Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Reacting To ESPN’s NBA Future Power Rankings

Episode Date: September 18, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim MacMahon and Bobby Marks to break down ESPN’s NBA Future Power Rankings including the some teams who were surprisingly high and some who had substantial drop-off from last season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Discover coffee plus on nispresso.com. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday afternoon here in Los Angeles, joining me from just down the road at our new Hollywood Park Studios, not Englewood, Bobby. Hollywood Park is Bobby Marks. Gentlemen, how we doing? Just taking advantage of the last day here of the perks of this fine studio offices, heated toilet seats, you name it.

We got it. Yeah, the toilet seats, they're. Toto toilets, like the NFL lives well. I'm learning at their offices. And when you walk in, they, they see you coming. They see it comes in point. I almost drop my phone in there. Join us from Dallas, Texas. This is Van McMan. Howdy, partners? Wendy, I guess I'm going to be seen a lot of you coming up here soon. We have an announcement. It's actually announced by front office sports. How did they learn of this? You leaked it.

Yeah, I mean, there was an interview with me in it. I think it's quite clear what happened. But, yeah, so against probably my better judgment and assuring the Jackson is going to be driven to an asylum. Bobby McMahon Jackson and I are going on a little trip here. Where are we going? Where are you guys going? I don't think you want to come with us. It would be a great trip.

We waited until Bon Tim's left and put this together. Yes, it was exactly, that was exactly accurate. That was a true statement. So we're going to do something that I hope is pretty special. We're going to go, we're going to take the Hoop Collective on a world tour coming up here in the first week of October. We're going to go to Melbourne, Australia, and have a podcast live event on Friday, October 2nd at Courtside, Melbourne, which is an awesome venue in Melbourne. It's like a basketball culture hub, I think they said, Jackson. And then the three of us are then going to go on Monday, October 5th, and have an event in Manila Philippines. We know we have so many Filipino fans who are supporters of the podcast and have listened for years.

I had a great experience there when I was there three years ago. And I said, I've got to try to come back and do a podcast event. And so that's what we're going to do. And then we're going to head over and meet up with the Mavericks and Rockets in Macau. They've got two preseason games. This is the McMahon wing of the journey, Bobby. I-35 wing of the journey. McMahon will join the two teams he knows well.

The Mavericks and Rockets, two of the teams he knows well. The Mavericks and Rockets. Houston's not on I-35, but other than that, okay. I know. I know. You're right. Sorry. I didn't mean to screw a Texas geography.

It's part of the I-35 corridor. Can we say that? No, it's in Texas. It's off I-45. I-45 connects you some of Dallas. I know. I-10, I know. The Las Vegas Sands Group, which is basically the host of the games, you know, they're in Macau at the Venetian Arena. And it's kind of, I talked to you before about this being like a glimpse into what they're trying to do here in Dallas with a resort attached to the arena. The Las Vegas Sands Group is helping us put this together, at least the Macau part of the trip. They're going to host us. And we're very appreciative and look forward to having some really good guests, have some great experiences.

We're going to see a NBL game in Australia, the Melbourne United versus the Cairns-Taypans. McMahon's going to be on the post-game show, Bobby. I can't wait for that. First I'm hearing of that, but I look forward to. Yeah, I've committed you to many things. You don't even know about. I'm ready. Howdy, mates.

Yeah. There you go. Jackson and I have been on many Zoom calls with 12-hour time differences, Bobby, in the last few weeks. So Jackson's coming with us. McMahon's flying coach. That is not true. But, yeah, so what we're going to do Media Day, McMahon's going to be in Oklahoma City for Media Day. I'm going to be here in Los Angeles for the Lakers, which is something I'd never thought.

to go over to clips? No? I would love to go to the... I don't know if the clips would like to see me. I don't think the clips are too. Look, the clips have their own thing. Here's my comment for the clips real quick, because this is aside. We're moving forward because you don't want to talk to me about what's in the river. We're going to move forward.

We're going to stop. We're going to stop trying to turn around and kick the ball into our own neck on a daily basis. Let's stop doing that and let's move forward. Okay. Yeah, so I'm going to do... be here in L.A. and we're going to rendezvous on the West Coast, Bobby, and Jackson's going to make his way out here, and

we're going to head down to Australia in a couple of weeks, or whatever it is, a week from Sunday, a week from, whatever it is, week from Tuesday, I don't know. Something like that. Yeah. And so looking forward to seeing the Rockets and Mavericks play. A couple of games.

Looking forward to speaking to a lot of members of their organization. Their organizations, looking forward to seeing the Venetian in Macau in the Venetian arena, one of the best arenas in Asia, and we'll check that out. And yeah, looking forward to, you know, a lot of, I'm actually, Bobby, I'm looking forward to showing Jackson and McMahon, Manila. I can't wait to get McMahon. You're going to be like rock stars, rolling. Jackson's going to be like,

he'll be like a rock star walking through there. Yeah, they know Jackson in Manila. They do. I loved my time in the Philippines. I really did. Do they have chicken parm in Manila? Of course. Okay. They got more chicken farm in Manila than they got in Italy. I'm more of an adventurous eater than Wendy is. He's very, like he's got, you know, his very basics. And so I'm curious to see how that works.

I've spent months of my life in Asia, sir. And yes, I am a picky eater, but I've spent months of my life in Asia. I will be just fine. I am not worried whatsoever. You are worldwide, Wendy. You're right. Absolutely. And don't you forget it.

So, but, you know, so anyway, Hey, you'll have more from, I want in the YouTube comments. I want, like,

I always enjoy, we, I ask for this every once in a while. I want people who are from outside the U.S. if you're watching, let us know where you're watching from. I enjoy getting a feel for the international flavor of our audience. Because,

look, we would love to have this, or I would, I'll speak for myself here. Jackson, I'm speaking for you to. Wendy. I don't care what you think.

We would love for this to be the first of many of these type of tours. Yeah. By the way, McMahon, we have the data tracking ability. We can see where people are watching us from. I like to interact with the audience. Okay. All right. Data, data, data.

All right. Well, we have a great audience in the Philippines. So we'll appreciate that. We'll have some more information about tickets if they're even going to be available. In some cases, they may not be available. And honestly, they may already be caught. but we look forward to we look forward to this and we thank you for your support and God knows what's going to come out of this.

And Bobby, if you're open to it, maybe next year. Hey, empty nester, man. I'll be an empty nester. Oh, that's right. You won't have a high school football season to dominate your. Hey, I'm trying to get my son to reclassify. I'll be having a get a fifth year. He's playing so well.

Why not? It's a new rage. That's right. Don't kidding. If not, I'll just sue. There you go. You don't have to get to court. They usually get it done.

Just venue hunt. Just get the great judge and you'll be fine. More information on that. Keep an eye on the socials and whatnot. And yeah, I look forward to the Hoop Collective World Tour 26. I can't wait to deploy our logo. We have many rounds of design on a logo and a poster.

And most of the fighting has been how big McMahon's name is going to be. I think McMahon's name should be pushed off to the side. And McMahon's like... Yeah, like the credits, like the credits, right? Like in the little front center large font. That's what we're looking for here. Negotiations are ongoing on that front. Okay.

So every year in September, this is one of Bobby's favorite things that he does. We do something at ESPN called the Future Power Rankings, where we, I say we, I don't have anything to do with it. Bobby only has part to do with it. So don't blame Bobby, okay? Bon Temps has been ejected from this. It used to be Bon Temps. He's ejected. And Pelton.

And Pelton. That's right. But we have new eyes. We have new analysts this year. Yeah. Can I read the crew? Please. Ben Oliver, Zach Cramm, and Dean Oliver.

It rhymes. Right. And Bobby Marks. Well, with the mainstay. Right. So, and there are, just as a reminder, a couple of things about this. Because people are going to have their backup. They always do on this.

Some of this stuff ends up looking really good. Some of it doesn't. But it's a look at the next three years. It's ranking teams based on how we think they're going to perform under the next three years. And it's not just Ben and Zach and Bobby and Dean getting together and like agreeing, oh, such and such team is 30th. They rank these teams through five categories. I hate going through all this,

but there's five categories, Bobby, and those five categories are. Players, which actually ranks the highest. What we do is we go zero to 100, so certainly you get 100 if you can get 100. But players have, it's basically worth 60% of it. So if you've got a pretty good roster intact for the next three years,

you're going to score pretty well. Players, market, draft, finances, and then management, which consists of, the ownership group, coaching, front office, all intact. Those are the other, the non-players are roughly 10% worth the score. And we, the four of us come up with, we individually rank, and then they put it into the pot. And then it spits out the kind of where these teams fall.

As you guys know, I love, I love lists. I love rankings. Yes, yes, you love it. I'd rather sit in a sandbox and play with my toys by myself. but for this, I am a team player. And as you will talk about, the top two, I think, were unanimous. You can debate who is who. But then there's some decisions or discussions to be had.

All right, let's just start there because it's not controversial. Number one, Oklahoma City Thunder. I believe we're number one last year as well. And they ranked number one in players, number one in management, and number four in draft because they've got all those draft picks from the other teams coming up. And so that's not really that controversial. You know, they have shed some players this offseason, Aaron Wiggins, so that they can create room.

Isaiah Joe. Isaiah Joe. So that they can create room to pay guys like Kaysen Wallace and be able to keep Shay, Giltos, Alexander, Chet Holmgren, Jalen Williams together, along with like Alibald. Caruso, and they did resign Isaiah Hartenstein. So I don't think we need to spend much time there. I think that's, you know. AJ Mitchell is going to get paid soon, and I'm sure O.C.

would like it to be there. Right. And so we'll see. They have two first-round picks in this draft. We'll see how those guys look this year. Number two, San Antonio Spurs. They rank second in players, fifth in management, ninth in draft. And, you know, a large part of their outlook.

is tied to their three young stars, which is Victor Wenbanyama, Dylan Harper, and Stefan Castle. It's interesting, Bobby, they're a little bit, they rank 20, you know, the Thunder ranked 29th in money,

and the reason you say is not because they're broke, but because they've got so much money committed to those top three. San Antonio, this is where their, quote-unquote, weakest is money as well, even though they haven't spent a lot yet,

They have two guys on Maxes already, which are Victor Wambayama, although he took less, he's taking less than he could have. And Darren Fox. And then they obviously have to pay Castle and others coming forward. So, but I don't think that's too controversial. Where I think we will get into discussions is number three, is number three, McMahon. This one is, you know, they have the Boston Celtics, his third, fresh off of. a widely pan trade where they gave up an all-MBA player in his prime in Jalen Brown. And management number two, which, listen, Brad Stevens is, you know, you hear Brad Stevens,

Sam Presti, those are, I would say, the consensus is those are the top two lead basketball executives in the NBA. Despite the fact that, again, Brad Stevens got ripped by a lot of people for the, the J. Them Brown trade that they executed. They're also very high on Players 5, which I find out to be interesting, and mark at 6, and then they are upper middle of the pack and money at 12 and right in the middle of the pack and the draft at 15. Players 5, that is an interesting one.

We're looking at this right now as the fifth best roster in the NBA. I think that's subject for debate right there. I agree. I mean, listen, when I went back and looked at my, when I voted, I think I had them ninth or tenth in players. And I looked back on where we had them. A year ago, we had them, I think 13th overall, I want to say. And that was after trading Porzingis and Holiday.

And Tatum was out for the year, certainly with the Achilles. This year, they traded a top 10, top 15 player. We've placed them with a player in Paul George who, let's face it, you know, you traded a max for a max and who hasn't been able to stay on the court. You did get better with your draft picks and everything like that. And you had a, let's face it, like Tatum's a wild card going through a full year now with the Achilles. Derek White did not play well, shooting a ball in the playoffs here. He's a year older here.

So yeah, I think there's an honest conversation as far as for the first. future, is that the third best team? Yeah, I mean, okay, so I think management, does that include coaching? Yes. Okay. So this is one of the things I will say. I believe that Celtics will have a good year this year. We're going to have to, I think we're going to have to retrofit what we think is a good year

because I think there's going to be fewer wins for teams across the board. So Celtics might win fewer games than they did last year, but still have a very good year. I just think Joe Missoula is going to be obsessed and the team is going to be obsessed with proving everybody wrong. And I think they're going to have a very good regular season. Now, whether or not they are going to be better as a playoff team, having lost Jalen Brown and swapping him out for Paul George, that I think is a different conversation. But I would not be surprised if the Celtics end up with the top five. six record this season. So I am actually, you know, look, and I, that's, that's depending on health for Jason Tatum and, you know, reasonable health for Paul George. How am I going to know how many games

Paul George is going to play? I mean, I don't know. But, you know, I think this is, this is too high. I think we all can agree this is too high. But it may not be ridiculous, you know, because you're basically saying the coach and the organization has a track record of getting it right and you're betting on them getting it right. Yeah, they're a regular season wins machine. The system, you know, there still is a lot of talent there. I would just say the talent has been significantly diminished over the last, what are we talking about now, three transaction cycles. And Bobby, you mentioned this as far as the big question about this roster over this three, your window that you're looking at, and that's okay, you traded Jatham Brown for a placeholder

and picks. Paul George, in terms of their roster build, is a placeholder. You're not trading them this year because it's still a god-awful contract. I mean, it's one of the worst contracts in the league until next summer when it is a $50-whatever-million-dollar expiring deal, and then you can use it as a chip in trade talks just to make money work. So what are they able to do with Paul George plus picks a year from now or a year and a half from now as you get into that next trade deadline? It's kind of hard to rank them third based on that way. I agree.

No, I think they're way overrated. Bobby, Peyton Pritchard is eligible for a contract extension starting in two weeks. October 1st, 1st, 3 for 607. 68 somewhere around there. That's the most he can sign for, 3 and 67. He has two years at $8 million a year left, which is awesome value. If I'm advising Peyton Pritchard, I'm not signing that extension. I'm waiting. Maybe he will. I got to do jumping jacks here because the lights went out. Oh. There you go. Tim and I had that this morning on when we were doing Get Up. The lights just went out in here. Are you serious? It's like century related or something. I don't know.

on the toilet. They go all kinds of like for me. Maybe that'll be a next pod. More hoop collective podcast after this. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range

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Conditions apply. Visit Scotiabank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank, you're richer than you think. Okay, so fourth is the Houston Rockets. I still think that's high too. Well, this is interesting because they don't rank top five in any category. They've got them six in draft, which they have done an outstanding job of collecting draft assets when they started off at a deficit because of the Russ CP3 deal. eighth market, ninth players,

and then 13th in both management and money. But yeah, for a team that has yet to be out of the first round and, you know, since the rebuild, that has relying so heavily on Kevin Duran, as he, I believe, what is he, 38 now or turns 38, you know, that's pretty rich. Well, they're relying a lot on Fred Van Villeat, right? I mean, I think that's...

They're still relying on him. They're still... After having so many problems at point guard last year, they did not, in my view, truly get depth at that position. They are hoping that Fred Van Vleet is the solution to a lot of those problems. Well, I think he will, but they should protect themselves, don't you think? Well, their protection is what they hope is the continued development of Reed Shepard in particular, and then a men Thompson as a primary initiator.

Well, their actions indicate that is exactly what they plan. That's the plan. Yeah. So look, I think the rockets are primed to make a trade. I don't not know if that trade will happen this season or if it will happen a year from now. But they have a lot of young guys. And, you know, look, they were in. They've been in on some stuff.

So let's just see. One guy that was never going to be traded was Amman Thompson, and now he's got a $208 million deal. And this is a big, big, big year for our parent in Shungoon. Last year was not a step forward for him. You know, Raffel Stone recently returned from a trip to Turkey, you know, so they're like pouring into them doing everything they can. But if this isn't a step forward season,

I think there's going to be questions about whether Shungun has a long runway with the rockets or not. Shingun has a very, has a, as a good contract. We talk about whether, you know, not every team maybe would be interested in him because of his defensive challenges, but that's a guy who I think has value. So just keep that in the back of your mind.

If we were a Knicks fan, by the way, last year, the Rockets were second. And, you know, in this future power ranking. I think that came out before Fred tore his ACL. Of course it did. Of course it did. What I'm saying, though, is that, like, I would not have regarded last year as a step forward for Houston. And, you know, they're still fourth.

So with different voters, just for the record, for the large part, except for Bobby. All this was his. Nobody contributed it. This is all about Justin. If you're a Knicks fan, you're screaming, excuse me, where are the champions? Where are the champions? The Knicks went from third last year to fourth this year and won a championship. in between. Fifth. Fifth. I'm sorry, third to fifth. Third to fifth. With a championship in between.

Boy, that championship was a step back from the next. Listen, this is an incredible compliment to Mitchell Robinson, because clearly losing him. I will say this. I was just talking with an executive the other day. Mitchell Robinson is, this is going to be a very interesting season because the Celtics really think Mitchell Robinson is a valuable player. really prioritized getting him in the offseason and prioritized getting him off the court when they played in the playoffs two years ago. And they obviously love what the analytics say about Mitchell Robinson, and they didn't love what the analytics said about Jalen Brown.

Not to say one is better than the other, just to be clear, but it sort of puts what they value, it sort of really puts what they value out there. And look, their track record has been really good. So we'll see. All right. The Knicks at five. Now, players rank third, management

ranks fourth, market ranks second. Obviously, all great. They don't have much draft capital at all because they're still paying off how they got Carl Towns and McHale Bridges. The money is 27, Bobby. And so this is really, the Carl Anthony Towns thing is interesting.

So Carl Towns has been eligible sign extension for two and a half months. There has been nothing really said out there a lot. Carl has given a couple of interviews this off season. He has not said anything about it. This will obviously come up at Media Day in a week and a half here. He can be a free agent after this season. Maybe the Knicks don't believe he'll become a free agent. Maybe they don't believe he'll opt out of what's the option here, Bobby? 61. 60-61.

Maybe the Knicks don't feel that pressure because maybe they don't think they'll do it. Or he'll out of that. But he can be a free agent. And like, let's be honest, if Carl Towns was an unrestricted free agent, he would have offers like that. He can't be your, he's not going to be your number one, but this, and by the way, he just had an awesome performance in the playoffs. He's proven that he can be a major piece of a championship team. Like, say whatever you want. He's proven that. Yes. So, Bobby, I think a four-year max extension is in the neighborhood of $275-ish million. Yep, correct. It's an enormous number. Obviously, if the Knicks felt that way, they would offer them that. He'd assigned it already.

So the discussions that they've had very clearly not implied that. And whatever, you know, I don't want to use the word offer too liberally here because that triggers people. but whatever they've discussed hasn't advanced it with Carl to this point. So the ball will be in Carl's court to see what he wants to do with this publicly. But if they sign Carl to, you know, Jim Dolan is on the record as saying he's not going to the second apron. Now, it's not a court of law. He can change his mind. But Bobby, if the Knicks stick to the Jim Dolan edict of no second apron and they've gone up to the line

three years in a row and not crossed it, if they stick to that and they sign Carl Towns to an extension that's in the neighborhood of that $60 million a year that he's what we would get next year anyway, they're not going to be able to keep this team together. No, they're not.

They're going to be a second apron team next year, and that doesn't even include Deuce McBride, who's a free agent. They'll still have some of their debt, I think Landry, Shammat signed a three or four year contract here. But no, the reality is It's just the numbers, you know, I think there will be like $12, $13 million over the second apron if he comes in at that $61 million number. So that affects this future power ranking. Not that, you know, I mean, they're a very good team. They got a lot going for them. But, and look, I don't, every championship team has the challenge of keeping their team together. You know, the, the, the, um, the thunder are losing some digits. You know, it just, it's, it's the nature of it. This is what happens. But the Carl Towns extension is a, is a, is a, is a,

is a huge moment for this particular Nix Corps being able to stay together. But look, they're going to be together this year. That's one thing they really got going for. Well, you've got the CAD extension, and then in the not too distant future, you're going to have the Brunson extension, which Brunson did him a huge favor. He got what was his max at the time, but by taking his max at the time, he gave them a discount.

It's, you know, he gave them a significant discount. I don't know if he's going to be in the business of giving repeated discounts, especially after being a finals MVP for a team that ended a 53-year championship drought. But like you said, Dolan is on the record, wasn't asked about it, wanted to be on the record about how firm he is about the second apron, absolutely positively not being an option. Whereas in Oklahoma City, you know, Clay Bennett's not a guy who goes on the record, but you do have Sam Presti making it clear that, hey, we did these financially motivated roster cuts now to set us up to spend in the near future.

And so the second apron not being that roadblock for the thunder. Yeah, that's a really good point. Okay, six and seven are, and you're going to are going to be talkers here. Okay. six is the Detroit Pistons. And the interesting thing about this and this sort of goes some methodology, one of the reasons why Bobby I think dreads this every year

is that... There are storm clouds out to sea. My co-worker sees sunny skies. I see storm clouds. Well, in the rankings, the Pistons rank 12th in players, 15th in management, 12th in their draft assets,

seventh in money for the moment, because they haven't done the Jalen Duren deal yet and 24th in market. That's not that, I see no sixes are in there or fours or fives, and yet they finish six. I'll spend the Russian judge. And listen, this Jalen Dern thing, we've talked about it a lot.

There's nothing really has happened. I think we talked about a couple weeks ago, nothing has happened since then. There's the October 1 deadline. If he makes the unprecedented decision to play for the qualifying offer, which has never happened for a guy of this status and for a guy who would be leaving this kind of money on the table, that is an absolute disaster from Detroit because the only way you take that is to leave.

Let's take it to the next step there. Let's just be honest. The Pistons cannot allow him to sign for the qualifying offer. Okay. If he signs for the qualifying offer, he's gone. He's gone. And not only that, you now are going to have a player who's playing on the qualifying offer and is going to make decisions

based on that. Yeah, every time there's a bumper or a bruise, he's going to err on the side of caution. You really, you don't even get him this year. You get a shell of him this year. Right. And so he knows that and his agents know that. And the max is a huge number for him, obviously.

That's not even in the conversation because the max is 30%. Right. He's not going to get that because... He's trying to get 200 plus mill, not 287. His leverage is that another team is going to offer him the max next year. Maybe the Sacramento Kings, if they're still in position, for example, who he met with during the summer. But it could be another team, by the way, too. or Sacramento could acquire a different center between now and then.

But you don't find players like this with this size in their 20s. This is why the Lakers paid so much for Walker Kessler. You can debate about whether or not that trade was worth it. But the reason Walker Kessler was able to drive that value is you just can't get your hands on players like this in their early 20s. It's just hard. In the Pistons defense, Dern is trying to. to get, forget the picks. Dern is trying to get eight figures annually more than Kessler is getting paid by the Lakers. Totally agree. I didn't mean to imply that was apples to apples. But obviously the Lakers paid two unprotected first and two swaps to have the right to get Kessler.

And the reason is because it's hard to find big men. I mean, Jock Landale is a number two big man or a third big man on some teams. He signed a $14 million contract with the Hawks this year because it's so hard to find Biggs. Bigs are really in demand right now. So the Pistons know that. And if he signs that qualifying offer, it's a terrible situation for Detroit. And it's a situation that puts everything at risk.

And obviously he'd be leaving money on the table and he would be taking a risk. Like it's not a simple decision. He would have to get a max next summer just to break even based on the offer that's on the table. Assuming avoidance of catastrophic injury and he'll buy insurance and all that stuff, he knows that that's going to be there.

And, you know, Sacramento, for example, can't promise him anything. Yeah. But he knows it's going to be there. I think we all heard. But even if it wasn't, I know everybody in their brother has said Sacramento, even if it wasn't Sacramento,

if he was an unrestricted free agent and he has another good year he's going to get the offer. There will be a market for him that is at or near Max. It's a tough, it's a tough position to be in. The market,

I'll tell you what, the market, the market's better next year, next summer, the more, I know, I know things can change and guys can extend.

Of course. But the market right now is, it's probably the most we've had with teams with room in a, in a while. Bobby, what are we looking at?

Five or six teams with Max money next year? Right now we got eight. Okay, yeah. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function,

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Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. All right. So, Bobby, number seven comes in the Charlotte Hornets. So sweethearts of the draft assets, money. I guess. So. Because let me just say this.

last year they were 23rd in this okay they have this they have their best year in five seven years whatever it is depending on are gonna make the play in um they trade two of their three best players nah two of their two of their four they trade two of their four best players and they go up to seventh bobby because of their draft capital what about their draft capital is making so but he's so excited. Well, they wind up picking up an unprotected first from Phoenix in the Bridges trade. They picked up an unprotected first from Minnesota in the Lamello trade. And you can make the argument. Wait a minute, Bobby, you just said this thing's about for three years.

Those picks are in 32 or 33, right? Like down, I think 33, right? They've got three. The picks are 31 and 33, I believe. They have got the potential to have three first. This next June in an average draft, I would say, projected. to be average draft. It's a Dallas first.

That's top two protected and Miami pick that's top 14 protected. Yeah, they do have a lot of picks going forward. They've got some flexibility. Brandon Miller's extension. Another guy who's extension eligible, that's going to be an interesting one to watch there. So their money could be trending a little bit down. They ranked high and I think they ranked pretty well in management here. But yeah, I mean, seven is high for them for a team that hasn't,

If they were okay, like a team that had just gotten to the first round and made some noise, I think you could justify it a little bit more. But seven's a hard one for me on them. I liked what Charlotte did this summer because they have a very clear direction for their franchise. They accumulated assets. But what they did this summer didn't make them better this year. It was a step back move to try to give them a higher ceiling. If this was a seven-year outlook, which is a ridiculous,

timeline in the NBA, I could see them being seven. Five? I would probably put Utah. I think you can make a better case for, I'm not saying Utah, that should be the high, but I think you can make a better case for Utah at that number than Charlotte. This is way too high. I don't like, are they going to win a playoff series in the next three years? I don't.

I think that's a pretty risky bet to make. My biggest admiration for what they did this year is they did not believe the team that they had was a team that they thought could win at a high level. And so they took two players that had increased their value in Lamello and Miles Bridges, and they sold them. Our analysts believe they sold them well because they've ranked their draft two and money three, even though there's a very good chance Brandon Miller is going to get an extension. I think that they are committed to getting that deal done.

And part of the reason why they got Lamello's money off was to clear out the flexibility to make sure they could pay Brandon and still have a good spot. think seventh is aggressive here because because ultimately this team still needs cornerstone players. They think they have two, but I don't think either of those guys are like first team all NBA and the future type of players and congeniple and Brandon Miller. Well, there was a time when people thought Lamello was that type of player and they don't believe that he is and so they moved on. So we'll see. the 76ers rank eighth and

you know I have no idea how long LeBron's going to be there this is really more of a of a belief in the triumvirate of Maxi you know I also don't know how much Mb is going to play

Bobby I don't know when you vote when you vote on this obviously they finish sixth in players because you know but when you're talking about the next three years like LeBron is this year you know, you can't look past this year. How many games is him being going to play in the next three years?

I have no idea. It's hard to put a crystal ball on them. No kidding. The only short bet is probably Maxie and Edgecombe, right? Those are your two guys who were, and how much better VJ gets. And Jalen is under contract. Yeah, and Jalen for next. Yeah, but listen, you could say like the likelihood is, you know,

he's, Jalen's extension eligible this summer. He's got for one year, the likelihood is that they're not going to extend him by October 19th. And then you could say, wait a minute, what happens next year when he's got two years left? Are they going to extend? Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of ifs. They're like, you know, Philadelphia is like great on paper. Like if I just came from somewhere else and I didn't know what was going on, I looked at the roster, be like, wow, this is really good.

But I think there's a lot of questions as far as where they are. And I would say they're in a better spot than they were probably in April. But there are questions as far as where this is going to go. This is not a two timeline thing. but they kind of, LeBron is this year only. But meanwhile, they have Maxie and- The Bronz this year plus maybe. Right, but they have a core to go forward with too.

Well, that's the thing. They've got two former MVPs on the roster, and LeBron and Embed, and it's the other three starters that are by far the more important players in terms of the franchise's future. Let me say this about Philly, and we'll talk about more

when we get closer to the season, but I am very interested and excited about what Philly's going to be this year. They may win 58 games, which I think will probably get the number one seed. They may win 44 games. I don't know which it's going to be. I'm just going to point something out. They have seven new players.

Okay. They have seven new players. Several of them are the type of players that require a lot of adjustment to in Jalen and LeBron, even though I think both of them have proven that they can play with other star players effectively. just as a reminder, and not that the team is built around LeBron like his other teams were, but just as a reminder,

the Miami Heat in 2010 started out 9 and 8. The Cleveland Cavaliers in 2014 started out 19 and 20. They were under 500 at mid-season. The 2018-19 Lakers missed the playoffs. Okay? What about the 13, 14 nets? Ah.

Well, that's a... 10 and 21 on 10. December 18th. How about that? Yes, and then Garnett got hurt, right? Lopez got hurt. Or Lopez got hurt. Sorry, Lopez got hurt. Yeah, but this is a LeBron thing. This is like when LeBron has arrived, his new teams haven't. It's taken a while. Now, I'm not arguing that 2014 LeBron is the same as 2026 LeBron. Also, there's some dynamics of this team that are different. But just keep that in mind.

as you evaluate what the sixers are going to be, especially out of the gate. And plus, Jalen Brown might be the highest usage player on that team. Like, that's going to be a major adjustment. I mean, Joe Ellen Bede has had everything revolve around him his entire career. Now he's what? Third or fourth in the pecking order? Yeah. Well, Max, he was one of the highest usage players in the league last year.

LeBron had his, I mean, this is not a stunning stat. is not. But LeBron has his lowest usage of his career last year. So my guess is it will be lower again this year. The Atlanta Hawks ranked ninth management seventh. I don't know about that. Well, they were going to be higher until the old USWB came along.

Yeah. I will say that our NBA rank is coming out next week. And I won't give it away, but I was pleased with where Jalen Johnson was regarded in NBA. Rick. Well, that doesn't even factor in the fact that for a star caliber player, he's on one of the best deals in a league. For sure. And not only that, but his contract doesn't go up.

Isn't that a flat contract, Bobby? 30 across the board. So as the cap grows, which the cap, they just got a new projection this last week, Bobby, right? And it was slightly better than before. An extra $2 million will be added to the cap from where it was projected. Yeah. So every year the cap is, you know, projected to go up, what, seven or eight? percent and his contract goes up zero percent.

So his contract gets seven percent, you know, roughly, gets seven percent better every year. And when you're talking about apron stuff, that matters. And, you know, we're ranking eighth in money. That's interesting. As far as playoff caliber teams, I'd have to look. I can't imagine too many playoff caliber teams are ranking higher than the hawks and money. And, you know, I talk about NBA vultures kind of swirling around.

situations ready to pounce. The hawks are vultures. The hawks. Bontemps was hired because nobody's better at sniffing out gloom and doomed than the urine-soaked wet blanket. Bond-Timps is looking for situations for the hawks to pounce because, as you point out here, they're set up to be a cap space team next year. They've got three sizable expiring contracts this year. They do have a decent amount of picks.

and they are hunting for a star to play alongside Jalen Johnson. C.J. McCollum, Lou Doher, Jock Landale, and Buddy Heald have something approaching 40 million in expiring contracts. And they got that pick. They have another pick from New Orleans or Milwaukee if it's not the least favorable if it's 5 to 30. So you get a good pick in there. I know their pick goes to San Antonio from the Jeante-Murie trade, but you can potentially get a lottery pick. probably get a lottery pick again. Right.

Okay. Cavs are 10th. And fourth in players, this is really a player one because they don't rank super high. They rank 28th in draft. They've traded away with trading for Peyton Watson. They've traded away just about everything they're allowed to trade.

I think they've got one swap left. Yes. Yep. They are a team that, and they're, their second apron team last year, they were able to get under the second apron this year. But to do that, they had to give James Harden a three-year guarantee of almost $100 million. I got to say that a lot of stuff happened this summer.

James Harden getting a three-year fully guaranteed deal for $96, $97 million. That, I would not say everybody likes that contract. I thought you were going to say that was the most shocking deal this summer, and I was going to disagree. No, not shocking, but I would say that that contract is not universally adored. Is that two things about the Cavs? One, they had the option to trade Evan Mowgli in a couple of different, you know, they could have offered him for Jalen Brown.

They could have offered him for Janus. And I think there's a decent chance that they could have gotten either of them. They didn't. Their belief in Evan Mowgli is enormous. And they invested hugely in Paden Watson. And they are betting that Payton Watson will be their missing link in their starting lineup, that two-way wing that will elevate them. That is a, again, that is something is up for debate.

But they could have, you know, they could have, they could have pulled the steel here. Not everybody believes that, but they could have pulled the steel. and Kobe Altman's belief in Evan Mobley and going, saying all in isn't accurate, but going heavily in on Peyton Watson are two organizational decisions that will determine this, I believe, will largely determine what this three years going to be. Three years is going to be.

But all in on the roster, and also as you're looking at the Peyton Watson deal, Hardin's deal is directly tied into that Because why did Harden get three guaranteed years? Because he is willing to wait and play ball with the front office to allow them to pull off the Peyton Watson deal. So I think the only wiggle room here is if they feel like their ceiling isn't high enough, I think it's to explore Jared Allen deals in the market. I just don't see other wiggle room given the lack of picks.

I just went on a rant about, not a rant, but I just went on a diatribe about the value. of bigs and Jared Allen would be a reasonably valuable big if they made them available. Of course, they'd have to. That would require to trade them. They would, you know, need to be ready for Evan Moby to play center most of the time. And they haven't clearly been ready to do that. They've done a good job. Kobe's done a good job of like shuffle on the deck, right?

Like when something doesn't work, you go out and get D'Andre Hunter or you go out and get, you flip Hunter for Schroeder and Ellen. Like you've done like a lot of these moves. What happens is that eventually like you just, as you said, like Jared Allen will be like your next trade candidate because you don't have those Max Strues contracts anymore. You still have Sam Merrill. Eventually you might have to pay Jay on Tyson here.

So your next move might have to be one of your, you know, one of your starting five guys in your starting five. All right. So a couple of, we're going to go through a couple of teams that are now outside the top 10. Real quick, the Raptors are 11th, Bobby. they are about to give Kauai Leonard a contract extension that is reportedly worth more than $120 million. I think Jake Fisher reported that.

He just said that's the max. Yeah. I don't expect him. I don't expect him. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I would think, listen, he signed for, what did he do, three for 150 with the clips with a wink, wink, wink. I was horrified when I saw that number. So thank you for clearing.

And I was, I am guilty of aggregate. I just am guilty of bad aggregation there. I want to apologize to all parties involved. No, I think if you're the Raptors, I think you're trying to point to the extension Kevin Durant took from the Rockets last year. There's got to be some negotiation. Which is like, which would be like two in.

Was it two for 90? Yeah, 90-ish right in there. Well, he did give up $7 million. Well, he gave up $700,000 to get out of that greatest plea deal. 700,000 was a lot. lot better than what he would have given up. He had seven million. He waved his trade kicker, right, Bobby? He said he gave us $7 million. So it takes a lot for Kauai to give up money now.

This one thing we've learned in the last year is that Kauai, he's chasing those dollars. Took a lot for Uncle Dennis to give up money. Uncle Dennis ain't part of this anymore. He's not part of us anymore, but I don't think Kawhi was, he may not have been 100% in the light, but he was not 100% in the dark. That's my belief. No question. You can say whatever you want about that. Oh, look at that in my bank account.

I'm that cool. I will say about the Raptors. While I was pleased with where I saw Jalen Johnson's ranking, I felt Scotty Barnes ranking was a little lower than it should have been. I'll just say that because I thought Scotty Barnes was awesome last season. I thought he was awesome in the playoffs. And I think he's one of the best two-way players in the league. And he's got everything but a consistent jumper.

But in terms of like a dominant defense player who's also a hell of an offensive player, there ain't a whole lot better. Putting Kauai, I mean, I have no idea how healthy Kauai is going to be, of course. But putting Kauai next to Barnes could be formidable. The Lakers came in 13th, Bobby, and you guys ranked them 29th in draft. Because after the Kessler trade, they just pretty much, I think they've got one first round. One swap. One swap. Yeah.

Yeah. The thing about the Lakers, I would say, is that I understand why they gave Austin Reeves the Max. They obviously believed that there was a team out there that was ready to give Reeves the Max. I think that was a reasonable concern. But now Austin Reeves on a Max, if they wanted to trade him, I think it would be hard. I'm not saying nobody would want it, but I think it would be hard. And I think if you look at their contracts, all of their players are on deals that are just viewed as a little bit too rich or a little bit too long. Like Quentin Grimes, that contract wasn't like how to whack, but four years in a market where everybody is trying to give two and three year deals, you know, for example, like if Jared Vanderbilt didn't have this player option on the deal and he only had one year left, I think you could probably trade him.

But let's say that, you know, player X says in the next, you know, six months, I want to be a Laker. I want to play with Luca. Make me a Laker. Their team's in a decent spot. I just don't know if they, if their roster is very flexible. They don't have draft picks to grease anything. No, this is who they are, right?

And you're going to go into next summer where I think Luca's extension eligible again, and you basically can be walking into the last year of his contract. So certainly you basically moved everything draft-wise for Walker Kessler, and you're locked in. You know, all these guys got four-year deals with a player option here. So this is kind of who they are. Yeah. And look, the Lakers have never, ever, ever had a problem keeping their stars, right?

I mean, they've got a lot of advantage. They're number one in market for a reason among other things. Oh, they just lost a star. Well, and whose decision that was? was I, well, whatever. I'm just, you know, I'm not looking to pick a fight. I'm just, you know, I just want to point out. You're right.

You're right. I was just going to say, as team put together potential poaching targets, Luca Donchich is on that list. Denver Nuggets are 18th. They were ninth last year, one of the biggest drops. And they're ranked 30th in money, Bobby. Their hand with where they're at, with where they're spending is tough. And I agree with that. Well, they're the only team in the second apron, right?

So they're, they're locked in the, you know, Yokers, of course, has got a player option for next year. They're locked into that Aaron Gordon contract. Christian Brown is going into, you know, he's got that rookie extension, which is a big number. Cam Johnson could be a free agent here, and Jamal Murray's on a max, right? You're top, you're basically top heavy, and I think that shows you where your bench is. You're basically going to spin the minimum wheel every, you know, every off season. And then they lost their two best bench players in Hardaway. And Peyton Watson was a part, you know, part-time starter, whatever.

But they lost two key rotation players. And then, you know, with the money, like, Yokic's stated reason for waiting and not signing the extension this summer is because he wants to maximize the contract. And Bobby, what's that number? 277? Over like four years. Yeah. And he can go five. Well, actually, well, he'll become a free agent.

I think it's five for like 340. Yeah, it's literally the biggest contract in the history of the league. So this Yokic thing is just extremely fascinating because here's the thing about Yokic. Like he, his, he doesn't, I don't want to generalize. But if you look at players like Serbian players, they, Eastern European players, they don't have a history of like plotting to exit in free agency. those players typically like the teams that they grow up with. And even like Janus, Janus is, you know, Greek,

I think if all things were equal, Janus wanted to stay in Milwaukee. And part of the reason why it was so messy to give out is he didn't necessarily want to have to do it. I don't think Yokic wants to leave. Oh, I definitely don't think he wants to leave. And he's not why, like his circle is outrageously small. Like, but at the same time, he knows all this.

Like, he understands, like, he's one of the smartest guys in the league. So on one hand, if you're looking at this future power ranking and you're saying, boy, this is a tough spot? And you're looking at Yokic saying, is he really going to go into the back of his prime in this situation? We should plot to try to get him. At the same time, like, it just seems totally out of his character and personality to plot to get out. to get out of a situation. Well, I ain't just to be, you know, slick about it. And I do, like, I take him at his word.

Me too. It's been in Serbian, but I take him at his word that it is purely a business decision financially to wait to sign his contract. However, in doing that, that still puts the nuggets, like, you give him the contract. You don't let the best player in franchise history, one of the best players of this generation leave if you can keep them.

But their ability to build anything close to a contender with Joker making the most money in the league, the highest side in the league, it's going to be hard, man, really hard. Especially all the picks out the door. Like, I don't see the Nuggets being a legitimate contender for the rest of Joker's career. I can't make that assumption, but the fact that they're where they are here is a reflection of what they're, their outlook is. All right, the team that dropped, I believe, the most, was the Warriors, Bobby. They were sixth last year. I guess that was built off how strongly they finished the year before after the Jimmy Butler trade. They're ranked 22nd in players. That's like shocking to hear the Warriors

rank. There's my lights. That's how Steph feels like the lights would go out on. Aren't you in the room where we do television out of like all the time, like when we're zooming in, not zooming. No, I'm in the theater. Oh, you're in the theater. Okay. I got to find my, I got to figure out my roots situation here.

McMahon, that theater is sweet. I have not seen, I think I walked by it. I don't think I walked in. So there's this in the NFL offices. There's like, which I guess technically now are the ESPN slash NFL network offices.

There's like this, it's almost like a, I don't know, how many seats are there, Bobby, 40 or 50? Like, there's five rows of, it's probably, 60 seats.

But just this huge screen, like, oh, my God. Oh, yeah, you can watch games in there, right? Yeah. That's what they use it for. You could easily watch four or five games in there in superior luxury. This is, McMahon has always dreamed of the ultimate man cave. He's built like, I got three, I got three TVs of mine. But this is like the ultimate, the ultimate.

You would love. I'm not allowed to call to man cave, though, because the IT department keeps talking about toxic masculinity. it's a sports standard. All right, fair enough. Anyway, the Warriors are 19th, 20 second in players. Dean Oliver has a note in here, Bobby, that the Warriors will be the oldest team in the league this year.

When you look at a 38-year-old Steph Curry, 36-year-old Dreymond, 37-year-old Jimmy Butler, Al Horford didn't make the cut there, but he's second oldest player in the league, over 40. Last year, the oldest team, the lead, the Clipper has turned into a disaster. Yeah. You know who the fourth oldest team,

year was? The Knicks. Sacramento. Oh, that's not where you want. Oh, no. Anyway, even their rookie, Yaxel Leningborg from Michigan, he's going to turn 24 before the start of the season. They got an old rookie, too. Yeah, well, he looked good.

And he looked good in Summer League. But, yeah, so, like, I get it. But the one thing about the Warriors, you know, money you're listed here is 10th. if Steph doesn't extend, which he's now almost a month past his extension, at least three plus weeks, they're going to have a lot of flexibility. I doesn't mean that they're going to be able to get star players, but they're going to have a lot of flexibility. Listen, they're going to have anywhere between 45 to $60 million and still be able to sign Curry, who did an interview on Thursday saying, I'm all in, you know, as far as coming back and everything on a new deal,

they asked them if you want to be one of those guys that kind of switched teams, later in his career and he said no chance. Brandon Pajemski is a rookie extension eligible. I think the question is that what does this roster look like? Next year, when you've got, put Curry to decide, you've got, you know, Draymond and Butler, free agents, and who, you know, who's the next wave of players coming through? The only reason for a legend to, a one franchise legend

to even consider switching teams late in his career, is to ring hunt and a guy who's won four has no need to ring hunt. That doesn't mean Steph Curry doesn't want to win another championship, but not at the cost of putting on a strange uniform. All right, the LA Clippers. This is where I thought I would take it. Yeah, the Clipper fans got mad at me on Monday because I made a wise remark about them being at 29 and everything like that.

Oh, Clippers fans. I'll tell you what these days are going to break. I think Clipper fans just for a year, I think they should take a year's suspension with Steve Bomer. Exactly. Yeah, I feel bad for the Clipper fan. I'm actually going to be interested to see what the demeanor is this year at Intuit. Because I'm going to be going to even more Intuit games this year because our studios are now next to Intuit where it is they were next to Crypto.

Hopefully they give us better seating. You'll probably be able to move down. They had done a nice job with the wall. Like, they had to establish something there. They established what? A freaking playing exit? Well, what do I want me to say? I like, I mean, I, it's a nice arena.

It's a nice arena. The scoreboard was an illicit deal, but, uh, anyway. So was the arena sponsor, among other things. Hey, this says money for there should be an asterisk there, four. We got more where that came from. other avenues. True. I get it. Here's the thing.

This is what I'm going to say about the clippers, like repeatedly this year. Forward. We're going to look forward. This is looking forward. Wait, draft 26. Who the hell's lower than them in the draft? Well, this is the thing. I guess they just got a couple picked back.

Remember, it's the next three years. So they don't have, they got nothing in the next three. They got 27. They got goes pride O KC. 28 goes to fillier. Lost in 29 swap. Hold on. Here's the thing.

The Clippers have a pick in this draft coming up. Yeah, it's going to be OKCs. I understand. They don't have draft penalties until 29. And who knows by 29 what those penalties will be. I know Adam Silver said that the penalty is final, but. They don't have draft penalties. They just got to finish paying off the Paul George and James Harton deals.

They got to finish off paying a lot of things. But they got two first for Kauai. you know, Keaton Wogler, they need them to be very good. The biggest concern about this Clippers, you know, ranking, frankly, if you're a Clipper fan, is 26th in players.

Could be maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit, you know, I mean, you've got Ingram, Garland, you've got a lot of guys who've got decisions on, guys are two years left. Garland, Ingram, some veterans in there,

Brooke and, and Derek Jones, Chris Dunn's on expiring, all these guys. And who's making the decisions, right? Like how much leeway do you have to make decisions as far as with, you know,

Trent Redden likely is taken over as far as any interim. But Lawrence Frank's suspension goes past the trade deadline. Balmer's gone for a year. Like how much, how much do you have, how much can you make as far as with moves and everything?

By the way, the team that finished last in the draft the Minnesota Timberwolves and I get that Timberwolves at 16 is to me a pretty interesting thing there's not a whole lot of teams who have won at least a playoff series if not multiple

playoffs series in each of the last three seasons the Timberwolves are one of them and just made a win now move this summer so that that's a pretty interesting ranking there All right, in 30th place before we go, I'm sorry, Sacramento Kings. 30th in players.

Wait, they might get Jayland during next summer. 29th in management. The actual, the Kings and the Pelicans tied for a last. Yeah, you guys copped out on that one, Bobby. Nobody finished last in management. Well, some of the management issues with the Kings are as our legacy. of the previous, some previous decisions. Ownership is the most important part of management.

That's true. And they've got an awful owner. Yeah. You know, a couple years ago, Monty McNair won executive in the year. And then he got fired by their awful owner. I know. They're positive, though, is if you are rebuilding, the two things you want are draft and money, and that is something they've got there.

They drafted well last year. They brought in some good guys. they we'll see how Darius Aikoff looks this year that's obviously a huge swing moment for them so but we'll see maybe they by the way they were

25th last year and then they sunk the 30th oh 27th I want to correct myself by the way I said that the that the Warriors slept the farthest I was incorrect the clippers went from 5 to 29 oh no that's a that's a swan dive

Oh, my God. That's tough. All right. Well, Bobby, thank you. It's over now. No more talk of the future power rankings for 360 days. Until next year. All right. Thank you so much to all of our producers, Tucker, Mark, Jackson. Jackson's working double duty right now planning this. Thank you so much to Bobby for all your work and grinding your teeth through this. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching us and your support in the Hoop Collective. There's going to allow us to try this foray into Australasia. And we'll have more information on that, on the Hoop Collective Global Tour, World Tour, 26. And we will talk to you next week.

Adios amigos.