Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - NBA Finals Game 3 Reaction: Pacers Make A Loud Statement

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by NBA champion Iman Shumpert to react live to Game 3 of the NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers. The guys talk the huge game from the Pacers��� bench, Haliburton stepping up, what went wrong for SGA, what adjustments the Thunder need to make, where the series goes from here and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, and we are here on the court at Game Bridge Fieldhouse. Immediately after the Pacers 116-107 Game 3 victory to take a 2-1 series lead, I am here with 2016 NBA champion, Iman Shumper.

Shump? Tasters are up 2-1. They're two wins from their first ever NBA championship. Well, we now know the gentleman's suite. talked about might be out of the question. What if it's the Pacers? It might just be the other way. I don't see it.

But I don't see it. But I see this going seven now. I think it got legs. I think it's great for basketball. I think the fans are going to have a lot more fun with it. Everybody was talking about how this was two small market teams. But I think this is what you want to see as far as a war. This is a chess match. This is adjustment.

Game in, game out. This is pressure on. and both the stars that are mentioning this conversation between SGA and Tyrese Halliburton, and I feel like they're living up to the caller. Yeah, look, let me just say right now, if anybody wants to talk about the ratings, and maybe that's your job, go ahead and do it. If you need to get your point off, go ahead and get your point off. If someone's talking about the ratings, they're not serious people.

They're not serious basketball people. Serious basketball people will talk about the quality of this game, which was excellent. This game had all of the markers that you need from Tyrese Halliburton to win. So we know that Halliburton, they're 32 and 4 or something like that when he scores over 20 points. They're now 9 and 1 in the playoffs. When he scores, actually 8 and 1 in the playoffs when he scores over 20, he had 22 and 11 assists. And he averages 11 assists. Right.

Here's our guy here. Oh, bro. Love this. We got the Netflix crowd. Reese is with his family right next to us. Love it. I don't know about those jeans, John. Now he'd be calling it.

I love it. John, he called you out on national TV about those jeans. You did tell me. What he's telling me, well, for our viewers, they can't see because Tyrese and John are right off the screen here. Love it. He told me before the game. He told me before the game.

don't count out, or don't bet against Tyrese Halliburton. That's what he told me before the game. Yeah. And I was just Tyrese said afterwards that he was making fun of his dad's jeans, which, I don't know, you're a fashion guy. What do you think of those jeans? They probably got him those jeans back when they was in. I see.

And dad just now makes it around wearing them. My dad does it all the time. These are the Netflix, the next flip stuff. He's got all this people around him. It's all the Netflix documentary. Oh, yeah. It's perfect. I think it's so fitting that they picked him.

Anyway, now that John was over here yelling at me about, and that wasn't yelling me, but we talked before the game, and he said, don't bet against my son, which, you know, what is he going to say? Bet against my son? But he's, you know, he knew his son would play a much better game. And look, he may not have hit the shots. You know, he hit four out of eight threes, which is huge for him.

But he went and he focused getting his feet back in the paint. And that was a major difference. He couldn't get in the freaking paint. But it wasn't just that. They got stops. Yeah. They got stops. You talk about that all the time.

You're a defender first. Because it's the reason why I became, I didn't start off a defender. It's just I had so many guys on the team that needed the ball to be effective that I'm like, how do I still keep myself sane while having to deliver the ball in on a postup? And my way of freedom was if I could just turn him, turn him, turn him, and make him make a mistake. I can get out there and it's easy. I don't have to think about it. I don't have to think about getting somebody involved.

I get to attack first. If I don't have anything, I can pull it out. I usually have delivered a pass that leads to the bucket, but I feel like I'm a part of this game. I think that they figured that out that we need to get stops. Nimhard took the challenge. We're not going to talk about it enough. We're going to talk about Tyrese Halliburton.

We're going to talk about, you know, Pascal Seacum getting out there and playing just a nice, balanced game. Yeah. But we're not going to talk about it much for, Andrew Nimhart when he went out there and disrupted SGA. He got SGA to elbow him seven seconds. And that's what you need. Elbow me.

Yeah, elbow me. Yeah, you pissed off? Good. Good. You about to check out? Maybe I'll go get a rest too. But I'll be right back as soon as you get back in the game. I feel like having that aggression toward him and making him, even if it's for one

or two plays where it's a pride, a pride drive that's not there. It's just pride. You just been bothering me the whole night and I got to get this off. Well, if he misses that, the pressure on that shot leads to a Tyrese Halliburton getting an easy lay in. You saw the one runout that he had where he finished it on the side. Yeah. Leading to those buckets that you get to see his creativity, but it lets him throw that pizzazz into it. It lets him be that player that we're waiting for him to be magic at the end.

He has to have those things throughout the game to feel that way. So I think Andrew Nimhar won't get talked about enough for it, but he, dominated this game. Six turnovers to SGA. That's a record for him in the playoffs. It's like, you don't see this out of him. Yeah. I think that he was more pressure. Five shots, but he felt for six turnovers. Without it out. Yeah. T.J. McCullough in there just making stuff happen, disrupting. Yeah, we'll talk about the bench. Okay. Before this game, you said, you, you cracked me up. You said somebody need, what did you say? You said somebody need to be disgruntled. Disruptive. Disruptive. Yeah. Disfunctional. That's what you said. You said somebody's got to be dysfunctional.

I thought that was fascinating way he put it. I want to talk about Ben Matherin. Ben Matherin had the best game of his life right here on the score. We talked about that. We talked about that. It's always one player for Indiana. I think Danny said it. There's always one guy for them that just comes along.

Danny Green, you mean, yeah. Yeah, it's just like. So their bench, just in general, they're bench. So Matherin has a game of his life. He goes nine of 12, 27 points. Is that the game of his life? Or is that just isolated because of the finals? I think he's been playing well.

That's what makes it the goal. greatest game of his life. If you do it in the finals, it makes it the best game. I'm sure he, I'm sure he had games in high school where he scored 45 points. It was against the thunder defense. I don't want to take it away from, because there's so many weapons with Indiana that it leads to him getting those extra four shots. And it's like if he got those extra four shots in any other game, it would have been the great game. So it's like I don't want to make it seem like he was in his bag, because I really feel like he's one of those guys that sooner or later, you got to make a decision. He's not on your ball club anymore.

I see what you're saying. That's what I mean. Like he's a dangerous product. When I look at him, the more and more I see him, I think today the drive that he had, he drove it and he sort of leaned into him. Yeah. And took somebody's legs away from.

They couldn't jump. But the way he stepped and did that, I was just like, wow, his knack for scoring. He's a great score. You know what I mean? He's your third leading score. It's just the knack for it is so efficient. It reminds me.

playing when I played with Jordan McCray in Cleveland. Jordan McCray, get out there. He was a third stringer, but he was a... But he'd get out there for eight minutes and have 20 points. That's right. And it's like, it's the most efficient thing ever. There's just a fewer... No one in Cleveland for chugging Jack Daniels during a Cleveland Indians World Series game in the suite.

All right, that's a callback. That's a Cleveland reference. That's an unbelievable year, by the way. He also could score. He also could score. The hell out of the ball. All right. So the Pacers bench.

Yes. Matherin, 12 shots, 27 points plus 16. Remember, it was the Thunderbench with Wiggins and Caruso that dealt that huge damage in game two. So now, they had to sit around for three days and listen to it. So Matherin has game of the playoffs for him, T.J. McConnell. Now, if I told you T.J. McConnell was three of eight shooting. He had one rebound. Two turnovers.

I would say, well, you know, whatever. Shumpie had five steals. Five assists. Five assists. He just was, and it was in timely manners. It was every time you felt like maybe they could, they got a little momentum. You know, She's feeling good. And then it was like She would throw a pass across court and they would shoot the gap every time.

It was like it just seemed like they watched a little bit more film on him. It just seemed like they knew his rhythm. They knew what he was looking for. what he was trying to get to. Shea's going to look back on this one and he's going to, you know, it'll be hard. He'll have to grit his teeth a little bit about it. But the way Indiana communicated tonight, the way they played for each other, that's what we're used to seeing.

I know it goes hand in hand with the home crowd. It's got to feel good to be in front of your fans to get that confirmation that you did your job. You went out there. You stole one on their home floor. The pressure is on them. And now you just put an enormous amount of pressure on them to come out here game four and put on the show, knowing that they can't get over the hump with you.

Yeah, right. So, like, big pressure now, unexpected pressure on O.K.C. Without a doubt, just because you've been, you're still waiting on a good game. You still don't know what a good game from them looks like. There's always somebody that's off. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. Chet, J. Dub, and Shea all scored over 20. Obviously, was an off game for Shea.

He only had 24. He had six turnovers. I thought J. Dub played J. than 1 has played pretty well in this game. Yeah, I just hated that he missed so many free throws. Well, that didn't help. That didn't help on the way back. Yeah, I think, I think his, he should never.

So obviously, their bench got totally dominated in this game. But Lou Dort hit four threes. Chet, I thought he didn't make many shots in the second half, but I thought he had an impactful game. Like, they didn't have a bad night. I knew what you're saying. They didn't play great. Yeah.

They didn't have a bad night. But you are right, sir. like they better freaking win on Friday. They go down home court advantage. That's big problems. For the first time, I'm interested in the post-game interviews. I want to see what was said.

I do because this is not a regular, it's not a regular series. It's not a regular game. Like, y'all all need this. You need it. Like, it's not a, it's got to be red alert. If I'm Jalen Williams, even down the stretch,

I'm trying to find ways that I can get back to that free throw line and, you know, make this game feel a lot different, be able to coach guys in between, but knowing that they are the better team when there's a whistle, we're playing X's and O's, OKC is the better team in that regard. But if they continue to do this thing where, you know, you miss a conversion of a breakaway,

and now they're pushing it back, and now it's a back and forth, you're playing into their hands, especially when it's deep in the game. I don't know what it is about laden the game in Indiana putting together a better end game. But their end game is unbelievable. He is Peyton Manning in the two-minute drill.

This is crazy. When they are in a close game, you just believe that they're going to get it done. You just believe they're going to get it. By the way, they have not trailed in a series yet. They've not trailed. All right, they won the first round 4-1. They won the second round 4-1.

They won last round. They were up 2-0 on the Knicks. No, they're going to have to win this 4-3. I don't see that. There's no way you're telling me. You can win a 4-3 without trailing. You can. But I just want to say also,

you're talking about Nemhard, you're talking about being unharled, Miles Turner, five blocks in this game. Yeah, we knew it was going to be a big game for him, though. You said, needed it. He didn't shoot the ball while, three of 11. But it's not even that. I think it's, it's the energy. He has a contagiousness to him. There's an integrity to the way to the way that Miles Turner plays that is a direct effect of good basketball. Like, if you're playing the right

way, that pocket pass is going to be available. If your guard is coming off hard, two dribbles off of a ball screen, that pocket pass is available for him. He could roll into the short, that short jumper at 16 to 18 feet, or he can extend it back and let a three-pointer go. But he plays an honest game. He kind of plays his rees. I wish he would roll to the basket more and get into him more back to the basket game,

but that's just me. You know what I'm saying? I think Pascal Seaccom does the same thing. Pascal played it back to the basket game tonight. I love it. They could not get into the paint. In the first two games, they could not get into the paint. Literally, they couldn't forget about scoring the ball from the paint.

They couldn't get their bodies into the paint with the ball. And so Halliburton really tried to get his feet in the paint tonight, even if he didn't always shoot in here. And Sox-Yakum came out of the gate, looking to post Shea up, looking to get that established. And he had 21 points tonight. It's got to feel like that. Every time he sees Shea, it's got to be walking down, find his chest, hit, turn, open up, and it's got to be like, throw me that ball.

worse come worse he reached for it i go two hands chase the ball and get a foul on him but he is not allowed to play behind me tonight also i'm going to say this the pacers scored 66 points in the second half of game one shot over 50 percent they scored 66 points in the second half of game two shot over 50 percent this game they score 116 their magic number is 111 they're 14 and no now in the playoffs when they get 111 or more they're o and five when they don't They shoot 51% and score 116 points. They are getting points against this defense. They're like it's, they can't assume it, but they're having success.

They're, they are touching up. They were marking up this defense more than anyone has yet this postseason. And it's now been three games where I would say they've had three and a half, very good halves of offensive basketball. I love the way they putting it together. If I'm, if I'm okay C, like, it's wild because when okayC does this, they always have that unsung hero, right? But what's wild is they, like, Neesmith didn't even start clicking. Like, it's, it's, there's always so much room for Indiana to play better that it bothers me.

I'm like, when they handle, they handle their business. And then I look at it and say, this guy didn't even really, he never really could get it going, but he still played well within the team. But it's like what happens when all of them are turned up? Like who can stop them? Like what happens when they're not playing within two, three possessions with you all the way until three minutes? Like what happens if they just start clicking and you're down 15? Like can anybody come back for 15 when they're clicking? That's what scares me about them.

I've seen OK, see when they're clicking and I can see like, all right, you can't play with them if they're on all-sellingers. You've got to take something away. That's right. You cannot play with them. I would like to see the heavyweight punch back and forth just to see what will happen if both teams are clicking. But with both of these defenses, you're just seeing them take somebody away,

take this away, take that away. And then you have a guy have to come off the bench and do his job. But for Indiana right now, they are doing the job that they need to do. Like, that is unbelievable. I didn't. And before the game, I didn't talk about him at all. I don't think any of us did. Benedict Mathrim.

Like, I apologize. I'm sorry. I didn't know. I didn't know we needed to do this before the game. I apologize. But in the post game, you're going to get your flowers, young man. Well, he was one of the top scoring six-man in the league. He's probably a starter on a lot of teams.

I'm just saying, I haven't spoke on you a lot. And I apologize. You're unfamiliar with this game. Oh, no, I'm familiar. That's the thing. It just, it's so much other, that's the thing that scares me about this team. Like, it's, Obey had a great game. It wasn't that I didn't, I don't like Mathur and I love him.

I love how you playing. Young guy come out here playing one of the only Canadians do. I get it. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Listen, man, there's this Canadian thing going on here. It's a thing. So Nemhart and Shea have known each other their whole lives. since they were kids because they're both from Ontario.

So this has been a thing. Well, I didn't understand that they had a little, like, you know, they were on the Canadian national team together. They played together in Ontario growing up. There's definitely an edge here. Like, you know, like, I assume you, there were guys you grew up from Chicago. Oh, yeah, for sure. Who maybe you were friendly with, but you had a fan with.

But you just know their game. Like you've had to see them before. The same thing with Lou Dort and Ben Matherin. They're both from Montreal. Montreal and Ontario, literally totally different places. Wow. You know, they speak French in Montreal. It's like almost like a different country. So the fact, it's one thing to be Canadian, like, you know,

Kelly Olenek is from Cam Loops, British Columbia. Both guys are from opposite teams and in the same sound. But they're both from the same area. Again, it'd be one thing of one guy was from Montreal, one guys from Ontario, but they're both in the same area. And Mather and Dort, like they're talking, they might be talking trash in Creole. They speak Creole. Yeah, they speak French, you speak English, but they speak Haitian Creole.

Hey, mic them up. Can you imagine like what's like? Mic them up. They would speak in, I mean, so I'm saying like it's a weird little thing that's going on. That's the NBA done that? Have we released footage in another language yet? Have we done that yet? I don't know, but you know what?

Tyrese has worn the mic three games in a row. Normally the star player, you got to wear the mic at least once. Like LeBron would always wear the mic in the first game and that's it. He doesn't want to be miced up. Halliburton wants the mic. He wants to have. He, you know, he's very aware. He wants that moment.

He's got the Netflix cameras around him right now. He's, you know, who knows what his fashion is, what he's got saved for game four or five, six. You know what's wild, though? And I'll tell you all this about being miced up. You're not going to remember you're mic'd up once the warm-ups is done. I think he knows. Maybe you wouldn't remember because you were. He wouldn't know.

He wouldn't know. There's too much to think about. It's too much. It's so much to think about in a game. maybe you'll probably have one or two three times you'll be conscious of it if you fall down and hit your back on the little battery pack or whatever from the mic is there a battery pack like on your waist yeah you got to wear it on the compression well i don't know they got all this new technology y'all probably got a little baby tack you can put on the ear or something by now yeah i don't

know what gidditches and gadgets y'all got but we had the little battery pack soft pack that you used to have but if you got knocked down onto the cameras like Yeah, you're going to fill it. But yeah, I don't think that you could be conscious of it right now. I think he is playing so free. I was happy that they were able to get stops, that he was able to get rebounds. What do you have, eight defensive rebounds? I know it, like the back of my hand.

He is one of those guys that in a game that we played them, that would be my main thing. Every defensive rebound he gets, he's going to have to see my face. You're not allowed to take that rebound and just. turn it into momentum. You're going to take that and you're going to check around to make sure I'm not there. But I'm not even going to the board. I'm attached to you. You know what I mean? Because I see that it's a direct correlation between him getting a rebound and pushing the ball. Like him pushing that tempo is scary to me. We talk about things that scare me. That scares me. I wouldn't like that.

And things that scare me, I'm not willing to go do it. I don't get scared of the roller coaster and then be the first one on the roller coaster. No, I'm not going to the, we might not go to the amusement part. But Tyrese Halliburton getting a rebound and turning it into a runout, no, thank you. I've seen it, it's good. It's a great movie.

You're not watching it no more. Yeah. You're not watching it. I'm breaking the DVD player. It's over. So also, I thought the Pacers worked their backside off to apply full core pressure. They just, they came up, they like,

they worked so hard. Again, Andrew Nemerner. They're not even allowing a free inbound after a made basket. You want to know what else is the director's old of that? Nimhart, five fouls. Yeah. You can't take them all. Nees Smith had six.

Can't take them home. Use them all. Use them all. Because if you can get SGA like that, and I don't mean they did something where it's like you shut him down. No, you didn't shut him down. You pissed him off. There is no shutting down SGA.

That's right. There is no shutting. Don't do, don't go into the game. I'm not trying to shut him down. You're so good. Let's clap it up for you. I'm going to disrupt you. I'm going to piss you off.

I want you to push me off. Any extra little thing I can get you to do, let's do it. But you're going to win a different way. It's not going to be cool, calm, collected. I want your face to change. His facial expression never changes. That's right. He prides himself on that.

I want to see his angry eyes. It's happened a few times with them. Yeah. I want him. I want him. I don't ever see him a judge. his headband. You watch Caruso adjust his headband all game. SGA never see his headband always calm. It must be a hell of a headband because not a beat of sweat gets down on that face.

It must be the greatest headband ever designed. I think that's an oath to, I was talking to Coach Cal, that's an old to his conditioning. They say that he's in unbelievable shape and he prides himself on it, which is why. Cal had him in Kentucky. Without a doubt, which is why he's, you know, one of those guys that looks for the end of the game to do some of his best work. But knowing that... Having said that, I thought the Thunder got a little tired at the end of this game. Yeah. Well, we're late.

We are late in the season. We are late. It is late at night. The games is later. The TV timeouts is longer. People don't realize that. Just for y'all can be entertained at home. I know.

It's a great special on the finals. All of it is cute. Now you're sitting on the bench for way longer. Like that sweat that was going that used to go in game two, that sweat be gone. Like you could get cold waiting on the time out. But it's just a different thing. The pressure's different.

The presentation's different. The crowd is different. The crowd not going to get tired. Your body's going to know it's tired. You're going to say, man, it's getting late. The crowd is not tired. They drunk. It's time.

They want to play. They want a war. They want to see you win. I love the energy tonight. I told you, I've been in the, this field house. You played dozens of five years. Oh man. But it's

I don't know. I've always appreciated gyms where the fans hate you. Like we are allowed to hate each other for 48 minutes. Let's get it on. Because they love you when you come back. You know, seeing me in the suit, I promise I haven't gotten thrown nobody through they drink at me nothing. And this

is one of the most vicious crowds I've ever dealt with. But they respectful, love basketball and they are eating this up. right now because this is unbelievable to watch. Friday's going to be something. Oh, man. Be there, be square.

Get your popcorn ready. Friday is going to be something. The thunder are going to be tested like none of these guys have been tested before. I will say this. They were down 2-1 to Denver. They faced the game seven against Denver. They haven't done in the finals before, but they were heavy favorites and they're going to listen for the next two days to hear about how they're in trouble.

So we'll see how they come back on Friday. I would love to see the even kill. Because if they win on Friday, they got home court back. Three games series, they got home court. It's not so bad. But this felt like 2-2 to me all along. I felt this to be 2-2. I don't know where I'll feel about on Friday,

but this felt like 2-2 to me when we came here. That's what it might be. You know what's while? I think that if the Thunder witness is going to be a 3-1 situation, even to win it, I think it's a 3-1 situation. They really look like they need to figure it out. before they. I sort of feel like this is one of those situations where the winner of game four wins

the series. Instead of this? Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I know. But I feel like, look, Indiana hadn't lost two games in a row in three months.

Granted, the Thunder are like that too, though. The Thunder are 17 and two off losses this year. They don't lose two in a row either. They've only lost two in a row twice. That's what I'm saying. This is not a. So you feel like it's just going to be. gonna play tennis for a little bit.

I just think whoever wins game four, I feel I'm not ready to declare that, but I feel like whoever wins game four is gonna be a chance. What's your adjustment for OKC that makes them realize they can get over this home? I don't know if there's an adjustment because they pretty much play the same way all the time, but their bench is,

the bench war is big. The bench war is big. Their bench got crushed in this. Yeah, they got cooked. Caruso is minus 15. They got cooked. And that's irregular. Yeah, that jumps out.

I didn't even look at that. That's crazy. Caruso got, you know, and it wasn't just about him. No, but it's like, it's one of those things that if a guy like that can have a minus 15, it's just tough to win tonight. Clearly. Because he's a guy that plays good with principal. He doesn't take away from anybody.

Everything he does is trying to be positive and an add-on to the team. It's nothing that you got to draw up and force. You know what I mean? So seeing an indication of a guy. guy like that having minus 15, you don't like to see it. Case in Wallace being a minus 10 is a direct indication of whatever the starter's doing. So it doesn't bother you as much. Well, Shump, I really enjoy listening to hear you talk about these games.

Man, I... You're emotionally invested. And you know what? I try not to be. I try not to be, but especially when it seems like guys are like right there. they're like right there. It's like I just look at it from a perspective of if I was against them, how would we game plan for them?

I'm usually the guy that has to guard the best player. So it's like if I could think of how we would come at it, it's like that's usually just the adjustment they need to make. If they can make sure nobody takes that from them, that's usually their best attribute. Like if I'm looking at it, Andrew Nimhard, you have to play like that. Like this is, that's textbook for taking, that's called taking.

the head out the snake. Yeah, you just not going to play tonight. I'm sorry. I'm about to pass to you. It's not fair. I am fouling you sometimes. Don't care. I'm not going to flop with you. If you're going to sell it, go ahead. The Thunder play very, very physical and they bang everybody. So when Shea gets banged around, they have to accept that that's the way it's going to be. Without a doubt. And I like the way Shea played because he didn't go start flopping and begging for foul. Actually, it was a well-officiated game. He sold probably two calls. It happens. Yeah. But It's not as bad as I've seen. Oh, I love that nobody's talking about that no more

because that was going to piss me off before the series. He only had six free throws. He has not shot a lot of free throws this whole series. He had 12 in game two, but tonight it was, tonight below his average. I'm saying having 12 free throws for the MVP one game. He led the league this year, yeah. All right, we got to go.

Thank you, Shump. Thank you to Ralph and Jackson, our producers. Thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective. Keep the cameras rolling. We'll be back on Friday.