Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Hall Of Famer Vince Carter On His Career & Incredible Longevity

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Bobby Marks and NBA Hall of Famer Vince Carter to talk Vince’s career ahead of the Nets retiring his jersey this weekend. The crew talks everything from his journey to the Nets, potentially saving the franchise, becoming a role model in the NBA, advice for playing in your 40’s and much more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome with the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing for me on Tuesday afternoon over here in Europe, which we'll talk about later.

I'm over here to see the Pacers and Spurs play this week. Joining us from Naples, Florida is our front office insider. He's really just our insider, Bobby Marks. Hey, guys. How are you? So, Bobby, we have you on today to talk NBA as usual. We will get to that. But really, the main reason you're here is because.

of our special guest joining us on the podcast who's got you know as far as non-playing goes this is a pretty big week for mr vince card who's joining us from Atlanta where he's doing tn t work before going to new york later this week so vince you are for the second time this season having your number retired this week the brooklyn nets but the new jersey nets really the new jersey nets are retiring number 15 so first off congratulations thank you and i got to say this is what's going on this week in Vince Carter's life. There's a documentary being released on his time with the Nets. There's a premiere, isn't there? Isn't there like a former? Yeah, the premier is on the 23rd. The Empire State Building is lighting up in New Jersey Nets colors, right, Bobby?

It's going red, white, blue. I love those. I love those colors. Yeah, red, white and blue, New Jersey Nets colors. And you have an event at the Empire State Building, Mr. Carter. Yes. Your number is being retired on Saturday night against the Miami Heat. And then Sunday, the Buffalo Bills, who you recently became a part owner of, are playing in the AFC championship game in Kansas City. In Kansas City. And it's my birthday.

My gosh. And it's your birthday. Also the 26 as well. Oh, but happy birthday early. By the way, also your bobblehead night on Saturday. Yeah. Yes. I mean, what else can we get in, Bobby?

I mean, geez. It's a lot going on. It's a lot going on. on. And then let me add to that. After all of that's done, it's time to unwind and get back into studio mode because that Tuesday, I'll be back in studio, uh, calling some games. So doing what I do. Amazing. Amazing. Well, first off, congratulations on all that. And, um, like, the reason we got Bobby here is because for was it, how many years, Bobby, 20? Well, we traded for Vince, well, we, well, the net's traded for Vince in 2004. Um, so it's been, uh, it was, we had the 20 year anniversary back in, uh,

early mid-December, I think, when that trade happened here. It feels like it was just the other day when we traded for Vince from Toronto. And yeah, Wendy had texted me this morning and he said, like, hey, you have any thoughts with Vince coming on? And I like sent him like a 500-word article. I had written when Vince got into the Hall of Fame here, just kind of my thoughts on. And we're certainly going to talk about it as far as when we made the trade to get Vince and kind of his impact. And I will say this on record.

And Jason, Kid did wonders for our organization. Certainly when we got Jason traded in 2001, we go to NBA finals. But getting Vince in that trade, to this day, I still say save the franchise. And why I say that is that we were in a dark time. like we had just gone we had just lost to Detroit in seven games that Pistons team I always tease Chauncy I said if you didn't have that shot in game five to beat us in triple over it's a big shot we beat them in triple overtime but that that game like took the life out of us um we would have I don't know maybe things would have been a little bit different but the team was in disarray

uh Jason was out he had micro fracture surgery before the start he literally played the whole year with like one leg uh carry kills had been traded to the clipper for, I don't know, future second. Kenyon was traded to Denver. Denver. The decision was made. I remember being in Las Vegas when Kenyon Martin showed up to a Nuggets summer league game.

That was back when not all free agency got done on June 30th, Vince. It was like July 7th or 8th. And like that night, it was because the Nets were agreeing to send Kenyon Martin still still very much in his prime. Basically for draft picks, right? Bobby, it was like, it was like a, Yeah. Oh, I remember. Listen, the decision was made. The decision was made in a, in New York City. I still remember the meeting myself, Rod Thorne, Lawrence Frank, Ed Stefanski, and went over to New York and met with a group of Wall Street investors who were thinking about buying the team to join forces with Bruce Ratner. And I remember them giving a presentation. This is when analytics were starting to come in. And basically, in no offense to Jerome Williams, the junkyard, dog basically compared jy d compared kenyon to Vince to Jerome Williams as far as what his production

was and what his value was and I think his value was like a three million dollar player and we walked out of there and I said I don't think we're going to be able to sign Mr. Martin here and and that certainly changed the the course of the of the franchise so Vince I was the day I don't know if you remember this but you got traded to New Jersey and I actually was at the where you came and you sat on the bench for a game in the suit, I assume. Right. And they introduced you. And there was not that big of a crowd at the Brendan Byrne Arena, whatever it was called

at that time. But that was the beginning, and that was a huge moment. When you came to the Nets, it was a very pivotal moment in your career because you would ask for a trade away from the Raptors. And the Nets were on the decline. So that ended up being a really important moment. that, you know, when you paid that transition. Yeah, it was a strange moment for me how it happened.

I'll never forget we're in Indiana and had a brief conversation with Mr. Babcock. And he had said, rest and peace to Mr. Babcock, he said, no, all is quiet. Nothing's there. I go to take my nap, pregame nap, because I'm going over early like I normally do. I was injured within the killies. So I was going over the early, get all, get my work. in and to progress to hopefully get back on the court. And when I wake up, my phone was out of control, like with text message, people calling. And the first person that calls me is Gary Sussman.

That I finally talked to. I talked to Suss. And he's like welcoming to the team. And he was the head of the Nets PR and famously also the public address announcer. Yes. That's where VC3 came from. And did you see VC? To start from him. And I'm still Broggy. Wait. up trying to just process all this like wait what what just happened he literally two hours ago it was nothing there and i was like all right cool we you know get it let me go over and get work done and next thing i'm like okay what happens next and the one of the first people i talked to was jalen rose and and i'm like because i've never been traded before i said so what happens now the team's getting ready to go we're sitting in the hallway chatting because back in that time

as you you know guys would just sit in the hallway just chat and communicate and and have real conversation as opposed to, you know, how things are now. And so we're just sitting there, all the guys, you know, talking, Alvin Williams, I remember talking to him on the phone. But all the guys were just chatting and chatting, and they leave. And I'm just sitting in the hotel like, all right. But the cool thing about it is the team, the Raptors after the guy, I sat and watched it in the game in the hotel, the Raptors actually team bus comes back

and picks me up. I get on the bus and I fly back to Toronto with the Raptors team. Why? Because the Nets were playing the Raptors in Toronto. Oh, my gosh. Days later, which was, it was so awkward. So when I got there, I remember being, I don't know if it was you, Bobby or maybe Rod or someone telling me that, you know, don't come to the game, which was also awkward,

just watching it on TV that, like, the new team I'm playing for, the team. team I played for literally across the street and I'm here packing stuff in because I'm going to get on the on the plane with my new team to come to Jersey. So it was a very interesting couple of days for me. Well, I mean and kind of peeling back the layers from that, you know, we were, I don't know, 10 games below 500 at the time when we, we had made the trade and Jason was starting to, was close to coming back. And I remember how the setup was in our, old practice facility in East Rutherford was that Rod Thorne, our president, his office was up top and my office was below him, directly below him. And I remember whenever his secretary or Rod or his secretary would call for me to come up, if I ever came up and the door was shut, I knew we had something going, right?

Like I knew. So I walk up there to door shut. I walk in there and he says, hey, grab a notepad. Look at this for me. I think we have a chance to get Vince Carter. And I looked at him like, all right, for who? And he said, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Alonzo Morning, who had been out because he had the kidney transplant. And two of the first round picks we had gotten from Denver and the Kenyon Martin sign and trade. And usually I'll go down and I'll run the numbers and we'll lay it out. And I said, do it. Like, do it.

And we were able to, we were able to, yeah, and I don't even know if we even sat on it for a day, but we were able to get that deal done. And I remember when Vince, Vince came in into Teterboro Airport because it was so cold. And picking him up and taking him to get his physical. And you're right. He was, you know, out for a little bit.

And, um, it was, uh, it was a great, you know, certainly, you know,

going to the playoffs. We wanted to go to the playoffs that year. Back then it was best of five. Uh, we get into playoffs. The last game in a year, we beat the Celtics and we play Miami. Miami.

Miami. And, uh, with Shaq Miami. and Zoe, I think, had gotten back to Miami. He was on that team also, which was, and then we go to the, you know, we go to the playoffs for the next, I don't know, three or four years. Could never get past the heat. And then certainly LeBron and his early days with Cleveland in the conference semifinals.

But it was a terrific run. I think my biggest memory of Vince, and certainly besides going back to Toronto and hitting a game winning shot and all the dunk in Miami was, for me was the San Antonio. Tonyo game that Vince played in where at home yes Vince had it going like I think you would have went for 60 points that game and he had gotten teed up for something before and this is when Bruce Bowen was on the spurs yeah and you know Bruce was known for stepping you know the basically stepping under players when they were shooting three and Vince shot a three and he landed on him. And this was, you know, he's coming off, you know, Achilles, ankle, you know, and Vince won't, you know, went crazy, right? He won't. And so they, they throw him out of the game. Vince gets teed up, throw him out

the game. And after the game, man, so Rod Thorne and I would sit in a suite in a corner of the medallands. The two of us sat there for 10 years. Every home game, he, I sat in the front, he sat in the back. And after the game, he says to me, let's go. And we go down the back stairwell. And the stairwell, and the Sterewell leads us to the official's locker room. That's interesting design. And Rod is, remember, Rod used to be the head of the officials. Rod is banging on the, on the door, like for them, like, to come out. Right.

And I remember, and it's triggered me because, Brian, you had, you had Jimmy Capers on, I think, on a recent pod. And his dad was a referee observer. And I said to Jimmy Capers, I said, this is blank and bup, you know, I started cursing. I started cursing at him. Like this doesn't happen nowadays, right? Like this stuff. Nowadays, there's a security guard posted at the door.

Yeah. Yeah. And that prevents this sort of nonsense from you out of control front office type. So I'm yelling at him and he looks at me and he says, Bobby, I'll take rod. I ain't taking your shit tonight. And that was it. That was it. And I just walked down the hallway.

But that's one of the, you know, besides everything else that Vince has done. That's the game. that stands out as far as that San Antonio game. I'm going to add to that real quick before you go forward, Wendy, because with all of that going on there, I'm steaming, obviously, after the locker room, after going, getting injected in the locker room. I'm coming out after the game.

Bruce and I had some worse with him because I knew what he was doing. I knew what he was doing. And, you know, like Bobby said, I was having a night. So we kind of get into it. And I was literally out there waiting for them to come out of that locker room. And I remember Krista Chin and obviously everyone else security or whatever. Like, no, this is not a good idea, whatever. I was like, no, I need, he needs to hear what I got to say and then we can go from there.

Like that, it was that intense, obviously. I mean, this is not, the stories of Vince getting ejected and going after a guy in the back, Bobby. This wasn't what I thought I was going to get into with this Honorarium podcast. And I see Courtney Kirkland often. And he's the one guy that to this day, I still go up and shake his hand and give him a hug and say, thank you because he was the guy when it happened i got up and i started running towards him pretty much throw a punch for he was the guy who tackle me and saved me from doing something crazy so to this day so just to be clear because i've never heard this story so this is post game in the back

you're going for bruce bowen like to punch him you were you were planning oh during the game actually happened oh during the shot happening when the shot happened i land on him and he runs down i get up because I knew what he was doing, that's how I got ejected because I was running, I direct B-line to Bruce. Like it was one of those. It was the trigger. It was the trigger because we'd already gotten a technical for, you know,

back and forth. So that's why that happened. And then trying to calm myself down, being ejected after the game. Now, game's over. They got to go to the bus type thing. So, yeah. So I have listened to stories with my colleague,

Richard Jefferson, talk about how it's what it was like to play with Jason Kidd. When you got to Brooklyn, New Jersey, sorry, after all of that you'd gone through, the breakup in Toronto, we're not going to go over that old ground. And you got to play with Jason Kidd, Hall of Fame Point Card.

What was that situation like for you? And this is something I'm going to probably mention the retirement night, but I've mentioned it before. Playing against him or playing with him in All-Star games is one thing. but being a teammate is another thing. And I'll never forget the first game playing with Jay Kid,

him throwing a lob to me. And he threw the lob so darn high. And it kind of goes out of bound that, you know, Jay Kid was, didn't care, could care less about a turnover because he didn't get many of them. And his assist the turnover ratio was next level. But I remember he goes down the court and he looks at me. He's like, oh, wow.

He said, I just wanted to see how high I can throw it to see, you know, to see, measure where you're going to go. And I told him before, I was like, you throw it. I'm going to try. I'm never going to look at the ball like, ah, that's too high. I might not be able to get it. I was going to always try. So I think from that moment on, J.K.K.

coming back, the excitement, what could be him throwing that lob to test the waters, me saying, I'm going to, I'll go try if you throw it over the backboard. I'm going to try. I always feel like I can at least get a hand, fingertip on it or something to preserve the play. and we hit the ground running and I remember him having to yell at me and this is when I say yell, Jay didn't say much.

He showed by his play on the court and when he asked something to say, he said it so everybody's like, oh, shoot, shut up Jason's talking. He said to me once in, you know, I'm being hesitant, trying to fit in. He's like, that's not what we f***ing here for and the rest was history.

So I got a lot of backlash from Raptors fans because, oh, how come we didn't see this version? I'm like, okay, when I played in Toronto, I had to create on my own, which obviously I learned how to do. I'm now playing with one of the best point guards ever. And now I just have to do is the back end of that is score the basketball. Everything else was set up. So he made the game so easy for me. And once we hit our stride, once he said that to me, it was just playing go.

Because RJ always said, he's like, look, you're playing with Jason Kidd. when twin gets the rebound or when J. Kid gets the rebound, run. And RJ used to just take off running. And I was watching how easily he was getting easy basket. He's like, I can get 10 points just from running because J.K. It's going to throw the ball ahead. So if you look at the back half of my time there, it was a foot race on both wings to see hook out run.

I'm open. RJ's like, I'm open. It was just, it was that fun and that easy to play with Jay. Yeah. And you ended up really flourishing there. You know, there were people who thought maybe your best days were behind you. I don't know. There wasn't maybe, Bobby, was there robust trade offers for Vince?

I remember it taking a little while. No. I mean, I mean, we kind of just snuck in there. I mean, really, I think it was just, you know, the, I think the, appeal for Toronto to get some second round first round picks back I think was pretty desirable. But it's not like, you know, back then in 2004 is not like 2020. They didn't know you had 15 years left in you, Vince. They didn't know you had 15 years left.

There was no Twitter or social media to be let known that Vince Carter is available in trades, right? Like it was basically we did it the old fashioned way you call teams and see who's available. And if you call a team and it says, yeah, we're thinking of doing something. okay, this is what our best offer could be here. Unfortunately for us, you know, Toronto was going in a different direction that we were able to, we were able to get something done there. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

So, you know, I had a, I don't know how you feel, Vince, about your last moment in the NBA. I think it's kind of like a melancholy moment. In a way, people thought it was really cool. It was the night that the league shut down with COVID. I'll let you tell the story. you hit a three-pointer to like as the game ended and like everybody kind of realized this could be it I don't know what your memories are that night I certainly remember that but before you remember from it first I'll love to hear your version so what I remember about that was the league was shutting down

you remember um mark Cuban like saw his remember that night like yeah mark Cuban saw his phone like walked over and showed the refs like we're shutting down so Lloyd Pierce is your coach and like I don't it seems crazy to me in the moment that people were common coming to the realization that like the season could be over tonight. Like to me, I remember thinking, well, we're going to shut down for a few weeks here. But like, I guess it was understood. Like, this could be it for you. And so they put you out there and you hit this three, which was celebratory.

And it was like, people were like, well, if that was Vince Carter's last moment, that's great. And I was like, how could it be Vince Carter's last moment? I'm not ready in my mind to have this happen. What was your memory for you for that night? So, yes, we were playing the New York Knicks. And prior to that, we had a meeting with ownership and executives, everyone coming down, explaining what could happen if. So if there's a player who came up positive, the league would shut down for two weeks,

so on and so forth, and then they would resume if everything, and there weren't any other players that came up positive. So we're like, okay, cool, you know, this is new. We're like, yeah, cool, whatever. You know how that goes. Go play the game. and halftime is when they got the word about Rudy Gobert. And they were trying to rush halftime, well, us to finish the game.

So we got the game started. We're playing. And you could see everybody on their phone, not really watching the game. We don't know anything. We're learning. We just heard what we heard. We're still playing the game. So now comes the fourth quarter, Knicks are up.

And then it comes like last five minutes. And they're starting to chant. I'm on the event. They're starting to chant. I'm like, man, please, I can always go. back in two weeks or whatever in the league resumes. And about three minutes left in the game, they're still chanting. I'd already blocked it out.

Dwayne Dedman sat next to me. And he said, Vince, do you realize this might be your last game? This could possibly be your last game. I said, yeah, that's crazy. And as I sat there for like two minutes, I was like, damn, this made me in my last game. So now we're standing up and they're chaining again. They're pushing at a minute, about a minute and a half, L.P., Lloyd Pierce, looks over me like, I was like, all right, cool. I'll go in. I'll go in. And so I check in

everybody's cheering and it was a cool moment. And as I got to the table, I was like, damn, this might be my last game for real. So when I got in the game, I'll never forget the first thing Trey Youngson said, I'm going to throw you to lob. I said, hell no, you know how long I've been sitting on that bitch over there? I said, hell no. I'm 40 years old, buddy. Are you crazy? I'm 43 over here. Like, I need time to warm up. So I remember saying something to RJ Barrett about this and he's like, man, this might be a last. So we're all coming to the realization

and they're like, take the shot. I'll let you take the shot. Like the Knicks are saying, take the shot. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you know, I'm pride. Like, no, no, no, no. But like when I got the ball,

if you watch it, people are kind of backing off. So that is more pressure. It's like that open. It's like that open shot that you get sometimes you got to take the dribble. So in my mind, I'm like, I'm like, shoot this. it's the second quarter. Not like, you know, don't worry, but don't think of the fact that you've been sitting

there forever and this could be your last shot. So I kind of stepped into it, shot it, as if I was on fire. And it went in. That's why I did like this and said, thank you, thank you, because I'm like, all right, if I missed this shot, I'm going to run this ball down. I just want to see the ball go in. I think that's why I was at peace with my career ending that way more so than everyone else, which I'm very appreciative of because I can't imagine.

guys how miserable I would have been the following year my career over ended on a miss that they let me shoot and I didn't put the ball in with time and I had time to actually you know if I missed it hopefully they let me get the rebound or whatever but I made it and I was kind of at peace at that point so you so you went to the Hall of Fame last year and now you're having your number retired on all these places and you know being honored this way and um One of the things I've noticed, like especially about you and Tracy, you and Tracy McGrady are always linked because you're related. You know, you guys came in at the same time. And one of the things, you know, I had a great opportunity to work with both of you.

So I know you guys a little bit. And one of the things I've seen is that, you know, this generation of player, like a lot of them. And I mean like not even the guys who are rookies now. I'm not talking about like the Chet Holmgrens of the world, but the guys who have been in the league for a few years. Like they came up. you know, like it was, it was amazing to me as guys would come through the studio and they would come up and they would see T-Mack and they would treat him with such reverence. And I see the same thing with you. How was that to be kind of in the league with guys who had this reverence for you? Because you'd been in the league 20 years. The first couple, the first year, so the first time it had happened where there was guys that I'm that come in the games like, hey man, I'm a big fan.

had your poster on my wall when that was a kid. Like, and it's like, damn, was that a shot or is that? Yeah, like, now I'm going to talk on you, old man. Or is it, you know, showing appreciation. And obviously, that's the time I took it at first. And I had a hard time accepting that because it's like, man, this is weird. Like, I just never imagined. I just remember going from the youngest guy, now in the middle to close to the back end to, you know,

to the back end, one of the older. guys to the oldest guy. And once I got used to it, like maybe a year or two later, particularly my last two or three years, it was a badge of honor, particularly my last year, because I mean, I'm like, hey, I'm 43. I'm still able to play this game, compete, can still score when I need to when asked. And it was it was more of appreciation. I was able to accept it. But at first, I just, I struggle with that. And I don't, I can't. I really. I really don't know why, but as I got old, I'm like, you know, you should be proud of this. Like, you're probably their dad's age.

Like, like, Trey Young, I played against Trey's dad in college. We played against Texas Tech. When Darvindham broke the backboard, his dad was on that team against Carolina. Like, you know. That's amazing. Yeah, so it's just like accept that. Like, you're doing something that a lot of people can't do or doesn't want to do or doesn't get the opportunity to do. So leading into my last year, though it was tough for the 43-year-old guy to stay motivated to work out at the same time,

I was like, don't disrespect the game and don't work out. So I made sure I was ready to play and did all the work that I needed to do just to show, hey, 43-year-old can keep up with you young, 18, 19, 20-year-old, and I enjoyed it after a while. You brought up Carolina. So I'm going to ask you something that I talked to Carolina people about. And you just be 100% honest, please. So there is this concept that had Kobe Bryant gone to college, which it's moot because he didn't go to college, that he would have gone to Duke.

He had this connection with Coach Kay. And, you know, he was sort of seeing like somehow, you know, Rob Polinka, who was his agent, you know, he had a lot of Duke guys. But Kobe Bryant, I know, was not a Duke player. He was a North Carolina player. And go back to one of his first interviews, The one thing he said is if he was going to college, he wanted to go to Carolina.

Okay, I didn't remember that. He played to play against me because Kobe and I played AAU together. So he learned, he knew, you know, obviously who I was and how I played. And that was a barometer that he wanted. He said I wanted to go to Carolina to play against him every day. So the Duke thing started to come around later on. You know, I started hearing like, oh, I wanted to go to Duke. I'm like, there's an interview out there because of his.

high school coach who said he saw this high school player play left-handed because he broke his right arm. I broke my arm in the game, but I continue to play the game left-handed. Wait, I don't know this story. Stop. Maybe it's legendary. Bobby, do you know the story? No, I don't. I've never heard this story. Okay. We're going to have to stop. I need all the details. Start over and tell me this story, Tracy. I mean, I mean, Tracy. Vince, tell me this story. So we're playing in a turn, basketball turn in, I want to say Merrill Beach, South Carolina. And a kid, I'm going to dump, kids run up under me, I fall,

boom, hit the ground. And my wrist is nasty. That happened to LeBron. That was LeBron's worst ever injury. He got undercut in a game and broke his wrist. Same thing. That I fall, get up. I'm playing, so I try to shoot. I was like, I can't. But I always just... So you're looking down at your wrist and you see that your wrist is like broken? Like in pain. And every time I caught the ball and tried to bend it, I couldn't.

So I was past a little bit. Yeah, so then I go and I'm like, you know, so I was like, I could play, I'll play. I'll play the game. And I'll never forget, Antoine Jameson was in that tournament. Shaheen Holloway was there. Jermaine O'Neill was there, was on that team. He played for O'Clair, I think that was his high school, and B.J. Mackey and Irmo.

So those guys were guys in South Carolina, yeah, for sure. So they all played in this tournament. And but I played in the game and I would plan against the whole school and I'm shooting and scoring, driving, finishing left-handed. I'm having the dribble pick it up, shoot left-handed just because. And I guess Kobe's high school coach, I think, yeah, saw this, heard about it, something and goes back and tells Kobe and that was his fuel. You know, you know, it doesn't need much to fuel Kobe anyway. And that's where that came from. Because right after that tournament, I took my visit to Chapel Hill with a, with a, with,

with the arm sling and everything. Cast the whole night. That was my visit to Carolina. So we did, my family was already at the tournament in South Carolina. So we just kept on going. Yeah, yeah. That was it. So I'm glad you told a story because, like, I just, you know, I didn't know Kobe well,

but I knew Kobe. And I know Duke and I know Carolina. And Kobe, Kobe's Carol, Kobe is Jordan. He's not, you know, he's not one of these Duke guys. Come on. I'm so glad that you set the records. Yeah. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. But, I mean, I understand his admiration for Coach Kay. I mean, he's all right.

No, I mean, of course. That's not what it's about. Like that kind of coach or whatever, but, uh, I'm just kidding. But no,

I mean, but no, I'm just kidding. You won't hear any, you won't hear any objection over here. Yeah, so, so Bobby,

what was, how was life different when Vince became in that, uh, in New Jersey? Well, I think more people came the games. That's, I mean, I mean, you got to remember the metal lands.

Even when we, even when we got Jason in the trade in 2001, people weren't coming. Like we were having, I remember we played the then Seattle Supersonics on us. And we were like 10 and 3. This is in 2001 on a Saturday afternoon. We had 4,000 people for the game. So that's why when I said that, you know, you know, Vince, you know, saved the organization and stuff. It was a, you know, we had kind of, it was kind of a dead end. We were, because Bruce Ratner had bought the team with the intent of moving to Brooklyn.

The goal was to get to Brooklyn in like 2008. Yeah, he, he was a real estate guy who needed a team to use eminent domain because one of the things you can use eminent domain for is a sports arena. So he's like, all right, who's for sale? I can buy the nets. I'll buy the nets so I can put a sports arena here so I can build a real estate development. Is that summary? Is that a good summary? Yeah.

I mean, and that's that's the perfect summary, but the hard part was that the market eventually crashes and then we're, you know, we're in New Jersey for like, you know, for ever, not eight years, nine years and stuff. Well, real quick, Bobby, before you go any further, so when I get traded there, we're doing appearances in 04 and 05, some in in Jersey, but some in Brooklyn to starting to get to create the buzz there at that point. So this is 2005. We're starting to go over there. And at the time, we weren't accepted. Bobby, you recall this and you can continue, but we weren't accepted in Brooklyn. They were like, man, go back to Jersey.

They didn't want us there for. We're doing appearances like, yeah, the nets will come here. So they're like, oh, man, go back to Jersey. Like, it was like that. I was like, oh, this is crazy. This might not happen. Well, that. And then the, as Brian said, the eminent domain factor where they didn't want an arena there.

Like people were being displaced for a new arena go there. So it was that. It was like a really weird in between time as far as playing in New Jersey. Eyes on Brooklyn not getting there, eventually moving in 2012. I will say this, though, you know, the, the end comes, right? We, you know, Jason, and it's, I was, I was talking to the team about this yesterday because we were talking about Jimmy Butler and everything. And I said, like, you know, what Jimmy did is like no different like, you know, like people asked to be traded. I remember Jason has to be traded in, in, um, that 2007.

We didn't have social media then, right? Like it wasn't blown up and everything like that. And I always tease Richard about this because I said, and I use, I use Vince as an example. I go, hey, Richard, we traded Vince to his, you know, home, you know, we sent him back to Orlando. And I said, and we sent you to Milwaukee. And that was kind of the, you know, listen, once Jason got traded to Dallas in 2000. and eight, then that kind of became the end. You know, that team basically, you know, we tried to splinter it apart and, and everyone kind

of went their separate ways. But for that period of, as I said, for that period of four years, we had a really good team. The unfortunate thing was is that we lost to the Miami team that went on the winning NBA championship in 06. And then the San Antonio LeBron team that lost to, the Cleveland LeBron team that lost to San Antonio in the finals. It was a close six game series.

I covered the series. It was a close six games. Well, even the Miami series, just going back real quick, we won game one down now. We blew their doors off. And I remember it's, we come home one, one. And this is when marijuana testing was, you test positive. You test positive for marijuana. You're, you know, and you're a repeater.

You're done for like three games, right? And I remember getting ready for game three. And we're in our video. Shoot around. Shoot around in our video room. And we get noticed that Cliff Robinson, rest in peace, had gotten suspended for, for violating the, didn't he open like a marijuana business

after he retired? He did. He did. That was the end of that. We went up losing in, I think we lost in five games that series. But it was, listen,

it was, we did as much as we could, you know, to try to piece it together. And I think, you know, certainly without getting Vince in 04, we wouldn't have had,

you know, the success we had in those three to four years. That was, those were great years, though, because, you know, there was always a buzz, you know, even though the arena was junky, there was, like, always a buzz there. Like, Jay-Z started coming to games. That helped.

And, you know, like, Gary Sussman, the PA announcer, that's what I would always remember because he would, you know, call out the names. And then he would, and if Jason Kidd would have the assist, he had this classic call, he would say, you know, what, what did he used to, what did he used to, how did he used to phrase it for you, Vince, when you would score? He would say, you would say, Vince Carter. And then he would pause for a second, and he would go, From Jason, Kid! Yes, from Jason, yes, he did. Because he would always, you know, say when Jason had an assist. And he would say it was really, really fast.

And Suss brought like a unique, you know, way and excitement. And it went from not that many fans to get fans in there because we became a, I like factory. J-Kid just doing what he does, throwing the ball out, Like I said, RJ and I trying to see who can get down there first, and it got to where J-Kid throwing a ball up in the air. You're seeing RJ try to go and then be try to go for it or off the backboard or just J-Kid being J-Kid.

So it became a thing, and we started winning and more TV games. And now you look in the stands and there's more people there and there's more excitement. So it was cool to kind of see where it started and obviously where it ended. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Who do you like in today's game? Who do you like watching Vince? I like watching Shea. Shegild is one guy that I'm a fan of.

I love the way he plays. He can dictate. There's a lot of guys. I love Anthony Edwards, his game, the way he plays. I'm not a huge fan of now of him going away from the score that he is selling for the three. Because I think he has so much to offer, and he can still shoot the three,

but he can set it up by his ability to get to the basket whenever he wants. So those are just a couple of guys. I mean, there's a lot of guys. I enjoy watching the OKC Thunder's team play. I love watching Boston and where they come. I remember obviously those guys as young pups and what they're doing now.

So there's a lot of guys, but those two in particular, I'm enjoying watching. So we've got a 40-year-old in the league now with LeBron. And then in a couple of months, Chris Paul is going to turn 40. And we haven't had a 40-year-old in the league in a while. Udana's, right? Oh, Udana's, well.

Udana's, what was the other one? Okay, play. I get it, I get it. So, you know, listen, I'm not trying to get opposite Udana's. I mean, I'm on TV with him now, and I love it, by the way. I love working with Adonis. He's great. But, you know, by the time he had his 40th birthday, he had a small role on the heat.

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, we got two, four. 40-year-old starters. How about that? It's been a while since we had a 40-year-old starter. How hard is it? Now, you obviously were famous for morphing your game. And, like, in all honesty, I mean, this has been said a thousand times. It's not worth, you know, repeating. But, like, people should study your career and how you lengthen your career by becoming a different type of player and, you know, and not leading it to you. But what is it like to play in the NBA past your 40th birthday? Even when you're in phenomenal shape, like those two guys are and you were?

Um, what is it like? I honestly, I mean, it's a badger honor. I think when you hear, like I said earlier, when you hear younger guys saying they look up to you or you played against their fathers, then it's like, man, I'm old. But now it's like, but I'm still doing it. Like I played against your dad and now playing against the son and still doing it. But I think, you know, when you've done it so long, LeBron for 22 plus years, because I know he will shatter. that record coming up for sure. Because I'm asked all the time you think he'll do it.

Man, are you guys watching? Like this guy, he has taken care of his body. But I think at that point, once you hit 40, once you get past, oh, I'm 40. Like, I don't think we ever thought. And I'm going to say we meaning them as well, because you can tell how they play. They don't think, yeah, I'm 40.

I'm old. I mean, we throw it around in interviews. But when we're playing, it's just like, I'm still doing it. Now, you know your limitations. what you can. It can't do. But at the same time, LeBron is still taking off challenging people at the rim. I wasn't afraid. I just didn't do it often. You just knew what you could do. So for me, I just said, all right, I still love playing the game, like those two guys you mentioned. So how do I continue

to do that? How do I stay in this league longer? Well, I had to kind of continue to get my rest. I continued to put more work in, had to get there a little earlier, had to stay a little later, all this thing and work on other aspects. I'm not going to have the ball in my hand like those two guys are still doing. So how can I still make my worth in the league? Well, I better be a damn good shooter. I need to make sure when I shoot the ball, it's automatic. I understood the game.

So I'm a great ball mover, a great facilitator. I think, you know, I'm not a big plus minus guy for a lot of reasons. But, you know, my plus minus was good because I understood how to play the game. I could, you know, I could be another coach on the floor. I enjoyed that. So all the things that I still enjoyed about basketball, teaching, helping, playing, scoring, winning, obviously, just competition. I still love and was willing to do whatever. So that's why playing at 40 didn't feel weird until it was talked about. Yeah. And by the way, so there's only three guys in history to play in over 1,500 regular season games.

Bobby, I mean, Vince and LeBroner, too. Do you know who the third one is, Bobby? Oh. A little trivia corner. I don't know that. Dirk Novitsky. And Vince played 22 seasons, which is the record, right? That's the record. Vince, 22 is the number.

Yeah, yeah. So this is LeBron's 22nd seasons. He's going to tie you. But when you were 40, you played in 73 games. And I think, like, you were getting vote. Like, you didn't win, obviously, but you were like a vote-getter for six men of the year. When you were 42, you played in 76 games. Year last year,

you played in 60 games, and I don't know how many games you actually missed because the season obviously ended early because of COVID, but you played in almost every game. Yes. So, like... I'm going to tell you something to that. And I told Lloyd and I said,

look, this whole load management thing. So you know, the thing, that became a thing, which, you know, was particularly weird for me because I played in the 90s where, you know, you know, it's like you're missing a game because of that, you know, that's to where we are now. So I told Lloyd, I said, look, I get it if you don't want to play.

But don't sit me just because of load management because I knew how to take care of my body. I knew what needed to be done. So I get it. Organization protecting players from themselves sometimes. But at the same time, I was always taught the responsibility of taking care of your body because this is my job. And I think sometimes we forget that and it's gotten lost in trouble. translation over the past couple of years to where we are with load management. But I just, I told them if I'm not, if I'm hurt and I can't play, they don't play me.

But if I'm able to play, put me out there for whatever the amount of minutes you want to put me, but don't not play me just because you feel like, oh, your workload is up. Like, I don't have many years left. I'll worry about workload and all of that stuff later because that was the mentality back then. It's like, I'm fine. I'm fine. You know, Bobby, they had the organizations had to save us for ourselves.

When, you know, we're trying to go out there when we really need to sit, then, you know, up top, we're like, no. There's no, no, no, take the uniform, take the shoes, no. But now it's that you don't have to do that. It's like, guys are doing it for you. Well, and I think that's the hardest thing, too, Vince, is that, you know, when you go from, you go from Brooklyn, New Jersey to Orlando. Mm-hmm.

And then did you go to Dallas right from Orlando? was the next step phoenix oh phoenix you know your role evolved right your role changed right you weren't the guy that they were looking for to score 27 and 28 like you became particularly in phoenix yeah like i remember you you know in dallas you know like on those like hitting a game winning shot in the corner in the playoffs right like as far as being a sixth man accepting your role i and i think that i think that becomes a little bit of a challenge too certainly for players when they get you know when to get older to kind of change how they play as far as except to a different role coming off the bench and everything like that. And I always remember when you mentioned about taking care of your

body, I always remember, and this stands out for me the most, is one morning in Philadelphia, this is post-vince, this is when we had Joe Johnson on our roster. And Joe was known to take care of his body. And I remember being in the lobby and him rolling in at like, you know, I think I was having coffee at like 6.30 in the morning and I was with somebody and they said to me, oh, we're in trouble. Joe's rolling at 6.30. No, we weren't in trouble. Joe was coming back from hot yoga. Right. Like Joe, Joe knew how to take care of his body. Like, that's how he played long into this league. And I think it's, you know, certainly, I mean, I think it's a, you know, you weren't just hanging on, right? Like, you weren't just signing like a minimum and or a 10 day.

And like, you didn't just hang on to get, you know, another contract and get your, a years of service and everything like that. You had, you were still, you know, a contributing member in this league here. Yeah. And I want to say, you know, with that, and there's a lot of guys like a Joe Johnson, like LeBron, CP3, and there's a laundry list of guys where I'm just speaking specifically older guys. I had a laundry list. I had a list of 10, 12 things that I needed to do every day. And I tell people this and they kind of, they're like, what, what, how did you do it? How were you able to played 22 years and in all these things. I said, well, I stuck to the list. I had 12 things that I needed to do. And I always did those 12 things, whatever, you know, what they were.

I didn't say, oh, okay, today I don't feel like I'm just going to do 10 of them because eventually you start cutting off two more and two more. Then eventually you're just doing five or six of them. Then you're either injured or now you can't move or can't play. So there were things. I was my willingness to do what it took to stay in the league or to. to play a game or to be around or to be a contributor was the most important thing. So I had that list and I stuck to it. And I think that's the, you know,

some of the things on this list. Whether it was rest, sleep, getting up, stretching early. So I stretched before I went to bed and I stretched in the morning. That's where it started. Then I would get up, I would eat something so I have enough energy, I would get over. And then I had another stretching regimen

I would do with the trainer. I had to lift. Get my shots up. This is game day. Get my shots up for shoot-around. Little small. Then I did the lift. Then I would go home.

I would try to eat something. Take my nap. I had to make sure I made sure I took my nap so I can get an hour to two hours in between that window, depending on time. And then I would eat something, go to the arena. I always got there three and a half to four hours, well, three and a half hours early.

And I would usually see Kobe. You see Ray Allen. Those are some of the guys I would always see. And every arena that I will go into, when I'm working out, the dancers are still practicing. Yeah, yeah. Getting ready for the game. That's when I was in there because I wanted to get my shots in,

do all the things. You know, it takes a little while for the older guy to get going. And that was kind of my thing. Once I finished shooting, I would go in. Now I'll start by stretching treatment. If I needed treatment or whatever I do. needed to do. So those things were important to me that I had to do every time. If I skipped some of those, those, I wouldn't have been able to. There's a lot of stretching in there, Bobby. That's what

that's why. There's a lot of stretching. Heat packs, when cryo, the cryo chamber came around. That was the thing. I did cryo after shoot around. This is the back end when we started to have it. What's worse, the cryo chamber of the ice bath? I mean, what was? So I did. I did. cryo chamber. I only did ice bath for bruises. Well, early in my year, it was only ice bath. So I did that. So that was tough. I used to watch D. Brown and Doug Christie. D. Brown used to get in there. He's like, young fella. And Dale Curry. I played with Del. And he used to say, young fella, you should get in this day. We used to make fun. I'm like, man, that's, you guys, whatever. And I used to watch Doug Christie get in the cold tub to his neck every day. I'm like,

you're insane. And then as I got older, I'm like, ah, the cold. tub and it would revive my legs. And then that's what the cryo chamber started doing. So I did I started to leave the cold chamber and cryo became the thing just for I felt like young again. And then I would do cold tub just for bruising, deep sord and stuff like that. So that was kind of my routine. And then by the time the game started, there's sometimes, Wendy, I was still rushing, getting, you know. Your checklist. Yeah, stuff in and get done. but I had to do it and I was willing to do it still.

Bobby, he should have a class that he like overcharges like 10-year veterans to say Vince Carter's class for 10-year veterans on how to become a 20-year veteran. Yeah, once you hit 30, you have to enter. Yeah, yeah. I've gotten some conversations, some calls, some guys just asking and, you know, they hear these things. And the number one thing, you picked up on it. I said, stretching was the thing for me, you know, because we play the game like bulk is It's cool. You want to be strong, but you still need elongate. You need to have limber and feel

you don't want to be tight in this game, like running so much and cutting and stuff. So that was super important for me. And Del Curry gave me this many, many years ago. He's like, hey, take 10 minutes before you go to bed and stretch. And then when you wake up, take 10 minutes aside to just stretch and get, you know, and you want to be limber as possible. I was like, okay. And then now that I don't do it as much, I feel a difference. Yeah, I remember, I don't want to speak for LeBron because maybe he had a different mentality, but his LeBron's second year, Alan Henderson. Remember Alan Henderson?

He played in Indiana. He had a long NBA career. I remember Atlanta as well. Atlanta, yeah. He would do this band stretch work, and he was maniacal about it. He was probably in his 12th year or whatever. He was in his mid-30s. And I do think LeBron started stretching more, like after he was around Alan Henderson.

Now, LeBron might hear that and say, no, no, no, no. It wasn't Alan Henderson. It was this, right? But I watched Alan Henderson stretch, and then I noticed LeBron stretching more. And that was when LeBron was like 20. So I do think there's done. It's huge.

And you say that to young kids now. I have a young kid. And I'm like, yeah, stretch, stretch us. He's like, oh, my gosh, no, no, no. But it keeps you from getting hurt. And like you say, it's a lot of advantages to an athlete to stretch because of, you know, how much we move, run, stop, cut. you want it to be as loose and limber as possible.

And, you know, now that we're having this conversation, I'm going to start again. And hopefully the next time we talk, I'm like, you know what, I feel a difference. Because it's proof in the pudding. If you take one thing away from this stretch, boys, girls, men, women. Everyone. Implement that into every day. Thank you so much for your time. Congratulations on your honor.

Thank you. Enjoy this week. Yes. And, you know, we've worked many shows together. it's great to be doing something with you again. Enjoy your time of Turner. You're doing great. Thank you.

Bobby, Vince Carr, you did sign him to a contract extension. I don't know how that negotiation went. I think it was pretty easy. There was no, it was a different error back then. We didn't have the apron. We didn't have, I don't even know if he had to, like, I think the luxury tax was like dollar for dollar maybe. Do you remember I have it in front of me?

Do you remember how much it was? It was a four-year contract. He opted out. He opted out of his contract. probably no rules were broken. I think it was four years and 60 million. Four years in like 60 something million. I still remember the,

I still remember the press conference when we announced it and everything like that. I'll pull it out. I got it right here. You should have got 90. I know. I did ask. Guys are about to make 60 a year.

Five years, 80 million. Oh, five years 80. Okay. It was better. Yeah. He opted out. And I'm sure there was no talking before July 1st. I'm sure it was all on the up and up.

You know, it's crazy. Vince's salary was basically his first year salary is the equivalent of the non-tax mid-level exception for next year. How about that? So basically the average player salary. You were on a max, Vince, and it's now the average. Unbelievable. You should have played 30 years. Come on, Vince.

What's the matter? Hey, maybe I'll make a comeback. I'm not rolling it out. Thank you for your time. Enjoy this weekend. Take care. Thank you, man. Thank you.