Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - The 2026 NBA Media Day Reaction Special: Lakers, Knicks, 76ers, Spurs, Thunder and More!

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN reporters checking in from Media Day around the league. Tim McMahon, Dave McMenamin, Vince Goodwill, Jamal Collier, Eric Woodyard, Ben Golliver, Anthony Slater, and Michael C. Wright join the show with the latest from the Lakers, Clippers, Thunder, Spurs, Knicks, 76ers, Warriors, Timberwolves and Pistons. What are the biggest questions facing each team as training camp begins? They break down the storylines and early expectations across the NBA. Melbourne Show Link: Brian Windhorst and Tim MacMahon Special Live Podcast  TIMECODES: 00:00 Intro 01:08 76ers Media Day Reactions 06:55 How LeBron is assimilating in Philadelphia 15:00 How will the 76ers deploy their talent this year? 18:45 Vibes exceedingly high for the Lakers today 32:25 Bronny's quotes about LeBron leaving 35:20 Windy Storytime: Bronny's name origins 40:20 Exciting summer coming to a close for the Knicks 41:15 Major contract negotiations ongoing with NY 55:10 Assessing vibes with new pieces in Minnesota 1:08:40 Bad news days continue for the Clippers 1:24:15 Evaluating Kawhi's fit with the Raptors 1:30:20 Not a lot of love in the air for Pistons 1:44:30 Breaking down state of the Warriors 2:00:25 Thunder dealing with departure of key teammates 2:16:13 Interesting quotes from Spurs about their starting 5 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Discover Coffee Plus on Nispresso.com. Welcome to Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing all day and night on Monday, the annual marathon Media Day podcast. Joining me from Oklahoma City is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. Good to be back in Bricktown. It's been about four months. Oh, yeah.

It's been a while. You visiting one of your local watering holes while you're there? No, I'm resting up. trying to get to bed early and, you know, do what I can to prevent jet lag from smacking me right in the face on Thursday morning. It's not going to work. Yep, McMahon Jackson and I are off, and I are off Tuesday night to Australia. I think this podcast we're about to listen to is going to be so long. It's going to carry us half the way there because we got about half the league where we had folks joining us from today, including joining us from Philadelphia.

where he was at the 24th LeBron James Media Day. Dave McMinn. There's probably only 23, right? I don't think they did one. Maybe only 22. Lockout season and coming off the bubble probably cut them out. They certainly had a media day coming off lockout season. Off the bubble, I don't think it was a media day.

It was probably virtual. Okay. All right. I'll give you it. You're fact checking me? I am. Sometimes it's important. Ask Sasha Khan.

Oh. So, what was the last time you think Sasha Khan's name was said on ESPN? That's great. It could have been the first by you. So McMahon, last week, we were running a highlight package on NBA Today of LeBron highlights. And there was this one legendary pass where just like a no-look pass that he throws to Ante Zizich. And I was watching the play live and commenting over. Oh, you were with me, McMahon.

I was with me. I didn't know. I didn't realize. I said, shout out to Sasha Khan. who was, you know, the fourth big man on the 2016 team. And Dave, who covered the calves in those years, corrected me and said it was not Sosh. It was Ante Zizich. So with apologies to Ante, I was wrong.

So let it. I was hoping that America wasn't going to learn about that. Sorry, Brad. That's what you have me on here for. Yeah. Have you ever done a Sixers Media Day in your hometown? I haven't. That's the first.

and it was a lot going on. You're in the middle of talking to, obviously, the big name players here being Jilline Brown, LeBron, Tari's Maxie, and Joel and B, and then you see 7-foot-7 Taco fall walk by holding a tray of food. You're like, yeah, there's just like a lot going on today. And the vibes were high. I think Tyrese Maxi, I haven't spent a ton of time around him, but I under all of the superlatives that LeBron has attached to him in recent years, particularly talking

about his decision, go to Philadelphia. That guy is a breath of fresh air. He just exudes joy. What a great guy to be around. Joelle and Bede said all the right things. LeBron said all the right things. Jalen Brown made sure that he was going to sidestep any sort of question about an alpha or the pecking order of this team and try to keep things.

He's a veteran of those types of queries. Yeah. And, you know, it's a group. I found it notable. I'm not going to overstate how big this little nugget was. But I got to the facility this morning. I was talking to one of the coaches. And I'm like, oh, you got in a good sweat.

You getting on the treadmill or whatever? He's like, I don't know. We should have a workout on the court. Oh, okay. He was working out. I'm thinking the young guys, right? Nope. LeBron.

Joel and Bede, Tyrus Maxie, Jalen Brown, together on the court, four-person workout ahead of training camp starting on Tuesday. To me, that was notable. Ahead of media day. Not just ahead of training camp, ahead of media day. By the way, Joel and Bede looks pretty sleek. He does. I mean, as sleek as he's been since very early in his career, at least, which, listen, if they're going to play fast, he's, he had to, he's going to have to, be slimmed down to keep up.

And I don't know if the weights on the roster don't necessarily mean anything. I don't know if his weight on the roster has changed, but his weight in reality is like he's dropped significant pounds. By the way, as a quick aside, Dave, I want to report to you that Luca might be in better shape this year than he was last year. Huh. That's a great sign for the Lakers. That's fantastic.

I do think Lucas is as lean as he's been since his rookie year. Luca, I think, was listed 218 as his rookie year probably was legitimately like 2.30-ish. And he looks like he's in about that range now. Well, we'll see if he has the lift, right? Because back when you covered him early on his career, he was playing above the rim a bunch. 25 months this rookie year. Over seven and a half this year and when deals me dinner? That's a huge development.

And obviously it looked like it from the film and photos I've seen. but it's one thing for a guy like Luca last summer to go on this regimented diet and workout plan in order to get a contract extension. But if he's in better shape now than he was last summer to secure that bag, that's a great sign for the Lakers. I'm just going to tell you, we'll do the Lakers in a minute. Everything about Luca was, his aura was great today. Luca was in a spectacular mood, very happy. We'll talk about that a little bit.

Luke also could have showed up to sign his extension, double fisting Steins of beer, weighing 320 and still would have gotten it, but go on. That's true. LeBron was in a good mood too, Dave. It seemed like from what I saw it today. Yeah, he was fully engaged, fully turned on the charm for members of the Philadelphia press. And it was a pretty significant media throng that showed up. And the Sixers were one of those teams that has a handful of traveling beatwriters,

which has become rare and rare these days in the NBA. But beyond that, there's always a very big local television presence in Philadelphia. And LeBron spoke for about 20 minutes fielding questions at his initial press conference, cracking jokes. Certainly going back to some of the things Brian and I, we've heard over and over the years, even getting back to the reason why he said that trust the process line at the FanEx Fest and everybody thought it was a clue for the Sixers, his line is trust the process everybody wants instant oatmeal it doesn't work that way he dropped that line today everybody wants instant oatmeal it doesn't work that way uh and overall his message is that

we know there's going to be a ton of noise this is actually interesting he did it both on his podcast with steve nash and he did it again today he's like i know i bring about a lot of noise and he also said i don't know i'm not for everybody he said in his conversations with tyrice maxi he's like yeah maybe I could be a negative for a team if they're not ready for it and it was actually very instrumental in his decision to come to Philadelphia because Tyrese views him as someone as a net positive and wanted him there but LeBron acknowledged that there is this whole machine around him and it is the job of him to get in the ears of his new teammates and shut out all that noise and get the work done knowing that it will be adversity along the way. Well, listen, I've long described it as the grand bargain that you make with LeBron, that, you know, there's going to be a lot of extra attention. Some of it is naturally going to be negative, whether that's fair or not.

There's going to be passive-aggressive stuff. You're going to have to deal with social media stuff occasionally. There's going to be times where he wants the roster changed, not that he's ever been a guy to, like, you know, pound the door. But there's, you know, there's times when he doesn't like the coach and all these things. but the output on the floor is always been worth it, always, always, usually in the multiplication of what the downside is. And now in Philly, at $4 million, you can recompute that bargain even at age 41. So I would agree with that comment that LeBron is at some stage, especially this part of his

career, not for everyone. But the balance on the ledger has always been on the, positive on the pro side. There are cons and there's going to be, when you have LeBron your team, you may have a bad couple of days. You may have a little extra stress. You may lose a little extra sleep. You may have a little bit of more indigestion. But he has delivered a lot of gold, a lot of silver, and a lot of cash for two plus decades, two and a half decades now. And won Brod's in 2004. actually 2006 world championships I you think he doesn't know where that I mean I'm sure he does know where um the 2004 bronze medal is I assure you he probably doesn't know where the 2006 world

championships bronze is that one may indeed be at the bottom of a lake in Akron yeah but uh anyway that that was next to a bunch of Wendy's golf balls um and the bronze golf golf balls. Bronny said that he beat LeBron in golf. Don't let me forget, Jackson, don't let me forget the interesting interaction when Brani was asked today about LeBron telling me he was going to Philly. I don't want to, I don't want to, that's just a little tease, hang on the puck. I like that. But, you know, I've worked up. I agree with everything you said. And there's no question. Bronn has always, honestly, every contract LeBron has ever signed has been a bargain, much less this minimum contract. but he's right about the there ain't no instant oatmeal in the NBA and that's why it is a very encouraging thing that these guys are all you know they're working out together before media day they and there's an understanding of hey there's a lot to figure out and it's not you know jaylon brown is is smarter of no it's not who they're going to declare to be the alpha but it's how all their games are going to blend together and flow together how

how they're going to be able to enhance each other and not have to feel like, okay, it's Joel's turn to get a touch. We've got to get them a touch. Slow down everybody. Man, Jatham Brown, it's his turn now. Instead of that might turn his turn, that guy's turn his turn. They've got to figure out how they are going to play together.

The good news is, like the basketball IQ, LeBron, is off the charts there and the rest of those guys are all, I think, qualifies as smart players, if not the, you know, just genius level IQ that he is. So, Dave, you talked to LeBron today about what would have happened had there been a different champion. And, okay, my memory is failing. I don't remember him talking in what ifs like this. It's also a fascinating one-if. So. I mean, it pays to listen to Rich Falls podcast.

because he'll put out some material that you can follow up with with his marquee client. And Rich suggested over the summer as much that there would be no big whiteboard that he was going to refer to with Max Keller and had the Knicks lost to the spurs or not even made the finals. And so I followed up on that and I was like, you know, how accurate was that? And what was it like seeing that option closed if that was accurate? it and yeah he copped to it he didn't just say he wanted to go for the next he said he envisioned the end of his career playing out with game after game at madd's for garden which he considers his favorite arena to play in and the best arena to play in the world for a basketball player now he'll still obviously get to go there more often as a member of the sixers than he did playing including opening

night including opening night that's going to be a spicy one as if it wasn't already but what a sliding doors moment and of course nix fans are going to be happy for forever and the weight of that 2026 championship will be with them in their hearts and their basketball fandom forever. But it is interesting to consider that maybe had they not won that thing, you would have been having LeBron with this team and maybe that team goes to win a couple. You don't know. This team could win a couple without them.

The one thing we know, you think LeBron brings a circus with them to. Cleveland, to Philly, to Miami, even L.A. Could you imagine in New York? I did love, though, speaking to Rich Paul's podcast, I'm paraphrasing here, but the quote where it's

like, I had five teams on my list. I know y'all might have seen my podcast with the whiteboards. I love them. I love them. Let's be clear. I love them. That guy, Rich had, okay, and the Northwest Division here, I mean, yeah. I still, my favorite thing from that podcast was the reference to the Mavericks, which, spoiler, they weren't one of the five teams.

And as they're building around a 19-year-old, I don't think 41-year-old, the brawl was the top of their list either. But it said, it said, oil, Macau, Gulf, Africa. It's like, I love it. It's like Maxi, Brown, Embed, Edgegum, or Oil, Macau, Golf, Africa. Which one? Hey, listen, I want to see Uncle Dennis's notes heading into Kauai's free agency. Ritz, penthouse, private jet. Ownership steak.

Carbon, tree planting carbon credits, insurance. BS deals. LED scoreboard. Now that would be some good stuff. We could get that. No, listen, no more. We're moving on. Kawai's out.

That's right. Very politely. Moving on. We can't, whoa, let's not, let's not worry about that franchise. Hey, blaming Rick. Respect his wishes. Respect his wishes. Dave, I think one of the guys who's got a really hard job this year is Nick Nurse.

The fact that these, you know, that Embed and. Maxie and Jalen, you know, LeBron said with Steve Nash that he's worked out with, he had worked out pre before training camp with him a handful of times, Jalen Brown. They're obviously really trying to, they're best in trying to make this work. But ultimately, this is going to be largely on Nick Nurse to figure out how to make this work. And Nick is a guy who has had a lot of success in sort of making different styles, different players, different schemes work. But this is going to be a challenge. So, you know, there's got to be some. time. We're going to, you know, it's a challenge to the Philadelphia media to give time here,

Dave, as you know. But, you know, there's going to be a lot of pressure on Nick as well. And speaking to Nick over the years, one of the things he prides himself in his kind of basketball upbringing is being a coach overseas and you don't know what players you're going to have any given night being coach in the G league and having maybe your best player being called up to play for the varsity club, so to speak, and you're left with like that scene in Apollo 13 where, you know, you have a cardboard tube and some paper clips and what can you do to fix the whole last minute when all the stakes are highest. And so I think it appeals to him, knowing that side of him, it appeals to him, the challenge of almost having too much talent. To me, a challenge that

we're going to learn about as this thing goes forward is joel and bead uh it seems like we'll be unlikely to play back to backs we'll see where lebron stands obviously he claims that he feels great his body feels great but will they really push the the pedal to the metal and try to have him play back to backs if both those guys don't play it you're going to have to be working on like two vastly different looking lineups uh all the time which those guys in with those guys out. Yeah, which he is unfortunately accustomed to doing because of the Embed thing and because of Paul George's in and out of the lineup.

I mean, you know, they're a time. They basically had three different versions of the Sixers. The fully healthy version, which was the least seen. The Embed's in, Paul George is out. And then the Paul George is in and beads out. But they, and that's why there was never any kind of continuity that they were really able to develop. with the Sixers. And that's the thing.

It's like, it's not just that you want Embed healthy because obviously you want that guy on the floor, but for them to work through these things and develop any kind of chemistry or continuity, he can't get a 40-game season out of Embed. Yeah. Now, going to a quick interjection here, Brian, going in his favor, though, is like, we were like an hour into this thing, having listened to all of these players come up to the podium. and up comes Dean Wade and

Amphrey Simons. Like, and I mean, this team has a ton of talent. You know, meanwhile, I saw some photos out of Golden State. Like, their big new face is George Nyeg. Think about all that for the all-time great. I love George Nyeg. Don't you go pose at the minivan. What wonderful quote and a really effective player's

but a lot of really good teams. But he has been a new face. At one time, had the best winning percentage in the 2020s. I don't think that's still the case. So there you go. So that was not a shot. I thought you renamed him the G-Wagon, McMahon. I didn't.

Darius Garland did, though. Oh, I see. He's back to minivan pricing, though. All right. Yeah. He's on the minimum now. Okay. So switching gears to the Lakers, Dave.

Let me educate you about the Lakers. I know you don't know much about him. So vibes very high in Elso Gundo today, Dave. Yeah, Dave's gone. which, you know, I think I had to ask some questions about LeBron, but like it was acknowledged and you can just tell the organization, not in a bad way. The organization is the page is turned.

And Luca made it very clear that he was a big fan of Walker Kessler's in the process that he wanted him really bad. I asked Walker, I go, did you know? Like Luke really wanted to play with you. I think it was probably because he was available. It wasn't like, I think Luca, you know, was like made it a mission of his life to get Walker. But of the players available, of the centers available, there's only a couple. Yeah.

He really liked Walker. And look, look, let's just be real. The Lakers tried to acquire Walker Kessler on several different occasions. Oh, yeah. Dating back years. And they weren't able to get them because they weren't willing to pay the price. And the jazz asked, I think, for more now than they had ever asked for before. The Lakers said yes.

Yeah. And I think the reason is because they knew how badly Luca wanted him. Well, and they knew that it was kind of an now or never thing for the Lakers because this was the one summer that they had that kind of financial flexibility. You know, so you had to do it with Austin Reeves getting his payday. You had to do it now. Now maybe they could have done something via the trade market. But in terms of a sign and trade type of deal, sign in a center, this was their one swing. and they had promised Luca, this is the summer that we're going to get you.

That rim protecting, rim running, pick and roll partner, big man, and they did it. So I will say this. A lot of people are talking about the trip over to Slovenia that the Lakers made, talking about how they had bowling contests and rowing. They had a rowing contest. Austin Reeves made a joke that said his team won the rowing contest, but Luca claimed victory. I don't know if there was a referee. that was involved or Luca had comments, I don't know.

If there was a referee, Luca would have thrown him in the water. Probably. Oston or Luca announced that he had beaten Austin at golf. Okay. In the last couple of days. That's surprising. I had to, I felt nobody in this vaunted Lakers Media Corps that Dave is, you know, senior member of.

No follow-ups were asked. Dave, I felt that I felt that. Did you get an exclusive? Absolutely. I had to get to the bottom of this because I've seen Austin play golf. I have not seen Luca. Yeah, Austin is like supposed to be one of the best NBA golf. Yes, he's a scratch player.

Okay. So I had to, I had to step in and do some freaking reporting here. So I spoke to Austin in a one-on-one. I said, Austin, whoa, buddy. Let's find out what happened here. And it turned out that, yes, Luca beat him with. the handicap and that Austin gave Luca 23 shots. 23.

How did they get to that number? LeBron's gone in honor of LeBron. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. But I will say this that Luca and you know this, Dave. I was just sort of, you know, coming in. Boy are Austin and Luca boys.

Oh, yeah. They're freaking frack. Which, you know, let's be honest. like if you're playing the sport where you've got to share the ball, it helps to have that. And look, here's the thing. I said to Austin, I go, Austin, I got great news and troubling news. I said the great news that you're a max player.

The troubling news is that everybody knows it. And so you're going to, people are going to hold you to different standard. He goes, yeah, I'm aware. I understand that. But he's like, I talk to Luca, you know, before I. did this. And, you know, I, he's like, I could have gone elsewhere, but I wanted to be with Luca. And like, that sounds like, look, of course, people at Media Day are going to say these types of things. Well, I mean, actions over words. He did it. Yes. So I just think, I think they're

in a great space. I think Luca is very excited about Walker Custer. I don't have any idea how many games are going to win. Okay. So here's what I wanted to ask Luca, because here's the thing. Dave, I can't ask Luca about a contract. He's under contract for two more years. I'm not going to ask him on Media Day about his contract. I'm not going to get a good answer. So let me tell you what I did. I said to him because he needs to,

at the conclusion of this season, he will have one year left. This is extension zone. And I'm going to tell you, the Lakers organization is very cognizant that they need to be in a good place with Luca at the end of the season so they can get him extended. There's a lot of different goals for the Lakers season.

This is not number one. but the organization is aware, which is one of the reasons why they felt, I think, the need to make sure they went out and got him a set. So what I decided to do, Dave, there's the process here, was this was the question I was going to ask. I wanted to ask him what he would make this season of success, right? Because if he thought the leg was moving forward to success, I think he would be more likely to assign. So I said to him, what would make this season of success? And I will tell you that last week when J.J. Reddick, I think you were at the J.J. Reddick press conference. I was.

When Rob Polinkas said we're on the path to a championship, which I think was a responsible answer. And JJ basically went over the top and said we can win the championship this year. Well, here comes Luca. I said, what defines success this year? And honestly, I didn't have an expectation for his answer. Dave, I just wanted to see how he answered it. And so he said, my expectation is we win a championship. He's like, this is what we're doing here.

So I was like, okay, listen, I'm going to give most people a pass on that answer on Media Day because everybody says it on Media Day. But you, Luca, have been to the finals. You have won a European championship, which one of the great accomplishments of his career. You know, he won the Euro League when he was with Real Madrid. But Slovenia won the Euro basket with Luca on the team. Slovenia winning Eurobasket is... It's like Idaho winning a national tournament. It's...

Like the Browns being two and one. You're not far off. You're not far off. Everybody's two and one. What's the Eagles record? Two and oh. They play tonight. Chicago.

All right. Cowboys ain't two and one. That was a tough one, McMahon. I'm not going to lie to you. It was pretty hilarious. That flight back from Rio. That short trip. Yeah.

Anyway, I said, I'm not, you know, I said, with all due respect, I'm not going to give you a pass just saying that. And he's like, if I don't believe it, who will? So. Good answer. Yes. And I look, regardless of whether the Lakers have a real chance or not, I think it goes to where Luca is, you know, he is in a very good mental place. How long will he stay there? Can I just tell you a little secret?

Luca gave the same answer every year. He was with a Maverick. after his rookie year. Listen, man, that's fine. But, but like, part of it is, Luca has never lacked confidence. He's a supremely confident gentleman. And, you know, he said that throughout the year the Mavericks made a finalist run, that, by the way, they had to win three road playoff series to get to.

So I think he genuinely believes it. it's just not a real departure for him in terms of mindset. That's fine. Listen, I'm not expecting him to say, hey, we're going to go 41 and 41. I'm just report. That's what I asked him. This is what he said. Well, and look.

The Lakers, Tim, go for it. I was going to say, Luca is at the intersection of age and kind of talent slash status to where the lack of a championship becomes kind of weight. You know, like this is his ninth season. He's been around for a while. Yeah. And it's a credit to him, but like a perennial MVP candidate who hasn't won a championship yet, it's, you know, it becomes a thing. Especially when some of his peers in age, Shea, as won MVP's and a championship, Victor got to the NBA finals in the time since Luke was last there.

His former teammate just won a finals MVP in a championship. By the way, another guy he had a really good relationship with, as he did with Kyrie sharing the ball. Great point. One thing I'll say, though, the way the Lakers have built this team, Rob Polinka in particular, he has empowered Luca to be a partner, in essence, in team construction. And so one would hope that he is going to then expouse the merits of this group

and see the pie in the sky version of what they're capable of accomplishing because he had input in the decisions they were making, principally the decision to put all those assets towards Walker Kessler. Now, I mean, I think the real pushback, I don't not be spurting you for not asking it, but the real pushback is how are you going to get through potentially both San Antonio and Oklahoma City, when Oklahoma City was hobbled last year and swept you? I know he wasn't on the court either, but, I mean, that's, They basically have two NBA finals to get through just to get the NBA finals. The bar in the West is so high because those two, and it's not just this year, but it's this year and for, I mean, however long, they're able to keep those cores together.

One thing I'll say about one thing I want to add about Slovenia that I thought, so basically what happened here, Luca realized LeBron was not there. He needed to take another step as a leader. And so he wanted to spend time with his teammates, but he needed to be in. Slovenia because he wanted to see his daughters. That's just a whole other thing. He was wearing a bracelet that his older daughter made for him. That was nice. And so I, you know, he, what he did was is that he basically ran an event that was like a European

national team training camp. When the European national teams get together, they totally go into a bunker together. All meals are together. all free time is together. Like other than like sleeping, the guys spend the time together. Like, I hear about the Serbians. Like before like the World Cup or like the Olympics, the Serbians like, quote, go into the mountains. I don't even know what that means.

I just know that they go into the mountains and they stay up there and like bunk and like barracks and like, you know, eat, you know, roots and stuff like that. And they come, you know, they train like Rocky and they come down out of the mountains. Yeah. They definitely drink rackia. Roots. Yeah. I don't know. Whatever.

This is how Luca wanted this. Luca wanted, he didn't want this to be like where a team is in Miami. And yeah, they get together for a workout and they may have a team dinner and then everybody goes to their different clubs or whatever. Luca wanted all of them together. And so all the meals were together. Breakfast together. Lunch together. Okay, dinner is fine.

He wanted all these events outside. all these events altogether. And what made him happy was that when there was like on day three or something, like a block of like, you know, five hours, which was like for a nap or whatever, the guys stayed together. Yeah. Now, you could say that in Lubiana, there wasn't like there was some other place they were going to go. It's not like Miami or there's all these other places, but it's not that there's no place

to go. It's just they wouldn't know them. But this was, you know, Luca wanted everybody to see who he is. and where he came from and what his makeup is from. But they basically ran, you know, look, and it was like four days. It wasn't, you know, four weeks. But they basically ran the way a European team would run a training camp.

And that's what they did. And one reason why Luca loves playing for the Slovenian national team every year is because you just get to be with the boys. Like, you know, and it's like when they're not playing basketball, they're hanging out. they're playing cards. They're playing ping pong. By the way,

Luke will also tell you he's like the best ping pong player in the world. But I buy that. Yeah, it's almost like in a way, remember Luca left home when he was 13. So it's almost like these are times for him to get to experience the joy of adolescence. But this is what this is like it's a whole lot of new people.

He is, you know, for the first time in his career, would say. He's the unquestioned leader of a team and maybe equipped to be that, which I don't think he was early in his career. And so,

you know, it's on him to make sure they're forming those kind of bonds. All right. Before we move on, because we're kind of right out of time, I do want to say about Brony. Thank you. The T's. I was going to bring it back up. Yes. So Brony was asked, as you remember,

when LeBron talked about making his decision to go to Philadelphia, he said he wanted to have his family's blessing or something along those lines. And so Brony was asked whether or not that included him. Did he get your blessing to go to Philly and leave your team, basically? And so I am going to quote Brony specifically about what he said to that. Brony James, quote, we're men of very little words when it comes to talking about business and what we're going to do and how we feel about each other. So there wasn't really much to be honest with you. He's got his own

path and I've got my own path. He knows I want to make a name for myself and I want to continue my career and keep growing as a player. And he knows I want to focus on that. So he decided to do that. I'm excited to see him on Christmas. I'm excited to play against him on Christmas. So that's going to be good. And so he said something interesting. And, and, you know, I haven't been around all kinds of brawny interviews, Dave. So maybe Bronny has said this many times. But he said to me, you guys know me as brawny. My real name is LeBron. I've been doing this for however long. So I think a motivating factor for me is getting up every day and trying to prove myself as brawny instead of LeBron. Wow. He's shared a sim.

similar sentiment to the second part of that story you told us. But the first one, that's fascinating. We're men of very few words when it comes to business. And that's just a really interesting look into the dynamic that they share because I saw them, their relationship to me as an observer has always felt like so close between the father and son, it's almost like big brother or little brother. And I find it to be a beautiful relationship. But I guess they're all. are some lines that they don't really bring that same closeness to. Yeah. I'll never forget.

I've told the story before. Well, let's just make this story time presented by SoFi. Get your money right. The night Bronny was the day, night, whatever, Brani was born when LeBrona had to leave training camp. They, you know, he had to talk. You know, it wasn't known at the time. He wanted to keep it quiet.

It was literally a different era. and I asked him what he was going to name his son. And he said he was going to name him after himself, which he obviously, he later said he regrets it, which is why he goes by Brani and not by LeBron, because he doesn't want him to carry his name. But he said that the reason, this was the night Brony was born, LeBron was 19 or 20. This is a completely different era of their lives. I'm not saying this is the way he feels today. I'm just telling you what he said in that moment.

He said that, I'm named him. him after myself. He asked me not to say it. He asked me not to reveal that, which I didn't for days. And he said, the reason that I want to name him after me is that I always want to know that I have the responsibility to take care of him because my father didn't take care of me. And that if he has my name, it's my responsibility to make sure that my name, you know, that he respects the name and carries the name on. Which I think looking back on it for someone 19 or 20, years old to say that is pretty powerful. He ended up, again, not wanting that. He, you know, years later said he wished he wouldn't have him, LeBron. But, you know, LeBron was still working out

the fact that he didn't have his father in his life when he was that age. So regardless of all that, you know, I think LeBronie and Bronny and Bron coming in together is one of the coolest moments I've seen in my 24-ish years covering the NBA. So that they're apart now is, you know, it's fine. It's it's a step forward, but it is interesting window into their relationship, Dave. Yeah, I mean, it's cool of that game against Minnesota was for the pomp and circumstance of it and the Griffey's together to witness it. To me, it was last year in the playoffs in Houston where father and son combined for a 10-0 run for the team. Like, that's both scoring five points. Like, that's some crazy stuff.

And I think Brownie's done a lot of work from what I've seen and from the people I've spoken to within the organization to stand in his own two legs as an NBA player. But that's got to continue in year three and, you know, if he wants there to be year four, et cetera. And LeBron's decision here does guarantee a completely new experience for his son in the NBA to not be there literally in his father's shadow. And so that's, it sounds like, you know, Brani without making it seem like he has any sort of, I guess tension between him and his father. It's him endorsing LeBron's move to Philly. And, you know,

Bronny obviously is born into a life of great privilege, but also a ton of pressure. Even there's never been a second round pick, a late second round pick with the kind of scrutiny that he came in a league with. And he hasn't acted like a kid who's had a silver spoon his whole life. Like, I give him credit. He has done everything.

thing that you're supposed to do as a late second round pick trying to carve out a career. You want me to go to the G League? I'll go to the G League. I'll play well in the G League. He's trying to carve out a career as a role player, as a hard-nosed, defensive-minded role player. And again, look, you can say his dad got drafted or whatever. LeBron's not going to keep him in the league, and he's just got a chance to carve out a nice

careers as a reserve role player. Listen, man, this last week, all of the NBA teams announce all of their staff and front office changes who got hired, who got promoted. You know, oh, no, there is a ton of sons. Of sons and daughters, but a lot of sons. I mean, I would almost say, it's probably not every team, but I'll bet it's almost every team. has and by the way i'm not i bet you we can find the son of some of an established NBA figure on every single staff i would i agree i agree like even somewhere within the front office or

exactly yeah so any room on up that's why i always say it's one of my conceits i always say dave you've probably heard me say this i know McMahon is i always say what's the biggest day in the NBA and people see you know they give all these great answers finals opening day christmas day draft day, lottery day, blah, blah, blah. And I go, no, Father's Day. I thought you're going to say, what I always say, we're all going to be working for Dean Winhorse someday. I'll be retired by then, I hope.

All right, thank you very much, Dave. Enjoy your hometown of Philly while you're out there helping you. Appreciate. Good to see you. Now joining us from New York, where he was at the World Champion New York Knicks Media Day today in Westchester, which they're still buzz into Westchester, Vince Goodwell. What up, though, Wendy? Absolutely not.

I would normally say go blue, but I've got to be quiet on that one. You got to admit that was an incredible pass by the Iowa quarterback. Sure. It was an incredible pass by the Iowa quarterback. And that terrible third and 12 penalty of the personal foul nature. I'm very upset about that. You know what they say about karma? Hey, and Jackson, he brought up Michigan.

I didn't bring up anything. So the thing that I wanted to note, look, I know they won the championship. Jalen Brunson just hosted Saturday Night Live. You know, I'm a big believer in celebrating your championship. But I was at the Lakers Media Day today. I am going to have broken news. You were going to break news to me about what Carl Towns said about his contract situation today. I mean, it wasn't so much what he said, like this full-throated defense of himself,

but he said, I would like to get my contract done. He said, I would like to stay in New York for the rest of my career. And then he kind of ended it. And because of the way the Knicks operator, it wasn't like you had space for a follow-up. Of course, right? Shocker. And then someone else thinks Ian Begley asked him about, you know, are you okay with playing this out through the season? Or do you want to table contract talks?

And he basically said, everybody's going to be a little uncomfortable around here. And I was like, okay, I like that. I like that. Because if nothing else, there's one thing you always say, one of the championship means you never have to apologize for it. But the other thing usually is, Wendy, you win a championship.

If you sacrifice and everything else, normally you wind up getting rewarded in some way on the back end of that. Like that becomes this thing. Like even Oklahoma City, as cash strapped as they appear to be or market size strap as they appear to be, they got three max guys,

right? For sure. The New York Knicks can't afford to have a second max guy or somebody in that second max program when you waited 53 years to win a championship. And we know Jalen Brunton is going to get every dollar afforded to him next summer or if he waits two summers from now. But Carl Anthony Towns, he can't get his money. And it doesn't seem like to me, Wendy, that whatever the Knicks offer is,

that it has budgeted at all. This is the number we have budgeted. We're not going further than this. We got to keep everybody under the second apron. And you're putting the responsibility on the players, and the players have already done what they need to do, which is win a championship. Yeah, and look, I think I kind of like Carl saying

everybody's going to have to be uncomfortable because he ain't talking about himself. He wants the Knicks to be uncomfortable. He wants people like you to talk about, hey, I mean, this position that they're taking on the second apron as the champions in New York City is unreasonable. Like, whether you believe it or not,

You know, just because the second apron exists doesn't mean that the players should have a cap on what they can earn. That's not a hard salary cap. And, you know, that being discussed while the Knicks are doing their title defense, like, it's Carl's right to talk about it. And look, this is professional sports. Everybody knows what everybody else's money is. It's just, that's the way it is. That's the nature of the game. and the Knicks have played the game very well.

They've conquered the game. But now they have to live with this side of it. Okay, Josh Hart, also up for a contract extension, also comes without a contract. What about him? He was a little more elaborative, and he was, dare we say, a little more vulnerable talking about this.

And I asked him the question, like, hey, considering what you give to the game, you know, fingers, playing through injuries and everything else. What is this process like for you? And he basically said, you know, it doesn't look like we're going to get an extension done. It hasn't really been any movement in the conversations.

You want to have something there. You want to feel comfortable. You don't want to have to worry about all the noise from the outside. He said some people, it can affect them. It can affect them because of what's going on with their families, their own performances. It can affect their performances. And he was talking about that in more of a granular space.

of second aprons and eight champions in eight different years and what the Knicks are going to be trying to do this year. Like he was very realistic and sober saying this is a business, but also saying, hey, this is what you guys have asked us to do and we want to come in and defend this championship and we want to be comfortable while defending this championship. And it seems like everything is being done to ensure that the Knicks are not comfortable within their own locker room in defending this championship. And Wendy, I don't know if you've seen it. Storms are brewing around the Eastern Conference. You don't have time to mess around in October with all of this type of stuff.

Games, home court advantage, all those things could be decided in October, Wendy, if somebody falls behind and has a slow start. So vibe check what on the team? I mean, funny thing is, Wendy, and I'm not saying this a conspiracy, but I'm saying when Josh Hart was being asked the question about how this could potentially affect the team's move, in their play, the electricity went out at the next facility. Literally. It went out. Internet, out, lights, out, cameras out. I'm not saying anything happened. I'm not saying anything nefarious went on. I just felt like it was a fitting end to media day. Carl was a little more dower,

I will say. Josh was a little more pragmatic. And when the contract talk wasn't the talk, it was about defending a championship and saying, hey, we have the confidence. We're not happy that Mitchell Robinson isn't here, but we feel like we have the confidence, the sweat equity, blah, blah, blah, all the things that most champions say on the first day of training camp. So I did see what coach Mike Brown, championship coach Mike Brown, that's his name going forward. Yes, it is.

He got asked about the second apron. And look, I don't know if he was advised on how to answer this. question because you know these guys get media training they get prepped and stuff like that i do not know if he got that but whether or not he came up with this answer or whether or not he was advised on this answer whether it was him or some advisor it's a great answer could you tell us what he said when he got asked about jim dolan's edict because he's up this a prickly question right because he's being asked about his boss he didn't even got his ring yet like his ring is you know in the is on the way it's in the mail. He got asked about his boss, frankly, being cheap. Can you imagine if I walked up to you and

said, Vince, how do you feel with the cameras on? How about you feel about your boss being cheap? Your thoughts? So he got asked a prickly question about Jim Dolan's reluctance to go into the second apron, and I loved his answer. I will give you the exact quote. I'm pulling my phone up on my story. He says, on my grand kid, I couldn't. You couldn't ask me to give three facts or two facts about the second apron. I can't do it. I have no interest in it. It is what it is. Leon trust me with the stuff on the court and I trust him with that stuff. The other thing he says is this. And this is a question I asked him. I say, hey, you've been in situations where players have been uncomfortable with their contract situations. Kevin Durand and Golden State with Mike Brown was an assistant

there, you know, towards the back end of that situation. He said, the first thing we try to talk about is everything. We don't want to leave any elephants in the room. They'll figure it out. And we can control what we can control. Can you imagine how big that elephant is in that next locker one? How loud that elephant is? Yeah, this is why I say. It's all about the vibes. It's a vibe check in a lot of ways. Doesn't, look, by the way, vibes on Media Day don't get you anything. But they tell you a lot about the team. But I love that answer from Mike. I respect the way he handled that. Now, Jalen, I'm sure, was all business. I did see some of his quotes. The laughs are over. Yeah, you know, Jalen's going to always say the right things. And I asked him, does he look at this as

defending a championship or going after a championship again? You know, there's like subtleties and feeling like someone has to take something from you or that you have to go after and get it again. And he said something interesting, at least on his face where he talked about wanting to evaluate after the first month or so to see. and see where the team is and they're sort of going from there. But knowing that because the way the Knicks call us last year, sort of a buildup, a buildup, a buildup, and then boom, they started blowing everybody away.

Like there's a belief that the way that they do things, they know that they can pull that lever. They know that they can reach that. The problem is just going to be, can they all do that again? Will the circumstances present themselves that that happens? I don't know if the circumstances will present itself, but I do know that this, Wendy, when you win a championship,

You become an arrogant bunch of dudes. I don't remember a champion, even amongst these eight, that have won and didn't have like this aura and this air of arrogance and cockiness the very next year. I'm most like, we're going to win this game before we even walk into the building. We're winning this game before you walk into the garden. Like, you're just not going to win and compete with us on this night. I'm very curious if the Knicks adopt that sort of confidence. It seems like they will. It feels like they will. But I want to see how it looks and how it manifests itself, especially in this New Eastern Conference. So do I. I am genuinely, you know, look, I won't be honest with you. I am not super into media days. I totally understand their importance to get people excited. The thing about it is in my 24th season, I just know how long the year is. And I just can't, I just know. media day is a trap.

You know, training camp is a trap. There's going to be a lot of things said and written and done in the next two, three weeks that are going to look foolish. But I'm genuinely like, man, I do not know how this these. I think I might ask you this, but I'm going to ask you again, name me the teams that you feel strongly are definitely going to be in the top six in the Eastern Conference. Like, definitely a top six team.

How many? Maybe New York and Philly. I don't even have Philly on there. And that's not an insult to them. That's a concept with the rest of the league. Because I don't know how Philly is going to be. I don't know about their health. Probably, I mean, probably Cleveland, probably Philly.

But that's what I'm saying. Like, when did you ever said that? What have you ever said that? How many teams do you think can look in the mirror and say, we have a chance to win the Eastern Conference? We have, you know, we can win 12 playoff games in the East. Oh, I'm sure Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Indiana, Cleveland, Miami, maybe Detroit, if they get their act together.

I just named seven teams without blinking. What about Toronto? What about Toronto? Eight. And half of those teams won't even make the second round. That's what I'm saying. So, like, you know, I am, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say I'm sitting here on the balls of my feet with goosebumps. but I embrace the fact that we have unknowns, you know?

I embraced the fact that for the first time, I've been covering the lead for, let's just say, around about 17 years. I'm embracing the fact that there are so many compelling stories before 10 p.m. Compelling games before the West Coast slate begins. Because that means we can go to sleep at a reasonable hour if we so choose to.

Now, this, of course, you know, Stephen Curry and Golden State and Luca and L.A. and everything. It's not poo-poo in the Western Conference. You know, I'm not saying that at all. But this is the first time. Probably would you say, Wendy, in at least two and a half decades, at least since the tail end, if not even before that, of the Michael Jordan era, where we're looking at the Eastern Conference and we're saying, not only is this the stronger conference at the top, but top to bottom, there's far more championship contenders. I want to believe that. I want to believe that, but I've also seen years where we've said, boy, the East,

I mean, never like this, but boy, the East is going to be great this year. And then it's a wet fart. I mean, not that there's not a few teams that are always good, but I mean, I would just like to see a little bit before I say that. But, you know, absolutely. But having said that, I'm here on the West Coast. Come on out. We'll be on NBA today tomorrow. Come on out.

I look forward to seeing you. I will be in the aura of Wendy. I can't wait. You can check out our new digs at the NFL headquarters, the NFL network headquarters. I mean... I hear it's pretty nice. It's better than we're used to being treated.

No offense to our colleagues elsewhere, but the NFL has it nice. I'll just leave it like that. You're going to be on in the morning with me too, right? I'll be on the morning, yeah. Unless this agent who just texts me has wants a meeting, which might be the case. So, yes, now I'll be with you in the morning.

Should be fun. Look, I'm actually, I'm, don't get me wrong, I'm still wearing last season. I still feel like this is an extension of the 25, 26 season. But at some point, I will, I will get some excitement about this coming season. I'm just beat right now. But when this season starts, you know, October 20th is not that far away, Wendy. that's three, like we're going to have three weeks of training camp and teams are going to be ready to hit the ground running. I'm curious to see who has the sweat equity to start this season. That's going to get up to a four or five game lead or just get up to have some breathing room in this Eastern Conference.

Because I'm telling you, man, the start is going to decide a lot in terms of playoffs evening. You're exactly correct. That is very good insight. And not all these teams are going to get off to good starts. No, they can't. All right, I'll see you tomorrow. Thank you very much. See you tomorrow, buddy. Trade ice skating at Nathan Phillips Square for ice cubes in your umbrella drink.

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Okay, now joined from Minneapolis by Jamal Collier. How's it going, Jamal? Doing well, Brian. How you doing? You were with the wolves at their Media Day today. Did you miss being in Milwaukee? Did you see Tyler Hero got to ask the question about the Avengers? I did not. That wasn't your question. It's a long time for us not to be at Bucks Media Day.

they're going to be calling to get back soon. Yeah, I'll bet. You were with the wolves where Lamello Ball with his first media day in Minneapolis. Beyond that, what was your takeaways from being there? Good vibes. That was the question. It's media day, right? Everybody's got, not everybody.

Not always. I've been at some media days where there's been some non-good vibes, but it's a good box to check. Yeah, a lot of that around the league, people not showing up or being injured already, right? And the wolves have got a healthy roster. They've got a new look roster. It's all optimism. It's all, you know, good feelings of how it's going to work. You know, the team took a trip to Paris over the summer.

Anytime you had a nice little Paris vacation over the summer, you come in feeling good, nice and refreshed. into the season, which was just a team bonding trip with some new pieces being added to this team, just a new dynamic after being really big the last few years of going back to the Carlin Towns team, going to Julius Randall and really pivoting off Randall and Nas Reed to add Lamello, Cominga, and just kind of being, I think, a little more wing-focused. But the big one is Lamello. and Anthony Edwards reiterated, repeated at least four to five times during his media day session, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy.

Well, that's what they set out to do at the start of the summer. It's more important to be happy at the end, but it's a good place to start being happy at the beginning. Exactly. And one thing he was excited about, I think, was also being, you know, he was asked to do the point guard role for a lot of last season to handle a lot of playmaking duties. And that's, he's going to certainly have with Lamello on the floor a lot less on his plate there. And he seemed like he just was looking forward to that. And the wolves seem to recognize they got to find a way to get some easier shots, easier looks, and take stuff off his plate. So box is being checked.

Everybody's happy so far up here in Mitty. There was so many times where he was frustrated. Look, the last time we saw him on a basketball court, he was shaking the hands of the opposition with, what was? it like five-ish minutes left in game five against the spurs, I think it was. Less than ideal, let's put it that way. And so if I said to you at that moment, if I was a Wolves fan and you saw him basically waving the white flag and all the frustration he had with the double teams and everything last year, and then you fast forwarded to this and him saying over and over, I'm happy,

you would have said that it was a good summer. Ultimately, it has to be a good winter and spring. But I guess if that's the goal to keep your superstar happy, that's a good place to start. Yeah. And just a new energy with this team as well. Like him and Lamello, same draft class, obviously same. It's a younger team now. The wolves have made a couple of deep playoff runs and have been on this kind of precipice for the last few

seasons, but even the young guys they have, they've got like, you know, all them have three, four, five years. You could think a guy like Iyo who sort of adds, it was here last, you know, in the second half of last year, but you're bringing him in for a full season on a new deal. You know, comminga, mellow, like, again, you just have, I think, a lot of youthful energy. Rudy, Rudy Gobera joked that sometimes the group chat is a little bit too popping, and he has to mute the chat because he's sick of all notifications. And, you know, this is a team that also-

Yeah, exactly. We don't take offense to it. It's a team that recognized that they're up in a conference with San Antonio and OKC. And Tim Connolly said it, like, we have to find, you know, ways to get better. We know the competition in the West is tough. And, you know, while keeping the core of the team together with Rudy and Jaden McDaniels and Aunt, you just had to find, they had to find, they had to find, find ways to try to maximize their ceiling, you know, to try to do something different, basically, for a team that they felt like I kind of ran up against it. And that's, that's really what I think this move was about. And I think why they have some renewed optimism coming into this year is just like, okay, we, you know, we know the task ahead of us. We know the two juggernauts, so to speak, that might have be forming in the West. But, you know, we feel like kind of moving our pieces around a little bit, while keeping hopefully the same tempos of what they have, they feel good about potentially taking a step forward.

Yeah, look, so here's the thing. So Lamello was the franchise player in Charlotte. And, you know, I would say kind of rightly so. I mean, early in his career, he was the best thing they had seen there in a while. Then the injuries, you know, kind of knocked him off track. And then, you know, Con Canuple arrived. Brandon Miller arrived. and it's sort of changed there a little bit.

So he's not going to be the franchise player in Minnesota, but if he makes the franchise player happy and keeps the franchise player happy, then he will be well taken care of. He will benefit, and he will be well taken care of. So I'm often accused of being a little bit too focused on contracts, but trust me, players think about it all the time, and I'll just point out that Lamello is up for an extension after this season.

He has two years left on his deal after this, so it's not pressing. But, you know, if you want to get paid as a player, look, Charlotte decided they didn't want to pay him. Okay. Charlotte decided, and you can say whether this is right or wrong, they said, we think his value is higher now than it's been in a couple years. We're going to trade him. We're going to dump him. And not dump, let me take that back. That sounds like it's negative. We're going to move him now because we think now is his value. So it was basically them saying, you know, we're not sure that his value can get better than this. And look, his job is to keep aunt happy, the franchise player happy, and then his value will

be high. Let's just be honest. That's, that's the goal. Yeah, I asked him as well, too, was he surprised, just that Charlotte moved him at this particular moment and, you know, classic lamella fashion. He says, I don't really do surprise us, which I'm not really sure how to take He doesn't like surprises. They surprised him with the clown. You know the clown video? I don't, which one is this? Tell me this story. Oh, my God. It's one of the, it's what's one of the hardest videos I've ever laughed at social media of NBA teams in my career. Like two, three years ago, Jackson, you know I'm talking about with the Lamello clown video? Yeah, the Hornets posted it.

Yeah, it was like a Halloween thing. I think he was walking to the practice court, basically. And they had a, like a pennywise style clown. You know, I. like a scary clown, like, to surprise him. And he turns the corner and sees this clown, and he absolutely, just surprise. Let's just say he's more than surprised. He screams. And then,

just the memory makes me cackle. He slaps it across the face. Because he's so scared by it. So say whatever he wants about not being surprised. The man can be surprised. I'm not sure he slapped. anybody or screamed. There's a metaphor for the trade in there somewhere.

Look, if I were him, I would be thrilled with the idea of being able to play alongside Aunt. I really think they're going to highlight each other, you know, for as much as Lamello and staying on the floor is obviously the big thing for him. But like, Anne was very excited to get off the ball. The wolves, you know, everybody talks about playing fast and running again at this time of the year. Yeah.

Well, everybody runs in September. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it's a team that I think has needed different dynamics offensively as sort of a different, a different way than sort of just dribbling the ball up the court, walking the ball up the court, right? With Ants initiating a lot as opposed to last year. And, you know, everybody says it, but with a guy like Lamello and his passing ability, it's actually an attainable goal, I think, for this team. And, you know, I think, as you said, both of them had the ability. and with Lamello to A, prove that he can be a sort of serious player, a serious, you know, contender

and the ecosystem that the wolves have around him, I think, has got a chance to really benefit because so far everybody there is really kind of embracing him with, you know, arms wide open. All right, let me ask you one more thing before you can leave and get away from this. Tim Connolly, their president, general manager, I never know the titles. he spoke to the media today. It's kind of unusual for the GM to speak on Media Day now. I think some of them do a lot of them beforehand. And he talked about how happy he was in Minnesota, et cetera, et cetera.

But he's on the last year of his contract. On this podcast, no other podcast, of course. On this podcast, Jamal, we talk about actions over words. If he was so happy in Minnesota, I promise they want to keep him. He would not be going into last year of his contract. contract. So what did you make of what he said today? He mentioned the fact that he's had other opportunities as well and that, you know, still has remained in Minnesota to this point. You know, it was an interesting dance where he didn't really want to talk about it, but sort of addressed it.

As you said, just that doubled down on I'm happy here and I'm glad of what we're building here. But as you said, it's one of those, he also acknowledged the fact that normally his contract details are not out and he's not sort of used to answering it for himself. I agree. It is unusual for there to be analysis of a general manager's contract. But what does that say? That's a compliment to him that people like me make it our business to find out what his contract is. As far as executives around the league, you know, almost goes without saying. but one of the most respected and one of the people who, you know, teams see the way he's been able to take swings and build and rebuild and keep his wools. You know, build them up, going back to Denver as well, build both these teams up, have a hand in it. You know, so I think there would be no shortage, obviously, if this thing cannot work out.

And, you know, of him, interest around the league for him, but I did make, there was an interesting dance for him, especially with the swings that they took. I mean, they've been taking swings, like you said, the last three or four years anyway, but even this off season, if they cannot find a way to retain him and keep him around going forward. Well, we've talked about some of the podcast before. I'll just bring it up really quick. Connolly has a very unique contract. He gets a bonus at the end of his deal, which has one year left,

that represents a piece of the value of the franchise. He doesn't actually have equity. But whatever the franchise is worth, he gets a bonus, okay? And the franchise value was $1.5 billion. Okay. And from what I understand, Jamal, that was going to get him a eight-figure bonus at the end of the contract. The team just resold for $4.5 billion. So, you know, I can even do this.

math, it's tripled. You know, so it, you know, whatever it was, I think it was in the teens of millions, it's tripled now. So not only does he have this potential free agency, but he's going to get a giant check at the end of it. So I don't blame him for keeping his options open. So I'll just, you know, I don't, I'm not insinuating anything. he obviously did a really good job this summer. He's got his franchise player doing backflips. Yeah. So the way these teams are selling, though, Brian,

hey, maybe it'll sell again. He's going out for that. I can't even, I can't even deny that. All right, Jamal, thank you for reporting in. We'll see you down the line. Always got to talk to you. Okay, I was over with the Lakers today. Everybody feeling happy, not a lot going on.

But just a few miles away over, at the Intuit Dome, my colleague and making his debut appearance on the Hoop Collective, who lives here in Los Angeles, Ben, Gulliver. Ben, thanks so much for coming on. Oh, it's my pleasure, Brian. You know, long time, first time, as they say. You know, I don't know what to make of the Clippers. I will just say that for a long time, I really thought the Clippers were a smart organization. I say smart. Like, they just did things kind of, they did things well. And I'm no longer in that camp.

So with that, he went to the Clippers today probably to get a reaction, a formal reaction to the big penalty that was handed down. And instead, you got one long line of injury updates. So why don't we start right there and you can just go through them because they're remarkable. Yeah, no, it was just bad news after bad news after bad news. I think for Clippers fans, you feel for them because they're already, you know, it's like you're kicking them while they're down because they've been dealing with this Quiet Leonard investigation and all the sanctions and all the statements from Steve Balmer. you know, are they going to challenge things legally, are they not? And then you hope you could just have a basketball press conference at Media Day. And unfortunately, that wasn't the case. So Brandon Ingram, the All-Star Ford, they got back in the Kwai Leonard trade with the Toronto Raptors.

It turns out the heel surgery he had in May, they discovered while doing that surgery, he had a partially torn Achilles. So they were able to address it during that surgery. But now he's obviously out for a while. They didn't give an exact timeline. But he's not not going to be ready to start the season. And he said he'll be participating a little bit in training camp. He's been back on the court just a little bit, but certainly not a full go in training camp. And so that's one where who knows how long that will linger, you know, during a rebuilding season for the Clippers. You know, from there, there are 2023. Hold on that. I'm sorry. I know I asked you to go through them. The way this sort of came out today on social media, and it wasn't implied in

your story, but the Clippers knew when they made the trade that Brandon Ingram, was recovering from partial torn Achilles. They didn't, they didn't discover it after the trade. So when they negotiated that trade, as far as I know, unless you know differently, Ben, the Raptors said what the injury was. And even as they waited through the Kauai situation for six weeks or however long it was, they knew they were trading for a player that was recovering from a partially tornikilis. Is that correct?

That is correct. But the Raptors never publicly disclosed this information. So it was a surprise to everybody like us and everybody on Media Day, the jaws were dropping because, you know, he's out there taking his photos. You know, he's posing with the basketball flexing, you know, doing all the things you do. And then, you know, Trent Redden, who is now the interim president of basketball operations, kind of kicks things off with this, you know, this tough break. So we don't know when Brandon Ingram will be back. I will say, Brian, he would say good spirits about everything. You know, it's what a messy summer for him.

Multiple months waiting and waiting and he's in limbo. Oh, is Kauai going to get, you know, his contract voided? Will that impact Brandon Ingram? I thought he put on a brave face, a smiling face to join the Clippers. And so that's, you know, something maybe better late than never for Clippers fans when he shows up. Well, let me ask you this. Was it your impression that they didn't, like, they discovered it when they actually did the surgery, that they didn't know when they opened up his heel?

They didn't know it was torn? It sounded like they discovered it and addressed it during that one. surgery. Okay, so imagine you wake up from a surgery and there's like, we got good news and bad news, Brandon. The bad news is when we went in there, your Achilles was partially torn. The good news is we fixed it. Like, do you remember, Ben, do you remember back in the day? Like, guys would go in, remember when micro fracture was a thing? And basically what they would do is, there would be like a cartilage injury or whatever, and they wouldn't know. for sure, whether they would have to do micro fracture.

They would go in and they would determine we can either fix this or we have to do micro fracture, which is where they would drill like little teeny holes in your knee, and they would like form scar tissue would help it heal. But if you had micro fracture, you were basically out for a year. And they didn't always know. So I remember this was like a Mari Stadamai or like they went in for like an arthroscopic surgery and was like, okay, this is either going to be six weeks or a season. and you like go under, you know, the, the, the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the, the, the, you know, the, the, you're going to be played in that year or not.

So this wasn't quite that dramatic, but imagine like the doctor or the surgeon comes in after it. And it's like, yeah, by the way. So I just, you know, I feel for kind of, as you're talking about Brandon, like, you know, he's a very wealthy athlete who's making $30 million a year. That said, like that was, that's a bummer and a half because he already couldn't finish the seven games series with the calves. He wasn't on the court when the Raptors got eliminated last season. So sorry, go ahead. No, two thoughts on that, though. One, he said he knew something was wrong, though.

So maybe he wasn't fully surprised or blindsided. He said it was bothering him. Well, he said it was bothering him for quite a while last season, even kind of heading up and towards the playoffs. And the other thing here is there's not a huge urgency, right? Like the Clippers aren't trying to beat contenders this season. They've gone a long runway. Right.

And Brandon Ingram's got the player option for not this season, but the following season, right? So this seems like one to me where you would try to be patient. The other ones are not as dramatic here, Brian, but still 2023 second round pick, Jordan Miller. He had like a mini breakout last season. This summer, thorn left rotator cuff, underwent surgery in August, will be re-evaluated sometime around February. So, you know, that's basically out to the all-star break. There are 2025 first-round pick, center, Janek, Conan, Niederhauser, underwent foot surgery in March. He will not be ready for opening night,

but apparently he's making good progress. And then finally, you may be shocked here. Bradley Beal, you know, finds himself on the injury report. He underwent hip surgery last season. He's got right knee inflammation that will prevent him from being available to start training camp in Hawaii this week. It didn't sound too serious, but obviously he's had issues with his knees in the past. And so you just kind of don't know there with Bradley Bill. But as Clippers fans are, you know, wrapping their minds around all the investigation and trying to start the new chapter, they've got four names on the injury list already. And we haven't even started. God. Well, I guess you could say that's good for Keaton Wogler. There,

number five overall, I don't know if it's good, but he's going to get a chance to play. He's going to get minutes. What about the reactions for Ty Liu and other guys to, you know, we haven't heard, you know, publicly from these guys since the penalty came down. Well, here's what I would say on the investigation and the aftermath. You mentioned earlier how you felt like the Clippers were a smart organization. I think one smart thing that they've done or one thing they've tried to do from emulating other smart franchises is really have a lot of continuity in their front office.

Like if you look at the major players here, Steve Ballmer buys a team in 2014, Gillian Zucker has worked there since 2014, Lawrence Frank has worked there since 2014. Balmer's only hired two coaches, Doc Rivers and Tai Liu during that entire time period, right? We're going on 12 years. He didn't even really hire. I mean, Doc was already there when he got there. I'm pretty sure. That's right.

Yeah, he's only had two coaches, right? And, you know, Tai Liu got promoted too, right? So it's really been an in-house thing. And so I guess even their communications people have been there for like seven, eight years, right? What I'm getting to is like Trent Redid, he's the designated survivor. Like he's like the one guy who's left with all these names and faces that have been very familiar in past years, kind of being out of the picture.

And, you know, Ty Lou and him try to put on a brave face. You know, Ty said he had no expectations about what the punishments would be. He says he's faced challenges before with the clippers. This is just another challenge. and then he said he's loyal till the end to Steve Ballmer because everything Balmer's done for him personally and for his community where he grew up. In terms of what Trent Redden said, he really stuck a lot to the public statements that the Clippers have put out there. He explained a little bit about how their processes might change with Lawrence Frank suspended.

He said there wouldn't be too much different. It'll be kind of like business as usual. But in one tell that, you know, things are unusual here in the Clippers, there was a slight flub during his opening remarks, and he didn't get the name quite right of the interim governor for the clippers. And so he had to double back and correct himself. And so it just tells you that's one thing that was not as stable is the guy who's acting as the governor. Yeah, that's right. But so, you know, you got some new faces.

Everybody's tried to make adjustments and make the best, I think, of a really tough situation. Yeah. So I'm going to say something about Trent Redden. I've known him for a long time. Look, if you were involved with the 2016 Cavs, just be honest. I was very close to that team. I've spent a lot of time with, I mean, some of these guys are my colleagues at ESPN now, okay? If you were involved with the 2016 Cavs, you know, I probably know you pretty well.

And Trent and Ty Lou were part of that team. Trent was assistant general manager. And also what I'll say about Trent is that he is absolutely. Absolutely a realist. Trust me. He understands everything that goes on. He's not somebody who doesn't understand all sides of a situation. He understands sometimes there's hard things to be done.

And he's actually, I think, a good person for this job because he has no ego whatsoever. And he's got a lot of experience, but he's still young enough to have a lot of energy. So I, you know, it's a tough situation. but he won't enter it not being able to be equipped to manage it. So I'll say that about Trent. Anyway, I also think, Ty, he handled himself really well. He took every question that was thrown to him. And I should have mentioned, he started by apologizing to the Clippers fan base

for not having clearer communication over the last month. They were getting mixed signals from these different statements. Remember, Balmer came out and vehemently rejected the investigation's findings and then turned around three weeks later and said, okay, we accepted. And I think he realizes there needs to be some massaging done to make sure people are still showing up and sharing in that wall, you know? Yeah, well, listen, I don't think the Clippers, I don't think the Clippers got, I wanted

to step back. I'm not going to get in trouble, Ben. I think the Clippers could have gotten some better advice at times. Okay, I think, is that diplomatic enough to say? I don't think you're getting in trouble for that. Yeah. But when I, you know, I'm just, you know, as you read that report, some of the stuff they did, you're like, wait a minute. Why?

Why would you do it that way? But anyway, yeah, so look, I mean, if you're a Clipper fan, I guess you're really, you know, looking to see how the young guys play. that's what you're looking forward to. And, you know, it's probably not a bad idea for being able to sit the whole preseason anyway. He probably shouldn't be playing in the preseason anyway. So I'm not as worried about that. But, man, it's a tough sell to their fans, man. It's a tough sell.

And you know what, Ben, you know, you've been covering the league for a while. I'm telling you, I honestly think a lot of it is rooted in the fact that they've got, that they live in the Lakers, shadow. Maybe they should never have less San Diego. That's what I'm saying. If they could have just been in San Diego, I think it would have been better for them. Because some of the stuff that they do, I think of this whole thing, and I've compared

this to what the Nets did when they came out with Brokeroff and moved to Brooklyn and they wanted to take on the Knicks. And so they, you know, tried to, they got a little bit too aggressive and got a little bit out of their comfort zone and did some stuff they shouldn't have done in the name of, you know, taking over the city and then really got it in the chin. And it's really, in some ways, you know, are still recovering from two big giant swings they made that failed. Like there's something to be said for overreach. And I think that the clippers were kind of guilty of being too worried about the Lakers instead of thinking of what their own path is. That's my opinion. You can say I'm wrong.

but that's my opinion. I think that they're incredibly ambitious, incredibly competitive organization. I think it starts with Steve Ballmer. You know, I tell people, he does everything to try to build up the Clippers. He even throws a birthday party for his mascot

and brings in like 20 mascots from around the country to perform at a game. Like he was hitting out cash rewards for fans who would show up to Clippers games early in cheer before they even moved into the Intuit dome, you know, spend billions on the arena. Like the want has never been a question with this group, right?

It's sort of the execution and really how do you create your identity like you're describing. My biggest concern about the clippers on the court this coming season, even when they get all these guys back who we're describing, I feel like they have a lack of physicality almost up and down positionally at almost every spot. I think they're going to be small. I think they could potentially get pushed around. And I think they're going to have to find some creative ways to hold their positions, you know, from point guard all the way up to center.

And so that's really, I think, the challenge for Tai Liu. I mean, this guy has done a great job at getting lemonade out of lemon, so to speak. And I think he's right back in that same challenge on the core with the team this season. Yeah, there's still depending on some older guys, too. You know, Brooke Lopez is still in that rotation. So, you know, they're still going to need some health to go their way eventually. I will point out the Clippers have a swap with the, you know, as you evaluate this, the actual last piece of the Kauai trade has yet to be extinguished,

and that is the swap in this year's draft. The Thunder have the option to swap with the Clippers. And I kind of feel like there is a chance, Ben, that the Clippers are going to be a team that falls into that meat part of the lottery. I think they'll be good enough that they won't be one of the quote-unquote relegated teams, but I think it's going to be hard for them to be a play-in team. and I think they could be, you know, not that I want to, you know, point to more of the thunder getting assets, but I think, you know, especially when you hear that Brandon Ingram is going to be out for some period of time here,

that that sort of, I mean, I don't know what else to say. I think they're headed for that zone. I could be wrong. I will point out that Kauai, because we're not going to talk about the Raptors specifically today, Kauai did have a press conference today in Toronto. And he said, quote, I know you want to hear about the investigation. I think the best decision is to move forward and my focus on my time being a Toronto Raptor. I just want to focus on basketball.

So there's that too. I mean, tongue in cheek, but he might be the biggest winner of the entire summer with the way this played out, especially with the extension. He got the extension on the first day of fall. So he's eligible. he's eligible to be the winner of the fall too. It's going to take some more to go his way, you know, the Raptor's way,

but he's already on the list, on the short list, on the watch list for winning the fall after winning the summer. This might be a little bit of a hot take. I kind of like Scotty Barnes as a superstar pair with Kauai better than the Paul George pairing. I mean, obviously Kauai is at a different stage of his career a little bit older,

but, you know, Scotty Barnes is defensive versatility, his strength. playmaking ability. How many times do we see Paul George turn the ball over in key moments for the clippers during that peak run that they were having through the playoffs? I don't know. I think it's a really nice fit. I think he made a smart choice, not just going back to Toronto, but the pieces that they have in place. I don't see them in the championship conversation, really, but I think they could be a real tough out for just about everybody. Well, let me just say this. So think about it like this. Now, obviously the caveat is that Kauai's got to be healthy, you know, the standard is like 65

games, right? Is he a 65 game player or not? I don't know. Last year he played 60 games, I think. Or maybe he played 65. I think he played 65. LeBron played 60. Scottie Barnes, Kauai Leonard, Colin Murray Boyles, who was their CMB, who was, he had a really nice rookie season last year. Yacob Pertil. I know that Pertil's contract, it's rough, but think about Yacup Pertil player. Think about that front court rotation. how many how many teams we mentioned with a better front court rotation before you talk about that that's pretty good that's a pretty good front court what was i just saying about the clippers not enough size of physicality at every position you've got size and physicality at virtually every position on the raptor's roster right for sure so um you know you can certainly and the thing about toronto they ended last season they were the five seed you know emmanuel quickly and missed the whole series with the calves uh brandy their Grom missed, I think, for the last three games, something like that. So they lost that series in seven without two starters for most of it. But the challenge that Toronto had was they had a very expensive roster. And their players are good, but their players were a little bit overpaid.

Like people like RJ Barrett, who I guess could be concluded in their front court rotation, if you want to stretch it to that. But people like RJ Bear, people like quickly, their contracts are just a little bit high. Pertil's contract, it didn't have a ton of value. People value them as a player, but the contract extension they signed last year was a little heavy. And so they were going to have a hard time. You know, they weren't going to get high draft picks.

They were going to have a hard time turning, upgrading that roster. They kind of were like in a little bit of a corner. That's why Scotty Barnes' ascension made a big difference for them. And so for them to trade for Kauai Leonard, especially now knowing what we know, which is that their piece that they were trading for him, in addition to the picks, they traded two firsts in a swap. But now that we know that Ingram was dealing with a parser torn Achilles,

which they obviously knew when they entered those trade talks, it's a risk, no doubt. But you can understand why they took that risk. And they have absolutely boosted their talent level. So whereas I think the Clippers' talent level is significantly down from where it was. it's a great point. I mean, the flip side of the Clippers having a long runway to let Brandon Ingram, you know, come back slowly and just kind of nurse his way back onto the court. The Raptors didn't really have that long runway. They want to win now, right? They want to make some, you know,

continued progress into standings after a huge jump, you know, out of the lottery last season, right, into the playoffs. So you want to keep that momentum going. They weren't in a position to just kind to wait and be hamstrung by an Ingram injury. So I think this works for Toronto on every level. It's a lot of money on the extension for Kauai. But career high scoring last year, you know, pretty good availability like you described. I think he's a good fit with Scotty Barnes. I think you can justify it on those grounds. Yeah.

And I also point out that they have a new controlling owner, Ed Rogers. Larry Tanenbaum has been their governor. It's a long, complicated conglomerate to conglomerate deal. But the most important thing is there's a new boss in Toronto. So there's a new boss, especially when your team is expensive. It's a good idea to win. So, you know, show me the incentive and I'll show you the result. And that is what I think we're going to see.

I think Toronto was more willing to take a risk for a number of reasons. They sense their chance. They sense the quality of the deal. But also, like, let's not forget that there's a new boss. And when there's a new boss, the people who are entrenched in the big positions will get, you know, they get a little uncomfortable. That's the nature of sport. So that's worth pointing out.

Ben, thank you for your coming on. We look forward to having you on throughout the season. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Anytime, Brian. All right. Take care. Have a good night. All right. Joining us now, old friend, not a friend who's old. Old friend. He used to cover the NBA FreeSPN. Now he's primarily the Detroit Lions beatwriter for ESPN.com.

McMahon, we're happy to welcome back, Eric Woodyard. You're happy to welcome back. I'm not happy. You've charmed yet another co-worker, McMahon. man. Listen. That's his way and telling me he love you, man.

He missed me, man. I know. He knows my love languages. That's right. All right. All right, Eric, you were at the Detroit Pistons.

He did pull some double duty. He covered the Lions on Sunday. We're at the Detroit Pistons Media Day on Monday. And, Love not in the air there either. All right. You just tell us what went down. I was at the Lakers.

McMahon was at the Thunder. I don't have a full understanding. I'll just get out of it. your way. You tell us what went down. Yeah, man, we grew, we grew with Trejan Langdon a little bit today. I'm not going to lie, you know, they got after him a little bit, you know, myself included in, you know, we jumped right out the gate. You know, he was saying he didn't really want to talk about the Jalen Duren situation, but obviously Jalen Duren didn't come to the media day. So that was, you know, that was really pretty much all the questions that he got, you know,

why he wasn't there and, you know, did he feel like, you know, they were reaching agreement. And to my understanding, you know, he said, Trajan Dendon was saying he hadn't spoke directly to Jailen Dern. pretty much all summer. So they haven't had any, you know, any, any communication. You know, we got Kay Cunningham and J.B. Bicker staff. And I thought it was interesting, you know, talking to Kay and J.B.

They were saying, like, kind of the opposite where they were in communication with them. They were talking to them. Kay was, you know, he said, that's my brother, man. I love him. You know, you know, he was saying when he went through his contract extension, he was kind of going through some of those same feelings, even though it didn't draw out, obviously this far. But when he got his extension, I believe in 2024, you know, was saying he kind of leaned on that situation to kind of bond with Jalen Duren during these times.

And, you know, he was still just hoping everything got taken care of, but he's kind of been able to take the personal side out of the business negotiations and, you know, just understand it's a business. And it's not like him taking a jab at necessarily Cade or nobody. So that's how he's still been able to support him throughout these times. And I think, you know, obviously it's frustrating. You don't want to hear all these questions on, you know, the day before training camp or media day.

But, I mean, that's what's going on. And they kind of both are the standsstill right now. And I'm not sure. Well, I wouldn't expect a trade agent to talk with Jalen, to be honest with you. That's what the purpose of the agent is. If he had been talking with him, probably the agent would be pretty pissed off. You know, and by the way, like it's not, it's, it's, J.B. Bickerstaff's job is to coach him. It's not to negotiate the contract.

So I actually think it's a good sign that J.B. and the franchise player are on good terms. That means if slash when they make a deal, which. McMahon, I think they're going to make a deal at some point. I don't know if it'll be by Thursday, but that when he gets back in, you know, he can shoot daggers at the front office, but the guys he's going to be working for and going to play with will be, you know, the relationships will be there. So I actually think that I take, if I'm a Pistons fan,

I like that update that Woodrow just gave us. Well, and Janun's ire is with Trajan Langan. Let's just like be clear. And that's part of the job for Trajan. I think you can debate whether he's handled this particular situation well, because this is two summers, very tense, frigid, I would even say, negotiations. But man, the Pistons, they have budged and budged and budged and budged to the point now where Shams is reporting. The deal is five years for $200 million guaranteed.

So, you know, I also, Eric, have covered some football. And there's a famous, off-use Jerry Jones quote that says, Don't let your money get mad. And Jalen Dern is letting his money get mad because even if you sign the qualifying offer, which we all know, that is you sign that so you can leave. And you get Max next summer, whether that is the Saccharacterial, Sacramento Kings, the Milwaukee Bucks, you know, fill in a blank of another team, a four-year max from another team plus your qualifying offer still comes up short of five years,

200 million. So this is the epitome of letting your money get mad if you don't end up signing this deal. And never mind, it would be leaving a situation where, man, there's not a whole lot of better situations for a young big man with Jan Dern's skill set or in some cases lack thereof, then playing with an all-MBA playmaker like Cade Cunningham. Ain't going to be a Cade Cunningham if you go to Sacramento. If you go to Milwaukee, you know, I can go on down the line. So the question was never, was he going to show up for Media Day?

We knew he wasn't, obviously. But it's what's going to happen before Thursday. and I hope for his sake that he signs that contract. Eric, you mentioned some of your reporting that Jalen may be a little bit annoyed with how his contract situations played out versus a Sarr Thompson who signed a $155 million extension last week. Yeah, that's what the sources are saying. And, you know, that was another thing. We took the trades in it. He didn't care, man.

I mean, they just really, it's straight business. They don't care if he annoyed or they don't care how you feel. But my thought process is still, like, how does that leak over into the locker room? You know what I mean? Like, y'all coming off a 60-win season, the Pistons haven't been relevant in years. You know, these is kind of returning to the, you know, to being relevant again. And I'm wondering, you know, you can tell us all y'all want, but I'm wondering how players are really receiving that. How is it?

How is Thompson receiving that? How is, you know, behind closed doors? So that's something concerning, man. I mean, and naturally the East has gotten better, man. So, I mean, I mean, even trading in those guys today were saying, hey, you know, we can't compare to that 60-win season from last year, you know, our goals might be a little different. I mean, Philadelphia has gotten better.

You know, everybody in the East has gotten better, and that's the question about this Pistons team is, have they gotten better? You know what I mean? So, yeah, I'm concerned about that. If he really feels that way, you know what I mean? That's what we're hearing. He's feeling that way.

And, you know, just moving forward what that does for this locker room, even though they're saying all the right things. Like, you know, is that going to be cancerous to this situation? And, you know, if it is, then why not consider just trade him? Yeah, so a couple of strategic things. First off, we're recording this on Monday evening. I say this during trade deadline week when the deadline is third. Trade deadline is always Thursday afternoon.

Monday ain't Thursday. And the reason that the Thursday deadline is the deadline for the qualifying offer because if, you know, after Thursday, the pistons can pull the qualifying offer off the table. And the reason that Duren has a big decision to make because if, and he's going to play this year, just to be clear. But if you were to say, I'm sitting out the season, the Pistons can just re-qualify him next year and he's restricted. So let's put it this way.

If Jalen Duren doesn't sign that qualifying offer by Thursday, he's going to end up signing for the Pistons for some deal. And it ain't going to be a one-year deal. The Pistons are not going to give him a one-year deal where he can become a free agent at the end of the year. So the Pistons are incentivized to get him into a weekend. contract. He is incentivized to get into a contract and not and, you know, and, um, and not take the qualifier because there's just too much of a gap. However, he could take the

qualifier. That's absolutely true. But he doesn't got to decide until Thursday. So like, I know that it was newsworthy because he didn't show up at Media Day. If he misses the first few days of practice, it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. Um, I do think, that hard feelings can be gotten over when it's with the front office. Hard feelings with the locker room, it's a little bit more complicated. Hard things to the front office can get over with and $200 million is a lot of money. So really, if I were the Pistons, and look, Trajan is negotiating this, but Arn-Tellum is the Pistons president, Arn-Tellum has been through, this is an old battle axe.

He's been on the other side. with an old lion with scars all over his face. He knows what to do here. Basically, I think you have to do if you're the Pistons is to do something where Jalen can feel like he won. Do something where he can feel like he won and it doesn't hurt your team. That's the zone that you're in right now. And, you know, aren't tell him knows what he's doing. Jalen Durenz got very experienced agents on his side.

they know what they're doing Eric I think Duren will be in uniform I don't know about in uniform but I think by the end of the week Dern will be under contract and I think I think the process will be

on the on the men they're not far enough apart for this to be to turn into an all-out war well and Wendy they've reached a point where Jalen Duren can claim victory 200 million

again mathematically No, he can't, yes, but he's now turned that down. So he now, you know, Choms and Eric and all these, well, everybody's not reported. He's turned it down. He now can't take $200 million. And he can't take $201.

Okay. So, Amman Thompson got 208. He's the highest non-Wemby guy in the class. Figure out a way to be able to say it's more than 208. And we'll see you late. We'll see you in a couple of days. That's my assessment.

All right. That's interesting. And, you know, the other thing, honestly, like, the Pistons have moved significantly past their threshold of being comfortable with the contract. Like, we are, they have reached the point where they, and they're not going to say this when the ink's dry, but they feel like this is an overpay for the player. They have reached that point. The locker room thing, you know, if the stuff about SARS negotiations went smooth and you paid. him going into it, you know, he got his extension. He didn't have to drag it in a restricted frequency. I don't know, man. It's Kate Cunningham's locker room. I think J.B. Bicker staff has got good relationships throughout that locker room. I would hope that that stuff can be massage, smoothed over, whatever the case may be. And then, honestly, if Jalen Dern wants to, you know, bleepety bleep,

Traygeon, okay. He doesn't have, like, Trajan's not passing the ball. That's fine. You don't, players don't have to be buddy, buddy with the, you know, lead decision maker in the front office. That's, I don't think that's a big issue. If it's bleeding over the locker, that's when there's problems. And that is the risk of these hardline stance sometimes in negotiations is the human element. Definitely. Eric, what else, What's non-Jalen Duren did you learn about the Pistons today? Man, I think, you know, they, and Kay Cunningham, I asked about just his growth coming into this year. You know, one of the biggest things, you know, they, I think they caught, maybe, they might have caught some people by surprise last year.

Nobody expected the Pistons to be a 60-win team. And, you know, I was just curious to how they were feeling about now teams got better, as I mentioned before, but coming after them as well. They're going to be, you know, devoting a lot of more attention to Kay Cunningham, might even try. to feel like they can follow some of that playoff blueprint. So, you know, what was some of the ways that they got better over the offseason or, you know, how's Kay dealing with, you know, he's about to become a Nike signature athlete and just all this attention. And, you know, J.B. was just saying he's a guy that's chasing greatness, man. He was saying that he's going to feel like Kate is going to even be better this year.

And Kate is kind of up for that challenge. I mean, we haven't had a lot of superstars in Detroit in a while. So I think a lot of people have embraced that, man, just from a cultural aspect from every aspect. So this is a new, a new lane that Cade is entering. And I think he's ready for it, man. It seems like he's just poised. He's coming in. He's something like he put the work in.

And he feels like he's a lot of common this year. He feels like a true leader this year. And I'm interested to see how it pans off because I'm just, I'm worried about just some of the pieces they put around them. Who's the serious number, like who's the legit number two? That was a question for me last year. Like who would be the opposite score or opposite of Kay? You know what I mean? And, you know, I mean, I guess they feel like, you know, they've done enough with John Collins and some of those guys.

And that's going to be a question. But I think Kay is going to be ready. That's what I learned it out. I feel like he will be. Yeah. And that's why, like, this has been a rough summer for Detroit. They've got the Dern situation that is still lingering and is not gone as they hoped it would. But the big question going into the offseason other than Jalen Dern was just what you mentioned.

Like, who's going to be that legitimate number two offensive option? And, like, if they could have gotten Kauai, that would have been a. solution. Honestly, if they could have gotten Norm Powell, that would have been a solution. They don't, that's the thing. They don't have a legit number two offensive option. And you can bully ball and, you know, out tough your way to 60 wins in a regular season. I do think that catches up to them in the playoffs. and we saw that in addition to Dern being a bit of a no-show, I would say. But we saw the lack of a legit number two guy catch up to him in the playoffs last year.

That's true. All right. Well, thank you for pinch hitting, Eric. And I don't know, maybe we'll be talking to you more in the short term here if this gets worse before it gets better. Anytime. I appreciate you all, man. Just seeing you all right. Now, back to Dan Campbell.

I say hi. I got you. All right. From morning hockey with a cup of coffee to Timbits and road trips. Tim's and Canadian Tire have always gone together. Now it's official. You can now earn Canadian Tire money at Tim's. Link your Triangle Rewards and Tim's Rewards accounts to earn twice with every Tim's run.

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Visit Scotia Bank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Take care. Okay, now joining us from San Francisco, actually at the Chase Center, where the Warriors had their Media Day festivities on Monday, is Anthony Slater. What's up, Slater? I got to catch a flight to Hawaii.

The team left. I know, I know. That was quite a way to enter, right? They had media date. Dunleavy and Kerr talked at 8 and 8.30 a.m. That's a tough assignment. Well, Slater, I'm in L.A. And I should say one of our former colleagues who was traveling with the Clippers to Los Angeles was very happily on the team charter to,

to the Clippers team charter to Hawaii before the Lakers were even done talking at their media day. The Clippers were on their plane at L.A.X. I'm willing to wager, though. There was a comment, like, but I don't get any miles. No miles. And he was running late to get to the airport. Oh, boy.

So everything is fine. Well, I know it's fine because I just was just texting with him because I'm going to be able to make Clippers practice tomorrow, their first practice in Honolulu, and he's like, oh, we're three hours from landing. And I was like, okay, he's already talking team side, by the way. I don't even know if this news is out, so I don't know how to. It's not out, so we probably shouldn't say any more of it. Yeah.

So, all right. Slater, so I was embroiled in Lakerville today because McMenaman couldn't be bothered. Oh. I totally miss what was happening at Golden State, but I heard we have some Chris Hops-Porsingus Zingas News. Yeah, I told you, Mike Dunle, we was talking to eight. I would say 759, you get the Raymond Ritter update of like, hey, Jimmy Butler and Moses Moody are making progress, and, you know, they're doing light on-court activities, and

we'll announce, you know, more in a few weeks about their progress, and then Dunleavy takes the mic, that was expected, and then Dunleavy takes the mic and says, oh, also, you know, Christops for Zingas, I got a call last night. He's dealing with a health issue. He's out indefinitely. not going to Hawaii. That takes him out of the first five practices and the first preseason game, which is in Honolulu.

That's all they're saying. Dunley even said, hey, I'm not marking him out to start the season. But obviously, for this to be the first thing you hear at 801 a.m. on Media Day with the context of what he's missed 90 games over the last two years, not all because of the health issues, but a large chunk of it. Well, and we're talking health, he had the mysterious illness that, as, I mean, it limited them to basically 42 games in 24, 25 with the Celtics. There's a big part.

Yeah, 32 last year. You know, I assume this is probably related to that. If it was an injury, they'd say, you know, hey, is, you know, knees stiff or whatever the case might be. It's unfortunate. It's also, you know, this is why Porzingis is on a contract that has only $3 million. guaranteed next year. He's impactful when he's on the floor, but he's just not on the floor that often

for a variety of medical reasons. So you guys know this, but oftentimes on Media Day, you get information, Brandon Ingram, for example, today that, you know,

injuries that have been known by franchises for a while, that you just got to kind of announce it today because it's the day to, like, you know, news starts coming out. Yeah, you're going to see when they're not practicing,

that they're not practicing. Yeah, exactly. This is not, that is not the case with Porzingis that they've known about this for a while. Christop's Porzziens was in the facility last week on the court. He'd been cleared. They'd been relatively optimistic about how he'd looked and how he was feeling physically the summer. He went to Jimmy Butler's organized minicamp with all the players. He was on the court with them last week.

From what I gather, Mike Dunleavy really just got a call last night, Sunday night, that Porzingis was not going to be able to be at Media Day and not going to be able to go on to the trip to Hawaii. So this dropped like a shocker. Can I say as a quick aside? All the places that the teams went for practice, you know, they're on their sort of organized team activity from Slovenia, which by the way, McMahon, the Lakers were all talking about that. It's a beautiful place. Yeah. From Slovenia, the wolves went to Paris.

Some teams went to Miami. San Antonio went to Paris. Yeah. San Diego where Jimmy hosted it, that would be my vote. Talk about a perfect place to go in the summer where it's not too hot. I would go to San Diego every year. That's all I've got to say. Well, why do we stay in stateside?

Well, if I was an organized team workout, yes, I would have, I would like to be in San Diego. I need to find moral reason. This is the second time I've mentioned San Diego on this podcast. I said earlier, I don't know when it'll come out, but I won't even say it. There's another reference to San Diego on this podcast. That's two now. Let's see if I can get a third. Anyways, later, I'm sorry you were saying about Porzincas.

Can Kauai play for the Raptors and still live in San Diego? Is there anyway? Figure that one out. Well, one of the things he was, it was reimbursing people for was private jet travel. You know, the Raptors gave them their jet. Well, and I think the answer. And he was flying back and forth. And the best part was Drake,

Drake let Kauai borrow his house in 2019. And Kauai used Drake's house, you know, Mr. Raptor, to meet with Paul George to finalize that partnership. Sounds like that. When you say, when you say, can Kauai do this? The answer is Kauai can do whatever the hell he wants, clearly. except and what he doesn't want to do is talk about this whole investment. We're just moving on.

Yeah. What an opening statement by him today. I saw that. Okay. So back to what we're talking about with Porzingis, bigger picture, this is as Tim said, this is why they signed into the contract they did, which is two years, 40 million, but the second year only has three million guaranteed. They can get out of it next summer and open up more cap space.

Or theoretically, and we, you know, we can get it. into the other sides of the Warriors media, which includes Steph's contract. They could trade him. He's kind of in some ways an expiring, flexible deal. So it's not like devastating, like long term as you look at Porzingis' health status. But if we are literally talking about the warriors this season and their outlook, they now don't, at least entering training camp right now, don't have three starters, you'd say. Jimmy Butler and Moses Moody out till midseason probably.

And then we'll see on Porzengis. But, I mean, those are three of their six most important. players. And honestly, that's like, it's just extremely difficult to envision any scenario that results in the Warriors being anything more than an acute playing team this year. You know, like, I guess some kind of blockbuster deal can fall out of the sky. I mean, you know, I don't know. If Anthony Davis arrives there, I don't know. I don't even know if that bumps him into top six in the West type of territory. I mean, any hope, I think, for the Warriors to return to, I'm like to say relevance,

because if Steph's there, they're relevant. We'll be talking about them. People will be watching them. But competitive relevance, you know, I think that's at least two transaction cycles, a trade deadline in a summer way, at least. All right. So let's talk about Steph. Steph goes two years.

what was the number 116. One million more than Kauai got. I think he's earned that. I would agree. She's got two more rings. Yes, what it really was was with one year 55.7.

And part of the benefit bonus of Steph taking it is the player option he got on the second year. And, you know, he can scrap that up and get to his max, you know, if needed. Yeah, yeah, Steph look, we talked several times, including with you, about this.

Steph gave him a break, but Steph ain't in the mood to leave a lot of money on the old table, which I don't blame him for 100% to be clear. Like, for what? To save you money? Because like, tell me if I leave this on the table, it means you're going to do what? And like, show me the move they're going to do.

That's just going to like, oh, man, we're back in the finals. I'll say this clearly, and Mike Dunleavy said it on the podium today, and it's all I've been hearing for the last month. Like, Dunleavy and Steph and Steph and, like, they all went through various scenarios, which includes Max. Sorry to be clear. Yes. Which include waiting, right? One of the options, and Steph was contemplating. It was like literally just not signing anything until either later in the season or potentially June, July of next year, which would have been maximum type flexibility because they would have.

really been able to maneuver Steph's contract down to the dollar that they knew they needed later. But within all those conversations, it's clear that they were like, you know, again, they're not going to tell us the exact names that they were discussing, but it's, they were saying, here it could be a trade target. Here it could be free agents next summer. Here's the way we can do this and that. And they went through all that. And Steph at the end of the day, who wanted security, he's turning 39 this year, his knee,

all that, just said, okay, I'll give you $10 million back is what he landed on. He could have done 65-ish million. He instead did 55.7. So I don't know what that tells you. I don't know if that says, oh, Steph thinks that they're, you know, 10 could really help him here. Or if that tells you,

hey, Steph's like, look, I really don't think you can execute anything too crazy here. And I'm going to take most of my money and kind of punch you a little bit back. So to help you maybe pay Draymond and maybe do some other stuff here and there, but he didn't give a lot back. Yeah. So which I don't blame him. it's totally fine.

I want to be crystal clear. The man has earned it. He can take whatever he wants. It's all cool, awesome. He could have signed this contract in the spring. Yeah. You know, but like, I respect it. The man can do whatever he wants.

And again, it's also totally fine if, you know, the Twilight of his career is playing for teams that are okay, that are like, you know, playing teams. It's a lot better than the ending of most legends careers. I mean, you don't get a whole lot of John Elway situations in the NBA where a guy is riding out into the sunset with Larry O'Brien, you know, gleaming. Like, that's just not, I mean, it doesn't happen very often. Jordan did it.

And then he said that he came back anyway. Okay, Jimmy Butler talked today, Slater. Look, everybody's got great optimism on Media Day. but let's get on the record what he said about his knee recovery. He was talking about his knee, and he's been doing like strengthening tests, you know, especially in 2026. There's so many things you can do to track your recovery. And he's talking about like the testing on his knee, the strength exercises. And he said, my testing numbers are staggering. They're off the charts. I'm ahead. So they say he's got the best numbers. Yeah, he's got the greatest

rehab numbers ever. Nobody's had better numbers than me. But anyway, I, I'm a head. You know, I mean, it's a good sign that he said it. Again, he's going to be off to the side to an individual work in Hawaii. He's weeks, potentially, you know, month away from, like, contact work. Rick Celebrating, I can remember at the late stages of Clay's rehab was, like, really tedious and really patient considering Clay's age. And Jimmy's even older. Jimmy's 37, just turned 37.

So from all I've heard, it's, you know, we're talking January, February range. But that's, you know, that's still, if that is the case, if he does show up at that time, if they are not completely underwater record-wise, he keeps talking like his knees feeling good and he feels like he's going to come back and be some version of what he used to be. This is what McMahon's going to do on our overseas trip this week. He's going to just stand off to the side and do work by himself. I mean, I ain't working. You kidding? All right, Slater. We'll enjoy Hawaii. Y'all didn't even ask about Yaxel. He's the star. Oh, yeah, no, he had another fun day. Hexel Lindenborg, their rookie. Yeah, he, you know, he was in San Diego. He's like one, he's really won over these veterans and Steve Kerr quickly. I mean, the fact that he's 24 is.

Curr is always welcoming to rookies. Which, by the way, I mean, he actually even likes to joke about that. But again, Steve mentioned the idea of maybe starting him today. But I guess, you know, he was on the San Diego trip and he had a couple plays, I guess, during their scrimmages down in San Diego that Draymond and Steph were glowing about already. So we'll see. Listen, you know what I hear, Wendy? two timelines is back, baby.

Except Yaxel is the oldest rookie. He's like these punters on all these college football teams. These Aussie punters. There's like 26, 27, 28-year-old punters who've had like a full rugby career, retired. Isn't that just all of college football now? I was going to say, punters, quarterbacks, tight ends. Right.

BYU used to have like half their team that way. Right. Brigh of Young and name only. What about before you go, Brandon Pajemski, was there any comment on his contract status? Yeah, I mean, look, both sides are expressing optimism. They're still talking. October 19th, obviously the deadline. I would say the, I wish I had the exact number up. The cap hold is important here. His cap hold next. 17.5, roughly. 17.5, there you go. And as protective and down to the dollars, we've seen the Warriors are about their future flexibility. I don't imagine they're going to want on an extension with Pajemski to go too much beyond

that cap hold because every dollar they go beyond is impacts this glorious cap space that they keep talking about. So take without what you will. What will Pajemski be willing to take or not? I think this seems, it profiles to me like a situation that resolves closer to the October 19th deadline. but you know i don't it's not a no-go but it's certainly going to have to to to be a negotiation that both sides are expressing um you know like like they're saying the right things but i'm

curious how it ultimately lands all right all right slater enjoy hawaii we'll wave on our way by to australia yeah i was going to say enjoy well australia and and and wherever else Australia and beyond. Yes, the Pacific Rim we're headed for. All right, talk to you soon. Okay, McMahon, we can finally get to your labor today. At Oklahoma City, the 2025 NBA champion, Oklahoma City Thunder. Yeah, and honestly, today was kind of grieving process is too strong.

Oh. But it was kind of about these guys, you know, they're a very tight-knit team. That's been one of their strengths. And today it was kind of about these guys coming to grips with a reality that three of their beloved teammates and of their longtime teammates are no longer their teammates. You know, Lou Dort, Aaron Wiggins, and Isaiah Joe. and, you know, Dort had been here seven years, you know, Ty was Shave for the longest tenure, Wiggins 5, Isaiah Joe 4. I mean, you know, there's never been a game that Jalen Williams or Chet Ongren

has played for the Oklahoma City Thunder that those guys weren't on the roster, you know? And so, like, Dube was like, it's the weirdest thing ever, just the feeling of not having those guys. And Shea was mentioning that, uh, You know, it's almost like he said, I almost expect them to show up for the team picture like I'm about to see him in a few minutes. And so it's coming to grips without reality while turning the page and getting ready for a season when obviously look, man, the Thunder are absolutely championship contenders. I think they're, I believe the last time I saw the betting favorites, they were tied with the spurs as co-favorants to win the championship. And honestly, you know, the way Shea put it, I think, is the way these guys are looking at it.

Like, they're going to miss the people. But it's not, there's not a lot of concern about how they're going to replace them on the floor. And that's no disrespect to those guys who are all valuable role players and help them win a ring and all that. But they know the plan. The plan is more Kason Wallace, more A.J. Mitchell. You know, we'll see if Bennett Sturts, the rookie guard who I believe was a 16th pick will be able to carve it. Well, when we had Bennett Sturts on the podcast right after he got drafted by The Thunder, they traded. I think they traded up to get him, right?

We had him on the show that we did that night. God, was he an impressive. I mean, you know, he's older, right? He's like 23. Yeah. Very impressive individual. Yeah. I can see why the Thunder who, you know, need guys to step in right away.

I can see why they were attracted to him. He can shoot too. I'll point that out. And then the other thing is they need Jaylon Williams. Stay healthy, which he's done a lot of work this summer to try to maximize his chances of not having those hamstrings reoccur. Last year was as frustrating a season as it possibly could have been for him, you know, missing the first 19 games, recovering from the wrist surgery. And then he had four different hamstring strains twice on each hammie, including, you know, two in the play. playoffs. So a combination of rest and working on his body that, you know, he's optimistic. He can

stay healthy, which that soaks up a lot of the minutes there. But, you know, Sam Presti made a very clear when he talked to the media last week and, you know, even right after the Lue trade, when he talked to Jess Martinez of the Oklahoma, and that it is saving now to position themselves to be able to spin later. Hashtag please Clay Bennett. You starting that hashtag? Yeah. And

look, Kaysen Wallace is front of the line in both of those regards. I did ask Dagonal if he envisions Kaysen as a starter. And I thought this might be a circumstance where he would say something like it's

you know, that that role is certainly his to seize or something. But he said, you know, like, you know, I don't reveal my starting line up. I said, that's pregame. Like, we're a month plus before the season, which I actually did the math wrong. It's only a few weeks, but whatever. Anyways, he basically said he started a lot of games without giving me a direct answer. But clearly, you know, like Casein Wallace is going to have a chance to seize that starting job.

And then he's in the midst of extension discussions. which, you know, he said the right things about that. It's up to my agent and say, and Presti, blah, blah, blah. I say, you know, have you paid attention to the extensions that have been signed by some of your rookie classmates? He said, not too much, but shout out Keante. Now, Keonté, George, they're DFW natives, both of them.

Yeah. Keontay from Louisville, Louisville, Fight, and Farmer. It's Louisville, not Louisville. Lewisville, L.E.D. Because it's interesting, in Ohio area where I'm from, they also have a Lewisville, pronounced Louisville, not Louisville. Right. So the Lewisville Leopard, shout out.

Oh, Lewisville fighting farmers. And then Kaysen was, is Richardson Eagle. But, you know, they've known each other for a while. So much has been just shout out to, they go way back. And might also be like, hey, you know, hey, notice he got five years 155 plus. You know, it's not a bad number. Yeah. I don't want to put words in Kaysen's.

But if that gets offered, I would I would highly suggest he accept. And listen, if, and Kaysen's in a great spot because he's either going to get an extension done now or he's going to be a coveted, restricted free agent next year. You know, the question, well, he's without question, one of the elite defensive guards and league. I mean, he's all defensive team last year, tied for the league in steals or tied for steals per game, whatever it was. And then there was a flash there when it was when Dub was out.

It was when Shea was out. I don't recall if AJ Mitch was, I think he might have been down at the time too. But there was that stretch in, you know, after the All-Star break where over the span of several games, he had to be their lead playmaker and he averaged like 20 points and seven assists. Now, I don't expect to put up those numbers with a full ROS, with a full OKC Rost. But my point is he's flashed that he's not just an elite defender, but he can do some things with the ball in his hands as well.

So, you know, I would anticipate his future will be an OKC, but wherever it is, he's going to make a lot of money. Yeah, so, you know, look, I think the Thunder have no reason to not be very optimistic about their chances. I think some of the interesting things I saw today, number one, Shea, basically putting it out there that he thinks that he hasn't maxed out as a player.

And I think also the lengths that the organization have gone to, not the lengths, not like it was a strategy, but obviously a lot of people are getting asked about Chet Holmgren. Sam Presti got asked about Chet Holmgren last week. Some player, you know, Chet, like, not that it's like,

shocking that you would get worked over by Victor Wimbonyama. Victor works over lots of guys. But, you know, he had a tough conference finals last year. I mean, game seven was just was absolutely, it was just a brutal way to be eliminated for him, no question. You know, clearly not Chet's favorite topic, but he handled the question is fine. And I have some kind of, what's your process after that?

Like, think about the last two years. You know, this time last year, he's coming back off of a championship, you know, a championship where he felt like there was more meat on the bone, so to speak, for him in terms of his performance. But played a key role in a championship after coming back from that fractured hip that sidelined him for so long, or pelvis, whatever was. And then so there's, you know, he dealt with the emotions of the championship and got back and had his best year. And now he has to deal with really, like, just we can say it, like being humiliated, you know, in the conference finals by a guy who seems to take great pride and pleasure in getting the best to him.

And I thought he gave a very mature answer. And he basically, you know, he's like, he's not trying to hide from it. Like he's not trying to duck it. But he basically says it's the same process, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, deal with the emotions, whether they're the high of one in the championship or the low of having that kind of exit and get to a baseline and go back to work. You know, honestly, I don't think for Chet, the question is how he'll respond, like, how he'll bounce back.

Like, I expect him to have a great year. The question is like, he was all NBA last year. Yeah, he had a great year last year, a terrible ending. Like, that's it. Look, let's be honest. The question, how does he deal with Wimby? And you can't answer that on me today. You've got to do it on the floor.

Exactly right. But let's just be honest. Okay, this is not meant to be insulting. Chet Holmgren isn't the player that Victor Wemianama is. No. Neither is anybody else in the league. If he goes up against him 10 times, he's probably going to get his nose bloodied quite a bit.

Yeah. But obviously he's got to give a better performance than he. I mean, that can be true. Mm-hmm. You don't have to outscore, out-rebound, outblock him to beat him. Right. And it's also can be true

that his performance in the conference finals is unacceptable for a player of his caliber. All of these things can be true. And again, he's not ducking that. He's not saying, you're saying, you know, I don't know why. Chuck Holmgren has ducked much in his life. No.

But like, listen, game seven, it's not just the lack of aggression. A max player cannot go 33 minutes in an elimination game and get up two shots and grab four rebounds. Like that just can't happen. And, you know, like in the wake of that game, Dagonal, try to say, oh, you know, he did some other things well, you know, like he played well defensive.

No, like he's got to have, he's got to have his presence felt more than that. And he knows it. Now, how can you have your presence felt more when, you're dealing with a seven-foot-six guy who is that dominant of the defensive presence. That's something for Chet to try to figure out. That's something for, you know, the Thunder as a team and a coaching staff to try to figure out. And you know what? First crack comes opening night.

Absolutely. Just in case you, just in case you, you know, thought you were going to ease into things. Ain't no easing in. And look, the simple fact of the matter is, if Sam Presti gets his wishes and this team is funded to have continuity from this point moving forward through what should be an extended window as a contender, you know, it's itty-bitty Oklahoma City, but they are front and center in the NBA conversation. There's going to be that kind of scrutiny and spotlight and pressure and whatever. you want to call it on this team and you know it'll be on Shea it'll be on Chad it'll be on dove like those three guys in particular that's just going to be that's that's part of the equation

it's you know it comes with the dinner of being max players who have won a championship um so i have this you know i've got many things the older i get the more i come up with and one of them is that oklahoma city is never desperate so they're challenged. They lost some players are not desperate. And they're in great position. Yes.

And again, they lost players, they lost people. That's really what they were, what they're dealing with is they lost people. They lost, important parts of the fabric of the organization. They lost honestly poster boys

for their development program. an undraft the guy who became one of the best defense players in the league, a 55th overall pick who became an important role player on a championship team, a waiver-wire pickup who became an important player on a championship team. And they'll miss those guys and they'll see them when they play and they'll, you know, they've got each other's numbers and they'll talk and the relationships will continue. But this is still one of the deepest teams in the league.

It's still one of the most, I mean, so deep, I forgot to mention Jerry McCain. You know, a guy who made a lot of big. shots in the playoffs. A guy who also, you know, as you're looking at the spinning list, I mean, it's casing right now. A.J. Mitchell's going to be soon. McCain will be soon. Like, those three guys are all quality players and, you know, the first two especially are going to get paid. And it'll either be here somewhere, but they will be paid. But, and they still are way out in front in terms of picks. I mean, good Lord, what a miserable day for the lippers out for many miserable days.

All right. Well, hang on. It's later on this podcast. But guess who's got the swap rights this year? It's in the podcast. We know. Okay. You weren't here for that part. I'm sorry.

I was doing my job. I know. I'm just saying like I got it covered. And they got Dallas swap rights the year after and so on and so they got some Denver picks out. You know, like there's no reason. Real quick. Speaking of Denver, real quick.

I just want to get this in. Yokic said today, I will sign next year if they'll still want me. Yeah. So. I mean, listen, the idea that Joker is. I got a text from somebody in Denver saying, how come that headline didn't show up on ESPN? And it's because he said this before. We're just, you know, we're just verifying it.

Yeah. And listen, that's fair. the news is out and it's not surprising and he's going to sign for the biggest contract I would just say he can sign today if he's allowed to sign today if he wants

right but by waiting he signs the bigger and he's explained it it's a very this is a business decision to maximize his earnings I understand which does not maximize the Nuggets chances of winning another championship all right

it doesn't minimize it minimizing it would be able to see what happens I just he said it I'm denoting it. I don't want to be accused of not denoting it. We just didn't have anybody in our crew in Denver today. So, all right, on to the next. Now we welcome, at long last, from San Antonio, Texas, Michael Corleone Wright. Ooh.

Fellas, how y'all doing? McMahon, he's still got the mustache. I mean, that's why I'm booing. It looks terrible. Looks great. Who's the dude? Go like that, see if it'll come off. It's not coming up.

It's there, baby. All right, you were with the Spurs today. Okay, this GQ story came out, which I have to imagine when Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle started doing this GQ story. They didn't know it was going to make news. But what was going on with this today? What was the fallout from that at Media Day? I wouldn't say there was any fault out really, Brian, but I will say there were a bunch of questions whether those questions were posed to Ms. Johnson, the coach, DeAron Fox, Dylan Harper, even Stefan Castle kind of fielded questions about it. And it felt like Dylan sort of backpedaled a little bit off that.

Let's just, in case people haven't seen it, it's really just one little exchange in the story. and Harper's asked, you don't actually think you're going to come off the bench, do you? He said, what's the political answer here? Harper says, looking down at my recorder again. He calibrates his voice into its cheerious pitch. I'm going to do whatever the team needs me to do, man. If that's come off the bench, he stops.

That's crazy. F no. But he said the whole word rhymes with duck. I ain't coming off no bench. And then Castle says, bro, all you got to know is you're going to be

in the starting line up, be ready to hoop. And really, all this is, like, we know Dylan Harper's not trying to come off the bench after doing it his rookie year.

We know the Spurs are going to have to figure out a way to have, I believe, the three guards in the starting lineup. And then, frankly,

how do you close games on a night-to-night basis? Like, if you don't close, with all three, that, like, that's going to be a thing too. Now, is it a nice problem to have, to have a proven All-Star and Dearon Fawkes and two rising stars in Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper and have to figure out the fit? A lot of teams would like to have those problems.

But it's not nothing for the spurs. And again, they got to figure out how do you start those three and how do you make the rotation work? What do you do with closing lineups? Like, this is something that a young. head coach needs to manage. Yeah. And Mitch, he was dancing today, baby.

Who? He, boy, he had them dance the shoes on today. And it was like, he basically said, like, I'm going to find spots to play all three of those guys. And we're going to play that three-guard lineup more than we did last season. We can do it a whole lot less. Exactly. They had like 25 minutes all last season.

And like I said, were something like a negative net rating of minus 27 or something like that. Yeah, then it was like another 40 in the playoffs and it was a similar net rating. It's tiny sample sizes, but still, yeah, you can have to figure out spots at the beginning of every first quarter and the beginning of every third quarter. And then again, I'm curious about a couple things. How do they handle who's starting at the four, right? Because we know who's starting at five and I believe we know one through three or,

one and a half, one and a half and two, whatever that adds up to. And again, is there a consistent closing lineup? Is that game by game? How does that look? Well, and also, like, I think Tobias Harris starts at the four. But if you're going to play that three-gar lineups, somebody got to sit down. That's somebody, is it going to be Devin Vassell, who is one of your best shooters? I don't know.

Is it Julian Champany? If Tobias Harris is starting at the four, then it's both. That's what I'm saying. It's a good problem to have, but it is a problem. Yeah, for sure. And then also, I mean, and we're forecasting looking way out, but at some point you got to pay him. Well, yeah.

Financially, how much sense, I'm just saying, you got Deeran, he's about to start his mags deal. Steph is about to get a max deal or whatever. they're doing these days, the Fun Max or whatever. But then Dylan Harper's going to come up too. And I would think at that point, maybe they've done something with Deeran. I don't know. But it's a good problem right now, but it could get really pricey in the future.

Three guys on that team that I believe will be there a decade plus now moving forward. And Deeran Fox obviously is not one of those three. Now, Wimby eased the financial pressure on them with the deal. that he took. I think maybe that might bump that back a year. But the really the problem isn't that you've got to start all three. It's do do they fit together as a as a trio? And again, they clearly didn't feel super confident about that last year because they barely ever played them. And I think a lot of that's going to come down to is how much has Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper improved is catch and shoot three point guys.

Yeah. And how much has Dylan improved at reading defenses and things like that? That way he can take on more of a role of facilitation, sort of like what Deering Fox does. We'll see. We'll see. But, you know, so far, I've heard good things about what Dylan has done in the gym, but what else do you hear in the summer? You don't hear so-and-so really suck this summer. You don't hear that.

Yeah. You always hear good things. So I just say let's wait and see, but this is one that we are going to be watching closely throughout the whole season. We're going to have to keep our eyes on this one. All right. What about the big man, Victor Wemidiyama? Because let's not forget, you know, not to start with, you know, with the secondary guys. But not that those guys are secondary, but, you know what I mean?

Like Victor, obviously, he, his. summer is always very closely paid attention to. And he played for France this summer, had some moments, had some moments where he didn't look great, honestly, but had some moments where he looked great. What did he have to say? I thought the biggest thing that he said, basically, was that he is not over that loss in the finals. Good. And you know, Vic is a guy that, what was a quote he said, something like I refuse to, um, uh, what I, refuse to let my emotions or hiding my emotions be a burden or whatever. And so he said he has some day.

The IT department love that quote. Golly. Hey, I see the toxic. That was after he was, that I know, that was after he was boo-hooing because they beat the clippers in a regular season. Right. But he said that,

that there were nights where he had trouble sleeping. And another thing that I really thought was interesting is like he had those guys over to Paris in August. He had like 10 of those guys. He said it was really touching and emotional to him. And later on, you know, throughout media days, Stefan Castle talked about how like, they had some pretty tough emotional talks during that time together in France. And, you know, obviously all these things are the things that galvanize the team coming off a disappointing, heartbreaking loss in the finals. Harrison Barnes said they had shared heart. break. And so there's a lot of that. They're talking about that a lot, but then at the same time,

there's also the recognition and acknowledgement that it might be harder for those guys to get back to where they were this season. And so I thought all that stuff was interesting. Oh, Vic, do you know anything about vestibular activity? Exercise? Not even how to spell it. No, his vestibular system. That's what he said. He went and trained in the south of France. He did some rugby stuff. Train with the rugby team. He said it helped work his vestibular system.

I had to Google that, man. It's something with your inner ear. Really? Yeah. It's inner air like where your spatial awareness and your balance. He said it was just like a different pattern of movement. So that was one of the things he did over the summer too. So I'm trying to remember his mom who I love her name, Elodie.

great name she her job like she has she focused on I don't want to say that that's alternative but she focused like on focusing on different body systems that's a terrible way to explain it to me at one point and I can't remember it off the top of my head

but his mom like this is something I don't know for sure I'm just reacting to it in real time here that his mom would have focused on because this was one of the things that she was learned about and I got to look it up.

But anyway, that's what you say all the time when you talk to Vic. After you talk to him, I got to look at it up. I got to figure it out. Yeah, figure out what he just said. Right. But it was interesting stuff.

You know, one thing he did say, because they never talked about sort of where they stand in the West, but Victor did say that, look, they're like, we want to get to the top of the mountain, and there are people, teams that we're going to have to move out of the way to get there. He said, we just won the Western Conference, and we're not trying to do anything less than that. We want to be the number one seed. So there is, like they keep sort of shying away from expectation, but they do plan to be in competition for that number one seat in the West. And boy, it's going to be hard with Oklahoma City. I mean, they were in competition last year. It came right down to it.

Now, when they run in, when, I say, they run in Oklahoma City in the playoffs this year, it's probably going to be a better version of the Thunder than last season. Agreed. If Jaylon Williams is healthy, that is a better version of the Thunder. If A.J. Mitchell's healthy, that's a better version. I mean, you know, like, listen, the Thunder got beat in the series despite having home court advantage. The Spurs took the series, but that was a very limited offensive Thunder team. They had their second and third best offense creators out from the vast majority of that series.

Yeah, they had guys playing new roles, too. Like roles they weren't, you know, traditionally in. And, you know, Spurs sort of kind of got their, but you know what? I will say the Spurs don't win that series if DeAaron Fox does not come back and play. People tend to forget. Did those starts that Dylan Harper had early in that series, they were pretty bad. He had some pretty high turnover nights. I have to look that up.

But I'm pretty sure he had a bunch of turnover in those first two games of that series. Facial. Facial therapy. Okay. It focuses on the core fibrous building blocks that are made of collagen that go. They're like a spider web matrix. Okay, you said facial therapy, and I thought you were recommended that might get a razor and get rid of that dirty looking thing under his nose. I heard that car almost gave you some facial therapy the other day.

I was thinking about buying a man a cold beverage. Hey, if you were fine, tell him I got something for him too. Well, I was actually shocked at that story, though, because the old Timmy, I know, Timmy would have pulled dude out the car and there would have been like an altercation in the streets, but you're mellowed. out as you get older, I like that. That's the gray in my beard, my facial therapy. All right, Michael, right. Well, I feel like we're going to be seeing a lot of you on ESPN for the next nine months. So I hope you enjoyed your summer. It's over, buddy. Yeah, Spurs is going to be a, that's a spotlight team, man, for now and for a long time to come. Hey, OKC, too. So we will be talking a lot. All right. Thank you so much to everybody who joined us today.

Jamal Collier Vince Goodwill He goes by Vince now Michael Wright Eric Woodyard Ben Goliver Dave McMenneman Ramona Shelburne

Tim McMahon Who am I forgetting Jackson Jackson Agello Anthony Slater He's forgettable Our producers Devon Tucker Miles Mark and Jackson

and had to put all this, stitched all this together. How can we didn't invite Ome? That's right. Well, actually a couple things here to close out this podcast. Number one, our colleague, Oam Young Masuke, is leaving us to join the L.A. Clippers Broadcasting team. And his first order business was to fly to L.A. with the Clippers. They're going to go plant some palm trees.

That's right. So Ome was with ESPN for 16 years. We love them. You've heard him on this podcast. We wish him the best of luck. We're very happy for him. Also, I want to say two things. One, rest in peace to Bob Pettett.

Oh, man. Yes. By the way, just to be clear, a lot of people reached out after Bob Pettett's passing. He is a hoop collective legend, a Hall of Famer, first MVP in league history. When we recorded the pot on Friday, news had yet to break, which is why we didn't give him his proper respects in that point. It's been many days of, but I just like if if you hear of a fascinating stat that involves numbers like what player had this number of numbers always guess Wilts Chamberlain. If you hear of a fascinating stat of a player who had a bunch of accomplishments

guess Bob Pettett. Like in trivia. Okay. Because Bob Pettett's career was jam-packed with accomplishments. It's unbelievable. And the reason he kept coming up because guys kept messing with his records because he had so many of them. So rest in peace to Bob Pet. Also, we're a little bit late here on this, but also rest in peace to Lawrence Tanter, public address announcer of the Lakers. Well, I just called, when I saw him before every game, I just called him legend. I just referred to him as the legend because he was. Incredible voice. You know, the seventh. The seventh. My first Laker game was in 2003, Michael Wright, and that was Shat, Kobe, Carl Malone, Gary Payton, Lakers team.

What's my first Laker game? There have been legendary Lakers teams. That wasn't one of them. Well, but just the star power. Yeah, yeah. The star power. And, you know, they're playing, I love L.A. at the opening tip-off. There's Sylvester Stallone and Joe Pesci and Denzel

Washington and Jack Nicholson are all sitting within like 20 feet of me. The crowd was awesome. And Lawrence Tanter's voice booming over, I was like, this is, this is something to be at a lake game. You are a long way from Akron. I got it. I got it. I understood the power of the Lakers.

So in New York, I just, you know, my first time Madison Square Garden, it was just like, you know, boisterous. First time I was in L.A., it was start. And Lawrence Tanter was the soundtrack of that. So, man, we'll miss him dearly with the Lakers. So with all that, thank you so much for listening and watching the Hoop Collective. We are off to our world tour starting tomorrow. We're going to be in Melbourne later this week, and then Manila and then Macau.

And so we'll have some story-up content coming. You'll hear from us again later this week in Melbourne. By the way, keep an eye on the Hoop Collective show on Instagram. I'm sure Jackson's going to be cranking out all kinds of content documenting our journey on there. And we'll see you soon, mates and Adios amigos.