Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Lakers get their center. Knicks get their coach. Beal wants out of Phoenix

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the latest NBA Offseason Shake-Up's.Lakers lock in their center with Deandre AytonKnicks bring in Mike Brown as head coachBradley Beal wants out of Phoenix 2:01 Lakers get the center that they wanted 11:38 The Knicks hire Mike Brown as their new head coach 27:20 Bradley Beal in serious buyout discussions out of Phoenix Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Thursday afternoon just before Independence Day, joining us from the Get Up studio on the set there in the Robert A. Iger building,

the brand new Robert A. Iger building in Soho, Manhattan, Tim Bonteps. Hello, everybody. You're the only Disney employee working in that building hours before any other people here. I can tell you that. I just went and got coffee in the cafe and the place is deserted. So the thing about our new studios there is literally it's right next to all the ABC studios. So it's like Good Morning America, Mark and Kelly, The View, Get Up First Take. And the other day, I had to, there was just like bathrooms there where, you know, they're all gender bathrooms.

And I had to wait for Joy Behard to finish going to the bathroom. so I could go. And so it's inevitable that one day I'm going to walk down the hall and Stephen A and Whoopi Goldberg are going to be locked in some sort of debate in the hallway. It's only a matter of time before it happens. All right, join us from Dallas, Texas. He's getting ready to go to Salt Lake City. It's Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners? I tell you, there's a little bit of time there where I thought Whoopi Goldberg might actually end up being the Knicks coach like in that move. Eddie, but they found somebody else. They found somebody who had a better resume.

You know what the best part of Eddie is? A lot of our listeners slash viewers of a certain age are going to have any idea what you're talking about. They like have these great trash talk sequences with like Brad Doherty and like Avery Johnson and I can't remember who else. It's awesome though. I highly recommend it.

All right. We have a coach in New York, but first, I think we should talk about the Lakers getting a center. That was them getting DeAndre Aiton on a two-year deal. I have to say, while DeAndre Aten has flaws in his game, which we have discussed in this podcast over the course of years, when you don't have a center and you're limited in what you can spend, getting a player who can produce on that level for that money, which was about $8 million a year, is a decent save. So while he's not the perfect player, nor do I think he's the long-term fit as the center for Luca,

it is a much better position than they were in two days ago, Bontemps. Yeah, I mean, look, we've been talking about the Lakers getting his center, literally from the moment they traded for Luca Dachich back in, I guess, late January, early February. I don't remember exactly what the date was. They obviously made the Mark Williams trade that they rescinded almost immediately afterward. And ever since then, it's been like, all right, who the Lakers is going to get at center? And yes, DeAndre Aten is a flawed player.

He is far from a perfect player. There is a reason he was just bought out of the max deal he was on. That being said, he also is one of the most talented centers that was available this summer. He could argue he was the second most talented center after Miles Turner on the market. And the Lakers getting him on this deal, a two-year deal at less than the full mid-level. I think player option on the second. in year. That is a, that is to me a real win for them to get this deal done. And that's not to say that DeAndreighton is going to be an all-star with the Lakers, but he is a guy with a lot of talent

who fits in many ways what they need. He could be a presence inside, particularly on offense. He's not often played to the level he is capable of on defense. But if the Lakers can coax some good play out of him, he could really make a significant impact this year for them. It'd be a big upgrade over Jackson Hayes. And also, yes, he's not a max player, but it is a far different calculus to become a good signing when you have to clear being a guy that's not essentially what is the room mid-level around $8 or $9 million than if you're making $35 million. So the Lakers still have a lot of holes. They're still, I think, outside the top four in the Western Conference.

But, yeah, Jadryton will help them. I think it's a good signing and at least gets them started while they've seen several other teams in the West make upgrades over the past week or so. I would argue he was the most talented center on the market. He's the most physically gifted center on the market. You know, the problem with DeAndre Aten has never been about talent. He's seven foot, two 50 chiseled, athletic, has good touch. Like he has all the talent in the world. Called him a talented Dufus on get up. And I don't mean Dufth, Ufus is in a lack of intelligence. I just mean, he tends to be foolish.

I mean, he's, you know, just like he tends to just wear down his coaches, his veteran teammates, just with not malicious stuff, but he's late. You know, he's not paying attention to detail. He's snowed in, you know, all these kind of things. There was a, I did a piece on him a couple years ago when he was sort of ascending, when the suns were ascending. And I remember finding all of these videos of Chris Paul screaming at him in the huddle.

Like every single huddle, Chris Paul was yelling at him about something. Like every single night. Now, two- And it's out of coincidence, that was the best stretch of his career when he had Chris Paul directing him around the court. To DeAndre Aiton's credit,

he did play a significant role on a team that went to the, NBA finals was up to O in the finals. You know, also to Chris Paul's credit. I was really down on the fit of DeAndre Aiton with the Lakers because I know like, hey, if he's going to be not rolling hard and wanting post-ups and all that kind of stuff, Luca is not a guy known for an extraordinary level of patience with his teammates. I think JJ Reddick's patience could certainly be tested. And I talked to a couple people yesterday about DeAndre. I talked to one former Phoenix staffer, one former Portland staffer. And the former Phoenix staffer is like, this is not going to work.

He's going to do this little half-roll thing. Luke is going to just get fed up with him. J.J. Reddick's going to get driven crazy. This is going to be a disaster. The Portland, former Portland staff was like, listen, everything that went wrong in Portland, Some of it was on DeAndre, some of it was on the organization. His feeling, though, was Aitin's going to understand the situation here. He's not a max player.

He's a guy who's been dumped by two franchises. And as you said, it's basically playing on a prove it deal for the room mid-level here, you know, with one-year deal plus a player option. And that that's going to create a sense of urgency. It's going to create a kind of hunger that maybe he has. has not had at his first two stops in the league. And I said, okay, is he going to do the things you have to do to thrive playing with Luca? And he says, if he knows he's going to get past two, he'll roll hard. You know, and he pointed out that he was a very effective role finisher with

Chris Paul during their time together with his son. So after that conversation, I am a little bit more optimistic about this. And the thing is, if Aiton, it's all about attitude. It's all about willingness to do dirty work. If he does those things, it does have a chance to be a long-term fit. I think it's either going to be a long-term fit or a short-term circus fire. Yeah. So I would also say, I think the Lakers need even another center because. Well, you need more than one, and right now they have one. You probably need a second one. I will also add one thing really quick. It is worth pointing out

that I believe, and you guys can correct me from wrong, I'm pretty sure that it was the Diadra-Aiton side of the equation that went to the Blazers and helped orchestrate this buyout. I think in part because they sort of saw the writing on the wall in Portland and saw that they drafted Donovan Klingin last year. They drafted Yang Hansen, I believe, is how we're saying it this year. And they

clearly were going in a different direction at the center spot. And to McMan's point, this is DeAndreighton's chance to reset what people think of him and his career going forward. Like if this goes well, there's a lot of cap space next summer. He is an extremely talented player. I believe he's still only 26. Like he could still cash in and have a totally different second half of his career or he could go the other way and be a guy that's looking at a minimum deal a year from now. And like that's all entirely down to how. And, he handles what is a pretty great opportunity in front of him. Well, and I think that was the concern from DeAndre Aiton, his agents, when they went to

Portland. Obviously, Portland was looking to move on from him. Portland was, you know, it made all the sense of the world for Portland to have phased him out this year and gone with their young bigs. And if Aiton's kind of, and look, I don't think Aiton's a guy who's great at masking his feelings or preventing his feelings from being evident when he's on the floor. So if he's feeling unappreciated, if he's feeling, you know, maybe even disrespected, unwanted and all those kind of things, and he kind of mopes through a season, then he's looking at maybe being a minimum guy next year. Now he gets basically all, I think he might have left a little bit on the table. I'm not sure a minimum guy, but okay.

Okay, but a scrap heap guy. He's in a situation now. He has a golden opportunity to restore his value with a franchise that has a glaring need for a long-term solution at that position. And if you are a big guy in the league, you've got to get over the post-up stuff, but there's no better point guard to play with than Luke Dodgage. Derek lively had more dunks during a rookie season in which he missed time with injury than DeAndre Aitens had in any year in his career. That's a while. I mean, all you got to do is roll hard and roll hard and be willing to clean up the, you know, the trash.

And he's going to get four dunks a game, you know, plus whatever else. And like, there will be, I think there will be opportunities for him to punish switches. Like his post-ups have to come off of punishing smaller defenders on switches, not thinking, okay, this is a play call for me, or forget the play call, let me go post up in the, you know, with the nail and try to operate. Like that stuff's got to get scrapped. But he's got a chance to feast just thriving as the pick and roll partner with Luca Donchage. Well, we'll be keeping an eye on the Lakers offseason moves. It's still not clear what their roster is going to look like. So we'll see. It's now clear who the Knicks head coach is, Mike Brown.

I met Mike Brown in 2005 when he was hired as the head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers, like in the first week of June. And I remember at the press conference, the Cavs didn't have a GM yet. That was interesting. And so owner Dan Gilbert hired him. And at the press conference, he gave him a clock because he was giving him the gift of time. Oh, my God. Couldn't make this up. I thought he was giving him a clock because he was on the clock.

I thought that's what he was in New York. He's already on the clock. Yeah. I thought it was going to be a morning on first take. Evan Cohen asked him this morning at first take. He said, is Mike Brought already on the hot seat? I said, obviously, because he obviously is already on the hot seat. No, there's no fault of his own.

It's a situation he's walking into. During the playoffs, and this is a true story. There's another time during the playoffs where Dan Gilbert, I'm not saying he himself didn't. He may have had somebody. do it. He left a whoopee cushion on the seat at the, for the playoff press conference on the podium. He left a whoopee cushion and the Mike Brown sat on. I tell you what was the point of that. To make far Mike Brown? Yeah, too embarrassing. Okay. I might, I might see if I can pull that

off at the live show with Bond Timson, Vegas. Dan, Dan Gilbert, prime Dan Gilbert in the Twitter era really would have been true Twitter era really would have been something like the comic sans letter was obviously the nascent days of Twitter but if you can imagine like the last few years if that had happened in like 2023 I the internet would have literally melted if that happened so he he bought the calves March 1st 2005 okay on April 1st one month in one month is the owner he by the way in that month he fired the coach and the calves when it were plummeting from being like in third or fourth place to out of the playoffs just so you know and on april first he wanted to put out a release that said that the cows were signing dennis rodman

to a 10-day contract as an april fool's joke now he didn't put it out because this PR staff talked him out of it but that was because that was one month into his his uh his time his owner well you remember the good boy fellow did delbert not a boring fellow The people had to full jokes when he hired an actor to pretend to be a refter during a timeout and then got into a fight with the actor, and Del Harris turned white as a coast, freaked out, hurried to break it up. Oh my God.

So on Mike Brown, what you need to know about Mike Brown, and I don't think he does this anymore, but it just helps you understand a little bit about him. he for years used to bring his own iron on the road because he wanted to he had the thing where he would iron um he he would and his ironing board because he had this pre ironing board he might mean you can't talk about anybody pack it anything giving you pack

five thousand pairs of shoes He definitely packed his preferred iron, and the man who was in charge of packing his iron was Jordie Fernandez. Jordy Fernandez was the lowest staffer on the Cav staff, and just over from Spain looking for a foothold in the NBA. And Jordy was kind of like, I think he, I don't know what his role was, but he was basically Mike Brown's gopher. I mean, he definitely helped out in practices and stuff like he was doing coaching, but he was also Mike Brown's gopher. And he was in charge of packing the iron. And Mike had this thing where he, before every game,

would have an ironing board set up in the coach's office home and road, and he would iron his shirt. He wanted to be the one to iron it. It was like the Zen thing for him to iron his shirt before he went out to the game. Not an OCD fellow whatsoever, Mike Brass. Right. Well, I think it's just, it more goes. to the point of how

sort of disciplined and persnickety he is. He was raised as an Air Force brat. He graduated high school at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. He was a dominant point guard, I believe, on the Ramstein Air Force Base High School or whatever. Yeah, but anyway. I remember like early, you know, my years covering covering Mike Brown.

He was so obsessed with defense. Like the cows, like the cows lose a game like 89-86 or something. And so you'd be in the post-game and you'd be like, coach, offense really struggled tonight. You know, he needed some more, he needs some more help for LeBron. He was like, we should have, we lost 89-86. We should only give it up 85. And that sort of process led to the 7977 games in the conference finals against the Pistons.

It's going to be a great fit for Kat. Having said that, when the Kings won the or got to the playoffs for the first time in 16 years, two years ago, I think it was. and I think it was in 23, and he was named coach of the year. They led the league in offense. And I think they led the league in passes per game. And so- Well, he was the best offense in NBA history at that point. Well, every offense seems like it's that way every year.

Right. The record that gets broken every year, yes. So Mike Brown has come a long way in 20 years as a coach. He's really, he's still going to be hokey. I know that that thing that's going around. the internet which was his his I don't know he called a rant when he was talking about his thought process on how he wants the kings to play and he kept saying we have to be good possession after possession after possession he kept saying it like 17 times over just need to be methodical

by stacking or playing the right way possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession and people thought like he was there was a glitch in the matrix that is how he operates he you know he's a pound the rock gregg popovich disciple so uh i can see how he would win a coaching search that would that mostly featured longevity as opposed to star power or whatever because he, over the course of many conversations, kind of wears you down and be like, you know what, this guy does it. So I don't know if it's going to mean the Knicks greatness, but that's who he is. He also had the advantage of actually not being employed by another NBA franchises their head coach

in this particular coach and search. But listen, it was a clumsy coaching search by the Knicks, but he's a qualified guy. Obviously, he's been a two-time coaching. of the year. I do think he'll be able to, you know, walk into the Knicks facility and, and, you know, command respect from the players. The other thing in New York, I think it's important that you have a coach who's not going to be like intimidated by the media cesspool that is New York City to borrow one of my favorite Rick Carlisle lines. I was going to say, these are your peers you're talking about there. I say, I say it with love. Carlyle did not. He was mad at him because they were

writing mean things like Mike Woodson's job was in jeopardy, which is literally what he was upset about. But seriously, I think Mike Brown, you know, he, for as persnickety as he may be, he's an engaging guy, he's a funny guy, you know, I don't think he's going to have any issues, kind of develop and rapport and managing, you know, demanding media core, demanding beat core. I don't think that's going to be a problem. How much do you think his time as a warrior's assistant kind of changed him and altered his approach? A lot. A lot.

Completely altered the way he mellowed out. And I could tell Mike Brown stories for two, three hours. But, you know, he was a lot for players. He wore out the calves his first time around. a little bit. He wore out the Lakers in his time there. He was kind of known for marathon practices and marathon shootarounds especially. And I think being with that sort of very mature multi-champetship winning team mellowed him out. I think it made a big difference in the way he approaches stuff. And for a team like the Knicks, who has

you know, some pretty self, you know, Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart, Mikhail Bridges, these are, these are, these are very mature dudes. So I actually think that that kind of, that kind of, you know, arc in his career will probably help him. I was out there with the Warriors for a good chunk of Mike's time out there. And I definitely think it meled him out to some degree. I mean, he was always, as Brian laid out, a very hard charging guy. I mean, I think he talked about that when we were on, when he was on the pot a couple of years ago during the finals.

I think it was after that at first King's seasons in 23. And he definitely, I think, sort of watched how Steve Kerr handled things and took a bit of a different approach. And I do think it led to a lot of the things that went right in Sacramento. And the only thing I'd say about the general reception to Mike here is use this analogy a few times today. I think you could draw a lot of parallels, at least if you want to be optimistic about it for the Knicks, to 30 years ago when the Yankees hired Joe Torrey, when the fired Buck Show alter in a very similar circumstance, a guy that had gotten the Yankees back to the playoffs is a very popular guy with the media and in the city, and it was controversial by George Steinbrenner to fire him.

And when they hired Joe Tori, who, like Mike Brown was 55 years old, like Mike Brown, it coached three places before, like Mike Brown hadn't won a championship before. Joe Tori's case he had won a playoff game before. They got destroyed for hiring him. The coolest show is the back page of the Daily News. Nobody thought it was going to work. Everybody thought it was going to be a disaster. And that led to 12 straight playoff appearances in four titles.

Now, I'm not saying the Knicks are going to become a dynastic team. But in my opinion, of the coaches that were available after, as McBan said, they struck out on the currently employed guys who may have been potentially better fits. I always thought if it got down to people that were available, that Mike was the only real viable option among them. He's definitely going to be able to handle the media part of the job well. This is a Knicks team that needs to be picked up on the defensive end. Mike has all sorts of credentials as a defensive coach.

And he showed with the Kings, he's got the ability to run a sophisticated offense. And, you know, one thing you could say about the Knicks is that their offense was a little predictable while being pretty good and that some more bald movement and some more creativity at that end could improve things for them some. So, you know, we'll see how it goes. But I certainly think when you look at the options that were available, this is about as good as the next could have hoped for. And now it's just a matter of whether he can live up to the very high expectations that are on him because whenever he gets introduced sometime next week from then on, it's going to be, you know, finals or bust. I mean, I don't know if from.

will necessarily be championship or bust here, but it's certainly going to be finals or bust. And if he doesn't do that, you know, the next spring is not going to be pretty here. Yeah, and that's why I would say to him, get your money. Oh, he'll get his money. Yeah. Wasn't there a time when he's being paid by three teams? There was, yes. He'll get his money.

Man can negotiate. When he came back to Cleveland, you know, he got fired by the Cavs, then he coached the Lakers, and then he got fired by the Lakers. and he came back to Cleveland, and he was so skeptical because they hadn't gotten LeBron yet. And, you know, there was this long rebuild. And I think he got a five-year contract or it might even have been longer. It might have been, it was a very long contract. It was like, okay, we're going to commit to you, Mike. Because, you know, he had gotten fired in Cleveland the first time around despite five, 50-win seasons,

and two-60-win seasons. He had back-to-back. He had to keep the clock. He got to keep the clock. They fired him after back-to-back. By the way, if, LeBron, if you go back-to-season, he had back to win. like obviously they had LeBron James. Those Cavs teams were not loaded with talent.

Like he did an unbelievable job with those teams. Like seriously, like they were not, it was LeBron and a bunch of role players and he won 66 games with them. Like he did a really good job with that cast team. In all honesty, you know, I know NBA TV like might even be going away. I don't know.

But like if you, if anybody has ever seen the famous, you know, 48 special where LeBron had 48 points in Detroit, by the way, if you ever watch that game, it used to be on NBA TV all the time. You will, you know, all these dudes who talk about how much better the league was in like the 80s and 90s. Just go back and look at the 2000s. The 2000s.

Forget about the 90s and see that game is almost unbearable to watch. Sorry about the drilling in my wall next to me. It had to be done. That's why you've got to say is had to be done. The life of the star. Anyway, if you go back and watch that game, yes, you will see LeBron have an incredible. second half. You will also see some great coaching by Mike Brown in that game, was an elite coaching game. But anyway, this is here nor there. He's been fired four times. So he's far from

the perfect coach, but he has a lot of success on his resume. Coaches get fired. That's just, you know, it's a matter of when, not if. Almost every single coach gets fired. Pop was an exception. There's not many exceptions. All right. We'll see if the Knicks. We'll see if the next, we'll see if do anything else to their roster they look like they're set but that's some big unknowns out there in the league right now we've got a lot more podcast to do this summer but um all right so a little bit ago as we're recording this i'm foreshadowing yeah there are what do you want me to say you know i'm not getting into it right now what you said um i'm not getting aggregated on july 3rd okay we're just not he's not he's not locking any doors no more door locking he's not locket any doors

i'd be hear that line all day today today that's for sure. Yeah, well, we're a little low on news at the moment. Okay, so Dwayne Rankin of the Arizona Republic reported that the sons are in a buyout, serious buyout discussions with Bradley Beale. This is something that has been in the ether for a few days now. Maybe by the time this pod comes out, it'll have been done. Maybe it won't be done, but we all know that this is true, that they are in serious

discussions. And so on the heels of Dame Lillard, getting bought out. getting basically waived and stretched on 113 million, Bradley Beal is probably going to get bought. It probably is not going to be that high because I think Beal is intending or at least discussing. Well, here, it can't be. It can't be that high.

So, there's a quirk in the rules. We talked about this with the Dame Lillard wave and stretch where a team cannot have more than 15% of the salary cap in dead money at any time. So in the past few years, the sons have at different points, waved and stretched E.J. Liddell, former Ohio State Star, and Nassir Little. And those two guys this year are going to be on the books, according to Bobby Marks, for about $3.8 million. So the maximum amount that you can have on your books

is somewhere around $23 million this year in dead money. So because of that, Bradley Beale, who's currently owed about $110 million, I think it's just a little bit less than what Dame's deal was, he's got to give back at least $13 or $14 million or so to allow it to be a legal buyer. So the sons are going to end up with basically the same Deb cap hit that the bucks are going to have on their books. But because of this Nassir Little signing that they are this wave and stretch in the past, they have to get Brad to give back a little bit just so they can actually do it. And look, typically a buyout is a guy gives back the money he's getting on his next deal. You know, it's, I don't know. Is there a situation now where Beale can get $14 million?

Is there a team? Is there a team that has the full non-taxie? taxpayer mid-level, I don't, I don't see what we... There's a few teams that would make sense for him. I mean, I don't know how far in a realm go. Yeah, I'm not looking for aggregation. I don't know how far away to go into the realm of speculation. Okay, my point is there's a couple places he could go.

Well, my point is this, this is real quick. He doesn't have to get the, he doesn't have to get, if he's, let's just say for the sake of the discussion, he's leaving 14 million on the table and he wants to be whole. because, for example, DeAndre Aden didn't quite get whole. He was a couple of millions short of being whole, but he went from being a possible third stringer in Portland to starter in L.A. If Beal's looking to be whole, he just needs to make $14 million over two years. He doesn't have to make it all back this year.

So just, just to be there. Yeah, but he's going to get bought out very likely. They're haggling about money. You know, I mean, I remember when I went, I was around the Sons for a little bit to write the story on the not-so-pleasant state of the sons. And, you know, this was when Beale had heard his name and trade rumors for months, despite the fact he had no trade clause. And I talked to him about it. He was honest about it. And by the way, he'd also been in his eyes demoted to a six-man role for a while there.

And, you know, he said he felt disrespected. But, you know, he didn't, he mentioned like, hey, there wasn't anything that made sense before the trade deadline. He didn't want to, just like KD. He didn't want to uproot his family or, you know, his personal life. In Beal's case, his family, young kids' wife, in the middle of season. But he pointed out, like, you know, summer, there's a lot more options on the table. There's a lot more possibilities. I don't think Bradley Beale is in any way, shape, or form opposed to getting his walking papers from Phoenix.

I think he just wants as much of the money as possible to go along with them. Yeah. So there might be some more. By the time we do our next podcast, there might be some more there. But I will just say, like, if they do this buyout, it will save the sons somewhere in the neighborhood. They haven't completed their roster yet. They could add more to it. But I believe Bontems, it will save the sons.

It will get them out of the tax or be very close to. to getting them out of the tax, which will save them $160 million this year alone. And it's the repeater tax thing. Also, is this our first indication that microwave mat isn't just about right now, right now, right now, maximize your chance of winning championship every single year? Is this? Well, it's, I would say, I would say that there are a lot of parallels to a team I covered back in the mid-20s, the Burkine. on Nets. And you can, you can lay all the parallels out, and it's eerily similar, the situation

with the two teams. You've got two owners that were very brash that came in, talking tough about how they were going to spend a bunch of money and immediately build a championship team. You got Mekale Proker off with the Nets back then. Obviously, you got Matt Isbion now. You have teams that wind up having to scruttled stars. They ended up buying out and waving a stretch. You had Darren Williams back then. You have Bradley Biel now. You have two franchises that traded all their draft picks, went all in to try to to win a title. Kevin Garda and Paul Pierce traded back then. They obviously the Kevin Durant trade and then the Bradley Biel trade subsequently now for the

sons. They both only won one playoff series with those teams before they fell apart. And you also had those owners who traded all their picks and spent all this money and declared they were going to spend money until Kingdom come. The picks weren't going to matter because they were going to be competitive after they started losing games. I said, you know what? kind of sucks to lose games and also lose a mega ton of money. And so after that, you know what we're going to do? We're going to stop spending a megaton of money. And what is that going to do?

That's going to mean our team is going to stake. And what is that going to do? It's going to give other teams really good draft picks. That's why the Boston Celtics for the last decade have had Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. That's why the teams coming up with the Sun's draft picks, the Memphis Grizzlies next year, the Houston Rockets after that, the Washington Wizards after that, they're sitting here rubbing their hands together. They're going, all right, this was the bet that we made.

We made it bet that this run of spending was not going to last. Look, we've been saying for a while, and as you just pointed out, McMahon, we've been waiting for the sons and from Matt Ishbya to look in the mirror and say, you know what, we got to stop digging. We got to start trying to turn this thing around. And the Kevin Durant trade was an admission of that. We all said at the time, there was not a big market for Kevin Durant. They got as much as they could, which wasn't much.

This is another admission of that, the Bradley Biel trade, which at the time it was seen as, oh, man, they didn't give up that much for him. Just a few swaps, no big deal. Just take out a guy with a no trade clause. He's going to be great. No big deal. It's going to be awesome. That didn't work out very well. This is a team that for two years has just been flying ahead, not looking at any of the ramifications, anything they had been doing.

And the bill is come and due on all of it. And if you look at this son's team right now, this roster isn't very good. they're probably the 13th best team in the West or so. I see little to no chance of them being a real factor in terms of trying to get in the playoffs. The Grizzlies who just made this trade with the Badgwick with Desmond Bain are sitting there, all but certainly getting the lottery pick. Which, by the way, they felt like that pick was, they felt that pick was the best asset they got in that trade. Yeah, for sure.

Like, that was a very targeted thing that they said, hey, we're going to get a lottery pick next year. worth taking, like we talked about the other day. We're going to take a bit of a longer view, try to have a same level team now and see if we get a really high level return with that pick and the other picks on the out years and try to, you know, give ourselves a higher ceiling going forward. But, man, it's just, it's just a real reminder that, you know, for all these people who are like, oh, yeah, the suds are just going to spend, issue is going to spend, it's all going to be fine, everything's going to be great. Going balls to the wall like this, we've seen it over and over again in the history of the league. It tends to not work out very well. And maybe the suns are finally starting to figure that out. And it's probably going to be a pretty painful stretch here as they try to reorient this team.

And by the way, Phoenix, unlike Milwaukee, is a place where guys are going to want to go. So having, I mean, Milwaukee's not a free agency destination. Phoenix has been in the past. So for the rest of this decade, they've got $22 million of dead money on their books, like the bucks. That's going to be pretty painful down the road. If Phoenix can't get out of this salary cap jail that they're in, they're going to be hamstrung and trying to build this team around Devin Booker, who as Brian has said multiple times,

is about to get a $150 million extension himself. Yeah. So it's actually going to be slightly less than that because next year's numbers came in a little bit lower than projections. But it's going to still be over $70 million. Yeah, you can still make all his car payments. And I would just say, Brad Beale did average 17 points a game this last year.

He has shot over 50% in three consecutive years. He shot 39% on threes last year. He is going to be a significant free agent if this goes through. Somebody will pick him up. Yeah, Brad Beal on a max salary with the no trade clause is complete albatross. Brad Beal, you know, if you signed in a one, like in some of these like middle level exception territory can be a huge addition to a good team. Now, I think in a lot of situations, he's probably going to be best utilized as a six-man. I think that's something he's going to have to,

you know, accept and embrace. But to your point, Brad Beale can still score. It's just 50-some-odd-million dollar salary on a team that had two guys who were better scores it was a terrible fit i'm also seeing a lot of stuff about how the subs are going to do addition by subtraction with no kevin daren and now no bradley bele with the vibes will be better all i'm going to say is they've replaced kevin daren't and bradley beale with jane green and dylan brooks i'm not going to bet on that leading to more than 36 wins the 36 wins they had last year just say that well and listen and they dumped DeAndre Aiton for a edition. Whoa, boy.

That's the kind of renovations they're doing on the Phoenix Suns right now. They dumped DeAndre Aiton for the old edition. I said that whoopee cushion, because there was a big whoopee question. Yeah. And, you know, say what you want about DeAndre Aden. These sons have not been better since he left. I think that's very fair to say. They have not won a playoff game since he left.

No, they have not. All right. With that, we're going to wrap this up. We've done four podcasts this week. We'll be more stuff to talk about next week. We've got a four podcasts. Bondtips has done the windy TV schedule this week. He's tired, man.

I'm glad you guys are finally starting to appreciate, you know, the amount of innings that I throw. My stuff isn't always that great. But I, you know, there's a lot of- Charlie Huff. There ain't no doubt about it. You are Charlie Huff. You're making references to 1980s movies and Charlie Huff. I don't think.

I'm old. There's some gray in that beer. That is true. Hoop Collective Live.com for information about the live show next week at the MGM Grand next Saturday. So I thank you to Rafa who's producing today. Thank you to Bonn-Tempson McMahon. Thank you for watching. Listen to the Hoop Collective.

Who knows what next week will bring. Happy Independence Day. I hope everybody has a great holiday weekend. Yeah, thanks to Roth especially. We don't get days off, but Jackson sure as hell does. I hope he's having a great time on his little vacay. Adios amigos.