Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Spurs’ Hype, Rockets’ Leap & Cooper Flagg’s Future: Biggest Questions in the Southwest Division

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Brian Windhorst, Tim McMahon and Michael C Wright preview the Southwest Division, breaking down the biggest questions facing the Spurs, Rockets, Mavericks, Pelicans and Grizzlies heading into the 2026 NBA season. The guys discuss each team’s outlook, the roster questions that could define their season and where they stack up in the Western Conference. Plus, who has the highest ceiling, which team has the most to prove and who could surprise? Timecodes: 00:00 Welcome To The Hoop Collective 02:25 Our 2026-27 Southwest Division Preview 02:38 Sky high expectations for the Spurs  15:00 Windy Storytime: Spurs redemption 19:00 How can Spurs maximize their young talent? 29:30 Rockets hoping to take a leap this season 41:15 Cooper Flagg’s development exciting in Dallas 52:28 Can things improve for the Pelicans? 57:10 Memphis is a very hard team to project Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the HOOP Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, and today we're talking about the Southwest Division. Joining us from San Antonio, Texas, Michael C. Wright. Hello, fellas. How you doing? And our second favorite Texan, joining us from Los Angeles today, it's Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. Wendy, did you know that Michael C. Wright is of Filipino descent? I do.

Michael Wright, how do you feel about the podcast visiting the Philippines? I am super excited for you guys. As a, I guess, a Filipino. I've never been to the Philippines. My mom is from Saboo City. But I've already told Tim McMahon, because I heard a previous podcast where he said, I'm an adventurous eater.

Okay, you're adventurous. You need to try balut. That's what I hear. I do not. It is a duck egg that's been incubated like 21 days. and they sort of like pickle it in vinegar and stuff, and you just crack the shell. My mom told me that, like, dudes at the bar, that's what they eat.

And so I hit Timmy up, and I was like, hey, since you're so adventurous, you should try a balloon. Well, China is definitely a dude at the bar. But, you know, when I told him what it was, he was like, I might if I get a couple beers in me. And I said, Tom being, my friend. Along the adventurous eater lines, Jackson sent me a, you know, you don't even get involved in this McMahon, but Jackson sent me a menu of a possible place for a team dinner in Melbourne. Melbourne. The all are silent.

Melbourne. Yeah. And I rejected it. Why is that? It didn't have chicken paramed. I mean, well, first off, the Australians are known for their paramed. They're Parmys. And you can get one on every corner.

And that that would be set to menu that didn't have a place that didn't have a parmi is right out of the gate. We're in trouble. But, you know, I approve the second one, McMahon, that you have not been advised. How do I get no say? Well, it has good seafood on it. So I'm sure. All you eat is fish anyway. So, you know, I mean, there's only so many fish.

Yes. So this is how we start these division previews. This one's unfortunately not going to be too difficult. Who is the current reigning champion of the Southwest Division? Gee whiz. Gwis, the San Antonio Spurs, maybe? Yeah. San Antonio Spurs,

who, I think there's going to be a, way do you get a load of our Spurs coverage in 2026, 27? Mike Wright's going to be busy. I'm sorry to tell you, Mike Wright is in for, a bigger workload this year, the early season meetings and whatnot. I can already tell you that ESPN is, eyes are wide open on the, on the San Antonio Spurs, Michael.

Well, what happened during the meeting? Because I ended up getting to miss that because I was at Rockets Media Day. Good for you. Oh, they said you're going to be working. That's the Cliff Notes version. Oh, what's new? What's new? Yeah.

We volunteered you for so many special assignments. Hey, you got to do what you got to do, man. And ultimately, this is fun. This is what we all love to do anyway. So just totally immerse me in it because this whole off season, I haven't been doing anything, but letting my hair grow, getting growing a mustache, all those things. I've been bored to death. You need the season to get here and you need the stash to go.

Oh, yeah. I think you're just jealous of it. So when we last saw the San Antonio Spurs, they were being brought to their needs. by the power of the NBA champion New York Knicks. And all their fans. And for the first time as an NBA player, I believe, Victor Wembenyama was really humbled in that series.

And so I have a couple of things that I'm very interested in seeing when the spurs begin. I know Wembe is going to be awesome. Like, that is not a doubt about that. But I want to see Michael, if Wemby has been humbled or not, because I have no idea what this dude might say on Media Day. I'm just going to be honest with you.

I don't know when Jackson's releasing this podcast. Maybe it'll be after Media Day. I do not know what this dude might say on Media Day, and I've got my popcorn. Well, let me tell you what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that Victor does not want to talk about what happened in the finals. Tough. I'm hearing he's, like, locked in.

Like, he's locked in. As a matter of fact, I was told that he hasn't even, he's not even talking to any American media outlets except for 60 minutes. Oh, give me a break. And I'm curious to see what the 60 minutes is. But, like, yeah, he's, it affected him in a way. And rightfully so. Yeah, but think about it. The whole series, and I know a lot of people thought that he was being arrogant when he, like, some of the things he would say.

But, no, that's just Victor. Like he sincerely believed that the Spurs would win. He sincerely believed that the Spurs were the better team. And it just didn't go the way he wanted it to. But I think he learned a lot about it. Like one thing he talked about was just like, when you're at that final stage, all it takes is one mistake.

And a team will punish you for that one mistake. And I don't think he realized up to that point just how serious that is. Like, you know, like one turnover could be the difference in the ball game. And I don't think Victor recognized that. It was when he threw the pass in the castle's back. Yeah. What was that?

It was that game two, I believe. Two, game two, yeah. Yeah. It was a four-one series loss that they led every game by double figures. Now, obviously, game four was just an epic historical collapse. It was a humbling experience for the spurs. you know, and he might be right. Like, he believes that he's going to be the best player to ever walk the face of the earth.

He might end up being right. But, you know, he got smacked down a little bit in that series when he wasn't a dominant force. Like Carl Anthony Towns went toe to toe with him and more than held his own. So, and let's just be straight up. like Victor certainly presents himself, I think for the most part, is a very mature, thoughtful young guy. There were streaks of immaturity throughout that playoff run. I mean, the crap with lining up the elbow on Nas read and then...

You can't hit a guy in the throat. I don't care if it's in October. And you sure, as Bleep, can't do it in the playoffs. You can't do it. zero accountability, you know? And like, so. Well, the Spurs helped him out on that. And the spur, you know, for all this, for all this, you know, the, you know, the leadership

of the organization, uh, I didn't sense an incredible amount of leadership on the spurs organization. And look, they got a, they got to manage Wembe, but I didn't, you know, Popovich can meet, and can meet people at the, at the airport, you know, Tim Duncan can pull people aside. You got to get the results of that. I'm, it's not defined. I mean, Victor's got 20 years left. But I didn't think that there's Spurs leadership on that was exemplary.

That's all I'll say. No, they've been over backwards. We're talking about the elbow. Just in general, the way that Victor got treated throughout that whole thing. Like that, he materially hurt his team. It didn't cost him that series, but he materially hurt his team. And, you know, they let him run from it. Maybe that's the difference in them closing that series a little bit earlier.

Because, you know, you talk to enough people within the organization. Like, there is that belief that, you know, as the Spurs, they went through sort of a more rigorous postseason than New York Knicks. And by the time they got to the finals, you know, just sort of the emotional stuff, all that stuff really wore them down going into that series. Meanwhile, the Knicks basically steamrolled everybody after that first round. And I think the organization, for the most part, the philosophy is whatever Wimby wants is what we're going to do. And I get it.

I mean, he's just such an incredible talent. and is so focused and determined and just wants to pour everything he possibly can into maximizing his potential. But there's a little bit of, you know, he needs some guidance, I would say. He still needs some guidance. But listen, he also does things like walks into a hostile arena

in Oklahoma City for a game one of the Western Conference finals and has one of the most incredible playoff performances as I've ever seen with my own eyes and goes back there for a game seven and closes out the series. So, you know, we can nitpick Wemby, and we will. We will, but holy moly,

like, he does have a chance to be the best player we've ever seen. He got to the finals. He took this team to the finals when they were all puppies. Yes, they'll be back. There's no questioning, you know, his talent, and there's no, and like, no kidding

that he's got to learn some tough lessons as a second, you know, third year player. Of course, you know. And like, Kobe didn't become Kobe when he was 21. There were airballed threes with a playoff game on the line, a series on the line. Absolutely. I mean, how long was Steph in the league before they finally, you know, kind of got over the hump? I mean, it was a while. Steph Curry.

I mean. LeBron's first finals, it was the men versus the boys against San Antonio. And LeBron wasn't ready for it. He wasn't at the top. Was that 99? Oh, you're talking about Kobe. Oh, 3? Yeah, that was 03.

Kobe had Shaq in his prime. Yeah. I mean, the Kobe that led them to the three straight finals post-Shack with, you know, him screaming at Powell Gasol and Lamar Odom and Andrew Bidenem up and down the court. That was a, I'm just saying that Kobe didn't pop out at age 21. The LeBron who, you know, carried the calves of the 2016 finals, it was a different LeBron James when he was 21, okay? I think he was 22 when he went to the finals for the first time. Like, like, you know, pointing out that Victor wasn't ready for the moment is not a

criticism of what he can be. There's two different things. But we're talking like the greatest players of all time. Jordan, you know, Jordan took it on the chin multiple, multiple years. Now the bad boys tormented him for a little bit, yeah. 1996 Michael Jordan It was not recognizable in 1987 Okay

So of course Do you expect this? But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen It's one thing to say It's one thing to hold a player accountable It's another thing to say That we think his future is incredibly bright I mean these two things can be independently accurately said

All right, forget about that But obviously Victor is The way Victor has presented himself to the media Is a window into sort of his mood And like what he said. So wait a minute. So Mike, he is not going to talk to the media on media day at all. No, I think he is.

I think he is. He has no choice. But I'm saying, right. Up to this point, it's, you know, he's totally locked in. He does not want to talk about the finals. He's only talking to 60 minutes, apparently. I don't know what's going on. Like, I heard all this when I was at the jackals tryouts.

And by the way, Tim, you are beloved by the jackals. I don't know why. I'm an honorary member. They love you, bro. Listen, I've still got the big, you know, flavor-flav-style jackals logo thing at the house. They love you, man. And you know what? They also...

Hey, can I tell you a little secret? I get some stuff from some of our boys in Oklahoma City for my honorary jackals membership. They're still mad about that. Well, I got a lot of positive comments about the hit show, Howdy Partners. So, you know, all right. We'll have to get that going again soon. Listen, the jackals are expanding this year. Am I correct in saying that?

They are. Doubling. They're trying to get 100 new members. I went to the tryouts the other day, and it was wild. I'd have to look through my phone notes because I kind of took notes just to get colored just in case I write about it at some point. But I know I spotted at least four or five dudes with like full-blown green alien suits. Oh, yeah.

It's a fun group. And listen, man. Like, Wimby ain't perfect. There are some rough edges that we saw emerge during that playoff run last year. But he cares. And I talk about how much he cares, like, you know, with the stuff he does to prepare physically and mentally. But, like, the Jackals thing shows how much he cares. He's like, I want a home court advantage.

Let's have this, you know, European football, you know, ultra-style fan group. And it's his baby. And, like, there's, there's communication between Wembe, a lot of times through Jordan Hounstein, their PR chief, to the Jackals. So, like, Wimby is on a regular basis involved with the group. But, Ro, he gave them dudes. We were talking about it at the Jackal Strouds last weekend. Like, Vic sat everybody down and gave them a PowerPoint presentation. Yes.

About how, like, this is what I want to do. And he's, like, suggesting. chance and stuff. It's crazy. I wish I could show you the, like, I have the judges sheet, like how they judge. Like, there was like three rounds. This thing was intense. But like, it was

exhaustive, like, just sort of all the points they wanted to hit in terms of like how to judge the competition. And I'm sure I'll be writing about it at some point, guys. Like, you know, I mean, people can't get enough winpy. Well, it's going to be a long season for the Spurs. Right. A lot of

spurs content required. So you got plenty a time. We're going to get our money right with SoFi here as we go down memory lane. Hey, it's Wendy here. Are you looking to rebound from your high interest credit card debt? A SOFi personal loan could help. Consolidate your debt with a SOFI personal loan into one low monthly payment and you could save money on interest over time. And with as soon as the same day funding, you could hit the ground running ASAP. Apply today with no fees required at SOFI.com slash debt rebound. Loan Originated by SoFi Bake, NA member FDIC,

Terms and Conditions Apply. NMLS 696891. Fast funds terms apply at sophy.com slash debt rebound. Just because somebody did something before, you know, just because Tim Duncan did it a certain way

doesn't mean that Victor's got to do it that way. I want to be clear about that. But having said that, as Victor enters this season with the intent to not talk about last year, I want to talk about the last time the Spurs did win the finals. You want to go way back.

because in 2013, I get assigned to go to the Spurs Media Day. They had blown the series lead against the heat. And I was like, oh, man, like, this is a brutal assignment. Because, you know, first off, those Spurs, you know, it wasn't like Popovich was, you know, really thrilled about holding court in general for any media session. And I was like, all right, I got to go there. And it's the first time we've seen them since game six, game seven. They blew it.

I flew to San Antonio with like, man, this is going to be a rough day. Because you know what the assignment was, Michael Wright? It was like, get the spurs to talk about blowing the finals the year before. The impeachable, untouchable, you know, Hall of Fame laden spurs for blowing it to LeBron James. So I dragged myself into that facility. Guess what? It's all they wanted to talk about. It's all they wanted to talk about.

Greg Popovich said, we've got to live in this. Tim Duncan came out and said, we think about it every day. Genobley said, we have to own this. I remember they left that night. They went to the Air Force Academy. Pop took him to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs for training camp. And basically they said, we ain't going to talk about it after today, but we're never going to stop thinking about it. And instead of, and obviously that season, they put on one of the most incredible displays of team and focused basketball that I have ever seen.

And, you know, I was still covering the heat part time at that point. I was living in New York City. And the heat came in for their one visit. I want to say it was in February or March. You know, it was a made for TV game, was a finals rematch. And they took the heat to pieces. And then, of course, you get to the finals

and the display of focused offensive basketball they played is still legendary. And I would just say this, that, you know, you don't got to talk. If you don't want to talk about it, fine. You don't want to be browbeat or whatever, whatever. But the last thing the San Antonio Spurs wanted to do in 2013-14 was forget what it happened.

what had happened to them when they lost their cool, they lost their composure, they lost their execution in the finals. And that mindset, and granted, that team was much more experienced. Nobody was questioning whether they could be champions. But I'm telling you,

the mindset that I was stunned to discover on day one was the mindset that they had throughout that season, and that was the last time we saw them going down the riverwalk with the ranks. So it's all I'm going to say. And now we can move on. to Tilliff Harper. A little wisdom packed into the story time. Well, I'm not saying I've got any more wisdom than anybody in the Spurs organization.

I'm just saying the last time the Spurs lost in the finals, the last thing they wanted to do was forget. That's what I'm saying. And that first day, they put that film on. They put the film on because, like, I can remember it. Like, Danny Green has told me several times. Like, he just got cussed out during that whole film session of that Heat Final series. So, yeah, like different coaches, I guess different approaches.

But I think we are really going, just like coming into this season, we're going to see what Ms. Johnson is made up because he's going to have, I guess, some difficult situations. I mean, like you think about it. Like, you know, like a guy like Julian Champini, he's starting. He set a record for threes in the season. And then you bring in Tobias Harris. and I'm guessing that Julian isn't going to start anymore. Well, and that's not the biggest issue with the starting lineup.

And, you know, this is a thing, like, you've got a young coach who, you know, it was a rough final series but did a hell of a job in his first full year as a coach. But listen, man, Dylan Harper, number two overall pick, had a great rookie year in a limited role coming off the bench. And, like, it's no secret. he's not going to be satisfied coming off the bench. The people in his camp aren't going to be happy if he's coming off the bench. His father, his championship winning father.

Let's just start right there. Let's start there. Well, let's not put a run. Yeah, it's coming mostly from his people. Yeah. But the point being is this kid who is a potential rising superstar wants to be in the starting lineup. I think they're going to have to get him in the starting lineup.

I don't think it can be at the expense of Deerrin Fox or obviously Stefan Castle. And so I think they're going to start the three guards and just kind of figure the rotation out from there, which there's challenges involved with that. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking the exact same thing. And I can remember Mitch Johnson sort of throughout the playoffs. He talked about like all the talent I've got on this roster. Like I have crazy ideas that I want to implement, but you really can't implement those ideas. is if you don't have the time to rep them, you know, in practice.

I think maybe there's a chance they go in and aggregators leave me alone. But there's a chance going in that all three of those guards could start. Now, if you go back to last season and you look at some of the lineups, the two men line or the lineups with those three guards, the numbers were not very good at all, but at the same time it was a very small sample size. So I'm curious to see what that looks like. if they try to implement that. But they have built a roster where they can try a bunch of different things

over the course of the season that they can really implement during the playoffs. And I think that it's going to be different, especially coming into this season with the expectations being sky high after going into last season with like no expectations. Can I just say they don't have three guards? They have four? They do? Are you counting Vassell?

Vassell. I mean. We can go five, McLaughlin, too. Nah, he's a backup. With all due respect, with all due respect. I'm saying, he's a backup. Devin Vassell is a quality player, you know, and that guy, you know, his ability to stretch the floor and handle the ball.

Like, I mean, like, people are they going to get these three guards in there? Like, Devin Vessel makes $27 million. Like, you know. Do you know at one time he was the highest paid spurred in franchise history? when the contract that he signed was the highest contract? Yep, yep. Like, it's crazy, the numbers. Yeah, I mean, look, this is a, this is a rich man's problem, whatever, a, you know, good problem to have, but it's still a problem.

First world problems. Definitely a first world problem. So, yeah, and look, Billy Donovan is on the staff. Like, they brought in Billy Donovan. And, you know, Billy, I think, you know, he gave an interview recently. where he said that like during, you know, the Spurs knew they were losing Sean Sweeney for a while. And during the playoff,

the Spurs were at, you know, Billy said in an interview that, that the Spurs were actively reaching out to him while they were in the middle of their playoff run. Like, they were recruiting him to try to, I mean, they very clearly identified, like, look, if Billy's not going to get one of these jobs, we want him on the bench. And, you know, and this is,

this is what a good organization does. They're trying to figure out their team. And so obviously, they wanted, you know, they already had an experience. They already had a very experienced staff. You know, you know, Brett Brown and, you know, there's, it wasn't like Mitch Johnson was,

his lack in there. I mean, he had a very strong staff. But, you know, the front office, like, we need to, we can bring in Billy Donovan here. And look, listen. The coaching staff has a challenge. It gets a good challenge, you know. How do you fit all these really talented players together?

That's a nice challenge to have. And manage all that. But, yeah, I mean, that's going to be part of the story of the Spurs this year. By the way, just to give some numbers, looking up on the databaller.com site, where you can punch in different lineup combinations. Those three guards played only 20 minutes together during the regular season, minus 29.6 net rating. Again, tiny sample size.

There was injuries involved in that. And then playoffs, they played only 40 minutes together. And that was also not effective minus 24.8. Yeah, number's not good at all. But again, those are small, small sample size. Those are, you know, they're going to have obviously a whole training camp to try to figure it out. But also, to your point, like, okay, you know who's starting at five. Who's starting at the four?

Is it Tobias Harris? Is it Julian Champany? Do you possibly bump up Devin Vassell and play like a super, you know, super small plus wimby type of lineup? I don't know, man. I mean, Jackson points out that Vassell has a 610 wingspan, but he ain't a 4. No, he's not a 4. He's not. No.

One of the challenges was playing those three guards together is none of the three. none of them are good three-point shooters. Which Vissell is. Yeah. And so the like the shooting could become challenging. Although, listen, you always give room for like, you know, maybe Harper or Castle came, you know, had a great summer working on their shot and makes a leap. Like you see guys improve his three-point shooters early in their careers all the time. I think, and I think that's sort of what they're doing.

Like there's been a lot of, I guess, work behind the scenes. I hear really good things about Dylan Harper, but I don't want to go into it on here because the aggregators will be all over me. Look, I'll just say it. The Spurs internally believe Dylan Harper is their second best player. I'm not saying Ms. Johnson's going to come out and say that. He shouldn't come out and say that.

That's not a slight on Deerrin Fox. That's not a slight on Stefan Castle. Harper is a stud. You talk to other front offices in the league. They say the same thing. This guy is... I mean, look, he was a number two pick in the draft. Of course he's a stud.

Of course he's a stud. And he only got better. as the season went along. The one thing I will say, I don't know Champany super well, Michael Wright, you tell me, I think he's, I think he's kind of an egosist player.

He'd have to be. You know, he worked his way up. Definitely is. He's a pro. He's a guy that's sort of self-made. You know what I mean? Like, he's, there's the gratitude

of sort of being in the position the Spurs put him in, and then he sort of kind of, you know, he delivered on the court, And they rewarded him for it. Andy got paid, which helps. Yeah, three years, $45 million.

Also, Tobias Harris, definitely an egoless guy. Veteran, egoless guy. Great signing, $15 million a year for two years, egosless. So it helps, I think, that you're going to have two guys who potentially have to have their roles limited, who I think will be open to doing that. And also, Keldon Johnson, who, is in the last year of his contract and I'm not sure

exactly what his future is going to be because the spurs are about to get really expensive. I think there's a good chance that he ends up with a new deal. Okay. You think so? I think there's a pretty good chance. Are you saying that with a twinkle in your eye?

I think there's a pretty good chance. I just, you know. All right. Anyway, regardless of his contract, he is one, as anybody knows, he is 100% embraced being that sixth man, even if reality is he's like seventh man. Yeah, after being their leading score when they were in a rebuild, you know.

And Mike will tell you, that dude is the soul of that locker room for sure. And one of the, I mean, he's a character, you know, him and, you know, Mike goes and hangs out with him on his ranch. Mike's like, oh, I got some boots that I can put on. Goes and puts his boots on. That was a classic feature that you did last year at Kelden's ranch. That should be nominated for a feature of the year. Which was a better feature?

McMahon with the jackals or Michael Wright dodging the rattlesnakes because that's what I would have been. My head would have been on a swivel, Michael Wright. Well, you know, it wasn't rattlesnake season, I don't think. But like what are the stories? If you say so. I bet you're in this. Hey, Mike, speaking of adventurous eating, have you ever eaten rattlesnake? Yeah.

Okay. It tastes like chicken. Everything tastes like chicken. Rubbery chicken, but yes. Yes. Lots of bones. I'm staying away from the... Here's my deal.

I'll never eat Rattlesnake. I'll leave them alone. They leave me alone. That's our deal. All right. Put it out there in the country. All right. So the Spurs are going to be a content-rich team all year long, I believe, even though I am a huge believer, obviously, in them.

Elsewhere in the division, we have we got some Texans we got some Texas teams McMahon where do you want to start you want to start in Houston you want to start in Dallas yeah let's go Houston let's let's go top of the standings and

kind of work our way on down Michael right you were at the the Rockets Media Day the other day McMahon and I are going to be catching up with the Rockets over in Asia Fred Van Vleet is back and to me like it's Fred Van Vandlead is back period and then start everything else because no matter what

anybody wants to say, no matter what Reed Shepard's mustache and hair look like, no matter what, you know, Alman Thompson has signed his contract, Fred Van Vleck coming back is one of the, we're going to talk about this division. It might be one of the headlines in the division. No, it's huge. It's huge because the way it was sort of framed at Media Day was like basically the expectations we have going into this season were the expectations we would have had last season had Fred Van Vleet been available. And, you know, there's a lot of talk about, like, okay, with Fred back, a lot of guys can naturally or slide back into their natural positions.

And I was thinking about that. I'm like, well, Amin is the only one that really played out of position last year. But I think what he's saying is that they tried the whole offensive facilitation by committee. And so you had Operation Schengen. How'd that go? It did not go well. But you had the offense running through a bunch of different people.

Now, with those guys adding responsibilities, in some ways they grew from a developmental standpoint. Some of those guys grew. And so the hope now is that, okay, everybody gets back into their natural positions and they don't have to do as much because we got Fred Van Fleet, you know, sort of running the show. But the extra skills that they learned over the course of last season going through all that will only help them to be bad.

And let's be real, they also added a couple pieces, you know, Marcus Smart, who was disrespected, apparently in L.A. with that contract. You know, he's got experience with E.M.U.D.A. U.D.A. from going back to Boston. And I know Amin Thompson was talking about how, like, he hopes to learn some tricks from Marcus? Because he's like, oh, isn't Marcus Smart from your neck of the woods, Tim? He's like, y'all went to the same high school, right? Flower Mountain Marcus High School. He was so good there the name school after them. Brian,

you know, for the record, Ohio, they were Ohio state colors. Yeah, Marcus Marauders. I, very smart.

I withdrew from there at Christmas break in my freshman year. Is that like getting resigned? Was that like residing before you get fired? There was, there was an expulsion meeting scheduled, but that never happened.

And then, you know, we'll get to Cooper Flag in a little bit, but then I went up to Maine and played in more state championship games in Maine than Cooper Flag did. It's a fact. Noted. Now, he was only there one year, and he went one and oh, I went O and two, but hey, minor details. So you had a more accomplished, you know, in Maine basketball accomplishments, you are above Cooper Flagg. I think, like, in terms of, like, the math's pecking order I am, too, right? Yeah, right. Clearly.

In all seriousness, no, with Marcus Smart, they missed Dylan Brooks last year. They missed the tone that he set. They missed, you know, just kind of his tenaciousness, obviously his defense. They're hoping that Marcus Smart can give them a good chunk of the ingredients that they missed from Dylan Brooks. And then he is another guy who he's not really a point guard, but he can, you know, play it in spots. If need be, Reed Shepard's not really a point guard. He had to play it more than they wanted last year.

Ideally, he's coming off the ball and just launching, and he can get back to doing more of that, certainly. Yeah, and then the men can sort of be more of a factor on the defensive end. You know, he talked about it. Like, he said he didn't deserve to be on the all defensive team. He was kind of mad that his brother made it, but he didn't. But, you know, he, there was so, he has so much responsibility as one of the main ball handlers. And so that took away from his defense somewhat.

And I can tell you now that EMA is already playing this whole nobody respects us card. Like he talked about like, you know, last year we played on opening night. Last year we played on Christmas. We were not scheduled for that going into this season. So he's already sort of planting those seeds to have those guys play with an edge. And that's fine, but he knows exactly why. And he addressed that too. They ain't been out of the first round.

It's facts. Two years in the room. Houston won 52 games last year, and I will say this, like the way we all talk about them, and the amount of games that they blew in the fourth quarter, I mean. 18 or something like that, man. It was crazy.

No, 18 that they had double-digit leads. Well, listen, just look at their overtime record. So they went to eight overtime games, which I think if it wasn't the lead, I don't have it in front of me, But they went to like, if they didn't go to the most, they went to a lot of the most. Think of how many of those games wouldn't have gone to overtime. First off, think of those eight games.

How many of those games they probably could have won in regulation if they had more competent point card play? Let's move on from that. In overtime, they were one in seven. They were a bad clutch team. I mean, one in seven. So it's a 52 win team, one in seven in overtime. They were a clutch turnover machine. Okay.

And they were also, like, there were issues. with connectivity in the Rockets' locker room to put it, you know, politically correct. Well, that's fine. Is that over with? Because it's mostly the same guys. Van Vleet directly, significantly impacts both of those issues. Kevin Durant was part of both of those problems. I would say you could even say Kevin Durant was at the top of the list of both of those problems. At the same time, KD was kind of thrust into, I'm not going to say unfair, but it. a position that didn't play to his strengths, having to be the primary initiator down the stretch of games,

having to be the default leader, the guy most responsible for the mood of the locker, those don't play to his strengths. Those do play to Fred Van Fleet strengths and kind of takes those burdens off of Katie's shoulders this year. Well, I'm just saying last year's victory totals are wonked because there were so many tankers. But they were a 52-win team

that probably was a 57-win team if they had competent point-card play. And Stephen Adams. The tree also really heard them. That was huge, yeah. The offensive, it wasn't so much the offensive rebounding because they still led the league in offensive rebounding. It was converting.

Like, yeah, you get an offensive rebound, but you got to make those, you know, those tip-ins or whatever, you know, like those second-chance scoring opportunities, you've got to score on those. And I think they were pretty low in turn. I don't know low,

but they didn't convert as much as they wanted to. So that's sort of a point of emphasis for those guys this year, too. And Stephen Adams is a damn good defensive anchor. Their defensive numbers with him on the floor are really, really strong. And apparently a lover of GTA with his, you know,

Stephen Adams has many, iconic quotes over the years. I did a feature on him when he was coming off his rookie year, and he talked about his hometown Rotarua in New Zealand is alongside this lake that's got all this sulfur in it. Smells like Fawts. He's like, oh, it smells like Fots, mate. That's what he talked about it. That's what he said about his hometown.

This is a man who eats steaks with his bare hands. Yeah, I mean, I remember when I did this feature on him, I don't know if he's still eating like this, But I remember talking to his Thunder teammates, and they said, like, you know, this is back in the days, like, when every NBA player, well, not every NBA player, but it was Cheesecake Factory was the NBA Restaurant of Choice back in those days. If you wanted to find NBA players, especially ones who were on the road, you'd go to the Cheesecake Factory. And everybody knows Cheesecake Factory's entrees are generously portioned. And Stephen would go to Cheesecake Factory with his teammates and order three entrees without, without, blinking. Like my dinner is this, this, this and this, and this, and would clean the plate. Plural. Yeah. Clean them. You know, hand them back empty. So, you know, the man is incredible.

I mean, the whole Stephen Adam story is fascinating. He was the youngest of 17 children. His dad was in his 60s when he was born. And his older brothers used to beat the hell out of him. And his dad would come bail him out. You know, get his brothers off of him. But his sister is, he's, a multi-time gold medal winning shot put. She's one of the heroes of... Yeah, he's not the best athlete in his family. When he was young, I can't remember, he was less than 10. I can't remember how old he was when his father passed away.

But when his father passed away, you know, he didn't have him to get his brothers off of him. And his brothers, when he would cry, they would hit him harder, which is why he could hit Stephen Adams anywhere and you don't see him react. All right? But anyway, his quote, he said that he thinks that all of pro sports football and band basketball especially will dip in productivity in November because GTA 6 is coming out I saw that November 19 and by the way as much as I talk about Fred Van Vleek coming back and being the leader and the rational voice in the locker room man they miss Stephen Adams in the

lockroom as well because like that dude is such a larger than life personality you cannot help but smile when he's around saying completely outrageous stuff while walking in and flip flops in the middle of the winter with a raw steak in his hands and listen absolutely the guy you'd want to go to battle with like he's not he's not he says funny stuff but he's not goofy but he's not goofy but he's a guy that takes the edge off of a tense situation. You know what I mean? Correct. Okay, what are we doing, Mike?

We all love playing basketball. You know what I mean? Like, he's the guy that puts it in perspective and the guys are going to follow him just because of his extensive experience. I mean, this dude, he's been in these battles that the Rockets are hoping to get into. Well, speaking of which,

one of his, one of my favorite quotes of all time came from the conference finals when he was with the thunder. You know the quote of reference in Wendy? I'm sure I do, but I don't remember out of top of my head. When Draymond had a couple of, the lower extremities of Draymond twice in the series ended up hitting Stephen Adams

in the most sensitive of areas, and he was asked if he felt like it was intentional. And he said, it's not that big a target, mate. You have a pretty good, impression there, man. Some people would never say that. Let's move up,

am I allowed to say move up I-35? McMahon holds me accountable. No, Houston's not on I-35. Is it 10 or 45? 45. I mean, it's on 10-amph. But to get to Dallas, I recommend going North on 45. I'm embarrassed. I pride myself on geography. How many

Buckees do you pass between Houston and on 45 between Houston and Dallas? He would never know, Michael, because he doesn't drive. The man flies from Fort Worth to Dallas. There's one in the Innes, and then there's another one. I'm forgetting the exact town.

Maybe is, I don't want to screw up my geography either. But there's at least two. All right. Well, two is enough. If you got to go twice, you're okay. The Mavericks last year, they were. What was their tanking level? Well, listen, man, last year was a complete cluster because you had the black cloud of NICO lingering over the start of the season.

They should have obviously fired. Yeah, well, that's part of that black cloud. Then you had the whole AD situation. And then obviously it was time to tank. You know, you had, there was just a lot. lot of messiness. You have the uncertainty of who was going to replace Nico. You had J-Kid politic and behind the scenes trying to become the president. You know, you had a whole bunch of injuries. It made no sense for Kyrie to come back, which obviously now he will be back in the mix. A year and a half

off of the ACL. And you had an 18 turning 19 year old prodigy Cooper Flag living up to expectations. and breathing some hope into an organization. I tell you, man, like they're still a little work due on their fan base. I run into people all the time who are, you know, tell them, I just haven't been able to get back into it since the Trader Luke. And I tell him, like, listen, man,

this kid Cooper's got a chance to be that type of player, like maybe not stylistically similar. Yeah, he doesn't capture the imagination like Luca does. Luca, what he's able to do, you just can't take your eyes off him. Well, and the whole thing, I don't want to get in too much, but the whole thing with Luke who was also, he was an extension of dark and just it was, it was so deep-rooted. But point being, Cooper Flagg gives hope to an organization because he has a chance to be an MVP candidate type of player. Like he has a chance to this year, 19, turn 20, I think he's got a decent chance to be an All-Star and I wouldn't be shocked if he's all-MBA. Like, he's that level of talent. They just got. Masayu Jiri, you know, new president of basketball operations, a new shot caller. He's really got to nail a lot of things on the margins because of the handcuffs that are in place,

left over from the NICO era, and left over from their successful build of a finals team, which, again, is just the what's so great by the whole deal. Here's a big question. Obviously, we're going to look at Cooper in year two. I'm as excited about, you know, Victor Wembenyama was the pinnacle, you know, after LeBron, the next prospect that engaged, I mean, again, I'm not, Bond temps will be making fun of me for this, but I know it's not a unique perspective,

but between LeBron and Cooper, I never, between LeBron and Victor, I never, those are the two most exciting prospects I ever have been involved with my career. But Cooper is just right below that. And I was absolutely completely excited and engaged by Cooper's rookie year. And so therefore, the jumps that the young players make between year one and year two,

and year two and year two and year three are often enormous. We see second and third year guys take huge steps. And so therefore, this season is really defined by Cooper's jump. But from a overall franchise standpoint, the question really McMahon is, is this a team that Kyrie Irving is going to be on when we get to February? That's what the league is watching. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And, you know, Miss I did not want to have any discussions about Kyrie trades this year. You know, what I can tell you right now is Kyrie is fully on board and excited about coming back to play with the Mavericks, right? He just organized this kind of unofficial mini camp that they had out here in L.A. with the beach yoga in Santa Monica and the runs. He's been he's been hooping all summer long. Looks like himself on Instagram and the people I know that have, or I've talked to that have been. in the gyms with him, say, dude, like, Kyrie is Kyrie. You know, Kyrie, they expect him to come back and be the dude that he was a year and a half ago when he got hurt, which he was playing at an all-MBA level at that time.

Now, what is the goal of the organization? It is to build a sustainable contender around a 19-year-old prodigy. You know, Kyrie's in his mid-30s. You know, I think we all understand the math, and so I do think this is something. I know a lot of other teams are monitoring this. I think let's just keep an eye on it from a transaction cycle to transaction cycle basis. And so would I be stunned if Kyrie ends up getting traded at the deadline? No, I would not be stunned by that.

And in saying that, it could absolutely be a win-win type of situation where they work together and there's no hard feelings and everybody gives each other a hug and wishes each other well. That's how you like to go. You like to give people hugs and wish them. I'm a huger. Especially Mark Cuban. I may not hugged cubes before? That's how the Mavericks organization is now operating. They've all given him, Cuban, a hug and wished him well and showed him the door.

I've always got to check his hands to make sure there's no blades in them so that it can punch it at my bag. But he might say the same about you. There you go. But look, but the most important thing is obviously for that even to be an appealing alternative for the Mavericks is, you know, Kyrie comes back and plays well and reminds people who just how viable he is. And if he is on the market, I don't think there's any question he'd be one of the most coveted players around the deadline. Like there's a. And the other thing is, like, let's be. honest, man, think about how much he has rehabilitated his reputation in Dallas. He was a

distressed asset coming off so much controversy. And one thing that Kyrie is going to bring to the Mavericks that they really need is that veteran leadership. And he's the, you know, he's like the wise vet, the, you know, the sage voice in the locker room. They all listen to him. They all love him. He's, you know, like an upbeat person. Yeah, I think I think that's the point. Everything you're saying is the point. People don't know, is Kyrie going to be available or not? The answer might be hell no.

But if the answer is maybe, then, you know, and the Mavericks could drive really great value. Like, they may have to. And again, I don't know which way it's going to go. Well, another thing is I don't know how much the standings might have to say in that. Like maybe Kyrie and Cooper click and some of these. other guys that they're hoping fit in and play well do. And maybe the Mavericks are, you know, in sixth place in the West. And they're like, look, man, there's real benefit from putting Cooper in particular in a

playoff situation. Let's go for it. You know, maybe they're in 11th place and it's like, hey. So we'll see how things play out. But yes, absolutely. That is what a lot of people around the league are, or, or, wondering and following. But you want to see them,

you want to see them whole to see what they look like, though. And, like, they're not whole right now. Like, unfortunately, Derek, Derek Laugley's not going to be ready for camp. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know when Jackson's rolling this out. We may have, like, a more formal update from the team by that time. Yeah, we will buy it on media day.

So this will be after that. But you have reported he won't be ready for starting camp. Yeah, and what I reported, and this is, what is this, September? 24th as we're doing this. Is his status for the start of the regular seasons to be determined? I think we can all do medical math and understand like he's probably not going to be out there for the start of the season. Now, the priority is not maximizing the number of games that he plays.

It's maximizing his chances of having a long successful career. So obviously, they're going to be patient. And it's not a setback. This is just a young guy who had two foot surgeries in 14. months. Right. So his most recent, just to get a timeline, he most recently, he had surgery in July of 25. And then again in December, like late December. Right. So he's nine months off of his most recent foot surgery. Yeah. And look, if you want to, if you want to be optimistic, there are examples of bigs who had recurring foot issues early in their careers that ended up

having long, outstanding careers. I know one of them very well, Zadryna Silgous. Zedrna Silgousis. Brooke Lopez. Brooke Lopez. You know, Joel M. Beads obviously had a lot of injury issues, but Joel and Bede's been an MVP and multi-time All-Star, All-MBA. And, you know, he basically sat out for the first few years of his career.

I'm pretty sure in both cases with Ilgouskis and Lopez, I'm pretty sure that they basically said if you break your foot again, that's it. And then they've both gone on. I mean, Elgouskas went on to play like 10, 12 more years. And I think Brooke has gone on to play like 13, 14 more years. Yeah, he's still playing. And so, look, there's no question about Lively's talent and his potential. Like, we saw it as a rookie being a major contributor in the finals.

Unfortunately, the health stuff is a huge question mark. And they are taking their time and trying to get them right. And, you know, we'll see how that goes. I'm curious to see how much Mores Johnson Jr., the guy who they picked number nine overall, who helped Dusty May, the new coach won a championship of Michigan. I'm curious

to see how much he plays at the five. Yeah, I'm curious to learn some about Dusty. We're hoping to talk to him some when we go over to Macau. His reputation is spectacular. But the NBA as a whole, as we know, is a whole

different challenge. All right, the New Orleans Pelicans finished actually tied, believe it or not, with the Mavericks last year. I think they might even have technically finished third because they had a better divisional record. Here's the thing about the Pelicans who, this is just kind of a devastating stat, okay? The Pelicans were not tanking last year because they didn't have their pick. They just stunk.

And J.B. was trying to keep their job. Let's be real. That's right. And James Barragos, who he was a very. referring to. James Barago was absolutely trying to win. He, you know, late in the season, demoted Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fears out of the starting lineup. I think Zion, too. I think Zion came off the bench some, too. That was mostly for, uh, on back to backs, right? They were trying to protect his, um, and protect him. Anyway, I'm getting to this devastating stat. Um, they,

they, they were, um, you know, not tanking. And they went nine and 45 against teams. 500 and above. That is just unfortunately not competitive. Yeah, I mean, they did have a lot of injuries, but like it's a, it's a tough suit. Jamal Mosley, you know, coming over from Orlando, did a good job of guiding the rebuild in Orlando, you know, developing some of those young guys.

he's got to do that again here but man there's a lot of there's a lot of messiness in New Orleans there's a lot of messiness with this organization and they didn't do anything they extended Sadiq Bay that was one of their big offseason moves

they didn't you know they had to swap out of the they swapped out of the eighth pick went to the Hawks didn't swap they just gave it to him you're right I'm sorry the swap I think is this year Their pick is swap this year, is my stake. McMahon, fewer things you've ever said have been more accurate than we need a swap.

What do you call it? A swapologist. But that's when it's like, well, it could be this pick or that pick, but it's a swap. I know. I don't understand it. Some of these things you're looking at the explanations. And I feel like it's, I'm reading like one of those textbooks I barely ever cracked open. Listen, I'm right with you, buddy.

Zion played 62 games last year and average 21 points shot 60% from the field was sort of backed up to that interior scoring dominance that he really gets but it didn't translate to success on the court and so obviously

they've had the opportunity to move Zion or cut him frankly because this contract is not guaranteed and they have stuck with him and stuck with him multiple organizations have stuck, multiple front offices have stuck with him. And so that, you know, he's still a cornerstone. And basically what you're trying,

what you're doing here is you are betting on, you know, the two lottery picks that they picked in 25, queen and fears taking big steps forward. That's Chabal Mosley's job is to engage those guys. Well, and Dejante Murray. Yeah, he played 14 games last season. Yeah, a full, you know, however many, year and a half, whatever it is removed from an Achilles being a real deal contributor.

But how does Murray and fears fit together plus Jordan Poole? You know, Troy Murphy actually had a very, very good. Troy. I said Troy. Troy Murphy was the old lefty. Troy Murphy and Trey Murphy. Murphy are not alike at all other than that last name. No, they're not.

Trey Murphy the 3rd, actually had a very good individual season last year. And they have brushed away many, many, many teams that have tried to trade for him. And so, you know, they're trying to win. They're trying to win now. But they're just so confident that they can run it back pretty much with the same squad you had last year. And I guess I get it. Like if you look at that roster on paper, those guys are super talented, but they have just not been able to put it together. Maybe Jamal Mosley is the guy to make that happen. We'll see. All right, the Memphis Grizzlies. McMan, I would like you to

summon all of your basketball knowledge, your sourcing, your skill, your experience. And tell me, if you have any idea who the starting five for the Memphis Grizzlies will be this year. Because I have no idea. First off, they have like 20 players. The first thing is who are like the four guys that they got a cut? Daniel Russell and three others. By the way,

did you know Daniel Russell is technically on the Memphis Grizzlies roster? Yeah, we should do a, here, actually, let's do this. Let's do a did you know that these guys are Grizzlies, okay? First off, you know, name guys. Isaiah Stewart, beef stew. They acquired in the offseason. They acquired Daniel Russell

in the off season. They successfully got a restricted offer sheet. It's rare to win a restricted offer sheet. They won one. Do you know who it was with? Yes, Quentin Perimeter. Quentin Post. Quentin Post.

Pulled them out of Golden State. Jeremy Grant, lest you forget what John Morant was true who John Morant was traded for Jeremy Graham I don't think you will be you don't think he'll start I'm putting together their starting lineup he's gonna start

I got no idea I got no idea he'll be there starting three he'll be there starting I'm not done with I'm not done with guess what he's a grizzly our hottest new game show Jordan Hawkins former was he a lottery pick of the no he was now he was in the 20s

former first round pick of the New Orleans Pelicans. Jordan Hawkins is a grizzly. We had to inform somebody on the podcast. I would say one of the great podcast moments. Actually, it was sort of not really on the podcast. It was a Hoop Collective Digital Show, but one of the great, oh, Jordan Hawkins was a lottery pick,

says Jackson, 14th pick. Kareem Lopez, where we informed, Tim on, do you know what happened with this, Michael Wright? No, I'd like to hear it. I mean, Kareem Lopez comes over to us at the draft. We have kind of like the third. There was three shows going on at the draft. There was the ABC show, you know, Reese Davis, you know, all the big guys, all the big guns, Jay Billis.

Malika was running the ESPN show. And then there was a hoop collector who ran the truck. And they would bring us, they would bring us some draft fix. It wasn't the hoop collective. it was Brian Winhurst without the hoop collective, to be clear. That's right. You were cut. Anyway, so, you know, we didn't get AJ DeBonsa, you know, even though I've known DeBonsa for years. But, okay, whatever.

We got Kareem Lopez. So Kareem Lopez comes over, and I start talking about the Grizzlies. And he's wearing a Pistons hat, right? Because he was technically drafted by the Pistons. He has gone over and sat on the couch with Lisa Salters. He has hugged the commissioner. And I'm sorry to talking about the Grizzlies. and like the second or third time we asked about the Grizzlies.

He like looks at me like, why keep asking about Memphis? And I'm like, because you're a grizzly. That's where you go, buddy. He looks at a cat, like, huh? He took his hat off. He turned it around, actually. Not only am I informing our wonderful listeners who are Grizzlies.

I apparently informed the Grizzlies's first round draft pick that he was a grizzly. That's where we're at. Karim Lopez, where did he play last year? In Australia. On Australia, right, the next star program. Yeah. Shout out to our Aussies. Chris Murray, former Portland first round pick.

You are a grizzly. I've got their starting five if you want. Well, I know one guy for sure who's going to be in their starting five. Where's number 27? Go on. Yeah. Cameron Boozer will be in their starting five to start this season and for a long time to come. He's their new franchise guy. And obviously this is all health pending.

Zach Edie will start at the five. I mean, we hope. I mean, I hope Zach has had, there's another guy with foot problems. I hope. They hope. Everybody hopes. Zach Edie, Cameron Boozer, Cedric Coward. Yeah, Cameron Boozer is going to start ahead of Jeremy Grant.

I'm sorry, Jeremy. Yeah. Cedric Howard will also start ahead of Jeremy Grant. They're really, really, really like Howard. He was their first round pick in 25. Yeah, they are very happy about that deal. Did they move up to get him if I'm not mistaken? Remember, that was a deal they made with Portland.

They moved up to 11. Portland moved down to 16 to draft Yang Hanson. Yeah, the Chinese fans are annoyed that Yang Hanson is not bigger part of the Blazers' future. Go ahead. The Blazers are annoyed that he's not better. and that they got some You know you're going to China in a week. Oh, I'm going to scratch that.

Jackson scratched that. Okay. Anyway, Senator Coward, who they are very excited about. Jalen Wells, who was a couple drafts ago, was a second round gym for them. And then at point, I'm not sure if it'll be Scotty Pippin Jr. or Ty Jerome. Honestly, man, like, listen,

are the groceries going to be good this year? No, they're not going to be. But, again, EDI's health is a huge question mark. Unfortunately, it's a lot like the situation we just discussed with Lively. Although I believe Eadies cleared, that at least was the hope when I ran in the in Summer League. But when you talk about boozer, coward, E. Wells, like, they've got young guys who have a chance to grow together. And then they're going to be a capspace team next summer. They're loaded up on picks.

They didn't get a pick for job. Obviously, that just ended up being our bad contract for your bad contract deal. But they got a ton of picks in the Jaron Jackson deal. They got even more picks in the Desmond Bain deal. And so, like, the Grizzies are a team to watch. This year is a developmental year with the young guys. And then in the summer, it's going to be, they have a chance to be very aggressive in the trade market and or look for them to be a team that tries to poach restricted free agents again.

And that's where like you have the restricted free agency thing before was like, teams like I don't even bother trying to poach other guys, whatever. But with these second aprons, there's going to be tough decisions or, you know, there's going to be talented players that move teams and restricted free agency in the years to come. Yeah, I agree with that. And you almost feel like they, really had to move on from Jai just so to Monsa Salo could have sort of like a clean slate

and a real chance to sort of implement what he's doing with these young guys. And I think it's going to be unconventional. Would you agree on that, Tim? It's going to look different. I would say he's known for being unconventional. But yeah, obviously, it was just time for Jod to get. to get a second chance somewhere else because it wasn't going to work out in Memphis and the Grizzlies needed him to be gone just to have a chance to completely turn a page.

And so begins the Camp Boosier era. So it begins. All right. Michael Wright, thank you so much for your expertise on the Southwest. This is, you know, you got to back McMahon up. You got to have McMahon's back in the Southwest. I always got his back. He knows that.

That's my guy. Yeah. He's my security because I ruffle feathers and he'll come in and I play lineback at Westex, ain't him. All right. Thank you so much to all of our producers. That mustache will scare him off. Listen, I came and grow a mustache.

Miles, Jackson, Mark, Tucker, all of our other producers, thank you for putting it together. Thank you for listening and watching the HOOP collective. We'll talk to you soon. Adios amigos.