Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - NBA Eastern Conference Win Totals REACTION - STUNNING Over/Unders For 2026-27

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Vince Goodwill to break down the win totals for every team in the Eastern Conference including which lines are way too high, who is being overlooked and where the conference stands after some major shakeups. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which you're doing on Sunday evening. We're all back in the United States. We all, we all had the time zones figured out and the correct days. Joining us from, I think you're in New York. I'm not sure. I am actually in New York right now. But joining me from across the river, I believe, is Vince Goodwill.

What up, though, Wendy. What up, though, McMahon? Yes, I am back from Atlanta. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where it's Cowboys time. Thank God, it's Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners, welcome back to this side of the pond, Wendy. By the way, early season, Texas, or Ohio State at Texas, I should say, we might need a little wager on that one.

We can discuss. I don't know. I'm going to watch the first week. Last year they played in the first game, and both teams were pet, both coaches were petrified of their quarterbacks, and they wouldn't throw the ball more than that. and four yards downfield. So I think it'll be a little bit different game this year.

I watched that from a sports bar in Tamarindo, Costa Rica. I enjoyed experience that day with the exception to that game. I enjoyed it a lot. How did how did it do against Michigan last year, Vince? I can't remember. I have no clue. I just remember Michigan's won for the last five games. But go ahead.

That's true. That's true. All right. So speaking of wins is now, the time has now come for, us to talk about the Eastern Conference Overunders. We did the Western Conference at the end of last week. When I arrived at JFK, I had a very nice customs agent, Edgar.

Shout out to Edgar, who's a Knicks fan. He was talking to me about the Knicks. Very worried about Carl Towns' contract. Very, very rounded Knicks fan. Very happy about their wins, still basking the glory, but worried about losing Mitch Robinson, worried about Carl Towns' contract. I liked, it was a very, no, I mean, first off, I'm trying to get through the border.

So, you know, I'm being very, you know, very engaging, you know. But a very grounded Nix fan and I think reasonable. Hold on, that's a long conversation. Was this during a cavity search? What was going on? It was, you know, I will say that the, you know, the speed of global entry was a little bit negated by the conversation. but I'm always, I was waiting for my bags anyway, and I'm always happy to befriend and, you know,

you know, show respect to our frontline responders. It's also nice for you to have a pleasant conversation with Nix fans instead of having to duck and dodge. Listen, if you're not, if you're in a bad mood as a Nix fan right now, I don't know what to tell you. Exactly. So I will say this, you know, if you recall in the Western Conference, the Thunder's over under was 60 and a half.

The Spurs was 59.5. And then nobody else had over 50. That is not the case in the Eastern Conference, where 10 teams are separated by basically 10 games. Four teams over 50. Yes. And before I say anything, Vince, before I toss you the Knicks here,

let me just say that we can debate about what the actual number is, but every team last year that was non-tanking had their wins inflated by the tankers. You know, so we, you know, like I said, we could spend hours debating whether the, you know, the Thunder should have had 58 wins or 64 wins or whatever. But all of these numbers coming off last year

were artificially inflated. And so I will just say that, I would use that reality to guide you, not just you fine gentlemen, but as anybody thinks about this upcoming season, certainly the playoffs were the playoffs. But remember last year that it was a sideways year when it comes to the wins.

Okay, the New York Knicks are picked to have the most wins in the Eastern Conference by Draft Kings. As a reminder, Thunder, 60 and a half, Spurs 59. And a half. New York Knicks, Vince Goodwell, 53 and a half over under,

what say you? I think they won 53 last year. Plus 16. Plus 16. The 16 is what matters. The 16 was more impressive. Far more impressive. It's a tricky thing, guys,

because usually for me, when you win a championship, there's either the championship malaise or there's this sort of championship arrogance that comes in where you can pick up five or ten wins that maybe you don't get otherwise just because you're arrogant as hell

and you win the game before the game even begins. That level of thing. Like you saw it, I want to say with the third year to Miami, the LeBron Miami heat, not saying that this is the super team of that. But once you get the validation of winning the championship

and you know how you're going to play and everything sort of. seven game win streak or 28, whatever it was? Yeah, yeah, and they won like 66 games. I've seen teams in that second year, like everything just sort of clicks, right? But you're right that they were a third seed going into the playoffs. And I think that was the reason why some people weren't as bullish as maybe we should have been as evidence by the playoffs.

But 53 can beat up on Indiana this year, but you can beat up on Milwaukee. You'll probably still beat up on the Brooklyn's and Chicago's, right? I'm going to take the over. Just because I think 55 or 56 will win the Eastern Conference, not 53, 54. Well, I gave that whole speech, McMahon, and he just slapped it right away. I hear you. Now, let me remind you, though, their regular season last year was a roller coaster. Yes, it was.

There was a steep drop? Like, what was it? Denny, was it late January, February, when they had a miserable stretch? And I thought... that two and nine. I thought they were just completely unraveling at the time. And obviously, they got it together. You know, you're talking about the potential for a championship hangover.

Obviously, there's a different kind of target on a team when they come into your building as the defending champs. I do think this is a veteran team. You know, Brunson is definitely a very mature leader. I don't think they're going to get frazzled, you know, too caught up in the hype. I share cavity searching Edgar's concern to a certain degree about cats. If cats not extended going in the season, there's some uncertainty there. I share that concern to a certain degree. Well, I'm not concerned about this season with Cat.

You know, I'm concerned that if Cat doesn't extend, it's obviously a problem because he's going to be a free agent. And if he does extend and it's for a number that's, you know, basically it's the max. Like, I think savvy Knicks fans know that cat extending for the max could, could be the beginning move of this team not being able to keep its core together. Not for sure, but could. And so I think that's, I don't think the concern is on the 26, 27 season. Yeah. But we have seen cases of guys who they don't get an extension. They feel unappreciated.

and that causes issues. I don't, I think Kat's in a really good place, obviously professionally, personally, and by the way, congrats to Kat, one of a few Eastern Conference stars

who've gotten married in the recent, for him, recent days, but recent weeks. Congrats to Donovan Mitchell, Tyre's Halliburton, as well.

And then there's a loss of Mitch Robinson, bringing in Andre Drummond, you know, that's a, that is a downgrade. Having said all that, I'm going to take

over on 53. and a half, I think this team's, you know, somewhere in the 55, 56 one range. It feels like they want you to take the over with this number, doesn't it? Mm-hmm. It feels like they want you to. Now, the one thing I'll say about the Knicks last year, Brunson, they were very healthy. Yes. Brunson played 74 games, and I haven't done the research, but I'm sure some of the games he set out were for rest.

And I know that he had, you know, played through some things. He had the off-season hand surgery. Yeah, wrist surgery. OG and Anobie played 67 games, which is, well, I'm going to take a look and see where he was. He played 74 the year before, so he's two pretty good years in a row. Carl Towns played 75 games. Josh Hart, who had back and finger issues during the year, played 66 games. Jordan Clark, I mean, you know, listen, they do have one of the best medical staffs, if not the best medical staff in the league.

I didn't even mention Mikhail Bridges because you know he played all 82. I mean, he played 82. But there's all the stuff about Casey Smith leaving Dallas and then they immediately win the NBA trainers associations, you know, whenever the official word, you know, trained staff of the year award. So they've got a good chance to have a healthy team

because they've got a really strong medical team in place. True, yeah. I mean, even Mitchell Robinson, he played 60 games, but a lot of the games that he skipped events were precautionary to protect his feet. Mitch, Mitch. And they were controlling the minutes, too. You know what I mean?

Right. Mitch had a healthy year. So I'm just saying that the Knicks had a very healthy season last year. Is that an under that I hear? Yeah, I'm just, what I'm saying is like, I think all teams wins were inflated last year. And they had a very healthy year. I need to hear one word or the other. Over?

Under. I know. Two options here. He's given the case. I don't need headlines in my life in August. I just don't need that. You're going to have to go under on some teams. I'm not betting it.

I'm not betting it anyway. We're not allowed. But I would stay away from this one. Holy fence rider. Did you order the cold red? Like, it's one of the other coroner, Jessup. Because here's the thing, because if I say it, it'll get aggregated. But we'll talk.

I think you should probably go under. Splinters in your nether regions. I honestly could go under on every, I think it would be a market efficiency to go under on every team and, you know, all of the teams with winning records. That's an interesting betting strategy. Because I just think that last year was so wonked with, uh, um, So that's an under. I would lean under. There we go.

Vinny, we had to squeeze and come on. Come on, Wendy, be a man of your convictions. Again, it's not. Do I have to play bond tempts here and say, come on, Wendy, what are they done? It's not a commentary on the Knicks team. It's a commentary on the situation. All right. We get it.

Stop waffling. All right. McMahon, the second highest win total. here. A little surprise at this one. Boston Celtics, 51.5. Ahead of the 76ers. Ahead of the Pistons. Ahead of the calves.

Ahead of the heat. Janus Attenacumpo's heat. ahead of the Pacers. And so they were a... Boston Celtics, 51.5. There were a 56 win team last year, despite Jason Tatum missing most of the season and then having to ramp back up when you return with what, like about a third of the season.

season left. Now, basically, look, we're going to find out whether the nerds are right about Jaylon Brown's impact or not. If they're over, the nerds are right. If they're under, then clearly the spreadsheets don't know what the hell they're talking about. So I just think, though, that Tatum is obviously a top, whatever you want to say, five, ten player in the league. They've got, they still got some, you know, some pieces around him, some depth. They've got a system of play that lends itself to a lot of regular season wins. Now, you know,

it's broken down in the playoffs in the last couple of years, but I take over just because I think a Joe Mazzola team with this kind of talent is going to win 50-some-odd games. And I'm betting it's 53 or more. I guess I'm

betting 52 or more. Boy, you guys are just going over right out of the gate. All contrary, cornfritter, because I'm not not going over. I think they will miss Jalen Brown a little bit more in the regular season, just because the Pac-Man effect eats up usage, eats up games, eats up minutes, like both ends of the floor.

I think they're going to miss them. And there's an element of toughness that in talking to people around the league, that when they said they feared the Celtics, they were saying they feared the toughness of a guy like Jalen Brown more than, more than the all-around skill set and everything, it was just the element of toughness. I am curious, A, how healthy is Paul George going to be next season? This man is old.

Like, you know, you hit the suspension and everything else, and he got to sit for 25 games. We're not counting that playing having an effect this year. But we are talking about a player who does not regularly attend basketball games in uniform. And as you get older. Yeah, you're hoping for 55 games out of him, if we're being real. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a lot of things to me have to go right. you're also asking Jason Tatum to be the, not just number one, one, A, but especially with

Paul George being this attendance concern, Jason Tatum's going to be over-indexed a lot of nights to have to be the number one and number two option. What about the little fellow Peyton Pritcher's? That's fine. I'm with you. I'm with you. Like, that's, he's a, he's, he is a legitimate NBA starting level player who has performed really, really well.

certainly over my expectations of him. Derek White is his three-point shot going to come back this year. I know defensively and everything else, how he grades, how he rates. I just have a lot, I just have more questions than answers about the Celtics. And although I think that, you know, the Joe Missoula system kind of breaks down in the playoffs, it does work in a regular season. But I will probably put them in a 50-win range, not 52. So I'm going to take slightly, slightly.

Let me take you back the last 10 years of the Celtics. 56 wins, 61 win. This is going backwards. Say 56 last year. 56, 61, 64, 57, 51 in the second COVID year, the shortened season, they were 36 and 36. That was obviously a down year. 48, 49, the 48 win was in a COVID short year. 48, 49, 55, 53, 48.

the Celtics win and you are right Vince there's no way to predict what Paul George is going to do like he actually shot the hell out of the ball in the playoffs last year if you remember he shot almost 50% on threes

when he came back from the suspension he had that like three or so weeks he played looked really good but that doesn't mean anything I have no idea how he's gonna hold up but the Celtics I think and I don't think it's an

it's an anti, they're not like trying to prove Jalen wrong or anything. I think they want to just prove everybody wrong. Like one of the things that you, you know, when you have a team that's had a lot of success, one of the things that you try to do is you want to get them coming into a season with, I mean, coaches of successful teams sit around and plot and think and come up with reasons to energize their team. I think the Celtics will be energized. And I'm going to almost say that the Celtics

being energized would negate the bump that they got from having the tankers last year. The real question comes down to, are they just, are they good enough? Hey, here's a whiz of the quiz, too. RIP, USWB. Whiz of the quiz,

which coaches in NBA history have a higher winning percentage than Joe Mazzola? I think it's nobody. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah. So I am actually, after my speeches, I think I'm going to go over. There you go. Wait, so I have a question.

I have a follow-up question. Can I address, Mr. McMahon, can I address Wendy as a hostile witness? Absolutely. Is he the judge? Is he the judge? Yeah, he's the judge in this. So Brian Winhorst, Brian Keith Winhorst, even though I'm not sure that's your middle name, it just sounds like it works. Now, Thomas.

There we go. Brian Thomas Winhorse. You're not willing to go over or under on the New York Knicks. You are willing

to go over on the Boston Celtics. Are you willing to say that the Boston Celtics are going to be the top seat in the Eastern Conference

after the regular season? I see what you're trying to do. You're trying to move me into that. No, I'm not willing to say that, but I do think

that the Celtics, I think the Knicks could be primed for not having as good of a regular season. I'm with you. I think the Celtics, for various reasons, are primed to have a good regular season. Okay. But I admit that Paul George is, if Paul George shoots 42% on threes, which is what he shot after he came back last year from the suspension,

and fills that three and D roll, you know, probably taking seven plus threes a game. Yeah, if that's what that guy does. I'm ready to go. I have no way to predict that. I don't have a, I do not have like a conviction on it. I just think. I'm with you.

My only problem with that thought is Paul George being suspended for 25 games meant he got to rest his body and was able to play fresher. And they're going to ask a lot more of him in Boston than they did in Philadelphia last year. I'm just saying, like if you said to me, like look, part of what I'm pricing in with the Knicks

is I think they just, Just for law of averages, I think they probably won't be as healthy this year. Not saying that Boston's going to be a better team. Right, right, right. And I think Boston, you know, might be healthier. Tatum will play more games, hopefully. So, you know. Yeah, Boston with Paul George coming in might be healthier.

Good bet. I know. It's, I agree. You guys are right. You can pick me a part on it. You're right. It's not the soundest argument. I'll give it to you.

More hoop collection. Podcast after this. 76ers with the third tied with the pistons. 50 and a half. We'll start with the 76ers. Go ahead, Vince. I suspect you'll be in the Bontemps lane on I-95 a few times this season. Why are we going here?

I can't believe I do. What are we doing here? Yeah, that's me. The Acelo. Bontemps used to drive down in the morning and back at night. So that's the standard here for you. Can I tell you? story about Bontemps?

What's that? Let's hear this. I don't know if I've ever told this. Bon Tems, you know, he talks on the phone a lot and he gets animated on the phone. He one time was driving to Philadelphia to go cover a 76ers game. And he got like real animated on the phone.

And his wallet was on the dashboard for some reason. And his window was open. And while he was crossing the Benjamin Franklin Bridge, he knocked his wallet. I mean, he said the wind blew it. How could the wind blow it? His wallet went off the dashboard, out the window, and over the Benjamin Franklin Bridge into the school you kill river. I don't know if I'm saying. Why do you put the wallet on the dashboard of all places?

Probably because he had to play a toll or something. his wallet there's like a little console the middle section he lost a wallet I never told the start because they didn't want to embarrass him but I don't care anymore screw him he's gone now fair game now

he so if you make it animated when they're driving with their hands I don't actually I don't even know if that he said though he said the wind blew it what am I supposed to say well I can't prove it well he did always miss about how little he was paid so that makes sense his wall was that like Once, if you make it through the season and you don't have your wallet go into the river, you'll be ahead of bond temps.

Well, 50 and a half over under. Well, for one, it would just be my luck that I would knock my wallet out of my car. And the next thing you hear is, roo! Take the train. Be safe. That ain't going to work out well. Hey, officer, funny thing that happened. My wallet and the ID was on the down.

dashboard, I knocked it out of the car, into the water. It's somewhere down there, but I guarantee you I am who I say I am. I'll be calling Wendy. By the way, I am prepared at this time to announce a bounty of $100 for any Bon Tem's wallet paraphernalia that washes up on the shores that people are able to recover. Driver's License Library Card. If you find it on the shores of the river and let us know, I will I will buy it from you for $100.

What about credit cards? I might pay a little bit more. Wow. I think he canceled him. But, I mean, that is, by the way, that is like a genuine disaster. Like, your wallet goes out the window, okay? This is a disaster, whether you're anything. And it happens while you're on the Benjamin Franklin Bridge, and it goes over the side.

Crazy. Over on the sixers, any. Yeah, yeah. My question, my only question, guys, is how many games are LeBron James? and Joel Embed going to play and play together. That's the tougher over-under. Embed, probably 40-ish,

based on his recent history. And then LeBron... He's played 57 in the last two years, if I remember correctly. And LeBron, I want to say played 51. I'm never going to say 60 last year. Sorry, he's going to say 51. He played 51 somewhere, whatever it was.

But Maxie and Edgum are going to play. And Jalen Brown is going to play, like short of some type of injury. they're all going to play. Embed and LeBron, I think you look at those two guys, at least for me, I look at Philly like I look at the Knicks, where they probably using Wendy's thing about those guys being healthy. You just want to be healthy by April 15th. So I wonder how much they're going to say, let's get ourselves right by March 1st. Let's make sure that we're somewhere in the hunt and then we can press the gas for the last six weeks of the regular season,

develop the continuity that we need, and then go. I'm not saying that they're going to just, you know, BS around with the regular season, but I don't know how much the regular season has to matter to them if they're playing this long game of the playoffs. That being said, I can see them around 50 wins. I can see them just saying, let's just have home court in the first round,

Let's not make the playoff role too difficult for us. And let's make sure that we are as healthy as healthy. But if Embed isn't healthy, as great as LeBron's has shown himself to be, as great as Jalen Brown is, I still think they need a lot of minutes and a lot of time to play with each other. I think we saw that in the second round last year against the Nix. Like they didn't have the sweat equity together while the NICS had all the sweat equity. And the first time that Philly faced some adversity, they fold it. I'm not saying this is going to happen with them.

I'm saying that that is the value of guys playing together. I will put them somewhere around 50 wins. Like that might be the toughest over-under, I think, of all of them, guys, for me, because you just don't know how many games your two best players are going to play. Yeah. Well, or, I don't know, are they their two best players? That's a separate debate. But there were a 45-win team.

It did make two splashy upgrades. One was a guy who was sixth in an MVP. voting one is you know still at the age of 41 a no question an all-star caliber player and what is he a 23 time

All-Star I think and still playing at a Yeah I'm changing my mind I'm going over Okay you went over McMahon McMahon McMahon just did it I'm going over Well and but here's the thing

I do think that it's going to take some time some minutes uh you know some weeks months for them to figure out fit in chemistry because they've got five guys in the starting lineup,

four who are proven, you know, all-stars, all-MBA players, I believe. Has Maxi been all? Yeah, Maxi's been all-MBA. And then, you know, VGA Edgecom was obviously like an ascending star, so they've got five guys in the starting lineup who want the ball. And we've talked about the fit within Bede and the rest of the group. The rest of the group is built to play. You know, I mean, 85, 95 miles per hour.

And, you know, Embed, like the highest speed limit in Samoa, Wendy, is 25 miles per hour. That's indeed speed. Is that right? Yeah, that's just that. But what day is it? Right. It's the same day. It's six hours earlier than central time right now in American Samoa and Western Samoa today ahead.

But so I just, I'm going under because I think it's going to take. make them a while to figure out fit in chemistry. And then as you mentioned, how much is Embed in the lineup? How much is LeBron in the lineup? That prolongs that and complicates things. I'm going under and leaving open the possibility of them being a better team in the playoffs than they are in the regular season. I'd look this up, but I'm not really saying this is a defining stat.

I'm just going to say, in the last nine years, you know how many times LeBron's teams have gone over 50 and a half? last nine years that's interesting how many last nine so basically the lake the the laker year and the last year in cleveland laker 10 year in the last year in cleveland what once twice yeah once was once was once was 52 wow um now um you know the covid years they were shortened but even if you got the percentages so you know lebron hasn't been on powerhouse regular season teams for a while now again He's making the minimum. He is not going to necessarily be the driving force night in and night out that he has been. And I agree with your sentiment, McMahon. Wait, they won 53 last year. Yeah, go back farther.

Okay. That's interesting. It's only the second time. Wow. So, well, I'll just say that I think they can be an excellent team and very formidable and win 48 games. because I think 48 wins in the Eastern Conference is going to be a great season this year.

So I'm going to go under. I think it's just a safe because you don't know about Embed and you don't know about health and all the other stuff. I think it's just safe to go under. I think probably going under on the Sixers has probably been a profitable position,

frankly. But I don't say it controversially. I just think, you know, and not only that, like LeBron's teams, when he's changed teams, they've tended to get off to slower starts. When he went to Miami, they started 9 and 8. They obviously ended up fine. But, you know, when they went back to Cleveland, they started 19 and 20.

When he went to the Lakers, I mean, again, I don't want to make it sound like all of these are all equal because I know this is a different situation. But, you know, once the Lakers, they missed the playoffs the first year. So, you know, learning to play with LeBron takes a while. So, I mean, but is this a different LeBron? I mean. Of course. Of course. And I mean, retort.

I meant that like preaching to the choir. I wonder if the Nick Nurse plan, what the Nick Nurse plan is going to be for four guys who need the ball all the time. And maybe not trying to make this a LeBron centric offense just to sort of keep him fresh. Like where all those other places that you mentioned, LeBron was the guy, or at least in the first year of Miami, he and Dwayne were going one. 1A, it was sort of that uneasy alliance, you know, for the better part of that first year. I wonder if this is where Maxie and Jalen Brown and Edgecombe as the rising star, like, they take the, they take the lion's share of usage while LeBron revs it up, you know what I mean, and gets himself right.

And I'm sure that like, you know, first off, Nick Nurse is a problem solver coach. and even if he does, even if whatever the plan they come into the season with doesn't work, like the players on the team and him as a coach can retrofit it midway through and still be very formidable. I don't doubt that.

I just think the, the variables that are out there leads me to believe that they may not rack up a ton of wins. LeBron clearly didn't love being distant third in the Lakers pecking order. when that was clearly established. However, he was awesome in that role.

Like the efficiency was through the roofs. Yeah, they had 53 wins. Yeah. So. It was the most wins he'd ever had in the regular season as a Laker. Now, the. There's some wonkiness with the bubble. The COVID year, they probably would have done it in the COVID year.

But, all right. Pistons last season, Vince, were number one seed in the east with 60 wins. The folks at Draft Kings are like, nope, you're going to have 10 wins less. Well, I'm going to cede to McMahon because I went first on Philly. No, no. Actually, I was going to cede to you here because you are Detroit native.

Yes, I am. Vinny Goodwill. And so you know that, like, I've got my take, but I just, you know this team as a guy who's been around them on a regular basis for a while, for the whole, you know, especially like the whole rebuild and rise that they've had. So I want to hear your informed take here. Well, to expect them to win 60 games next year, I think they're going to be the team. Because they feasted on everybody last year.

Like they had one of the best records against winning teams last year as well as one of the best records against losing teams. You're not going to just feast on the bad teams on your way to 60 as much as it looks like. But I wonder about the same questions that everybody else has. Like last year was so much more continuity. Like you had Duren and Thompson and Stewart back and Tobias Harris as a second option coming back from that first year. And they were banking on a lot of internal growth. This year there's been the changes with no more Tobias Harris and John Collins,

who's a more athletic player, but maybe not as stable of just dumping. it down, get you know, get you two or three buckets in a row, like that sort of thing. I wonder if they're going to take, it's going to take them a minute to figure out some stuff as well as the shooting. Like, I want to see if Isaiah Joe is enough for them because I don't know if Kevin Herder, if that was an overpay to bring him back at $9 million a year when you looked at the market of some of the guys who performed better than Kevin Hurder, but went for less. Like, that's a gamble that they're taking.

know if the Jalen Duren thing is going to have some hurt feelings whenever he decides to sign or however that thing shakes itself out. But I do think they'll win at least 51, 52 games. Like they play halacious defense. They play really good regular season basketball defense. So Sarth Thompson, to me, is the best defender outside of Victor Winniama in the NBA. They're still going to be built the same way the Celtics are built to win games because of their I think Detroit is going to be built to win games because of how they play. And because Kay Cunningham is an MVP candidate and going to be consistently an MVP candidate as he's going to start entering his prime. So I'm going to go over, but I don't think they're getting anywhere close to 60.

Yeah, I'm going over just because 10 wins is a pretty steep drop. You know, you didn't mention the departure of beef stew. They're obviously betting the B-ball Paul Reed can be a high-quality backup big man. But the biggest question I've got about the Pistons is like, what's going to be the lingering cloud when this whole Jalen Duren situation gets finalized or at least temporarily settled? Like, is he going to sign an extension? I don't know. But this has been a awfully nasty negotiation. And so I've got real concerns there because I understand they believe Assartan.

is their second best player. But like Jananderm was an all-MBA player for him last year. He was a massive factor in them winning 60 games. You can certainly criticize the playoff performance, but he was a massive factor in them winning 60 games. And, you know, I don't know him. Like, I don't really have a great feel for kind of his temperament or anything like that. But sometimes these negotiations, when they're ugly like this, can have consequences.

Long lasting. And I think, and I'm not trying to give away too much here, but I think when you have negotiations like this, there's certain things that a player should not have to hear. You know what I mean? There's certain things that a player does not have to hear when the messaging comes back about why you're not getting what you believe to be your value. And those are perhaps conversations that are going to have to be had to clear the air. whenever he signs his deal. Like, I don't know if he's going to take the qualifying. It's very rarely someone passes up $180 million guaranteed to take nine on the, on the thought that I'm going to go and get from insert team here. Like sometimes you sometimes with a player like that, he hears, well, Boston was going to offer me this and Sacramento was going to offer me this. team X is going to offer me close to, you know, over $200 million if we were to work out a sign and trade and then they get that in their head and they can't get it out. And I'm very curious for a guy who's still very young, who felt like he'd done enough

in the regular season to warrant getting, quote, unquote, his money, how that's going to play moving forward. He's a professional. He shows up. He works hard, all of that stuff. Like nobody takes any of that away from him. I just wonder where human nature comes in after a. certain point where your feelings are hurt.

Yeah. I want to back up real quick because I forgot to say something about 76ers. I realize that we're in the dead of the offseason here and like, you know, people just sort of sometimes invent stuff. The angst that existed over the 76th year's schedule was laughable to me. I didn't really. There was angst. There was angst?

Yeah, because they had the fewest back-to-back game. than the fewest three games and four nights. And this is my favorite one. No games against the Western Conference for the first 18 games. Do they have to play 30 games against the West? Or did they, I mean, first off, people, a lot of people think the East is better this year anyway. They came from no games.

No Western Conference games until the 18th game. What a huge advantage? I mean, the low number of back-to-backs and three and four. I did look at that as kind of a LeBron slash and beat from the schedule, but also the teams that have all these national games. What do they have one, fewer back to back?

Yeah, it's not a huge difference. Also, though, the teams that have a ton of national games, the league is trying to protect those national games. So, like, the higher profile teams are going to have better schedules also. The teams that don't have many national games, it's because they're not good.

Wendy, here's a suggestion. Also, also the job. listening to them. Stop listening to them. Also, the concept that Adam, it was Adam Silver, he was in there with the calendar out going, oh, yeah,

let's, yeah, yeah, like, it was Adam Silver who did it. Sorry, well, I digress. I'm going over on the pistons. I think that they'll defend and they'll win and they've still got a lot going for them. And I agree that I don't know

it's going to have with Duren, but I don't think they're going to have a massive drop-off. I think they're still a very good team. They may be a flawed team, but I think they're still a very good team. This is one of the easier calls. Cleveland Cavaliers, Cavs Corner. They won 64 games two years ago,

50, what was they went like 53, 54 last year? 52 last year. 52. And Vegas says 47 and a half, McMahon. Nope. Damn. Caps Corner. That's your block, buddy.

You start this one. Oh. Well, the calves, the calves made a trade last week. They traded Dennis Schrooter who's going to go play for his 12th team. And for Trade Man. This was a financial trade, right? This was to free some, or it was to save some salary. Now, Wendy.

Why would they do that? Well, they're obviously trying to clear space underneath the apron. so that they can leave the possibility open of a sign and trade. Whether that sign and trade is Peyton Watson or Jonathan Cominga. You guys know how I feel about Cominga sign and trade. It's very hard for me to see the Hawks doing a sign and trade where they take back a player and go into the tax to help Jonathan Comingga out. But there's creativity, getting another team involved, et cetera, et cetera.

Yes. So the calves definitely are trying to get Peyton Watson. They're definitely trying to do it. And by the way, is it real quick aside, are the Hornets trying to like recreate the German national team? I think they're just trying to get a creator. They drafted the two German guys, Steinbach and Anderson, the two guys who played on the German national team

and then they just traded for Dennis Schroeder? Like, are they, is there some crazy maneuver there? The German national team, by the way, is the reigning world and European champions. It's not the strangest decision of all time. Potential Future Hall of Fame or Dennis Schroeder because he's so damn good for the German national team. Hey, I'm just saying.

Are you saying that the Hall of Fame is easy to get into, McMahon? We'll get to the hornets later. All right. Anyway, the calves are trying to figure this out, and it would probably involve making another ancillary trade, potentially with Max Struz being shipped to a third team, and then using that, the team would have a trade exception or cap space, and then using that hole, you could get the nuggets.

But, you know, the nuggets have to agree to trade. Peyton Watson. You know, I mean, that's a, that's a decision that would have to be made. So let's just say the Peyton Watson possibilities out there. The one thing the Cavs did in this deal was that they wrote the Hornets a $4 million check because they're light on trade assets in terms of draft picks. They didn't have to give any draft capital to move off of Schrooter, who has two years and 30 million left on this deal. And so that leaves them the ability. to maneuver with Denver and possibly with Struz. Now, to me, if the calves get Peyton Watson

in the next seven to ten days, to me, well, maybe that's a great move. The difficulty with Peyton Watson is that he was really good last year for a short burst and then the hamstring engine. And maybe it's an incredible opportunity to squeeze Denver, who's, financially impacted.

Maybe it's a, maybe it's a, maybe it's a, you know, it's kind of what the Thunder were doing when they went after Spencer Jones, they were trying to put Denver in a tough, tough position and pull a player out of there. I just, I just think it's a little bit of a risk taking a player who's, who's a top end outputs that you're playing for has been so small.

So basically I would say this. If the calves get Peyton Watson, the first question I have is, what's the contract? Because, you know, you know how I say, you sign a contract, can you trade it? So, you know, what sort of contract are they giving him if they can pull it off? So anyway, 47 and a half, this is a reflection of the way they, I mean, if any, I got to say, Vince, I think this is a reaction to what's basically been a non-eventful offseason. and the fact that they got absolutely embarrassed by the Knicks in the conference finals last year. It's the combination of both.

Is that you saying over, Wendy? No, I'm saying under. I'm saying under. But it's more, it's more because I think that they will, I think, by the way, I think this is about right. Like 47 is about right. and I think, you know, Donovan had a healthy year last year, which helped a lot. My concern is this for the Cavs. What are we seeing that wins and that is winning in the league right now?

Youth, depth, and size, but certainly youth and depth. And if the Cavs have to, I mean, they lost Keon Ellis, they lost Dean Wade, you know, not that Schrooter is, you know, a difference-making player, but that's a rotation player that they've lost. And the potentially are going to have to, you know, if they're going to get Watson, they're going to probably have to trade struts. That's a lot out the window. Now, they will probably play Jalen Tyson,

their first-round draft pick from a couple years ago, a little bit more. But that's a lot of depth to sacrifice to get under the second apron and also add up a piece, who frankly is, you know, a question mark. So I'm just, you know, I'm not in love with the concept of how they've potentially are hurting their depth here. So I'm going to say barely under, but I'll probably be lean under right now. I'm leaning a little bit under. One of the reasons is, man, James Hardin is going to be, what, 37?

Is it is his birthday somewhere around the corner? Like I feel like in September. Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And at August 26, he turns 37. That's a lot of miles. That's a lot of minutes. Like Cleveland, I think when you think of some of those names that you talked about, like that's the fabric of the ball club that, you know, not just the stars,

but the guys who do the little things. Like when I say I have questions about Philly, it's who's going to do the things that doesn't show up in a statute. Like, those guys are the guys that did the things that don't show up. in the statute that enables Donovan Mitchell to sort of focus on, you know, being an attacker and scoring and alleviates James Hardin from being hunted on defense to large degree. And I think this is, to large degree, a show of no confidence, not just based off of what happened with the Knicks.

They should have lost in the second round to Detroit. They could have lost in the first round to Toronto. Like, they basically got out of those series by the skin of their chin-in-chin-chin, and then it caught up with them when they went up against a superior team. and then now you're going to say you're a year older, who on that team amongst your key players still has much more upside than not? And it's only Evan Mobley,

but have they given the indication, has Evan Mobley given the indication that he's willing to take the assertive tone to be what his talent demands? Now, if he turns into that guy, then we're talking about a completely different ball club, But if he's going to be the highly effective player that you're always going to ask of, can he do more?

Why isn't he doing more? Then I think that, I don't say that limits them, but that puts a very hard and sure ceiling on what they're going to be, at least as a regular season ball clip. And I think that puts them somewhere around 46, 47 wins in this Eastern Conference. Yeah, I'm not saying they're going to win 35. I want to be clear. Like, I think that's about right. Right, right, yeah.

McMahon? I'm higher on them than you guys are. And look, Donovan Mitchell is a regular season winner. James Hardin's a regular season winner. We can talk about playoffs all you want, but Donovan Mitchell, the only time in his career, he won fewer than 47 games, was in the COVID season,

and that was a 50-win pace. Hey, that's a good point. That's a good point. I'm going back through Hardin now, trying to find the last time he won fewer. than 47 games. And I'm a decade back. I'm going to keep on going,

but it's been a while, man. And, uh, all right. It's compelling. That's compelling. So 2015, 16, the Dwight Mayor year in Houston was the last time that hardened, uh,

won fewer than 47 games. You know, Dean Wade. By the way, you could win 47, you could win 47 games this year in the East and be the three seat. Yeah. Dean Wade was a quality contributor. I,

I do think Tyson's going to, I think he's an emerging player. I think he's going to step into that role in those minutes and do well with that. You know, Mowgli needs to take a, he needs to just take a leap for them to be anything more than a cute little second round team. But I think they're probably a cute little second round team that wins 48 or more games. All right, fair enough. All right, we have to pick up the pace here. Miami Heat, sixth highest number at 46 and a half.

That represents, definitely represents a Janus bounce. from a year ago. Their team has got some holes on it. I don't know. It's, you know, Janus hasn't been healthy in a while. Like, this is assuming some pretty good Janus health here, Vince. And, I mean, they won 43 games last year, and the bump isn't even as massive as you would expect it to be

when you're adding a guy, you know, who's been in... Spolstra squeezes out regular seasons. He's always maximizing the regular season. Absolutely. And while I think that error expostra has managed more, gotten more out of a little, it's going to be different this year when you have to figure out how many games is Janus going to play? Like when you look at the last few years or, you know, just the last few years, you know, the health has been an issue at least later in the year. How would you maximize the spacing between Janus and Bam? How would you maximize the usage between Janus and Bam?

I have a feeling that there'll be a better team later than early. That 46 feels, I want to say ambitious, but I could see them winning about 45 games and then being held on wheels because my question is about their shooting. Like one of the things and shot creation outside of, be honest, that was one of the reasons why I was thinking that LeBron was ticketed for Miami because he would be able to fit in much better there.

Yeah, he would have probably played point car. Yeah, and Davy on Mitchell's a great defender, but you're asking him to do a lot of that initiation. I think once again, that's going to hurt them in the half court. I think Janus and Bam, defensive, I think they're going to be really good. I think on the regular season, there's going to be nights where they struggle with shooting, where they struggle with spacing,

and I think it catches up to in the regular season in a way that it won't hurt them as much in the playoffs. Yeah, I'll be quick here. I'm going under. I think that it's going to take. a while for Janice and Bam to figure out the fit. I don't think there's enough shooting for them to really be able to maximize that. And then the question about Janus's durability.

I'll go under here. Yeah, I'm leaning under two, but more because I just think that it's going to be hard to get in the high 40s in the Eastern Conference. I just think it's going to be. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Okay, in the West, the clippers are off the board. Yeah. So why are the Raptors on the board here at 45 and a half?

Probably because they won 46 last year with Brandon Ingram in the starting lineup. So it's maybe a little bit, but I thought they overachieve last year. This is one where Bon Tempts kind of taking a victory lap for most of the season because that was pretty down on the Raptors going into the year. Oh, cross-country bond temps. But, you know, I think they overachieve last year, even if Kauai is there, how many games, you know, playing 65, is he playing 60? I don't know.

So I'll go under here as well. I'm going under because I don't know who the hell is going to be on their roster. Yeah, I mean, I can't even, I mean, and let's say they get Kauai. Kauai, if he's the player he was last year, like, that's amazing. But, I mean, it's a huge unknown. And here's the thing, not just the injury, but is Kauai going to suffer any type of penalty from the NBA. You know what I mean?

On top of the regular maintenance that comes with a Kauai Leonard, what if he only plays 30 regular season games because of all those things? Can they win enough games to just not be in a play in? Like, to me, that's the question. So just being the big unknown, I would say, Hunter. There's a lot riding on how this Kauai trade goes down.

Like, I don't think it, like, is going to determine the champion or anything, But this is a very significant thing that, and I'm talking to, you know, executives and stuff, and they, like, trust me, you know, it's, we're in the dead zone here in August, but this is being discussed a lot. People are watching this a lot. There's a, you know, it's, this is a really big deal. We're not talking about it every day on ESPN because it's NFL season, but it should be. It should be like a, you know, it's the biggest topic right now in the league. Well, when Adam Silver decides to make a decision, you know, I don't know, 2031 or so, then we'll talk about it then. I mean, stuff keeps coming out. Is he just waiting for a try to retire first? Like, what the hell is happening? I mean, stuff keeps coming out. All right. Are the Indiana Pacers fans annoyed that their team, which when we last saw them essentially trying, was in game seven on the road in the head when Tyrese Halliburton had that terrible injury,

happen, that they are only 45 and a half over under. Well, Tyrese Halliburton was annoyed that he wasn't on national TV for his return and wasn't even at home. So, you know, I'm sure that I'll point out that two years ago, they went, they won 50 games and they were really good in the second half. They were like way better in the second half. If Halliburton himself, then they're going to be over 44 and a half. They've also upgraded its center since then.

as an upgrade over Miles Turner. I think this is a pretty solid over. Yeah, I think so, too. Like, he's been playing 5-on-5 since April. Like, they just, they weren't doing the Jason Tatum thing. There was no reason for them to try to rush him. They were tanking. But just in general.

But no, Jason Tatum, from the moment that he got hurt, he basically put, you know, he put the fast forward button on everything that he was doing. He basically marketed like, I'm going to come back. That was not the strategy in Indiana and, you know, for good reason. And I do think despite this being a gap year, they do have continuity that, you know, and continuity to me, Rick Carlisle, to me, top-by coaching the NBA still can take yours and be his,

can beat his and take yours, like that sort of thing. He's still that level of coach to me. I think if Halliburton himself, I think they'll win comfortably over 44-4-5 games. It's a big sliding door's moment. Think if they had just gotten a little bit of luck and had gotten that number four pick instead of number five and had to give it to the flippers.

That's a big moment. Yeah, I like him over too. I think Zubach is a very good fit. Now, the thing about Zubach is they like to run, and Zubach doesn't. And, you know, Turner spread the floor, which is what they need, and Zubach doesn't.

But I think what he can do defensively is a potential, you know, significant upgrade. Defendipally on the glass and run and pick and roll, you know, he's great at the short role. I like him for them. Living, still living in the play-in zone here with their new coach,

friend of the podcast, Sean Sweeney, Orlando Magic 9th at 43 and a half. Also, the Hawks, the friend of the pod, Tim Bontas, that was I say that? No, he's not. They're tied for ninth. 43 and a half, Magic and Hawks.

Okay. I'll start with the Magic. There were a 45 win team last year. With Franz missing more than half the season due to injuries. And with Paulo, like, it was a pretty toxic situation for whatever reason. With Paulo in particular and Jamal Mosley, that relationship deteriorated. We talked about it during the season last year. So, like, none of us were surprised that they moved on from Jamal Mosley, who was also a friend of the pod, by the way.

But, you know, I don't think they're way over, but I do think they are over 43.5. And I think they're right in that 45 plus range that they've been occupying. That's tough for me because, like Wendy said, when you think about all the really good teams in the Eastern Conference, like not everybody can win 50 games. And it's not an indictment of what they've done.

Like, Desmond Bain, like he had early struggles. and then in the second half he didn't. You know what I mean? Like you shot 43% from three after you all start break, like you start to really figure some stuff out. But if your second best player is a health concern, night after night, and I like Paulo Ban Carroll's talent,

but I wonder is he going to harness that? I think they're probably a little bit under, maybe 43. It's a proof of year for Paula. You know, if Jamal is the problem, well, you know, okay. It's a prove it here now. They played, so they, they got off to a decent start last year, but they played 500 basketball for a big stretch of last year. Now, I know that Paolo had the injury,

but they were a 500 team for, you know, most of the season. So I think, I think they got off to like, well, now that I'm looking at, they were 15 and 10. So that's not exactly a blazing star. Andrews hit. Yeah. And Bain got off to a slow start. I think Bain's going to be more comfortable this year.

Yeah. They had a seven-game win streak and a six-game losing streak. That's what I remember. Anyway, they're probably better than 43 wins. Their talent. As for the Hawks, Jalen Johnson is one of the most undervalued players in the conference, I think. Also a great contract. 30-milled for him.

I'm like, that's a lot of money, but my NBA standard, that's a really good bargain. You know it's crazy about that contract? And number one, there's no option in it. There's no raises in it. Yeah, just flat. So it's percentage of the cap, because the cap's going to go up every year, its percentage of the cap goes down. Like, that's, you know, that's, they got a couple of wings.

You know, I don't know what they can expect out of Kingston Fleming's. I don't know if that's, you know, I don't know if they'll much there. But, you know, they did some things at the margins and they're, you know, hoping for a healthy season. And C.J. McCollum, like, after they got him last year, they just won a lot more. Once they committed to him as a starter, they closed the season on a 19 to 4 kick

before, you know, mailing in the regular season finale. Kind of like over. And they gave to Knicks all they can handle. I kind of like the over. Until the finale of that series. Well, true. I kind of, well, they got, they, they, they inflicted more wounds on the, on the Knicks than anybody else. Absolutely.

Yeah. Absolutely. I'm kind of, I don't like you're saying over. This is third one in a row. My only hesitancy, because I, listen, CJ, I mentioned that stat. I like bringing in Lou Dore. I like bringing in Aaron Wiggins, role players who know how to win, you know, or have been part of, obviously a winning team before.

The only thing I didn't like about the Hawks all season was hiring bond temps. As long as they keep him the hell away. Well, the thing about the Hawks, they have, they're in a decent pick situation, and they have like 40 million an expiring contract. Because remember they gave like Jock Landale a one-year deal.

Like they could be a team that is in the hunt if there's a mid-season move because of what they do. I mean, you can't bake that in. All right. The Charlotte Hornets had their best season in like a, you know, seven or eight years last year and then decided to take their team their direction, traded lamello ball, traded Miles Bridges. 39 and a half, Vince. I mean, don't get me wrong.

I am huge on Conquiple. I like Brandon Miller. Like, I like the fact. Hey, if your thought was we need to give these two young guys as much runway on the floor. in the locker room as possible, I'm 100% with you. 100% with you. But I don't know if that translates to

being more than what they were last season, a playing team that, you know, if Bamatabio doesn't get hurt, you know, in that game, you know, maybe they don't even come out of, what was that the 9-10 game that they were in last year. I wonder there's going to be a little, like, clarity, but regression.

You know what I mean? Because one thing about La Malleball, He can win you some regular season games with a lot of that. Without question. Hell yes. A lot of that stuff. He's a, he's not a loser by any stretch.

You know what I mean? So I- So sounds like you're saying under. I'm saying under, I think. So, you know, I've been as critical as mellow as anybody,

but the simple fact is he was a driving force of their winning last year. Offensive rating with him on the floor, 123.2. That's historically elite. Off the floor, one 10.6. That's not very good. you know, that's, look, they brought in Dennis Schroeder,

that's a trade that tells you they're not trying to take too much of a step back, to, you know, give them another creator to go along with Cody White. But they made those trays, as you said, to say, look, we're not on the verge of something big now. We want to build around these young guys, and they were willing to take a step back to try to give themselves a long-term higher ceiling. But I do think it's a step back. from 44 wins last year. You know, I think they're in the high 30s, but I'll go under here.

They're giving big roles to Kobe White and Nasree. No, Nazreed is a big part of the lamello trade in addition to the draft capital. I'm not sure those guys are lifting the boat. I think those are players you'd want to have, but I'm not sure they're lifting the boat. So, all right, now we get into teams that were tankers last year. Wizards, this is kind of high.

This would surprise me. The Wizards are definitely trying to win. And they're going to have Trey Young and they're going to have Anthony Davis. AD is not going to get a contract out of the gate. He's going to be highly motivated. Ace or AJ DeBanza, you know, you're going to expect to, you know, come out of the gates, putting up numbers. And they could even do, they could even be a team that looks to be a buyer midseason because they're, they want to get into the playing. But 35 and a half is a, like, that's a big jump. From 17, more than double? I mean,

this is a weird number, man. Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm underrating Trey Young. I mean, Trey Young is a guy who gets teams to the play in. Maybe that's, maybe I should pay more attention to it. Look, the Pistons made this kind of jump a couple years ago. That was bringing in a new coach, though. Um, and you said AD's going to be motivated to do what, to get out of town or to, because I don't think he's getting paid by Washington. I just don't think he's paid by Washington. I don't think AD, I think AD's a pretty business savvy guy. I think Rich Paul is agents, a pretty business savvy guy. I think that is a black cloud hanging over this organization. Wow. Hey, Trey Young just got $212 million and they told

AD, let's see how you play, buddy. AD who's won a champion. And I don't think, But here's my thing. If you trade for AD, you knew the extension talk would come in. So unless you're willing to go there, I don't think you should have traded for. Look, here's what I know. When AD is motivated, he is a brilliant player. Show me the incentive. I'll show you the result.

No. He is highly incentive. He is motivated and when AD is healthy. Well, he's going to be healthy. He hasn't played in months. Oh, he's going to be? Wasn't he supposed to be healthy? Wasn't he supposed to be motivated in Dallas?

I mean, AD, you can't count on AD being healthy. I'm sorry, unfortunately. It's just bad truth. When he got to Dallas, he was unhealthy, and they played him. He will be healthy going into the regular season. Was he healthy going into the training camp last year? Because that lasted about a week and a half. All right, fair enough.

I'm just saying, show me the incentive, and I'll show you the result. He's highly incentivized out of big season. This is, we're going to move on. This number is too high. Okay. Yes, the number's too high. Chicago Bulls. They're not going to be good.

27 and a half. I like the over here. I thought, really? I think Norm Powell is a nice boost for them. And I think Caleb Wilson's got a chance to be a, have a hell of a rookie year. I think Caleb Wilson might win rookie of the year, but, you know, rookies almost never drive winning, as you know. Yeah, but they've got, they've got some, I mean, I don't think they're good, but they've got some pieces around, though. And we're a year removed from all roads lead to 39.

Well, I understand that. But look at the Eastern Conference. I mean, you know, most nights they're going to go up. They're going to have a talent deficit. Most nights, almost every night. I'm just glad they chose the direction. I'm just glad that they, I'm glad that Michael Reinsdorf put his foot down and they decided to go.

And now you've got Caleb Wilson, now you can figure out what to do with Patrick Williams. Now you finally go on somewhere. I don't know if they know what to do with Patrick Williams, but yeah. Look, I've worked in Chicago for a few years. Maybe I have an affinity for the Bulls and some of their fans who are still living off of six championships in eight years. Like, I get it. But Caleb Wilson, I'm with you guys. Give me KG vibes, but I don't think they're going to win 28 games this year.

I was a little worried about the way Noah Asengay played in Summer League. However, Modus Buzellis, you know, you're looking for a step forward from him. You're obviously going to be showing up to see Caleb Wilson. and, you know, maybe a Senge will look better. But, you know, he missed almost all last season with the shoulder injury. And then he came out and I don't think was that great in Summer League. 27 and a half, I'll probably wonder. Milwaukee Bucks way down there, 24 and a half.

Yeah, they stink under. Yeah, they're not going to be good. But, yeah. Big man, that was just so mean. Listen, man, they hung a banner with the honest. Everything was worth it, but you knew the aftermath was going to be painful. The aftermath is here. What's going on with that investigation to Gary Trent?

I wish I had information. Again, I think the punishment is like, yeah, pay them. Cool. Right. Tyler Hero, I think, is going to gun and put, I would put it this way. I would pick Tyler Hero on your fantasy team this year. Unless efficiency is part of it, because I think he's just going to be a gunner, not necessarily an efficient gunner. Most three-point attempts this year might be Tyler Hero. He won't let it fly.

He's going to let it fly like Bam, out of Biles' fists in a Las Vegas ballroom. over under 24 and a half. I agree. I agree. I agree with him. Yeah. It's hard to pick a team losing under 24 games, but it's just too hard in these.

All right. Brooklyn Nets. By the way, where's their pick? Is that? It's tied up with New Orleans and Atlanta. I can't remember how it all goes. Oh, yeah.

One of those types. We need Bobby Marks here. Tied with the bucks for the worst projection in the east, the Nets of 24 and a half. not impressed with the Julius Randall trade. I mean, it at least gives them a primary creator, but they stink and they owe the Rock. It's a swap.

It's going to be a bad situation in Brooklyn. I think they win more than 24 games. I don't think they're going to be good. I don't think they're going to be good, but I think they win more than 24 games. Maybe they'll win 25. Michael Porter and Julius Randall are going to have nights when they're clicking and they're going to beat you.

You cannot roll the ball out there. but you guys have heard me say this before, not like I invented it, but the easiest way to guarantee yourself losing in the NBA is to play, give a lot of minutes to young guards. And, I mean,

they're compelled to play Mikel Brown and Agor Demon a lot. Those are two top eight picks, and they have to play them, and they're going to lose. I just like, I mean, Now, they are highly incentivized to do everything they can to get into the play in because they don't control their pick. So that would lead you to believe.

And I also think Jordi Fernandez has been coaching with one hand tied behind his back because the team didn't want to win. And I do think he's a good young coach. I agree. You know, he got extended because, you know, he did a good job. But it's just, it's hard for me to believe in your team when you're. going to play, your two lead guards are going to be in their first and second years. It's just, it's a bridge too far. I like Mike Hill, but I think, I think, I think he's really talented.

I'm with you. He's going to struggle. I agree. But, you know, there's going to be some knights. Yeah, yeah. Luca struggled, you know, in terms of driving, winning. By the way, to answer my own question about the bucks, their pick's going to be either to the Pelicans or the Hawks, it's definitely not going to be theirs.

They won't have, but they don't have a pick next year. That's a bad situation. less than ideal. They have, they have, they have, they have Miami. Maybe they don't. Maybe it's farther out. That ain't next year. All right. This concludes our over unders on the Eastern Conference. I don't know if, uh, if I had enough unders.

I, I somehow said, gave this big speech about taking unders and then I went over on the Pacers, magic and hawks. Well, you know what I thought you're going to do? I thought you were only going to be firm on your overs and mealy mouth. under's. But you came a little bit stronger than I anticipate. Paul's. All right. Thank you with that. All right. All right. You're cut off. You're cut off. It's a Sunday night. I'm on European

time. You're cut off. Thank you very much to Devon, who's joined us as a special producer on this episode. Thank you to Miles. Jackson was unavailable, and that's what we get. We get you misbehaving like that. Jackson or Wrigley. Yeah, he's in Chicago. All right. Thank you so much to Vince and McMahon. Thank you for watching. Listen to the Hoop Collective.

We'll talk to you later this week. Adios amigos.