Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Trae Young Trade Reaction, End of a Dynasty For Warriors? & Sacramento Finds a Plan

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater to break down the Trae Young trade for both Washington and Atlanta with some details that are not getting enough attention. Then, the guys talk the state of the Warriors including if this could be Steve Kerr’s final season as they reach the tail end of a dynasty. Next, the guys discuss Sacramento officially having a plan moving forward before talking some ideas for the NBA Draft Lottery and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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or he didn't have to deal with me from Northern California is Anthony Slate. I'm good. I'm game one of an eight-game homestand for me covering the Warriors. So I don't got to leave California until like January 20th. Great time. Yeah, I saw that. It's like three straight weeks. And it was actually like, because they had the one road game a couple days ago in L.A.,

which went great. for everybody. Steve Kerr ended the game in a great mood. I didn't see him. I only saw Terry's thoughts. Yeah, Terry's like, Steve Kerr didn't show up

to the press conference because he was so mad about the goaltend. Actually, I saw the goal tend. Like, it was a, you know, it was a bad call, but it wasn't like egregious. But it occurred,

seen enough. It came right after a continuation that was called so late that Steph was like really agitated. And Steph even said postgame if Steve didn't do that, He might have got ejected, so that was the way Steph kind of defended it. I don't think Steph would have got ejected.

I don't either, but he's very defensive. Steve Ballmer said that it was the intimidating wall, the wall of fans and into a dome, unnerved the Warriors and they unraveled. But it was the only, I think they play, what, 10 out of 11 at home and the road game was in L.A. Yeah. I mean, basically late January or, you know, New Year's Eve they played in Charlotte and then they didn't leave California. don't leave California until January 20th. Yeah.

So an important stretch for the Warriors to make some hay. Joining us from Detroit is Vince Goodwell. What's up, Vince? What's going on, Wendy? No big stories about coaches getting thrown out of games or anything crazy like that. I did see the Knicks get punked a couple nights ago in Detroit by the Pistons. That was an eye-opener, to say the least. Yeah, the Pistons won in Cleveland last Sunday and then slammed the Nicks on Monday without two starters.

And I got to tell you, I said this earlier on the pod, so I don't want to repeat it, but I'm just telling you. The way the calves performed in that game on Sunday was as if any, if you want to believe that the calves are just going to be fine once they get healthy, I encourage you to go watch that game because that was the best they had been playing in a while and they had a advantage personnel-wise. And the pistons just took it, took it from them on their court. All right, we'll get into all that later on. But it was a trade. I don't know if you guys heard about it. I, after what happened last year, I don't want to assume anything about the trade deadline season. Maybe.

Bontem has been saying he thinks this could end up being the biggest trade that happens to the whole deadline season. As soon as Bontem said it, I knew that it wouldn't be. Having said that, like, I'm not sure that we're going to see many guys with $40 million contracts get moved. Maybe we will, but I don't know. So it's significant on that regard that Trey Young gets traded. And I want to say it seemed like it came together quickly because, you know, Shams reported a couple of days ago that, you know, Tray was open to a trade. The truth is that this has been a process has been going on for weeks, if not months. And as soon as the summer happened where trade did not get extended, it became clear that while it wasn't a certainty going to happen, it became clear that, while it wasn't a certainty going to happen, it became clear that,

Trey Young was probably not going to remain in Atlanta past this season. And his agents at CAA started looking for places for him to go. And the Hawks started looking for places where he could go. And naturally, if you're Trey Young and you're a year away from needing a contract, you're going to want to go to a place that wants to sign you. And naturally, if you're the Hawks, you're going to want a trade situation that satisfies you. And so I agree with what Shams said that Washington was his performance. preferred destination. But it was his preferred destination because it was pretty much the only place that

would offer the kind of the package that Atlanta wanted, which frankly was short money, even though Kisper's got a few years on his contract, it's mid-level-ish contract. And they didn't have to use any draft capital. And I know that some people reacted the other day when we were talking on here about maybe needing to attach draft capital to a trade. But, you know, because of Trey Young's contract, he's owed 50 million next year and because that we're in a league right now that punishes small guards, like there were teams out there. Obviously, the Wizards were not one of them, but there were teams out there that guys, like they saw Trey as somebody that you have to incentivize to take. I mean, it's not all 29 other teams, but there were teams that so, you know, you think I'm

out of line with what I'm saying, Vince? at all? Brian, when it was, yeah, no, you're not. When it was kind of getting closer, were you wondering if there were going to be any picks and if there were, which way they were going to be going to be going? So, yeah, so I mean, you know, not to be this type of guy, but what do you want me to say? Like, we knew that Trey was getting traded when Vince, like Saturday, Sunday, like, we knew the deal was going down.

Like, you know, if you were an insider in the league, you knew the deal was going down. The only question was, is there going to be draft capital in the deal? And is a draft capital, you know, going to be significant or not? And there wasn't, although I will tell you. And guys, I, people listen to the pod, no, I have a connection to Corey Kspurt. Number one, he's a good golfer. Number two, he set my son an autographed jersey a year or so ago because I used him to dominate my son when my son forced me to play with the Wizards on 2K because he wanted to beat.

And he plays with the Warriors Slater. And he won't, he doesn't want to up, he doesn't want us to get a new game or update the rosters because he likes having Clay and Stater. death because all he wants to do is shoot threes. He doesn't want Jimmy Butler on there shooting mid-range shots. He wants to play to shoot threes. Anyway, I like Corey Kisper, but I'm just going to say that the Wizards wanted to get off of that contract. And while I don't think, I mean, do you think it's a bad contract, Vince?

Like, I don't, I mean, he's, no. Probably an even level, right? Yeah. That said, the Wizards. He's making 13, 13 a year. That's, that's a mid-level, that's a trade exception type of contract in today's league. I'll tell you something, Brian. It's somewhat irrelevant to this moment.

But Corey Kisbert, almost a warrior. Warriors were interested in him during the Jonathan Kaminga Moses Moody draft. He would have been, he was an option at the moody pick and had fans in the organization, including high up top. All right. Well, I will just say to, in lieu of the Hawks sending a draft pick to Washington, they took on the Kispert money, which wasn't if he was a toxic contract, but Washington, getting off of that money, which would give them a little bit more cap flexibility because obviously they're using a bunch of cap space

by taking on Trey. That was sort of the, I don't like to, try not to offend people. It was a sweetener. The other thing I think is fascinating. I talked to a guy in the league today. And, you know, the stats are very out there,

you know, whether you want to say they're two and eight or one in nine because, you know, he didn't finish one game, whatever. But the Hawks have a winning record when Trey doesn't play. And when he does play, they have a 100 winning percentage or 200 winning percentage. It's a defensive rating thing, isn't it?

It's just craters. They're trying to build this, you know, rangey young, disruptive transition team that you can't really pick on anybody, which, you know, we might get to the Kings later. As a reason the Kings weren't that interested, weren't interested in Ray Young is because that's the type of team that Scott Perry wants to build. So that's the problem, this defense. Yeah. So the hawks, like, Trey had a knee injury.

He had a pretty significant sprained knee back in November. He missed six or seven weeks or whatever it was. And they brought him back, you know. I'm not saying he's 100%, but they cleared him to play. He wasn't playing him back to back, but they cleared him to play. Then he has a thigh contusion, which I think he was day-to-day for. But I think the Hawks clearly benefited by him not playing. The Hawks don't have their draft pick this year.

So the Hawks were incentivized. I'm trying not to offend anybody because I like Trey. He's been very good to me over the years. I'm not trying to be offensive. Do you want me to say it? Okay. Look, Wendy, he's viewed as a negative asset throughout the lead, despite his talent, despite the numbers. I talked to someone pretty close to the deal the night before.

I was under the impression that there was going to be some draft compensation attached to it. And after the deal went down, I just texted Sean. I was like, hey, just be on a lookout because sometimes there's always the main trade. And then there's like these little trickles that come out later. And I said, hey, just be on the lookout. There could be some draft compensation. He said there's none. And I was like, I was stunned.

Like this to me, Wendy, almost goes back to the Sean Mark's way that he rebuilt the Brooklyn that's the first time in the aftermath of the Garnett Pierce, the trade, the draft picks that wound up turning into Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and all those guys where he wound up trading for a player on a bad deal, but getting a draft pick, a low-level first round draft pick to go with it. It looked like you were trading for the player, but in essence you were trading for the pick. So when this came up, I swore, I swore that Washington was like, all right, we're going to take on the player the big name, but we're going to get some draft compensation. and the fact that they didn't, that says a lot about who wasn't willing to give up anything for trade.

You know, like preferred destination is one thing. Only destination might be more applicable. Okay. So you got, I appreciate that. So you got one team that basically wants to trade him sort of as soon as possible because when he plays, they don't win. Okay. The team that acquired him in Washington, guys, I don't think they're going to play them. And they're going to probably.

But they got to hold them to their draft. picked this year because it's top eight protective with the nicks that's right so they don't control their pick totally it's top eight protected they've won five out of seven games they've moved up like two or three spots in the standings or moved down whatever you want to say and they're not going to play them i don't think and you know this is going to be prickly because i'm sure they didn't like this getting out there i don't think they're going to play him but they're not going to play him because they think if he plays they're going to win too many games so i was like Okay, so let me get this straight.

I was talking to this guy today. I was like, let me get this straight. So one team doesn't want to play them because they think, because they don't have their pick, and they think if they play them that they're going to lose more. And then the exact same player, the other team, thinks that if he does play, that they're going to win too many games

because they have to worry about their pick. I go, what are we doing here? And the guy goes, welcome to life in our current lottery system. It also indicates the way two different organizations view Trey Young. And, you know, one team decided not to extend him last year, the Hawks. They could have extended him. They didn't.

And the other team is ready to, you know, give him the promise of more money before he plays a game for them. It's also about the rosters, right? We're talking about the replacement level players where the Hawks are saying, this is the five-man unit we want on the floor that doesn't include Trey Young and it's ready to win. and the Wizards, you know, who is going to be playing the minutes that Trey Young's not playing for Washington. I mean, we're talking 19, 20, 21-year-olds, inefficient, trying to learn the league. And that's the other part of it, sure, is if he doesn't play that much, it's about maybe losing, but also it's about development.

Although I would say, you mentioned it earlier, I want to get Trey Young in there, like get some better point guard play, get Alex Sarsum pick and roll, you know, opportunities. Like, I can't imagine. I don't necessarily think it's that healthy for, you know, them to just not see Trey Young, once before next season? Well, I don't know if that's, I don't know how many games going to. I'm just telling you, like, I think that's the plan right now. Now, maybe the plan changes, okay?

It certainly happens a lot in the NBA. And again, he does have a knee injury. Like, it's not, not true. But he was true to return. And he's 27 now? He's 27? Yeah, it's 27. 27.

27, it's January 8th. If you're healthy, motivated, I would assume, by what is gone down and what the league just said your value was. I mean, I got to think he's going to want to come in and light up Capital One a little bit. He's he's not totally good stats, bad team player. Like that's that's by and large the book on him. But he has played in his career winning basketball. It just has to be in a very specialized situation. Not saying that the Wizards are it. But I do think it would be advantageous for him and them to play just to see what you have. And secondarily, you said it earlier, Wendy.

C.J. McCullum has had some games this year where, hey, man, 50 ball, you got to get you up out of here. Like, legit. That's another part of it. CJ, you're playing too well. We got to, you have to go. So there's that. There is the element of Trey Young wanting to prove himself.

And here's the other part of this. And I was talking to another guy who's close to it. This is in some way an affirmation of Trey Young interrelations. relation to John Morant in relation to LaMello Ball. Because if you have all three of those guys and that's the guy that they picked, then as opposed to saying Trey Young is this negative

asset as a whole, you've got three all-star level ball players and we're saying this is the winningest ball player out of the three, which I actually agree with if I'm rating Lamello and Trey and Jai.

Yeah. You know, my favorite moment coming out of COVID was I remember when Trey Young had that series in the garden. I remember it felt like the first time fans were back in. I remember watching that series and it was like, whoa, people are like high-fiving court side in those next games. Yeah,

I mean, he's had some like pretty much like pretty much. You're talking about when he rolled the dice at seven point? Yeah, that was, I remember one celebration, but just generally, that was something else.

I think that might have been the next year. He had a game winner in the garden during the playoffs, like where he beat, uh, well, they upset the Knicks in the playoffs. Yeah, they upset the Knicks.

Yeah. coming out of COVID. So, yeah, he's had, you know, Joe Moran's had some playoff moments, too, but he's never got to a conference final. Last seven games is a wizard, C.J. McCollum, 5 and 2. Average 20 points shot 52% from the field, 39% on 3, 89% from the line, 4 rebounds, 4 assists. Yeah, he got to go.

5 and 2 is the most shocking part of that. Well, and they traded them, and they, they, They didn't play. They took him out of the lineup last night against Philly. Wasn't it for like the same injury as Tray Young? It was like quad or something. Yeah, I mean, what do I know? I'm not, I can't say what his quad is, but.

Can I briefly mention that, you know, there's some front office dynamics I play here to Travis Schlank, right? You know, the guy that drafted Tray Young in Atlanta is part of Washington's front office. And then Will Dawkins, you know, you mentioned earlier, you know, kind of Chris Paul, right, going to the Thunder, rehabbing his value, trading him. That's what the Thunder did. It's probably one of the more forgotten parts of their,

rebuild because everybody talks about obviously the Shay, you know, Paul George straight, but they rehabbed bigger contracts and then traded them out for picks later, which was not only Chris Paul, was Al Horford, remember he was on the Thunder, Kimball Walker?

That's right. They sent Al Horford home. They sent Al Horford home. They like glow about Al Horford's time there still. Well, wouldn't you? You want to get to say, I asked for him tackle this year about Al Horford

and he was like one of the greatest pros that's ever walked through these doors, basically? I'm not taking anything like, I think the Wizards probably should do that. This is what the Toronto Raptors just did last year. They traded for Brandon Ingram at the trade deadline. They gave them, they promised him a contract. I mean, I think in that case, he signed the contract and said, you know,

use a contract. And then they didn't play them the rest of the year because they were tanking for their pick. Now, it didn't work out. They won too many games. And then all these teams from behind them jumped them. They ended up with the ninth pick. And got a really good rookie, by the way. Yeah, but they didn't get, they didn't get, they didn't get Cooper Flag, which is I think what they, you know, you know, you get Cooper Flag or BJ Edge.

A team worse, or a team better than them in the standings got Cooper Flag. That's, well, that's a whole, again, this is the lottery system. I know. A team I saw win a play in game. I got Cooper Flag. Yes. This is the system that we live in. Are you ragging going to lottery system, Anthony Slater?

No, no, no. I'm just saying. Slater. Slater sounded like he was ragging going to lottery system. He hasn't. He hasn't dealt with lottery teams in his whole career. Like, he doesn't know what that is. I literally just wrote a story about the Sacramento Kings and spent like, you know, a week around them.

I've dealt with some lottery teams. I also covered a team that went 15 and 50, got the second overall pick and selected James Wiseman. Covered that team, too. That's true. You did. Okay. So look, I just, I don't think we're going to be able to evaluate this trade until the contracts come in. That's what I'm saying, because I don't really.

we're going to see Tray Young play that much. I will just say, in the case of Brandon Ingram, even though I think that injury, I mean, again, the Raptors could come out with affidavits and tell me that that's not true and they could say, look at the MRI or whatever. When they traded for Brandon Ingraham, he was already injured and was not playing.

Trey Young, I mean, I guess he's missed the last few games, but Trey Young was back from the knee injury. So I just think it'll be interesting to see how they handle that. But I don't, you know, guys, it is absolutely unacceptable for the Wizards not to get their pick this year. very badly need as high of a pick as possible. And so they absolutely should continue tanking as much as they can.

Like, that is the correct thing to do. I'm just interested to see how this plays out. And I'm really interested to see how much money they're going to give Trey when this contract will be negotiated allegedly. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. All right, Slater. You've had an interesting, we'll talk about the King's piece that you did in a minute. you've had an interesting couple of weeks on the Warriors beat. And I don't know, almost because we haven't talked to you for a few weeks,

I almost don't know where to start. We've kind of been saving Warrior stuff to you come back, but I almost don't know where to start. I'll let you start. Let's start with Draymond. Okay. To me, Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler's futures, in my opinion,

seem very secure with the Warriors. And while Draymond Green, you know, I would very heavily predict he remains here past the trade deadline to be, you know, considering the trades that could or couldn't be made and some of the building blocks needed. And his play recently compared to the other two, you know, mega stars on the team is a little bit more in question. And then obviously you mix in, you know, some of the ejections, the storming off the bench, the stuff with Steve Kerr, which I know you talked about with McMahon and Bon Temps. he has had a little bit of a roller coaster that I think has settled a bit, partly because typically with Draymond,

it's a little bit of like a boiling over an explosion and then a resettling. And I think that I know, I mean, they've said it. They said it last night. His focus level has been really good in the last week or so in his dealings with teammates and coaches and all that. that has gotten into a good place. I thought it was interesting last night. There was a lot of talk yesterday because Steve Kerr had gotten injected, right?

We talked about in the Clippers game and said that his mother was very upset with him. So Nick Fidel asked a question to Draymond about, you know, what's his mother been mad at him? And Draymond just whipped his phone out and starts reading recent text messages by his mom, who is a legendary figure back to the dynasty days, just killing him for getting ejected and his recent play and all that. And said one of the texts was, We need to have a heart to heart. And he's like, I'm still, I left that on red.

I haven't replied to that because he wanted to stack up a few games before, you know, having this heart to heart. And to the point of like he is trying right now to, it seems like, you know, get his season back on track. But also that that resecures his place within this warrior situation. As franchise wide, they decide front office ownership which direction they're going in the next month. We all know it's such a big month for everybody. across the league to assess their situations, but obviously the warriors are prime among that. I think it's been interesting in addition to the, the Draymond stuff that's been happening, you know, chapters 804 and 805 in the Draymond annals.

The Kerr has been like sort of, and I know that he's always, you know, pretty honest, as honest as you're going to see in a head coach. He's been like very, very blunt. He's been on edge. I was going to say, it seems like Wendy, more on edge than, you're going to be. usual, right? Yeah, I mean, it's his last, he's on the last year of his deal. He's publicly announced prior to the season that we'll see afterwards.

There's a freedom to the way he's operating. There's a finality in the way he's talking in a lot of ways. And I think this is him making sure he's painting the story how he believes it should be painted on his way out the door. And I'm not saying he's out the door for sure after this year. I think if they storm up to the, you know, whatever seed and have a decent playoff run, I think it's very possible he's back, but he's very clearly and transparently, as he continues to do, laid out the idea that maybe it's it. And if it is it, you don't have to wait for the documentary to hear his honest thoughts on how this is all going down because he is going to tell you into a microphone how it's going down.

Well, I just like, he was like, you know, we're a fading dynasty, which is, it's true. Like, you know, I'm a, you know, middle-aged guy in my 40s. Like, you know, I mean, it's like, it's true. It hurts to say. but, you know, I got gray hair coming in, you know. It's true. They are a fading dynasty. And then, like, I think it was the other day, I think you wrote about it.

I think you, or you tweeted about it, where, you know, Dremont was talking about how Steve met with him was like, hey, we can't play the way we played a couple years ago. Like, the league has changed. Like, you play this way. Like, we're going to lose. Yeah. That was last night when I was talking about this increased focus level. I think there's been a lot of, you know, attention. about Draymont's ejections or the storming off the bench.

Obviously, that's the stuff that interest fans. But really internally, they've just been saying, stop turning it over. Like, he's been turning it over like crazy. And they apparently had this meeting where Steve, as you said, he laid it out. It said, we're not as good as we used to. So these turnovers, you know, can't be as common. Number one, less margin for error. But two, what I thought was interesting, he said the league is different.

And these young up-tempo teams feast off those live ball turnovers. And it has killed them in a bunch of games. remember the game in Portland, Steph Curry, he scores 48. They lose the game because there was a ton of turnovers like Toronto the other day. You all watched that game where they just collapsed late. It was just a wave of turnovers.

So, yes, he, you know, but this is, Steve's going to go out the way he wants to go out. He's always been a great talker, and he's probably being even more transparent than ever. But also, like, Steve Kerr's number one, TV free agent if he wants to be. He could jump back into coaching if he wants, although he says, you know,

he's not leaving Steph, for another job. He could also go chill in San Diego, Brian. I mean, I remember we were there this summer. He has a decent little setup if he just wants to kind of, you know, fade away into the background, come back onto TV if he wants. Politics, I'm not saying he's going to, but if he wanted to, I know a lot of people in the state of California that would be interested in him getting mixed into that.

So there's a, to me, there's an empowerment and a freedom to him right now. And I think that's part of why he did not want to sign a contract. And do you think this is a good development for the Warriors in Hull? Depends on who you ask. I think the realism is good. And at times I think can settle people down to be like, hey, you know, yes, they have a now, now, let's try to win the fifth title in the Curry era. But I think part of what he's saying is like also needs to be a little bit of a celebration on this run out the door.

There needs to be a little bit of acknowledgement of the accomplishments, but also the acknowledgement of reality. And again, this is the conversation we've had. There also needs to, he doesn't want everybody to end like Clay did or going back to the last dance, which we've talked about on this podcast. It doesn't need to be sour and bad feelings and burnt out and all that. And I think, I think that is fueling some of this. And to your point, like, have some of his public comments about Jonathan Cominga, for example, been helpful in the comminga valuation and trade market and relationship with the franchise over the last two years. No, he gets himself in trouble with some of his honesty, but also his owner's emailing fans,

and that's coming out on Reddit. And Draymond's having his own, Draymond has podcasts where he's delivering takes on his own team, but he's also delivering takes on the NFL. This is the Warriors. They just spout content and deal with the aftermath. Yeah, by the way, that email, like, is what Joe Lacob said of that email? like egregious, like he was talking about, you know, what do you say about Kerr?

It was, uh, coaches, uh, desires regarding players was the line that everybody's like, you know, we know the player he's talking about. So it wasn't, but is Steve's, you mentioned it, are Steve's analysis recently on the team incorrect? No, no. Yeah. They talk. I enjoy it.

Let me say, as somebody who covers the team now for over a decade, like, I enjoy the honest. No, I listen, I think Dremont, I don't like his behavior on the court when he loses his temper, loses his cool. Like, I absolutely don't like that. But Dremont is such a value add to the league. You know, like,

the league is a better place because Dremont has been in it, you know? I just don't want him to choke people. I don't want him to punch teammates. But, you know, I mean, Steph Curry is one of the greatest gifts the league's ever had. Steve Curry's had one of the most amazing careers of any player or coach.

His playing career is among the most remarkable playing careers of any role player in the history of the league. People get offended when you say that Robert Rory was a role player, but he was. But like Robert Rory and Steve Kerr, like, find me role players that had more amazing. I mean, like, you know, Steve Kerr got to play with, got to play and win with Jordan, got to play and win with, you know, Duncan, you know. He's had a charmed existence. You know, got to. Also, Team USA, Gold Medal. Yeah, I mean, got to learn under Phil Jackson, got to learn under Greg Popovich, got to coach Steph Curry, right? You know, wins multiple gold medals. Also, his father was assassinated and he had a horrible misguided back surgery that caused debilitating pain for years and has changed his whole life. So, like, you know, his story is one of the most remarkable. I mean, like, he, you know, a movie on Steve Kerr's life, a documentary on Steve Kerr's life would be amazing and it's still going on. So yeah, you're telling me that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.

folks involved with the Warriors aren't like wonderfully additive to the league like I mean heck yeah. And I think the points you're making is kind of in some in a roundabout way the point that Steve's making which is like, you know, this is a famous, you know, legendary run. And I think he just wants bigger picture, you know, thoughts about them and reaction to them more than just the day-to-day, you know, angst because they're 19 and 18, then they're 20 and 18. and then they lost three in a row, you know, that type of stuff. There's a line, it's a fine line between resignation and still being competitive. And I think he's trying to tow the line of the resignation and the reality of what his team is,

while also still trying to be fair to Stephen Curry, Jimmy Butler, and Draymond, Draymond is on. The crazy thing, guys, is things never end well. There isn't a dynasty that has existed in the NBA where it ended cleanly, where everybody had great feelings toward each other, and it ended, and it was book-ended in such a storybook way. It always ends ugly. Like, it's just period.

And this one just feels like a lone kiss goodbye. This, to me, from the comfortable distance, to me, this feels like Steve Kerr's last year in Golden State. Because I can't see him doing all of this again next year. This is exhausting if you are Steve Kerr. If they make a playoff run, I think he comes. back. But I mean, it's fair, it's very fair to think that that's possible. Number one. Number two, the why it feels so elongated and long and drawn out at this point is because the number one star,

the sun in their solar system, as they like to call him, Steph Curry, is aging unbelievably to a point that he can sit there and go, yeah, you all are kind of still wasting an all NBA first or second team guard season by Steph Curry, where everybody else is like aging in a more normal career way. Like it does feel like they're wasting still championship level Steph Curry because he just is still a championship level stuff Curry. You know, I thought it was interesting, kind of cool just on the whole stuff timeline. Was it like two weeks ago or whatever it was 10 days ago where he went to Davidson? When they were in Charlotte, he went to a Davidson game and they named the exit off. I don't know if it's 77 or 85.

I'm not sure which one. Exit 30. I know that. That's what I'm saying. Like Davidson is off exit 30. Like they call it the Steph Curry exit, but they should just leave, they should just put the Warriors number 30 jersey on there. How amazing, how, that it was just so cool that it's exit 30. Like, and it wasn't like it used to be exit 207 and they renamed it.

It was just always exit 30. Yeah. Anyway, Slater, you also wrote this week a story about the Sacramento Kings and their situation, which is not great. I think they're about 8 and 25 or something like that. 8 and 29. Oh, no. Facing the Warriors on Friday night, actually, in San Francisco. And, by the way, next week, Knicks at King's Mike Brownback in Sacramento.

That'll be an interesting game. What do you think? The reception will be positive, don't you think? Yeah, for sure. He represents the failed era that I wrote about this year. And that's, you know, I think there's this outside perception right now as people look at their salary books and their record and some of the misfit veterans on their roster and go, like, there's no plan here. Why isn't there a plan here when the reality is like there's an obvious plan here? It's a deep rebuild that Scott Perry's just taken over.

But the story of why the situation is like it is is because of how the last couple of years went. And again, Mike represents that because of the sloppy firing of last year was one of the many moves. As you go from the beam team, the 48 win three seed to the 46 win team that was the nine seed that suddenly, because there was a few moves that Monty McNair, who was executive of the year, made that didn't work out. Vavec Rana DiVe kind of yanks the steering wheel back a bit and panics into some moves which include

De Rosen which include the firing of Mike Brown you know what five six months after giving him a big extension which you know and done in a way that alienates Deerrin Fox and then you know they rush into a Deeran Fox trade and go get Zach Levine mainly because that was a Vavec

you know he adored the way Levine played and then the front office is fired and then they have to reset the franchise this summer and they hand the keys over to Scott Perry in a way and Vivek because of the way it went, you know, from all I've heard is allowed Scott Perry, the autonomy early on for the rebuild is delivering, you know, a patient runway here for Scott. But, you know, if people want to know what the plan is the most important asset in the whole organization is the first round pick this year. I mean, right now they're a bottom three team in the

league. They would have a 52% chance at a top four pick. It's a really nice top of the draft. I've heard they like some of the guys up. there. I mean, I think every team does. Keegan Murray, who he gave an extension to, those are the two most important things in the organization right now. The veterans are just contracts either to be eaten or to be spit

out for expirings if they can get a picture. He's not going to attach a first to a contract unless that also comes back with like a young guy. Again, they're in on comminga to what degree we'll find out in the next month. They've liked them since the summer. Scott Perry went out to Miami when he

was a restrictive free agent, built up relationship with him. I think it's important to note Jonathan Cominga, 6'7, wing, Rangy, Kiga Murray, 6 foot 9, shooter wing, some of the guys in the top of the draft, big wings, they want to play

fast-paced, they want to become a defensive team. We will see long-term if it's built in a correct way, but what I'm saying right now and when you're around the franchise right now, there is a lot more of a calmness about the situation and a willingness to

let this thing breathe for a while, Whereas the last two years, all I felt was panic, panic, panic. We got to make moves to win now because that's what they got a little taste to the playoffs. And they went too strong after it. And now they have to throttle back. And they're in the throttle back mode. So do they admit that they're in a rebuild? Scott Perry says, I'm not a big labler.

I mean, I asked him this in the story that's there. He said he's not a label. So they won't say the term rebuild, but he says, you know, he knows it's a, it's a heavy lift is the term he used. He says him and Vivek are willing to take some short-term pain for long-term gain. We've got to get younger. It was a quote within it. So without saying the term rebuild, yeah, I mean, and anyone who talks to you about rival executives about their trade deadline plans or long-term plans,

like they're operating as a team that understands where they are and understands it's going to take pain to get where they need to go. Again, Monty McNair had a runway, but it stopped after. a little while. So I think it's very fair to speculate, wonder how patient they'll ultimately be as an ownership group. But at least as of this moment, yeah, they seem ready for a rebuild because what's really the other choice right now? Well, I agree with that. But, you know, I would have said that a year ago and they traded for Zach Levine. That was when they were still chasing. They were a playing team last year. They hosted a playing team. I told you, I saw the Cooper flag about to get Mavericks lose to them. But they've realized now they're not chasing the playing right now. Right. The problem is that, I mean, it's bad luck that Sabonis has been injured for most of the year. That's bad luck.

But, you know, they owe Zach Levine $50 million next year. He's got a player option, which I assume he'll be picking up. They owe Malik Monk $20 million next year. They've been trying to trade him for a long time. He has a player option, too. He's still three years out, and that's been tougher for them. Demarda Rosen has one more year, but there's only 10 million guaranteed next year. Yeah, they're difficult contracts, but honestly, like, this is not a team that is intent really, you know, again, they won't say it this bluntly, but they're not really intent on competing for a playoff spot the next, this season, next season.

So if they have to eat those contracts, they can just eat them. Yeah, I just, you know, like they signed 37-year-old Russell Westbrook. They signed like 33-year-old Dennis Schrooter. I can tell you why they did that because they want to change the outside. attitude of the franchise. They want it to be tougher. You know, say what you want. And the lead of my story is Scott Perry taking Doug Christie and BJ Armstrong to Pittsburgh Steelers camp for four days, sleeping in the dorms in Pennsylvania because he wants to build this grit, toughness, like, you know, brand. He's friends with Mike Tomlin. And that's why they brought in Russell Westbrook. They didn't bring in Russell Westbrook because

it's like, hey, help us get the eight seed this year. It's, hey, come in and like, yell at some people if you have to. Doug Christie talks about him being angry after losses and liking that. type of stuff. People can roll their eyes all they want, but that's why they made those moves. Yeah, I'm just, that's why I ask if they know they're in a rebuild, because I understand the idea that you want to change the, you know, the momentum or the mojo or the mood, but, you know, you bringing in guys in their 30s, you know, that's, you know, that's why I asked that question. No, I think there's something to having vets around who, like, there's always, I'm sure you've been like this, Wendy. I've had instances where I've covered bad teams and a bet will

come to me and tell me, this is not the real NBA. The real NBA is something totally different. And I think they kind of need to see like Russell Westbrook, if nothing else, he's a worker, right? If nothing else, he's going to do things beyond the 48 minutes of a game that can show you how to be professional despite the fact the 48 minutes, he might frustrate you to death. And I think in general, like, just zooming out a little bit, this is a story to some degree on how to handle ownership. You have to be able to have the panache to tell an owner who might have a very big appetite. No, like we're not there to make whatever moves that we need to make. And I think even starting back to what you were saying before about the trade deadline, a lot of teams are trying to tell the owners, hey, we're not there yet to go into second apron territory because we want to win a championship.

Like I think you're seeing a lot more prudence and then watch the trade deadline be the craziest wackiest deadline we've ever seen. But I think to some degree, especially when I look at like a team like the Knicks and James Dolan saying the things that he said, like a lot of these owners have to be calmed down. And I think some of the mechanisms of the system are forcing them to be calmed down because you're like, hey, we can't afford to go into this because this is really punitive for us. And it's forcing these very hard and realistic conversation as opposed to. well, Vivek said, let's do this, so we're going to do it. Like, sometimes you've got to tell the guy no. Yeah, and Scott has a good relationship with Vivek. And the other thing I would say, and, you know, he's hired him twice.

Yeah, yes, he has. But the, you mentioned a calmed version of owners just because of the apron system or whatever, the reality of the new NBA. I would also say, Vivek's probably a humbled version. This is not anything the Kings would, you know, want to present out there. but like he just yanked the steering wheel and it went right off the road. You know, he green lit a lot of moves that pretty quickly turned out to be disastrous in a lot of ways. So you could take two steps back and go, well, that didn't work.

You know, maybe it is time to, you know, let somebody else have a little, you know, a fuller level of autonomy. Yeah, but that's up to him. For sure. Again, I think it's very fair to wonder two losing seasons from now, two and a half. Once the thing about Scott Perry At some point he's going to have to put his name on some big moves Right? The biggest thing he's done so far is extend Keegan Murray.

We'll see how that ages. Sure, he signed Schrooter, but that's three for 45, not a big deal. The biggest move is going to be the draft pick. The biggest story next season for the Sacramento Kings is going to be how, let's say they get a top four pick. How does AJ DeBonsa look? How does Darren Peterson look? How does Caleb Wilson look, whoever?

That'll be the story. And if that looks like a great pick, there'll be some moments. momentum behind that. And, you know, if he does make a comminga trade or another, you know, big ticket item trade, how do those moves work? The biggest question will be, where's the patience if one of the bigger moves doesn't work? If it doesn't seem like it's going in that good of a direction. But we're not there. Right now, they're just like reeling from the flame thrower of the last two years from an era, their best era in two decades, by the way, or best season, I should say. It felt like their best momentum. They're restabilizing from that. And I actually sent some calmness. you know, as much as people might doubt that. I mean, they still light the beam, right? It's just not. Yeah, it's been lit eight times this year.

Not even because they only, they do it on. I made a joke to say, I was sitting next to Sam A. McDur and home play Kings games when I'm there. And they beat the Mavericks in their last, it wasn't their last Mavericks game, but their last home win was over Dallas. And they had like three of their rookies light the beam together. I was like, yeah, they're now doing groups of players lighting the beam because they don't know how many. Well, they only liked the beam when they went at home. Do they light it when they went on the road?

So it actually gets lit in like their postgame show, like shows it getting lit. But there's not like the whole ceremony of course. Right, right. Well, still, the beam goes up. Okay. So I was going to say the B has been lit eight times. Yes. Technically, they don't have the worst record in the West because even though they have the same number of wins as the Pelicans, they have two fewer losses.

There you go. And they have their own draft pick. Well, that's where they would be ahead of the Pelicans. Again, the most untouchable asset at the deadline for the Kings is the 2026. draft pick. That's the most important thing in the franchise right now. And I will say this. Unlike the Pelicans, unlike the Jazz, unlike the Wizards, you know, there's no circumstances around. You know, I will say, speaking of teams at the bottom with their draft picks,

and obviously this, you know, there's a whole incentive, show you me the incentive, I'll show the results type thing. If you look at the teams, you know, know, because a big story in the back half of this season is going to be tanking. And I'm almost loath to talk about it much then and even bring it up now. But it's relevant because of the trade. Trade just kept in. But like if you look at the situations that involve these teams that are going for these top picks. So Kings are just pure their draft pick.

They've owned their draft pick the whole time. 2026, they've owned it. Obviously, the Pelicans have traded them. the rights to their pick. The Jazz pick is top eight protected, which is, you know, a factor. Only one win better than the Jazz in the West of the Clippers who've traded their pick. You look at the East, the Wizards pick is top eight protected, which I don't think that they're going to finish outside the top eight, but if they mess around and finish sixth, last year, two teams outside the top eight moved into the top four. And, you know, that was a problem.

You know, had Philly not gotten lucky and gotten a top four pick, They might have been knocked out of the top eight, or top six was there, the top sixers. That was big. And that seventh pick would have gone to the Oklahoma City Thunder. Right. Can't imagine. More hoop collective podcast after this. So anyway, the wizards have their pick tied up.

The Jazz have their pick tied up. The Pelicans pick is gone. The Pacers and the Nets who, you know, the Pacers have the worst record in the league. They've got six wins. The Nets who actually were playing better. They have the third worst record in the east. They've got 11 wins. Both of them traded their first round picks this year and then reacquired them,

reacquired their own picks. And so like, like you want to see, you know, you want to know why there's like stuff that's crazy is like there's been so much draft pick trades in the last decade that you get into this kind of stuff where teams have to do weird things. And that's one of the reasons why they're looking at a lot of. reform. I don't know, Vince, if there's a, there's a solution. I got a solution for lottery reform. And I suggested this to our good buddy, Tim Frank, maybe like 10 years ago. Maybe not 10 years, like eight years ago. Tim Frank, was he a vice president of the NBA? Yeah, yeah. One of our favorite,

one of our favorite people. He's been there forever. He's an old man now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he used to call me when, when David Stern was pissed at me. Like, that's how far back it goes. Steers fan, right? Well, he's Notre Dame guy. Notre Dame, big Notre Dame guy. Tim, this is what I told Timmy this years ago. Set the lottery odds at midseason. At the 40-41 game mark, you set the lottery odds. So that way, even if there's going to be quote unquote tanking to the bottom, like there's going to be less variance there in those final 10 games because in theory you're still trying to figure out what players you have and evaluating it. And it's going to be harder to sort of just trade to race to bottom. And that way you can legitimately play out the last 40, 42 games of the season without

having to manipulate something. Like, well, what happens if, you know, a team makes a run after the lottery odds will replace that team with the next team and you keep the order as such? And that way, the integrity of it to my, you know, I'm sure it's going to be unintended consequences and everything else. I can tell you the unintended consequences. Those are like two weeks before, like, the 41 game date would probably get weird. Like, those would be the two weeks. Like instead of guys sitting out the last half of the season, they'll sit out the first half. Well, according to people who watch the NBA or don't watch the NBA, nobody cares about the NBA until the Super Bowl lands anyway. So who cares?

Like, that's what you hear from the, the quote unquote, casuals who complain and bitch about all this stuff all the time. I'd also be curious how that would impact the deadline where you would have teams that could say, hey, you know, we'll trade you our pick this year. It's, we may be rising up the standings, but we already got the fourth best lottery odds. and we can throw that into a deal or something. Yeah, I don't know what the, I'm not going to say here and say I know what the answer is, but the decision to not play Brandon Ingram last year was probably a good decision by the Raptors.

And whatever the Wizards do with Trey Young this year, prioritizing losing is a good decision for the Wizards. And the problem you get into here is when good decisions are to not play your star players. When those are really good decisions, that's when you have a, a challenge. And, you know, the whole point of the lottery is to de-incentivize tanking. The whole genesis of the concept in itself is to de-incentivize it. Are you suggesting getting rid of the

draft? No, I'm not one of those radical people that wants to legalize everything, you know, like, because look what's happening in college in college. Like, Vince, I'm going to tell you, like, the transfer portal, it's not that it turns me off. I'm happy that the players are getting paid. Like, I want them to get paid. Trust me. But it makes it impossible to be, to follow as a fan. There's no connective tissue.

It's hard. I mean, like. It's very hard. I'm going to tune in to Ole Miss Miami tonight. Brian, I know you might not. That might hurt a little bit. I had tickets lined up for the game, man. Yeah. So it ain't hurt. I mean, there's, there's something to be able to stick it out. Like, I have no problem with these dudes making money. They're employees and everything else. And you only hear the term student athlete. You ain't heard that in the past four or five years. You got that right. There is something to being able to sort of like sometimes you make a choice and stick it out or you know what I mean? Like being able to work through a situation.

Now if your coach leaves, maybe you can go there and not have any sort of like penalty or whatever like that sort of thing. You're connected more to the coach than the school. But it does feel a bit unseemly. Vinnie, I just think Brian is a little stung because I believe I saw Jeremiah Smith is entering the transfer portal. Did I see that correct? That would be news to me. Maybe. You know what?

They, I mean, they had a bunch of wide receivers enter it. But if that happened, that would be news to me. Okay. I wouldn't be sad if that happened. But that's the thing. Like, you know, if he wants to, you know, anybody wants to go to transfer portal, that's fine. It's just, it's very tough to follow the sport when you have no idea who your team is year to year. I mean, that granted, you're going to have some guys are always going to go, like in your coaches leave.

I don't really want to get in that conversation. But I'm just going to watch Oklahoma State football next year because I went to Oklahoma State. And I don't know, like even in past years, I'm not sure I had a deep connection to like, you know, players necessarily. It's just I'm like who they got this year. Oh, wow, this running back is cool. And I'm going to find that out in week one. Although I will say this is just for Tim McMahon. We basically are just North Texas next season.

So I'll take that. We just took the coach and all their players. But that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, the concept of I'll just find out what my team has when, the first game comes up, like, that's no way to be a fan. It doesn't feel good. It just,

we just have to recal. Well, I think, I don't mind it. At some point, this thing is going to burst. Like, something's going to happen and the system isn't going to,

like, it's not built to be sustainable one way or the other. You know what I mean? One year renewable deal, you know, scholarships and everything. That wasn't always fair to the players. You know,

having those guys having to sit a year if they wanted to transfer, that wasn't fair. And that while getting the, you know, $100 handshakes from the car dealership gas, whatever it was. Like, it's anarchy now, and there has to be some level of regulation. The problem is, who do you trust to regulate this?

Because I don't trust any of these people. Yeah, there's a whole problem. I thought that the, that I don't remember the gentleman's name, who is the billionaire who is funding Texas Tech. But I thought he said the quiet part out loud when he gave that interview, I think it was the 60 minutes, where he was just like, yeah, we saw an opportunity where we could just buy a bunch of great players. like Texas Tech hasn't been super elite in football. We've had some good years. We've had, you know, some good years. We're like, this is a Wild West and we got the money. Let's do it.

Well, they went and just bought the Cincinnati quarterback. Well, it's, you know, but like Jackson's saying that the, that everybody needs contracts. Well, contracts don't mean anything. And coaches have contracts. I think Lane Kiffin wasn't under contract with Old Miss. Like now there's a quarterback. That's the smarmiest dude, but I can't get over this whole whitewashing of Lane Kippin. I refuse.

You talk about the Indian. That is college football. Sorry. I brought up his name. Anarchy is like the brand of college football. Well, and to get back to where you started here, I don't want that. I want the draft. I want, um, you want order.

Yeah. And I want, you know, teams that are at the bottom to have a chance to get better. You know, like the NBA for better or worst is socialistic. The weak teams get the, get the, uh, the best picks, you know, unless they trade them away. And the teams that, you know, I saw some numbers. I think Sportico reported. There's all of this drama with the RSNs, with the local TV deals. And like, you know, the company that owns like 13 of them are like,

it's on the verge of bankruptcy a second time. And so they had all the, and a lot of these teams had to take pay cuts just to keep their RSN solvent. And so I saw, and I'm assuming Sportico's numbers are right, Sportico is one of the leaders in the field. Guys, Sportico reported that Memphis Grizzlies get $11.7 million a year from their local TV deal. The Lakers get approaching 200 million. So how would the Memphis Grizzlies ever compete in the same and by the way, they just beat the Lakers, or maybe the Lakers beat them. No, the Lakers beat them twice in a row.

Yeah, it was, they beat the Spursleys. Grizzlies have had better seasons than the Lakers at times recently. I'm just saying like, it's literally $20 to $1. Okay. The only way the Memphis Grizzlies can exist in the league is, if there's sharing. Like it's a socialistic system. I want the Grizzlies to exist. I don't want there to be five teams. I don't want there to be two teams in New York, two teams in L.A.,

a team in Chicago, and everybody just, I don't want that. I want there to be teams in all these places. Chicago doesn't know that it's a big city before you go anywhere. Well, their owners don't spend like it's a big city. No, I think the NBA is such a weird position because if you're a great team,

you can't elevate to really become dynastic, you know, to become sort of unbeatsy. beatable. But if you're bad, you can't get bad enough to guarantee that the next thing that you're going to have is the Patrick Ewing in the frozen envelope board of LeBron James in 2003. Like, it's so, it's, they're trying to become a league of seven and nine, nine and seven, so to speak, NFL style. And I don't know if fans actually relate to that. You talk about the Memphis Grizzlies. I'll just say, that's bad real estate, right? I think that's generally. what it is and you can't really help that because there's only so many NBA markets as we're going

to bring in at least at least I think one more NBA market over the next couple of years. I just think there's unintended consequences and they're trying to like serve all masters, so to speak, and you can't do that. And they haven't yet decided that they need to pick a line. Yeah, well, you want to talk about a brawl. You should see the brawl that's going to happen if there's expansion and two teams come into the West because I don't think there's going to be an expansion in the east. And one team has to move from the east, from the west of the east. And those teams on the Mississippi, you know, it's probably going to be like a Minnesota, New Orleans. Minnesota, New Orleans, Memphis. I think Minnesota goes east. And I think, I don't

think they bring in one. I think they bring in one team. I think we are, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's going to happen. But I'm just going to say, if there's a team that's going to move beast is going to be a brawl. That's what I'm telling you. Like, like, I promise you, whatever case that you can make for Minnesota, I promise you, the front offices in Memphis and New Orleans will have a equally strong case that they will present to the board of governors. But, all right, we've gone far afield here.

Thank you very much to have Vincent and Slater back on the pod. Thank you to Jackson and Devon and Tucker, a special. appearance by Tucker supporting us today, who I've known for a decade here at Omaha. And thank you so much for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective this week. We'll talk to you next week.