Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Hornets Hit Huge Cultural Reset + Huge Factors To Watch For Jaylen Brown, LeBron & Kawhi

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Vince Goodwill to break down the Hornets’ continuing reset with the trade of Miles Bridges to the Suns including the doors that could open moving forward in Charlotte. Next, the guys break down the latest on Jaylen Brown’s future in Boston and how the Celtics’ trade approach could indicate the future of the franchise. Plus, could Kawhi be on the move if the Clippers are allowed to make a deal and is returning to Toronto on the table? Finally, we discuss some updates on where LeBron stands with the Lakers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Hello, welcome to The Who Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday afternoon here in Akron, Ohio. Why not? Why not? joining me from New York City, Vince Goodwill. What up, though, Wendy? What up, Do?

Joining us from Dallas, Texas, is Bad McMahon. Howdy, partners. Now, Vinnie, you see how I say partners? It's plural. It's not like an exclusive greeting. I'm very inclusive with it. Maybe you want to learn from that. What up, though, McMahon.

Thank you. Good job. Good job all the way around. All right. Look, we're recording this in the mid-afternoon on Sunday. I expect there to be a rev-up of NBA transactions tonight into tomorrow. Monday is the last day of the league year. Free agency opens Monday afternoon.

A whole bunch of options and things are due. We're going to be a little bit behind maybe on this because I've got to travel out to L.A. tonight. So we've got a full week to go. So we're sort of time-stamping this for those reasons. We have some bigger topics to go over, but there was just a trade in the NBA. I thought we should hit that first. And even though it involved North Carolina, a team in North Carolina and a team in Arizona, Vince, this is very much of a Michigan trade. Michigan State, let's be more specifically that school wearing green and white.

You know, I always say that nobody loves people from Michigan State, more than people from Michigan State. And within the NBA, they call Phoenix West Lansing. So along those lines. Michigan State product, Miles Bridges, being traded from the Charlotte Hornets to Phoenix for Grayson Allen, who has some North Carolina ties, if I remember correctly. And Royce O'Neill, poor Royce keeps getting traded. everybody wants them the check's clear yeah um and so there's interesting thing about this uh uh the the the sons don't even technically sham's the first reported the sons don't even technically have the first round pick yet they don't have the first round pick like until july 6th but they've already

traded it they don't like to hold on to their first round picks too long so on july 6 the the sun's get, I guess maybe even July 1st, I guess maybe it's a lot of July 1st. The sons get access to their 2033 pick, and they have already traded it unprotected to Charlotte. And Charlotte is sending back a protected first round pick in this deal. So there's a swap of first round picks, but the more valuable one goes to Charlotte. And my understanding and expectation is that Miles Bridges will get a contract extension. He's on the last year of his deal. My expectation is that Bridges will get a contract extension as part of this deal and become the Sons starting foreman going forward.

So McMahon, obviously the Sons make a move here to power up their team with an offensive-minded four. But more interestingly, in the course of a few days, the Charlotte Hornets, who just had their most successful season in a decade, you know, made it into the play in tournament, all those positive vibes from winning in the play-in, winning in the play-in, kind of, you know, backed up by trading lamello ball in Miles Bridges.

Charlotte does not feel like, actions over word, Charlotte does not feel like they're good enough to compete. And we'll see. They have lots of cap flexibility. They can make more moves. But at the moment, it looks like they're taking a little bit of a retrofit step backwards.

Yeah, and this is a cultural reset for the Charlotte Hornets, and they're building around Brandon Miller, who's going to be 24 this next season, and Connipal, who's 21. So they're taking a long-term view to build around a couple of top five picks who have already been very productive and they feel like can be cornerstones

of that franchise moving forward. They didn't believe in the mellow ball as a cornerstone. They pounced on his value as soon as he had some, if they could have traded him last summer, they wouldn't say this out loud, but they would have. They did it as soon as they could. And then, you know, with Miles Bridges, a talented guy, you know, he's had some major, major off-court issues.

You know, last year, you know, really, he's had, he's been productive these last couple years. But as soon as they could have, they could get off him, they did. They were discussing trades regarding him last season before the deadline. And again, they took two of their best four players from last year's roster are gone. Two of their most productive players are gone. And this is a team, you know, the Buzz City Killers. You know, they were kind of the league past darlings for the second half of the season.

Two pieces from that lineup that statistically was the best lineup in the NBA during the regular season or out the door. But this is Jeff Peterson and the Hornets Management looking at this through a long-term view and saying, what kind of culture do we want as we build around Connipal and Brandon Miller. And that did not include the Mellow Ball. It did not include Miles Bridges. I agree. It's a step back. And then for the Sons, it's just, it's a swing at a significant talent.

You know what? I give Jeff Peterson in the Charlotte Hornets a lot of credit. Because you know how many people would have taken that sample size of how we finished the season and going into the playing. And, you know, of course, they got waxed by Orlando. in Orlando to get them knocked out of the playoffs, they would have taken that, especially in a basketball market like Charlotte, and said, look at all the progress.

We're going to build on that. We're going to keep lamello ball. We're going to keep all these guys and build on it. And he said, you know what? This ain't it. It takes a sober executive. It takes someone who's got some real life sobriety to say, like, you know what?

This ain't it. This isn't sustainable. or you know what, maybe it is sustainable, but the return I'm going to get on this, how high I'm going to go with these guys as our cornerstones in this Eastern Conference ain't high enough for me to just go all in on these guys. And like you talked about shining up La Mello Ball. We don't even mention the nonsense that Miles Bridges was involved in a couple of years, like having to sit out the entire year because of the nonsense that he was involved in.

And now you can ship him off to Michigan State. South West and tell him, hey, maybe he's, maybe he's reformed, maybe he's not. Not our problem anymore. That's a, that's a huge, huge thing. I think Miles has, you know, not had any issues in the last couple of years. So his value was. Let's just stop dancing around it, though. Like, in case anybody's not aware, he was suspended for a full season because of some

heinous domestic violence incidents. Right. Right. Let me be clear. I'm not saying that he still has those demons. I am saying, especially in the basketball market that Charlotte is, where Wendy, you remember this,

Charlotte used to be the number one basketball market before everything happened with George Shin, and then it just basically went to the tank. So they have a very high sort of threshold of what they consider to be, you know, athletic character, and they don't want the questions and everything else. So not saying that Miles Bridges is involved with anything now. I'm merely saying that that organization said,

you know what, let's get out from under this while we can. right now. I repeatedly see moves that Charlotte makes, and I have for two or three years now, and thought, all right, I get it. I get it. We haven't seen, you know, their home run has been, you know, getting in the lottery and getting Cinnipple. I mean, that's their home run move. But they repeatedly have made smart, smart moves. They're in great, they're in great position, draft capital-wise, which I'm going to talk about in a, you know, going forward. it here in this podcast. But they just have a lot of flexibility now.

So we'll see. In Phoenix's case, they've now just traded two of their best perimeter shooters. Bridges is a score, but he's not a perimeter shooter. He's a great dunker. Phoenix has signed some of their young guys, Gillespie. And who else did they sign? Jordan Goodwin, who was a really nice reclamation project. Both of them.

They signed two of their guards that they had on the roster. Both contracts, I think, were believed to be good value. Gillespie got, Noel Gillespie got $12 million a year, and people thought he might get more than that if he got to the open market. And so now I wonder, McMahon, if Phoenix is setting themselves up for another move, because I think they need some shooting. And I think this trade, acquiring this 2029 first, might give them some flexibility with some of their other firsts because they're, they're, you know, I got to check into that. I'm not quite ready for the podcast.

I'm not ready for you for you for my homework on that. But. By the way, did you say Noel Gillespie? Colin Gillespie? Colin Gillespie. Say, no. Colin. He looks like he could be a null.

Easily. Anyway. Okay, so I would keep an eye on Phoenix to see if they do anything further here. After they've already moved off the tiny little morsel of draft capital that they had. You know, just from a player perspective, Miles Bridges is pretty similar to Jalen Green, different position, but hyper-athletic, streaky shooter, but inconsistent. him, you know, I think, I don't know, I don't know if you'd say one of those guys is more talented the other. Those are their second and third most talented players around Devin Booker.

You know, it's, they were a pesky team that made the playoffs last year. But, you know, like the Hornets are, they are a three-point happy team. The Mello generated a ton of those threes, but Royce O'Neill is a three-and-d guy, almost, like 80-something percent of his shots for three-pointers. They just add Grayson Allen, who obviously is a volume three-point shooter. Like they will have a very clear playing style and they will have a very clear culture. Their ceiling is just not that high, but they've got the flexibility to try to raise that over the years. I forgot about Mark Williams.

They also extended Mark Williams, like three years and like 36 million. So Mark Williams, Colin Gillespie, Jordan Goodwin extended. I think extension is coming for Miles Bridges. and Dylan Brooks is going to the last year of his contract to $21 million, and I believe they are motivated to extend him. And I think they're, you know, I don't know if they're going to get on the same page,

but they're going to try. I mean, they could be in a situation where they extend five players in the same offseason. So, you know, you don't see that every day. And it's funny, you said that Jaylon Green is the second best player. I'm like Dylan Brooks is that team's second best player. Like he's second most impactful for sure. Perhaps.

Sorry, we can split hairs here, McMahon. You've been a, it's Sunday. You are in a scratchy kind of mood. Do you miss the other, Tim? Do you just want to get into arguments here on Sunday? Is that what this is? You want to split hairs? Yeah, and I also feel like we've lacked interruptions here in recent pond.

No, it's going so swimmingly. I feel like. I'm trying to get them in early and often. Yeah, we need more conflicts. What's been going on? Where's the, anyway? Anybody heard from him? More coming on that.

Is he as being getting any kind of draft compensation in that deal? Stay tuned. I'm not at liberty to say more. All I can say is stay tuned. I protected second rounder. Just stay tuned is all I can say about that. Cash. How about cash?

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2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. Anyway, okay, let's move on to some other stuff going on. I think we have to stop, I think we have to start at the Jalen Brown situation. So as you can imagine, the Jalen Brown situation is very heavily on the minds of a lot of teams. There's a lot of discussion. Boston is actively making calls. Okay. So I have been told that maybe not everything, everyone that they're trying, but Boston in some talks with some teams has been seeking heavy draft capital from teams, as they discussed Jalen Brown trades.

I heard of one team where they asked for five future first round picks. The team said no, and I don't think is going that direction. So I'm not even going to name the team because I'm not looking for that. But the reason I bring this up is that if they're, and obviously they have to get back players with somewhat matching salaries. It's not just straight. But what people in the league are discussing and what I'm starting to wonder is if the Celtics are looking for trades

that are heavy in draft capital. And to be clear, because I know this will get aggregated, it doesn't mean every trade they're looking at is draft capital, just all draft capital. But I have heard that they are looking for heavy. draft capital in return for Jalen Brown. And so what that makes me wonder is whether or not what their plan for next season is. Now, certainly, you can take a lot of draft capital and turn around and try to trade that for another piece. But if you're trying, if you're at least, you know,

making offers, you know, that include Jalen Brown and you're asking for this, it's implying that the Celtics are thinking about going a certain direction with their, team. Now, again, to underscore, they were trying to get Janus a week ago. Okay. So it's not like they've punted or anything, but it just, it's as these, as these things start to filter through the league, it makes people wonder what Brad Stevens is thinking about with his team right now. And we're seeing teams take step back, takes step backs. I mean, obviously, Milwaukee is taking a step back. It's kind of a decision been made for them. I don't know. can step back too far from last season, we go on.

Right, but they could have traded for Jalen Brown. Yes. Okay, they traded for controllable players on rookie deals and better draft capital, right? We got Charlotte for the moment, you know, we're in the middle of it looking to take a step back. We got Boston having conversations about draft pick-centric trades. What am I supposed to make of this, McMahon? So Charlotte, you get it because, again, they're building around two guys who are in their earlier, Brandon Miller's near his mid-20s, but two guys, you know, two high picks still on their rookie deal. Jason Tatum is 28 years old.

So, you know, to me, just like when the wolves traded Julius Randall, it's like, okay, what was next? And what next was obviously their swing at lamella ball? And so to me, if they make a deal with Jaden Brown that's primarily based on the draft picks, I don't think we can draw a conclusion until we see what happens for those draft picks in this transaction cycle even. You know, is there, do they already have something else set up or option A, B, and C set up? And well, there'll be another deal that's essentially an extension of that in the very near future. But this is a case where it is extremely difficult to trade. a perennial all-M-B-A player in his prime and immediately get better.

That's the challenge for Brad Stevens. And look, if you trade him for Janus, then yeah, you just did it. But by dangling Jalen Brown in that deal for Janus, they essentially got themselves out over the cliff and now they just got to figure out how to land. They got to stick a landing because I don't think there's any, oh, hey, Jalen, no, no, no. listen, let me just rub your back a little bit and tell you how much we love you. I don't, I think they're beyond that point. Well, I wouldn't say anything's impossible, but I'm picking up what you're laying down.

I think it's going to be extremely difficult. My point is they took a swing at trying to trade Jatham Brown to get better immediately. And now I think they've just got to find the best deal for Jatham Brown. And it's going to be extremely difficult for that to be a trade that allows him to improve immediately. while they have a superstar in his prime. Right. I think, and this goes back to my theory that Wendy shot down because he said Miami would do it. I don't know if Boston would do it.

When I told Wendy, did Boston put this Jalen Brown thing out there just so they could suck all of the capital from the Miami heat so Miami would be left with nothing other than Janus? the back end of that is what if they already made the decision to trade Jalen Brown anyway, right? I think knowing Jalen Brown plus two first round picks probably maybe they knew it wasn't going to get it done especially if, you know, Baylor Shireman is the lynch

penny, you're like, no, we just can't part with Baylor Shireman. We're going to pass up on Yonis out to the crumbo. That's OMA's guy. Yeah, there we go. We're going to pass up on Janus for Baylor Shireman. Forgive me for Sanchez. I was born.

I was born last night, but I stayed up all night. So follow me here, y'all. The Boston, look at the Boston Celtics. Jason Tatum, who knows what's going to happen with? We assume that he's going to be back and he's going to be himself. Derek White had a horrible year last year. You have new ownership that is taken over, and Jalen Brown is a very, very expensive player.

The players that they have under contract, now, aside from Jason Tatum and Derek White, are on the inexpensive side. I wonder if they're looking at another gap year to take a step back, to figure out some stuff, cut salary, and then maybe we figure out the rest. You can go from going all in to not really, really quickly. If they made the decision that with this current roster,

they can't beat the New York Knicks, who's to say that with this roster that had all these holes in it, in its front line on the wings at point guard, that they were going to be good enough to even get past the Detroit Pistons or Cleveland or whomever else may emerge in the Eastern Conference. So maybe just maybe this was the plan all along that we're going to take one last wing of a guy like Janus. And then if not, we're going to strip this whole thing down to the studs. Maybe. Or maybe they trade for two or three good plays.

I don't know. I just some of the talks have indicated to me maybe that's what they're thinking. By the way, let's ask us. I think Andrew Wiggins is going to pick up his option. I don't think they're going to do a new deal. We talked about that. Could change, but I think Wiggins by Monday, maybe even by the time of this podcast comes out,

Andrew Wiggins, from what I understand, is going to pick up his option, $30 million. That's going to leave the heat with $18 million to spend on five players. Now, they could trade another player away, but they won 43 games last year. And, like, there's some role players that they can add for certainly, you know, You know, they've made an offer for Tim Hardaway, for example. You know, they could try to get Gabe Vincent back, for example.

Let's just say they do really, really well with role players. They'll do well the minimum market because they've got stars that are in Miami. Right. Right. How many wins do we think? I mean, it's June 28th. I'm not holding you to it. I, you know, again, I think they can be like the sixth best team in the East.

Okay. Yeah, but like there are a few transaction cycles away from having a real chance of putting a supporting cast in place good enough to make a deep playoff run. Now, when you say a few, what's a few, McMahon? Transaction cycles. By that, I mean offseason, trade deadline, off season. I say they need a year. Yeah, so this is the first and then a deadline and then another offseason. Yeah, I say, here's my point.

Yannis got traded to a team that I, at this moment, at this moment, now they may pull something because they're the heat. at this moment, I don't think the heat are championship contenders. So Janice got traded to a team that's not a championship contender, right? We're not sure what's going on with Boston. Okay. We're not sure what's, that Charlotte has to this point taken a step back. Now, they've got $50 million under the tax.

They've got extra first round picks. They could go swinging for a major player in the next 10 minutes. I don't know, but Charlotte looks like it's coming backwards a little bit. I'm not sure Philly's going to do any more spending. Philly has taken steps repeatedly over the last few years to dodge the luxury tax. So I'm not sure they're resigning Quentin Grimes and Kelly Ubre. Not the Quentin Grimes and Kelly Ubrey are the Seek are the pathways to the title. But I'm not sure Philly's bringing back the team that they had last year that got late season run.

Okay? The calves look like they could, they might lose a player or two. I'm not sure they're going to be able to keep Dean Wade. They may have to trade another piece. You know, Max Drews has been sort of a little bit available. They may be trying to do an upgrade with the trade there. I think the Cavs might have been involved a little bit. I heard in the Miles Bridges discussions.

So maybe, you know, but I don't think you're seeing a major addition to the Cavs. I could be wrong. I'm not seeing a super duper arms race in the East here. I think Atlanta and Orlando will both be better this year. Yeah. You know, Atlanta really changed their roster a lot last year, then played well toward the end of the season. Orlando, I think, you know, they brought in Bain. I think his second year will be better. Obviously, they made a coaching change. But, you know, I hear what you're saying. I am having this conversation on Sunday, June 28th in the afternoon. Things are going to change significantly in the next 36 hours. By the way, I had to ask a cap guy. To go back a few minutes ago, the sons now get their 2008 first round pick that they could trade. So the sons traded a first, but they because they now have one more tradable first that they didn't before, just for housekeeping purposes. Obviously, this could change.

We could see moves in the next 36 to 48 hours that changed. I'm just saying here, as I'm watching and having conversations is what I'm feeling. Well, and Toronto's trying to make a major. Stop. That is where I wanted to go next. Now, Toronto, significant discussion out there in the league that they are in conversations with the Sli clippers about Kauai Leonard. Now, this is obviously a fascinating storyline because he left Toronto. Vinnie, do you remember when they were trying to keep Kauai in 2019, all those restaurants in Toronto,

pledged that they would give Kauai free food and they slapped these logos on all these restaurants, Kauai and dine. Do you think that offer still stands? That's my question. Hey, depending on what they want to do extension-wise, it might not be necessary. Correct. I mean, we all know that the extra stuff can always be a good selling point. It depends on what kind of aspirations you have.

Bontemps could never make such adept play on words there. You know, he was more of a fastball guy. Listen, what are talking about here? This is what we need to be focused on. Bontemps through heat. You know, a man from Detroit who wears the Hennessy specs, he has, you know, an ability to, you know, to be subtle. He didn't get a lot of stuff.

He's got a breaking ball, you know, a little curveball. He's got a slider, maybe even like a, you know, knuckle curly. I got some heat, too, but. You know, the sarcasm has gotten me in trouble recently. I've heard. I've heard about that. Yeah. Yeah, Bont Hemp's would throw chin music now. I mean, you know. And sometimes he, sometimes he'd, sometimes that fastball would hit the strike zone.

Sometimes it would. Sometimes you go halfway at the backstop. We love them. We love them. So here's the situation with Toronto, okay? They've got a lot of expensive players. So in this upcoming season, Scotty Barnes is at 42 million. untouchable, one of the best two-way players in the East,

had an awesome playoff run last year, playoff series last year that validated himself. Brandon Ingram is at $40 million, and then he's got a player option. I'm not sure his value is great. I think he's a good regular season player and will continue to be a good regular season player. I'm not sure they should be counting on him in the postseason.

He could prove me wrong, but I was just a little bit worried what I saw in this last postseason. Okay. They got Emmanuel Quickly, who's got three years and about $96 million left. That is a candidate to be traded, although they would need a point guard to replace them. I think you said Brandon Miller.

You meant to say Brandon Ingram. I'm sorry. Jackson, I'm sorry. Brandon Ingram, not Brandon Miller. Noel. Thank you. Yes. I just got a lot of stuff on my mind.

I'm also getting a lot of text messages like nonstop. And I'm just, you know, monitoring what's developed. I'm just constantly worried about we're going to be outdated. RJ Barrett's in the last year of his contract pays him just under $30 million. That's a trade candidate because, again, he's an expiring contract. You know, it's a situation where if you're not going to extend him, you should trade them no matter what. Jakopurl makes $20 million this year. He's got three more years left.

It's in the neighborhood of, it's over $80 million he's got left. Or, no, it's over $70 million. He's got left. It's a negative contract in terms of trade value. Right. And they got Grady Dick, who's in the last year of his rookie deal. He's extension eligible. I do not think that he will be getting extended. Stranger Things have happened, but he's an expiring contract. So they are primed to do stuff with their picks or with their players. They have assets. They have players with money that they can move. They own all of their first round picks going forward, all of them. There's only a couple of teams where you can say that. A few teams. There's a few that have more than that. But, but they own all of their first round picks going forward. All of them. There's only a couple of teams. There's a few that have more than that. But. They've got all their first round picks. They've got none coming in, none going out, all seven. And they've got five of their second round picks.

They've traded away two second round picks in the distant future. So they have, like, their entire pick portfolio and tradable contracts. And they were in on Janus to a certain extent. Not so much this time around, but certainly during the season. They were in on lamello ball to a certain extent. And so the Kauai thing is popped up. I'm hearing more Kauai right now. than anything.

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and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapeed denim wide leg. Now, the skepticism out there is whether or not the clippers would actually trade them. Because Steve Ballmer has never been a guy who's accepted a full rebuild. And, you know, they've pivoted. I think they're going to release some of their veterans in the next 24 hours. It's going to open up some cap flexibility so that they could make a lopsided trade if they wanted or they could sign a player.

they could certainly, if they do a deal with Kauai that offloads salary, they would have enough money to go after one of these restricted free agents if they wanted to. The Clippers are a team to watch in terms of their transactions. Then there's also the aspiration scandal which we don't know what's going on. And I've questioned whether the league would allow his contract to be extended if it's being investigated for being illegal in some terms. And I have questioned whether the league would allow him to be traded if there's some specific. of him being suspended. The league has to protect its other teams. But considering these trade talks are going on at some level, it seems

to, it indicates to me that the clippers think that they could trade him theoretically. Or will they trade him? I don't know. So that's where I'm at, Vinnie. And again, where's he on an extension? Because it ain't going to be at 50 mil per. He took a pay cut in the last one. It depends on what you

aspire for. Honestly, when you look at where Kauai is at 35 years old, right? there are other teams with the Clippers. I feel like I can say this because I've written it or it's going to come out tomorrow on ESPN.com. The Clippers are one of those teams that have been sniffing around Jalen Brown. They have one executive telling me that the Clippers want him bad. Now, what does that mean?

Does that mean that Kauai Leonard's going to Boston? Does that mean that you're shipping Kauai off somewhere else and you're going to start and Jailen Brown is considerably younger and everything else? Who knows? But I thought that was really fascinating. And I think I'm with you, Wendy. Most executives around the league thinks that something is coming down with the Clippers, or at least a decent amount of executives.

I haven't polled everybody. But the executives that I've talked to, they feel like something is coming down with the Clippers. They don't know what. They don't know to what extent if it's just going to involve, you know, ownership, executives or how it extends to Kauai Lennar. But if teams are actively looking at. at trading for Kauai Leonard. They have to be getting some type of instruction from the league.

Like, you can't let us get to the two-yard line and Schaimms puts out the tweet. And then all of a sudden the league comes in and says, no, you can't do that because we're probably going to suspend him for a considerable amount of time. That's just bad business on the part of the league. Adam, said during the finals, it's time for this investigation to end. Well, Adam, you kind of control that. That's four weeks ago. I think that was June 1st or June 2nd now.

That's four weeks ago. And we have a board of governor's meeting on July 15th where clearly that's going to be a question that we're going to ask him because it'll be seven weeks from that point. Like something has to happen. But that's after this transaction cycle. That's after all this business is going to be done. Something has to give here. Either it's something or it's nothing. You cannot put a team, whether it's Toronto or any other team, in a position to where,

they're trading for Kauai Leonard with no certainty, you know, about or whether he's going to be available for them. So I cannot imagine if Kauai Lennard is traded that he would then be suspended. The league's got to stop. They've got to put the brakes to it before. You can't do that after.

You know, the clippers are in a really interesting situation, though. They don't have controlled their first round picks the next three years. It's a swapped OKC next year. It's unprotected to Philly in 28, and it's a swap to Philly the year after that. Now, the Paul George thing, they made a decision like, hey, we would rather take a step back in terms of talent right now,

despite the fact that they obviously were out of picks moving forward, than to make an investment mistake, let's say, right now. So we will see, but regardless of the new, lottery rules and all that, there is zero benefit to the clippers in terms of the draft to take a step back. By the way, that's another thing when you're talking about anybody who wants to trade for three or four picks or more for any player right now, it's a hard time to trade picks because teams are more uncertain about the new lottery rules.

Like if a team, you know, if a team thinks it's trading for a player, like, you know, who's going to carry them for the next four or five years, because there's, because all their lottery lads are flat. I think it's just a harder sell to get that done, by the way, just as a side comment. And these lottery, these new lottery odds only exist for what the next three years. You have no idea what the iteration is going to look like down the line. It could, I don't think it'd be more punitive or more lopsided, but there's no way to predict that if you're talking about trade and drive capital beyond three years. Right. I just think that, look, if you have a superstar player that you want, you're probably going to do it. I'm just saying now is not, it's not, uh, picks are not trading hands. hands easily. I mean, if you looked at the draft, there were no trades made at the draft

for future picks. You didn't see, you saw swaps in this year's draft. You didn't see teams moving up offering future first. And even today, we saw a pick move with Phoenix moving a pick. But they got a first back, protected first, and it unlocked a pick

in the shorter term. So it has a little bit of an asterisk on it. And Phoenix, of all the teams, Phoenix has shown they've valued the draft the least. I mean, Matt Isfey has literally said, I can't believe people like root for future picks. You're excited about a draft pick in 233?

Well, listen, that's his, that's his prerogative. All right. So now I want to move on to the LeBron file here. Right, right. Oh. So the Lakers are involved in trade talks to use their I think they're starting on Monday. You're going to see the Lakers try to sign a center.

There's a couple of options out there. You know, Robert Williams is out there from the play coming off the Blazers. Mitchell Robinson is obviously out there if the Knicks aren't going to go to the second apron to keep him. Yousef Nurkich is unrestricted. You know, these are guys who can be your starting center. All of them have questions attached. But the Lakers are out there. I think, you know, can be active in free agency.

in that regard. They've been active in looking to use their space to acquire specifically wing defenders the last few days. And it just made me wonder, like, you know, if they're out there like trying to use space and they don't have, you know, LeBron's cap hold is like $60 million. And that's, you know, functioning the Lakers don't have space. There's space type of getting him to agree to a significantly reduced salary. Right. So just typically what you would do is, you would have LeBron, like, I felt six weeks ago, I felt we would know what LeBron was doing by June 28 or 29. Because I figured the Lakers had to have an idea of where LeBron was to conduct their

off-season business. So here we are. So I checked on it. And the Lakers, as soon as the finals ended, like, you know, they had a meeting with Austin Reeves and began the contract negotiations and ended up leading to him, deciding to stay, a bypass free agency. and they, you know, having some other talks, they reached out to LeBron, to LeBron's representative, to Rich Paul, and said, we'd like to have LeBron back, okay? But there have been no further talks. And from what I understand, like the Lakers have not made an offer, but LeBron, from what I understand, as of today when I got this update, LeBron has not, you know, made himself available to meet with the,

the Lakers, yeah. 10-year reunion, man, he was busy. Well, what I've been saying for quite some time now is the first step in this is that LeBron has to decide he's playing next year. LeBron has his own process. So, you know, like, he's not, you know, maybe he gets in front of the Lakers and there's a formal contract offer in the next 24 hours. Maybe it doesn't happen.

But naturally, Lakers, if they can't get, you know, if they can't get some sort of commitment from LeBron or they don't make it, whatever, they're going to have to move on with business. And that might mean that LeBron is limiting the money that he can make. Well, why wouldn't the Lakers just say, LeBron, this is what we have for you. And as respectfully as possible, like, this is where we're going to end up being. because we've got to use this cap space, which is the one time we will have it during the Luca Austin Reeves era to upgrade the rest of the rotation.

And the simple fact is because he won't meet, he's not made himself available to meet with them yet. Okay, we'll tell Rich Paul then. But are there any realistic scenarios where LeBron would have an offer more than the mid-level from another team? I don't know that right now.

I would just tell you that it's been communicated to me that the number one thing for LeBron next season is happiness, not money. So this is obviously we knew that he's going to have to take a pay cut from $50 million. So that has been communicated to me. And what does that mean? I don't know. Does that mean he's willing to take the mid-level? Does that mean he's willing to take the taxpayer?

You know, the mid-level is about 15. The taxpayer mid-level is like six and a half or seven or something like that. The minimum is three, nine, or four, something like that. I don't know what that means. But that's what I have to offer as we hit to, as we're on June 28th. LeBron's free agency with the lake or LeBron's contract negotiations with the Lakers have always been pretty quiet. And they've always been, well, not quiet, dramaless. If you go back to when he signed with the Lakers in, what is it, 2018 or whatever it was, that was pretty quiet.

It was announced on Twitter and everything else. And every extension, every two-year extension since then has been pretty quiet, pretty dramaless. This feels a little weird. This feels a little different. Last year wasn't because right after he picked up the player option, it was Rich Paul basically saying, hey, he wants to contend and kind of like, then we're on like, hold on, is LeBron asking for trade? What does this mean? You know, but that was what I was leading to.

It seems like things have gotten a little more contentious. since the Anthony Davis for Luca Donchish trade. LeBron has always been in the driver's seat. Like, he's always been the number one free agent in the league, and now he's not even the number one free agent in his own team. Let me speak to this. I have clearance to use this quote attributed to Rich Paul. Okay.

The Lakers are not and will not annoy us. Ha, ha, ha. Okay. That is the conclusion of the quote. Wow. Okay. Listen, he's not in the driver's seat. In other words, in other words, the reason I'm saying that now, Vinny, is like, what, like, what, what, what he's saying is we're not, you know, we're not annoyed.

We're not annoyed. The Bron, last year, came to an understanding and even an acceptance of where he was on the Lakers pecking order. Correct. And when he accepted that, hey, I'm the third option. You know, I call it the less is more role. he played phenomenal basketball and they had that run in March for what were they like 15 and 2 16 and 2

you know Luca and Austin Reeves ended up getting hurt I don't think they were going to beat Oklahoma City regardless of what happened but they played great basketball LeBron played phenomenal basketball now it's one thing to be to accept that in terms of the touches

and the shots and all that you know kind of your pecking order in the offense it's another thing to accept it when it's the financial pecking order. And right now, Luke is in the driver's seat, Austin Reeves is his shotgun? That ain't going to change. Is LeBron? Is he like got a little leg room in the, you know, in the back seat on the right side? You know, can Austin Reeves?

Or is he like sitting in the middle seat? Like, where is he? You know, where is he in that in that amount? It's not just a pecking order, but it's a style of play. Like if he is going to go out there and like be the go stand in the corner guy and then, you know, be the secondary playmaker when those guys are resting or whatever, does that change, you know, the way he wants to play? Like would he say, listen, if I'm going to be the third playmaker, what I, or, you know, if I'm not going to be the main guy, would I rather go be the support to Steph Curry as opposed to. Luca. It all depends on what matters most to LeBron James. Because here's the thing with the Lakers. The Lakers, I don't say historically, but most recently, the Lakers have taken care of their franchise player.

When we think about Kobe Bryant getting that balloon payment after tearing his Achilles and nobody blinking twice about it. Now, granted, where Kobe stands with the Lakers and Laker Ler and where LeBron stands. and Laker Lord two totally different things, but it comes down to what LeBron James views as respect from the Lakers. The one thing that LeBron will not stand for, no matter whether he's annoyed by the Lakers or not annoyed by the Lakers, he will probably not stand for disrespect at 42 years old. He hasn't said for disrespect for quite some time.

That's what I'm saying. So it all depends on, like, if the Lakers ask him to take $30 million, and the Warriors ask him to take $15 million because that's all we got. Would that 15 mean more to that 30 because you're giving me all that you have compared to not making me a priority in my own building? If the Lakers pay LeBron James $30 million next year, they are absolute fools. This is the one time they can use financial flexibility to make long-term upgrades. That's the difference, Vinnie, between now and when Kobe was there.

Because when Kobe was there, they were not a caps-based team. I mean, they could have been obviously. And they didn't have Luca. They didn't have Austin Reeves. Yes, I know. It's not apples to apples. Also, we didn't live in an apron system where you had other things that happened. The point is reasonable, but there's lots of nuance.

Okay, I'm going to say two things. One, on Monday, and again, just to be clear, maybe this happens today, before this podcast's posts. Let me just say. Tomorrow, Bronny James has a guaranteed date in his contract. His contract is partially guaranteed.

Now, it is guaranteed for $1.2 million right now, and if they pick up the option, it's $2.2 million. I think it is very likely that they're going to pick up that option because Brani had an increased role going down the stretch of the season.

Having said that, I do think that's something that at least is worth keeping an eye on about whether about, you know, picking up Ronnie or not. The second thing is that on Monday, Draymond Green has a $27 million player option in his contract.

It is likely that Draymond will pick that contract option up. And listen, if he doesn't pick it up, it doesn't necessarily mean that LeBron would be going to the Warriors. However, if Draymond, who is represented by Rich Paul and is close to LeBron, If Draymond passes on that contract option, the possibility exists of him taking less money and him taking money in a spot that can give the Warriors a pathway to get the $15 million full mid-level.

Now, Draymond's going to want more money on the back end doing it. He ain't going to do it for free. But, and again, I want to be crystal clear. I am not saying if Draymond does not pick up that option, that it means LeBron is going there. But if Draymond does not pick up that option as a clutch client close to LeBron, it opens the window for more things to happen with their salary books. So those are two things that could happen. I don't, I'm not sure we're going to get an answer from LeBron on Monday or Tuesday. But we may get, and we know what happens with Brani, like there's no way the Lakers are not picking that up.

But if they, if for some reason they don't, I just think it's worth noting, And if Draymond ops out, I think it's worth noting. Those are just two things I'm going to say. That concludes my commentary. Wendy is not speaking from an uninformed place. That's what I will say. I don't think Wendy is speaking. It's just talking out of his behind here.

I think LeBron has made himself the number one story in free agency, even if he is not the number one player in free agency. And that is a masterful. He's one of the most important players in free agency, though. I'm not knocking that at all. I am saying that the Lakers are in this position where, like McMahon is saying, we've got this franchise player in Luca Dachachach. At some point, we have to start building around him before his clock and his body starts ticking.

You did that with Austin Reeves, taking care of Austin Reeves. I wonder, like, LeBron being as good as he still is, did the Lakers bank on that? Did the Lakers bank on him being at 42 years old, a guy who was going to be as available as he was throughout the season and the playoffs, Reeves and Luca were not, and that this somehow could not wind up being a clean break. Like, it's just two different tracks, and they're kind of caught because Luca fell into their left that they did not predict. And the building around Luca thing, it's not at some point. It is now.

It is this summer. And that is what they promised Luca as they're talking to him and mapping out their plans before he signed the extension that he's on. and this realistically is their best opportunity. Because, again, it's not like if they don't spend it now, they'll have it later. No, because Austin Reeves' contract is going to be the last piece of major business for them officially this summer. Once he signs that contract, any future financial flexibility is gone. This is a...

Well, the future flexibility to sign players, they can certainly trade things. Okay, my point is this, the caps. space they have is a gift card with an expiration date. And the expiration date is this summer. Correct. The thing about it is just like when you trade a star player, because if you look at this and you think about the teams that have traded for a star player, if you look about the teams, the teams that have traded for a star player, frequently they're not ready to go right away. I know that there are circumstances where that's not true, where there's, you know, a lot in place. And that sort of some of that happened around the cap spike. But the same thing often happens

when you clear out cap space. The consequence of clearing out cap space is that you deplete your team. So just like we say that the heat are probably a year away maybe from recovering from everything they gave away in this deal, the Lakers clearing down their cap space,

you know, would require some recovery. So, I mean, yes, they promised Luca, you know, new bodies, new help, but that comes with consequences. The teams that are competing to win the championship are the teams that are either dodging the second apron barely or, you know, messing with the luxury tax because they've built out their rosters

and they have completed more adept teams. You don't really want to be a team that's got a bunch of salary cap space because it means you're not keeping your players. It means you don't love your roster. It means you don't have guys that you're paying a lot of money to them that are good. It's not always a good place to be. So as much as we talk about the Lakers cap space

being tied to LeBron James, it's also tied to Rui Hachamura, who unlike LeBron, can be a piece of the long-term outlook for the Lakers alongside Luca and Austin Rees. And look, man, there's going to be competition for Rui. He's got some leverage. I mean, you know, like Mike Wright reported, he's high on the list of potential full mid-level targets for the San Antonio Spurs. You know, there's other teams that are going to be interested in a 6-foot-8, 230 pound guy who his three-point percentage in the last three years is 42, 41, and 44, and is, you know, just early in his prime.

And so it's going to be fascinating to me to see how Rui is prioritized by the Lakers in this whole shuffle as they clearly are desperately seeking a long-term upgrade at center. All I'm going to say is I don't think LeBron James is the type to hurry up and wait. Well, one thing I'll say about LeBron, he's not desperate, okay? He has, he's going to have, he's going to have options. Especially if he's not worried about every dollar, which it sounds like he's not. Right. And look, if LeBron waits and all that's left is like the minimum market, okay. I mean, he'll be able to make his mortgage payments.

And whether that, you're like, look, if he goes to Cleveland, if he goes to Miami, you know, the warriors will be an option. Like, he will have plenty of options regardless. He'll be the most coveted 42-year-old in NBA history. I can assure you that. You don't see off that limb. By the way, Ruehachamur, the last three years, he's made 3193-pointers. It's a lot, especially for a guy that's, you know, not even been a full-time starter. He started a lot of those games.

He's not even a full-time starter. And he'll joke. He does that not getting touched the ball a whole lot. 43%. Like, you know, real talk. Like, as you said, a guy with size who can hit the three like that. Yeah. That's, that ain't nothing, boys.

No. And every playoff team can use a guy like that. And like, if the Lakers want to be a playoff team, you know, they got to replace that. So, all right, well. Rich people problems, Wendy. That's enough to chew on for 3.30 in the afternoon on a Sunday, I think. I want to, like, Jackson, I want to swear off doing emergency pods this week, but I don't think I can promise that. You can't, you can't, no, not this week.

McMahon is always, Vinny, McMahon is always about these emergency. he paused, he's like, always wants him. What is it with you in this existential feeling of doom? Isn't that a Bontim saying? Why do you feel like there's an existential feeling of doom with these podcasts? No, Wendy just wants to sleep, and I don't blame them. What's your get-up schedule this week, Wendy? It's heavy.

Yeah, so I don't blame them. I get it. I've got to do a few shifts of get-up this week. They're dipping into the, people ask me, like, what's my role on TV on these students? studios shows. I say I'm the Aaron Wiggins. I don't know if that. Now he's got more clearly defined role with the Hawks, but I was like Aaron Wiggins with the Thunder. Like, I feel like I'm pretty productive when I get a shot, but I'm not, sometimes I fall in and out of the

rotation. You guys are, uh... With all due respect, Aaron Wiggins, we've got to find a better comp for you. Wow. I know, I think it's good because sometimes I'm an eighth man, sometimes I'm a 12th man. It's just, you know, just the way it is. You know, you're Shea. And I tell you what... Yeah. Okay. I tell you what? Vinny, you've got you've got some Chet Holmgren tendencies about you. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I show up

baby. I don't disappear. Let's get that straight. And I have to go to Bristol. Hey, Chet was third team all-MBA this year buddy. Yeah, but he didn't be honored. But when it comes to the playoffs, when it came to a phantom showing up, he didn't play like a

phantom. I'll play like a phantom every time, baby. Don't don't let the Knicks fool you into thinking that I don't show up. I may show up sarcastically, but I show up. First and second round, Chet Holman was great.

West finals, I don't know. Would you give him a participation trophy for the West finals? I mean, he was, if everybody gets one,

he got one. McMahon, that was glorious. I love you guys. I don't know if I'm going to love you by Thursday, but I don't know.

I love you today. All right. We'll be with you all week. Lots of stuff to happen. And this is one of the busiest weeks in the NBA calendar. And then hopefully we can hand it off to Malika at Wimbledon and go away for a while. Actually, we got Summer League after that. All right.

Thank you to Mark Miles Tucker and our man, Jackson. Thank you to Vinnie and McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you probably sooner than later. Adios amigos.