Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - History May Tell Us What Comes Next For Clippers + Key Signings Updates In The West

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon to break down the latest on the fallout from the Clippers’ punishment following the NBA’s probe into their dealings with Kawhi. The guys talk about how some key league history indicates what may be to come, why LA got into this situation and what may have been known by Kawhi. Next, the guys tackle Amen Thompson’s extension with the Rockets before talking Ben Simmons signs with the Kings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Monday evening, almost midnight here in London, which I'll explain in a few minutes. Joining us from good old Dallas, Texas is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners? So, McMahon, it's Monday night. It's a holiday weekend. Not a lot of business has gotten done. As of now, we have no lawsuit or any reaction formally from the Clipper.

I have no information that one is coming, but nothing is, it's all been all quiet on the front. The clippers have not made any statement in days. I mean, they've made two pretty loud statements in the aftermath. The trade between the Raptors and the clippers for Kauai Leonard has not gone through. That's interesting. Well, again, this is. Monday night, we'll see what happens on Tuesday.

In talking to people, I think that trade's going to go through and I think it's going to go through as is. And I was scolded for implying, or maybe not implying, but wondering whether or not the terms could get traded. I'm getting that goal. We came from Southern California and not Canada. I'm not going to say, but I'm just going to say that, everybody you know people say in the NBA you've got to go but your word is important and so

they've agreed on this trade and I think they're going to go through with it as as constructed which to remind you coming to Toronto coming to the clippers is brandon ingram Grady Dick two unprotected first 2031 and 233 McMahon educated me on that last week had that wrong and a pick swap in 2028 in the clip's favor 28 I thought it was 27 was the big swap no I'm sorry I'm not I'm sure you're right I'm not debating I don't have in front of me I'm yielding to you on this one I believe it's I'm not 100% certain and I believe it's 27 which would mean basically the right to swap with okC's pick and so that they can swap that for toronto's basically the right to clipers almost certainly will end up with okay C's pick and so that they can swap that for toronto's basically would beat that math. Okay, that makes sense. All right, a couple of things on this one, McMahon. First off, in talking to some folks,

I think Steve Balmer largely, and I mean, I have not talked to all 29 other teams, but in talking to some influential people, I think Steve Balmer was getting the benefit of the doubt from his peer owners through this process. I know that there were some people who believed that he was, you know, especially the teams that were trying to get Kauai back in 2019 and heard out of Uncle Dennis's mouth, the, you know, the requests that came through here and the teams that were impacted by Kauai picking the clippers, they may not have felt that way. Including the Raptors, by the way. Correct.

The Raptors. I mean, look, Masai Ujiri was telling people in 2019 that Uncle Dennis was. doing this. And not that I didn't believe him, but when you, you know, I've heard some things happen when some teams lose free agents. And sometimes, and I'm not saying this is what happened, but sometimes teams take leave of their senses. I'm not going to give examples, but there's been a couple of situations where I've had some conversations where a team lost a star player where I was like, I put down the phone and I was like, they're on tilt. You know, the Dan Gilbert letter being the one thing that went public, but just trust me, there but others.

But it wasn't just coming from Toronto. Correct. You know, the Lakers had reason to feel a certain sort of way because he chose the cross-haul at the time team and not them. But it was certainly coming from the Lakers too. Yeah. And those were the three teams that were in the mix. And in my understanding with the Raptors at the time was it was, you know, their stance was based like, okay, we'll see how things shake out. Everything will come to the light at some point.

It did. So, but my point is, is I think Steve Balmer had support of his peers in this. Even though this was pretty severe accusations, and I'm not saying everybody again. I think people wanted to believe him, his peers. I'm not talking about the other GMs. I'm not talking about the agents. I'm not talking for other billionaires. Especially if they like him and they did.

So the word that it was said to me by a very influential person was that the other owners, some of the other owners were aghast when they read this report. That was the word that was used to me. aghast and regardless of what Steve says the support that he had is no longer there. I mean, it's a pretty damning report, not just that, hey, there were instances of Caps or convention, but like the detail in it, the, the audacity of just how blatant and flagrant a lot of this was. again, and then you factor in his history.

And so it's hard not to read the report. And again, it wasn't like, well, dang, there was one instance of the cap circumvention. But, you know, it was this fraud company. You know, no, there was four, four. Right. So I will just say that if Steve Ballmer elects to go to battle here legally, I cannot predict what would happen within the league with the other owners. I can say that right now.

Again, you heard me last week and I wrote a piece that ran on ESPN.com over the weekend that said the same, where I advise the clippers to accept the penalty and try to leave room to negotiate later. I heavily researched what happened with Minnesota in 2000. McMahon, do you know when the timber wolves got their first draft pick restored? It was about a year later, wasn't it? It was two days after they pled guilty. Two days. McMahon, the penalty came down in October, and the wolves had their first returned pick back before Christmas.

And I'll just point out, like, the wolves at first were in denial. They did not, the process was different back then. They used an arbiter, not a law firm. But when the, when the wolves were found guilty, Glenn Taylor said words that were not, I'm guilty. Kevin McHale, who was the vice president of basketball operations, said words. He was like, I didn't even know this existed. You know, he pled ignorance. They thought about it, and they ended up pleading.

They negotiated with the league office and they played guilty. Okay. And two days after basically they raised the white flag in December, David Stern gave him back a pick. And a year later, he gave him back the second pick. Now, he gave him back, you know, he suspended five years, took away five years a pick. he gave him back year three at first and then year five. It wasn't if he gave him back immediately. But I think the clipper should study that.

Well, there are a few things here. Number one, and you could say this is because the league had to cut essentially a deal or get Kauai to sign off on it to accept it to avoid arbitration because only the player can trigger the arbitration process. but by not voiding Kauai's contract, in a way, that delivers them two picks back, right? Two picks plus a swap right there. So that, I mean, that's a massive difference because if this contract gets voided or, again, even if there's like a significant suspension, that's when the Raptors would have absolutely had every right in the world to say,

okay, let's redo this trade. Let's renegotiate the return. You have that. And the other thing is you have the potential written into the, you know, into the league statement for further digging and further punishment. You know, I mean, the league. That's right. But the league basically said, hey, there very well could be more to find. We'll keep looking.

And if we find it, we can swing another hammer. Well, look, I talked to a number of people about this. And some people said that the clippers should go on the offensive because part of the way that you get what you want is by going on the offense. And, you know, that that's what lawyers are for and that there's more ways to achieve, you know, negotiation than capitulation. But I'm just telling you, my conversations indicate that Steve Ballmer's support amongst ownership is currently nil. And I can't predict what's going to happen. there. The second thing that I'm going to say is I have seen some people talk about, well, let me just say one thing first. Your point about Kauai sort of doing his own negotiation.

Back in 2000, the league didn't do this this way. They voided Joe Smith's contract immediately, and Joe Smith did go to arbitration, which allowed the Timberwolves to fight it for a while. Joe Smith didn't play. The suspension came down in October, the ruling came down in October, and Joe Smith sat on the sidelines for two months and didn't play. And then in the late November, the arbiter ruled in favor of David Stern. Joe Smith lost his contract was voided, and he went and signed with the Bulls. and then the wolves played guilty, but it did open up the way for the wolves to fight it through arbitration.

Well, a couple of lawyers who were involved in that decision back in 2000 were Adam Silver, who was one of the lead lawyers at the NBA at that time, and Rick Buchanan, who's now basically the top lawyer other than Adam Silver at the NBA. And they learned from their lesson. And they said, you know, last time we penalized the player before we had a guilty plea from the player. And that opened us up to having to play defense. And so you saw how they learned from this one. Yeah.

They basically got Kaua to take a plea deal, which for him was a $700,000 fine, which he's like, man, I made a lot more than that. Let's go. And he defanged one of the routes that the Clippers have here. The price of a clean eight, 700 grand, baby. All right. So the league office learned from Joe Smith. Let's see if the clippers learned from Joe Smith. The second thing I want to say is, I can't prove what Kauai Leonard knew and when he knew it. Okay. The implication that he didn't know this was happening. And I saw, you know, Draymond Green came out and others came out and said, I believe him. Hey, listen, I don't know what Kauai knew. But I do know this. If Kauai did not know,

that Uncle Dennis was getting him 30 plus million dollars in in endorsement deals he wasn't working for. I mean, 40 plus million plus the equity ended up being worthless. Then Kauai needs to talk to authorities because that would be a multiple level felony if you were misrepresenting somebody and taking money on their behalf. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened. So, you know,

Pablo Tore tweeted out the screenshot of the LLC that has Kauai's signature on it. Well, it was a docus sign. So, yes, that, that, you know, first off, I'm not looking to disprove that. I find it

very unlikely Kauai didn't know. But if his, if his explanation is that he didn't know, that Uncle Dennis stole tens of millions of dollars in his name and should, be facing federal charges.

Sure. To my knowledge, to my knowledge that complaint hasn't been brought by Kauai. Yeah, if these deposits didn't hit Kauai's account, then that's a whole other deal. I'm, I think Uncle Dennis took a healthy commission would be my guess. Right. Why got money and money off of this. And, you know, as far as Kauai's approaching this, he didn't have to explain anything. Clean slate.

He's playing for the Raptors. And Kauai is already, he's already given his expect. his explanation. He's never been one who's minded awkwardness in a media session. That's true. That's true. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. I was talking to somebody who's been around the league for a long time.

And he said, you know, the Clippers were guilty of the same thing that the Nets were. They had Little Brother Syndrome. Oh, yeah. And they really tried to, they were so focused on not being the little brother anymore that they took way too big of gambles and stuff. And the Nets have done it twice. The Nets did it with the KG Pierce deal. And then they did it again with the Kauai, Kyrie, you know, then James Harden trade. Now, what I will say about the Kauai, I'm sorry, did I say KD, Kyrie, and then training for James Hardin soon thereafter.

That's a situation. Anybody who would have been in that position to do it would absolutely have done it. And anybody who would have been in a position to get Kauai Leonard fresh off of finals MVP and Paul George fresh off the first team all NBA season, I think would have done it too. You can quibble with the price. And obviously even before all these penalties, the price that completely blew up in their face and paved the way for OKC to have a championship team in the potential dynasty. But Little Brothers syndrome absolutely trying to fast forward, no question about it. But it's not like at the time people were questioned, why would you do Kauai Leonard and Paul George? No, I understand.

But it's just sort of the like, you know, they moved to Brooklyn, which that was a good move to move to Brooklyn. But, you know, you remember when they, like, you know, they announced their arrival. They had Jay-Z billboards outside the garden. Yeah. And, you know, we're like trying to take them on. The Clippers are the same thing. Now, they shared the same arena, but like they went a whole campaign, L.A.R. way. You know, they changed their name from the Los Angeles Clippers to the L.A. clippers.

And, you know, they built their own arena and said, we're, you know, we're going to be bigger and better. and they were chasing both teams. They had some bad luck. Obviously, Kauai's injuries, you know, who knows what had happened, Paul George's injuries. But there was hubris that contributed to both of these teams scubing their toes. Well, and, you know, Kyrie's injury, James Hardin's injury for the Nets, no question about it.

And in an alternate reality, maybe both of them work out. Maybe, but there, yeah, it was Little Brother syndrome and just desperately chasing relevancy for, for, you know, I don't know, when's the last time the Nets were really truly relevant in the NBA? It's, it's been a long time. And for the Clippers, they had a stretch irrelevancy with the Lobb City Clippers. They just weren't able to break through. And then Balmer basically decided that no matter what it took, no matter what rules needed to be broken, no matter what trade needs. to be made, you know, whatever it took, he was going to get Kauai Leonard. And in that process, the power structure of the clippers was Kauai slash Uncle Dennis at the top,

and then Balmer, and then downhill. And that was an epic disaster. I had a I had someone tell me that now that Wachtell Lipton is done with this well I mean not really done with the investigation but you know. They're not. We continue. They suggested that the NBA reopened the investigation from Mikhail Prokroff into Andre Kirillinco. Hey, how's that? Junior investigation going on.

Yeah, now you can move on to that. David Andrus, I believe it's David Andrews, the one of the lead attorneys, he's moving on to, moving on to Gary Trent. In the case of Andre Kirillinco, right after Mikhail Prokerov, and, you know, Prokerov was Balmer before Balmer, although extremely different temperament. But, you know, this extremely wealthy Russian who just throwing money around like crazy. You know, shortly after he bought the nets and the nets were sort of ramping up. Andrei Karolenko, who's the greatest Russian ever in the NBA? Yeah, since you don't, since Sabonis, you know. Yeah, Sabonis is not in.

Yeah, I mean, Sabonis played for the Russian national team until that whole geopolitical event happened. Yeah. So anyway, Andre Karolinko was, he was on the backside of his career, but he was playing in Minnesota. and it was clear that, you know, that the Prokerov wanted a Russian player, wanted the best Russian player. And so Kierlinko had a contract option with Minnesota. He had a 10-year contract, a $10 million one-year player option.

He had a decent year the year before, but not a great year. And he opted out of it. And shortly thereafter, he signed a two-year, $6 million deal with the nets. Yeah. And so he left 7 million on the table in the first year and 4 million overall. And, you know, this is in 2013, you know, consider inflation. Wow, 6 million U.S. dollars.

And what's the Russian currency? Who knows how many of this? Who knows how many rubles? So anyway, as you can imagine, there were howls of, You know, this is back before Bitcoin. You know, this is back before you could, like, have a drone, like, you know, drop a bag of cash in someone's backyard or something. But the NBA did investigate a thorough review, they said.

And they, I think it's too bad we should have Bobby on here because I think Bobby was involved in this. Bobby might be on here pleading the fifth. I would advise Bobby not to speak about it. Yeah, for a variety of reasons. Yeah, but I'll just say that I've heard some stories about Prokeroff and players that involved, I want to be careful what I'm going to say here. I'm on the S.C. I have heard stories about Prokeroff that involved offering currency delivered in other countries.

as offers. Not that it actually happened, but that it was offered. Honestly, Balmer would have been better off going like old school Southwest Conference style and just leaving duffel bags stuff with cash you know, for Kauai to stumble across.

Quite clearly. Who's to say that? Well, I'm not going to say that. Yeah, or, you know, just, you know, leave a envelope of diamonds in his locker or something. You know, the paper tray is what the paper trail in third parties are what got them here. And, you know, the paper trail is funny.

You know, the whole aspiration thing, right? Right. How did Balmer become involved with aspiration in the first place? Because, you know, there is this desire to help the environment. And the Clippers, very famously, did go paper free, right? And so, like, for example, I found out that we're laughing the other day about the notes that Lawrence Frank kept. I'm like the BS deals and all that kind of stuff.

Those weren't on paper. Those were in the computer. Do you know that for sure? Yes. I was told this. So those were like part of the, you know, those were discovered because that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Digital footprint.

Help the environment. hurt your story. All right. Well, I guess we'll see on that one. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right. Some other events in the NBA. We haven't spoken, I think, since Amman Thompson did his five-year, $208 million

extension with the Houston Rockets. Not a first couple days in September, a little bit of an unusual time to get a contract extension done, McMahon. But the Rockets obviously were pleased with doing this because they've been a team that has been, you know, they've, they've held their ground in rookie extensions, whether it was with Jabari Smith, Alpern Shingoon. Alparan Shingun, they got, I think, a pretty good deal on that. I mean, we would say Jalen Green back then. Jailen Green. Yeah, no, I mean, Jailen Green, that was a, you know, a. definitely a sort of creative deal that happened near the deadline.

So my guess is... Jimenez Green were both right before the deadline. Jabari Smith Jr. was like right as free agency opened, remember? Right. And then this... Typically, when it comes to rookie extensions, you either get a done deal right away or it goes near the deadline. It's kind of unusual to happen in the middle.

Yeah. And so far, there's only two, from this first round draft class at least. there was and both of them are examples i don't want to say taking less um but actually in the case victor women yam there's no question it's an example of willing to be taking less now he hadn't technically qualified for the supermax escalator the 30 percent but if he plays 65 games it's an absolute no-brainer that he will and he said nope i'll do 25 percent flat I don't need anymore. I want to have flexibility.

And this is a case with, so we said, you know, you said the Fun Max had died and Wimby is like the exception to that. But this is a case. Like I'm in Thompson's a guy who would have been an easy Fun Max decision probably on the previous CBA. But this is significantly less than the 25%. And obviously there's no supermax escalators,

There's no rose rule eligibility written in this. This is, you know, it's rounding up 21% basically across the board. So it's like 20.6 something percent according to Bobby Marks's handy-dandy cat figures that we have. So, like, you know, you're talking four plus percent less than Fun Max. Like that, that's a significant. 4% doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're signing for hundreds of months and millions, it makes a difference. And trust me, a team like the Denver Nuggets would love to have 4% back of some of their highest salaries. Right. And again, the way that teams are thinking about

these figures is not, this is not about cap space. It's about room to the aprons, because that's these playoff teams, these contenders, that's what they're talking about when they talk about flexibility, because that's how trades are made now. Right. And so, if, you're talking about like seven, eight million dollars in a year. Yeah, boy, yeah, that is a, that's some significant wiggle room when you're trying to stay under an apron. All right. So as somebody who spends a lot of time around the Rockets, what is your opinion of this decision? For the Rockets, I think it's great business.

And I, you know, I've been telling you for a while just how much the Rockets value I'm in Thompson. No question. I mean, like, if there's one. untradable player on the roster, it is him. You know, they, according to their metrics, you know, they think he's one of the top 10, and I might be inflating that number, most valuable players in the league. Now, we can argue and we can debate and you can say that's ridiculous. I'm just telling you the way that they view him.

And so for them to get a player they value that much on this deal is, you know, that is great value for them. And, you know, for Amin Thompson, look, dude, $208 million fully guaranteed, and there's no options either way in the deal. He's set for life. You know, he wants to be in Houston. He's going to be in

Houston. He's going to be rich. You know, his bloodline will be rich for generations. So I absolutely can see why he was like, hey, great, let's get it done. Let's sign it. And, you know, let's get ready for training camp. Well,

you know my standard. Could you trade the contract? He's not eligible to be traded right now, but could you trade the contract? I think yes, absolutely. Yeah. And again, you know, we talk about the dollars, the dollars were reported, but when you talk about and when teams think of these things, it's in its percentage of cap. I'm in Thompson at a 20 point something percent percentage of the cap is,

a valuable player in the trade market for sure. And anybody who talks about this will immediately talk about his offensive struggles. That's been what we've talked

about since he was coming out of overtime in post high school. There's no doubt that his offense is an issue. And I had one executive say to me his shooting to be clear. Right.

Yes, his shooting, you know, which got worse actually from long range last year. His ball handling is he's got some wiggle. No, that's what I'm saying. He's a dynamic finisher, obviously. He's a good playmaker, not great, but a good playmaker. He's good attacking off the dribble.

He's a complete non-shooter at this point. I had one executive say to me, okay, it's a five-year contract. He's got this year left on his deal, so it's really a six-year deal. says how many all-star teams is he making in those six years? If I gave you an over-runner of two, what would you take? Well, I think if he was making the max, you know, you'd like to have more than two, but he's not making the max. So I think if you had a two-time all-star, you'd be pretty happy with that.

But his point was this contract is someone who's reserved to be a multi-time all-star, even at this number, is what his. his point was. Well, there's a lot of bad contracts in the league then. You know, like, seriously. That's true. I mean, talk to me about Franz Wagner. Yeah, well.

For an example, he was a 25%. And I'll just ask you this. If you're building a team, would you rather have Powell Ben Carroll or M. Thompson? Well, I have to figure in the contracts. I'm just talking about the player. Forget the, forget the contract. I'm just talking about the player.

I think that'd be an intro. I think if we took a poll of president of basketball operations, GMs, those type of folks, I think it'd be a pretty interesting poll to take. I think a lot of people would take Amen because what he does is so highly desired in the league. And you need versatile athletic defense. And it's harder to find than what Paolo does. does, which is, you know, offense first. Which is high usage, middling efficient.

I don't know, man. Like the thing about Paolo, anytime you have a discussion, you just bring yourself back to the plus minus. Yeah. And so. And men, like, the Rockets haven't made a playoff run yet. They haven't gotten out the first round yet. But, like, the analytics nerds would take him in Thompson. I can tell you that.

I agree. Yeah. Well, when I say the plus minus, the, the, the, man. have continued to have to be outscored with Palo on the court. Yeah. It's been happening for years. And, you know, that's a factor. Speaking of difficult plus minus, Ben Simmons resigned in the NBA.

By the way, interestingly, I think Amin Thompson, like the best version of him is a young superstar version of Ben Simmons. the best version of him offensively. I think that's the best comp for him. Well, Ben Simmons was a superstar. I was a superstar. I'm just telling you, I think that's the kind of player that a men Thompson can be. By the way, when the Sixers gave Ben Simmons his max contract, he had already been a two-time All-Star.

He was rookie year and two-time All-Star. He already was a multi-time All-Star. Yeah. Now, what's the most points per game that Ben Simmons ever scored? I just happened to have it in front of me. Right. So I know that he averaged his first three years, he averaged 16, 17, 16. Yeah.

And look, scoring is higher now than it was back then, but I'm in Thompson, averaged 18.3 last year at age 23. But my point is a big, hyper-athletic, dynamic, attacking playmaker who's just a menace defensively, but does not have a jump shot. And you need to surround those players with shooting. I think to maximize Ben Simmons back in the day to maximize them in Thompson. Now you've got to surround them with shooting. Ben Simmons, first year won rookie of the year. Okay. Actually, the first year, you know, he had the broken foot. So then he had, then he was rookie of the, then he was rookie of the year his second year. And still mad about it,

even though Donovan Mitchell dumped them. the third year made the all-star team then i guess he signed uh his extension yeah then he was a all-star again third team all-nba first team all defense yeah his first year of after signing the contract fourth fourth defensive player of the year voting all-star NBA third team first team all defense and then his fifth season fourth year of actually playing second and defensive player of the year made the all-star for the third straight year defensive all defensive team yeah and then had the mental block meltdown when he passed out of a layup. Yeah, that last year in the playoff, you know, most of that stuff was done before the pandemic.

Came back. I don't know. He was never quite the same player. It was a combination. Clearly, there was some mental blockage. There was some, yeah, I don't even know what to say, but some psychological stuff. and then the back injury. Yeah, the back injury.

The back injury plays bigger roles as anything. Absolutely, because this is a dude who was just an extraordinarily dynamic 6'10, 240-pound athlete. And then he just wasn't that same kind of athlete after he had the back issues. And I'll be honest with you, when the back issues first popped up, I thought it was BS to get his way out of Philly. when he was in that standoff with the Sixers. That's right. Well, he held out and then had the back injury when he came back. Yeah, then he has a surgery.

And obviously nobody has back surgery just to, you know, because like that. Yeah, it's not fun. That's a last ditch type of thing. And he just never was the same after that. And his whole game was predicated on being one of the most dynamic players athletically that we've seen in a body that big. I mean, when he was young, I remember him coming through Dallas,

his rookie year, and I still remember he had a put back dunk in traffic where I was just like, I have never seen a point guard do that. Like, what? I mean, just like going up in a forest of bodies over everybody, catching the ball and throwing it down.

I was like, oh, my goodness. And then some of the things he, would do defensively. You know, he was one of the only guys in the league who could take Luca one-on-one and like his odds, realistically like his odds in that matchup. Right. That's true. He just turned 30.

Didn't play in the league last year. He was fishing, apparently. The last time he played was two years ago. He played with the Nets and the Clippers. And his last deal with the clippers, he, you know, was not effective. No. So, you know, we'll see. Yeah.

I mean, look, it's a minimum deal. Is it even guaranteed? It's not guaranteed, is it? I haven't seen the details on that. I would be stunned if it was. I would too. I don't know. Except for it is the Kings.

You know, if it just as a flyer, Like, I get it. I just, you know, I don't know what Ben Simmons is in today's NBA. I don't think he can be a point guard anymore. You know, I don't think he has that kind of quickness and athleticism anymore. You know, could you talk me into him being some kind of like second unit playmaking power forward? You know, he could peek under the right circumstances he could play center. He has played center at times in his career.

Yeah. So, you know, the King's roster is sort of all over the place. You know, obviously you're going to, you know, if you're a Kings fan, you can't wait to see Darius Aikoff. Like, what's going to get you to the games is let's watch Darius Aikoff. Like, that's your hope that you're turning your team around. and, you know, they have a couple other, you know, interesting young players. Need Clifford and Max Rayneau last year were interesting. Like those guys could be players going forward.

They drafted Alex Carabon in the first round this year, so we'll see what that is. But then they have sort of, and they have, you know, Keegan Murray is still pretty young. And they invested time in him with a contract extension last summer. And but then, you know, we talked, you know, then they've got. sort of Zach Levine hanging around who they can't get rid of and Malik Monk hanging around who they can't get rid of and Subonis who you know is going to be sure he's going to be difficult to trade and they have DeAndre Hunter who was injured after they traded for him last year so they've got these you know I don't know I don't know where Ben Simmons fits in that yeah yeah I mean let's be

honest, we don't know where Zach Levine fits and he's making what, $49 million this year? Like, we know where he doesn't fit, where he doesn't fit in their future. I think the question is, can they use that expiring contract to do something in the trade market? But it smells like a buyout candidate to me. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, they'll hold on to him for a while to see what they can do with it. Right. I would be pretty surprised if he finished the year with the Kings.

Yeah. But, all right, well, good luck to Ben. So McMahon, today I got a tour of Fulham, the English football club. Ooh. I got a tour of the new wing of their stadium. And Fulham is on the west side of London right along the Thames River. and they built They named the rib-wrapped

Mantims and me? They did, both of you. It's great. It's nice and clean, too. It's actually reminiscent of you two. It's very shallow. Oh, wow. Okay.

You know, a mile wide and an inch deep. No, it's actually, it's not that shallow, but it is shallow by Fulham. And the reason it's interesting is the spurs were recently over here taking a look at it. And what I thought was fascinating about it was, so they have this very old stadium called Craven Cottage.

And it's known for in the corner of the stadium is a actual cottage. Okay. That you is actually, I think the bottom level is like the locker room. How old are we talking? Oh, Google. Like hundreds of years? type of thing. Yeah, it's probably 100 years old.

What's it called? Craven's Cottage? You keep talking. Craven Cottage. Okay. Oh, Craven Cottage is 246 years old. There you go. That's cool.

The original cottage was built in 1870. I think it's been updated a little bit since then. Okay. The main pavilion was built in 1905. But anyway, they rebuilt one side of the stadium. And they put in a like social club. And 330 days a year, it's a social club. Like you have to be a member.

Okay. And it is like hoity tooty type of social club. Yes. And it is sweet. I mean as, I mean, I mean, opulent, yes, but not like opulent with like, you know, gold leaf hanging and everything. It was really 1780 as a cottage. That's what I just said.

Oh, God, they said 1870. Oh, maybe I did. I don't know what I said. Okay. Anyway, it's old. So the Spurs visited that? They did because, you know, the Spurs are building a new stadium arena. Right.

Yeah. And this, I've been to many stadiums over the course of my, career. I've never seen a state. And so there's a hotel in there, too. There's a small hotel in there. And so it's like a, so have you ever been to the Soho House, McMahon? I have not. Jackson, have you ever been to the Soho House? I feel like Jackson would have been to the Tucker. Have you ever been to the Soho House? I have not had the privilege. Anyway, it was. I don't know where it is. I knew Tucker had been to the Soho House. It's built like, well, it's all over the, they have them all over the world, but it's like a private

It's a private club. Oh, I certainly not. The long to. And anyway, the Soho Club helped Fulham design this. What I'm telling you is I think NBA teams are going to look at this. This is my point. They already are looking at it. To, like, have a club.

Private club is part of the arena type of thing? Yeah, that you use on nights where you don't have, you know, during game day, it's their hospitality area. Right. You know, like high-end hospitality. And the rest of the year, it's like a social club. By the way, they have a swim. they have an infinity pool

in there, an outdoor infinity pool, which there can't be too many of them in London. That's that you can see the pitch how do you like that? You cannot. No. Okay. Can you see the pitch from the hotel,

from hotel windows? You can. Some of the rooms. It's kind of like the Blue Jays ballpark. Yes, yes. So. Perhaps the curtain should have been closed.

Yes, that was a little bit of a legendary situation. I can't speak to, I'm sure the Londoner are much more high class than that. But anyway, I thought it was really interesting, and I thought that this could be sort of the next frontier of stadiums, which is to use them for more than just, you know, the games themselves.

Well, you know, the Mavericks and the Las Vegas Sands group were trying, and still would love to, but they haven't made any progress on this. They were trying to build their arena. as part of a big casino slash resort. They're still planning and doing like the resort and all that stuff around it. But obviously the casino, there's been, I don't think they've made any kind of progress as far as getting gambling legalized in Texas. But, you know, that's the idea is to have the arena be, you know, kind of a focal point,

but just a part of a massive resort. Well, I will just say that, you know, Jackson made a joke on our chat about the forum club the forum club changed the way people go to games you know and this potentially

this is a potential game changer I thought it was you know and the you know Fulham is not one of the bigger it's a London club so it's naturally you know it's owned by Shod Khan and Tony Khan

who his son Tony who own the Jaguars but um Yeah, I thought it was really cool. I can see, you know, the Spurs are building a downtown arena. It's coming up.

Right there by, you know, where old hemisphere arena was back in the day. Right. So, you know, this was pretty cool. I also want to thank Manchester City for hosting me while I was here this weekend, taken care of wonderfully by Man City. enjoyed their game against Coventry City, the new member of the Premier League, which they beat. Oh, that's good. Erling Holland scored.

You know what Erling Holland is? I do. He's the dude with ponytail who was like a... He cut his hair off. Oh, no. Well, he was... Yeah. Remind me the country.

Holland? Norway. Yeah. I was close. And I knew he was... His last name is Holland. He's from Norway. Oh, well.

hence my confusion. Yeah, anyway. And tonight. Good question. I'll have to research that. I think Finland has a guy named Norway. Tonight I went to a league one game, which is sort of akin to double a baseball.

It's like two divisions down from Premier League. AFC Wimbledon versus Bromley FC. You know, I've heard AFC Wimbled and referred to as the Akron Rubber Ducks of, you would be in the Well, the Akron Rubber Ducks won 2-0 tonight in that case. I was hosted by Bromley tonight, and I want to thank them for hosting me. So I had a little soccer. Now, I'm guessing, because when I did my little Google on Craven Cottage, there are

public tours. I'm guessing you didn't take one of those. Sorry, you're coming in and out here. I'm not quite getting. No, I want to thank Fulham for their accommodation. I didn't get to see them. I've seen a match there before. I was very kindly invited by Tony Kahn once to sit in the cottage for a match.

Which was a great experience. Must be nice to have building everybody, so I tell you what. Yeah. But, yeah, so I have my little London excursion here, and now it's back to the grindstone, back to the U.S. as we ramp up for training camp coming up. You know, speaking of the Sands group, the games in Macau, the preseason games,

which will be Mazz Rockets this year, are played in the arena that's attached to the Venetian resort. So that might be kind of a little sneak preview of at least conceptually what they're thinking about doing here in Dallas. Interesting. I'd love to see that arena. It would be nice. All right. So that's all I got for this episode, McMahon.

Well, did pretty well, man. I hope you're not tuck it out from doing all your, you know, what is it, high tea, all that kind of stuff up there in London. When do we get you back on this side of the pond? I'm headed back on Tuesday. How do you feel about that? You know, listen, this is the best time of year. Football season is going on.

I mean, you know, how was your first college football Saturday? First college football Saturday was good, man. It was out. It was a pretty wild, you know, not a real impressive schedule, but a pretty wild weekend. Nevertheless, I mean, I stayed up. I woke up to the Michigan. I woke up on Sunday morning to the Michigan. That extra second, I'm sure you're a little Ohio State buddies have had some things to say about that one.

You know, it's not like it used to be. Now, you know, an individual loss doesn't matter as much. Buddy, an individual loss in a coach's debut from Michigan to Western Michigan, would have been, come on now. That would have been a pretty big deal. I am just waiting for the investigation into Central Michigan and Connor Stallions to be completed. I still have not heard the results of that investigation. Put it right there on the back burner with Gary Trent Jr.

I want to hear the results of both be announced. Walk tell, get on counterstallians on the sideline at Central Michigan. Speaking of which, speaking of college football, Ohio State at Texas. Oh, that's right. Are we not going to speak now? No, no. We're going to speak. I believe our college game day brethren will be down there in Austin.

You know, my daughter's all excited about the festivity coming up over the weekend to come. since you already owe me two dinners due to bond temps. I literally bought you dinner less than a week ago. Go ahead. That was for my birthday. You still owe me too. Here's a deal. Here's my proposal. If Ohio State wins, I will buy an Ohio State hat and wear it on a podcast.

I'm asking you to do the same if Texas wins for Texas. Buy a nice long horn hat. I just want one podcast wear out of it. it. I think that's a, that's a reasonable wager, all in good fun. All right. I accept. Okay. And I won't try to, you're not going to try to change the terms. Oh, no, just straight up. I haven't even, I don't care about the line. I haven't even looked at the line. Just straight up. Okay. Straight up. If, you know, if, if, if, you know, if Mr. Manning, not the Mr. Manning that we're working for here on the podcast. Yeah, I mean, you know, we're very, we're, we're partners with the

Manning's family. Right. But if Arch leaves the horns to victory, you will wear a nice. It doesn't have to be burned orange, but at least, you know, it's got to be a Texas hat. I would recommend a nice longhorn logo. And I will, if the Buckeyes pulled out, then I'll buy a little Buckeyes hat. All right. Well, I'll just say that, you know, I just thought I would let you know, remind you that Ohio State is two and no against Texas the last two years.

Now, one was on a neutral field, although it was in Texas. And the other one was at Ohio State. I recall the ones very distinctly that was on a neutral field. I attended that game. I'm not sure if you remember that. Yes. Well, how'd you get those tickets? Friends in higher places.

Yeah, yeah. All right. So we'll see how that goes. I will say, I mean, my year was Arches. It wasn't his first start of his career, but it was his first performance as, you know, DQB1. I don't think he was quite ready for the stage. I do believe he is now.

That's all I'm going to say. Yeah, I would agree. And I would just say that that game doesn't really mean a whole lot to me because Ohio State's quarterback Julian Sayan was his first college game as well. And both coaches were petrified of their quarterbacks. And they just ran a bunch of three-yard, three-yard routes. It was not the most aesthetically pleasing college football performance in recent history. Yes.

So I will look forward to. I love watching college football in September. So it's one of my favorite things to do. So I look forward to it. And, all right, McMahon, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you so much to Jackson and Tucker,

who won overtime behind the scenes. Thank you to Mark and Miles, are their producers. Thank you for listening and watching to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week. Hocom and Adios Amigos.