Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Why The Future Of NBA Europe Is Uncertain + Explaining The Current Process

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

Brian Windhorst is joined by the publishing director for Eurohoops Aris Barkas to break down what the future plans are for the NBA in Europe including if the concepts are feasible, how everything could potentially work and the state of the current landscape of European basketball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome with the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we are doing on Thursday afternoon. We have a bit of a different show here today because I'm bringing on a special guest from Greece, Aris Barkas, who I will introduce here in a second. But this is a European basketball version of the podcast today as we're coming forward to the NBA in Europe, potentially either joining in a big partnership or going to battle head to head. And I think it's going to be determined very soon. So without further ado, here's Aris. Okay, as promised, joining us, I believe from the Athens-Greece area.

I don't know the exact municipality that you're in. I wouldn't dare you to pronounce it, you know. It's Trakow Macedona, so forget it. Let's see Athens. Yes, I'll say Athens. I'll embarrass myself even further. Aris Barkas, am I saying that correctly? Please correctly say your name, Aris Barkas.

Totally correct. Okay. He is one of the leading voices in international basketball. He is the executive, I guess, publishing director. Is that your title, Eurohoops? Yes, right now. Eurohoops is an authoritative European basketball hub, and it is something I've been reading Eurohoops and Aris's work for God, many years.

I don't want to age you. How many years ago did we meet, do you think? We never crossed paths in 2006 in Saitama. Yes. But we were both there. Well, we may not have crossed paths, but we were definitely sitting with each other. Probably. Probably.

Yes. We formally met. I think it was in China. I think that's right. In China, first time we had some interaction, but the first time that we were properly met it was in China and the FIFA World Championship. Yes.

He's referring to in 2006, one of the most amazing games I've ever covered was when the Greek national team defeated the Team USA in the semifinals of the World Championship just outside Tokyo. Well, let's just make this story time presented by SoFi. Get Your Money Right. One of the most remarkable games, it was a humiliating game for the U.S.,

but the Greeks played brilliantly. One of the, you know, it's regarded in the U.S. as an embarrassment game, but if anybody ever went back and watched it, it was really incredible high-level basketball. It was a combination of great strategy, great execution, great shot-making. and I recently, Aris, I recently reviewed it. So in that game, the Greeks scored 101 points in 40 minutes.

Which was crazy for this theme. This team won games by defense. But the second thing was this great quote that Theo Papalukas had after the game because the Americans were behind, but I want to say it got to be about 12 or 15, maybe even 17. And LeBron, Dwayne Wade, Carmine O'Anthony tried a comeback and it fell short. And Papal Lucas was saying that, you know, they were aware that the Americans can come back on them. And so his quote was, I think, and it may not be exactly right, but this was the general quote, was,

we know the Americans, they can come back. In the States, I think you say, the game isn't over until the fat lady she come out. side. And I love this quote because it's not quite right, but it's sort of indicative of the way that team operated. Okay. It was a little bit lost in translation, you know, from... Well, I don't speak Greek, and I couldn't say any Greek, any Greek, you know, any Greek, you know, sayings or anything. So, you know, he scores in my book. Essentially, a Greek American player coach introduced this quote to Greek basketball, and now you hear this, the translated this question. Right. Okay, so the reason what we have you here today is that this is a, we're at a big

inflection point in the future of the European basketball and as it relates to the NBA. We have two big meetings coming up. One, the NBA owners are meeting next week in New York. And I believe coming out of that meeting, we will hear a firm direction or at least a, the beginnings of a firm direction from the NBA. And then maybe you could tell us what is going to happen in the Euro League. And actually, you know what? You start with this. For our listeners who don't know how it works, could you briefly explain how European

basketball is organized, Euro League, the National League's Euro Cup and the Basketball Champions League maybe, unless you have other ways you want to say it? It's a little bit complicated. So I will try to be as deductive as possible in order not to create more confusion. So we have, let's say, the top level, which is the EuroLeague, which is a private league. It was established back in 2001. Essentially, the big clubs decided that FIBA was not at the time ready to create a fully professional league that cover their needs. And they decided to create one for themselves.

those clubs are also competing in the domestic leagues but in order to qualify for the EuroLeague you have to have either a permanent stop post you may get a wild card depending on the year and also you can qualify by the Euro Cup which is the second tire of the Euro League and you can qualify to the Euroc via your results in the domestic league and here where things are getting complicated it's already pretty complicated, but yes, go on.

Yes. We have also the Basketball Champions League, which is directly organized by FIBA. You get qualified there only by the domestic league. There is no other way that you can get in the competition. And essentially the Basketball Disciples League and

Euro Cup are already competing for the second tire. So it's a little bit unclear how you get to the Euro Cup. And this time around, because EuroLeague is expanding and Euro Cup is also expanding. For the first time, we had a massive influx of basketball teams in the Euro Cup

that either have one-year deals or five-year contracts. So essentially, EuroLeague is providing some sort of stability in the second tire and also give the second tier the chance to fight for two spots in the EuroLeague, in the elite of the sport. Yeah, so there are some EuroLeague, how many EuroLeague teams have permanent licenses? They will never leave the EuroLeague. And how many come in and out?

In a league of 20 teams, 13 are sellholders. They have permanent licenses. That was the word that it was used. But first of all, out of those 13 teams, 13 teams, there is Jessica Mosco, which due to the war in Ukraine, can play, but they remain sellholders. And also, we have to take into account the fact that EuroLeague is now transforming the licenses to franchises. Because, probably because of NBA Europe. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

So, okay, so I think the key big overarching thing is that EuroLeague is the top league. And that is where most players who come into the NBA out of Europe come from a Euroleague team. Luca Donchich, for example, came from, he was dominating the EuroLeague for Real Madrid. But there's no college basketball in Europe. So there's lots of different levels there. And there's two big giant organizing bodies. One is, you know, EuroLeague itself. and then the other is FIBA, which runs the Olympics and the World Cup.

And they do not get along. Maybe it sort of comes in and out, but in general, they have been at odds. Would you say that's right? Yes, but I have also to add that this is the, let's say, historical context. Because during the last few years, especially after a change of leadership in FIBA, which is the equivalent of FIFA. It's the world governing body. I think that there is a very, very different approach to the relationship with the EuroLeague.

And there are at least some very high-ranking officials of FIBA are very open to discussions with the EuroLeague and trying to find our way to coexist. As the MBA began this process of starting a European division, they partnered with FIBA. So they really kind of lined up opposite EuroLeague. And I remember when this really started coming to light where basically the NBA admitted that this was about to happen. This was in Paris two years ago

when the Spurs came over to play the Pacers and pretty much the entire league office was there. I made a joke to some of the people there. I'm like, who's the designated job? survivor who's back in New York. But the entire League office basically had come to Europe to have meetings with all kinds of stakeholders. And from that going onward, I mean, Adam Silver has discussed the concept of this going way back, but that really sort of was the moment for me, you know, sitting there in the room in Paris, that this was like going forward. And they were

working with FIBA on this. FIBA officials were coming to NBA owners meetings and giving presentations. And so it sort of builds us to this. The NBA and the EuroLeague have had meetings over the course of the last year or so. But I like, just for the storytelling purposes of this, there's a big meeting coming up from the EuroLeague owners. And maybe you can tell me about that. I believe it's at this very impressive, like, all the state. resort hotel in Lake Como, which I like the idea of just visualizing it, but it's going to be in a couple of weeks. And I wonder if you could tell me what you know about what that's going

to entail. It will be on the 5th of October. So yes, let's say that in the timeline of what will happen with European basketball, this is a landmark. The date, the exact date and the story was broken by a traditional and very respected Italian newspaper, Gazeta de Los Pol. So yes, it's confirmed that in the 5th of October, EuroLec will have this meeting. But this meeting, at least as far as I know, it will be more like a ceremony of welcoming 80 new franchises in the EuroLec fault. it's not that connected with the ongoing talks with the NBA, which in my opinion, and as you also know,

because of new EuroLeague CEO Chus Bueno, who was a part of the NBA ecosystem until recently, I think they are continuous, they are kept off the public light, and if you ask me, considering the way that European funds, European clubs, or even European media react, this is for the best.

Yeah, so basically, yeah, so what's basically happening is the NBA is intending to, I think, go forward with this NBA Europe to start. They say in 2027, I'll believe that when they actually say it and it starts. I think that's a lot to do in a year, but in theory it could start in a year. And basically EuroLeague and the NBA are both, you know, and you mentioned just Bueno,

Ches Bueno, who is the new CEO. He used to work in the NBA with the NBA. He just was named, I think, earlier this year. And so, and he has basically said, I am open to working with the NDA, but we could go it alone. And Adam Silver and Mark Tatum have basically said the same thing. We could work with your league or we could go it alone.

And so in the coming weeks here, maybe coming days, there's basically probably going to be a decision about whether there's going to be a marriage or a battle. Let me help you on that. Please. We're recording on Thursday. Yes. The word is that by this weekend, then B.S. should present an offer, not exactly of buying the EuroLeague, an offer of cooperation with the EuroLeague. And what is confirmed at this point is that the EuroLeague is waiting for such an offer, but so far there is nothing in the table. Right. And the fact that this offer is potentially coming right next to an NBA owner's,

meeting is why this is an inflection point. This is a key moment. And so the strange thing here is not strange, but the interesting thing is that there are owners of the Euro League teams. And there are going to be owners of the new NBA Europe, which, just to be clear, and I think if you're listening to our podcast in the middle of September, you know this, but I'll just be clear that these teams will not play in the NBA. There will not, there may be cross games. Someday, there may be cross games, and certainly exhibitions will happen. But these, you know, just in case, I see this happen a lot, people say, oh, are they going to play the NBA teams? Not, no, they will not be in the same league, just to be clear. I know that that's a, that's a baseline

explanation, but I just wanted to say that. But there are people that have made, offers to the NBA to buy these brand new Euro, these brand new NBA Europe teams. But they're also pre-existing Euroleague teams that have existed in some cases for 100 years that have owners. And the idea of marrying those two together, whether by some sort of merger or some sort of buyout, it's very complicated to say the least. And there's a lot of unknowns. It's even more complicated than you described it because some of those teams are clubs. So essentially there is no owner.

Right, right, which is, yes. Okay, so I, before this podcast, I spoke to the NBA. And a lot of this stuff is already public knowledge, but I wanted to say what basically their idea is. Okay. So they want a hybrid model. And a hybrid model means that they will have permanent teams that will never leave the top lead of NBA Europe just like EuroLeaks. I think 12 permanent franchises is what they envision at least to start. And then there would be four teams that could move into in and out of NBA Europe. So this league would have relegation, but not for the permanent teams, just for those four teams. And it would be for one year. You'd get in for one year.

And the pathways, this is just their proposal. I mean, this is just what they're doing. But their pathways for how you would get in would be to be the basketball champions league. So that's basically saying that's FIBA's operation, not EuroLeaks operation. That's FIBA's operation. So that's elevating FIBA with that. Say if you want to, you know, join the league, you'd have to do really well in the basketball champions league. And then a tournament of the domestic league champions.

So you would take the champion of Spain, of the Spanish League and the Italian League and the Greek League. And they would play a tournament. And the top two teams from that tournament would also advance into the 16th. So basically, you could wing your way in. Let me help you on that. Because this is also public knowledge, I'm not dropping any bobs here, just for mainly the USL didn't understand what's going on. FIBA has, let's say, one condition in the cooperation with the NBA,

and this is that 25% of the new European League of NBA Europe will be always open for qualifications. because this is essentially the European model. Correct. Right now, this means four spots out of 16. So the finalist and the winner of the BCL of the Basketball Champions League will qualify for the inaugural NBA Europe season and we will have at the 15th of July and for one week

one end of the season tournament where the third. third and the four team, the losers of the semifinals of the BCL Final Four, together with six teams from the top ranking European leagues, will compete for the two remaining spot. In theory, those teams can be champions, but here's where things are starting to get to European and too complicated. There are many cases where the domestic league champions are EuroLeaks teams. Yes. So if that's the case, we go just to the higher ranking team of Olympiacos, are they the current champions of the Greek League? Exactly.

And they are the current EuroLeague champions. Exactly. So they would, you know. And so if there's 13 permanent, so here's where they, well, let me just put it this way. Do you believe that, so if you have, you know, if you have 20 Euro league teams and there's going to be 16 NBA Europe teams, do you believe that if they operate differently, do you believe that the ecosystem in Europe can they support 36

top level teams? Is that something that is in your view realistic where there could be 36 teams operating in these two leagues? The short answer is no. The diplomatic answer is let's see what may happen. And what history teaches us is that

this is not the first time that will happen. When EuroLeague was created back in 2001, for one season we had two rival competitions. The EuroLeague, which was run by the clubs and the Super League, which was run by Fibba. This lasted only for one season. After one season, the two leagues were merged.

So no matter who you ask in Europe, they will say to you that even if we have two leagues, it's just a matter of time for the two leagues to merge. Right. And so the NBA sales point here is that anybody can work their way up into the top league, low level team, you know, just like in, you know, the Premier League in English soccer, that a third division team could rise up and eventually make it there. And they believe that this is healthy and very European. And that's not necessarily something that can happen in the Euro League.

And so they like the idea of having an open system. And that's a sales point. And also a pretty clear path, because in theory this can happen also in the EuroLeague, A team from the domestic league can qualify to the Euro Cup and then get to the EuroLeague. But what we have seen in recent years is that if there is a project, let's say, that it's ready to flourish. And the right of view is so, EuroLeague will help it. For example, both newly created teams from Rome will compete in the Eurocab next season, despite one of them clearly aiming to be part of NBA Euro.

Right. Well, you bring that up. So let's talk about that. So there are obviously going to be new teams here, whether or not there's a partnership between the Euro League and the NBA or not, there's going to be new teams. There's, you know, for example, probably a new team in London, potentially a new team in Paris, for example. And they're going to, you know, get a lot of money for those teams.

You know, the amount of money, you know, the NBA is saying that they think that they will get between $500 and a billion for some of these teams. Some people think that that's a laughable number. but they say that they have 12 spots and that they have offers on all 12 of those spots. Okay. And I also have to add that the newest unconfirmed information is that the London Bit can end up being $1.5 billion. Okay. Well, if they get $1.5 billion, I'll congratulate them for that.

That would be a terrific thing. And they say that this money, yes, some of it will go back to the NBA. and to the NBA owners, but that they will use this money to invest in each of these clubs down to the youth level, that this money will largely be redirected back to investing because this is a long-term project and they want, or invest in the infrastructure of each team to build from the ground up. You know, again, this is what they say. It sounds altruistic. Who knows how true is, but this is their position.

And, you know, but getting back to Rome. So Rome doesn't have a top-level team right now. And two different teams have emerged over the last year. One is partially owned by Luca Donchich, and that is known as BC Roma. Is that a team that's moving from somewhere, Ariz? Or is that? Both teams have moved from Cremona, and I don't remember the other spot, because that's the rules of the domestic league. you have essentially to buy out, let's say a sport, a license, a club in order to create something new.

There is no way in European sports in the domestic league level that you can create from scratch a top level team. Right. So the other team is Maxima Roma. Maxima Roma, yes. And so all of a sudden there's going to be two Rome teams. One of them is probably going to be an NBA year. One of them is probably not. I guess theoretically they both could eventually qualify. Luca's team has, you know, lined up some big names. Just this week it came out that Brian Calangelo,

former two-time executive at the year in Phoenix and Toronto. Obviously, it was a GM in Philly. He will be a part of this team. Maxima, Roma put out a big social media push last week because Francesco Totti, I'm ignorant on Italian soccer. Would he be the messy of Italian soccer? I have to correct you on this. of all, it's Totti.

Okay. Please correct me. Totti. Francesco Totti. Secondly, he's, let's say, a goat in Rome. A goat, yes. It's more, for Rome, he's much more important than Messi. Okay.

He's the Maradona of Rome. Let's put it like this. Right. So he is one of the biggest names in Italian sport and certainly Roman sport. And he is aligned himself with Maxima, whereas Luca Dantzic is aligned with B.C. And so this is what's sort of going on in the ground in Europe is like there's this, there's this struggle to like position yourself to be a part of this. And, you know, it is kind of fascinating, but I just have no idea which direction it's going to go. And I don't know how much our average NBA fans care about this.

But it's a, you know, and what what he's described, what Aris is describing is, you know, picture that, you know, like for decades in America, there was no, NFL team in Los Angeles. So say that there was going to be a new league and, you know, on spec, like someone bought the, I don't know, the Minnesota Vikings and someone else bought the Seattle Seahawks and moved them or planned to move them to Los Angeles in the hope that they could both get into the NFL. I like your comparison, but it's not like this. It's like getting the rights of a third division college or second division college

in hopes that you can move, let's say, the seat of the college and be in the top division, something like this. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. I don't want to insult University. here. I could give some examples, but I don't want to insult universities because they'd be say, what do you call us third? We call us third rate. But yes, okay, you're right with the idea of getting promoted to it. So there's this, you know, you know, and say the question is, there's a reason why Rome doesn't have a team, right? There's a reason why London doesn't have a team.

There's a reason why Paris, Paris has a couple of teams, but none of them are very, you know, massively successful. And, you know, that's what, that's what sort of the pushback on this is, is that, you know, if this was such a thing that people wanted, then why, you know, it's like the people and the fine citizens of Rome aren't aware that basketball exists. They have not supported a team to this level. And so here's where I can, here's where I can say, because Arias, about six months ago,

I was talking to an NBA owner, and I asked him about NBA Euro. And he said at the beginning, I was absolutely with all the skeptics. Everything that you may say, I would agree. with. You know, why do we think that we're smarter than, then, you know, then people in Europe? Why do we think that we can do this better? And he even pointed out, he goes, you know, we started the WNBA. It's been a loser for 20 years. It's now getting going, but for 20 years it was a loser. We started the G League. And it's been successful as a development thing, but it loses money. The basketball Africa League, which, you know, was the NBA poured a lot of money in two of the last decade.

it's a money loser. He's like, maybe we shouldn't start another league that, you know, that may be a money loser. But he said that as he studied it over the last year, he's come around on it. And now is a full supporter of it. And, you know, knows that it's not going to work in the first year, but talks about it over a 15 or 20 year time window. And so one of the, you know, for example,

for American fans to sort of understand, I offer up L-AFC. This is the Los Angeles Football Club in the MLS. The MLS on the world stage is a second-rate league, maybe even third rate. The players in the MLS are not as good as the players in Europe. MLS teams, you know, they could beat, you know, some European teams in one-off situations. But if an MLS team went over to a top European league, they would largely get beat, be pretty happy, be pretty sound. The star European players come to the MLS to get big paydays at the end of their careers.

At the peak of their careers, there has not yet been a top star who would come to the U.S. It's considered a step down. But if you look at LAFC, they were created in 2014. Their expansion fee was $110 million. At the time, people were like, wait a minute, there's another MLS team. This is what you might say about Rome, for example, or Paris. There's another MLS team in L.A., the L.A. Galaxy. They had David Beckham, and people are not clamoring for more soccer in Los Angeles.

But people said, well, there's a ton of people in Los Angeles, and there's a lot of people who are interested in soccer, and if it's done correctly, it can be successful. But there were plenty of skeptical people about needing another team. They spent $350 million on the stadium. So they spent three times as much on the new stadium. to build than they did on the team itself. And over the last 12 years, it has turned into a humongous success, where it is now valued, including the stadium by the American publications, Forbes and Sportico, at about $1.3, $1.4 billion. They have a great fan base. They've had some

big-time European star players. Right now, Henman's son, who is a former star at Tottenham Hotspur, one of the South Korea's greatest all-time players, is on their team. He is deemed past his prime in the Premier League, but he's on their team. They have gotten star players over the years. But that is, I think, what the NBA is hoping for here, Ari, that over 15, 10 to 15 years, that their marketing and their operation of, you know, having fun at a game. Like, you go to a EuroLeague game and you go to a NBA game, and they're very different. Now, the EuroLeague game has much more natural energy, especially.

I went to an eternal derby last year in Delgrade. The loudest I've ever heard in the arena when some of a teen comes in the back. Bezo Vegas. What's that? Beesaw Vegas. Oh, my God. My name is called. The EuroLeague invited me to a Greek derby between Olympiacos and Penafinicos.

How would I do with those pronunciations? Terrible? No, no. Very typical. Pretty good. Okay. which I'm told is even a higher level, not to insult my Serbian friends,

but even a higher level of intensity that happens in Athens. And I am going to try to make that happen at some point to come over and experience that. The energy level is incredible, but the production of the game is very different than an NBA game. And the production level of, you know,

the getting of the revenue is different. You know, when I went to Belgrade, you could buy water, Coke Zero, or popcorn. That's what you could buy in the arena, for example. And not bottle for abuse results. Clearly, yes. Where people were getting the M80s to throw? Those were not on sale at the concession stands,

but they somehow got them in there or the flares. You know, the NBA has a completely different offering. Now, we can debate about whether or not that's what the European fan wants. Someone going to Belgrade wouldn't think of wanting a lobster roll or a filet mignon slider like you may be able to get at an NBA game. You never know. Right. But the concept was that LAAFC, you know, and they did a great job with their fan club and they gave great things. And so LIFC doesn't hold a candle to Real Madrid or FC Barcelona or Manchester City.

or even to, you know, partisan and Red Star's soccer clubs. But the experience of going to a game was attractive to the audience, and now it's worth a billion plus dollars. And so the concept of the NBA here is if we start a team in London and we start a team in Paris and we get a team from the EuroLeague like Alba Berlin, or we get a team like Olympiacos, that even is even better because it has a history and fan base. And we say, here's how we're going to run it, that these teams over the course of 15 years may not be able to equal the Lakers.

If they played the Lakers or the Nix or wherever the class of the league was, yeah, maybe they may be able to beat them in a one-off situation. But they're not going to necessarily beat them. But we may be able to engage a segment of Paris or London or Manchester or even Rome that doesn't exist now and that these can be successful. This is what this owner is saying to me. And this is why they think they're going forward to this. So after making this whole presentation to UREs, what say you about all that? Thank you for explaining all this to the European fans. Because I have tried to and they don't get it.

Right. We all agree that European basketball is totally undervalued. This is the blunt truth. There is no way to conceal what's, let's say, the bottom line of what the sports produces. When it was first reported that EuroLeague, I think three years ago, was valued one billion. Most of the European fans left and said that this is not possible

because the teams are losing money. When Rain first announced that the ecosystem in Europe and Middle East, the basketball ecosystem is worth that their estimation around 3.5 billion. Some heads were turned but nobody really understood what this, let's say,

process meant. I think that the interest of the NBA ultimately helped even the EuroLeague, because now you see the EuroLeague changing the page, thinking much more in an American way,

and getting ready to make the club's franchises. Suddenly you have investors that are really interested in putting the money and putting a very low bet for them that can multiply by amazing numbers. If you want to get a franchise in the EuroLeague right now, it's something like 90 millions. So this is peanuts for the money that is thrown around. in professional sports globally. So my only

let's say doubt, and this is a really big doubt, I'm not worried about Rome. Rome for many years had Virtus Roma, which was a great team. Danny Ferry, I think famously, didn't play in... I'm not playing

for the Clippers, I'm going to go play for Roma. So my biggest doubt is the UK. Yeah. If the NBA managed to turn basketball to mainstream in the UK, this will be a miracle. Well, I was just in Manchester over the weekend. They are running advertisements. The Spurs and Pelicans are coming to play there in January.

They are running advertisements for the NBA games. They have a great arena, so we'll see. But the NBA is trying to lean into Europe. They're putting 115 games. Last year, they had 88 games that were. slotted for prime time in Europe because the hardest place to watch the NBA is in Europe. That's the toughest time scam. I mean, the top NBA games come on in the middle of the night for you. There's no way for you. If you really wanted to watch a game, you know, you'd have to

upend your entire life, a prime game. I commented. So you upend your whole life. So you know one of the most famous slogans in the Spanish coverages of the NBA were the NBA huge was that sleep is overrated or for cowards. Right. So that makes total sense. It's no way to have it to, it's no way to market, though.

But so the NBA last year had 88 games that were in prime time in Europe. They stretch prime time a little bit there, but basically afternoon games. This year there's 115. So they are trying to and part of that is Amazon,

the new NBA partner, is, you know, more available in Europe, Amazon Prime Video. And so they want, they're leaning into having some more games there. Plus, they're featuring Victor Wenbenyama. They want Wenbenyama to be a star. Plus, it helps them a little bit, that time frame helps them a little bit elsewhere. But anyway, they're trying. They're trying to engage a European fan. But, you know, during the Paris Olympics, I had dinner with an official from the L.A. organizing committee. And he was about two weeks into the Olympics. And I was saying, well, how does Paris compare with what you're playing in Los Angeles?

And he goes, well, they're not selling alcohol at the venues. You know, that's, I don't know, probably $100 million left on the table. We'll be selling alcohol at the venues. The merchandise situation is rough. I talked about this a lot of my podcast. I was aghast at the quality and lack of availability of merchandise. It's not something that Americans are used to. Americans are used to being able to get merchandise on every corner at all times,

have delivered by Amazon. If you wanted, you know, if you were there and you wanted to buy Greek, you know, if you came there and you were cheering for Greece and you wanted to buy, you know, Greek paraphernalia, you couldn't get it. No, no, they were not available. Yes, although the Janus, a tenter. Kumpo, Greek jersey, is available in parts of the world, and it is beautiful and spectacular, and it's a great product, the Greek national team's jersey.

And obviously, you're not necessarily going to be able to get all countries, but they're like, we're going to have merchandise. You're going to have merchandise overflowing. People from all of the big countries would come to U.S. are going to be able to buy their own merchandise and stuff like that. Hospitality within the venues themselves. The venues in Paris were old. They very famously didn't.

want to build new venues. They didn't want to leave a scar. They didn't want to leave rotting venues like we've seen in places. As in Athenian, I totally agree with them. Because I'm not sure how the Athens games aged. Yes, not well enough. Right. But Los Angeles has top venues. They have supreme venues, especially for basketball. I mean, they have multiple high-level basketball venues. So the venues will be better and newer. And, you know, they're talking about the hospitality at the venues. You'll get the, you know, you know, sushi and sliders and whatnot. So they said, that's just all going to be different.

I said, okay, well, what does Paris do much better than you? They're like the logistics. This city is working beautifully. Our logistics are a major challenge. So more beer, more gear, more, you know, fine food, a lot less, a lot more traffic headaches in Los Angeles. But this is... It's a different mentality, you know.

Exactly. When you go to the arena and Europe, you don't go... to entertain yourself. We are getting ready for a battle. So this is a very different mentality. And in Europe, in general sports, football mainly, Sokker, sorry, I forgot that I'm speaking to the US audience. Soccer is considered, let's say,

some said it's the opera of the people. So the tickets had to be cheap, the stadiums had to be big in order to accommodate as much people with cheap tickets as sports. possible. Nobody really cared about concessions. Nobody went to the arena to eat. They just went there to kill the opponent. That's the mentality. Yes. So the NBA is trying to change that. Yes. And also Eurole. You know, right now there's a big debate for the pre-season tournament of Panathnaikos, the Pavlovakopoulos tournament, named after the late owner of Panathnaikos. Because for the first time, the prices in the refurbistocca are of are consented very, very high compared to what was done 10, 20 years ago. But in my opinion, this is a change that is inevitable.

And also right now at Oka, you can get sushi. You know, you can get this kind of concessions. The whole venue is changing the whole mentality of how you approach sports. So for Europe this is a new era. Yeah, it's not just buying a high-end beer. It's also club seats, sweets. Skyboxes. Yes, clubs that you would go to before and after the game.

This is not a part of most European basketball venues. It is a part of European football, soccer venues. Mainly in the UK. True, maybe in the UK. That's right. And so, you know, they're looking to bring it into the new era. As we sit here in early September, one year from now, what do you predict will happen? Will there be NBA Europe?

Will it be with the EuroLeague? Or will there be this separate thing and a scrap for survival? We're covering this story, and I include you in this, for the past, let's say, two years. there have been many twist and tears it's very hard to predict anything I'm a little bit pessimistic I don't see how we will not avoid

having two leagues competing each other at least for a couple of seasons I hope I'm wrong but I have to add that this pessimism right now is shared among many European basketball stakeholders

right now they don't believe that the offer that will come from the NBA, and I'm not speaking about buying out the EuroLeague or taking over European basketball, any kind of offer will be satisfactory for clubs like Barcelona, like Real Madrid, you know, and ultimately we can debate about logistical details and about money, but the elephant in the room

that nobody has addressed yet and I'm not talking about this podcast I'm talking in general is ultimately who will have control I can easily imagine the NBA given a conception in the control of any league that they are involved

and I can really imagine clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona saying that okay you have the know-how so you can tell us what we must do right I would just say in general the conversations I've had across the globe in the last 18 months

most people from Europe do not think it will work and the American rich guys think that it will. I don't disagree. There's been a lot of those types of ventures between the continents over the generations and some of it has worked and some of it has it. And so I will sit here and tell you and say, I don't know. I don't know whether it's going to work.

I do know this. If they truly are getting these bids that they say they do, like they say they have 12 bids at this kind of money, that kind of money is so big that it's one of the things that we would say is too big to fail, that the investment is so big and they will do everything they can to protect their investment, that even if the product is not good and the stands are not full and the sliders and the wine are not sold, that it will go on until it's until it succeeds or, you know, into the long end of the future. So, but I can say with an open mind, I really don't know what's going to happen.

I'm interested to watch and find out. And you've covered this a lot. It's your, it's your bread and butter. Like what happens to the European basketball is how you are going to affect your daily life. For me, I'm able to just sort of watch from afar and have casual conversations. Look, I have to be cynical here and say that this kind of debate brings extra value. to our job. And it's up to us to take this opportunity and not take advantage of the opportunity, but use it in order to, let's say, help not only the sport, but the whole idea of this

transatlantic collaboration and do something fruitful that will help basketball take the right full spot that they need to have in the European sport because let's face it, the average US fan can really understand the difference in European, in the European level interest between soccer and basketball. It's not like the NFL and the NBA. For most countries, basketball is, even if it's clearly the second sport, it's an afterthought. I'm lucky enough to be in Greece, which is one of the bastions of European basketball,

but this is not the case in many other countries. All right, well, thank you for your time and expertise. I really appreciate it, and we'll continue to try to make our listeners and viewers a little bit more well-rounded. We strive to be basketball men of the world. We don't always succeed, but we strive to do it. I hope to see you in Athens this season. I would love it.

December 11th, we have some other things. on the podcast we've got to execute before but I know the date December 11th I'm sure they'll meet several times You are correct. Yes, but I know the first one. I know that one is on, that's a fixture on the schedule. So we'll see, that's about when I made it to

Belgrade last year, so we'll see if I can pull it off. Okay. I'd love to. And I will owe you a pregame apparel spritz or something like that. Okay, close enough. All right.

Thank you. It's great to talk to you. We'll see you soon. Thank you for the invitation and all the best also for you and for the podcast. All right. Thanks to Ari's for giving us his insight and viewpoint. Hopefully you rode this all the way with us to the end. I know this was a different podcast than we usually have, but it's September and this is happening now.

And so that's what's going on. there will be, I think, some stuff that comes out of the Board of Governors meetings next week that involves expansion. Obviously, it will be Adam Silver's opportunities to talk about, really put his thoughts on the record about the Clippers situation, which is not totally resolved yet because the Clippers haven't accepted the situation. so there will be some things out of that, but European basketball will be a topic of conversation as well. So I appreciate you letting us be basketball men and women of the world on this episode. And thank you so much to all of our producers, Mark, Jackson, Tucker, Miles. Thank you for McMahon being busy in L.A. today.

Too busy for us. Thank you for watching, listening to The Hoop Collection. We hope you have a great weekend. We'll talk to you next week.