Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - NBA Eastern Conference Win Total Reaction

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to ESPN Bet’s NBA Eastern Conference win totals for the upcoming season. The guys discuss expectations across the conference, who will have a rebound season and the teams you need to be paying more attention to. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hooke Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing at a time that is not exactly recent. Let's just be honest.

It's July. It's August. We're just putting some stuff in, uh, some people are going on vacation. Joining me from Los Angeles, California, where he's still working is Timbontemps. Hello, everybody. Joining us from the Pacific Northwest at a beautiful cabin in the woods. It's Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners did some bioluminescent kayaking the night before we recorded this.

So not a whole lot of sleep. That sounds like it could have been hallucinogenic aided. No, it could have been. It was not. I did learn that there are some mushrooms that have bioluminescence in them, actually. And one of which is even edible and not of the hallucinogenic kind. also learned that the back seat of the kayak, the little tandem kayaks where you control the rudders,

six foot four doesn't fit in that real well. So we had to have a, we had to have a mid-ride shift. I see. Was there any, were there any bodies lost over the edge on the mid-ride shift? That's the key. Nobody's lost,

but one of my 12-year-olds learned several new words. Actually, he knows them all. He just heard, he heard creative uses. I bet he didn't learn them. All right. So today we are going to take a look at the ESPN. Now that the 90-something percent of the off-season has been completed, the over-under win totals are updated by ESPN bet. And we're going to take a look at the Eastern Conference and see how we think it's going to shape up based on the way ESPN bet sees it. It's always a fun thing we do every year. So we'll start today with the Eastern Conference. And we're just going to go straight down alphabetical order. I think that's the best way to go. So we'll start with the Boston Celtics. On temps, the Boston Celtics over under for this upcoming season, the expectations that Jason Tatum will be out for the entire year.

They traded away. Some key players drew holiday at Chris Apzborzingis. Jalen Brown has the offseason knee surgery. It's 43 and a half. I know Brad Stevens, their team president, said, you know, recently when he gave an offseason update on their team, he said we're still a playoff team. And I think that's true because Eastern Conference is not super deep. And this over-under implies that the ESPN bet believes that they are still a playoff team without Jason Tate. Not to be, not to poke at you a bit.

But if we're going an alphabetical order, I think we skipped a team in Atlanta. Oh, the Atlanta Hawks. Why? You can do Boston first. I mean, you are correct. That is. Okay. I am correct.

A comes before B. I am aware. No, I see what he did. Jackson, what did you do? No, Jackson gave us Atlanta by division. It was my fault. Jackson hasn't taken an alphabetical order by division in the- I accept full responsibility.

And because of that, I want to be held accountable. And Jackson, I would request that you do not edit that out. Well, also, to make it easier, let's go alphabetic by division, because there's no way we can put these now on the fly. Jackson, just with some technological wizardry. you immediately fixed it. So now it's flip. We're going to start with the Celtics and then we're going to do the Hawks.

Yeah, that's fine. So yeah, I'm doing some quick math here. So Boston's what? One, two, three, four, five. Yeah, so they're tied for six with another team we'll get to later. We're figuring out alphabetical order and counting on the flights is getting off to a warning. I just wanted to make a quick look at where they sit. It's early on the West Coast.

Look, the Celtics. The Celtics are in a weird spot, obviously, because they still do have a couple of really good players. And then they also have some fairly giant holes on their roster. I mean, right now, their center rotation is Xavier Tillman, Luke Garza, and Nemes Ceda, which is a bit of a drop-off from Chris Dasperzegger and Al Horford and Luke Cornett, all of whom are going to be playing elsewhere next season. We think for Horford. I mean, Celtics have said, Horford's not going to.

be in Boston. So it's a matter of where we think he's playing all the by this time I think might be wrapped up. But anyways, go on. But yeah, I mean, if I had to, if I had to make a bet on the Celtics one way or the other, I would probably bet the under because they're one, Jalen Brown and or Al Horford, Jalen Brown or Derek White injury away from just not having very much firepower on the court at all. And they have a lot of young players who I think they're going to be playing a lot of minutes and we're not going to see Jason Tatum this year. I could certainly see this being some version of a, uh, you know, a pause for the franchise overall. I think they're probably going to try to save more money. Right now, the current just into the second apron. So over or under?

Well, I said under. Oh, sorry. Yeah, no, I think there's enough reasons to think that they're going to go the other way. They could, you know, Jalen Brown. and Derek White could play any games and be awesome and they could, you know, maybe win 45, 46 games. But I think it's more likely that they have some injuries. They play a lot of these young guys, a lot of minutes, and they're probably still in the play in anyway because I don't really know if it's possible to get into the bottom five of the east, given how bad some of these teams are going to be. But I think it's more likely they're under 500. Yeah, I'll take the under, and I will take it in part because the Celtics have another very tough opponent that will be on their schedule every single night, and that's human nature.

These are guys who are, guys who have won a championship, guys who are accustomed to competing for a championship, and guys who are showing up a training camp fully aware that there is no way in hell. They're going to have that opportunity this season. they'll completely understand that this is a gap year. And I just think that's going to be tough to get amped up and to maintain their focus for 82 games,

knowing that this is a season that ultimately is going to lead to nowhere. Yeah. So the thing about, and this is going to be repeating itself as we talk about this, Bond tennis just mentioned it, there are some teams in the East that are just, week. And so you're going to get some wins, whether you, whether you are relative or not. I suspect that Jalen Brown, assuming his knee is okay, is going to have a massive season. And I think he's going to just carry them to a bunch of wins. I think he's going to see as an opportunity this year to

like show everybody what he can do. And I agree that they're probably not going to have enough. but I think that he is going to be a difference maker in a lot of games. So I'm actually inclined to nose over because you're going to see Jalen Brown. I expect a huge year from Jalen Brown. I will advise my friends who ask me about fantasy stuff to prioritize getting Jalen Brown this year. Again, assuming he looks okay in the preseason, you know, I don't know if he's even good 100% be able to start right there because, you know, as you know, I believe there's no such things of minor knee injury.

Okay, moving on. Let's go back to the A, the Atlanta Hawks, who had a huge offseason. In terms of value out versus value in, they traded Terrence Mann, one net first round pick, and I think one or two seconds. And they ended up bringing back Chris Epps, Porzingis, Nikiel Alexander Walker, Luke Kinard, and that 2026 Unprotected First that they got in that draft night deal where they moved back 10 spots. in the draft. Which might be the most valuable thing they added. They added two really solid starters. Now, that's not fair because they, like to get, uh,

Nikiel Alexander Walker, they also used an existing trade exception. So it's, I'm not given the whole landscape there, but from what they traded out to what they brought in, um, they've really significantly upgraded and their wind total, um, reflects it, uh, McMahon 46 and a half is what ESPN bet says is the, over under for the Atlanta Hawks. Yeah, and I think Atlanta had one of the best off seasons, arguably the best off season in the Eastern Conference.

I'm trying to think where their argument would be. I'm going to say they had the best off season in the Eastern Conference. Are they seven wins better than last season? Look, obviously, poor Zingis' health is going to be a major factor here. But I do think that over the course of a couple of years, they've done a phenomenal job of putting a cast around Trey Young that, you know, it's not just a supporting cast, but it's a cast that can protect him on the defensive end. And Trey Young, for his defensive flaws,

is still one of the best offensive engines in the league. I would trend over on this one. Yeah, I'm going to go over to, there are some questions here health-wise. Let's see where Trey Young's Achilles is at this year. The Achilles 1090s. He had a lot of last year, I think, is a cause for concern. You know, they are going to be relying on some young players. We'll see how they developed.

Zachary Ries Cheshay. Will he take a step forward in his second year? Can Jalen Johnson stay healthy? He is a third player, but he has had some injury issues. Chris Asperzingia obviously has had his fair share of injury issues. He's got a clean bill of health after the stuff he had in the spring. And by all accounts are going to play in Eurobasket and Hawks feel good about where he's at. So, you know, so that's all there.

I'm going to take the over because of what we talked about with Boston. There's a lot of wins to be had in the East. I think the Hawks are going to be a top four team in the east. East. I don't think the fourth team in the East is going to weigh 45 or 44 wins. So I will take the over there with, you know, with the injury question still in mind. Yeah, I'm going to take the over. I was going to point out, in case you forgot about Jalen Johnson, he averaged 1910 and 5 last year on 50% shooting before he hurt his shoulder. He only played 36 games. And as you pointed out, he has been, he's had injuries. He's only averaged 46 games the last two years. But this is a major uprising

player there. So you're almost bringing him back. He almost feels like a little bit of a new player as well, but obviously the health. Another thing to watch with them is whether or not they get Tray Young into an extension. They're not going to give him a max extension. So will he accept something less than that? We'll see.

That'll be something that'll be a factor going into the season. But I'm also going to go over you know, Dyson Daniels, another guy that got to get signed. Obviously had a breakout year last year. Okay. Back to alphabetical order. The Brooklyn Nets.

We'll start with you, Bontemps. The Nets over under is 21 and a half. We don't know whether they're going to have Cam Thomas, though I feel like one way or another, he's going to end up staying in a Nets uniform. He is obviously a key scorer for them. They've got a metric ton of rookies, five first round picks. I am not going to get aggregated again. over what people are saying about their first round picks.

I will just say that in Summer League, their most impressive young player in many cases was Drew Timmy. Shout out, Pierce High. Was not one of their first round picks, but 21 and a half, Bontemps. Yeah, this one is tough because the Nets obviously are going to be bad. The question of how bad are they going to be. I will take the under,

simply for what you just said. They're going to be playing a ton of rookies, a ton of minutes. A lot of these rookies are interesting players, but there are a lot of ball handlers who are not good shooters. They're going to be playing a lot of young guards in general, which is a...

That's how you lose in the NBA, young guards. Oh, yeah. Especially mediocre young guards. Well, Yeager Dem, in their eighth overall pick, I'm sure he'll be starting a point guard. I'm sure he's going to have the ball in his hands a ton. That is going to be. be good for his development and it's going to be good for losing games and trying to get a top

five pick, which they really need to do in this year's draft. Cam Thomas will be back. I'm almost certain it will be on the qualifying offer at some point. If that is the case, if Cam Thomas comes back on the qualifying offer, I'm also going to suggest to my friends who play, especially I have some friends who have like have points only leagues. I was going to say it as long as two-goal percentage and part of it. Cam Thomas on the qualifier on a bad team, get that gentleman on your fantasy teams. No, so that I will take the under. It would not shock me if they go over. Obviously, Jordy Hernandez, Fernandez did a tremendous job last year and showed he can really coach. But, you know, this team is, this team has to be in the top five next year. I suspect this

year is going to go like Utah did last year where they are going to do everything they can to make sure that they are, if not the worst record in the league right there instead of being somewhere in the middle of the lottery like they were this year. Yeah, I'm going under because it better be. And the Utah comparison to me is exactly right, right down to Jordy Fernandez has already proven that he can coach. As a matter of fact, he's proven that he can coach a little bit too well for where the Brooklyn Nets are in their rebuild. Just like Will Hardy did in Utah, you've got to make sure that he's not capable or not allowed in maybe some cases of putting lineups out there that can actually win games. It's just where they are. They don't have a player to build around.

They've got to find that guy. Michael Porter Jr. He's just arrived in town. He's very excited. They've got to find that guy in the draft. By the way, did you see the Nets posted a video of Michael Porter coming to their practice facility for the first time, which is a great practice facility in Brooklyn.

It's got a great view of the Manhattan skyline. And did you guys see this video? No. So Porter comes in and, you know, it's like it's a team propaganda video. They're like, you know, he is properly like impressed with their practice facility. And he's like, wow, you guys got two courts, which was more of a commentary on the Nuggets who have sort of this antiquated facility that's like on the fourth floor of the ball arena. Exactly. That's interesting.

So I don't think, like he, I don't think he was meaning to take a shot at the nuggets. He's never been. Yeah, listen. I know. He's never seen a practice facility with two quarters. I'm just kidding. I'm sure he's seen. I'm just saying that's what he wants to say.

That's what he said. Yeah. No, it's like the Rockets when they opened there last year, they went from. having just this little one court in the arena to this palace of a practice facility. Yeah. So I don't, we don't need to discuss this just a whole lot. But they'll be bad. And again, the other thing I would say, it better be really bad now and or really lucky in the lottery because those 27, that 27 draft, guess what?

Oh, the Rockets still have swap rights. Yeah. Their plan when they made the trade last summer was to get control of their picks for two years. years. And as soon as they did that, it was pretty obvious. They were going to intend to be bad for two years. And considering that they haven't even spent all their cap space as of the recording of this particular podcast indicates that that intends to be. So I think the under, and if they go over 21 and a half, we'll congratulate them, but it will be by accident. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right, the Charlotte Hornets, 24 and a half,

McMahon. They are thriving. My friends in Charlotte are looking. And I mean, seriously, I'm not, this is not ironically, they are looking for summer league champions gear. They are desperate. I have a, I have a good friend in Charlotte who has, his company has season tickets in the fifth row. And he loves going to the games, but he's really trying to make his son a, a Shornets fan, and it's a hard sell. So he is hoping that they improve. But 24 and a half, they have, you know, they have added to their roster. a little bit, but they are excited about their draft. Obviously, Connoepple had a big summer league. My son went to a... Liam McNeely, another brief Pierce product? They are very excited about having gotten Liam McNeely with a 29th pick,

which they got from the Mark Williams trade. My son went to a Creighton basketball camp. Yes. And he was very excited that Ryan Colchbrenner came back. Okay. attended the camp. As a newly crowned Summer League champion. So, but anyway, McMahon, 24 and a half for the Charlotte Hornets. Tough one. I did,

I did realize after our last pod, we did not mention the Charlotte Hornets as a potential option or as an option for Chris Paul, which they were, but Chris Paul wanted to be a father at home, not a babysitter in his hometown. And the Charlotte Hornets are a team that's desperately in need of babysitting. That's why, despite having one of the, an incredible talent in, uh, in, uh, Leangelo ball is the face of the franchise. You're sitting there looking at an over under 24 and a half. What I'm saying? It's a Le Angelo ball. It's early. Lamello. God, it's early on the West Coast. Well, Le Angelo ball, I'm to, you know, hey, his, his music plays of the games. God. I was like, it's not a lot so cell. Anyways, Lamello. Anyways, Lamello.

And I've had my moments discussing Lamello, and I don't think he's proven me wrong to this point. I just feel like the Hornets are a franchise in search of an identity. And I don't think Lamello is going to be part of that long-term identity. So I guess it's a long-winded way of saying 24 and a half feels about right for me. I'll take the over because I think it's going to be hard not to win more than that in the East. They have any kind of relative health. I'm going to take the under because they like the Celtics. basically have no centers on their roster.

I think Ryan Coprenner might start, because I think the only centers they have are he and Mason Plumlee at the moment. And I just, I think this team in general, like, let's see if Lamello can play more than 45 games. He again missed a bunch of games last year. You know, they still feel like they're trying to get, you know, obviously we're one of these teams that fell in the lottery,

some that was hoping to jump up all the way. I do like Khan, but we're hoping to get Cooper flag or, someone like that in the draft. So yeah, I will reluctantly take the under because 24 and a half, I think is a very good, very good number. But they do still feel like they're at the start of whatever they're trying to do, which, you know, I think to your point, McMahon, one of the more interesting things to look at going forward is sort of what is the lamello ball situation in Charlotte going to be. And I think, you know, as this year plays out, that will be something will begin to probably start to figure out because if, let's say, they do win 30-something games and Lamello

plays 65-70 games and is good and healthy, that'll look one way. If it's another 45-game season for him and they win 20 games, it might look a different way. I think if Lamello plays really well early in the season, it could be an interest in trade deadline. Lamello has averaged 35 games played over the last three years. Now, I recognize that there was some draft positioning, which happened again this last year. I mean, they lost. 12 with their last 13 games. You know, sometimes you have teams that are like,

you know, try to build up, you know, going into next year, like we'll talk about Toronto, about their finish. It was not a strong finish. And Brandon Miller only played 27 games last year.

He looked very good in those 27 games. We played 27 games. So they're going to still take it in the teeth a lot. I tend to think they might slightly go over 24 and a half. But it's so, their talent, if they're fully healthy, dictates,

they probably should win some home games at least. But again, it's hard to bank on the Mello when he just can't stay on the court. It's hard to bank on him when he's on the court too. Well, he's tough to watch, man. I mean, the 32-foot one-legged, you know, threes, like. Well, I know that. And fouling out when you don't guard anybody. I know.

Charles Lee was trying to bring a certain style of play this last season. And at times it felt like it was. leaning into some of Lamello's bad habits. At times. He didn't play that many games, but there was a few times when I watched them, and I was just like, I, I, this is, it's, it's a tough watch at times. Obviously, when he gets hot, it's, but. He's an extraordinary talent.

He might end up having a heck of an NBA career. I don't think it'll be in Charlotte. Well, you know, you, you, before last season, I was kind of bullish on Lamello. And I think the three of us got a little minor back and forth about it, where I was sort of saying, I think he can do better. His performance last year did not help that position. Let's just put it that way. So I'm going to take a step back from that,

even though I think that their talent dictates that they're more than a 24-win team. All right, Chicago Bulls, one of our favorites. Apology accepted. Apology accepted. One of our favorite teams to discuss their competence. 32 and a half, Bontems. Yeah, I'm taking the under.

I think the Bulls are going to be looking to be pretty bad this year. They never do that, though. Well, again, they could maybe get the 10 seed with 32 wins in the East. Oh, my God. That's a sad statement that I can't dispute. I just think it's going to be hard for them to get a lot of wins with the team that they have. Like, there's not a lot of talent on this roster.

You know, Josh Giddy, we assume we'll get extended at some point and be in Chicago. We'll see if he and Kobe White will assume he will be on the team. We'll see if Kobe White makes it on the team through the whole year. He's going to be a free agent next summer. He will not be extended because he's making too little money to get extended. The number I think that he would take. So I just think that in general, the Bulls will try to be competitive, as you said, McMahon, that tends to be what they do.

I just don't think that with the team they've got and probably playing Modis Bezell is a ton of minutes, probably playing Noah Essend gay, their first round picked this year, a good amount of minutes. If Nick Vucevic misses any time at all, they don't really have any death behind him. I could go either way on it, but I'm going to take the under because I just think they're probably going to end up being higher in the lottery

than maybe they normally intend to by default this season. They finished the season. They were winning games. After a Levine trade. Yeah, and Giddy was putting up numbers. So I hear which is like the roster is not an impressive roster, but they were able to win games with this core last year. You know, they went on that nice little stretch where, you know,

highlighted by Giddy hitting the half-core buzzer-beater to beat the Lakers. I don't think they're going to be anything close to a contender, but they were a 39 win team last year, and I don't think they'll be dropping off. Like, I don't think there's a major drop-off coming from that. The Bulls, Tom Tibadoe was the Bulls coach for five years. And I granted, I understood. that the team had a lot of talent, Derek Rose's MVP in there.

Those five years, they average 51 wins, okay? Tom Timitoe has now not been the coach for 10 seasons. These are the Bulls win totals for those 10 seasons. Now, some of these, actually, I'm just going to give the win-loss record because obviously there was some COVID-affected seasons. 42 and 40, 41 and 41, 27 and 55, 22 and 60, 22 and 43, 31, and 46, and 36. That was Billy Donovan's second year. This is the last three years.

40 and 42, 39 and 43, 39 and 43. That is hell. That is... Yeah, no, they're in progatory. That is not where you want to be. And there are maneuvers in the interim have neither leaned into getting farther down or leaned into getting much better.

And so they won't even... led Billy Donovan out of purgatory. Like he could have gone to the Knicks and they won't even let him go because they won't even admit their situation. So I'm afraid to say for Bulls fans, I agree with McMahon. It'll probably be over 32 because this team is addicted to this mediocrity. I will root for being wrong on that one because that will make me happy if they end up at 38 and 44. and ridiculous. But they refused to rebuild, right?

And I mean, that might be their best marketing slogan, refuse to rebuild. Like it's some source of pride. Seriously, like it's some source of pride. They are stuck on the mediocrity treadmill. They are the definition of a progatory team. And Jackson's better at looking things up than me. 17 and 13 since February 6, you know,

since the Levine trade for the Bulls, I was able to look up the final quarter was 15 and 6. And look, it's, you know, the final quarter of the season, that's when the tank of Paloosa is in full bloom. And so the Bulls are like racking up wins against some teams that are tanking. But the point is, the Bulls will rack up wins against teams that are tanking late in the season because they're too principled if you want to be polite about it or too proud or too dumb to rebuild. All I'm going to say is I read all of those numbers, all of those records.

And this offseason, the Bulls extended their front office. And Arturis, Kanishavish, their team president, asked the fans for patience. Okay. Next up, Cleveland Cavaliers, 55 and a half. That is the largest in the Eastern Conference. The Cavs coming off and offseason where they lost. Tide Jerome and Free Agency traded Isaac O'Coro or reserve for Lanzo Ball to be basically Tide Jerome's replacement and signed Larry Mance.

So they did some maneuvering on their bench. We'll bring back their whole starting unit, which is now going to be a lot more expensive because Donovan Mitchell's contract extension kicks in. Evan Mowgli's Supermax contract kicks in. And they are a second apron team. They're pretty much locked into this roster for this season. and 55 and a half they are the favorites right now, Bon Temps, to win the Eastern Conference.

Yeah, I'm taking the over. I think I still have some concerns about them as a playoff team, as we saw last year in the playoffs. However, they are built to win a ton of regular season games and the East stinks. So I think they're going to win a ton of regular season games, and I think they got a very good chance to be the one seat again. I'd also take the over.

I think that over-underers probably deflated because of the epic playoff disappointment that somebody here struggled to admit was actually a disappointment. They, you know, it's credit to them that. Are you talking about me because, of course, was a disappointment. No, no. When they were on the brink of elimination, we had some battles, Wendy. We don't need to revisit here. Let me just take my little cheap shot and we'll keep it moving.

They clearly lost to a better teeth. Okay. If we don't need to relitigate or revisit. Let me take my cheap shot and keep it moving. But I agree with Bonn-Tims as reluctantly as I utter that line, that, you know, they'll probably be the one seed in the Eastern Conference again, and they'll do win more than 55-and-half games. Yeah, look, they probably will not go as hard in the regular season this year.

And, you know, they had one of these seasons where there was a number of games that could have gone either way that went their way. And so 64 wins is hard to see repeated, but they're not, I don't. unless they're going to have significant injuries, I don't see them winning nine fewer games. So I'll go over on that. And again, as Bontem said,

and I predict we will be saying into next season frequently, their regular season output will not matter as to what, except what happens in their postseason. They have now graduated beyond where they can be congratulated for regular season success. But that's a good place to be. Sure. All right. Detroit Pistons,

one of last year's ascendant teams. Surprised us how good they were, no longer on the surprise. Generally kept their team in place. A big factor for them will be getting back Jaden Ivy. They did have some cap space that they had the option to maybe go out and big name shop, but Trajan Langdon, their team president, made it clear. His priority was, you know, keeping that team. you know, in place.

Anyway, McMahon, 45 and a half ESPN bet for the Pistons. I like them as a team that will continue to improve. They did lose some key bench pieces. You know, they lost Malik Beasley to his own stupidity. They lost Tim Hardaway, Jr., who they, you know, I'm essentially allowed to leave, sign a minimum with Denver. And then they lost Schrooter. Jay and Ivy, I think, more than makes up for the absence of Schroeder.

They brought in Duncan Robinson to replace Beasley as that volume, three-point shooter and the gravity that creates a space that creates for Cade Cunningham in particular. But I'm going to bet on continuing improvement from Cade Cunningham, who proved he is a legit face of a franchise last year. I think a Sending Superstars Fair. I think Jalen Duren is one of the most. dynamic young bigs in the league who is also going to continue to improve. Ivy was playing well before he went down. So I like this young core. I like the job J.B. Bickerstaff obviously

did last year. And I think they'll bump it up a few more. Asar Thompson, I think also is going to continue to improve. So I think they bump it up a few more wins. Yeah, I think this over under is right about in the right place. I'll be curious to see if they can push forward a bit or if they sort of have a reset season to some degree after jumping up as much as they did last year. Still has some concerns overall about their offense around Cade and just the overall setup of their team. But they have a young team that is going to be pushing to win games, and Cade is awfully good, and J.B. Bicker staff has shown an ability to help young teams continue to improve. So I'm going to take the over also simply for the fact that, again, when you look at this middle section of the east, there's not a lot of competition for them.

And I think it's hard to see them finishing out of the top six because of that. And so I'll take the over. Jade Nivey is one of the more interesting players to watch in the Eastern Conference last year. He really was looking like he was going to ramp up and be kind of the player that they thought they were drafting in the high in the lottery. And so what he is able to do, you know, they all, when he got injured last year, they didn't rule out that he could come back at the end of the season. In fact, they didn't even apply for a disabled player exception because they thought he was going to come back. But the point is, by the time the season starts, he should have been fully healthy for six months. So I expect him to really get going.

And he, he's a guy that if he, you know, continues elevating can really be a difference-making player because the, that backcourt play could be big. The other thing I'll say is they are a team that is upwardly mobile. If they've got a lot of flexibility and they have a draft capital, they are a team that could go hunting for a mid-season upgrade. Now, they have to pay these young guys. They already paid Kade. They have to sign Ivy.

They don't have to, but they extend Ivy. So they may be careful about that. But this contract they gave to Duncan Robinson is one of the more interesting ones we've seen in a while because it was reported, you know, three years like 47, $48 million, but it's extremely flexible. It's guaranteed this year. And then the next two years, $15 million each year is non-guaranteed. So if he's great, they can hold on to him.

If they spend a bunch of money and need to clear the cap off, they can just let him go. So it was actually a pretty inventive contract. That was actually a, you know, pretty, you know, the heat had an interesting offseason, which we'll talk about here in a second. But I like the Pistons slightly over this as a bet on on Jade Nivey's continued growth. Okay, coming up next, the defending Eastern Conference champion, Indiana Pacers, Halliburton will miss the season. They lose Miles Turner in basically, you don't want to pay him. You know, he walked for more money to the bucks.

Let me take this back because I can get a call. They made them an offer that would have taken them into the luxury tax, but they got beat by a higher offer that was market value. They may not have agreed on market value, but it was market value. And they're going to try to replace them by committee. And so basically they lose their point guard and their starting center, two pretty important positions. So 39 and a half is the number, bond temps for the Indiana Pacers.

Yeah, this one is hard to because I, they're not they're going to try to make the playoffs I'm sure so I'll probably reluctantly say the over again looking at just how bad the east is but I mean they're they're gonna no Halliburton and no Miles Turner and not any real replacement for either is going to be a difficult thing to manage but they have enough depth and they're I don't anticipate them trying to I don't anticipate them trying to really tank so I I'll say they get to around 5th, 40, you know, 41 at 41 and I'll, I'll take the over there. I'd probably take slightly under. Again, the whole gap year thing here. I think the most interesting thing about the Pacers this year on the floor is going to be watching Ryan Nimhard as the full-time point guard. Andrew Nemhard, Ryan Nemhard, if you were full-time. I am so bad on.

Listen, I've been making mistakes today, too. I am not putting my, I'm not looking down my nose at you. Ryan Nimhard, full-time point guard of the G-League's Texas Legends this year on a two-way contract with the Madnix. I tell you what, I've only had one cup of coffee. Andrew Nimard, who has certainly made himself a household name for NBA media at least. But seriously, the guy has proven himself as a. great role player as a like, dude, what a playoff run that he had.

Great defensive guard. Outstanding complimentary player. He's going to have the ball in his hands this year a ton. And it's going to be fascinating to see how he handles that. And, you know, long term, there might be some major benefit to him having this experience. I'm going over here just because I know how the Pacers organization operates. They're well coached. They've got good development.

They've got good depth. They're just limited in what they're going to spend. That's just the truth. And that's what happened to, they lost Miles Turner because of that. I mean, that's just no other way to put it. But they have, you know, there are some younger players who could get bigger roles this year who might thrive a little bit. You know, you might see some Johnny Furphy who, you know, they have routinely drafted guys

who have gotten better. Not everybody. They don't bat a thousand like anybody else. But a big thing for them will. be what they do with Benedict Matherin, whether they extend him, and if they don't extend them, whether they trade them. But obviously, they have T.J. McConnell who will help them. And, you know, T.J. McConnell is going to lead them to victories. Like, he's going to be a difference-making player. There might be two or three games this year where T.J. McConnell makes the difference,

and that pushes him over. So I don't know what's going to happen with them, but they are a team that typically overachieves, not underachieves. And so I'll bet on they're overachieving. Okay. Miami Heat, McMahon, I believe it's your, turn 37 and a half, the wager on the heat to being a losing team this year. They make the move to get Norm Powell is their big off-season move. Losing team. I don't like Brandeis here. I don't like betting on the heat to be a losing team.

I know they were last year. I don't know, man. I think Tyler Hero, Bamatabio, Norm Powell. in the Eastern Conference, they won't have the Jimmy's saga unfolding and sucking the soul out of the team for the first half of the season. Obviously, I don't have to talk about supposed credentials as a head coach. I'm going to take the over here. My best bet on the entire board, taking over on the 37 and a half. The heat last year had the fifth most clutch games in the league, 42 of them.

They went 14 and 28. They're not going to do that again. and while doing that, they won 37 games. So in non-clutch games, they were 23 and 17. They're going to be better than 37 wins. And like you said, McMahon, Bamadabio had a bad year last year. He'll be better. They had the Jimmy thing hanging over him for half the year.

I suspect they're going to be decently better this year, especially because, again, like the Pacers, they're going to be trying to win games in the East, and they're going to be a lot of games to win. So I think that number I agree I think they're going to try to win They may improve during the year

I'm going over More Hoop Collective podcast after this Milwaukee Bucks 42 and a half This seems to be a wager that Janus is not going to be there the whole year because they have won over 42 games

for like the last eight years even if there has been some injury issues Bontemps I don't know what's going to happen with Janus but I would probably not make this bet right now until I see opening night. But 42 and a half of Janus is there, seems low. Yeah, I mean, probably it's low. I mean, again, they had Damien Liller last year, who's awfully good, and they didn't really replace them. They replaced Brooke Lopez with Miles Turner,

but they still have the all-star point guard hole on their team. And yeah, they went out and, like, I've liked some of the stuff they've done on the market. margins like Ryan Rollins is an interesting young player, you know, getting Cole Anthony for the minimum and a buyout is fine. There's just not, there is not a lot of talent on the roster and they're one Janus injury of any sort away, even whether he's on, you know, say he's on the team. If he misses three weeks, they quickly become one of the worst teams in the league. So I'm going to take the under both as a hedge on if something happens. though I don't really expect it to trade-wise and also just the idea of him getting hurt because

he's going to have a insane usage load this year and, you know, he's going to put up crazy numbers, but what I'm also not convinced, that's going to have him in a situation where he's going to be playing 75 games. And if he misses, like I said, he misses any chunk of time, these guys are going to have a really, really, really hard time winning games. Yeah, no, they're going to put the ball on Thanasis San Jaco's hands. I was continuing my train to script up with his names. Could have gone on Costas there.

Former 60th overall pick, the Maverick's third player in the Luca Jalen Brunson draft. I can't go under 42 and a half with the honest, though. I think there's going to be an interesting MVP discussion around him if he plays

70 games. The information I have today is that Yonis is on the team. Obviously, if that changes, you You change it, but 42 and a half, I'm going over. New York Knicks, real close to the Cavs in terms of favorites to win the East. McMahon, 53 and a half. They added some depth to their team. 53 and a half, New York Knicks.

I'm going to go over just because I think that the Knicks are going to benefit from playing in the Eastern Conference where there's going to be a lot of wins to be had. Yeah, so that's about what I'll say there. And I don't know, Mike Browns obviously, his credentials speak for themselves. I don't know if firing Tibbs is going to lead to more regular season wins or not, but I think this team wins more regular season games than they did last year, if that makes sense. Yeah, I'm also taking the over. Same reasons as the Cavs.

The Knicks are good. The Knicks are pretty deep. The Knicks got deeper this offseason. and the East stinks. So they're going to win a couple more games, and they'll probably be the second seed. Yeah, there's three teams that ESPN bet has in the 50s for over under in the East.

And I just think that there's going to be a lot of wins available for those teams. So the Knicks, I'm going to go over. The other team that other than the Cavs that is over, has in the 50s for their over under is the Orlando Magic, 51 and a half, Bontems. Obviously, the big offseason move, trading four first for Desmond Bain.

Yeah, I'm taking the under. I don't. I like the magic talent-wise, but the magic have a lot of injury questions. Can you take on the court? Desmond Bain has had a decent amount of health issues over the past couple of years. Let's see how he can stay on the court. You know, Mo Wagner was a really important piece of them off the bench. He's obviously got a torn ACL. We'll see when he can play. Jonathan Isaac is a guy who's in and out of the lineup in general. Palo Big Carrow and Franz Wagner, miss time last year. This team still has some shooting issues. And Jalen Suggs. Yeah, well, right, Sugs I mentioned earlier. But I, they could go over this number, but there's enough things

that could go wrong for them to be under that I'm going to take the under. But if they're healthy in April, going into the playoffs and they show some improvement offensively from their core guys, they're going to be a very difficult out in the postseason. I'd probably take the under 51 and a half is a lot. I think it's close. I think they're probably a 50 win team. I don't know about a 52 win team. I love the Bain fit for them.

You know, I certainly can say they overpaid, given the pick package that went back in return, especially with the son's pick being in there. But this team was starved for a big time. shooter. Bain's a big time shooter who can also create a little bit. But again, I think I'll go 50 and not 52. Bain has average 56 games over the last three years. True. But even if they get 56 games out of Bain, I think it's going to be a boost to them. And I do think that

they're going to win some games. I don't think they're going to, I don't think they're headed like to threaten 60. But again, if I'm if I'm on the first, fence about a team in the Eastern Conference. I'm going to lean a little bit over if it's a good team because I just think there's going to be some wins out there. So I'll lean over on the magic. I don't even know how you say the Philadelphia 76 series. I mean, this is an off the board one for me. Bontemps, the number is 30 is, sorry, the number is 30, 40, the, pontems, the number is 43 and a half. I don't freaking know. You got to pick one way or the other eventually.

I will. I'm picking the under. Paul George seems like he's going to be out for quite a while. We have no idea what Joel and B's health is going to be. Why would you pick the over? Yeah, I agree with that. I just... It could go way over, but...

Well, but here's the thing. Why would you bet that? Over under 43 and a half games played by Joel and Bede. Over under 43 and a half games played by Paul George. Let's be honest, we're probably picking the under on both of those. And if we're picking the under on those, we're picking the under on 43 and a half wins. Yeah. Yeah, you can't bet on the, you can't bet on the 76ers.

It's, it's insane. You have to, you'd have to sleep on the under. All right. Toronto Raptors had a bit of a spurt towards the end of the season, ended up screwing them in the lottery. They end up going all the way back to ninth. They do get Brandon Ingram back. Back.

Well, I guess he never played. So I guess he's not coming back. He has yet to play a game. So they do get Brandon Ingram, who they paid a big premium to on a contract attention line. year. They're over under is 36 and a half. McMahon. Yeah.

This team has play and written all over it. Yes. They might want to play and they'd be thrilled with the play. And that's the problem. But the problem is, is that, you know, if they get near it, they may go for it. Yeah. And I just, God. They gave a ton of money to Jakub Pertil in one of the more under-discussed contracts of the summer, at least for one that was nine.

figures. Yacob Perl got $26 million a year. Yeah. I just, I don't really like the long term at all for Toronto. It's good thing people up there like hockey so much. I'm going to take the under and think they're like a 33 win, 10 seed. I think this one's easy. I'm taking the over. Last year, they won 30 games while pretty much actively trying to lose every game for the final couple months of the season. And they're going to be trying to push forward. And in the east, there's a lot of wins to be had. And they're going to end up somewhere around 500. So I'll take the over.

Yeah. If Brandon Ingram, if Brandon. None of that is an endorsement, really, of the way things have gone a couple years. I tend to agree with your position, man. We've talked about Toronto out. I just, they are, they're, they're, poised to be the eight seed. Somebody's got to win games.

When two each in conference teams plays, one has to win. And they've got a bunch of decent players and, you know, they're poised to be somewhere in that 500 mix. Yeah. Their talent is indicative of a team that would be in this range. I'll go a nose over just because I think they'll try to improve the trade deadline and keep their foot down. I think that's what they're going to lean into.

It could end up on the last day of the season to get into the play. Washington Wizards, 20 and a half, Bontemps. Yeah, this one is like the Brooklyn Nets one, a difficult one to go either way on because we're probably going to have a couple teams under 20 wins, but which teams are they? The Wizards last year won 18 games. They do have a lot of young players who have gotten a lot of young players who have gotten a of minutes who are probably going to be better this year. So they may improve a little bit.

I will probably take the under, though, and lean into the fact that they're probably going to be bad for one more year and just playing, again, all of these young guys, an absolute ton of minutes. I doubt C.J. McCallum is playing a ton of minutes for them. I doubt Chris Middleton is playing a ton of minutes for them. You know, Trey Johnson is an interesting young guard, but again, as we talked about earlier, he's not a point guard, but you play your guards, you're probably going to lose games, and they're playing a lot of young guards. So I will reluctantly take the under, even though I think that one could end up being wrong.

They at least have some interesting pieces in place. I really actually like the Cam Whitmore trade for them. Me too. Just as a high upside flyer, I don't blame the Rockets for just basically saying, hey, we've got to move on from him. He's not going to play regular minutes for us. And, you know, I don't think he was going to be adding to the culture if he wasn't playing regular minutes. But the guy can, boy, he's a six-foot-seven NBA athlete who can put the ball in the hole.

But, yeah, I would say it would certainly benefit them to be under on this and try to add somebody else to a core of Alex Sar and Trey Johnson. But I do, I just like, I like the AJ Johnson trade for them. I like them taking these high upside lyre swings while they are, you know, figuring out who their core is going to be that they're actually going to be able to win games with, hopefully sooner than later, but certainly not this season. 20 is such a low over under. It's hard to go under, but I think if they're on pace to go over, actions will be taken, make sure they go under, which is what I'm going to lean to.

Okay, that's the Eastern Conference. We appreciate you watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Bontems. And we'll talk to you soon. Adios amigos.