Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Brittany Snow on Therapy, Overcoming People Pleasing, and Directing Films

Episode Date: August 12, 2024

Brittany Snow (Pitch Perfect, X) talks to Rachel and Olivia about her path to becoming a film director, how she channels any painful experiences in her life into something useful and creative. She also discusses her father's diagnosis of Alzheimer's Disease. Broad Ideas is supported by Quince. Go to Quince.com/ideas for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Broad Ideas is supported by Posh Peanut. Go to postpeanut.com/broad and use promo code BROAD for 20% off your first order.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Hi, guys. We have Brittany Snow, who I have known for a very long time and have loved for a very long time. She's like just an angel human on this earth. You've known her for a long time. Yes.

People might know her from the music video, the phrase that pays. Rob's friend's music video. The Academy is music video. Or pitch perfect. Probably more from American dreams or American dreams. Or her directorial debut. Yeah.

Parachute. Or wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh, wait. Wait, wait. There's more. Or X. Or X. Or broad ideas.

That's where people are really going to know her from. So let's just welcome Brittany. Let's do it. Sometimes when the way inside of Rachel's little bring all these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride we'll talk about dogs and kids and things we'll talk about chicks and tampon strings we'll talk about boys because people die welcome oh my god we're so happy I am so happy you guys I've like known y'all for Wait, oh my God, I have to show you something. So I looked this up. Is it Halloween Horn Nights?

It's true. I said the same thing. Not Scary Farm. Yeah, yeah. Not Skary Farm. But it not. And I looked it up because I found a picture. You found it? Let me see. I was thinking about that this morning as I was coming here. You were? Okay. I'll have to show it like on the camera, but I just like pulled up one. What am I wearing? Let me see. I'm wearing like, okay. Do you see this? My shirt, my shirt says whipped. No. Oh, it does. I got it in a camera. I got it in a camera. I got it. gift bag. I remember thinking so cute. Well, I remember thinking, like, I don't really know what this means. I didn't know what that word was yet, I don't think. Oh my God. That's really cute. But look at it. You're so beautiful. Look at Helen. Like, we're so young. So this was 2003. I looked up the date. 2003.

So that's 2021 years ago. Okay. Oh my God. That's track. I have a chrome hearts like tank top underneath my white thermal in a vintage her. I have to tell you, though, when I was there, I, Hi, it was so, I was such a fan girl of you. I could not believe that I was at this function with you. And I was like, and I had to like walk behind you to do all the scary houses. And I was just like, oh my God. Are you kidding? I loved you.

It was like very mutual. But that's just, it's just so funny because I mean, so long ago. So long ago. And Brody and I had just, I think, started dating. I feel like we were dating there. I remember you guys were like kind of holding hands in front of me. And I was like, it. Yeah.

That was like the beginning. of everything. Yeah. Oh my God. And you, you were on American Dreams. I was on American dreams. I was on American dreams, right? Yeah. And the guy that I was with my, was my first real boyfriend, my first love. Gosh, I was whipped. That's why I think I wore that shirt. It was accurate. Yeah. But what a little cutie time. He had the, like, weird surfer, like, adorable. Adorable. Oh my God. Yeah. But we, so many, so many, like, it's so bizarre to me that that time was so influential in my life because I didn't know what the heck was going on. I was going to all these different things and thinking I knew what I was doing and I was just completely

lost. I mean, I was 16. I don't know how you felt about that time. I was 16. I did American dreams with you. I know. I totally forgot about that until just now. Two or three episodes. You were like the friend of the meme girl, right? Yes. Oh my God. Yes. We went to prom. Yes. I didn't go to prom in real life. I went on American dreams. And I must say that you were an angel. You were so, yeah. That's so nice. Because you never know what you're going to get, you know,

and I remember coming on to the set and being like really like nervous. And you were just like instantly like there, present, loving. It's so amazing because I definitely was not present during that time. You were. You were. I felt taken care of by you. Oh. Yeah.

That's really great. Wait, but that's so young. year old me. I know. But 16 and like holding a show, that's such a huge thing, you know. That was such a good show. It was such a good show. It was a great, great show. I had no idea the relevance of what it was going to do to my life and also just how important that show was going to be so many people. I just really was taking it for granted. I thought I would get another show like that tomorrow, you know? Right. Right. But yeah. You're like, oh, hasn't been another show like that? No, there really hasn't. And it was such a show before its time as well because everybody,

now is doing shows where it integrates music and period things. But this was just so special. So special. So special. I know what you mean. It's like the lightning and a bottle thing. You're like, oh, this is just, because that was your first show, like your, yeah, my first real show. I mean, I had done a, I had done a soap opera before that in New York until I was about 15. And then that was basically my first show other than, I remember I went out for pilot season. And, And I got, this is a very strange thing to say because it's going to sound really pompous. And like, I'm just so, so talented. But I got this, I got Everwood and I got American Dreams.

Oh my good. And I had to choose between the two. And thankfully, you know, and Emily Van Kay, I mean, I'm sure that, it all was like meant to be, but I remember being like, I am just killing. You're a teenager too. I was a teenager, yeah. And so from then on, I kind of, when the show ended, I was like, oh, I'm going to be able to just work forever and, you know.

But you actually have. But you actually have, you know, kind of yes and no. I mean, it goes through some periods where I'm like, I need to pivot. And I always feel like my career is doing like a steamboat, like cruise ship sort of thing where I change very, very slowly. Nothing has been very quick. But I think the longevity of that really serves, you know, what I want. Right.

And you've been working on a show. recently you were just shooting, right? And that's a different thing from what you've done. I don't know that much about it. I remember like seeing on. Oh, it's so different. And yeah, we were going to do, we were going to do this while I was there. And it was so intense. Where was you? It was on the kitchen. Charlotte, North Carolina. Oh, it's beautiful. Do you go to Charlotte? Sorry, I'm thinking in Wilmington. Yeah, yeah. I love the airport because they have rock your chairs. That's what I like about Charlotte. They do. Oh, my God. That's so funny. No, I was like. No one who's to anyone who lives in Charlotte.

You were like, wait, what are you talking about? She looked at you like, interesting. I'm at Wilmington. Yeah, Wilmington, Charleston and South Carolina. Yeah. Charming places. Charlotte, I actually will give it a lot of credit. I was there for five months.

And I did find pockets of places where are really charming and lovely. But, you know, it's not exactly like people aren't going to Charlotte. Yeah. Right. No, you go to the airport. You go to the airport. You sit in the chair. Yes.

Yeah. And the rocking chairs. It's really, really intense and good. And it was probably I hadn't had an experience like that since American Dreams where I felt really in it. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Do you enjoy being back in the TV land?

What is it like? Because you ventured off into a lot of movies. Yeah, I did feel really nice in the TV land again because I really like the consistency and the structure of. knowing day to day what I'm doing. I'm a control freak in that way. And I like knowing this is when I can work out. This is when I can take my meetings. This is when I can do all these other things because I know the day. And with TV, you're constantly getting, you know, your schedule and things are kind of ebbing and flowing. But there's still a consistency to knowing that you're pretty much working all the time. Right. So I did like that. And I really liked the cast and the crew and everyone was so happy to

be there, which is, you know, sometimes not always the case. And from, everyone feeling collectively positive about what we were putting out was really, really nice. Yeah, that's so nice. But the movie part has been all over the place. So it's been really nice to get to be on a show where I'm like, consistency. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I know. And I always go back and forth in my head. It's like, well, the nice thing about like going and doing something and then it's done and you move on. But consistency. Yeah. That speaks to my soul. Prefer it. Consistency.

Yeah. It does. I like ritual, routine. Me too. Like you were saying, like knowing when you're going to work out, knowing when you're going to get to do your things. So now that you're, are you on break? What is, what are you doing?

Yeah. I'm a really good question. What are you doing? I'm doing. I ask myself that question every day. What hell am I doing with my life? What are you doing with your life? How is it going?

I did have like a mini freak out the other day where I was like, I'm not working. You know, and you know this feeling where if you don't, if you're not consistently working And I think because of being kid actors, like, you put such an equivalence of, like, yourself worth to if you're constantly doing something. And so right now I'm trying to just, like, live in the, I finished a show. I worked every day for five months. You can deserve a break. Yeah.

You know, but that's really hard for me. So, of course, I wrote a script and, you know, things like that where I was like, I'm going to keep trying to, you know, hustles in my nature. Directing. So many, honestly, I like look up to you so much just what you've accomplished and everything you went through personally, but you're still just like all this amazing stuff that's coming back to you professionally and I'm sure personally too. It's beautiful. I'm like, you fucking don't. Like I'm envious, but in a very supportive, healthy way. I totally get that. And I'm like that

with so many people where it's like half envious, half inspired because you know that it's in you. It's just, it's, it takes. so much work to get anything made. And I think people really don't realize that if you're not in the business. I mean, look, me playing like a tiny violin about this. It's not really that big of a deal. But it takes so long to get anything done. And then when you finally do it, it's, yeah, there's that little bit of like, wow, we can still do this. We can pull this off. Yeah. We can do this. Yeah. It's a huge, huge feat. And so I really appreciate that coming here. Yeah. No, and it's, yeah, that we can do this and we can survive anything, which goes hand in hand.

because even though when you're going through stuff and you're still doing it, it's like, I get up every time. I show up in that ring every single time. And I think it's something that really should be commended because it's not easy. This is true. It's not. But then I think about other people who have been through way worse things and who, you know, treated as something that's propelling them forward and using it for good.

And I think that's what I tried to do with the movie or with anything. that I do is I always think to myself, what is this teaching me? What is this going to teach me in the future? And how can I sort of reframe this in my brain to make it worth it? Because it can't all be for nothing. I do not like that. So if anything is really painful in my life, I always think, I'm going to turn this into something. It better be useful for like a movie or like for help or for someone else or anything. I think that that was one of the things, which is really interesting that I've, I've gotten to this in therapy is that I think for me always wanting to be an actress and I always had it benchmarked as like everything traumatic I would go through. I'd be like, it's okay

because I'm going to use it later. Yeah. And then as I started to grow up and didn't have that like kind of outlet, I was like, oh, I'm now holding all this stuff. What am I supposed to do with it? Right? And I think that it's an interesting place to come to where you realize that you have a responsibility to do something with what you're holding. And whether that's for art, whether it's for creativity, service, to help people, whatever it is, putting it back out there in some way is kind of an obligation in a way. Yeah, or if anything, you know, and that's- Not obligation, but like, yeah. It's a privilege to be. It's necessary. Yeah. I was saying that to a friend of mine the other day. And that's like an altruistic way of thinking about it. And this is maybe more selfish. But we were talking about how, you know, there's things that that happen in your life that make you really angry. And that anger is so warranted and obvious. But we can't hold on to it because it's only festering ourselves. And it's only going to do anything terrible to our own. And it's So giving it away and putting it not on anyone else, but out there in a way, is the only thing that's really important. And so, yeah, it's almost like an obligation not to hold on to that because if it's not serving you, then it has to be let go. And it's not serving anyone else.

Right. But it's really hard. Speaking about anger, that brings up, I don't know how someone goes through a divorce, a separation without anger. I think that that is a natural part of the deal. How do you, what is your relationship with anger? God, why did I bring this up? You did. I did it to yourself.

I did it. We don't know how not to go there. I know, I know. We neither. I actually was talking about this with the other day with somebody. They were like, why do you have to go so deep so fast? I'm like, it's literally just my mechanism into a connection, I guess. can't, I don't know. Same. We can talk about the weather later, but I, I'm really, really dealing

with that. To be honest, the last script that I wrote is, is about that because it's very helpful for me to really pull that apart because I'm not very connected to it. I, in therapy, deal with a lot where I'm much more like I can cry. I can, and my mechanism is much more like, I'll be sad for people or I'll use this in a way that is more empathetic. But getting in touch on my anger is really difficult because when I was a kid, you know, as is like kid actors, you're taught to not be angry because you have to be grateful and you have to be perfect and you have to, you know, be on. And what the hell is anger going to serve?

And so I think making that feel okay and safe is really interesting for me because sometimes I don't know if there's like a cap to it. Like if I don't know how to be like, no, this is an okay feeling to explore because there's such a stigma around that bitch is angry, you know. It's a stigma around women and anger. Big time. And I think that you really, and I relate as well, we're not, we don't walk around angry. We're not angry people. I didn't know I was angry until I got sober and went to school.

And I was like, I don't relate to anger. Like I feel like what you were saying, I feel sad, I feel hurt, I can feel broken, depressed, any of those things, but not angry. And then once I started to like tap into moving the anger out of my body and being like what are healthy ways to do that, I was like, oh my God, I'm so angry. Like really angry. And I think you're the same. Like you don't walk around expressing anger in any way, shape, or form. No, maybe in my car sometimes. No.

I don't even do it in the car. I'm like, go ahead. I'm the last person to actually honk the horn. You know what I mean? I know. Yeah, so that's true. Yeah, I don't think I carry it. But if you do look at it, of course, we all have it.

And that makes so much sense, like, growing up a certain way. I'm like, you have to always be grateful and you have to always be this and that. And, you know. I will say, too. I noticed it even in the beginning with actresses, especially, and doing this podcast, I've learned so much. There's always this sort of front-loading with. I know it's not that big of a deal or I know people have real problems. I know. I just did that. I know. I just did that. You have to preface everything.

Yeah. Especially the more an actress has, the more they do it. And it really kind of hurts my heart because pain, emotion, like, yes, there's privilege in life. Yes, you have a beautiful privilege life that you've gotten to create films and television. But you're a human being. Right. Mm-hmm. And your feelings are valid and real. Right. Because you're like, it's real for you. It's real for you.

Yeah. It's not just you got, it's all the actresses come in and always kind of preface before saying anything that affects them. Yeah. And I think the duality of knowing that is really interesting because my brain just went to, but it's really not that bad in the grand scheme of things because I think that gray does really exist where you can have. have feelings, but also be very grateful for the privilege.

100%. And that gray and that duality is really hard for people to understand that there's space for both. Like how lucky I know I am, but also how much I've been through. Like those two things can coexist. And it doesn't negate the other one. Right. Right. But I think that that's, I think that's what I deal with so much in therapy a lot is like

leaving space for the gray of two things can be true. Right. You can be super angry about. something, but also super grateful it happened. You know, all the different things that you can walk around with in your car being like, I wish I could flip that guy off, but that's just not who I am. You know, those sort of things are really hard to feel like you can have both. Right.

You can. She's always telling me, like two things can exist at the same time. But it is like a hard concept. You're like, oh, I can be. Well, I can have feelings and also be humble. Right. Like, I think that there's been this kind of limited. are a way of thinking and projecting for so long. And I think that the internet's contributed to that

and a lot of people that don't have the tools and maybe haven't studied in the way that a lot of us with privilege have. So they think if there's any form of expression that isn't positive that you're ungrateful. Yes. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. I do, I do think like, you know, and I know you relate to this too. And I think that that's been really hard to navigate to still feel my feelings and also like understand what that anger is for me, but to not have to keep it hidden in a way because I didn't want people to feel bad for me. I didn't want people to talk about me. I don't like anybody to talk bad about me. I want everyone to like me. It's something that's really hard, but to then also follow it.

up with, but I want to be authentic. I don't want to be living a lie either. So I think that all of those things can exist at one. Totally. But you're in a position where like the world sees what you have to go through. You know what I mean? And that adds a whole other element of like almost like you can come to your own defense, not that you have to defend yourself, but like you can control it to a certain degree with a narrative. But the fact that you feel like you kind of have to sometimes because all of it's there, I think that's the hardest thing for me. Yeah. Because I'm like, but I don't want to talk about any of this.

I definitely don't. And even now, I'm like, oh, no. I don't want to talk about this. No, of course, of course, you know. But it's just the fact of whatever it is, not even saying like the recent thing that was, you know, a big thing for you, like whatever. It's just like anything when you're in the public eye and then the public feels like they have an opinion on your life and your feelings and what's happening.

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I find so much, and this sounds like Pollyanna bullshit, but I find a lot of empathy for people who say those types of things because they just want their opinion to matter. And everybody wants to be heard and everybody wants to say something that everyone's like, oh shit, you know. And I think that that's really interesting to me, that sort of dynamic of like, you're going to make this comment. It's going to get this sort of hit, this dopamine hit that you said something that resonated with someone else. And that connection is so pure and the reason that people do it. And that has nothing to do with me.

That has something to do with you needing connection. And I try to focus in on that as opposed to what people are saying and just like, that is so healthy. They probably want to, like, hang out with the other person that liked that comment. Because they, like, have a like-minded sort of, even if it's maybe wrong. She has a place for all these people. She just talked about this. I just discovered a place for all these people to go. In your mind or in reality?

In reality. It's world wrestling. Okay? Because I went to a wrestling match. And these people were shouting the meanest stuff, but everyone there signed up for it. And so it's in fun. It's in sport. But they're all trolling.

and they're all doing it together. Yeah. And it's like the wrestlers are egging it on. Like they signed up for it. They're down for it. Go give it there. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, it's a great public forum to get out your anger in a healthy way. It's a good idea. Yeah. Maybe I should go there. It was so fun. I was like yelling at people. They're just yelling at people and they're like, you suck. And the person's like, do I suck?

Like their inner. acting with it and I'm like, it's connection, it's expression. They're moving stuff out of their body that's stored. They're doing something that's actually healthy. I know. And I find it, that's probably a really good place to go because I would imagine that a lot of people are very angry and where do you put, even if you are not in our business whatsoever and you have kids and you're going from day to day, like where do you put all your anger? I mean, that's how it gets people in so much trouble with their marriages or with their work life, I don't, I don't know what the answer is other than WrestleMania. Resolvania. Oh, I told you where the answer. Yeah, yeah. We're just like going out

in the backwoods and throwing shit out of, I don't know. That's great. I love that. Axe throwing. Axe throwing. I would never be able to do that. It would come right back. It's something and I would be dead. It's really, it is sad. I was reading, this is a really tragic thing that happened. This young girl lost her life. I'm not exactly sure how, but she had set a picture.

This breaks my heart. They're talking about the girl who fell while taking it? No. Sorry. Whenever this is, I'm already sad. I know. It's absolutely heartbreaking. So she's like 25 years old,

beautiful tattoo artist. And she scheduled a Instagram post to go after she died. No. Wait, you mean she committed suicide? They said not to speculate. The family said, can you please during this time not speculate?

She's passed peacefully. That's what they put out, right? Oh. So she timed it? She timed it. So it went out after and kind of said, here are the things, if I ever hurt you, if I ever manipulated you, if I ever anything to you. Like, it was coming from a broken ego.

like so beyond moving and and heart wrenching. And of course I get sucked into reading all the comments. And it's like people will start saying things. They'll come and say things. And I'm like, oh my God, you're so sick. To take that opportunity when someone lost their life to say things to stir the pot. And to me, I'm like, that shows severe illness. illness in our society.

It sounds like you can turn to empathy just like what you were saying because obviously Yeah. Like it never occurred to me how sick these people are until that moment. Well, I was like, oh, you're, that's, that's something that, of course, we can't relate to because your brain would never have you seek out opportunities to stir the part when pot when people are grieving. Right. And so whether it's an actress they're commenting on, whether it's a, like,

There's something in them that is not functioning in a healthy way. And that's tragic. Yeah. I think it's really hard for people to wrestle with the severity of real problems sometimes because it's like our brain as a mechanism doesn't go there. I know for me, whenever something happens, and I try to use this in acting too because always like the script says, and then she has a breakdown when she finds out. And it's like, that's not what my body does.

My body goes nothing. like numb. Right. And my brain tries to process it and like how do I how do we rationalize this? Okay, make it make it make it okay. And I think that like that space of not understanding what's happening and your brain is doing everything in its power to like understand it is where I'm trying to go when people react like that of like they just can't really feel it or else it's it's too much. It's too hard. That makes sense. Yeah. I think that I mean, or they're just terrible people But I'm going to try to look at it from the way of maybe it's a self. Yeah.

I don't know. Comforting thing for the brain. Right. I think even terrible people, there's a reason. Right? Terrible people. Terrible people? Like, there's usually reason why they're terrible.

Right. Yeah. I mean, like, and I won't go into detail because, but there's like a certain that I, like, someone commenting that, like, changes their name all the time. but like the narrative is always exactly the same. Yeah, yeah. Like what they're saying. Yeah.

But it's like so clear that there's just something, you know, they're not well, right? And but what do you do with that? Like, do you look at that. And I do. I feel empathy for that person. Like that clearly there's, you know, whatever it is. I know nothing about, I don't know who they are. I don't know anything about their life.

But like there's clearly something going on. But it's just, I always say like don't read things. And I started to do this with her a lot. Like, don't read the comments, you know. I know it's so hard. It's so hard not to. But I also deal with in therapy the mechanism that makes me want to care about everybody. Oh, yeah.

And what a great exercise it is to not even care about a few, but to care about nothing. And it's really, really hard for me. Are you a people pleaser? Oh, my God. I was a kid actress. Like that's like my whole DNA. And to undo that learning of, and I think it's hyper vigilance too of walking into a room and knowing what everyone's mood is and how I can be in service to that or like make

someone feel better. I mean, that was how I grew up as a kid. And I really have to unlearn that and come in in my own way, in my own energy, in my own space, which has been really helpful for me. It's just like... It's hard. It's really bizarre how that's my go-to DNA of like chameleon myself. Yeah, right.

But now I've done it, you know, and it takes practice, but now I'm really, really proud of myself that I can separate what people think of me as opposed to like what I think of myself. And that took so much unlearning. Right. Well, because also, I don't know if you're familiar with Esther Hick. So I was listening to her yesterday and someone asked the question, what does it mean when someone's drawn to fame or they want to be in the public eye or acting or any of these things that have that? And she said, it's really simple.

She said, where we come from, and this is spiritual. So it may or may not. Okay. She said, where we come from, we're so completely seen. We're so recognized. We're so, you know, it's like that recognition that we have, whether it's from source or whatever you want to call it. And then we come to Earth and there's like a separation from that. And so people that are drawn to these fields have a deep craving.

It makes me emotional because it's like a deep craving for home because that's what they're used to. And I was like, oh my God, that's such a beautiful way to see it. And she's like, but be mindful of looking for love in all the wrong places. Because people that are drawn to these things, I've questioned that in myself all the time. Like, what does that draw? And it's like, oh, it is. It's to be seen. It's to be recognized.

It's to be appreciated, valued, all that stuff. The interesting part is you get that and then you get all the other stuff with it. And so it's like you're almost. back at neutral. Whereas if you weren't in the entertainment industry, you weren't putting yourself out there, you'd probably get appreciation and love from those around you. Do you get what I'm saying?

Yeah. So it's like you're opening yourself up to all of that that you crave. And then all the other attention that is so unhealthy. Yeah. Does this make sense what I'm saying? And I actually really love that. of wanting to feel home because I think everyone has that need to feel validated in their

existence and that you matter and we're here on this rock for like two seconds and what really matters. Are we seen? Do we feel home? And I think, yes, the entertainment business makes a false like facade of that, that like this movie matters, even though no one's going to remember it. But I do think on the flip side of that, that I think the negativity and the things that come with the entertainment business are the exact things that I needed to learn that gave me the hardest lessons that put me in the best situation to where I feel the most me. And maybe that wouldn't have happened if I worked at a bank. Totally. And it's almost like I knew that something had to be this hard in order for me to learn it because.

And so I'm grateful for it in a way. Because like working at the bank wasn't really going to have the same. lesson as, you know, other things. So we don't all... Not to say that working at the bank doesn't have a very hard challenge. It doesn't have... No, but the thing is, is that we all have, I do believe we all have our own, like, unique, beautiful curriculum. And what we need to learn is wrapped in that. And sometimes at the bank, like, they don't have, she might, he might not need to learn what you came to learn. And And it's not better or worse either, which is what I think, I think a lot of people sort of put on the entertainment business in general is that like it's better or people think they have it worse or whatever.

It's just, it's just different. I don't find it. I don't find it better or worse other than the privilege that we have to get in places. I don't know. There's every once in a while I'm like, this is cool. I did not have to wait for this. Yes, yes. But other than that, you're like a line at Disneyland.

Yeah. This is what fast. Totally. No. You know, when you brought up like validation and stuff, in my head, I'm like, thinking about everything that's wrong with me. Like, the validity, I always feel like I need and I get from men or like the men I choose. And that's where I look for it.

And as I get older, it's like, oh, like, no, first of all. But then I keep seeing it like the men like I date or like whatever it is and it's always there. And everything kind of feels like the axis is spinning around like this other person and what they either give me or tell me or think of me. And just acknowledging that like that's like the least healthy thing, I think. It's very human. Did you have daddy issues? No, no. I actually wasn't going to go there because I think that's so everyone assumes that. But I deal with that in therapy too because I, and I'm going to stop talking about therapy.

No, I was going to thank you for it. Yeah. I think it's the most important thing that people should be like I was going grocery shopping and then I went to therapy. Yeah, yeah. It should normalize. Like it should be so realized as part of a daily routine. But also I think people get really bogged down with the fact that therapy isn't available for everyone. which is very unfortunate and true, but there are... There are other things now.

And I'm not like a walking advertisement for better help or whatever, but like I tried all of the things that, you know... And it's... And I think it's so important, whoever I date is in therapy. Like, that is a... That should be a non-negotiable. It's a non-negotiable because I'm not here to tell you all the things and you're not here to tell me my things, you know.

But yeah, I think that I really relate to that because I think from being so young, I had to be on so much to my parents. And I love my parents very, very much. But they're very, like, goal-oriented. What I achieved was very important to them. Many parents are like this, like wanting you to be a soccer star or whatever. Yeah, sure.

And I think when I first had my first boyfriend, Kyle, my 16-year-old love in my life, was the first time I felt seen. And so I started, like, connecting that validation with, like, feeling home. And on doing that of like it's not about a guy or a person making you feel home, that's something to happen later in life because we don't teach that to kids. We don't teach the like your best friend isn't your home or your, you know, it's supposed to be your parents. Well. I know. But it should be.

Yeah. No, it's so true. But you saying that like the first time feeling Steen, I can relate completely. And home. And home. and like the first guy that like loves me and you know and you're like oh this is the best feeling in the world this is the most comfortable feeling in the world this is what I relate that to or connect I still have it I really do even I watched this beautiful film it was so moving and incredible it was a documentary

called daughters and it was about these daughters it's going to make me cry but it's about these daughters that go in and have a first like a dance with their dads in prison and and It was this heart-wrenching story of these girls growing up without their fathers and how the impact of not being able to touch them or hold them. Oh, my God. I can't. Oh, you need to watch it. Like, I was like, how do I get involved? What do I do?

Where do I go? And they were talking about the impact on a little girl not being able to physically touch her father. I know. I have chills. I can't do that. And I know, I just got chills too. I lost my dad at 15. And I was sitting there being like, oh, my God, I'm never going to touch him again.

I'm never going to hold him. Oh my God. And instantly I went, I have Jeff. I'm okay. I have my husband. Like that instantly took over like I can hold him. I'm okay. Yeah.

And he will hold you. Like he, it feels like that father. It feels like that. And I noticed like, I'm like, is that sick? Like is that codependent? Or are we allowed to deeply crave other humans not to complete us, but like, to hold us, to hold us. You know?

So, but I still have it. Like, I still feel like that in a sense. Yeah. I think that's something that I think I try to pick apart a lot of where that ends and begins. Yeah. Of not relying on someone to feel like home, but also to understand that we as human beings are supposed to have connection. I mean, we're not supposed to be alone. Right.

We're not supposed to live on. this planet by ourselves. And yeah, I've actually never, I've never shared this before, but I feel compelled to, I guess, now. But my dad has been dealing with Alzheimer's for a really long time. And to, and I are like probably the closest of my family. And to have him like sort of over the past 10 years, you know, to the point now where he's not really, there's, is no like physical touch in that way. There is no like home in that way and to like have the, actually the gift of grieving it in a slow process has been really beautiful of like I get to like realize what I love about him and appreciate each thing in these tiny little moments that then

get lost. Yeah. And although it's quite sad, it's so much better of a gift than it happening suddenly. Sure. But I really have to be careful about that when I deal with other people because I feel like I'm losing something. And so I try to make up for it with other people. Like I try to be like, I'm losing this thing. So like I have to, you know, and trying to like differentiate that has been really interesting. Because I can see it. Yeah, you can see the like grabby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. It does. It makes so much sense. Yeah. But I think a lot of people, you know, and it's really interesting when I, when I get really honest about it too, because there's so many people that have gone through this with their parents or grandparents. And it's just so. So. So.

everywhere and it's a baffling disease to witness. But it's, I think, really, really interesting and beautiful to get to see someone still there, but in a different version of themselves. Wow. That's a lot. It is. It's a lot. It is. But it's, I mean, I'm doing the thing again, but I'm like, everyone has something like this. You are doing the thing. You are. It's okay. You're allowed to do the thing. But it is, like, no matter what the effect that has on a family and you as the daughter. And would you have siblings? Yes, I have a half-brother and a half-sister. Yeah, okay. Yeah, got it. On your dad's side. My dad's side. Yeah, my dad was married before. But yeah, I think to your point, too, there's, there's like that need for that, that man's sort of

like safety because I don't have that anymore. And trying to still find that within myself and also find it in like friendships and work relationships and not putting that on a partner either. That's hard. But still navigating the fact that I deserve and want a partner. You know, that's okay. You can make that person your home. Right. You said it perfectly.

It's like really differentiating where that starts and stops. Because that is the hardest part because you're like, I want this. And I want to give myself permission to have it, crave it, but I don't want to be dependent on it, right? Yes, exactly. And I don't want my happiness and well-being to be contingent upon that. Yes, that's the word. Yeah, the contingent of happiness on another person and there. And I think that's what I did with Parachute.

My movie I directed was trying to find that the way of describing that. that feeling and how it goes to the opposite side, where it's like falling in love with someone is so pure and necessary and needed. But then when you take it to the next level where you become addicted to saving each other in a way of not knowing where you and this other person begin and end, that's the codependency angle that I think is really hard to differentiate. And I think a lot of people get very confused. Right. And I know I was. And so confusing. It is confusing. And also so romantic. Because it's like that type of love, but you're like, you know, and all the movies glorify it.

Of course. And growing up watching those things, like, I am such a sucker for all of that stuff. I'm like, I want that movie. I want him to show up at my house fucking blaring music or whatever it is. Because that's how it's supposed to be, you know? But then it's like a fantasy. A lot of it. But it's true.

And I definitely am guilty of, like, finding happiness from what I get from the guy. I'm with, you know? I mean, I say that. pre-kid, you know, because that's like a different thing. And having my daughter, obviously, that fills a lot of things. But I'm still guilty of it, you know? But you're just going through the whole process, like, with your dad, but in a beautiful way where you're like slowly, you know, and just acknowledging as him and the person he is now and like all of it. How old is he? He was old when he had, sorry, dad. He was old when he had me.

So I'm going to be bad at this math, but I think he's 85. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, you know, and I've always known that he was an older, an older dad, but he was like my best friends. Aww. Yeah.

And he's still, I mean, there's still moments where I'm like, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you're in there. It's cool. Are they out here? Are they? They're in Florida. They're in Florida.

Yeah. It is a gift, though, that you see. So because you get that time. Mm-hmm. And that you could grab his hands still. Yep. And like that's the stuff you crave when they're gone. It's just just holding their hand.

Oh, why did we go here? Why did we go? Our goal here is just to make it. Don't come here. You're not safe. No, no, no. It's true. Mm-hmm.

And you have that today. And that's a gift, you know. I'm going to book a play. You're like, I'm going to Florida. No, but, yeah, it's also, like, really interesting because I don't know if you guys deal with this, too, but a big part of my lessons of myself, too, is knowing how to not try to control the trajectory of what happens either and knowing that, like, he gets very sad when I leave because he doesn't understand where I'm going or what's good, you know, thank God he can't know that I'm talking about it. But I, and leaving is really hard. And there's a part of my brain that says you should just stay, like forever. Why would you come back here?

Right. And then the learning and the thing that I need to really wrestle with is like, I still have to come and live my life. He would want me to. He wants, you know, and go back and forth, of course. But that's been really hard for me is to like navigate what is necessary. Yeah. See, it's just that still goes to show like everything, you know, people go through personally and nobody knows you and like things being out there. Like you never really know what a person is going through, you know, or what they deal with. I will say to. I have something like that though, too. And I feel like that. I just did it again. Yeah, I was like, did you just do. I did that. I did the content. Like I did. We're going to say everybody. But I, but I do feel like the more that I talk to people or I open up about this sort of. stuff, I'm hard-pressed to find someone who doesn't have something insane in their life.

Right. And that's why it does feel a little bit complaining to be like, this is what's happening with me because the next person down the street is. No, but it's not. But it's not. It's not. Listen to me right now. Yeah.

It's not that you guys are kidding. It's an intervention. Yeah. It's not complaining because I guarantee you my life. There's someone that will be on the other side of this with tears in their eyes and feel a little bit less alone today because they hurt it. Yeah. And so it's part of the gift of the privilege of having a platform.

And it's not complaining. It's sharing. Like, I'm a part of AA, right? The magic of that program is being in a room with people sharing their experiences. And because of that, you feel a little bit less alone and you feel touched and you feel a little safer. And so you sharing your experience isn't a complete, complete. it's actually a connection. And for people suffering, they need connection.

And so it's not complaining at all. I mean, I think that's what's been really beautiful about all these podcasts and you guys specifically and so many people opening up. And, you know, back when we were growing up, like Julia Roberts was not talking about her day-to-day unless it was on the cover of Vogue. You know, she wasn't talking about what she ate for breakfast.

And so we always sort of had this mentality like, if you're in the entertainment business, you don't share a person or stuff. And so, you know, now Gen Z is just sharing everything. And, you know, it's kind of like over stimulating a little bit, the millennial that I am talking about it. But I do think that there's a lot of good to be found in the fact that that because of social media, there is so much connection and so many people are feeling less alone. And that's the good part of sharing. of it. Right. Definitely. Right.

No, you're absolutely right. And I want to say, too, as a mom and a mom there, I'm sure we would both have the same opinion, is that your highest goal for your child is for them to be the most fulfilled human being they can possibly be, right? And so, like, when you walk away from your dad to come home and live your life, that is one thing. thousand percent, no question what any parent would want. Right. No parent would want you to sit there and suffer with them while they sit.

They've never. No, it's our own like guilt-ridden neuroses of like inner turmoil and bullshit, you know. Yeah. And it's so true because that is the number one thing. Do you guys get scared about your kids being everything? Yeah, yeah. But I mean, because I think I want kids. kids. I don't have any kids yet, but I definitely want kids. And I think to myself, how hard is it to be

in a world where this, the comments, the social media, the trolling? Like, how do you rationalize how you're going to do that? I'm not, I always say, like, when the time comes for my daughter to have a phone of any kind, I'm getting her a dumb phone that does not have any Wi-Fi social media apps, whatever. And I'm sticking to it. And I know it's going to be a fight. I know it's going to be, but my friends and this and that. But whatever I, and it'll still be there and she'll see it. But whatever I can do to not have her be a part of that, I'm going to do everything in my power. That specifically.

Yes. Yeah. I think that your son's a YouTuber. My son wants to be a YouTuber. But I think that, look, I think everything comes down to programming. And I think that children are being programmed by us. That's just what it is, right? So my whole thing is how can I program my children to have a belief system in something that is so much more grounding than any of the falsities.

Yeah. And I think that. Her answer is so much better. No, but that's so hard. How do you do that, though? I mean, that sounds amazing, you know? I think we do our best, you know? Like every day I will be doing something, saying something, letting my child know, he has a choice in his thoughts.

he can choose which thought he buys into, which one are you paying money into, this one or that one. Like, I'm doing my very best to just try and help program them to have a good constitution. And I think that I also think that there's a huge surrender in, they have their own curriculum too. And so for whatever reason their soul chose to come into these bodies at this time, that's all, part of it. Right? Mm-hmm. Like, technology isn't going anywhere. It's increasing. And so it's very clear to me that they probably know something we don't. Like, they're more in tune to what's going on than we are in that sense. So, yeah, I do think that... I mean, my daughter knows how to work my phone better than I do, but... But I'm saying technology is part of their life. So if they're going to be,

if they're going to be alive in this time, they're going to deal with those things. And so it's like, I feel like it's my job to do as much as I possibly can for them to know who they are. There's a whole, like, there's this book called The Anxious Generation that I still have yet to read, but I know. I need that. You're like, wait, it's about me. It makes me anxious. I'm like, oh, my God, I need it right now. But there is like, you know, the phones and the interaction and the studies show that it is worse for,

young girls than boys. Yeah. And her boys. So maybe that's why she's my relationship with it. But I get anxious as thinking, oh my God, like, I have to do this thing or that thing, you know, and there is a lot of anxiety comes with it. But don't worry, you're in therapy. You'll be fine. But I do think that's so, I mean, and that's what I tried to do in Parachute, too, is try to give a lens of like, this is a part of your daily validation system, your reward system now, is looking on the phone for validation of who you are. And if you're young, specifically, also if you have like an eating disorder in any way, that is a huge part of the mechanism of how you're realizing who you are is comparing it to someone else.

Right. A lot of people don't know who they are anymore unless it's in opposition with something. Yeah. Or trying to be like, well, I'm bigger than that or less than that. Or I look like this and they don't. And I think that that's rewiring our brains, unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, it's a part of how we're going to have to teach our kids to know who they are without that barometer of other people. Completely.

But it's so, like, you're doing so much work. It's, you know. Yeah, I think you're ready. You're definitely. I have a few steps to get there. I think it's only one. It only takes one step. We all know how that goes.

But yeah. Remove the goalie. But yeah, but just like, you know, everything and just being really ready and in that space. And I think it's a beautiful thing to like welcome children in when you have, you know, because a lot of it is learning as you go. But if you start from like the foundation that you already have going. Yeah. I wish I could. And my biggest quote that I say all the time is more is caught than taught.

Yeah. And so it's our job to model. what we want to see in them. Right? And so it's like we can't sit there and be like, don't compare yourself to other people. You're enough as you are. And then we're in there hating on ourselves

and doing all these things. So it's so important that we work on our relationship with ourselves first. I'm so worried that I've made my daughter a germaphobe, you guys. Oh, have you? I don't know. Are you a general? I'm a little like I need to wash,

my hands, you know? I think that's good. It's good. Or like, is it too much? Well, my friend told me yesterday that Breyer was saying she had Purell in her backpack for camp, you know, and we try to use the sprays and like, not that stuff. But sometimes, and she's like, no, I have Purell because we're playing softball and my hand is going into a glove that a lot of other people's hands are going in. So I'm really, I need the Purell. And I'm like, oh, my God. That's you. What have I done? That's you. But also, great, you're not going to get sick. You know? You know? Yeah. I mean, I think there's bigger issues, but I am a little worried that I've done that. I think that one might be okay. Okay. Same. But just in this. I just don't want to create,

but you see the anxiety is still there. What am I doing? Am I doing something wrong? Am I not doing it right? Am I creating this thing? Is this going to be that, you know, and there's just this constant of what am I doing? Are you sometimes sort of anxious about about working on yourself because you know it's going to be through osmosis, like, get gone. Get gone, girl. What's the word where you put it on someone else? Projecting? Project onto her. Or is it you're just so focused on her and making sure that she's okay, that it's not really? I'm going to refrain from answering. Why? What were you going to say? I'm what you say. She's asking you. That I just, I don't think I project. Are you going to say I project? Do you see this? I'm like, well, how are you going to answer for me?

No, I don't think you project it. No. Answer. I don't. I'll give my answer after. What was it? Do I what with her? Like are you focused on your, on yourself of being like maybe I should learn from this and not be such a germaphobe because then it will not be projected onto her or are you now just focused on her?

I'm just focused on her. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We have the same answer. But that's what I was just, that's why I was asking is because I feel like I would do the same thing. I would just be like, I'm washing my fucking hand. Totally.

Totally. You know? But like I do want to, and I try to ease up, even if it makes me crazy, like, at an arcade. And if she wants to eat something, I'm like, there's no way you're fucking putting that food in your mouth. You're not washing your hand. But I have to be like, it's fine. It's totally fine. But like dying inside.

Right, right. I would think I would have ended up more like that and I'm not. I know. It's weird. Yeah. Yeah. That's my one thing. She's every other thing.

That's my one thing. What are your other things? I don't know. Fear based with the kids of every. everything. Like the, like, this dark. Dark, if she goes dark. I feel like that's how I'm going to be too.

Mass shootings and like, I get scared of like that kind of stuff. Right. But, you know. To the point of like, oh. I'll be like, I don't think we should go in that big crowd. Like that feels unsafe. Also, I feel sometimes if that's going to navigate the time that you're having and the collective energy of you guys' experience, don't go on the crowd.

I know. That's where I would go with it. I used to get in little tips with somebody that I was with because we had very different parenting styles of our dog. Oh, like, she could just eat whatever, do whatever. And I would be like, but we're going to have to go to the hospital. And then, you know, he was like, oh, it's fine, like, because then she'll learn. I'm like, it's a dog. No, it's different.

She literally won't learn. You're like, that will kill her. I've taken her to the ER twice because she ate something. And one was a bacterial infection and the other one was a bobby pin. And I was like, this could have just been saved. Avoid it. Right. If we just would have.

You know, so I just listened to me. So I think that I'm going to be that type of parent that I'm like, I don't want to be a helicopter parent, but I also know that it's hard. And it's hard. But there's a difference between just like clearly, you know, logical and like the right thing. What would you guys hear in this situation? Because I definitely by no means I'm a helicopter parent at all. However, my kid has a, his leg hurts, okay? And he can't really communicate why his leg hurts because he's got communication issues.

And so I'm like, let's take him to the doctor. My husband is a doctor. So he's like, he doesn't need to go to the doctor. And inside, every day, I'm like, he needs to go to the doctor. needs to go to the doctor. Like, we need an x-ray. Why does his leg hurt? What would you do in this situation?

Wait, that's really specific because your husband's a doctor. I mean... He's not an x-ray. Right, right. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's... But her husband's the doctor that's like,

you're not going to the doctor unless you're literally like... Like, if a limb is falling off, you'd be like, okay, we might want to go. But you're going to find this with most partners. I think it's really hard pressed to find someone that's going to parent like you. Right. Because I've never seen two parents parent the same way of you.

Interesting. Have you seen ever? I have friends that do. Really? It's bizarre. It's like very, very interesting to me. But their parenting style is very different than mine. Right.

Their kids walk on the dining room table. That's mine. Really? The dining room table? Naked. Naked. Yeah, and I'm like, to my friends, I'm like, you don't want to get, he's two.

Like, he's good? Okay, cool. And you're like, oh my God, oh, my God, okay. Mine are like twerking on the dining room table, naked, screaming butthole. And like, you know, it's different. Other people would be like, but, you know. It's hard for me to say because I have one,

and then she's a girl and it's just us, and she's a pretty mellow kid. So it's not like I'm being presented with these kinds of things. She feels the need to, like, be naked to working on a dining room tape. You know what I mean? But who doesn't? I'm sorry. But who shouldn't?

No, but I think that what was I going to say? Oh, in the past, when you've said he should go to the doctor and he says, no, no, no, you were always right. I am always right. Right. I think the lesson here is the woman in the relationship is always right. But if it's going to make him feel better at your son, then that's what I would go with. If he wants to go because he's in pain and it's not really going to be that big of a deal, I would go to the doctor.

Yeah. Also, he doesn't complain about things hurting. Right. It's not a normal, you know. Right. No, his leg hurts. But then my husband's like, I've already done the math. Like, it's not a broken bone.

It would look like this and all that. Anyways. Right. So I relate to parenting dogs different. Right. I relate to that. Yeah. Yeah.

It's tricky because you have to find. Do you find your? going like, I told you so, or do you not say anything? In my head, I do. Right, but not to outwardly. But definitely I was like, hey, yo, we're at the hospital. You know. The chocolate you left on the counter.

Yeah, like the subtle, like. Yeah, I told you so. I try not to be passive aggressive in that way, but he needs to know where we were, you know? Yeah, you're like, I need you to know right now what I am doing. Is the dog okay? Yes, yes, she's fine. She's fine. after like two days at the hospital for the bacterial infection, that was even worse.

How'd she get that? She ate seaweed or something on the beach that was covered in something. Wait, you saw it happen? Like, you saw it. Yeah, and I kept trying to take it out of her mouth. Yeah. He was like, she'll learn. She'll learn.

Fuck around and find out. She's a four-pound dog. She's a four-pound dog. So her learning and our learning are very different. Yeah, you're like, please let me protect. You're like, she will you learn them? Yeah. But yeah, I think I think I'm very open to different parenting skills and styles with a partner because my parents were very, very different.

Yeah. And I do think that that actually, I always say this with religion too. My dad was atheist and my mom was Catholic. And that was really confusing for me. But it was also really nice because I was left to my own devices. Yeah. Like I got to be like, well, I kind of agree with that. And then I also agree with that.

And so that really messed things up in a way where I just found out for myself. Right. And so I feel like with parenting styles, too, sometimes that can be beneficial, although I would imagine for the parents it's probably a pain in the ass. Right. No, but I think there's benefits for sure, you know, or things if you're, like, overly anxious about certain things and they're, like, way more laid back. And then you kind of find yourself in the middle. Yeah, there's usually a good, bad cop.

Yeah. Right? On varying levels. I feel like it's... I don't know. I'm a single mom. So like, you know, I mean, obviously she has a dad who parents and I parent, but it's not like we're in the same household doing it. So I think that's a little different. Yeah. What you say goes. Yeah, totally. That's how I would do it too. You're like, no, it's like single mom mentality, but you can be here too. You can watch. No, but I think what? Oh, what? No, I was just about to say like I'm looking forward to that in whatever. in whatever way that is. It's scary, though, but.

I'm just scary, but you're ready. You feel like... I think I'm, yeah. How old are you? 38. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're great. Yeah. Great. I'm late to the party. It's better to be late to the party. Like, that's what they say, right? It's better than being a lot. A hundred percent. I think it's great. Every time I'm like, if you can parent and have a like, just you've lived life. Like, there are lessons. Like, you are a fully formed human beings. with experience and everything ready to fully settle down and put this kid first.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, but I also think there's something that happens to you around this age where it's like, I think that in the 20s you think you know who you are in a way that really unravels. And then something starts to unravel around mid to late 30s where you're like, Wait, everything I thought is kind of changing. And you're going to be picking a completely different partner to have your children with than you would have picked at 25. Or 30. Or 32.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like that, even in that, it's like a fantastic recipe for choosing a better co-parent. Yeah, definitely. Or being able to just have a baby if you want to have a baby. Yes, exactly. You don't need the... Oh, you don't. You know what I mean?

I mean, whatever it is or however it looks. And I think that's what's been really cool about the past couple years is I have, I thought my life was really laid out in a way. And then it changed. And I'm very, I'm open to that change because it's the way it was supposed to be. So it's very cool and exciting. Yeah, I think it's exciting. Thanks. I'm happy for you.

Thank you. You're welcome. I am. Yeah, I'm happy for you too. Thanks. I don't know. She's like, I'm doing it already. I'm just happy for you in general.

Yeah, but I just think what a beautiful way to just clean slate to like go into another chapter and whatnot. Yeah. Beautiful way. And you're doing beautiful work professionally and internally. Yes. Very inspiring. honestly. And even just like looking at all the things that you're a part of as far as like anti-bullying and you're so, you seem very involved in your own life and others. Not a lot of people are. They're like, whatever, you know, like you're very.

We're just such a genuinely kind person. I'm going to come here all the time. Yeah. Like have you guys tell me great things. Well, then you're pretty like people like you. Yeah. No, it's true though. You're just a really kind, beautiful person. Thanks, guys. You're trying. I try. You don't have to try, though. You know what I know?

That is true. That is true. I do. But I think with all these things that have happened in the past couple years, too, I've, I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that I've really honed in on who I am and the kind of person that I am and then just like maintained that. And it really solidified like, okay, I know who I am now. Yeah. You know who you are and you know. the partner you want, you know what I mean?

Because that always comes along with all the other stuff. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And career-wise, what is your biggest, what, like, is guiding you the most? Is it the directing? Is it the acting?

Is it writing? What is your biggest North Star right now? Probably it just kind of depends on what it is about. I think that because I see. because I have done some things and I've been on both sides now, it really has to come down to like, what am I going to wake up every morning and feel so inspired and passionate to do? And it's not worth it to me if I'm half-assing it, you know, because I am so grateful and so lucky that I get to do this, but I have to give it my all night. I want a life that doesn't always

have to do with this industry. And so if I'm going to put any energy towards anything, it better be something I'm super passionate about. So that is directing and writing and definitely acting. But yeah, I turned down. Is your career? Is it at the North Star? Or is it more, you know, the personal life and the kids? This is us. Yeah. She's career and I'm personal life. Yeah. Is it not funny? I'm like, what is it the career? And she's like, but what does it look like? I think it's definitely both because something that I really loved about where my parents, did with me was, you know, they were very career and achievement oriented, but also they were superstars in their career. And I looked up to them so much. And they were the top of whatever they were

doing. And I think that that's really been instilled in me for good or bad, I guess. And so it's always been a huge source of happiness for me, which is, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to learn, and I'm going to do it well. And so I find a lot of, like, kismet. sort of happiness in connection with that. Yeah. But I also do think, like I was, I was hanging out with somebody the other day and their parents asked me, what are your hobbies? And, you know, the child actor in me is like singing, dancing, accents, solar bleeding. And like, and then I was like, no, I have hobbies now because I do think it's really important to have a life outside of this one tunnel-focused career goal that sort of gives color to, you know, gives color to, you

the stuff in your career, you know. But what are they? Wait, but I'm like, it was someone's parents asking you? I'm like, whose house were you at? We're not going to go that. We're not going to go that. Yeah, yeah. We're not going to get that.

That kind of parent. In my mind, I'm like, your friend. I'm like, what friend's house? Yeah, yeah. And I was like, oh my God, this is. I was like sweating. I was like, oh, my God. You're like high school.

Yeah. No, but I think that my, I mean, I got really into like cooking and things like that. and like getting really into writing and reading and movies. And I was like, if I'm going to be a director, I'm going to synify all this up. And reading a lot about making movies and direction and color and editing and things like that. And although those aren't really hobbies, I do find like they take up a piece of my brain that makes me feel separate from the achievement of somewhere. Yeah.

I find it fascinating and I don't have to like get anything. thing when I'm watching a movie or learning something or cooking something. Right. Yeah. You seem like you're in such a good place. Well, that's good because two years ago when you asked me to be on this podcast, I was not. Well, like you said, timing is everything. Yeah, timing is everything.

I was like, looking at my phone like, you can't go on her podcast. Oh, my God. You weren't supposed to. You were supposed to. You did to cocoon and go inside for a minute. You had stuff. You know? Yeah, yeah.

It happens. Life happens. Yeah. Thanks for waiting for me. I love her dearly. Me too. Yeah. I just had to say that.

I know. It was hard not to, I don't know. Not to kiss her? What are you going to say? Always. It was so hard not to kiss her. It was hard not to just, like, keep her forever. Yeah.

Just, like, cuddle her up and put in your pocket. No, I mean, like, just keep, yes. Yes. Yes. Do you know I have had this thought, like, how nice it would be. if I could literally fit in a pocket. No, just stay with me here. Like, actually, like, be in a pocket, like, all cozy in a little space that's, like, enclosed and, like, you're just there.

And I wonder if that has to do with my anxiety. Probably. Well, that's also why you, like, the weighted blanket. I don't love a weighted blanket. You did. For, like, a minute. You were trying to hype it hard. You know what I really love?

it that I've never had. An uiler? A what? An uiler? I was going to say, a good relationship. All three of our oldest are outside that window. My oldest and one only.

But your oldest? My oldest. Ist. My oldest is? Yeah. What if those three start their own podcast? That's amazing. when they grow up.

That's so cute. That would be cute. Okay, so what have you always wanted and never had? Oh, a bed? Or, like, it has curtains. Oh, a canopy bed. But I don't really want a canopy bed. I'm more like a bed.

Rob, more like a bed that's, like, built into the wall. You know, it's like your own little cave and you can have curtains and close it. Oh, that you mean. Like an enclave for the kids. Like a Murphy bed. I want it. That you can put up when you're done. Rob.

I want that. I want an enclave bed. I don't know if it's a... That does sound cozy. Like the coziest, right? And you have shelves with your little books on it and a little lamp in there. Yeah. And then the curtain closes.

It's so built in, though, that... I like the built-in. I like being able to rearrange rooms. I know, but, like, if you had a little, like, cuvary-knuck situation, the curtains, you know how dark it would be? Do you know how good you would sleep? I'm not at this, I do you guys need blackout curtains? Do you need blackout to sleep well?

But, uh, question. Yes. But then I could never sleep on the inside of your enclave bed. That gives me massive anxiety of, like, having you bed up and go pee. Totally feel you on that. Okay, let's rethink it. You build something, so it's not a canopy bag, because I don't necessarily want a four-post canopy bed.

But if we go higher with it, there's slides out on each side, so you've got to get up and close the bathroom, you can just slide out. No, but if you build it in the different way, I know, we're going to work on it. We're wood-dropping it so that your head. The bed goes the other way. That's what I'm saying. And your feet are at the end where the curtains are. And then you have a remote that shuts the curtains so you don't have to move.

Wait, so are the curtains cutting the bed in like half? So part of you is sticking out. No. Oh, my gosh. That is the most vulnerable thought of like not being able to see your own feet. Oh, vulnerable. Do you guys, when you see people eating by themselves, I know we've talked about them. Where is?

We have. No. Like, I know. We've talked about it, but like a person. I'm going to start crying right now. So we did a three Michelin Star restaurant in Chicago when we went. It's like a 12 or 13 course meal, and there were two people that night that did it by themselves. That doesn't make me feel bad because that's like a course meal.

It's a Michelin restaurant and like that's a thing. You mean like a person. They set out and intended to be that thing. So you're like in like a food court. They're eating like auntieans. Or like at the ice cream store and the person sitting on the stool and like, you know, and they were happy. It has nothing to do with them.

Like, they're perfectly fine. But for some reason, how do you feel when you eat alone? I don't care. What? Let's see if you connects to this. I don't feel bad. Like, I like to.

I don't you my fuck. But you go eat. But I'm crying over the fact. Yeah, but I'm crying over someone else doing it. But what does it mean? You know, because they were happy to do it. They're fine. But, like, for some reason, it does something too.

my insides. I know we've talked about this before. It's because you go back to the memory of the kid eating the white bread sandwich with her red nails. Yeah. With the kitty litter in it. Rob. Rob. What that, was that Little Rascals? I don't know. I don't even know. But do you go eat in restaurants by yourself? I have and I do and I like to. I don't do it often, but I would. Yeah. I really like it. I like doing things by myself. Yeah. Okay. I was thinking, I'd like to take a trip by myself. Would you like to do this podcast by yourself right now? She's in her goth phase right now.

I'm not, in my goth phase. Oh, I was like, I don't even get what that means. The hair, the jean jacket, the black hat. You're wearing all black right now. It is not goth. You're wearing all black. It might be a little garth. She's in her garth face.

It is a little bit goth. It's giving garth. It is not goth. You're wearing all black. I'm wearing a black jumpsuit, first of all, and a jean jacket. With dyed black hair. Oh, my lanta. My hair is not black.

It's also not dyed black. It's naturally black. Her natural hair color is dark. I have very dark brown hair. My hair is not black. Rob. Didn't you ever see the OC? No.

He only was looking at Marissa. I lied about it the whole time. She had dark hair She's going back to her summer roots I'm naturally dark Naturally dark I personally Think it hits

Really hard I didn't say it was a bad thing I don't know why you both went negative When I said it Because you automatically were like black hair Goth like I feel like that You're putting her in a box What color hair

Does a goth person have Typically Maybe dark purple Maybe Okay She also has zero makeup on. I know.

No, I don't mean it like that. I mean, that's very anti-goth. Like, fresh face. Whatever. You know what I mean? Those are the ones that feel a little bit anti-goth. I didn't mean it as a bad thing. I didn't mean it as a bad thing.

And you were just like, there's no way I'm talking about. No, I'm more like you saying that I have black hair. Okay. But like, I only say that because, like, I have dark brunette hair and I didn't dye my hair black. I have. And that's nice. And I like it. You didn't dye your hair at all right now?

She went back to her original color. How? Through fucking... Dying it? No. Through what? I'm sincerely... You've never messaged your hair to do something different?

I'm sincerely asking. I'm confused. I'm always confused. I'm confused. Did you not your hair dyed at all? Yes, she dyed it back to her original color that matches her roots. Okay, but it was dyed, right? Yes, but it wasn't dyed black to go Garth.

I mean... It is dyed what? It was, yes, I got my hair colored. Okay, and why are you acting like I'm insane? Because you're calling me Godf. Goodness gracious. Anyways, something. It's something I found on Instagram.

Fantastic. I scared to share. Okay, old phrases we still use today and where they originated from. Oh, yeah. In the 18th century, hat makers used a toxic substance to create the felt used to make the hats.

This substance would cause mood swings, loss of coordination, memory loss, and even paranoia. Hence the saying, mad as a hatter. You didn't know that, did you? If you attended a carnival and played a game to win a prize as an adult,

you would try to aim for the top prize, which was a cigar. But if you did not get to this prize, you quite literally got no cigar. Close but no cigar. You got close but no cigar. Sorry, I went so fast. Hey, I never...

Yeah, but I never know where that came from, did you? Back when the pirates roamed the seas, they quite often got very drunk on board and would go beneath deck to rest if they felt ill. When they did this, they were under the weather. Oh, because they're under the weather. I knew she'd appreciate it. these.

Deeply. That one went too fast. All right. There are a couple more. You want me to do the other one? I like that. I'm great. I'm sorry.

I think it's fascinating. Right? Yeah. Under the weather. Right? Thank you, Olivia. You're welcome. During times when football was on the radio, before televisions were a thing,

the pitch was divided up so it can be followed easier by the listener. If the ball was back in the goalkeeper's box, you would hear back to square one. Ah, because they would literally go back to square one. Rob, I thought you'd like that one. I love that one. Did you know that? No, I didn't. Okay, there's one more, guys.

Back when newspapers were written with typewriters, each letter was called a sort. And when you run out of letter type, you quite literally run out of sorts. Never heard that expression. You're like out of sorts. Oh, I'm out of sorts. Oh, yeah.

Oh, wait, there's one other one. Don't worry, Rob. Me? I'm out of sorts. In ancient India, there was a religious act to throw butterballs at the statues of their gods to seek favor and forgiveness. Hence the saying, butter someone up. Oh. I mean, I got to fact check these, but like, are you going to check?

Yeah. Where? When? When? Do you guys use CHAP-G-T for things? I do not. You don't. I have seen it in action.

Jeff uses it constantly. So when I ask questions, he'll be like, let's see. So you use that through Jeff. Yeah, this is true. It's an ancient 18th century comes from an ancient Hindu tradition of throwing balls of ghee butter at statues of gods in order to ask for favors. A fact check that one, so they're all true. Would it be weird if I started throwing butter balls at you at long things? Just trying to butter you up, Rachel.

That'd be amazing. I always thought buttering you up meant like fattening you up. you know I don't think I've really thought about what it meant butter someone up you thought it meant fattening someone up yeah you didn't know to butter them up was to like grease a wheel no I know what it

I thought like the term came from like oh oh Lordy no no oh my God that would be amazing if I was just like but I thought it meant oh I I remember the other thing I wanted to bring up to you guys. I'm really like slow on the, you know, watch things that people are watching. American Nightmare? Is that the one?

With the kidnapping? Yes. I finally watched that. Did you watch that? Was that the one with like the, they like let the guy come live with them? No. They said the girl was like reenacting like gone girl. Like she faked the kid.

They made it seem like she faked for a wrong thing. That was unhinged. Oh my God. Yeah, that was nuts. That was. nuts. I watched a really cookey one that really

screwed me up. What? I think it was called like, like lover, stalker murder. Oh, I think I saw that. Oh, my God. It's so unhinged.

It's so unhinged. Like, you're like, wow. It's like that thing, that meme on Instagram, it's like, I cannot watch a movie where a dog dies, but.

To put myself to sleep, I watch murder, like, documentaries and people or whatever. I don't forget the meme exactly. Someone called. Wasn't that so crazy? The American nightmare? It was, it was so messed up, like, in so many ways. I can't even. And the guy looked like just like a normal dude that you would.

Oh, my God. Totally normal dude. Like, normal. Yeah. It was weird because he had, like, this weird, like. this weird like I anyway sorry Rob what did you see

do you see long legs no isn't that about a serial killer? Great documentary about a satanic serial killer right serial killer long like I thought it was a movie it is oh you're fucking with us all of these families the father goes crazy and kills the family and then himself

and they find out that like the daughters were all born on the 14th of the month I was born on the 14th. Were you? Yeah. This doesn't feel good. Should we watch it?

It's good. It's fun. Nick Cage's in it. He looks insane in it. Like they made him look androgynous. Seems so hard. Like he had all these botched plastic surgeries because he wanted to look perfect for the devil. Oh my good God.

Yeah. Oh, God. What is with people? It's a movie. He didn't really. Did you watch Dance with the Devil? Not yet. Did you watch Dance With the Devil?

No, what's that? Did you watch that? It's about like this TikTok. Late TikTok show. I saw that too. You know what I heard it was good? The Dallas cheerleaders one. One.

Yeah, I want to watch it. Me too. Wait, wait, wait. Dance with the devil is a... Oh, it's about like a TikTok or something. It's about TikTok. They're dancers on... Oh.

No, I did not watch that. The way you said it, I was like, that's so weird that he wants to watch that. Late Night with the Devil was what I thought you were talking about. You know, do you ever judge Natalie for what she watches? All the time. Oh, you do? Really? Where does she watch that you judge?

I mean, I don't judge it in necessarily a bad way. Like, there's TV you watch as just like a comfort and... Like what? I know we've talked about this, but I can't remember. She watches Roswell and Gilmore Girls again, and she watches a lot of those on repeat. It's so surprising to me. Mm-hmm. She watches a lot of what?

Them on repeat. Like, she'll watch Buffy over again. But you don't get irritated. No, I don't care. Do you ever judge Jeff for what he watches? I don't judge him, but I leave the room. Yeah, I mean, she'll turn it off because I don't want to sit and watch Gilmore. girls.

Yeah. Before bed. But I feel like he gets disappointed when he sees what I'm watching. Hmm. You know? Versus when he's watching, he watches a lot of like action. Bores me to tears. Like I will never sit down and watch an action film.

He's just watching Lethal Eppin over and over, I guess. He would, he'd watch it. But also like all the Marvel movies, all the movies, anything with like action, you know? And I'm watching weird stuff and he... So you feel judged by him, but you don't judge him? Correct. Correct. Is there a crossover at some point?

Yes, stand-up comedy and then like political shows. Like we watch The Daily Show together and Bill Maher and the news and stand-up comedy. Fox News. We watch all the news. We really do. I watched my lady Jane. I hate watching the news. I don't know.

They were at my parents. They had it on all the time. It was just always on the TV. I know. It was so depressing. Yeah, I don't know. I'm on the news. Why is this on all the time?

We would rather watch like the, you know, political shows, like the comedy ones. And at least we're getting a little information. Right. You know? Yeah, we like all that stuff, all of it. Okay, I watch nothing. You guys ready for your options? I found my husband sexting someone.

else is sexting cheating. Yikes. I went through my girlfriend's phone. What do I do? I am uncomfortable continuing my relationship with my girlfriend after she slept with her current best friend just before we became exclusive multiple times. Let's see that one. I'm in a relationship with someone who was sexually active with her male best friend during the same two months. I was also involved with her sexually and emotionally. I've always been doubtful about her. having many male friends, but she insisted I keep an open mind, which I did. However, this situation has been the last straw for me. Her sexual involvement with her male best friend during the same time we were together, despite her reassurance about how special our connection was has made me question

everything and I feel deeply uncomfortable. Despite her telling me that she never felt this way towards anyone before, it's become clear that my feelings of something special might not have been as unique as I thought. She still hangs out with this friend, both online and offline, which is making me uncomfortable in questioning the authenticity of our relationship. It is so far right that she didn't do anything with anyone during the relationship. But still it stings, I'm willing to communicate with her, but do you think it's logical and understandable that I feel so turned off by her now? Additional notes, I'm hurt by her lying more than anything. She told me I was the only one whom she was involved with at the time. That's hard. Have you ever had sex with your

best friend. Not me. Have I? No. No. Who is your male best friend? I don't know. I never have either.

I think that... I'm both your male best friend. Yeah. We've never had sex with me. Definitely not had sex. Here's the thing. I feel like I understand his feelings on that. One, she lied.

That's the part that's shitty. Also, like, just knowing if it's like a quote-unquote best friend, but you've been. intimate like that. It just adds this other thing. Yeah. And I'm fine with being friends with exes. Like, yeah. But that's different than being your best

friend that you also have sex with. Yeah. That's not the same. Well, it sounds like a semi-fresh relationship. And she lied. Yeah, the lying is really the... Which would make me feel like he feels... I mean, she probably didn't want to hurt his

feelings and probably didn't want to... sacrifice the relationship with her best friend. Not to justify it, but I'm just saying as an explanation. Yeah, it's not a good but think about it if you met a guy

and you were like dating him and he's like, and here's my best friend and you're like, oh, hi, I'm getting to know your best friend. I'm Olivia. I'm so nice to meet you. And I also have sex with her. Yeah. Well, I don't think they're actively having sex.

They had sex at one point. Well, there wasn't overlap. Yeah, yeah. It was an overlap. that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's hard. That was very hard.

That's a no for me. I think is the question, though, if their ex is their best friend, are you okay with that? Or it's just the overlap that makes it uncomfortable for you? If it was, like, years way back, that'd be different. Yeah.

Yeah. And it was just platonic, like, like nothing. No, like, dabbling, no revisits, you know. Correct. Yeah. What if there were revisits? Like every couple of years they did. Yeah, that's a no for me.

That's not a best friend. That's more than a friend. That's just a funny that you've had along for a little while. That's more than a friend. Yeah. That's definitely more than a friend. Yeah. Like if you accidentally slept with your best friend and that was...

Accidentally. I mean, look it. Doesn't that... I mean, people accidentally do stuff once. Right? Right? I mean, I dated someone that still lived with his ex-girlfriend. Yes, you did.

And even still shared a bed with their ex-girlfriend. But they were, like, strictly platonic at this point. How long did you date while that was happening? Well, I think things changed because they started dating me. But I do believe that can happen because I think there's, there's certain relationships when it's over, it's over. And that people, you know. Yeah.

Like, I didn't. I don't, I don't, I don't think for a second there was anything shady in that situation. No, me either. That's why I was like, I mean, it's weird. And like, if we're going to, like, really date, I don't want you, you know, sharing a bed with someone. But, like, I never felt weird about it.

Like, in that way. I didn't either. No, not at all. All right, guys. This was fun. Thanks. Love you, Brittany. Goodbye, everybody. Thank you. And good night.

That was a hate gum podcast.