Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Luka VS. Mavs Reaction, Nightmare For 76ers & Suns, History In Detroit

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to talk Luka’s first matchup against the Mavs as a Laker, the 76ers’ season continuing to go downhill, why the future is a concern for the Suns, a historic turnaround for Detroit, a wild comeback for Minnesota over OKC and more!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. to the Hoop Collective podcast, we talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday night. Now, I'm in Los Angeles. I was just at the Laker Mavericks game, just came over here to do that. Joining us from New York City is Tim Bonteps.

Hello, everybody. And also, howdy partners, which I get to do because my God McMahon is so slow after the games that in light of a windy sleep update, which we're going to get because it's already 1237 on the East Coast and the game just ended. Rather than waiting for his tortoise like work to finish, we're recording right now, right after the game, fresh after the Lakers defeated the Dallas Mavericks in the most important game in the history of humankind. And here we are.

In all honesty, we wanted to wait after this game to see if it was incredibly compelling. And we were going to have, you know, hear from McMahon and everything like that. And it just was, it was a quality game in terms of it was close late and everything, and then Lakers got a good win. They've won nine out of 11.

But I just didn't think it was a compelling game. It had a chance to be compelling. It wasn't compelling enough for Brian to have his sleep cut into even further. I mean, I have to get up a 3.45 to be on 7 a-A. Like I said, cut into even further. Well, it's not like I'm like, oh, I need my eight hours. Anyway, forget about that. Okay.

So I will just say, before we talk about this game, the most amazing thing that happened two night, From my vantage point, okay, Bontumps, is that I was out on the court pregame and Nico Harrison, the Mavericks General Manager, was wearing, and you probably saw it if you watched the game at all. They showed him during the game, yes. He was wearing a bright blue Mavericks color suit, okay? By the way, real quick, because we talked about this the other day, full credit to Nico Harrison for showing up and full credit to Nico Harrison for wearing a Maverick's bright blue colored suit to this. He picked that suit out when they left on the road trip and he knew he was going to do it. And he came out before the game and sat right on the scorers table, which he has done repeatedly

in a number of occasions I have spoken to Nico Harrison pregame sitting where he would sit on the scorers table. That was not an unusual thing for him to do. He's out before games. He's consistently out before G Mavericks games. And so was Rob Polinka. I spoke to both of the them pregame and they spoke to each other that was on social media um frank vogel who's a coaching consultant um for the mavericks i did not know that yes wow attended the game and was out embrace i don't want to say they hugged but embraced rob polinka before the game that was very interesting rob panica of course fired him two years ago yeah so jacin kid was on frank vogel's staff when they won the title.

I did not know that Frank was doing that for JK. That's fascinating. He was there wearing his Maverick's gear. He lives in Los Angeles. And look, when you've raised a banner, when you've put a star on the center court, you may come walking through Crypto.com Arena with your head held high. Sure. So that was just, I was pregame interesting, right?

You know, Frank Vogels out there. That's all pretty good. Yeah. Rob was, you know, had a great chat. with him pregame. Rob was, you know, we talked about the, uh, the, the tribute that they were doing for Anthony Davis that they had a, uh, they were honoring him. The Mavericks, this is the Mavericks last scheduled visit. I'd love to see a playoff game. This is the Maverick's last scheduled visit this year. So even though A.D. wasn't playing. They wanted to honor him and, uh, AD was out there.

And, you know, he talked about what they had planned for that. And, um, you know, everybody was in good spirits. NICO was in good spirits. And, you know, NICO was very out there. Okay, here's what we got to. Now here comes the, I have to say, for me, the most compelling moment of the night. And for a February pregame, Bontemps, the most compelling February pregame moment I've ever seen, when Luca comes out to warm up an hour before the game, give or take, and Nico is sitting very plainly, you know, in a sea of blue and gold, in a bright blue suit, sitting very leisurely on the score. table when Luca comes out to warm up. They are 15 to 20 feet apart. Luca is shooting

threes from the wing at one point. Maybe a little, maybe 30 feet. Yeah. I am just sitting there watching it. I am sitting there watching it with Bill Duffy, who is Lucas' agent. Wow. Okay. And, you know, Bill has been around the NBA for 40 plus years. A long, long time. He's known Lucas since Luca was 14. And he is on Nico Harrison for a long time too. That's right. And he's just, oh, he's just sort of watching with a smirk on his face. He's like, you know, I've seen a lot of things in this league. And this is a special moment. Sure is.

So, you know, the arena is mostly empty. I mean, there's some fans in there. But like, that to me, I thought was the beginning of amazing drama. And it kind of just wasn't. Luca had a good first shift, scored 10 points in the first quarter, made his first three. and then really didn't make much offense, make much scoring-wise the rest of the game. Bon Temps, the Mavericks, and not like it's an unheard of game plan. The Mavericks didn't want Luca to have 40 tonight, so they really came out and double-teamed them a lot.

And to his credit, he passed the ball. I think he had 12 assists. Lakers had some, you know, LeBron had a really big fourth quarter, but. Yeah, Luca had his first triple double as a Laker official. He did. He did, but, you know, and he played a fine game. He just didn't play a special game. You know, when he had 10 points or 8 points,

whatever it is coming out of the gate, I think we were all hoping to see some smoke. But he ends up going 6 of 17. He has 15 rebounds, 12 assists, three steals. He got in a couple of passing lanes, two blocks. He had a very effective game. He did not have a special game. And I guess we'll have to save that for April.

But LeBron had a big fourth quarter, and Kyrie had an excellent game, almost carried him. Clay Thompson hit a bunch of threes in the second half. I assume there was no interaction pregame between Nico and Luca. No. This was making sure since you kind of stopped there. Sorry.

As far as I could tell, they never even looked at each other. Yeah, that's what I figured. But, you know, Luca just saved that for the game. Nico was there and Luca was there. And like, if either man had wanted to take it a step farther, they could have. Yeah. I remember I was at the game where Steve Ballmer, remember when the, when the, when the, when the Clippers like told Blake Griffin that they were going to they were going to retire his number and then like

and he so he signed a five year contract and then like six months later traded him five minutes later yes and Blake was was really upset by it and like the same moment happened with Steve Balmer in the same arena when he came back with the Pistons I was there that night and Steve Balmer like waited for Blake to finish his shooting and he tried to come over and talk to Blake and Blake literally ran away from him. So, you know, what I was waiting to see was would Nico try to walk over there? But here's the thing. There was so much media there, Bontemps, that it would not have been personal at all.

It would have just been for show. So, you know, Nico waited there. Luca did his thing. And when it was over, Nico went out one tunnel and Luca went out the other. And Nico sat in the bowl in a bright blue suit. You know, that they showed on TV. Mark Cuban showed up. Yep.

And there wasn't really drama after that. No, I mean, the game was an interesting game. I think, you know, we have talked about the Lakers defense. We talked about the other day. Let's see what it looks like going forward. I thought this game had a lot of concerning signs, I think, for the Lakers defense. If you're looking at it from a big picture standpoint, I'm waiting to get the official numbers from our stats and info people. We might have them before we're done.

We might not. I thought, I mean, you watched the game too. They gave up a thousand wide open threes to Dallas in this game. Now, the Mavericks have a bunch of guys that can't shoot. So it was Dante Xum and some of these other guys throwing up shots that weren't likely to go in. So you could, I guess, argue, well, maybe that was part of the game plan, was let some of these not great shooter shoot the ball. But they did get a lot of open shots. J.J. Redick on the broadcast with Alia Forrest going into the fourth quarter,

talked about the amount of offensive rebounds of Mavericks got as a problem. had 14 offensive rebounds. This is a team without Derek lively, Anthony Davis, and Daniel Gafford. They had their typical lineups out there being big inside. Be interested to see how they would match up with the Lakers. It is a really compelling stylistic matchup between these two teams now after the trade if they were to meet in a potential playoff series, which certainly would be something. But look, we talked about it the other day. When you have Luca and LeBron and Austin Reeves out there together for all the defensive issues you have. And we had Austin Reed's guarding Kyrie at times in this game, which is a sign of the defensive issues the

Lakers might have. Those three guys, there are very few teams that have three perimeter players or three defenders that can match up with those three guys. And having at least one, if not two of them on the court at all times, is generally going to create advantage situations for the Lakers offense over and over and over again. We saw that throughout this game. They got clean looks for their guys all over the place. AD and our Austin Rees and LeBron both had good games. Luke obviously was throwing the ball around the place, getting the triple double.

And, you know, the Lakers are going to be awfully good with these guys all out there. Just curious to see as this stretch goes along, they start to play some more whole teams, what the defense looks like against a better competition. But the bottom line, man, is they've won 15 out of 19, and they've got a shot at not only home court advantage, but maybe even getting up to second in the West, which is a remarkable thing for a team that we thought was probably going to be hovering somewhere around 6th, 7th, or so in the West.

And now not only has Luca, but has Luca back on the court and has a chance to make an even bigger run. Yeah, and they've got a big homestand here. They can make some done. And they've got two home games on this homestand with the clippers back to back. So that'll be important. What happened in this game tonight? If I'm a Mavs fan, I'm not actually stressed about it. I mean, you're upset that you lost and you're upset you don't have Luca.

obviously. What happened in this game, you know, JJ, obviously, when he told Ellie LaForce that he went into the huddle and told the players

that get on the boards because what ended up happening in this game was the Maverick's lack of a big man showed up massively down the stretch of this game. The Lakers, the Lakers made 11 baskets in the fourth quarter in the paint,

22 points in the paint in the fourth quarter. And had a few, two or three of their baskets in the closing minutes came after pretty rough offensive possessions with easy putback baskets at the rim. And LeBron, you know, Jackson Hayes is just feasting right now on lobs. He's, you know, Jackson Hayes is a fine player. He's not an elite offensive center.

If they get a guy who's actually super talented at throwing down lobs, like a guy like Derek lively, you can see how the Lakers are just going to have a lot. But one thing Jackson Hayes can do is jump out of the gym. Like he can catch the ball and dunk it, which is part of why I thought that Mark Williams-Straib is kind of weird. to begin with because you can manufacture center play with Luca Dodgich and LeBron James and even Austin Reeves.

And like that Jackson Hayes is going to feast in terms of just getting efficient baskets at the rim. What I think Jackson Hayes does is he goes in the dunker spot. He just sort of sits there and waits for the guy to draw. Like if you had like an elite pick and roll player who was also a guy who could pick and pop and also pick and roll and would be very hard to like defend, you know, then then you would might really have something

I don't want to talk about that. Yeah, what they need is somebody at the other end, which Jackson Hayes is not that. Dwight Powell played for the first time in six weeks tonight. And he was their center that they closed with. And he got eaten alive several times. Dwight Powell's a 13th or 14th guy that is having to play in this game and is just not good enough. Now, that's where if it's Daniel Gafford and Derek lively and Anthony Davis and you've got PJ Washington playing at the three. Like you said, you could see the formula for what the Mavericks want to be.

big and imposing and physical all over the place. And then Kyrie having the ball orchestrating things making place. Kyrie got wherever he wanted in this game was dominant with the ball. And they just didn't really have enough outside of him and Clay hitting some threes to score enough to win. But yeah, like that's the formula that Nico Harrison and the Mavs wanted to see. And I mean, the question's going to be, can they get these guys healthy in time for the playoffs? And what are they going to look like once they finally do if they're,

able to. But yeah, like, you know, I thought both teams showed some stuff. Lakers continue to get wins. And again, between now and March 20th, as they go through this stretch of really tough opponents, I'm going to be really honed in on this Lakers team. Because if they keep winning at the rate they are now, like, it really could be the two seed. And we could be talking about the Lakers really having a legitimate chance to make a run in the West, which I did not expect, just like I didn't expect Luca to be there either. Well, and, Also tonight, the Warriors won again. I think they are now seven and one.

I mean, they were playing the horns. They won by 30, 35 maybe even. It wasn't, but, you know, they're now seven and one since Jimmy Butler got there. One by 36, to be, to be clear. How much the cows went by? I just wanted to check. I didn't see the final score. They won by 40 against the Orlando Magic, who.

Did Darius Garland play in that game? I just wanted to check. I don't know what happened. I'm completely oblivious. I don't know. Darry Scarland did not play. Oh, wow. I was totally unaware of that.

I've never aware what's going on with the Cavs. Thank you for updating me. Never, never, never unaware. Hopefully, Darrys Carlin is playing on Friday in Boston. But if you're, we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about the Thunder later on, the Thunder Wolves game, which was fascinating from Monday night. If you're the warriors and you're the Lakers,

you're feeling okay about yourself as we hit, you're about to hit to March. More hoop collection. podcast after this. Anyway, not playing tonight, but feeling blue. Philadelphia 76 years. Bontems, I'd like to have a podcast where we didn't talk about them and we're getting close to being there.

We're not going to be talking about it much longer, my friend. But things are getting worse. Are they getting worse? They played the Bulls on Monday, got down by 50. All you need to know about that game against the Bulls who have made two tanking trades is. the Hornets and the why I keep to talk about the hornets

we never talk about the hornets I don't know the um the Sixers ended the game on like a 24 to four run they cut the lead down by 20 points in the fourth quarter and they still lost back 30 that's right that's right that's I danced around it that's correct and then afterwards

Paul George was like we haven't been competitive all year you know what we think we're going to make a run to the playoffs yeah I mean of course they haven't been competitive all year I mean that quote was whatever I mean look but you were at the game Yeah, I mean, if you want to call it a game, I mean, it was a massacre. And yeah, I mean, look, this Sixers season has been over for a while. I think we were on TV together on Friday when we talked about after the Celtic game coming out of the break. And I just said that the idea this Sixer team could make any kind of run is just dead on arrival.

Like there's no way they're going to be able to do that. And look, at some point, here soon, I mean, Joel and B. season is going to be over. I don't know when that's going to happen. I mean, you know, the Sixers season is already over. Joel got imaging done Monday. They've been, you know, discussions about what's going to happen with him going forward. He's not playing Wednesday. Those imaging is probably being sent around to a lot of doctors in the last 24 hours. I mean, look, it's, the, Joel has. How many MRIs do you think Joelle and Bede has had on his knees in his life? He's had a lot. He's had a lot on his whole body. But, you know, I just

I'm sorry, I just can't imagine what it's like to him to crawl into another MRI machine. Look, I saw him on, I was there after the game on Thursday when he talked to the media and said he has to, you know, quote unquote, fix the problem in his knee. And I've never seen him that down. And, you know, look, the thing, the Sixers season can be boiled down to one very simple thing. Over the last decade for all the stuff that's gone on in Philly and there's been a lot, right? The one consistent thing about the Sixers has been when Joel and Beed's been on the court, he's been incredible. And generally when he's been on the court, the Sixers have been dominant. And when he's been off the court, they've had problems.

Right. Even in the playoffs, like, you go back, he wasn't exactly the same player he was before he hurt his knee in January, right? You go back to that Nick series. He's got Bell's palsy, right? His face is messed up. The guy averaged 33, 10, 10, and 5 in the series. And they were plus. He couldn't close his eye at the, he couldn't close his eye.

Yeah. Put up 3310. And they were plus with him on the court in the series. Now, again, he wasn't perfect. He had some turnovers in game six. Like, I'm not trying to say he was incredible. But if that version even of Joelle and Bede from April in the playoffs had been playing through this season, we'd be in a different situation, right?

He has not looked like that player at all, really, this season. And this is the first time ever in his career that the Sixers have been. worse with him, have been not good with him on the court, and he has not been dominant. And for everything else that's gone on, from all the Paul George stuff to all the other injuries to everything else, that right there is the crux of everything that's gone on with the Sixers this season. And moving forward, the question for the Sixers and for Joel and Bede has to be, what is it that needs to be done to get Joelle and Bede back to being that kind of player again? And is that, what is that plan possible? What are the steps it takes to get them?

That is all it comes back to. And nothing else with the Sixers matters at all other than that. Yeah. And, you know, really, there's, there could be a lot of analysis on this Sixers season and there will be. I would just say their bet, which includes Paul George, was that Joelle would be healthy. Yes. And, you know, they extended him. Yes. They gave him a multiple year max contract extension in late September. Right. Like they clearly weren't thinking the guy was not going to be playing and looking like this. So that is really where the questions come back to is making that. This was all a big bet on Joelle and Bede and his health.

And that bet has failed and come up snake guys. And that the central question going forward is what is he going to look like in the seasons ahead? He's got four years and $240 plus million left on this contract. and I think it wasn't long ago when Joelle and Bede was averaging more minutes or points than minutes played, right? Which nobody had done in 60 years. So we're not that far away from that. But there's a long way to go to get back there. And, you know, that's where I go back to what Joelle said last week.

Got to fix the problem to get back to the player I was. Well, what's the fix? Because that's the only question that really matters anymore is what's the fix? What does it look like and how are he and the Sixers going to get there? And what does that mean for his future and their future? Well, we're waiting on what that's going to be. I don't think it's going to be good news. You know, I don't think it's, well, that we're going to have a positive.

He's out Wednesday and we'll see, you know, if and when he plays again this season for Philly. All right. So the Sun's played on Tuesday night. They lost in overtime, 151, 148 to the Grizzlies. It was kind of a crazy finish. John Morant hit a tough hanging leaner to force overtime, which is exactly what the sons didn't need. I mean, the Grizzlies really needed the win.

They lost four, six. They're coming home from a long road trip. Grayson Allen missed a free throw late that hurt them. The sons are now, look, in individual details of the game, whatever, the sons are now four games under 500. They're three games. They're three games out of the play in. And they had a game tonight, Bontems.

This is hard to do. Stats Williams, I got to ask them. They had five players score 20 points and lost. It's hard to do. That's. Now, it was a 151, 148 game. I understand. I understand.

But it's still hard to do. And again, I'll just say this about the Sons. The first time the Sons have had five 20 points scores in a game per ESPN research since November 10th of 1990, which I believe is before Charles Barkley was a son. That's how long ago it was. I bet they won that game, too, in 1990. I will look it up while we're talking. but I bet they did. So again, the same thing with the Sons.

The sum is less than the combination of the parts. Like you look at, you look at 173, 173, 143, by the way. Yeah, that's kind of what you'd expect. That 173 in 1990. Playing against Denver. Oh, you know what? That was the Paul Westhead, nonstop fast break. Okay.

You know, that's not even real basketball. So that just tells you. That tells you what we're talking about. Yeah. Okay. So I don't have a fix for them. I think what the sun should be doing is every single day, they should be convening in their front office and having brainstorming on what the Kevin Durant trade should be. Because that's what they're going to have to do.

That's their, that's their move here. And for as for as depressing and awful as the Sixers season has been. And it's been awful. And it's been depressing. I've been around it. I mean, you know, we joked, I joked on Sunday night that it was headed back to the infinite pit of sadness at the Wells Fargo Center on Monday. And it did not get happier during the 50-point loss to the Bulls. But this Sun's team, I think, has been an even bigger disappointment because they've been relatively healthy this year.

And they're still a complete mess. Like, it's incredible how bad this season has been. Like yeah, Kevin Durant's missed 14 games. Bradley Beale, I think, has missed 16 or 17 games. But Devin Bookers played 51 of the 58 games. Their guys have relatively been healthy. And they've been healthy throughout this entire run for the last month. And they're just getting beat over and over and over again.

Bontems, they made 21 of 37 threes tonight. That's 57%. In Memphis, they made 21. Again, okay, over time. All right. they made 21 of 37 3. It's hard to lose a game shooting 57% from 3. On the road.

Yeah. And lost. Yeah. It's amazing. And yeah, like, look, it's, you know, I mean, you said it. This summer, like, this team is broken. There's not a way for them to fix it. And, you know, like, you just, if you're looking at this and trying to game plan out where the suns are going to go from here, like, you have to look at Kevin Durant.

trades this summer. I talked about it a month ago. To me, you have to look at Devin Booker trades. Like, this team has no path. I'm not touching Devin Booker. Well, that, I mean, you can say that, but like, Devin Booker is right now in his prime and as good as he's probably ever going to be. That's not a criticism of him. He's like entering his prime years, right? And this team has no path to being a competitive team in anywhere in the near future. And so I think you have to have everything on the, everything on the table. Their path is you have to make a great Durant trade. But I, that's the thing. There isn't a great Durant trade. I don't think to make. That's the, that's the, that's the crux of the problem. I didn't think the, I think the Lakers are going to require Luca

Donchich. Well, yeah, sure. There could be another Black Swan event. Like, it's a fair, it's a fair, rejoinder. Right. But like, Kevin Durant, again, like, let's just have a quick, but very quick, brass tax conversation about Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is a fantastic basketball player, even at this point in his career, right? However, he's going to be 37 in September. And looking for an extension. And looking for an extension. And he misses 20 games or more basically every year. And he's probably not going to be healthier as time goes by. So if you're talking about looking at offering up a huge extension to that guy and having him be one of your two best players, like there's only so many fits where you can send him where it's going to make any sense to do it.

And how much are you actually getting back for a guy who's about to be 37 has injury issues? And there isn't a long-term window. And as we've talked about, there's not exactly a ton of options with massive draft capital that are out there trying to make moves. So like, yeah, maybe they'll replicate the trade they sent out for Duran and get some insane return for him. I'm not really sure where that's going to come from. And short of that, like, you look at this team going forward, there's really no young talent, there's no salary cap flexibility, there's no assets to speak of.

It's as bleak a situation as you could really find in the league, which is remarkable when you have Kevin Durant and Devin Booker, both healthy and performing at a pretty high level. Like that just sums up where Phoenix is at. Yeah. they're longing for wishing they had to Monty Kamara and that's I think yeah you know well and that's and look and look for the whenever the epitaph of this era of the sons is written like there's been a lot of stuff on the margins that they've messed up and the the draft pick trade with Utah was a mistake like that including to Monty Kamara in the DeAndra Aitin trade was a mistake like that making the eight and trade when they made it was a mistake like that. The Bradley Beal trade was a mistake like that, even though it wasn't necessarily on the margins. Like they got Devin Booker and they got Bradley Beal or they got Kevin Durant, but there's just been a lot of process mistakes throughout.

And they've all added up to a very rough situation. And, you know, we do these future power rankings every year. And I don't see any way that the Sons aren't 30th because I just, I just don't see how you get out of this hole anytime soon. It's brutal. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. We're earlier in the day here. How about that move? That was enjoyable.

That's the magic of television and audio. The magic of our producer Jackson. Okay. So on Monday night, the Detroit Pistons won their seventh consecutive game. They now have 32 wins this season. They had 31 combined the last two years. Oh, that is a stat. There isn't a comeback.

or most improved team award, but they would be unanimous if that was the case. I actually think that it might give Philly with where Philly is right now. If you looked at where the Pistons were 365 days ago, look at where they are now. You can make a pivot if things start going your way.

I mean, sure. Sure. The Sixers could be better next year, but that's underselling the turnaround for the Pistons pretty dramatically, given where they've been. I don't think it is underselling it because the Sixers are a complete rock bottom.

and the idea that they would be having been a really good spot a year from now is hard to see at the moment. And just like would have been, if I told you a year ago, it's a lot more unbelievable that the Pistons are 32 and 26 today than it would be that the sixers are 32 and 26 a year from now. This is not worth getting into an argument. All right. Detroit is Detroit, I think most importantly, is four games clear of Orlando for the sixth seat. they are in excellent position to get into the playoffs outright. Only two losses back a fourth, fellas. That's true. When you look at the other, you know, I don't want to sell them.

That's right. You are there. They are very, that is very much true. The way they're playing right now, why shouldn't they look at fourth? And Kate Cunningham, I was just talking earlier today to a coach who just coached against Kay within the last seven to ten days or so. And obviously, look, the guy is the number one overall pick a few years ago. He is not an unheralded player.

But the thing about Cade that the teams are noticing is just how strong he is and how he's learned to use his strength to his favor when he's just become an offensive force. I did watch some of the game the other night when they played the Hawks. He had a big game against the Hawks. And you know Dyson Daniels is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. And look, Daniels' game is deflections and steals. It's not necessarily strength. But Cade just at times was able to use his body to just bulldoze him.

And I don't know, Bon Temp's like, I had to look it up what the rules were for Cade's Supermax, because that's now on the table, him potentially make an all NBA the way he's been playing here and leading the Pistons. And it's been one of the stories of the year in the NBA. The Pistons, you know, rising to this level in the standings and their overall turnaround under J.B. Bickerstaff with Cade Cunningham, making their first all-star, I think, in six years. And potentially, I got to look back the last time they've had an all-MBA player. It might have been even a decade or more. Blake Griffin. Yeah, Blake Griffin in 2019. He made all-M-Ba that year? Yes, he did. God bless America. Yeah, he was great that season after that last full season when they got in the playoffs and lost. That's the last time they made the playoffs too. And yeah, look, Cade, especially with all the injuries that have happened.

I mean, Kate is sitting there. He's averaged in almost 26 a game, nine and a half assists. Combined that with the way the Pistons have played overall, I think he's got a great shot and make it all-N-Ba, which would trigger a 30% super max for him. And look, I mean, we've talked about J.B. Bickerstaff for our, Kenny Accent for Coach of the Year going back to the beginning of the season. Teddy's done an unbelievable job.

The Pistons finished in fourth in the east with home court advantage, J.B. Bickr's actually one coach of the year. Like it would be an unbelievable turnaround for this team. Because again, your point about the Sixers is fair. The Pistons last year were like two and 30 to start the season and were a complete disaster area of a franchise. And they are now 32 and 26 going to be a top 16 in the east barring injury. And lost Jade and Ivy for a big chunk of the season. I've lost Jade Nive for a bunch of year who was playing a lot better.

They're playing these young guys. it's been a really impressive turnaround. And Cade's been right in the middle of it. I mean, look, obviously he had the shin issue and missed a whole chunk of his second year. The franchise has been a mess a lot of the time. He's been in the league. We're still talking about a 6-7, 6-8 ball handler who can dribble pass and shoot it. Is big enough to guard just about anybody on the perimeter.

It's solid defensively. Like, he's the kind of malleable piece that you can put around anybody and have a lot of success. When you look at the Celtics, the Celtics are built around two big wings, right? I don't Cade runs the point for them, but he's a big wing. Like that, that's the ideal piece to build a team around, and he's playing great. The Pistons are playing great, and you said it. It's been one of the best stories of the whole season. It's been really, really fun. And look, the Pistons have been in a state of chaos for his entire career until this season. And this is his third coach in three years. It is interesting, probably the top two candidates for

coach of the year are J.B. Bickerstaff and the guy who replaced J.B. Bickerstaff, Kenny Atkinson in Cleveland. But this is also the first time that Cade Cunningham has been in an environment where he really had reasonable hope of succeeding. They've got all these young pieces around and they had no shooting. He was playing in a phone booth all the time before the season. They went out, they got Tobias Harris. You know, people didn't like the contract, whatever. He is a professional that you've got to guard in the three-point line. He's been a really solid addition for them. Tim Hardaway Jr., Malik Beasley, volume three-point shooters,

give him a little bit of room. Between Hardaway and Beasley, they put up 15-3s a game. Yeah, they're volume three-point shooters. And hit about 40% of them. Yeah. And Bond Timbs, I just was talking to somebody recently who mentioned. He was sitting right next to you in a gym in Las Vegas

a couple of summers ago. And he said, I was a year early, but when we were sitting here watching this guy, and I remember you talking about on the pod, watching Cade Cunningham with the select team at Team USA's camp look like a blossoming star. We are seeing that translate right now onto the NBA court. Yeah, he had missed almost all of his second year. And he's coming out. He was coming out. And it was like the first time anybody had seen him in months. and you were raving about in Bontemus.

And then he kind of, he was good last year, but he didn't start off great. Like we all thought he was going to explode. He was like sort of the in vogue thing to anybody who was in Vegas was like, oh, my gosh, here comes Cade Cunningham. And then it really kind of didn't happen. And he was okay. He had a good year, but it wasn't. You can't have a good year on a 14 win team. You're right.

Just impossible. You're right. But this is the first time, McMahon said it. This is the first time of Kate Cunningham's career. He's at a functioning team around it. from top to bottom. They have a solid ecosystem around them from a shooting standpoint,

so he has room to operate on the court. Last year, they were, Monty Williams was playing Killing Hayes next to him. There's all this weird stuff going on ice playing off the ball. Hey, McMahon, he squeezed the Killian Hayes.

Oh, you know, USWB, nobody likes to get to think along Killing Hayes more than USWB. Look, the team just makes a lot more sense now. And to me,

it's not a surprise that the team makes more sense in Katie Cunningham. has taken a real step forward. And like, I mean, it's been an awesome story. The Pistons are obviously a very proud story franchise. It's been a really rough decade or so for them, from a lack of success standpoint for a proud fan base. And they now have the makings of what should be a really fun team going forward

with a heck of a stud with the ball. The question is not, will Kate Cunningham be all-MBA? It's which all-MBA team will he make. He ranks 10th in the scoring, third in the assist, is filling the stat sheet up outside of that for a team that is winning. It's absolutely an all-N-BAs season. I just, I only, I only say that I'm not sure about it because I wait to start to really map it out. But to your point, especially when you start ticking off the number of guys that are not eligible for all NBA that would have been or would have been considered for it in the past, my expectation is that Gabe will be in the 15 at the end of the season as things stand now.

All right. So I've told the story before, but I'm just going to tell it again because we're talking about the Pistons. and for anybody who may not have seen it, and this is on ESPN, too. One of the most remarkable things that happened when Trajan Langdon got the president's job of this team, he hired J.B. Picker's staff, and he didn't really know him.

So often, you're going to get into a big job your first time, and you're making a, you know, it's not a risk hire, but like you're making a huge hire. You know, his whole, you know, the first coaching hire is so important. And it would have been easy for him to lean in to, He's been around the NBA. I think he got drafted in 99 or something like that. He's been around the NBA for 20 years.

There's a lot of people that he knew. But he believed that the job that needed to be done mirrored the job that Bickerstaff did when he turned the calves around. And so he brought him in. They got to know each other as much as they could. And it was a risk to hire somebody that you didn't know when you're a first time president, when you are taking over a team that demanded instantaneous improvement.

And that hire has been a home run. And so not only just the hire, but the analysis and the belief that Trajan Langdon had in going with J.B., I think is key backstory here. And the moves to go get Malik Beasley and Tim Hardaway. Malik Beasley is one of the best value signings in the whole NBA. Yeah. They went and put players around Kate Cunningham to put him in the best position to really find out what he could do. Now, they obviously also gave him a max contract and showed, hey, you're going to be our franchise guy going forward. but they then put him in a position to play like a franchise guy, and he has, and the results have been what they are.

McMahon, we're here in Los Angeles, and we ran into some timber wolves here in L.A. They made their way out here after their 24-point fourth quarter comeback, and on Tuesday, when we're recording this, they were still very much beaming from that. One of the craziest 10 minutes, because it was 24 points with 10 minutes to go, Aunt Edwards comes out of the game with a bit of a sore calf with three minutes and what 40 seconds left? Yeah, like 3.41, I think. They're down 16. The chances of that game get, I mean. And not just against any team, by the way.

Against the team that it was tied for the best record in the league. And Minnesota had a shot at the buzzer to win it. Like 16, they were down with 340 left and there was a ball in the air at the buzzer where they would have won it. I hate win probability, but that win probability was like 998, I'm sure. How could it not be 999? If it's not 999, what is it? What is the problem? From our ESPN research group, teams that had a 24-plus point lead in the fourth quarter had won 1,522 consecutive games until the Timberwolves rallied in Oklahoma City to win an overtime with Anthony Edwards watching the vast majority of the comeback from the bench.

And overtime. Jackson says 997. I almost nailed it. Did it say in the research thing what the last game was? Because I think I remember the game. It was Nets of Kings on March 19, 2019. Oh, so that still would have been, that was still, that was the year before Kyrie and Durant, yeah.

So a couple of things from this game. One, Terrence Shannon Jr. He's been getting extra playing time. Actually, three rookies from the wolves have been getting extra playing time with their guys out, with Julius Randall and Dante Jimenzzo out. But Sharon Shannon Jr. has been playing better. Dillingham was in this game.

I shouldn't say in this game. He was in during the stretch where they make the comeback. And Tarynne, Tarynne Jr., who was, you know, 27th pick in the draft, has been a developmental guy for them this year. He had a breakout stretch there. The wolves overall playing really good defense,

which is really the basis of their team, and they haven't played enough. Despite Rudy Gobert, not playing due to the back spasms that he's been dealing with coming out of the All-Star break. Yeah, and yeah, but they're four-time defensive player of the year.

Also, but more importantly, Bon Tem's total one-off game, I realize I'm not going to freak out with the Thunder, but the two-one-two trapping zone that Chris Finch pulled out, the wolves were playing small, and so they had a lot of speed on the court, which allowed them to do that.

But they trapped Shea aggressively, and then basically played zone on the back of it. I mean, in a way, it was almost sort of became a box, and or a triangle in two because they were trapping Shea to get the ball out of his hands and then scrambling in recovery. Yeah, the two were on one guy. Right. I got to say like if I'm watching Oklahoma City, I'm not, I'm not necessarily saying like I'm

going to play that for an entire quarter. But I'm putting that in my arsenal if I'm thinking about using it against them later because as you've talked about all year, there are times that Oklahoma City can, especially in half court offense, can go a little dry. and secondly, Oklahoma City has got to develop ways to deal with that because after seeing what it did to them, they're going to be seeing it again. I don't know if it's going to be this week or this month,

but it's going to happen again. Yeah, I mean, look, this is one of those games where I'm much more concerned about fall behind by 24 if I'm the wolves in the long term that I am making the crazy comeback to win the game against the Thunder. What obviously is a fluke game? However, what are USWB response to me that was missing three starters. Okay.

The sample size is. the 40 minutes that led up to the lead, not the crazy comeback. However, yes, if you are a thunder pessimist, which there are thunder pessimists in the league, the criticism of the thunder as a championship contending team is that after Shea, there's a lot of questions about shot creation and offense. And Shea very well may be the MVP of the league. He has been unbelievable. But like you said, in the playoffs, you're going to see teams try to get the ball out of his hands. And can Jaylon Williams, and can, you know, these other guys, as they are hard to sign, Chad, Holmgren, whoever's going to end up with the ball trying to make plays,

are they going to be able to do enough offensively to make up for that? So I think over the course of time, if you play in a triangle two and double Shea, the Thunder are going to figure that out and it's going to work. It was a good gimmick thing for Chris Finch to pull off there, got him a crazy comeback win. But the general point of, are the Thunder going to be able to make up enough offense outside of She to win at the highest level? That is very much a question.

and we talked the other day about pessimists of the thunder, that's the biggest thing they're going to point to. Yeah, and I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for Oklahoma City, because, again, the wolves were short-handed. They pulled off the comeback with Ant watching the vast majority of it will worsen a little calf injury. I will point out, though, that Chet Hungren set out this game, second out of it back-to-back, obviously still pretty early coming back off that injury.

Terrible fashion choice wore a hat with like a picture of himself on it. But, again, only team-issued gear would be my advice to him. Bigger point, though, he did not play. Isaiah Hartenstein had a facial laceration and didn't play down the stretch of this game. The Oklahoma City Thunder are an average team when they don't have either of their awesome seven-footers. When they have one or the other, they're awesome. When they have both, they're unbelievable. But, you know, ideally, if you're Oklahoma City and you've got teams that are trapped in

Shea up, you know, 35 feet from the, from the hoop to force the ball of his hands. You can get it to one of those guys in the middle of that, both good passers, both guys capable of, you know, putting the ball on the floor and finishing. Hartnstein's got the push shot. You know, Chet's got a lot of skills. Without either of those guys, you're taking away, you know, two of their four best players, I would say. I still say, though, that they were up 24 and they're up 16 with three and a half to go, and

that's probably going to matter a lot more. One thing that's been pointed out, in the fourth quarter and overtime, the wolves went to the line 22 times. So one of the ways you allow. That is how you come back from that kind of deficit. It helps to come back when you can score when the clock is stopped. And our guy, our guy, Chris Finch, still about the refs post game talking about they foul on every play. What you hear, you hear opponents and opposing coaches say that about the thunder,

certainly the best defensive league, the most physical defense of league. And then he said, and when you touch, they don't let you touch SGA. So O. Finchie, I think, was trying to kind of lay the foundation for some. Hey, could be a first round series. Could easily be a 1-8 series in the first round. Well, it's thunder. You know, last time I saw Chris Finch, Ohio State had just lost to Michigan. And we were very, very much lamenting the state of the team.

We're not talking about Ohio State football. Get out of here with Ohio State. In fact, we are. I saw Tyler Ford yesterday. He would like to talk about Ohio State too. Rightfully so. So I'm looking forward. Finch and the wolves are going to be in town for three days here.

I'm going to see him. And we're going to have a nice debrief. Not about the comeback. Get out of here. Get out of here with the Ohio State talk. Hey, Bontems, I see a iron back there behind McMahon. He is six floors away from me. I'm here for a long week this week.

Yeah. Are you offering a service? could I bring down some, some clothing and you could, you know, make me nice and fresh? Listen, I am certainly open for negotiations. I probably could have gotten that iron out of the way before we started. It's a hectic day here in a better brush. I'm open negotiations, especially since I had to pull out the credit card last night

and pay for my own share of dinner. By the way, he reached for it without even me looking. Like, his credit card was already down. before I could even get to my wallet. You know what that means? That means there's something coming. I don't know what it is. Eating dinner with money, though, it had its benefits.

We went to Craigs in Hollywood. A heck of a spot, historic spot. Boy, were they happy to see Wendy. We got there early. Our reservations about 45 minutes later. No, no, no. We got a nice little table right after, by the way. Listen, Hollywood's about stars.

We got a star here. In the lobby of the hotel, we run into God, sham got the Mazda assistant coach, obviously a basketball legend, a New York City playground legend, and he introduces us to one of his buddy. He said, this is Jadicus. And Jadikis, the rap legend, asked Wendy to take a picture with him.

Daticus, huge hoops fan. Hey, hangar with Wendy has its benefits. I think he was just down to Mello Pot the other day talking about some hoops stuff. He's big hoops fan. He knows the game. He's got those little lobster claw arms when it comes to check time. Yeah. well, you should have seen McMahon.

Well, I'll just leave it alone. All right. Thank you for watching the Houp Collective. Thank you to Jackson, our producer. Thank you to Bontems. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for watching and listening. We'll talk to you later this week.

Adios amigos.