Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Luka Returns To Dallas, Denver Fires Coach, Rockets’ Potential + Evan Mobley Interview

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to preview Luka’s return to Dallas and talk the Lakers’ battle for playoff seeding before reacting to the Denver Nuggets firing head coach Michael Malone and not extending GM Calvin Booth. Then the guys break down the playoff potential for the Houston Rockets including their potential superstar ready to break through. Finally, Cavs’ forward Evan Mobley joins the show to talk a historic season, his growth and his potential for Defensive Player of the Year.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon, joining me from New York City, where later on he's going to go see the Nix host of Celtics playoff preview.

I don't know. Timbontemps. Hello, everybody. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where the eyes of the NBA world are going to be on Wednesday night. The author of The Wonderboy, Luca Donchich in The Curse of Greatness. It's Timothy Band McMahon. Howdy, partners. Yeah, this is going to be quite a festive atmosphere.

the old American Airlines Center. Surreal circus is what I'm anticipating. Should be fun. By the way, Jackson is out here this week in L.A. And I took him to a spectacular dinner last night, five-course steak dinner, did it up because, you know,

I think he should be taken care of. Oh, you have to argue with a bill for a change. It's hard to argue with that. However, Jackson showed up for the pot today wearing what he called, quote, a shacking. So he might not be the producer after today. We'll see.

Oh, there it is. There's the shacking. What's going on? Well, actually, we went to a sports bar at 5 o'clock because we're both on East Coast time. We were hungry for dinner at 5. And by 615, it was ready to, ready for bed. All right.

So we've been looking forward. This has been circled for a long time, McMahon. The Luca return game. The Mavericks are, I guess, in better position than they could have been because Anthony Davis is back from injury. Derek lively is back from injury. when they played in L.A. Luca had a triple double,

but he was like 6 of 17, another than a few barks down towards the Mavericks bench in the first quarter it wasn't super emotional. I don't think the crowd's going to let him be anything but super emotional in this game. Yeah, in L.A., you saw, I thought it was going to be like a full-blown Luca Rath type of performance. And you saw a glimpse of that.

There was that timeout in the first quarter. out hot, he hit a three, you know, stared down the bench, snarled, Bart. I was like, oh, here we go. And that was kind of that. And, you know, Luke, after the game said, man, I'm just glad this is over. Like, the emotions were still fresh and raw, and he was kind of trying to suppress it. Because honestly, at the time, the emotion, the prevailing emotion for him was sadness. Yeah. I think he has found his joy again with the Lakers. Obviously, the Lakers, you know, played well, have positioned themselves to, you have to kind of look at them as at least a reasonable

threat in the Western Conference right now, especially with what we just saw them do to Oklahoma City Sunday afternoon when they came out, guns ablazing. But this is going to be a different deal. You know, I've seen Luca, we've all seen Luca thrive as the enemy in a road arena and just kind of use that. The, you know, the hate from fans, as you might say. Yeah, how many interactions over the years with courtside fans? Yeah, there's dozens, dozens. Yeah, and if there isn't that guy, he'll make something up. He'll use that, though, as fuel.

And like you think about some of the best performances of his career, elimination game in Minnesota last year, game seven and Phoenix. Like, we've seen him just thrive as the enemy. we've never seen him be showered with love and, you know, adulation. I don't know if we've ever seen a situation like this is going to be on Wednesday, potentially. I agree. We've seen so many return games, but this is completely unique. Well, and it's going to be, honestly, it's going to be, so I don't know how he's going to process those emotions in real time.

And for Mavericks fans, this is celebrating six and a half years of spectacular. brilliance, right? And this guy, like, we understand his flaws. Mavericks fans were either fiercely protective of them or very forgiving. And understandably so, given his accomplishments, five-time first-team all-in-a selection, you know all the rest. Celebrating six and a half years of brilliance and then mourning that it wasn't a hell of a lot longer than that, much, much more than that. So this is going to be like, I think, an emotionally drained experience. for the people in the stands and you know you're going to see thousands of Luca jerseys. There will be a bunch of Mavericks ones. There will be a bunch of Slovenian ones and there'll be a

bunch of Lakers ones. And I would say a sellout crowd, which has not been the norm since the trade, and everybody in the arena almost is going to be wanting to see Luca score 50, 60, 70 points. The people on the Mavericks bench on the Mavericks, you know, Mavericks uniforms will not be trying to see that. And like in LA, I assume the Maverick's going to throw a whole bunch of double teams out of and basically say, hey, if you can beat doubles all night, you can put up big numbers, but we're going to make you give the ball up if we can. Yeah. So when there was Laker games there in the past, how strong was the Lakers contingent?

You know, there's always that way on the road, but how big was it usually? Yeah, I would say, you know, there's always 20, 30 percent of the crowd was Lakers fans, which honestly is probably on the low end for them. I agree. And arenas around the league. Like there's a lot of Lakers games that feel almost like March Madness, neutral court type of games. And it's Lakers and it's Warriors, right?

And so, you know, you're definitely going to have your normal contingent of just hardcore Lakers fans. But those will be outnumbered by Luka fans. And then honestly, dude, there are a lot of long time, hardcore, diehard Mavericks fans that are questioning their loyalty to the franchise and that are kind of trying to figure out, are we more Mavericks fans now? Are we more Luca fans now? And loyalty is such a big part of obviously every fan base is experienced, but especially the Mavericks with Dirk and Luca being the guy who took the torch. from him and the statue outside the arena that sums up Dirk's legendary career and record-breaking 21-year run with 21 letters. Loyalty never fades away. That was kind of the motto of the franchise

until just before midnight, February 1st, you know, midnight central time in Dallas, when, you know, loyalty was not a big part of the equation in making this trade, to say the least. Also, this game doesn't have it does have some meaning so the lakers have not clinched home court yet in the first round no it's got a ton of meaning and the mavericks are still trying to secure number number nine and i mean that's a sad statement if you're a mavericks fan but like it if you want to do something in the play in you need to win the first game and you'd rather play it at home so um you know like they whatever they whatever their whatever their postseason aspirations are the mavericks need to win the game.

And so are the Lakers. I mean, the Lakers have to too. I mean, they got a huge win, as a man referenced, that game on Sunday, one of their best performances of the season, obviously, dominated in that game against the Thunder. They have the Thunder again Tuesday night. We're not going to talk about any games Tuesday night, other than to say that it certainly seems like a lot of the guys on the Lakers are not going to be playing in this game

on Tuesday night in order to be ready for this Dallas game on Wednesday. And I think the main reason the Lakers are doing that is they're currently two. two games up in the loss column on the next five teams behind them and sitting in third. So they actually more. Well, from the Lakers have, they're, all the teams are tied to 32 wins or losses. The Lakers have the greatest tiebreaker profile that I can ever remember in a race like this.

They literally own the tiebreaker individually on every one of those teams. So if they tied with any of them, they own it. It's crazy. And so therefore, because what you do is, if you have three or four teams tied, you goes to record amongst them,

they go, they own the tiebreaker on all those groups. Because even if the tiebreaker, even if, like I think like against Memphis, for example, they went two and two. But because they're the Pacific division leader, which divisions don't matter in anything, I'm not even sure the average NBA fan

could tell you the divisions. Maybe they could get the Pacific Division. I mean, name the teams. But because they're the Pacific Division leader, they actually have a better record in their division than the Thunder do in their division. Yeah, the Lakers are under 500 against the East. They're 34 and 14 against the West.

So all they really have to, the upshot of all this is what they have to do is win one of these two games. And so they obviously got one in Oklahoma City. They're probably not winning a second game in Oklahoma City just anyway, because it's usually in a baseball series he struggle to win both games. So it makes sense to save up and be ready for this Mavs game.

But like if they lose this Mavs game, then all of a sudden you've got Houston on Friday and their situation could get pretty dicey. So this is a really important game for that. Listen, nerding out on tiebreaker. It's not, I'm not hurting out on tiebreakers. The Lakers need to win the game. It's not just a Luca return. So it's going to be interesting to see how they handle it.

Because if it is because it's become an emotional game and they lose it, it has more ramifications than just, well, Luca didn't win his game back in Dallas. Like it could really have a big part in where they land in the playoffs in a week. That's all. It's just it's got extra meaning beyond that. I understand that. I understand the playoffs seating ramifications. It's still possible they could slip into play.

I get all that. Nobody is going to be thinking about that walking on to the floor. What they want to make sure happens is that Luca, this guy that they're wrapping their arms around, this guy is going to be the face of their franchise, you know, Wall of the Bron on for a little bit, and then they hope for years to come after that. This guy who was stabbed in the back by the Mavericks and then publicly shamed on his way out the door, they want to make sure that he doesn't walk out of the arena that night, a loser. They want to make sure that Luca can stick it to the Mavericks.

In doing so, great. It helps their playoff positioning. But they're not looking at the standing and say, well, I think you're both right. I know that's not fun. I'm not making that. I'm not making that face. I'm not making that face because of that.

Our colleague, John Sharani, just reported that Michael Ballone just got fired. So that's why I was making that face. Not at McVan's point. So that that's an interesting, that's an interesting sequence of events that I was not expecting this afternoon. I am stunned. I'm a lot more stunned by this, the tail of Jenkins getting fired.

Put it that way. Yeah. This is a championship coach who was fired a little more than a week before the playoffs start. That's interesting. I am stunned. It takes a lot to overshadow Lucas return to Dallas. This is, you know,

we're doing it. reacting to this in real time. By the time you hear this podcast, they'll be more known, obviously. I know that, you know, one thing that we've known for a long time is that Michael Malone has routinely, he's been,

it's been a give and take, back and forth, quarreling about playing young players versus playing veterans. Malone wants to play veterans. He always wants to acquire more veterans. He doesn't like that, the the nuggets lean into young players. He doesn't like the Calvin Booth, the general manager,

who by the way, his contract is expiring at the end of this season. This is not something that we've talked about much, but Calvin Booth, to my knowledge at this moment, and again, more information will become known, but it's my knowledge of this moment, Calvin Booth has not extended his contract. So Calvin Booth's future is in question. Yeah, so it's stunning. The Nuggets are in a very challenging moment here to salvage this season with a four-game losing streak with Jamal Murray in, you know, his health and some jeopardy with they've lost leverage in the standings. Right now, they're in a, they're de facto seventh coming into the games tonight. There's four games amongst the tied teams tonight.

Well, and Michael Malone just said the other day, I think on Sunday before their game with the paces, which they lost, that, you know, the hope is that they'll get Murray back for the playoffs with this hamstring injury, but that it wasn't them just being cautious with him and that he's really dealing with something. And that's obviously a big concern. Yeah, no, look, we talked a lot about the Taylor Jenkins move and why there was reasons to understand why that happened. I was just texting with people yesterday. I still, even after this losing streak, I still would have picked Denver second of all these teams in the West to win the title. And I was not really all that concerned about,

I mean, not concerned. I wasn't really that worried about them having a hiccup in the standings. I was worried about Jamal's health and whether he was going to be right. But I did not see this coming. But I will say this is, I think, a sign of things to come from the standpoint that if you look at where just a Western conference is, right? There are, we just talked about it before, there's eight teams that are all going to think they can win multiple rounds in the playoffs. They all can't win multiple rounds in the playoffs. They all can't host a round in the playoffs.

So there's going to be a lot of disappointed teams. and when there are disappointed teams, that goes for both conferences. You know, I'm going to be at Nick Celtics tonight. Nick's made a bunch of trades this summer. They certainly believe they can make a deeper run. They might have to play Boston in the second round. The first three games this season have been routes in Boston's favor. Like, we'll see what happens in the playoffs there.

Like, there are a lot of teams across the league that are going to be feeling disappointed over the next couple months, which is going to lead to changes down the road. whether it's players, coaches, whatever. I agree with you, but this is firing him before the disappointment. I just think it's got a chance to be a very chaotic couple of months from a transaction standpoint on a lot of fronts, that's all. But typically that chaos hits once teams are eliminated. And this is twice now that we've seen coaches.

And this is a coach who won a championship a couple of years to go fire before. This one is bizarre. Is he the third long? Again, we're all reacting this in real time. Is he the third longest tenured coach in the league behind Spolstra and Popovich? I think that might be right. Has to be. Has to be.

I'll double check it. I'll double check it. I'll double check a quick look at the math. But, I mean, he's been there for 10 years. There's nobody else. Popovich and Spolstrel. I am very, very curious to hear the explanation of why this was a decision that was made right now. Like right now?

Fourth longest. Oh, behind Kerr. Of course. Yeah. Oh, Steve Kerr. There's a little bit more news. just so you know, our colleague Choms Chironi who's reported that Calvin Booth has also been fired. Wow.

Less than a week for the playoffs, fire your coach and your GM when you have the best player on the planet and are pretty much, I would say, universally considered to be a team with a top five at max, top six chance to win a title this year. That is, uh, so I guess the answer is nobody won the power struggle, but this is like what you have the best player in the world and the playoffs start. in days. What are you doing right now? Okay, so as we talked about earlier,

that actually, the Calvin Booth being out isn't as... No. It doesn't hit me as much of a stunner because his contract was not extended. Well, it's a stutter that it's happening on April 8th.

Like, again, like... Yes, the timing is... The timing is bizarre. if Calvin Booth, if it had come out today that Calvin Booth had been let go. The timing would have been stunning, but it was one of those things where we knew below the surface. He hadn't signed a contract extension. The Nuggets have let executives go in the past where they haven't worked out contracts. It's happened three or four times.

It wouldn't have been like definitely would have led the podcast, would have led NBA today. But again, happening in real time here, what I suspect, is that ownership, which is Josh Cronkey and Stan Cronky, but Josh Cronky is the governor, the acting, the president. He may have been tired of the back and forth between them. They just said, you're both fired. It's still shocking that they would jeopardize what they could do this season. And again, Malone did lay into the players after they,

who do they lose to on Sunday? I forget now. They lost four in a row. but oh they lost to the Pacers he said after the game he lit into the team and he called them names and everything like that um but that isn't discernible from an average michael malone it's like that's like one out of every four days so you know like maybe he did say something maybe we'll learn that something happened but like it was hard to raise an alert because he's always doing that He's a hot tempered guy.

Always has been. But again, this is a truly strange one. I just, why does this not wait until they're eliminated? I don't understand that. And maybe we'll find out. Maybe there's reasoning that makes sense, but I'm having a hard time. It's hard to come up with the reasoning that makes sense to fire your coach and your GM six days before the end of the season when you are at a university.

considered at worst a fringe title contender. Well, I just go back to the greatest interview of the last decade that I've read from a general manager, which was Calvin Booth to the Ringer, Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer, before last season, which Calvin later claims should have been off the record, but had a bunch of amazing gems in it. Well, he then, he then at the trade deadline was openly talking about chopping named players, too. Well, he's, yes, he's, he's clearly loose when talking to the media, which is why he doesn't do it that much. But I just want to say that this was the first quote in the story.

And it was from October 16, 20, 23. So, you know, three months before, three months before, three months after they won the championship. And Calvin Booth said, if everything is optimized. we should win three or four titles. And I agreed, but it hasn't been optimized. They've lost veteran players. They've lost three veteran players since their title, which would be Bruce Brown, Jeff Green,

Cantavius, Caldwell Pope. It's not like those guys have gone elsewhere and dominated. Okay? It's not like had they spent, you know, tens of millions to retain them that like it was a guarantee, but they lost those three players. and the players that they have drafted have done okay and certainly Christian Brown has had a very good year.

By the way, Christian Brown was going to come on this podcast for Friday. I'm suspected that's going to be canceled. I don't know, Christian, you're still welcome. Everybody wants to come give their awards pitch to win horse. Yeah. Yeah. That was set up yesterday.

Was he coming on a campaign from Malone to get coach of the year? I assume for most improved, which he might get a vote from me for. But man, that's... Well, I'm just, the reason I'm saying that is that this was being lined up with me yesterday. So it wasn't like that there was a feel within the organization yesterday, that this was going to be coming. Yesterday being Monday in the time frame we're doing. I'm also going to say this. You know, I've known Michael Malone for 20 years.

I have him in my phone as Mike Malone because that's what I knew. He was, Mike, and now he's Michael. And I had a long conversation with him. earlier this season about the state of things. And it was off the record, I will say now, but he was talking about how it's been amazing to be the head coach of this team for so long and be able to have, he always calls him Nicola.

He never calls him Yokic. Everybody calls him Yokic or the joke. Yes, he always says Nicola every time. And he just said what an incredible privilege it's been to have Nicola, because not only has Nicola been wonderful for the Nuggets, but he's been wonderful for him, that he's enabled him to get multiple contract extensions,

that he's enabled him to get a ring, and that he's enabled him to stay and coach and live in Denver while his daughters got through high school. So I think his one daughter is, I think, finishing high school this year, and like how a wonderful gift it is that he'd have been able, because of Nicola, been able to make Denver their home. And the reason I say that story is because he recognized, he's the son of a former NBA head coach who coached in the league for 40 years,

the late great Brendan Malone. He knows that this is not reality, that coaches typically don't get six, seven, eight years in a place. So saving all that, he knew in a way he had already incredibly beat the odds. And so I suspect when he does speak about this, which who knows that long when that'll be, that it'll be an absolute appreciation for Nicole the Yokic.

But that's neither here nor there. What's more important is what the Nuggets going to do in the wake of this. And they have a game Wednesday night in Sacramento. And I don't know how that's going to, I don't know how that's going to go. And typically winning a title buys a head coach more than a couple more seasons on that particular bench. Like, I mean, it, again, the Taylor Jenkins thing, we all knew. he was getting fired at the end of the year. We all knew he'd been undercut. You knew there was friction between Malone and Booth. Somebody needs to explain why this made sense right now.

And honestly, like forget explaining it publicly. I would think somebody needs to explain this to Nicola Yolkich. Yeah, it's worth point now because we're, obviously we're doing this in real time, but Michael Malone is a big part of why Nicola Yolkich is the player he is. Like if you go back, 10 years it's easy to look at him now as a inner circle hall of famer right but back 10 years ago when he started playing they had use of nurkich who was a first round draft pick at the same position and halfway through yokitch's rookie year malone was like yeah we're starting this dude this dude's better and it was a pretty big deal at the time and you know obviously he's been vindicated for seeing that in yokitch over time and it's been obviously an incredible

partnership and you know it is going to be fascinating to your point big man to hear what the what the reasoning is for why this happened now i mean the only thing i can think of i probably shouldn't even speculate is you know if the front office decided the coach needed to be fired and ownership said okay then you can go to i i don't know what else it could be but But it's just really crazy to do this today. And David Adelman, son of the great Rick Adelman, is going to be the interim head coach. And, you know, Ryan Saunders is on the staff.

Obviously, he's been a head coach. We'll see how these guys can handle a playoff run. But the Memphis thing was one thing, as you said, for many reasons. This is very different. And I feel like we're, going to be feeling the ripple effects of this one for a while. The Nuggets positioning in the, if you look at their salaries, because of what they, so for next year, between Michael Porter Jr., Jamal Murray, and Nikola Yokic and Aaron Gordon, you're looking at about 150, 160 almost

million dollars between those four players. And an ownership that has paid the the tax the last few years, but is very cautious about it. It's no other way of saying it. And so the ability for them to improve the roster is challenged, which is why they are heavily reliant on the young players that they've drafted over the last three or four years come in and play major roles. And what basically has happened over the last three or four years, they've traded for extra picks in that stretch, in that stretch, is that Calvin Booth has drafted a bunch of wing players. So we drafted Christian Brown. That is. has been really good. He drafted Julian Strother. That's been up and down. He drafted

Perry, Peyton Watson. That's been up and down. He drafted Jalen Pickett. He was, I know, a point guard. That's been not impacted. I mean, there's been one hit of those guys. There's been really, really good. Their first drawn pick this year is a, yeah, their first drawn picked this year, Duran Holmes, Tours Achilles last summer. He's a power forward. He has been able to play. You know, I don't think they were counting on him to give major minutes. So, As a result, Malone has at times not wanted to play those guys. And he's wanted to play Russell Westbrook, for example. Or he's played his front guys more.

Zeke Nage is another guy who they drafted and they gave a contract extension that Malone didn't want to play. Right, but that was five years ago. But, well, but that was a point of contention between coaching the law. Just going behind the scenes here. I just had to pause to take a call from someone very close to Michael Malone. And he just made the point that there was a disrespectful move because Michael Malone won him a championship and was a winningest coach in franchise history. I mean, hell.

I mean, this guy didn't say it, but like Michael Malone might be on his way to a Hall of Fame coaching career. I mean, it's hard for NBA coaches to get in the Hall of Fame just because of how the Hall of Fame is set up. But, I mean, he's had an unbelievable run there. And I can't disagree at all. Like, it just, it's just very, it's very crazy that this happened today with this team in the situation that it's in and that he's not going to get a chance to coach this team through the playoffs when, like I said, I thought they were the second best team in the West and had a shot to get back to the finals and win again. Just stunning. Perhaps Michael Malone's feelings will be soothed by the statement released by the Nuggets from Josh Cronkey, the vice chairman of Cronky Sports Entertainment, it starts with, it is with no pleasure

that we announced that we have relieved Michael Malone of his head coach and duties effectively immediately. Later on, it says the decision was not made lightly, was evaluated very carefully. It also says, while the timing of this decision is unfortunate, mentions there's no amount of gratitude that we can properly convey to his contributions since he joined our franchise in 2015. And it is with our utmost respect that we would like to thank Coach Malone for the most successful decade of Nuggets history, setting the all-time wins record, and helping deliver Denver our first championship. So it was with the utmost respect, just to clarify. Well, there's no good way to fire a coach. I mean, there's nothing you can say in a statement that's going to make any further.

No, but it's more about the. Yeah, not to fire a championship coach. There's no good way to fire a coach. It doesn't exist. Well, how about this, how about this headline? No with this headline. Devere Nuggets relieved head coach Michael Malone of Duties, semicolon, will not extend Calvin Booth.

That is an all-time headline on Nuggets.com. Yeah, so that's one of those things where, you know, we didn't fire and we just didn't renew his contract. Like, you know, whatever. But also he's, also he's, you're doing this on April 8th. I just, it's unbelievable. What are they starting to, where they start the GM search today?

Well, I think the MGM search, I think the G, the sort of, I think the GM search has kind of already unofficially been being considered. Like I said, it was not a secret in the league that Calvin was not going to be back. Look, that, that is, again, this, that falls into the E. Let me take that back. Let me take that back. If Denver had, like, gone on a run and gotten back to the finals, which I wouldn't have bet on, but they've got the best player or argue, I mean, I think he's the best player. Yeah.

You couldn't, you couldn't have fired. the GM after that. So you know what? I'm going to take, I'm going to walk back my own statement there. No, it wouldn't, it still doesn't make sense. It still doesn't make sense to do it now with the what I don't see anywhere in this statement is any sort of reasonable explanation for why the decision was made and especially why it was made now. The closest that it comes to it is says we do it only with the intention of giving our group the best chance competing for the 2025 NBA championship and blah, blah, blah. But like, it is someone. The necessary step to a house could be at the highest level right now.

Yeah. Well, and you know. That implies that they didn't think they could compete at the highest level with Michael Malone as their head coach, which. Well, and, you know, you're hearing the players put on, and you hear that every time the coach is fired. I don't know, man, this one, I don't get it. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

By the way, Bontemps, you don't even know who, you don't know who the coach of the Nuggets is. How about that? the nugget is and I the next time I see him I'll shake his hand and say hello to him and tell him he's done an unbelievable job and I'm pretty sure he'll say hello to him back yeah he did do it had a job he did do another look it's it's yeah I mean he's he's had it's yeah he's had an incredible incredible run there and I just say it's just it's really wow not for nothing and again aggregation can leap all over me here you got to realize we heard this like 20 minutes

ago. They got to be real careful here because they got a superstar in his prime. And I know that he has never done anything but show total focus on winning the next game. But you're messing with Yokic's bleep here. So you, and I, maybe we'll find out that Yokic was on board with this. If that's true, I would be stunned. I don't know. I would be stunned.

Yokch is not a guy who hangs out with ownership. He doesn't, the owners don't consult. He hangs out with the host, he hangs out with the ownership of his horses that he, that's right. Maintains. I'm just saying. That's what he's interested in.

They are bleeping with Yokic's bleep. With his prime, with his prime. And they better not screw this up because people always thought, well, I'm not going to get into that. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to say. What I'm going to say is this. Yeah.

You're talking about. an all-time great player. I don't feel like having a debate is he top 10, whatever. He's in that type of conversation. And when you have a guy like that, if he wins a championship at the end of the career, it's you only won one championship with him. And frankly, it's like the Mavericks with Dirk. They won a championship with him. And man, that parade was awesome, but they only won one. And Dirk had unflinching blind loyalty to the franchise. Maybe Joker is cut from that exact same cloth, but I don't think anybody in the league or the world

would blame Joker if he looks around this summer and thinks, hmm, do I want to spend the rest of my prime in Denver, considering the circumstances? They've got some big, big decisions that they have put themselves on the clock to make right now. Yeah, they got a higher a coach and they got to hire a GM. you got to do that at minimum. And then that GM better get to work on

you like, you know, tweaking the roster. I was just making a joke. I was just making a joke on the situation. They don't pay. They don't pay their executives. So they're, you know,

and they've done a great job in finding young and up and coming executives. I mean, they've, they have hired three or four executives in a row that have either one executive at the year or should have one executive of the year. year like dating back to my whole 20 plus years covering the NBA so but I'm just saying like they

don't pay so like they're not going to go out now is no longer there that's right it was by my missai us year was never there and mark workantine RIP he was executive in the year they didn't resign him Kiki van dewey who took them from being the worst team in the league to being a playoff team they didn't resign him anyway so but whoever gets the general manager job is going to have to deal with the fact that they're they're very light on assets that's a light on ability to change the roster, and they're going to have to deal with the fact that they got Yolkich in his prime. So anyway.

Which is a nice problem to have, but, you know, and maybe Joker's okay, we're just playing out the rest of his career in Denver and doing the best he can with the pieces around them. Again, we saw Dirk do that, but that is by far the exception to the norm. Okay, we did want to speak a little bit about the Houston Rockets. They've been overshadowed in the league

for a lot of the year, and especially in the second part of the league, and I don't want to give them short shrift here a little bit because they've just had an absolutely incredible couple of days. They're in just tremendous position of being the two-seat in the Western Conference, which they're almost certainly going to lock up. They've done it with great defense.

They've done it despite some injuries to key players throughout the process. It's not like they've had a season where they've been healthy and nobody else has. They've had some key players go down for stretches and they've been able to do it. E. May Udoka, we talked about him the other day as a coach of the year candidate. They're sort of the, that's Michael Maloney.

He's ready to go party. They're, they've been sort of the opposite of the nuggets, which is that as the season's gone along, the rockets have gotten stronger and solidified their position, whereas the nuggets who at one point were in great shape have lost their position. And man, definitely a team that deserves our attention. Well, and I've spent a decent amount of time in Houston lately and around the Rockets and talking to people in the organization, Patrick Fertita, who's the day-to-day ownership presence, Raffel Stone, their GM, IMAI Adoka.

They are all aligned. And they are aligned in a big picture sense of they feel like they are a superstar away from being a real deal title contender, and they are aligned in the hope that that superstar will be homegrown. And, you know, whether that's Apar and Shungoon, Amin Thompson, Jalen Green, they include Reed Shepard in that conversation, even though he's not necessarily a rotation player right now. Their hope is that that superstar will be homegrown. These playoffs are going to be great experience for that young core, and they're going to be a great evaluation. evaluation tool for the front office and for email Udoca, Udoca.

And then look, if they do decide that they need to take a big swing in the trade market and there's an opportunity, they'll be selective. But if there's an opportunity that presents itself, they have an incredible amount of assets because they've done, you know, since James Hardin forced to trade, they've done a great job of going through the rebuilding process and during a few years of pain and building back up from that to where now they've got a great young core and a ton of assets and they've used the assets they have to get more assets and better assets. But again, their hope is that this core can keep growing together and that they'll have a long runway as a real contender. Yeah, no question. I mean,

we talked the other day. I mean, Reed Shepard has been a bit player for them at best and was the third pick in the draft. And that's that's not been, that's, that's a commentary on how deep the Rockets roster is as much as anything else. I mean, he's done a, he's, they've done a great job. They've got a ton of talent. Like you said, EMA is instilled a defensive culture there. You know, they've had a great season. It's going to be, yeah, and these playoffs are going to be great because it's going to be a great opportunity to see what this young group can do and what they can, you know, what they look like in that playoff crucible because that, you learn a lot about your team and your players in those kind of situations and they can

sort of evaluate it and decide where they want to go from there. But there's a ton to be excited about and, you know, the future is very bright as we enter. I mean, I guess is there a phase four? Do we just stay in phase three? Where does this sit on the phase scale? Well, they're certainly an ascending team still. When I say superstar, I want to be very clear. I mean offensive engine, right? Because I think Amin Thompson is on his way to superstardom, but it might not be the traditional, like he might not be a 25 point per game score.

Like, you know, not a perfect comp, but Draymond Green is a guy who I would say has been a complimentary superstar throughout the course of his career, dominant defensive player, you know, an offensive connector. You know, can a Min Thompson be a guy who you put the ball in his hands and he's the guy generating offense? Maybe. I mean, he's young. He's six, seven.

He's extremely athletic. You know, the play he made in Boston to juke Jan Brown out of his shorts and hit a game winner. That was awfully impressive. The defensive play on Steph Curry the other day was unbelievable, too. There's no doubt. Yeah, he will be an elite defender for a year. He already is and he will be for years to come.

His offensive ceiling, I was asked an interesting question when I was down there in Houston. I was asked, what could Russell Westbrook do at his peak that Thompson doesn't have a chance to be able to grow into? And that's an interesting question. So Russell Westbrook is the greatest athlete I've maybe ever seen in the NBA. His explosion and his leaping ability in person, I've gasped at when he was in his prime.

Thompson is bigger. And he's that type of athlete. Yeah. I mean, he's in the Rust LeBron. He's in the Rust LeBron, whatever group of those guys. A man is right there with those guys. Yeah. So LeBron obviously physically is one of one, one of very few.

I mean, Kauai is up there too. But in terms of athletic explosion, quick twitch muscle fibers, I've never seen a guy like this. Yeah, but Thompson, a men Thompson and a sorrow for that matter, but speaking of the Rock, it's a man Thompson, that type of player. He does have ball skills? Look, does he have a jump shot? No, he doesn't.

But frankly, Russ never had a consistent jumper either. Hey, LeBron didn't have a jump shot for six or seven years. Right. And if he's going to be the ball and hand guy, you probably need to surround him with as much shooting as possible. I'll tell you, though, Reed Shepard, you know, you talk some people down. Houston, they'll say Reed Shepard probably has the highest offensive ceiling of anybody on that roster. The challenge with Reed Shepard is that he plays for IMA Yudoka. And the standard

that Ema Yudoka has for putting a guy out there defensively is higher than your average. So if it's why he doesn't bring me a Doca right now. Right. So the rockets are in the second seed in large part because E may has demanded such a high standard on the defensive end. If Reed Sheper was playing with another team. He might have gotten more time this year, but then he got hurt anymore. He might have to go to the year. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Okay, now joined by Evan Mobley, who's joining us from Cleveland.

Congratulations on a terrific season, Evan, before we go anywhere. Had a great year. I want to go back when I start with, I want to go back to last year. The last game of last year, you guys are playing against Boston in the playoffs. Donovan is injured. Jared Allen is injured. You guys are down 3-1, and you have in game 5. one of the best games of your career. I think you had 33 points, a bunch of rebounds and everything.

And you guys were outmaned. The Celtics were on their way to win the championship. You were missing two years guys. You had this incredibly great game. And it was like an incredible way to go into the offseason because it was like, you know, this is what Evan can do. Like in an elimination game,

he delivers like this. So let me just ask you this, because you've had a bunch of games like that this year. What were you feeling after that game as you went into the offseason? Yeah, I mean, that game definitely propelled me into the season I'm having this year. Definitely boosting my confidence knowing what I can do out there on big states like that. And it's all offseason.

It's really working on my game. I'm just trying to get better offensively and maintaining my defensive side as well. It's not all between there. I mean, you see the season that we're having this year. So, yeah, so the off season. So obviously the coach changed. I mean, first off, J.B. Bickerstaff really helped you. I mean, that's something that some players have three coaches in three years.

You had the same coach. What was your emotions when the coaching change happened? Because I know J.B. had really, you know, he really helped you succeed. Yeah, he was a great coach for the time being. The organization decided to go a separate way. And I think Kenny came in and did a great job. He talked with me initially when he first got hired and talked about how he's going to use me this year. stuff like that and help me cater my off-season workouts to that.

And when you came in, I mean, yeah, that's ready and have it's all ready on the same page to get to go where we're going right now. Yeah, I feel like from training camp on, you guys went down to Sarasota, which was an interesting choice. I'd never heard of an NBA team going to Sarasota. By the way, I came to training camp. I had never been to Sarasota before. It was my first visit.

It was a beautiful facility at IMG. But like from training camp onward, they were very clear. They were like, we are going to really try to get the most out of Evan this year. And obviously that was a plan. Is that what, you know, Kenny was talking to you about in the summer? And how did you process that? Yeah, you were talking to me about that all summer from the point of training camp. I mean, training camp was great.

I felt like everyone was competing at a high level. We're getting our sets in and figuring out how we're going to play with me and Jay. being two bigs in the game. And from there, I mean, we figured it out. And the sky was the limit. Yeah, let me ask you up that thing. Because you signed your big contract last summer. Congratulations, by the way.

I know it's been a while, but you should never forget. Appreciate it. You got a great contract. There was not a lot of people, me included, who weren't sure that you and Jarrett could work together and not have anything to do with either of you two. It's just, you know, the modern NBA, whatever, even though you'd had success,

And so you sign your big contract, and then a month or so later, Jared signs his big contract. And so now the calves are super heavily invested in both of you. Like, did you guys talk about, hey, like, we're going to make this worker like, you know, because when you guys both sign, like, it's pretty clear they want this to work with both of you. And it wasn't sure it was going to. Yeah, for sure. We definitely talk with the coaching staff, how we're going to make that happen. I think this year the biggest change was me, Biano,

to shoot the three ball. Adding that to my game, shooting it at a pretty high rate right now, really helped space the floor. So me and him are not necessarily just all in the paint and the defense can just collapse. So me expanding my game, I feel like helped both of us play on the court

at the same time a lot more. Not just that, though. They're putting the ball in your hands a lot more too. I mean, to say it's just your shooting, isn't, I mean, because have you always been a good passer? Because I feel like you were an underrated passer, and then this year they really wanted you to do that more. Yeah, I mean, they're putting the ball in my hand to play make, whether that's me going to score or me to draw the help and kicking it out to our shooters.

I mean, I just try to make the best play possible for our team. I feel like I'm one of the top playmakers on our team right now. I feel like John and DG have done a great job just empowering me and giving me the ball for me to make plays. I thought about this during the season. The first play of the year was the first offensive possession of the year. It was the first offensive possession of the year. They ran a play to give you the ball and let you go to work. I always thought that was like a symbol.

Like, this is the way we wanted to go. I don't know if Kenny said that to you, but I just remember from the first night, I was like, okay, this is going to be the way Evan's going to play this year. Yeah, I just try to set the tone my first game this year and let the league know that it's going to be a different year this year and just try to be as best of as possible. So, I mean, first play, yeah, they ran it to me

and I just try to do what I've been practicing all the summer. Now, you're the son of a coach. Your dad was your primary coach growing up, and he raised two NBA players. So he's got to be pretty proud of that. Do you still work a lot with your dad in the off season? Yeah, me and him are really close. Even during the season, he loves to give it too sense on what he sees and all of that. So we have a great relationship.

And just growing up with a dad that really knew the game, I feel like helped me a lot and help me just understand the game and be able to adjust to the NBA game pretty fast. How does that work the two cents? How do you receive those two cents? Is he like on the phone with you or what does he do? On the phone or whenever we have common with the person, I mean, you just throw in a little comment like, oh, you could shut that here, do this here,

and you know, just a little two cents here and there. But right now he's not my coach anymore, so he tried to slack off a little bit, but, you know, he has to throw in his little comments. So do you think you're a good defensive player because you were raised by a coach? I mean, where did that come from? Because, you know, so you're tall.

Okay, there's a lot of tall guys, but not all tall guys like to play defense. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I just had a natural knack for growing up most of my life. I think my biggest attribute is being this tall, having this longer a wingspan, 7-4 wingspan, and my agility being able to move like a guard. I mean, and in the race right now,

I don't see anyone really having that capability to do that. So I feel like me personally that not many people can make plays as well as I could make defensive players just up with the attributes that I had. Yeah, well, that's one of the things that, you know, the Cavs build in their defense. They like put you on an island all the time with small guys. Like what do you like it or not? You get that assignment. When you are preparing for a game, how do you prepare for an opponent, defensively especially?

Usually just watch film before the game. See their tendencies. That's the main thing. A lot of big guys have certain tendencies, a lot of guards have certain tendencies, figure out who I'm going to be matched upon most of the game. Sometimes we switch a lot, sometimes we don't. So figure out what the game plan is. And then from there, cater my game to the game.

game plan. I kind of feel like that's one of the things that maybe the general fan doesn't understand is how much thinking you have to do as the back line of a defense, especially when you have certain guys that you're going to switch against and certain guys that you're not. I feel like the average fan doesn't understand how complex NBA defense is. Yeah, it's very complex and how we run our defenses kind of catered for me and JA are too big to funnel a lot of the traffic to us. So we have to be there at all moments, our P's and Q's at all moments. And a lot of times I'm in the back line, like you said, and I got to read and see if he's going to come. If he doesn't come, I got to get back to my man. If he does come, I got to rotate over.

And it's a lot of just communication and talking to figure out what's best for the situation. You block a lot of shots, but you don't foul a lot. You're foul the block shot ratio is like one of the best in the league. What does that come from? Yeah, I think I'm top five in blocks right now and only foul like two times the game. Yeah, it's like you're like one and a half for like something, almost two blocks a game and like two fouls a game. So basically it's about the same amount of fouls to blocks. Plus obviously you're challenging shots where you're not getting a block, but it kind of works like a block. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like I always just had a knack for blocks and being in the right spot or the right time. whatever a defendant is in front of me, I just try to stay down, be sick in the leaf floor, and from there my length and size like I was talking about earlier, usually deters them. Even if I don't get the block, so it might not show up on the stat sheet as a block, but definitely deterring them even shooting it sometimes. I think for a guy who's an All-Star and a Max player, I feel like I don't know you that well, but I feel like you're a relatively humble guy. it's not really in your nature to say,

I'm defensive player of the year, whereas there's other guys out there going, I'm defensive player of the year. But like, obviously your body of work speaks for itself. It's kind of awkward to say vote for me, but that's kind of where we're at now. Like, you know, your team is 60-something wins

and you've been great. Like, is it a little bit strange to say, hey, please respect my game? Yeah, I mean, it definitely is. I like to let my job on the court really talk. I'm not really too much of a talk to a guy, but I mean, I think I definitely deserve this award, just based on what we've been talking about this all entire interview. And my defensive prowess, I feel like it's the top tier from what I put out of this whole season.

I'm going to keep doing that. And I really can't wait for the playoffs to up it even more. Does it bother you that you didn't win rookie of the year? You were like, you had such a brilliant rookie year, and then at the end, it's nothing against Scotty Barnes, obviously, but they like had a push at the end and made the playoffs, I think, and you guys didn't. And like, does it, well, first off, does it bother you that you didn't win? I mean, I thought you should have.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I definitely wanted to win that award. Try not to let it bother me too much, but definitely use it as motivation coming into the following years and just try to get better from it. And now we're on to new better things. Hopefully I can get this one. Yeah, because like you kind of got penalized because your team wasn't better. It wasn't like you. That's why I remember it.

Maybe I remember it is, you know, that he was like neck and neck. You were ahead most of the year and then the Raptors had a better season. So like he got the rule. And now you're the number one seed in theory. You should benefit from that. I don't know if that's going to work out the way. But I mean, if it was fair, that's the way it would work out, right? Yeah, that's, I'm on the opposite side of this time.

but I don't know we'll see how it works out but hopefully it works out in my favorite so look it'd be crazy not to mention this if you win defensive player of the year or you make all NBA which you have a strong case for both

it's like a $45 million bonus now look I am not going to sit here and say that I am accusing you of thinking about money all the time having said that $45 million I mean you're already guaranteed a beautiful number but it is a huge huge thing And, like, obviously, the defensive player of the year, I mean, that carries with you for the rest of your life and everything.

But, like, nobody would blame me if you said, hey, I think I'd like to get the $45 million. Like, I don't think anybody will blame you. Like, have you thought about that at all? Yeah, I mean, definitely been a thought through my head for sure. But, I mean, the main thing is just getting what you deserve. I mean, I feel like I've played out a great season so far on both ends on the NBA terms and on the defense play of the year terms. I feel like you should give what you deserve.

I respect it. All right. Before you go, help me out. Who do you think are like some of the guys in the league who are the toughest to guard? Like when you are preparing to, you're like, this, tonight is going to be a rough night. Like, who do you, like, look at is say, tonight, you know, as good as I'm a strong defender. I got to be ready to face this guy. Yeah, the toughest defender, though, are offensive players.

I would say it's probably guys that like to draw fouls. It's definitely hard to guard those type of guys when they're trying to foul bait and get you in certain situations. So you got to just be as disciplined as possible. And hopefully the rest don't call anything. but I would say any guard or any being that solidly to try to draw a lot of foul as part of, I would say like the artists to guard. A good defensive player doesn't like guys who try to get fouls. I think that's a great answer.

Evan, thank you so much for your time. Good luck on the awards voting. And more importantly, good luck on the postseason. We'll catch up with you later. All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks again from Evan Moby of Cleveland Cavaliers.

We're going to be hearing his name a lot in the upcoming weeks as the cast. to make a playoff Ron. He's not over. He saw his face there. He is not, or if you listen, trust me, his face showed it. Not over, not getting that rookie to year. So he doesn't show emotions very much, but he reacted when I brought that up. All right, we'll be right back here on the HOOC collective.

All right, welcome back to HOOC collective. It's been a memorable show from McMahon and Bontems. You know, there's a few podcasts that I watched that were a Laker podcast, Laker fan podcasts, where they were recording because it was after a game with the Knicks, they were recording right when they found out about the, what the trade happened. And it was hilarious because, you know, they thought Sham's got hacked and watching and listening to it,

like, and, you know, with the knowledge of what was happening, it was really cool to watch. I didn't have that feeling about this one. I didn't, I didn't like that.

I didn't like that just because, you know. There were several memeable faces that you made that I hope the internet latches on to. Apparently, I didn't, I wasn't watching you. I was watching the camera when you saw, but I'm going to have to go back and look and see.

Apparently, the producers, Rafah and Jackson said your face was interesting. I had a good face gone. I guess we'll learn. I guess we'll learn more about this in the coming hours. Thank you for watching, listening to The Hoop Collective. Thank you for putting up with us dealing with this in real time and understanding that it happened on Tuesday afternoon slash morning out here in L.A. Thank you to Jackson and Rafa.

Thank you to McMahon and Bontems. We'll talk to you later this week. Adios amigos. Oh, and thank you to Evan Mowley. Okay, now we do it again. Adios amigos, and that includes Michael Malone and Calvin Booth.