Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective - With Key NBA Stars Injured - Who Can Stay Afloat?

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN's Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to discuss the many injuries to the stars across the NBA and what is causing the rise in players missing time. Then, the guys discuss if the Bucks can survive without Giannis including if the depth in the Eastern Conference could be more challenging than the Western Conference. Plus, with Wembanyama, Castle and Harper sidelined can the Spurs stay alive in the West? Finally, we talk if the vibes around the 76ers are improving and what you can expect from a big matchup between the Rockets & Cavs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon, Eastern Time. I'm out here on the West Coast.

It's still the morning. There's some interesting basketball that is happening tonight that you will know about, but we won't. So let's just keep that in mind. Guys, I don't know why I did that. Joining me from New York City is Tim Bontems. So Wendy's Sleep Update off the bat, folks. He's in fresh from Omaha morning flight. He's all discombobulated, had trouble getting set up today.

I actually am well-rested on this occasion. It's just, I just brain farted. Join us from Dallas, Texas. Bam McMahon. Howdy, partners, a good hair day for Wendy. Just had to get it fixed up. Took the cap off on Mike Bond Tims and got all fixed up fresh off the plane looking good. Yeah, this is what I look like, 6.45 a.m. flight straight from LAX.

This is, this is the experience that you're getting. No makeup today. If you are a little alarmed. But I'm in better shape than about half of the All-Stars from last season because with, you know, this rash of injuries we're having, you know, we just talked the other day about how the league is in such a good place. But the injury situation is just really kind of out of hand. And two more injuries early in the week. Janus goes down. We should have information later today.

He's having an MRI following a groin injury that he had. Cleveland on Monday night. Seems very unlikely. It's a short-term absence, though. Well, yeah, there's no such thing as a minor coin injury. And then we've got Victor Wenbanyama out, you know, at least two weeks before being re-evaluated with a calf injury, which we know how sensitive those are. Guys, I'm going to read you the All-Stars from last season, okay? It's going to go right down the list here.

And we can count how many have missed or are missing significant time. Jalen Brunson Ankle On the shelf Donovan Mitchell Has missed some games But thankfully Healthy playing very well

Had another very good game on Monday Jason Tatum Don't remind me Yonasatinecumpo groin On the shelf Carl Anthony Towns Fortunately

Katz still Contributing Although the Knicks What 8 and 1 at home Bontemps O and 4 on the road Yep. Not good in the in the standings.

Cade Cunningham, dealing with an injury right now. Piston's still winning. They've won the last two without him. Jalen Duren playing like an all-star, but, you know. They've got a two-way guy playing like an all-star. Dennis Jenkins. Yes.

Man, they've won the last three without him. We'll see if he plays tonight against the Hawks to try to go for 11 in a row. Last night, I should say. We'll know by now. We'll know by now. Keep counting. Darius Garland.

To. Missed the first seven games, re-injured his third game back. Tyler Hero, still hasn't played. Absence is further extended for Miami head off-season foot surgery. Dame Lillard. Another killer. Yeah, we're up at seven. We're still in the Eastern Conference.

Okay. Trey Young. I haven't forgotten what he hurt. What he heard again? He has sprained his knee. Out weeks, months, maybe. All right, Evan Mobley, thank goodness. Still healthy for the cast.

Pascal Seacum, trying like crazy to carry the Pacers who are in deep trouble. They're won in a whole lot. Actually, you know, Tyrese Halliburton is an All-Star level player. He did not make the All-Star team last year. It has been an All-Star team. But for this point, isn't on the All-Star team, but essentially could be included on this list. Doesn't count on my finger.

Jalen Brown. thankfully doing well making news for other reasons this year Shegilders Alexander scores 30 every night Yeah now you get to sit out a lot of fourth quarters Because they beat everybody badly but played every game Yeah I saw the stat yesterday I don't know who to give a credit to

Bronny James has played more fourth quarters this year than She has It's just an unbelievable stat Yeah. Steph Curry has been dealt with illness, but luckily no serious injury. LeBron, who is making his debut, is scheduled to make his debut tonight against the Jazz. I'm going to be at the game here in L.A. Kevin Durant, everything's going good with him. Yolkich, he's doing awesome.

Jalen Williams. We're up to 10. Has him played. On the horizon, his return, he's now missed 15 games. 17 is a key number there because of the Supermax eligibility. But he's, we'll be back very soon, I believe. But we're up to 10. I would say that Supermax thing is probably out the window unless he wins defensive

player or something. He's all in, dude, first of all, you name it all these guys. Oh, he can make all NBA. Well, he can't make all NBA. It's just 15 games. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Because he's going to not qualify because he doesn't play enough games, bro. Okay, so I'm saying if he comes back this week, he's still going to have a chance if he plays the rest of the season.

Yeah, I mean, yes, if he plays every game the rest of the season, which I would say is unlikely. Anthony Davis. We're up to 11. I'm out of fingers. I've got to start again. I won't put my toes up. Plus, I don't know how to put toes down. So we're on my third hand. And so much for being questionable, McMahon. I told you guys, what happened. Yeah, basically what happened is his people cleared him. The MAZ, his people who are on the MAZ payroll,

but the director of the MAZ medical group threw up the caution flag. Patrick DeMont weighed in and then eventually after a few questionables said, hey, you're not playing again until there is clear medical data saying there's no risk of aggravating this or, as we saw with Tyrese Halliburton, worse. And so now it's, they announced, well, I don't know if I've, days run together, they announced a couple days ago that it's seven to ten days before he'll be re-evaluated again. Anyways, we're up to 11.

Aunt Edwards, thankfully back, but dealt with a hamstring injury. James Hardin, his back and not back, he's playing through, but his team just can't win. I would say, Hardin is the one good thing going with the Clippers right now. If it wasn't for him, they might be, you know, won in. Yeah, I just saw him Monday night. I just saw Monday night in Philly. He played, you know, he didn't hit a lot of shots, seven for 25, but had him the only reason they were in the game and nearly had a chance to win a second straight game for him and fell just short.

It took a 40-point Hardin triple double for them to beat the Mavericks in a double O-T that night. That's the state of the Clippers, but he's healthy. Right. Okay. Jaron Jackson, Jr., off-season surgery, came back. The team is also struggling. John Moran, also not on, John Moran is out now with, that's a calf injury too, correct? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. He's out multiple weeks. At least a couple of weeks. He's not on the, he's not on this list because he didn't make the All-Star team last year, but, you know, an All-Star level player, he was out. Used to be. Well, that's true. Victor Wenbanyama. That was a bummer.

Just in case you thought you were done counting, McMahon, Kyrie Irving. Thirteen. And Alpish... Kyrie is making great progress in his recovery. I would say his return this season is very much in question for other reasons. And Alpies Schengun. Healthy as a horse and whooping. Absolutely.

But 13 to 24 is, and as you mentioned, multiple other. former all-stars. And it's a lot of calves, which, you know, I'm by no means a medical expert, no medical degree despite eight years in college. I'm sure there's a lot of smart people around the league and employed by teams that are studying. Why so many calf strains?

And then obviously the concerns that come along with those. Yeah, I mean, non-scientifically, I mean, you know, what I've, you know, I've had this conversation with people in the league and I will tell you what they speculate, can't prove it, don't have a white paper on it or whatever. Pace of play. Yeah. Pace of play is just super high. It's way higher than it was than it was 10, 15 years ago. And it's showing up. It's showing up in those injuries.

what they believe. I don't know. But, I mean, I know that when I first covered the league, a calf injury was reasonably rare. I mean, you'd see a handful in the NBA a year. Now it feels like you see a handful a week. Yeah. And you know, interestingly, one of Jaws Big Beasts with Thomas Sallo, the new coach, was he hated the substitution pattern, basically this mass substitution pattern, and in, out, in, out, and out. And it's a way to be able to play at an extremely fast pace, but not wear guys down. Jah hated it.

Other guys hated it. They can let him get a rhythm. Well, Yassah kind of backed off that with Jah after they had their little blowup. And Jaws' minutes were up over a five-game span, and then boom, he's on the shelf. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. So I think the one to watch as we are here is the fallout for the Bucks, the Bucks being a team that desperately needs Yannis, obviously.

He's having a spectacular season. They did a reasonable job to keep their head above water against the calves on Monday. They ended up losing by 12, but it was a closer game than that. Ryan Rollins, who's been one of the good success stories in the East, had a big game. Yonis went out in the second quarter of that. But the Bucks, after a pretty

a promising start, they've lost three out of four. Their next two games are against Philly and Detroit, two teams that are winning teams in the Eastern Conference. That, you know, they are home, but they're going to be a challenge. Bontzams, you know, like in the Western Conference, like you feel like if you have a five or six game losing streak, that you're going to be battling uphill the rest of the season.

And the Easter is more of a grace, but you lose Janus. It's going to be hard for them to win any games, I think. And so, you know, with the Bucks, we're also, it's not just Yannis. It's not just, oh, where are the Bucks in the standing? It's this undercurrent, which is if the Bucks get to mid-December and January are not viewed as a contender, how is Yonis going to feel about it? And this is Yonis is going to potentially watch the team for a while without him to see what they've had.

And maybe they reel off some wins, but I think they're in a tough spot. Well, a couple things here. First of all, when the Bucks have Yonis on the court, they have an offensive rating of 123.5. That would be the best offensive rating of any team in the league. When Yannis is off the court, he played 414 minutes so far. Yonis is off the court in 311 minutes. They have an offensive rating of 102.1. That would be the worst offensive rating in the league by over two points.

It's 21 points worse per 100 possessions. Overall, they are 19 points worse per 100 possessions when Yonisisis. doesn't play. They are arguably the worst team in the league when Janus is off the court. They're outscored by 12 points per 100 possessions. They have a horrible offense. And the problem is, it's going to be hard for them to do a lot to change that. They don't have a lot of levers to go to, really. They have a team. John Horace has put a lot of guys who can hit spot-up jumpers around Janus, and it's allowed them to have a hell of a team when Janus is out there with the ball. But if Yonis doesn't have the ball, we talked about it going back to the summer.

It was slick business in a way to get Miles Turner for Dame Lillard. However, they never replaced Dame Lillard. And Ryan Rollins has that been a great story. And Ryan Rollins is a good player. But if Ryan Rollins has to create all of your offense, which is basically where they're at now, you're going to be struggling. And the other thing that I think has not been talked about nearly enough is what you just said before about there's a lot more grace in the east and more of a glide path. I frankly think that's completely wrong

and people are really overlooking the fact that the bottom of the West stinks. Bad. Right now, the bucks are... Take a look at the bottom of these, sir. No, no, but here's it with the West. Let me finish. Let me finish. The bucks right now are projected

by our BPI, basketball power index, to finish 10th in the East, as of right now. now with 41 wins. They would be the eighth seed in the West with 41 wins. There are currently seven teams in the West that are projected to be over 500. The eight seed in the West right now is the clippers by our system with 38 wins projected. If we were talking about the eight seed in the East being projected to win 38 games,

we'd be doing a laugh, we'd be having a laugh routine about how bad the East is. Yeah, but you're you're reinforcing the point. Part of the reason why there's fewer wins is because the competitiveness of it. Like if you look at the, if you look at the east, the number 17. No, that's not. No, that's not. Here's the point. The number seven team in the east right now is the heat.

The number 17 in the West is the, are the Warriors. Okay, fine. Here's, but, but dude, we thought obviously the top of the West is loaded. Yes. We thought there were going to be 11 or 12 legitimate. good teams in the West, there's not. The Maverish, stink, the Clipper. Stink. The Grizzlies, Sting. Breaking news, sir, the Mavericks, the Mavericks are going to be a lottery team this year. Okay, well, if that is, okay, well, if that isn't the case, then that makes room for somebody.

You're glossing over the point. The point is, the Jazz are in 10th place right now at 5 and 8. I know. I think the Jazz are winning too much for their own good. The top of the West is obviously far above, right? The thunder are miles ahead of everybody. Denver and Houston are ahead of everybody else after that, right? Point is, if you're a team like Milwaukee and you need some time to try to sort things out with Janus out, it's going to be a lot harder to do that in the Eastern Conference, where the Bulls are currently projected to finish with 39 wins, it'd be the 11 seed. So if you're in the Bulls that have 39 wins. Well, that is right.

Hey, Holmes are. Hey, those bullies win in Denver and pulled one out when Joker had a monster triple double. I know. It was a great win. I mean, that was one of the craziest games of the last decade that a team would win the second night

of a back-to-back of the Utah, Denver back-to-back after playing double overtime in the first game. Maybe the nuggets. Maybe the nuggets thought so too. I mean, that was, there was a wild game. It is a schedule loss of the Bulls won. Let's back off the bowl for at least temporary.

100%. But the point, the point was not a criticism of the Bulls even is that, again, a 39 wins would get you the eight seed in the West. Like, if you're the Bucks, there's, you're, it's much harder actually to stay afloat in the middle of the East if you have an injury like this. That's, that's what I'm trying to say. Like, if they were in the West and the honest was out for a month, they'd have a better chance to salvage things.

But we've talked about how much of a disaster the Clippers are. The Clippers could still be sitting in the play-in after all this. I think your point, which is that there are three teams that have had that we thought were going to be contenders, at least for some level of the play in, have been much worse than we thought, which were the Clippers, Mavericks, and Grizzlies. So that's a fair assessment that, you know, that that's the case. However, I will just say that there's a, there's a, you know, there's a big difference between hanging on to 10, or 11th than doing what the bucks need to do. You know, the bucks don't need to finish ninth. The bucks need to finish like fifth or fourth.

Or what? The middle of the east is just much more difficult and it's going to be harder, I think, to stay in the realm of where you can look at it in a month and say, oh, yeah, the bucks, like the bucks could have a bunch of losses pile up right now and be sitting there in a month and be, I don't know how long you're out. I'll say he's just out a month, just for argument's sake. Oh, my God. I hope not. I hope not, too. But if he is, maybe there are five games back of all these teams. That's hard to make up.

Like, even though they're already right now around 500, they could quickly lose ground. Let me ask you this. What's the Bucks, what's the Bucs real goal this season? I mean, like, not what they put. To keep Biana's happy. That's right. So that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that's in trouble right now. Okay. And was he happy going in the summer? No. And there was a whole bunch of huffing and puffing and And nobody's house got blown. But there wasn't that much huffing and puffing. And that's the thing. Like there was a little bit.

But like if he was men, he was huffing and puff and he would have done it in June, not August. So I don't understand what's going on there either. He was forgetting about meetings that he had with the billionaires. I know, but that's a passive thing. Like he said that like after something else happened. He didn't. Look, Janus up until yesterday, but there wasn't any house is blown down. Yonnes up until yesterday when he got hurt, a Monday, I should say, was playing out of his

mind and arguably might have been the MVP of the league through the first month of the season. I would say it's been mission accomplished for the Bucks in terms of keeping him happy and playing well and being in a good place for where they're at. Now, I don't think the Bucks are a championship team. I don't think there was a way for them to be a championship team. I don't, I think that's the case, even in an Eastern conference that at the top is not very strong. However, because of the depth of the middle of the east, if he does have to miss a decent amount of time, they could quickly be in a scenario where when he comes back, they're sitting in 10th. They're sitting in 11th. And they're going to have to dig just to get into the play. Well, yes, but that I, you were ignoring the initial

point I was trying to make, which is that for all of the talk that the West is so great and so much better than the East. Well, it is. Outside, no, it's not. Outside of the top three teams, the East is much deeper. I know, but it's more important for the Bucks to be in that top three, be knocking on the top three than it is. More important for the bucks to have a chance to make a run in the playoffs. If they're sitting in seventh, it's a better, they can talk, they can talk themselves into that more than if they're sitting in 11th. Do you believe that Janus will give them until the end of the season? Look, I don't think you can have any conversation like this sitting right now at 1.30 in the afternoon on Tuesday when we don't know how long Janus is going to be out, nor where the

bucks will be when he comes back. Also, honestly, I'm kind of tired about speculating on the whole yaw. When's Janus going to ask that? It's been seven years now. Listen, I get what you say in there, McMahon. I don't prefer it either. But if the dude changes teams, it could potentially change a whole balance of power. I understand.

But at this point, honestly, like, I thought it was going to be last summer. He had every reason in the world to ask out last summer. He did. Nobody was a fault. He did kind of ask out. He just did it in a really under effective way. It's extraordinarily difficult to make a trade in the middle of the season. I would be surprised if a trade happened for many reasons in the middle of the season.

We saw it with the Luca trade last year that you can't say no to anything anymore in the league. So it will not say no completely to it. But I'm just much more interested in the fact that, guy who was leading candidate to be MVP the league is now out for a determined period of time, and the bucks could fall off a cliff. He was a leading candidate. I wouldn't say he was

the leading candidate. I mean, I would say he probably was the leading candidate as of right now. But again, did you have a small to approve it? Do you? We'll have to wait for it. Would you have voted for a McMahon? I would have voted for Yolk it. Bond temp's your MVP expertise

is asking other people their opinions. You haven't done that? You don't want to hear it. Let me just ask you this. Your points are all fine, Bontemps. Let me just ask you this. If you were one of the owners of the bucks, how would you be sleeping about the situation? But that is, I mean, I would not be happy

because one of the three best players on the planet has a groin injury. I'm not worried. It's not about his, what he's going to ask for a trade in two months. I think it is, I think every day. I think that's the whole thing for the season. If they get to, if they get to the end of the season,

and Janus is still on the team, they all have had a good year. Let me ask you this. Both of you. Let me ask both of you this. When's the last time you two guys hugged? It's been a while. It kind of feels like it's time.

You guys are really just funny. We mentioned earlier, one of the depressing injuries that just came up to Victor Wenbenyama. A week ago, the Spurs were eight and two in second place in the West feeling good about themselves. And, you know, the NBA is a fragile place.

They get walloped twice by Steph Curry. Can I just say, did I see this stat right? I don't know. Maybe Jackson can back me up. Steph, I think on Friday, made nine threes in that game. And that terrific game, he and Victor both had over 40. I think I saw that that was the 47th time that Steph has had at least nine threes in a game. I think you're mixing up stats.

I'm pretty sure the stat was it was his 47th time with over a certain number of points. But I will double check that. Well, he's had over 40 points more than 47 times. Wow, but I think it was since 30. Oh, which is whatever one. I mean, it's a ridiculous night by. That can't be right. I got that wrong, right?

Yeah. He's had 44, 40 point games since turning 30. That's nuts. I can't. I thought I saw some stat about that. I'm not sure there's been 50. I'll look up on stuff. That can't be right.

Like, I had to got that wrong. Well, let's just assume that was wrong. Where we just spew incorrect statistic. Yeah. Yes, I think you're confusing it with the number of 40. Excuse me. Excuse me, sir. What?

Excuse me, sir. Is that also right? Steph and Curry, 47th career game with nine plus made threes. Bam. It was right. The exact level that I get is zero, McMahon. Zero. No more bond tips.

You always say you can't remember anything. And it is basically the same stat as Steph passing Michael Jordan for most 40-point games over 30. I want to go back to what I said. 47 games over 9 3-3-pointers. By the way, I will say this. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it either.

Like, it did make it through the fog of the weekend that that's dead. I wonder how many other 9-3-point games there have been in NBA history. Okay, well, Jackson has that. Well, not that totally. But second place, you might look on the chat here and see. Second place. I don't know how to work is Dame Lillard. You want to take a guest, McMass,

You haven't looked? Oh, now you're looking now. No, no, I haven't hit it yet. I haven't hit it yet. All right, well, don't. Just, okay, Lillard is second with nine three-point games. I was going to guess. Oh, with nine, three.

So you haven't told me the number? No. I'm going to say 11. Good guess. Your low was 14. Okay. So, that's a good guess. So, Steph, 47 games of at least nine-three, nine-threes,

damn second all time, 14. With less as many. Yeah. 14 is damn impressive. 14 like that. That's a lot of unbelievable nights. Okay. Anyway, the Spurs were running great.

Steph comes in for a baseball series, wallops them twice. Victor's hurt. Dylan Harper was already hurt. Now, Stefan Castle hurt. Yeah, and Castle's a hip. I believe that's going to be more week-to-week than day-to-day. Well, and Harper is week-to-week. So other than they're three,

Three high lottery picks from the last few years, they've gotten healthy. So, well, this is, unfortunately, this just backs up Bontemps' point about the West, unfortunately. I'm sorry to admit it. Now, their schedule coming up is not murderers' row. They've got the jawless grizzlies, the trailless hawks, the scrappy sons. Who are hot. The trailblazers, by the way, we didn't mention Drew Holiday also dealing with a calf injury. By the way, all these injured All-Stars and also the fact that we need a whole bunch of international guys.

I would say that Denny Avia, can you know... Oh, you just got a shot to be an all-star this year. He's got a very strong. I think he's got a strong shot. Yeah. Go ahead. Then to round out the month, they got a tough little weekend at Nuggets, at Wool's. Well, let's just look at the next two weeks.

We know Victor is going to be out. That's where I got you. I just got you through that. Okay. Yeah. This road trip they've got coming up where they finish it in Denver and at Minnesota

I don't know what they're going to have when they get there. So, but, you know, the Spurs have to fight through it. Every team has a stretch like this. If the Spurs, you know, the Spurs, you know, to me, if they make the top six will have done great. Oh, yeah.

And if you can get, you know, if you can get Victor for sure into a playoff setting, that's great. And, you know, I wasn't sure at the start of the season that they were going to be a top six team. I thought they would be a play-in team, which I think would still be a step forward.

And then Victor decided he was going to turn into half-man, half-will Chamberlain going to the basket. And I was like, well, maybe not. But, you know, look, every team is going to be dealing with this. But it is, you know, it's an opportunity for some of these other teams that you mentioned it, you know, at the beginning of the season, you know, we scoffed a little bit at the sun. And, you know, I wouldn't necessarily thought that the Blazers could do it, especially with the Chauncey Billop situation happening.

But those are two teams that can look in front of them behind them and say, you know, if we can put something together, they could get in there. Right now those two teams are projected to finish ninth and tenth with 37 and 36 wins, which is a full 10 less than the spurs. So, again, like, there's real cushion. Now, obviously, Victor's out for two months. then maybe it's a different story. But if it is actually a couple weeks, I don't think it's really going to change much of the trajectory for them. Other than if there are 17s for six spots at the top,

you know, if you want to avoid being in the play in, potentially seeing Oklahoma City or maybe Denver in the first round, like that's a real thing. But, you know, I think it would take a lot for them to not be in the same, the same category as these other teams that they're fighting with, you know, to try to stay that up. What if three of their four best players are hurting?

Well, and I just watch the Blazers lose to the Mavericks, which is hard to do. So I'm going to hold off on too much praise for Portland. You know what Portland's record is? Six and seven. Oh, my God. Good job. Good job, McMahon. There you go.

More Hoop Collective Podcast after this. McMahon, what happens if the Atlantic Division leading raptors, one of Bon Tempts's preseason darlings? Oh. Like, make the conference finals and... Make the conference finals. Whatever. And make the conference semi-finals.

And Anthony Davis gets traded. Well, he, will Bon Tamps just float down. 6th Avenue? I think there's a chance. Why would I be floating 6th Avenue? Because you called the Raptors to start the season. You said that the matter to trade... I just thought to be okay. I wouldn't even said they won a playoff series.

Listen, if the rappers get too hot, I'm going to show up and watch them because they are winless this season when I'm in the building. Lost by 10 in Dallas. That's extremely difficult. They started the season 1 and 4, and I think they're 8 and 1 since. One win was on opening night when they beat the

by a trillion. It's been an interesting start. In Atlanta, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was in Atlanta. Now, they have not played the Murderers Row of the Eastern Conference. That said, they are playing against the 76ers and a game on Wednesday night. I think Bontemps might go down I-95 to see it. Okay. Bontemps, the Raptors, playing with depth.

Yes. Depth is their strategy. As Bonten build them, they've got a whole bunch of okay players, and that's certainly come to fruition. I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a formula to be a solid team, which is what they are. Like, you know, they're, they're kind of like the suns in the east. I think they have more talent overall than the sons. Obviously, you know, you could debate.

Scotty Barnes probably isn't as good as Devin Booker, but I think they're certainly deeper than Phoenix, but they have gone out and after that rough start, have generally done what they should, which has beat a lot of teams that they should, you know, to Monday night was a good example. They messed around with Charlotte. Probably shouldn't have been a two-point game, but they make a couple plays at the end. Scotty Barnes gets a block at the buzzer.

They win by a couple. They get a win. And they're stacking up wins, and they have a bunch of guys playing pretty well. Brand hangers fit in well. I mean, who quickly is playing better. Scotty Barnes is playing well.

And like, he's got a word. Yeah, he's been solid. So if you've got eight or ten guys who're playing every night, especially when, like, I mean, we spent the beginning of the pods, 10 minutes going through all these guys who were hurt,

if you can just be healthy with a solid, two-deep rotation, but that's a formula to rack up a lot of wins. And, you know, it certainly seems like Toronto is on pace to have that kind of a season, though even still, with all that, they're still only projected to finish seventh behind Miami,

behind Philly, behind some of these other teams. I think it's too early for projections. I know you've been saying them all the way through. I don't like it. I think it's, well, I mean, that's fine. It's just, it's a good reminder of some of these hot starts are, you know, they're probably either hot or cold starts are more fluky than they would seem. But I also think there's a world like we've talked about,

you know, we're going to get into Philly's injury situation. Like, I think we said this when we talked about Toronto before the season. Probably more times out of 100, Toronto's going to have a better record than Philly because Joelle and Paul George and these other guys are not great, bets to be on the court on a regular basis. But if Philly has all their guys available, their ceiling is probably higher. And, you know, and Tyrus Mac is a bona fide superstar.

He had another awesome game. Has been big big game. He had a big game, another big game on Monday. Yeah, the rivalry is going to throw it away at the end with two horrific turnovers in the final 20 seconds of the game. Okay, exactly what? Like, about 30 a game? I mean, he's been awesome.

Is he second in the league? Lucas is leading the league in scoring his. Is he second in the league in scoring? I think he got to be tough. Yeah, he was right there with Janice and Luca for, he's been right there with them for this season. He is second league in scoring at 32.5. He's 52.5.

Right above Shea, who never plays in fourth quarters. Yeah. He's shooting 41% on nine attempts of getting from three. It's pretty good. Well, the Raptors are, you know, as we're recording this, maybe some variance after Tuesday, night, but the Raptors are top 10 in both offense and defense. Not a bad place to start. You know, it's 14 games, but it's not nothing.

Yeah, here's a prediction. If the Raptors make the playoffs, the casual NBA fan is going to become very familiar with Glorilla. Are you guys familiar with Glorilla? I am familiar with Glorilla. No. You're not a Glorilla fan. I don't know.

Maybe I am. A legendary Memphis rapper. She has frequently been seen Courtside of Grizzies games over the years. Well, she is dating Brandon Ingram. When Aaron Dow, she had the best seat in the house. Courtside, right by where the... It's one of the seats they take out when the national TV table comes in.

And let me tell you, she's entertaining because she supports her man. When Brandon scores, she's going to let the whole arena know about it. That is kind of a little bit of an insight. So there's... How many seats do you think at Center Court? maybe six or eight seats that are kind of fungible because... She put the fun and fungible that night. Because when there's national TV games, they, you know, that's where the broadcasters go.

So they take those seats out. Especially in Dallas. Some places have seats there all the time. Like at MSG, they've always got seats on that spot, whereas in Dallas, they're at the scorest table. So that's, that spot's open. Anyways, I'm just saying. I don't know if that's true.

They would have, I don't actually don't want to get in, I don't want to go down that. It just means some license we've got to see. That's all. Just a little insight into the NBA is that those seats are at center court typically are controlled by the team every night because they take them away in the biggest game. So they're a hard sell. So teams will sell them individually and that does happen a lot. But also when you get a big celebrity like Lerilla. Yeah. You might recall Glorilla when when when when when when that sentence, you may recall Glorilla.

I mean, Mark it. She expressed public interest. But now she's now, you know, happily in their relationship with Brandon. Who is playing very good basketball for the Toronto Raptors. He's playing. He's playing. He's playing great. He's shooting. He's shooting 49%. You know, the three point shot isn't going great. But, you know, he's a guy who, you know, does best. when he gets the ball in his hand and can play make, and they're letting him do that a little bit. They let Scotty Barnes do that a little bit. You know, Barnes is having a good year. Barnes, you know, the Raptors are two and oh against the calves. And whenever Barnes and Evan Moby play against each other, there's extra, a little extra spice. They were drafted side by side. Barnes won rookie of the year. You know, they both made the All-Star game, I think, for the same year. And then Evan came back last year and had a, I think Barnes had the better 30.

year, Evan came back last year, made all NBA, defensive player of the year, and they always get up for each other. And Barnes whipped Mobley when they played last week in Cleveland, totally won that round. But yeah, I mean, the good thing with Toronto, knock on wood, knock on wood, is they've been healthy. You know, they've pretty much had the same starting five, pretty much in every game. Maybe there was, maybe Pertil, Yacca Pertil missed a few days. Yeah, he's missing time with a back issue. But yeah, they've been, I mean, just being able to have, mostly rotation is a big leg up on the competition. And, you know, Toronto's been able to take advantage of that.

The team that they're playing on Wednesday night certainly knows about injuries, but they're getting better, Bontemps. So Philly will be hosting them. Joe L. Embed has missed, I think, three games now with the right knee. Yeah, four in a row, three right knee soreness. First one was the second night of a back-to-back. Practice Tuesday, see if he plays Wednesday. Not an official update on him yet.

Paul George came out of Monday's game looking good, and I think the expectation is he'll be out there on Wednesday. Paul George played his first game. Didn't shoot the ball great. I think he was two of eight or two of nine. And I do think, you know, so for them, they're going to play him at four. Is that their intention, Ponta?

He says that he's going to be there for? I mean, I think he and Kelly Ubre were going to be there starting three and four. Oh, Bray's out right now. And you want to square him, but Kelly Ubre is out for a while with a knee injury, probably had a nasty fall the other day in Detroit. So I think Paul will probably slot in at the three as, you know, classic Philly. You have one guy come in and you have another guy immediately go out.

Exactly right. But, you know, they keep, again, like, they found a way to scrap through these games. They're seven and four in clutch games. They're tied with Dallas for the most clutch games in the league. Max, he's been great down the stretch of games. He was great in the fourth quarter on Monday against the Clippers. Clippers playing second night of the back-to-back. Look like they got a little tired.

And, you know, Sixers didn't play well, but they managed to win. And they keep finding ways to stack wins and just kind of hang around. And if they can get everybody on the court, and again, it seems like Joel and Bede is not far away. Nick Nurse said that Monday, practice Tuesday. We'll see if he plays Wednesday. You would have thought a back-to-back in Milwaukee was a loss two days ago. Now might be a different story. So, you know, they're plugging a lot.

long and VJ Edgecombe has been good and, you know, it's like we've said a few times. It's, it's a far different vibe than last year when they came in the season with these massive expectations, but it's a much better mood around the team because, you know, instead of being way below expectations, we're frankly no expectations coming into this season with the way Maxie's played and with the way Edgecombe has played and the way Quentin Grimes, frankly, has played. I mean, McMahon's brought that trade up a couple times. I mean, he has been incredible for the moment he got to Philly. I've got good. I do have good news. I do have good news. for the Mavericks on that trade.

Yeah. It is no longer true that Quentin Grimes is averaging more points per game than Kayla Martin has scored all season. But it's 22 for the season for Caleb Martin to 17 per game for Quentin Grimes.

I mean, Quentin Grimes got an argument for six men of the year. He's been great. So yeah, but they're playing fast and playing fun and, you know, it's like the vibes are pretty good. So when it comes to Paul George, you know, I talk to some scouts

and one of the things that they say, And look, they don't know if he's going to be able to. He's coming off knee surgery. I don't know. But, you know, two years ago when he was in, when he had that really good year with the clippers, is the reason that the Sixers made him the four-year max offer. You know, it's funny. You talk to people with the clippers who are not running their mouth about anything right now.

No victory laps right now. But they don't want a victory lap. You know, when you talk to him about Paul George, they're like, you know, yeah, he left for a four-year max. and he got injured, you know, he got injured, you know, twice or whatever right away. They're like, by the way, we offered him three year max. Or, you know, they offered him three years at some big number. What like they said, Paul, we're done with you. Like, they offered him a big number, you know, like they wanted him back just on those terms.

It wasn't like they didn't want him back. But one of the reasons why he got those offers, he had this really good year that last year in L.A. It was an all-star. It was actually an all-star his last two years in L.A. And he shot 41% on threes that year. And he shot over 40% a couple of times in his career. It wasn't like it's never heard of, but he shot the highest volume in his career.

And that was one of the things that really opened up his game. He crushed it from three. And so what the scouts are saying is, is that still there? Is Paul George still a type of player who can shoot 40% from three on six or seven a game? Maybe the answer is no. But if he can't. Can he do what Tobias Harris has done for Detroit? Well, I think, I mean, yeah, I mean, again,

comparing them to Tobias Harris' am using on a variety of levels based off Tobias' run in Philly right before that and him essentially replacing Tobias as Harris' Correct. They used his cap space to decide that. Which is why McMahon made the comparison, and it's a fitting one. But I think the thing to look at to me is

when Kelly Ubre is back and when Embed is back, like, look, again, I repeatedly said, the idea of Philly being some championship contender with these guys is not the way you should look at it. But if they're rolling out there with VJ Edgecom and Tyris Maxi, Grimes coming off the bench, Paul George at the four and a beat at the five,

they are going to score a gazillion points. Now, they're going to give up a lot of points and they're going to struggle to get any rebounds. But they're going to fly up and down the court and shoot a ton of threes and you're going to have to guard all of them. And they're going to be fun to watch and decent, which, again, go back to a year ago, and the absolute cesspool that their season was,

to come out of that with Vijay Edgecombe and this season that they're having and Maxie's taken a step and just the general tenor around the team, they're in a far better place than they were then, even if it's not the place that they were hoping it would be when they signed a beat of that extension and they signed George for that contract a year ago.

Okay, we got an ESPN national television game Wednesday night in Cleveland rockets at Cavs. Cavs, despite all of their injuries and various woes, are 10 and 5 and have the second best record in the East. Rockets continue to be one of the more impressive teams in the Western Conference. Key road game, McMahon, for the Rockets to see how their defense works against Donovan Mitchell. He's having an absolutely spectacular season. Yeah, also, let's see how the Cavs defense deals with the number one offense. in the NBA.

Even with the addition to Kevin Durant, I don't know that anybody anticipated that Houston would be the league's best offense. I did not anticipate. 20% of the way into the season. But again, Katie's cooking, Alpyshingoons taking that next big jump and they got some dudes around them.

Well, listen, the Rockets, we talked the other day about Kevin Durant and the impact Kevin Durant has had. And obviously him replacing Jalen Green and to a lesser extent, Dylan Brooks is going to help their offensive efficiency. But I just want to point this out. Rockets have right now a 40.8% offensive rebound rate. That means they're just so people understand what that means.

That means they're rebounding two out of every five of their own misses in a game. The second highest offensive rebounding team in the league is Portland at 35.8%. Five percentage points. Which is great. Which is very good. That's celebratory. The gap from Portland to another five points down is the nets in 16th. That is what we're talking about in terms of the separation for the rockets at the top in terms of how dominant they've been.

Well, and Shangoon, like, they are just, when they're in there, like, in that magic game, there was a possession in either late in the fourth quarter or an overtime when he and Shangoon just took the ball away from the magic, I think, five times in a row before Shangoon made this ridiculous behind the back pass for a layup. And like, they're just unstoppable on the glass. So even when they do miss and they're making more shots than they normally have been, they're rebounding it half the time. It's unbelievable. Stephen Adams is averaging 5.1 offensive rebounds per game in 22 minutes. By the way, but get this, their third big man, Clint Capella, is averaging 2.5 offense

rebounds in 9.8 minutes. It's crazy. I mean, they're just a machine. I'm in Thompson with a couple of games. I would say they've got a point guard who's an elite offense to rebound. And that point guard, a lot of times, will bring the ball up, get him in their stuff, and

relocate to that dunker spot where he is a problem as a finisher and as a rebounder. Awesome, awesome start for them. These are Donovan Mitchell's statistics. You know, if you had to take a straw poll right now, I, you know, the tough one would be who you're putting it fifth.

Probably wouldn't make the top five because how awesome victory's been and even Kade. But here's Donovan Mitchell's stats through 13 games. 31 points. 51% shooting, 39% from three, which is significantly above his

career average. He's getting to the free throw line eight times a game, which is vital for them. Five and a half assists, one and a half steals. and just he's playing point guard guys. I mean, maybe not the entire game, but when it matters, he's playing point guard.

And his rebounds, he's lamenting that he's not rebound anymore because the calves are struggling rebound. But when he does rebound, he gets it and runs and is like, you know, playing super high tempo. Like, he has been awesome for them, and he's also playing 34 minutes, which is three minutes more than he played last year. and is not ideal.

And that is a number that's, you've got to keep an eye on, I think. He's been a top three guard in the Eastern Conference. Cade, Tyrese Maxie, Domva Mitchell. Yeah. And again,

to go back to what we talked about the other day, it's only 73 minutes, it's only three games. But when Darry's Carlin's been on the court this season, Cleveland's offensive rating is 128.3. Like, they really need that second,

creator on the court. And look, like we talked about, they're 13 points worse on offense when Dadavin Mitchell is on the bench. Like, he's been awesome for them. But what turned them into a supercharged offensive team last year was having two of him, D'Odivin, Mitchell,

and I Jerome out there all the time. And basically, they've played this entire year with one of them. And so, naturally, the offense has been worse. So, you know, we'll see how long Garland's out. They've only called this toe thing a contusion. We talked about the concerns we have about that. But I think until they get him back out there on a regular basis,

they're going to be what they've basically been, which is they've, again, grinded out wins, which is important and found ways to win these games. But it's also putting a ton of strain on Donovan, and it hasn't been pretty at times. One thing that Kenny Atkinson has been trying to get them to do is to go to the rim more because that's something that they were good at last year, and that has been eroded this year for various reasons,

primarily because Evan Milby's had to handle the ball more than go down there and dunk. But they did get 54 points in the paint against the bucks. Now, okay, Janice went out in the second quarter. He's a rim defender, but that was a step forward in the right direction. But Houston's going to make it very hard to get down there. I mean, you want to talk about having difficulty getting to the rim. Try getting to the rim against those trees. So it'll be interesting to see whether or not that's a,

strategy you can hold up, but there'll be a good game on ESPN on Wednesday, followed up by a McMahon show down there, the Knicks visiting. Looking forward to your great reporting on that, McMahon. Can't wait. Thank you for the backhand. You're wearing a suit to the game. All right, thank you very much to McMahon and Bontems. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you for watching.

Listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll catch you guys later this week. Adios amigos.