Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Huge Response From Wemby & Spurs Forces Game 7 In OKC + Big Knicks Injury Update

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the Spurs forcing a Game 7 with a dominant performance in Game 6 over the Thunder. We break down how Victor Wembanyama set the tone early, the up and down play in this series, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s struggles and the huge run that decided the game. Then, the crew previews what to expect in a huge Game 7 before talking a significant injury to Mitchell Robinson for the Knicks. Finally, we tackle the NBA’s now approved draft lottery reform including the potential pros and cons. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Volvo is leaving the chaos of rush hour outside. Start by settling into your saddle-stitched Napa leather seats. Notice the open space around you, uncluttered, elegant, intentional, warm ambient light, and natural wood details to ground you. This is Volvo's Scandinavian sanctuary for every journey. Learn more at VolvoCars.caps.cault optional features mentioned. Hello and welcome to the HOOP collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing just after midnight on Friday morning.

Joining me from New York City, where he was covering the blow-by-blow of the lottery reform today, and I'm sure loving every minute of it, Timbottems. Hello, everybody. Is it true that your son, Dorian, made his debut on an NBA Zoom today to ask questions about the lottery reform? I don't know if it was his debut. but he was on the Zoom and he didn't fall asleep, and he didn't cause a ruckus. So I'll take that as a win.

I think I would have fallen asleep. All right, joining us from San Antonio, where he always causes a ruckus, where the Spurs forced Game 7 with a 118-91 victory. They're the ThunderR scoring back in the double digits again. And we will have Game 7 in this series and headed back up I-35. Just kidding, is Bam McMahon.

Howdy, partners? I can make my way back to Brittown. The question is, will it be the last time this season? We shall see, certainly, this series has had wild swings from game to game. I don't know that this buttwopin that the Thunder took tonight will carry over, but it was a pretty thorough buttwopin. Well, let me just say that I think it was a really smart thing for the Spurs in their game plan to hit eight three-pointers in the first quarter.

And it was still a game at halftime. It was still a game at half time despite that. That's the thing, man. Look, you were there, you were feeling it. I want you to describe it. But in the second quarter, the Spurs were playing with incredible emotion, like bordering on bubbling over. Just because you could tell the passion, you know, their crowd was into it. They were, they were, you know, they don't like the thunder.

They're, you know, they got, you know, Carter Bryant is, Carter Bryant is, is throwing blocks in the back. And Devin Vassell is trash talking. up Shea Gilder, Chet Holmgren's face and all this stuff. And I thought the thunder, as is their style, completely maintain their composure and just slowly got some stops and methodically got back into it. I, McMahon, I don't know about you. I did not see a 20-0 run coming in the third quarter. No, no.

And like you said, the Spurs shot the lights out early on. And I think OKC had a chance to make it a one possession game there at the end of second quarter, but still, you know, a single-digit game going into halftime, considered how hot the spurs were shooting the ball early on. The Thunder went into the locker room feeling pretty good. They might as well have just stayed in the locker room, though, because they got completely just dominated and humiliated in the third quarter. And, you know, this is the second straight time that they've had a really poor offensive

performance here in San Antonio. That's, you know, that's part of it. Shea is in statistically the worst shooting funk over these last four games, and he's had since he's a murder star. Yeah, Shea's in hell. Shea's in hell. And, you know, and he says. Stefan Castle and Victor Wenbanyama have put him in hell.

They can call it Area 51. I call it hell. Oh, right. Area 51, hell. It ain't a place. That's a good slogan for it. They should steal that from you, man. It ain't a place that's fun to be.

You know, I have to come about it. And he basically said, hey, you know, I'm taking shots that I've been taking. And essentially said, you know, at this point, I got to trust my work. I got to trust my game. I got to trust who I am. You know, it's too late in the season to try to change and, you know, live and die by it. But they need a bounce back game from Shea in game seven. And quite frankly, I don't know if Jalen Williams, J. Dubb should be on the floor in game.

That's a real conversation that I want to have in a second. Let's focus more on the game. But that leave the whole theater amount around him playing. I thought that the Spurs checked the boxes tonight. And what I mean by that is they didn't put the Thunder on the line, which, by the way, the Spurs have way more free throws in this series than the Thunder. As did the Lakers in the last series. Right.

Coming into this game, the Thunder were 11th in free throws per game out of the 16 playoff teams. But really when it says don't put guys on the line, it really means not put Shea on the line. Shea took three free throws tonight. Right. And he was six of 18 from the floor. And I didn't feel like, like, it wasn't like, I mean, I thought the Carter-Bryon play was a 15-yard penalty in Texas. But, you know, I was a little surprised that wasn't a flagrant. It wasn't like the officials were, I mean, I didn't feel like they were letting the Spurs commit hand-headed.

If the Spurs are a lot, I mean, there's all this talk about all the Thunderplay defense. The Spurs do the same thing. And if the Spurs are allowed to be physical, they have an advantage because their guys are huge and athletic and fast and big and strong. And like, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying like you, I didn't think the game was poorly officiated. But if the game is going to be called in a way where both teams can be physical, that's an advantage for the bigger, stronger team, which is what the spurs are. My only issue with the officiating was really a pretty short crew. I mean, an extremely short crew. Jesus Christ.

A couple guys who were five foot single digits out there. But no, the officiating was not a factor in this game. The Thunder shot, 37% from the floor, 25% from three-point range. You're not going to win games doing that. And then, you know, the Spurs, they cooled off. But, like, they came out lighting up. But, dude, the Thunder scored 13 points in the third quarter. There was a 20-0 run in the third quarter.

That's when this game just... It disappeared. By a couple minutes left in the third quarter, I'm booking a flight to get back to OKC. It was a lot like Game 4 where, I mean, game 4 really got away in the final minute of the first half. and then the start of the third quarter. This game, it was the third quarter.

I mean, it was the same thing. You get to halftime, you're thinking, man, you know, in game four, it was through 23 minutes, through this game was through 24 minutes, thinking, hey, the spurs are kind of all over the place. They're a young team playing with a lot of emotion. You could see it throughout the game, and Brian mentioned that in group chat. I thought he was right. Like, the spurs were running hot, which sometimes is good and sometimes it's bad. And the thunder seemed.

It's not always good in the second quarter. Well, no, but I just mean, like, they're, they're an emotional team, and they tend to ride that positively a lot of the time, but sometimes you can get the better of them. But the Thunder seemed cool, calm and collected and in a pretty good place going into halftime. And like you said, McMahon, they came out in the third quarter and just got absolutely trucked. And, you know, I mean, for as great as the series started, it has kind of just swung back and forth in pretty lopsided games the last few games. see if game sevens tend to be ugly and close. We'll see if we'll see if game seven of this series will be. Well, I remember game seven against the nuggets last year.

It was ugly. It wasn't close. It wasn't close. Game seven against the Pacers, unfortunately, the memory that will always be seared in your mind from now was Albert going down. It was closer than anybody in Oklahoma City wants to admit. There was a stretch in the early fourth quarter where it was a little tightening of the home team's performance.

That's right. It wasn't a runaway. Listen, we'll see. We will see if the Thunder's experience pays any dividends in game seven. They won a couple of them last year. Obviously, this is the first go-round for the Spurs in this situation. But the Spurs ain't scared of the bright lights. I can promise you that.

I do think that Victor, Victor came out in the first quarter. He had 11 points, five rebounds, a steal in a block. And so I do think he came out with the mindset that you need. It was actually kind of reminiscent as I was watching the Spurs play. I was like, I haven't seen a team play like this in an elimination game since the other night in Cleveland. And I mean the Knicks, not the cast. But like the Spurs came out with what you'd expect in this type of game. And Victor had an excellent game, but I feel like he did most of his quote-unquote damage right out of the gate when he was able to set that tone.

Yeah. And by the way, he played 28 minutes, which when you're kind of monitoring the fatigue, especially for a guy who played the most over a five-game stress that he ever has. over any five-game stretch. Him being able to kick his feet up down the stretch in this game. Good point. You know, might help him be ready

to go full blast in a game seven. Jay also only 28 minutes. It didn't help in game five, though. So, I mean, that has been kind of the weird thing about the series is his energy has really gone up and down from game to game. I agree.

And even in this game, like, obviously, we've talked about it, when his three-pointers going in, like, good luck generally, right? he still was floating around the perimeter, shooting a lot of jumpers. He at least started the game going inside. No, he did. He knocked down two threes and like, that's right.

Or you could settle into your seat. He basically only, I mean, he didn't have a fun memory there. Like, obviously game one is like three, didn't he have three paint baskets in the first quarter? I mean, I know. He had 11 points. It was three for four from the field. So no. Yeah.

He didn't have a left. I take it all back. Just edit that out and make me look good. Thank you. I, it'll be interesting. I mean, look, game one, like we talked about coming out of game one. Like, the thing that was so impressive about that was he was like, I'm going to go to the rim and I'm going to dominate the paint in this game, right?

And like, he hasn't really done that to quite the same degree, the last four games in particular. And it will be fascinating to see how he comes out in game seven, because he's mostly just floated around the perimeter the last few games. And look, he might come out and hit six threes and it might not matter in game seven. He could easily go crazy from the perimeter and their Dargaz could hit shots and they could win. I'm not saying they can't win that way. But he has steadily drifted out to the perimeter as a series has gone on.

Maybe some of that's because I say Hardinstein's on him. Maybe it's other things. But that is going to be something to watch in game seven for me is like can he establish an inside presence early on? Because if this is a low scoring slug fest, which is my guess is what it's going to be. Like, you know, the more of him at the rim, I would say the better for the spurs. By the way, could this be a situation? Obviously, we've got to see how Game 7 plays out. Could Victor and Minyama be the conference finals MVP

and the Thunder advance to the finals? I haven't thought about that. You're the voter, not us. At this point, I think it's a serious consideration. I mean, maybe Shay comes out. What if Caruso has a big game seven? Yeah, Caruso right now, if the Thunderwin, Caruso would be my selection for,

I'll say, I think Caruso's been the Thunders MVP in the series. Victor's clearly been the best player in a series. Now, could Shea come out and have just a masterpiece of a Game 7 and wipe away everything I just said? Absolutely. But depending on how Game 7 plays out, I could see the Spurs going home and Wembe having an MVP trophy as a Constellation Prize. I'm sure he'll be very excited about that. I mean, I voted for Jimmy Butler a couple of years ago when he lost in a series. Got a lot of grief for it.

I remember that. So you remember that, McMahon? Yeah, I gave him hell for it. Yes, you did. That was when he had that 46 points in game six in Boston, right? And then they came down to Miami and they almost blew it at the end. I think there was a three in the air. Yeah, Jimmy took that three on the wing.

Yeah, yeah. But like midway through the fourth quarter, I'm sitting with Bon temps and he's like, hey, what do you think about me voting for Jimmy? I was like, hey, man, you do you. I can understand if somebody voted for Victor. I mean, I think a lot of this to me will probably, like you said, come down to this game seven. I mean, we should probably watch 48 more minutes at least. Yeah, but I would say going into game seven, it's a valid, it's a valid thing. Like when you look at how disrupted Oklahoma City's offenses whenever Victor's on the court,

it's hard for me to say that it's not something you should do. And again, like Shea hasn't been that good. I'm with you. I think if Oklahoma City wins and Caruso plays well, barring some insane performance from Shea, I would vote for Caruso because he's been incredible, particularly in the wins in the series. But I could understand if somebody voted for Victor. And look, Shea has been under 40% from the floor in four straight games for the first time, really since he's established himself as a star, right?

And that's, to me, that's a staff that is indicative of Wimby's dominance on the defensive end. Like, Wimby's got a lot to do with that, you know? She's, again, She'll tell you, hey, I'm taking shots that I take all the time and make all the time. He's not getting a lot of clean looks. He's not, even some of the shots he hit tonight. there's one he hit over Carter Bryan when it was great defense and he just well he hit one shot over the top of Victor with him all over him that it was impossible angle he made it well that's a thing like you look at the way they they're playing right he's either got Dylan Harper who's big long and fast on him he's got Saffan Castle who's big long and fast on him he's got Carter Bryant who's even bigger longer and faster on him even though he's a rookie and still makes plenty of mistakes and then oh by the way sometimes Victor gets switched on to it or or if he can slip by those guys Victor's waiting back there. I mean, there's just, there's somebody coming at him all the time.

And he is not, you know, he has not looked the same, like the same guy that he's always been. It's a credit to the defense of spurs have played. And I mean, it's, I mean, they're relentless. And they're, I mean, it's the same thing we saw in the regular season. Their positional size across the board really gives the thunder a lot of trouble. And it, it sort of negates the thing Thunder are always able to do, which is just like outspeed and, like, reactional.

act everybody because these guys are bigger and just as fast at a lot of spots. Well, and the Thunder are without their second and third best creators. And I'm going to say they're without, they're without Jalen Williams right now. Hold on that for a second. One thing

we'll get to that. I think it'll be one second. Someday. I think a big thing that happened today was Dylan Harper. Oh, that was a huge development. And looking like game one, Dylan Harper again. That's been a long time coming. Yeah, Dylan Harper, Stefan Castle, Victor Women, Yama, they're going to be together for a long, long time.

I don't know if they'll end up hanging banners in this arena. I bet they will, but they'll damn sure hang some banners. This one's going to be around. The new arena is not going to be built like 2031, right? I think 2030s when it's happening. Okay. I would bet on the new arena have a working Wi-Fi. I sure as hell hope so.

Will the new arena have bats? It's not going to be down by the rodeo, so hope will the new arena have snakes? It won't be hanging in the new arena. No. Will the new arena have air conditioning? I'm pretty sure I'll have air conditioning. It is going to be new. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

This episode is brought to you by Activia. You might already be eating yogurt, but not all yogurts are created equal. Activia contains over one billion probiotics per serving to survive and reach the gut alive. When it comes to gut health, Activia is the number one family doctor, recommended probiotic yogurt brand. Choose Activia. Feel good from the inside out. Visitactivia.ca for more details.

This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature,

For this price, moment. Old Navy's drape you denham wide leg. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands, championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities

for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit laurel.com to learn more. Okay, so McMahon, can you take us through the J-dub, Jalen Williams saga that took place before this game tonight and what you saw from him when he did get on the court? Yeah, and so we got a little whisper that he was on the active roster,

but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be in uniform, right? He just kind of leaves open the possibility. And then what had happened in the previous three games is he went through his little pre-game, And then, you know, after that wrapped up, 45 minutes left on the clock, that injury report comes out and he's ruled out. Well, this one, he was still questionable. 30 minutes, still questionable. You know, okay, the starting lineup comes, he's active,

but the starting lineups the same. So, you know, report that. And I'm checking with people and I'm told, hey, it's, he's still questionable. It's not been determined that he's going to play. Layup lines start, I don't know what, 17 minutes on the clock, whatever, something like that. He's not out there. The other 12 active guys are out there. He doesn't come out for the layup lines until there's five minutes left on the clock,

but he's in uniform. Okay, comes out, hey, he is, then he's officially ruled available, not the starting lineup. And then there was, you know, I was wondering, like, is this decoy, is this like gamesmanship? He finally checks in as the ninth man with like four minutes and change left in the first quarter. It didn't go well, man. It didn't go well. You know, has a turnover where he just kind of boots the ball out of bounds. It didn't look like he was moving well.

It wasn't really bald. It looked like a guy who, he hadn't been through a return to play a protocol. And he looked like a guy who had no rhythm, no burst, and frankly, no business being on the floor. And that didn't change. The guy played 10 minutes. He had a point, a assist, or I guess an assist to be, grammatically correct um he had one foul two turnovers and was 0 for one from the floor missed a

three badly they were minus 18 in his 10 minutes i mean frankly i understand like giving it a go i think there's got to be some serious consideration to whether even if he feels like he can go in game seven i don't know if he put him out on the floor with zero rhythm without any bursts there's you know, there was one, I think it was a turnover where he, or maybe he passed out of it, but he went to try to explode at the rim and just had no kind of lift. I don't know, man. And then, look, we called out Victor Wimonyama for not talking postgame the other night. These circumstances are a lot different.

But J. Dub did the little backdoor cut thing. I was in, I think this was when Shea was talking. I'm not absolute certain of that. It might have been Caruso at the podium. but I was in the podium room. They brought Casein Wallace to talk to the group. The group goes to Casein Wallace and he did the backdoor cut out the door

and off into the night. So, you know, I can imagine how frustrated he is. He wasn't anything even remotely close to being himself tonight. It was also the first time that he came off the bench since December of his rookie year, December of 2022.

but, you know, hey, in fairness, if we're going to call Wimbunyama out for not talking after he has a dud, different circumstances, but same thing for Jayne and Williams tonight. More concerning, though, is just that in his return, he did not look anything close to being ready. So now what do you do? Again, I think they've got to have serious discussions about whether...

I don't know if you can put him out there because it's game seven. You just can't... I just... I would say no. I don't think, I mean, here's a thing. I don't think you tip your hand. I think you dress him. Well, no kidding. They wouldn't tip his hand if he had a broken leg.

They would call him questionable. This series is such a physically demanding series. And both these teams, the thunder are a little bit faster. Obviously, the spurs are bigger. But they're, like, these teams are so physically imposing on both ends that you can't be going into this thing at half speed and have it any chance to survive. And that, I don't mean that as any criticism at all, Jamie Williams. God bless them for trying to play today. Like, obviously, this is the time of year when everybody wants to be out there.

And if you're out there on one hamstring, like, you just don't have any burst. And this Spurs team, to your point, McBan, this is not a team you can, like, guile your way around against. Like, they're coming at you. There's a lot of burst on that San Antonio. Yeah. And they're coming at you with 1,000 miles an hour all the time. Like, they're relentless in that way. and it's just, I just don't,

I think the thunder have to look at it and say, like, and look, maybe he miraculously improves over the next two days, but if he's anywhere where he was today going into game seven, I would not try it again, if it was me.

They have a formula where they can win without him. This is not like, you know, they have no chance without him. Especially at home. They just did it in game five. Yeah, secondly, in a game seven, look, maybe he will, they will watch him in practice

or he'll shoot around on Saturday and be like, you know what, he's 10 times better, as you said. But you can't afford even three bad minutes, two bad minutes. You have two bad minutes. You get outscored 8 to 2. That can be the difference in the game stuff. Well, he got outscored by 18 in the 10 minutes he played. Well, that's not good.

Shane was minus 28 and his 28. We can go down the list. Dubbs, as Daggonaut said, you know, Dub's struggles were not the reason that the Thunder lost, but he didn't help. They didn't help. No. All right. Well, I don't know what's going to happen on Saturday,

but I know it's going to be a, it's going to be an interesting one. We actually, game one was unbelievable, and then the games coming since then have not been that great. It kind of reminds me of the 2016 finals where it was not, it was not a particularly close series until game seven. Yeah, I mean, game one was an epic game, and now we've got a game seven, but the road from one to seven has not been,

it hasn't been pretty. Yeah, it's more of it about, you know, health drama, and away from, you know, other stuff rather than the games since then. And listen, man, that crowd in OKC is going to be on fire. And Victor Weminiama is going to feel some venom. You know, you've got the thing that it kind of went unnoticed,

really, at the end of game five. Now you've got the video coming out where he's saying hard fouls. Plumley comes in there and gives up... Do we know he said hard fouls? That's what the video says. Yeah. There was video, Victor, saying that. We mentioned this the other night, but we're, I'm sorry, I did not see where,

what they read his lips. Okay, that's new information to me. In case you don't know, fourth quarter, everyone's waving the white flag in game five. Victor comes out. You see him speak to both Mason Plumley and, and Bismack-Bionbo on their way onto the court. And then both of them, one of them, you know, Plumley, hits McCain in the back and later gets upgraded to a flagrant. And then Bionbo just plants McCain.

It was a, it was not a dirty play, but it was different. Well, it was just a good hard foul. I mean, in garbage time, that's borderline dirty. And Plumley. No, I agree. Well, the referees, that's where you got to, like, you got to step in. Plumley's thing was, you know, a blind side, you know. There's a kidney shot.

Orm shiver to, yeah, come on. That, that was very cheap. You know, you know, like, it was Lester shot that knocked Cade Cunningham, that punctured Cade Cunningham's lung, honestly. Yeah. So. Yeah. So anyways, you know, Wimby is public enemy number one in OKC. He does not seem to mind that.

I don't know if he's going to wear his monk fit there that worked out for him a night. Did you see, did you see his walk-in outfit? I did. Yeah. So I don't know if he's going to, you know, support that thing in OK, He's undefeated in it, but the Oklahomaers are going to be riled up. I can promise you that. And I don't just mean the ones with media credentials.

It's going to be a scene. It's going to be a fascinating event. Game sevens are rare things, especially when you got two great teams like this. I mean, it's got to- Sorry, I'm just watching the video of this alleged hard fouls. I don't know. Really? I don't know if I can convict on that. Okay. Well, at best, you're going to have a hung jury. Well, I know it's going to. The case could not be heard in Oklahoma City.

No, good. They have to relocate. Even that's where it happened. All right, McMahon, you've got to go do some work. And McPont-Temp's and I have some other business to take care of. All right, we've gotten rid of McMahon for the time being. Had some, wasn't expecting news from the Knicks today, Bontems. No, that was not either. that no news that could have come out today from the Knicks could have been good news. Yeah, it's hard to imagine what could have been good, given they're in the middle of a very lengthy break. Right. So reported numerous places, including from Shams, that Mitchell Robinson fractured his pinky finger.

And status is uncertain for the playoffs. Now, not all pinky injuries are created equal. There's a lot of different ways you can break your finger. Some of them, it's not that serious. you buddy wrap it and deal with the pain. Some of it requires surgery and then it gets more complex. Some of it depends on if there's ligament damage. So I would just say this.

Until further information becomes available, I would be very cautious to assume anything. Assume that he'll play through it. Assume that he'll come back middle of the series. Assume that he'll be out. I would just not do that. However, this is a Knicks team that was fully healthy and now faces some adversity.

The first adversity they've felt in a long time, time, Bontems. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a real sucker punch for the Knicks to the gut when you, you know, obviously we'll see if Mitchell Roberts did your point, if he's able to play or not, but still, this is a team that hasn't lost in 35 days. They're flying high. They had this unbelievable, unbelievable stretch of play. And to then have that be followed up with this unfortunate news on Thursday that, you know,

Mitch has got this injury and it's unclear what his status is. Even if he is able to play, obviously, he's not going to be fully 100%. Now, I will say if he is able to play, if there was a guy in the Knicks who was going to have some sort of hand injury like this, Mitchell Robinson probably is the best guy for that to happen to, given what the extent of his game is. He's not exactly going to be dribbling much. He's mostly going to be grabbing rebounds. In fact, he should not dribble just in general. I would forgive him.

Well, yes. correct. So, you know, from that standpoint, if he can catch the ball and grab rebounds and still dunk it, you know, that's probably enough for him to be able to get out there. But yeah, it just, it's a, you know, everybody here in New York is obviously riding high with the Knicks right now and the Knicks are playing out of their minds. And it's, it's an unfortunate injury for him. But hopefully, like you said, you know, hopefully Mitch is able to play and without too much of a limitation when this thing gets started in, I guess, five or six days from now. Yeah, the Knicks don't have tremendous depth in the front court. When they've had to use a third center in the playoffs, they've, sometimes they've gone to Ariel Huck Porty, and he's had, I guess, a couple of decent shifts, but it hasn't sort of been great. And at times their third center, is, frankly, has been O.G.N. Noby.

Yeah, I mean, if, if, if Mitchell is limited, I assume that will be the main way it goes. I mean, they could try to play Jeremy Soand. and they could try to play Ariel Horty. Sohan didn't even play in game four in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean, again, I think the option is going to be playing OG more and playing smaller more, I would think. And look, some of this will depend on who they play, right? If they get the Oklahoma City Thunder,

the Thunder tend to play smaller anyway, right? So you could probably get away a little bit more often with playing either OG at the 5 or one of those other guys, whatever. If they're playing Victor Weniamah in the spur, and they're playing Luke Cornett, and maybe the spurs run those guys both out there together, et cetera. Yes, then you're obviously going to need as much size as possible, and that could be a real problem of Mitch is either not able to play

or is it less than 100%. Yeah, the fact that it's his right hand, I mean, was it going to affect his free throw shooting? I mean, you know, I don't know. You know, he's a role player, obviously, and, you know, Some series, he's more effective than others. But I don't know. You know, the Knicks are going to be the underdog, even if it's not by much, and you just want everybody that you can have.

For sure. No doubt. And we'll wait for more. He's actually not having as, you know, he's not having the same sort of impact this postseason as he did last year. His rebounds have been down a little bit. That said, he has gotten the Knicks extra possessions. And he's gotten them in the bonus multiple times. I mean.

Oh, that's true. That's a good point. Kenny Atkinson, I think, really box. that multiple times in the conference finals, fouling, you know, sort of committing fouls to get the Knicks into the bonus while Mitch Roberts was on the court, so then they could take Mitchell Robinson out of the game. The whole point of doing that is to foul him when he's going to the free throw line. Instead, they were doing it before they were in the bonus.

So the Knicks can get to the bonus, get him out of the game and then take advantage of it. But, yeah, I mean, it'll be, obviously, this is going to be now a very important storyline to watch between now and the start of the finals. and probably will be a story to watch during the finals to see both if Mitch is able to go to begin with and if he is, how he's able to play, and if there's any issues along the way if he does. So Mitch's 28 of 38 shooting in the playoffs,

is that good? It's pretty good. About 75%. It's pretty good. Out of the 28 baskets, 21 of them are dunks. I'm surprised it's only 21. I would have thought it was 25 or more.

The other ones have got to be less than three feet. I would imagine his, his, His shot distance average is pretty short. Let's see here. Let's see what basketball reference tells me. Yes, it appears that of his 38 shots, 36 of them, have come within three feet of the rim. That sounds about right.

I'm guessing it's 28 of 36. 20 to 38. No, I meant 28 to 36 from within three feet. Good question. I don't have that data right in front of it. Yes, correct. I'm just looking at it. He has not made a shot outside three feet.

That sounds about right. Nor should he. Correct, correct. His job is to dunk the ball a lot, which he's good at. Right. Okay. So the other significant story that happened outside game six on Thursday was the NBA passing lottery reform, the so-called 3-21 program. You've written about this and covered this extensively, LeBon-Temps.

So we'll yield the floor to you. How do you want to cover this? Do you want me to explain it? Well, you are a seasoned professional. And so what do you, well, just me, what do you want? Do you want to walk through the whole thing? What do you want to do it? Like when I'm on, let me just say, see, I, like right now I'm preparing what I'm going to say on

get up tomorrow. And I'm not really going to go over all the percentages. Get a seal for me per usual? No, I'm not going to steal from you. I'm saying I'm not going to go over all the percentages because I think when you go over all the percentages, people's eyes, especially the get up audience, his eyes glaze over. Correct. What I'm going to say is it incentivizes winning.

I think what it does more than incentivizing winning, because it doesn't really. Of course, yes, it does. What it really does is disincentivize losing, which is a very different thing. I mean, okay. I think it's a legitimate difference. Jackson, it does not incentive, what does it do on ties?

What is it, does incentivize ties? There's still going to be a large swath of teams that are not going to be motivated to win games late in the season. However, what you are going to have is you're going to have the teams at the very bottom, those bottom three teams, are going to be incentivized to win to try to get out of the bottom three. Look, as I've talked about since February, and I wrote about this, I would have preferred a system that truly incentivized winning or just wins were what drove things over the final couple months of the season, because that would solve the vast majority

of the problems that existed in the current system without having to change the whole system. The NBA clearly was not willing to do that, so instead they came up with a, I think, decent system, albeit a very complicated one for the average fan to follow along with. I think this will largely solve the problems the NBA wanted to solve, which was getting rid of rampant tanking in the final couple months of the season. Yeah, it's going to hopefully get rid of a team in October or in June deciding we're going to try and lose 65 games. Well, look, the team that got the number one pick in the draft, the Washington Wizards, lost 27 or final 28 games, and they traded for Trey Young and Anthony Davis,

and they played a combined five games, all right? That will not happen again, like that formula that shouldn't happen anymore. That's the point of the system, right, is to eliminate those situations from happening. I don't think it incentivizes winning because I do think there's a whole bunch of teams in the middle of the bad teams that will be very happy to just keep losing games and making sure they're somewhere around 7th, but there's less incentive for them to lose every game, like for example, Memphis Grizzlies did this past year when they were also egregiously tag in to get from 12th to 6th.

There's a lot less incentive to do that anymore, which is also good. So I don't think it's a perfect system. I do think there's, you know, as I wrote about this week, I do think there are real pros and cons to it, but I do think it is a improvement from the standpoint that the end, NBA clearly has had a problem of a lot of teams over the final couple months of the season, having it in their best interest to lose every single possible game they could. And that has led to a brutal product as someone who really likes watching basketball games. And this should alleviate some of that burden, even if it isn't to me the best possible outcome,

which would be having a system where everybody is incentivized to actually try to win instead of just not lose sometimes. Okay, here's where I practice my get-up for tomorrow, ready? Yeah. Three things about this. One, you will not see teams tanking for the full season because of the relegation zone. As an aside, not to be used on get-up. As an international soccer fan calling a relegation zone, quiet time. Yes.

Is annoying because it's not really being relegated. It's an insult to the concept of relegation, but neither here nor there. That's number one, you will not see teams play on full season tanks. Number two, because of the odds in the middle from picks, from teams that finish fourth through 10th, 10th, all are the same. So you won't see a team that's in ninth, try to tank its way down to fifth,

because it's all going to be the same. All right, that's number two. So it affects, it should greatly reduce the overall full-on tanking. You're right. We may still see some of it, but it's going to affect that. Third, this is not. confirmed, okay, but it sets up a completely different lottery experience for the fan. Because instead of putting balls... Give me credit for this. The reporter who reported this. I didn't know. I'm ignorant

to that. So I'll give you credit, but I don't know. Is that the plan? Well, I can lay out what I reported. Go ahead. What I reported is there is very likely to be a live lottery next year. It is not 100% in stone, but I would say it's very likely, and that's what I wrote, that the lottery will be a live drawing. There will no longer be a secret room. So my guy, Brian Winhorst, will not go to the secret room. I got to kick out of the secret room. The room is not secret.

It's very clearly labeled. Yes, I know. You loved the room. However, the room will not exist anymore, and it's going to be out on stage. Right. Now let me explain why it's going to be out on stage. Okay. Because instead of there being 14 balls in there,

there will be the ping pong balls will have the logo on them, just like in the good old days with the envelopes. David Stern reaching in, pulling out the envelope. Let me help you a little bit here. So there's 37 total ping pong balls, right? I do think the system is going to be, well, they're all going to have a logo on them. Now, there's two different ways this can go.

Okay. one is you start at one and you go to 16 and the first ball out is the number one team and you go down through. Now what's the problem with that? You're going to get duplicates. Well, no, that's not the problem with the system. The problem with the system is you're going to know right away you've got the number one pick and you're going to, yeah, we're not really interested in that plan. Okay. So I don't think even though that's how they do it in the secret room where they go one, two, three, four.

It's not secret. That's not what they're going to do, I think, in this scenario. What I think they're going to do is go from 16 to 1 to build up the drama, right? Now, I think you have a phrase or, well, bastardized. Why would they do that? How would they do that? Or why would they do that? They would do that to build up drama from the beginning to the end.

So let's, let me paint a picture here. So next May, window, decamps to Chicago. Wait a minute. I don't like that. Well, hold on. How would it work? Joel, let me explain. How would they do? that. That's what I'm explaining. This is going to be great theater. So, fast forward to next

May, we're at the Navy Pier for the draft lottery. Window has flown in. He's on scene for the first live lottery in a very long time. Okay. And you've got the ping pong ball machine up there. I don't know who will be the one adjudicating who's taken out the ping pong balls. Maybe it's Mark Tatum. Maybe it's Adam Silver. Maybe it's somebody else. Maybe it's window. Maybe window will be up there taking it. Byron Spruwell has been doing it. Could be Byron Spruill. well, could be him, could be window. You'd be very emotive and suggestive. You ought to bring it out the ping pong balls.

Yeah, I would know how to do it to make it interesting. You certainly would. You know how to tell a story. Okay, so we have 37 ping pong balls between the teams have three, two, and one. Okay, it's 37 total. As you said, have all the logos on all of them. Okay.

We start with the first ball that comes out. Let's say using this year's lottery, okay? Let's say the Washington Wizards ball comes out first. Okay. The Wizards have two, in this scenario, the Wizards have two ping pong balls in the thing. So if one comes out and they've got one left, throw it to the side. Keep going. When a team's final lottery ball comes out, that's where they are in the standings. So by the time you get to the end, there's only one ping pong ball left in the machine. And that is the one that becomes the number one pick.

I reject this right out of the, I guess it would real drama, but I don't want to see 37 when balls pulled. Sorry. Oh, I, I, I think this is what's going to happen that way. And B, that would 100% be riveting TV. 100%. You're going to tell me you wouldn't be, you would not be hanging on that. So you're telling me that the odds would be the same? Yeah.

The odds would be the same of you getting, if you were the 37th ball pulled, then that would potentially be the number one pick is the same as getting the first ball pulled. When you have potentially three balls in there, I don't, I mean, I'm not a mathematician. You're telling me the odds are the same? I mean, that's certainly, well, I think actually, I think you'd probably have to do it in some other, like, you know, some system to keep the odds the same. But the point is, if you pull out, once your ball had come out enough times, right, you're correct. If you took it out one at a time, you would mess the odds up. But the point is, if you do it that way, you're going to go down to the end

and you're going to build up suspense all the way through to the end. I don't. It'll be riveting TV. I'll wait for somebody who's smarter than me. It's not going to be 37 to 1. You're correct. That part I had a little too much creative license with. That would mess the odds up.

I'll wait for the Harvard lawyers to tell me how it's going to go. It's a very simple thing. Anyway, it's going to be, I think it's good, good chances you say it's going to be live. Yes. What I tell it on Get Up tomorrow, it's going to be so much shorter and tighter than what we just did. Of course. Of course. You're going to be blown away by the...

I will be. You'll take my reporting. But that's okay. By the way. Okay. I don't mean to... I'm messing with you. The idea that they're going to pull out, it's not exactly.

Of course, they're going to do it this way. If they do it reverse order, then I'll give you credit because I think it's a terrible idea. I'll give you credit for that. They are going to do it. in reverse order. I will bet money on. Because you're not going to do it live and start with one and then go to 16. Everyone's going to tune out after three seconds.

I agree with that. But what you just described doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't mean I'm right. It's late. Yeah. I didn't explain it properly. Jackson, do you understand what he's talking about?

Tucker, Miles, Mark. Does anybody we got, we got lots of people on here. There's no chance McMahon would know. I, that I'm certain. Yeah, that's very certain. No, there's the voice of God.

We never get to hear it, but I- never get to hear it. Yes, well, you often get confused. All right, so this passed 29 to 1. Let's explain why the Memphis Grizzlies voted against this. The Memphis Grizzlies voted against this proposal because they traded for the Utah Jazz's

first round pick in 2027, because the jazz finished in the top five of the draft each of the last two years, their pick cannot be in the top five of the draft, top five of the draft next season. So Memphis thought they got an unprotected 2027 pick. They actually got a top five restricted 2027 pick because it can't land in the top five. If the jazz are in the lottery, which by the way, I don't think the jazz will be in the lottery.

I'm going to say that now, prediction. Yes, but let me just say that if you are the, you know, let's say they are in a play-in team and they, you know, let's say the jazz have a great bounce back season and they're a play-in team and they lose in the play-in. Correct. they have a much higher percent of chance of being in the top five next year than they would have this year. Correct. There's a much better chance

of the Grizzlies getting the sixth pick in this format with where Utah is likely to be than there would have been under the old format. Which is essentially what Evan Wash from the league, the league had a press conference to tell whatever, Zoom call today.

Correct. And Evan Wash was asked about this and he basically, he gave a very long answer. I read it later. The short version of the answer, I mean, I talked to the league for the story I wrote about laying out the pros and cons of this on Wednesday. And, you know, the short version is if you start making certain picks separate from the rules, it screws up the value of draft picks.

Yeah, because where do you stop is basically the thing. Where do you stop grandfathering in the pick? Correct. So it's unfortunate luck for the Grizzlies that they can't get a pick that's going to be in the top five next year. However, again, I do think, I either think, my prediction is this pick will not be in the lottery next year. I think Utah is going to be really good. And if Utah is in the lottery next year, my prediction is the Grizzles will line up with a better chance of getting the sixth pick in the draft than they would have under the old system. That I agree with.

That I agree with for sure. I can understand why the Grizzlies are miffed. I get it. I'm not ready to say they're not going to be in the lottery, although they were, artificially depressed at whatever their window it was this year. I think Utah's going to be really, really good. Really, really good. I do.

I think they're going to be really good. He's saying this on March 28th, Jackson. I mean, first of all, it's May 28th. It's not March 28th. What I say, May 28th. You said March 28th. It is May 28th. I do think, well, there you go.

I do think the jazz are going to be very good. But look, either way, I understand why the Grizzlies are annoyed. I would be annoyed to in their spot. The only thing I'll say is the Grizzlies did just, I mean, Not that it matters. I mean, like, they're run by an attorney, but by Ivy League attorneys, too. And this is not going to assuage them. But they did just get beautiful luck in this.

Not that it matters, but they. Yes, after being one of the leaders of the tank brigade this year. So, you know, I don't think they had a lot of sympathy from their brethren. No. And again, like, I think they got a raw deal. I think everybody with the league, everybody with the league would say they got a raw deal. That's right. It's not a fair setup.

And I would say not everybody in. league is enamored with the idea of having these restrictions on these picks to begin with. Like you can't be in the top five or you can't have the number one pick in back-to-back years. Like you're creating a system that's way more random and now you're removing, you're like, if you're going to make it this random, just make it this random. There's no need to add these extra restrictions. But at the end of the day, that was what was voted on. And while I do feel bad for Memphis, I do think ultimately this is going to work out fine. This kind of reminds me because sometimes when the league has to implement changes, you

get into, I mean, Adam Silver calls it unintended consequences. Well, there's been unintended consequences to every single significant change the league has made the whole time we've been around it, including multiple versions of lottery reform, frankly. Every now and then when they make the rule changes, they end up in a corner and they just have to, they have to make a decision. Yeah. Who to hurt. If you're coming up with rules, somebody is going to get penalized somewhere.

This is an unintended consequences story time brought to you by SoFi. your money right. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Dear Canadian exporters, our ambitions, our ideas, and our potential were never meant to be boxed in. Nothing can contain us. With the support of export development Canada's market insights and financial solutions, you can turn obstacles into opportunities, discover new markets, and keep our nation front

and center on the global stage. The world needs more Canada. Together, let's give it to them. Visit edc.ca to learn more. You remember in the 2011 CBA? I do remember it. This is following the lockout. That was my introduction to Lee covering the lockout. Oh yeah, you were eating the mutant pizza on the...

I didn't. I wasn't there for mutant pizza day, but I was there for the night that the lottery ended on Black Friday. That would be my own story time. The strikeout ended, yeah. Yeah, but I was going to all the ballrooms and covering the, covering the lock. Waiting on the street. Waiting on the street. Yep. I remember Ken Burger of CBS sports at the time, who was one of the leading guys who covered the...

You went to every single thing. Yeah, he was one of the leading guys in labor talks. And, you know, the fight was about the split, you know, what the money was going to be. The BRI split. How much money you saw it was going to do. And Ken got a cake and sent it to the room with. the union in the league and the cake said, please split 50-50. Half of the key was like a black and white cake.

Please split 50-50. I forgot about that. At the time, the players had 57. I don't think the players were looking to 50-50. No, no, they were not. They ended up at 51-49. All right, anyway, what ended up coming out of that was Kevin Durant. That's right.

This is a similar type of situation where the league was backed in a quarter. and had to choose who to screw, basically. And this fed into the thunder thinking that things were going against them. So in that CBA, they decided that if you met certain requirements, you could get a few. The Supermax was created. Yeah, it was to create, the rookie Supermax was created. Right. So.

The Rose rule, the Derek Rose rule. Right. It wasn't called that. Derek Rose is the first guy to get. Actually, technically, Kevin Durant was the first guy to get it. So the Thunder, you know, this was in, you know, November of 2011. In the summer of 2010, more than a year earlier, the Thunder signed Kevin Durant to a max contract extension,

five years, no player option. The Thunder were thrilled. They signed them to 25% max very happily. And then in the new CBA, they came up with the Rose provision. It was called the Rose Rule. because Derek Rose was about to sign his extension and it applied to him. That's why it was the Rose rule

because he won MVP the prior season. Yeah, you had to be all NBA. There was different rules back then than there is now. You could get voted to the All-Star game, I think, twice, or you win MVP, which Derek Rose had won. Derek Rose won his third year. And they just decided, well, Kevin,

we didn't want to penalize you for having signed your back. His extension was coming online at the same time, so they gave him the Rose rule. They were just like, they just gave him an extra $3 million. year, basically. And the Thunder passed out because the Thunder were counting every penny

under the luxury tax. It was a contributing factor. It was not the only factor, but it was a contributing factor to them having to trade James Hardin. Part of the reason they just didn't want to pay James Hardin the Max. They didn't think it was a Max player. And I do not want to go down the Hardin' Rabbit Hole again. I would not. I would just gently say choosing to trade James Hart. All right. Whatever. Anyway, the Thunder ended up being okay.

They ended up being just fine. That still are. They gave them, they retroactively, can you imagine Kevin Durant's phone? Hello. Kevin, how's it going? Great. How would you like an extra $3 million a year for the next five years? What do I got to do for it? Nothing.

Sounds good. All right. See you. See you on Christmas Day. Okay, bye. And so it's a similar type situation. They got themselves into this deal. They had this situation.

What are you going to do about, what are you going to do about Durant? Durant signed a Max. Yeah. He's qualified. Yep. And so... What are you going to do about this? If the Thunder had known about that when they signed it,

they could have done moves so that, you know, and the Thunder were happy to pay Durant the money. The problem was that they hadn't planned for. It was changing the rules midstream. That was changing the rules midstream at this moment, right now, today, this afternoon. Yeah, exactly. On a trade they made four months ago.

But it was never announced, but I think the league gave the Thunder its money back. Yeah, wouldn't shock me. It doesn't matter because it counted on the books the same. They would have rather not had to make a hardened trade. I mean, yeah, look, again, Memphis got the short end on. And maybe this is the last we'll hear of it. But if we get to the 34th drawn ball next May and it comes out as the Utah Jazz Pick.

When it goes in reverse order, if we get to six and they haven't been picked yet, like they'll just be six. I know. I don't ruin my musing with your logic. Well, that's usually how it goes. But yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting to see how this goes in practice. I mean, it's going to add a ton of variance to the lottery. It's going to be really interesting to see what the ramifications of this are.

And by the way... It would make sense to go backwards if the lottery wasn't weighted. Like, if everybody had the same chance. Well, there's a very easy way to... There's a very easy way to do this where, like you said, you just, you draw the ball out and you put it back in. And you just keep drawing. And that's all you have to do. And then the odds stay the same.

Well, in the famous Patrick Ewing lottery, where they had the, the, frozen envelope, they went backwards. They drew the third one first. I can't remember who it was. And I feel like it came down to the Pacers. Somehow I feel like it came down to the Pacers or the Knicks.

I remember Herb Simon sitting there and like looking upset. But I don't know. If it was only down, if it was, I don't know. Anyway, that's what they did. They went backwards to forwards. All right. We'll be back. minute with McMahon. We got to finish on brand here. McMahon was meeting with NBA officials.

It's an intense meeting. We pulled them out of it so that he can properly say good night, good morning, good afternoon, whatever you say. Yeah, you guys aren't capable. I know you've tried before. You're not capable of delivering this line. So let me just do it for you. Listen very clearly when I say, Adios amigos.