one in four and off to a pretty brutal start. USWB analysis at its finest. I'm not even trying to watch. I mean, I watched the game

last late. They tried every way they could to lose the game to Portland. I'm like, you know, they're baby steps, I would say. Portland has had some moments early on this season, playing super fast. Any Avia is making a early bid to be considered for an All-Star. So we'll maybe talk about them more, but they got an East Coast road trip. All right. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontems. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you for watching and listening to Who Collected. We'll talk to you at the end of the week. Adios amigos.