Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - NBA Finals Set With Historic Win By Pacers + Huge Offseason Coming For Knicks

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the Pacers punching a ticket to the NBA Finals after eliminating the Knicks in Game 6 including how Indiana exploited some of the Knicks’ weaknesses and Indiana’s chances in the Finals. Then, the guys talk how the Knicks can get over the hump to get to the Finals and how heavy a favorite OKC should be. Plus, a lesson in travel packing and a tradition. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hooke collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Saturday evening. Is it Sunday morning?

Yes, it's Sunday morning. Joining us from Gaines Bridge Fieldhouse. God, it's like an old man when I keep making the series. You better get it right, buddy. You're going to be here. I know. It's embarrassing. Gainbridge Fieldhouse in Indianapolis site of games three and four of the NBA

finals, home of the Eastern Conference Champions for the first. first time in 25 years after the Indiana Pacers beat the New York Knicks in game six is Tim. Hello, everybody. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where he's making plans to go to Indianapolis in about 10 days, is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners, I've had my hotel reservations in Indie for at least a couple weeks now, two, three weeks. You know, 49 states, it's just basketball, but we're going to Indiana.

By the way, I know that Josh Hart announced after the game that he dislocated his finger. He's not the only guy who dislocated his finger today. True. It's true. It's true. True story. A fring finger there. Oh, my God.

That ring is not coming off anytime. No, I can get it off. But the thing bad it was, we were on the losing side. Me, my boys, a couple other kids. Josh Hart. Against the bun. Well, Josh Hart. No, I won the last one.

We were on the losing side of the game before. and I had to kind of dominate the glass against all these middle school. Against 12-year-olds. My matchup. My matchup was a high school. But, yeah, I thought I jammed it and looked down. My finger was pulling like a Sean Marion or Lionel Hollins, kind of going the wrong direction, just gave it a little yank and boom, it's right back in place.

We did win the last game, though. That's a Texan right there, Bontemps. Pops his finger. All I'll say is, I've covered Lionel Hollins. seen his fingers and I really hope it didn't look like that. And Perk, Perk has a sideways. Yeah, it happens. This one was temporary, just a few seconds.

All right, well, hopefully you'll be in good condition with your tier, for your typing, which you're going to be needed for the lead up to game one, which is coming up on Thursday night. I thought they were sending Bon Temps for me to dictate to, so he could, he could actually Oh, that's his job. Bond Temps is going to have slow on. that's absolutely not going to be my job absolutely not

all right well let's get to business here the Pacers played a very Pacers-esque game in game six they win by 17 and their speed their speed game was back their turnover game was back their score off turnovers

and score after made baskets was back how many times Bon Tems did they get a leak out after an inbound it might have been four or five I mean, look, all you got to say is fast break points 25 to 10. Points off turnover is 34.13. Yeah, I mean. 34, I'd say, let's keep it on that points off turnover.

That's going to be a pretty big key come finals. But dude, if four and you're playing the Pacers, you might want to find Pascal Seaccombe. He's that really fast guy who's sprinting down toward the other end. And if you don't sprint with him, he's going to get the ball. And he's either going to dunk it or lay it up like he kept doing. over and over again against the sloppy Cancun-bound New York Knicks. Yeah, I mean, if you're the Knicks, I mean, look, we're going to talk plenty about the Pacers. This was just a giant, in my opinion, missed opportunity for the Knicks.

I know the stat line at the end looks good for the Pacers. Obviously, it was a comfortable win in the end. This was not a comfortable win for much of the game. The Pacers did not play very well, despite hitting a bunch of threes in the first half. And the Knicks just kicked this game away. They could not handle the ball. Like you said, McMahon, there were just constant breakouts off made baskets and off missed layups. It turned into layups at the other end for Indiana.

Just a ton of sloppy miscues, both on defense and with the ball. I mean, 18 points, 18 turnovers for 34 pacer points, almost two points per turnover. I mean, the Knicks were very disappointed after the game, and it's understandable why, because they had an opportunity to extend this series, and they did not come close to take an advantage of it. I'm not going to agree with you to say they gave it away, but the Pacers took it, but they certainly didn't play a game that was suitable for what was needed here. My point is they had opportunities in the first half to take control of the game and really put the Paces on the back foot. And they kept handing the game to the Pacers over and over and over again. And even in the second half, the Paces kept trying to let the Knicks back in the game. And then they would just make two or three mistakes in a row and it would go from nine or ten to 18 again.

The Pacers won the game to be clear. They deserve to win. Yeah, the Pacers pounced on every Knicks' mistakes. mistake in the second half. Every next mistake, a few seconds later, there's a wide open corner three or a Seacum dunker layup. And then in the fourth quarter, like, okay, do you just want to, you want to play deep drop on Tyreys Halliburton? Here's a floater for you. Here's a floater for you. The fourth quarter defense, especially Carl Anthony Towns, was not. Yeah, I mean, at that point, the game was over. I mean, the game was over in the third quarter.

That's true. They started the second half. It was a 90, 9-0 run, 10, to start the half. Yeah, that's pretty much worth it. Because the half, it was four points. It was a four-point game, and you looked at it, and the Pacers had hit more than 50% of their threes, and the Knicks had done basically everything awfully, and we're down four. And it was like, hey, if the Knicks actually play well in the third quarter, they got a chance here. And then immediately, they come out, they get.

give up a three. Carl Towns misses two free throws. They give up a three. Carl tries to drive into three guys and no hope turnover. And then Seacum flies down and gets an and one. Like, you know, like that just summed up the way the game went. Yeah, Kat had a really crappy end to a great season. I mean, he ended up, his numbers look fine, 22 and 14. He did not play well in this game. Well, so did Jalen Brunson. I mean, Jalen Brunson. I mean, Jalen Brunson had a phenomenal season and he had a dreadful game too. I mean, just. Five turnovers. It's very sloppy with the ball, uncharacteristically so. I mean, OJNobie was great.

And look, if you want to get down to it, I mean, the difference in the series in a lot of ways is the Knicks traded a lot of picks for Mikhail Bridges. And the Pacer's traded a lot of picks for Pascal Seaccombe. And Pascal Seacom played like a guy you trade a lot of picks for, then Mikhail Bridges didn't. Well, Seaccombe looks like a – you say a lot of picks. So that comes like a discount compared to what they gave from I understand that But my point is both teams

Push their chips in to make a trade For a guy they thought was going to push them ahead And Pascal Seaccom Played like it in this series And it's a huge part of why the Pacers were in the finest Yeah, I mean We'll talk about Seaccom in a minute Bridges had five turnovers as well

The Pacers, especially Andrew Nemhart Aaron Neesmith, regardless of where his ankle was I don't know how much it was affecting him the last couple of games but he got in a foul trouble early on. And so, Andrew... He was just bad early on. I mean, he got blown by by Jalen Brunson in the first two possessions of the game.

They just took him right off of them. Put Nemhart right on him then. Yeah, I'm not sure if his ankle is affecting him or not. I don't know. I saw him. He said after the game, that he definitely needs this little break between a series. He banged his knee in the second half as well.

But the point is, Andrew Nemhart was a primary defender on Jalen Brunson for most of this game. And Nemhard was... was spectacular in all facets of this game. And he had six steals, which he probably affected another six possessions that either resulted in the turnover elsewhere or disrupted the Knicks. And what I think is the defining moment in the game,

he, I don't know who he actually technically picked his pocket. I don't know who got credit for the turnover, probably Brunson, because it was the off-screen. But he picked Brunson's pocket and got a breakout layup in the third quarter. And Brunson, and then he was, you know, even though Brunson didn't have the ball, he was, you know, face guarding him from 90 feet up the court. And Brunson got so frustrated that he had butted him.

Yeah. And Brunson is typically a pretty unflappable dude. Right. Himhard absolutely got under his skin tonight. Without question. And affected his game. And, you know, was a big part of the Pacers closing this series out. You know, also had eight assists, by the way.

14 points, 8 assists, 6 steals, you know, for a guy you can consider, I don't know, fourth starter, maybe even fifth starter, heck more performance. To just put a bow on the Knicks. Honestly, you know, I'm seeing a lot of criticism of them, and this was a series that was close. These teams were pretty comparable. There are, is, are, were, whatever scenarios in which the

Knicks could have won this series, specifically had they not let game one go through their fingers. Yeah. But I will just say, I don't think it's fair to discount how well the Pacers played in the series at large, writ large, I should say. And I also- Well, the Pacers controlled the run of play in five of the six games. Like they dictated the way the game was, I should say four of the six games, because most of the game won, they didn't.

The Pacers, by and large, dictated how the series are going to be played. That's why they won the series. They were the better team. Yeah. Game one, I don't know if I would say. The two games, they, once game they scored 100, one game they scored 94, the Knicks controlled the pace of play, and game one could have gone the Knicks. I know this.

Pacers had a chance to close out tonight, came in wearing all black, coaching staff were all black. Reggie Miller. Unbiased Reggie Miller on the T&T broadcast. Well, look, what do you want to say? I did not think he was biased on the broadcast and he played there for 18 years. What do you want?

But anyway, I was saying is, you know, the proper team won, the team that performed better won. The Knicks could have won this series. They needed to play better. They didn't. However, they had an excellent playoffs and they had a strong season. They had issues in the regular season against the top teams,

but they had a strong playoffs. And I'm seeing a lot of anti-Tib stuff out there. And yeah, you can present a case that he didn't touch all the right buttons here, but he also made a lot of changes during the course of this series to try to figure out the Pacers. He changed the starting lineup. He expanded his rotation. He made over the game plans. You know, Tibbs did some coaching in this series.

And it wasn't perfect. I agree. And, you know, I'm not, I'm just saying, like, you know, I'm seeing this. what I think is an unfounded swell against him and an unfounded swell against the Knicks. They have a challenge on their team, which is that they have a couple of weaker defensive players that in a playoff setting can be picked on. And it sets the standard for their offensive play to be very, very high at the highest level against the best teams, not necessarily against every team, but against the best teams, the standard that they have to hit offensively to make up for their defensive issues is very high. high. And that is one of the big challenges with this team. But despite that, I think that they

achieved extraordinarily well throughout the course of this season and this playoffs. And again, it's revisionist history to say that they won the Celtic series because of injuries. They were going to be up 3-1 when Jason Tatum was unfortunately injured. Jalen Brown, I see people saying that Jalen Brown had a bad knee. Jalen Brown was awesome in game five. He, his knee may have been affecting him a little bit. He was, he was excellent. Porzingis was off, but I mean. This is kind of a weird jag.

I mean, the Knicks had a weird season, right? They had a, they had a good season, but they had a weird season. They couldn't beat any good teams in the regular season. They then had a up and down first round series against the Pistons where they, you know, they got through it, but it wasn't easy. They won. They did. I'm just saying it was a hard-fought six-game series.

Yeah. Then they had an extraordinarily strange series against. the Celtics, where they got outplayed for the vast majority of the first five games, and then won the last game. You say strange. I say winning. Yes, they won. You got to play those conference finals.

Yes, they won the games, and then they blew them out in game six, and then they got handled pretty consistently throughout the conference finals. I don't know. No, I don't agree. They were the better teams clearly in two of the games, and they botched one. They got breaks and created their own breaks. to get home court advantage in the conference finals, and they went home in six games.

So all in all, good season, but you can have a good season that's also disappointed because they had a golden opportunity in front of them. They couldn't take advantage of it. And season on the line of night, they got their butts kicked pretty soundly by the Pacers, especially, I mean, the second half, they just got absolutely dominated.

And it was dominated by, like, they were sloppy. they were sloppy defensively. They were sloppy with the ball. Yeah, they did not put their best foot forward to my. This was their worst game of the series. They didn't want to see the Oklahoma City Thunder with that transition defense. Yeah, I mean, look, they, I mean, they were pretty soundly beaten in the series.

I mean, they just were. So I think they could have won the series. I am sorry, I disagree. They were beaten, yes. But they were, they were demonstratibly better in two of the six games, and the one game they had a historic blow. I mean, they were demonstrably better in game one and blew the game. They were demonstrably better in game five.

They got beat pretty soundly on their home court in game two. I mean, they definitely got beat. In game three, they were bad for three quarters, and then Carl Towns had 20 points in the fourth quarter, and they won. All right. This will make Nick's fans feel better. If not for that historic choke job in game one, where Tyreys Halliburton rubbed it in your faces in the,

In the Aaron Niece Smith, that's something to say that. The arena, you know, the whole crowd's faces with the choke thing. It's not that epic choke job.

This would be going back to Madison Square Garden. I'll make those trash tossers feel better. Look, the thing is, like, again, the Knicks had a good season. It was,

I think, a hard season to read on what their actual level is. The fact that the Celtics are probably not going to be in the mix next year. I think, as of right now, If you look at the east, the Pacers to me are the clear team to look at as the favorites going into next season, understandably so.

And then you've got the Cavs and the Knicks, the two teams that lost to them that in a lot of ways had the same problem, which was an inability to guard at the highest level when it mattered. And this summer, the Knicks have their top seven guys. They're very good. The McHale Bridges trade was not a good trade. but at this point it is what it is. And they have the ability to go out and add depth to the roster. And like, look, for example, Al Horford is a free agent.

I don't think at this point it makes a lot of sense for Al Horford be back in Boston. Maybe he will be. But given where things are with the Celtics, I think he's now much more in play than he might have been a month ago. Al Horford is a longtime friend of Carl Towns, has played with him with the Dominican national team for a long time. If they go get Al Horford this summer, who I think would be an unbelievable fit on this next roster,

and they go get another perimeter player to deepen their rotation, and they have a bench of Al Horford, another ball handler, Deuce McBride, and Mitchell Robinson, to go with their starting five. That's a much better team. That's a team that could beat the Pacers next year. That's a team that'll be in the mix, in the east. So what if they go much bigger than that?

And they shake up this core and they go get somebody else who the Pacers eliminated. I just don't. I mean, look, I'm not going to rule anything out. But I think the Knicks, the McHale Bridges trade really put the Knicks in a bind because they put all their chips on the table to get McHale Bridges. They don't really have the draft capital necessary to make that kind of swing. So sure, I'm not ruling anything out. We saw Luca get traded. Anything is possible. But I think it's more likely. if you look at this Knicks team, they have the tax mid-level exception they can use. They have playing time available. They're in New York City.

Like, they should be able to get depth on the roster after their top seven guys. And if they add some depth to the roster beyond their top seven, so they're not having DeLan Wright taking open threes in the second half of the game that ended their season, look, Delan Wright and Landry Shamit played well for them and changed a lot of these games. but if those spots in the rotation are significantly upgraded, this Knicks team looks a lot different, and perhaps this series looks a lot different. But they have,

they and the Cavs go into next season, looking up at Indiana with the same question, can we guard them well enough to beat them four out of seven? And as of right now, the answer for both those teams is a pretty resounding no. Well, we also have to see the Knicks, as you said, are going to have their top seven. and if they choose to, we'll be able to bring them back

and add to it. The Celtics, I don't know if I can say that. I would say, probably... I mean, they're just, they're not. We're not counting this. The Celtics are set aside. The Cavs, the other team may mention. Yeah, I said the Cavs, I know, I know.

Well, the Celtics are going to have to take some pieces off. We know Tatum will be out for a long time, and they may have to lose a piece or two. The calves may have to lose a piece or two. I'm not sure. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'm not 100% sure that the Pacers will come back. Now, I think that they will go into the tax. I did a story last

week that, um, where it, it, the Pacers are expecting to have ownership approval to go into the tax for the first time in 20 years. They were last in the tax in the 20, in the 2004-5 season, which was the malice in the palace year, where they had lost in the conference finals the year before. They went to the tax that year. Um, I wrote about, um, I wrote about, um, the, the malice in the palace. But they were largely in the tax because of the contract that they gave Austin Crozier. After the last, he had like a brilliant, they lost the 2000 finals to the Lakers, but Crozier had a brilliant finals. And then they gave them a huge contract. And that was sort of near the end of it.

And anyway, they haven't been in the tax since. And they've paid less than $10 million in the tax in the history of the franchise. Well, the finals run justifies those kind of things. I agree. And so Miles Turner is a free. And as long as Miles Turner is back, they also could make a move to get out of the tax and not really mess up their team. Right. But I would just say that from what I am told, the hope and belief and whatever is that ownership will greenlight them going a little bit into the tax for a little while.

And that's good. Ownership also greenlighted a trade for Pascal Seaccom, knowing there was going to be a max contract essentially as part of that deal. And that is a move. Let's talk about that. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Let's switch over to the Pacers real quick. A year ago, the reason that the, it was more than a year now, but the trade deadline 24, the reason that they did that the Raptors traded for him was it because they didn't want to pay him the max.

Right. And Siakum was, he wanted the max. It was, you know, not a secret. And so I would also just, just to pause real quick. Yeah. But the Raptors traded away O'Janent and O'Brien, Pascal Seaccom, and Fred Van Ville. Right? They didn't trade away from.

He walked. Well, and he walked. And all three of those guys were on 51 teams this year. I know. Like, I don't know. Like, why did it have been a good idea for the Raptors to pay those guys and how them stay on the team? So I'm going to tell you, I don't want to get too far. They basically turned, I'm just saying, they basically turned Pascal Seaccom into Brandon Ingram.

and Pascal's the Yacchens is a lot better than Brandon Ingram. Hold on. I don't want to get too far afield from this, but since this has come up, the Raptors are a team that is starting to make noise within the league about looking for a big fish. And, you know, and I think because, and I don't want to get away from this, but I've started it myself. If you're an Eastern Conference team that's in the middle of the pack, you're looking at the teams in front. front of you going some of them may not be able to come together, may be able to stay together. Boston is hurt. And so there are some teams that sniff the ability to make a move.

And I think Toronto is one of those teams. And so naturally, any team that wants to make a move this summer, especially a team in the Eastern Conference, you're going to have Janus on the board. But Toronto, I think, is going to try from their initial conversations. Teams in the league are getting the impression that Toronto is going to try to do. something. I had an executive tell me yesterday that he thinks this could be, could be, could be an explosive summer. You know, this is what Shams said the other day. But like this, you know, this is the whole league. People are saying that there's, this is, the amount of activity and

calls happening in the league right now is a much higher volume than has been in years past. That's what we've been saying for six months. I know. Does not mean it's going to happen. but Toronto is one of those teams that is sitting there on the balls of its feet, which is interesting because it's kind of like hearing Sacramento, because Sacramento is one of them too. I don't think that's breaking news. And the funny thing, of course, is that Sacramento wants a point guard. Oh, hey. So here's Toronto looking for a big fish when they've got a big fish in the finals who won Eastern Conference Finals MVP. By the way, the one guy we didn't talk about who was absolutely awesome today,

was O'GN and Obie, who was awesome for the Knicks and had a great season. And, you know, again, like, you have those three guys in Scotty Barnes, it would have look pretty good. Well, who would you rather have for the next three years, Pascal Seaccom or Brandon Ingram? Pascal Seacombe by a mile. You mean the guy who's like impacted playoff winning? The guy who went to 26 and 10 in the finals, the guy who had 26 and 10 in game six of the NBA finals and they had three 30 point games in this series.

Yeah. I'll take that guy. And look. Please. Like, you know, the Eastern Conference MVP finals vote was five to four Seaccom over Halliburton. If it had gone the other way, fine. Halliburton definitely took a step forward.

And they said, Eastern Conference Finals, MVP, and then took a step back with Pascal Seacom. But, dude, Seacom was awesome in every win they had in this series. And he's a guy who you don't have to like, tailor everything to him. You don't have to like run everything any really hardly any plays for him. He's just outrunning everybody, scoring in transition, picking stuff up in garbage, and then, you know, taking advantage of some opportunities in the half court, but he's a huge matchup problem, a good defense player. No. I mean. Well, Brandon Ingram, the next three years will make

40 million on average. And you have to get you have to, you have to, Ingraham has to have the ball. Ackham can impact games with that. And he doesn't shoot threes, and he's not a great defender. Like, Pascal's just a clearly better player. And to get into what you said, McMahon, to shift back to the Pacers, like, the thing about the Pacers is, like, they are this symbiotic unit where everybody sort of flows into everybody else as the game is going on. And they have Halliburton, obviously, at the controls.

And then they've got four guys around them who can shoot and guard. And run. And run. So he's very willing to kick it up to Andrew Demhard or to kick it up to Seacum. I mean, especially with Seacom going up against Carl Towns, there's three or four possessions a game where Pascal's catching it essentially in a one-on-one situation against either Carl Towns or Jalen Brunson or McHale Bridges. And he can just go by them to the rim.

And it's an easy eight points. And that's just because of the way that the Pacers play. And it's because of his ability to go court and do that. His point guard, his point guard in Toronto, they let go. So look, Ingram's making $40 million over the next three. Siakum's making $48. So it's more money. But, you know.

Again, it's not even conversation. We haven't seen Ingram play since I don't, oh, actually, I do remember when early December I was there. And we just watched Seacom go for 31 in a conference finals clincher tonight. And just where the Knicks asked. out with his relentless energy throughout a six-game series. The staff from the Jackson put in the Chad kind of sums up a series. Pacers outscore the next by 74 points in transition in a six-game series, including 31

tonight. 31 points advantage in transition. And it felt like 31 points tonight. Yeah, now. It felt like it. I'll be. Stan Van Gundy was losing his mind every time. the Pacer's got an outlet leak.

Dude, it's off-made baskets. He's just running go-routes. And if you don't run with them, they'll kick it up to him. So, Don't get it. So, Bon, Temps, the vote tonight for conference finals MVP was, and there was nine voters. This stupid award every year. Oh, stop crying. I'm not crying.

It just becomes a controversy every year. Who's a name? We're going to talk about it. I don't think it's a controversy. mercy that much. So the vote was five to four. Halliburton got four votes. Siakum got five. You had a vote. You voted for Seacom. You and the other four voters who voted for Seaccom each cast a deciding vote. Not one person did. Yes. And I will just say, I don't, I don't, I thought, you know, if Jackson could edit this out, but you asked McMahon and I for our opinion, and McMahon and I both said we would vote for Seacom.

So I'll tie myself to this. I asked, I asked several people and they all said Seacom. So Yacom was unanimous in the group chat for sure. Yeah. And by the way, a vote for Tyrese Halliburton isn't a bad vote. No, it's fine. I mean, like, if it was five, four. Yeah. Sure.

So, but why don't you use this forum to discuss your reasons for going with Seyakum? Just deal with that. I certainly think you could vote for Halliburton. He obviously had one of the greatest games you'll see offensive like we talked about in game four. I just thought Siakum was the most consistent player on the team throughout the series. He had 30 points at three different games. He won them game two. His 39 points in game two.

Like you talk about game one. Yes, the Pacer is blue game one. The rest of the Pacers were not very good in game two. I'm sorry that the Knicks blue game one, the Pacer stole it. The rest of the paces were not very good in game two. Pascal Seacom stole game two. And that wound up. I mean, he was a monster in that game.

And then, you know, had enough. the 30 in game four alongside Halliburton. And then tonight, the game was over after three quarters because Pascal Seacca had 26 and was awesome in the game again. And his ability to break down Carl Towns in the half court and to get out and score buckets was a big deciding factor in the series. And again, you want to say Hal Burton's at the controls, he should get it totally fine. You know, he's awesome. Would have been totally fine. But that was why I voted for Seyaka.

Sounds good to me. Congrats to both of them. Congrats to the Pacers for winning. And the fact that those two guys were tied at the hip like that, I mean, full credit to the Pacers front office. Like when they got him, ever since they got Tyrese Halliburton in here,

they have done a tremendous job of putting a team around him where all these pieces fit. And Miles Turner talked about it after the game, said he believes Pacers are a team that the modern game is sort of modeled toward. and with the new realities with the CBA, not having a quote unquote super team and having a younger team with a bunch of guys that fit

and get along and play well together is a model to look at going forward. I think there's a lot of truth in that. I think like we've talked a lot, there's a lot of similarities between the two teams that are going to play in the finals and the way they're built and the way they play. And, you know, I think one of them is demonstrably better

than the other one. And I don't think the finals is going to be particularly long. But that doesn't change the fact that, like I said earlier, you look at this Pacers team. Like as of today, yes, there's a million things that still have to happen between now and this time next year. But the Pacers, as of now, to me, are the clear team to look at going to the next season to be back in this position again. And that's a credit to the job Rick Carlisle's done, the job the front office is done. And obviously this group led by Talbert and Seaccom and the way. way they play and how much of a hard time they've given all these teams the last couple years in the

playoffs. They changed their franchise when they made the trade for Halliburton and then they built a roster around him that maximizes his skill set and is a great fit in the modern day NBA where it is about pace and space and depth. And they've got all three of those things. You know, and Halliburton is the, you know, he's the engine of the whole thing. But Siakum is the guy who, you know, that trade vaulted them into a, hey, that's a cute little playoff team to, okay, that's a team that can do some damage. So, by the way, the Seacom trade, they gave what they ended up in the summer of 23, they had $20 million in cap space that nobody really wanted.

And so they gave it all to Bruce Brown. And basically, maybe Bruce Brown would have worked out as a total. $20 million player. As it turned out, they basically bought someone to trade with that money. They signed a human trade exception. Right.

And Bruce, who had not made a ton of money, was happy to take the money. Yeah. And remember the Nuggets, I forgot the exact number, but it was a fraction of, the Nuggets could only offer a fraction of that.

Right, right. It wasn't, they didn't, you know, they had to, everybody had to do what they did there. So there were, there were three first round

picks in that deal that they also sent. Two of them were from last year. And I know that the pick that the actual Indiana pick, they took. Isaiah Collier, one was moved to Jacoby, Jacobi Walter. Jacoby Walter, who. And then Isaiah Collier, which that was, I forgot whose pick it was. Obviously, it was a late first round pick. I think that it's an OKC pick. I believe actually. That's right. We'll wind up with Utah. Okay.

So, and they've got a pick next year that's, I think, protected. That's one thing about the McHale Bridges trade. We have no idea what the unprotected picks that the Knicks gave for that deal, what they will turn into down the line. But the Knicks gave two picks in the 2025 draft. Those were the first two assets that they gave in that. and the picks are right now the 19th and 26th picks they also gave Bogdan Bogdan I'm sorry Boyan Bogdanovich

who the Nets paid $20 million this year and he never played a second and they couldn't trade him because he got re-injured and had to have a second surgery right so I will just say for all I know those Knicks picks will be lottery picks and the Nets will be laughing all the way of the bank. I'm just saying that the price paid for Siacom, I had to look up who it was. It wasn't that hungry. It was a human trade exception.

Right. I know. I'm just saying, you know, two later first round picks, one very late, one fairly late, in a draft considered week, and then a 2026 pick. Yeah.

For a guy who pushed. And again, for all I know, with the 19th pick in this draft, the Nets will take a player who ends up being a nine-time I'm All-Star. It's just another reminder that if you make a trade like that, whether it's three picks, five, picks, seven picks, whatever, you've got a hit on it because you only have really,

probably one chance to really push in two or three or more picks to go get a difference-making player. But when you get a guy that's just okay, it's going to end up not look, whatever the value of the picks, it's not about that. It's about what is the return on the player you get? And in this case, the Pacers got a guy in Pascal Seaccom who, as you said, Big Van, they leveled up when they got Seacom. Now they're a team that's been in the conference finals last year and in the NBA finals now for the first time in a quarter century.

And when the Pacers made that trade, they knew roughly the value of the two picks that were giving up a year's draft. The risk there wasn't, oh my gosh, they're giving up three first round picks. The risk was, okay, the Raptors don't want to max this guy. do you really think Pascal Seaccom is a max player? And as he was holding that Eastern Conference finals, it would be a P trophy tonight. I damn sure felt like he was a max player. Well, and it's a reminder of, too, again,

like I think Carlisle made a joke about it today that it took him a couple weeks to get used to playing with the Pacers because they were playing so much faster than Toronto was with them, right? And I think that's where the Pacers, I think, deserve credit, because they've looked at Seacum in his skill set and said, If we plug him in with a space big and Miles Turner and with Nemhart and these guys who move the ball up the court like this, this is going to be a perfect fit in the way we want to play. And it's made Pascal an even better player than he was in Toronto.

He was already a great player there. It's just a hand-in-glove fit. And it really speaks to them understanding what they needed on the roster and going out and getting it. So from the Raptors' perspective, since we've been a little hard on them, I will say that they used next year's draft pick, which is top four protected. and Bruce Brown to get Brandon Ingram. So you could argue that they basically traded Seaccombe essentially.

That's what I said a half an hour ago. That's literally what I said. Okay. That was what started the whole discussion. And, okay. Yeah, but I didn't understand. And we'll see what Ingram does in Toronto. But again, that gets back to.

Yes. Would you rather have? And I don't think that's really. That's not a debate right now for sure. And look, like, what's the Raptors fans are a little bit sensitive. Okay, lots of fans. And we haven't talked about them for months and they're going to. The Raptors fans will be, the Raptors fans will be A-OK.

Yeah, they'll be just fine. They're enjoying watching the playoffs on their couch as they always do, or this is they have for the last. Well, there's a Canadian team in the Stanley Cup finals, I believe. All right. Let's talk about the old NBA finals, which started on Thursday. Game one, Pacers at Thunder. I'm just going to say right now. I know. They both traded for Paul George. We got it. Move on. Got it. That's right. Move on.

How many times are we going to hear about that story in the next five days? Hey, did you know this? Breaking news. Speaking of Canadians, Shee Gilles Alexander and Akiel Alexander Walker or cousins. Exactly. Same file. Yeah. I know that also, here's something else. I know that Indiana and Oklahoma City are small markets. Oh. I get it. I get that the ratings would have been higher if it was Warriors against Celtics.

Got it. Thank you. Or if the next didn't. I just want to say something else. While everybody talks about how the NBA is going to suffer because of ratings. They just signed a TV deal. I know, but I'm going to say something else. I don't care what year it is.

I don't care what the TV deal is. The league benefits. Got a lot of soapbox and for windows. First off, it doesn't even matter. Like, what does it matter to either team? how long the series goes, it doesn't matter. But for people who are going to want, people on the coasts who are going to want

to bad mouth this finals, because it's small markets, let me say this. I don't care what anybody says. I don't care if it's David Stern's dream of Lakers playing Lakers. The thing that you want from a business perspective, and again, I don't know why people care about it, but I'm just going to get out of the way now.

Go when you go. The thing that you want is volume. The NBA is a... They're not going to get volume. volume. Well, they got a better chance of getting volume with the Pacers and they did with the Knicks. Yeah, the Knicks transition. I don't think, I don't think, here's what I would say. Well, you may be right about that, but I'm telling you the Pacers are a better challenge. Watching this game today, I don't know how anybody could watch these two teams and think that there should be a serious challenge to the Thunder in the final.

I will say this. I don't think that the Pacers are just going to be able to run fast and get layups. I think that top-ranked Thunder defense will put up a few more opt. And I don't know what I'm saying that's the only way they can score. And to be clear. They've got a lot of easy, easy, easy buckets in this series. Super easy. And the Pacers were awesome in the series. They've been awesome in the playoffs.

They're in an awesome team. But the Thunder have been challenged by exactly one team. And they have an inevitable force on their team who nearly took them down single-handedly. and they have they tore through Minnesota which I would say is a similar level team to both Indiana and New York and I expect them to tear through Indiana. You may in fact be correct about that. The only point I want to get out five days before the final start is that you would, the NBA, no matter what anybody says, trust me as somebody who's done it for over 20 years,

the NBA would rather have Toronto playing against New Orleans going seven games. and they would have the Lakers playing against the Knicks going forward. So what you're saying is this might be a worst case scenario? Well, this ball market doesn't last long. Well, again, that could be true. Jackson's got a prediction. Jackson called very. Thunder and five.

Yeah, that's going to be a hot take. Wendy told me he thought Thunder and three. I did not say that. I think the paper, I will say this. Just want to point something out. The Thunder are 80 and 18 this year. And they went 29 and 1. the Eastern Conference. The idea that they will lose four out of seven is hard to see.

It is far-fetched. But I will also say that I want to see that Tyrese Halliburton led the NBA in assist-to-turnover ratio. So let's see the best guy taking care of the ball, high volume, at least, taking care of the ball, go up against the greatest ball-hawking team I've ever seen. Yeah, it's going to be super fun. It's going to be super fun. And we've talked about it even during this series. Like the relentlessness with which the Pacers play on offense is matched by the relentlessness with which the Thunder play on defense. And both these teams pressure full court, both these teams use their depth. You know, it should be, I think, a really fun series to watch. And I'm excited to watch it from a basketball standpoint. And like I said, my thoughts on how long the

series are going to go is not a is not a denigration. of the Pacers. It's that the Thunderray 68 win team, and I, you know, we talked about it all year. I thought it was sort of silly the way that they were treated by most of the people in and around the league, most of the year, where it was treated like the Western Conference was wide open all year when it was insane to have that conversation. Who is marching? Who is the drum major for that one? Everyone was doing it. It wasn't one person. I kept turning on TV and there was one person on there just telling us. There were a lot of people saying it.

There were teams in the league saying it, players in the league saying it, media people saying it. And it, you know, again, I suspect that in a couple of weeks, we're going to be looking at the end of the playoffs and going, Nicole Yokic almost pulled off something remarkable in the second round. And it wasn't for Lou Dort. this all might have looked a lot different. Okay, bonus a rare gold star for you, a rare gold star for you, Bontems.

If I was a Nuggets fan, I don't know what would have happened if the Nuggets had played the Celtics in the finals last year. I just want to point out that the only team that the Celtics didn't beat last year was the Nuggets. Yeah. And Yolkich was...

And I don't think they would have beat the Nuggets either. I mean, we'll see, but that was the one team I didn't think they were going to beat last year. Yeah, I don't know what it happened and I, you know, you know how I feel about there's no asterisks is on. Not at all. No, there's no asterisk whatsoever. I'm just going to say that if you're a Nuggets fan, you got to be thinking about had they not dropped that ridiculous lead balloon in the second half of game seven to this, would they have won that second title?

And watching the way Oklahoma City just tore through. Minnesota, even though Minnesota was a tough matchup for Denver. We'll never know. It's just a reminder that even for teams as good as that, Lou Dort hitting a bunch of threes in the fourth quarter of game five, save their season. I know. And I'm just saying that Denver. That's how this stuff works.

Well, look, I remember what Calvin Booth, the now deposed, general manager said in that interview with the ringer, which I will refer to maybe for the next decade, where he said, If we handle our business, the essence of the quote was, if we handle our business, there's no reason why we shouldn't win three or four. And I agreed, but they didn't, they haven't handled their business. No. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

Well, and now let me ask you this. If the Thunder handle their business, how much should they? Well, listen, there's, we're on, we're not only in the seventh, We're going to have a seven straight year with a new champion. I think we're also in a sixth straight year going back to 2019 when the Warriors made the finals. That the team that won the title didn't get out of the second round. I find it very hard to believe sitting here right now that both those streaks are not in serious jeopardy. I'm just telling you.

Well, I'm going to tell you. They've got to win one before we can start talking about. Well, no, for sure. Absolutely. You have to. But it's all, as we've signed a lot. lot. It's all sitting there for them. I'm going to say that people in the league think this could be an explosive summer. So it's no, we can't have any idea what the league is going to look.

And I'll tell you, I'll say right now, say right now, let's say that the Thunder do what we expect and win four more games, you can take the field and turn whatever happens this summer and I'm taking the Thunder. Now, what you're going to have in that case is a team, that won 84 games and their top. Their oldest players, 31. They have two players who are 30-year-older. Every other player on the team is 27 and under, and they've got draft picks and a lottery pick

who's playing next year and young guys that are all getting better. And oh, by the way, the MVP of the league. Like, I mean, who also, hey, the MVP of the league who is a young guy still who is getting better. Who I expect to be extending his contract. By the way, And they went six to eight games With the two centers

Missing half the year. By July 15th, they could extend the contracts of all three of their young stars. Yeah. Who are all getting better. Jathan Williams getting like leaps and bounds better every year.

And look for and again, like go back to 2012, we thought the thunder were going to be back a lot. They weren't. It's very hard. You have to get lucky. All these things are true. But it's all for all the other chaos

that's going on, And there's going to be probably chaos this summer. The era of parity could quickly be coming to an end. Compare third year, Jalen Williams, to third year, Scotty Pippin. That's all I'll say. Whoa. That's all I'll say. It's hard to compare stats.

I look forward to the Pacers winning the finals at six. Right, right. Well, look, I will say this. Rick Carlisle has delayed a super team before. He certainly has. He certainly has. When we get to July 12th, which is when our live show is in Las Vegas,

the NRAG brand. Ooh, good plug. When we get to July 12th, could the Thunder have won the championship, could the Thunder have re-signed their three stars? Are they rolling out their lottery pick from last year that they kept on ice this year as he was recovering from a torn ACL, Nicola Topich?

And he probably made his debut in the rotation. He might have to roll out for the, for the blue. Well, or maybe he was the best player in Europe last year, or maybe he looks great. I mean, he also may not play in some other things he may be playing for Serbia. I don't know, but I'm just going to say

they have a lottery pick this year that they had on ice, that they were able to draft, that he slipped back to them because he had the torn ACL. And who knows who they draft with the 15th pick. For all I know, they'll package some stuff and there's a player and they'll move up for.

Well, or they'll move back and just keep having more and more picks. Whatever. I'm just saying, like, what if they roll out two guys in Summer League that we don't even know yet that are like that look great? Like, that's not far-fetched. Here's the kind of problem Sam Presti has. He has to extend these guys who are Max and or Supermax players. And he has these two picks in this year's draft where a full roster is coming back and no guys he wants to get rid of.

Well, and look, and for because we keep talking about all the chaos this summer, right? And by the way, the live show link is hooplive.eventbright.com. Thank you to Jackson for being on top of it, as always. The reason the chaos has happened in this summer is because you now look at the Eastern Conference. And yes, the Pacers right now look like the favorites. But the East is, as you said, Brian, all these teams in the middle tier in the East are going to look at it and say the Celtics are now, at least temporarily on hold. And there's an opening to make a run. And out West, you've got this feeding frenzy of teams that are both just trying to make the play in, make the playoffs, get into getting out of the first round of the playoffs, while also looking up at this potential

behemoth above them and saying, well, what are we going to do to try to keep up with that? Like, so there, all of that sets up for a lot of teams looking to do a lot of stuff, which in turn could lead to a lot of action. Right. Well, you have a sandwich effect. The second apron pressing down. The teams are in the second apron, Phoenix, Minnesota, Boston, trying to get out of it. I think all three of them are going to try to get out of it. You've got a couple of teams headed into the second apron. I think Cleveland, one more. But the second apron is nowhere you want to be for long, so you're going to constantly have teams at the top, you know, potentially squeezing out talent. And then you have some teams that have kind of gone all in over the last couple of years don't like

their hand and are going to maybe try to exit out. There's a few that I suspect could see 13 teams trying to win in the West next year. And they go, you know what? Actually, probably 14 teams, because I think Portland probably thinks it can win after the way they've finished. I don't know if they've got enough talent to compete. But Finch the other day said it was 15. I'm not there with the chance. I'll remove Utah from that one. Yeah. So, but let's just throw the six of Blazers of Bone and say there's 14 teams. Is there a team or two in there that's like, I don't like our standing here.

And if there's 14 teams trying to win, maybe we should not. I'm not going to call those teams names out, but I have a suspicion that they could be in seller mode. So you have some teams that are having to lose players because of salary. You have some teams that are ravenously trying to move up. And you have some teams that may try to sell because they see too many buyers. And that you got right there as a marketplace. So I don't know, we'll see.

We have the finals first, though. Yes. Let's focus on the finals first. So the big thing on the finals will be, both teams want to turn the ball over. The turnover battle will be the, they should put the score on one end of the bottom on the screen.

They should put the turnovers on the bottom on the other. I mean, I don't even... So decide the series. I don't, I don't. I don't think that's, to me, that's not the question. To me, the question is the, I think the pacer, I think the thunder are much better equipped to slow down the pacer than the pacer than the pacer's are to score on the thunder.

And I think that to me is the question in the series. Like, for example, looking at the series, Miles Turner had a pretty rough series. Carl Towns did a pretty good number on them. I don't know what you guys think. To me, if you look at how the Knicks handled the series. Carl had the ball, not necessarily together. I'm just, I mean, Miles didn't do much in the series.

I know, but they, but Miles Robinson. Miles was setting screens. I understand. I'm just saying, Miles Turner had an incredible first couple series. They didn't do much in this series. I would think the move for the thunder is to have Isaiah Hartnstein come off the bench, start Kaysen Wallace, say to chat Holmgren, you are going to be right on Miles Turner, and we're just going to take him out of the series.

And then they've got a thousand athletes to throw at Halliburton. They've got various guys that could throw at Seacom. And I'm not sure, like the Pacers are not an awesome half-court team. They're an unbelievable offense because of how they get out and run and they get easy buckets out of transition. and they create open offense. They're an awesome offensive half-court team when Halliburton is scoring, which isn't every game. And I just, that's the thing I struggle with. The paces are a team that's driven by their offense,

and the Thunder have a team that seems perfectly suited to lock them up. I don't think the Thunder are going to get to the finals and say, hey, this starting lineup we've been rolling with the entire playoffs isn't going to work in this series. We're scrapping it. Now, could they start second halves like that? could, you know, Deagonalbner, always is changing his lineup in the second half.

Yeah, I mean, he's been taking Hardinstein off to the second half all sorts of games. So I don't know. Could Hartinstein's minutes be, you know, fairly low in the series?

That I could say, you could also, you could also very easily say, hey, we're going to start with the same lineup and Miles Turner who couldn't do anything with Mitchell Robinson

in the series. By the way, I say Hartstein's probably just a more mobile version of Mitchell Robinson, so he's probably getting up a hard time with him on the Knicks. The Knicks fans miss I-Hart.

And the Knicks fans missed Mitchell Robinson in the fourth quarter tonight too. And you could say to Chet Holmgren, hey, Chet, we're just going to have you go guard Pascal Seaccombe and be even bigger and longer than him and be able to stick with him. So I just, the Thunder have an answer to all the different quirks that the Pacers have in a way that certainly the Cavs did not, when they had nobody to guard the perimeter guys for the Pacers and the Knicks did not, where they could just go at the Brunson and Towns hub

whenever they wanted. Like they, it's just gonna, I just don't see where they're gonna come up with those points and, yeah, I, you know, I just, I don't see how they're stopping Shea. Well, yeah, I don't see how they're doing it four times. That's the thing.

Like, you know, the Thunder are not an elite shooting team and they can have a night where they can't hit a shot from the outside and, you know, you could have that, or you have one night where the Pacers are super red hot, but. Yeah, I mean, Thunder and five, I think feels like the pretty reasonable, I'm sure will be a heavily selected prediction.

Rick Carlos said with the underdog in every game, except for tonight. They were the favorite in tonight's game. So, all right. Well, we will be talking about it. We're going to shift a little bit. I don't have a podcast that comes out on Wednesday. That I know.

But then after that, we're going to have podcasts that run the day of each game. Each game that will come out the day of each game. That's with us. And then because Bont-Teps and McMahon are going to have to work, both work post-game. And I'm going to have a timer on them. See who finishes faster. That's going to be a no contest.

We will have some post-game podcasts after us. We do have a- Write anything. That's right. I'm not comparing. I'm not putting myself in there. No, I'm talking about Bontems. Bontops is there to type my stories for me.

I said it was a no contest. Take that in any way you want. way you want. You're going to have to go see the Thunder trainer when you get in and get your, get a buddy wrapped. No, I'm good, man. Listen, we'll have some,

our bottom teams, pack your kicks. We're going to have pickup up. By the way, how many, how many pairs of, how many, you brought, it's 97.

I got a lot of comments about the band shoes. A lot of comments. Seriously, I want a photo. A bunch of dorks. I want, when you get to Oklahoma City and unpack, I want you to line them all up, and I want to see the photo. Honestly, how many, so let's lay this out.

I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think I can go more than I did last series. And I can't go more suits. Like, I can fit eight. Well, there's more TV days. Well, I know, I'm at to double. I'm not to like, don't tell anybody, but I'm not to like repeat some suits probably well, unless you're right.

I had four jackets for the conference files. Unless you're right on the, if you're right on your position. Shoes or suits. Hey, if you're right under. prediction. I'll be a-okay on both of them. So you're not going to prepare? Not can prepare for seven? I will have to, if there's seven, there'll be some suits repeated and it won't be kids repeated for games, not for games. You can't. I mean, God forbid, God forbid to go home to Dallas, the very long three-hour drive that he can't make. Dude, just you do your job and I'll do mine. But how many shoes are we bringing?

The people want to know. Well, there'll be. Probably there'll be eight suits, so eight kicks, plus my everyday, just like, you know, a pair of chucks or blazers or whatever, just kind of wear on it, you know, just around. Plus. The round shoes. Plus some shoes, you know, some running shoes in case I listen to the IT department and get on the elliptical. We got a round shoes. We got running shoes. We got hoop shoes.

Can I ask me? No, we'll talk here. We'll talk. We're up to 12 pairs of shoes. What is you? That's 11, you dofess. What is your method for pack? I'm not making funny.

I don't want to know. What is your method for packing them? How do you put them in your suitcase? I would seriously take a photo. I would like to see a photo. Do you have like an NBA team level shoe bag? No. You know what?

You might want to think about that. Listen, I pack shoes. I've now had to, I've got to bring a duffel bag. That's just like I put my hoop shoes in there, put my running shoes in there. And then like a bunch of, if you must know, like underwear and T-shirts and stuff, that's a duffel bag. And then there's one bag that's like, you know, paired two jeans and some golf shirts, just in case I have to look like fairly classy if I go out to a decent dinner.

And then just a bunch of shoes and sweats and hoodies and whatnot. And then there's this all suits with, you know, suits and dress shirts and whatnot. That's just one other full check bag. So you'd see. Three bags. There's two bags. No, four, because then there's a computer bag. So there's two check bags.

a duffel bag and a computer bag. Oh, my God. So the shoes are in the duffel bag. Actually, don't say that. Somebody will see that duffel bag. No, only two pairs of shoes are in the duffel bag. The good kicks are in a check bag. All right, a couple more things.

One, after each game, we're going to have a short podcast with, I believe we have an NBA champion who's going to be our special guest, I believe. But I'm a little bit worried about saying it because every year. An ESP employed NBA champion? Is he employed? He's employed by somebody. Is he in the NBA right now? No.

No, is he an ESPN employee? It's a gray area. Okay. But, you know, and I remember a couple years ago, Perk was all set up to do the... That's what I was trying to get at. No, it's not Perk. It's not Perk. By the way, Perk wants to come on.

He looked at me the other day and he gave me like a... He's like, I'm pissed at you, man. I'm like, why? He goes, I haven't been on your podcast. I'm like, Perk. You've blown it off about seven times. All right. So that's one thing.

The other thing is this. Jackson will be on the road with us. Jackson, you're invited to this. Dude, for the last four years. This is really sad because he heard about tipsy-ticky and then he had to get on board. The last four years, we've had an annual ESPN tradition of movie night during the finals. Oh, God.

What a bunch of things. Yeah, you don't come. So fine. You can be quiet. The last, the first year it happened was when we saw a time. Top Gun. We saw it in the IMAX in San Francisco. That was the one I participated in.

The last two years, what do you have to say, McMahon? You don't think we don't think Top Gun and the IMAX was a great night? I mean, go on. All right, the last two years, I'm not going to lie, the Pickens were rough. It was a rough time. However, this year, there's like four or five excellent movies that are available. So. Isn't there only one option?

I'll tell you what. I'll make you deal. If you come hang out of the tipsy-tiki, then I will go to movie night. He ain't doing that. Isn't there only one option to go to a blockbuster movie right now? No, there's several good movies out. I know he's not doing that. I don't think my preference of the Phoenician scheme is going to win out.

That would be my preference. But... Is that a movie? It is a movie. I think the Mission Impossible movie is going to be the choice with the ultimate movie star. Well, maybe, maybe not. There's several potentially good movies. And so, like, if people want to make a case in the comments, Jackson can tell me.

I don't look at the comments. Let's see. Why are you surfing for YouTube comments that you're never going to listen to anyway? I'm aura farming. Oro farming. You really are aura farming. What is happening right now? We're talking about our finals plans.

Did you just learn the term aura farming? He learned it when Tyrese Halliburton said it the other day. Oh, he did. That's when he learned it. Okay, I learned it from some of these young whippersnapper writers who accuse players of a reforming and I had to like say, what the hell is that? I'd never heard it before, before Halliburton said it. I'd never heard something.

So if it's a popular thing, it was now. And now Bride's doing it. Tell me what we go to that I'm not going to listen to. Wendy has been doing it unwittingly for quite a. sometimes. Why would he do that? Why would he do that? Jackson's cutting that out.

There's strays all over the place at 150 in the morning. All right. What a rollicking end of the pod. Just to think, in a couple of days, they're going to be doing this in person. It's going to be swell. Jackson's, Jackson gets to do the thing where he comes in and claps. Jackson, make sure, make sure that you get good.

like up close of my kicks in this series. That's all I'm saying. All right. A lot of effort to put in to these things. Is 11 pairs of kicks. 11 or 12. We lose count. Yeah.

It's great. You're farming something else with that move. All right. Thank you to Jackson for staying up late. Thank you to Bon Temps for staying up late. I'm going to bed in my own bed. McMahon's going to bed in his own bed. I don't get a thank you.

Thank you to McMahon. Okay. Thank you. Absolutely. Sorry. Playing hurt. Playing hurt. Thank you for watching.

Listening to the group of kids. On Saturday night, we will talk to you on Wednesday, I think. Adios, amigos.