Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - LeBron’s Future Uncertain? + Dangers Of Overspending In Free Agency

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss LeBron opting in with the Lakers including the fascinating statement that went with it. Then, the guys talk a few teams who spent big in Minnesota & Houston discussing the dangers of overspending with the extra restrictions in the modern NBA. Plus, what does the future hold for Deandre Ayton and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing after midnight on Sunday night. The beginning of the new league year coming up, start of NBA free agency, but it's mostly already done if you want my opinion.

Joining me from New York City is Timbonteps. Hello, everybody. Joining me from Dallas, Texas, before he's headed off to the Salt Lake Summer League at the end of the week is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. It will just be a brief appearance at the old Salt Lake City. City Summer League long enough to get my t-shirt and watch Ace Bailey's debut in a jazz uniform. They have good gear. You know, I've got a couple of those T-shirts, and I'm looking forward to adding to the collection.

I was glad to see Ace Bailey hop on a plane and land in Salt Lake City and avoid that thing from being a ridiculous storyline that did not need to happen. Yep, you realize when you get drafted, you have to go to that team pretty much. Okay, so eight times in LeBron James' career, was this about to be his 23rd season? Is that right? Eight different times he's had a player option and or early termination option. Back in the day, they had these things called ETOs. But basically, eight different times he's had a choice of opting into his contract or opting out of his contract and becoming a free agent. And all eight times, he has done so.

Then there was the ninth. They've done what? He can't do both. Well, he's opted out. Okay. Eight consecutive contracts. He's opted out. He has not played the contract out to its end.

He opted out of the contract. Just for any of the people, there were sticklers out there, sometimes he terminated the contract. It wasn't an opt-out. But whatever you want to call it, eight times up, eight times down, he opted out of his contract. On the ninth, he rested.

Oh. And on Sunday, he opted into his 50s. $53 million player option, which in and of itself was not a surprise. There were various reasons why he would opt into that contract. 53 million is one. Secondly, he has a no trade clause. And if you opt out of your contract and you give that up, you know, if I were the Lakers, I wouldn't necessarily give it back to him.

So LeBron opting into his contract, although it's the first time he's ever done that. newsworthy for sure, but not something that needed to lead our podcast. Oh, then what happened? The reason it leads our podcast is because of the statement that Rich Paul gave to Shams Trania when the opt-in took place. And by the way, I just want to say something. We are doing this at about 12.30 a.m. Eastern time, about 9.30 p.m. Pacific time. And even though LeBron has filed the paperwork and opted into his contract and all of the teams have been advised that he has done so, the Lakers have still not announced it.

Oh. So I just want to say that. The quote that Rich gave to Shams, LeBron wants to compete for a championship. We're going to do little notes, little annotated notes. We're fine, right? Everything's good, right? No, yeah. No, like third seed in the West last year. Great. He knows the Lakers are building for the future.

Yeah. Okay, we all know that. Do we actually, do we actually know that? Well, I mean, the Lakers tried. For a 26-year-old generational talent, so it makes sense that the future with Luca would be the priority. Yeah, okay. Sure. I just meant they tried to trade all their draft picks in February to get a center and before they change the rhyme. and I'm not sure they're going to be signing 22-year-olds and for agency this year.

All right. Well, there's more sentences to we can analyze coming up. Okay. LeBron understands that, but he values a realistic chance of winning it all. Hmm. Okay. There is the word but in there. Yeah.

The tough butt. It's a tough butt. You could have opted out. This will be the first time I say that. Okay. We'll keep track of that. Okay. So now we're starting to get into a little bit of a, we're scratching our chin a little bit.

Okay. Yeah, if that, if it was an and not a butt, it'd still have been all right. But I agree. It's a big butt. It's a big butt. I don't think the Lakers like big butts. We are very appreciative of the partnership that we've had for eight years with Jeannie Buss and Rob Polika and consider the Lakers as a crucial part of his career. It's been seven years, by the way.

Okay. Good note. I don't, that sounds kind of, it's not really past tense, but like, kind of past tense, like, quasi past tense. You know, it's gone from scratching your chin to raise your eyebrows and kind of. You're very effective at raising your eyebrows. It's one of your qualities. I have many. You know, because you've been doing first take.

you know, in first take, they, you know, they put your face up on that screen. Well, and I've been told by old coach Jim Latalka, he's been coached me up on that TV stuff, told me to get loud. Told me to get loud. Yes, you did. My eardrums are still ringing. You guys don't like when I get loud. And I also told me, active listening is what it's professional term. We're in the middle of annotating this Rich Paul statement, so I can't break off into this.

But your volume is, we may need to have another coaching. All right. We'll keep going here. We understand the difficulty in winning now while preparing for the future. Oh, okay. I'll again refer to the fact that the Lakers have not really acted like a team that's preparing to win in the future. I know they traded for Luca, but it's not really what they've been doing. We do want to evaluate what's best for LeBron at this stage and his life.

and career. Didn't they just do that by opting into his contract? Okay. The decision to opt in or opt out? No, they evaluated what's best. No, they evaluated what's best for him financially with that decision. But they're saying, hold on, let's just kind of assess the situation further before we decide where he's actually to play next season. So now we've said a lot of, we're not done yet, but now we've said a lot of words.

Mm-hmm. And I talk to Rich tonight. and he pretty much stuck to the script, and he's... So far, we have a lot of words that signify nothing. Well, we've got a lot of words that don't say we're excited about next season. Hold on. How's this thing end? Lay in the plane.

LeBron wants to make every season he has left count. And the Lakers understand that. And are supportive and want what's best for him. Oh, I'd like to hear that from Jeannie Buzz, Rob Blink. the rich fellow who just plunked down a whole bunch of his and other people's billions of dollars to buy the franchise? Well, as I said, it is now moving on towards late, late, late at night. And I have no statement from the Lakers. Okay.

Can we just like, let's just lay out the possibilities here. Okay. possibility one. He plays for the team that he just opted into a $52.6 million salary for next season. Stays in LA, plays for the Lakers. That one's plain and simple. But this statement gets his thinking, what are the other possibilities? Option two, LeBron, who has a no trade clause, requests a trade, but then that one's a real head scratcher because he just opted into a 50, $62.6 million salary. So it's going to be really hard to trade him in a deal that would be acceptable to the Lakers,

acceptable to whatever team he deems to be his preferred destination, and then acceptable to LeBron, because like the whole point of him requesting trade would be to go somewhere to contend for a championship. and if you're putting together about $53 million worth of salary, I would think you're probably going to be putting a pretty major dent in your rotation, right? Option three, and this one, like, there's never been a $53 million buyout of a guy who could still play at an all-in-bate level that would allow him to choose his team. If LeBron wanted to be a free agent, he had the option to be a free agent today.

He did not elect to do that. Also, I can tell you, while I would never say never in the NBA, I think it is highly unlikely that LeBron would be traded. Yes. For the reasons that you just said. So the thing that you're saying here is, well, what is LeBron looking for in terms of building for now versus building for the future? And the way Shams put it was closely monitoring the Lakers moves.

But also why, like, okay, the Lakers are going to handle their business and do the best they can to try to build a team and contend now and long term. We'll see how that works out. But like if LeBron's not happy with the moves, I mean, if you're the Lakers, isn't your response like, LeBron, with all due respect, we're going to. We're really looking forward to you playing for $52.6 million this season and being a part of this year's team. And then next summer, you've got whatever options you want. The Lakers should just say one thing.

They should say, we're thrilled to Brown James is opt-in due to his contract. We look forward to seeing him on the court with Luca Donchard's playing for coach JJ Redick in September, the end. There's nothing else to be said. That would be a very effective press release. I don't have. I'm not making a huge deal about this press release thing. Oh, I am. Well, I know you are, but not every team announces every opt-in.

Oh. I mean, this ain't every-oh. But they do when it's LeBron James, sir. Yeah, this is like, don't- Also. Yeah, this is not like they just picked up the player option on, you know, some 11th man. This is the all-time leading score. Come on. So, okay.

All right. So I have been told also by Rich. that he made it very well known to Luca and his representation, as well as the Lakers and his representation, that these statements were coming, that this was done on a fully professional level and that there is nothing meant to surprise anybody. Speaking of surprising, however,

when this statement came out, I began to call teams. and I don't want to get into the who and what and who I talk to, but let's just say I identified the handful of teams that I could see LeBron trying to be traded to. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I know one. And I'm not going to talk about which teams I talked to, but I did not find a team that was prepared for this. in other words, you know, like all of them that I talked to.

I didn't talk to 29 teams. I talked to a handful of teams, and they were all caught flat-footed by this. And so I guess they could be acting. And let me just say, Mr. Bontemps, what's the theme of our podcast? Actions overwards. Thank you. So I would just say that I think a lot of people started thinking about the cavaliers. Because there's been this thing.

Well, I mean, the calves are a championship contender. That's always been where LeBron has, you know, if he ever left the Lakers, people were like, well, maybe it could be back to the calves. Wouldn't that be a hell of a way to put a bow on his career, especially if he could deliver a second championship, the franchise's second championship? What a swan song that would be. The calves are in the second apron. And Saturday, they signed Sam Merrill.

I don't think he's actually signed the contract yet, but they've agreed with Sam Merrill. on a $40 million contract extension. They also traded for Lonzo Ball, but any trade would be next to impossible as a second apron team. Again, if you have a whiteboard in Bobby Marks and the trade machine, you can demonstrate how it's done, but it's not feasible for the Cavs to rip their industry. That's right.

That's the right word for it. It's theoretically possible, but not actually feasible. But I think the important thing is the Cavs were making trades and signing their players to contract extensions on Saturday. They were not preparing to try to trade for LeBron on Sunday. Okay. And I've also talked to agents of players. And again, I'm not looking for aggregation here.

But there's a few players in the league that you could trade LeBron for in a one-for-one scenario. And I have talked to some of those agents. And they, in some cases, talked to the teams of their players' teams. And they, I found nothing in. indicating there was anything afoot here in terms of a transaction, in terms of a trade. So I don't feel, as we sit here right now, that that is what is coming. I think, honestly, the trade is the least likely of those three scenarios just because it is like, it is so difficult to pull off.

And even if you can, like, listen, Dallas has come up in speculation or whatever you want to call it. Like the Mavericks stayed under the second apron. Kyrie new contract allowed them to do that, allowed them to preserve that mid-level, but they're under the second apron. But just to get to the numbers, you're talking like a Gafford, Clay, you know, PJ Plus type of package or like throw in some other names,

you know, take one of those guys out, throw in like a, you know, a nodgy or Max Christie or whatever. It's like what you would have left. Number one, it's a ton to give up for what might be just a retirement tour as productive, you know, might be the world's most productive retirement tour, but still might be as retirement tour. And then again, if you're a LeBron, you're looking at it's saying, well, yeah, I'd love to come there and compete for a championship, but damn, like, that's like half the rotation that'd be coming back. And so that just doesn't make sense for anyone.

LeBron is very, very likely not getting traded. Right. On Sunday, the Lakers had Dorian Finney Smith opt out of his contract. He is a free agent that they now have to deal with. With that move, they now have $14 million mid-level exception they could use on a free agent. Also, there's possibility they could resign Dorian Finney Smith. And if they do that, they almost certainly would then be a taxpayer and then would only have 5.7 million dollar taxpayer mid-level to use. I assume that they are going to emerge in the next

48 to 72 hours with a center. Whether or not that center is going to elevate them in the championship odds is another conversation. Also, whether or not that center will be a long-term fit with Luca, who obviously thrives best with a really springy lob threat, remains to be determined. Yes. What I'm saying is, is I don't, Bon Temps, I don't see a signing in the next 72 hours, whether it's with the $5 million plus Dorian Finney Smith, or whether it's the $14 million of a higher level free agent that is going to change the value values or realistic chance of winning it all statement.

No, no, I would agree. I don't mean, they entered the offseason far behind the thunder and decent ways behind the second tier contenders in the West. And there's not a realistic set of moves that can get them there. And that was the case before LeBron did all this and Richball did all this. And it's the case now. I mean, if you want to put on your little purple and gold, Lakers, girls, uniform and waved some pom-poms, you can say getting a solid starting center and having

Luca return with his revenge bod and be the best version of himself, would at least vault them into, you know, they've got a punter's chance candidates in the Western Conference. I mean, they were a three-seat last year, but again, they were a three-seat. They got spanked in five games in the first round. but like Luka there were glimpses of MVP candidate Luca

but like he wasn't that guy for the Lakers after the trade coming off of an injury on a consistent basis so stay tuned stay tuned I guess

you have anything else you want to say on temps I think the Lakers need to do everything they can to prioritize the future with Luca Donchitz there. I think if they made some deal with LeBron where they took back future money and cut into next year's cap space, that would be a big mistake.

I think for the Lakers, LeBron James opting into his contract was the best case scenario for them. It gives them the best chance to be as competitive as they can be next season. Right now, next summer, the Lakers have, if Austin Reeves opts out of his contract, but we assume he will. They have one player, Jared Vanderbilt, under contract. They have a completely clean cap sheet. Well, they're hoping Luca is going to extend.

Well, I'm saying, or whether he extends or not, the money's the same. So you have the Luca spot and then Jared Vanderbilt and nothing else. So you have a blank canvas to say to one of the five best players on the planet, Luca Dodgich, what would you like to do with the roster? What would you like us to get? How would you like us to build around you? What would you like us to do? and that is why to me,

the only thing that should be said to LeBron James is, hey, LeBron, we love you, thank you for opting in. We'll see you in September. If LeBron James wanted to do something different, if you wanted to go play somewhere else, if you wanted to cause chaos, if you wanted to do anything,

the thing to do is to opt out of his contract. As multiple people in the league said to me today, if he'd opted out of his contract, all hell could have broken loose. And he opted to take a $50 million pay cut, but, yeah, if he had opted out of his contract, he would have had a lot of agency to do a lot of different things.

He has opted into his contract. So the fact he has a no trade clause means he can't just be traded. The fact he has a no trade clause also means it's very difficult if not impossible to trade him. So again, to your point, Brian, personally, it would probably save us all a lot of time if the Lakers would put out the thing about his opting in and say, we look forward to seeing LeBron in September. I don't think every team announces when players opt into their contracts. so we'll see if the Lakers ever saying anything publicly about it. I'm just saying it's not,

I'm only saying for people at home, it's not, it's different for LeBron to opt in that it is for the team to exercise an option. Do you have the press release last year when LeBron Rees signed? Yes, he signed a new contract. I can read the, I can go find the quote and read it. There was a rather glowing quote. I'm only public relations.

I am saying, but I'm saying, there's a little bit of public interest in this particular player. You guys are being obtuse. What I'm saying to people listening at home. is that because they haven't said anything, it's not necessarily out of the norm with the way teams tend to conduct business. Come on, come on, buddy.

Thanks for being very tuss. I appreciate that. Okay, well, it's not actually. But that's, it doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. First off, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. An overwhelming, first off, an overwhelming majority of teams announce when their players opt into their contracts.

Okay. Secondly, this is a top three, player in history. Sure. I'm not saying they shouldn't put out a release. Okay. I'm just saying. I think it's a dumb thing to get this hung up on. This entire thing is a dumb thing to get hung up on personally in my opinion. It's only the biggest story in the league. Yeah, that's, I don't mean, yes, I mean the fact that LeBron has opted in and then announced I'm not sure about my future is the thing that's dumb. Obviously, I understand why. Yeah, no, but yeah, the Lakers need to be very appreciative of him opting in.

welcoming back, but firm. Because a trade that LeBron would approve is absolutely going to be an awful deal for the Lakers. I mean, as difficult as it would be a pulloff, if LeBron approves it, it's a bad deal. Also, they need to win as much as possible to have Luke Godinches want to stick around and winning as much as possible means having LeBron James on the team. And I was going to say, and the idea of paying LeBron dozens of millions of dollars to go choose another team to play for is just like, No. No, we want you to play here with Luca. All right. I will say this.

If the Lakers were looking to truly alter their hand that they're holding, the way is to trade Austin Reeves. Yeah. Because Austin Reeves has some duplication as a ball handler, and he is their most valued player beyond LeBron and Luca, who will not be. But also about to be paid a lot more money next year. Right. Right.

He has some duplication. And also in terms of the challenges on the defensive end. Right. So I don't know. Like that's something that the Lakers could do to make a fundamental change to their roster. I'm not saying that they would, but that's something that, you know, that they could do in the next few days. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay.

Other business that happened. The Timberwolves spent a ton of money. I believe about $230 million, re-signing Julius Randall and Nasreed. Nasreed five years. Nasreed $125 million over five, Julius Randall 3 for 100, although I want to see,

I'd like to see the guarantees. I know that makes me a not-so-fun person. I want to see the guarantees. So that has left them with a little bit, of money under the second apron, but not enough in all likelihood to resign Nikiel Alexander Walker. They could make a trade where they could open up some more space, so I don't want to rule that out. But it looks like NAA is headed elsewhere. There's several teams that have interest in him, including the Detroit Pistons who will not be signing Malik Beasley,

who broke every Pistons record on file for three points shooting this last year, and is now under federal investigation for wagering on games. Let me just say that you never want to hear the phrase under federal investigation. The teams were advised of the situation involving Beasley, and so he will not be signed on almost certainly. More details will come out about that. It appears as if the investigation, and certainly not that much is known about it,

involves his only season with the Bucks two years ago, the 23-24 season, not this 24-25 season, but a lot is not known about that. We will leave that to be laid out. It's upsetting. And it's not the first time it's happened. And I'm afraid it won't be the last. But let's focus on the wolves McMahon.

They were headed in this direction for some time. It was pretty clear they were not going to be able to sign all three of their free agents. I think they were hopeful. But once they agreed to give Nazaree $25 million a year, that pretty much made it clear they've made up their mind. they will bring back the bulk of their conference finals team, but they will have a hole where Alexander Walker, in all likelihood, will live. And this has been kind of the anticipated scenario for a while now,

in part because Alexander Walker played himself into being a very valued player on the market, a guy who's probably going to get more than the full mid-level. And, you know, this is like when the tax, I mean, and the wolves, not exactly a traditional luxury taxpayer, new ownership and all that. But, you know, they're already pushing themselves as much financially as they ever have in franchise history. And they're going to have to make do with, you know, hopefully for them, the glimpses that we saw from Terrence, Shannon Jr. in the conference finals, when Chris Finch did decide to give him some legitimate minutes, is a sign of things to come for them. They really, I mean...

Well, they have Rob Dillingham, too, although he did not stand out. Yeah, and Dillingham, at some point, they probably, you know, Dillingham needs to be playing, you know, he needs to take the baton from Mike Connolly, and he needs to earn some of those minutes that are going to Connolly now. But Alexander Walker was a big-time, versatile, wing. A guy who a lot of times would be guarding

the first or second best wing score on the floor for the other team. Shannon Jr. is a big athletic wings, got some juice. You know, his minutes were, they also have Jalen Clark, who is a candidate there, but I think Shannon's definitely a higher

upside kind of guy. So they're just going to have to have, you know, at least one young guy come through for him there. But yeah, you know, it's a pretty significant blow. Tim Connolly has a long history of not doing much negotiating on contracts and frankly overpaying players. And we've seen it in Denver where Michael Porter Jr. and Jamal Murray both were on bigger deals than they probably needed to be for the past several years. And it really impacted what the Nuggets could do and have been able to do and currently can do, especially in Porter Jr.'s case.

and the same thing is happening in Minnesota. Like, Nazreid and Bobby Portis are fairly similar players. Bobby Portis signed a three-year deal for $44 million. Nasreed just signed a five-year $125 million contract. Nas Reid's a nice player. He's a backup big. Paying him that much money going forward is just really bad business in the new reality that the league is in.

And frankly, if you go back to when they negotiated on the Rudy-Gobert extension, yes, Rudy opted out of his deal. took a haircut on his option year. But they gave him three years and I believe $15 million. So they gave him two years and $70 million on top of what he was owed after the option year. And he was not going to get two years and $70 million in the out years. It just wasn't. And if those deals had been negotiated harder, then the wolves might be able to keep Nikiel Alexander Walker now. And that is a direct result and a direct consequence of, the new system where you can't just let negotiations go and say, oh, let's, you know, we'll take

care of these guys and it's great and we'll worry about the money later. Like, you can't, you can't let any dollar be just cavalierly thrown around, which by the way, if you look at the Houston Rockets, Felt Stone has done a phenomenal job on all of these deals. A parent Schengoon last year, got done for less than the max. Huge deal for them. Fred Van Bleet, opts out of this. It's a team option, so the brackets opted them out of it. But getting him to sign for $20 million less this year is going to give them a ton of financial flexibility going forward. And by the way, Javari Smith is several years younger and I think a better player than Nas Reid.

And he's on a smaller contract, albeit by a couple million dollars over the same amount of time, a much better deal, a much more sound deal, I think, going forward for a guy with a lot more upside. And look, I'm not, Nas Reid's a nice player. It's a great story. He's a fan favorite in Minnesota. I'm thrilled he got paid. But teams around the.

the league. We talked about over the last couple years with all these rookie extensions and different things. You can't, you have to negotiate hard on all these different deals. Look at the thunder. They have all, they just signed Jalen Williams and A.J. Mitchell today. They have all these contracts descending over multiple years. You see what happens with these extensions with Shaguel Alexander and Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren. I'm sure Sam Pressy is just going to hand them everything. They may all get full max extensions, but they're going to negotiate. Like, you have to negotiate all these deals. And I, I, I don't know that you negotiate. with Sheailders-Alexander coming up with MVP and finals MVP.

I suspect they're going to say, hey, Shay, are you willing to, you know, you're willing to help us out here? But I don't think that's still, that's still a negotiation, though. You're still trying to get a little bit back. I'm not saying they're going to offer them the mid-level, but like the Sam Presti and the Thunder negotiate everything. That's what you have to do. The rockets have been negotiating everything. They're in great financial position. You moved kind of quick through a lot of that stuff.

I just want to point out what happened with Fred. We'll talk about the rockets in a second. Let's just focus on the wolves right now. Because I want to talk about the Fred Van Vlee exactly what happened there. You moved through it pretty quick. But yes, the thing about Rudy Gobert is I think he took an $8 million pay cut, that he could have had $8 million more this year. And so when you're doing that, you're not negotiating from position of strength.

But yes. Yeah. Yeah. They couldn't negotiate a heck of a lot harder than they did. That's what I would say. And now they're in going into these out years like look, Anthony Edwards is not even in his prime yet. And they're pretty much locked into this team. And by the way, they weren't good enough to beat Oklahoma City this year.

And they just got worse because DeK. Alexander Walker is a good player. And now he's not on their team. Well, they also brought in three players in the draft last year that they're hoping will turn into. Sure. And they really need them to now. They have to. A couple of them. And part of that.

is, you know, Finch is going to have to play them. And he's going to have to play them, even if it's going to cost them some games in November and December and January. Just the way it is. Like the development of those young guys has to, I mean, it can't be the top priority, obviously, for a team that's gone to back-to-back conference finals, but it does need to be one of the priorities for them to have a chance

to get back to that level and, you know, beyond, although I think beyond is, I think if OEC's healthy, I think getting beyond is a pretty slim chance. Well, and Tim Connolly's also done a great job in both those places. Like obviously that Denver team went on to win a title. This Minnesota team has made into the conference finals past couple years in a row, and they had made it out of the first round of the playoffs once ever before the last two years.

Like, he's a great GM, but it is like they're not the only team that has done this kind of thing. It just so happens that we're talking about this not as Reed deal. And I just think is these new rules. come on the books. Like, we're going to see more situations like this where teams are going to sign deals now and then in a couple of years go, man, I wish we had some extra money. Yeah. What did Julius Cradle opt out?

If he opted out of $30 million and he signed. Basically the exact same deal that he's on. Yeah. So he essentially got an extra year plus a player option. Do they? He took a wee bit less. I think he. Do they get any credit for that negotiation?

I'm not. I mean, that, yes, they did. There was some negotiating there. They didn't give a big raise. But that also. was, I think, what we all basically expected to happen? Like, that contract was basically right in line with what we thought. I will say, McMahon, he stopped me cold with he comparing saying Bobby Portis and

Nas Reid are roughly the same player. I mean, the only thing I can come up with there is that Bobby Portis is four years older, but like if you look at the numbers, Portis is a better rebounder and the scoring numbers are often similar. I mean, I can't. Usually I can go in a great depth why Bond Imps is a buffoon, but that's a number. That's a tough way. I mean, I'll say they negotiated on the Julius Randall contract, but the Bobby, you know, Bobby Portis who signed today essentially for the mid-level. They didn't use their mid-level on them, but they signed him to a mid-level deal. He actually took a small pay cut in the first year because he had a player option that he opted out of. And Nasrude's a good player, to be clear. No, I know. I'm, I'm complimenting that. I hadn't thought about that. I'm, that's, you know, Nazreid's going to make 75 million over the next three years that Bobby Portis is going to make.

He's got two more years after that play. he got a player option on the deal. Well, look, I mean, I say get off my porch with these player options. When I was a kid, nobody got player options. When I said why I was a kid, I'm talking about when I first started covering the league. There was like a couple dozen in the whole NDA. Now there's a couple of dozen on each, right? There's a dozen on each team.

So they just hand them out like Gatorade. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay, the Rockets you mentioned. The Rockets did a big deal. Five years for Jabari Smith, Jr. No opt-outs. No, no options, whatever, fully guaranteed. Right, five for 122, just to be clear.

And you mentioned Fred Van Vleet. So Fred Van Vleet had a $43, $44 million team option. We have $44 million team option. Okay. He signed for $25 million. Now, he was never going to play for $44 million, obviously. And he got to play. Not after the KD deal, probably.

Right. At one point it was a consideration. Okay. He got a player option for next year. He can be a free agent again next year. I question, and I would have to ask Bobby Marks, I'm not sure there's been a player in NBA history who's taking a $20 million pay cut, opt out of a contract and taken a $20 million. But he didn't opt out of it. The team did. You're right. I'll rephrase that and I'll stand by what I said. I'm not sure a player has ever taken in one year. A $20 million pay cut. What? I think Dirk might have.

20 million in one year? I think he, because he went from like making a bunch to not make it very much as part of all their attempts to do things. I could be wrong about that. You keep you happening. Look, I mean, obviously, I think what I would say there is Fred Van Blyte and the Rockets have been very alliances he got there. I suspect Fred Van Vleet is going to be with the Rockets for a while. And they work together on that deal. And obviously the Rockets had some hand in the negotiation.

because it was a team option and they could turn them down and get to a deal that made sense. I think the fact that he has a player option. You're correct. Dirk went from $25 million to $5. That's what I thought. That was a weird thing where the 25 was like a balloon payment because. Right. But it was a deal.

Well, he dropped down. That was when they kept trying to do stuff in free agency every year and then not getting anything done. So short of the greatest player in franchise history in year 18 of 20, While he was dragging his leg up the court. It was... Well, look, they, I mean, they gave Fred a deal. I mean, when Fred signed that deal, it was essentially a two-year deal with the, and everybody sort of assumed at the time that he was going to not probably play on the third

year and they would figure something out on it, one way or the other. And, but again, what I would say is that is a sign of smart, long-term strategic planning by the Rockets, who for the last couple years have done a phenomenal job of that. The one contract they signed that I didn't like was the Jalen Green Deal, and they turned it into Kevin Durant. Well, and the Jalen Green Deal, which served its purpose as salary filler in a trade for a store. I will say that- The negotiation that was going to be interesting is the negotiation with Kevin Durant on his extension. He is not a rocket yet.

He will not be a rocket until July 6th. And he's eligible for $122 million over two years. I will be surprised if there's not an extension, and I will be surprised if it's for that full max. Yeah, I suspect they will negotiate that also. And again, they have done a great job of managing these salaries and getting all these guys signed to good contracts. And that is what you have to do going forward. Obviously, the rockets are going to get very expensive. At some point, they're probably going to lose one of these young players or somebody off their team because they'll get too expensive at some point in the future.

maybe you don't end up being Kevin Durant here or two. But by having all of these good deals and making smart negotiations throughout these things and saving a few bucks here and there, it probably saves you at least a player in the long term. And that can make a gigantic difference when you have all these teams competing in a pretty level financial environment now. Well, and now, honestly, I'm a little surprised that the Jabari Smith Jr. deal got done so quickly. If you remember, Shingoon and Jan Green went down close to the deadline, you know, before

last season. So I was a little bit surprised it got done so quickly. Again, I think the fact that they can look at them and say, hey, you are a starter here again, moving forward. Maybe that helped move things along. Now, you know, what happens with Tar Heeson? Is there a similar type of contract? What's that, you know, what's that look like?

I'd be very surprised if Tarisin's getting much more than that. No, I don't think it'll get more. If anything, I think he'd get a little bit less. I would assume he will. Do they get something done with him? And do they use the mid-level, which they can, I believe, you guys are nerdier than I am. So I believe if they don't use the mid-level, they can avoid the tax. I mean, they could probably avoid the tax either way.

They'd have to do some maneuvering, but they probably could, depending on how much of the mid-level they use. If they don't use the mid-level, they will avoid the tax. They've got their full mid-level available. Mark Stein and Jake Fisher linked them to Dorian Finney Smith, who we talked about with the Lakers. And I can certainly, you know, I can see that. That's a Dylan Brooks replacement, essentially. Yeah, and a guy who's more than comfortable coming off the bench, a guy who, you know,

tremendous locker room guy. Great locker room guy. Another good shooter, which they could use a shooting on that team. He does have a, he's coming off surgery. Yeah, had,

played on a bad ankle all last year, but a pure 3 and D guy, certainly better at guarding fours and even fives at this point than than ones and twos. Can guard most threes really well. And again, he shot out 40.

percent on threes last year, and this is a team that desperately needs shooting. And maybe there's a decision where the money's similar between the Lakers and Rockets, and he has a decision to make. You know, he's got relationships, obviously, in L.A. With Luca going back to the beginning of Lucas' career with JJ Reddick, you know, obviously he was there last year, you know. But by the way, if the money's similar, you're making a lot more money in Texas, too. Exactly.

There's that and, you know, when I'm, ran into Dodo when he was with Brooklyn. I asked him how he liked it up there. He looked to me. He said, man, you know I'm a country boy. This city ain't for me. So I think the appeal of getting back to Texas might be there. And I believe his wife and kids still live in Dallas full time. Certainly being close to home might be something that could be a factor. Just checking to see if the Lakers have put out a press release yet. And don't see it. There won't be one while we'll see. I'll let you know if it changes.

All right. Before we go, and there's going to be more podcasts and more news this week, we had an unexpected. I felt unexpected unless you guys. Nope. What? No, I'm agreeing with you. Oh. I guess we're going with Yang Hanson.

Yang, Yang Hassan. How am I saying it? I think Yang Hanson, I believe. Again, I thought I was. I believe that's how we believe that's Adam Silver announced it the other day. Sounds good enough for me. Well, we're not, I think they're going with Donovan Klingen as a starter. Well, I'm just saying with.

We should say what we're preferring to. DeAndre Aten took a buyout. He was owed $35 million in the last year of his max contract. If you remember, the Pacers, the, they couldn't come to it. The Sons really did not want to give him a max. And he couldn't do a contract extension. Then he signed an offer sheet with the Pacers, which the Sons. sons matched and then almost immediately looked to trade him, did trade him two years ago,

got stuck in his house. Well, first off, he got to his house and apparently slept on an air mattress for months. I'm not sure. That's still, I'd like the oral history of the DeAndre Aiton home buying experience. You've got a max contract, like pay for a mattress and then they'll deliver it. You just have to pay them a little bit. I'm sure that the Pacers, or, that the Blazers would have outfitted his entire apartment or home or whatever.

But he talked about how his back was bothering him because he was sleeping on an air mattress. And then he missed, did he miss a game or a shooter? Was it a game? It was a game. Yeah. I will say this. I have been in Portland over the years when they get ice and it does wreck the city. Having said that, he was unable to get to a game because he couldn't get out of his,

dry his house because he was iced in. But whatever, he's from the Bahamas. I'm not, you know, whatever. Listen, here's a thing. DeAndre Aiton, and you can look at his numbers and say, well, damn, you know, like the guy puts up double doubles, like he's efficient, blah, blah, blah. All you need to know is the sons couldn't wait to dump him. And then, you know, he just got paid max money to not play for the Blazers this shot. I mean, I don't know. Maybe he gave, I don't know exactly what he gave back on the, on the buyout. But typically these things, you're not giving back a whole lot. Yeah, I mean, it depends. Obviously, it depends, you know, if he's a minimum player or mid-level guy, we'll see what it lands at. But the one position that has a lot of depth in this year's for agent class is the center position. There are a whole bunch of decent options. I mean, Boston, Scott, Lou Cornett and Al Horford, who are both free, who I think are both going to have a lot of interest around the league. They do have interest. You got Brooke Lopez. We'll see where he's going to land. We'll see where Clint Capella is going to land. you know, and there's only so many places that actually need a center. So it will, I mean, look, if Brooke Lopez will be a high caliber backup somewhere,

potentially a West Coast team. Probably. But I mean, if you, you know, like one place that I think DeAndre could make some sense, ironically, is it Brooke Lopez leaves in Milwaukee. Yeah, that's interesting. A place where they could, you know, certainly could use a guy who could soak up a bunch of minutes. Soaking up is a good thing for you.

I mean, he puts up numbers. He's always put up numbers. I mean, his career averages are 16. Basically always play. He plays a lot too. Well, not last year. But his last couple, he's only, he, two years ago, he played the two years in Portland, he played 55 and 40 games.

Yeah. And listen, like, Aiton's not a guy. You necessarily want to be around a bunch of young players. I'm not saying, like, I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he doesn't have the reputation of being the most focused and hardest working guy in the league. So I think it's probably better to have him around. Great guy, though. Yeah.

Love DeAndre. It's also going to be a much different situation if you have him making a minimum or making the tax mid-level than making a 25% max deal, which is what he's been. That's absolutely true. Now, there's a lot of people that are saying, oh, he's represented by Bill Duffy. Bill Duffy has Luca Dantzich. This is, he's destined for the Lakers. I don't think Aiton is the kind of center that's a fit with Luca.

Like, Aiton wants to post up. You remember the whole Porzingis post-up thing with Luca was a total disaster. Again, Luca needs a big who either can be that dynamic pick and roll lob threat or can shoot the three space, the floor, and play five out. Aitin doesn't need either of those. Either Maxi, Kleba or Derek Lively. Yeah. Or either Brooke Lopez or Clint Capella.

Right. Also, when you get bought out, especially when you're in your 20s, what you're looking for is a rebound season so that you can set yourself up for your next contract. So you want to go someplace where you're going to have a pretty significant role. Which, you know, the Lakers don't have a starting center, but I'm just saying you want to go someplace where you're going to put up, you have a good season,

And put a good number. The obvious place to go from that standpoint is Charlotte. I don't think they have a center on the roster. Can I say that the- I want to say that the one of them, of all the things that have happened with the Sons in the last year and 18 months, they've made three totally separate trades with the Hornets involving centers. They've now traded two first and three seconds to get the Charlotte's,

The Charlotte Hornet's center rotation, which is an interesting team to. They sent them. They got Nick Richards and then they sent them Nurchich. That's right. That was, yeah. For three totally different transactions. Nerkich and Nick Richards were in the same trade. But it's two trades.

Were they? Yeah. I don't think so. I think it was separate trades. It was Cody Martin and Nick Richards for Nurchurchage. You mentioned Milwaukee is an interest in potential landing spot for Ait and should Lopez leave, which sounds pretty likely. I would just say, thank goodness,

they've got a bunch of snow plows up there in Wisconsin because it definitely gets cold. Let's see. The suns traded for Nick Richards on January. No, you're right. In your face. That's right. In your face, bond tips.

Oh, yeah. You're right. Great correction there. Well, in all honesty, I just have said that on a couple of different shows, and I just didn't want to be wrong. No, 100%. That's my mistake.

But the bottom line is they have traded two first and three seconds to get the Charlotte Hornet center rotation. The Charlotte Hornet's seen in the last couple of years is one, I think, combined 42 games. With awful defenses. It's, yes. So it, yes, the sons, sons keep on digging. The sons will be involved in the more. Williams at least is a theoretical rim protector.

You just haven't necessarily seen it in practice. A lot of, yes. Theory is doing a lot of work there. Practice are games. That's a good lot. I'll give you that. Yeah. That's a good line.

All right, well, we're going to have more stuff to talk about this week. I don't know what. Just cheap checking back. There might be a podcast every day. I don't know. We're going to at least have, I think we'll at least have a first couple. We'll have a podcast Monday night or Tuesday morning and then we'll see about after that. All right.

All right. Well, boys, I look forward to seeing you on Get Up and First Take in the next few days. And you have to be later in the week when the holidays hit. Yeah. Another one of your eyebrow raises. It's one of your finest features. All right. Thank you to Jackson.

Thank you to Bontamson McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening to The Hoot Collect. We'll talk to you later this week. Adios amigos.