Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Spurs Officially Contenders? Concern For OKC? - Wild Christmas Reaction

Episode Date: December 26, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to another huge win for the Spurs over the Thunder. The guys discuss if San Antonio’s 3-0 record versus the defending champs shows that the Spurs need to be taken seriously as contenders and if this highlights any issues for OKC. Plus, we break down how concerned we should be about the Lakers' defense, talk about two role players starring for the Knicks, a very strange week for Golden State with Draymond and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoot Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're even doing on Christmas evening. Joining us from San Jose, California, where his son celebrated his first birthday today.

And I'm sure we'll have great memories. His first Christmas, son ain't Jesus. Yeah, first, he is not Jesus. He is a cute baby, but he's not that cute. So first Christmas was a lot of fun. You said first birthday. It's all right. Oh, I'm sorry.

First birthday is. He's a few months, but he watched a lot of basketball. My mother, happy birthday to my mom. My mom turned 81 today. She's a Christmas baby. There you go. Happy birthday, Mary Lou. Happy birthday.

And that sound is coming from Dallas, Texas, where Mavericks fans had a tough one today. That's Pam McMahon. Howdy partners? I don't know about you, Bont Hemp, but my first Christmas not having to work a game in many, many years. Shout out to the bosses for letting me, uh, handle this one from the couch. Yeah, festive Christmas at the McMahon household. Rough one for the Mighty Mazz.

I would say rougher one even though. Up I-35 just across the Red River. Man, hey, we got to stop talking about OKC being on its own tier. That we can no longer say with a straight face. Man, I think we can just read a quote. I can just read a quote from the reigning, most valuable player in the NBA, Shegils Alexander, who said, quote,

you don't lose to a team three times in a row without them being better than you. Three times in 10 days, folks, that's a playoff series. Three times in 10 days, I end your season. That's what's fascinating about this is, it had, like, obviously, it's not playoff stakes, but there were some stakes in Vegas, and the spurs were able to pull out a wind

there tough game close game pull out a win there and shay after that game talked about it's kind of like being in school you flunk a test and you get to take a retest real soon well they flunk three tests now and these last two ones they flunked them badly right now they're flunking the course right now and look i'm not saying panic and okay student anything like that they're 26 and 5 but they're 26 and 2 against everybody else but the Spurs who their own three against. And, you know, they asked me on Get Up the day, if San Antonio had OkC's number. It's way too early for that. If they don't have their numbers, I don't know, man.

They at least give them a ton of problems. And we'll see on January 13th if OKC can figure some of those problems out. First off, let me just say this. The Spurs are only two games back in the lost column from the number one seed now. That's number one. And they got the tiebreaker. I was going to say, they clinch the tiebreaker now, for sure. You've known to play five times.

They've won three. So they're kind of a game and a half back. Now, I'm not going to sit here and talk a lot about seating. But I'm just saying in general, it's not like the Spurs are a good matchup. You know, they have a matchup advantage, but then they have trouble elsewhere. This team is hunting the best record in the league right now. Well, let's get to it. Wendy, do you have reservations for San Antonio in June?

Okay. So at the start of this, do I have reservations? No, I do not. I only have reservations in Oklahoma City. I've actually been mulling. I just watched Yokic have an absolutely gorgeous first half against the wolves. I have been mulling making them. in Denver, just not a commentary

in Oklahoma City, just because Yeah, just because I am just in awe of Yokic night in and night out more than anything. But now it's a, I mean, I'm not there yet, but it's a conversation. It's a conversation. Look, this Spurs team

is so impressive to me. And it's not just Victor. Here's the thing. If Victor was coming off the bench with a minute's restriction and they've been No, he's playing 20 minutes. He's playing 20 minutes in these games. So here's the thing.

Like, if this was just Victor being, like, putting up 40-point triple doubles where he was just doing it all himself, that would be one conversation. McMahon, you were saying this on the group text today. This is a eye-opening, not even eye-opening. It's an establishing moment for the. these perimeter players who are giving the thunder or giving the thunder hell. The thunder are the best perimeter defensive team in years. I know. They're a historically dominant defensive team, especially on the perimeter with Lou Dord,

with Alex Crusoe, with Kaysson Wallace, Jaylon was all these guys. And they just tend to suffocate smother and, as you said, bully opposing guards. These Spurs guards are completely unbothered. Dude, the Spurs, guards, and I'm talking about Deeran Fox, who, hey, that's a dude who's been an all-N-Ba player, and boy, he looked like one today. Stefan Castle, reigning rookie of the year, and man, he's taking a massive leap. And Dylan Harper, who, you know, number two overall pick and has lived up with high, these guys

had 60 points on insane efficiency today. What a 26 of 35 from the floor. And Fox, it was a great shot-making game from him. You know, three or four from three-point range, but just, I mean, dominant from the mid-range. But Castle and Harper in particular, these guys are attacking elite defenders. There was one play where Dylan Harper,

honestly kind of bullied case and walls and got to the bucket for a layup and I'm just like oh my goodness this is insane you know and that that's their third guard the way that the spurs are bullying okay C bullying them offensively and getting where they want to go and it's a bad it's guard driven that to me is what's been especially eye opening the thing that stands out about this matchup so far is that when you watch the Thunder play against basically any team, they tend to at some point in the game overwhelm them with their combination of athleticism and speed and physicality, right?

And they create these runs where they go up by 10 or 15 or 20 points. It's why a couple of weeks ago there was a stat, I believe, going into the first Spurs game where they had led by 20 minutes, 20 points for more minutes this season than they had trailed at all, right? and the thing that really stood out to me seeing this team in Vegas, the Spurs team, which we talked about at the time, and it's really, I think, carried over to these games is this team is so big physically across the board that, like you said,

McMahon, they're not bothered by the length and athleticism and speed of the thunder, and they're able to give the thunder problems at the other end in a way that no other team I've seen has been able to. Like, Shea Gilles-Alexander rarely looks uncomfortable. He almost always looks completely unbothered. He often looks uncomfortable or has looked uncomfortable playing against these guys. Yeah. And if you're a thunderpartisan, you could say, yeah, they didn't get a lot of free throws the other night.

You could say they didn't hit a lot of shots today from three. That's fine. But the bottom line is for a team that usually imposes its will on the opposition every single night, they are not able to do that right now against this Spurs team and to pull back the curtain a little bit, we were only going to do a podcast if there was some extraordinary circumstances that would require doing one today. Well, I would say that the team that we thought could win 74 games,

losing three times and 12 days to a single team, a team that, yes, we thought could easily make the playoffs this year, but certainly did not think was going to be competing for home court advantage. I wasn't sure they were making top six. I said this in the preseason. Yeah, you have. The Spurs fans were on me about that because I'm the no-sealing on Victor guy. I'm the no-single on Victor guy, and I'm still shaken by how much they've taken.

By the way, you know who doesn't, you know who didn't expect this to happen? The Spurs. Like, the Spurs did not expect to be 23 and 7. Wimby, by that. Well, we got competing discoveries here, which is hard. But they didn't expect to be 23 and 7. They didn't expect to be absolutely smacking the Thunder twice in three days, winning by 20 at home and then winning by double digits in Oklahoma City on Christmas Day.

And by the way, this is not what they expected either. The first game was, you know, the game on a neutral court, you know, was a two-point game somewhat of a toss-up. The second game is the second night of a back-to-back, you know, coming in, I think, three of the four losses that the Thunder had, one the second night of back-to-backs. Like, you know, you could slap some some asteris on those.

No, asterix on this one. Not a single one. Fully healthy. And at home, with prep time. All the motivation in the world. Like, did the spurs have their full attention and full respect? Obviously and absolutely.

And the spurs controlled this game. Just completely controlled the game. And again, with we playing 20, 26 minutes, that to me is pretty scary. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that anybody but OKC is the favorite, but you say no ceiling on Wimby. I'm going to say no ceiling on these spurs, you know, typically a team.

Maybe I need to, I need to pivot to that. Because the thing about it is their redundancy on the perimeter. You know, Derek, Deer and Fox isn't a strong defender, but obviously Castle and Harper and Harper are and even Vassell, you know, he has good size, you know, depending on the matchup. So, like, Fox had, when I think six points on Tuesday and Vassell had like 20. So at this game, Vassell is a bad shooting night. He's a non-factor offensively. Fox has 29.

And listen to Harrison Barnes has been very good for them too. He's not a guard, but I'm just saying there's another guy who. He's a perimeter player. He's a solid player. You know, he's a three-point shooter, and he's got that old man, slow-step game that he's developed as a finisher now. And, you know, the other thing where OKC overwhelms teams on a regular basis is with their depth. They just come at you in waves. And Bontemps, I know you said you weren't that impressed with the Spurs' depth, but, man, I'm telling you, they played nine dudes today outside of garbage time, and they're nine good players.

Well, look, Kelden Johnson is a starter on a lot of teams. You know, he's got, he hasn't a perfect game, but he starts for a lot of teams. Julian Champany has been a starter for the Spurs. Like, that's a, he's a start. I mean, you know, he would be a starting caliber players for sure. Yes. And so is Dylan Harper. And obviously right now, victory is coming off the bench.

He's, you know, that's not going to less. But Dylan is pretty tough when Wimby's part. But those nine guys, like assuming, you know, you know, Luke Cornett has, you know, he's, I He's a starting caliber player, too. No, I mean, that's a thing. Coming into the season, like, look, Kelton Johnson has been awesome this year. I have not at times been a huge fan of his game in the past.

He's been great for them as a veteran guy who's been through a lot of losing there. I think it's been really fun to see how into this run he's been. And there's at least once or twice a game when he makes a big play and loses his mind. And it's been cool to see. He's got a great personality. I got to know him a little bit during the 2021 Olympics where he was like a late ad. Like basically Popovich says, give me a spur that I can trust at the last minute. And his attitude on that team was infectious.

He is a great guy to have on your team. And Mike Warner will tell you, he is the vibes guy in that locker. Yeah, he's the same thing. I mean, they've called him the heart and soul of the team to me. And you can see it in the way he carries himself. And like you go through the roster, like you said, Champagne is a really nice, deaf piece. Cornette is obviously a guy who has won a title, has shown he is a guy who is a legitimate rotation player.

He, his story is remarkable. If they need to go French vanilla, they can. They can play them both together. I don't think that's going to happen a lot of nights, but they can do it. Well, and the biggest thing that's changed here is last year is Defon Castlebrun rookie a year, but was a flawed player and has made a, as you said, McMahon, a massive step forward. And Dylan Harper has walked in and been awesome from the jump. And you're talking about this team leaning on a lot of times a rookie guard, which usually

rookie guards are terrible, and a second year guard, and often second year guards aren't that good. And yes, the shot was to find Castle still an issue, but he's an unbelievable defensive player. He gets to the rim. He's become a way better decision maker, playmaking on offense. Harper, I loved Harper's games since he was at Rutgers and I watched him in person a couple times. He's awesome. And they're being tough, physical, explosive gorn. That's the thing. Coming out of that, I can't tell you how jarring it was to see the spurs in person for the first time in a long time and just to see how big they were across the board. And you can see like OKC, like I said, they play with the physicality with not having huge size with their speed and power

and some of their length on the perimeter. Guys like Caruso obviously play a lot bigger than they are. The spurs are just big everywhere. And that size, it's really worn on them in these games. And it like the fact that we're sitting here talking about the Thunder not only losing five games after being 24 and 1, but having lost three times and less than two weeks to the same team. I mean, I had a couple people in the league get me and say, this is an awesome thing for the league.

And I couldn't agree more. This is incredible for the league that we're not sitting here saying, well, the Thunder are going to walk to the title. I'm with you, McMahon. I think the idea that people are, if anybody starts saying the Thunder are like not all that good or anything like that. They're still the defending champs in 2016. And they're awesome.

But there's doubt in the equation now. And that was not the case two weeks ago. And from a neutral perspective, that's awesome. And it's got a chance to be a decade-long, awesome rivalry. And Wimby wants all the smoke and his guys are right there with him. There is damn sure zero intimidation factor. And by the way, you're booing Wimby and OKC. He loves it.

You know what, though? I'm serious about this. Mark Dagonoff very rarely asked for my advice. I'm going to give it to him for free. have Chet match up with Wimby. What I'm trying to do is get Wimby to make it as much about the one-on-one matchup as possible, maybe disrupt the rhythm of the spurs. And I'm serious about that.

Victor Wimbenyama is a pretty thought-out controlled guy. Well, you know what, though? He's not going up against Chet. He wants to destroy Chet every time they're on the court. He got that offensive foul the other day for no reason, just did a little shove on him. He took it. He got Chet on the wing today and took a really tough step back because he, like, he, the man

celebrates Chats' miss free throws. Yeah, I know. He had the mic on today and that was caught a few times. I am with McMahon. I think that it would be interesting to see if they try that how it would go because I could definitely see. And look, maybe Victor just makes 15 to 20 shots and it doesn't matter. But you might get him off his game a little bit.

One thing that the Thunder clearly were trying to do in this game, they were trying to bait Victor into offensive fouls. Yeah. And there was even one play when Kendrick Williams did get an offensive foul. It was a soft call early in the game. And Victor thought it was weak. And he basically told Kendritch like that was weak. And he kept talking to him all the way down the court.

And then a few minutes later, I don't remember. was a different forward who sort of flopped. So that's clearly what they're trying to do. I think it's also worth, I think it's also worth pointing out that for all of Victor's ethical hoops comments the other day, there was a, there's been a fair amount of, well, yes, there's a bit a fair amount of turn around his fair play with him and try to draw some fouls and some free throws over these games against the Thunder. Well, wait, She is nothing but extraordinarily complimentary of the Spur.

and has repeatedly going back to Vegas and, you know, after these last couple games, talked about how they play the right way. You know, Shea's not going to say anything that's going to fuel the rivalry, but it's also just honest analysis. Well, Shea is a great A professional.

Oh, yeah. He's, you know, he says, I'm consistent in everything I do. He's consistent. You know, regardless of the stuff people get on him about free throws, like he doesn't, you know, he plays. a pure style of basketball. And his mindset is pure.

Your team is as good and as steady as your best player. And he's as good and steady as any player in the league. I will say this. If you are a Thunder supporter, what you're saying is that the Thunder had two of their worst possible shooting games. Because the Spurr strategy is they let Victor roam. They will put him on a guy that they don't care about taking an outside shot. And then they'll let him come over and be a help defender because he can,

can cover an absolutely astounding amount of ground because of his length. He can get from basically spacing the floor, defending a floor spacer to blocking a shot and help defense. And it's like no one. But that said, they are willing to give up threes, especially corner threes. Well, and the thunder. And today, it was Caruso. Caruso missed his first nine. It ended up two a 12.

And Alex Caruso is not a good shooter. And I'm sorry, him shooting 12 threes at a game. if he does that, that's a win for the defense. He might have, if a wide open corner threes, he cannot pass up those shots. I'm not, I'm not saying, I'm not saying he should pass up shots.

But for example, if you look at the box score of this game, three players shot double figure attempts in the game for the thunder. Shea was seven for 19. It's obviously uncharacteristically poor for him, barely got over the 20 points today. Jalen Williams was five for 13. is not good enough, like he's going to have to be better against high-level teams.

And Alex Caruso had 13 shots. If House Caruso and Jaylon Williams have the same amount of shots, that's a win for the defense. That's what they're trying to do. And you have to look at the box score and say, the Spurs got what they wanted in this game. And yes, the Thunder, I'm sure, would tell me the shot quality was good on these shots. I'm not saying they shouldn't take the threes. But this has sort of been the thing with the Thunder for the last couple of years, where they are dogmatic, they do stick to what they do,

they don't really go off script at all. And if they're in a situation like this where the shots don't fall, what's the plan B? Well, I will say this. Lou Dort and Isaiah Joe are two of the best corner three-point shooters in the league. And those guys weren't the ones necessarily getting those shots. So what I would say, although Dort, I'm not sure what he'd Dord. But D' D'Rort was two for seven.

Isaiah Joe was one for two from three. The team shot 11 for 44 from 24. Case 2 Wallace has won a 4. Wallace and Cruz are going to have to make threes against this team. So I will say that the Thunder are I think seventh in the league in three point percentage. Seventh or eighth or something like that. And twice in the three games, they've shot 25% or worse on three. Today's shot 25. But I'm just, I'm not taking anything with the Spurs.

I'm just saying like, you know, that's how they. But that's how they lost to the Mavs, right? Two years ago, when they lost in the semifinals to the Mavs, that was the series. By the way, Sean Sweeney was orchestrating the Maverick's defense, who's now orchestrated the Spurs defense. Now he's orchestrating the Spurs defense. And again, if you go back and look at the shot quality, like the Thunder got good shot quality, better shot quality than the Mavs in that series.

But they didn't hit shots. and yes, like, you know, I'm as much a process over results guy as anybody, so I appreciate the Thunder's approach to that. And like, we're getting good shots. We're going to take these shots. Alex Caruso's wide open. He's got to take these shots.

I get all that. But, you know, it is going to be a question that comes up. If these teams do match up in the conference semifinals or the conference finals, and if we get into a similar situation like with the Mavs, is it going to just? be the same. We're going to get the shots. We're going to take the shots. We'll see how it goes. Or is the shot profile going to change? Is the approach going to change some? Is there going to be some attempts to do some different things? Because like, look, Che said it. Like we're talking about

three games now. Neutral site, road, home. And in the three of them, the Spurs have come out on top. And in the last two, it frankly hasn't been that competitive, especially compared to what you expect for the thunder to do. So I think all I should be on that January 13th game. And that's one of the most fascinating games remaining in the regular season. Like, okay, like I was sitting there with McMahon when Chase said that in the presser in Vegas. And we both said, hey, that's exactly what you want to hear him say. Let's see what these two games look like. And we saw what they look like. And it was not what we anticipated whatsoever. No. And the other thing with OKC is, you know, the Thunder are, they're not a bad half-court offensive team,

but they're a human half-court offensive team, right? Where the Thunder end up being ranked near the top of the offensive ratings is because they are elite at forcing turnovers and turning those into buckets. And the Spurs have not let them do that. The Spurs only committed 12 turnovers a day. And, you know, like Castle had four of those, I believe. I think three of those four probably were going to throw on the ball out of bounds, which, okay, you can live with that because you can't turn throwing the ball out of bounds into a transition bucket.

The other thing is there was at least two or three occasions where it was a live ball turnover, and the Thunder did, or I'm sorry, the Spurs did a phenomenal job of getting back in transition defense and preventing it from turning it into a wide open look or a layup. Now, I do want to just point out that in, called Defense of the Thunder, I guess, Jalen Williams is working his way back from surgery on his shooting wrist. Jalen Williams is not the guy that he is going to be in February and March and April, May, and they hope in June, right? he's he's not he's not all-n-ba jaylon Williams right now if they have that second all-m-bba creator then maybe things are a little bit different um but they ask they has dubbed the biggest

problem uh something along the lines like the biggest problem with the thunder's defense he goes or thunder's offense he said well you know there's a seven-foot-five guy out there and let me just give you a little stats william special here the thunder are putting up zero point 9.91 points per possession when Wimby's on the floor over these three games. 0.91. As good as Cornett is? Since you usually talk about per 100 possessions, that's 91 points per 100 possessions on offense. The worst offense in the league right now is like 110.

Yeah. And, you know, the thunder is somewhere like 103, lead to league by far in defense rating. As good as Cornett is, it's 125 when Wemby's not in before. The worst offense in the league right now is the Indiana Paces at 107. Yeah. Just to give you an idea what we're talking about. And again, if you want to look at this from the Spurs point of view and, you know, playing a fiesta in June,

Wimby hopefully he's not going to have a minister's restriction come play all the time. Good point. All right. I'll tell you one thing, no matter how many games the Thunder win, whether it's 70, whether it's 65, whether it's 75, whatever. this 10 days, 12 days, whatever it is, we'll hang over them. This will, you know, and that may end up being a good thing.

That may be a focusing point. But this will now, despite the fact that they've, you know, been winning at an 80% clip for two years now, despite the fact they got a banner up there, they will have to deal with this sort of barking at their tail for the rest of the season until they prove it different. from that. I will say too, it's funny. It's not a perfect comparison because of where the teams were and their life cycles compared to where the teams are now. This kind of feels like the reverse of Spurs

Thunder in 2016, which is a series I covered in the playoffs and a matchup that I saw throughout the year where that Spurs team was still, it was like the dying embers of those Tim Duncan's last year. They still had, they had, you know, Marcus Aldridge, Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker. They won 67 games. Mono was still on the team. They're chasing down the Warriors the whole year. It was everybody thought it was going to be Warriors Thunder or Warrior Spurs in the conference finals. And the Thunder had like, this was like prime Kevin Durant, which is why it's not the same

thing. But that was a team that was like physically overwhelming in a way I've maybe never seen a team otherwise. And they physically overwhelmed that Warriors team that year. And they physically overwhelmed that Spurs team and beating them in the conference semifinals. This kind of feels the same way. where like, I don't know if the spurs are going to win that series or if the spurs would get by, say, Yokic or get by the Rockets or whoever.

But like this matchup and the way the two teams line up, it is a very interesting stylistic clash. And it's now on OKC to figure out a way to do something about it. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Speaking of the Rockets, they never really sweat today. in L.A., blew the Lakers out. The Lakers have now lost three in a row, four out of seven. Their defense in this stretch has been at the bottom three in the league, but also their offense, I think they failed to crack 100 in two of the last three games.

Austin Reeves, after coming back from the calf injury, re-aggravated it, and he's going to have an MRI on Friday. That's not a good sign. But more than anything, the Lakers, again, are showing them. themselves to be a team that is struggles defensively because it's the nature of their team. They don't have good defensive players. And then any time the ball's in the open court, their athleticism gap is glaring as it was against the rockets. They're effort gap.

They're a bad energy team. Well, and JJ Redick has been all, J.J. Reddick has been ripping his team for a week. Yeah. How about how about this quote? Well, there's, I mean, two partial. Quotes, Reddit, quote, we don't care enough right now. Reddit, quote, I'm not doing another 53 games like this. Here's a full quote.

Why the team couldn't execute the assignments. This is from our internal transcription service. Quote, because we don't care enough right now. And that's the part that bothers you a lot. We don't care enough to do the things that are necessary. We don't care enough to be a professional. This is, I always say about culture. I always say this about a good team being a functioning organism.

It can change like that. We don't have it right now. That's one of several just napalm quotes from JJ Redick after this game. You know, in Don Nelson's thing was a coach has about six bullets to fire in terms of ripping his team publicly per year. He's used him up before the new year. Well, and the problem for the Lakers, and this is the thing we've talked about a lot.

Yes, their record is now, I believe, 19 and 10. The underlying numbers have been very average, and in particular, the defensive numbers have been very bad. That's right. And as JJ Reddick has himself said repeatedly, the Lakers do not have high-level defensive talent. So if they're going to succeed on the defensive end against high-level teams, they have to play really hard, be really connected,

do everything at a really high level to make up for not having good defensive players because they really don't have any good defensive players. The Lakers are not going to be a good defensive team this. year. They're not going to be a good defensive team until they have a 30. And that's the, but that's how they're going to be, you know, exactly, but that's how they could be an okay defensive team. And if they don't play like that, they don't have a really good chance to beat any good team, which is why they got rolled today and why they, they've struggled with, say, Phoenix, who's young and athletic and flies around and. Yeah. DeAndre, DeAndre

played 36 minutes today, got two rebounds. I mean, listen, DeAndre. The Rockets had 48 rebounds. The Lakers said 25. Yeah. DeAndre Aidan is not the answer. They don't have the kind of three and D talent. You have to have to compliment Luca. I think what the Lakers have is a tandem and Lucan and Austin Rees that

if healthy. And LeBron. No, because I'm talking long term. A tandem and Luca Donchich and Austin Rees that if healthy, they have they're going to have plenty of offensive firepower. They've got to surround those guys with length. athleticism, enough shooting, you know, a rim runner, but they've got to have three defense first guys and start in line up with him.

And LeBron James, as he's about a term 41, ain't a defense first or a defense often guy anymore. Here's another quote, improving execution without many practices. Quote, oh, we practice them all the time. It's not. Again, it goes back to what I said the other night. It's a matter of making the choice. And too often, we have guys that don't want to make that choice. and it's pretty consistent who those guys are.

And so Saturday's practice, I told the guys, it's going to be uncomfortable. The meeting is going to be uncomfortable. I'm not doing another 53 games like this. To your point, McMahon, they are 19 and 10, and we're doing this, 29 games into the season. And this is, as Brian's head, several times now where JJ has done some version of this. That has a shelf life of some guy. He said it as a guy on his run.

I don't, I'm sure the sleuths have figured out who, he was talking about, but a couple days ago he said that he had a guy on his team that didn't know what the flood, what the flood was, a flood, you know, a term of, of, you know, a tactical term. And, you know, he's basically calling one of his players dumb, frankly. So, you know, everything about JJ. But he's not paying attention in game planning and film studying and scound report and all that kind of stuff. Either way. call one of the other way. I would just say that one of the things about JJ is he tends to seethe. Yeah. We saw that from his first, you know, I think he's a very tactically strong coach. He's an incredibly smart guy.

Yeah, but he has a tendency to seethe, and it shows. You know, he sometimes would seethe on first take, right? You know, you'd see him, you know, get under, you know, Stephen A. Or Mad Dog would get under his skin. and he would seethe on there. So that's like, you know, we all have our character traits. We all have pluses and minuses.

This is one of the things that he's going to deal with is that he lets it come out a little bit. He gets a little bit loose. And so, I don't know, I suspect when he gets to be a more veteran coach, he won't let that happen. But occasionally. I don't know if he wants to be a more veteran coach.

He says he wants to be a more game to this. That's a good point. My point is, you know, there are times when you, when his youth and his way he looks at the game are benefits, and there are times when you feel as an experience. And I feel like this week has been one of them. I've got a solution. They can trade for a perennial all-defensive big man.

Give the Mavericks a call. You know, make it a three-way call because the Mavs have two GMs. Give them a call. Hey, we want AD back. Now, I'm not sure about 80s hell. You got hurt today. There's the little thing that he's extension eligible this offseason, but bring AD back to L.A. Just don't have them play center.

By the way, the Rockets kind of needed that win. They've kind of been up and down, McMahon. They've been down lately. They've had two terrible losses in New Orleans. Lost four out of five coming into this game. They really needed to have that kind of performance. Nice win for them. Yeah.

All right. The first game out, Nick's, Knicks Cavs, Cows played 36 pretty good minutes. I'll say that. They played 24 excellent minutes. They had a great first quarter. They had a great third quarter. They had a rough second quarter.

They had a rough fourth quarter. And, you know, the game came down to the end. And Tyler Colick and Mitchell Robinson won the game. Tyler Colick. An emerging cult hero. And then the blocks. swipe. Did they officially go down as a block, I believe, on... They call... Courtney Kirkland said on the review was a block, so I believe it was a block.

Where was the review? Because he was called for a foul originally. And then postgame, he basically said, yeah, Donovan was trying to do something crazy, cranking up for a window or whatever it was. He's like, if it's gone in for layup, no way I could get it. Tyler Colick's going to... There's going to be a lot of folks who like him in New York, that's for sure. You know, it's funny about that is that Donovan was caught on the mic. all the big stars wore the mics today Donovan was caught on the mic he dunked in the first half I think it was an alley-up dunk and he got he got caught on the mic

saying that he hadn't dunked in like a couple of months but he only dunked because his fiancee was there and he was trying to impress her she was sitting in the front row I think her name's Coco Jones so I have that right Jackson

Yeah that's celebrity bigger deal than Donovan Yeah, so, you know, it's just funny that Colac called him out on that. Like, you know, Donovan, by the way, had 34 and a 15 in the fourth quarter. But, you know, as much as this is about Colick, Brunson made some big shots down the stretch as he always does. Huge. Yep. And Mitchell Robinson, like in the fourth quarter, the Cavs couldn't get a rebound that mattered.

And Mitchell Robinson, this is the thing about the Cavs. Like, it's gotten me to the point this year where I've been looking up boxout statistics because I sometimes watch Cavs games and they just go through whole quarters and they just don't box out. And this goes back years with Jared Allen and Mitchell Robinson. Like Jared Allen has been abused by Mitchell Robinson repeatedly, including in that five-game loss a couple of years ago.

And that was certainly the case down the stretch in this game today. He's in good company because Victor Wimbunyama was abused by Mitchell Robbins. No, for sure. For sure. Mitchell Robinson is an absolute monster on the offensive glass. That's true. And on the defining play of the game, basically the play that settled the game, Carl Towns, who by the way, shout out to Kat, he got engaged on Christmas. He apparently after the game went to the top of the Empire State Building and got engaged to Jordan Woods.

Oh, good for Kat. Yeah, congrats to Kat. But he basically sealed the game on a putback. It was a very athletic putback. But Evan Mobley, I mean, I don't want to say it was like a. Of the egregious non-boxouts in the fourth quarter, it was not one of them. But Carl Towns flew past Evan Mobley on a vital moment and got to put back. Do you think if the Knicks don't pull off the comeback and they lose that game,

Kat's got to find another day to get engaged, right? I'm sure that it was all like they looked like there were photographers. I know, I know. You can't do it off a loss. Maybe it doesn't get announced on social media today. but I think it happens today. I think it happens today. Well, and Cavs Corner, I think, can be somewhat encouraged by the events of the past few days.

Nice win on Monday. Nice win on Tuesday. Darius Scarlet had 20 and 10. Darius Scarlin was put together like four or five better games in the last two weeks. Yeah, they've played better. They beat pretty soundly beat the Hornets and Pelicans earlier this week. And again, they had stretches of this game where they played quite well. They were in control of large stretches of the game.

the game, but that's a tough one to let's slip away. More than anything, they're three-point shooting since Sam Mitchell came back. He's been back for three, Sam Merrill. Sam Mitchell was not available. Actually, Sam Mitchell is available, but not available on the Cal's roster. Merrill missed some open looks on Christmas, but since he's come back, their floor stretching has been much better. Yes, and Mowgli came back after like 12 days, maybe 13 days from the,

calf injury, which, by the way, I've got a calf strain right now. I can't believe that. I injured my calf this week. I'm doing treatment with it. I know. It's afflicting everybody involved. Is it your soleus? It's on the high right side.

Oh, no. No, the soleus is down low. No, it's high. It's a high calf strain. My feelings, I think, is safe. Knock on wood. My God, that's a terrible thing to even read us say. Good win for the next.

The Cavs now go to Houston and San Antonio. Caves Corner will be active in the next week. We'll see if this last. But Moby did go six of eight with nine rebounds. He could have gotten some more in the fourth quarter. And Tyler Colick is the hottest role player since Jeremy Lynn in... He's going to get some endorsement deals, watch. Yeah, I also like they talked a little bit of trash today.

I really hadn't heard him interviewed before. That's related. And I liked that. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right, before we go, and we're giving short shrift to the Nuggets and Wolves, because we started before the game was over. Well, Joker's got a 32-point triple-double, and the third quarter ain't over. I see.

Well, that doesn't surprise me. As they're down three starters and up double figures. Bontems, you went to a Warriors practice this week, and it was an interesting one. They bounced back today, and, you know, you know, Cooper Flagg had a really good first. Christmas Day game. But the Warriors... Completed a 3-0 homestand, the Warriors.

Yeah. You... A finally great-o homestan. Even though Steph wasn't really good today by his standards, but their bench was really good. But you went to a four-year's practice this week and walked right into a little firestorm.

Yeah. Obviously, everybody listening, I think, is aware of what happened on Monday when Steve Kerr and Draymond Green had their latest dust up on the bench. And Draymond Green decided to just... leave and go to the locker room.

Steve Kern, what I would call a pretty masterful PR job to move the story forward and end it. I took all the blame, essentially, for this happening and said it was his fault for things escalating and that he should have read the situation better. And he and Draymond apologized to each other and apologized to the team and they moved forward and went on and on about, you know, how important Draymond is and how he, his you know, his number one goal is for Draymond to retire as a warrior and to spend his whole career there, which I thought was noteworthy given 24 hours later. They were about to play a guy in Clay Thompson, who obviously did not do that.

And as Big Man and Anthony Slater wrote recently, you know, is there's still a lot of, I'd say there's less hard feelings than there was at one point. But certainly there's disappointment, I think, that they're not all playing in the same place now. And Kurt said, you know, Kurt said today that he. he regrets that Clay left. Yes. And it was, and Steve also said, very frankly and flatly, that, quote, we are a fading dynasty. We know that and everyone knows that, which was both a true statement and as someone who spent time living here.

Does that qualify as the quiet part out loud? Is that what you say about that? Yes, I would say it's exactly what it was. But it was also still a fascinating thing to. here in a press conference on the day before Christmas in front of a handful of people. And I think more than anything to me listening to it, I think it's just a pretty clear recognition and admission of where this whole thing sits. And this isn't the last dance, which Steve Kerr lived through 27 years ago,

in that this team is all but certainly not going to win a title, barring some crazy trade in the next couple of months, which I would be very surprised that the Warriors make a trade like the Jimmy Butler trade again of some kind this year. They might add to this team, but I would be surprised if they add another star, is my point. I wonder what Jonathan Camingo was thinking

when Steve Kerr was saying was much his bad. Well, his bad. But it doesn't have quite the same equity in the... I understand. I understand. But if you go back and if you go back and like, we all watch the last dance, And that whole season from start to finish, everybody involved knew where things were headed.

Yeah. Right. And like from the beginning, it's pretty much said, yeah, we're all going to be done after this year. And back in 2018 at Media Day, Steve Kerr got up on the podium and essentially said, we all know Kevin Durant's leaving in eight months. And we're just going to play this year out and have fun and see where it goes. and we're not going to spend every day breaking it down and discussing it. And this felt a lot like that in the sense that this whole thing feels like it's kind of held together with duct tape and bail and wire.

And you've got Draymond late in his career. You've got Steve Kerr, whose contract is up at the end of the year. We'll see what his future is going to be. like it just feels like the end is coming quickly for this iteration of the Warriors, which is one of the most defining teams and fascinating teams in the history of the league. And all of that was just on display in this 15-minute Steve Kerr press conference on Christmas Eve in front of, like I said, a half a dozen people in the Warriors interview room. And, oh, by the way, if they are going to pull off some, you know, out of the blue blockbuster trade, Draymond Green's probably getting shipped out.

Now, I agree with you that that's not a high probability situation, but just looking at the roster, looking at the salaries. Well, it's comminga. That's the guy that they would, they've set up to be trading. It's going to be a blockbuster trade. You can need more than that's out. I agree. Well, Ford Blockbuster is different. I would just say this. If they're going to make a big salary trade, there are two ways to do it. If they're trading for Janus or AD or one of these kind of guy.

I would just say this. Having, you know, just today. I haven't watched the Nuggets second half, but I know what the Nuggets got, even with Cam Johnson now being out four to six weeks, at least. He had a knee injury the other day. But I know what the Nuggets got. I'm watching the Spurs before our eyes. We know what the Thunder have.

The Rockets. You know what the rockets have. Yeah. I mean, we talked about the Lakers are flawed. They're still way ahead of the Warriors and the standings. Let's just be honest. Like, the Fading Dynasty thing is like, I couldn't have said it better. Yeah.

You know, they're not, the warriors are not a theft. And look, the way they finished last season, Steph gets, you know, hurt in the playoff series against the wolves. You say to yourself, well, who knows if Seth doesn't get hurt? Maybe they're in the conference finals. There's none of that mojo is carried over. That's all gone. There was some reason for optimism and excitement because of the 22 and 5 record with Jimmy and Steph in the starting line together. That looks more like fools gold than any sort of sign of things to come.

Obviously, they haven't followed up on that. And Steph is still an elite player. Jimmy's still a very good player. But as you said, in the Western Conference right now, the biggest question in terms of where the Warriors are, will they host a play-in game? Well, and they, look, they've had very high moments. You know, they beat the spurs twice in a row at home. They've had some other really good wins this year.

Even the win over Orlando the other day. Orlando's a very good team. They also, on the other hand, have lost to Milwaukee without Janus, to Indiana without most of their guys. Like, they've had some really desultory losses. They've had some nice wins. Like, it's all been very up and down. And, like, look, do you?

Could I see a world where they have a second half somewhat similar to what they did last year and they get on a role and play well? I don't think it's impossible. But are you asking me, do I think they're a realistic threat to contend with the Thunder and these other teams in the top four in the West? No, I don't. I think they're in the same realm as the Lakers. And they're not bad teams, but they're also not contending teams. And by the way, you're not picking them to beat the wolves if they run them in a game. No, no, I'm not.

Yeah, the wolves have actually, they're losing right now, but they've played pretty well for the last three. They've played better. So, yeah. So like it's, you know, there's obviously going to be a ton of interest in them for many reasons. And like you said, McMahon, there's going to be very interesting decisions to be made both at the trade deadline. And I think especially this summer coming up because let's say they don't make any big trades between now in February 5th, which I think is the most likely outcome if they're in the same boat. then you've got a lot of expiring contracts and draft picks and young players to throw into different trades and that's when you get to interesting discussions about what happens with the roster. And oh, by the way, again, I will remind everyone the head coach does not have a contract after this season and has said he's going to play it out and decide what he's going to do.

So there's a whole lot that's sitting out there unresolved and it's going to stay unresolved from now until April or May, wherever this thing ends, and then we'll see where it goes from there. All right. That's, we'll call it a Christmas. And it sounds like, it sounds like Dorian is in need of his father. He's had enough. No, he's had enough. He heard the podcast is ending, and now, you know, you're not. old daddy's coming back.

All right. Thank you to Jackson for working late on Christmas. Thank you to McMahon and Bontems. Thank you for spending some of your Christmas weekend with us. We will talk to you next week. Adios megos.