Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Knicks Historic Comeback Reaction + How Can OKC Recover vs. Spurs? & Kidd Out In Dallas

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the Knicks historic comeback at MSG against the Cavs. The guys break down the epic collapse from Cleveland and how both teams will respond & adjust moving forward. Next, we tackle how the Thunder can step up to the Spurs in Game 2, after San Antonio landed a haymaker in Game 1. Finally, we react to the big news from the Mavs that Jason Kidd is out in Dallas before discussing where the team may go with the coaching search. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Activia. You might already be eating yogurt, but not all yogurts are created equal. Activia contains over one billion probiotics per serving to survive and reach the gut alive. When it comes to gut health, Activia is the number one family doctor-recommended probiotic yogurt brand. Choose Activia. Feel good from the inside out. Visitactivia.ca for more details. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing.

on Tuesday evening slash Wednesday morning. Joining me from across the street at Madison Square Garden, where the New York Knicks came back from 22 points down in the fourth quarter to win in overtime over the Cleveland Cavs, take a 1-0 lead in the Eastern Conference finals this evening. It's Tim Bontemps. Hello, everybody. When the cows are up by 22 in the fourth quarter,

Danny Green, when I was watching the game with, turned to me and Dominique Collins with our producers and said, it's time for me to go home. This game is over. We shook our hands and he left. An analysis. Joining us from Oklahoma City, where he's covering the Western Conference files, which are currently being led by the San Antonio Spurs, in case you hadn't heard, is Ben McMahon. Howdy, partners? There's stuff going on on the home front as well, but it's hanging out in Bricktown.

The home front, you mean the Dallas Mavericks, I assume, and we'll be speaking about that a little later. Okay, so here in New York City, the streets are still alive because the Nick fans are still pouring out of the garden following their overtime winning game one. And I will just say that the cows were playing for three-ish and three-plus quarters, one of their best games of the year that I think was characterized by great floor game from Donovan Mitchell for what looked like the second straight game. Terrific ball movement, drive and kick, drive and kick moving bodies in the basketball. playing with confidence, playing with poise, the way they played in Detroit when they won game seven on Sunday.

And the Knicks looked very much like a rusty team that was playing a little flat and playing us a team that was in better rhythm. And then with 20, up then up by 22, with about nine minutes left to go in regulation, everything changed. And I will just say that I got the following text from my wife with the, this from my son. Now, my son, Dane, uh, had two doubles and pitched three innings in a, in a baseball victory. He's eight years old, but, um, it wasn't the most proud I was of him tonight. I was more proud of what he sent me here, uh, at the beginning of overtime. Yeah, the next, we're down by like 28 and now it's on O.T. I guess what you said is true. There's always time.

So, bond temps would listen to me like my son. He would learn so much about the NBA. I just enjoyed the great day and her just giving you some stick with the calves going down in flames. He was being mildly condescending there. Mildly? That runs his family. Oh, man. So I have to say that Jalen Brunson obviously was absolutely the definition of Captain Clutch.

He had 15 points in the fourth quarter. He was able to really deliver some excellent execution. Some of the shots he made were hard. Some of them were easy, but he got the Nix over the hump. They collectively played pretty good defense down the stretch. I don't want to take anything away from the Nix who had a real high energy quality performance. Obviously, the garden loved every second of it. It completely energized them and puts them in, I think, a really good position in this series

when I expect them to play a cleaner game, you know, starting. going forward. But Bontemps, I have to say the calves had what I could only refer to as collective cognitive freeze for the last 45 minutes they were out on the court. Absolutely completely stopped. And I have to assume that fatigue played a role with them playing their eighth game in 15 days or whatever. I cannot believe how the calves completely stopped. stopped making any sort of coherent decisions on the sideline in the game collectively. It was, I mean, a wretched, wretched result for the Cavs and their hopes of holding some sort of upset in this series. Yeah, I mean, it was actually, it was literally incomprehensible watching the game,

all the awful decisions they were making as a group. And to me, this starts with Kenny Atkinson. I mean, the Cavs had two user-lose-at-time-outs, which means when you get the, the three-minute mark of the fourth quarter. Everybody goes down to two-time-outs. They had four timeouts left in the fourth quarter. As you just said, they're coming off playing a best-of-seven series that went the distance. And by the way, it was their second consecutive best-of-seven series that went the distance. They played every other day, essentially, for a month. And they're coming down the fourth quarter of the game. Jalen Brunson gets hot. The crowd is going. Kenny Hockinson

never calls a single timeout. Not only does he not call the user or lose a timeouts, He doesn't call a timeout all the way until the end of regulation at all, at any point. Meanwhile, Jalen Brunson starts making shots, yes. The Knicks start to get back in the game, yes. He then sends as aggressive a double team as I've ever seen anybody do at Jalen Brunson, every single possession, which Jalen Brunson then just very casually tossed the ball, usually O.G. Annan, Obey at the top of the key, who either had a wide open lane for a dunk or another pass for a wide open three.

And they just kept giving up one wide open shot after another, and they didn't change anything. It was unbelievable to watch them just completely melt down. And Donovan Mitchell had 29 points when he hit a three with 8, 13 to go in the fourth quarter. It was 0 for 5 the rest of the game, had one turnover, was pretty much invisible. James Hardin's defense was reprehensible.

and even by James Harden standards. I mean, it was a collective meltdown, but I really just was flabbergasted by what Kenny Accus was doing. I couldn't believe he didn't call timeout at any point. Like, it was crazy to me. And his explanation was he likes to hold on to his timeouts. You literally lose two of them. His post game, well, okay.

It's just crazy. Estimony your 401K. I mean, you're literally just called time out with four minutes to go on the fourth quarter and just let your team did a break. I couldn't believe it. It was crazy. First off, let me just say that Sam Merrill, you know it was relevant this week, the double bang that Mike Breen made famous with the Steph Curry shot 10 years ago in Oklahoma City. Tonight there actually was a half bang when Sam Merrill took the shot. near the end of regulation.

I thought it was in. I thought it was in. I'm pretty sure said that he like actually got the first half syllable out. He was prepared to to bang it. And then the ball rimmed out. Rimmed out. Honestly, that should have counted for at least two and a half points. It was in.

I don't know how it didn't go in. Rattled around the bottom of the net and out. But for basketball karma, that ball shouldn't have gone in. Well, Kenny Ackinson said, They got unlucky. Kenny Atkinson said they got unlucky and that he was proud of the way his team played. I guess he can be proud of the way they played for three quarters. So basically, you know, taking a step back, Mike Brown, Nick's coach, desperate, down 20, you know, with less than 10 minutes to go, put out basically an all-shooting lineup.

Mitchell Robinson had been playing earlier in the game. The Cavs were purposely fouling him. I think they put him on the line four times. He went two of eight. And, you know, he had a good stretch in the first half, but he was being ineffective. And so he went to, you know, Josh Hart, the calves were totally helping off of. Josh Hart was a minus 23 in this game. Yeah, he took, you know, Jared Allen was guarding him and he was helping off of him.

So Mike Brown made a sort of a, I mean, you know, I don't want to say you're desperate. in game one, but sort of for the moment. I mean, he really just subbed out Josh Hart for Langer Shammett. I mean, it wasn't like he I mean, he had his other starters in the game. Right, but he went to an all-shoeing. Sure, he just went all offense. Yeah. Red the floor out, put the ball in Bruns and

hands, and like, let's just try to out for him down 22. See what you can do. And so I want to say about seven possessions in a row, they just went to a very basic pick and roll where they forced James Harden into a switch and put Hardin on Brunson.

And Brunson got past him every single time. Well, and the calves weren't even trying to stop that. They were doing the most casual rub switches ever, just like letting James Harden get isolated on Jalen Brunson. This is what I'm talking about when I basically said, you know, cognitive functions ceased because there was, the timeouts, it's a good point. But I would have accepted any sort of adjustment.

Brunson made, I want to say, five or six baskets. He finally called timeout. And in the timeout, they made an adjustment, and they decided to double team, as you mentioned. And Kenny was asked after the game, right? Bon Tempty was like, you know, how come you didn't adjust? He's like, well, we did adjust. But it was, they only adjusted after the lead had gone from 20 down to like six. And then offensively, and this is what happens, when you have a collapse, it's never one thing.

It's always multiple things. And so the calves missed some free throws. They had some possessions that were lost due to free throws. And they also stopped driving the ball. Everything that they did for the first three quarters, they started Mitchell and Hardin and started foul hunting. And the referees didn't give it to them because they didn't deserve it at that point. And so it was their offense, you know, arresting, basically,

in addition to the fact that they were just being plucked apart on defense. And there was just no, there was no attempts, there was no active attempts to stem the tide. And so this is, you know, this is absolutely going to go down as a game that the Cavs lost, I think. Maybe the Knicks fans wouldn't agree with that. Oh, of course. Like, listen, Brunson going for 38 and Brunson catching fire in the fourth quarter, and Landers Shamut coming in and giving them a spark, like, okay, that's awesome. And Knicks fans will remember that.

They can celebrate that. This is a collapse by the Cavalry. of epic proportions and the kind of like how do you bounce back from this how does how do you get that taste out of your mouth you were up 22 with eight minutes left how do you lose that game it would have been better off if they got beat by 20 and the game was over in the fourth quarter and they just said well we didn't have any energy from sure yeah it would have been a much better situation because then you're like well we can we can play better in game too you mean it's crazy all the way around I mean, you are right.

They called the one time out with 3.30 to go. But, I mean, it was just crazy to watch. I'm just implode. And this was another hardened dud. And the harden, he'll have two or three good games a series, and then there will be duds. This was another more turnover than bucket performance. I think that's up to like 32 of them in his playoff career.

The Jazz, by the way, are 0 and 6 this postseason when he has more turnovers than buckets. I think you said the Jazz. The Cass. They are 0 and 6. That 6? That's a lot in one playoff run. And then they just hunted them. Brunson was 7 of 11 when Hardin was the primary defender on them.

And it was just like, bring them into the switch, boom, attack them. And the Knicks spent almost none of the game doing that either. It was like, I mean, Mike Brown is sort of out to lunch for a lot of the game. Like they didn't really go at Hardin for most of it. The Knicks game plan wasn't a super effective. effective. The Knicks were double-teaming Hardin and Mitchell, and the calves were really smartly passing and then just really moving the ball. And, you know, once you double-team and you make the pass, it's four-on-three. And the calves were attacking that four-on-three, like going downhill and attacking it. They played a very smart, effective game for three-quarters and then just played a very, very brain-dead game from then on.

And honestly, like, in the fourth quarter, when the game went to overtime, like, the Cavs had a lot of the Cavs had. had no chance in that spot. The other thing I'll say is... That Sam Merrill shot didn't go in. And I thought it was in. It looked great. And obviously it rimmed out. I was like, there's no...

There's no way the Cavs are winning this overtime. Not with this place going insane and with the streak they were on. I mean, 44... I don't know if we ever said. It was 44 11 to end the game. 44 to 11 in 13 minutes. It took a couple of really clutch shots for them to get the 11. It was 39 to 8.

I mean, it was just crazy. Landry Shama and Jalen Brunson are not good defenders, okay? And Jalen Brunson had five fouls for at least eight or nine minutes of game time. And the Cavs, as far as I remember, maybe I can be shown video that proves this wrong. I don't think the Cavs ever went after him. They also were getting the ball over at like 16 or 17, every possession. They were getting into stuff late. I mean, they had a shock clock violation, I think, to start overtime in their first possession.

I mean, they were just a mess. I mean, just a complete and total mess. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. So let's talk about where the calves go from here, Bon Temps. The Knicks, I think very possibly could have played their worst game already and are up 1-0. You know my rule about never overreacting to game one. I wouldn't have overreacted had the Cavs close this out and even won by 22 because I didn't think the Knicks played very smoothly or savally.

I thought O.G. Anobie coming back from the hamstring definitely looked rusty and not 100%. And this was, you know, he was playing the best basketball his career when he had that injury against the Sixers. I thought, you know, the Knicks couldn't make a three for, you know, two. plus quarters. So you have to assume, you know, like, I don't know what grade you would assign the Knicks in this game, but it was through three quarters, it was a D minus

or D plus, whatever. I mean, it was probably an F. I mean, they couldn't hit a shot. They were, I mean, they were down 20. I mean, it wasn't very competitive. And look, I think for as much as we've banged on the cast for the way they ended this game, and they deserve it,

obviously, with the way the game ended. I do think, if you're, look, if you can pull back to 10,000 feet and get away from the fact that they just gave away this game on the road, which you don't want to do in a playoff series. Coming into this series, talking to people with the Caz for the game, I think they were excited to get away from the Rockham Sockham Robot series that they got out of at each of the first two rounds, where they're playing Toronto, which was going to mix it up and be super physical. And then obviously Detroit was going to mix it up and be super physical, right?

And the Knicks, like, yes, they have Mitchell Robinson. They've got Josh Hart and O'GNobie. They've got some physical players, but the Knicks don't play like that. Like, they're going to get out and run and they want to, they're an offensive team. They're going to play that way. They're going to play at a faster pace. Like it all sort of leans into the stuff the Cavs want to do. And I thought the Cavs, like you said, for 40 minutes, the Cavs played great.

Like the Knicks came out and got a little bit of a hot start early. Mitchell Robinson made some plays early. they got a early lead, but then the Knicks couldn't hit a shot, and the Cavs just methodically walked them down, and third quarter was great. Like, it looked like they're going on their way to an awesome win that was going to really set things up going forward. So I think if you're the Cavs,

I do agree to some extent with Kenny Axton being happy with the way his team played for how they looked in the first 40 minutes of the game. Now, I probably wouldn't have said I was super proud of how they played when he gave up 44 to 11 to end it. But I do think if you're the Cavs, you can come back on Thursday and feel confident that you can get a win here in New York and that you have the ability to win games in this series and win this series. Like they look like a team that came in the season as co-favorants with the Knicks.

But it's just very hard to give away a game like this in a series and still win it. We talked about with Detroit giving away, you know, game five last round at home. And if the Cavs do lose the series, they're going to think back on it like I'm sure they still think about game two against the Pacers last year. I typically do not believe in momentum from game to game in a playoff series. This might be an exception. That was just such a horrific collapse. Like, how do you wash that stench off you and play again in 48 hours? And, you know, and be mentally ready to play again in 48 hours.

You know, and especially like this is a team. They finally, like Donovan finally got over the hump of never been in, you know, having made it to a conference finals. But, like, you know, Donovan's got playoff demons. Hardin has, like, I mean, he needs ghostbusters with all the playoff demons that he has. Like, and it, I don't know, ma'am, I just, that one's going to linger, I think. Yeah, you know, in talking to the Cavs folks before the game, there was a real collective, you know, they felt a great relief. there was, you know, getting to the conference finals, getting through that series.

There was sort of, you could tell, I felt they were not, they did not feel pressure. It felt good about what they had accomplished. And they played like that. They played completely free. I mean, right from the start, they looked completely at ease. And you could see, you know, that they had this confidence about them that they had built up from getting those two roadwinds in Detroit. And I was like, wow, I mean, like, this is really something that, you know, could carry over. I mean, that's what was going on.

And so you go from that to utter abject being gutted. And so, you know. Like an all-time meltdown. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of stats out there about, like, you know, some three and 800. Like, seriously, like three at 800. Well, one in five, ninety-four. when a team had a 22 point lead with 8 minutes enough that thinks the stat that are folks at it.

Yeah, the only stat that matters is 44 to 11. Like that, that is a hard one to stomach if you're a Cavs fan, if you're a member of the Cavs. And like you said, Brian, the Cavs came into this game with absolutely no pressure because, I mean, you're in New York. McMahon, you follow what's going on.

Everybody here for the last week and a half has been throwing a party about going to the finals and, like, talking about the ways the Dicks can beat the Thunder or the Spurs in the finals. Like, it's just, this is like, ah, they're going to beat the Cavs. It's going to be great.

This is no problem. Everything is awesome. And the Cavs came in. They escape from this Detroit series. They're the underdogs in this series. They, like you said, Big Man,

James Harden has had all these, you know, losses in the second round in recent years. He gets through. Donovan Mitchell, Evan Moble, these guys break through.

Kenny Ackinson gets to the conference. Like, for all these guys like, man, this is a big accomplishment to get to the conference finals. They're the underdogs in the series. They can play free and easy.

And that's how it looked. Like for, even then, though, they were down double figures in the second quarter, and then they just dominated the next 20 minutes. Two quarters of basketball had the game completely in control and somehow, some way, just let Jalen Brunson say, hey, James Harden, come here. Your guy's screening. I'm going to torch you. And then they couldn't, like from there, it just completely unraveled on them. Completely. Mike Brown just said in the post game press conference.

It's no secret. we were attacking Hardin. And guess what? Our game plan is going to be in game two. And three and four. And we'll see if there's any more. They just was looking. They targeted Hardin nine times in the fourth quarter with, you know,

forcing him into the one-on-one isolation with Brunson. And they scored 17 possessions, or 17 points in those nine possessions. Yeah, I can't do that math, but it's almost two. Yeah. What was the stat? stat Williams sent me a stat about Hardin Brunson. What is it here? In the fourth quarter of overtime, James Hart is his primary defender,

Janlon Brunson, was seven for eight. It's pretty good. Gotta get you beat. What happened on the miss? How you blow a lead? I don't know. By the way, the one play James Hardin made was he hit that shot with about 30 seconds ago to put him up two, and Brunson just came back down with the ball,

went right around him and scored off the glass. I mean, he might as well not have been there. Well, and then Kenny said after the game that Hardin was one of their better defenders, which... I mean, that's just not... I mean, like, he wasn't on... There was no paragraph. You know, I understand. I understand

not wanting to go out there and roast somebody, but like, come on, man. He's already roasted, buddy. You can't do that. Brunson took care of the roasting. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, come on. Just say we got to be better in game two. Like, come on. Like, we got to figure out ways to help them. Say something. You don't have to kill them.

Say something. Something else. Something that's not bad. Don't tell. is something that completely not true. Exactly. Come on. That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, man. There's a bunch of numbers. I keep seeing different versions. But it's hundreds and hundreds of situations like this where there

hadn't been a loss. And I'm talking like... It's just crazy. I mean, it was one of the wilder swings because this place was dead. I mean, the garden, I mean, the garden was even in the second quarter, like there was no energy. Again, I think everybody was just expecting a party, and the calves showed up and played well and got up. And, like, the Knicks were two for 19 from three in the first half. At one point, they were four for 23 from three.

They couldn't hit a shot for the perimeter. Everybody in the guard was like, oh, yeah, well, the Knicks are going to lose. This stinks. And just completely flipped around. You also had to be filthy rich even to get a nosebleed seat. Well, that is true. But the crowd here, once the crowd had something to cheer for, I mean, the second the Knicks made any shot, like when it got to like 19,

the crowd was going crazy, but they just didn't have anything to cheer for it for the longest time. And then all of a sudden it was like an avalanche. And it just kept, the snowball just kept going down the hill. And the calves were like, oh, there goes to snowball.

Watch a roll down the hill. Oh, it's a beautiful snowball. It's just watching. Look at pickup speed. It's really going now. It's coming really fast. Do you think we should get out of the way?

Nah. All right. Well, Martin probably thought to go around them like, Brunson did the whole quarter. Oh, man. Oh, all right. I am pleased to move on from that showing by the Cavs to discussing what you witnessed firsthand on Monday night, McMahon.

And that was the incredible performance of Victor Wembeyanama, including the shot heard around the world with his 32-footer there in the first overtime. And, you know, I didn't under, I didn't completely understand when we were doing the pod last night because we're doing it right after the game. One of the reasons I think Wimbunyama took that shot was because there was about 29 seconds left on the clock when he took it, which ensured that it would create a two for one, which I think is one of the reasons why he took it. So even if he missed it, the Spurs would have a chance to defend and have another chance. And that to me sort of personifies Victor Wembenyama that he would, number one, have the gut. to take that shot. Number two, have the arrogance to believe you would make it. Number three, have the ability to make the shot. And number four, do it in a way that was strategic. I think sort of sums up the way that whole game played out. And I'm sure that the mood

in Oklahoma City, after not losing a playoff game for weeks, is a little bit tense right now. Yeah, and the Thunder are familiar with this territory. It's not a comfortable situation, but they are confident. They lost the opener to the Nuggets last year, came back in one game two, one of seven games series. Same thing in the finals against the Pacers. Both of those were heartbreaking losses.

Aaron Gordon hit the game winning three for the Nuggets. Tyreys Halliburton hitting, you know, his millionth game winner of last season in the finals game one. So, you know, they've been here. You know, as Mark Dagenal said, one thing he loves about this team is their ability to problem solved. That was a great quote. Let's just put it this way.

I was a little bit more impressed with that tack than Kenny Atkinson's after this game. Sure. And, you know, he loves his team's ability to problem solve, especially throughout the course of a playoff series. Having said that, it's a different kind of calculus. Geometry, whatever damn math you want to bring up, when he put Victor Wimbunyama in the equation. And he created...

Probably geometry is probably the best thing to say there. He creates problems that we've never seen in the NBA before. And look, as phenomenal as he was on the offense fan and we can get into that, this game for the Thunder was lost when they had the ball. They didn't score enough points. They're not going to win games with Shago and 7 of 23. But why did Shago 7 of 23? What was the primary factor in that?

It was Victor Wimbunyama. And they've got great point of attack defense. Dylan Harper is a dog. Stefan Castle's a dog. Like they're throwing an extra body at him, Sean Sweeney. By the way, the last tactician to send the Thunder home in a playoff series was Sean Sweeney with the Mavericks. Sean Sweeney did a hell of the job orchestrating that defense from the bench. You know, give Ms. Johnson and his coaching staff, they're due credit.

But when you've got this seven and a half foot guy with awesome mobility and unbelievable instincts, where he can zone up basically and he can cover elbow down on both sides of the floor from three point line to three point line. He's like he's not a rim protector. He's a large chunk of the floor protector. Look at the block shot that he had on Shea's baseline step back mid-range jumper. Over another defender. Yes. It's insane.

What? A fadeaway jumper over a guy guard to give a Victor just goes, I'm just going to block it. I'm just going to go over you, over you both and block it. There's another one where Shea has the ball. He's like right down on the block on the other side of the floor. And Wimby didn't block it, but Shea short-armed because Wimby was there. And that's a miss. And so you have shots blocked. He had three of those. You have shots altered.

He had a lot of those. And then you have shots that aren't even thought about because we ain't going in there. How many times do guys just dribble all the way through on the baseline? Yep. Or probe and, you know, hit the brakes, a U-turn. Wimby is the most dominant defensive player we've ever seen, and he had 41 points and 24 rebounds in his first conference finals game. And, oh, by the way, played 49 minutes,

and the 49th minute was maybe his best. So kind of answer that question, you know. Yeah, I mean, like you said, The thing that was amazing watching it was all the times where the thunder are probably the best team in the league at getting to the rim, our best team in the league at getting to the rim. And whether it was Shea, whether there's A.J. Mitchell, who's great at it, all these guys who get in the paint and just be like, nope, I'm going to turn right. Nope, I'm going to turn left.

I'm going to do anything but shoot the ball where they would always just get to the room and make a layup or get to the rim and hit a three-foot floater. Because you've got this guy who's just standing like somewhere in the vicinity that he could be 12 feet away from you. and he can block his shot, and he can totally change things. And I do think, to me at least, you were there, McMahon, so I'm curious what you thought. It felt like the Thunder started to figure stuff out as the game went along. And I think it felt like when they had their best stretches, Shea, in particular, in the fourth quarter, and Jaylon Williams, I thought was pretty good about it too.

It was like, everything was really direct and fast. And, like, I'm making a hard decision and I'm getting to a spot and I'm rising up and shooting. Because if you give Victor even like a second to react to what you're doing, it's awful. You got no chance then because he's just going to come from wherever he's at and stop you. I got a good-spirited discussion slash argument today with Amman Shepard and Danny Green doing some TV with them. Two guys who are NBA champions and, you know, were known for their wing defense. Yeah, elite defensive players, both of them, yeah.

And I was arguing, and I know that you'll tell me if you think that I'm wrong, I was arguing that I don't think that the Thunder game plan against Wembenyama was flawed. Because if you look at the regulation, now in the second overtime, he was absolutely, you know, awesome and ended the game. Put him in the dirt. At which end are you talking about the game plan? The Thunder's defensive game plan against Wambayama which is to employ mostly wings

and then have their big man whether it was Holmgren or Hardenstein or Jalen Williams be the secondary defender but mostly it was Alex Caruso and Lou Dort and see if anybody else and some J-Ly Williams

J-Dubb the wing In the 27 plays that Alex Caruso was the final defender on Victor Weniama in game one, the spurs were six for 17, they were one for nine on threes, they had six turnovers. They had 0.72 points per play. I'd say that strategy was pretty good. I thought where they, to McMahon's point, I thought where they failed was at the other end of the game or the other end of the court. Well, I'm just saying, what, Danny and Shump were arguing that Chet, has to be, has to step up and take the assignment.

Well, Chet has to just be a thousand times better than he was in game one because he was terrible in game one. He has to just be much better. I can understand their argument. Chet is the primary guy. I think Wimby was three of nine against him. And, you know, you do the math. I don't have it right in front of me, but he was 33%.

There you go. Not that math, you stupid. It was, what, 11 for? I'll look up his numbers right. efficient against everybody else. In regulation, he was 9 of 19. Yeah. Well, but some of those were

Molone bucket where he'd been three rebounds on a possession and finish it. Well, I understand you're going to have to, if you're going to guard him with a wing, you're going to have to accept he's going to get some offensive rebounds. You don't want him to get nine. Caruso is great at making it tough

to get the ball, to catch the ball, to catch it where you want it. If Wimby catches it where he wants it against Caruso, there's no hope or Jalen Williams or Lou Dord. The whole thing they've got to do is push him off his spot, you know, front him, deny him, there's help coming, all that kind of stuff. I didn't think it was a terrible defense performance against Wemby despite the fact that he had 41 points,

despite the fact that starting with that 30-footer, he outscored the Thunder 12 to 7 to close the game. I didn't think it was a terrible defense performance against him. Again, I think this game, and the Thunder think this game was lost because they weren't able to generate offense, and that gets back to they weren't able to get Wimby moving around. You have to make him move directions multiple times. Maybe you can catch him. If you're going to be driving, you've got to be able to catch him in a quartet screen. You can't have him just able to roam and challenge at the rim.

You know, you've got to be able to catch him a split second late on a rotation like Shea did on that dunk in overtime. which, by the way, he had that dunk in overtime, and that was his only points in the last two overtimes. That's why you say, Bond Tempt, you think they figured something out in the fourth quarter, it didn't carry over. You know, I'm sure there was some good film for him to watch, but it didn't carry over to the other times.

I mean, I thought it carried over in the first overtime. I mean, they had a chance to win the game and then didn't close it. But, I mean, I'm with you, though. I thought they came in the game, and they were, in my opinion, just way too passive going at Victor inside. And it was a lot of like, we're going to zoom through the paint and not look at the rim. And so Victor could just stand there. And look, I understand like he's different than anybody we've ever seen.

But like Victor was just standing there like this and like, well, we're not going to try that. And they just would go through. And then they would like zoom in and then try to kick passes out. And because the Spurs defenders know Victor's there, like Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper and these guys, Devin Vissell can all just stay with their guns. guy and they don't have to collapse on anybody. And then it's just, oh, we're going to throw the ball right to somebody on the perimeter where a guy would typically be open for a three.

That's what I mean. Like, it felt like as the game went on, they started to figure some of that stuff out. But, I mean, again, like you said, I mean, he's the most dominant defensive force we've ever seen. He's like he's breaking the game. Like, he's just breaking things that ever, like the whole history of the sport, basically. There's all these things that if you typically do, it's going to lead to success. And because he's just standing there on the court,

there's stuff that just isn't going to work against him. And it's going to be fascinating to see how they adjust and how they evolve. Because they will come up with new stuff. They'll try new, they'll have different things they can do. They're a phenomenal team with great coaching and a ton of versatile talent. But this is as big a challenge as anybody has ever seen trying to score against this guy. Quite literally. Yeah, quite literally.

And, you know, that was, I agree. I'm with you, Brian. I thought their defensive game playing against Victor largely was good. I guess that's good news and bad news because... Because he had 41. Yeah, because, like I said, it was juiced by the last overtime. I'm not arguing that in the last overtime. And the last overtime, Victor outlasted everybody.

And he had nine points in that overtime. And he threw in the three. The most minutes of his, maybe of his career, certainly of this beat. That is the other thing that I do really think is something to watch. is playing every other day, and like, we'll see if the Aaron Fox is back. But those five starters all played at least 44 minutes. Hey, youngest starting lineup at a conference finals that we can track. They got fresh laid.

And they, well, they do, but it's going to play in every other day for two weeks is going to be a challenge. And Luke Cornett really struggled in his minutes. I'm not sure how effective he's going to be in the series. Kelton Johnson, I thought. And by the way, pulling at Hartinstein as early as they did was about getting him matched up with cornet minutes. Clearly, they don't think Hartenstein's a great fit to match up against Wembe, or they wouldn't have done

that. But that was not like a reaction to the first two and a half minutes. That was, you know, game playing going in just to address that. So they were going to take him out two and a half minutes into the game? That's what Dagonal said. How are they going to start game two? Honestly, we'll probably find out

30 minutes before tip off. That's a good quick. Do we think they're going to start two bigs in game two? We'll see. That's a good question. Well, I'm asking you, do you think they're going to start two bigs in game two? I don't. I'm not sure. Honestly, I wasn't sure they were going to start two bigs for game one. I thought they might leave AJ Mitchell in the starting lineup with... You did say that to me before the game. Dub at the four and to kind of have just like this like super playmaking starting lineup.

And that gets back to the Wimby dynamic when the spurs are on defense of like you, to me, you have to have multiple playmakers on the floor against him because it's not going to be like this thing of Shea initiates at the top of the floor and just goes and creates it. Nah, dude, it's kind of have to be driving kick, drive and kick multiple actions, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, and Shea, like the intimidation factory, he didn't use the word intimidation,

but he said you have to be smart and patient with Wemby, but you also have to be aggressive. And his exact phrase was, don't be timid. And they played timid for a lot of the game. When you get caught worrying about it, like worrying about just him rejecting everything, he said that's when the spurs can put a stranglehold on the game.

And so they've got to find that balance. You got to make him actually block the shot. You know, you can't give him a block. I mean, obviously, I'm not saying you drive right at him when you're giving up a foot. but you know you got to make him block the shot you can't make him mentally block the shot which you got to make a move you got to make if he's just able to kind of play you know in and out avoiding three seconds in the paint you're not scoring in the paint you're not no it's going to look like when jalen williams drive to wimby pinned the thing and grabbed the rebound and went over and posed in front of the bench and had his little you know kodak moment yes but it you got to get him moving and look alice carruz a put it in the Louvre moment. Yeah.

That wasn't snow polar. That was an iconic. Exactly. That was an iconic shot. It was an iconic shot. I'm curious to see how much, if any more attention they pay to Alex Caruso. Because the game playing all season long was live with Alex Caruso getting wide open threes.

I think they'll continue to live with it. Well, during the regular season, he was 521 against the spurs, including 2 of 12 on Christmas when I think he missed the first 10. Yep. He went 8 to 14. I haven't updated since then. But going into that game in a Thunder uniform, he was a 40.3% three-point shooter in the playoffs. And he's not an awful shooter.

I mean, he's not great, but he's not awful. And those were practice shots. Like, if he, his flaw is a shooter, he's got a slow release. But if you have 20 feet, you'll get it off. Right. I mean, if they just give him those, kind of shots and he's taking 14. I mean, you should probably expect him to make four or five. I mean, you know, making eight is a lot. But like, those were like practice in practice shots,

not like game shots. Shea's seven to 23. And whatever fallout as a result that led to Shea being seven to 23, that's a tradeoff that San Antonio will probably accept. If Shea and Chet aren't better in game two and beyond in the series, then San Antonio's going to the four. finals. Like those two guys have to be a lot better. They'll be the first to say that. It's real simple. Shea got the MVP trophy, presented him pregame, and Wimby sat right there on the bench and seethed. And Shea did not play up to that MVP standard. And Wimby sent a message, and he's got to, you know, this message has to be repeated. You can't send it one time. You got to send at least four in a series. Wimby sent a message that said, I told you this.

And I meant it. I'm going to prove it to you. I'm the best, to paraphrase, or to quotes, Stefan Castle, effing player in the world. And Shea's got the crown on his head. He's got two MVP's with a finals MVP sandwich in between.

He has been the best player in the league for two years running. But Wimby is reaching down and trying to rip that crown off of Shea's head and he's one-fourth of the way there. We talked about Elijah on Robbins, Robinson on Sunday ahead of game one. That was Elijah on Robinson 2.0.

And look, whether the Thunder win the series or not, Victor Weniam is the best player on the planet now. He showed that yesterday. Listen, the Thunder might win the series. She deserved to win MVP. But Victor is the best player. You saw that in game one. He's the most dominant course in the league right now.

I ain't no doubt about that. I think he's just the best player. And if, you know, if She can win this series, they go on to win the title, doesn't mean that there's a, you know, Shea's incredible. But that performance was the beginning, officially to me,

of the Victor era. And it started in game one. Now, it was at least a seven or eight LOL game where I just started cracking up when he did something. I mean, he hits a 30-footer with a game in line.

I crack up. I had some LOLs tonight watching Cavs play. I don't know if it's the same. Yeah, no, these are pleasant LOL. All right. Well. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

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McMahon, I heard you were distracted from your pickup game on Tuesday night. I gotta be honest. Wasn't playing well. Didn't mind getting, you know, getting... To put it in Cavs, Parlin, Spont, Tems, he was getting a little unlucky. It was a very unlucky pickup performance. We're going to go five.

Hey, Jacob play? Yeah, he has a little, something. We're getting a rematch in San Antonio. I'm working on a gym right now. Anyways, I'm still, my record during these playoffs is five and three. Jay Kids' record with the Maddox is 205 and 205, and it's going to stick right there. Because, oh, he didn't get fired.

It was the mutually agreed to part way. You know, that's the invoked way to announce these things. But look, let's just call like it is. The calves didn't blow that lead tonight. They mutually agreed to part ways with it. They mutually agreed to lose the game. Both sides, both the Knicks and the Cavs agreed the cast would lose. So the Caves said, sure, that'd be great.

So as soon as Maasai Jury got hired by the Mavericks, you knew this was a distinct possibility. Because coming out of the draft combine in Chicago last week, it was a growing discussion. There was widespread anticipation. Good job. Ultimately, I was unable to get enough confirmation to beat their press release. But this was not a shock. And really, all you had to do was watch Messiah Jury's press conference.

He was asked straight up if J.K.K.D. was going to be the coach. And he said, we're going to evaluate everything from head to toe. also Jason Kidd was not aware of Masayuji U is being hired. That was a bad sign. After Jay Kidd, by the way, tried to move up to the front office and become the president of basketball operations. Now, Bad sign won. Yeah, Jay Kidd knew months in advance that wasn't going to happen. It's not like he was surprised.

He didn't get the job. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, McMahon. Bad sign part one, ready? Jason Kidd was not aware that Masayu Jiri was being hired to be the team president. Pretty bad sign. Bad sign number two. Maybe not at all of them, but I heard that when the Mavericks had meetings with potential draft picks last week in Chicago, that Jason Kidd wasn't always in the room. I would say that's not a great sign.

Considering they have a lottery pick and it's, you know, pretty important. To me, this all goes back to not the head to toe comment from Maasai at his press conference, but when Maasai talked about the Luca Dotsage drink, What did he say about the Luccadotac's trade? That is now in the past. We are done talking about the Luccadotac trade, and we are looking forward as an organization, and we're moving past it. And I would say,

what they're trying to do is clean house of anybody who had any level of involvement in that. That's what I was getting to. Like, this is, Miss Iujiri is in charge. He is there. He is a huge personality. He is a fresh face. And he is completely starting over

with the MAVs. Clean slate is the messaging from the Mavericks. 100%. And that's what this is. We've got Cooper Flag. We're going to have another, you've got the ninth pick in this draft. They're going to get another really interesting young player in the draft. We'll see what they do with Kyrie Irving, whether they trade him or not. See if they get Derek lively, healthy.

You know, they're moving forward, build around Cooper Flag, and it's forward looking and forward facing, and we're not thinking about the Luca trade anymore. I mean, they are. But I'm saying that's what this is about. They're trying to move past the Luca Tra. That's right. We're getting past all this stuff. And like, if Jason Kidd was still coaching the team,

you'd still be thinking about the Luca trade. Like that, it's just, it'd be part of the whole thing. And it's now it's all about what's going on with Cooper, where are the Mavs going from here. And, you know, it will be interesting to see what Messiah Jerry does in terms of hiring a coach. To me, I know he was there the past few years before this year. but I'd be going down I-35 and I'd be getting Sean Sweeney.

And I'd be having him come back up I-35 to Dallas and that'd be the end of my search. Sean Sweeney is lead, the associate head coach of the Spurs. And I did check, listen, Maasai is definitely trying to be very buttoned up and tight-lipped. I did inquire with a source who familiar with his thinking. and I said, hey, would Sean Sweeney's connection with J. Kid eliminate him as a candidate? Because Sean Sweeney was J.Kid's right-hand man in Brooklyn, in Milwaukee, and then in Dallas. And I was told, no, that wouldn't eliminate him as a candidate. Like, they would consider him as an individual and not a, you know, not as J-Kid's right-hand man.

If it comes to that, I don't have at this point a list of candidates. I would say a couple things. There is, like there's rumors flying around, and I'm not going to say, there's like a big name college coach is being rumored. Maasai's track record is not necessarily swinging for big names. It's trying to find the next great coach. You know, he likes discoveries.

Well, that's what, you know, when he hired Nick Nurse. He's hired two coaches. He's hired Nick Nurse, and he's hired Darko Ryakovich. Those are the two coaches he's hired. Right. And with Darko, the other guys, like some other kids, candidates there were Charles Lee, who is now a first-time head coach in Charlotte, is doing a really good job.

Ms. Johnson, who's now a first-time head coach in San Antonio, was doing a really good job, trying to think who else were the final. But, you know, there was, it wasn't a bunch of, like, big-name coaches, is my point. Now, I don't know which direction Messiah is going to go. Patrick Dumont, his MO is the exact opposite. Let me get the biggest, most proven name with the best resume possible. Rick Welts as a CEO. Masai Ujuri.

But this is going to be Messiah search. Mike Schmitz, our former colleague, who's now the Mavericks GM, will be part of that process. And then, you know, DuMont will be kind of kept the breast of things, but really not directly involved until they get it down to the last,

batch of finalists. Well, like I said, to me, this should be a very easy search. Like, John Swinney's the top assistant in the league. He's familiar with the franchise. you look at what he's doing with the spurs. Like he's exactly what they need. So, you know, I will see what they do.

I mean, Maasai knows what he's doing. But to me... But Swinney would also fit. Yes. You know, he would bit that track record for Maasai. Let me go find a really sharp assistant coach who's the next great coach, not necessarily a guy who's got, you know,

some long track record as a head coach. So we'll see. I do think the Sweeney's, those types of guys will be part of the search, but where exactly it lands, that I couldn't tell you. And by the way, this was like J.Kitt obviously was the headliner. There were a lot of people who mutually agreed to part ways with the Madvicks today. You know, Matt Ricardy, who's an interim GM, is out. Michael Finley's a TBD, just as a by the way,

but a bunch of scouts, assistant coaches, you know, analytics guys. Like, Masayu Jiri inherited a situation where there's Donnie Nelson leftovers, there's Nico Harrison leftovers, and he's going to run his own basketball operations department, and he's in the process of, he's in the tear-down process before he puts it together. Well, the Mavericks mutually agreed to continue with Cooper Flagg. Oh, that's good. That's a good idea. I would do that, too.

That's a key factor in the Mavericks situation. I think that's a key factor. Typically, when you fire a coach who's had success, and these last two seasons, I don't know how much you assign it to Kidd because after Luca and then you had the injuries to AD and Kyrie, they tanked. And then this year, they tanked. So, you know, I don't know how much of those 205 wins and losses were fair. but typically when you fire a coach who's had success and kid took him to the finals, you have a pretty good idea of who you're going to hire because you don't want egg on your face. In this scenario, because there's a new GM, the standard is different. So I would expect that there would be a search. It's also a very desirable job because of the presence of Cooper Flags.

Absolutely. So it's not like they're going to have trouble hiring somebody. And by the way, I give credit to Patrick Dumont because. that as the ban is reported. Jason Kidd had a contract, I believe, through 2030 and was owed north of $40 million. And that's a lot of money to eat, especially when you extended him a year ago

to keep him from going to the Knicks and after turning him down from being able to go to the Knicks. And he got two extensions from Patrick Dumont, one during the finals run and then again last year. So for Messiah Jerry to go to Patrick Dumont and say, hey, listen, I want to make a coaching change There are not many owners that would say, I'm going to eat $40 plus million. They would say, hey, give this a year and see how it goes first because I don't want to pay that much money.

So full credit to them for hiring Messiah Jiri and saying, hey, you're going to run the team and we're going to let you do it how you'd want to do it. And if that means we've got to spend a lot of money, then so be it. And what I would say is Maasai didn't necessarily go to DeMont and say, hey, I want to make a change. Patrick DeMont hired Messiah Jury and said, listen, don't worry about the money with Jay Kidd if you want to move on. from him, you're fully authorized to make that decision. Right. Well, the Adelson family of owns the Mavericks. Has it. They do have it. It's a rounding error for now. All right. So for the first time, guys, in history, both conference finals, game ones, went to overtime.

So hopefully this is the beginning of two excellent playoff series that provide high-level basketball, although I know about that quarter for the calves, but high-level basketball and high level of entertainment, but you couldn't have asked for anything more over the last two nights. Pretty good. Pretty good stuff. I was waiting for McMahon to say something, but he didn't. You never waited for me to say something in your life. No, relax. All right. Thank you so much to our producers. Mark Miles and Jackson. Thank you to McMahon and Bontemps. Thank you for listening and watching The Hoop Collective. We'll be talking to you later this week after Cavs, Knicks. Game 2. Adios amigos.