Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - OKC Set Up For Dynasty? Best RFA’s Remaining & LeBron’s Lakers Future

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the Thunder locking in Jalen Williams & Chet Holmgren long-term including how this sets up OKC with a strong chance to repeat before diving into the top restricted free agents remaining on the market. Then, the guys dive into the state of the Lakers including LeBron’s future with the organization as it becomes Luka’s team. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to Who Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Monday afternoon and Monday evening, very late, in Lisbon, Portugal, where Bon Temps has returned, completing his four trips over the Atlantic in the last week to make sure he could be at the live show, Mr. Bontemps. Oh, everybody.

Join us from Los Angeles, where he's relocated from Las Vegas. The Mavericks announced the Cooper Flag was done playing in Summer League, and that meant Van McMahon was done being there himself. Howdy, partners? Looking forward to a spirited summer edition of the Who Collect Beer. That's what we deliver. Okay, so we had a great time with the podcast over the weekend. Thanks to everybody who came out if you got to see it or listen to it on the various platforms. I hope you enjoyed it.

We really appreciate Alex Rodriguez and Mark Lorry from the Timberwolves and Nick Nurse from the 76ers for joining us and the Corson, the course of machine, Kevin Pelton. And there was some business that was done over the weekend, you know, pretty significant business for the league. Summer League, there's a lot of young guys playing. There's some interesting storylines and those developed, but there was big business done over the weekend. The Oklahoma City Thunder officially signed both J-Dubb, J-Lylin Williams, and Chet Holmgren.

I think Holmgren actually signing took place on Sunday to brand-new maximum contract extensions. And with the Shade Gildes-Elexander extension, that took place, I think he signed it last week sometime too. but over those seven days, they locked in their championship core for the next five years. The contracts have no opt-outs, which is obviously something that the Thunder wanted. And they're going to be expensive. There's no doubt about that.

Shea signed what was the largest contract on average annual value in MBA history until Devin Booker officially signs his contract. But it's going to be over $70 million a year in value. and Chet, Holmgren, and Jalen Williams both got max contracts, 25% max, the quote-unquote fun max that is not so fun in the new CBA with the second apron. So Bontemps, they're going to be an expensive team. That's the reality, but a couple of things here. One, the Thunder are not going to be paying them that big money this upcoming season.

Holmgren and Williams remain in their current, you know, rookie scale contracts. So not only will the Thunder not have any sort of money crunch as they try to defend, but even they probably won't even pay the luxury tax, I don't even think, yet again. So they have a potential to compete for a championship without paying the luxury tax. And because they haven't paid the luxury tax, they haven't even started their repeater, you know, clock yet. So, Bont-Tamps, while this is definitely going to bite into them, and this is what the new CBA is designed to keep a team like this,

from being able to stay together for the long term. This is really good news for the Thunder to have these guys all under contract with no player options. Yeah, I mean, having three under, you know, I guess Chase is over 25, but under, you know, 26 and under star level players under contract for the rest of the decade

is a pretty awesome place to be. And yeah, like, they're going to have some real decisions to make going forward. After this season, we'll see, what does the hard science future is in OKC, what the door's future is in OKC, what a case, eventually what a case in Wallace, extension is going to look like an OKC, you know, whether they're not going to be able to keep

everybody on this team. But you look to try to find guys like Chigil South Sandor and Jalen Williams and Chet Hongren. They all showed that they could be part of a team that can win a title, obviously, over the last couple months. And, you know, I mean, as McManas talked about a bunch, Chad Hongren spent most of last season either injured or recovering for being injured and never really was at full strength. And before he got hurt, he was looking like he was probably their second best player. And that's on a team where Jamie Williams was a deserving all-MBA player, had a 40 piece in the finals, and did all that while dealing with a wrist injury throughout the playoffs himself.

So, you know, we spent the last, I don't know, year at least talking about how great a situation the thunder are in. And getting these guys locked up is just one of many reasons why that's the case. and I suspect they're going to be able to weather the financial storm coming pretty well too. And Dubb did get Supermax eligibility in his contract. I like his odds. He was all-N-BA this year. You know, certainly did a lot to boost his reputation during that playoff run and would think he's going to have a good shot at being an all-MBA again next year,

especially with some of the other all-MBA candidates, unfortunately not going to be able to play next season. But you hit the two guys who are going to kind of be the first, pressure points as far as like the long-term financial picture of the Thunder. And, you know, it's Lou Dort, who I believe, is that a team or a player option for Lou in the last year of his deal? It is a player option. It's a player option. Team option for both. Oh, club option. You're right. Team option. Okay. That's what I thought. Okay. So, Lou Dort, club option at 17.7 million for 26, 27. And then Isaiah Hartenstein at 28.5 million.

But again, we'll see what happens there. But the point is, they're making, their difficult decisions will start at, you know, the fourth, fifth, six spots on the roster, not first, second, third. They've got those three guys locked up long term. And then, you know, Sam Presti's done a great job of using some of his first round picks already. He's got just a bundle of those things to come. But you look at Case and Wallace. Now, I think Case and Wallace is going to be positioned for a pretty nice contract himself,

but he is a potential Lou Dorr replacement if it if it doesn't work out to where Lou will be there long term and I don't think it's out of the question that Lou could end up being there for years to come. Same thing with Hartinstein that has drafted this big guy out of

Georgetown Thomas Sorber who you know long arms shop locker nice passer very Hartnstein-esque type of player will see if after his rookie season he's a rotation can it or not, but that the whole point of Presti having so many picks and continue to kind of push those picks into the future is to be able to manage the payroll when some of these tough decisions

come up and he's got so many swings at it that they can afford to lose some rotation players and still be able to put a championship caliber supporting cast around their three stars. Yeah, so let's let me go over that's the raw math. So this upcoming season, 25, 26, Shea, Holmgren, and J. Dub are going to cost about $59 million between the three of them put together. 59 million, all right? That is, the value of that is insane. So that's what we'll be, so next year, 26, 27, when the, when Chet and J. Dub's new money come on, the three of them are going to cost. about $120 million. That is still for three-star players very, very good.

You know, for example, in that same year, Tatum and Jalen Brown are going to cost a little bit less than that, you know, two, you know, two studs, but three versus two. Then in, and by the way, in 26, 27, the sort of the first big cash year for all three of them, Holmgren and J-dub are actually going to be making more than SGA. slightly because that's going to be the last year of SGA's legacy contract, the last year of the fun max. So that's actually amazing. Then the Supermax kicks in and he gets a $20 million raise. And in 27, 28, the three of them combined will earn $150 million. So that's where, you know, that's where the tough choices come in either way. And they will be in trouble, not trouble,

but they will have challenges about resigning guys between now and then the role players. But still, the next two years, they're still at discounts. So they can compete for championships with these three guys and probably still be able to outfit the rest of the roster for the next two years. This is the thing that happened, Bonn Temps, with the Celtics. The Celtics, as they were signing these guys to big numbers,

they still saw themselves having a window before they got squeezed. And in year two of that sort of three-year window, they won the title. in year three of the window, unfortunately Tatum got hurt. But they had a team, a 60-win team that was favored to win the championship and then they obviously,

things went sideways on them. But that's where the thunder, before the thunder sort of have the pressures that the Celtics just had, they will still, you know, have two more seasons. And what the Celtics didn't have that the thunder are going to get, as you guys mentioned,

are other teams draft picks between now and then. They've already got other teams. draft picks. You know, the Celtics were drafting guys in the, in the late 20s, you know, the Baylor Shireman's of the world, whereas the Thunder are bringing in lottery guys. They've got two lottery picks, and this year's will be rookies this year who have yet to play. Maybe neither will work out.

I don't know. But that's where they're different. So while it is definitely a challenge, this is something to celebrate. And no team could possibly be more ready for this. the thunder. Maybe they won't win the next two years. You mean, there's a lot of different variables that you can't predict, but they are very well positioned. And this year alone, I mean, in two years when Shay's salary kicks in, when the new supermax he just signed actually kicks in, he's going to be making $60 million, okay, earned every dime. This year, the three of them

will earn $59.5. Well, and it's amazing. Think about the profit they're going to be making, right? As a team not paying luxury tax. So, you're... you're getting luxury tax payments and they just had, I don't know how many of the, I think it was 12 of 23 playoff games or something like that. A ton of home playoff gates. I would anticipate they'll get a lot of home playoff gates next season as well. And then what happens in 2008? They're opening up a new arena.

You think there's going to be some revenue generated from that new arena that is costing. Clay Bennett, the Thunder owner, a grand total of $50 million. I mean, he's paying less for the arena than he's going to be paying SGA's salary. That's true. It was also interesting on this topic. It flew under the radar during the finals. But Barry Trammell, our friend from the Tulsa World had a story. I believe it either ran right after the finals or during them that insinuated, not even insinuated,

had sources telling him that sometime in the somewhat near future the Thunder will be sold. which in concert with how fast the teams, how fast the valuations of teams around the league are going up. It also would be reminiscent somewhat of what happened with the Celtics who had a very expensive team and sold the team as it was getting very expensive and his hard decisions were going to have to be made about payroll and potentially losing guys off teams that's a championship level team. Now, it wasn't, he did not say,

say the thunder are going to be sold today or tomorrow, but they have been a remarkably stable organization the entire time they've been in Oklahoma City with Clay Bennett, essentially handing the keys to San Presi and saying, do your thing and I'm not going to get in the way. And that will be very interesting. If that does come to pass, both the timing of when it happens and also who takes over because they have been in many ways a model franchise for their tenure in Oklahoma City. And we've seen a lot of new owners have a lot of impacts, a lot of places, and it's just something that bears watching. A little new owner syndrome. We've seen it.

We've seen it a time or two. I would say, I would hope there's not a new owner syndrome situation if you've got a potential dynasty on your hands. I would hope you maybe would trust the guy who's built that and is positioned it to be an extended window. Well, I will say this. Just let them work. Montemps does bring something interesting up. Out of everything that we just discussed, I would say everything is all green lights for the thunder, despite, you know, the things that we know. Chat, you know, but Bontemps wrote a story at the end of the season about how the thunder are in position, the better team is as good as team as we've seen to buck the trend of seven consecutive different champions.

That, you know, in a dynasty, a largely dynasty proof league, Bontem's laid out as some of the stuff we just did here, why the thunder might be able to over. overcome that trend. And we just said with all the money, they should be able to afford it and be okay. That report that Barry Trammell put out, and to my knowledge, that was nobody disputed that. At least I didn't see a dispute. But the quote he used is that quite likely they'll consider selling the franchise in the next few years, or the near future, I should say. That was probably more relevant than any of the other stuff that happened with the sales, because you just don't know would happen. And the Thunder, Clay Bennett is the Thunder's governor, but the Thunder are owned, I think there's three businessmen that own roughly the same percentage. They all own the same

percentage. Clay Bennett has the control share. But, you know, there's other things at stake, and all of them are over the age of 65. And in the case of the Celtics, the one of the, in addition to how expensive they were going to be, one of the driving principles for the reason that the Celtics or being sold is that Irving Grusbach, who is the controlling owner, he owns the largest share. His son, Wick, is the governor, is 90 years old and he's doing estate planning.

And he also knew that with the new media rights deal, that franchise values would be very high. So he took a championship team with high franchise values facing the state things, and that's what led to it. But all that is to say, if you're an NBA team and, you know, you've been hearing, a lot of stuff about second apron stuff

and you may be thinking yourself well that it's got to bite the thunder in the next couple of years I don't think it's going to and the reason is number one that Sam Presti and his staff have drafted very well so that these young and develop these young players are good before their salaries balloon

and also Sam Presti had three years to evaluate how to manage the second apron coming in and he managed it well, like with the contracts he signed, Lou Dort and Isaiah Hardinstein too. Well, and other contracts, you know, Hartnstein was highest in year one than flat the next couple of years. Isaiah Joe is a descending deal. Aaron Wiggins is a descending deal.

Jalen Williams, the center, is highest in year one than flat. Same with A.J. Mitchell, the guard. Like, none of this stuff, none of these, you know, concerns are, like, catching Sam Presti off guard. He's been plotting and planning for years. And, you know, these things, like, maybe it's a little bit more expensive than anticipated. Because I don't know if as he started plotting and planning, he anticipated, uh, Jalen Williams, the wing being potentially getting a supermax. Yeah. Yeah.

But pretty good problems to have. I will say this. Palo Bancaro signed his max contract with the magic last week, and he was the first player in three years to get a player option on a max contract, a rookie scale max contract. And that trend got halted by the Thunder. Holmgren and Williams got halted. Also, one minor thing,

Chet Holmgren does not have the escalators in his contract. So were Chet Holmgren, for example, to win defensive player of the year. You win defensive player of the year. You become Supermax eligible. This just happened with Evan Mowgli. Mowgli signed his extension. He got a defensive player of the year, escalator in it. He wins defensive player of the year.

He also made all NBA, so he would have gotten it that way. But the Cavs have to spend a lot more money. Chet did not get that. So for the Thunder to get no options, even though Bancaro had, you know, in theory, set the tone for that class. They did get those quote-unquote wins. But ultimately they've got rings, and that's the most important win of all, as we know here. When you win a championship, it means never saying you're sorry.

And if they have to say sorry in three years because they paid these guys big much, they'll still have the ring on the banner. What if you win multiple championships? You can say a couple more things. Yes. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. We had some good and interesting news on Monday. Victor Wenbanyama told the keep in France that he had been cleared over the weekend.

Actually, Friday, he was, I believe McMahon, he was in Las Vegas, right? Wasn't he at these games? Oh, yeah. He just walked right in during that game. And big guy, can't really miss him as he walks in his courtside seat. Well, he apparently saw the Spurs medical staff in Vegas just back from Tokyo. He's made two trips to Asia this offseason that we're aware of. I mean, one to China and one to Japan.

He was dancing in a Japanese club last week. I saw some video from that. But anyway, the point is he has been cleared to resume basketball activities. Wasn't he doing like bicycle kicks and stuff? Yeah, so look, I don't train it with monks. Yeah, I don't exactly 100% know all of the stuff. So I'm not going to, you know, say, I would say this. As somebody who had a blood clot years ago, typically you would not be able to be cleared for that stuff.

If you didn't, if the doctors weren't pretty sure you were not going to fall and have internal bleeding. As you were returning from your blood clots, were you doing bicycle kicks? I was able to cut those out. of my routine. So it was hard. But, but so my guess is he had already been in a good spot from, you know, potentially off bloodthening medication. Yeah.

But, you know, he has been vague about whether he had surgery for this or not. So maybe he'll clarify that later on. The spurs from the start were confident that he would be clear to return. So this is what's important. He has been cleared. He's going to be able to start playing basketball again, which McMahon is good because it's only July. Like he shouldn't be able to get, you know,

I'm sure they're going to be careful with him, but he should be able to get several months of court work coming into the season. So I'm sure they'll, you know, not let him play 48 minutes, but. Sure, two and a half months, though, of, you know, real off-season basketball work. Has there been any clarity on his potential participation in Eurobasket for France?

That is a really good. Now, Bonteps mentioned last week that Chris Saps Porzingis reaffirmed he intends to play for Latvia. Latvia, by the way, a sneaky contender to win. Yeah, at least to be a good spot. Yeah, also the final four is in Latvia. Ah, I didn't even, I knew it was in three different countries. I knew it was Poland. Yeah.

Well, yeah, the group plays in different spots, but the final rounds are in Latvia. some extra motivation for Or Zingis to play. This would be Wimby's Eurobasket debut. But whether he plays in that or not, obviously great news that he's going to be in basketball activities for two and a half months heading into camp. No reason to think anything other than he's going to be ready to roll and in great form come to start of the season. And Spurs are a very interesting team. I don't know what the over-under would be. I don't know if we can go a little double or nothing.

I believe I've probably chipped away at that dinner bet despite the, you know, the fact that Wemby not playing 50 games waved it off. But they've got some really interesting pieces. Obviously made the big deal for Darren Fox, Stefan Castle, Rookie of the Year, Stafon Castle, rookie of year, I should say. And man, bond temps, we're in the arena the other day for the little bit of Summer League action that Dylan Harper got, but it was a pretty, pretty good whatever it was, 18, 19 minutes of action. That, you know, lo and behold, the number two overall pick looks like a guy who can make an instant impact. Yeah, I think he had 16 points in 18, 19 minutes.

It was his first game since February or March, the beginning of March, playing for Rutgers. hadn't done anything really since then, missed the first couple summer league games of the groin injury in California and in Vegas. But yeah, he, I think he's going to be awfully good. I'm very curious to see what happens with the Spurs this year because they do have some, obviously, some present-day talent with Victor and Deerrin Fox. Jackson says the over-under is 43 and a half. I mean, that's interesting. That's a pretty good line. They do have a lot of fit issues to sort out. I don't really know if Deeran Fox still in Harper and Stefan Castle long term makes sense to ball beyond the same team, which is an

interesting thing to sort out. You know, it's so I'm very curious to see what that looks like. You know, so they do have some real questions to answer with their team, but, you know, they go hire Sean Sweeney this summer. They very clearly, you know, Victor is clearly going to be coming in this season, expecting to win games. They have the ability to move money around to go. have more pieces if they want, if they choose to, their situation and how they approach this

season and what they look like in year three of the victor is going to be very interesting on a lot of fronts. And, you know, we also, they made the Deerrin Fox trade. I think those guys played like me. I don't even think five games. I was going to say, I knew it was five games. I don't even think it was 100 minutes on the court together. So, you know, they're basically going to be started from scratch with that partnership too. So there's just a lot of stuff in San Antonio to get sorted out. And I mean, obviously, we haven't even really hardly talked about. it, but, you know, mentioned Sean Sweeney. He's going to be coaching under Mitch Johnson, who is officially the successor to Great

Popovich. And, you know, even though he was the interim coach for a lot of last season, it's a different thing when you're fully in the job and you come in from training camp and you're the guy replacing Greg Popovich with that team. So they are going to be one of the most interesting teams in the league next year. And it is going to be fun to see what that group ultimately looks like on the court because I think they expect that they're going to start winning games. You know, as we've talked about a ton, the West is really, really hard.

There is a report out of Europe today, by the way, I just looked at he still is not planning on playing in Eurobasket. I don't know if that's the definitive thing, but I just wanted to follow up on that. Sorry. Yeah, it's good to know. I was at, you know, when we're out in Vegas, talk to some Spurs folks and basically saying, hey, you know, how do these guards fit together? Obviously, Darren Fox, a guy that made a big swing at in the trade market. And then, you know, two got a number four overall pick who was just rookie the year in Castle and Harper, the number two overall pick. And they're all kind of lead guards.

But I didn't get a whole sense of concern about the fit. It's basically like, hey, two guard spots, 96 minutes, three guys, they're all going to play. And then you kind of figure that out as you go. But they've got some real depth on this team now. You know, Devin Vassell, quality player, you know, Kelton Johnson, coming off the bench. Harrison Barnes still there, Jeremy Sohan, and then added Carter Bryant,

we'll see how much he plays as a rookie. And then went out and added a couple of big men this summer in Luke Cornet and Kelly Olenick, who they just traded for. And it's, you know, the sense around the Spurs is like, hey, it's time to make a jump. It's time to really be a competitive team. Now, what exactly that means at the end of the season

in this loaded Western Conference, they might be a very competitive team that doesn't get a playoff spot. Like, that's possible. But, you know, they definitely, like, they need to make a big stride forward this season, for sure. Two things with us first to keep an eye on going forward, in addition to what you guys talked about.

One, Deeran Fox is extension eligible. He cannot extend until August 3rd. We've talked a lot about Luca Donchich. his extension date is August 2nd. Fox can't until August 3rd. So we'll see in the month about whether or not that gets done. They can give him another max and give them up to $230 million. There was an expectation that when they traded for him

and they sent three firsts for him to Sacramento, that that would be their intention. You can't just hand out auto-max contracts these days. So let's just see how that goes. Maybe that's what they'll do. I don't know. The other thing that is important for them going forward, forward is you mentioned Olenek and Harrison Barnes. Both of them are on expiring contracts. You

slap them together and you got almost $33 million between the two of them. You put in Sohan in there, you could get up to 40, not that they could extend Sohan this offseason if they want to. Now, right now, I would say that there isn't anybody they should be trying to trade for. But they have extra picks. They have young players. They have the ability with those, with that, with what's on their roster, that if they want to go big game hunting, they can. This is one of the reasons why, You saw Kevin Durant put him, put them on there on the list, on his short list where he would like to go if the, you know, if they were interested, they ended up not making a serious bid. So just keep that in mind when you think about the Spurs going forward. Can I ask you a question that I don't think you would get a straight answer from Spurs folks about?

Sure, there's quite a few things you wouldn't, but go ahead. Do you think they would have traded for Deerrin Fox had they known they were going to, land second in the lottery and get Dylan Harper? No. I don't think they would have. But also it's, you know, they also weren't going to know that. I mean, there's no way to know it. But it's just, it's interesting because, you know, they obviously traded for Fox thinking, hey, here's a guy approaching his prime who can be the long term fit next to Wimby. And then they got a guy in Harper who could be the longer term. Well, I would say this. This is why the Fox extension becomes something you've got to just do some work on, in my view. Maybe they'll just give him the max and they'll move on. But let's say Harper turns out to be the stud that many people think that he is. And you get into a situation where you have an excess guard. Look, maybe Fox and Wendy work together great and you would not dream of it. I'm not, I'm just saying that, but, you know, this is the way you got to think if you're a front office.

You don't want to sign Fox to a contract that if you have interest in a year or so to trade him, that it becomes an issue. Right. And I mean, you know, how do you know? How do you know? You don't know. I mean, Fox could be an all-star again this year. And maybe Dylan Harper turned out to be a very good player, but not great player.

Maybe that's not the way to do it. You got to get him into a contract because he's headed for a free agency otherwise. You don't want to, you want to get him signed. And there's going to be a lot of space next year. And unlike this year, we're only two. teams really had significant space. Next year, Bobby was telling us, you know, depending on how things go, there could be more than 10 with significant space.

And, you know, you do not want Aaron Fox as a free agent in that situation. So you do need to get him into a contract. But, you know, Bon,eps and I have talked about this for months. There needs to be, you know, Bon Temps has been calling out teams that are not doing negotiations. You know, they're just giving guys extensions. He's been, this is why. You got to negotiate everything. even if you love the player and you want to keep the player,

you just can't auto give the most amount of money. You've got to negotiate. It is just the responsible thing to do for these teams. You have to in the new environment. There's just no wiggle room anymore because even if you want to spend all the money, there's other costs that come with it beyond just spending the owner's money. So it just makes it very difficult to keep building the team. But yeah, look, I mean, I think if they knew they were getting Dylan Harper, they wouldn't have invested draft picks and getting another lead guard, they would have just got Dylan Harper and probably went and found other pieces to try to put around those guys to build out the roster.

I mean, this is a team that is pretty weak on the wing. They don't have, like, Luke Cornette's a nice backup center, but, you know, the three, four spots are not where I think they need to be for these guys to be a. real threat to, you know, be a top 16 probably in the West. So they do have some other stuff to do, but they've got a lot of stuff they can move around. They got a lot of interesting pieces to fit together. And like I said, I just, it's going to be a very fun puzzle on a lot of levels to watch how they operate this year to see how these guys all fit. And I mean, I don't remember if we talked about it before or not, but Carter Bryant is a hell of a defensive player already. And he might end up just starting right off the bat. I mean, that's not a source thing. That's just me watching. But. I'd be surprised if Fassel doesn't start, but we'll see. Yeah, I mean, but he's kind of a two. Like, that's the thing. Like, he's not even, I don't know if he's big enough to really be a three. Like, they just have a lot of, they got a lot of questions to answer across the board.

But the good thing is they got a lot of talent to do it with. And it is going to be a fun jigsaw puzzle to see how Mitch Johnson tries to put it together and puts the pieces out on the court. And hopefully Victor is out there doing this thing again. If they're a top six seat in the west, Wimby will be an MVP candidate. I'll go out on that, Lill. Yeah, I'd agree with that too. By the way, 120 minutes with Fox and Wembe on the floor together. Oh, okay.

A negative net rating, but that's obviously tiny sample size. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. So this has been a tough three weeks for the restricted free agents of this class. This is the 2021 draft class that, guys that did not get extended before that got to free agency. So some guys got paid from this class last summer. Cade Cunningham got a max. Evan Moby got a max.

Scotty Barnes got a max. Franz Wagner got a maxes. That's four guys in the top eight got maxes. A parent Schengoon got a lot of money. Trey Murphy got a lot of money. Jalen Johnson got a lot of money. And earlier this year, Santi Aldama, who was really the only guy of the restricted guys

who's gotten paid so far, got well paid. Jalen Green got a pretty nice chunk of money, but not a long-term deal. Correct. He got paid. I should clarify that he did get paid over $30 million. So Jalen Suggs also got a very good contract. So a lot of this class has been taken care of. If you go back and look a year earlier in the 2020 draft, I think there were four guys who got Maxis.

That would be Ann Edwards, Lamello Ball, Tyrese Halliburton, and Des Bain, who was the 30th pick. And a bunch of guys from that draft that have gotten paid really well. Jaden McDaniels being one, Emmanuel quickly being one. Oh, Tyrese Maxie, he would get a max too. So there's five, five in that.

And then the 2022 class, which is the guys who are getting paid this summer, we've already seen Palo Ban Carroll get a max, the number one pick, Chad Holmgren, the number two pick, get a max. And we've seen, you know, Jaylor Williams, 12 got a max. Jabari Smith, Jr., got very good,

money. He was the number three pick and some of the other guys are going to get paid too. So, but the 2021 draft, these are the guys who got sort of stuck. And primarily Josh Giddy, Jonathan Cominga, and Quentin Grimes, and I guess you would put Cam Thomas from the Nets in there. So we talked to the pod. I would not put Cam Thomas. Oh, Cam Thomas is out there. So, you know, of the guys from this summer who have gotten taken care of from that draft, Davian Mitchell did get a contract from the heat, but he's been traded around a little bit. Quentin Grimes has been traded twice, for that matter.

But, you know, I do hear- The Gras were traded three times. Three times, yeah. Yeah. New York to Detroit, to Dallas, to Philly. Yeah. That's right. So, all right.

So what I am suspecting here is, you know, these guys are going to have decisions. They're all going to have decisions coming up about whether or not they want to take the qualifying offer, which is when you sign a qualifying offer, all of them have to have qualifying offers. Otherwise, they're not restricted. If you sign the qualifying offer, you get an automatic no trade clause because if you get traded, the team loses the, the bird rights so they can't pay you no matter what so that's why you get you know an implied no trade clause so you can have control over that and so the the team you control whether you get traded and you also are at odds with the team there are examples in NBA history where a player has signed a qualifying offer and things have gone okay and he stayed with the team but most of the time

it signals that this is the beginning of the end with the team. So there's also the possibility that there are offers that these guys will be forced to accept. Now, I talked earlier about how this summer was nuclear winter for free agents, especially for restricted guys, because there was only two teams with significant space. Next summer there's theoretically a lot more. There's some reasoning for saying,

okay, I choose free agency next year. Let's just roll it over and try again. And the qualifying officer, offers are all pretty good money. You get a pretty good bump on what you were going to make last year. Let me just take a look at what Kamingas is off the top of my head because I think it's pretty good money. Not what he's hoping to get paid, obviously.

But it's not something that, you know, you're really being penalized for. I mean, it's a pretty hard sell to take the qualifying offer over the real offer. So you want to just go kind of case by case here, maybe starting with Kaminga. I mean, I think we should do Grimes first just because it's easy. Okay. He's obviously, he's restricted with Philly. I have thought the whole summer this is going to end with him signed in a probably two or three year deal for a little bit over the mid-level.

And there's not really a reason for it to get done any sooner because there's not anybody else who can offer him a deal. And that's a fair offer. They qualify an offer is $8.7 million. That's what he would be taking. Yeah. Yes, he has not made very much money in his career. He's drafted, I think, 25th in the first round.

So if he gets something like 345, something in that ballpark, it's a little over the mid-level, and he gets out in FreehC again pretty early, like, I think that's a deal to make sense for everybody. And my guess is he eventually signs that with Philly and he's there. Yeah, and it was out there that he wanted something like 25 million a year. That's just not realistic. You know, like, hey, he put up good numbers for Philly, but he put up good numbers when somebody had to score. And he was efficient doing it, but come on. Like, you're not getting paid off of putting up some numbers for a team that's losing every night.

Not to market when nobody has any space. And his negotiations with the Mavericks last year, he wanted basically, you know, a full mid-level deal. The Mavericks were more in that, like, like, 8 to 9 million range. They wanted to give him something like Naji Marshall's contract, which is three for, 27, that was a big factor in the thinking of the Mavericks trading him for Cody Martin, who's on the deal right in that $9 million per year range. Now, that deal blew up in the Maverick's face. Cody Martin was hurt at the time.

I'm sorry, Caleb Martin. I, of all people, should get my twins straight, although they're identical, so it's more confusing. Anyways, the deal blew up in the Mavericks face for a variety of reasons. It pushed them right up against the thing where they couldn't even sign a guy to another 10 days, so on and so forth. And it looked really bad because Grimes has put it up a ton of points for Philly. But I'm just telling you, like, there were Mavericks coaches who were not happy with another trade that the team made and weren't shy to let me know about it. None of the Mavericks coaches were upset about the trade for, you know, the Grimes for Martin trade.

They didn't really value Grimes long term, which is a long-winded way of saying if he's getting something around the mid-level, I think that would be a good deal for him. Yeah, and I think it's over the mid-level a little bit, as Bontem said, it incentivizes him to sign it because that's more than anybody he's probably going to offer him at this point. Josh Giddy's qualifying offer is $11 million. You know, his situation is, you know, when he got playing time towards the end of the season, when they had the injuries, he put up really good numbers. And I'm sure his position is, well, play me starters minutes and I'll continue to put up good numbers. Yeah, he's never had a problem putting numbers up. That's not the issue.

Well, and the issue is defensively. Well, and also, like, hey, Josh Giddy, to be. productive needs to be the primary ball handler, which for the Bulls right now, he's in a situation where that will be his role. Now, what's the ceiling on a team if Josh Giddy is your primary ball handler? I do think there's a ceiling there. However, all of these things, it's not like this is something that's just been discovered over the last year, the last, you know, six months. Like, this was, you didn't know any of any of this stuff before you traded Alex Cruz was straight up in a deal where the, reaction from anybody who knew anything about the NBA, said, hold on, they didn't get any

picks in that deal. The Bulls got no picks, seriously? So if you valued him so much that you traded Alex Caruso straight up for him, how are you going to tell him you don't value him that much during contract negotiations? Well, I mean, there's valuing him and there's giving him exactly of what he wants. And I suspect, again, here, I would be surprised if there isn't a deal that struck at some point between Giddy and the Bulls. I just, you know, the question I think is, is it going to be something in the $20 to $25 million range per? Or is it going to be something, you know, well north of that? I mean, I mean, I mean, and that, and that, what I hear, that's kind of the difference in the discussions right now. And look, I, Josh Giddy is a talented player.

I wouldn't want to sign him to either deal because to your point, you're sort of signed yourself up to be a 35 and 4017. If you have him as your main engineer offense, which is right about where the Bulls were last year and probably will be going forward if they have him doing that. But he is a talented player. If you do believe in him continuing to grow and improve, like somewhere in the $20, $25 million range,

is probably a reasonable deal for everybody. Again, I would assume that gets done at some point in that he doesn't sign the qualifying offer. But to Brian's initial point, Josh Giddy has put up a lot of numbers. And, you know, I think there's a belief that he's got a chance to be a high level player. And so I could see him saying, well, I was a six pick in the draft. I've made a decent amount of money. I get another $11 million. There's a lot of cast space next summer. I'll take my chances. Like that one I think, I think there's at least more plausibility to that than the Grimes one. But I would still be pretty surprised if he didn't eventually. Yeah, because he's even if it's the numbers the Bulls are putting out there, it's nearing a hundred million total value.

It's at least in the upper. Yeah. And he's a young, again, he's sort of the same thing as Grimes. Like if you're a young guy like that, get 80, 90, 100 million dollars. is guaranteed in your pocket and then be a free agent again at 26 or 27 and then go try to get another one like I wish I could tell you I knew what the Bull's plan was I do not they have they have plan has been to be the 10 seed for years and for a place in three team trades yeah are in this position to have a lot of cap space in 26 because

Nicolas Vuceovich, Zach Collins, Kevin Herder are all in the last year of their contracts. I assume they want to keep Kobe White. It's not likely he gets extended because his number is so low, but he's on the last year of his contract if they wanted to...

Just so fans know what you were saying. He's currently making $12.8 million this year. He's had a really good couple of years. He's outplayed his deal. And under the rules of the current CBA, you can only bump a guy up a certain amount of money. so it's unlikely the Bulls, you know, they could probably offer them somewhere around like three for 60, maybe a little bit higher than that.

And I don't think that would be enough to get Kobe extended. Yeah. The Bulls would right now, I mean, they did sign Trey Jones to be a backup point guard for them. They gave them two years guaranteed. They're in position to have $60 plus million in cap space next year. If that's what they want to do. And if they want to keep that flexibility, because they know they're not going to be able to extend Kobe White anyway, they could just squeeze Giddy into the qualifying offer. And then they could just really have a bunch of space.

Because if they sign Giddy, you know, it really, it's lowments. Now, what are they going to do with that space? That's another question. And that also depends on the number, too. I mean, if he signs for a deal starting at like 21, it costs them $10 million of space in theory. So like, you know, we'll see. All right. So then you've got Jonathan Cominga.

This one's a tough one because obviously he is butted heads repeatedly with Steve Kerr. And the idea that they're going to be able to go through a season together, no matter what the situation is in Bihungi Dori, I would think is a hard belief. At the same time, the Warriors have made it clear that they value him as an asset. And they are simply just not going to give him away. If you come to them with a sign and trade offer, as I think they've had a lot of, little bit of interest in, including from the Kings. They are not going to just do it to send them away.

They're going to want something to really help them. And I think they would like if, I would think, I think in the opposite of the bulls, where I'm suspecting that there wouldn't, it wouldn't, you know, there'd be some interest in the qualifying offer from them. By the way, Cummings is around $8 million, his qualifier. I think the warriors would prefer, as long as it wasn't crushing him on the tax, I think the warriors would prefer to get Cumminga into a contract that they could move, similar to what they did a few years ago with DeAngelo Russell.

Well, I wouldn't even say it's that. I mean, that was a little different because of the Durant deal. I think the obvious analog in this is the guy McMahon brought up earlier, as Jaylon Green. And I don't think that Coming is getting the same amount of money as Jaylen Green for a variety of reasons. The Warriors are going to need to avoid the second apron. We all expect them at some point to get Al Horford signed. So, you know, there's somewhere in the low 20s is probably the limit of what they could really

realistically go to this year and get him signed using tax payment level exception with hard cat them into the second apron but yeah they they would like to have him I'm sure under contract so to your point as you said earlier correctly if you sign the qualifying offer all of a sudden you can't be traded the whole point of having coming around this year would be to turn him into something I mean I think there is still some belief of the warrior so he could still become a guy that fits there but I but not from the coach no no no no no I agree I mean I mean I mean I mean, what I'm saying is I think everybody agrees that would probably be the thing that makes the most sense. But again, the problem is you're in a market where there's not a lot of caps base.

There's not a lot of teams that are banging down the door to get them. And so it probably makes sense for everybody to do a shorter term deal of some kind. Again, a two or three year, like the Jalen Green deal, a two or three year deal, probably a three year deal at somewhere in the 20s and get him a bunch of money. and he's still a young guy. He'd get back out to free agency early. And, you know, they would be motivated to put him in good positions to succeed this year and get him a chance to showcase himself some. And I think that situation could work out pretty well for everybody because, look, if there

was a good sign and trade available, to your point, Brian, too wouldn't be on the Warriors right now. We wouldn't be talking about it, right? Like if there was somebody out there saying, we got to get Jonathan Cominga, this would probably be done already. But there isn't. So at some point, you think it makes sense for everybody to come together and find some number that's palatable and try this again in January and February. Well, maybe something materializes with the Kings or another team, but I definitely think the most likely scenario is this thing plays out similar to what you're talking about. And the Jalen Green contract was a three-year deal, the third year being a player option. You know, that kind of a short-term deal that is designed to be traded.

As much as the Rockets deny that that deal is designed to be traded, what happened? It was traded, right? Now, I think with Cominga, though, it would be designed to be traded December 15th, like as soon as he's eligible. And because here's the thing, Steve Kerr has made it crystal clear. were like, this ain't reading between the lines. It's not sources said. This is Steve Kerr repeatedly on the record saying, Cominga does not fit with Steph and Jimmy.

And if you didn't believe what he said, the guy was DMPCD in the playoffs several times. But if you're going to do that kind of a deal and basically you're trying to flip them as quickly as possible for value, you've got to play them for the first couple months of the season. You've got to, you don't have to put them in the starting lineup, but you've got to put them in the rotation. You've got to put them in a situation to be showcased. But I think that's probably, it's not the ideal scenario for anybody, for comminga, for Kerr, for the Warriors.

But I do think it's the best case realistic scenario, the way that there just has not been a market that's materialized. for him, given the circumstances of restricted free agency and the lack of cap space. Ramona Shelburne and I wrote a story on the Lakers that came out the end of last week. Really, it discussed the limbo that the Lakers are in right now as they navigate moving from a LeBron James-centric-centric team to a Luca Donchich-centric team. And the story generated quite a bit of reaction. And I would just want to say that the... thrust of this situation that Lakers are in is not really controversial. It's uncomfortable,

okay? Because it's not controversial for an organization to look at a 40-year-old superstar and a 27-year-old superstar and say, we need to lean into the 27-year-old. It's not controversial, you know. 26. 26. Well, 2027 next season. Yeah, 26. I guess if I'm going to call them 27, I should call the Brown 41. It's not controversial necessarily if both players are in the position where they've got one year left on their contract that you would prioritize getting the 26-year-old into that new contract as opposed to extending the 41-year-old. That is, you know, in a vacuum, those are not controversial things that the Lakers have done.

But as I said, it is uncomfortable. And it is certainly uncomfortable for LeBron, who has never been in this situation before and didn't see it coming. Going back to February. Right. And so while, you know, and like, by the way, like, I'm not sure that even no matter what LeBron produces this year, that extending him at the max for close to $60 million next year, having a 41 turning 42 year old is a good usage of money. Like, I don't think that's controversial. I'm not saying that he would have incredible money. usage of money for a lot of teams, but this goes back to the fundamental problem the Lakers have

had for a long time, which is that they just aren't a very good team outside of their top couple of players. And they need to fully re-overhaul the roster, which is the same situation they've been in, frankly, since the moment they made the Russell Westbrook trade. They've never really gotten out of this situation where they have, they had AD and LeBron and not enough help for years. And now they have Luebvreau. Luca and LeBron and not enough help. And it's hard from the situation they're in with no draft picks and no real flexibility to add around Luca and LeBron without subtracting some money and figuring out a way to reshuffle

the roster. And there's just not a, like for a lot of teams, yes, resigning a top 10 or 15 player in the league to the max, even if it's for one year, would be a good idea. But they're not a lot of teams. And I think, yeah, here's one more thing. I'm sorry, McMahon. I think the Lakers contributed to the discomfort by not bringing LeBron in on the Luca trade. And I understand why they did it, but I'm just saying it contributed to the discomfort.

And LeBron contributed to the discomfort when instead of just picking up his option and saying, all right, I'm going year to year. We'll see you in September. Rich Paul made these statements that are very open. left open to interpretation and just made it clear that he wasn't necessarily thrilled about the direction of the Lakers. So both sides have contributed, and there's been a bunch of little minor things, but both sides have contributed to a bit of a frost developing there. But I don't think it's a situation where the Lakers are like looking to get rid of him or do I think

LeBron is looking to get out of there. I just think they're in this uncomfortable situation. I'm sorry, McMahon. Go ahead. No, and you're obviously closer to this than neither bond temps or I. And, you know, the reporting on that, everybody should read that story. But LeBron, at this point, wants this to be an uncomfortable situation. In fact, the whole point of Rich Paul's statement coming right after he opts into the last year of his contract is to create discomfort. Now, what exactly the endgame is? Like, those guys are extremely intelligent people who understand the way that NBA business works

and understand just how difficult any kind of a trade that would make sense for all three parties, the two teams and LeBron would be to pull off. You know, the idea of LeBron getting a buyout from the Lakers at a number of $52.6 million is, I don't know, man, like, stranger things have happened, I guess. I just be clear. I mean, I don't think, I mean, the reason people are thinking about a buyout is because LeBron, trading LeBron is very challenging. And it was like, wait a minute, if he's not uncomfortable or if he's not comfortable with their direction, what's his other alternative? There's only to get off of a team, there's only two alternatives. You can be released. You can be

traded. And so I think part of it is a vacuum. There's a vacuum. And people are stepping into the vacuum. So that, yeah. Well, the vacuum that LeBron via Rich Paul has. created and LeBron when given a chance to clarify the situation. And the Lakers have created because, again, I have been waiting for Jeannie Buss or Mark Walter or Rob Polenko or J.J. Reddick or somebody, anybody to say, we're thrilled LeBron has opted in and we'll see you in September. Anybody. Can I don't need this statement, the team statement, but I'd like somebody at some point to say, this is great. Let's see you in the fall. So far,

Rich Paul isn't saying it. LeBron isn't saying it. J.J. Reddick isn't saying it. Rod Polinka isn't saying it. Genie Bustin. So that's why we have to keep doing this. And this weekend. Nobody has said it.

And this weekend, LeBron, came to a Lakers' summer league game. Dave McManneman went over and asked him if he wanted to talk about anything in the wake of Rich's comments. And he said basically no comment. I ain't got nothing to talk about. And then went on the radio and did another non-sequitur statement. I mean, it's just everybody's doing the same. everybody's doing the same thing over and over again. Yeah, Rich said he had no interest in clarifying anything.

And the Lakers have been, as you said, completely mum. But here's the thing. LeBron throughout the course of his career has always been able to apply pressure on the franchises that he played for because he always had the threat of his departure. right? LeBron has always had the ultimate power. He's always had all the leverage. And now LeBron doesn't have the power and the leverage because the threat of his departure next summer is not really a threat to the Lakers because it certainly appears that it's part of the plan for the Lakers. So LeBron's ability to apply pressure to go all in on this season, like he's done throughout the course. say his career is non-existent at this point.

I would still also like to know what the grand plan is to build a contending team around Luca. Well, that's what Ramon and I wrote about. You know, Rob Polinka presented him with some plan at their exit meeting. And I don't know for sure what was in it. I just know that Rob went in with a binder and Luca left with literature. So he presented him something. And obviously it'll be more formal.

Well, that when ever... Some are reading Loubiata, I guess. Yeah. Well, you know, and then, and, you know, Luca, to his credit, certainly appears to be doing his part in terms of accepting JJ Riddick's challenge of getting his butt in shape. He's definitely a lot slimmer.

He's definitely getting that revenge bod going. I love the revenge bod. You should trademark that. Like I said, that's an IT department phrase. Now, you know, she's doing just fine. She didn't need to get revenge on me. She's, you know, whenever things. things, everything's great, just to be clear, including the body.

But, uh, but Rob Polinkas got to roll up the sleeves on that cool leather jacket and get to work, man. And, you know, when you were, he's got, I think Polinka wisely is, it's a long, patient approach because he can't, you can't microwave this thing. They're not, you can't just snap his fingers and create a championship team this year. When, when you were talking crazy stuff about underwear and stuff at the live show, other day and Bont Temps was slamming his head into the microphone. He hit his head with the microphone so many times he left a red mark on his head. Good. You damaged him with your... I'm glad. Yeah.

He's been damaging my brain for a long time. So what else is no? Okay, a couple things before we go. Number one, congratulations to Kobe Altman in his front office with the Cavs Caves Cairns Corner. He just got a contract extension. In a move that, in a new move that I did not see coming. Fred Van Vleet, who was not on the executive committee of the Players Association. Typically, when you see a new president, I've seen a handful in my time. T.J. McCollum's term ended. Fred Van Vleet of the Rockets, now the new president of the Players Association. So be the guy helming the next CBA negotiations.

Helming, good verb. Good verb. Also, podcast announcement. We are now, we are officially in the off-season pod mode. So we're going to, we are, as, as, as Bontemps is, you know, flying across in the Atlantic and doing pods at all hours of the day with no sleep, we are going to get down to two a week starting, starting now. Yes. It will come out, Tuesdays and Fridays. Barring, barring the need for extras at some point.

I mean, emergency pods as, as necessary. Sure. Circumstances arise. Yeah, for sure. Hopefully, they don't. Hopefully they don't. Thank you to our man Jackson, who was helming the operation in Vegas the other night. Jackson got himself on stage the other day.

I was going to say, man, he's got a little stage presence. He's got Zoom fright. He doesn't have stage fright. That's right. He was good. All right. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to McMahon.

Thank you to Bon Temes from Portugal. Thank you for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We will talk to you later this week. Adios amigos.