Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Major Playoff Drama For Knicks & Thunder + Butler Injury Update

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and eventually Tim MacMahon to talk one of the most unique playoff endings between the Pistons & Knicks, the Clippers’ big win & some issues with restrictions on viewing the game, an update on Jimmy Butler’s injury for the Warriors, the huge impact Evan Mobley winning DPOY will have on the Cavs and the Thunder completing one of the craziest comebacks in playoff history against Memphis. Plus, an update on Ja Morant’s injury. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing in the middle of freaking night. Joining us from New York City, where they're still celebrating, except they're all actually asleep because they're sane.

Their victory in Detroit on Thursday night, it's Tim Ponteps. So I got a couple great updates for the pod listeners. First update is our guy, Tim McMahon, the slowest rider on the planet, certainly in the West. He's busy working. So we'll see when he shows up. The second update. He's in Memphis. The second update is our boy window is in a real sour mood for a whole bunch of reasons.

One of them is that there's going to be a lot of sleep updates. And we'll get to the others. But we're going to have a real spicy pot. I'm excited. We're in trouble. We're in trouble that this is the first week of the playoffs. And I am already in this place. I wish I had a vibe in.

I wish I could get it out. McMahon will join us as soon as he's done writing about the greatest collapse slash comeback in the modern era of the playoffs. We'll probably be on 4 a.m. Eastern time by the time he's done crafting. McMahon does a lot of things. I wouldn't say craft is one of them. All right. So we're going to start with what happened in Detroit tonight. Big game for the Pistons and years coming for Detroit. The crowd was very into it. But the Knicks knew that it was a pivotal moment for their season. Really, they had to put their foot in the ground, especially after the way game two went down.

where it was sort of Jalen Brunson or nothing else. And it was a very interesting finish to the game, which we'll get to in a moment. But the grander tale, this was the Knicks kind of at their best, I thought, Bontemps, because there are stars in the starting lineup, all the money and draft pick capital that they had invested to put those five together

that we've been talking about since October. They all played well. Carl Towns was aggressive considering he had, what did he take? One shot in the second half, where he had one basket. A couple shots, a couple shots in the second half, none in the fourth quarter the other night. Totally different mindset, which is one of the things about the NBA playoffs. You see these each game sort of, obviously there's certain matchup situations that don't change and certain themes that become apparent.

But so often NBA playoff games, you get yourself in trouble making assumptions that one thing is going to carry over to the other. You never, sometimes it does, but sometimes it just doesn't. Carl Towns had a completely different focus in this game. And was the Carl Towns, I mean, I don't know if I would say he was at his best, but this is the kind of towns they need. You have 31 points. Yeah, I mean, this is the very simple stat.

In game, in game two, Jalen Brunson had 27 shots. Carl Towns had 11, 38 total shots. In game three, Jalen Brunson had 20 shots. Carl Towns had 18. Same 38 shots distributed evenly. O.GN and Obie had 17. Bacale Bridges had 13. The ball was moving around.

It was not the Jalen Brunson show, as you said. Carl was very aggressive throughout the game, including late in the game, made a couple really big shots late. And like you said, the Knicks didn't look like the, stationary, very rough offensive team they were in game two when everything was a slog. And Jalen in the clutch did what he does, made a couple of huge buckets. And, you know, these guys held on through some drama down the stretch and got to win. But, you know, look, the last couple days, there was a lot of noise around the Knicks and a lot of

noise in New York about where this team was going after that loss on Monday night. and they responded really, really well, and the result was getting back ahead in the series. All four Bridges, Ananoi Towns, and Brunson all had at least 20, and Josh Hart almost had a triple double, you know, rebounding and assisting. It was exactly the type of game that you want from them. And then Jalen's comfort level in a tight game is just, you know,

he's worth his weight in gold in a tight game because he is, he knows how to get himself into foul position. He knows how to get to that spot. You know, he's obviously the heavy left-handed player, but he almost always gets into his left side and is able to get good looks. And sometimes he gets really high percentage looks. You almost can't believe he does.

He's done it for years now, but it's like, how did he get to the rim? How did he get that shot? He's an expert at creating space. You're exactly right. I also felt, so Towns and Brunson had 20 free throws tonight. I didn't think it was a reaction necessarily to Tibbs rant the other day. Having said that after the Knicks got out shot by, it was double-digit free throws in this game,

they had more free throws. It was only by a couple, but. It was a product of the Knicks aggressiveness. They were much more aggressive. And Carl, in particular, was much more aggressive. As Jackson just dropped in here, he had 12 drives in the game. today and he had a 15 in the first two games combined. He just looked much more like the player that he has been all season. And when he is engaged like this offensively, the Knicks are

a totally different looking team. And they were much more in command of the game right from the jump, but really throughout the game. And it was a back and forth game like these games have all been, but the Knicks looked much more like the Knicks than they did in both games one and two, when like we talked about, outside of a couple brief stretches in the fourth quarter, frankly, they got pretty well dominated by the business. I want to talk about what happened at the end of the game, but before I say that, this was not Cade Cunningham's most efficient game. He had 24 points, but he took 25 shots.

He had six turnovers. There were times where he was squeezing a little hard. He did have 11 assists. However. He also had six turnovers. I mean, he's also just carrying. Yeah. I thought, I didn't know if I said.

that is. Yeah, he's carrying a massive load, though. And like, look, again, you look at this game, right? Tobias Harris didn't make a field goal until there were less than five minutes to go. So Malik Beasley hit a three late. He was awful off the bench. I mean, Dennis Schroeder's got a lot of Russell Westbrook in him. You know, he's going to have moments where he does some really positive things. He also is going to have a lot of moments where he really is a problem for you in this kind of a game. He was guarding Jalen. Jane was getting wherever he wanted against him.

I mean, this is just a limited Pistons team. There's a reason why I thought it was going to be a five-game series. And Kay's going through it for the first time in the playoffs. I think he's had some really good moments. But getting towards the end of these games, he's looking a little tired, and it's understandable because he's got OGM and O'B leaning on him the whole game, and he's got to just carry an immense burden every single time down to court.

Having said that, watching him, I've seen two of these three games. You're able to watch the game, Brian? I was able to watch this game. I enjoyed watching the playoff game. Some foreshadowing for later, folks. I was already there. I mean, he was second team all NBA in my ballot. He's on.

I think he was 13 for me. but he was 100% on one of them. Might have been 13. Either way. He's going to make all NBA this year. I already knew this. I mean, I'm not the risk of being branded a discoverer.

I've never even been more convinced at this. Like, watching him operate in this series, even though they're down to one, I have only become more convinced of how amazing his future is going to be. This being his first playoff series, like he's been excellent. He's been awesome. He's acquitted.

himself really well. And like you said, I mean, a guy at his size, I mean, I've liked him since he came in the league. Obviously, he's the number one pick. But I mean, is a six, six, six, seven guy at his size who can obviously run the point, handle the ball. We talked a lot about that World Cup training camp after he sat out the whole year with the shin issue. He shows up. He was the best player on the court in those practices really stood out. Obviously, last year was a train wreck for the Pistons, but he's got some spacing around him now. And he has been awesome. And the fact that he has held up as well as he has emotionally through the first three games of this series, at times being the one calming down, some veteran teammates on his team, he's been super impressive, regardless

of what the stats say. And he's, yeah, he's living up to it for sure. Tough loss for the pistons to lose at home and also on a night when Tim Hardaway and Dennis Schroeder combined to go 11 of 18 on threes. You mentioned in League Beasley didn't shoot well. Agree, but they shot the ball well on their home court tonight and still we're not able to get it done. Get it done. All right. I do want to talk a little bit about, so this series is far from over, but obviously the Knicks have taken back home court and they've put their foot in the ground a little bit. Might have some momentum.

We'll see. I still think this thing could go seven. I think it's definitely... The Knicks just don't get any separation. I mean, all these games have been close. I mean, it's going to come down to... I mean, Jalen won clutch player of the year for a reason. The two of the three games, he's played well in the fourth quarter.

They won. Even had moments where he played well in game two. But, you know, this is sort of who the Knicks are. So are they going to keep operating that way? I mean, they're probably going to kick away at least another game based on how this is gone. Yeah. Okay, two interesting moments. in the last minute, maybe the last like 30 seconds.

No, the last 20 seconds, maybe. Nicks are up by three with the ball inbounding from the side out of bounds. Jalen Brunson is going to get the ball to get fouled. And he catches the ball basically right at the half court line, pointing away from his basket, running away with his back to hit the basket he's trying to score on. and I didn't notice it in real time.

Instantly, he was caught and fouled within two seconds. But when you watch the replay, when the ball came into him, he was standing on, you know, in the front court. And when he corralled the ball, he was in the back court. And obviously, a over and back in that spot would have given the ball with, you know, a handful of seconds left to Detroit to,

drop a play, potentially take a game-tying three-pointer. The Pistons fans went nuts about this. They did review it in the moment, and Zach Zarba, who is top three or four official, in my opinion, gave the explanation to the crowd and then gave the same explanation, essentially, with a little bit more detail in a pool interview after the game. But Bont-Temps, he cited a rule that I was not aware of, and I'm not a rule chapter and verse guy. But he cited a rule that I'm not aware of that I think is going to be a topic in Detroit on Friday. Yeah, I mean, you want to talk about it. Yeah, sure. I was trying to pull up

the pool report. I was watching it live and I said and I think tweeted at the time, I thought it was a back court violation. It certainly looked like he caught the ball as he was in the back court, or going from the front court to the back court, which is by definition a back court. And this is finally loaded. You can inbound the ball into the back court, but you can't touch it. in the front court. You can't catch it in the front court and then go into the back court, which is certainly what it looked like Jalen Brunson did. And rather than reading this, and I guess I can read this entire thing, the poor, poor question was, can you look, they'll look for clarification on this rule you cited, which he said is rule for section G,

which is front court, back court status is not obtained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half. Okay, that's the key. You can stop right there. Correct. So essentially what they said was, because Jayla Brunson didn't catch the ball and stop in the front court and he was running over the midcourt line as he caught it, it was not a backward violation. By common sense rules to me, it was a back court violation. It looked like a back court violation. You know, momentum carrying him that way, I guess means it isn't.

I feel like this has been cited in the past. I don't think it's the first time. I think there was only a handful of seconds left at the time. I'm sure that they didn't make it up. I'm sure it's a very common rule. No, no, no, for sure. I don't mean that. I have never heard the positive.

momentum verbiage before. And if I have, I forgot. Yeah. But if I was a Pistons fan, I would not take that, I would not take that, you know, easily, the positive momentum thing. There was a lot of booze in the Little Caesar's arena crowd when they showed the replay of Jalen Brunson pretty clearly catching the ball in the front court as he was running into the back court as he was going to shoot the free court.

Well, he certainly touched it in the front court and he controlled it in the front court. I don't know if he fully caught it, but I don't know. Either way. Okay, that happened. Who knows? Even if they'd call the turnover there, it's not like Detroit was guaranteed to hit a three. So, okay.

That's right. The other thing that is just downright bizarre and is definitely going to be fuel for conspiracy theorists for the next 24 hours at least. It was a two-point game. You know, scoring happened both ways or whatever. It's a two-point game. Jalen Brunson is on the line.

There is five-tenths of a second remaining. Half a second. The pistons are out of timeouts. So if Brunson makes a first, throw. It's not like Detroit could call timeout and go set up a three. So Jayland does something that we have seen in basketball over the decades. He purposely misses the free throw. Well, and the funny thing is it looked like there was confusion about what he should do because he kept looking over to the bench. At one point, it looked like the bench told him to miss it. Then they cut over to his father,

Rick Brunson, who was sitting there pretty clearly, it looked like saying make it, make it. And then he didn't make it. And you can lay out what, happen after that. Okay. So he didn't make it. He hit the rim and it popped up in the air. Okay. But no one touched it. No one touched it. The clock starts and game buzzer happens, obviously, split second later. But nobody touched it. Which for people to, I'm sure everyone listening knows this, but the rule on that is it's not, the clock doesn't start when it hits the rim. The clock starts when someone touches the ball off a free throw in that situation. Right.

So, okay. Why did they award Detroit the ball, though? So I checked on this with the league just to make sure that we would have the right answer for the podcast. Thank you. As an intrepid worker, I'm like our guy who is not here. And I asked why was it ruled in the way that it was. and in an instance like that, where there is a clock malfunction, the ball goes to the team that was an imminent possession of,

was going to be an imminent possession of getting it. Now, again, for people that didn't see this, Jalen misses this free throw. Not surprisingly, all of the Knicks aren't on the free throw line because the whole point is to not foul the pistons. And you missed that spot in theory because you have to catch it and then shoot it in a half a second with no time out. That rule makes perfect sense because you don't want the guy to miss a free throw and you have a jump ball and then all of a sudden you can get a free possession.

Right. So they end up ruling the ball as a side out because the pisses are going to get the ball. Right. And you can't like redo the free throw. But the problem is, the problem is in that instance, if you catch the ball there, by rule two or three tenths of a second has to come off the clock. This is where the Trent Tucker rule, ironically involving the Knicks, came in 40 years ago, because Trent Tucker hit a shot and the game would have ended without the three-tenths of a second rule, which is why it's now you have to have three-tenths

of the second on the clock to have enough time to get a jump shot off at the end of the game. So because no time came off the clock, in theory, this would have allowed the Pistons to have a catch-and-shoot to win the game. The reason Jayland purposely missed the free throw is to ensure that the Pistons couldn't have even a prayer. That's right. remove the prayer. And now, not only were they, it was the prayer put back on the table, but while they were reviewing it, the Pistons who didn't have a timeout were able to have a time

out. Now I'll point something out. You may ask yourself, well, who starts the clock? Was it the home clock operator who somehow had previously considered this conspiracy theory and said, oh, I'm going to get the Pistons a side out of bounds here? The answer is that the official start the clock. I believe there is a fail-safe where the clock operator also does it which is I suspect might have been who started it but the officials have a

a box a device on their belt that starts the clock and so it was you know after the game the implication I saw an interview with Josh Hart there may have been others. Josh Hart implicated some home cooking.

You know, the, the crew at mid-court is technically neutral hired by the NBA. However, it's, you know, in the arena is the same people run it every day.

I mean, they're local people. So, all right. So I don't, I'm not sure why, I'm not sure why that clock went off like that, but I,

I would highly, highly doubt that it was, a conspiracy maneuver. It wasn't a conspiracy. It just happened. Mistakes happened. And look, at the end of the day, Jalen Duren threw a horrific inbound pass to nowhere. That's right. They tried to throw a pass. He tried to throw a pass over to the crew calling the game side at the side. He almost threw it right into the booth. And so it did matter in the next one on to win the game anyway. He tried to throw it to Mike Breen, who was calling the game for MSG. That's true. Our pal Mike Breen is there. Anyway, those were two weird events at the end of the game.

I don't think either affected the outcome of the game. Even if, like I said, even if Brunson gets called for back court, you know. No, the Knicks deserve to win the game. Absolutely. Absolutely. That was fine. Okay. So that game goes to game four.

Pistons in a must win. If they go down 3-1, I don't think they're winning three straight with two of them being at the garden. So, um, obviously, a close to, series could still, I still suspect it could go seven. Okay, so that's that. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Let's turn the page. Bontemp's I would like to talk about the Nuggets Clippers game. Me too. Which I got to watch that game. It was great. Super fun watch. Dominant Clipper performance. As you know, this is a series I've been most keyed into. Yeah, been really excited about it. And you know, I've been like, you know, just in general, this is a Clipper-friendly

pod. Sure. You know, you know throughout the award candidacies all season. James Harden, Norm Powell, Avisa Zubach, all of them.

We were trying to get Norm Powell onto the All-Star team. Didn't happen, but, you know, all right. We love the Clippers.

We love the Nuggets. We love the NBA. We like to watch NBA playoff games. And obviously, Charles Barkley made some headlines on Wednesday overnight

to Thursday because he mocked the NBA for putting Nuggets Clippers on NBA TV while Grizzlies Thunder, which had been a 70-point differential of the first two games, was on the TNT main stage. As it turned out, the correct game was on the main stage. Well, Charles declared that the Pistons are going to win by a thousand tonight, too, so he was missing on some predictions. Well, the best things you can do is if Charles picks against your team, that's when you should,

with all due respect. We love Charles, but that's usually a good sign for that. the team you picked against. If you've listened to this pot at all, you know that I routinely complain about not being able to watch three teams that I live hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles from when I'm here at home. The thunder nuggets and walls for those people. That's right.

It is over 500 miles from my house to Ball Arena. It is an hour and 20 minute flight. it is the same flight distance from basically like New York to Charlotte okay yeah it's about that Boston to Washington D.C okay um and this NBA TV this NBA TV blackout and and I understand that I'm about to to get hot I've been I've been complaining about this for a decade and I'm about to get hot about it again and I understand that I understand that I'm about to get hot about it again and I understand that it's going away, that starting next year with the new television deals, that this is not going to be a thing, that if you have Amazon Prime, and if you have a cable subscription,

well, I mean, you might need Peacock. That's another thing. Let's there here nor there. The point is, you will be able, if you want, to be able to get all the games in the playoffs and the regular season. but this is three nights in a row on Wednesday night on Tuesday night there was issues of people in Indiana because the Pacers have gone to a new you know

the Pacers have their own there's a new network that's not on as many cable systems and Pacers Box was on a BATV also same issue Wednesday night in Cleveland the Cavs they've you know their network has been caught in the stuff

and has been dropped from a lot of cable systems and then Thursday night in Denver, where this has been a problem for years on end with altitude, the Nuggets Network. I cannot understand or fathom how a playoff game can be so hard to watch. Oh, it's pathetic. I mean, it's pathetic that we're talking about

the fact that NBA playoff games are being blacked out. It's pathetic that regular season, in games are being blacked out. The blackout rule is a completely antiquated, ridiculous thing. It shouldn't exist anymore. The NBA should be fighting every way possible. It's not going to exist anymore. Right.

But it doesn't matter. It's probably going to exist in a regular season. This has been an ongoing, massive problem for the league and frankly, a black eye for the league. The Denver Nugget situation with altitude has been an absolute embarrassment for the league for years. Nicole Yolkich has been probably the most excited. if not the most exciting player in the league, one of the three most exciting players in the league

for six, seven years. And for the vast majority of that time, the vast majority of people in Denver couldn't watch the games. I mean, it's just, it's absurd. And it's completely absurd that we're talking about this with playoff games. What are we doing here? Like, come on. This is crazy. 529 miles from where I'm sitting right now to ball arena.

It's crazy. I mean, and by the way, it's crazy for the people if you live in Denver to have the game being black. out. Show the damn game on NBA TV. What are we doing? This is insane. Well, like I said, this is going to be resolved next year. But it's not resolved today. 465. By the way, had it been the inverse, let's say that they didn't do it this way. And I could have watched this game. Had the Thunder game been on NBA TV, I'm 465 miles where I'm sitting right now from the Paycom Center, also blacked out.

and would have been blacked out if it was on NBA TV. Yeah, you would have won it. Whichever game they picked, you wouldn't have been able to watch it. I'm in a weird spot in the middle of the country, you know, that like, you know, the NBA is not going to look at their, look at this and say, boy, we're worried about it. But it doesn't matter, man. There should be a single fan in Denver that's not able to watch the Nuggets play in a

play in a playoff game. Like, that is insane. certainly people who are literally another time zone away. But I'm talking about in the market. If you're a Cavs fan in Cleveland, there's no reason you shouldn't have able to see that game. Same thing with the Pacers on Tuesday. Same thing with Denver on Thursday. Well, look, the concept is that they're protecting their local TV.

Yeah, and they, and guess what? But the local TV has fallen through the cracks. It's too hard to get. And really very, and I'm reacting to this guy. I couldn't watch this game, but people in Cleveland last night were really upset that they couldn't watch the game. And I know that it's not a new thing. It's insane. I know that it's not a quote unquote new thing.

By the way, I assume in Miami too, I didn't see the reaction in Miami, but the Miami fans would have the same problem. I'm not sure. It's just crazy that we're talking. talking about any playoff game that fans cannot watch the game. I'm getting things for True TV and TNT show in the same game. Put one of the games on True TV. What are we doing? All of this is crazy. It's just, it's ridiculous on a thousand levels that we're sitting here talking about fans not be able to watch their teams play in playoff games. So, and by the way, I am aware that I can get access to the games in other ways,

either A, through some sort of illegal stream, which considering I work for a cable provider or cable company, or a company that puts its stuff on cable, I can't endorse that nor do that. I'm not going to do that. That hurts my company. You can't figure out how to do it. Let's be honest, folks.

I'm not denying that, but I'm not even going to try. The second thing is, yes, the MBA has offered me special access to watch this VIP stream. I don't want the VIP stream. I pay for league pass. Well, and guess what the VIP stream doesn't help? It doesn't help average Joe fan who's at home and wants to watch the Nuggets game. This is what I'm talking about.

I pay for league pass on YouTube TV like everybody else. I pay the full price and therefore I, as a paying customer, I can say what I want to say about it. We like to watch the games. We love to watch playoff games. So I am somebody who is a premium subscriber to NBA basketball, and I cannot watch a playoff game in what could have been a vital game. So I cannot tell you what really happened in this game. I watched zero seconds of it.

I could look at the box score and say, boy, it looks like Michael Porter's shoulder was really bothering him because he did not look. not look great trying. There was one point when he got throwing a pass and he had to try to use that left arm and it didn't look great. Wasn't looking good. It must have been a pretty special performance in the first ever playoff game. It was the dome. The dome, the toilet bowl crowd was into the game. Clippers were banging threes left and right. Russell Westbrook had a foot issue that then maybe turned into a hip issue. It was unclear exactly what the issue was. He didn't come back in the game. And Denver is in a lot of trouble.

Like, the Clippers have been great. They were great in this game. Cli was good again. The Clippers very easily could have won game one. This could be. 100% should have won game one. They blew it. This could be 3-0 right now.

They blew it. And, you know, this is, the Clippers are a buzzsaw at the moment. They are 20 and 4 in the last 24 games. and very easily could have been 21 and 3, because like I said, they could have easily won game 1. The concern that I would have as a Denver fan, in addition to the health of Porter and Westbrook,

is that Yokic and Murray, like Yokic goes 9 to 14, 23 points, 13 rebounds, 13 assists, has just two turnovers. Because, you know, in game 2, when he had, I think he had seven, he had seven turnovers. So he cut that down.

That's not an elite Yokic game, but it's not like he went two of seven. And Jamal Murray goes eight of 15, scores 23 points with four assists. He did have three turnovers. That's not a dud performance by those two guys. And they got beat by 30. Yeah, I mean, it's rough. And look, I've been saying it since before the series started. The Denver has no player that can guard James Hard.

like for as great as Kauai has been and Kauai was good again tonight James Hardness will get whatever he wants throughout this series and if James Hardin is having good game after good game the Clippers are an extraordinarily tough team to beat and it's it's I don't look you know knock on wood that the clippers stay healthy

obviously that's the thing hanging over this series like it has been for a long time with the Clippers but barring injury it's very hard to see the way back in the series for Denver. They just, they do not look like they can keep up with this clipper team. And now the games are going to start coming every other day.

We'll see if Westbrook's able to play. This is a not very deep nugget team. There's a lot of guys that Thai Lou can go to on the Clippers. He's playing nine or ten guys a game. Like it's, it's, it's going to be a challenge. I don't know if this was,

if this was a product of garbage time. again, I didn't get to really watch it. Peyton Watson, who is, you know, especially with Michael Porter Ailing, a key player and a guy that they really lean on. I mean, this is a guy they, you know, they, there was, you know, there were multiple reasons why they haven't signed some of their veterans. But one of them was that they believe that, you know, their young guys, Christian Brown, Peyton Watson, their young wings could step up.

Peyton Watson played 18 minutes in this game was minus 29. I'm not, again, I didn't see him play. Maybe that's a product of circumstance. That's not what you need. You needed Peyton Watson to have a big game, you know, and I'm not saying you need to score 30. I'm saying they needed production from Peyton Watson. And minus 29, not what you need.

Yeah, I mean, they got a lot of problems. I mean, he was minus 17 in the first half in six. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. That's just not good. You know, it's, it, the Clippers are a buzzsaw. And look, Nicole Yolkich is unbelievable, not counting them out. But this is going to take something special for this series to turn around in Denver's favor with Porter banged up. Westbrook banged up. You know, he only played nine minutes, never came back in the game.

They got to play in less than 48 hours on Saturday. It's going to be a challenge. because this clipper team is awesome. Also, Norm Powell has been kind of in a slump to the point where, you know, he's been one of the great stories of the NBA season. Some people were calling for him to have his playing time reduced.

He has put together some promising games or at least some promising stretches and he had 20 points tonight. And when that, that's starting line out that the clippers have assembled, like the way that they're playing, the way that they played down the stretch, which was Chris Dunn playing alongside James Hardin in the back court,

Dunn being an excellent on-ball defender. And then you've got Zubach, who's playing the best basketball of his career, defending your back line. And then you've got the wings who can score like that, who can, you know, Powell more of a three-point shooter than Kauai is, although Kauai has been shooting three-pointers freaking great for the last month. And then they got Nico Batum and Derek Jones, coming in off the bench guys who can hit threes and know how to guard and smart players.

Yeah, Batum was a little bit banged up. He is now back, he had four threes in this one. And, you know, look, Bogdye Bogdanovich, friend of the pod. Like, he didn't have a good game tonight, but he's been a real good pickup for them. You're right. They go, Ty can go nine deep and not worry. And so, again, I would say a must-win game for Denver, because while you respect Yokic, the idea that the clippers who have lost four games in six weeks or whatever are

going to lose three in a row, I don't like it. And obviously it's happened in the past. They've blown games. They've blown leads. They've blown a three-one lead to Denver in particular. Yes. I realize that. I would just, I would not want to be in that position.

I would say, I would advise the Nuggets to win game four. Yes. All right. Before McMahon joins us here, there's a couple of things in the league. that we need to discuss. First off, we have MRI results on Jimmy Butler. We're going to talk about John Morant in a minute when McMahon gets on here. John Morant and Jimmy Butler had eerily similar falls on back-to-back nights,

where Butler was going for a rebound. They both got their legs taken out from underneath them under the basket. and fell like on their pelvis from like High heights. Yeah. Both of them were very squeamish looking injuries. So Jimmy, I mean, I guess it's good he didn't break his hip or break his tailbone. Because by the way, we saw Chad Holmgren have a fall kind of similar to this.

I mean, it's almost the same exact play. I mean, he laid it on his hip rather than his side or on his pelvis. But yeah, I mean, that was how he broke his hip earlier. this year. So, you know, so I guess it's good news. Jimmy Butler did not come out of this MRI with them saying there's a hairline fracture of his pelvis or something. For sure. But Shams reported, like, it's, it's a significant contusion, you know, he's got a, he's got a, he's got a, he's got a deep bruise and he's, you know, his status is up in the air for Saturday's game three. Right. So, um, I believe, uh, he's got a, he's got a deep bruise. He's got a, he's got a, he's got a deep bruise. He's, he's got a, he's got a

I believe just Jeff Stott's in street clothes on X. He's got this amazing injury database. And obviously, you know, hip contusions, or in this case, it's a glute contusion, they're not all created equal. But he, his database says, guys, you know, miss between two and three games and, you know, usually a week on this.

Okay, so maybe it's not, it's, you're not going to do that because it's the playoffs. but Jimmy Butler is going to be either probably likely limited or out of game three. And, you know, they are going to be back home in San Francisco. But Steve Kerr said it, Pontemps. He's like, if we don't have Jimmy, we have to change like almost everything we do. It's hard to see how. Yeah.

It's hard to see how they can win this series that Jimmy Butler isn't right. Like, it's just very hard. And you saw it in game two. I mean, they're just, this is a, if you have Steph and Jimmy, right, and they are controlling the ball for 48 minutes, and then you have all these role players sort of filling in gaps around them. It, the, the Warriors have kind of a finely tuned machine with those guys that's working really well. And it's, it gives them enough offense to kind of carry it through. But if they just have Steph and then not much else and you're playing against this. Rockets team that is not an offensive juggernaut by any means,

but is just this big physical, mauling team that's just going to make every game an absolutely hellacious rock fight. That's asking a lot to try to drag your way through that for another five games if Jimmy isn't right. And I mean, even in game one, the Warriors more or less controlled the game, but they still, even with Jimmy, weren't putting it away.

I mean, it was still a 10-point game. And Jimmy and Steph were really good. So we'll see. I mean, we've seen Jimmy fight through a bunch of stuff. It certainly wouldn't shock me if he plays well and finds a way to get through, get out there and play. But it's a concerning development to say the least. And I don't think the Warriors can survive this series without him.

Well, we know that Steve Kerr doesn't want to play Jonathan Kamenga. Actions over words. He took him out of the rotation. He had to play him 26 minutes after Butler got hurt, and he was 4 or 12. He's got to play now. I mean, the truth is, the truth is I defend Steve Kerr on not playing Jonathan Cominga with their current iteration of their team because Jonathan Cominga is a guy who needs the ball in his hands.

And if you have the ball in Jimmy and Steph's hands, you don't need to have the ball in Jonathan Cominguez hands. But if Jimmy Butler can't play, this is a huge opportunity for Jonathan Cominga. They're going to need him to produce for them. And if Jimmy can't play, he's probably going to have. a really big role in game three. And for a guy who's looking at restricted free agency this summer in the last few weeks, I've certainly not gone in the way he hoped they would.

Well, here's a chance to really step up and show what you're capable of doing in a really big spot and see how it goes. Yeah, you are at least going to a guy who's got a lot of talent and has had big moments in the NBA. So if indeed they have to go to him without Jimmy. But the Jimmy Butler injury now, is one of the biggest things going in the Western Conference.

So we'll see what that happens. The other thing is you may need Steph to have a monster, one of these games where he hits 11 threes and scores 48 or something. He's going to have to do that probably anyway, but he certainly is if Jimmy isn't playing. And he just didn't, you know,

look, he's had plenty of good games in Houston. He just didn't have a good game. Like, you know, Houston gets credit for that, etc. they can't serve if jimmy is out they can't survive stuff being average they need stuff to be great and it's harder when that's the case uh okay well we will be monitored um there was a big award that came out on thursday cash corner certainly a big award for evan mowgli who won defensive player of the year and triggered a 45 million dollar contract uh bonus over the next five years i was at the

the Cavs game last night in Cleveland. And, you know, we asked Evan about, you know, whether it was on his mind. Of course it was. And, you know, he said, I set this goal out in the beginning of the year and I worked hard for it and I deserved it. And, you know, for a guy who doesn't really talk a lot about himself and certainly not with any kind of force. He's got a little more comfortable doing that this year. You're right. I went up to the young fellow in Boston a couple months ago after he, he declared at the All-Star game that the best player in the world could either be he or Victor Wenbenyama.

I said, Evan, where was that? I did not see that one coming. Donovan Mitchell gave me some encouragement to do that. And Evan, Evan was happy to talk about it. Well, Donovan said... It's fun to see him grow in that manner. You know, Donovan said, well, you know, he and Victor are going to be trading this award

back and forth for the next decade. I'm not sure that's true, but Evan's got one now that Victor doesn't, you know? That's true. I always felt that this award was going to be the highest contested of all of them. We'll see where the MVP shakes out, you know, but seven people will not be getting a first place vote for MVP.

Seven people got a first place vote for defensive player. Right. That's exactly right. Yeah. So Evan had 35 of the first place votes. Dyson Daniels who finished second had 25. I'll also just say, Dyson Danos, first team all NBA, defender. for me.

Had a great year. We're going to talk about Thunder Grizzlies later. Anybody who watched Thunder Grizzlies watched the way Oss Caruso played should not have been voting for Dyson Daniels

defensive player of the year. Because he ain't the best perimeter defender in the league. Well, Alex Crusoe wasn't eligible. I know he wasn't eligible. I'm just saying that that guy in that game was

truly game-breaking in a way we have to wait for Mr. McMahon to speak on that game. We'll get into that more. We got a lot to talk about with this Evan Moby thing. So continue. So, yeah, so Evan Moby wins, Dyson Daniels second, which that's a terrific showing for Dyson

Daniels considering. Yeah, great year for him. He was not on the board. And, you know, did make my first team all defense. So I assume he'll be, well, I shouldn't assume, but, you know, considering he finished He's going to make, he's going to make all defense for sure. Dreyman Green finished third. He was a finalist.

That's not a surprise. I think I would have, I was actually pleasantly surprised that Dyson finished second. I felt that Evan was going to win. And there had been some... I was certainly expecting it. Yeah, but I thought Draymond was going to finish second with his late kick. So I was actually happy with the voters. No offense, I'm not trying to throw shade, but I didn't think Draymond was first or second.

He was not on my first team all defense. So I'll just put it at that. And Lou Dort, who I had on my ballot. I did vote for Evan in the end. I had Lou Dort third. I actually had, if it's a Zubach second. second. I had Zubach first. I had Zubach Mobley and I believe Jaron third on my. You were one of four people that voted Zubach. Yeah, my votes look at, I feel pretty good about my vote with the way

this first round has played out. But we should talk about, I think, the most important part of this award, which is not Evan getting it. Yeah, so the $45 million bonus. It's terrific for him, but it adds about $7.5 million to the Cavs payroll for next year. And they're going to be into the second apron. And they have a really important free agent in Tide Jerome. And they also have Sam Merrill, who is, who is, you know, not nothing. The chances of them resigning both are hard to see. You know, you never know.

You don't want to make it something. Listen, they've got eight players under contract. right now. And they're at $210 million. And the second apron is $212.9. And that's not counting Dean Wade's $6.5 million, which they will be pushing up. Which they will be.

They probably try to extend them. Actually, it includes most of, it includes most of it. I think, I think the only a couple million of that is non-guaranteed. But still, you're talking about nine players then and Craig Porter who I assume they'll also be picking up his contract is corner to Bobby's stuff looks like about a million guaranteed so um if you put

those guys both in there you got 10 players you're already into the second apron that's before you're paying tie jerome who's going to be a you know guy who's going to be looking for an eight figure per year contract. Sam Merrill, who is on a minimum and certainly could get a raise. Like, if you resign those guys, which just a matter how much money Dan Gilbert wants to spend, he's got money to spend, we're still talking about becoming an extraordinarily expensive team, unless you start subtracting other pieces, which is the other thing that the Kaz could try to do.

Yeah. So, look, there's people in their organization who've said to me, we have absolutely, we absolutely We're so excited that we gave Evan this contract and he's going to be an all-MBA player and a defensive player of the year maybe, but this bonus could cost us a player. That's just, you know, it's just, you know, I'm not sure what the tie Jerome market's going to be. You know, I've I've talked to some teams who are like, oh, because I, because you know, the mid-level exception is a full mid-level, the non-taxpayer mid-level, is 14 million. and not that many teams are going to have that because if you spend that old thing, you can't go into the first apron.

And there's a sort of a narrow... But some well. But some well, yes, for sure. Well, and look, this is where... This is the other side of the DeAndre Hunter trade. The DeAndre Hunter trade added a lot of money to the books for the calves. And DeAndre Hunter's a good player, but it made them a lot more expensive in these out years.

And look, the other thing is, too, like, the Isaac Coral contract is also a pretty hefty contract for a guy that's their eighth or ninth best player. So one way or the other, there's going to be some decisions that the Cavs have to make this summer. And again, Evans earned it. He's probably going to be a second team NBA player too. So he's going to get this money one way or the other. But, I mean, it's going to cost the Cavs a lot of Dan Gilbert dollars. And it's going to cause some real decision making about what they're trying to do.

And look, we might see how the things go over the next month and a half for this team, too. And that could help dictate how some of this goes, depending on how guys play and how this looks and what it is. The Cavs decide they need to prioritize. So Mowgli had a good game in game two against the heat on Wednesday. He had 20 points, had a couple of coast-to-coast plays where he was, you know, either got a rebound or picked up a loose ball or whatever and really showed, you know, really showed off an aggression that he had. had also hit three-threes in that game, his outside shots better. You know, something, we haven't talked about the Cats series much, but just since I've been on it, and since we're waiting for McMahon, I'll just say this.

Donovan Mitchell got a lot of, we talked a lot about him. We got a lot of credit this year for taking a step back, fewer minutes, fewer shots, opening up space for Daria Scarland, who had an All-Star season, opening up space for Evan, probably. But when the chips are down, he's still a superstar, and he had 30 points in both the first game one in game two. And in game two, he had 17 in the fourth quarter when the heat were making a big comeback. It cut the lead from 19 down to two.

So lest you think that Donovan Mitchell, he's not got, sits still in the tank. The issue with Donovan has always been the consistency. He was consistently taken apart the Miami Heat in the fourth quarter of that game, too, when it certainly looked like the heat were going to have a chance to do what the Thunder did to the Grizzlies. tonight. And obviously, if the Cavs had lost that game, obviously, they were, there were still going to be heavy favorites to win the series, but it wouldn't have exactly looked great for the calves after they had kind of a middling performance in game one. Then they had this incredible first half of game, too, looked like they were going to blow the heat out of the water. But then

Donovan Mitchell just took over and made shot after shot after shot in the fourth quarter and just iced the game away. And that's why, you know, for his great years, Darius Carlin had, his great years Evan Mowgli had. There's a reason why Donovan Mitchell was the one getting MVP votes and the reason why he was the one who was in contention for a first team all NBA spot. It's because if you're around the calves at all, which I have been and you have been, Donovan Mitchell is the straw that stirs a drink for that team on every level. And you saw it in every way in the fourth quarter of that game. And this team is going to go. Obviously, Evan Moby's great. Garland's great. Kenny Hickson, said a great job. By the way, the Kenny Hickinson.

face at Pat Freyer on the challenge on the Tyler Hero foul. Yeah, if you saw that on social media. It was one of the moments of the season. It was unbelievable. It was a call in the last minute of the game and was over possession. And Kenny was incredulous that they had missed the call. And I don't know if he saw the replay and knew what he was going to do or his bench yelled to him. Look like his bench.

It looked like he was incredulous at the call. And it sounded like his bench informed him. that he was going to win the challenge. And he gave a face like a, I don't even know what, but it was perfect. And then naturally he won the challenge, which made it the perfect means. He's a very nice guy,

but at the end of the day, he is, you know, from Long Island. So his New Yorker came out in that moment. He's got a lot of New York in him. And there was a lot of New York in that face and that mannerism.

And it was, as somebody who spent a lot of time in New York, it was great. More Hoop Collective Podcast. after this. Well, he's not always there when you call, but he's always on time. Here's our man,

Ban McMahon, beaming in from Memphis exactly at the time of the podcast. Only took him, only took him two hours to get through his work post-game. Dude. Record time.

Record time for McMann. Howdy partners. Screw you, Bon, Tims. Here we go. It's been 30 minutes. It's been 30 minutes since the post-game availability's wrapped up.

That's the man. I'm just saying, I was hustling, bustling, baby. The game ended and I said, yeah, we're going to start the pot around 230. And here it is coming up on 230. And here you are listening to you yap like a buffoon for about five minutes here. You just, you just got signed up. Also, don't blame me, blame Tumbles.

By the way, by the way, here's something from the... Shout out to Teddy Tumbles, big fan of the pot. Well, and listen, Teddy, it tells me... This is where I have to step in and say he's talking about Matt Tumbles. and the head of the PR the PR guy for the Yeah, he's a friend of the pod

Good guy. Yeah, so the fan of the pod. So while Royce Young is chief of propaganda, he is like senior vice president of propaganda. His son, Teddy, big friend at the pod, was wearing his blue Isaiah Joe jersey during game two and tells me they are undefeated when he wears that jersey. Well, with all due respect,

they've only lost about six games all year. So it's not, Not, you know, I mean, you know, no offense. I would like to know how many jerseys Teddy has. That's what I talked to Teddy. There's probably some other guys. That's undefeated in. There's always some other jerseys.

He's worn their undefeated in as well. Well, I'll tell you what, they're undefeated when they trail by 26 and a half time in playoff games this year. That is true. Or in playoff games, period. And I think that will continue. All right, McMahon, give us the report from Memphis. We haven't talked about the game at all.

We've held off to wait for you. Wait for you. I mean, pretty simple. The Grizzlies couldn't miss. until they were missing their superstar. John Morant goes out. They take a 29-point lead on the very next possession. Went out with a pretty scary fall.

Scotty Piven, Jr., who was on fire in the first half, is on a fast break. Lou Dohertson pursuit. He tosses it back to Jha. Jah goes up for what, you know, might have been a highlight. Dort kind of swipes at the ball, accidentally undercuts.

Jod, jaw fell. All we know is it is a hip injury. You know, we don't know severity. We don't know, I mean, to almost say he didn't even know which hip it was. But Jal was on crutches when he got back out there finally. Look, they're down three-oh, they're done. Sorry, I hope Jaws okay. I hope Jaws okay.

I hope so, too. The odds of him playing Saturday in an afternoon game or awfully slim, I would think. He's not going to play in their season. It's over. And that's not that John Moran is quitting or something. He just, it's not going to be ready to go. He was on crutches when he hobbled out to the tunnel in the fourth quarter. And then, listen, like, they didn't have Jha.

They didn't have any hope in the second half to do anything offensively. They had more turnovers than buckets by a fairly wide margin in the second half. 13 turnovers, 9 of 36 from the floor. And then the thunder, after not being able to hit anything, anything, especially Chad Holmgren, Holmgren had one point in the first half. As he said, it was an S-storm by him in the first half. And then, Dachan-Haw calls-old.

Hold on, time out. Did he say that on the mic? Did he use the S-S-S-I word on the record? If you spell out the whole thing, then you can't, like, you might as well cuss. Okay. Just, I'm going somewhere with this. Did he say the word on the record?

The reason that's funny, you didn't hear this, because in the post-game interview with TNT, he said damn and then apologized for his language. Well, he didn't apologize. He apologized. He apologized for the actual S-storm of the first half in a way. It's funny that, you know, he says damn and then, oh, I'm sorry. You know, but then, you know, goes into the press conference and is just firing expletives. Well, anyways, he was firing threes in the third quarter.

The man had 16. was good job. Third quarter. Dagon, I don't call to play for him coming right out of half. knocked that down, then he caught fire later in that core. And dude, Alex Caruso, oh my God. Well, yeah, you could talk about that. What a defensive, like obviously the whole Thunder team, the second half was a defensive

masterpiece, but Caruso was just wreaking havoc all over the place. All you need to know about the Thunder defense is that there's times when they take Shea Gildes-Alexander out of the game for defensive purposes. and he would be a top two defender on almost every team in the league. And he's not a top six defender on this team. Right, because he's the quote unquote, like it's funny to me, like the Grizzlies at times targeted him down the stretch of this game.

And it's laughable like to target him. Well, they've happened a lot. Because he had five fouls. Well, you're right. But like Shay will tell you, he gets targeted a lot defensive. It's a couple reasons. One, because who the hell else you're going to go at?

Exactly. You know, you're trying to, trying to make him, work on that. And let me just read. I'm still locked out of slack despite my best efforts, but I do. Me too, buddy. Old Stats Williams, though, fired me some emails and man, is he good. Fourth quarter, with Caruso, Dort, and Holgren, all on the floor, which was seven minutes of the quarter, the grizzies were one of 12 from the floor, O of seven on threes, and had four turnovers, no assists. Lou Dort.

Dort in this game, according to Genius IQ, which apparently is what we're calling Second Spectrum these days, I guess they got their master's degree or some crap. But according to Genius IQ, the Grizzies were 0 of 13 when Dort was the closest defender in game

three. The most field goal attempts defended without a single bucket by a defender in a playoff game since player tracking began in 2013. and 14. And Dorrit wasn't their best defender in this game. Caruso, I'm not like, dude, Caruso was all over the place. And poor, like Scotty Piven Jr. had 23 points in the first half. Was hitting everything. Five of a six and three. He couldn't do anything in the second half. Like, Cason Wallace was all over him. And then he's trying to guard Shea on the other. By the way,

She has not had a good shooting game in the series. And they're about to close this thing now. I would say he's been below. Now, keep in mind, his standard is very high. Yeah. He's been below. He's been below average. He's been below average. He was 10 of 26 in this game. He came into the first two games he shot 33% combined.

So I don't think that improved that much. He's definitely under 40%. And he's averaging 24 points. Again, he had 31 tonight, which seems good, but that's below his average. So they're up three. They're up 3-0 when Shea hasn't even been average yet, much less good. Jaylon Williams has been good.

Chet Hungman in the second half was unbelievable. But again, you know, Caruso, the way he put it was defenses are superpower. And that superpower was on full blast in the second half. And look, man, I'll give the Grizzies credit. Like they easily could have come out. And by the way, there's a bunch of empty seats. It was nowhere close to a sellout. Like, you know, the odds of them making a series out of this were awfully slim coming into tonight.

But they came out and had energy. They were hooping. Showed a lot of pride. Shooting the hell out of the ball in the first half. Jaw went out and that just like popped the balloon. But then, you know, the grizzies still had to play. Like they came back from 29 points down, 26 in the second half. Yeah, you may say to yourself, how does a team blow a 30-point?

lead. And it's pretty simple. They literally couldn't make a shot and the Grisly and the Thunder were making every shot. They couldn't make a shot and on way too many possessions, they couldn't get a shot because it's turnover after turnover after turnover, which the Thunder forced more turnovers than anybody in the league. And when they do force turnovers, it's death because they're so damn good at converting steals into transition buckets on the other end. There was a lot of that. But, you know, this is like, I mean, the Thunder have had one awful half. And in the other five halves of this series, they have outscored the Grizzlies by 102 points. Well, and listen, it's worth pointing out yet again that the Chicago Bulls traded Alex Caruso this past summer for Josh Giddy.

It got nothing else in the trade. And Josh Giddy was so bad in the playoffs last year after the whole year being defended as, as a guy who was a core piece for the Thunder going forward, that he was benched and barely was playing. And then he shipped to Chicago for a guy who in just the first couple games of this series has showed why he is vastly more impactful player when the games really matter and was absolutely obliterating the Grizzlies in the second half of this game, just literally taking the ball away from Scotty Pippin and Desmond Bain

and these guys down the stretch. creating fast-bring layups all over the place. Stole the ball right out of Jared Jackson's hands on a drive. He's guarding Jared Jackson Jr. in the post. I mean, he was everywhere as a one-man wrecking crew. He's their best defender on Jaron Jackson Jr. And, you know, a lot of it is, as he says,

doing the work early, not let him get to spots. But, like, Jaron can't, you, like, you're taking a pretty big risk to dribble the ball. It's unbelievable. By the way, his hands are so strong. His hands are so strong and so fast. And I'm telling you that. He might not have the best hands defensively on the team.

Casein Wallace's hands are unreal. The fourth quarter was like just a defensive clinic by Caruso in particular. But like I can't tell you how good Casein Wallace is for a second year. He's awesome. He's awesome to. He was a one and done guy on the defensive end. He's awesome too. But it was just a starkest reminder sitting here watching this game of just

the malpractice for the bulls that that trade was. And the fact that there's a guy in this contract that should have had immense value and they did not capitalize on it. And we said it the moment the trade was made, it was a coup for the thunder. And you look at where this team is at and how incredible their defense is and the fact that they can roll them out there for 22, 23 minutes. And they don't have to tax them minutes wise. And you can go out there and play at max effort and do everything.

thing needed them to do. I mean, it's one of many reasons why they should be the heavy favorites to get out of the West. The second half, Memphis, 9 of 36 shooting, 3 of 20 on threes, 13 turnovers. Yeah, I have to go on 11 of 22

on threes in the first half. And by the way, you know, Jalen Williams got, I don't know if he got a lot of heat, but like he did not have a good playoffs last year. You know, especially in the second round.

He's having a hell of the playoffs this year. I scored 20 plus, you know, 20, 24, 26, shot better than 50% from the floor. You probably talked to him about this, McMahon. He was, you know, he seems like a mild-mannered guy.

He really, really suffered, like, personally. Really took a lot of blame on himself. Yeah. And really tried to go into last summer. and really try to examine what happened. And like, you know, I remember him talking about this at Media Day. I mean, obviously, that's a long time ago.

But he told his coaches, like, show me, give me the bad film. Show me the bad play. Show me the worst of the worst. Do not hide it from me. Show me where I messed up. Yeah. And so he's obviously had a great year, All-Star, you know, decent chance to be on the All-MBA team, going to get a big country.

He's got a really good chance. going to get a big contract. Yeah, he's going to get a big contract. Like, he's had a great year. But there's no doubt the mindset he's had already in the playoffs. He's like, this is not, you know, who knows what will happen, but he's doing everything he can to make sure that doesn't repeat. And the whole season was for him about building up to put himself in a position where he could get it done in the playoffs this year.

And, you know, Dagonauts talked a lot about kind of appreciating the way that J. of pours himself into the developmental process, even though this is the year that he became an all-star. But things like his efficiency dipped a little bit, but just like he was really kind of putting it on himself, hey, it's not about efficiency. It's about being able to, you know, attack gaps that he might have avoided or, you know, put himself in position.

We're like, hey, against playoff defenses, you're going to have to make plays in smaller spaces sometimes. And so, you know, you're going to have to be able to finish through contact. all that kind of stuff. And so that's something that was really a point of emphasis for him throughout this year. And again, it's not just a scoring efficiency. He's doing everything right now. I mean, he's rebounded.

He's had five plus assists in all these games. He's, I mean, he's, it won't be all defense because he's like their fourth or fifth best defender, but he's a damn good defensive player. I do also think getting Caruso, So Wallace continuing to get better and better where they can, you know, they can rely on him more. Dort, you know, Dort finished fourth and defense player of the year voting. He'll be first team all defense, as he should be, as he should have been before. J. Deb doesn't have to, like last year he had to guard Kyrie for the entire series.

He's going to take the best, you know, the second best player on the other team. Sometimes we didn't have to do it for 40 minutes a night anymore. I think that really is going to help him throughout these playoffs on the other end of the floor. No question. And it has to because there's a reason we've talked about him all season. Like he's got to be really good on offense for them to win the title. You need to have a second perimeter guy that you can really count on. You know, like Luca and Kyrie last year for Dallas, Tatum and Jalen Brown for Boston.

Like you go down the line. Yeah, Chad Holmgren's really good. but like you need to have that second perimeter guy that you can count on to create shots and to score and to be a guy to take some of the burden off of Shea. And if Jalen plays like he has the first three games for the next two months, the Thunder are going to be feeling pretty good about their chances. And now Chet will tell you, though, that when he's playing with Hartenstein, he's a wing offensively.

That is true. And I'm a huge Chet fan, but he's not running the point. No, you're right. In terms of dribble creators, that's what I'm talking about. They've got one of probably the best in the league right now. I'm going to say one of the two best. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, the guy who had the best season is a dribble creator this year. Him and Luke are the two best in the league.

Shea, obviously I'm talking about. And then Jaylon Williams, man, he's a very, very, he's an all-star caliber, dribble creator, I would say. I mean, look, he's an easy pick for all-MBA for me this year. And that's because he's a tremendous two-way player. And, you know, this team is a super young team, right? So, like, they're doing all this stuff ahead of schedule. And, you know, it's a huge opportunity for them. And all you can do is keep doing what they've been doing since October,

which is just step up and keep performing night after night. It's why they went 68 and 14. It's why they're up 3-0 in the series. It's why they're the heavy favorites to win the West. and, you know, he's delivering on every bit of it. Their demeanor really never changed. It wasn't like they, like, bored all their energy into, like, trying to make this comeback. They just were methodical about it.

Yeah, they just, like, it's one way to put yourself in position to make this kind of comeback as if the other team just can't score. And that's what the second app was. And the job thing, the job thing really just did suck the life out of it. You could even feel it just watching it. It's just completely. suck the life out of the building too. And he limped out there.

Like he was down for a while. He got help to his feet. Then he limped out to the free throw line to take his free throws to give him a, you know, because if you don't, you're out for the game for sure. But he knew. He knew he was out when he walked. Like he hobbled off the floor. And as he's entering the tunnel, he's like taking his jersey off.

Like he knew he was done. And when, you know, his teammates obviously knew he was done then. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, he was playing. well, he had 15 points and five assists in 16 minutes. And yeah, it was just talk about a deflating situation. And they struggled to get the ball up the floor without him, which is a lot of not having jaw and also a lot of dealing with the best defense by a wide margin in the NBA.

Those guys for the thunder are just menaces. You know, it's like Kenny Akin, Agen said, playing against him is like playing at seven pit bulls. He said seven, not five, seven. All right. Well, it's gone late enough. Jackson's got a, I'm just getting warmed up, fellas. I know. Sorry, you were part-time on this one.

Yeah, let's type in fingers. They should be a little bit quicker. I still get full-time pay, right? You got it. Your pay will remain unchanged. All right. Thank you to Jackson for staying up so late. We're setting an impossible standard here.

Thank you to McMahon for working overtime. Thank you to Bontems. Thank you for watching, listening to the Hoop Collective. we will talk to you next week. Adios amigos.