Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Huge Announcement! + Big Mitchell Extension For Cavs & Brad Stevens Talks Brown Trade

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and newly special guest Tim Bontemps to congratulate him on his exciting new role with the Atlanta Hawks and thank him for all he has done for the show. Then, we break down Donovan Mitchell’s big extension for the Cavs and discuss if the money will make sense for Cleveland moving forward. Plus, does this impact the likelihood LeBron returns? Next, we react to Brad Stevens’ press conference responding to the Jaylen Brown trade including how we feel about the rationale they presented. Finally, our crew discusses the incredible performances for Darryn Peterson in Summer League before previewing the blockbuster battle between Peterson and Dybantsa on Thursday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome to the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday morning. Joining me from Salt Lake City, Utah, where he's covering the Salt Lake Summer League, which is the Darren Peterson show, is Ban McMahon. Howdy, Partners. Hey, listen, also the Kingston Fleming show, Cam Booser show, Dave Morrow show, the Atlanta Hawks in town, and hanging out. How about Zubi Edgeafor, the Atlanta Hawks with a 19 and 15 game? All right. How about it? What a great job drafting number 23 from the Atlanta Hawks.

Speaking of the Atlanta Hawks, what do we have here from, we can't say where he is because he is now an official member of a team and all information is secret. We would like to welcome from the Atlanta Hawks, Tim Bontemps. Hello, everybody. It's nice to be back. I believe Mr. Bontemps, you have some explaining to do. Where have you been? Where have you been? It's been the draft and free agency. My God, this is... Where have you been? I've been on garden leave.

I've been on garden leave. It's been quite a thing. I've just been sitting back. I've been watching the tweets from Ben McMahon about all the crazy goings on. I've been listening to all the pods. It's been great work. It's been relaxing. It's been fun.

I believe you have some news that you are announcing here on this lovely morning. You guys I'm explaining to do. Are you dumping us? What's going on here? You got all this swag on, all this gear? I don't know if I'm dumping you is the right word. I am unfortunately not going to be on the pot anymore, which people figured out over the last couple weeks because I am joining the Atlanta Hawks.

What in the world? Okay, this is awful. All right. Well, we have something we have something we must do here, Jackson. Fans, here are the winners and losers from the seismic Bontem's decision to move into an NBA front office. First, winners. The other 29 NBA teams will no longer have to fear the dreaded phrase, what were they thinking for almost every transaction they made.

Second, another winner, Brian Winhorst, who no longer will hear the cackley, no, that's not exactly the way it happened whenever he recalls a story. And finally, the biggest losers, loyal pod listeners, and poor band McMahon, because we may never hear the word jackass be used on the pod again. Good luck, bontemps. Uh, Michael Chusky. That's our man. One of the truly coolest things about the last couple of years is becoming friends of Mike Walschuski.

And I've come up to me at a game at the garden and say, hey, just want to introduce myself, I'm Mike Walshiewski. I'm a huge fan of the podcast. It's like, Mike. You are a legend. You don't need to introduce yourself. As you guys have all figured out, he's a wonderful guy. That was very cool. So thank you, Mike.

So do you want to explain to the folks, like, what exactly you'll be doing with the Hawks or at least give your, like, company man? You're the one who wrote the new story. I haven't read it yet. I'm assigned it. Strategic advisor, big basketball brain bond tips, the strategic advisor. That is my title. It will be a strategic advisor to Nancy Sala, who between he and the wrestler's family, I'm very appreciative of them giving me a chance to try something new.

Oh, a little brown-nows-in. I like that because it's up to the billionaire, something you and Wendy have always been good at. Listen, I do have, I have an announcement to make. I am still team ESPN. Don't you worry. However, I haven't cleared this with our bosses yet, but I did land a consulting gig with the Atlanta Hawks. So Bon Timps and I are still teammates.

I'm out here. I'm musing around as you do at Summer League, and I'm chatting up Ansi. I'm chatting up Quinn Snyder. And, you know, I did inform them that nobody in the world is better at telling Bon Timps to shut the bleep up than me. And so. I am, there's the USWB, well, I am the SUBC, shut up, Bont-Tims consultant.

Oh, there you go. And fly me down on a case-by-case basis when Bont-M is getting to be the most annoying, fly me down, put me up, pay me good money to come in there and say, Bon-Tim, shut the hell up. So this has worked out well for me as well. There you go. But real talk here, it's all fun in games, but real talk, congratulations. Tim, you know, obviously the people who interact with us or read your, have read your stuff over the

decades, I guess you're getting old, sorry. They're all getting old. They know, they know what insight that you bring or don't bring. But I think one of the things is over the years, behind the scenes, you know, Bontemps has really gained a lot of trust within the NBA. You know, seriously, I'm being serious. And I remember I was at the lottery, which is what in mid-May, and I was having breakfast with our boss at ESPN, Dane Beaver's.

And I was saying, you know, there could come a day when we lose bontempts to the NBA because there are a number of people who I've talked to. Like, believe it or not, McMahon, I mean, I was floored when I, when it's happened. But there have been times where I will talk to the executives and they'll be like, bond tempts this and bond tempts that in a good way, like where they are like very impressed with him. And not for conversations on the pub, but for conversations that happened privately. And so believe it or not, I believed for a while that we were going to lose Tim at some point to an NBA team. I did not know. Another discovery. Yes. Exactly. Mark it on the board. Mark it on the board. And I told my boss, I was like,

you know, hey, we may lose him at some point. And I think my boss could not believe it. And then when this developed over the last few weeks, he was like, wow, I couldn't believe it. But in all reality, you know, you may think I'm joking. You may think I'm wrong. But if it wasn't the Hawks, it was going to be somebody else. There were rumors about him coming to the Mavericks at one point. I actually called Bon Tim. So I said, hey, we're going to be neighbors. But Tim, this is something that you've been interested in doing for a while, right? Yeah. I mean, it's something I've thought about for a while but you know it's i never knew if i'd have a chance to do it or if the right thing would come along and um you know i'm just i'm very appreciative of oncy to give me a chance to to try to help

a little bit and it's an awesome organization got a lot of long time friends there you know it's a really cool opportunity you know i i wasn't going to leave i i had a dream job at esbn doing this pod with you guys i certainly wasn't trying to go anywhere i was only going to leave if it was a really awesome thing that came up and, you know, I got very fortunate that this is a very cool thing. And so we're going to move to Atlanta and change a lot of stuff up and have some more space for the Cinderblock to run around and try to help the O'Hawks win a couple games. Listen, I've told you this. You got to scout out high school football programs as your house on me.

You got to get them in a good one. The kids got a right tackle potential. That was the first thing McMahon said to me was I have to look for high school football programs for the Cinderblock, who is 14 months old this week. I said, I probably got a little bit of time. The good ones. You got to cut. Hey, listen, you're going to be in the South.

Yeah, the best high school football programs, it really starts the pee-wee level. It, you know, it flows up. So I'm just telling you, get them in the program early. Now, also, I just got to be honest with, there's the worst part about this. Honestly, the worst part about it's not losing Bon Temps. The word part about it is this.

Bond Tim's always thought that he had the biggest basketball brain on this podcast. And damn it, Wendy, this kind of, he can look at this and say it proves him right. Big old Bond Tim's basketball brain. He's getting paid massive money now, somebody just to tap that brain. So I hate to admit it, but damn it, he has one on it. So he can always hold over our heads. Now, I do, I do, I just, I've got this vision, you know, it's like near the trade deadline or whatever. and there's like a very serious strategic meeting and, you know,

auntie's chiming in and Quinn's chiming in and then Bontas is chiming in. The guy in charge is chiming in. Yeah, Auntie's leading it and Quinn's time. And Bontens and, you know, midsense. What are we doing here? This is a gong show. We don't need to be focused on this. This is what we need to be focused on.

I just, I look forward to the point. I don't think it will quite go like that. We're not trading. for that bozo. We're going to trade for that bozo over there. Here's my advice. Yeah, so, yeah, he's studying the CBA. He's breaking down game film.

It's going to summer week. Go to Las Vegas. Go to hang out with the squad in Las Vegas. I unfortunately did not get hang out with McBain in Salt Lake City. That was a disappointment. Hey, that's okay. We've got some friends with another team's front office here who've refused to hang out in Salt Lake City as well.

So. Maybe that's a you problem. I don't know. Well, listen, people get all stuffy and serious as they get, you know, higher up the ranks. Yeah, here's like like, like Bon Temps. I know. Yeah. So anyway, thank you so much for your contributions to growing the pod over the years.

Before it was even called the Hoop Collective. And when Bon Temps was at the Washington Post, he would come on. If any of you. I think it came out at the New York Post many, many, many years ago. Oh, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. We were completely undisciplined back then, back before Jackson was in our lives to keep us on the straight and arrow. And so, you know, over a decade, right?

Wouldn't you say, Tim, over a decade? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And so, you know, we're thrilled for you. We're thrilled and appreciative. And by the way, like, hey, McMahon, we lost Pelton to the Houston comments. I guess they're the Connecticut Sun for the moment. We lost, but we lose Pelton to the WMBA front office.

We've lost bond temps to the Atlanta Hawks front office. I'm playing defense on Jackson. I mean, yeah, and listen, I hope we can keep Bobby, but Bobby is big brain Bobby, Bobby Money Marks. He's always going to be in demand. Yeah, no. Don't leave me, McMahon. I was going to say, I don't think there's much of a threat.

Although I have informed, I have informed people. You know, I've informed people in numerous front offices. I say, you know, keep an eye on the hawks. Because if they win, there's a proven path. That's right. I'll hire somebody from the Hoop Collective. That's all you need. That's all you need.

All right. Well, thank you so much for everything, Tim. We're very pushing, I'm very excited for you. And, hey, listen, McMahon, now we can, like, take them to dinner and call it a source dinner. Absolutely. This is also the most times that Brian has called me, Tim, I think, combined in my I just think it's appropriate. I keep getting confused.

It's more personal, right? It's more personal. Well, listen, I, uh, this podcast is easily the thing I'm most proud of in my entire career and it's been awesome to see what we've been able to grow it into and the number of people that have come up to all of us at various games and obviously at the live shows and all these different things and, and how much it's been to people. It's been very cool. And, uh, the thing that I, I've always found funny.

about the online discourse about the pot in particular, which, as you guys know, my wife likes to send me all the negative things that people say about me on the internet just to make sure that I don't ever feel good about myself. The idea that we don't get along in some form or fashion has always been very funny, given the three of us talk pretty much all day, every day,

and our families are all friends. So the thing I'm saddest about is leaving this and leaving you guys and leaving Jackson, but you guys all be quite fine, probably in the long run better off. And I'll be a very loyal listener and excited to see where things go as you guys continue to grow this thing. But it's been awesome to be a part of it. And I'll still be part of it as a listener and watch and see what you guys do. Something tells me he's going to be a loyal commentator as well.

We've got to shut down these group checks, McMahon. He'll let us know what he's thinking. He just can't interrupt in real time But he'll let us know No, no That's part of the fun We'll still be We'll still be talking

We'll still be talking all the time But the pod's been through I mean hell Since in the time we've done the podcast I mean, band has gotten married again Brian and I both have kids Jackson's going to get married Now engaged

Yeah we'll see you Jackson's wedding That's the next time we'll see you Yeah you won't see me at all before then I'm sure He'll be lurking in the shadows At Hodge's games We'll have to know

It'll be hiding Grannies. All right. Well, before we get back to real business here talking about the NBA because we're in flagrant violation

of a core of the podcast here. I mean, we're talking about the NBA kind of. Yeah, kind of. Is the NBA now, baby. Yeah. I will say,

the NBA now. Let's relax with that. All right, bontempts, watch this. Oh, wow. Hello, welcome with the Hoop Collective podcast. Hello, welcome.

Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective Podcast. The Hoop Collective podcast, we, we, we, we talk about the NBA. Wow, this is quite a smash cut. Joining us from New York City, it's Tim Bond Temps. Hello, everybody. Say hello to New York City to Tim Bon Temps. Tim Bon Tems. Tim Bon Tems, native New Yorker, New York Native, I can call you New York Native.

Sure, yeah. From New York City, Tim Bon Tems. Howdy, this is prime time for Bon Tims. You know, he's got to be in studio. and the spotlight. The old USWBs, time to shine, baby. The wet blanket mid-season form. That's who he is.

And I like Mike a lot, but I still say it was somewhat ridiculous. Sleeping. You see me now? Sorry. Yes. Like that sounds like a broads. Do you hear me now? Big Man just disappeared and was a black screen.

And I hope they don't edit it out. I wanted to stay in. I just want the record. Of course it's not going to get edited out. Come on. You know, it's Gabe Vinson and Mo Gay and, oh, you got to zoom in on McBan's face. There we go. This thing confuses the hell out of me.

What a good looking guy. And McBan is once again, not going to understand what the hell is happening with technology. Heavens de Betsy. It's subjective to people who understand what the holiday saw. We got the camera moving. You know how Shay wanted like the defining quote for Shay is he says, consistent. Oh, this is great. And everything that I do, it's like an ethos. It's like a personal mission. And it's so

true. Bon Temps, you can always count on him to be Bon Temps. That's not a compliment. That's very cool. I'm always better dressed than all of you guys. Always. I got to tell you, I'm proud of a lot of the work I've done in my career, but nothing more so than coin in the USWB. Your and soaked wet blanket. You know, somebody came up to me at the live show. in New York and said, hey, I just want to thank you guys. You introduced me to chat GPT. The first time I ever used chat GPT was to ask it what USWB meant. And I said, did it know?

Urid soaked wet blanket? He goes, yes, it did know. That's me introducing people to technology. There you go. Yes. You and McGoot, you are synonymous for technology. you, buddy. There's no question about that. All right, Timbontemps, signing

off. Appreciate it. Go find some players to sign and draft and trade for. Okay, I'll see what I can do. More hoop collective podcast after this. All right, now we got that piece of business out of the way, McMahon. We can get down to real talk

here. Now that we've got the most important transaction of the NBA offseason out of the way. I think it's only appropriate we follow up here with Cavs Corner. Of course. So, Really rub it in that he doesn't get to do this anymore. No kidding. I wonder, what do you think his report to the Hawks is about Donovan Mitchell signing a four-year,

$270 million contract extension with the Cavs on the first day he's eligible on Tuesday? Oh, this is a gong show. You know, look, it's a tough spot for the Cavs, honestly, because Donovan Mitchell's the face of your franchise. He's an all-MBA player. Like, you know, in one sense, him committing to you for. four years is a major win. But we just saw how rough the market was

for Jaylon Brown in large part because of how much salary he made. And I'm looking for one of the quotes that a GM gave me, but essentially it was, and look, the analytics are more friendly to Donovan. He's not as good a defense player.

But, you know, one of the GMs basically said, like, in terms of this kind of money, you've got to be a generational talent. And this guy didn't think Jaylon Brown was close to that, but he essentially said when you get into like the $70 million range, which is

obviously where this is, there might only be a couple of players in the league that are worth that kind of money. And so there is some major risk involved here, especially when you've got Evan Mowley making 50 plus a year. Right. So this is a, you know, the calves are viewing this is a huge triumph and

for a couple of different reasons. Number one, like, you know, I'm not saying that the Utah Jazz 100% believed this. But when they structured the trade, when they made the deal, which was, I think, five years ago now, they backloaded the picks, that they, they pushed the picks out. They could get the farthest out. I think the farthest one out is 2029 unprotected pick. And there were swaps in there, too. And I think the purpose was, is that the jazz, you know, I'm not saying they, again, I'm not projecting, like I know what the jazz are thinking. But when the jazz traded him, they were like, you know,

he may not be there. Yes. 29 or 2729 because they weren't sure he would want to stay in Utah. It was part of the impetus for trading him. And so for the Cavs to... They knew he didn't want to stay in Utah. Well, yeah. I mean, their actions said that they didn't think he was going to stay. So the fact that Donov has now signed two extensions and basically cementing that the Cavs investment in the draft assets are, you know, he's been all NBA two years in a row, first team last year, second team this year. They're signing, I believe the second best. player in franchise history to a contract extension that will carry him through his prime, that is an absolute victory for them. It is going to be a lot of money by the fourth year of it when he's, I think, 33 or 34, it's going to be $75 million. $75.5.5 for counting. But then there's the other side of it, which is getting him to do it this summer was not something they 100% expected. Now, Donovan never said anything except for he never even.

gave a syllable that indicated he wasn't happy in Cleveland. But he never did really with Utah either, right? No, it was pretty well known. He wasn't happy in Utah. Yeah, but he never said anything. He didn't say it out loud, but it was not a secret. Anyway, my point is, just because he didn't say anything, you know, you back it up with actions, right? And so when he signed his last extension, his first extension in Cleveland, he signed it for a year shorter than he could have.

And it basically bought the Cavs two years. It looked like it was a four-year extension, really was a two-year extension. And it put them in this, and it was designed for exact reason. It put them in this bit of an awkward spot because now Donovan is one year away from being a 10-year veteran. And if he had signed a new extension at 10 years, he could have gotten $80 million guaranteed more than this summer. And it put him in the perfect spot to protect him because he had this year under contract and next season as a player option. And so if he had, you know, had an injury or something, he always had the player option as protection. But it put him in a position where he could re-up his contract at year 10.

And so it really doesn't make financial sense for him to extend this summer. And you're seeing the same thing play out with Joker in Denver. And, you know, he, I don't forget, wherever Serbia was playing, but, you know, Joker basically said yesterday after a World Cup qualifying game, you know, I'm going to see. stay in Denver, but I'm going to sign next year. And the reason there, as McManerman wrote, is he can do four years 278 now, or he can do five years, 359 and a half next year. So, you know, Joker is often like, hey, let's maximize the money. And while Donovan's signing a max extension, by signing it now, he isn't maximizing the money. Right. And so, you know, Yokic has multiple times said, I'm a Denver nugget for life. And if you're, if you're going to trust anybody,

in all the professional sports, I don't know here you're going to trust more than Nikoliyokic. However, you know, he will be an unrestricted free agent next summer like that. You will exist this year, going through this year,

knowing that if things go terribly sideways, that Yokic will be an unrestricted free agent. I don't think the nuggets are going to, you know, be losing sleepover. Although I keep it in mind as I was trying to dump salary, which, you know, the nuggets haven't resigned free agents this offseason,

but they haven't dumped any, salary yet. So, you know, that's, that's interesting. That's food for thought. But I think the thing with Donovan would be the same thing. Like, Donovan has said nothing but positive things. I don't think the cows would have operated this year, like, totally afraid he was going to leave. But, you know, they would have to protect themselves in certain ways. And, you know, I'm not sure if Donovan wasn't 100% fully committed, whether you could make every decision expecting him to be there. Like, I'm not saying you trade him,

but I'm saying, like, was you did your long range planning. Like, for example, like, people were talking about, you know, the idea of trading Evan Mobley. What I was saying in Cleveland was, I don't think you could even entertain the idea

of trading Evan Mobley unless Donovan was under long-term contract because if Don had something happened with Donovan, Evan would have to be your franchise player. Nor am I saying now they can trade him. I'm just saying, like, I think they had to operate that way. So Donovan giving the Cavs this extension now, I agree, McMahon, is a level of risk because you're entering into a contract with a guy where this contract's going to be all in his 30s.

And, you know, you worry about trapping yourself, absolutely. But I also think that him doing this now keeps him from getting, because, you know, if he has another All-MBA year, what are they not going to sign him in a year? Right. So they would have been further committed to more money a year ago. No. I mean, the Cavs had to sign this deal. And they have to celebrate it. And it's something worth celebrating.

And look, the challenge really is, one, how much luxury tax is Dan Gilbert going to be willing to pay as you're building out this roster? And then, two, just the challenge is, you know, the handcuffs that come in place with a contract this big on your books as you build out the roster, you know. And they've been one of, if not the most expensive team in the league. I mean, one way you can really get around some of these things is if you sign a perennial All-Star to a minimum contract, which the Cavaliers might have a chance to do. Like, that helps, you know, manage the books when the team gets really expensive. But I think that's probably going to be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I don't think that's something you can pull off. Yeah.

If you can get two All-Stars where one guy makes $60 million and one guy makes $4 million and you get your average down to $32.5 million. or whatever it is for two all-stars. That's good efficiency in your front office. So, yeah, well, obviously, that's what the Cavs fans have been waiting with bated breath for a LeBron decision. I listened to a radio appearance by a caller yesterday who worked at a golf store, not far from LeBron's house. And he gave a blow-by-blow of LeBron's hour-long visit to the golf store to get his clubs re-gripped. Okay. on ESPN Cleveland

radio. Was there a tell during that visit? Was there a... That's the thing. I mean, they were mining it, you know,

they were mining it looking for a tell, you know. His son, Brani was with him and he borrowed a three wood, apparently, and with a promise

to return it. And like, they're, they're leaning into the possibility that that borrowing of the three was an indication that he's planning on being there.

They say, like, he'll return it during training camp? You know, exactly. So this is, so the Cleveland fans are like, you know, living and dying, you know, waiting for this news.

And then all of a sudden this pops into their lap. And this, you know, was the first day that Donovan could extend that he does on the first day. So it's a, it's a, I think it could be viewed as really hugely generally positive. And like with any contract, you ask yourself the question, could you trade it today? Could you trade Donovan Mitchell? And I believe the answer is yes. Yeah, I think you could. I think that it's going to be really hard moving forward to get massive return on these kind of contracts in trades.

Obviously, they didn't sign it to trade it, but I'll put it like this. I think it's a hell of a lot more tradable than, oh, the $212 million deal that Tray Young signed. I mean, I've been under fire for that for saying how I didn't think that was a tradable contract. So I'll let you say that. I'm just telling you, like obviously there's a lot of scouts. folks out here at Salt Lake City Summer League and I've had a lot of people just be like, what in the world where the Wizards doing? And there's a lot of like, who is this mystery team that was willing to max them out? But that's neither here nor there. Yeah. Well, anyway, so we'll see

what happens with LeBron. For all I know before this podcast post will be news. I don't know. Before we move on, I do think we should talk about Brad Stevens having a press conference with Bill Chisham, the Celtics governor. That happened on Monday afternoon. And, you know, know, Brad, you know, Brad doesn't speak to the media very often. And when he does speak to the media, he's very disciplined and very matter of fact. He is, certainly it's the way he has always been. And I think for a situation like this, it's sort of perfect because he's, he's not going to come out and be fiery. He's not going to be Pat Riley. He's going to come out and, you know, have his set of talking points and stick to them. and, you know, I don't think he was 100% being, I mean, by the way, they sat there and took, he and Bill Chisholm took question after question after question.

They let the media, like, come and ask us everything. And, you know, they only ended the press conference when there was, basically, they were answering the same question again and again. So they, like, were very responsible in coming out, doing it. Like, I think that was good. And they stuck to their script, which was basically that they don't know. know if this trade is going to work for them or not. I think they feel a little stronger about it. They were willing to say. But I mean, they were trying to be very respectful, Jalen. I'm not, I don't know if Jalen Brown felt they were respectful, but they were like, you know, we're not sure. We felt like we

had to do this. And he kept saying, McMahon, he kept saying for optionality. I mean, look, you were saying they weren't 100% what? I don't think they were 100% saying why they did it. Like they made it sound like this was a real tough call. They were on the fence. I mean, I'm sure it was a tough call. But he said he lost sleep over what the reaction would be. I'm not, you know, I think, I think they feel confident in their decision. I mean, there were a little bit full of crap, if we're just want to be blunt and direct here.

And they were full of crap when they acted like the relationship with Jaylon Brown didn't deteriorate and wasn't a factor in this decision. I mean, it was a driving force in the decision. You can't tell me both that money didn't matter and it wasn't about. any of that stuff. Now, I believe the money part because you didn't really save money right away on this deal. And by the way, this deal ultimately is going to be judged by what are you able to flip Paul George's expiring contract next year plus a bunch of picks into. Right. Well, he just kept saying optionality. Right. And so that's the optionality. But again, not only the why now as far as why except that return on July 1st is a legitimate question. But like, there's no other explanation for why now. now in terms of doing it before next season, other than you just felt like the relationship with Jalen Brown

reached a point of no return. And look, that doesn't mean it's that Jalen Brown did something wrong. I don't know exactly what went wrong. I just know it reached a point where the Celtics felt like they absolutely had to trade Jalen Brown. Well, and he got asked directly,

like, you know, how can you talk about, you know, money because Paul George and, and Jalen Brown make about the same amount. of money. And although Bobby Marks reported yesterday that Paul George waived his trade kicker, which would have been, I think, like, 3.9 million. Now the, that's a whole of bronze salary. That's right. That's exactly what it was. The Sixers would have had to pay that, the actual

write the check, but it would have hit the Celtics books. The Celtics would have had to pay more. Right. It would have been like, it would have cut their space under the apron or whatever. to less and it would have been, you know, and it would have been split over the two years. So it's only two million dollars, but would have split their thing like, you know, like that. So that's, that's interesting that Paul, I mean, that is, we sort of see that from time to time. Um, people do that. Usually they do that when they're, um, very happy with, they're not very happy, but certainly it's like sort of a tacit acknowledgement of an approval of the trade. Like, they're going to trade you

anyway. And so he's like, yeah, well, I'll give up this four million bucks. I don't, I don't want this four million bucks to hold up the trade. So I'll, I'll do that. It kind of, I don't think Paul is probably upset that it's out there because it kind of is an indication to the Celtics. Like, you know, I'm, I'm happy to be here. But I think the reaction, you know, I think, you know, the reaction has been what it's been in Boston that they didn't get enough for it. And basically Brad was like, well, we have to see. We don't know yet. And so we'll see, you know, not only what they could get for Paul George, or maybe if Paul George produced. is at a good level next to Tatum,

or what they do with the draft assets that they got, the picks and the swabs. Again, how Jay and Brown performs is going to be, and how Philly, and not only how he performs, because part of the whole thing is Brown's numbers versus, you know, the perceived impact based on analytics. But, like, how he impacts the Sixers' success is going to be a major factor in how this trade is judged.

And then long term, it is going to be judging, okay, the optionality, what's that lead to? Who is Jason Tatum's long time running mate? It's not going to be Paul George, obviously, who's 36 years old and plays about 36 games a year. So what do you turn that into? And Paul George, hey, I agree. He could be a very good role player next year for the Celtics if he can stay healthy. Very good role players don't make $55 million, or at least you hope not. So what do they do with it?

But, you know, the press conference, I respect that they sat up there and they answered all the questions. And it's kind of a no-win situation because if you're honest, then it's a bad look because it might be, it's going to be viewed as you're kind of bad mouthing a guy on his way out the door because there's no way to say it. And there's no way to say it other than we felt like we had to move on from Jalen Brown. Like, that's what happened, but saying that sounds terrible.

So, you know, I just, it was a good job of a penalty kill press commerce by Brad Stevens. I like that. That's good. Very hockey of you. It's most hockey allowed to talk. So I just say two things about the Celtics. One, they have these draft picks now. And the pick slash swap that they got is.

so confusing. I read it three times and I can't understand it. So I'm just sort of, it's like it involves two other picks and, and, and. You're talking about the clippers. It's the clippers and Sixers pick. And it's like, I think the short version is if it falls below 17, they get the pick out right. And if it's higher than that, it's a swap. Right. And it's like one through eight protected on the field. The reason that it's so complicated. because it's two different picks that they can get plus a swap right involved is because nobody really knows where picks are going to fall in the lottery. Like, you know, it's one thing if you're, if you've got the pick or the swap of a team that you know is rebuilding or is on like a two or three or runway, like, you know, you could feel like, you could feel like, oh, that's, that's, we have a pretty good chance of getting a good pick there. Like, for example, the clippers

look like they're in the midst of a retrofit of a rebuild or whatever. Having a clippers pick in the next couple of years is not necessarily bad business. It could be good. But, on the other hand,

you don't know where the lottery is and maybe the Celtics finish in the play in and end up with a better pick than the clippers who have a worse record. Do you want me to read the language? No, I don't. I actually don't. Because there's the Spurs swap in there. So if it's a swap, right, it's probably going to be the Spurs pig going to Philly.

There is a lot going on here. Like I said, there's, okay. So the other thing I'm going to say is Boston has two things to watch. Number one, they have the Amphrony Simon's trade exception. I mean, yeah, trade exception, which I think is around $27 million. They have these extra picks. They could use that trade exception to acquire a player with their picks or somebody else picks. They don't have to use it now.

It doesn't expire until midseason when a year from the deal. I'm not even sure where they're going to end up under the aprons. They may not even do that. However, because they use the full mid-level on Mitchell Robinson, they're hard-capped at the first apron. So I'm not saying they're going to go out there and trade for a star player in the next 10 minutes, but just know that that exists. The second thing to keep an eye on is that Peyton Pritchard is extension eligible.

And he is on an extremely attractive contract, seven and a half this year, $8 million, $8.5. next year. He is 29 years old. I don't think you're necessarily want to give him a four-year extension, unless it's really good money. But, you know, whether or not they extend Peyton. Yeah, it's one of the most effective ISO scores in the league last year,

and he's much more important now than he was, you know, than he was a few months ago. Well, I expect them part of this, I think, is they're going to boost, even boost Peyton Pritchard's role even more. and build out more for him. And so it probably makes, if you think that you're going to build an even bigger role for Peyton Pritchard,

it makes sense to sign him now before he baby has even a bigger season than he did a year ago. So, I mean, part of the calculus that the Celtics are making is that Paul George can deliver numbers that alongside Tatum still are very efficient and maybe even be comparable to the efficiency of J.L. Not better than, but comparable to the efficiency.

efficiency and that boosting Peyton Pritchard's role will uh you know boosting Payton Pritcher's role boosting Baylor Shireman's role will fill the gaps at a vastly lower uh cost um and they're clearly banking on Hugo Gonzalez developing into a big time player and he was he was the bigger sticking point with the bucks than Baylor Shireman was well if I were the bucks I'd have been asked for Peyton Pritchard which I think they did discuss at one point But from what I understand, what the Bucks wanted was more than what has been reported. It wasn't just Hugo Gonzalez and Getsheedianas. I think they were asking for more draft capital and maybe more other players.

But that's moot. So speaking of the jazz, I think we're going to be talking about the jazz a lot more. And we're not going to talk about their tanking moves. We talked about them a lot last year. We'll be jazz fans will enjoy our jazz. coverage a lot more. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Okay, so look, caveats, Summer League, you know, we don't overreact to Summer League.

You know, being bad in Summer League is often more predicted than predictive than being good. All of that said, Darren Peterson, my God. extraordinarily impressive McMahon, the two games he's played. I don't think he's playing to play tonight against the Thunder. So I think this will be it for Salt Lake. Before I talk about what I saw, you were there down at the University of Utah.

What did you see? Listen, man, there's a reason why teams have taken the strategic route that the Jazz did in recent years. and it's to get a dude. And Darren Peterson is a D-O-O-D. He is. And, you know, like you said, look, you don't want to overreact to somebody, blah, blah, blah.

Wendy, I'm sitting here watching these games. I'm sitting down with the scouts. Right. And I'm watching the games with grizzled scouts, with guys who've been in the league for 20, 25, 30 years. They're raving about this game. They're telling me they think he has like scoring leader type of potential. They're raving about the way that he's directing traffic, that the reeds that he's making, the poise he's playing with, the passes that he's making.

And honestly, like the scoring thing, that's not a surprise because that's the stuff you heard the most about, his potential just to be an extremely explosive score. You know, he had a 12 assist two turnover performance against the Grizzies, and he's being guarded a lot by Cedric Howard. It wasn't like it was, you know, like it was a really strong summer league lineup that the Grizzies are throwing out there with Cedric Coward and, you know, Boozer. But Coward was spent a lot of time guarding him. Coward's a very good wing defender already in the NBA. And Peterson was completely unbothered by that, you know, 25 points on 15 shots.

Like I said, 12 assists. And a lot of the assists are where he's manipulating the defense and making the reads. And he's making tough passes that, you know, as guys said, like, only the really good players can make that read and that pass and did it on multiple occasions. And look, there was almost a full house. It's at the University of Utah's campus. Yeah, it was like 9,000 fans I saw. Yeah. Which, I mean, why wouldn't they come see Darren Peterson?

Yeah. It was almost a full house, very excited. And look, man, it's been a rough few years for the jazz. Like, that rebuild was not enjoyable. They didn't have a lottery luck until finally they did. And they got it at a good time because this is the kind of guy who has the potential to be a face of the franchise. And he's not like a loud guy. And I think it can come across as a loof because he's not like.

Oh, he's loud with his game. Yeah, he's loud with his game. But he is excited about being here. He's made that clear. And then when he knows, something else that's been very interesting is just how much of an investment, Keante George in particular, has made in trying to develop a relationship and a partnership. It's a good point. He's been at all the, like, workouts and stuff, right?

All the workouts, all the practice. And like, look, you got Jared Jackson, Jr., Isaiah Collier, you know, Bryce since a ball. Like, you know, you've got several jazz players sitting front row. at the games. But Kianti... Yeah, they were reacting. I saw Jaron Jackson on his feet while I've foreseen some of these baskets.

Yeah. And he scores from all three levels, too, by the way. But Kianti, George, as you said, he's been in all the workouts. He's been on all the practices. He's been around so much he's going to be on the bench as an assistant coach, a volunteer assistant coach, can't get paid. There'd be some potential salary cap violations there. What do you think the salary for a summer league coach is?

Do you think it's worth his time? Zero is what it is here. Yeah. You get per diem. That's basically what you get. Yeah. And, but, you know, he's going to be sitting on the bench and the, in their summer league or Vegas similarly go open, I should say, when it's ace, or I'm sorry, AJ DeBanza, against J.M. Peterson 1 versus 2, Wizards versus Jazz. Oh, by the way, I do, I tangent, quick tangent here.

You know, I've been telling you, I didn't think that an extension would be. forthcoming for Keante George. I was informed that, hey, there's a little bit more optimism about that possibly happening than there had been, you know, even a week or two ago. That there's a chance that there could be a meeting in the middle. But Keante's obviously very excited about the here now and the future of the jazz. So is Darren Peterson, definitely Will Hardy. I'm excited about the future of the jazz.

Yeah. You know, after a rough few years, there's legitimate reason to be excited. Doesn't mean they're a playoff team next year, but there's legitimate reason to be excited here for the first time in a while. We have got to get them on national TV. We've got to get them in the, and we just, they've got to be on the list. Well, you know how it is with rookies. Early on, the high rookies, they'll have a few games early on. And then, you know, the later season stuff, a lot of that's going to depend on how they play. You know, there's with teams being flexed in and out. But he's a very, I mean, he's an exciting talent. There's no question about that.

Yeah. Well, you've said essentially the same thing, but the executives that I've talked to have been in Salt Lake this week. They use the word presence, the presence that Peterson has out there beyond his years, the how he, you know, you're using the word poise. It's roughly the same thing. But like, does it look, you know, doesn't look out of sorts. doesn't look, you know, overwhelmed by the moment. And one of the things that I like... Doesn't get up to hear a lot.

Yes. Obviously, the whole offensive package. He's got the whole offensive game. He's got an NBA ready offensive game. As you mentioned, the three-level scoring, step-back game, comes off the pick and rolls, all of those things, like, you know, right out of the gate the man is going to score.

One of the things that I, you know, and did you go to his post-game presser on my, Monday night? I didn't, but I listened to the whole thing. Okay. So he was asked and he was talked about how, you know, it was sort of a big game for Cameron Boozer, who was drafted a pick behind him. And by the way, Boozer, you know, the thing that has impressed me for Boozer this week, McMahon, is how many threes he's hitting?

No, his three-point shot looks really good. Yeah, he had four out of five. He's hit, I think he's hit maybe seven the two games or something like that. And now, honestly, like he's hit a couple tough turnarounds off dribble like Boozer's going to be a really, really good offensive player. Anyway, he was asked about the matchup, you know, playing against Boozer. And he's, you know, Peter, I'm summarizing what he said. That, you know, he's like, I knew he would feel a certain way because I was picked right in front of him.

And he goes, I feel a certain way because he was picked right behind me. And basically, and he smiled when he said it, but I could see in his eyes that there was a little bit of edge. Basically, he was saying, you know, when there was a guy picked next to me, like, there's going to be edge in that game. Although he tried to, I asked him, I sat down with him and Will Hardy today for a story that'll run on Thursday. I think Jackson's actually going to put together a little video package off it for the YouTube's. Okay. But I asked him about the matchup with DeBonson.

That's what I'm getting at. Yeah, and he tried to downplay it. Of course he did. Come on now. But what about, so here's what I'm saying. And again, like, we were doing NBA today. what we did, I did NBA today today. You did, you were on two.

And they were talking about, they really wanted to start talking about the game on Thursday. And I kind of talked to producers out of it. I was like, hey, let's, you know, this is literally the first week of Summer League. Let's not hype this up too much or whatever. But I think Peterson is in a position here to do really well because he'll have played a couple of games.

And he won't play tonight. Right. None of the high picks are playing tonight. because, you know, back-to-back in Summer League going to Vegas doesn't make any sense, obviously. But, and look, he probably won't play a whole lot in Vegas. You know, he'll probably be shut down pretty early in Vegas. But look, man. He's going to play Thursday.

Yeah, doesn't mean anything in the long run, no. But is it a showcase? Is it on national TV? Right. You know, he felt like he was the best player in the draft. Like, it's a chance to. Yeah, he's had more time with his team with whatever, you know, whatever chemistry you can get with the Summer League team.

And he's going to be totally inspired to, to like make a little statement on Thursday. And he openly admitted he thinks about these type of things. You know, I'm still very much learning. You know, I don't have the bandwidth. You guys know, I don't have the bandwidth to watch college basketball. I saw him very little. Of course, I saw highlights.

But I've watched the last, most of the last two games. And I am extraordinarily impressed. Yeah, he's going to come in. He will step into the league as a big time score. I think it's a really good situation that he's going to be part of a, one of the more dynamic backcorts in the league where he will, like he will have the ball in his hands a lot, but it's not like the weight of the world's on his shoulders.

And there's going to be good spacing. Like Nerkich is an elite screener, maybe the best screen in the league right up there. Now, there's other flaws for him, obviously, but he can screen. He's a right tackle. There ain't no doubt about that. And then, you know,

Jaron Jackson Jr.'s approved the score who can shoot us. Obviously the same thing with Larry Mark. Like, he's stepping into a good situation. Now, Will Hart is really going to be challenging him to produce on the defensive end. And he thinks he's got like really good defense potentially, six, five, six. Long arms. Yeah, 200 pounds, long arms, strong, obviously a good athlete. And so Will is really challenging him on the defensive end.

And it kind of, there's this funny thing. So Will is basically saying, you know, it's on me to earn his trust, but I'm going to be coached him hard, including a film session. the morning after going play by play through his summer league debut. And I asked like, what were you really emphasizing? He said there's a lot of stuff on the defensive end. And they've got this call in their, you know, in their language, a defensive call, Raven. And it's because Will Hardy grew up a Ravens fan.

And I got to follow up with him on exactly what the thing is. But it's a shout out to Ed Reed. Darren Peterson. who, by the way, is exactly one year younger than my older daughter, which, boy, did that make me feel old. But this made Will feel old. Darren Peterson had no idea who Ed Reed was. That's disappointing because his brother is a star football player. Well, and he is a, he said, I grew up a Bengals fan.

I said, well, Ed Reed had a ton of picks against the Bengals. I can assure you that. But then, Wendy, I looked it up. This kid was five years old when Ed Reed played his last down for the Baltimore region. I'm actually kidding. It's fine. but I actually am very impressed with what I just learned that he's a Bengals fan from Northeast Ohio. And if I was raising a child in Northeast Ohio, I wouldn't let him be a Browns fan either.

Yeah. I would definitely say, I would have said Steelers, but I'll go with Bengals. Bengals are a little harder to root for. The organizations, you know, the quality of the Steelers organization. Of course. Brother, listen, the Bengals at least have had quarterbacks. So I'm saying much prefer the Brown, the Bengals organization than the Brown. Oh, I think you said the Bengals were harder to root for.

No, they're harder than the Steelers. Like I was, I would say, if I was raising my son in Northeast Ohio, I would push him away from the Browns towards the Steelers. You raised your son to be a bandwagon hopper. I didn't raise him that way. That's what he's choosing to do. He's changed the path of least resistance. Yeah, but in his defense, he's had a Holland jersey from Man City for years. There you go.

America is discovering Erling Holland, you know. But anyway, I respect that he, he said, I'm not rooting for the Browns. I'm going to go with the Bengals. I respect that. Well, his brother, in case you didn't know. Will ran some Raven stuff down his throat because he stopped down the film session and got on YouTube. It's like, you will see some Ed Reed highlights. Well, Ed Reed's a good guy to study for a lot of different reasons.

You know his brother, Darren's brother, Daryl Jr. Daryl the second or Daryl Jr., I'm not sure. played at Wisconsin, an edge, an edge. Is that a lineman or is that a linebacker, an edge McMahon? Edge is a,

it can be an outside linebacker, defense van pass rusher. Anyway, he didn't get drafted, but signed with the Rams. He's on the Rams. He's on the Rams right in L.A. Rams.

Yeah, there's a lot of, or at least a handful of NFL NBA brother tandem. There's obviously the Tyson's. Right. This year. And then I think it was,

I think the Thunder's second round pick, I believe, has a brother who I might be mistaken. All this year? All comes from this draft? I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure he does. I saw it. I'll be honest.

I saw it on this. Jackson tells us his dad played basketball in Cincinnati, playing college or high school basketball. What school did he go to, Jackson? I'm going to make a further evaluation. Western Hills at school. Western Hills. Okay.

All right. Well, we're excited for Summer League. That's where we're at. We've reached that stage of the offseason. Before we go, shout out to Kyle Lowry, who hangs him up after 20 seasons, signs with the Raptors for one day. The Raptors put out an awesome tribute video to him. They're going to retire number seven appropriately. And we loved covering, you know, we loved covering Kyle.

Covered him with the Raptors and all those, you know, I saw him at the lowest of the low when they, you know, couldn't get over the LeBron. hump and I saw him at the highest of the high winning the championship with the Raptors and one of the great guys talking to the league and I think he has a big time future in basketball, whether it's as a media commentator, which I think he'd be good at or as a coach. And he talked about how Jay Wright, when he was in Villanova was so influential on him, etc. So you know what, McMahon? Kyle is buddies with Bontemps.

I was going to say kind of fitting that those two cantankerous personalities go out together. They would connect. Does Bond Tim's have a bright future in basketball after his career? I'm sorry, we're out of time. Thank you so much to our producers, especially our Guy Jackson. Thank you so much to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching Hoop Collective. And I guess we should say thank you for all those years.

Tim Bond Temps, thank you and good luck. Tim Bond Tims, we will miss the USWB. I think his voice cracked a little bit early on. This is an emotional time for him. We're excited for him, though. We'll only blame him for every loss the Hawks have from here forevermore. But I've got to say, we will miss the USWB. And good times, as the name says, we had them with him.

Adios Bon Tems and Adios Amigos.