Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Warriors Legit Contenders, Mavs Disaster To Include Forfeits??

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to talk the Warriors’ substantial improvement after the Jimmy Butler trade, if they are legit contenders, the Rockets’ improvement of late including if their young talent has superstar potential, the potential for the Mavs to have to forfeit games and Tony Allen’s jersey retirement in Memphis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello, welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Sunday evening, joining us from the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York. It's Tim Bunn-Tubbs.

Hello, everybody. You know, when you're in the press conference room there, there are two of my favorite moments from that press conference room, Bun Tams. One, you were there for. One was when Mikhail Prokeroff fired Avery Johnson. Avery Johnson had been named Coach of the Month in November or December, and then like a month later he fired him. Yeah. In the first month of the season, he won coach of the month, the second month of the season, he got fired. Right.

Okay. So, I don't know, it was like a Tuesday. And somebody asked a question about, you know, ProCraft's holding this press conference. Standing against the wall over here because he's six nine. He's standing against the wall. He was wearing a sweater that I ballparked the retail value of to be about 4,000. thousand dollars. So he was asked, when did you make this decision? He goes, oh, I made the decision last Friday. And he kind of said a few things. And then somebody has to follow up. Wait a minute.

If you made the decision last Friday, why did you not fire him until like yesterday, you know, four days later? He had a very good reason for that. He goes, oh, I was hellas skiing in British Columbia and the drifts were up to here. He held up to his shoulder. And he's six eight. I'll remind everybody. Yeah, which I loved. I also loved PJ Colissimo became the interim head coach. And he said he was having a meeting with Brokeroff the next day to talk about the job. And we said, PJ, what are you hoping to get out of the meeting? He goes, lunch. The other thing was when we were in there for Media Day one year. And I'm coming and I sit down. It was the year that it was the year right after the first normal year after COVID. And we found out like five minutes before that Kyrie wasn't going to be there because he had. hadn't gotten vaccinated. And so I'm working with Wojj on the story. We're trying to get the story out or whatever. And I sit down and I look to the left of me. And like they were spaced out. The chairs were spaced out, you know, social distancing. So it was, you know, like four feet to my left. And I looked to my left and I looked again. I was like, God damn, that looks like David Letterman. But it can't be

David Letterman in the Brooklyn Nets preseason media or the, you know, the media day. But it was David Letterman, which is another story. All right. Joining us from Dallas, Texas, where soon he's off to the West Coast to see the Golden State Warriors, the Red Hot Golden State Warriors is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners? Yeah, I've got a little West Coast swing coming up, and I was a DNC rest today. Did not cover due to rest, the Mazz versus Sixers. I mean, this is an absolutely flagrant abuse of power that you are going to just take the day off and then fly to the West Coast instead of being in the locker room writing about Mav Sixers, which ABC also dropped. Yeah, once ABC dropped it, once I took a little look at first my travel itinerary,

then the injury list. I'm like, yeah, we don't need me there today. So skip that. I saw someone from the Mavericks, and maybe this was multiple people of the Mavericks media, there was only 18 active players between these two teams today or something like that. I'm surprised there were more than 16. I was going to say, were there 18? The Mavericks had eight, which is, as you know, the league minimum. And not the first time they've been just, you know, the skin of their teeth able to build a roster, although the Sixers did actually play 10 guys. They only played eight on Friday against Indiana at another game that was at. I think there were 18 active.

I mean, there were. I mean, they were definitely 18 active. They're definitely 18 active. There were only 18 players between the two teams that were able to play. And they all played. All right. Well, you're going out to see the Warriors, McMahon. The Warriors on Saturday night, it was a bit of an ugly game, but they beat the Knicks

by three. The Knicks keeping their head above water without Jalen Bronsner, two and two on this West Coast trip. But that made it, well, actually, you know what, let's go farther back. On February 6th, which I believe was the trade deadline, they might have made the... That is correct. Was the Jimmy Butler trade go down that day or the day before? Whatever it was.

Day before, I believe. All right. They were 25 and 26 when they made the Jimmy Butler trade. They are now 39 and 28. So that's 13 and 2 since that time. And I think they're... That is correct. I think they're 12 and 1 with Butler actually in the last.

lineup. And it's not like he's putting up enormous numbers. But this is one of the stories of the season, this Jimmy Butler trade. First off, the Miami Heat have taken an, I mean, Jimmy wasn't playing beforehand, but the trade did not help them. The heat of nose dive,

they've lost seven games in a row. Can I interrupt you to give you one truly unbelievable stat about the Miami Heat? At least he asked to interrupt McMann. Yes, you may. You'd like to interrupt me without asking all the time. You went to something like Broadway show today. as manners. Yes, that's why he's dressed so nicely. Well, I'm dressed this way because I'm working, but the Miami Heat in the fourth quarter, well, first of all, after losing very badly to the Memphis

Grizzlies, we'll talk about later Saturday night. The heat are four and 14 since the trade deadline. The main reason for that is the Miami Heat have not played well at all in the fourth quarter over the past five weeks. You guys want to take a guess at the net rating of the Miami Heat over 100 possessions over the past five weeks is in the fourth quarter. So just in case our listeners don't know, just to refresh, net rating is per 100 possessions, the difference in the score.

How much you're being outscored by? Yep. Yeah. I'm going to say that minus fourth quarter. Minus 16. I'm going to go big. Minus 16. Okay.

What you got, Brian? Well, they only scored 91 points against the Grizzlies on Saturday. So my guess is it didn't help. No, the fourth quarter didn't matter, though. Well, the fourth quarter, they were blown out in that game. Most of the games has been, competitive and then they've been slaughtered in the fourth quarter. What do you think their net rating

in the fourth quarter has been since the trade deadline? When you, you sort of moved past that McMahon's 16 like you were unfazed. So I might take the over, but only because I'm just trying to guess because I don't know. Okay. So it is over. Ironically, the Celtics are negative 16. It's definitely over in Miami, but go on. The Celtics have the 28th worst net rating in the fourth quarter since the trade deadline. They're 13 and 3. They've been outscored by 16 points per 100 possessions in the fourth quarter. But some of that's garbage time. Sure. Go on.

The Miami Heat have been outscored by 28.9 points for 100 possessions in the fourth quarter. They have an offensive rating of 92.9, which is like beyond horrific, and a defensive rating of 121.8. Okay. So we can say this point the Warriors appear to be winning the Jimmy Butler trade. I'm going to be honest with you. You might, if you had four competent NBA players and you played four. four on five, you might be able to do better than negative 20.

minus 28.9 is pretty impressive. And the crazy thing is for the heat, not to turn this into a long heat discussion, but their numbers like in the other three quarters are fine. They just, they have gotten repeatedly obliterated in the fourth quarter against, which is why they have had an awful month. That was a brief. Don't say worries of not an awful month. That was a brief interruption, Wendy.

Sorry. I just, I was looking that up yesterday. I thought it was a flabbergasting. Yeah, I thought it was worth the mention. Oh, my God. And then the Warriors just, I covered their lone loss with Jimmy Butler in the lineup. It was against the Mavs, you know, when Kyrie was healthy. And but, you know, like you said, it's not like Jimmy's come in and is, you know, going for 28, 8 and 8.

He's putting up good numbers, but it's like 16, 6 and 6. But like he just, he has just fit and everything blows and hums. He gives them a major dose of toughness, another IQ guy. And he's fit great there. I wondered if the shooting, the lack of shooting with him and Draymond specifically playing together would be a problem. It certainly has not been. And I think if you're talking about kind of intangible value of Jimmy Butler, the spark of enthusiasm in life that this gave Steph Curry has been huge. And this is, you remember, Steph was the one who's like, hey, basically, if, if, if, you know,

If there's not a move there that makes sense, fine, but it's almost like, if we don't have a chance to contend this year, okay, I agree with not mortgaging our future for something that doesn't make sense. They didn't have to mortgage their future. They got a move that makes sense. And Steph is playing as well as he ever as. Well, on some numbers on Gold State really quick. Warriors since the trade, as Brian mentioned, they're now 14 and 2.

Offensive rating 120.5, which is fifth in the league over the past several weeks. defensive rating of 108.2, which is second only to Detroit over the past several weeks, a net rating of 12.4, which is second only to Cavs Corner over the past several weeks, including Cavs Corners Untimely defeat this afternoon to the magic. Untimely. And it's untimely that they didn't keep their winning streak going into the pot. It's funny. And the Warriors have, I was going to check and see what the difference is before of the trade.

But since the trade, they have an assist rate or assist percentage of 74.5, which is by far, the highest in the league, way ahead of Indiana, which not surprising with the way Tyrese Howberton is playing, isn't second. So they're moving the ball, the sharing the ball, they're playing great at both ends, and they've been on an unbelievable hot street. The only reason they're not running away and safe as the top 16 is because the Timberwolves aren't losing games right now either. Both these teams have seven-game winning streaks. I don't know if either of them play tonight, but both of them have seven-game winning streaks, which is the longest in the league right now.

Yeah, and Golden State is in the middle of a seven-game home stand. I'm not sure how many they've got left. But you talked about the defensive rating. This is what has gotten them actually truly excited because you can have a hot streak where you're playing a bunch of home games and maybe Steph is red hot or a couple of your role players are red hot.

They're winning these games over this last 15, this 13 and 2. It's 13 and 2 or 14 and 2. I looked up the last 15. 14. I looked up the last 15 games. they were second in the league and defense in that time. And so that's the basis for doing something.

Teams haven't punished their lack of size. They're able to get away with that. I don't know how much they're going to be able to get away with the medium term. Well, it is interesting. If you look through the teams they've played, there haven't been a whole lot of real challenging opponents in this stretch. And it will be really interesting. You know, McMahon is going to be at this Denver game Monday night.

I am really curious to see how the Warriors look against the nuggets and Nicole Yokic. Because to me, I feel like if they play anybody in the West, I would feel pretty good about picking them, except for Denver and Oklahoma City because of the size those teams have inside. And I don't really like Golden State's ability to handle that over seven games. And it will be interesting to see how they look against Yokich and against the Nuggets and get a decent look at what that might look like if they match up.

They have three games left on this homestand. Right. And right after the Nuggets, they'll get another great chance to measure up against a big team. Yes, Milwaukee. Yeah, with the bucks coming in, obviously with the Janus is the headliner of a huge front court. So there, you know, a week ago, I was looking at everybody who was in front of them and I saw a bunch of teams that were banged up. And specifically the Rockets, who Fred Van Vleet had been out for a while, he'd come back and then got re-injured. And Amon Thompson, remember last weekend we were saying, Amman Thompson, you know, sprained his ankle and he's been such a key piece for them.

and I was thinking maybe they could make up some ground on Houston because they were like three games back. More hoop collective podcast after this. They have made up no ground on Houston because the Rockets have gotten Van Bleet back and lifted their offense. They're still not a great offensive team, but he's helped them.

They win games with defense. It helped that they played the Mavs the other day. That always will help you out. It'll help if they play the Sixers, Mawro. Awesome, sure. Right. And that helped if they played the Sons before the Maverick, if we want to be honest.

And the Pelicans twice before that. But that's their win streak. They have won six in a row. By the way, they've got the, they've got, yeah, they've got Philly, Orlando, Miami, then one game against Denver, and then Atlanta and the Jazz and the Sons. They could rip off a whole bunch of wins in a row here and put themselves in really strong position going into a pretty tough closing couple weeks in April to legitimately have the two seed, which would be a heck of an accomplishment.

And Amin Thompson is not like, he. He'll be out, or I'm sorry, he'll be back in March. Winning Zach, I couldn't tell you, but like, he's not going to be out long. That's very good news, given how that initially looked. Right. Van Bleed had his first, he had 23 points against the Bulls on Saturday night. That was the first sort of game he looked kind of right coming back. Also helped to play the Bulls, but yes. That's true. That's true.

You have to play who's in front of you. There's a lot of those games right now. Hey, but listen, you know, like, that's what you have to have. 100%. And for the Rockets, it's really. really, it's still, you got to look at them with a big picture view. Like the great thing about them competing for this seating right now and, you know, they're going to be a playoff team is that their young guys are going to get experience and it's a phenomenal chance to be

able to evaluate those young guys. So, you know, and by evaluating, a lot of this is like, hey, is that star potentially already on the roster? Is that number one guy that they can build around, the kind of guy you need to be able to contend for a championship is that on the roster. And I just spent a week in Houston. I'm working on a story along those lines. I can tell you that from Imi Adoka on up to the top, you know, to ownership, the hope is that that guy is on the roster. And there's a really high bar as far as if they're going to package stuff this summer and go after somebody. I'm not saying like, look, they'll have at least internal discussions about, you know,

obviously Kevin Durant's could be on a block. If we can go down the list of other star level players who might be on the block, they'll at least have internal discussions, how aggressive they'll be. They need to evaluate their guys first and foremost, and that'll tell you a lot of that. But they feel like, you know, there's maybe four or five guys on that roster who have a chance,

including Bond Tim's favorite shooting guard, Jalen Green. Yeah, I think the, when the, when the Rockets signed Jailen Green to that innovative, or at least unusual big contract last summer, it was partially because they believed in him, but they didn't know what his ceiling was. It was sort of like, we want to reward him because he had a great finish to last year, but we're not sure he's a superstar player.

So let's give him a contract. And it's not so much not knowing what his ceiling is. It's just like, okay, you can say a guy has superstar potential, but if the reality is he's not going to get close to it, that's one thing. And the efficiency and consistency is still not, there. I'm going to say something that might sound a little blasphemous, but compare Jaylon Green's first four years statistically to Devin Bookers. Just put the numbers up. It's not that different.

Jaylon Green. Oh, no, man. They are not similar players. Okay. I'm just telling you, the stats, the first four-year stats, when, you know, starting in their teams going on on rebuilding teams, you know, Jaylon Green has started 418. The last year went 500. This year is maybe going to in 50 games. We'll see. You know, the other thing they love about Jared Green, the guy does not miss games. He plays every single night. He's not missed a game underneath Meadoka. But, you know, they'll tell you that maybe their most talented offensive player is Reed

Shepherd. He's hurt now, but he's not a rotation player. Right. They still think he has a chance. Somebody there asked me with Amin Thompson, who obviously, like, he's going to be a star. Can he be that offensive engine? they said, tell me what Russell Westbrook at his peak could do that this kid doesn't have a chance to do. It's an interesting question.

I'm a big of man, Thompson, Blake. I'll just leave it at that. The Rockets love their players. That I can verify. I verify that. I will say, you know, they need offense. And since the All-Star break, Alperin Shungoon has been playing his best offensive basketball, some of the best stretch of his offensive basketball his career.

He's averaging 21, 10 and a half on 55 percent shooting. since the All-Star break. So he is strengthening as the season goes along. And look, I am not going to overreact to strength the schedule rankings because you can have a tough schedule, and then you play two games, and all of a sudden you have like a easy schedule because we're getting down closer to the end here.

But I will say this. Right now, the Rockets are in a three-way tie for the second seed, and the Lakers are one game back. Lakers won on Sunday. Luca had a good game. They beat the Sons. The Sons continue to be ridiculous. But anyway, so I'm going to call all four of those teams roughly tied.

The Lakers are one game back. B Rockets have the easiest strength of schedule amongst those four teams coming in. Doesn't mean that they're favored. I haven't talked to BPI and listened to their mumbo-jumbo. It should be noted, however, if you're looking to try to figure out how that's going to go, and Bontem's right off their upcoming games, the Rockets have an easier path. And you said the outlook on a men Thompson, you know, I think Shams said today, LeBron's at least a week away.

So Lakers are starting to get some of their guys back. And there are some tests later. They have the Lakers. They have the Lakers twice over the final two weeks of the season. Got a game against the Thunder, game against the Warriors, game against the Clippers, game the final day of the regular season against the Nuggets,

which could be a very important game for everybody involved. There's some, you know, there's some real tests down the stretch, which is why they got to take advantage of these soft games coming up because, you know, it's certainly for a young team, it's going to matter. are a lot if they can get home court in the first round and be able to start a series at home instead of going on the road to play one of these veteran teams.

And they want their guys to have those tests. You know, Rafael Stone and Patrick Fetita and Ime Adoka want to see their guys in big-time pressure situations. They want to see how all those dudes that we just mentioned, you know, Reed Shepard's probably not going to be part of it this year. But the other guys who are, you know, even your Jabari Smith Jr., Tar Heesens, you know, this young court, they want to see. how they play in high pressure, high stakes situations. It's getting great experience for them and a

great way to be able to evaluate them. Of course, you could never, no matter what, you could never assume anything in the NBA because, you know, you would have assumed strength of schedule-wise that the Nuggets would have a layup on Saturday and that they would still be ahead of the rockets. They lose it home to the, to the Wizards. Hey, the Wizards, they've earned their W against the Nuggets this years, have swept the Nuggets. They started playing better lately. Oh, yeah, great timing. Well, really nice game for Alex Sar on Saturday night, too.

Had 24 in the first half, 34, 6, and 5. Like, you know, he's, yeah, obviously, everybody remembers the game in Summer League and he missed all the shots right off the bat. But he, you know, he's starting to have some moments for them. And they're playing a little better and winning some games and, you know, making it interesting with Utah for who's going to have the worst record in the league. Yeah, Jordan Pull hit a 35-footer to win the game. Was that the buzzer or was it,

right before the buzzer. I think it was at the buzzer. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it might have been... 2.1, sorry. 2.1. Yeah, I thought there might have been a tick left.

The Wizards have won six out of their last 10 games, and I have not watched a single lick of it other than... I watched a little bit of the Nuggets just because I'm like, are you kidding me? It's like, I watched most of the fourth quarter because I'm like... I'm not allowed to watch games in Denver. I'm not sure you've heard that. Didn't know that.

Unless I'm in L.A. When I'm in L.A., like a couple days ago, I was watching Thunder Nuggets, and it was like, oh my God, this is a revelation. I didn't know these two teams. I didn't know these two teams were in the league. It's amazing.

I felt like you were getting away with something. I know. I was looking over my shoulder. When those pay per channels came in a little bit clearer than usual. Exactly. You've got it all figured out as usual. I will say that, you know, so they're six and four in their last 10. And I think the Wizards, obviously they were tanking this year.

I do not think that they planned on losing whatever it was. I think they've had two separate 15 game losing streaks or something. and they for a while had the worst net rating for a whole season. They were worst on record. They were threatening with that for a while. And so I think they said, you know, losing is one thing. Let's not threaten history. And so at the trade deadline, getting Marcus Martin, Chris Middleton, and then holding them.

I think they kind of wanted to turn the corner just a little bit. Chris Middleton being in that room with a bunch of young guys is going to help them immeasurably. You know, however whether you're there for three months or whether you're there for summer all the next season, having a guy like that around will help them a lot. It's kind of like what you quoted Matt Ishbia the other day in your story, Mann. The rebuild process is hard, and it's one thing to say you're going to do the rebuild. But when you are getting kicked in the teeth, 15 straight games, it can be a little bit hard on the stomach. And I think that was... Well, not only hard on the stomach, but you have to worry about, like, developing losing habits and like an acceptance of losing in your young.

guys. Like you, right. And honestly, the rockets have been able to turn it around, but that was a major threat for the first, you know, for a three year span in Houston.

And like, EMA had to get there and basically like, I'm not going to say beat the young, the losing habits out of guys, but, you know, metaphorically at least. Yeah.

And listen, nobody like, it's rebuilding as a miserable process. It's so miserable that Darry got ahead of things and, you know, bolted Houston. and landed in Philly where he was going to have a chance to win big.

I thought he was spending more time with his family. Oh, he took that gap week. And then he got to, he got to Philly where he's going to have a chance to compete for championships. And Sixers at Rockets on Monday night. Top Sixers. It's a great, it's a great clean monitor for you. Tough win for the top Sixers. The old Mavericks is like, look, there's the only eight we got.

We can't, what do you want us to do? And O' Quentin Grimes' Revenge game was a. tough win for the Sixers. Quentin Grimes, Quentin Grimes has been bawling. Quentin Grimes has been bawling and Caleb Martin has not played much. And Caleb Martin makes a pretty significant chunk more salary, especially once that 15% trade kicker got put in there than Quentin Grimes does, which has put the Mavericks $51,000 from the first apron, which is the week. All right, let's talk about that. So today, so, you know, speaking of getting kicked in the team, The Mavericks lost for the ninth time in 10 games.

It's a whole bunch and yeah. They did squeeze out a win over the Spurs this last week, which frankly was unexpected. Got a split against the Spurs. They remain ahead of the sons. They proved Michael Thompson wrong. Clay's dad when he was on L.A. He said they're going to win 10 in a row or lose 10 in a row. I can tell you, Clay didn't appreciate his dad making that sort of a prediction.

Well. He wasn't exactly out of line, maybe pissed off his son. All right, McMahon, can you, so before we detail, the Mavericks are on the have been close to on the verge of needing to forfeit in the last week. They're a player away from having a forfeit. Can you explain why? You got to have eight to play. Right.

And if you don't have eight available players, then by league rule, you're not able to. I mean, they wouldn't actually forfeit, right? They would just put, they would just dress a player who wasn't going to be. I would assume so. I would assume. I don't think they're. Just to be clear. Well, hold on.

The reason this has never happened. It's like this. The reason this is a thing is because of the new rules that have been put in with these hard aprons in the salary cap. So as McBan said, everybody focused on the big trade that the Mavs made. But they made this other trade where they traded Quentin Grimes out and took Caleb Martin made. And there was a seven million dollar difference in their salary, especially

with Caleb Martin, who obviously didn't get nearly as much as he wanted in his contract last summer, kept his 15% trade kicker, got some extra money in the deal. Because of that trade, Dallas is $50,000 below the first salary cap April, which they are hard capped at. Which they are hard capped at. So typically in the past, if a team like Dallas had a ton of injuries or guys got sick or whatever, you'd get a hardship waiver like the Sixers just did the other day. We saw this happened during COVID. There'd be eight guys in health and safety protocols and they would sign guys off the street and play them two games. The Sixers literally signed Osher set on Friday afternoon and played him both Friday against Indiana and Sunday against Dallas. They had a bunch of injuries

that said to the league, hey, look, all these guys are hurt. The league said, okay, go ahead and sign a guy. I think I saw that the Sixers for the game on Saturday or Friday or Saturday had 95% of their salary inactive or not inactive but unable to play. Unable to play. It was an all-time record. Yeah. As long as the records have such have been kept. Yeah, it was way over 150 million. So because the Mavs only have $50,000 below the first apron to spend, they don't have the money to sign a player. They can't sign a hard shit. Even if the NBA said, okay, you can have a ninth, because you have 15 players plus

three, two ways. You have 18 guys. Also, how many? Well, and right now they have, they have, they have an open roster spot that they can't fill with even a 10-day. Remember, Moses Brown, they signed, they basically had enough to have one full 10-day contract. They signed Moses Brown. His last two games, he averaged 18 points and 10 rebounds, and they had to let him go despite the fact that every other big man on the roster at the time was hurt. Right. Dallas stayed at 14 players because they wanted to get Caleb Martin in this trade. They got him. And because they got him, and they didn't have the ability to add a 15th player at the time. So, yes, if Dallas had the money available,

they could, they already have enough guys injured where they could sign a hardship guy now. The problem is, you can't just have an injured player sit there and say he can play. So if Dallas has another injury or if they run out of days for their two-way players, which they're running out of and they can cycle through them a little bit, but they only can do that to such a degree. But they're still sitting here with all these guys out in a couple weeks. We could legitimately be looking at a situation, where they'll have to forfeit a game,

which would be an incredible thing. Here's the problem. They have three two-way guys. As you're a two-way player, you're only allowed to play 50 games. Be active for 50. Be active for 50, right, on the roster for 50. And so.

I think Kessler-Rider was down to two more. I mean, it's tight. And Brandon Williams doesn't have a lot more than that. Yeah. So he doesn't have enough to be, on the active roster the rest of the season. That's the key. So they have two guys who within the next couple of weeks in theory could run out of two-way spots. We'll run out. We'll run out. Not good. It's not a two-way to replace them. It's too way. So like, so like, what they, from what

I understand, they have asked the league for relief and the league to this point is not offered them relief. And so what they would have to do is they would have- Here's a thing. The league can't offer him relief because this is why you have hard salary cap limits. If you say, oh, oh, well, hey, you had all these injuries, so we're going to let you get away with skipping past this apron to sign players. All the other teams are going to understandably go, hey, wait a second, why are they getting any breaks? Everybody's got to follow the rules.

That's why you leave yourself cushion with these kind of deals and don't put yourself $50,000 below the apron. And, you know, obviously it's a crazy set of circumstances that gets you here, but it's still a set of circumstances. Right. What they can do is they can wave, Kess, or other words, and Brandon Williams, I'm sorry. You were going to have a chance to have all these minutes,

but you're going to be waived and they could sign new two-way players. They can't. It's too late to sign two-way guys. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Huh. That was to subscribe. That was suggested to me as a way to do it because.

I believe I need to double check with Bobby. All right. Well, look, but even if they, regardless, even if they do do that, they still don't have any wiggle room with injuries. There's a limit to the, they can do a little bit of horse trading with the two-way days, but there's only a limit to what. they can do with that. And it can't get them all the way to the end of the regular season. Beyond going into all the weeds on this, I know too late, the Mavericks are, you know,

have put themselves in such a pickle because they've had a set of circumstances that is never been before seen. However, some lack of foresight has compounded the issue and put them into this situation. And again, the Quentin, like, forget the fact, Quinn Grimes is averaging 19 and change efficiently for the Sixers. Now, it's like a tank situation. But Quentin Grounds is also playing well offensively for the Mavericks. That trade is what's gotten them right up with their backs against the wall and these financial handcuffs put on them.

And they could have gotten out of that trade because Caleb Martin was more injured than they thought when they made the trade. They ended up getting a second round pick and returned as extra compensation. By the way, he missed today because of a hip thing that was more. what he missed all that time with. And it was like a game time decision. But the Grimes deal, in addition, just like the production is like, oof. But they didn't want to pay Grimes what he wants on his next contract.

And so they dumped him right up against the wall here. Well, and it all goes back to the irony of the initial trade that was made, right? Which is, well, we're worried about Luca's durability. They trade for Anthony Davis, not the most durable guy. He gets hurt. And they make this other trade. as you said at the time, it almost, you know, it got modified like the Laker trade could not get modified with the Hornets because it was after the deadline. The Sixers and Mavs did the trade

before the trade deadline. So they could go back to, hey, we want an extra draft pick and they got one. But they still did the deal. And he's barely played since. And obviously, AD has played 20 minutes. And 31 minutes. Sorry. Now, my understanding is AD is ramping up and nearing his retreat. turn. He's going to play like four on four or five on five this week. And so he, like, he could be back as soon as the last week of March. And, you know, which is, they're going to need them. Well, here's the thing. There are people who've kind of said AD, like, why? Like, why take the risk? He wants to play. He wants to play. Derek Levy the second is also ramping up. I don't think he's

quite as close. You know, there's a similar conversation we had there, but he wants to play. now obviously Kyrie's out for the season Daniel Gafford they haven't ruled him out for the season but he's not expected to be able to return Dante X and breaks his hand in the first half against Houston the other night they announced the next day that he will be re-evaluated in four weeks

hey that means there's a slim possibility that he could come back for the final game of the regular season well or the plan I mean they're you know they've lost they've lost all these games but they remain a game and a half. Well, they're a game in the lost column. That's all I care.

But they're a game ahead of the Suns. And the Suns can't win more than the occasional game. As miserable as it's been for the Mavericks, the Suns have barely made up any ground. And Bradley Beale has a little, you know, he missed the second half of the Hamstring Day. He's kind of been in and out. But like their stars have been healthy.

The vast majority of that roster has been healthy. And the Suns can't make up any ground on a Mavericks game. The Mavericks, it's like, my boys play in like a summer rec team and it's one of those things where you're calling around seeing if you have enough to play every single week because everybody's on vacation right yeah that's what the mavericks feel like right now by the way could I just say something happened in my household this weekend oh go for it are you going to get you in trouble probably could this could launch an investigation my son played on two teams this winter

my seven-year-old son one team never lost and one team never won all right I'm not going to go into the details about that. So he's 500. About. So there was this weekend to finish. The team that never won was going into a weekend series. Okay, a weekend tournament. The regular season was over and they have a little weekend tournament

where they play games on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And look, spring break. Played three days in a row at seven? That's correct. There ain't no load management at seven? Clearly not. Well, there's no load management on this team because they were down to like six and maybe even five guys because spring break is hit for someone.

these schools and some of these kids have gone. Well, my wife was tired of watching this team lose. So, guys, my wife took matters into her own hand and brought in three ringers. Okay. A little recruiting going on. She asked, she asked permission from the team. Hey, I don't want my, you know, I don't want my son to play in three straight games with no rest. So can I bring in some players?

and they said yes. And so she went and got three of the best players from the team that was undefeated. Well, there you go. Listen, it wasn't like they were 12. They were just other better coached. They were just better players. Better players.

And earlier today, well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know the league rules. Earlier today, there was photos of the team holding their medals for winning the tournament because they went 3 and 0 after not winning for months. They went three and O and our new teammates who had been with the team for 72 hours were holding their medals. Hey, good for that. And I had nothing to do with it.

My wife was a GM and she just stood back and smiled. I mean, hit her one of these college GM jobs, everybody's going on. I was going to say, it sounds to me like she ought to be getting at least as many executive of your votes as Nico Harrison. Well, I face potential sanctions because I've told this and now there could be an investigation. The medals could be stripped. Well, by the way, just to remind people about the Suns. So they play the Raptors on Monday, one of the hard tankers.

Then they play the Bulls on Wednesday, both at home. Two games, they really ought to win even amid their misery. The Bulls can't even tank correctly. They just had a four-game win streak. This is correct. This is the remainder of the Sun's schedule. Home for Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Boston, on the road for Minnesota, home for Houston, at Milwaukee, Boston, New York, home for Golden State, Oklahoma City, San Antonio,

and then finishing at Sacramento. That is a rough schedule. I mean, they're going to send a lottery pick to the Houston Rockets. Certainly seems that way. You know, I mean, I tell you. And blame Brooklyn for that. The trade the Rockets made with Brooklyn last summer has not age-werexed. well for the Nets. Well, that's too, that's way too strong to say. Brother, it's way too strong.

Are you serious? If the, okay. They have the three of the sons. This year's a swap. Oh, I see why you say it, because you've got Nets executive looking over your shoulder. Hey, we're talking about how bad that trade was last year. That is, that is not, that is not correct on any level. I would have, I'd have Eric come over here and say something if you wanted to. But no. Dude, they got back 25 and 26. control and they gave them this 25, 27, 29. The MAVs 29, which the value of that has gone up massively for obvious. And the rockets held on to the Nets 27 swap. And if the Nets win the lottery and get Cooper flag, it's worth all those picks and then so. So that's why you can't sit here

right now and say one where or the other what it means about anything. The Nets got the Nets had the ability to get to the bottom of this year's draft, which is loaded, and next year's draft, which is loaded. Now, maybe they'll have a bad job of that too. Well, look, right now they're in fifth place in the lottery standings. They could easily jump up. And look, they could wind up with the sixth pick in both drafts. Maybe Phoenix ends up sending a top four pick to Houston.

That would obviously be a wild outcome. But the Nets made the deal, and those picks were much more viable to them to have control of their draft the next two years. I understand at least get control of all three years. Well, I'm just saying you can't write the book on the trade in any form until we see beginning with what happens in May. Because if the next with a lottery, yes. I have a book with another trade.

Oh my gosh. The other trade, the book can already be written on the other trade beyond the book that you have written that will come out in eight days. Go buy your pre-order copies. This is going to be so exciting. We're going to wait. You guys think there's been promotion. Just you're just going to. We're going to have McMahon just on here reading.

McMahon is a shameless promoter in a normal time, let alone when it's putting money in his pocket. It's going to be a remarkable, it's going to be a remarkable thing to watch the book sale. Just real quick about the Nets. Did Cam Thomas reagravate his hamstring injury? He did. He hurt his,

guy, you took a step back three at the end of one of their last couple games and reagravated the same injury he's dealing with. Okay, because, you know, like any time he plays, he's liable to shoot them into victory. And so he's also liable to shoot them into defeat. But he's liable to shoot them into victory. And he's down now.

He's had three or four of these recurrences in his hamster injury this year. Well, I will just say this. The Nets have gotten their act together because they've lost, let's see, four or what? How are you doing that math on it? They've lost 10 of their last 11. Yeah. And I'm telling you, man, that that sixers, the top sixers getting that win in Dallas today was good for Brooklyn. Bad, bad, bad for the Sixers.

Great, OK, C. They're obviously playing the Hawks tonight, which Bond Tempt is about to go to this game. I think it's maybe it's already started. I don't even know. It has started. Okay. They're now a couple at halftime. Their last five losses have all been by five points or less, or maybe six points or less.

They had a crazy comeback Saturday night against Boston, nearly came back and won the game against the Celtics. They've got the message has, you know, I don't know what the message, you know, players don't tank, but maneuvers are made to lessen your chances. Look, Jordy Fernandez has done a hell. of a job and this team has played super hard, have been competitive every night. Now, you could argue, to McMahon's point, they've been a little too competitive maybe, but he's done a great job. And again, we'll see what happens in May, because if these guys wind up with the number one pick in the draft, then that trade was 100% worth it. Well, sure. And as we speak, there's a 10.5% chance of that happening. More Hoop Collective podcast after this.

We mentioned that the Cleveland is going to come to Phoenix soon. You're going to see Cleveland in the couple days, McMahon. We should mention their 16-game win streak came to an end today. A very big win for the Magic who are in need of it. They need of it. And look, the Cavs have wiggled out of the noose a number of times during that 16-game win streak, especially at home against some teams. They were heavily favored against. The Magic made a bunch of plays down the stretch of this game. Kent Tavius, Caldwell Pope, hit a clutch three. Paulo Bancaro. hit basically a clutch jumper that really provide them separation. And they got some stops.

There was one play where DeAndre Hunter had a good look from the corner that would have tied the game, and Bancaro came sprinting out at him. I mean, he was busting his backside to get out there. Or Hunter just missed it. The Cavs had actually, you know, the magic of one of the worst scoring teams in the league, one of the worst shooting teams in the league.

They made three more threes than the Cavs, who were the number one, three-point percentage. And the crazy thing is Cleveland actually had a back. shooting game for a change. 10 for 40 from 3. It was like they're 17 for 40 every game. Donovan had a possession late. Was it, were those had two threes on a possession?

I think it was to tie. But missed them both. Donovan had a really rough one. Nine of 28, three of 14 from three. Yeah, he had missed last couple games with the groin injury. Evan Mobley missed it. But forget about all that.

The magic executed down the stretch of the game. They held the high powered calves to like 103 points. Excellent win for them. And now Cleveland goes on a West Coast trip. So whatever it's worth to you. Might be a first-round preview, too. The seeds hold as they are now. For sure.

And that was a team that, you know, they went seven games with last year. Obviously, the two teams are different. I will say, Cavs are going on this West Coast trip. It's not the most demanding West Coast trip ever, but it's still a West Coast trip. And they are now, I think.

Why are we breaking down the Cavs schedule? Because. They got an eight-game lead. Oh, really? Oh, really? Oh, maybe you should just wait till the end of the paragraph. They are, they are whatever it's worth. A little spice after the loss.

Whatever it's worth. They have a one single game lead. Oh, that's right. There's more than just the Eastern Conference there, Bonn Tem. Oh, there it is. One game lead on the funners. We're already looking ahead of the NBA finals, folks. Write it in.

In the event. In horse predicting calves in the NBA finals. Oh, wow, this is an interruption clinic. In the event that Oklahoma City plays Cleveland in the final. What happens on this West Coast trip could be a difference. The Cavs, if they take a couple more losses, could slip behind. They've been ahead of the Thunder for weeks, but the Thunder never lose either. So.

Pondips, would you like to apologize to Wendy? That was a great point that really. It's a good setup. A lot of fouls were committed on that drive. the basket. That's all I'm going to say. Do I get an and one? I mean, Lord, and one and a flagrant two on Bontimps. He's out. Sure, sure. Bontemps is like Nick Claxon. If there were flagrant points, he'd be suspended by March. There's a person who's flagrant on this pod. It ain't me. I think it's safe to say. All right, before we go, Bontems, you were moved today, I think. What Broadway show did you see, by the way? I went to see Othello, a Jake

Gyllenhaal and Denzo Washington, which was... Excuse me. Offly good. McMahon, he was... No, I thought it was... I enjoyed, like, he was a nice little lefty big man for Georgetown back in the day. Go on. A fellow?

A fellow Harrington? Yes, that's what we're going to. Okay. It took me a second. Yes. All right. Anyway, you were moved earlier today when you watched the Memphis Grizzlies retire Tony Allen's number.

And I will say this. He had an amazing quote talking about the grit and grind grislies. or he says, we weren't no glitz and glamory team. You come in here, we might slap the bleep out of you. It was definitely the most profanity ever in a Jersey retirement ceremony. I mean, listen, the grind father is who he is, and that's why he will always be beloved in Memphis. And, you know, like Bontentz, you pointed out, like the cruise of this,

they didn't get to the finals. They obviously didn't want a championship, but they were a very good team for a long time that epitomized kind of the culture of the city they're in. And, you know, I think you could almost even make the argument that the grit and grind grizzies are more beloved in Memphis than the Toronto Raptors title team is in Toronto. Well, I did make any point because I haven't said anything.

But I would, I mean, I don't have to stop you there. I want to let Bontem talk about it. but no, a team that does not advance to the finals even does not. Because the reason I say that is because the Raptors, there are obviously guys there who were there for a while, but a mercenary led them to that championship. All right, we're going to set that aside and make room for Bontems here. I'll be back with you on that one.

A lot of Canadians are going to get mad at me when they listen to that. I've found that comment. No, I just have long found this Memphis team really fascinating. because in this era we live in where you either are a champion or a failure in the eyes of many people, I feel like that Grizzlies team is the only one that's sort of properly celebrated for being an iconic, awesome team that had a great run together and, you know, didn't, made the conference finals once, but didn't have some kind of, you know, championship equity or making it to the finals. and I wish that there was more of that around the NBA.

Because I just think there's an ability, I think we should be a little more celebratory at times of some of these teams that are good, but aren't quite good enough. And I just think it's cool how that Grizzlies team has resonated the way it has there. And they did an awesome job with the Zibo retirement and the Marcosol retirement. And Mike Conley will inevitably get the same. treatment. And like that team was just a super fun, different team played a different style. You know, Tony Allen, you know, embodied that more than anybody. And it's, I just wish there

was a little more of that around the league where it was like less of if you, you know, if you don't get to the finals or you don't win with a team, it's an epic failure and, you know, a pox on everybody's house. Well, I think a lot of it is about. continuity and that core four was together for years and years and years. You know, after teams that I could think of that were like, are like beloved despite not getting over the hump, like the,

the, the, the, we believe Warriors. The we believe Warriors, but that was like, that was a very specific team. I know,

but still, I mean, you say we believe in Golden State. I mean, you know, I'm not sure if Darren Davis is buying too many drinks. And that is more of a one playoff. series.

That's true, but this was like a whole era. So, but like the, the Kent Payton Sonics went to a couple of finals. You know, the Malone Stockton Jazz

went to a couple of finals. You know, the Hardin era rockets, there was a lot of change around him, but Hardin was obviously at the middle of it. And, you know,

obviously it was kind of a messy ending with Hartn. Not kind of like the guy, you know, was going to strip clubs and, you know, handing out honey buns to a little baby instead of going to training camp for the Rock because it was a very messy ending.

But Hardin's still beloved in Houston. That might be as close as I can kind of. But that's what I'm saying, though. I'm not talking about in Houston, right? Like most people, I would say almost universally, people clown on that Houston team. And I don't think they should. Probably, yeah, there's more shade thrown than there should.

And honestly, especially on Hardin. Yes. Because it's like a failure for, They were going up against an all-time. Right. That's what I mean. That team had an awesome run, got to multiple conference finals, pushed Golden State to the brink.

Like Hardin was one of the two or three best players in the league for a several year stretch, right? It was first or second in MVP four or five times. Like that's an awesome iconic run for that team. There, nobody talks about them like they talk about this Memphis team. The Lob City Clippers, another example. That team had been a moribund disaster for. decades. And then they have DeAndre and Blake and Chris and Redick and those guys. And yes,

they lost in the second round. But like, that was a super fun run for a few years. And like nobody talks about them. Like everybody again, just like hoax fun at them for, you know, everybody remembers to Chris Paul meltdown against OKC or these other games that they lost. And they remember the Donald Sterling just disaster. Right. Obviously, that's a separate part of it. But I just mean, I just find it really interesting that this Grizzlies team that made the conference finals once is universally everywhere light and respected. And I just wish there was more of that. It's about being like the tough, gritty, nasty, but lovable underdogs.

You know, and it's almost like the fact that they were a small market with, and they had guys who were all-stars, but they didn't have guys who were superstars. and, you know, Zeebo was an All-Star, I think, a couple of times, you know, Gassol, however many times. Conley actually never was in Memphis. You know, Tony Allen, and Tony Allen was funny. Like, the face of it was a guy who, did he ever average double figures in Memphis? If he did, it wasn't often. It was barely, yeah.

Yeah. You know, the face of it was a guy who just had just nastiness and toughness, but also just this, like, I mean, if you ever have a conversation with Tony Allen. Like, you're going to be smiling. You're going to be laughing. I was just going to say, I was just thinking about, yeah, I just started smiling and thinking about having a conversation with Tony Allen, alone, having one. His persona was not, the way it was enjoyable, it is enjoyable to talk to him is against his persona on the court, which is a complete nasty, complete nastiness. Yeah, and you know the story of how grit and grind was coined, right? I don't remember it

You should tell the story It's a good story So and I don't remember the player who sat out But I probably leave his name out of anyway So they're going to play Oklahoma City And this was TA's first year In Memphis And the player who's

Supposed to be matched up With KD Not too long before the game was like Ooh yeah I'm banged up Can't go tonight You know He had a little KDI

And so Tony Allen, who's like, he's, he's not just a hell of a defender because of natural ability and all that. Like part of it is the man prepares and he digs in in his preparation. He's told not too long before the game that he's matched up with KD and he wasn't happy about it. Not that it wasn't happy, not that he didn't want the challenge, but it's like, I got to be prepared. Anyways, Tony Allen ends up having a crazy game. Like scores 20-some-odd points, fills up the box score, does a good job on KD, the Grizzlies win the game, and then Rob Fisher, who comes from the Craig Sager School of Sartorial Splendidness, is a sideline report.

Yes, his shoe collection is legendary. Yes, another great character down there in Memphis. You know, Rob Fisher is interviewing Tony Allen for the post-game walk-off, and that's a when Tony Allen growled, you know, all heart, grit, grind. And that, that gritty and grind was born that night. So it wasn't like a, it became a, a marketing thing, right? It became something that the franchise latched on to. Well, that's, I will say this. It was, it was organic. Memphis for years, despite not being a great market relative to its size and wealth. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's not going to confuse itself with the Bay Area, okay? Memphis has had tremendous operations with their

organization. They absolutely make the most of their market. They've won numerous awards for, for, you know, front office operations. The way that they married that, the persona of that team to that marketing was one of the best I've ever seen in my 20 plus years. The only other I can compare it to. In Detroit, when the Pistons had their big run in the 2000s, they had this, you know, we're going to work type thing. And it was perfect for that team with Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton and Tashon Prince.

They were a very defensive latent team. They used to have games where they would give away, you know, vests, you know, like reflective vests and hard hats. And they would have a steam whistle that would go off at the start of the game. in their intro, the Ben Wallace would go. It's time to go to work. And he would break the other team with a sledgehammer on the scoreboard. Now, let's point out that Auburn Hills is hardly a blue-collar area.

And it was not exactly like it was in downtown Detroit with a bunch of people who were coming out of the factory. But nonetheless, that was perfect for that team and that city is perfect for the way the grit and grind team, the grind house and all that stuff and stuff they did during the game. Now, let's say something else. The greatest compliment I can give to Tony Allen involved Kevin Durant. And that was, I've talked about this series a lot. It's one of the greatest series I've ever covered. I've covered 100 playoff series is one of my most memorable. Seven game series between the Grizzlies and the Thunder.

Very intense. A lot of stuff happened in it. But I remember game six. It was in Oklahoma. It was in Memphis. Tony Allen for five and a half games had hounded Kevin Durant. And Durant had some bad games in that stretch. Well, that was the famous headline in the Oklahoma.

Mr. Unreliable. But I think that had to do with more free throw shooting, but whatever. So it's game six. And for 10, 12 days at that point, Tony Allen has been hounding Kevin Durant. Now, Kevin Durant is six inches or so taller than Tony Allen, maybe more. I was going to say, I bet it's more. Okay.

So I remember this play where Durant comes from the baseline and comes up to the foul. line and runs through two screens. They're trying like crazy to get Tony Allen off of Kevin Durant. Durant runs around, catches the ball at the foul line, completely wide open. There is nobody within five feet in any direction because Tony Allen's got caught up on the screens. The play works perfectly.

As soon as Durant catches the ball, the first thing that he does is cover up and turn because he was so used. to Tony Allen being on top of him at all times that he was convinced that Tony Allen was still there. And when you are a great defender that you can make Kevin Durant, who was at the absolute peak of his powers, and this is not a commentary on Durant,

it's a commentary on Tony Allen. Yeah. But you can, and you know he could rise up over, Alan. But when you can defend, when you're such a great defender and so physical and so great that you can defend when you're not even there because of your reputation

and what you've done over the course of six games, I couldn't think of a better compliment. And I'll never forget that play. And I remember talking about that play to Patrick Beverly one time because I've always thought about it is like one of the quintessential things about a playoff series when you know two teams.

And I swear to God when I was telling Beverly this story, he got misty-eyed because that's the kind of stuff that Beverly, you know, like dreams of doing. Oh, yeah. Speaking of it. Great player field goes. By the way, I'm looking up Tony Allen's stats. He never averaged double figures in Memphis.

The most of you ever average was 9.8 points per game. But like when during the heyday of the original Grit and Grin' Grind Grizzlies, literally the first thing, one of the first things you would see when you arrived at the Memphis airport was a huge ad with Tony Allen in the middle of it. He was like the unofficial mayor of Memphis. That's how beloved he is in Memphis. Yeah. And to speak of Beverly, you know, Russell Westbrook obviously had his run-ins of Beverly. And obviously, like KD, he was guarded by Tony Allen.

in this video that they did for Tony Allen's Jersey retirement. They talked to Katie. They talked to all these guys in Westbrook, who's not exactly the most effusive and praise of people, was quoted several times in the video, including at the end where he said there's not a lot of real ones in the NBA, but Tony Allen is absolutely one of them, which from Westbrook is about as high praise as you're going to get. Right.

Well, hats off to the grind father. You deserved it. and I always did enjoy covering that version of the Memphis team. So, all right, thank you to Bontemps, thank you to McMahon. Thank you to Jackson, who's here. And thank you for watching and listening to The Hoop Collective. We will talk to you, leave this week. Adios amigos.