Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - The True Contenders In The Eastern Conference + A Historic Rookie Of The Year Battle

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the Thunder getting a big win over the Knicks before talking if New York is an actual contender for the NBA Finals this season. Plus, we break down some high profile battles in the Eastern Conference standings down the stretch of the season including the emergence of the 76ers. Finally, we tackle this historic Rookie Of The Year race between Cooper Flagg and Kon Knueppel and react to the NBA’s tanking proposals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. of the Hoop Collective podcast, we talk about the NBA, which we're doing late on Sunday evening. It's almost Monday morning. Joining us from New York City, where he attended the Brooklyn Nets game against the Sacramento Kings, which actually had significant implications because it's two teams are next to each other in the tankathon standings, Timbontemps.

Yeah, there was big tankthon stakes at play in Brooklyn tonight, and everybody at the arena was watching Duke Yukon in the unbelievable ending that we saw in that game. Absolutely. Joining us from Oklahoma City, where he watched The Thunder, take another team down in clutch time when they beat the New York Knicks on Sunday evening, is Band McMahon. Howdy, partners, I come to you from the green room for musicians who play concerts here at the Paycom Center. We've got all you can see behind me. I was going to watch some guitars behind you.

I was wondering the lights keep changing. Yeah, we've got some mood light and there's guitars. There's like various string instruments. Brascoe Flats is in there a couple days ago. Listen, they've got like all kinds of percussion, keyboards and it's kind of fitting because the old New York Knicks were on the floor tonight playing the blues playing the blues and Mike Brown got quite a heated technical foul. I thought he was about we close to getting tall. Yes, we all saw you on television, watch something and trying to get a

little ear in there. I'll tell you why they thought we were playing the hits down the stretch of the game with Shea going crazy in clutch time like we've seen many times this year. By the way, isn't Jim Dolan, isn't the blues? Isn't that what his band plays? Maybe. Maybe. But there was whining and crying by the Knicks, and Mike Brown called him out and said that the Knicks expended too much energy on the referees tonight. Boy, I'll tell you what, death taxes and the visiting coach commenting on the officiating in Oklahoma City.

Oh. And the Thunder winning. Don't leave that part now. There is that part. Now, Shea did take about as many free throws as the entire Knicks team. And I couldn't get a straight. The feeling I got, I couldn't, you know, Brunson was being politically correct. I think Brunson was was perturbed about calls he wasn't getting more than calls that Shea and the Thunder were getting.

Okay, yes. So free throws for Shea was 16. Brunson had four. However, and I guess if you're a Knicks fan, you'll disagree. I didn't feel like the fourth quarter, like, you know, Shea came back with it with six and a half left. and it was a two or three-point game? Two-point game, yeah. Did you feel that there were controversial Shea calls on the stretch? I didn't.

I mean, maybe earlier. Yeah, Mike Brown-based, he said, Shea's the best in the league of that kind of gamesmanship, which you say games and shit, foul being, whatever. Basically, when there's contact, Shea is very good at one drawing contact and two, making sure that contact is noticed. Shea really, he didn't shoot well at all against Chicago the other night.

In a game, the Thunder pulled away late. he didn't shoot it well for three and a half quarters tonight and then the fourth quarter you know was an MVP closed by him the thing about the MVP is that like when you have the conversation the comparison comes up and and you know what ends up the you know for decades the conversation devolves into you're you're trying to put down one guy like yeah i'm not trying to do that i know you're not how how am i supposed to watch shay in this game do this for like the 17th time this year and not like just be like my god i mean

again if victor has like seven jaw-dropping highlights a night and shay it just comes in and just rips people's hearts out like i i don't have to say yeah what i got to say you can talk about the facial expression well that and you could talk about the rest all you want if you're if you're a nick fan however jalen makes a bucket with 440 seven to go makes it 97 95 the next time the knicks scored a field goal was when jalen hit a bucket was just under a minute to go and by then it was 109 to 98 yeah like they went on a 12 to one run when the game was in the balance and much of that was shea either setting up shots or making shots well what happened was carl towns was actually having some success they were getting you know he was

getting a small guy in the post. They were throwing it down. He actually made a couple of baskets. He just doesn't, he has these games where he just is not a part of the offense, which, you know. Tonight was one of them for three quarters. He was two or two from the floor through the third quarter. Right. So they start the fourth quarter. They start, they get switches. They're throwing the ball to him in the post. He makes two or three baskets. Then they bring in Caruso, and they put Caruso on him, the same way they put Caruso on Wembaum. And that. on Joker in game seven. Yeah.

And look, Caruso fights the guys in the post. And Caruso's essentially playing defensive center down the stretch of this game. And Caruso is guarding towns. So when they want to go to the town's Brunson pick and roll, the thunder were like, go ahead. Like, we're going to switch it. And Caruso's fighting. There's one moment late in the game. The game was already decided, but there's one moment late in the game where I think Brunson took

a shot. Maybe it was Ananoi takes a shot. And Caruso is right there with Towns for the rebound. Towns has 18 rebounds in this game. I'm not saying he wasn't rebounding. And they both go for the ball and Caruso tips it to a teammate and wins the rebound basically. He's like, I'm giving up

six inches, five inches to the guys. It's just a definitional Alex Caruso play. And he looks over at the bench and flexes and is like, you know. Yeah. It's why the entire league went insane when the Bulls traded him to Oklahoma City and just got back.

How's that Bulls Jade and Ivy trade looking, by the way? That's so great. I hope Jay and Ivy's doing okay.

There's some stuff on social media that he's posting about that's well, you know, I don't know. I don't have any

insight there. I just want to, you know, as long as we're mentioning the Bulls. You know, Caruso, one,

Kat did mention that he would like to get more post touches when he's got a size mismatch like that. And I asked

what's preventing him from getting those touches. And he kind of said, well, you know, just the game plan, what we're trying to do offensively. So he made it clear he'd like to get more post touches just in case you guys were wondering about that. But, you know, Cruz, obviously, his values primarily just he's one of the best, most versatile, most disruptive defenders in the NBA. But tonight, looking at his, he only made two shots, but two or four from three point range. it's good for Caruso

and to see some go down it's good for Thunder fans to see him hit some threes he's been going into tonight he's been 17% from three point range after the All-Star break and I do believe come playoff time you know I think opponents are going to make Caruso prove that he can hit threes

and you know what the guys played in a bunch of big games with four multiple championship rings. I don't doubt that he can hit him when they count, but I think that he's going to have to prove that he can. Yeah, the Knicks fans were not thrilled that Mohamed Diwara didn't play almost any minutes in this game tonight, but I'm not sure

that Mo DiR. Wara is out there that he's going to stop Shea. I mean, they have elite wing defenders. Nobody stops Shea. Well, and again, they, like, Shea, I think at one point was three or 13s, at least four or 14. Right. And he just got it going down the stretch. I mean, they guarded him very well. He was getting to the line, but they guarded him well, the vast majority of the game.

You know what? I say that. When he was 4 or 14, I remember thinking four or five of those were like short jumpers or mid-range jumpers that tend to be layup type of shots for him. So some of it was he just missed some shots usually hits. But he was at least kept under wraps for the majority of the game and just not the last five minutes. Well, and then when the game matters, he scores or assists. Yeah, he scored or assists on 14 consecutive points. Like, that's, that's the deal.

Okay, so they go to, they go to towns three or four times in the post. He gets some baskets. And then when you're in crunch time, they go to the Brunson Town's pick and roll. Are they supposed to go to straight town's postups there? because you're not supposed to have Brunson in the... I mean, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just trying to diagnose what's being said there. Do they not want Brunson to operate in the pick and roll?

That's how he's won, like, he's won them like 75 games the last three years doing that. Yeah, I just know Kat would like to get more post touches. You know, how exactly those materialize? He didn't delve into specifics. I think any time he was a competitive game in the closing minutes, and you don't score, people are going to be frustrated. I think that's all it is. Yeah, I think that's true.

You know, the thing about the Knicks, you know, they played seven sort of easy games in a row. They won all seven. And now they've played, you know, two more potent teams, Charlotte and Oklahoma City, and they lost. And that looks bad, you know. It's just, you know, the Knicks, I've said this a couple of times throughout the season. You look at the checklist of what you need as a championship team. they check a lot of boxes.

Check a lot of them. Are you picking them to beat Boston the second round? They check a lot of boxes, but... Not enough boxes, McMahon. Yeah. Look, the Knicks, like all these teams in the East at the top, are good but flawed. So what you could say about Detroit,

so you could say about Boston, so you could say about the Knicks, you can say about the Cavs. They're all good. They're all flawed. I think as of right now, we would all pick Boston. More Hoop Collective Podcast.

What are the Celtics flaws at this point on a day that Tatum had? What do you finish with? 30, whatever. Jason Tatum. So Jason Tatum has really struggled shooting the ball. Coming into today, he had a great game. No, Jalen Brown, no Derek White. In Charlotte.

Charlotte playing second night of a back-to-back. This is a potential first-round series. Could be. Charlotte had a really intense game on Saturday night with Philly. We'll talk about that in a bit. But obviously the Celtics down a couple guys. They're on a back-to-back Monday night in Atlanta. See what happens in that game.

Another potential first round series for the Celtics. But Tatum had struggled. He'd been under 50% every single game he had played so far. Ends up going 12 for 23. He had 32 and 8, 8 assists, no turnovers. I was going to say, 8 assists, no turnovers. 12, 23, 5 of 10 from 3 point range. I mean, 32 and 8 efficiently with no turnovers when they had their,

the guys who've been their two best players all season long, not in the lineup. Yeah, I mean, for him to have a... It was a great time for him to have a game where some shots were. Payton Pritchard had one of his games. Yeah, Peyton Pritchard is a hell of a player. But look, if you're poking holes in the Celtics,

right, one is that Tatum, to this point, has not had his usual level of burst and pop athletically, which is totally understandable coming off the Achilles, but he has come back, you know, like I wrote about last week, he's playing with a 31 usage, like he's right back to being Jason Tatum from a usage standpoint without really having the efficiency to go with it.

Now, today he hit shots, which has been a welcome change. Like I said, if he starts shooting 50% from the field again, Celtics are going to be in really good shape. But look, we saw the Celtics last year lose to the Knicks by sort of falling into the three-point heavy, don't really get into the paint, sort of the tropes that have ended up costing them at times in the past with this Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, led group, and they don't have

Drew Holiday, Chris Asper, Zingas, Al Horford, Lou Cornett to fall back on this year. Right. You're going to be asking guys to play roles that they haven't played before. However, they're front three guys, and I'm going to say front four, because I'm including

Pritchard. Sure. You should. They all been there. They all done that. It's pretty good. Yeah, they've all been there, and they've all done it. None of these other teams in the East have and I'm picking them right now to win the east but I don't think they're certainly not an unassailable favorite we've given con canipple a straight steady uh heap of praise for months on end and rightly so the games that are coming up are going to be chips on the table games there was a chip on the table game today and he had a stinker yeah and he wasn't great against philly either

which is fine i'm like i'm not i'm not but i'm just saying like yeah and he was and he was rough and he was Saturday night, too. To your point. Three for 14 from the field, Saturday, five for 13 on Sunday. In two games that obviously, if Charlotte wins both those games, they got a shot to maybe get up into the top six. Now, you know, it's looking more the other way.

Let's take a look at the sort of the middle of the midfield. So if they say in F1, Bontemps, like the midfield, is that what they call it? They say it in the Premier League standings where Tottenham is where? Tadnum is the midfield. dreaming in the midfield. By the way. Tottenham is about to have their third manager in six weeks. So how about that for...

It's not great. Can you imagine, I mean, can you imagine an NBA team firing two coaches in the same season? I mean, I'm surprised Vivek hadn't done it yet. I'd have an interim guy. Seriously, like Vivek's had 14 coaches in six years or whatever the hell it's been. You would never have... Very unlikely to happen because, but, you know, obviously in... in European soccer, you get demoted from the league,

which is what Tottenham's on the verge of, my team. But that's neither here nor there. But looking at the midfield, two teams I want to talk about. Well, I guess three, because Toronto, you know, I got to give Toronto credit. So Toronto played Orlando in a fairly important game this afternoon in Toronto. And look, the game is in Toronto. It's Orlando and the Raptors. It's not, you know, it was going on during that Michigan, Tennessee.

game. You know, you had to be a pretty hardcore fan to be. Let's just say this. Tennessee put up a better fight against Michigan. The point is, Orlando is, you know, a couple of days ago, they were in 10th. And they're only not in 10th right now because Charlotte had a bad weekend and so did Miami. Miami lost to the Pacers on Sunday. And Miami is routinely giving up 125 to 140 points. What happened to heat culture? Put the paragraph back in the paint for those 80s. Listen, listen, set that part aside. All BAM has been saying for the last two or three months is, I don't want to be in the bleep and play-in in some form or fashion over and over again.

And I'm sorry, Bam. Looks like you're going to be into playing. Listen, the good news might be that one of those teams has to win the 9-10 game. Somebody's got to win the Florida State Championship game. 31 to nothing is rough. So Toronto and Orlando are in a dog fight to avoid the play-in. The calves have pretty much solidified that they're going to be the four seed. They could New York come in.

But we know the top four are going to be. Five through 10 is loose. I don't really think Miami or Charlotte are going to come up there. But Orlando is fighting to stay out of the plan. No, Orlando is fighting to stay out of the 9-10 at this point. I apologize. Well, that's... Yeah.

Okay. The point is this was a big game. This was a big game. Okay. And I know Orlando is not 100% healthy, but by the way, neither is Toronto. Toronto is missing some starters in this game. Yeah, I mean, I lost by 52 and gave up a 31-0-0. All right. Well, we hadn't got to that point yet. So the- Well, what was the-get there?

Let's get to the important cards. I'm setting it up, but, you know, I hadn't. Let me see what the freaking final was because it was 52 points. All right, 139-87. And what did Moses say after the game? I mean, he did the, hey, put this one on me. I didn't have my team prepared for the physicality. You know how they show the before and after photos of presidents?

Like this is what they look like when they were elected. This is what they look like after four years. Jamal Mosley, he's getting more white hairs by the week in that beard. He looks like a Florida resident. But when he says, I didn't get him ready for the physicality. that is the most indirect way to say my team is soft that I've ever heard. Well, he's, he's blaming himself for it. I mean, that's an old Rick Carlisle trick.

I take the blame and, you know, calling his team out. Well, Palo Bancaro was horrendous in this game. Horrendous. Three of 14, five turnovers. Just not kidding it done. Not kidding it done. Dude, they are, they squeaked out a win over the Kings to snap, I think, what was it, a seven game losing streak, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, and then they won by four, I mean, they are squeaking out a win over the Kings away from a really long losing streak.

And to squeak that out and then followed up by losing to 52, by 52 points. They gave up a 30, 310 run in the second of the first quarter. Toronto is a solid team, but it's not like the Raptors have been rolling. That is an embarrassment. In fact, you're going up a buck 39 to a Toronto team that's not a great shooting team. I mean, it's, it's an indictment, it's not great, and it smells like quit. It doesn't, it doesn't smell good, that's for sure. And, you know, I mean, this weekend, really, like, we came into the weekend and, you know,

you're saying, Brian, how bunched up the east from five to, 10 is, it's not really that bunched up anymore. I mean, with Miami having this just absolutely awful loss to Indiana on Sunday night with the Hornets having two games that could have been wins for them, home against Philly on Saturday night. And then, again, Boston's really good, but no Jason, no Jalen Brown, no Derek White.

And you drop both those games. Those teams are now with 36 losses. and the Sixers and Hawks are 33 and the Raptors are 32. Like it's much more likely now that those three teams are fighting for five to seven. And Miami, Orlando, and then Miami and Charlotte are trying to go from 8 to 10. I just want to talk about Miami. In the last couple weeks, Miami has given up 136 to the Hornets in a loss, 134 to the Lakers in a loss, 123 to the Rockets in a loss,

136 to the spurs in a loss. They beat the calves, then gave up 149 to the calves in a loss, and 135 to the Pacers in a loss. Like, I'm sorry. Miami is an absolute defensive debacle right now, and it's stunning. So the heat, as we're recording this, the heat are in ninth place. On Monday night, they are hosting the team I'd like to talk about, the seventh place, Philadelphia, 76ers who have won six of eight games. And on Saturday night, Tyrese came back from injury.

And for the first time in two months, Maxi, Embed, Paul George, all in the lineup. And Kelly Ubre is back, who, I mean, Kelly Uri's become an important player for them. And he'd been out for weeks with a knee injury too. Kelly Ubre, I mean, I know he's an imperfect player. He's an unrestricted free agent. Yeah. So was Clinton Grimes. There's not exactly like, and this isn't about him with the 76. I mean, there's not exactly a ton of available two-way wings.

Oh, he's reestablished. I mean, remember, a couple of years ago, Kelly Ubray was a 20 point per game score in Charlotte who had no market at all. He had to take the minimum. He took the minimum from Philly and he didn't sign, I think, until September. I remember, I talked to a team that I thought was interested in him. and it was like July 2nd or 3rd, and he didn't have a place. And I talked to a team.

I said, hey, are you still interested in Newbray? And the GM was like, Kelly was going to have to try again next year. He was slightly what he said. I was like, wow. Yeah, I mean, he's completely rehabilitated his career and turned himself into a really solid, dependable role player in Philly. But anyway, like all of a sudden,

they're like eight-ish players, deep and kind of potent. I mean, they've got as much star power as any team in the East. If they're all healthy, it's a big if, and it have been often. It's impossible to count on it. It's impossible. We were sitting here at the All-Star break, coming out of the break. You had Joel and Bede's sideline.

You had Paul George shortly there after that around then get hit with this 25 game suspension. Maxie then gets the freak injury on his finger. Ubre had a knee sprain, had a freak collision, hurt his knee. Like, you looked at him at that point, and we set on the pod. We're like, look, these guys, very likely they're probably going to be either in the 9-10 or hoping to avoid the 9-10. But if they're down there and they're healthy at the end of the regular season and they got to win two games, they could be a team that could be a problem in the first round for somebody if they have everybody available. And now, not only are they in that spot, they're a game out of fifth.

And by the way, if you're the Cavs, if you're the Knicks, if you're Boston, like I'm not saying that Philly's going to beat any of those teams. But to your point, big man, if they're healthy going into the playoffs, I don't want to see a Tyrese Maxie, Joel and beat Paul George healthy team in the first round. Like, that's a lot of, that is a lot of star power. And a coach who's obviously a Nick Nurse who's won a title, won a lot of playoff games. Like, it's not an easy, that's not an easy draw for somebody.

So I didn't see the game on Saturday, attempts, I think you were watching it. I was. So those three, Maxi, George, and Embed had 81 points, 26 rebounds, 12 assists. I don't even think they, it sounded like they didn't even play that well. I thought Charlotte played pretty damn well. Well, I mean, Maxie was good. I mean, Charlotte, Brandon Miller came out like an absolute human torch.

I think he had 16 in the first quarter. And they, Charlotte jumped up by 10 or 15. And from like the end of the first quarter until midway through the fourth, the sixers kind of just kept chipping away at the lead, eventually got ahead. Then Lamello made some shots late, looked like that might be what would get Charlotte to win. And then in the final 90 seconds, he had a couple rough plays. Paul George Joalabeed and Tyre S maxi each got fouled on consecutive possessions by the Hornets. They made their free throws, at least sort of.

I think they went four for six. and Philly ultimately survive with a huge win. But if they can beat if they can beat the heat Monday night, I think they then have the Wizards at home and they, on Wednesday, and at least, I should say, in Washington,

but it would give them a real opportunity to get out of the play in. And if there is a team that needs the week off to make sure their guys are ready to go, it's the Sixers. Like again, this is not a team that needs to be playing extra games. True.

If they could somehow get to fifth or sixth, you know, and get that week off. By the way, we've mentioned this a couple times. The fact that Philly has roared back into the picture, it makes those two games between Cleveland and Atlanta in the third and second and last games of the season, quite fascinating to see what the calves do in those games. Either A, do they try to stay ahead of

or leapfrog the Knicks and win those games, or do they potentially try to make sure they stay in four and possibly also avoid getting Philly if things line up in a certain way? It's going to be very interesting. You see how the calves handle those. The calves potentially could have Atlanta, Detroit, Boston, slash New York,

or Philly, Boston slash New York, then possibly Detroit, which would you, pick if you could pick. No offense to anybody. All I will say is, I mean, you can draw that up if you want. I will go back to 2014 when the Nets totally chickened out of playing the Chicago Bulls in the first round, tank their way into playing the Raptors in the first round

on purpose because the year before Jokkeem Noah on one leg had beat the Nets by himself, which is what led to the Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce Strait. and then the Nets played a hard-fought series against the heat and lost in five games when the heat were healthy. And in the conference finals, when I think they were a better team than Indiana that year, Dwayne Wade was playing on one leg and the series won seven games, and the Nets might have made the finals.

And I always bring that example up as a reminder that, yeah, you could try to game out the playoffs to win a round or to win two rounds. But to me, if you're good enough to win, to win, you don't need to try to mess with the matchups to get a more favorable matchup. You should just play who's in front of you. So, Atlanta had, so Toronto was undefeated against the Cavs this year,

but all of the games were over before Thanksgiving. Doesn't mean that they wouldn't do it again in the playoffs, but like the Cavs are vastly different team. Atlanta has the hardest schedule coming in. largely they only play one tanker because they just played them all I know back to back to back my prediction is Atlanta

but that's predicated on the calves going full power in those two games yes my prediction is Atlanta will be in the plan but it does it does come down to those games like what are they going to do Atlanta and Philly out Philly

No I think Philly will be in the I think Philly will be in five or six That's what I'm saying out of the plan top six Oh out of the playing Yeah, I think Toronto, as of now, yeah, I think it will be top sixers in the other way. Toronto has some tankers on that schedule. They got Brooklyn, Sack, and the Grizzlies.

Toronto's got a decent shot at five. Well, if Toronto had lost today, you know, because Toronto has two games with the heat as well. Where are you putting them? Listen, man, that's what I'm saying. Like, there's all these tankers and then there's the sad state of Florida. Like, these Florida teams are disasters right now. Well, let me just say that because we talked about C Cigiple going four of 16 over the weekend. Lamello just to, I just want to, Lamello was 8 of 30 from 3.

Yeah, and Lamello, he got hot there in the fourth quarter to kind of give the Hornets a chance to pull it out against the Sixers. But it was, I've had to dial way back on my Lamello criticism this year because he has been a massive factor. in Charlotte's turnaround. That was overall a wet fart of a performance, though, against the Sixers for them. Yeah, they had a big weekend in Charlotte, and they just didn't get it done. Well, like, it's worth remembering the Hornets

had basically played one real game about his entire career, right? They played the one playing game. Well, no, they played two playing games. They got blown out both times. Okay, well, sorry, then two. I forgot about the second one. Did he play in both of them?

He played in one of them, at least. The point is they have not. Playing games once they happen, they don't exist anymore. That's true. You know what? That's true. So they, this is, you know, that was a huge, this was a huge weekend for them.

And like, you know, like Saturdays was a great game. Like, I don't really think they. No, as it was a great game. Lamello had some rough plays late, but I didn't feel like Charlotte like totally torched the game. No, Cniple had a bad shooting night. Lamello had a bad shooting night. Sixers pulled it out and won. But it was a great game.

But this is all really good experience points for a young team that's had a great turnaround. and it's got itself in a totally different place than we ever expect that they would be in. And these are the growing pains that you would expect them to have. And, you know, I hope they get into the playoffs because I think it would be awesome for a young team like this to get in the postseason and get some experience. And like, look, the way they play with the speed they play with, the threes they get up, the athleticism they have, you know, if they get Detroit in the first round with Cade banged up, or, you know, if they get the Knicks in the first round, like,

They're not going to be an easy team to play, even though I don't expect them to win a series. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Is there a better 24-and-under trio in the league than Lamello, Brandon Miller-Conn-Kinpple? I'd take the Spurs, guys. Yeah, that's fair. That is fair.

Separate of the Spurs guys. It's a short list. It's a short list. Who will be a better player in you? year after year three. Dylan Harper or Connoepple? I'm I am all in on Dylan Harper, so I will say Dylan Harper, but I think Connoffle's going to be really good, too. I don't know, man. Con Canipal has a chance to be. I think Conn's great. Clay Thompson-esque plus he's a, you know, well, Clay was a pretty damn good defense player

before the entries, but Caniple is not just a share. He does a lot of things at the shooting the ball. He's pretty damn good. Con's awesome, but I'm taking 6-6 point guard who's built like a tank and it's awesome. But again, I, this is a they're both, I think, going to be fantastic players.

Let me ask you this. Who's third on the rookie of the year ballot? I haven't. VJ. Yeah, VJ is it? I think so. That would be my guess. I haven't studied it. I, you know, the questions are you going who you put in first,

who you put in second and then whatever. I think VJ is a pretty, I mean, I'll double check the stats in case I'm like obviously forgetting somebody, but I think VJ is a pretty clear third behind Con and Cooper and whatever order you want to have, man. On Temtsey, you know, pretty soon there's going to be a straw pole.

Oh, that's correct. Would you consider adding rookie of the year to the straw pole? Perhaps that would be part of it. We'll see. Oh. Wow, that'd be great. Yeah, you know, there's going to be a straw pole coming up, the little MVP race, like the West Standings are tightening. Well, I was trying to talk about the rookie of the year race.

He just blasted over me. Oh, sorry. I'll just point out, OKC. He just keeps taking the wheel and yanking it to the left. There's minutes police in OKC. They're concerned that Wimby hasn't played that many minutes this year. Anyways, get back to rookie the year. Well, there is, there is, that is a thing that is happening in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the,

The pushback of the MVP thing was that Victor has played fewer minutes than LeBron, who is ineligible for the awards. And Victor, Victor is not yet eligible, but trending towards being eligible. And he's played, like, way less minutes than Cade. Although if Cade doesn't play again in the regular season, I think Victor is likely to pass. Which, by the way, I think is a very fair criticism. Yeah. Well, Victor is in this lane where he's played a bunch of games where he played over 20 minutes,

which is the threshold. Barely. But played like 24, 25. As McMahon has pointed out, he came back, he came back and was playing 20 minutes and two seconds. Which I'm not criticizing him for, but like, again, like if you're trying to make a decision on who to vote for for this award, like Victor's point the other day when he gave the soliloquy about how important defense is,

obviously is a very valid point in his favor. And the fact that he has not played nearly as many minutes as some of these other guys, I think is also a valid point against his candidacy. Absolutely. And look, I will just, this is what I say about all awards. I understand that the games in March and April feel more important. But when you are evaluating the award, you know, you should take into account the entire season. You know what also is an indication of value? The scoreboard when you're on the floor,

it's a good indication of value. There's only one person in the league who has a better overall plus minus than Victor Wimanyama. Now, it's his primary competition for the MVP, but Shea is plus 677 in 2,101 7 minutes. Wimby in a mere 1725 minutes is a plus 630 this year. It's crazy. just there was a as I watched today there was a she only hit one three in this game but there was a play you know he had gotten to the elbows um you know as he does in the fourth quarter and then they ran a pick and roll and they put towns in the pick and roll of course and towns sort of went and stood on the elbow and shay comes off the pick stares at town standing at the elbow is like oh okay and takes a half step back and hits a three you know he was in the run in the fourth quarter when they're winning the game and i'm just like The quote echoes in my head as I watch it. I have the answers. It's just I have to wait for the questions.

So they... It knows all the answers to the test. I mean, it's... Well, listen, I mean, the Spurs play Chicago Monday night. I think we can assume they'll beat the tanking bowls. And if they do, they'll finish up a two-month stretch in which they went 25 and 2. and they'll have gained one game in the standings. Yeah.

They've lost a game with Wimby on the floor since the start of February. Right. Well, the other side of that is, you know, the Thunder have gone like, you know, 20 and 2 and they've gained a game. They've only gained one game. They'll go in 25 and 2, and that's with the Thunder dealing with a lot of injuries. And I mean, we'll see where the straw pole is at when it comes out.

But I, you know, I suspect that it'll be a somewhat, similar order to the last time. And if Shea does win it, it's going to be because they held off the Spurs. Because if Victor, if the Spurs had gotten ahead of the Thunder, like I said at the time, I think Victor

would be in pretty decent shape. And he might still win anyway. I mean, he's incredible, but. I'm relieved Victor is playing in that game on Monday because the PGA tour is in San Antonio this week. How are we going to do golf and soccer talk? Texas Open.

What? Why? Where does Victor come into this? Well, I had, you know, some friends from the PGA tour asked me last week, like, we're going to buy tickets for this game. Some friends from the PGA tour, McMahon. Yes. And they said, hey, is, you know, do you think it's safe to buy a ticket for this game? You know, they're expensive. They're PGA people. They're rich. I know. They're very rich. That's true. That's not the point.

The point was they were trying to ask me what I thought. Victor will play in this game and I assess the situation and said, yes, I think Victor will play. Also, Victor is going to play in as many games as he can. That's right. He's got to make sure he gets his awards. I just wanted to make sure that there was no shenanigans and, you know, he's not on the injury report. Wendy, you wanted to talk rookie the year for this thing. I completely derailed.

Yeah, I know. You pushed it off. It was your thing. That's the one who has the keys. By the way, speaking, Pontefs, McMan and I went to dinner the other day. That's unfortunate. McMahon didn't pay for. Also, did you do that?

It's surprising. Neither did you. I just said McMahon didn't pay for it. And we went to this wonderful pizza place. You know, we got alligator arms twin tourist over there. We went to this wonderful pizza place in L.A. Pizzeria Bianco. Well-known NBA establishment.

Yes. The owner, Chris Bianco was there and he was talking about watching the, he's a big son's fan, he's a Phoenix guy. He's talking about watching the Sun's G-League team. Yes. He was evaluating the Suns. He loves draft picks. He was watching, you know, Malewatch.

and Fleming on the G-League team a few months ago. Anyway, we get the pizzas. I was going to see. And McMahon just starts eating my pizza. No, it was put in front of me, so I thought it was the one that I ordered. Did it look at anything like the pizza that you ordered? I didn't know. They said some special thing.

I just said, sure, give me the special. It looks special. I certainly believe McMahon having no idea what pizza he has been brought. That tracks. Yeah. Put it in front of me. I only ate like 33% of yours and all of mine. Anyway, it was a great dinner. All right. Actually, hey, cut that because I'm getting diet and conditioning criticism from the IT department lately.

Okay. Well, it was a personal pizza. It wasn't, you know. Anyway, where do you think the race is for rookie of the year, Pontemps? I mean, I don't know if you want to open that can of worms, but I kind of would be interested. I don't know where it's at. I don't either. That's kind of why I wonder if you could tack it on. Let's look at the...

According to Draft Kings, last I checked, let me get the fresh odds here. Jackson has it. I think Khan is in first place, but, you know, I mean, the Hornets had an incredible run, and Con had a lot of... Khan is minus 250 and Cooper is plus 190. Yeah.

Like, I think it's close enough to wear, we'll see what happens over the final couple weeks of the season. I mean, Cooper has a couple of huge games that could spin things back in the other direction. Like, look, if Con had 35 in one of these two games this weekend, or both, and the Hornets had got a win or two, that was a huge opportunity for him to push it back the other way. He did not. He did not play well in either game. Like, I think it's close enough that a couple of performances either way down the stretch

could be enough to win it. Because I would say that generally, in this situation, Cooper Flag would win rookie the year. He's seen as the better prospect. He's probably going to be a tremendous long-term player. Obviously, I think Con is going to be a great long-term player, too. But, like, if it's a tie or close to it, you tend to default to the guy who's the higher-level long-term player. I mean, it's not a perfect comparison, but this is sort of what happened with Victor Wimmynama and Chad Holmron a couple years ago. Like, Chad had a great year on a way, way better team than the Hornets, obviously, with the Thunder.

But Victor had a great season. He was seen as a generational player. He wound up winning the award running away down the stretch. Con has had a better year. He's got the all-time rookie record for threes. He's played great. Charlotte has had this unbelievable surge. Cooper's had injuries.

The Mavs have been tanking. Everything has broken. Yeah, the tanking aspect of it complicates it, even though you, would never, when you watch him play, he's, you know, he's going full force. It's just because to me, the math's just been so irrelevant. Like, there hasn't been any moments for Cooper to, like, capture any attention, really, even though, whether he's playing hard or not, whereas Charlotte has had all this attention. The last time he really was able to capture national attention was when these guys played

each other and Cooper had 49, Con had 34, the Hornets winning, you know, down at the end, but it was the most points ever scored by a teenager in an NBA game. Now, he had the foot sprain that kept him out longer than the MADS anticipated. I think it ended up being like eight games there. Also, just for Rookie, the year, you do not have the games played threshold. Yeah, no games play requirement for that. And he's going to play 65 anyways, but yeah, no games played. But, like, Khan, it's not, he's not just, like, been a volume three-point shooter.

I haven't checked today after a couple off shooting nights, but he's shooting well, like it was well over 43% going into the weekend. And he's, you know, he's been a good rebounder. He's been a much better playmaker than people thought. 43% from three on eight attempts a game. I mean, it's just an unbelievable, just an unbelievable, an unbelievably efficient season from a guy coming in the league.

And by the way, doing it on a team that has had this incredible turnaround has been a huge part of their success, you know, all that stuff. It all is broken in his direction. But it's close enough where, like I said, I think the ball is sort of on Cooper's racket. And if he has a great two weeks,

I think people, my guess is in a situation like this, people will be trying to find ways to vote for Cooper in the end. And if he gives them reasons, they'll vote for him. Well, and the other thing is Cooper, so guys as rookies who have averaged over 20 points, six rebounds and four assists, I'll just tell you since the ABA-MBA merger, which is damn near 50 years now. Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Luca Donchich, and Cooper Flagg. It's pretty good company.

Three guys who won rookie the year and ended up having decent careers for themselves, one still in process. But, yeah, so, I mean, it's a pretty good company. Now, there's not a bad choice. But Khan is, like, his three-point shooting is absolutely historic. He looks like he's going to lead the league and three's made, just blew the rookie three-point record down the water on good efficiency.

And he's like, you know, 19 over 5, over 3. Like his counting numbers aren't that far off. No, I mean, this is not like, say, when Malcolm Brock did one rookie year, when Joal played, I think, 32 games as a rookie. It's not normal to factor in winning in the rookie of the year race because typically the top rookies are on terrible teams. You mentioned Chet was an exception, but I'm sorry, Wimby is just a different level than Chet.

No, no, for sure. Yeah, whatever. That was the right folk. Yeah, Wimby's on a completely different level. So, you know, it's interesting to how much do you weigh winning an impact on winning? Frankly, I don't care what Cooper is doing. The Mavericks weren't winning a lot this year period. You know, I went back and, you know, because it does, you know, you guys know, I keep thinking about LeBron's rookie year when it comes.

to Cooper. The LeBron's rookie year, there was Carmelho and LeBron. And, you know, the case for Carmel. The case for Carmelo was that he was leaving the Nuggets of the playoffs. And the Cavs missed the playoffs only by a single game that year, even though they were like 12 or 13 games under 500. It was back in the, you know, there was a couple of years in there where the Eastern Conference had literally had teams 10 games under five.

they only missed the game by I only missed the playoffs by one but I couldn't remember how bad the losing streak was but I went back and looked they actually had a stretch right now right at this time of the season like late March orly April where they lost 11 of 12

and even though LeBron was putting up numbers you know the the nuggets were in the process of like finalizing their playoff position even though the Brown was putting up numbers like they lost 11 to 12 games and there were people going like

this give with to Carmela, this 19-year-old like he can't get it done. And so it just reminds me, you know, this, you know, the cows weren't taken. They were trying to make the playoffs. And Carmelo had a great year and was a primary guy on a team that broke through, made the playoffs.

Right. You know, Carmelo was a three-pick. You know, obviously Carmelo came with more fanfare. He was a national champion. But, you know, Khan was a fourth pick. There's a lot of parallels across the board and ultimately LeBron won. And, you know, I don't

know or that one. That one is going to be really interesting to see where it lands. So it wasn't the same. We had more voters back then, but the votes were 78 to 40. First place votes, LeBron. Yeah, two to one. Yeah. So. And listen, if there was a redraft, Cooper would go number one every single time. Like, that's not. The debate's not, who would you. That's true. And you know what, LeBron, I don't, would LeBron? I bet he had to. He would have had to, right? A hundred percent. I mean, LeBron would have. would go number one in any draft ever. There were some people who were pretty dogmatic in the national media back then who were like, nope, I'm voting for Carmelo. So. Brian would have gone number one.

Cooper would have gone number one. And by the way, to go back to an argument for earlier this year, Cooper would go number one in this draft too. Cooper would have gone number one in every single draft probably over the last decade with one exception. You ain't going number one over Wembe. That's right. You know what? Maybe Zion. Real talk?

Like that could be like the- I think you'd go ahead of Zion too. That could be the sort of the defining thing. If anybody's fighting over, you know, Khan and Cooper, you just say, Yeah, but here's the thing. That's not the, it's not the who's going to have the best career award. I understand. It's rookie of the year.

But you, my point is the performance in the rookie year. A tiebreaker could end up being who do you think is going to be the better long-term player. That's what the case was for LeBron versus Miller. It's as competitive a race as we've seen in a very long time for the award. It's also the only reason to bother watching the Maverick. for the rest of the season. That is true. Which I'm not doing that much.

I'm just to be clear. At least not in person. Yeah. You're up at Oklahoma City. I'm going to see him when Luca comes through Easter weekend. Do I want to give myself a headache? The return of Luca for Easter. Is that symbolic?

Well, speaking of Luca, finally happened, McMahon. Oh, gosh. Right before the lizards come to town, man, golly G. Shucks. Put your feet up, Luca. Your teammates can take care of this one without you. Get a few days off.

Fresh. No need to peel this one. The 16th technical foul. He now is one for four getting that suspension T rescinded. I'm sorry, three for four. One for four as far as the suspension actually sticking now. I actually thought this one was potentially softer than the last one, to be honest with you. But I guess there was contact made between two players.

So again, honestly, now you've got, you've got two more until your next suspension. You can probably get through the rest of the season without picking up two more. This is not the worst break in the world for the Lakers and Luca. I will say, number 17 is definitely coming. He'll probably avoid 18. Oh, 17 is like a freebie. Yes. Yeah, I mean, the fines he's getting their relatively high now, which each attack.

but um well this suspension cost him however many hundred thousand that he gets 250,000 give or take I think yeah so but let's I mean seriously though like this is if you're going to get a one game suspension an automatic one game suspension this is pretty good timing because you've got the lakers I'm sorry the lizards and it's the front end of the back to back so you'll be fresh for the calves on Tuesday. And then you've got a couple days later, the Thunder, a few days off, the Mavericks, and that's obviously not a big game, but for Luca, you know, he would like to score like 84 points or so against the Mavericks if you can. Then the Thunder again, Warrior's Sons, Jazz.

But anyways, so, you know, a couple games against the Thunder, the calves in there. It's like, there is a tough little stretch of schedule coming up. It's not a bad time for him to miss the first end of the back-to-back. Do we want to talk about this tanking stuff or should we just let McMahon go to bet? Adam Silver talked a lot about how the incentives are going to change in these new tanking rules. The incentives do not change at all in these new tanking rules

that have been proposed. They disincentivize losing some, but they don't incentivize winning. We would still have the end of the season be a morass of teams at best, not caring at all. And at worst, some of these proposals, you'd have these middle-tier teams trying to make sure they're in the top 10 to have a higher chance of moving up in the draft. And I just continue to be baffled by the fact that the league refuses to institute some sort of idea

to incentivize winning in the final third of the season, which again, if we're just talking about this purely from a business perspective, the vast majority of the NBA audience from a casual perspective tunes in the day after the Super Bowl. And so to me, as I wrote about the piece about this last month, if you could maximize the competitive portion of the schedule

from the day after the Super Bowl until the end of the NBA finals will say that every single game in that period of time, every team in the league is motivated to win. I think that would be great for us as a company that broadcasts the games. I think it would be great for the NBA to have that as a product. I think it would be great for the trade deadline

to have all these bad teams like they did this year have reason to get better. And it would be a much better product of what we're seeing right now where we're just trying to avoid all these games where nobody cares and none of these proposals changed that. Yet that is not one of the proposals,

which you just laid out. Wait, I'm baffled by Bontim's definition of really quick. How was a soliloquy? That was about a minute. Could have been worse. I also will say, regardless of whatever it is, these are very complex for teams to be able to vote on them in May. And honestly, in at least one of those proposals, I don't see why any team would ever try to make the play in. Right?

You're going to have teams like the matter. I don't want to go over them. Yeah, we don't need to get into details on it. All I'll say is, you have to be very careful about making one of the incentives. you benefit a lot by not being a playing team. You've got to be really careful that because you'll get that kind of tanking. I would agree. I think I definitely would be in play.

The other thing I would say is the NBA, I think, does a lot of times, ignores the fact that fans should be able to sit at a bar and have a beer and not have to have a calculus book to understand stuff like, where is my team going to draft? Like that this shouldn't be that complicated. Boy, that is exactly right. forget about sitting at a bar. Two guys with advanced degrees sitting at lunch on their breaket from MIT are going to have to work to get figured this out. Sure.

But beyond that, like, you should be able to sit and have a beer and watch a game and not have to go, not have to, like, figure out some crazy rubric of where my team is going to draft. What's our two-year co-o-fix? This proposal that didn't make the league. top three, but was sent to us by an executive last week. One rule, if a team owns their first round draft pick at any point during the season of the current league year, that pick moves to the last pick in the round or to a coin flip for last pick if there's multiple teams. In other words, you have to trade your pick. So that's the one thing, that's the one thing I've seen that would

eliminate any benefit to losing. Yes, I love this guy. He's a very bright guy. But again, Again, as I said to him and to you privately, the idea of having every single draft pick traded also is just, it's, we don't need to get to that point. That's too much. It's too much. It's a creative proposal. I appreciate it. We don't need to have a system where every single draft pick is trading the league. I need a proposal that's not creating.

I have a simple proposal. Enforce the anti-tanking rules. Also, and I am dead serious about this, losing teams should have to have league approval for their 10-day contracts. I'm dead serious about that. It's a new trend. I'm not going to say where it started, but intentionally signing mediocre G-League players to 10-day deals and playing them 40-plus minutes per game, the league should be able to V-EG. veto that. Not more complex. Yes. More simple. Yes. Well, yeah, simple. You can't sign Sucky G. League players and play in 45 minutes. You're making a point and that's fine, but that's, you know.

If they instituted the plan I wrote about two months ago or a month and a half ago, it would be very simple to understand and it would lead to a lot better competition when everybody tunes in to watch the sport. I have yet to hear a good argument against it. The one that's been said to me a bunch is we'd have more tanking the first two-thirds of the season. I call absolute BS on that. This season has been as bad as you could possibly be from that standpoint. And again, from a business perspective, it would be great for the league if we were just talking over the final two months of the season about everybody gearing up trying to win every game possible. Now it would be awesome. So I've just, I'm over all of this crap.

It just continues to frustrate me that we're going to end up in some. some world where the league continues to make these proposals more complicated, to Brian's point, without actually fixing the problem. I actually believe that it was such a thud these proposals that I actually think none of them are going. That's what I think. Here's my proposal. I think Bontemps should be the commissioner. I will say this.

Bon Tempts is not afraid to issue an opinion and to issue an edict. Yeah. I'm not sure that his reign would last for the, 30 years of David Stern. I don't. But Adam has a very, Adam has a very hard job. I think we all would agree.

Bon Temps, gray area does not exist to Bon Temps. Listen, all I'm going to, if you're going to say, we're going to change the incentives, change the incentives. Actually do it. None of these proposals do that. Bond Tim's for a commissioner

and bond temp for pro basketball writers association president. I'll be a campaign manager on both of those. That's a truly thankful job. Let me tell you something. Neither one of them are happening. Let me know how the vote goes from the membership. All right, that's enough on tanking. Thank you very much to our producers, Devon, Mark, and Jackson,

who spent this weekend looking at the cherry blossoms in D.C. I'll bet that was wonderful, Jackson. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you to Bontemps. Thank you to McMam. Thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective. We'll talk to you later this week. Adios Migos.

Thank you.