Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - HUGE Growth In Australian Basketball: Breaking Down The Hoops Scene in Melbourne

Episode Date: October 4, 2026

Brian Windhorst and Tim McMahon host a sold out live show at Courtside in Melbourne, Australia with guests: Cole Anthony, Luke Paul, Olgun Uluc and Derek Rucker. The guys talk with Cole Anthon about his experience in the NBL, Luke Paul on his decision to go to Duke and his NBA expectations. Plus, Olgun reveals the next wave of Australian stars to watch and what to expect for their next world cup team.  Timecodes: 00:00 Welcome To The Hoop Collective 00:35 Derek Rucker joins the show 02:10 Cole Anthony joins the show 04:00 Cole Anthony's experience with the NBL 08:45 Challenges of drama with Bucks last season 11:50 How to have the right mindset in basketball 14:50 How NBA players negotiate contracts 18:25 How is NIL impacting college decisions? 22:38 What is goal for Melbourne United this season 26:18 Luke Paul joins the hoop collective 27:05 What are NBA scouts saying about his game 30:00 Expectations for Duke & going out on his own 34:20 What Duke players he wants to emulate 38:00 Is he ready for the Duke-UNC rivalry? 39:25 Derek Rucker on the basketball culture here in Australia 42:45 Olgun Uluc joins the hoop collective 43:15 Learning about the AFL in Melbourne 44:45 Who are the next superstars from Australia? 56:45 What will the Australian World Cup team look like? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hold on, Derek. Hold on, you're not going anywhere. Just sit down. I'm joined here by Timothy Banned McMahon. Howdy, mates. And I'm not letting our special guest, he's our MC tonight. We're going to bring out our first guest for just a second.

But Derek Rucker, trivia question. Who is the greatest shooter in the history of Davidson College? I mean, it's got to be Steph Curry, right? That's what you'd think. Who holds the record for the best of? best three-point percentage of Davidson College, Mr. Derek Rucker. 46%. And you looked up his stats? I did. I did. Now, he's only 45, but they didn't even have the three-point line as freshman and sophomore year, so you can kind of do the math. The crazy thing is you took seven

threes a game. Yeah. In some year in the 80s. I won't say it. In an arrow. where by every time I took a three-point shot because it wasn't an acceptable part of the game yet, every time I shot a three, it was frowned upon, irrespective of the result. So we shot it under a lot of duress from your coach. My coach was never happy when I made a three. Well, we want to give you pay your respect as a great all-time shooter. One of the best shooters in NBL history. Have you been knocked out of the top ten in scoring in the NBL?

You were there for a while? No, I'm still in the top ten. All right. I didn't want to mess with me there. Where on the list? Probably seven or eight. All right. Oh, you don't know for sure? No, I do not. Yeah, he mess everyone. All right, well, we're very glad to be joined by a star of your local Melbourne United here.

He was very graciously joining us tonight on his off night in between games. And he's, I know, very excited to be here in Melbourne, and we're going to talk to him about it. From the United, Cole Anthony. Now, I know that you, this is supposed to be your off day, But when I got here, you were back here at court side, getting shots up. Yeah, I had to put some pain in. I played, like, a doo-doo yesterday, so I'm going to have to get that back in blood. Well, let me ask you this.

I've heard that Tasmania, is that where you guys were? Yeah. I heard it's a tough place to play. That was your first visit? Yeah. And is that true? It's a tough place to play? Well, you miss a bunch of shots.

It doesn't help. So, I mean, you know, definitely a tough environment, though. Actually, it's a really nice arena, and all their fans are in there screaming the whole game. And then, you know, it honestly reminded me of playing back like I was in college again, like a nice college game, like against Duke. So I got a lot of respect. And, you know, they outplayed us yesterday and they got to go, duh. What do you think about guys from Duke? What do you think about guys specifically that might be going to Duke?

You have anything to say? You know, it's always go hills. I've seen someone in here with the UNC warm up on or something. But, no, I got – it's all love with the dudes going to Duke, man. You know what I'm saying? I love seeing all my peers do well. And so definitely big shout to young fellow up there was waiting to come down here. I was hoping you would begin the trash talk because I

Yeah, right. Because I know there was some, he had some trash talk last night, McMahon. Well, he's been around Joe Ingalls, and Engels will kind of rub off on you. I know that. So you're here in Australia, I know your first game, you put up 30 points in 21 minutes. Man, that was amazing. Tell us how your experience has been. You know, you've played a few games here this season just started.

You dealt with a caffeine injury to start the season, but how is it? your experience here been so far it's been great man honestly i've uh really enjoyed the time here you know everyone in the united program has just welcomed me with open arms and just really feel like like help make me feel like this was home and so i had had no complaints honestly you know it's a beautiful city i've spent some good time here drink some good old coffee and uh nah yeah it's been a good time so far we're going to win a few more games starting soon yeah well McMahon learned yesterday uh he ordered a coffee and they didn't know what he was talking about. I learned about the, what is it, the flat white? Yes. Oh, yeah. That's my guy. It's like, it's like artwork. Every time.

You look in the cup and, I mean, it's like a panty. He doesn't get out that much from Texas. We ain't that fancy. Yeah, you mentioned the atmosphere feeling like college. What, you know, what is it like in these gyms? I mean, you've been playing in the NBA. How would you compare the atmosphere in the NBA to the NBA? I'd say, you know, that's a, you know, that's a lot. I'd say, you know, Definitely in the NBA, you're going to have some bigger arenas, but the fans here are just as loud, you care just as much about the game. And, you know, it's really, it's not that big a difference. At the end of the day, when you step on that court, my focus is going to be on the court.

But, you know, I definitely always like to take a look around and kind of take in the environment. And, yeah, the environments that I've played in so far have all been electric and have been a good time. So I know you've said that Ingalls played a big role when you talk and you into here. So you play with him with the magic. Yes, sir. And so how did that process work? Because I assume he had to do some recruiting to get you here. It just involved him texting me a few times.

Like, get your butt out here, man. Like, what are you talking? Like, what are you thinking about? Like, come on, this is a no-brainer. And I was like, you know what, Joe, you're right. I'm going to rock with you on this one. Why do people like Joe so much? Like, he's always one of the most popular players on all of his teams.

Oh, he's an asshole. Yes, he is. That's why I was asking. A lovable one, though. But, like, you know, in the best possible way, he's a great dude. Like, you know, he talks, much mess and like you don't want to take him too seriously because you know the build he's you know he's built like a substitute teacher i've said that several times before and but like then he gets on the

court and you're like damn this dude can play he can play like he's an awesome team and he looks out for everybody around him and um yeah you know how dude can hoop and it's just so deceptive like shoot i know it's his birthday today so i know that's why he's probably not here yeah but i got to show him some love but not like yo he just it's just the it's the it's one of them like it's one of them looks can be deceiving type of dudes right there. It's just, yo, he just don't look the part. But he played a part well. Still, at 39.

Today. Today's 39. I thought it was 40. I didn't even look out of respect. I didn't even look it up. People thought he was 40 since he was 26, though, because you're right. You know, you're right. Now, I literally said to him today because we were flying back from Tassian.

I literally like, yo, happy birthday, bro. Like 40? He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. He said, don't age me yet. I'm like, my fault, gang. And he's a great pick and roll player. Right? One of the best.

A totally underrated part of his game. Like when he was in Utah, that was something that he really developed really well. Yeah, he's one of the best in the world still currently. Ask Rudy O'Brien. Rudy used to tell me, Joseph, anyone who passed me the ball. There's some elite guards in this league, you know. And so how have you prepared for, you know, what you're going to face night in and night? I mean, obviously, you're used to high-level competition.

But, you know, I think the NBL is underrated, especially. you with the high level play of the guards? Yeah, I'd say there are several, several high level guards here between Bryce, you know, Kendron, you know, Brandon Knight just signed out here, which I think is, I think that's actually really cool. I'm excited to, you know, get out there and play against him, but it's a lot of high level guards out here. Cole Anthony. Yeah, you know, you said it, but no, it's a lot. And that was part of the reason for me. I'm like, y' all right, I'm going to get some good battles. And for me, I'm like, all right, I want to take the defensive challenges on too,

so I get to come out here and compete with those dudes every time I step out on the court. How much did you know about the NBA before this season before you started thinking about coming here and Joe's recruiting you? You know, honestly, I didn't know too much except for, you know, I had, obviously, Lamello Ball was out here several years ago. RJ Hampton, who was a very good friend of mine,

who also a former teammate of mine who played out here. And I kind of knew from them a little bit, but obviously as I've gotten out here, I've learned a lot more. It's a lot of talent in this league overall. And I think the league has run really well, and I think that it's on the uptrend. I think that there's still, it's nowhere near as it's going to be a few years from now. And I'm just, I'm happy to get out here now, say I'm a part of it, and just experience it, and get to experience living life in Melbourne.

I know you've talked about how you wanted to get your joy back. I'm sure last year in Milwaukee was on various levels was just the whole team, I'm sure, it wasn't that much fun. But getting your joy back, you know what brought you to that point man basketball is one of those things for me my whole life like I'm you know my motivation for the game

has always just been you know like I have fun like I enjoy the game I want to be lead I want to step out there just enjoy my time on the court and you know when you get to the NBA you know you really you're confronted with the brutal reality that you know this is a business first and foremost and

you know a lot of times business can just get in the way of your kind of your kind of your joy or the way you think about the game. For me, I know that's definitely something that's happened. And, you know, I'd say one thing like already being out here, pushing two months soon is that I've just been able to just, in a way, you know, be a kid, getting these practices, just go out there, hoop, have a fun time, step on the court,

we're playing in these games, not really stress about it, but just go out there and just play a very pure and joyful type of basketball. And so far I've been pretty successful in that. Yeah, so what was last year, like just to be a part of that situation with that team with the Janus Cloud hanging over the team the whole season? Yeah, I mean, it was definitely a rough season. I'd say it wasn't just a rough season for myself.

It was probably a rough season for- No, I would say that most of the team underperforming. The GM had a rough season too. I mean, I think everybody did, but you know, look, that's life. That's just how stuff goes sometimes. And for me, I just, you know, it was also a culture shot for me just because I go there. It's cold. I just coming from Orlando for five years.

I've been in that warm weather. You step into negative 38 degrees. That's Fahrenheit for y'all, my fault. But whether or that, you know, that's going to put a frown in your face. And so I'd just say for me, it was just, it was great for me in terms of just growing up. And, oh, on top of that shoot, that was my first time living by myself. Really? First time actually living by myself.

And so that in itself is just, you know, that's something that behind the scenes, people aren't going to, no one's going to ask me, but no one's going to know about that. But for me, that was huge. Like, I was 25 years old and never lived by myself. And I'm out there in Milwaukee. You know, I had a nice apartment. I was set up nice, but like, shoot, you get lonely. You kind of, especially, you know, you have.

a few bad games, you start getting in your own head. And so for me, just when I got out of there, it was like, all right, it was like, all right, this is a great chance to kind of get a breath of fresh air, get a great reset. And, you know, I've ended up out here and, you know, got my girlfriend with me now. Shout out to her. She's been awesome coming out here with me. And so it's, it's been a lot different. All right, I've already diagnosed this. So he went from Milwaukee. By the way, I'm from the Midwest. It's cold where I'm from. I'm not criticized Milwaukee. Terrible winter. Come play in the NBA. perpetual summer.

You play during the summer here. You go back in the offseason. It's summer. Perpetual summer. You got it figured out. They've been telling me, too, like, I got out here mid-August that they're like, oh, don't worry, the weather's getting better.

And I'm like, yo, the weather's been good for me so far. Shoot, I ain't got no complaints. No complaints. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So you've obviously, you know, you've had some success in the NBA. You're here in the NBA now. in your mind, do you get back to the NBA?

Do you see this as a proven ground to get back to the NBA? Yeah, I think it's definitely something that is in my head. But for me, that's another thing I've learned on this journey is that, like, this is something for me that I learned, honestly, back when I was in college. Like, when I was in college, I was coming out of high school, I was a high recruit. And for me, I feel like I sacrificed a lot of my college experience

looking towards that NBA draft, like knowing in my head, like, all right, regardless of what happens, I'm entering this draft. regardless of what happened. So for me, I really want to try to just focus all my time and energy in my time here in Melbourne with United just to, because I feel like that's how I'm going to get the most out of it and how the team will get the most out of. Is that sort of the downside of growing up the son of an NBA player because you're expected to be an NBA player like from when you first pick up a ball? I mean, my pops is all right. So like, you know, I don't know if people

thought that per se, but like he was pretty good player. He was solid. He was solid. He could guard. He probably still guards better than I do I got to probably take a few notes from him But I'd say, you know, maybe But for me, like my, I was so So ignorant to a lot of that Like I was always in my own head like, yo Like even you could have asked me in fifth grade

If I'm going to the NBA, I would have said, hell yeah Like absolutely I'm going to the NBA Just because I had that just I was just so ignorant To kind of everything around me I just loved the game so much Like no matter what you told me Like I was going to get to where I wanted to get to

And so I just say like that, oh, sorry, I lost my train of thought. That's right. What was the question? No, you're just talking about the pressure of, you know, your last name. You know, I feel like at this point, no one really comes up to me and be like, hey, you're Greg's son. I don't really get that that much. No, I agree.

People my age, they remember the Knicks teams, the UNLV team. I loved that UNLV team. They were elite. They were very elite. It's funny. We had dinner with Andrew Gays, and I was kind of joking with him about how much I loved the Michigan team that beat him. And I love that, you know, I was a bandwagon hopper, prepared me to be a sports writer. I love that UNLV team, and that's when I really, well, I don't want to say this.

He loved the UNLV team because they beat Duke. Okay, that's why he loved the UNLV team. And then I don't want to say this too loud, you know, because we do have a future Dukey in the house. But when that Duke team beat UNLV, that's when the hatred for Duke. Duke really started for me. Yeah, he was, when that 30 for 30, that ESPN documentary came out, what was it called? I hate Christian Leitner. She was upset.

I was the suburban white kid who loved like the long shores. I bandwagon hop from that UNLV team to the Fab Five team. I hated Christian Leight. So you're talking a minute ago about the business of the NBA. So you reached a point in your career where you got a contract extension. You know, you know, every, you know, you say when you're in college, your goal is to get to the NBA. When you get to the NBA, your goal is to get the contract extension, right? So we just had a big moment in the NBA today, one of the biggest moments of the whole offseason with Jalen Duren.

He had to make a decision on his contract extension. I'm glad he took that money. So this is what I was going to say to him. I'm so glad he took that money. So this is what happened. When it got out, which might have been strategic, but when it got out that he had been offered 200 million. like not 197 not 205 200 I felt like the players the players I talked to the players who had podcasts they were like what you just said take that money I'm glad he took it but like on the other side of things I see I can understand why he didn't take that money at first I know he's looking at the other dudes in this draft class who got more money than him

because that's the one thing but like everybody in his joint's competitive and it's not just about the on the course stuff it's about the off the court stuff it's about the most of the money money. It's about all that. And so I know for a fact he was looking like, yo, they got X, Y, Z. I need to at least get that. And so, like, yeah, you know, it's easy to say, like, yo, you should take that. Like, what are you going to stress over an additional $20 million over five years? What is that going to do if you don't even end up getting that $200 million? So I definitely, but I see the other side of it for him, but boy, I'm glad he took that money. He just, look, it's one of those things. You just never know what's going to happen. Like, you just never know, like, that money's in front of your face. Take it. Take that money. and keep proving it.

And for your next one, go get $250. Another thing, from a business standpoint, it made sense. He wasn't going to be able to make that money up, even if he was maxed out. He wasn't going to make more money over a five-year period. And from a basketball standpoint, you are a big man who, you know, pick and roll, finisher, you're going to leave Cade Cunningham as Cades in his prime? Yeah, Cade can go, boy. Come on now.

Yeah, I think he was always going to end up coming back. even if I don't think he would have, I'm just glad he took that money. And nobody in that position ever taken the qualifying off. I feel like so many people felt, I felt like so many people in the league felt exactly how you were describing that. You know, having been there yourself, you know, and I don't know how your kind of, I don't know how your negotiations went when you did that, like how intense they were. Were they pretty intense? Oh, boy.

I remember we had a practice. Like, I remember we had a practice like, this is where we're in the midst of it. Because this is, I think, preseason. And we had a practice and I was in there just going. Like, I was in there hooping. But I was. so, I was so pissed. I almost like, I damn there I almost started crying in the practice. I was just

so worked up, so like emotional, so just like in the practice. Now I was killing dudes in there, but like, it was just one of those things where I'm like, yo, like, damn, like, am I really going to wait another year and sacrifice potentially making all this money? And then, you know, by the Lord's grace, I ended up signing

that extension. And I was, I just remember like, it was a great moment because that next day in practice, like, shout to my boy, Jamal Mosley, former MBL legend. There you go. He, he gave me a shout-out at the end of practice. And we were talking about that, how, like, yo, just trusting that process of, like, yo, buying into the team.

And he just gave me kudos about me getting paid. And he was like, yo, because I was going at him a little bit. That's what I was going at a little bit in practice. It wasn't his choice. It wasn't his choice at all, though. And it was, I know. And that's what J.B. Pickerstown is telling Jaylenner, hey, man, I wouldn't negotiate anything.

I was on your side the whole time. But, like, it was a surreal moment. It was a moment I'll never forget. So this, right here last night, night. We had this crazy most. So here's our plan. I somehow this stayed quiet for a couple of weeks that, you know, I heard a couple of weeks ago that Luke was going to make his announcement last night here on this court. We were going to do it, we were going to do it here tonight. And then we said, wait a minute, if we say it on Friday night, all these people are going to hear he's going to Duke.

And then it's not going to be on America. You guys are going to ruin this prize. He's not going to be on American television for like eight or ten hours or something. And like, everybody would know. So we're like, okay, we have to get him. And because he's 17, he agreed to come in Thursday and Friday. Like when he's 21, he'd be like, I'm not doing a media event on back-to-back nights, forget that. But because he's 17, we got him to do it. But 17 years old, and he's got to make these big decisions.

We're going to talk to him in a few minutes. These big decisions. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. Because you're a modern, you're in your mid-20s, you're 26. It's not like you're talking about back in my day, but it's completely different than when you, your situation at 17 would have been totally different

if the same situation was the case as it is now. I mean, shoot, look, that's the one thing, too. I didn't have the NIL at that time. I think I was probably maybe two years before it. I'm sorry, you just missed it. You know what? I've made a little bit of money now. He's done right.

I can't be too mad, but, yo, he's going to go make a lot of money in there. Man, I'm excited for him. Yeah, so how would you judge if the money, if there was a money involved, how would you decide where to go to college? you know like if the 17 I mean he's thinking should I say the politically correct thing

about I'm going North Carolina no matter what I can be ignorant for a second I mean shoot you know like I'm going to want to get a big bag that's like I'm going to say that but at the same time like knowing that that ultimate goal is to get to the NBA because that's where there's the potential to make real

like look it's there is some life changing money being made on certain dues in the NIL, but that NBA money's different. It's real generational wealth being built there. And so, like, I'd have to probably find a balance between wanting to find a school in a situation where I feel that I can get the best out of everyone like myself, the coaching staff, my team around me, and get some nice money on the side. So it probably had to be a balance. Okay, so how do you prepare somebody for what it's going to be like to play in the ACC and what the experience like to play in a UNC Duke game?

Ooh, that UNC Duke game is different. Man, we went 0 and 2 my year. I got to just put that out there. I was going to ask, but they didn't want to be rude. We didn't have a great year, though. But I talked about it earlier, how I really wish I was more in the moment. But I also, I told my meniscus when I was in college, so I missed almost half the season.

And so that didn't help. But, like, we were, as bad as we were those that year, like, our two games against Duke were still super, super competitive. Like those were, we were in our eyes like, shoot, like, you know, we go win these games. Like, all right, our season's been successful. Like, that's kind of how we were looking at it at that point. And so, like, they were great fights. And, like, everybody was hyped going into those games.

And they were, it was two dog fights that, you know, unfortunately, we came out on the losing end of. But, yeah, it's, it's, there's no real way to prep it. Like, you got to just. I mean, it's the best rivalry in college basketball. A hundred percent. It's 100 percent the best rivalry in college basketball. And I'm blessed to have been a part of it. a few. I wish I would have gotten a dub, but, you know, it's life.

Do your teammates here want to talk to you about the NBA at all? Do they ask about it? Oh, for sure. I definitely get asked a few questions. I mean, I think the biggest culture shock, and Joe is the first person to tell me this when I got out here is about like, I think it was after practice the first day. It's like, oh, he's like, you better take your clothes home with you. They're not washing them here for you, buddy. I'm like, yeah. Okay, I get it. I see, it's humbling. Very humbling.

We flew, and we flew a, I sound so boozy, just like an asshole. saying this, but like, yo, we flew commercial flying to Tassie and back, and I'm, you know, I don't really care. But Joe, we were, when we got out the car, we were just there walking. It was me and him and Josh Adoro. We were just walking. I'm just like, man, this is a humbling experience. And Joe starts dying laughing like, yo, I was about to say the same thing.

But what do you think the goals for the United are this year? I mean, like, what are you trying, you know, what realistically do you think you guys can accomplish? I think we can win the championship. Like, I think that's, I think we absolutely could do that. I know it's, you know, I think it's crazy of me to say that when we, as we have a one and two record. But, like, yeah. Well, it's three games, buddy. It's three games.

It's early into the season. Like, we've obviously, we've had a few injuries, like myself being one of them. But, you know, obviously my dog, Chris Golden just went out. But he'll be, you know, he'll be back soon. But I think that's the pedigree to this organization has. and I am coming here to help build on that. I want to know that opening game, so you were on a minute restriction

because you're coming off the injury. He scored 30 points and 21 minutes. If you didn't have a minute restriction, how far do you think you could have gone that night? Like in terms of like minutes played or like points scored? There's only 40 minutes in the game, so it's not comparable to the NBA, but like, you know, 30 points and 21 minutes now.

It's real easy to talk about kind of what if, what could have happened and all that. But, like, I don't know. Like, you know, I might have not taking that many shots if I had more time to spread it out. Like, you know, I was really in there trying to just get them up and shoot. I mean, I went cold in those last couple minutes,

though. I probably threw my best punch in that third quarter and fourth quarter went a little cold. So, I mean, I wish I could have maybe divvy that up a little better and hit a few more timely shots, but, you know, that's how to go sometimes? How much different does it feel you're used to having an 82 game schedule to now it's a 30-some-odd game schedule?

How much different does the intention? intensity of the game and the kind of the weight of each game feel? You know, it's one of those things where you go out there and you play a game, you lose by 20. Like that 20, that 20 point loss is going to sit with you for maybe a week. Like I know after, before this game we just played yesterday, we hadn't played for a week. So like, honestly, the joint that I'm thinking about more is them two-hour practices we have in a couple times that week before the game. That's a little different than the NBA. That feels like college again.

Honestly, and I'm like, you know, but, you know, obviously I'm a problem. We all take that very seriously because we want to get them. We want to maximize our time doing that. But like, I'd say that's probably the biggest difference. Well, you guys get another chance tomorrow night, so that's good against the Thai pans. Yes, sir. And I want to get you off so you can prepare for that. So we really appreciate your time tonight coming out on a Friday night.

And we're thrilled that you're happy. And we want you to be happy, whether that's here or somewhere else. we're going to be rooting for you now. I appreciate you guys, man. Look, I got a special place because my colleague at ESPN last year, Michael Malone, yeah, dropped us and went to be the head coach of North Carolina. He didn't say anything about it. There was just, you know, we were sitting watching games, working in the studio,

and there was this rumor that came out that Billy Donovan was going to be the head coach. And Malone just sits there and he goes, Billy's not getting that job. That's all he said. That's all he said. But he didn't say it was, I'm getting that job. getting the job like in two days. He might know something.

Yeah, well, I didn't know it. But so we'll be, you know, I'll be a, even though we got a Duky coming up here in a minute, in spirit with the heels this year. So you and I will be connected on that. Good man. Thank you so much to Cole Anthony. By the way, Wendy's about to tell Luke Paul how much he's going to be rooting for Duke this year. Well, Luke, what's your last 24 hours been like?

Yeah, it's been pretty crazy. obviously the Duke stuff and everything getting announced. But, yeah, it's been pretty surreal. You heard from a lot of, there's a lot of Dukies in the basketball war, a lot of Dukies in the NBA. You heard from any of those guys? Yeah, some of the guys are there now reached out and said, you know, congrats and can't wait for me to get there.

We love Duke on the Hoop Collective. It's our favorite team. Hey, Christian Leitner, wish you will at Duke. Yeah, so I want to go back to this summer. when you went to Istanbul. And I think you played overseas before. You played in Abu Dhabi last year? That was a big event.

There was some big time players in that event. And this event was going to have consequences, right? Like how you and other guys played in this event was going to affect it. Tell me about that experience playing in Turkey and playing in those games. Yeah. It was to play for the green and gold

is something that I've always dreamed of. And, you know, to kind of do it on the biggest stage of my ages was pretty special. And especially to come away with a bronze medal as well, with the team we had and the coaching staff. And everyone that was along with the journey was very special. You're obviously, you're focused on winning in that situation. You're focused on playing well. That's an event that's a heavily scouted event. You know, there are NBA scouts throughout the arena.

how much are you aware of that? And as a 17-year-old, what's it like being in that situation? Yeah, obviously you see on social media and everything that these guys are going to be at these events. But, you know, I try to keep that aside and, you know, worry about, you know, leave that to my agent and leave that up to him and just play basketball. But, you know, it's pretty cool to have, you know, all these schools and NBA Scouts there, definitely. Yeah, so, well, the NBA Scouts, let me tell you what the NBA Scouts were. talking about. First off, the game against Canada, right? That was in the quarterfinal. Canadians are a powerhouse. That was a huge game. Like that game alone demonstrated which you can,

I don't know, would you have 20, you have double double in that game, right? Yeah. But you know what the NBA scouts were talking about after they. So first off, they were like, obviously, they love, the NBA scouts love your shot because, like, you are, it seems like you've worked real hard on that technique. Is that been something you've done your, your life worked on your technique a lot? Yeah, definitely. And you know what the NBA scout said, they said, look at this guy's hands. Hold up that hand. He's got some minutes. I don't mean to like, they, this is because as a point guard, you need to have strong hands. And they loved how strong your hands are. And so

I imagine that, you know, after you came back from Turkey, that your life changed a lot right there because I imagine you heard from a lot of people who wanted to get you know who wanted to try to bring you in into college next year yeah um obviously moved to cans pretty much straight after um getting back from the world cup but um kind of kept it quiet and was talking to a few colleges and some schools and um yeah over you know a few months and had a call with duke and obviously it was you know a good one and yeah decided last night that i was going to go to duke oh you decided night. Well, no, I did decide last night, but yeah, I announced last night that I was going to Duke. Well, one of the stars that was played in Turkey was Jojo Boomjay Boomjay, who is committed

to Duke. He's going to Duke this fall, and so you obviously got an opportunity to see him up close. You're going to be playing with him, and he is a guy who is a lot of excitement with in the U.S. So what, do you see two of you working together? How do you see you guys working? Yeah, he's an exceptional player. At the World Cup, he gave us some work. But I'm super excited to play with him. He's very versatile, play inside, outside, you know, come off handoffs, come off on balls. And I'm excited to play the middle pick and roll with him because I think we're going to be something special.

You've played against him. How much have you guys communicated? And was he part at all of the recruiting process with you? Well, obviously, I knew that he was going to be there. but he reached out today and, you know, he was like if you need any help or anything and he gave me his number. But yeah, we talked a little bit in Turkey about it. And, you know, his experience and what he was going into.

But now, he's a super nice guy and I'm excited for it. So we just heard Greg Anthony talk about how it was 25 years old before he really moved out on his own. You're way younger than that. How has been moving out on your own in Cairns, you know, way far away from home, Yeah, I love it. It's good because my mom doesn't tell me to do everything. Would she let you grow that mustache at home? I've been growing it for a while now.

But no, it's been good up in cans. The boys have looked after me and shout out to Sunday Dutch because I do go to his house a fair bit and he looks after me. But no, it's been good. And I guess you learn a lot of things that you don't get to learn when you're at home. You know, your mom and dad are cooking for you. So you kind of got to cook for you. yourself, do your own washing. But it's been good learning for myself. Yeah, I think that's one of the

things you could learn from someone, you know, obviously that, you know, you just hear from Cole about maybe that way, maybe he'd done it over again, maybe he would have done it younger. So this is a, I remember talking to Victor Wenbanyama about this. Victor moved out of his family's house. And he just, he just moved from sort of the suburbs of Paris into central Paris, but he talked about how that much made a huge difference for him, you know, and having to be responsible and stuff. So, you know, you're going through something now that can, you know, can pay off in the long run. So you've been dealing with an ankle injury, but I know you're feeling better. Hopefully you'll be back soon. What do you think is you're going to be your goal here for

these next few months as you hope to have a great NBL season before you even get to Duke? Yeah, I think, you know, really show NBA scouts what I'm about. But also help my team win, you know, we want to get back to playoff basketball. and, you know, do something special with this team because we've got some talent on the team. And, yeah, I know Cairns fans want us to get back to playing finals basketball. You mentioned Josh Giddy as a guy who you obviously have watched a lot, kind of patterned a game after. Where do you see your game in his game? And what have you learned from watching him?

Yeah, I think his ability to, you know, kind of create for other guys and get his teammates involved, to make it easy for his teammates. And also the ability to get downhill, you know, break his defender down, whether it's getting on the rim, pulling up for that little short game or, you know, even breaking his defender down and pulling up for three. And I feel like I can do all of those things. So being 17 in this league, there's some excellent guards. And because of your size, I would just not be surprised if they put some wings on you.

do you anticipate, especially now you're going to Duke, everybody knows it, do you anticipate having to go through sort of the rookie, you bet to be a rookie and then a freshman, that's kind of unfair back to back. And then a rookie again. Do you anticipate that you're going to get some welcome to the NBL action? Yeah, definitely. Some of the boys said to me a couple weeks ago that there's going to be a target on my back because, you know, I want to get to the NBA and there's guys in this league that feel like they should

be in the NBA as well. So they want to prove that they can be there. And I want to do the same thing. But yeah, definitely there will be a couple moments where I'll be like, oh, I'm playing in a professional league. So I know we asked you yesterday about some of the guys that, you know, some of your favorite Duke players. So we're going to feel old here right now, McMahon. Who are some of the guys? I've got a daughter his age. Trust me. I feel old already. You've watched Duke play. Who are some of the guys from Duke that maybe you have watched over the years and that you maybe can follow in their footsteps?

Obviously, you know, the most kind of recent one is Tyrese Proctor. What he did at Duke was, you know, pretty special, and he had some special teammates as well. You know, I've been talking to Jack White and his experiences at Duke. But, you know, obviously guys like, you know, Kyrie and Tatum and... All these Australians, Kyrie. Yeah? Jack.

Tyrese? Tatum's got Australia ties. That's right, of course. His dad, yeah. But no, it's cool to see, you know, who has been at Duke and what they've been able to produce, and that was a big part of why I chose Duke. Do you know who Christian Leightner is? No.

Ah, see, that makes me feel old. That's fine. You'll learn. That's fine. I don't want to know what Christian Leightner is. I don't want to be like Christian Leightner. I want him to be like Tyrese Proctor. There you go.

So what are you going to You know what part You know the American fans are going to discover you But if you were telling somebody about your game What to watch for Obviously the Australian fans are going to discover you too What do you bring as a player What do you think you know people should watch for

And learn about as they watch you You know I think I'm a point guard that can You know kind of control a game With speed and the ability to get others involved You know kind of take control the game in big moments, you know, settle the game down, speed it up, play at my own pace, play what the team needs, and then, you know, get on the rim, create shots for myself, create shots for others. And I think something that's, you know, is something that I don't

get enough credit for as my rebounding, my ability to rebound. I think I'm a pretty good rebounder. So all of those things is something that, you know, fans can expect. He was excited, he told me yesterday he was excited, or I shouldn't say excited, but happy, because Fremantle blew the lead because he's not a Fremantle fan. Okay. He's, he's

because I was learning, I was paying attention to. I was coming there this week. I was watching the grand file. Footy. Okay. I've learned everything I know about footy, I've learned in the last 48 hours.

We went over today to Carlton FC. I'm a blues fan now. They're like the Dallas Cowboys of the AFL. They've got all these championships, but none of them. since 1995, so I felt right at home. Oh, no. What? He did, I want you to know, Luke, he did kick several majors. Yeah, that's right.

Very impressively. The first two were a little rough, but by the third or fourth, it was pretty good. I was just glad I didn't pull a hamstring. We'll see about it. We'll see how you feel tomorrow on that. But when you grow up in this country, and I think your dad's, your dad's a big footy fan, right? How do you decide to become a basketball player when you're obviously growing up big and strong? Yeah, I played footy until I was, you know, 14, 15. And my dad played footy when he was younger, and my mom played basketball. But it was kind of like that 14, 15 age where I had to make a decision.

And obviously, it was basketball. And I think it's going to be the right choice. I think it is. You're doing all right. We're prepared to announce that, that you did a good job with that. So have you studied at all, thought it all about the Duke North Carolina rivalry? Because I know Cole was in a good mood tonight, but obviously you're going to see him soon, and he's going to be a little extra edge.

Are you prepared for the coming Duke North Carolina rivalry? Yeah, I don't know too much about it, but I know there's a rivalry, and yeah, I'm excited. You'll learn quickly. I will, definitely. Well, it's going to be a great learning experience. We're so excited. We, you know, on this podcast, we try to let people know about coming up. I sometimes get made fun of unfairly.

No, we kick Bont Hems off the podcast for making fun of Wendy too much. Yeah, unfairly get made fun of because it's really important to me to tell our audience about who's coming, you know? And so it's so great an opportunity to get to know you here. We're going to follow you. We're going to, we're going to cheer for you because we appreciate. You're choosing a tough path, back-to-back rookie years. That is a tough path and choosing going to Duke, which is a tough path. But it's an honor.

You should be proud of yourself for getting to Duke, even though we're making fun of it. It's a world-class institution. And thank you so much. Good luck to you. And I look forward to seeing you in the NBA. Thank you. All right. Luke Paul.

So what do you think about this, kid? Well, first of all, I really respect and admire the fact that he's willing to take, as you said, a tough path to eventually get to the NBA. Coming to play in this league right now, where we may be in the golden era of point guards, and the guys that he is going to have to face, Bryce Cotton, Kendrick Davis, Cole Anthony, Taryn Armstrong, Arnizh Vlichka up in Brisbane, who was the Lithuanian League MVP last year. he's leading the league and assists. He is an outstanding point guard. Then they got Brandon Knight coming in. It is such high quality depth at the position. And as I said this morning to you guys,

I believe it is a great move and one that is going to expedite his development. He's going to have to make really good decisions in critical moments. And I'm not talking about fourth quarter crunch time. There are moments in second quarters where it's important that the point guard be able to lead and direct his team and make plays.

And he gets that opportunity. Win or fail, he can't lose. Yeah, so he's, you know, he's in this Next Star program. It's really, I mean, look, there's Aussies all over the NBA. You don't go to an NBA team without finding an Aussie player, an Aussie coach, an Aussie athletic trainer. Executive? Executive.

I mean, they're all over. And the Next Star program has delivered so much of Australia's game to the U.S. And even if they're not Australians, like Lamello or Alex Starr who came here, and he's the next in that line. And so it's really something that now the American fans will know who he is and watch for him. And it's interesting right now also is because we have the greatest import ever to play in the league in Brycecott, six-time NBL MVP going for his seventh. Yeah, Gaze last night, he wasn't crazy about that.

I think Gasey has their record was seven. Andrew has seven. Yes. And for someone like me, I never thought that there would be a challenger to Andrew seven. But right on Bryce's heels is Kendrick Davis at Sydney, last year's champion and championship series MVP. But Bryce is this real professional type of persona, whereas Kendrick has adopted the role of the villain. And now we've got Cole Anthony coming in, who is the populace. You see what type of energy he exudes in the charisma that he has.

So we've got these three amazingly dynamic, but yet so unique guys at the position. And Luke is going to have to play against those guys every third night. By the way, speaking of MVP's 1990 NBL MVP. Correct. How about that? Thank you. I'll clap 30 years later. So as part of our amazing MBL media ecosystem, I'll bring up our next guest.

He is an ESPN NBL insider. I think he is one of the real ascending talents in international basketball media. You see him breaking all of the hot news with the NBL. And he is just a high character person and someone who's done a tremendous job. Much like you two, he's grinding his way to the top, baby. Oogun Oolinsh, here we go. Hello, Ongen. I've seen Ongen all over the world.

finally get to see you at home. I appreciate it. I appreciate you guys coming. Welcome me into the... It was just like a costing couch? This is great. God, I hope not. Me too.

Yeah, I mean, I'm thrilled to come here. We've had a great time here. We've been really embraced. Even though this is prime footy season, the trade window is open today. There was a trade that was done. We actually helped announce the trade. Oh, I am so fired up about the Marty Potty.

Yeah. We helped announce the trade at Carlton today. I had no idea who they traded for. But I was very excited. I must admit, I'm not a footy fan in any way. I'm from Sydney. In Sydney, we don't care about footy. So everything that you guys broke today for Carlton, I got no idea what you were saying.

I think Carlton might have known it was going to happen before today, because when they gave us a tour of the locker, he already had a locker. Oh, that was a good hand. But I'm not sure. because it's not really my area of expertise. But I know that I now have an AFL team. You will go into the MCG tomorrow. How excited are you for that experience?

I'm just going to say that for an American to stand in the middle of a footy field is wild. It's like 150 meters or something from end to end. And from side to side, it's like quadru... We can't compute it. We can't even compute it. So let me explain this thing, because this is, so I live in Melbourne for a good portion of the year, so I learn about footy on the fly, right?

I'm not from here. Apparently they play games, I'm new to this, on different size fields. Yeah, it's like baseball where, you know, different sized ballparks. Well, in soccer, in proper football, they play on different sets. Nobody cares about soccer. Oh, that's true. But anyway, let's talk about the hardwood because that's where your expertise is. I was very excited to meet Luke, and you've been.

done a lot of writing about him. You interviewed him for the story today that came out. What is Australia going to see and what is eventually the U.S. going to see when they get to see Luke Paul? So I've covered Luke Paul for, I want to say over two years now. I first covered him at a Fever under 15 Oceana Cup. It was in Canberra. This is when Australia plays teams like Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands. And these are countries that don't have the same talent. and so usually Australia and New Zealand just go through and they dominate those tournaments. Luke Paul was part of that.

He wasn't like a primary part, but you can tell that there was something in this kid, right? He was bigger, he was longer. He wasn't the point card of that team, but you can tell he was good. And then since then, from an under 16 Asia Cup where he was the MVP, he played under 18th nationals here in Australia,

and he just excelled in all of them. And there are some prospects who we expect to excel in those places, and they don't, right? And it's a really good indicator. If you go to those tournaments and you're at the level, then it's like, all right, you're a real prospect. And then he went to Istanbul in Turkey for the under 70 World Cup, and he exceeded expectations. We have this thing in Australia where we're somehow producing just a bulk amount of big point guards.

He is the next version of that, except he shot 55% from 3 on volume at that tournament. Yeah, the NBA scouts were very excited about that. Okay, beyond Luke, there's some other prospects here in Australia who the American fan, the Australian fans should be interested too, but the American fans should get to know who are some of those names. So you have Luke as part of the Next Arts program. Dash Daniels is also part of the Next Arts program. So that's Dyson Daniels's younger brother.

Now, Dash was part of Melbourne United last season. He moved to Southeast Melbourne Phoenix. So it's the crosstown rival. He moved to that team. And his preseason was very impressive, right? he looks bigger than he did last season. He looks more athletic. And the jumper, which has always been a question with him,

he's very Dyson in the way he guards, but the jumper was always a question. It looks like it's slightly more fluid, he's more confident in it, and he's someone who, the processing of the game has gotten way better. There was a pre-season game. They played Melbourne United,

and Colin Anthony wasn't playing, but he might as well have been. He was sitting on the bench, on the very end of the bench, and he was talking smack to Dash Daniels, the entire game. I heard he talks this back to the refs last night.

That's what he said. You just told me what he said too that got him ejected from that game. He got disqualified. Was it a proper rejection? Is that basically? If I was the official, I would not have given him a fifth hour and the disqualification. Well, you know, he's an American. Wait, how tall was a ref? Tim.

I didn't know this. You know what? All the refs on that court would have been over six foot. So they're clear. But dash down is... A wee fellow of kind of personality. That's correct. Dash Daniels played in this preseason game and Joe Ingalls was guarding him. And Joe Ingalls was treating him like teams would treat Ben Simmons, right?

Way under the ball screen. And Cole Anthony is just yelling at Dash the entire time. Every time Dash shot it, right? That's like a mental challenge. They're going way under. Cole is yelling. Like, hell nah, right? Misses the shot.

Makes the next one. Cole Anthony sits back. Humble about it. Dash misses the next one. Cole yells again. He says, all right, back to Earth, little fella. So he's going at Dash, and ultimately Dash popped off in the fourth quarter of that game, helped them win that game. And I feel like it earned some respect, not just from Cole, but like from the NBA collective who I speak to who say, hey, like the processing from quarters one, two, three, four just gets better and better.

Like he hasn't shrunk mentally through this. So like that's the biggest change. It looks like he's mentally way more prepared to be a pro. Yeah, and so he's draft eligible this year. I think he's got a good chance of being drafted, just a matter of where he's. he slots in. Who are some other Australians that I need to pay attention to and know about? So there are some in the college system. You've got someone like Ben Henshill. Ben Henshle is at Ole Miss right now. He played with the Perth Wildcats. He found eligibility. So many

congratulations to him and the many millions that he's probably on. So he's found eligibility. He's a very interesting guard. When we think of, we're trying to think of who is going to replace the void that Patty Mills would leave on the boomers as far as a shooting guard. guard who can shoot it. Ben Henshiel maybe fits that bill and there's like a, there's a small NBA, you know, potential in him. And then Alex Condon is interesting to me. He's one of those guys who could be part of the boomers program from a big man perspective. He went back to Florida. The NBA minimum is $4 million. He declared for the draft as soon as he realized that he could probably make more money going back to Florida. He went back there. He's an interesting big.

And if I'm going to throw a name at you that some people might not have heard of, it was Luke Paul's teammate at the Under 70 World Cup. It's Yaya Basaran, right? Originally from Turkey, came to Melbourne a year or two ago. He's a skilled big. And when you watch him shoot, I watch him at one of you, there's a national performance camp. We watch all the prospects. The shot looks real. He's like a legit 7-1 skilled. He still has to, you know, get those, he's still got those like baby deer type tendencies that young bigs have. But you can tell the potential is there. If he puts it all together and if he can get to that place physically, then the sky's a limit for Basarand.

Yeah, so the NBA, I feel like it's in a really good place right now. The respect level of it that has internationally has grown, and the NBA is looking to the NBL for more than just players. Oh, yeah. Right? So we have a coach in the NBL. His name's Josh King. He's a head coach of the Southeast Melbourne Phoenix.

It's one of the two teams here in Melbourne. 40-ish-year-old American guy, he has this demeanor on the court where he's, He plays, his demeanor is like how he coaches, right? He's got high energy, he's animated, someone dives on the floor next to him. He's almost diving on the floor with him to pick him up. This is something that I don't know if he knows that I know this. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but I have a captive audience, so I'll do it.

I was told that over the offseason when the Portland Trailblazers had a vacant head coach position, they interviewed Josh King. Josh King had a 90-minute Zoom interview with Tom Duff. London, the new owner of the Portland Trailblazers. And my understanding was that that search, they cast a wide net. They did. And Josh King, every year I drop the cash spends of every NBL team. These aren't public. I have to obtain them through multiple sources. The Southeast Melbourne Phoenix were bottom two, but was second last in cash spent. So Josh King is the guy that did the most with the least. They came third last year. Yeah, to go to Portland though, we probably would have to take

a pay coat without cheap as well. but the guy who probably did the most with the least, probably fits the bill in Portland with his own. Well, they said, listen, you can be the head coach, but it's going to be 2850 an hour. But I found it interesting that this guy that he's been through the college system, he's coached in Europe. Now he just signed a multi-year extension with the Phoenix,

but he sat for a very real interview with the owner of the Portland Trailblazers as a legitimate, like, potential candidate for their head coach position. I talked to some of the guys who they interviewed, and sometimes the Blazers, you know, they interviewed a bunch of guys before they hired Mike and Nory, and they would have a Zoom interview, and there would be a number of people on there,

you know, Joe Cronin, who's a general manager, Tom Dundon, who's the owner, you know, a couple other people in their front office, and then the interview would end, maybe it lasted an hour, maybe it lasted two hours, whatever, and then it would be over, and then the candidate would be like,

okay, you know, you just went through this interview, I hope I did really well, and their phone had rang. And it was Tom Dundan, calling to do a second follow interview. I talked to several candidates, but this happened. So he was totally fully invested in that process. But listen, if, you know, I promise you that he will be on other team's lists and definitely be paid attention to. But, I mean, that shows you that, you know, the Blazers had a method to their madness with what they were doing.

They were trying to get a coach that was up-and-cut him coach who would work for a cheap, but they had a reason why they had a process that they were going through. So that's a, I don't know if that gets a question. We talked about a coach leaving the G League to come coach in the NBA. That makes sense to me. But this is recognized one of the top three leagues in the world. You know, it absolutely has the respect of the NBA. And again, like in the G League, it's a weird situation.

You're trying to win, but it's about the individual. It's about the development. You might have three or four guys signed to 10-day contracts and leave your team in the middle of the season, where this is much more about the, you know, the team's success and I think, you know, this is a great situation and a great opportunity for young head coaches. So I, yeah, go ahead.

The person you're talking about there is Jacob Chance. And we were so surprised when he ultimately pivoted back and signed in the MBO because he was the head coach of the Austin Spurs. Yeah. And this isn't just a G-League team. There is like a very defined pathway from the Spurs into the San Antonio Spurs coaching staff and then ultimately climbing the ladder and then treying off into whatever other team. So it surprised us because once you're in that system, in that Spurs ecosystem, you're golden.

And again, working with Wembe, like every day, Victor Wembe Gama, like, I feel like you want to do that. So, again, I hope it speaks to the level of the NBL and what people see this as, from a pathway perspective. So I met Ogen in 2019 in China at the World Cup, which was a traumatic, both a great and traumatic experience for the boomers. the game that they played against the Argentinians in the semi-final is one of the most memorable games I ever attended. Patty Mills I don't even think he was touching the ground. He was so good and so great

and obviously he was an excellent NBA player and I respected him. I'd covered him in finals. But he was doing things and I was like, I don't know how he's doing that. It was so crazy. But I've had an opportunity to cover the boomers across the globe.

in America, in China, in the Philippines. Actually, I didn't make to the Philippines, did they? Brian, I never got to the Philippines. I never saw you in the Philippines. We were in Okinawa in Japan, the home of the North Korean missile warning that happened in the middle of the night. Yes, let's tell this story, please.

We were in Okinawa. It's like an island of Japan, and there's a lot of U.S. military personnel that's based there, and I want to say it's about three and three in the morning and we get one of those like emergency buzzers on the phone. Like we don't really get them here. Like it's like an Amber Alert type thing.

And it's, I check my phone and it's all in Japanese. But it looks scary. There's like, there's lots of like exclamation points. It's like a lot. So then we have to copy that, put into Google Translate. And it tells us that North Korea has just fired a ballistic missile in our direction. Not ideal. And so, and so.

So we don't know what to do, right? We're like sitting duck. I'm in the media hotel. The player hotel's right across the road. I text some players. And they're like, what the hell's going on here? And so I reckon about 12 minutes pass and we get the update. Still in Japanese, we've got to Google Translate that as well.

And it says, it's okay. It's just landed in the Pacific Ocean. We're all good. But the next morning at the coffee shop that every player went to, so that's every Australian player, every Slovenian, every German. It was like everyone's just standing up drinking their coffee. and it's just the talk of the town, the missile strike that just missed us. Imagine when the second message comes in, you're fumbling to get it into the Google

translate, my God, what is this saying? Well, okay, so the reason I bring it up is that we have the World Cup coming up next year. And so I was there in Japan in 21 when the Aussies won their Olympic bronze medal, great performance that they had there. What is the Australian team looking like for next summer, which is right now in Qatar? It's a fascinating team because I look at it and I see three locks. I see Josh Giddy, Dyson Daniels, Chuck Landale. There are other guys who I think are very, very likely to make that team.

I think Tyrese Proctor will make the team. I think if Johnny Furphy is healthy, I think he makes a team. They love Tyrese Proctor in Cleveland. I can tell you, he is already making a big impact. They've cleared some of their roster out to give Tyreys Proctor. Proctor more of a runway. So he's doing very well. I think he's got a great chance to take a step forward this year. And for the boomers, again, there's the Patty Mills void that will need to be filled. That's also a question that needs to be answered, whether Patty Mills is part of the

World Cup team and ultimately him go into a sixth Olympics. That is a question that's yet to be answered. But Tyrese Proctor theoretically fills that. The most interesting question with the boomers is the four spot, because there are so many options that it could be, but all of them are imperfect. So you have Jack McVey started at the four spot in the last major tournament. He is a lights out shooter. He's a no-leave shooter. But defensively, he's not as good as someone like Matisse Thibel, who is a high-level defender, but he's, I wouldn't say he's a non-shooter, but he's not particularly a shooter, especially at the Feeble level. And then you have someone like Johnny Furphy, who's coming off an injury. He's like a legit six-nine. I've stood next to him. He's huge.

But is he at the level? Is Alex Tui the guy? Is he, you know, he's, you know, he's, you know, he's, He can do all those things. He can shoot. He can guard multiple positions. He's big, but is he high level enough to play for the boomers? So whoever fills that spot, it's almost the story of the boomers. And then it's whether Bryce Cotton is part of that team. Bryce Cotton is the star of this league here in the NBL.

He could theoretically be part of that. If you choose Bryce Cotton, can you have him and Patty Mills at the same time? They're very similar players. If you have Bryce Cotton, you can't have Métis Thibel because you can't have two naturalized players. So you almost have to pick. Is there too many wing defender types on the boomers that you just pick a Bryce Cotton? And that means that you don't bring Matisse.

Then if you have Bryce, you don't pick Patty. There are a lot of machinations here that I'm very fascinated about it. Where does Ben Simmons factor into this? Well, Ben Simmons, don't laugh. Listen, I know it's a bit of a sensitive subject. Look, Ben Simmons has not played for the boomers in a major tournament. Which I thought was a terrible mistake. And I thought when he was having his issues, obviously if you're not healthy, you're not healthy.

He's coming off back surgery, he can't play. But there were several summers where there was major events where the boomers were very ready to take him. And I thought it would have been a great opportunity. I mean, it doesn't matter now. And let's be honest. It factors into one of the raps on him, which is like, do you love the game? But he is.

Look, Ben Simmons had a chance to go. He had a chance to go to the 2019 World Cup in China. He didn't take that opportunity. Now, Ben fits, like, one of the mold of one of those guys who could fit in that four spot, who, again, is imperfect. Because you have Ben Simmons, who is a non-shooter. He's big and can presumably still guard and he's athletic. I saw him when he came through here for the boomers camp that wasn't a pretend,

it wasn't an official boomers camp. But he came through here. I saw him. He's huge. He's still athletic. But he's a non-shooter. Can you have a non-shooter on the floor when you have giddy, Dyson? Chuck Landau can shoot it.

It feels like you do need some shooting firepower. Ben Simmons has to play basketball first. There are other guys who have just played way more basketball in the last two, three, four years that you have to put more consideration into. If he plays basketball and he shows he's at the level and he wants to play for the boomers, come on in. But until he plays meaningful basketball,

then you can't make a serious case from being on the team. So the World Cup next year can be wide open. You know, the Americans have not played well in the World Cup since the World Cup switched. They used to have it in the even year between the Olympics. And then they wanted to get it off of the same schedule as the FIFA World Cup. So now it's played the year before the Olympics.

And once that happened, the American players, they just didn't want to play. The top American players didn't want to play in back-to-back summers. And in the last two World Cups, which have been on that schedule, they finished sixth and fourth. And the most important thing to do with the World Cup, other than win it, is to qualify for the Olympics. It is hard to qualify for the Olympics. Only 12 teams qualify for the Olympics. and the Americans have qualified for the last two Olympics by the skin of their teeth, barely the last two Olympics. Yes, they ended up winning the gold medal, but they barely got in.

Well, and that's a selling point that you tell your players, do you want to be on the senior team? Come to the World Cup because we need to qualify for the Olympics. But if you're hosting, you do not need to qualify. In fact, France played poorly at the 2003 World Cup and would not have qualified for the Olympics, but they were hosting so they were in. And so the Americans don't have the draw of saying come qualify for the Olympics. And it is scheduled to be played in Qatar in August and September, where it is slightly warm. And so the sales pitch to the Americans, I'm not sure he's going to be there. We'll see. And, you know, back in the days, you know, the Americans lost in 2004 in Athens,

and they came up with this thing that you had to play in multiple events in a row. Like you, you, if you don't, If you want to play in Beijing, you better be in Japan in 2006. If you want to play in London, you better be in Turkey in 2010. That rule existed and that happened. The U.S. won in 2010. They haven't won since. Actually, they did win in 14. No, they did win in 14.

I don't remember. They think they did. Anyway, now when it's back-to-back years, the Americans don't feel like if they have to that commitment, that their players are going to do it, at least some of them. So do you think Team USA is not going to send it? anyone notable to this World Cup because they don't have to qualify for the Olympics?

I think it's going to I think it's going to be a bunch of young players. I think there will be a lot of young guys who are trying to, you know, prove themselves, but I don't think there's going to be, and we'll see, like, I don't even know how many of the old are going to be in the... Well, just like the last World Cup,

like Jalen Brunson was, he didn't play well, but Jalen Brunson was on that team. Ann Edwards was on that team. And Edwards was on that team. You know, Tyrese Halliburton was on that team. And it was a step forward for a lot of those guys. Like, you know, I don't know if that's going to happen. I think maybe guys like Cooper Flag, for example, you know, guys who you anticipate

kind of be in the next wave. But I don't know how many guys who have played in previous Olympics. I remember the 2019 team. It was guys like, Kimber Walker was on the team, but Jalen Brown was on that team. Jason Tatum, Donovan Mitchell. Like, there were a lot of real guys on that team, but they weren't stars yet. They hadn't fully developed into what they are now. So that's curious.

For the boomers, Australia sort of just gets to sit back because the top Oceania team from the World Cup gets through and generally Australia does finish higher than New Zealand. And I'll say this as well. We've spoken about this Brian about Gordy Herbert and his rule for his Canadian team going into this cycle. He has the... He can afford to not let Jamal Murray play

because he's not committing to the entire cycle. I don't know if Adam Kepaun, the new boomers head coach, is able to say to any of the Australian guys like, hey, like Josh Giddy, if you don't play in all of these things, including the qualifying games, then you can't play. Australia will take what it can get. Yeah, so Gordy Herbert, who is the coach of the new coach of Canada, he's been the coach of Germany, and Germany, he put down a rule that said, if you want to play in Paris, in 24, you've got to play in the Euro championships, and you've got to play in the World Cup.

And that progression led Germany to win the Euro championships and the World Cup, but he told NBA players, multiple NBA players who didn't show up, sorry, we don't need you in the Olympics. And he took over the Canadian team. He is Canadian, and he told the same rule. I want to see you in 26. If you want to show your face in Los Angeles in 28, I want to see you in 26 and I'm going to see you in 27.

And Shade Goodless Alexander was out there this year playing for them. Two straight MVPs. The two-time defending MVP went and played in World Cup qualification games because he wanted to qualify for 28. And some Canadians, including Jamal Murray, an all-star NBA champion, max NBA player, has been scratched from the list. And the Canadians feel like they can do that.

That's how he operates. That's not the way that the U.S. operates. Let me ask both of you a question about this boomer's team. I'm curious what you think. Let's say a team gets selected. There's 11 guys. You have a nine-man rotation. You've got guy 10, 11, and you have a 12th spot.

And it's basically a free spot. guy probably is not going to play. If everything goes to plan, this guy doesn't play. But he's there for, what, experience for vibes, whatever. You have two options. You can take Luke Paul, the up-and-coming star of Australian basketball, or you can take Matthew Delavadova, the 35-year-old who... You hit me with a 2016 cab, old, and it's not fair. I know I did. I did that on purpose. Can I take Joe Engels? I don't know if Joe Ingalls wants to go. He's going to be in his 40s. Delhi is someone who, my prediction is that Matthew Delavadova will be part of this World Cup team

and he will scheme his way onto the Olympic team. And I say scheme in the kindest way because as the 12th man, if you had to put Delhi on the floor, he would go and smother the best perimeter player and the best post player on the other team. If you saw him guard Jack McBay here in the NBA, he absolutely neutralized him. So he would go and do that for two minutes if he has to. You can trust him to bring the ball over the floor. And if he doesn't play a minute, he will wave a towel better than anyone who's ever waved a towel in their life. That's true.

And I will say, I'm looking forward to the first time Delhi defends Luke. I want to see how that experience goes. I got nothing but wonderful things to say about Matthew Delavadova. And I learned when I came to Australia that he is known as the Stephstopper. I didn't know that. But now that is what he has been bestowed in Australia as a stepstopper. And most recently, the Bryce Stopper. Oh, is that right?

he was the guy who he did his, he was, there are some guys in the NBL who are long athletic wings they don't, they're not close to what Delver Dover does to Bryce Cotton as far as making his life a nightmare. A five game series. Bryce Cotton just had to work so, so hard

for every single show. Well, Delhi, he is he's, he brings his Australian, his Australianness to the NBA in many ways. One, he never ever complains about getting hurt and kick him in the groin. elbow him in the head

he never he never looks phased at all because you know you do not if you're Australian you do not show like you're hurt right that is not the rugby way you do not show injury secondly the man guzzles coffee my god is Matthew Delavadova love coffee he is like one of the elite coffee drinker well he's not in the NBA now but he was one of the elite coffee drinkers in the

NBA I feel like that was you know bringing in you know sending the message I can do this as an Australia it feels like every year daily has like a new tonic that is the thing that helps him. Over the past couple years in the NBL, he's gone through the grounding phase where he doesn't wear shoes.

He's gone through an oysters phase where he eats lots of oysters. I feel like not wearing shoes probably would hurt more than it would help. But it makes you one with the earth. I think that's what grounding is. Okay. I got no idea.

He doesn't wear shoes when? Oh, like as in recreation. I'm sure he wears him on the court. Yes. Yeah, okay. He wears the terrific deli one. But I'd just say, like, I could see him like, defending.

in bare feet and not caring. I can see that. Your toes won't survive that. He's been through the Abo Toast phase. He's been through the steak phase where he eats. I remember I spoke to Kendrick Davis, his superstar teammate. They hung out together in L.A. last offseason. And Kendrick told him he's like, man, Daly's kids just eat steaks all the time. Like, my kid's eating like chocolates and candy.

I look over at Dellie's kid. He's just got like a whole steak just like gnawing into it. I believe that was. This is Australia, not New Zealand. But you know, Stephen Adams thing is he eats these huge stakes with no utensils. Just with his... Well, Stephen Adams was born in Australia, but he was lost to the Kiwis.

It lost them. Is that true? I believe so. Let's fact check that. Or maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong about that. How are we not? Jackson, cut that out. How are we not adopted Stephen Adams? I thought you were going to ask him to cut out the deli's a step stop before it gets back to America. Oh, well, I mean, that was an amazing moment to be a part of that.

and Deli had to be taken out on a stretcher with two IVs in his one RV in each arm, but he played the next night and was drinking coffee. So he was fine, ultimately. But, well, thank you for telling us all your stories. I really appreciate. You really are. I've actually, McMahon, I've actually tried to steal him to the United States, but, you know, ESPN Australia won't let him go.

Fact check. Stephen Adams is born in New Zealand. I made the mistake. I said I was wrong. Meanwhile, by the way, I'm trying to compliment you, and he's like looking up, you know, to try to prove me wrong. Okay, I got it wrong. I can't pronounce the name of the city, but he was born there. Five points to Australia.

I love that. Stephen Adams very famously told me because it's on a lake that's salt, filled with sulfur. He said he grew up in a town that smells like farts. Fats. But Stephen Adams is a legendary eater. Absolutely. Yeah. And so we're going to see him in Macau.

We're going to end in this dream. We'll be in Macau. And, you know, we'll see how many... Invite him out for a steak or three. Man, I don't want to pick up that tab. But anyway, Ongan, we were big fans of yours. ESPN, Australia, won't let him go, but it's always great to see you. Thank you so much for coming.

And I just want to say that we have had a great time here in Melbourne. We want to thank Courtside for hosting us. This venue is truly amazing. I've been all over the world. I've never seen anything like this. Maybe in a Chinese mall where they have like seven different. Right. Like in the Chinese malls, each brand has like their own store.

But I've not seen anything that has a mall on one roof like this. With this court, they've got two other beautiful courts plus a bunch of other hoops back there. Like unbelievable facilities. So this venue is in this area in Melbourne that is, you know, it's a cool area. they have like there's literally a thousand Nike or a thousand hats out there It's unbelievable

They have all these courts This is their show corps But they have other courts They have weight room They have a barbershop You should go to the barbershop You know, I don't know In Aussie dollars

You may not want to pay what it's going to cost And they have Believe it or not I don't pay for Erica Yeah I'm aware They have Hold tub, hot tub here Like this venue is unbelievable So thank you so much

to Courtside for hosting us. Thank you so much to all of you for coming out here on a Friday night and helping us take our show International. He sold out this event. The fire marshal wouldn't let us bring any more people in here, so we're really proud to have been with all of you. Thank you to Cole Anthony. Thank you to Luke Paul.

Thank you to our producer Jackson, who's sitting over there. Our man, Jackson. I can't tell you how much Jackson had to do to get us here. Thank you to the birthday boy, Derek. Maybe we'll celebrate your birthday later on. And thanks again for having us, Melbourne. We will be back. It will be better than ever.

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