Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Knicks & Wolves Back In The Series?

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the Knicks' dramatic Game 3 win over the Pacers including if this win gives New York a real chance in the series. Then, the guys talk Minnesota’s dominant win over the Thunder and discuss if that is a sign for more to come or if OKC will take control in Game 4. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing a little after midnight, East Coast time on Monday morning. Joining us from Indianapolis, the Gainesbridge Fieldhouse, is Tim Bontemps. Hello, everybody.

What a conference finals game you had there. Now we've got an Eastern Conference Finals, Mr. Bontems. We do. It's true. Over here on the Western Conference, all the way up in Minneapolis, joining me on a different floor. I don't know what floor he's on. I don't want to know. He's Ban McMahon. Howdy. partners. Maybe at some point we'll get a competitive game in this series. That would be nice. 42 points in game three. Now, what I was expecting. All right, but we're going to start in the east

with the Knicks. I feel like the, if I had to put it in meme form, I would do as the Undertaker meme with him getting up off the mat. The Knicks down 20 in the first half, down 10, going to the fourth quarter, although going down into the fourth quarter, Bontemps, they look like they were getting a little bit of traction. But to me, and we haven't talked at all about this game, so I don't know what you're going to say, and you were there. To me, this game was about Tom Tibido searching like crazy for something that would work, and him being compelled due to foul trouble, I doubt it was in his strategy, but compelled due to foul trouble to play Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns together less. And as a result, the Knicks played better

defense and as a result they came back and won. I don't know how you saw it on temps but that's what I'd say. I mean I mean that is that is partially true you know Jalen Brunson had four fouls in the first half Carl Towns had three in the first half gave the ruffin thumbs up Jalen gave him the thumbs up yeah Jalen was very unhappy with the refs he spent most of the fourth quarter watching from the bench while Carl cooked but to me this night was about one thing it was about Carl Towns having the moment of his career. This is a guy who has made all NBA teams. This is a guy who's had a lot of success. It's also a guy who has been poked out a lot for his performances in

big spots. And the first three quarters of this game, Carl Towns and the Knicks were horrendous. They were called four points. They were floating around. They fell behind by 20 in the second quarter. They looked like they were going to get run off the court. They might have been run off the court. If Aaron Neesman doesn't spray his ankle halfway through the third quarter and sort of send the game into kind of a weird stretch in the second half of the third. But Carl Towns comes out to start the fourth quarter. Knicks are down 10. Seasons on the line.

Obviously, already lost the first two games at home. He scores 14 points in the first four minutes of the quarter, made shots from all over the place. He's dunking on people for N-1s. He's hitting threes from 30 feet away. I mean, obviously, he is one of the most talented scores at seven feet. ever seen. And he put all that stuff on display in the fourth quarter of this game. And when the Knicks traded for him back at September, you make that trade because you believe Carl Towns can deliver

in moments like this. And he did. And for all the other chaos that went on in this game, for all the other issues the Knicks have had in this series, they still have a chance to win it. They still have a chance to get to the finals because Carl Towns, in the biggest moment of his career to date, delivered in a way that, frankly, I did. not think he was going to be capable of doing. How come you don't say his full name? I'm very because I'm tired and I don't feel like saying all. A lot of people, I always call him Carl Towns.

The man's name is Carl Anthony Towns, give him the full respect. I gave him a lot of respect today because that was a big, that was a big time. That was a big time, big time performance. Hey, self-proclaimed, great issue and big men of all time and came through in the fourth quarter with that kind of performance, but it wasn't just shooting. It was an all-around scoring exhibition. Like you said, 20 points in the fourth quarter when the Knicks desperately needed it. I mean, if they don't come back and win that game, we're wasting time in game four.

Brunson on the bench most of the fourth quarter. Brunson didn't have a great game by his standards, you know, made some plays down the stretch. But they desperately needed Kat to have an all-MBA kind of performance. and it took a while, but he delivered not just the game, but with their season on the line. Well, and this is the one other thing, to Brian's point. The story of the past two days was Carl having a terrible defensive performance in game two, and that playing a big part in the Knicks going to Mitchell Robinson in the starting lineup. Mitchell Robinson played 30 seconds in the fourth quarter of this game.

Carl Towns is out there as the lone big, the entire quarter. they held the Pacers, one of the best offenses in the league, to 20 points. He held up defensively at the same time, right? This was at both ends, exactly what the Knicks needed from him in a gigantic spot. And the craziest part was he was horrible the rest of the game. Like, he and the Knicks were just completely dead in the water. And yes, they hit a couple shots late in the third to get it to 10. I didn't think they had a chance of coming back in the game at that point.

It didn't really feel like they were getting anywhere. and then all of a sudden Carl comes out becomes a human flamethrower and the game is tied four minutes in. Well, and when they're making shots, the Pacers are taking the ball out of the basket. Halliburton was not able to dictate tempo whatsoever in the fourth quarter.

I believe they had zero fast break points in the fourth quarter. And a lot like Minnesota did to Oklahoma City for all of game three, like if you can prevent the thunder from creating points off turnovers, you've got a chance to make them look like a pretty mediocre offense. Now, you're talking about preventing the best team in the league by far at creating and converting turnovers from doing that.

It's easier said than done. Same thing with the pacer's as far as like pushing the pace, getting out in transition. If you can take that away from them, which is a lot easier said than done. But if you can do that, then it's a different beast. If they have to grind out possessions in the half quarter,

and that's exactly what happened in the fourth quarter. I'm not sure he was so much. much of a flamethrower is that he was very aggressive going to the basket. Like he totally felt the need to force the issue. Well, I just meant getting hot, period. But yeah, you're right. But he was aggressive. He was aggressive in every way. And again, before I talk about this, I really want to be clear. Obviously, Jalen Brunson is potentially the MVP of the playoffs so far. And by the way, when he came back in with the last two minutes, he was totally the closer and made a huge driving layup.

Hit the game winning bucket. Guy was horrible. Again, he was horrible the entire game. He comes in after basically not playing in the fourth quarter. He immediately scores what ends up being the game winning basket. I think they won this game because they didn't play together. And again, that is not a judgment on Jalen Brunson, the closer, Jalen Brunson, the player. It is not a judgment on Carl Towns. It is a judgment on in this particular matchup. Like the reason that Carl Towns was able to have that quarter was because Jalen Brunson wasn't out there. I mean, yes and no. They got obliterated in the second quarter when only Brunson was out there. Well, I just say this. In the game, Towns is a plus six. Jalen is a minus six.

And that minus six was with him going, the down the stretch he crushed. You know what, though? It is because that stat is primarily because Kat caught fire in the fourth course. And I think flamethrower is appropriate. Six and nine from the floor, three of four from three point range. I mean, yes, more agree. progressive, also five to six from the line, but three or four from three point range. One of them absolutely should have been an and one.

I mean, but it just a high degree of difficulty shot, but he's plus 14. Okay, I know. Through three quarters, Brunson's minus 15, the worst on the team. Yes, I think, yes, I think that. It's not a commentary on him. And by the way, Rick Carlisle said it. Rick Carlisle said it in the post game. Yes, he did.

And it doesn't sound like anyone's listened to him. he said they played their better defensive players. Well, he got asked about them not scoring as much in the second half. And he said they played their better defensive players. And so what does that mean? Well, again, they played the entire fourth quarter with Carl Towns at center by himself and the Pacer scored 20 points. I know, but I think the key is they didn't have the two defensive holes out there.

I mean, they had Landers-Shammett out there for a good chunk of the fourth quarter. I know, Andrew Schammett was great today. Two and a half minutes. By the way, but you talk about Surgeon, Shaman played significant minutes tonight. Well, I think I saw the stat. The Leroyt played significant minutes tonight. I think I saw the stats. Those were both pretty good.

The Knicks played 15 lineups tonight and like seven of them had never played together before. Yes. Now, part of that was Tibbs decided to go into his bench and play Landry Shaman, D.Lon Wright. Right. And it was exacerbated by the fact that there was foul trouble. both with, I mean, definitely with, with Kat and with Brunson, but also Miles McBride got three fouls in a minute and a half. So it wasn't like Kat, it wasn't like Tibbs came into this game going,

I'm going to play seven lineups I've never played before. He started into the deep end of the pool, and next thing you know, he's thrashing around. And by the way, it was not working for a while. It wasn't working for the entire first three quarters of the game. Yeah. And then it worked in the fourth quarter because of Carl Towns. Now, there are some things I think you can take away from it.

But this game was about Carl Towns stepping up in a way. But Carl Towns isn't getting isolations at the top of the key with Brunson in there. And they weren't going to be getting those stops in my view with the two of them in there. What I'm saying is this. I think going forward, Tibbs is going to have to lean heavier into the stagger with those two guys. I am not arguing that you like bring cat off the bench or something like that. What I am saying is he may have to lean into the stagger. What was there?

He did. He did. I think he did do that. Like, Kat came out. I mean, that's why Brunson wasn't playing, by the way, in the fourth quarter. I mean, again, Tim said it. You had to peel back the layers. The way Tim said it was that group had a rhythm.

But when the season's on the line, you're not leaving Brunson on the bench till there's two minutes left. You are if he's both been horrendous and in foul trouble, which he was. But there was like, it got to like, okay, at five, Brunson coming out. That wasn't a foul decision. That was a match-up decision. Yeah, at four, it was... At four minutes. Okay, is Brunson getting out the end?

I didn't think Brunson was coming back in the game at all. It wasn't until... I was surprised when he came back in with $145 to go. Yeah, and he didn't get off the bench to check back in. And, like, they were shown Brunson until, like, after three minutes. And then he stood there for all. They were shown Brunson on the bench, and he was kind of looking down toward Tibbs. Like, you know, you ready for the clutch player of the year to come in?

Like, you know, coming back? And look, like, all the heat, the tip... took, has taken, and probably would have been absolutely flamed if they hadn't to come back in this game, Tibbs did the correct moves in the fourth quarter. He played that correctly based on what the situation demanded of it. And also, and this will be a lot about when we talk about the West Finals, certain things are through lines in series, but, and this is a cliche, but it's damn true. A lot of times playoff games are individually their own. And they're not always, not always duplicatable.

Sometimes, you know, if you're playing a six-foot-four guy against a seven-footer, he's going to be tough in game one in game six. More hoop collective podcast after this. But I don't know. I felt tonight they're going to, I think they're going to lean into the staggered bantams. I don't know. Like, maybe it was. But that's what I'm trying to tell you.

They were already in the game. Like, they, Carl came out like five, six minutes into the first quarter. They already were doing that. It didn't change the fact that. like Jalen Brunson played as bad as he's played in a game all season. He was terrible. I mean, he had a couple shots late to make it look better,

but he at one point was like four for 17 or four for 15 and minus 15 in 27 minutes and was the worst plus minus on the team. So like, yes, that having better defensive players out there helped, and it was part of what turned things around. If you had said before the game that the Knicks are going to play Carl Townsend Center for the entire fourth quarter and hold the Pacers to 20 points, you probably would have got pretty good odds on that.

So no matter who else was out there with them. Miles Turner, 0.04. He played the last 11 minutes, 0.04. So he certainly didn't take advantage of it there. Well, and this is the other thing. The Pacers coming into tonight's game were the only team in the playoffs that was shooting either 50% from the floor

and 40% from three. They were doing both. They had the highest field goal percentage and the highest three-point percentage of any team in the playoffs. But wait for them to have a bad shooting game, they went five for 25. And the most important number there to me is to 25.

This is the team that typically gets up a lot of threes. The Knicks did a good job of limiting them on threes. So it is going to be fascinating to see how some of these rotation things look in game four. But the Knicks also just did not look like the team that was up. They look like the team that was up too O for most of the game, rather than the one that was down to O in the Pacers, really until about midway through the third.

completely dictated things. And the knee-smith thing, that injury really, I think, gave the Knicks a chance because it really messed them up for a while. Well, and, you know, Brunce was asked for like a word to describe the series and he said, unpredictable. These are two of the best comeback teams in playoff history competing against each other, coming back against each other. We went over all the insane pacer's comeback stats, you know, with all like the final minute, ridiculous comeback stats. you know, here's one from stats and info, and then Jackson just threw another one in the chat. The Knicks are the first team to come back from 20 plus down three times in the same postseason since at least 98, basically in the play-by-play error.

20-point comeback playoff wins. There have been six in the 2025 playoffs and five in the last four playoffs combined. And of those six, three of them are the Knicks. and I don't know how many of them are the Pacers, but they've had, you know, forget about 20-point comeback wins, like nine points in the final minute. We obviously are in the comeback era of the NBA

for two big reasons, I think. One, and this, you know, throughout the regular season, how many 20-point leads got. Yeah, 20-point leads and what they used to be. Two reasons why I think that's the case. If you disagree, speak up. One, three-pointer. Yep.

Two, the pace of play. 100%. You know, the teams play fat, you know, this is the, you know, the last three, four years in the NBA have been the fastest pace of play since the, like, the 60s. And so there's way more possessions than a game.

So what? There's one other one, too, for these late game things. The new timeout rule. Teams are running out of timeouts in a way they did not in the past. And all these pacer comebacks in particular have all had the same exact thing

as part of them, which is teams are calling timeouts early to try to inbound the ball, and then for the final 30, 40 seconds, they don't have timeouts, guys are getting tired, guys have to force passes in to try to get out of turnover situations, and it leads to a lot more chaos. So specifically in the late game ones, I think the timeout thing is part of it too. I agree. Definitely the late game situational.

Also, as long as you're bringing up Tibbs, I want to say fourth quarter coaching, he saved two timeouts to the last minute, and that enabled him. It ended up not mattering because the Pacers couldn't score. But it ended up allowing him to go full offense defense. He was able to take Brunson and Towns out of the game because he knew he'd get him back in and timeout. So whatever Tibbs did, because, you know, Tibbs took a lot of heat for the way he played.

He coached at the end of game two, where he kept Towns out of the game. And seeing Towns score 20 in the fourth quarter tonight, that's not going to make that decision look better. However, I understood why he was doing it. It may have been the wrong decision, but I understand. Well, no, it wasn't, it wasn't the wrong decision. Let's, let's break this down.

Tibbs took Carl Towns out at the start of the fourth quarter because he made several awful defensive plays in a row. Like, he was hedging out on T.J. McConnell 30 feet from the basket. T.J. McConnell shoots threes like we do. Like, he's a terrific player, but he's not a three-point shooter. I ain't a lie. I played pickup ball this morning. I went O four from three. It was the NBA line.

But it's better than McMahon. But the point is, I'm, I'm, More confident than ever, I can go 725 to satisfy a bet. Okay. So I also don't think that was the number, but we're not going to do. It was the number. Did you? Back to McConnell.

That is why Tom Thibodeau sat Carl Towns in the fourth quarter of the game. That's why Tom Thibodeau changed the starting line. It was for defense. The answer is it was for defense. That's right. And that's why the thing about the fourth quarter today was Carl Towns also was part of a good defense in the fourth quarter. It wasn't just that he had 20 points. It's that the Pacers only scored 20 points themselves as a team.

I would have to look into all of these shots, but I suspect Carl had a lot to do with it. In the second half, the Pacers were four of 13 in the paint. Oh, I've got some. Listen, the Pacers scored seven points on three of 14 field goals with Cat as their primary defender, and the Pacers were three of ten when he contested their shot. Pacers averaged 19.5 points in games one and two with Cat as their primary defender.

I know all this because I think, Jackson's the best producer in the HOOC collect of it, despite what Bontem says. Well, I also think, despite what Bontem's bully wants to say. It might be easier for Kat when he's not being put into pick and rolls of Brunson, which, by the way, once they both got in the game together in the fourth quarter, Indiana immediately went to a pick and roll. They just couldn't score out of it. Yes, of course. I mean, that is something they're going to have to deal with in the series. But all my point is, is they were already starting to go away from it at the start of the game.

And then the combination of the foul trouble and the way the game was going sort of sent the game in a weird direction anyway. It's also worth pointing out that after the game, Josh Hart, who was taken out of the starting lineup in favor of Mitchell Robinson, said it was his idea to do that and that he went to Tibbs. And I talked to Tibbs about it previously as a possibility. And by the way, I'm pretty sure this is accurate that Josh Hart came in the game five, six minutes into each half and never came out, both halves and played 13. 24 minutes. So he still played plenty of minutes off the bench. What was the starting lineup? Do we have any, do you have the lineup data on what the start? They were all in the plus except for Brunson. I believe as a group they were minus one. But it was not minus 29, which is what that group

was in the first two games in the series, the original starting lineup. Josh Hart still got 10 rebounds, including the rebound of the game with, I think it was the one possession game in the fourth quarter. And he came first. flying in, got the rebound, hurt his knee on the play. I hope it was just... That was an insane rebound, though. I hope it was just a tweak because he kept playing. He was, he looked fine after the game.

Aaron Neesmith, though, by the way, was walking around with the limb. It's not the same ankle that he hurt early in the year when he had a pretty rough left ankle injury, but that's going to be something to monitor because he obviously is the only guy who's got any prayer of slowing down Brunson. As an amateur ankle,

watch an ankle injury, specialist. That's one of those that in the regular season you would say you could miss a game. It was tough because he like, the foot got caught in a weird dude where he kind of like dragged the toe and bent awkwardly. It wasn't a fun one to see. And then he stepped and it rolled. So it was like in the span of less than a second, there was like two weird, not good movements with that egg. That's, you know, look, I have no idea. I'm just telling you watching it, having seeing a thousand of these. That's the type of situation

where you're able to play the rest of the game, but then it's tough the next couple days. I went to college for eight years. Eight years of college tells me that it looked painful. And they really need him because he's the only guy

that can really do anything to slow Brunson down. I mean, I know he didn't hit shots today, but... Well, I think his shot-making ability has been proven in this series, though. Well, yes, and last year against them, too.

So, yeah, look, I'm just glad this series is 2-1 after three games because all three of these games have been awesome. The spread through them is Pacers plus two through three games. One of them went obviously to overtime. They've all gone down to the last. There's been a chance to tie the game in the final 10 seconds, I think, of all three games. It's been just everything we thought it would be, just not at all the way we expected it to be. and I thought it was funny. I was in the locker room tonight.

Josh Hart said, somebody asked about coming back, and he said, it would be nice if we didn't get down by that much. And that's exactly what Tyrese Alberton said in the locker room after game one. And I think it just, as you said earlier, McMahon, when Jayne the Brunson called the series Unpredictable,

I think that's really the only way to describe what has been a super fun and wacky series so far. Andrew Nymardt and Aaron Neesmith have both been excellent at both ends of the court in this game. regardless of the ankle injury, they were combined two of 17. And Benedict Matherin, who was, you know, a fringe six-man-of-the-year candidate because he was one of the leading scorers in the league coming off the bench. And, you know, in addition to being just a maniac the way he plays,

they can routinely count on him for bench scoring. I think he's averaging four points a game in the series. He did not make a basket in this game. I'm not sure he'll be playing much more in this series. Hey, was that, I have an important question. The fellow wearing the bright red and yellow, like, race car driver uniform who was holding the helmet and wearing the shades, like he was right behind Carlisle for a lot of games?

Was that just like a costume or was he like a real? It came right from the Indy 500 pits. That was the guy who won the 500. I think Alex Palo is his name. He was from Spain. He was at the game. He was not, no, that was not him. He was at the game and celebrated.

That was just some Yahoo. That was some Yahoo. Okay. The 500 is a religious experience here in Indianapolis. And it's, ironically, it's the fourth time that the Pacers have had this situation that they've had a game, conference finals game, the day of the 500, and they've lost all four. Racers and Pacers. Racers and Pacer, Pacer, yeah, it's not, it hasn't gone.

good. So I've been to two of those. And I think after COVID, they do put it on the air locally. But it was on the air here. When I first experienced it during the heat, the heat pacer wars when I was there for a couple of them. I was like, well, I guess I should turn. I know I don't watch, I don't watch racing. I was like, I guess I should turn it on to see what it's like. And it was not on. For decades, it was not on. It was on taped. It was on tape. It was on tape delay. But people listen to it on the radio. The radio is a big thing. And. And it was not on. Those people go to the race and then then come home and watch it. That's correct. I mean, what's unusual about that? Half the NBA you can't get in the local market. You're right.

Yeah, because so my son, my seven-year-old, came to the game, the game three. He doesn't know these two teams very well. Oh, ho, ho, ho. An Omaha guy. Because he can't watch them regularly. You don't get to watch them regularly. The son likes winners. I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure he likes the thunder. Yes. He, well. Well, he likes the wolves after last night, buddy. He has wolves gear. He was actually at two wolves games this year, so he knows who aunt is, et cetera. But anyway, and then what I know, and I think this is still the case, and if it's not the case, I apologize, I don't, I just, this is just ignorance. There's historically on, you know, the winner has to stay because on Monday there's this banquet.

Oh. That goes on for hours and hours and hours. God, sounds excruciating. And they televise that too. Oh, my God. People watch people eat? Well, it's just their speeches. Is it like the hot dog contest?

No, no chestnut or whatever. There's lots of speeches and ceremonies. And again, maybe this ended and I'm wrong. And eating? No eating. But there's a banquet without food? This gets worse at the time you say something. You don't see it.

It's off the camera. But. Too much for you to process. I remember like being, you know, it was during the Eastern Conference finals and we were in this restaurant. We wanted to watch the Western Conference Finals game. And they were like not until not till after the banquet. sir. I thought it was rough enough to watch people drive in circles. Then you got to watch it.

Well, imagine being at a sports bar during the Western Conference Finals and being told that you can't put the game on so they could watch the banquet on meat. Did you give them the, did you say, do you know who I am? I've heard you say that before. I don't know. They got somewhere to old Craves of Hollywood, baby. Got us a table, lickety split. Anyway, that series is now alive. Bon Temps, clear your schedule for the rest of the week. Yes, happy about that. Happy there will be at least another game in Madison Square Garden. You are definitely needed. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

All right. Shifting West to the series that McMahon and I are on. 42 pointer-rews there, McMahon. That was this 40, what was it, 143, 101, I think was the final? That sounds right. It was a whole lot and not nearly enough. And, you know, like you expect a team down to coming home to, like, you know, fight for its life. I mean, even if it's a 1-8 series.

Yes, and you expect a 68-win team to not get their doors blown off. Right. To use a technical term that Mark Dagonaut dropped today in game three at the Western Conference Finals. I mean, look, man, it's one game. Like, you don't get to carry the point total over. Correct. But there's never been a team beat by 40 points in the playoffs that went on a championship. I think there's a good chance that stat will not be true in a month.

But let's not pretend like this, it wasn't a massively disappointing performance. I remember talking to... Topsy Thunder. I remember talking, I was talking to Dave McMedman tonight, and I was telling them a story about the 2008-9 Cavs. It's a team I covered. They won 66 games. They lost two of the three games that year to the math. And there was one game where they went down to Orlando and they lost by 40.

And losing by 40 in 2009 was equivalent to like probably losing by 53 today. But I remember LeBron saying, I've never been down in a game by 40 points my whole life. That's no longer the case. It's happened quite a few times with the Lakers. But I remember thinking as I was watching that game going, you know, if the catch can get beat by a team by 40, They may be a problem there and ended up being a problem. The magic beat him in six and very easily could have been five if LeBron hadn't hit a buzzer beater in that series. By the way, though, that stat of no team's lost by 41 in title.

There's been one that's lost by 39. It was the Warriors in 22. There's been one that's lost, another one that's lost by 39. It was the Bucks in 21. It's been one that lost by 38. It was the Celtics last year. So again, you know, point differential. ain't what it used to be.

That's right. Yeah. Going both ways. Having said all that, first off, the Timberwolves were an extremely frustrated team at the end of game two. They were frustrated about the fouls that Jay Gildesis Alexander was getting, although they are fouls. They're not necessarily playoff fouls.

Like I was talking to a scout who was like, I'm watching this, the Pacer Nick series, and I'm watching how they're letting them defend each other. And then I'm turning on the Western Conference, and I'm watching Shay get, you know, February fouls. I think they are fouls, but they're just not what we're used to see in the playoffs. That's frustrating. Julius Randall gets benched in the fourth quarter. Nas Reid and Deante DiVincenzo can't hit a shot.

And they're just in a very frustrated place. Well, and they're frustrated because they feel like Shea's getting a good whistle on one in and they're not getting the whistle on the other end, you know, especially in that first half of game two when they shot a free throw. And I did think there's times, we talked about this, that they should have gotten in the line. but there's been a lot of complaining about all these turnovers and, hey, we're getting foul, we're getting fouled. And their coaches are looking at the plays and they're like, they're clean strips.

Like, you know, maybe there's a bump before, but like the strips are clean. But what the Timberwolves did last night. Well, hold on second. Hold on second. Yeah, Chris Finch hasn't complained. I mean, he's made some passy references, but he has not complained about the officiating. And he's not one who's shy to when he feels like it's appropriate. So they go to the plane and, you know,

talking to some of the players, there's some salty dudes, including Julius Randall. Yeah, yeah, especially I would say. Got benched, okay. And they all get on the plane, and this is not going to surprise you, but Ann Edwards is acting like there's no problem whatsoever. Don't worry about it. Like, he's pumping everybody up. We're going to be fine. Now, I know that that's easy to say, you know, if they lose by 40 in game three, the same thing could have been true. But Randall told me that he was already trying to cite himself. into not letting this be an issue because he's like, I preach, you know, he's been 11-year veteran now.

And he's like, I preach to the young guys, you know, be a professional, whatever. You've got to be a professional. And like, so he's trying to like talk himself into being okay with getting benched. And aunt is in such a good mood that by the time they're halfway home, he's actually like finds himself like smiling because why aunt was just pumping everybody up. And, you know, Nas Reid said the same thing, you know, and Nas is like, aunt doesn't let you get in a bad mood. and even Terran Shannon Jr.

Who didn't play and gave one and two, he was saying how Nause was, Aunt was affecting him. And then I will say that all that is nice. Anthen came out in the first quarter. Yes. And played himself to exhaustion. He put forth so much energy in that first quarter

that he was literally almost needed oxygen at the end of the quarter. And outscored the timbreed. rules by himself while grabbing all kinds of rebounds, wreaking havoc defensively, distributing. Like, it was an all-around 100% dominant performance. You know, Finch today was talking about ants' confidence and calm. And basically, the confidence has always been there, born with it. The calm is something that has kind of been a developed thing for him over the course of his NBA career.

Yeah. Well, and all that is. true and the wolves were incredibly impressive from the opening second of the game and it also was i think a sign of the youth of the thunder and they had two very impressive games back to back they took a two-o lead and it was a little bit of a different situation because indiana when they lost the calves at home uh being up to oh because they'd won two on the road but it's kind of the same thing right like you're coming off this denver series it's this absolute slugfest series they win the first two games going away. Jay gets MVP has a great game. They dominate that game,

right? Thinking, ah, man, this is going to be nice and easy. Then you walk into Minneapolis, the wolves are angry, spent a couple days stewing over how it went, and they came out with just way more desperation and way more force from the opening tip. Yeah. That's the word that the Thunder used. And, you know, Chet Hongren, I'm not looking at the direct quote, but he basically said it's not complicated. Wherever they wanted to go, they got there.

We didn't stop them. And they've just physically punked them in this game, and they punched him in the mouth, and the thunder, you kind of kept waiting, are the thunder going to make any kind of runner? Is this going to get interesting? But Ant played himself to exhaustion.

Then what happens? T.J. Shannon gets the first real minutes of the series, and he goes for nine points in a four minutes, in a flurry. So, and aunt not only played himself to exhaustion, but the crowd was in a frenzy. And then T.J. Shannon comes in, this rookie who's, you know, fringe rotation guy, he just takes that thing to, to another level. And there was like a few minutes span at the beginning of the third quarter that you thought,

can the thunder pull off? It was 11 to 2. Yeah. Can the thunder pull off another miracle? Like, I was there when they came back from 29 down in Memphis. Now, Jaya got hurt. and that started the comeback, whatever. But 26 down at halftime, they came back and won that game.

So you're thinking like, dude, is this? And then they got it down to 22, and that was that. They never mounted any kind of real comeback threat. The plug was pulled with, you know, more than two minutes left in the third quarter. Just complete and utter domination by the Timberwolves. The thunder tasted their own blood, you know, like I haven't looked at, again, I'm using another diagonal term. He had some good ones a day.

That's what he said? Yeah, the Thunder Tastes, we taste our own blood is what he said. He said, it's not necessarily a bad thing to taste your own blood. Well, it sounds like Joe Missoula. He's back. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, we talked about the historic point differential in the playoff stat.

I took a beating. I haven't looked at it since that game, but it ain't what it was. That's no kidding. It's not nearly as historic. I can promise you that. The other thing, so the first. first two games, I wouldn't say that the, well, maybe they would disagree. I wouldn't say that the wolves played that much zone, but they did play zone because that had worked for them

against the Thunder in the regular season and Denver had some success in the half court. A lot of success for Denver, but yes. In game two specifically, the Thunder, well, I mean, it was hard to even compute in that game because the Thunder just really weren't bothered at all. No, they were. Shea and Jade have walked into. clean, easy for them, mid-range look after mid-range look. So I don't think they were playing great zone, but the point was, is that they pretty much abandoned that in game three, and the way Finch described it was, we went back to our fastball. And it's not just they went back to playing man. They went back to playing a much more aggressive, like in your skin.

Yes. The defense. And look, Rudy was not a factor in the first two games defensively. like one of the plays in the first quarter, like, and dominated, but how about when Rudy comes out and they double Shade near half court, Rudy gets a strip, you know, now he didn't. She was quite surprised. He didn't get to finish the dunk on the other end,

but he gets a strip, it takes it in for the dunk, and she had to foul him. And then he was just like Rudy wasn't playing that passive drop that you just can't do against Shay and J-Div. You just can't let those guys walk into 14. Once Shea gets to, the reason you can play with drop is because you're denying the drive. That's the point, right? Of the drop is you're denying the drive.

And he wants to get to those spots and pull up. That's right. She's like, fine. You're going to force me into the mid-range. I'll take it. And these are layups for me. He's one of the best mid-range shooters we've ever seen. So you've got to play up against him and and Jalen Williams.

Also, Nas Reid, you know, he was 0 of 12 on threes in the comfort in games one and two. He had his first four shots, including both two threes. Like things just, you know. Well, yeah, one thing I've definitely noticed, and I will say this with complete confidence in my analysis, is the Timberwolves are much better when Nasreed hits every shot than when he hits none. Let me write that down. I should have done with that. I've shared that with some of the wolf staffers. So they all agreed.

Lucky for you, they have your input to fall back. I mean, I'm telling you, I might even, you know, ESPN better bid high because I'm in demand. Well, you're elite. you're an elite guy at the bar post game. Nobody analyzes. Easy, easy, easy. I've been given a JJ Reddick championship shape speech by the old IT department, so you ain't going to be able to find me at bars postgame for a while. And let me just say, you're sticking to it. I can vouch for that. Hey, I've played pickup ball twice during this series.

I tell you, pretty dominant performance by me in the last two games. We're going to talk about the first three today. Let's go on. All right. I need more data to be able to say with, this series pivoted or not, is my analysis. And, look, the thunder of all people can tell you with a straight face that a blowout doesn't necessarily mean anything for the next game. I mean, they smoked the nuggets by 40s, whatever it was in game two and lost game three. Like, you don't get to package those points and bring them in the next game.

Well, I will say this. Mark Dagonal has said repeatedly, whether they won by 40s. or lost by 40, that each game is its own. Yeah, its own chapter, blah, blah,

he has repeated that. So it was easy, when he says that, it wasn't just lip service. But we did learn something in game three, and that's, look,

the Timberwols ain't scared, and they're not going to go out meekly. They're not just going to, oh my gosh, 68 wins, and look at all this great defense and Shay's the MVP. They're not just going to roll over.

And I can promise you this. As She's the MVP, deservedly. And Ant, you know, I don't know where he finished. I don't know where he finished on seventh, whatever it was. Or eighth, yeah. Yeah, seven, whatever.

Ant's not walking out on the court wondering if he can be the best player on the floor. Yeah, that bad I can tell you. Also, we'll say this about, we haven't talked about Julius Randall at all. He was a total 100% pro. He got benched. He wasn't getting it done. He had a great first half of game one. the next five quarters he goes five of 16 was not effective he was there four hours early for game three

and he had 23 I think like uh I think he was nine to 15 he he had a professional response and you know the thing about the wolves is they do have a bunch of young guys but gobert has been around a long time Mike Conley's been around a long time Julius has been around for 11 years like it was very mature response to not just obviously down two oh but things were so much going against them and it was a very mature response yeah and look man yeah now it's time just now it's time for the thunder to do the same thing you're right yeah and julius randals had a a like he's been a big time pro all season think about the circumstances for him and like obviously cats had a huge game for for the next night has had an all-nba-cccdainer

but these guys were traded two days before camp, like out of the blue. I mean, you know, not like we had inklings. There was interest and all that. But like it's not like they thought they were getting traded. For them, they felt like they were blindsided by this. And for Julius, there was a lot of frustration this season. Like the fit was something they had to spend most of the season figuring out. There's a lot of clunkiness, a lot.

And he was getting a lot of heat. He was getting a lot of blame when they didn't come shooting out of the gates, not necessarily internally, but just in the discussion around the team. And the guy played his best ball down the stretch, aside from one game, has had a great playoffs. You know, for a dude who's not known as a playoff performer, he has been this season. And so I don't think we should be surprised at the way he responded to his first clunker of this postseason.

A key part of my reporting on Julius Randall was that he switched his pregame music from Drake and Nipsey Hustle to Young Jeezy. Well, listen, you can be going to make you know, I can. This is the stuff I've got my finger on the pulse on this. Well, you do have that OVO ESPN Jack. Oh, no, you don't. I've got that. And listen, if my contract negotiations don't go well, it'll be on eBay. Your boy, too, change.

It's going to be very upset. And your other boy, Jada kiss, is also going to be very upset. She's got out of a young Jeezy. It was James White, Flight White. Remember Flight White? Oh, yeah. Sure do. He's one of the wolves' assistants, and he suggested Young Jeezy.

I would just say that the reason I gave you the jacket was that not so much that I was, I didn't want to have a horse in that fight. I think it was important to stay neutral. I think it was more so that you didn't have room in your luggage, but. That is the correct answer. I said I wanted to stay neutral. I did a whole thing. I did like that.

You know, I did the technique of like you sit on the suitcases. Like I was pretty good. I was pretty strong. I got at home and I'll tell you, like I said, and you might see it early October on eBay if things don't go well for me. I was in, I was in the lobby of the hotel,

Bontemps yesterday. What was the day was it? Friday. Saturday. Friday. Today's Sunday. Whatever. Whatever.

When McMahon arrived, I was in Minneapolis. Oh, no, that was two days ago. I was in the, I just happened to be in the lobby. I was happy to see him. We're going out to a nice dinner. And people who were with me reacted in shock and awe at the amount of luggage he had. Listen, there's two check bags and a duffel bag and then a computer bag. Here's a deal.

Listen, the guy, there's a reason the guy takes forever to get his work done. He's got a lot of, he's got a lot of accessories. He's got to have a lot of set and ready to. accessories it's not accessories i got had to pack for eight games so that's eight suits well damn you can't repeat kicks so it's eight suits eight kicks but there's like a lot of accessories no it's not accessories there it's kicks and suits then you got to have you know your sweats for the non stuff and then like we're hooping so i got to have another pair of of kicks you know to hoopin and if we're hooping damn. Now here, the high price is an accessory, but it's a necessity because trust me,

we get done with this. I'm putting that thing on, old lower backs. I'm old and I'm stiff. Got to pack the icy high. Shout out to Anthony Katz, CEO of Hyper Ice. Yeah. I'll listener. Let me just for the record, Bontes. That's just a count. That's just a count of 10 pairs of shoes plus 11. Because I did. I got the championship shape speech, and so I had to pack some running shoes for the elliptical. Okay. So now are up to 11 pairs of shoes. 11.

So, okay, so there's a bag, the check bag. As I said, there's a lot of accessories. We have to have a lot of accessories. We have a lot of stuff to prepare, a lot of stuff to think about. He does, well, I will say, he does look spectacular. But I will say that I want to point out that McTen, Dave McMinneman, was also there. And when people expressed shock and awe, McMinneman leapt to McMan's defense. Nobody likes an accessory.

Just like nobody's slower than McMahon, except for McManneman. He's like, do not judge an accessory more than McMahon is. Listen, McMedman was like, do not judge a man's, what's the difference? He's managing it. He's not your luggage. You don't have to take it. I've got a sister. And Dave loves pickup hoops.

And when Dave is going to play pickup hoops, there's a lot of accessories that are being, oh, no. We're in tights, wearing sleeves. He's got all the stuff. All the stuff. He had the Kobe Grinch's on today. looking good, looking good, all that Q's gear, you know, I mean, probably why we finished two and three instead of on the, on the bright side. But also, I kind of got scorched game two,

angle lie. But no, McMinneman will fiercely protect your honor as long as it serves his agenda. All right, with that, we got two series gentlemen and onward and upward to game fours. And we will speak to you after them. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you to McMinneman for having McMahon's back. And he arranged a gorgeous dinner and watch party for us on Sunday night.

I missed that one, but I was there for the 830 Uber. It's an awful freaking game to go play pickup. It was pretty impressive. It was at a French restaurant, and I brought my seven-year-old who's here, and he learned a whole bunch of French. Oh, S-cargo, wee. And they served him some, for the table, there was some French delicacies that were brought to the table. And there was a collection taken up to get my son to try a caviar.

Oh. And it got up to $14. That's a pretty good price. That was the key. $12 wasn't enough, but $14, that got him to do it. And he did try it. And it did not go down the hatch. But he tried it, which were the terms of the negotiation.

And no one negotiates like my son. He's a lead negotiator. Well, that runs in the family. So anyway, but thank you to McMediman. Anyway, thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching and listening to The Who Collective. We'll be talking to you after the game force. Adios amigos.