Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Charity Rose Thielen

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

Rachel and Olivia welcome fellow mom and singer of The Head and The Heart band, Charity Rose Thielen. The three broads have a heartfelt and authentic conversation about all things motherhood, including breastfeeding stigmas, the value in taking care of yourself, postpartum depression and pregnancy isolation and more! Rachel explains her experience with post-puppy-partum depression and Charity shares what it’s like to be in a band with her husband and tour with her daughter. Enjoy!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Hi, guys. Hi. Hello. So, you know, Snobbi Robbie has really good taste in music. True. Hence his nickname. And he has actually, well, I've known quite a few of the bands that you bring up, but there's some that I don't know, and they're all very good.

So we can trust Rob's taste in music and food. Those two hands down. That's it though. But that's it. That's where we draw the line. I mean, that's it. That's all we get. But I was really looking forward to speaking with our guests today.

One, the band is awesome. One of the singers from Head in the Heart, who she's fucking phenomenal, Charity Rose Thielen, is joining us today. And not only is she an amazing musician and performer. She's also a mother. A new mother. On tour. On tour, which just is mind-blowing.

Yep, she had a day off on a two-month tour and decided to come spend it at your house. And I wasn't there. Yeah. But yeah, head in the heart, their new album, Every Shade of Blue is out now. And it's awesome. And I wish I could have gone to the concert.

It was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. We went. Calvin went. We had a lot of fun. fun without you. At the end of the concert, Calvin was like weekend at Bernie's. Rob was like holding him up. Calvin is Rob's five-year-old son. Yeah, he's been on the show. Yeah, he made it till the end.

But at the end, it was getting a little hairy where, yeah, like 10.45. It's like holding his eyes open. He got a second win though. Yeah. After we found those Twizzlers. Yep. Those were red vines. There's a big difference between red vines and. Twizzlers. Huge difference. Well, they weren't packaged and I only had one. And you should know that when it hit your mouth It was in the lounge, like the backstage

They had like little cones of candy for people to take. I was going to say you went to a public concert and they had a free for all to grab your Twizzler or Red Vine out of a bucket and I thought that was disgusting. You think Snobby Rob isn't sitting backstage eating Twizzlers?

But it's Red Vine. It's a red lens. There's a difference. Huge difference. Let's welcome charity. Sometimes when the work inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride.

We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampons. We'll talk about boys that I make you about death Because people die Okay, I'm just going to go You're going to turn it down It gets hot in that room

I know, you're in my house And I'm in Canada I know, I know I was going to make mention of that initially because obviously It's unique to be To be in your own But you're not here

You're sitting in my home Well, I'm happier in my home Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Oh, we're so happy. This is a treat. This will just be, you know, It worked out perfect. I know because you played the Greek last night, right?

Yeah. Yeah, these guys came. I know. I'm so bummed that I missed it. It was so great. I mean, they said nothing. Well, not Rob. I haven't talked to him.

I don't talk to Rob, but Olivia was braving. He's a hard critic. Amazing. And Olivia, yeah, I was talking to her when she was driving over to the house and she was just going on and on and on about how amazing it was and how amazing you are. And I think that. I'm just so bummed. I missed it. I know. I know. So you're in Toronto area right now?

I am. I'm in Toronto. Congrats on, you know, getting a job up there. Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm doing a show. It's just one. It's an anthology. It's one. It's one. It's just one. I'm almost done with the show. But unfortunately, timing-wise, I'm not there. Yeah. Yeah.

But, yeah, like I said, we're just so happy that you are here in talking to us. Thank you so much. I actually, I don't know if you remember this, but you guys were on a show I was on called Heart of Dixie. Oh, yeah. Like actually on the show? Yeah. Yeah, we were like actually performing. We were being ourselves.

Yeah, you were being ourselves. They came and played at the Rammer Jammer, which was Wade's bar restaurant. And we started having some, yeah, musical groups on the show. And you guys came out. I was like 2013 or something. It was a long time ago. So long ago. That's right.

I think that was our first like TV, not other than late night, but, you know, like actual TV show that we were doing. Do you remember it at all? Yes. So interesting being on the lot. And yeah, that was hilarious. Just the makeshift saloon kind of vibe, right? Yeah, yeah. It was all on the Warner Brothers, yeah.

And I think we performed shake. Yeah, I think that's right. Our song Shake off our second album. Yeah, and you had a scene. You were in the scene. in front of you guys performing. I wonder, I mean, we must have met, right? Like, I would assume so.

I would assume so. I have to tell you. But it's so long ago. It's so long ago, number one. Number two, I have the world's worst memory. Rob was mentioning that. I do. It's also, I mean, listen, it has to do with, yes, a lot of pot in my day, but also a horrific

like car accident, like head injuries. So I have legit reason. So anytime if I seem rude, it's literally like I just can't remember. But. Good excuse. Rachel. Yeah. I mean, like a windshield in my head.

Well, you know what? I was actually just recounting this similar. It involves pot and a head trauma. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah, and it was in our early touring days. And I just was literally recounting this with the opening band who were out with us, Daws, who are from L.A.,

and they're amazing. And Griff and the drummer's wife had fallen like the night before, had taken too much tincture. I hope it's okay that I'm sharing this. But, you know, and so then that just made me think of, well, I wonder if I have memory loss because of this head trauma than I had. But anyway, we were like, it's funny too. So I'm the only girl in our band.

And I feel like I'm pretty, I've been pretty tame in terms of like rock and roll stories. But I always seemingly have some of the most intense from the group. And anyway, it was like 2011. We had been a band a couple of years. We were touring in a van on our way to Tell You Ride Bluegrass Festival. And it was like 22-hour drive from wherever we were coming. And I had taken some tincture. What was the tincture of?

T-H-C. Oh, okay. And I had never really gotten high at this point. And one of the dudes, like our big, tall, kind of Gaston drummer, He's like, take, you know, just one full dropper of it. And I'd already taken, like, one and a half prior to that. And so then I took another one, like, just right after that. And I started kind of hallucinating a little bit.

And we went, we had a rest stop. So when you're a band in a van and you're touring and you go to rest up, you know, every couple hours, you just take advantage of the restroom. And so I got out and I went to get watered. And then I started getting really dizzy, not realizing what. was happening just so naive, so naive. And there happened to be this bar stool next to the candy aisle. This is Salinas, Kansas, and a gas station.

And I ran into our piano player. And I said, you know, like, I'm not feeling well. And he said, here, here's this tall bar stool just sit on this. And I'm like, next thing you know, I fell back, started seizuring. He was in like a pool of blood. What? Everyone in the band was basically high, like, losing their mind. They were like, get rid of all the weed, you know.

And I mean, and they walked in. And so they were paranoid. They're like, you know, just freaking out thinking that, you know, it was incredibly serious. I was fine, but, you know, like, we went. So I was rushed to the E.E.R. And it was okay. Had stitches. Cheemone.

And then got back in the van, proceeded to drive 15 hours to play a morning set at this festival. And I had this mat of like blood put on a dress and performed a whole set. Are you kidding me? At that elevation too? It was really funny. Were you puking and stuff? Like, were you concussed? Did you have an actual? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's frightening. Yeah. Yes. Has that happened since? Like, has anything. No, I've never seizures. Okay. Yeah. Oh my God. So it was just. But that's so interesting that that. I mean, I do have slight kind of, I have poor memory around that time too. That's crazy. But I've always, I just haven't reflected like, is it because of that head trauma? Like, what has affected my life because of that in memory. So. So. So is it like short-term memory? Like, you know what you mean? Short-term-remembery loss. Short-term-remembery. I think it's more, I think it's longer term.

Yeah. How about for you? I don't, what is mine? I don't remember. She can remember things, all things from before the accident. So really far back, like down to what someone was wearing and the song and the jingle and all of that. But then she can't remember what we talked about. yesterday. So it is more short term. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. But what was I going to just

I was going to ask about the tincture? I've never taken t-c tinctured. Like, I'm surprised that I haven't because I feel like I've experienced a lot of things I have to do with THC. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I had, I don't know if I've ever heard of that. It was like pure. And I think, you know, in those days, we were like, people would host us. We'd sleep on floors. You know, it was like, very gritty coming up as a band. But there's this wonderful couple, and she, like, owned a, like, weed bakery in Boulder or something. And so she sent us with all of this amazing stuff.

But, you know, and to accompany, like, the long drives. And I was so, so green that it took way too much. But that happens. It's very pure, you know, I guess. It was great stuff. Oh, my God. Yeah. I remember, like, right after my accident, because I had just had the head trauma, I was really

into, like, a bong phase. And like I thought four foot bongs were like how you should smoke pot. I'm 5'2. So it was basically the same height. I'm 5'3, yeah. Okay, so you get it. And I just remember ripping like a four foot bong. And like I was at my boyfriend's like friend's house who I didn't know, you know,

like baseball players like cute. And I was like. And I hit this whole bong and I stood up and I just passed out. Like I fell over. I was so embarrassed after though because they were, it was like the first time meeting like the boyfriend's like cool friends. you know? Oh, that's embarrassing.

That you faint. But it was also like maybe you had a head injury, you shouldn't be smoking pot out of a four footbong. I mean, just, you know. Head injuries are scary. My son, my husband, my son just had one. And they're like, once you get. What?

It's not. It's funny how it happened. He came home from school and he was like out of it. And we were like, what is going on? And he basically said he fell. And I'm like, okay. And then I'm like, how? And he was like not making any sense.

And my husband's a doctor. So I was like, you need to get home now. And he tested him. And he's like, he's got a concussion. Could not remember how he fell in class. The teacher didn't know. Yeah, none of it. He was projectile vomiting, like the whole thing.

And then it took how many days? It took like five. A week. I mean, it was a long time. It took a week. And then he's like, for him to recount? for him to recount. And what happened was he was sitting on his chair in class.

And he's like, I put my legs and my arms in my shirt to be a rock. Right? As one does. He was just being a rock. He was just being a rock in class. And he fell off his chair and his head caught the fall. But they said at the hospital, like, once you have one brain injury, you're more susceptible. Susceptible.

Another interesting thing I just learned is Jeff, my husband, was researching something about functional medicine, and he was like, oh, wow, this is very interesting. You're a mom. There is actually something that happens in the brain when we have children that creates gray matter. Yes. Yeah. I have always heard of mom brain or like baby brain and all of that stuff. It's an actual medical term. It's an actual medical.

Yeah, it creates great matter in your brain. Like you literally lose your memory. And why is that? Yeah. My brain has had 10 children. I didn't get that part too. I just went, see? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Validation is a back. Exactly. I get. It's so real, though. It's so true. And like I said, yeah, it's like how many kids have I had? You know, the amount. It's so crazy how much your brain changes.

And you have a very young child. right? Yeah. 18 months? She's, yeah, 19 months. She came out on stage last night. Yeah, she did. Yeah.

What's her name? Frances. Francis. I love that name. That is so cute. She's the best. Oh, my God. Yeah, you guys, how old are your kids?

Because her daughter, Briar's. Breyer, let's week. She's seven. Briar Rose. Briar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, your charity rose.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, she's seven. Sleeping Beauty reference, right? Yeah, it is. It wasn't like intentional like that was, but yes, it is. I mean, it was intentional, but it wasn't, anyway. It was always going to be Rose in the middle because of her dad's grandma, but then it just kind of came together.

But yes, and her, she has two little. I like that you're answering for me and I'm answering for you, but she has a three-year-old and a six-year-old. Three and six? Yeah. Okay. And how old was he when he had his head? It was just recently. It was recently.

Yeah. Yeah, it was in the garden. I'm only laughing because my favorite thing was her calling me and being like, he was being a rock. I was like, what? I mean, that is a really brilliant. Yeah. It was just a matter of fact, like I was being a rock and then. Okay.

We were talking about this this morning. Like, what is that like? I mean, I'm going to let you guys talk because I have a lot of questions. on just what I saw last night. But one of the things Rachel and I were talking about was like, what is that like to be on tour with the baby? Yeah. And it's so recent for us because the pandemic,

we were not working. You know, live events weren't happening. And, you know, I mean, most of us in entertainment were kind of having to stop. And so really our first tour started this spring. So this is Lake 2 and we have a couple of shows left. after last night in L.A. And so she's been out for a total of, I guess, maybe two months,

broken up into two legs. But she's incredible. I think because she's so young, we're kind of like, you know, guiding her to this type of schedule. She's staying up like until maybe 11 to watch our shows. You know, but then she's sleeping in too with us. Right. And the bus, you know, is moving. And so it kind of is like a lolling type of sensory thing for her, I think.

Yeah. It's really freakish though when we're still moving and she wakes up. And it's like, oh my God. Speaking of head injuries, like every, you know, like every bump, every turn is like frightening. Yeah, that age, that age, right? Yeah. Oh, my. Yeah.

Does she co-s sleep? This is how you know your mom. You go to a concert and you see this like kick-ass performance. You're like, I wonder if the baby co-s sleeps. I wonder if there's a bit. It's like those in the lessons I like. This is so, this is actually incredible because I felt so isolated in pregnancy and in early on just because of the pandemic, you know. And I'm like pretty introverted and private and stuff.

But yeah, it's like, yeah, I co-sleep with her, you know. I still do. I still nurse. Yeah. I just stopped. My son's three. Really? Yeah.

And I'm sad. I wish I could keep doing it. Breyer was on the boob till she was three. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Oh, we love that. De-stigmatized.

Well, no, it's so true, you know, because it is. It was totally destigmatizing it because, like, there's such a thing with it. And I just had this conversation at work up here. And I was talking, I had only male co-stars and talking to them about it. And I was like, yeah, she was three. And I'm expecting some kind of, like, crazy reaction, you know, that you feel like there's such a thing attached to it. And like, no, let's normalize this because, first of all, it's not fucking weird.

It's good for the kids. And, like, it's not. a big deal. You know what I mean? Like it's such a connection and and there's so many positives and it's just really annoying that society has put this thing on breastfeeding. Completely. We actually, we had friends come out to the Santa Barbara show and she's a goddess. She has 11 children. What? And you guys would like be besties with her. She's, she's amazing. Eleven children. Holy fuck. Just had twins like three months ago. But anyway, her heart. I think he's, probably 10 or 11 now.

She was saying, because I was asking her about how long did you breastfeed with all of these children. How did you navigate that? And she said, well, Johnny, I breastfed him the longest till three. And he's like the only one that doesn't get sick in their household. Oh, interesting. You know, because of how incredible it is for their immunity, the longer, you know, you continue with it. So maybe that's why, like, my daughter only had COVID for like one day and it was just a fever. I'm like, that's right. What's our excuse? That's amazing.

We used to, so when we had, when she had Breyer, I had Elliot when Breyer was how old? A year. They're one year apart. Oh, yeah. They're one year apart. So we would always be breastfeeding together. And Elliot used to go for her when Rachel would have her boom out for Breyer. Elliot would get like literally right up to it.

And I'd be like, Rachel, just don't move. Just let him do it. Just let him do it. I know. She was like dry. I was like, no. No. Yeah, but you'd stay still.

And right when he'd get to it, he'd turn his head, though, and come back to me. Oh, you can realize the stuff. Yeah. It's probably like a scent or something. But I heard Selma Hayek did that once. Like, they were at like an orphanage and she just took a baby and put it on her breast. And I was like, fuck, yes. Was she lactating? Yeah.

Oh, wow. You're like, no, she just put the kid on her breast. Well, I mean, you can bring your milk back in, though. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're like, this is just how Selma Hyac, like, introduces herself to people. I mean, if I was her, I would. I mean, it's soothing to the milk.

Yeah, no, I think it was like they were like hungry and she was, she had been breastfeeding and her kid and she just took it. And I was like, that's beautiful. That is so beautiful. Societally against stigma, you know. Of course. But that is, that is so beautiful. It's the most nutritious, natural, animalistic.

For sure. I mean, you know, it's just, it's just when we started labeling things. and kind of structuring. And isn't that weird? Like, oh, it's weird to drink another human's milk that's not your human, but go ahead and drink that cow's milk? Yeah. Like, that's not weird.

I thought you were going to talk about swallowing other things from a lot of different people. And I was like, well, there's that too. Oh, Rachel Sarah Bilsson, that is not where I was going at all you love. You love it. No, someone was just talking, though, about cows milk and all other animals. milks, but not human milk. Like, what if people harvested human milk? Like, that's what you could buy in this store. Wouldn't that be weird? Well, there is, it's not a black market, but it is, there is a market for kind of donor milk. Yes. And also, I mean, it's such high value too. And like colostrum,

the milk that comes in, you know, the first few days after birth. It's, I think there's, you know, there's, there's high value for. Did you ever taste it? Did you guys ever taste breast milk or your I know that's such a good question. I still haven't. You haven't? It tastes like almond milk. I never tried it. It's just a little bit sweet. I would try it. I mean, not like drink it out of a cup, but you weren't taking shots of it. Like a drop. Yeah. And I had my husband drink it too. What did you say? I'm keeping him here. I also made him take one of, because I got my placenta, like, ground up and encapsulated. And I made him take one. She just wants to keep him. Well, we've talked about this on this podcast. Oh, maybe we didn't.

Maybe we didn't. So I heard like an old, like witchy tale that this one time I was like obsessed with this guy and this woman said to me, oh, you want him to stay forever. Just take a little drop of your period blood and put it in his orange juice and he'll never stray. I think we have talked about this. Rob's saying, I don't. think we have. It would be imprinted in his memory. He's like, I don't ever want to hear it. I can't unhear it now. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. But when it came to the placenta, I was like, that's a kind of backdoor way of getting it in there. I just hunched over him in the middle of the

night when you're on your period. I was like, you want a vitamin? Are you feeling ill? Open. He was, he was, he was healthily aware of it. Oh, yeah. He was, he was like, I'll take one. Like, I don't remember how it came up, but I don't even think I said to him, like, great, now I have you trapped forever. But inside, I was like. Yeah. Rob, you just had me visualizing, like, Olivia's standing over Jeff, like the spit test. But with appearing in. So I'm curious, though, is the, like, capsule?

Uh-huh. Is that, like, sweet at all? Is it sweetened with anything or is it? No. So they just take it and dehydrate. it and then ground it and put it in a pill. So it's just like taking a vitamin. Yeah, but the capsule itself, you know what? Yeah. I don't think so. So what was the, what is the flavor then to the placenta pill? I have no idea. What does placenta taste like? Oh, you take it? Oh, no, I did take

them. What are I talking about? Yeah, you did take them. What? I'm just like what? What? The point of encapsulating your placentas only to feed them to your husband. So he'll be true. I don't remember a flavor. You just kept opening him and putting him in like all of his drinks. I was just like, look, I've struggled on and off my whole life with depression and the father of postpartum really freaked me out. And I heard that if you resupply all those nutrients, that your chances of getting it or less. So I was like, give it to me. I didn't get postpartum with my first. I did with my second. And I didn't do the placenta thing with him. So I don't know.

No? You got, I don't remember you going, do I? I didn't get postpartum with Elliot. But you didn't with, you did with Shepard? Oh, well, what you went through? I was dead near suicidal. What are you talking about? Well, that was circumstantial, like her baby. That was circumstantial. And like, there were so many things, you know what I mean?

So that's why I'm like, I don't know if that was postpartum depression or if that was just circumstantial PTSD. It was trauma. It was trauma. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's different. How long was she in the NICU, if you mind me? Oh, yeah.

So he was in the NICU for 30 days. And then he came home on oxygen for four or five months. Yeah. Something like that. It was a rough go. But it was a rough go. Yeah. Yeah.

So that was just trauma. That wasn't postpartum depression. Yeah. Just label it. Did you feel any of that? Postpartum. Yeah. I mean, it's so hard because I was, I've started.

struggled with kind of high anxiety for many years and unprocessed trauma for sure. But it kind of eventually turned into depression, which I think that that paralleled the pandemic and having a, you know, kind of being so isolated while pregnant, which it's this joyous thing. And it's like, you know, I, I didn't realize that I kind of craved some of the novel parental advice that you get from strangers and passer buyers and, you know. And so I think. that isolation and disconnection really affected me. And then I had some complications with pregnancy and was like admitted into the hospital about a month before. Oh, no. And so, and she was in the NICU, but only for four days. She kind of defied a lot. But she was, she was a preemie and so

that was just like hard early on with the feeding schedules and, you know, keeping her alive. Yeah, that whole keeping her alive part can be really challenging. So, so anyway, I think the depression kind of bled into now I have a baby and I'm like oh this is kind of just like I can't I can't quite like time out whether or not this this like precipitated you know if this was like started from having the baby or you know I got worse or just like I've just been depressed but yeah it's better now actually yeah oh good yeah that you're at a good age now with her yeah she's that's a great age she's so fun yeah and being on the road right you know it's like every day is new It's fun to be in new cities.

We get to like, you know, look up different museums and, you know, it's just, yeah. All the fun kids stuff now, right? Like, everything you look up is like, okay, what's the best kid museum or like park or whatever? You know, it's not like what it used to be, but it's better. It's like, I mean, I think I really enjoy it. You know, kids are cool. Yeah, it makes you present too because you have to be. You have to be.

Absolutely. Like they're your constant reminder of just staying present. you know what I mean and just being in the moment and it's 100 100%. Yeah. That's the thing about the pandemic that was so tricky is the village, right? And especially as a new mom, like it makes me feel emotional thinking that you had to go through that more alone than most women got to before the pandemic. Because I think becoming a mom in general is isolating because there's a part of you that's mourning your past. Yeah.

Your mourning freedom. You're mourning the relationship dynamic of whatever it was before the baby. Oh, yeah. And then the truth of the matter is you have to keep the baby alive. And it's like as much as you read before or talk to people, there's nothing like having people to just talk to and be like, when do they teat? When do they nurse? Like how often do I need to be? Like they don't come with handbooks.

And it's kind of scary. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Oh, it's terrifying. It's beyond terrifying. I mean, it seems like you should have a license to in order to have a baby, but then that's like completely inhuman. And, you know, like how can you qualify and, you don't want government kind of administering that. But it, but it's true. I mean, it's just like it's the most insane job in the world. And it's such a shock and shift, you know, going from none to one. You know, it's just like, holy shit. This life. Like, I. I didn't realize. And now I have like more energy. You know, I have more capacity. And like you said, like they are your greatest mindfulness teacher. And that kind of presence is the best kind of anecdote to, you know, mental struggles. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I didn't struggle, you know, after having my daughter, like I didn't have to deal with postpartum or anything. But when I got my daughter a puppy, like a year and a half ago, I'm. not kidding. I shit you not. I had post-pupy partom. It's a thing. She did. It's a thing. Okay. I looked it up. Shaking his head. Rob, Google that shit right now. Okay. I got this fucking puppy. And like, you know, it had just got, it's gotten so super easy with my daughter. And then we brought in this fucking baby. But it's not a baby. It's a furry little animal. I can't put it on the, I got to fucking have it. I got to take it out in the middle of the night outside to go to the fucking

bathroom. I'm like, you know what I mean? Like, it was like all these things where things have gotten so easy. I hated. I hated our dog. And mind you, she's eight pounds. She's like the cutest fucking thing. And I love her now. I love her to death. What type? What type of dog? Well, she's a shit poo. She's, she's like, Rachel really did like reject her in the beginning. I was like, oh, that's how moms feel when they reject their babies. Yeah, they're like. Oh my God. I was so surprised at myself because I fucking love dogs. Like I love dogs.

I love puppies. I love babies. But it was literally also pandemic, I think induced, which was all the whole other newfound depression and anxiety and all this stuff. And then bring a puppy into it. And you're like, oh no. Oh, no. Oh, no.

And yeah, Rob, did you find the post-puppie partom? I'm finding a few things. I think any big change like that is bound to shake things up. I'm going to look it up. I mean, I am. I'm seeing stuff. See?

He just doesn't want to believe. He doesn't want to give it to me. Because he's like, no, there's no fucking way. It is. I had to look it up because it was so bad. Anyway, that totally takes away from our whole, like, babies. But it's true. And it was crazy.

It was awful. I mean, I wonder. So many people got puppies in the pandemic. Oh, yeah. Yep. I got one too. You did? Yeah, I didn't like it either.

I just started liking her this week. And she's too. Because she's not peeing on all the beds now. Yeah, because she's no longer peeing on my beds. So side tangent. This is what I was wondering last night. So I'm watching you guys. Well, first.

This is a tangent. Yeah. Yeah. Last week. I mean, A few nights ago I went and saw the play Moulin Rouge, right? Oh, it was so fun. It was fun.

I fucking loved it. But it was like, you know, all the songs you know, not from the movie, different. So they did a redo of it, like, you know, mixing all the, like, current songs. So it was super fun and I'm watching it. And I've always loved theater, doing theater, acting, all of that kind of stuff. My biggest thing in life would be to be a singer, but I cannot sing. I'm watching them perform. And I'm feeling like, oh, my God, there's so much inside of me that needs to be expressed.

Like, fuck, I want to jump out of my skin, you know? So to go from that to then, two nights later going to see your show and seeing you pick up the violin, then pick up the guitar and then sing, I'm like, okay, I need to know this. Do you feel expressed? Or is it still That is an excellent question And I like You know I think it's

It has kind of a It has a short answer And a complicated answer In short, yes You know I think it's so cathartic To perform live And it's such a release

Yeah And I think it's best When I'm just so able to be so open Kind of to What is beyond us you know, in a spiritual way. I think it's just like that is like, why are we here?

You know, it's just beyond kind of ourselves. And so I think when I'm able to be open and channel that and express that connect, you know, then I think that that can spur kind of a catharsis and others who are watching and engaging and we're doing this together, you know? Yes. I think that's the most, you know,

I think that that's like, That's my mission as an artist, and that's like the highest goal. Yeah. Is when you're getting to that point. And part B is it is a bit complicated because I think there's certain songs that just don't really allow. Like, they're a different type of song, you know? Yeah. And there's multiple songwriters in our band.

And so I think that there's certain kind of approaches to songwriting that are, that don't necessarily bring that for, you know. Sure. And it's just like it's in life. You know, there's times you want to do. dance. There's times you want to like feel sexy and there's times you want to just be beyond like any of this material, you know? Yeah. But I think just who I am is like that just resonates like to the getting to the deepest part of who we are and like how we can connect, you know, and unify. Like that is that is the kind of art and music and performance that I, that I gravitate towards.

Yeah, because watching you, I was like, she's doing what I'm talking about. You know, like I had the conversation with my husband the night before. I'm like, I'm like, I feel like I need the cork out. And I watched you on cork, which uncorks all of us. And I was like, oh, like you were so tapped in. And just watching the crowd, that's one of my favorite things is not just watching the band, but just watching the crowd and what it's doing to them and their experience. I'm like, that must be the most incredible feeling.

It is so incredible. It's, yes, it's just such an emotional spiritual release, you know. And I think that like it's interesting because also when your passion becomes, your work, you know, and then there's money thrown in and voices and, you know, it kind of like, it's this collaboration that then creates this product that, you know, maybe from like the pure vision, it morphs, you know, because maybe you're trying to chase something that's already been successful or whatever, you know, and I think that when the art is too influenced by that, then it pulls you away from that spiritual kind of plane. Yeah. So anyway, I'm kind of, I'm, now I'm

tangenting, but no, you're not. You're answering. Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly what I wanted to know is like, are you getting to that place that so many of us long, you know, like as an artist, that's kind of the goal, right? Yeah. Well, and I think it's interesting because I think that it's been really, really incredible. So we're kind of, we mimicked our band. We had a mentor Dave Matthews early on in our career.

And their band is like a democratic band. So everyone gets paid the same, you know. Oh, wow. like similar to Radiohead, if you look at publishing, it just says like songs written by Radiohead, you know. So I think that that has really like, our lawyer said that's one of the best decisions you could have ever made. Yes.

Of course you can like surmise, like resentment. It'll build, you know, the bands will break up. It's already hard enough. But so anyway, we have this like collaborative band, this democratic band. I'm losing my train of thought, actually. Dave Matthews. I've never heard of him.

Have you met him? No. I've been to his show. It's amazing. It's the best ever. That's what I hear. I only hear like really amazing things. I wish I knew more.

I feel like so many people are like such hardcore fanatics for Dave Matthews. Yes. You know, the Dave Matthews been like deadheads. Right, right. It's like this whole world. And I feel like, Rob, how do you feel about Dave Matthews? Not indie enough. I'm okay with Dave Matthews.

Yeah, you can, you can, you can, ironically like him. I like radio had more than Dave Matthews. Rachel, remember the one night we did tinctures? And we listened to one Dave Matthews' song

on repeat. Which one? I only know one Dave Matthews' song I feel like. Which one is it? Crash into me? Oh, no. Is that not him? Who did I just sing?

I have no clue. Sing a little more? Oh, no, no. Oh, no. Yeah, crash into me. Of course. Yes. Yeah, it wasn't that one.

But it was the one with his feet and the clouds and his... His feet and the clouds? Oh. Is it a ballad? Yeah. Can't look at the title. Oh, it was so good. You guys, I feel like I just sang like Toad the Wet Sprocket or whatever the fuck.

I mean it was like... Oh, dear God. So, speaking in a collaborative. with your band, you collaborated on a human with one of your band members. Oh, yeah. He's also the bands. Yeah. That's also a unique thing.

Did you guys meet in the band? Like you were, how did that happen? So no, he actually, he joined the band a few years later from its origins, but he, he was playing in bands in like our local Seattle music scene. And we both played this. Have you ever been to the San Juan Islands? up in north of Washington. So beautiful.

Orchus Island. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So Dobe Music Festival is on Orchus. No way. It's so beautiful. Oh, my God.

It's this charming, charming, like small kind of hippie music festival. So back in the day, his band was performing the same year as ours. And a couple of my bandmates watched his set and were like in love with him, you know, like, you're so good. And then eventually they're like, you should date Maddie. I was like, I'm not in a place. He's really nice. You know. And anyway, so we kind of like met, had like parallel kind of, you know, band careers at that point.

And then we eventually started dating actually at that same music festival about a year later. No way. But then he joined the band. And so he's like incredible multi-instrumentalist, but he's been like great friends and supporter of all my bandmates for so long. And it was such a natural fit. But it obviously was a question for me and for him. Well, and for the band.

Like, now there's going to be this married couple. Oh, you guys were already married when he joined the band. Yes. Awesome. So we did a lot apart. We had months apart where I was on tour and he was at home. And then it was like, now we work, live together. Now we have a baby.

And it's such interesting dynamics, of course. with the group, but it's incredible because, and just unique to our story where we have to bring the child. Like, I'm a female in the band and we're married. Like, we can't just leave, and I'm feeding. Like, we can't leave it at home.

And so it's been such an incredible, like, colorful experience. And I wouldn't change it, but it is, like, really interesting and challenging. Of course. Yeah. I mean, it's challenging just... Yeah, only seeing them sometimes.

Oh, I was going to say it's really challenging just being a human or married or, you know. Oh, yes, that too. Or any of that. Yeah. You know, and then then you have to share, you have to learn how to communicate, like, we're with everybody, you know, like, so you kind of have to, like, put up your wall. You know, you don't want to be, like, too intimate when you're, like, going to, like, the festival site with your band. You know, it's just so interesting how we've just had to, like, figure out how to, like, navigate our relationship. But your band was, like, super well.

welcoming and cool with him joining and everything? I mean, it just felt like, and the person that Maddie kind of took over for, it was his idea, too. Like, he tapped. He's like, I want him to take my place. So spiritually, it just felt like, this is the right decision. We'll figure it out. You know, like, you don't want to overthink it. You're just like, everything is, like, aligning and we'll just figure it out. Yeah. That's the best way to do it. For sure. Well, when things are line, right? And they just flow. That's like in anything in life when you're trying to figure things out. If it flows, it's right. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. If you're fighting, fighting to make it

happen. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's like in everything. Do you feel like there's a cathartic, have there been moments or projects where you felt that kind of cathartic release? Or is it different in been acting? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, Well, for sure it's different. I'd imagine doing like theater, you know, it'd have a similar vibe for sure. And I did it like in high school. We did plays and stuff. It's a different energy and more fulfilling in a lot of ways, I think. But there's definitely been projects where you're like, fuck yeah. You know, like this feels good. This feels right. Even what I'm working on right now, it's like, oh, I forgot like, you know, you can do things even if it's on television and it's gotten so good. That just feels really good. And like feels like you're doing something and you're exercising things inside of you that you don't really get to otherwise, or at least you definitely bottle up things or hold things down. And it's an outlet if it's the right project. And I've had that opportunity, you know, a few times, I think, in some of the things I've done. But it's interesting, you know, when you meet so many different people and I'm

like working with this kid right now, that is so committed. expressive and like his role has been such a release and it's really interesting to watch acting in that way and be reminded of like how deep you can go with it and like how how much it can affect people and it's just it's really interesting you know and being a performer to any degree I've always like and I understand Olivia anytime I watch any concert musical whatever it is like I just cry. I'm just like, even if it's the happiest thing, I'm overwhelmed with like how I feel watching it. And I, so I can't imagine being like you, you know, just like such like a badass, like on stage, like going for it. And it has to be so freeing in so many ways. And I would imagine

it works out a lot of shit, you know? Totally. Which it's also really vulnerable, of course, you know, because you're like doing this in front of, you know, thousands of people or, you know, and even Even with like songwriting, you have to be so vulnerable, you know, to be able to tap into like something that you can connect with yourself and usually than others can connect with. Which I find interesting though, like you can maintain kind of a guarded nature in writing. But and I wonder with acting like, do you do the same or are there certain, you know, projects where you like don't necessarily feel that safety? There's definitely projects that just feel like a job, you know what I mean? And it's just a job and you show up and you're going to do this and which is like an amazing job, you know? Totally.

It's a fucking awesome job. Totally. But it's a job. And then there's certain ones that are like, oh, this feels really good. You know, it's interesting. How do you feel? Because I think this is, you touched on something that I have like wrestled. with. And, you know, it's like there's such privilege to be able to do what we do and to attain a

level of success that we have. And so you feel like you feel almost trapped like you can't complain. This is so interesting. Yeah. And because you think that that will cancel out the gratitude that you have for where you are. Right. So then I think that silence. is a lot of people when they get to a certain level of success. And I wonder, like, and I wrestle with it because... Yeah.

So anyway, one of my complaints is, like, I never wanted music to turn into a job, but there are certain aspects of it that have. And, like, how do you... How do you get through it? How do you get through the jobs that have a job? Right. You know, and how,

especially if it's something where you feel like you can't express or complain, you know, like, how do you process... How do you... It's so true. If I try to complain about it, like, Olivia will check me sometimes and be like, hey, wait, I'm like, no, no, you don't understand. Like, I don't get to see my kid.

You know what I mean? Yes. I have 16 hours away and she's asleep and then she's asleep when I leave and then I'm working until four. You know, like there are things that come attached to it that are very challenging. And I always preface it with, not that I'm not grateful, not that I don't realize what I have, you know, because it is. It's like you can't, there's no space for the reality of. what can come along with it because in a lot of ways it's a fantasy for for a lot of people and it is an amazing thing to have any success at something you're passionate about or want to do and and I totally

feel you because I can only say certain things to the people I'm closest to because you don't want to sound like an asshole but or to the people that you are closest to right you know right one thing rachel does that at least for me in that situation because there's been times where it's like she's going to do something that's always been my dream, right? And she doesn't pretend it's something it's not, you know? And we'll have like really honest conversations about it where she'll be like, I know you want this thing and I know this. But like let me break it down.

Like this isn't going to scratch that. Like go do a play. Go do something where you're being expressed. Right. So we've done like creative things like Rachel will write poems and send them to me. She's a fucking amazing writer. And like we will share different things. Like we did this thing like a monologue club that was like private just for us to like express on deeper levels.

And like she doesn't hide it. She's not like, yeah, everything's great. I'm privileged. I can't. You know, she's honest that like, yeah, I don't like working outside in the freezing cold. You know what I mean? For like 16 hours. Oh my God.

Yeah. And I think that so many people. people too, though, but it doesn't matter what your privilege level is. I just had this conversation yesterday with a client and I was like, they apologized for being like, I know I'm privileged, I know I'm privileged. And I'm like, can we just be done with that? Because yes, you are. And it's relative to your experience. You know, you're not saying that one's better or worse than the other. You're not claiming anything other than what's your reality and the honesty that Rachel brings to it, I feel like is helpful for me as someone who isn't in that level. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I think I think there's such like, there's extremes. There's extreme sacrifices and extreme rewards. And I think on any human consciousness, like, there are going to be mental health issues if you don't process accordingly. You know what I mean? And I think that. And I think that, it's like that level that level of extreme work like comes with such challenge and um you know I think it's just I wrestle with yeah kind of finding the outlets too you know if you're at this level and you're like this thing is turning into a job and I have to get through it right how do I reconcile that how do I reconcile with my identity and my artistry right and I think it's come to find out yeah I think that there needs to be some kind of outlet that's outside of you can call me anytime

Unless you Thank you because similar but different enough you know in the worlds And I think that I think that like there's you know

Yeah this is this is like so healthy I feel you know I feel like unless you know Unless I was like the queen of my domain If it was like I controlled every like nut and bolt Of any kind of creative like You know

Which then there would be a downfall Because the beauty of collaboration And the intrigue of of projects or like how different people can create shit. But, you know, I think that it's like if you kind of have to yield yourself in a process, then you do need

more of an outlet that you can't control. That's right. And so like the poetry thing is such a beautiful thing. I don't know if you know about the kind of iconic classic book, The Artist's Way. Of course. It's my favorite. Morning pages. Morning pages. You talk about that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think

every human, you know, like should be doing morning pages. Even if you don't consider yourself creative. Because I think that just create an outlet and that can spur and inspire you know, kind of what you do need to kind of feel fulfilled as a human. Absolutely. So, I mean, morning pages just because I like to, you know, explain. And I think we have before. But if you just wake up and you write any and every thought that comes to your mind and you never read it again, you destroy it, whatever it is, but it's so helpful and so therapeutic. And I mean, I'm lying, I'd be lying if I say I do it every day. I wish I'd be lying. I'd be lying. I'd

did and could. I've gone through phases. Yeah, you go through phases, but it's still there. And it's a really helpful tool because how often are we not able to quiet our fucking minds and, like, everything running around in there. And there's so much you're trying to work out. And it's just really smart. I mean, it's a really nice tool to, like, have and to start your day because it feel

like you just kind of set out on the right foot. Is it three pages? Three pages, which much my husband and I always, you know, like we went on a retreat, just the two of us before the baby, and he brought his notebook for morning pages. And I brought, like, one of those mini-mull skin. You're like, he's fine. I'm like, done. Yeah.

Three mini-pages. Yeah. It can be anything, though. The artist's way is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I think, yeah, I think you can be anything, you know. And I'm always, like, a big believer in my mom has taught me this.

Like, yes, they say you have to do, like, whatever, three pages, throw it away. It's like, if you do anything and you're doing anything for yourself and if you're taking it as an example or a guideline or whatever, you're doing something. And that's like advancing a lot of things for you personally. Exactly. You know, mini moleskin all the way. Like you say three words, you're good. You know what I mean? Like whatever it is. And they're totally. Yeah, you can like literally write fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck for like, and I've done that. And you're clearing your head. You're clearing the garbage. You're clearing your head, you know. And it's true because I think that the illusion is, and that's why I asked you that.

if you feel expressed because it's like the illusion is like, oh, if I only had this, then I'd feel. Right? And that's, it's not real. So it's like even if you have that, you just said, you and your husband are still doing morning pages. Right. So even with all that expressing, it's like I think that we as humans need to find the things that are for us and just for us in order to like. As parents. right like as parents for sure i mean that's a big thing too like i i to a fault probably like

it's always my kid first but you know that's a good thing but i it's like this constant battle yeah battle and i have friends that are like no i'm doing this for me i need to do this for me so i can be a better boundary boundaries and i just i'm not wired like that you know like i'm just not I'm like, no, my kid comes first or, you know, whatever it is. I just, right. People are just wired differently. And I think it's okay. That's another thing about getting older and everything.

It's like acceptance. Like, okay, that's how this person is. This is how this person handles this. This is, you know, their preference, whatever. And I have noticed as you get older, like relationships change a lot in all of your life because you're realizing like, okay, I completely, like, view things differently or wired differently or I don't support this. And it's just interesting.

It's like people you think that you're going to be, you know, forever. Lifeers. Or lifers. It's interesting to see how those relationships change. And it's just, it just speaks to how we all change so much. Completely. I feel like as I age and, you know, gain more wisdom from just living and becoming a parent. Yeah.

You know, I think the more that I like, for me, I, you know, I mean, my name's charity. And I think that it's been. that's been a lot to live up to. Yeah. But, you know, and so I think I'm like deeply, deeply empathic to an extent that it's like I'm not taking care of myself, you know. And I think the more that I've realized and learned to respect myself and value myself, relationships around me have changed. Right. For me, that's like been one of my biggest life lessons is just like learning to value myself and which is like creating boundaries, you know, but it gets so blurred with now having a child because.

I go to my default of like, this is, you know, you are so vulnerable and fragile and I want to protect you at all costs. And usually that means like, you know, not taking care of myself. Right. When I need it. But, you know, I mean, God, life is just like one long lesson. Isn't it? You know what it is? It's relentless. It just keeps. You think you've learned a lesson. Yeah. And then, you know, the universe is like, you have to learn it again. You know, it's like you'll never achieve. You were just the constant pupil, you know. I think, and I wonder this sometimes. I wonder

if the people that have it like Rachel always, you know, recently she went through some periods in her life like during the pandemic and everything where she experienced depression, which she spoke about and anxiety and all that

stuff. But before that, her nervous system was pretty calm. And the things that like I personally struggled with, naturally, mentally came easier to her. And for me, in order for me to function, I have to take care of myself first. Like I am sober, so I have to like go to meetings. I have to tend to that part of me. I have to do my yoga a certain amount of days a week or I'm unwell, like literally not well. And I wonder if the people that

have a calmer nervous system, have an easier way of kind of dealing with that where they don't need to do that. Or... Or I just hate yoga. She hates yoga. I know you hate yoga. But like I wonder, like, you don't have the motor that's like...

Right. Like, I have to do the yoga. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, no, I can take my daughter to the museum, whereas I'm like, no, I have to do the fucking yoga. Right. Or, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. But I think... I mean, I wonder if. It's the motor. I think there's something to be said about the serotonin, you know, that you gain from, like, higher intensity. Yeah, yeah, actively. But I'm like you charity, like an empath, like to a fault, you know, all of those things. And I don't know if that has to do with it too.

But yeah, I'm not, like, I know the key is to, like, go for a fucking run. You know what I mean? Like, go walk outside. Like, help your brain, help your. Yes. And, like, that's not my natural go-to, you know. And I definitely... It's shop pop.

It's, yeah, online shopping. That's my exercise. But it's just, you know, everyone copes differently. And it's been a learning curve for me for sure because, like she said, like my whole life, I never had to deal with this stuff. I was definitely the person that was like, okay, like everything's okay. Just going around in like a bubble, like totally fine, you know? And that was just how I was.

It's how I was. Really? Really? Yes. And fearless and just like. Just like, cool. Everything's like, whatever. What did that change for you?

I guess when I started the band. Yeah. Of course. The trauma that came. Right. Just the experiences, you know. Right. Especially for like, again, you know, kind of a relentless, like, touring in van, you know, like you aren't sleeping.

You aren't eating well. You know, you aren't taking care of your mind. like anything and your way from relationships. It's just like, it's just extreme kind of wear and tear. And so I think that just like that that that started. Yeah, it's experiences, right. Eating away at my my hopeful naivete, you know. How old were you?

When you started, 25, 24, 25. That's really young. Yeah, it's really young. Yeah. Right out of college. Yeah. And to gain success on that level, it's also probably really fucking with your ego in a way. whether positive or negative or whatever, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, we felt the pressure of just saying yes to everything, every opportunity, you know? Mm-hmm. And that's just like, we're like, we're a really hardworking band. And it's hard to, like, put up boundaries, you know, when we're all like in this together. And no one wants to be the bad guy and say no to something. Right.

You know, it's like when you're autonomous, you know, I feel like that's really healthy and you can make your own choices. But obviously it's complicated. But for you, you feel like you're the kind of anxiety and depression is like a pretty recent, like with the kind of onset of the pandemic or before that? Yeah, you know, it's been probably the past five years, I'd say. It's just life and experiences. Like you said, like you live on and things happen. Like you go through certain traumas and experiences and things that are just fucked up.

Not that I didn't as a trial. Everybody has those too. But for some reason, you know, being older and really being dealt a hand or two has definitely, yeah, it's just, I think the pandemic for sure, like, skyrocketed any depression that was inside me to the front and was like, oh, no, you have this in there. It's been suppressed. But, like, your fucking great uncle, like, threw himself in front of a train. Like you definitely have it in your family, you know? Like whatever it is. And your grandmother who has whatever, you know, it definitely runs in the family.

And it never even occurred to me, just like you. Just like it doesn't even like the naivete of like, no, like I was, it was never even a thought. And I have had my best friends, Olivia, like people who have dealt with it for so many years and me being the person that's always like, what do you mean? Like, like, it's just fine. Like, just go about your day. Like, what do you mean? And then. Right.

Yeah. It's just life. It's just fucking, you know. Life is really extremely hard for every single person. Absolutely. And I think, yeah, absolutely. And if it's not, it's coming for you. Yeah, it's coming for you.

Yeah, it's coming for you. Like, don't think you're getting away, it's got free, you know? Exactly. And I still think even for me, you know, it's not like I'm, I'm not like medicating myself. You know, I don't, I'm still dealing with it and coping with it. and it's not like unbearable and I can't get out of bed. Function. It's not like I can't function because, you know why?

I have to. I have a kid. Maybe if I didn't have a kid and I was going through it, it would be different. But you're forced as a parent, no matter what you fucking get up, you, you know, handle and take care of your kid. And like, you don't have any other options. Some people do and they take a very different option. Right. You have chosen to take those options.

Not only that, you've gotten help and you've surrounded yourself in environments that are going to get you out of it. A lot of people choose not so terrific paths. Yeah, I'm not saying that's what everyone does. Of course not. People definitely handle it differently. Yeah, but me, it's like, no, I don't have a choice like this is my what I have to do. I mean, therapy is great. I love therapy.

Big fan of that. My best friend and husband have the same therapist. How about that? Her husband set me up with, yes, his therapist, thankfully. I know it's very cute. So it's cute. It's always like Linda said from both of them. They're like, well, Linda said.

Yeah. Like, oh, did she? Yeah, it's a great tool. It's like another tool, you know, and I see it in my kids sometimes. Like, all kids have a certain degree of anxiety with things, right? Like just in this anxiousness that I wouldn't recognize normally but having a new experience with it. I'm like, oh, okay. And then as a parent you're always like, oh, fuck, is this going to be something?

Like, you know, you spiral and that's another form of anxiety of like spiraling about every, yeah. Yeah. Fear, right? Like, I'm driving behind my kid today and she's in a convertible with her grandparents. And I instantly had the thought, like, a car could hit them and she'd flip and there's no roof and like my kid would die. Like, and I'm like, oh no. Oh, no. Yeah.

Like, oh, no, the fear, anxiety, depression. Like, it's going in my brain. is taking over the fear like fuck it's so brutal oh my god it's so brutal could so relate yeah right and i'm like in my head i'm like wait stop you're just letting fear control everything right now you're you're letting anxiety do the thing and i'm like what is happening am i just really tired like what i try to like look at it and be like why am i doing this yeah but you sent me an article the other day that my husband and i were beefing on where our kids going to go to school because we had very different. Upbringings? Very different. Yeah. Yeah. He went to private school. I went to public

school. He's a doctor. I got kicked out of five high schools. I'm pushing for the private school. Is that because you're kind of like, oh, no, finished, finish. No, I'm like, yeah, don't do what I did. Let's put him in it. For sure. And we were like really not coming together on it. And we've got major tools, you know, but Rachel sent me this article that's like, well, I don't even remember the article. What did I send you? It was that, you know, when you have a baby, you know how they get our stem cells, the baby, but now they've just did a case or some sort of study in Rome where they're proving that we as the mother. Now, we get their stem cells. So they're not ever out of us. So like mother's intuition, like part of them is inside of us. I'm like,

I sent it to her because I was like, just show Jeff this. I think it was Bruce Lipton. Yeah, it was. It was. It was like amazing. He talks all about the like psychology of raising children and so many different things. But it's like, yeah, I was like, just show Jeff this. He's still inside you.

You know it's best for him. And that's the school he should go to. Exactly. And the mom's frontal lobe grows too, which is completely different than the man. It doesn't happen to the man. Right. So it's like when you have those thoughts about your daughter, your daughter. briar.

It's because... Don't what? You mean? Because I know and it was going to happen? No. No. It's because the frontal lobe gets bigger, which controls the fear center, right? Right.

And so we have a different level of fear and connection. So put connection and fear together. You're fucked. Right. Fuck, man. It's awful. Yeah. My husband will be like, just don't think that.

I'm like... Wouldn't that be nice. Rob, do you ever have that? those fearful thoughts as a parent, as a father, do you go there? Not too much, no. See? Does Natalie, though? Maybe Natalie doesn't. I don't think she does.

She probably doesn't actually. We're looking for common humanity here. I told Jeff recently, because my husband grew up in a really, like, cozy, like, two parents together and married. No trauma, no nothing. Whereas where I grew up,

like, bad things happened. And, And I'm like, the difference between us is I know bad things happen. And so the fear gets triggered when the smallest, like when the fever goes over 102, my body's going to respond different to him because I'm like, bad things are happening. Bad things are happening. You know what I mean? Like worst case scenario, worst case scenario. Yeah.

Yeah. But we work on it. But we work on it, right? Yeah. What else are you going to do? Right? You'd walk around like, and I've experienced people with children that. that like it's only anxiety all of the time.

Like it's only fear. And I'm like, imagine living in that. I don't know. I feel like you can tell, you know, like the developed nervous systems of different kids too. You know, like, thank God, you know, Francis is establishing herself to have a solid one as of now. You know, and she feels that kind of loves around from us. And you just, you see her kind of. having less fear and being more kind of socially engaged like she'll just you know high to everybody you know

it's like I don't have to worry like she she's like I don't have to worry about trying to survive right you know I'm able to just thrive and be curious and you know I think it's it's so it's so interesting to see that in such young humans and observe you know and then there's this other kid that you know that's like like given granted they could just be shy right but you know it's like they seem more closed off to the world and to that connectivity. And it's like, oh, what happened to your nervous system? What kind of experience and childhood trauma, which will follow you the rest of your days? Oh, absolutely. You can tell so much, even by a child, you know, their personality or how they're interacting with stuff. And I will say, I got the best compliment last night.

Jack Davenport, I don't know, he's been in so many. He's a wonderful actor. And I'm working with him right now. And he was around Briar, like, she was hanging out. And he was like. Your child is so grounded. She is. Look, you in the eye, have a conversation.

And honestly, it was the best compliment I could ever receive in my life. It's like that my kid is like secure and grounded and kind and like all. And I'm like, that is all that fucking matters. You know? I was like, I don't need to hear anything about myself. I don't care about anything else. You're like, but how was my acting in that scene? But like, other than that, like, how amazing am I?

because I guess what that saying. Talk to me more about my amazing chat. But more about me. But yeah, and it's so true. And it's just a testament to like surrounding them with such love and just security. And what you were saying earlier, how you're touring with her and getting her used to things early, they only know and like they adapt to what they're exposed to. Right. So like you're just and they're so adaptable.

You know what I mean? And starting that early is so huge. It's like the same thing. That's what we've been told. Yes. Yeah. It's like if she'll be flexible then from here on now. She's like change, change, change versus I want this rigid, you know, stability or whatever.

Right. No. They're used to what you surround them with and that's just how it is. And I think it's super cool. And like they say, you do that with dogs and I did it with my fucking dog. I hate it. Like it's the same thing. Train them early.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Dang. I didn't get that note. Yeah, you on the other hand. Is your dog with you right now?

No, we didn't bring her. Because you hate her. Because I hate her. No, she loves her. No, I love her now. But she's very sassy, and I don't know how she would do on a plane. See, that's the one thing we didn't do was put her on a plane early. Oh.

Which was a mistake. See, if you don't start early, then you're kind of fucked. But I don't know. She's very sassy and very opinionated. But maybe one time I'll try it. She's really not that bad at all. Like the whole time I'm just like she's quite pleasant. Like she's great.

She just had an aversion to her from the beginning. But you love her now. I love her. Oh, I love her. I love her to death. She's so cute. But yes, it was a rough go in the beginning. We'll have to look up.

Did you end up Googling the... Yeah, puppy part of him. It was there. He just doesn't want to give it to me. I'm telling you. I said it was there. It was there. It was there.

Everything is there on Google. He's so defeated. It's just verifiable opinion. He's so defeated. He's like, damn it. It exists. If we look into it more and talk about it on the podcast, it makes it more real, though. Yeah.

Let's just leave it. It is real. It does. I know. I experienced it, Rob. The lowest of standards. It exists on the internet. There's a lot of articles about it.

Yeah. It's a thing, guys. I know. Well, this has been such a lovely conversation. I have to say. It's been, thank you so much. Thank you for taking time. I know it's wonderful.

You're on tour and you have a little one and we really appreciate you taking the time to do this. This is so great. This is so out of the ordinary firm our day to days. It's just great to have to be able to talk in a really authentic, you know, and wonderful way, you know, and just about life. Yes. We like to keep it very open. safe around here to discuss anything and everything. Heck yeah.

Will you sing us out? No. Wait, really quick, really quick. Before we wrap, last night, I was noting that, you know, every time you would come in and sing, the crowd. Like, it was never missed on the crowd. Every time you came in, they just roar. How does that feel? It's cool.

It's not like they're like, hey, yeah, she's in the band. She's singing. Like that's what she does. It's every time she comes in, you hear, yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. It's really wonderful. And how cool.

Yeah. And your daughter gets to see that and hear that. I know. She's going to grow up watching mommy. And that's the other thing. And daddy. Together in a band. For sure.

But like, I was having this conversation again last night. It was like, but how cool for your daughter to see a successful working mother? And like, yeah. How cool that is. Same. You know? Like, yeah. Like it's so true for her to have that role model of like,

fuck yeah, my mom like kicked ass, like watching everything you're creating and the response to it. There's nothing better than that, you know? And then I immediately run off stage and like breastfeed her to bed. Yeah. That's it. Because you're a fucking badass. Like that is like woman in like that is just, I'm just in awe of you. And I think it's amazing.

Truly. So inspired by the same exact thing in you. Oh, that's so sweet. And, you know, badasses. Badass. Brestfeet. Living life holistically. Yeah.

Breastfeed till tree, at least. At least our prescription. For sure, for sure. So lastly, what we do on our way out of these little thing conversations, we play a game called Mary Barry One Night Stand. Who are the people? Do you remember? Rob wanted like a bunch of obscure cool bands so that he could look cool. Yeah, so he could look cool.

And we're like, no. They wanted a bunch of like old men. We did. Whatever. It's a game, Rob. And so it's Mary, Barry. What is it? Mary.

Barry. Barry one night stand. Like B-U-R-Y. One-night stand. Okay. Here's your, we got Leon Bridges. Uh-huh. We got Zach Alphinachis.

And who is the third one? Rob, you can throw one in there, go. Who was the first one? Leon Bridges. Leon, Zach. I was trying to go like Kurt Cobain, Billy Corgan. I mean, you know. You took my answer then, yeah.

I was like, if he's already dead. Yeah, it'd be too easy. What about Justin Bieber? No, Justin Timberlake. Because Bieber was young. Justin Timberlake. This is a very eclectic myth. We like to keep it spicy.

We like to really get to know you. You would learn a lot. Oh my gosh. Leon Bridges. Justin Timberlake. Zuck. Galifianacus. Okay.

And again, the three options are. Mary, Barry, one night stand. Okay. Fuck Mary Kill. Wow. Wow. Okay. My husband and my child

listen to this. Okay. Let's see. I would probably bury Justin Stimberlake. You fuck Leon. Yeah. Yes.

One night. Stan Leon. And then I'd marry Zach. Yeah, you would. It would. That would be fun. That would be a fun. Humor is the like success to any relationship.

It's the answer. Absolutely. To everything. Yeah. Make a girl laugh. You'll keep her for a few days. Well, Charity, thank you again so much. Thank you for your time.

Yeah. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. And good luck on the rest of your tour. I know it's like. Thank you. But so awesome.

And I have to, I can't wait to come the next time. Yeah, please. Please come out. Yeah, and congratulations on your little girl. Thank you so much. Love you, Rachel. Yeah. Enjoy it.

All right. Okay. Bye guys. Have fun in my house. Red vines are Twistlers. Okay. Red vines. Red vines are better.

Thank you. Red vines are better. I might eat a twizzler. Nope. It tastes like fake lipstick, I understand. But I might, but I definitely prefer a red vine. Yes, Rob. What about regular Twizzlers or Pull and Peel Twizzlers?

Regular. What's that? Oh, I love the Polandpeel ones. She's a red vine person. I know she's a super redvine. I don't eat candy really at all. You don't eat candy at all? No.

I was sneaking Calvin Saur Patch Kids at the concert because as a mom, sometimes you must have those on deck. Absolutely. Always have. So it's so funny, you know, you become a parent, And there's all these things you're like, I'm not going to do that. And we're not going to have a lot of sugar and they're not going to watch TV a lot. And you know what?

It goes out the window pretty quick. Yeah, it goes out the window real quick. Anytime I know we're going to be in the car a long time, I always have something in my purse. Yeah. I was with my friend at the gym and she's like, I have to leave. I have to go get my kid jelly beans before I go. And I'm like, oh, no, no, I got some in my purse. You're good.

You can have these. Always. Yeah, it's bad. You know, there's a strategy to most things with children. Like, you have to strategize and you have to be prepared. We were so good in the beginning, though. Elliot didn't have sugar, and his first taste of sugar was his first birthday. Yeah, that's how Calvin did.

Yeah, and then it was like... Right, and then, you know, like Breyer's first birthday, we made her birthday cake, and it was, like, sweetened with applesauce. You know what I mean? Exactly. Same. That goes out of a fucking window, like, real quick. But the first time she ever tried ice cream, gosh, I have a video and it's the cutest thing ever.

But like how excited they get like sugar? I mean, sugar is really a. It's a thing. It's a thing. I love sugar. And it's really bad for you. It's really. What's your favorite sweet?

Both Rob, you said you don't eat candy, but I want to know your favorite sweets. So I crave cookies every day. You also love ice cream. I crave cookies. An ice cream. You know what the interesting thing is, though? Is that for three years, I ate a half a pint of ice cream every single night. Okay? That's real. While I was breastfeeding. When I gave up breastfeeding, I haven't been eating a lot of ice cream. Interesting. I think my body wanted, like, the fat to produce more milk or something. So now I'm, I love, like, a crumbly. Bumbley peanut butter cookie is also your favorite. So peanut butter cookies is your thing. I think so.

What's your favorite sweet? Me? Yeah. You know what's interesting about me? I don't like cake. I'm not a cake person. It's weird. I know.

I don't like cake. I really despise chocolate cake. Yeah, I don't like chocolate cake. Discussed. Love it. But, okay, there's a few things that, like, I will be very excited about. And we've been talking about it. I know this is after the fact, but my birthday is whatever.

So they've been talking about, what do you want for your birthday, right? I love homemade rice crispy treats. I love making rice crispy treats, too, actually. But do you do them, like, fancy or do you do traditional? I do traditional. Good. I'm so happy to hear it, Rob. I was worried you're going to be, like, and then.

Do you brown the butter or some shit? There's still a technique to it. What is it? I mean, it's still the recipe, but it's like... What's your technique? I'll make them, and you can tell me if they're exactly the same or not. Hmm. I feel like he browns his butter.

Do you, like, put brown sugar in the butter or something? No, no, it's all the same. It's just how you... No, but I do like making homemade chocolate chip cookies and browning the butter. So you get like that, that, like, nutty taste. Like little crispy on the outside, soft in the middle? Yum. Some flaky salt on top.

Yes. Another thing I love, oh, yeah, salted chocolate chip cooking, I'm done right? Fuck yes. What I love, my great grandmother, she was big in cooking and baking. A packaged brownie, right, in a box and you put marshmallows. You put marshmallows or she may have done marshmallow cream. I don't remember. But you put marshmallows in the batter and then when you bake it, that is probably one

of my all-time favorite things. Like I will get down with the whole pan of it. But it has to be packaged brownie. It can't be homemade, fucking rich, fudgy. Like, bleh. I need a classic box. Your family's amazing bakers. Yeah, my Aunt Carol is an amazing.

So I just, what I'm going to do with my, with Briar, we're going to make my Aunt Carol's Haller recipe bread. We're going to make two loaves of bread either tonight or tomorrow. I'm into, because we've been watching the baking championship. We're still watching it. And I now want to bake bread. So we're going to do that. My favorite is your Aunt Carol's pound cake.

Is it the pound cake with the chocolate chips in it? Yeah, yep. Oh, that is so insane. Did I give you cookies for Christmas that I make? Yes, Rob makes delicious oatmeal cranberry. Yes, white chocolate cranberry oatmeal cookies. Yum. See, I'm a cookie person.

Everyone makes me make them for them on Christmas. That's so cute. ago I did it and people love them. I feel like I got mine late or something. I didn't have them fresh and that was a big missed step on them. I thought I was gone. She just didn't eat them.

Anyway, they were really good. I love cookies. I will always, oh, and I love like a crisp or a crumble. Yeah. Like warm with ice cream. I'm not huge on pie. Me neither. I like peach pie, banana cream pie.

Those are my favorites. There's a place called Pie and Burger that's out in Pasadena. And in the summer, they have fresh peach pie. And it's amazing. F.I. I don't like like berry pies and stuff like that. But I love chocolate cake. Ugh. How do you not like it? I don't like it. And I will always go for like seize candy over most things. Oh, you and I. Oh, we go. We get down. We never pass a cease candy and not stop. It's like a thing. Like, there's a cease candy. There's a Seas candy, but you know what else I love, which is not common, not common, but not everybody, are dark chocolate covered orange peels.

Nope. Yuck. Rob, you didn't say your favorite thing. Probably donuts. Oh, I love donuts. Well, yeah, the butter salt, we've been over this by sidecar. Or like a boodino. What is a boodino?

Is that like the big labelopee of donuts? He was scared to say it. What the fuck is a butino? It's like an Italian dessert. It's like a panacotta kind of. It's like a caramel-y, salty. No, no, no, no. It's more like pudding texture, I guess.

Like a creme brule-ish. Hippo has a butyno. That's like a butterscotch salted bovina. It's like a pudding thing. I love that. It's more carmally than pudding, though. Growing up, I never liked. Did you guys?

like Jello pudding or Jello. I hate it both. Hated. I like pudding. I hate Jello. Oh, I hate both. I hate Jello. It reminds me of being in the hospital. Okay. I get so. Like whenever you'd go visit someone in the hospital, there'd always be like jello on the tray or, ugh. Do you know what I miss from my childhood? Do you guys remember kudos? Your dad. Did you have daddy issues? That was good, Lou. That was a good one. Kudos. Do you remember kudos bars? Yeah, I loved kudos. Yeah. Rob doesn't know they are. I like food a lot. I think I'm hungry. I used to switch lunches with this girl. I'll never forget it in my life. Did you like gank her? No, no. We had a deal. People would line up and and switch up their lunches and you had to put your name on a waiting list for Kuka's burritos. Her name was Kuka and her mom made her these little burritos. But for some reason. This was a student?

This was a student. And it would be like, I'm Tuesday for Kuka's burritos and you'd switch her your lunch and you'd get one of her burritos. And it was like the perfect bean and cheese burrito. Yeah. Like I've never to this day had anything close to Kuka's burritos. Have you had Yucca's burritos in Los Velas? Yeah. For bean and cheese?

Yeah, yeah. Those are pretty good. There was a guy in Chicago called the Tamale guy that he'd go around all the bars with a cooler. and sell tamales. And they were incredible. Tamale? Tamales? Or tamale?

Tamale. Tamale. Oh. I know because that's when he just said it. I was like, hmm. Yeah. No, Tamale. Here we go.

See, the game lives on. Week after week. It was funny. We were driving. And when you grow up in Los Angeles, there's certain streets that everybody says and everybody knows, right? And like we were on La Ciena

the other night. And my husband's from Pittsburgh. So he's like, should I turn right on La Sienega? And I'm like, on what, babe? And he's like on La Sienega. And I'm like, La Siena. No. He couldn't do it.

That. He couldn't say it? He couldn't say it. He kept being like, La Sienega. And I'm like, no. La Sienega. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's a lot like that.

Yeah, Las Sienega. Yeah. I mean, Los Feles is one, too. people really fuck that up. Los Feliz. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's something Jeff would say.

He'd be like, I have to go out to Los Feliz. Las Feliz. Right? Los. Well, we say Los Angeles, right? That's because it's spelled. You say Los Angeles? Los Angeles.

Yeah, it's Los Angeles. Yeah, it's the same, Rob. Yeah. You say Los Angeles? Yeah. It's Los Angeles. There are a lot of things like that, though. Yeah, there are.

I ross people all the time. You say Los Vegas, right? Oh, my God. Yeah. What happens in Los Vegas days in Las Vegas. But do you not ross people with like, I know you don't, Olivia, with like grammar or? Hey. What?

Well, you can, you're admittedly not great. with... I'm horrible. With that stuff. Like, do you guys, if someone says, like, you are, but it's you are

and they write while you are, how do you feel about that? I notice it, but I don't, I'm not gonna correct them. Only my best friends. Well, yeah, yeah, it depends on who it is.

Right. If it's like, yeah. That's not true. You do it if you want to, like, start a fight, too. No, I do it to be funny. If, like, someone writes me a whole thing and they're mad and it's like a mean text,

And the whole thing, my only response is I do an asterisk and correct their grammar. Yeah. Do you get a lot of those? Some reason. People are always mad at me over text. What's the last thing that happened with? It wasn't me. It was someone else that was showing me.

And I said, your only response here is asterisk. Y-O-U-Postrophieri. Oh, yeah. It was me to Dave. Because he wrote me some troll-y text message. And he knew it wasn't your response. And then I wrote back that and he goes, oh, great. Now you're having people like spell check and read your text messages to you.

Like he knew it couldn't have been me. Yeah, he knew it couldn't have it. Ew. We got in a big fight the other day, which I'm going to have to tell you about. And he got so mad at me. He's like, why don't you just talk about it on your podcast? Oh. Yeah.

We're doing it now. Yeah. What was it about? It was a real fight. It was a real fight. Really? Yeah. This is like her best.

Yeah, miscommunications, all of that. But it got to the point where he was like, I'm done faking this friendship to Jeff. Yeah. And it's her oldest male friend. We've been best friends since sixth grade. Yeah. It was a real fight. And they're supposed to come over this weekend.

They're coming down? Yeah, they're supposed to. But I think that Alex may just come with the kids because we're in such a big fight. You're still in a fight. Yeah. Well, he's done faking the friendship with you, too. That's why he's coming. He said, I'm done faking this friendship.

What a dick. He can be such a dick. He can be such a dick. That seems intentionally. He lives to ruffle my feathers. However, when you cross the line into Jeff's feathers, we're in a different... Well, but he probably knew that, too. Yeah.

Yeah. that's a whole other enchilada my grandpa used to circle my misspelled words if I'd write him cards or letters and send them back to me in the mail that's hardcore

hardcore hardcore oh man and when you go to his house he'd play the dictionary game with you what is the dictionary game where you just scroll through the dictionary

and wherever it lands you bring up a word and everybody has to say what the definition is and how you spell it. What happens if you get it wrong? You have to sleep outside that night? I never would play because of my dyslexia. I would just dodge it. I was going to try to look up a word and quiz you.

Let's do it to Rob. No, no, no. I mean, it's not fair to do it to me because of my learning differences. Pathologize. Pathologize? Yeah. P-A-T-H-O-L-G-I-Z-E. What's the definition?

I don't know. Regard or treat. Someone or something is psychologically abnormal. Why is that the first word that came up when I Google dictionary? Yeah, I'm like, hmm. I don't know. Google knows you. So how do you use it in a sentence?

Don't pathologize him without knowing his actual diagnosis. Oh my God. My mom yesterday, Jeff, they do IVs at Jeff's work. At the hospital? No. It's crazy. No, he works at NextHealth and they do like health optimization IVs and all that fun stuff. And he was saying like, oh, we got to get you a cocktail like vitamin B and whatever. And I was like, oh, I can't wait.

And my mom's like, you know, when I was young, we used to do that. And they would put a little methamphetamine in it. I was like, Mom, he's not shooting people with meth. And I was like, who used to do that? And she'd be like, oh, this doctor, he would do these cocktails and put just a little meth for a little pick-me-up. And I'm like, that's a doctor feel good. That's not normal.

Well, Coca-Cola used to feel real good. They used to have meth in it, right? They used up Coke, hence the name. Cocaine. Oh, actual cocaine. Hence the name, Coca-Cola. Where do you think that came from? There was cocaine in this.

Coco beans or something, I don't know. I never put much thought into it. What does Pepsi come from? You got the right one, baby. Pep smears. What the fuck? Pepsmears. That's how you guys pronounce it?

Tell us something about how you feel about your birthday. How do you feel about that? So, like, you get older and birthdays, like, I would rather just, you know, It's like whatever. It's only about kids' birthdays at this point in life. And you think about your kids' birthdays and, like, your birthday. People are different. Some people go all out, and that's great.

Are you feeling old? I will say, like, working on this project I did recently, like, I've never felt older. Because there were, like, younger kids working. You know, these kids who are just starting out and they're so into it and, like, you know, everything's new. And myself. and one of the co-stars, Jack, who's been doing it for 30 years, we were like, you know,

the old mom and pop on set and being like, oh, you know. Did you take a different role on set than you normally do? Well, clearly from how I just spoke, I was the grandpa. No, no, I mean, were you more like mentori versus... Yeah, so I basically adopted the kid.

I call him a kid. He's 22, but he's youthful. read and I love him and I became his set mother and that was my first experience like really taking in you know the younger kid and like pulling him aside and having conversations and you know that was new and it was really sweet though love him love him he's just so young did you have a moment of like whoa how did I get here I'm that person now yeah I mean mean, it's more like it's hard growing old in this business and like paying attention to the other things like, oh, like, well, I didn't do Botox or whatever it. You know what I mean? And it's like, well, it's a weird, that's a weird thing. And I don't think I'll be able to watch it because I don't

want to see myself on screen. I don't think. I have those moments like Jeff and I went to parent night at Elliott School last night for the first time. And we were in hysterics because I looked at him and I was like, and it's like I wanted to raise my hand and be like, we're parents. You know, like how did we get here? Yeah, like you're at the back to school night. I still feel like we're kids when we are around other parents. Same. Like, kindergarten drop off.

Like, who are these old people dropping their kids off? Yeah. I feel like that and I'm probably a lot older than them. Well, Rob, I think most people are a lot older than you. Yeah, they are. Yeah, they are. You guys are young. You and Natalie.

you know, with kids, with a kindergartener. Yeah, we see people your age at drop off. We've seen Nicole. Yeah, I know. You know, Breyer is signed up for so many things, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, soccer mom. Right? I really want a minivan, though. Like, really.

I'm trying to convince Olivia to get one. She is. She's pitching it hard. To get one for you? No, first she needs a new car. She should get the minivan. I could probably use it. Yeah.

I definitely need a third. third row. Yeah, like the Tesla's got a third. No. I feel like the Tesla's too small for us. It's pretty spacious inside. Is it really? Even...

Because it looks small. Like, we're a lot, like, with our dog and our two boys and... Natalie's got a mid-sized car and my Tesla sedan is, like, more spacious inside. That's why she needs the minivan. I'm telling you. They're nice. They're all, like, super, like, done up. Now.

You drive one, right? No. I wanted one. Don't get me started. My whole car debacle. What happened? Well, then I decided to get a small car. And when it showed up, it had gold seatbelts and gold rooms.

They were bright. And I cried. Just like the plate of cheese. What car was? It was a little Volvo plug-in thing. But it was like Polister. Did they send you what or something? No. No. I actually ordered the car.

And where is it? It's not outside now. No, I cried and I stuck with it for a little bit. And I remember like the first week I had it, a pebble cracked my windshield. Like it was just doomed from the start. I cried and I said, I need a different car. Something always happens to my car the first like two, three weeks I get it to. Always like scratch it or. That's like... And then I'll knock on wood.

I've had cars where nothing has happened after that, though. What happened to the Tesla? My friend Matt opened his minivan door into it and dented the side of it. Oh, Matt's got a minivan. He was borrowing it from his brother when he was in town. You know what was cute is last night when we were at our open house, Jeff saw Jeep, okay? And we've talked about this. Rachel doesn't think he should get a Jeep.

He thinks he should get a Jeep. Anyways, there was this Jeep that was like all swooped up, top off, huge rims that were like bright red. The front of it looked like a shark. Like it was like a thing. And we start talking, the ladies like, oh, I see you're checking out my Jeep. It was a woman's car. And we're like, yeah, the sweetest story I started tearing up.

Oh, no. Yeah. She got it because she had. And of course, she says this to me. She's like, I got it because I have a son who is nonverbal. And, yeah. And he got really into cars and really into trucks. And it was a way of bonding, like going over that.

So she got the car and he helped pick everything out and design it. And it was the way she got him to start talking. And so now she drives around this like swooped up Jeep for her little bowl. Boy. That's so sweet. I can't wait to see what Shepard creates for you. It's going to be a dragon car. That's a good mom.

She's just like, yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. And that's something you would do. And you're going to be rolling around. In a dragon car. 100%. A thousand.

Oh, I love that story. That's really sweet. How do you feel about celebrities protecting their privacy really intensely. Example? Example, like someone says, oh, I don't want anyone to say that about me because I'm incredibly private.

Yeah, do you think going into the industry, you're kind of signing up for that? Yeah, what are your thoughts on that? Because it's something I'm very interested in. Well, I think there's truth to that because you're signing up for it so you know it comes along with it if you succeed, right? And I remember like,

I feel like Johnny Depp would always talk about it's the nature of the beast. Like, you know, it comes along and the paparazzi or whatever it is. You know, I struggle personally a lot with that fine line of like privacy with personal stuff to talking about it

and then the podcast is better. No, I'm kidding. Well, have you felt any relief though when it's like you're controlling what you put out in this space? No, I have an anxiety attack every time anything I say actually is listened to or out there. I fucking freak out. And I'm like, I can't do this.

I can't do this anymore. But it is interesting. That conversation of like celebrities that get super private when they are also signing up for their life. Like, I get it. You're not signing up for your so-called life to be public. However, part of the job is being in the public. eye, right? And so I was trying to explain to my mom because she was like, she hasn't listened to the podcast, which I'm really happy about. But I said, oh, Rachel's very candid. And she's like, that's so

interesting because Rachel's always been so publicly reserved and sweet and polite and man. Like, you're just, you know, the perfect girl next door. And I'm like, yeah, but the people that are really close to her, know the real her. And I feel like you are the real you on this podcast. And like... I'm like having a panic attack right now as we talk about it. Oh, you are? Okay.

No, I just... Because I struggle with that because I don't know. It's a fine line. Like you put yourself out there. Like an example, right? Like the Kardashians who have their show. and everything is put out there pretty much. But they're also massively successful and all of that, right?

So you look at that and you're like, is that just because there's no filter and not a lot of protection, you know, for their privacy? And like, what is that? So, and I know other celebrities that are like very open, like Chrissy Teigen, for example, who just is who she is and like everything's out there. obviously super successful or whatever it is. But then in the acting world, how much do you want to give away

because you are an actor and you are acting and you're doing these characters and whatever? So if you're putting these other things out and people just know you, like, is it harder to differentiate like when you're actually on a job, like playing a part? I don't know.

I hear that. I mean, there's actors like that, like Edward Norton. Oh, right, right. Love Edward Norton. It's intentionally private so that it doesn't affect role. that he has. Right.

To a whole other level. Yeah. But then like you said, there's someone like Johnny Depp that's like, you know, it's par for course. Like, it's trick. Or Brad Pitt. Or Brad Pitt or people that do share, you know, more of themselves.

But what would be the benefit of sharing yourself? Why do you do it? You're asking me? Yeah. Because there's a reason, everything is done with intention. You're not just like, happenstance doing a podcast.

Well, look, there's certain things I think that are important to be transparent about and talk about and like things that are taboo or have stigma, you know, attached. Like we were talking to charity about breastfeeding and all of that. Like, that should be talked about. It shouldn't be a thing. It shouldn't be taboo. It should be like, absolutely, you know, whip your boob out breastfeed. That's the most natural thing on this fucking earth.

So I really like the platform. being able to have the freedom to talk about the things that people are fucking, like, think it's not okay. Yeah, and it sets people free. I think it's helpful that you take that stance and that people see and hear that. Whether it's like parenting things, motherhood things, mental health things, all of these things, people are like, I'm dealing with this or I'm struggling with this or I do this and I feel weird talking about this, but when we can just be so open and being like, hey, I fucking breastfed my kid.

till she was like three years old. And you know what? She was great. It was great. We are so connected and close. And it wasn't weird. It wasn't like that was her food. Yeah, it was her comfort.

There's nothing wrong with choices you make personally in your life or things you're dealing with personally that you feel like you can't talk about. Like, there should be more of an open dialogue, I think, about a lot of these things. Well, and I think like a little. you said the fact that you had kind of this reserved image prior people had of you, I think it is impactful when you come out and share about these things and are able to talk about these things. But I still struggle with it. There's definitely things that I won't share or things that I get uncomfortable that get out there. Yeah, there's obviously a line when you

start talking about other people that are in your lives. You can talk about your own personal experience, no problem. I'm not comfortable talking about other people. Like, I'm not going into detail about other people. You know, I make a joke about something or whatever it is, but I'm not like going in on someone else or telling their stories or their side or whatever. Right. You're not doing their inventory. You're just sharing your experiences. And the letters we get and the notes and the DMs and stuff of how comforting it is for people is really. I think it's really helpful for people to feel like they have a space where they can hear people being real and authentic. And if you didn't do that and you held it so precious, there'd be so many people that wouldn't be affected.

Right. No, I mean, that's one of the biggest points of this is to be able to have that space and create that space. And I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it. Your mouth's bleeding because you're just biting the sets of your cheeks. Yeah, some things I'm like, oh, God. But, you know, I, I, there is truth to how reserved I have been throughout my career. Some of that was influence, I'm sure.

But it also just became like anxiety attached to anything being revealed about myself. And I have to get past that. And it's like working that out too. Well, hopefully in doing this, we'll alleviate that. Well, that's what I'm saying. More and more it happens. Right. That's what I'm saying.

It's like this. And having amazing people on sharing their stories. I thought you're talking about us. I did too. I thought she was like, no. No, no. I did. I thought she was like, and working with amazing people.

And Robin, I smile. And she was like, like Mandy Moore. Yeah. No, but I think it's important. And I love that. we can do this. And, but yeah, I still struggle with it. Like, I still, you know, my lovely anxiety, that's alive and well.

Well, hopefully it'll get better. Yeah. Along the way. As long as Rob stops asking me questions. Yeah. As long as Rob's not here. I can't make any promises, but. But it's also, we've been so fortunate to have people that are willing to go there too.

Yeah. It is. It's like a little therapy session. Totally. with a little joke here and there. Because boy, are we funny. That's right. Well, this has been great, guys.

Over and out. Over and out. Roger that. Goodbye. That was a headgum podcast.