Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - NBA Finals Game 2 Reaction: Thunder Bounce Back

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by NBA champion Iman Shumpert to react live to Game 2 of the NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers. The guys break down SGA’s huge game, the major impact of the OKC role players, Haliburton’s off night, where the series goes from here and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing just a few minutes after the Thunder's 123 to 107 game two victory to even the finals at 1-1. I'm here with NBA veteran, 2016 finals champion.

How often you wear your ring in Munchumper? You know, I don't wear it at all, but I've caught so much slack for being here at the finals and not having it. Well, Richard Jefferson's wearing that calves ring around here. I saw that. I have to go back home, and when I go back home, it will be back and be on full display. All right. So that was a ring-worthy performance from the Thunder tonight. It was.

That was how they looked for most of the season. I'm sure the fans here at Paycom Center were like, that's the team that we watched for the last six months. That's the team. And that's the DNA that you talk about when you start saying, why did we change our lineup? Yeah. They kept it changed, but. I know, but that's the feeling of it. When you see them play that well, it's like, why do we do that when we can do that?

Yeah, right. You know what I mean? I think that watching tonight, I think I saw Shay at least two or three times consciously say, I can get this shot up. I got to get somebody else involved. I completely agree with you. Like, he was very conscious tonight of, and he had two of them where it was like right there, feet in the paint, where game one, it was a spin, Pivot, leaner, shot, fade away. Today it was survey.

Maybe keep the dribble, spin, pivot, kick it out to the top. Even if they missed the three, everybody was in rhythm. Everybody felt like he trusts them. Hats off to the thunder. They cleaned it up. Yeah, he didn't play a bad game in game one, but he took 30 shots. You know, he talked yesterday on the off day about how much he worships Kobe. Yeah.

There was a footage that came out from his camp a few years ago where he said Kobe was the best player of all time. Mike was second and LeBron was third. We don't have to get into that. My point is he loves Kobe, right? Woo! But Shea took 30 shots in two of the last three games, and not even Kobe ever did that in his career.

Not even Kobe took 30 shots in two out of three playoff games. Like the amount of shots that Shea took, and I'm not saying he was hogging the ball. I'm just saying he was squeezing it a little tight. He only had three assists in game one. That's the few assists he had in any playoff. game this whole season and look there was a lot of other stuff that went on tonight yeah but shea took 21 shots in this game and had eight assists and i think that set the tone for a much more

under control it's a way better balance and even even in the point column i mean what did you miss out on what did he had 38th of the night yeah you missed out on four points yeah well he didn't have to play to the end you only he had he got to come out early because this game was in hand but everything that we were talking about as far as getting what you want we know that he can get what he wants If he can't get what he wants, he can make a tough shot. So with him, it doesn't ever have to be forced. Everything can be chill. Well, not too chill.

But everything can be calm. Everything can be practiced, coached. It doesn't have to look like he's pulling it out of the hat all the time. And I felt like they did a great job today. I didn't see Jalen Williams looking stuck in no man's land a lot today. He still didn't play a great game. He didn't play great. But he was good.

He was good. He was in rhythm. Yeah, that's a good point. He looked like he was part of the team. It didn't look like he was just. standing and then he get the ball and try and make something happen. Like I just love, I love when the Thunder play without holes in their game. The ball doesn't stop moving.

It always looked like they know what to do. They share the sugar, but it looks like everything is crisp. I felt like game one was the first time we saw those like slow, lazy passes that you might steal literally because there was indecisiveness in their game. And I felt like today they were very controlled, very poised, and very hungry. even when that third quarter started. It was like, if y'all think that we've turned it off, we have not. We're still excited.

We're still ready to play. They knew they needed to send a message. I feel like the message was sent. So we were sitting here the other day. We saw Shea walk right by us very quickly after the game ended. So Scott Van Pelt is right back behind us. He does his show right behind us. They like scramble out to get his set up as fast as possible.

He would get him on the air. He walked right past Van Pelt, okay? I think Halliburton was still on Van Pelt's set. He walked right by him. and he walked into the family room. The Thunder family room is behind us at that end. The locker room is on this end. Actually, the media, he did his press conference,

and he comes down, and he walked right into the family room, and he told everybody in the family room, because everybody's in there pretty nervous. You know, they watched him play, but the families were a little nervous, and he said, it'll be all right. He was the first player in there, despite him, you know, being the star player.

He was the first player in there, or one of the first players, maybe the V-first. He told him, it's going to be all right. So he was already saying chill, get myself back to neutral moments after that game. It's crazy. Coach Calapari was here with us before the game. He sure was. And he said that that even keel and that nonchalant attitude sometimes is used to hide his teammates.

And I didn't, as critical as I was of that statement, just because I think it's coming off of watching. What do you mean by that? I don't understand. He says that it's just another game. He does that so that if you do ridicule now, you're going at him. It's like a defense mechanism. It's a defense mechanism. I'm already nonchalant.

Right. I'm going to be nonchalant about this. Right, right. It's just another game. Right. If it is more than a game, I will deliver that message to my teammates. But right now, y'all are going to deal with nonchalant. Yeah.

You all got to deal with it. And I didn't, initially I felt like it had to trickle down. You wanted to tear up the lock. A hundred percent. Yeah. 100 percent. That's me, though. You know what I mean?

That's my energy. I would be the guy on that team that it would take Shay to come up to me and say, oh, gee, just chill. You know what I mean? Just chill. Like, I got it. But it's like my fire in my stomach wouldn't allow that after we threw something like that away. I mean, I could get past it up 30 minutes after, but I'm definitely tearing the locker room. Well, I remember going into a heat locker room after a playoff loss one time.

and seeing ice all over the floor. Oh, yeah. And I think it was our, I think was our man, UD, who did it. We should ask about that. Udinas, Haslam, for sure. So, but yeah, Shay, that's their style. Get back to neutral. But I love that because that's still the leadership of that to say,

let me hurry up and be first. Because usually he's always like middle to last. Yeah, he's getting his stuff ready. You got to get his treatment. You got to do his thing. Media is usually taking along. You saw how fast he came out the other day. That's what I'm saying.

We were barely, our podcast, barely started. He was out here. But to go out there and address the family room. Yeah. And those are usually the closest people to the locker room because they get the trickles of the conversations that come out of the locker room for him to go in there and corral them, understanding that they have the ears of his team.

Yeah. That shows me a different level of maturity. I'm not going to completely take it back, Shea. Shout out to you for knowing your personnel. You got to, you do you. You got to do you. For sure. I'm going to do me.

I heard you say to Cal, How come you didn't come recruit me out of Chicago? Because he started naming a lot of guys. Like, you know, that guy played for me, that guy played for me, that guy played. I'm like, bro, I ain't really get too many letters and calls from you, though, Cal. Well, I'm not that good. You were good. I believe you're a first-round pick, sir.

So Halliburton. Struggle. It didn't look like a bad game because he had 17 points, but he had 12 of those in the fourth quarter. That's not. That's a box score doesn't look bad. That looked bad today. That was the first time I saw him today. So he's seven of 13 with ten.

He's 7 to 13 with six assists, 17 points, but again, he had 12 of the 17 in the fourth quarter. It was 3-33. He was at 3-3-3-3-5. He had five turnovers. Yeah. He had three points. He had three points. So it was 3-3-3-5.

For three-quarters, basically. And it's like, bro, unacceptable. Yeah. And not unacceptable in the regard of you're not shooting it well. Don't shoot it well. We've seen you do that. Since when have you not rebounded the ball? And to me, that felt like something's going on in your head.

Don't get me wrong. Granted, he's been playing his ass off. You are allowed to take one game and have some hiccups happen. Yeah. But if they're going to be successful, especially when they get back to Indiana, I need to see in the defensive rebound column, six to eight rebounds when the third quarter comes. Because that'll let me know he's getting pushed out to get one outs. Exactly. When he gets to rebound and he can go, that makes a big difference to them.

So Chet Holmgren had an absolute, he had a dog game, a dog first finals game. You could tell he came back. First off, they played double big a little bit more. That's something they hadn't been, you know, Hartnstein and Chet played together a little bit. And by the way, they went from minus 17 in rebounds in game one to plus eight in rebounds. That's a 25 rebound swing. Yeah. But Chet got it going from the first quarter.

Yeah. And that's what we were looking for. That's what we were talking about. If the Thunder are playing Thunder basketball, he's able to score efficiently, and it should look effortless. It should look like he's just part of it. He can attack closeouts.

He can get out there. What I was impressed with was the amount of times in transition he was with them, the amount of deflections that they got. Cason Wallace, I thought, played great minutes. Yeah. Great minutes. So did Kendrick Williams? Yeah.

Yeah, I just felt like. Kendrick Williams played seven minutes and was plus 15. Yeah, for guys that haven't, you know, gotten to. Jason Wallace was their best plus minus guy in the whole starting lineup, plus 12. You're exactly right. He played good minutes. That's what I mean. It was just, it's the way, the way they go about plugging somebody in and then they don't have to worry about getting that guy up to speed.

I just love that. One, first off, I love that about the finals period because both these teams do that. They plug guys in that you're just. like, I don't know if this is time to just throw somebody in with no rhythm. Right, right. And you see them playing and they're playing for them. They're looking for them. It's like they know each other.

It's like, I don't know if they run different lineups in practice and everybody's just comfortable. The Thunder play different lineups all year long. He's always changing his lineups so that when he gets to the finals, people are comfortable. I'm sorry. There's no way I could wait for the finals and do that. Hats off to them for doing it. Richard Jefferson just walked by wearing his ring, Shump. You got a, he's got better security than you do, but sorry.

Oh, man. But, yeah, when I also look at this, I look at Hardinstein, plus 17. Yeah. Yeah, their bench killed Indy tonight. He didn't have to play in the starting lineup to be productive. Yeah, eight rebounds. Exactly. When you look at stuff like that and you see the plus minus,

You start to understand how much of a lineup attacks the adjustment on the other hand or how much just having a guy out there to sometimes Hardinstein's greatest attribute is being big, running down here and it takes two of yours to block him out. Now somebody else gets an offensive rebound. Somebody gets a tap. Somebody gets something to happen. And I think that capitalizing off the broken play was an obvious thing for the Thunder Day. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

So also off their bench, Caruso hits four threes, Aaron Wiggins. Huge game, Aaron Wiggins. You like that? You know what? I didn't used to like it. I like it for the Thunder. When he used to do it on the Lakers, I ain't all the way to understand it. I'm here now.

Well, your hair is doing much better than his. He's trying to put something up there. Hey, I'm with you now. Crusoe, I'm with you now. Crusoe was an absolute hellion on defense in this game. He drove them. This was an apex Caruso game because he's just being an absolute pest on defense. He didn't get credited with a steel, but my God, it felt like he affected so much stuff.

Deflections. And then he hits those threes. He was a helion. I thought he was huge. And then Aaron Wiggins, five threes. I mean, Aaron Wiggins has never played. a more impactful game in his career. Yeah, but like you were saying,

they are prepping, prepping their guys for these moments. It seems unorthodox when I watch it. I don't know if I'm like jealous that I wasn't around for the game to be like this because I'm like, oh, this wouldn't happen on the cast. You know what I mean? Because everything was regimented, is that what you mean?

Everything, yeah, everything was just so, you knew that, at the end of the game, we're going to get shots from one of three guys. You know what I mean? One of two, a lot of times. One of two, but I always said three because it could either be a JR or a Kevin Love that, yeah, we know who the ball is going to. But if you make an error on defense or you send a double, the person that's going to make you pay as a shooter.

So I'll always say three guys because we know if you do a goal. a great job playing defense on our star. They're going to deliver that ball to him. And when you make that mistake, it's a three in the NBA. So Don Nelson, legendary coach, Hall of Fame coach. He's 85 years old. He was inducted or he was honored before the game with the Chuck Daly Award, Lifetime Achievement Award.

And he did a press conference before the game. And he talked about how much he loves watching these two teams because this is the way he wanted to play, small and fast. Well, they're bigger, bigger than he ever had. Right. And fast. He loves watching the two of them play. also by the way wore Lucas,

Lucas shoes. Oh, were. And announced that he's wearing him as a protest for the Mavrix trading. Just like, just in case you want to know, but anyway, that's the here and or there. He's like, this is how I wanted to play. Yeah. And I love watching the two teams. And that's what you're talking about. You're saying that

if you were, because like, you know, I feel like that's what I got to do. You could have played a game like Aaron Wiggins if you were. Without, I know. I got to play. That's the way I felt like I got to play when I got traded in Sacramento. I got to play upbeat. I got to to play next to Deeran Fox, probe with the ball,

do whatever I wanted, knowing I could throw it to him, and now he gets to go downhill off the close-out. People forget you played point guard. Oh, yeah, for sure. Like early in your New York Knicks days, right? For sure. But if you had this type of system that they're running now where OKC in Indiana, they both play a free if you would have taken away somebody, I become the

point guard, and then it doesn't matter if I'm playing point guard. You know what I mean? I feel like it was a little more open. I feel like the game changed into that, which I love that. I'm not mad at it anymore. You know, back then I was mad, but not anymore. I just love the constant change of basketball to get better. But, yeah, watching them, I think I am a little envious that it's like, wow, bro, this is.

They would have wanted you, if you played now, they would want you to shoot seven to ten threes a game. They'd be like, Shump, shoot that ball. That's fine, as long as I can shoot my pull-up. Like, if I could shoot the Tyrese Halliburton, the nice little pull-up at 50, 18 feet. I always like playing that top of the key game, playing at the elbow. If I could play like that,

y'all want three, seven threes. I'll chuck a couple of threes up. That's fine. But I love their balance attack. I love that nobody hangs their head. There's no, man, make that a three. I've never seen this team say, that got to be a three.

They be having a toe right on the line. Don't nobody get mad. They just all pumped their fists and get up to play defense. And I love that about them. I love that about OKC. OKC today had. very short memory.

I thought they did a couple of times where they play a good defense. They get an offensive rebound. We watched in game one, OKC, you felt that happened. Just toward the end, by the way, because they were in control of game one. But down the stretch, you could see them get deflated when something like that were happening. The Pacers made a couple of runs in this game, such in the second half. And they did not care. And OKC just pushed them back.

Real talk. So let me ask you this. what do you think the mindset for the pastry should be? Obviously, they come here, they go one to one. But how do you, how do you, they've been outplayed a majority of the minutes. Now, it doesn't matter what the majority of the minutes are, what matters is the score, but they were outplayed a majority of the minutes. How would you feel if you were them?

If I'm Indiana, one, we're playing into the energy of the crowd when we get home because that's what we stole game one for. I'm also coming in with the mindset that we only expected to get one of two. We didn't expect to get one that early, but we expected to get one of two right here to put ourselves in position. So if you're Indiana, though we didn't play well today, you sit there and say, hey, man, we did exactly what we came to do. And there's no way our guy plays bad when we get to Indiana.

There's zero chance. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. One thing I will say, so the Pacers in the second half, and it never got, I think the closest maybe it got was 12 maybe. In the second half, the Pacers did score 66 points. Again, they shot 54% in the second half. He didn't feel it because the Thunder held on to their composure. They responded to everything, every run they responded. But the Pacers did have a very offensively strong second half in this game.

Yeah. So they've, you know, I don't know what that's worth. but what perk is just screaming perk there's a microphone perk my god I love it I love it though

you want to know why it's the passion it's because he's a thunder at heart it's the passion behind Kendrick Perkins but seeing Tyreys Halliburton also finally find

some wiggle room to play a little better if I'm Indiana I do feel a lot better knowing that because there's something about of course they say all the time you can't take those points with you you can't take that with you can't take that with you there is a mental advantage to know man I just felt like it was a lid on the rim I didn't play well I didn't perform well but I did figure it out today I didn't come back with a miraculous comeback into a buzzer leader. But I didn't stop playing. I didn't stop rebounding. I didn't stop sharing the sugar. Might not always led to an assist, but I played the right way. That has to feel good for Tyrese Halliburton

to clean it up at the end, be able to look at the stats sheet and say he didn't do nothing out there. And then saying confidently, I'm going to go into this next game and I'm going to play well. Obie is not going to play. Obie Tim is not going to play terrible like that again. I'm not sure what's that. I'm just settled down. But my boy is going up an octave. He's got to check his hearing. So I'm going to say this.

Halliburton, in the last two years against this team, he averaged 11 shots a game. This year and last year. First two games, he got 13 shots. When they are at their best, is when Halliburton gets up over 20 points. They're 8 in 1 when he scores over 20 points. But when they've got Lou Dort or Caruso on him or Kason Walls, he can't get shots up. Like, seriously, I think the first thing for Tyre's, Halliburton, he's got to get some shots. Like 13 shots is not enough for him. But it's 13 shots.

I don't want it to be these unaggressive threes. He had at least three threes today that I felt like we're just unaggressive whatever threes. If you make them cool, but you really didn't do much to have those shots go in. They weren't within the flow. They weren't what we've been used to seeing out of him where it's like you've been going downhill so much that they're backing off so much that you got all the time in the world to line that thing up, get your elbow on the lip of the rim. I would like to see them. Well, what does that mean? Get your elbow on the lip of the rim. I've never heard that before. People sometimes, like, if you're getting ready to shoot before the ball's all the way up,

like they say your elbow wasn't on the, but if you can look as a visual. The way you see it, if you can see your elbow already on the rim, like. You're at the apex of your shot. So it's all about getting that lift and getting that on there. But I say that with Tyrese because you see his, you see him look at his elbow almost before he shoots a shot. And I feel like that's where the comfortable, it's like just to line it up. You know when he's doing that he's feeling good.

Yeah, but it was like, I just saw, like, he was like looking at the rim and like hoping it went in. And it was, it was, I've never seen. I'm sorry, I've never seen him do that where he's looking and just hoping. Like usually he looks like I'm under control. They don't get it, but I do. And today it looked like he was searching a little bit. He looked like a little bit of an old man. He looked like Jalen Williams from game one to me.

And I can't imagine him having another game like that. But I think that the way Rick Carlisle could help him, crazy that perk was just standing here. If they could set that perk screen where they come up, the big, because OKC's bigs do. a great job of getting up and showing different coverages, right? They push them out of their offense, really. Sometimes they'll go into a little drop with you,

a one, two, dribble drop to let their guy get back. But they are usually up to touch with their man. When doing that, if Indiana could just set that screen, but you set the screen on the big, you never screen the guard. Halliburton can do it in and out or whatever and just get downhill, but I understand what you're saying. He needs something easy. He gets something easy for everybody else.

need something easy. Get into the lane, quick layup, floater, whatever, two feet in the paint to where he can establish himself in the first quarter. The thing about Halliburton is he's, he's not an elite scorer. No. He averages 18 points. Like, that's great. Don't give me wrong, but he's not in the top 30 in scoring. But when he does score, by the way, when he gets 20 points in the postseason, he also averages 10 assists. Without a doubt. So it's not just one or the other. When he's super aggressive looking for his shot, it opens up his whole game. So, frankly, he needs a 20-10 game, you know, in game three. Right.

You know, and they've got to find a way to get him, because he's not generating the chances against his team. How much of it do you feel like has to be implemented from Rick Carlisle? It's been a lot of games now where what they're doing is not getting him enough. Yeah. You know, because, you know, Seacum, like Seaccombe only had 11 shots. He went three of 11. He wasn't at his best tonight.

He had that one stretch in the second quarter where he was looking for his shot a little bit. they run a democratic offense. They don't really run stuff for individual players. That's not the way they play. They're perfectly happy if Neesmith gets as many shots as Halliburton, if they win. But I'm just telling you, the way this team guarantees a victory is by getting, first off, getting over 110 points. They're undefeated when they get over 110 points.

They didn't get there tonight, 107. But they didn't defend tonight. Not like we've seen Indiana defend in previous. in previous years, previous games in the playoffs, period. We have not seen them have a game where they let guys just do whatever. I don't feel like their defense was on a string tonight. They had moments where they gave the effort that you see out of them. I don't want to say they didn't play hard.

They weren't five guys on a string tonight defensively. Yeah. Well, 123, what they gave up. Oh, yeah. And, you know, look, they scored 66. the second half like I said that's enough that's enough that's enough but they weren't able to get enough stops themselves because the thunder shot 49% he had 14 days they started down uh what they they saw 20 they were down 20 in the first half yeah so seeing that playing catch up

um they never got within striking range i think that's that's what we were talking so that was the difference so they were down i think 19 at the half today 19 or 20 19 i think game one they were down 12. That's a big difference. So now in the second half, when you get it down, when you get it down to 12, it would have been down to like three, four. So the thunder were able to push it out a little bit. That was something they didn't do in the game. Especially that, what was that third quarter of that 12-0 run, was it? Yeah, yeah. That 12-0 run. That's what killed me. For me. And what's odd is even when I saw that,

and in my mind, I'm like, ah, that's the one right there. that's the run that kills. Indiana still scares me. It's very weird. As bad as they were playing, they still, everything that they do, when they come down,

they just throw a pass, and I think, throw a pass and make a shot, I always think, oh, well, maybe we need another six to put them away. Maybe you need another four

to put them away. And I think that Indiana has to play off of that. I think they have to play off of that danger that they are never truly out of a game. Right. and they have to play into that. They have to lean into that. Well, there was a moment in the first half.

I think they got down by 23. That was like the biggest lead. Indiana goes on a 10-0 run. Okay, they cut it down to 13, or give or take, and Thundercall timeout, and they immediately get like five or six straight out of that timeout to push it back up. That's something that they didn't do in game one.

When Indiana came at them, they weren't able always to hold them off. So they pushed it back. So they were just more comfortable. They would just, you could just tell they played game. By the way, I think that really important stat on the Thunder. They're 17 and two now. They only had 19 losses all year.

They're 17 and 2 after losses. Yeah. They're 5 and 0 in the playoffs after losses. Like that's how you want to avoid getting beat. You don't lose multiple games in a row. That's how you go. In Indiana, the same? Well, Indiana's With the no two game

thing? Yeah, they hadn't lost two in a row in like 60 days until the last round. What I mean? They're very, they're very, It's amazing how these two teams match up on paper. Yeah. I think that if I'm Indiana, one, I'm going to tell my guys, we should have way more rebounds because we're getting way more stops.

We just didn't get any. Yeah. The rebounding was way better for, well, you can see it today. But we have to get stops to get rebate. The shots going in, it ain't no rebound. Right. Like, that's the issue, guys. There's no defensive rebounds to get.

Like, I want to say that y'all didn't rebound. That wasn't the case. Y'all rebounded. There just wasn't any available because y'all didn't get stops. Right. And you can't just string one stop together. You got to string three stops at a time. Three stops in a row or it doesn't count.

That's got to be their mindset. Yeah. Well, they also need, by the way, they had six, seven guys in double figures tonight. They just didn't have a, they just didn't have a guy to get hot. They needed a guy to get hot and there wasn't there. Yeah. But it's a serious. It's a series, Shump?

It's definitely a series. It's exciting now. We're going to head to Indiana. That's a tough arena to play in. I'm interested in this. Game three is going to be a very interesting game. One, because I want to see how the Thunder play on the road in the finals, just flat out. I want to see if they also use that line up on the road.

Something tells me they won't. I would go back to my old lineup. to my old lineup just to play off it, but I know they probably won't do that. The double big lineup was very effective tonight. They didn't play for that many minutes, but it was effective. Yeah, but I... You may want to start with a lineup that's very effective because you're going to be on the road. You don't want to get behind.

I get it. We'll see. It should be interesting. Or go out there and just start my guy Caruso. That would start as well. Whatever. Start my guy Caruso, man. All right.

So game three is Wednesday night. We'll be here with the Hoop Collective, me and Shump. Day of Game 3, the Tims will be back for a podcast that runs on Wednesday. Until then, Shump, look forward to it. Safe travels up to Indiana. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks for watching Hoop Collective.