Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - Will Bucks’ Shocking Moves Keep Giannis? + JJJ’s Injury & Knicks’ FA Reaction

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the shocking news of the Bucks waiving Dame Lillard to sign Myles Turner from the Pacers. The guys talk what this means for the future of Milwaukee including if it could help keep Giannis before talking how painful this move is for Indiana. Then, the crew discusses another sad injury for Memphis to Jaren Jackson Jr. after his huge new contract, some nice bench depth signings for the Knicks, SGA’s historic new deal with OKC and more.   Vegas Summer League Live Show Link: hoopcollectivelive.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday evening, July 1st, started the new league year.

Joining us from New York City, the headquarters of the NBA. It's Tim Bontemps. Hello, Brian. Join us from Dallas, Texas, not the capital of Texas, Bay and McMahon. Howdy, partner's not the capital, but I'd say it's a top two city behind the capital. Oh, you've ranked Austin number one in Dallas number two or Dallas number one in Austin number two. I said behind the capital. Austin is the capital. I think Dallas is the second best city behind Austin and the state of Texas. Austin is an excellent city, especially excellent in the

spring and fall, not so much in the summer. By the way, San Antonio is underrated, and somebody's going to listen to me on that front at some point. But San Antonio has attractions like a seven foot, whatever he is now, eight Frenchmen, but did you see his goal that he had in, in Japan. I've not watched the soccer highlights. No. Montemps, did you see that? I did because we did it on television today.

Many hours ago. Now, you never know what these things. Like LeBron used to like take 60 full court shots and then he would make one of them. And then it would be on the news and people would be like, oh my God. I can't make a full court shot. I'm just saying like for all I know, Victor tried this for a half hour. But the one that made the rounds, he was probably 30 or 40 yards away. He bent it in, like, back him into the corner.

It was, like, absolutely. You'll be very happy, you know, McBand that I told the national audience watching Get Up that I informed them that Brian had discovered Victor. And therefore, he knew all about Victor's soccer game. You slipped that in there. I really appreciated that. I was quite pleased with myself for that. I make sure the people know the truth, the truth about your discovery. Well, I tell you what, wait until Wendy sees Wemby's first hole in one.

Then it really love him. All right. While Bon Temps and I were on first take on Tuesday, Bon Temps announces, we got breaking news. And I was like, what? Because, you know, I didn't, I was hoped it was real breaking news. And he wasn't like Simone Feintecchio got traded to the heat, you know.

Bon Tim's is an excitable sort. So I understand your skepticism. It was breaking news. This one, this one was a lot of, I would not have interrupted Chey Cornett to say Simone Fontechio had anything happen with him. But this was worth it, I think. Yeah. So he says the Milwaukee Bucks are signing Miles Turner to a four-year $107 million contract.

And that was like, whoa. And that wasn't even the biggest whoa. And, you know, Bontemps and David Dennis Jr. are there, and they're kind of analyzing this. And I was kind of like, hold up how they do that. How they do that? Even when I first started looking on social media, people were like, oh, what a great signing. What a coup. I'm like, okay, that's all fine. Cool. How'd they do it?

That's a lot of money that they didn't have to offer. We did. Brian and I did spend five minutes on live television guessing as to how they did it. Yeah. And so Bon Temps is like, we never would have guessed what they did. Right. So Bon Temps is like, and look, like, you know, I don't want to, you know, give too much credit to Bon Temps way. But he's pretty quick on his feet. He's pretty good analyzing the NBA. You know, he's like, well, maybe they traded Kyle Kuzma. And I was like, okay, that still doesn't seem possible. So we go to- Why because somebody who would want Coosma?

Well, the Pacers aren't taking Coosma for- I didn't think it was either, but that was right around the salary number that he was starting at. And so I was like, well, maybe that was it. Maybe. Nope, wasn't that either. I was thinking maybe they got him to go to Brooklyn, but they have no first-round picks.

Like, I don't know. And so then Shams reported it that they were waving and stretching. Damien Lillard. And I like, I like, I like gasped. I couldn't believe it. He's only owed $112 million. Only $22.5 million on the books, as Jackson correctly points out, as my family of Mets fans

knows, it is Bobby Boneya Day here in New York. And it is now also Damian Lillard Day, as he is going to get $22 million over the next, each of the next five years on the cap sheet of Milwaukee Bucks. I just remember the, the Laker fans, like Lerner, lamenting the Luwold Dang wave and stretch for five years. It was like maybe $5 or $6 million or something like that. Maybe it wasn't that much, but it was, you know, it sat on their cab for a while and there was like a celebration,

freedom from the All Dang Day. And I remember Nicholas Batum, you got a $27 million buyout. And the Charlotte fans like had like a celebration after three years when they got out of that deal. By the way, the wave and stretch thing goes, however many years you have left on your deal, you get, you double that plus one. So, Dame has two years left. Actually, next year was a player option, which he'll be picking up. It's now guaranteed. It is guaranteed. He gets to pick up his player option and doesn't even have to be there. Right. And then, so that's five years. And that's where, you know, you get the number. And so

now I'm thinking, like, what the Bucks fans are going to be saying in like 2029. 2030 when well this is the thing because you know look obviously we'll get into a lot of this deal but like that's the thing about when you when you stretch somebody like this and you do the wave and stretch like you can always trade a contract no matter how bad a contract is or matter how underwater it is it always gets to a point where it's an expiring deal or it's at a point where you could turn it into something we talked about the like a porter junior deal yesterday like look I didn't debate the merits of whether it was a good trade or not, but like that, they ended up turning that deal into something else, right, eventually. Like every deal, Gilbert-Renerson or Richard Lewis back in the

day got traded for each other, I believe. I mean, I guess Bradley Beale's been traded with his no trade clause once. Now Phoenix has had a hard time. Well, I mean, he has, that was because they let him keep the no trade clause as part of the trade. That's a whole other thing. But the point is, generally, waving and stretching is always bad because it gives you no outs going forward. And now, like, the bucks are going to have $22.5 million locked onto their cap sheet through the rest of the decade.

A quality starter. That's a quality starter salary slot that they are. McHale Bridges. They have McHale Bridges locked onto their cap sheet and no player for the next five years. And by the way, he will be on their budget. books right through the time they pay off the draft picks and swaps owed to get them in the first place.

And I love the Damien Little Deal when it happened. It obviously didn't work out. It didn't produce a single playoff series win for a variety of reasons. But whoa, is this a bold, and I love the Miles Turner, Janus Fit. Miles Turner is basically a younger, a little bit more dynamic version of Brooke Lopez. I love the fit, but my God, I mean, they're not a better roster than they were last year. Even if you consider Turner and Upgrade, you're not a better roster than you were last year. Last year, you weren't close to good enough. Right. They replaced Brooke Lopez with a younger and mildly better. It doesn't move the needle. Right. Because you know what they haven't done? They haven't replaced Damian Liller. The $54 billion salary that they're paying anyway. Right. They were the number five seed last year with Brooke Lopez and Dame Lillard.

I know that there was some injury time that Lillard missed, obviously. But so they've replaced Brooke Lopez. And, you know, let's pencil Miles Turner in. I'll give him a 10% premium on all of his stats. 20. Say 20. Just say he's 20% better. Forget the stats. Just 20% better. Significant upgrade. Sure. Kevin Porter Jr., as we speak, is there starting, Point guard. And I get, you can say, well, whatever, Yonis is going to have the ball and saying, still, Kevin Porter Jr. is in your starting lineup. And then, like, I don't, like, I guess you could try to do something to upgrade that. But do you think Chris Paul is going to Milwaukee?

No. All right. Maybe Malcolm Brogden going back to Milwaukee, but like, my God. Again, me, not really needle moving. All right. So I had somebody explain a version of the strategy to me. I'm not endorsing this. I'm just going to tell you what I was explained.

Somebody explained how the bucks could justify this. All right. So, Dame is on the books 22 and a half. Let's call it 23. Miles Turner's deal averages $27 million a year. So basically, for the next four years, it's $50 million for the two of them. Okay. So this year, Dame was on the cap for a little over $50 million.

And that was a, you know, a blank spot on the cap. Maybe he comes back. Let's just assume that he doesn't. Maybe he does. But it's $50 million you weren't going to get production out of. So now they've reduced the dame number to 23 for this year. And they bring in Miles Turner. And it's, again, about $50 million.

And so now you have a productive player in that $50 million spot. And secondly, you reduce yourself below the luxury tax. And so you are, in theory, not paying tax. and you get access to the distribution, which I don't know. Let's say it's 10 million. We don't know what it's going to be. Sure.

They're already maybe not going to pay the tax, but sure. What's what I'm saying? Well, whatever. Okay. So whatever. That's sort of the rationale. And who knows what Dave would have been next year? So you're getting a player for two years.

I mean, probably not playing next year. Well, I mean in 2026, 27, the last year of his contract. So the hit in the first two years is quote unquote mitigated because you got three more years. I mean, listen, that's all well. That's all well and good. That is an explanation that you give when, you know, I mean, I was talking to executive day who I thought summed this up very well. What I said, this is something that you do when you're sitting in a room in July trying to dig yourself out of a hole and you talk yourself into this and you tell yourself it's a good idea. And then a couple of years from now you're going to look around and go, what did you.

we do. And who knows if people in charge now will be in charge in a couple of years and then it might not matter. But like this is a, I mean, you know, you use a variation of this line today on TV, Brian, but this is the equivalent of having a mortgage on your house. And then subsequently taking out three separate mortgages on it all at the same time and having a second, third and fourth mortgage on your house and just like quadrupling down on whatever it is you're doing. And I said to buy a sports car. I also later said that it was like, you know, you've heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul. This is taking out Peter's 401k and then taking it from Peter and then paying Paul. That's kind of what it's like because the bucks, they've already given away their draft picks for the next five years.

So they can't trade those. They've already, they've already capped themselves out. And what I mean by capped out, they don't have cap space this year or next year because of dame. So they can't go to that. So now they've tapped their cap space in 2030. And again, they haven't paid off the dame trade yet in the picks. No. Which those picks are just keep getting more and more valuable. McMahon, they haven't paid off the Drew Holiday trade in picks. Fair point.

Yeah. I mean, and the thing that's hard to square on this. And look, maybe Brooke Lopez didn't want to be back there. But like, look, bucks fans today. I wrote a story with Jamal Collier about this. and Bucks fans have been who I mentioned saying, you haven't watched Brooke Lopez play. He can't move anymore.

Like, Brooke Lopez, Brooke Lopez is not as good as he was three years ago. He's still fine. You weren't winning the championship this year with Damien Lillard on the books for $54 million anyway and dead salary. I don't see unless you knew that Yon San Jaco was leaving if you did, if you did not do this new,

which if you did, okay, I get it. You got to keep Yianne de Kupo. I understand that. I'm not saying you shouldn't. But the better path for the Bucks to try to build a championship team again around Janus, if that's even possible, which I don't think it is with the situation they're in, would be to sign Brooke back for one year for beat the, beat the offer the Clippers gave them this year. Get through this season.

They re-signed everybody else already. Like, you could have Yonis be point center. You could muddle through the year. You could maybe be a top six team in the east. And then I think the Bucks would have two or three draft picks next year. They'd have a $58 million Damian Lode expiring contract. They would have some flexibility to go out and make moves to try to reposition the team around Janus. Now what they've done is say, okay, our core going forward is Janus and Miles Turner.

And that's it. And Kuzma, who like doesn't score in the playoffs. Sure. And Bobby Portis, who's a fine backup forward. Well, what about this? What about this? If you really wanted to do this, why didn't you do it four days ago? You did four days ago and you announced to the NBA that you've got cap space. They moved off the last two draft picks that they had control over. They also traded today, by the way. They traded them to Charlotte to get off. I believe they also have one first they can trade. You're right. I apologize. There's the last two seconds. But they traded two seconds to get to get facility Nietzschech to move money around. Right, but let's say you could move Conantin off. Maybe you get enough cap space that you can like go to a player who's a free agent and then sign them. Maybe that's, you know, there's a method to my madness.

It's a different player than Miles Turner. Maybe you, and I'm not saying you could have got Julius Randall, but let's just say for theoretically, you could go get Julius Randall. And then I mean, I think for the bucks, I'd probably rather Miles Turner anyway, though. Again, I like the bit of Miles Turner. Okay, go on. Let's say you spend it on some other player. Then you have your $9 million room exception. Then you go try to get Brooke.

And then you get Brooke back. Yeah. Now you've got, you're more putting a team together. Part of what this felt like today was, oh my God, like, you know, it's June 30th at, you know, 6 p.m. Got to do something. Gotta do something. I will say this. You know, having been with the calves in 2010, this wasn't a, this wasn't an option in 2010.

The calves were capped out. You know, they had all those free agents. to 2010. This is something that the Cavs would have done in 2010. It's, you know,

they were desperate. Yeah, if you look at the back half of the 2000s with the Cavs, right? I mean, it wasn't exactly this move, but it was a series

of moves like this. They would have done this with like, going to trade for Anton Jameson and all those guys. They would have done this with like Antoine Jameson and like Anderson Verrajao sure to try to sign

Amari Stademeyer. Yeah. You know, you know, let me ask you this. Is this whole scenario even possible if Minnesota,

Minnesota doesn't give Nas Reid $25 million a year. How much did Nas Reid's contract muddy things for Miles Turner in the pace? Oh, I think it absolutely did. I don't think there's any question. I mean, Miles Turner getting overpaid, reset the center market. Nass Reade did. Not Nas Reid. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, right. Nas Reid getting overpaid, reset the center market. So, Nas Reid got 25 a year. Yacob Pertil signed the contract extension today with the Raptors for 26 million a year, I believe. And by the way, if Miles Turner hadn't gotten signed before this Yakopurto extension, that also would have reset to market, I think, for Miles Turner,

because he's better than Yacopold also. So that would have been a delayed reaction. But when Miles, when Nas Reid got signed the other day, if you're, if you're Miles Turner and you're sitting at home and you're saying, hmm, I was just the starting center on a team that went to game seven of the NBA finals. And I've been, in my mind, underpaid at different points. as my time with the Pacers. They tried to sign DeAndre Aiton to an offer sheet a few years ago.

They had all these issues over the years. Like, yeah, you know what? I'm the longest tenured Pacer. They were everybody who was celebrating me when I was cheering when I finally got back to the NBA finals for the first time. It's time for me to get paid, right? They've said, you know, they've made all these noises about how they're going to go into the luxury tax this year.

Don't have to go that far in to give me a fair number. Like, yeah, I, you know, Chris Dasporzingis signed for 30 a year. I should get in the high 20s. Like, yeah, that's all reasonable. Hard to argue with any of that. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. Okay, we're talking about Janus in a minute, but we wanted to talk about Indiana here.

I know that Indiana was planning on paying Miles Turner, and I know that Indiana was trying to mitigate its luxury tax situation. And the reason I know this is because they took the action of trading their first round pick last week. They pushed it. They got their 2026 first back from New Orleans, gave their 2025 first to them. That was done so they didn't have to pay the few million dollars that you'd pay your first round pick in the 20s. And by the way, when they did that, I don't think they had any idea of what a good trade it would end up being.

Well, that's true. It wasn't last week. It was like two weeks ago. It was during the finals. It was during the finals before game seven. Yeah. Yes. Also, I don't blame them for not foreseeing that they were going to have.

be getting bid on, bid against by the bucks here. No, yeah. So from what I understand, they offered, I don't know where they started, but their offer was for three years and was in the low 20s per year. Nas Reid's contract comes up. You're already in trouble. Look, the Pacers haven't paid the luxury tax in 20 years. Tyrese Halliburton is hurt.

The problem is that this sends just a real tough message. to your team and your fans that you reach the finals. Yeah. And look, you could trade another player, you know. And there are very few players like Miles Turner. Not that Miles Turner is a superstar, but he's a rim protecting center who could shoot threes. That is a very rare commodity.

And he's a perfect fit next to Pascal Seacroch. And Halliburton was the longest-tinered Pacer who went through a lot. But even setting that aside, if you're just looking at the third. bit. You can't, it's just, there's not, there's not a replacement for Pascal Seacum readily available on the market to go get. And it's not even so much of that. You can't replace them anyway. Like, even if there was a replacement that you could sign for 17 million, you don't have 17 million. Right. Right. You're not going to have 17 million because you have Seacum and Paliburton under contract for $90 million a year. And look, Bontovs, you know,

may think that Nasreed got overpaid, and I'm not going to debate you on that. But the offer that the Bucks gave Miles Turner was an appropriate number. If they offered them 30- Yeah, I mean, I think the Pacer should have probably just offered Miles Turner five for 125 from the beginning and started his number this year low. I think if they'd come in from the beginning and said, hey, Miles, guess what? We appreciate you. We respect the time you've had here. We're a little nervous about going high on the number, but you know what? Let's do five years. Let's do five for $125. Maybe the out years will be a little dicey, but that's a fair number. I think Miles Turner and Austin Brown, his agent at CIA, I bet they would have signed that immediately. I bet they wouldn't

even have thought about it. You might even be able to go a little lower. Maybe it did, maybe they did five for $1.15. They might have got it done. It's $115 million guaranteed, but it wasn't that. It was it was three years at a lower number. And, Let's be honest. The Pacers looked around, saw nobody with Cap Room to really challenge them for Miles Turner, and they thought they could play hardball and get a deal. That's obviously what happened. And, you know, when you, I'm not going to, we're a Disney company, so I'm not going to quite say it this ray. But when you mess around in situations like this, you can find out what happens. And they found out what happened in the worst way possible, where they have egg all over their faces after this franchise, after years of, frankly, a pretty. indifferent fan base and, you know, having okay teams and not really making any kind of a mark, had had this unbelievable two-year run, all this energy behind the team. I mean, we were at these

games, like the crowds in Indiana were unbelievable, fantastic energy. Team was fun to watch. Miles Turner was a huge part of all that. And now it's all gone. Talk about a fun team to root for. Talk about a fun team to root for. Man, great team to root for. And then two of the most deflating things imaginable have happened. Obviously, Tyrese Halliburton, Taryn is Achilles, probably misses all the next season. Hopefully he can get back to being what he was, but just a devastating injury. And then you lose Miles Turner, you know, your defense of anchor, you know, a great complimentary piece, the guy who's been there for a decade. And you lose them over being cheap. You lose them over being cheap. That's it. There's no other way to put it. It's not,

This isn't about the aprons. This isn't about the new rules. It's about being cheap. That offer that they had in the 20s would have put them into the tax. For now. And then they got out of the tax. I mean, into the tax, sure, but not like just they're not soaring past aprons and stuff. It would have put them in the tax for now.

And it would have gotten out because they could have easily gotten out. Well, and, dude, they just had a finals run. Trust me, they made money this year. They made lots of money. And again, it's just the most depleting thing. And they played a lot of home games. They played a lot. It's just the most afflating thing to have a team like this, have a run like this, like you said.

And yeah, the Haliburton injury obviously is brutal. But then to have this as the follow up on it where you lose this guy, again, like this is not the Celtics having to trade away players. This is not the wolves not resigning to Key Alexander Walker or the calves not resigned in Ty Jerome. Those are financial decisions that you can. might be disappointed as a fan, but you can at least understand the structure of the team and, all right, you have to lose somebody. This is a core critical player from the team not being resigned because the Pacers were being cheap and trying to play hardball with the guy, and it blew up in their faces. And now they have no way to come back from it this year. Like, we'll see who they,

maybe they could sign DeAndre Aiton or some other person, but they're not Miles Turner. There isn't a Miles Turner replacement on the market. And I mean, they did give DeAndre Aton the contract. actually just got bought out of. Right. So have to have to play for him. So maybe he winds up there. But it just, it's just a bummer all the way around.

Honestly, though, I feel like they'd almost, I think there's an argument that the Pacers would be better off. Just, you know, with Tony Bradley and, what's his name, Isaiah Jackson,

and those guys going out there. James Wiseman. Whatever. Like, with those guys going out there, Halberton is not playing next season. You know, maybe they slip in the lottery. Maybe they get lucky, whatever.

Getting a lottery pick to add to the mix before Halliburton comes back. I feel like that's better than doing some stopgap. Well, this is the best we got after the first two days of free agency have passed. I mean, what do they get? Are the patients making a playoff front? next year? No. I mean, I think they got a good chance to make the playoffs. Yeah.

I'm not saying they're going to the conference finals again, but I don't think they're going to be, I don't think they're, I don't think they're going to be in the lottery. Maybe they'll be in the very back half of the lottery. I mean, look, if you look at the bottom of the east, they don't have their bottom of the east, they don't have the bottom of the west, bro. They got Andrew Demhart. They got Pascal Seaccombe. They got Aaron Neath Smith. Like, they got, they still got a pretty decent roster.

and you've got Brooklyn, Charlotte, Washington, Chicago. There are several. We'll see if Philly's healthy, maybe they'll be okay. But there's four or five teams that are going to be wretched in the east. They lost their most important player and what, their third, maybe fourth most important player? Well, first off, Andy doesn't tank. They tanked one time for like half a year. So that's, they're not going to do that.

They're just, they're not bad enough to take. even if they wanted to tank in the East this year, they're not bad enough to. There's four or five teams that are built to be horrendous. Indy doesn't tank. Carlisle can tank. I've seen him do it. Well, like, it's just a real bummer. Well, I know that it's a little bit polarizing because, you know,

you know, Miles Turner, there's sort of a love-hate relationship there with him. Well, he's not an all-star. He's not an all-star, but he's a good player, and his skill set is just incredibly hard to find in me. Exactly. So I'm not, you know, and I heard some people say today, well, you know, $27 million, they would regret that. I'm not here for that. Miles Turner is a not replaceable player for right now.

Well, he's in his prime, and he does two of the most important things that you can do. And it's kind of a new big man archetype, the rim protector, a guy who shuts down the paint and spaces the floor on the other end. He opens the paint on offense and shuts it down on defense. That's extremely valuable. And it's why you get why the Bucks identified him as a guy who made a lot of sense with Janus, and he does make a lot of sense with Janus. It's just the rest of the roster in Milwaukee.

That's the problem. He fits well. And speaking of Janus, I know that there was this one of risk rush. Like, you know, what did Janus think about this? Like, this is great. And even we on, you know, first take, we were like, you know, this might be the type of thing that, you know, convinces Janus stay. Because I do think Janus is looking for a reason to stay in Milwaukee.

you know and while he hasn't articulated that well actions over words the actions for years if any does he hasn't wanted to leave Milwaukee right and he let the draft go by without making a peep and he's let free agency go by without making a peep so yeah he's clearly not looking for reasons to leave because we could present a few for him if you wanted right all right so but however you know I think the message here is in still I don't think 100% like lockdown, take Janus off the board. I think the message is everyone is still waiting and seeing. And I think the Bucks are in that boat too.

I've got this pair. They're actually like Bucks green, this pair of underwear. Unbelievably comfortable underwear. And it really is. It's like it reminds me of what the Bucks franchise probably feels like for Yonis because the support phenomenal. my god comfortable don't don't bring this up on tv tomorrow please good very comfortable very comfortable but man they got holes in them and like they you know they ain't what like they're just really just

just stopped you know like they're falling apart but i can't i just can't i can't take myself to chunk them they're too nice they're too too too comfortable too too much support that's the buck's organization to yonis right now they are that pair of underwear That just feels so good, and you can't throw them out no matter how many holes there are in them. Please, please. All right. Thank you. Please stop.

Bontimps. That was not a trip anybody needed to take. So one more thing to put a bow on this Buck Spacer's situation. Dame Lillard, you know, he's going to be rehabbing for most of this season. He gets waived. And while there seems, that's obviously melancholy, this is a dream situation. It's free money and freedom. Oh, yes.

I'm sure he felt a certain way as he had his life change really quickly. And it really stinks that his swan song with the Bucks is going to be being helped off the floor in the middle of a playoff series. But I don't know if he'll play this year, but if he's able to,

he'll have a bunch of teams interested. He'll be able to choose his team. You can sign for the minimum. He can sign for more. It's double dipping the number. or whatever it is. And he can rehab at home in Portland during the season. And, you know, there's a lot of people suffering out there.

He ain't one of them other than, you know, coming back from the injury. So I don't think there's, I think the big winner today might be Dame Millard. Yeah, I would agree more heartedly. And obviously, listen, it's a sucky situation that he has to rehab from a torn Achilles. But as far as getting his walking papers from Milwaukee. he never wanted to be in Milwaukee. And he was a pro, and he tried to make the best of it.

But it, like, and they weren't, it's not like, the bucks weren't bad with him, but it goes down as one of the all-time disappointments. To make that kind of trade, and then not even get a playoff series one of it. It's an all-time disappointment.

But again, he didn't want to be there. He had to, you know, like actively tried him to make sure he wasn't miserable. And now, hey, if he still wants to get to Miami, that's probably going to be on the table. If he wants to, you know, go back to the Bay Area, his hometown, you know, there might be an opportunity there. Damon Willard potentially at a minimum, there will be a whole lot of

teams lined up interested in chitch out about that. Yeah, I mean, the Dame trade was flawed for the beginning because of the Russia construction with the Bucks. And I think the Bucks just, I mean, obviously at the time, Janus made it clear he wanted Dane, and so they went and got him, and I don't think they really appreciated what they'd be losing and trade and drew holiday until after they did. And so knock on Dane, he's a fantastic player. The fit with those guys was awkward for the beginning. Defense was never good enough, and it just didn't work.

And the Bucks, I'm sure, would immediately come back to me and say, well, if Yonis had been healthy last year in the playoffs, things might have been different. Obviously, this year, Dame got hurt in game three. Things could have been different, but they weren't. It's the way it goes. They weren't good enough all year. And yeah, look, I think Dame is 100% the big winner today. Obviously, it sucks that he got hurt.

He's one of the most fun players to watch in the last decade. And you know, you don't want to see any. You've seen three major players have this devastating injury, obviously. But he's, you know, I think there's a pretty good chance he's going to take this year off and not play. Spend time at home, completely get himself healthy and ready to go. And to your point, McMahon, next summer he comes back. and he's getting paid. I don't think he's going to be out there seeking money.

And so he's going to get his pick of where he wants to go. My guess is he'll probably want to be somewhere closer to home if he had a choice. But you could have all sorts of fun with this. What if Dame decides he's going to go back truly home and be Steph's backup? That would be pretty awesome. What if he decides to go, you know, James Hardin's got a player option. What if James Hardin decides to do something and he goes and plays with him? with Kauai with the Clippers.

That'd be fun. You know, like he could go to Miami if he wanted. That'd be fun. He could go like wherever. I mean, he could go anywhere that he wants on a minimum. You know, what if he goes to Dallas? What if Kyrie leaves and he goes to Dallas and plays with those guys? That'd be fun.

And what if Dame is starting to feel pretty good late February and says, you know what? I think I can come back for the playoffs. Signs with somebody. Maybe it's like a one plus one type of deal. Hey, maybe I can come back and get back and form to be a score off the bench for you come playoff time. So I mean before that cutoff. And it's, I mean, it's worth it. It's a little pretty low stakes roll the dice for the team.

You know, there's a lot of different possibilities here. But the certainty is that Dame Liller gets to call his shot on his next destination. Which he's never done before. he's never been a free agent. So I'm sure there'll be something that we talk about later. Hopefully it's something that is in play for this season that he recovers well. I'm sure there'll be a lot of teams monitoring it. More Hoop Collective Podcast after this.

Today, I got one of those emails, guys, said Memphis Grizzlies Medical Update. Okay. It came out during the free agency special. Our guy with Brian was on TV. And I just, I literally had to read, I had to read it three times. I was like, wait a minute. Really? We're talking about this now?

Really? It's like, come on, guys. Yeah, this was a dozy of one too. I would say so. While participating in a live basketball run offsite, Jaron Jackson Jr. Sustust sustained a turf toe injury in his right foot, which upon expert evaluation yesterday was determined to require a procedure to repair.

So he's going to have to have surgery on his turf toe. Jeff Stotz from In Street Close, his database says it's about a three-month injury. You know, this is the third guy this off-season to have this surgery. Darius Garland had it. I'm trying to think somebody else had it. Well, in three months from now is right at the start of camp. Well, and Darius Garland had it. I'm not saying every injury is the same, but Darius Garland had it.

The cat has said four to five months. Well, A.J. Mitchell, the Thunder rookie had it, and he was back in three months. I mean, so either way, it's just not ideal to, on Monday, agree to give Jaron Jackson $200 and some million. And on Tuesday announced that Jared Jackson is having to have turf toe surgery. It is not ideal. And the Memphis Grizzlies Medical Update just continues. to be a scourge of the league, unfortunately.

That's wild. And they got to, they got to, they got to do like a sage cleanse or something at the, uh, the forum down there. Try to, you got to get verto on the case to get something,

get something done to change the, change the luck. Yeah, the grizzlies have lived through, uh, something like this before too with, uh, Desmond Bain had that toe injury.

Yeah, that's right. Um, a couple years ago, I just checked. He missed two months, but that messed up for that whole season, basically. Yeah, he wasn't, he wasn't, and he had to come back and had to, he had to play with like a, remember he had to wear the LeBron's.

Yeah, that's right. I did a whole story about him having to wear the LeBron's against the Lakers. In the playoffs, right? Yes. That was the that was, uh, was that the poke, was that the poke the bear series? Yes, it was. And Bain hated wearing those shoes and LeBron knew it and kind of jabbed them a little bit. But that was the shoe that they could fit like this, special customized metal plate in to give him support for his toe. So, I mean, you know, turf toe doesn't sound that menacing, but it's a beast of an injury. It's like the second apron. It needs a new, needs a new more, more menacing nickname. Terrible toe. Yeah. So, but I mean,

hopefully it happened really enough in the summer that he'll be able to rehab for most of the off-season. Unfortunately for Jaron, and this isn't the first time that he's dealt with an injury suffered during the summer. Remember he had that foot injury a few years back that wiped him out for the start of the next season. So, but man, I mean, the time is just like, my goodness, man. I wonder, I do wonder if they knew about it before. I mean, they kind of, it seems like the way they didn't, he didn't have the injury today by reading. Yeah. So my guess is it happened before. Yeah, they were very specific. bit. He's had

he's sunset expert analysis. It sounded to me like he came to sign the contract and got checked out. No, I'm not kidding. It sounded like he came to do the contract. You're like, oh my God, I'm going to have to I'm not.

Jerry, why are you limping? To be clear, I don't mean it like that. But I don't mean I don't mean to make fun of it. But can you imagine like here? It did seem like it was the way it was written. It seemed like he came back to Memphis and they checked them out. That was what they decided. Yeah.

But that's just supposition based off. breeding it. But yeah, like, just a, just a bummer injury. Jared, why are you Olympic? I mean, they've had an interesting, I mean, beyond the Jaron extension, they've had an interesting couple days between doing, um, getting tied Jerome done, getting Santi Aldama back. Um, it's been, you know, trading up to get such a coward last week. They've, they've had an interesting week. Uh, this is not the kind of interesting and wanted to add to it. No, um, the Knicks signed a two players.

to be on their bench in the last 24 hours. And I got to tell you, Bontems, I really like the signing. They used their entire taxpayer mid-level of $5.7 million on Gerson Yavicelli, who really impressed me in the Olympics with France last summer. That got him a small deal with the 76ers. He impressed the whole league. He is really quick on his feet for a guy that size. and can play multiple positions and has really developed his outside shot.

And this is a guy who will definitely get some minutes for whoever the next next head coach is. Mike Brown. No, Tibbs ain't there. They'll use their bench. Right. Mike Brown looks like he's lying it up, but I don't want to assume anything. And then Jordan Clarkson, they got, you know, cheap because he took a buy-off from the jazz. and those are two guys who a team that wasn't very deep last year

adding two rotation players that should give the next coach some options. Jordan Clarkson in that fashion scene in New York too. That's a good match. I like the upgrades for the bench. I like the, you know, I would say budget bench upgrades. Although, like, I don't know what Clarkson has. he's been in an impossible situation the last couple of years in Utah.

Last year they kept on telling him that I think they told him his toe hurt. He's like, no, it doesn't. They're like, no, trust me, it does. Is that expert evaluation like Terry Jackson? They might have had, you know, somebody like me who took eight years in college, but it's not a doctor. At close enough, you put him on the injury list. Tell us what he has.

You know what? One interesting thing, though, is, Jordan Clarkson clutch client going to the Knicks. That hadn't happened in a while. It's worth noting. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, they, yeah, it's interesting that they did that. I mean, it's interesting on a couple levels.

I mean, they're right up near the second apron. I'm not quite sure they can fit another two guys in under the second apron. I'll be curious to see how they do that. I'm sure they've got some maneuvering to do to do so. Jordan Clarkson, I would say, is probably not going to, got too much left in terms of being an impact player on a team that's trying to go deep in the playoffs. But I would also say he's an upgrade on Landry Shamet and campaign, which is really the bar that you're looking to clear here. And, you know, to your point, Brian, Gershanyabaselli had a really nice year last year, volume three-point shooter, can move his feet on defense.

Obviously, anybody who's seen him, and he's built like a brick wall. So despite the fact that he's not that tall, he can hold up inside. as a four. And playing him next to Mitchell Robinson, I think, in particular, is a really nice fit for the Knicks coming off the bench. And this is a team that, especially we saw at times in the playoffs that they got later in the playoffs, they would really struggle to get up threes. They don't have a lot of guys who take a ton of threes normally. These guys will both come in and shoot the ball pretty consistently from deep. I mean, Jordan Clarkson has always been a guy who's gotten, you know, four, five, six, seven, threes up a game. Yabaselli last year with the Sixers, and obviously he was

playing limited minutes, but he shot 38% from three, and he took four of them a game. So, you know, you had a couple guys like that, that shores up a real weakness for the Knicks, too. And to your point, wherever they do, hires the coach, like, these guys should be consistent bench weapons for them. Yeah. So the Knicks, I would say about the Knicks, they're on schedule. As is, where does that is to say, they anticipated having to rebuild their, depth after the trades that they made last year, last offseason. They're trying to do that now. And they knew that the Celtics would not maybe be able to hold their whole team together

when the second apron bit. Obviously, they weren't counting on Tatum's injury. But the Knicks are, this is the way they planned it when they made those trades last year. Whether it ends up turning out in the end like they want, that's got to be determined. Before we go, I think we should acknowledge that the largest average annual value, contract and NBA history was signed or at least committed to today with Shade Guildes Alexander committing to a deal, 285 million over five years, over four years. Four years? Yeah, four years. Four. He could have gotten five next year, but he went ahead and locked this in.

Right. He's, he did get a player option in the deal, which, you know, is something I'm sure that Thunder weren't thrilled about turning over, but they weren't in position to, uh, complain about it. However, he's under, he's guaranteed, you know, he's five years before the player arrives. And if things go well, he'll extend before then. And if things don't go well, he won't get to the end of it. So I'm not going to really dwell on that at all. Also, I'm going to wager on things going well for the Oklahoma City Thunder for a while here. Well, I would just say that for a team that lost a player on his third contract, the reason the Supermax exists is because, in large part, because of the player that they lost when he didn't sign

his third contract, which was Kevin Durant. It should not be just taken for granted that he signed it. And by the way, so he gets four years in 285. Luca is eligible for four years. And I think the revised number was, do you remember what it was? I think 218 or something like that. Yeah, it's right in that 220-ish. But that's the difference between him staying with Dallas and him getting trade to

Oklahoma City. 15 plus mill a year, 15, 16 million year, no biggie. Yeah, and that is why there's some level of stress from the Lakers, and there was no level of stress from the Thunder. Well, also, because the Lakers don't have a championship roster, and the Thunder clearly do because they just had a parade. You know, this was not a difficult decision for Shea to want to commit. I think there was some people wondering, Shea, who represents a.

himself now, would he leave a little bit of money on the table? The answer is no, please. I really enjoy being here, but I think I've earned the full boat after leading the league and scoring, winning MVP and finals MVP. I love the story. Western Congress finals MVP too. I love the story that Ramona told on her 30 for 30 podcasts about the Donald Sterling affair. The story was about the negotiation that Steve Ballmer had when he bought the Clippers. It was something like they literally, he was literally talking on the phone. Shelly Sterling. And he was like, maybe I don't have the numbers exactly right. So give me some grace here. But he was like, how about $1.7 billion? And she's like, I was hoping for two. And he was

like, okay, too. But seriously, it was like a three-minute negotiation. And he went up like $300 million in like one fell swoop. And, you know, that's kind of how I think this negotiation might have gone with Shea and Thunder. Hey, just so you know, there's a possibility that if you take a little bit less, I would like the whole thing. Okay, sounds good. We have the paperwork. Let's go.

I mean, if there's ever a player that's worthy of the Supermax is this guy who just had the clean sweep of all the trophies that you can win and is like the low, one of the lowest maintenance superstars in the league is the epitome of what you want as a culture setter. And oh, by the way, he's just now starting his prime. Not bad. Not bad at all. I would be remiss if I didn't say one week from this Saturday night at the Brad Garrett Comedy Club at MGM Grant.

That's July 12th, 6 p.m. The third annual Hoop Collective Live show, Bon Temps, McMan, special guests. We have one guest booked, right, McMahon? I mean, right, Bon Temps? We have one guest booked. What you do? One NBA guest. book, potentially more.

Hoop Collectivelive.com. We have a new link. Hoop Collectivelive.com. Did you register that domain name, Bond Temps, we have to pay your royalty? I had nothing to do with us. It's all producer Jackson's work. All right.

Jackson doing some work. Good for him. All right. Well, I've got one week to wiggle out of this. No, there's no wiggling. Let me tell you. Wendy, once those stage lights are on, boy, you're in your element, too.

Is that right? I mean, you were like, you know, you were like Jay Leno at the last one, man. You had a whole monologue. And I tell you what, there's nothing like live show Wendy. Yeah, that's right. People in my life thought it was funny that you nicknamed my walk the shuffle. The Wendy Shuffle? Yeah.

No, but it's not just your walk. It's your walk when you've got that, you know, the, is it the, those headphones do you wear AirPods? It's a specific kind of thing. It's the walk that you do when you're in information gathering mode also transporting yourself back to a different location. That's all I am in is information gathering mode these days, unfortunately. Also, best wishes to Red Panda. Oh, my gosh. I had an injury tonight at the Commissioner's Cup game.

Red Panda's awesome. Hopefully she's doing okay. Red Panda truly might be the only thing in the league. that everybody loves. That in our guys, Christian and Scooby. Yep. And me.

All right. Thank you to Jackson and Blair, our producers. Thank you for listening and watching to the Hoot Collective podcast. We'll talk to you. Hopefully not for a few days. Adios amigos.