Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Charlotte Lawrence

Episode Date: August 1, 2022

Singer/songwriter and co-writer of the Broad Ideas theme song, Charlotte Lawrence, is this week’s guest-broad! Rachel, Olivia and Charlotte dive into juicy girl-talk centered around young relationships and knowing the difference between love and lust, the spectrum of sexuality, meaningless sex vs. emotional connections and so much more. Charlotte also shares what it was like growing up in Hollywood, her passion for music and her recent introduction into acting. Enjoy! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to broad ideas.

You're not kidding. You should do that. That was real. Go ahead. It reminds me of, hello, is Jane there? Yeah. Sweetest thing. Ever seen it?

Probably. One of our all-time favorite movies. Welcome to broad ideas. Hello. Hello. Go ahead, Rob. Hello. I'm thrilled to have.

I feel like she's like our precious little thing. She is. But she's twice as tall as both of each. She towers over me, but everyone does. What else is new? She's so talented, so beautiful. Just a ray of sunshine, this one. Inside and out.

Yep. And we're so happy she made the time to come out. And talk to us today, the beautiful Charlotte Lawrence, who is an incredible, singer-songwriter, super talented in so many ways. I look up to her literally and figuratively. An actress, she's on a show now.

The girl cannot be stopped. Daughter to Bill Lawrence. Daughter to Bill Lawrence and Krista B. Miller, yeah. Bill Lawrence created a little show called Scrubs. And another little show called Ted Lassow. Cougar Town. Yep. So, so many things. Super talented family, that family.

And obviously her mom was on Scrubs. in Cougar Town. Very funny woman. Beautiful. Courtney Cox. Courtney Cox was on Cougar Town, but she is not in the family. That's not her mom? Rob always here for the insight.

We can cut that, yeah. No, that's good. We're going to leave it. We're going to leave it. Yep, especially because he said cut it. Okay, well, let's welcome the beautiful, amazing Charlotte Lawrence. Sometimes when the work inside of Rachel's little bring, all the starts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride.

We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that are neat. Because people die. Wait, first let me just say that Charlotte is here with us. Oh, yeah. Shar and our other best friend Leah wrote our theme song. Okay?

Which is... Do you love it? How fun is it? Obsessed. Every time I hear it, I'm like, oh, my God, it's so good. Yes, our beautiful Charlotte Lawrence, who is an amazing singer-vocist, learist, all of it. And we're so lucky that you and Leah both did that for us. Thank you.

We had so much fun. Oh, my God. When you sent it that first night, you guys, just on your couch, like, riffing and we died. But do you know what I loved is that Leah and I sent a voice memo to you guys in the voice that we all use of the And I listen to the theme song and the girl like there's parts of it that she does it Because everyone does. I know that's my favorite part. I thought the same thing.

I'm like, how did she catch that moment? Because that's such like an intimate kind of thing that we all do. And she got it. She did. She got it. She got it. She nailed it. It's also so fun to like write a song.

Even if it's a theme song, you know, it's like not a serious, like whatever, but and have somebody else sing it. So it's really fun. It was a fun little thing. It was fun. So you like that. Because normally obviously you sing all your songs you write. So. Yeah, but it was like it was fun to, it was fun to just write something. Writing is where I is my number one is my number one. Writing is my number one. That it was fun to be able to write something and like have it have its own life. And you know what I mean? Yeah. And. And. Yeah. Have you done that? Have you done that? Let's work. No, but I would. I have so many songs. I was actually just thinking about this yesterday. I have so many songs that I've written that have never come out.

I've probably like at least 200 songs that will never see the light of day solely because I wrote them when I was very young and they're very just, I don't know, experimental, pop whatever, not my sound, doesn't fit now, whatever the story may be that I'll never use. And I was like, maybe I should start pitching them to artists. How cool would that be if I like, I don't know. if somebody young who doesn't write their own songs wanted to sing like a cool song or it would be so sick for me to hear it have its own life rather than just be thrown away. I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you should share that talent.

Thank you. I could totally see that. What's your favorite song you've written? This song called Body Bag. Me too. It's going to come out so soon. Yeah? Oh, that's so exciting.

I'm really excited. I know. It's been like hell to finish it. Really? Because, okay, the problem with body bag, it's like my baby song, like my precious, like, I was in such a fragile, like, terrified mental state writing it. And I was just not there presently, physically in my body in any sort of way in my real life. And what happened is like I went into the studio. And it was like everything that I hadn't been feeling for the past however many weeks just all came out.

And I, like, I blacked out. left the studio, didn't think twice about it, got sent the song, and heard it. And I was like, oh, I made something that I am so proud of and so in love with and can, we'll shout it on top of the rooftops. Because like, I'm somebody, I mean, you know this especially, but I'm someone that like, I will always shy away from talking about what I do and what I like to do and my talents per se or songs, whatever, because I get like almost guilty of like, I want to stay humble, I guess, and like, not be that person. It's like, I want major success. And, you know, and this and a hit song and this,

because I just feel like, icky saying it sometimes, but it was the first time with this song that I was like, I love this song so much. I'm so proud of it. I want to fucking perfect it and get every single note, write, every production,

make an amazing music video and give it the best shot it can get so I can like, so I can just, I want everyone to hear this song. Like, I'm so proud of it. I'm like, it helps me and I love it

and it helped me get through my shit. And even now listening to it, I'm like, I can feel what I'm saying and be, like, holy shit, like, you're right, dude. Like, I get you. And I want other people, I want so many people to be able

to listen to it and be like, oh my God, like, this is exactly how I feel and like, oh my God, she's taking the words out of my mouth or whatever it may be, because that's how I am with other music, you know, so I like, I don't know. It's like the first time that I was able to be like, oh my gosh, I want it to be the biggest song in the world and I want millions of people to hear it and to perform it in front of, you know,

and be able to say that and not feel like embarrassed by saying that. Right. No, you shouldn't. I love that one. I feel like that too happens when things come through you. Like it sounds to me like that song just came through you. Oh, completely. It was no effort, which is weird to say again. It's also very different.

It's like I have one of my other favorite songs I've ever written that I love took like fucking weeks to finish. And sometimes that's just what it is. You have a great chorus and you have to rewrite the verse as a million times or replay the guitar as a million times until it sounds good. and it takes so long to finish. And then you finally finish it. And you're like, oh, my God, all this work was worth it.

And it's a completed song. And it's amazing. And I'm so proud of it. And it's awesome. But other times it's like you're in the studio for two hours. And you've completed everything written, everything done immediately. There's no method to the madness of, which is, you know, songwriting. But I think when you hit that stride, that special moment, when it feels like nothing is coming out of your brain.

and it's coming from something else through you. And it's just like, you know. Just feel it. It's just a feeling that it's coming out. It's like it's such a special moment. It's why we do what we do. It's like when you click that, oh, crap. Yes.

Yeah. I just reach something on a higher level or whatever it is, you know? Right. Well, so did you always like growing up and stuff, music was always your love and your passion? Or what was that? Like, always. Yeah. Which is so weird.

Neither of my parents can sing. That's crazy to me because your voice is one of the most beautiful. angelic, like insane voices I've ever heard. So you're like, where does that come from? Like, how do you do that? Thank you. It's really funny. Neither of my parents can sing. I mean, I love my parents deeply, but they're both tone deaf, like genuinely can't sing at all. And like, they sing and I'm like, do you hear that you're out of time and like that not one note that you're singing is in the song? But I love them again. They're amazing. And neither of my grandparents can sing. Like they can like hum a little, but like no one is musical. But my father's a writer. So I think I got

all my writing jeans from my father. And my mother has the most incredible music taste of all time. Like always, I just grew up around amazing music. And it was like, The Beatles were the first band I heard coming out of the womb. It was just like proper, really good music and good songwriting. Joni Mitchell, Massey Star, Fiona Apple, like true singer songwriters. So I grew up around a lot of creativity. And obviously they're in the television world, which is one form of entertainment. You know, everything is coinciding in one way or the other. But with, music, I really don't know where it came from. I was just always like, I was the kid in the car that would harmonize with every single song and my mom would be like, how does that sound good?

Like, that doesn't make sense. Like, we don't know how to do that. And I feel like songwriting, I put my 10,000 hours in and I fucking worked my ass off and I read enough books and wrote enough songs and collaborated with so many people that I'm like really perfected my. And I obviously, I don't want to say perfected because as I keep working and growing and writing and doing more, I'm going to look back in five years from now and be like, oh, when I was 22 and doing this podcast, I thought I knew all the shit, but I don't.

But I feel like my songwriting, like I'm like, I got that. Like, that is something I worked hard on and is something that I like earned the right to say I'm a great songwriter in the sense of like I've just, I pushed myself and I got to that point. But singing, I never took really like singing lessons. I never, I mean, I did eventually when I was going on tour to help with like breathing and stuff.

But I do feel that that's one thing I was just born with because I like from a baby would just I always wanted to sing I just loved it and it was like I was born with a love of singing so I think that just turned into what it is natural gift is what it is like but even songwriting too like whether you read books or whatever it's not something you can learn like I think you are gifted. Thank you. Born gifted that way and it shows and for everyone listening and I'm just going to say you know your dad Bill Lawrence and your mom Krista Miller Krista B Miller yeah. Yeah. Krista Miller yeah. I don't know how she said it about it. I don't obviously, you know, Scrubs Cougartown, Ted Lassout, like your dad has done a ton and your mom's

been in a lot of them as well. So you grew up in this world of the center of Hollywood. The center of Hollywood sets, you know, shows, the hours, the things that come along with it. But you kind of, you stayed away from the acting part of it or, but like, until now. Until now. Until now. It's so funny that you said that because I was talking about this with my dad the other day. I think as a kid, you either. want to do exactly what your parents do and fall in their footsteps, or you want to do the opposite and shy away from it. And I was always the kid that was like, I'm independent and I'm going to do what I want, and I never listen, and I would sneak out and break the rules. And like, I was that kid. So obviously, I was going to choose something entirely different. But I think

growing up in Los Angeles, in the center of it all, and yes, being on sets and walking out of my bedroom at like seven years old to crazy, a big Hollywood dinners with crazy actors, I was It was just like, holy shit, like this is a whole different world than my friends and I live in on the daily basis. Like, this is just such a crazy different world. And I always shied away from it because I always believed that the actors that I met were a little more kooky than the musicians that I met. I'll take the safe route. But I love that. I also think it was a lot of ego and pride because being a songwriter at my core, I felt so,

lucky and I do. I feel so lucky that everything that becomes public, like in regards to releasing a song or singing a song, performing a tour, whatever, whatever it may be is all my own feelings, my own words, my own vision. And it's like, I'm the director, producer, editor, this, whatever it may be, because it's like, okay, this is what I feel, this is what I'm going through. I'm going to choose how much of that I'm going to let people see. I'm going to write it out exactly how I want people to hear it. And then I'm going to put it out there. Yeah. So it's like being in total control of your creative. vision. And with acting before I ever indulged in it, I kind of viewed it, and this is wrong,

I'll say this before I say it, but I viewed it as kind of more similar to modeling than I did to music in the sense of, oh, you're like a puppet that is performing somebody else's vision and creative vision and emotions and what they want to say. And you're just like the puppet, you know, doing whatever they want with strings being pulled. And I was like, I don't want that. Like, I have something to say and I want to be able to say it. And that's like, Like, you know, that's who I want to be. And as I got older, I was like, no, no, no, no, that's not what it is at all, obviously. And I'm still learning.

I've only done one acting job so far. But I'm going in classes and I'm seeing a coach and I'm taking it seriously right now. I'm seeing this guy, Anthony Mindell, have you ever heard of him? He's really, he's amazing. He's lovely. He's like a wonderful, lovely man. I just met him through my agency and we just, like, connected immediately. And he's just been the loveliest, kindest, like.

best human, helps me with everything, but also, like, he has his whole own way of teaching. I don't know how to describe it. It's very, like, just getting to know the character. I don't know. He's really great. But I very soon realized that 90% of acting is you. It's like, to be a good actress, you have to show all of your own emotions and natural, true, vulnerable emotions as to what you'd be responding to in a real life situation. Like, if I was just, like, sitting with you reading the lines that were written, I would be a shit actress because you'd not see any emotion or any, like, true. Or like what acting is, is like, you know, to look like you're not acting is what the goal of acting.

So it's like I slowly realize that like, oh, no, no, no. All I have to do is completely tone into exactly how I feel and what I'm going through in this moment. And what you're saying is making me feel and express myself and portray my emotions or whatever it is through my just genuine emotions and not through my words. So I fell in love with it because I was like, oh, no, it's just like it's another vessel to be able to show your emotions. and like, and be true to yourself in one way or the other. You're not a puppet. But it made me dislike modeling a little more because I was like, that's what modeling.

Not that really. You are. You are, but this one isn't. But I've been loving it. Basically, I'll tell the story and then obviously we can move on a story. I'm like rambling on. But what happened was I was in Seattle making my record, which is almost done. And I got like four texts from my actress first.

that were like, oh my God, I just audition for your dad's show. And I was like, what are these girls who are my height, look like me, my age, like kind of similar vibe, auditioning for that I don't know about. Right. And obviously, I was like, oh, congratulations. Like awesome. So cool, like great. But I was like, wonderful like I said. So I texted my dad's assistant who was my former nanny, Brittany, who like I grew up with.

She's, and she's now my roommate, which is so funny. But she's like one of my best friends, like just the fucking funniest, like, down-to-earth, like, badass bitch you've ever met in your entire life. Like, she is like, she gets it. Right. You know, like, she gets it. And Brittany, I texted her and I was like,

what is this? Like, what are, what are all these girls auditioning for? What is this? And she immediately probably was like, oh my God, everything just clicked for me. Like, you have to read for this. Like, just do it. Like, I will help you with whatever.

Like, just do it. You got to do it. Like, it just everything clicked. This is you. You're Caitlin. You got to do it. And I was like, all right. Like, let me read the fucking script first.

And I read the script. And immediately the character resonated with me on such another level. I was like, I did self-tapes in the past, you know, for little things, like when it felt exciting. And it was hard for me to like memorize shit. Like it was a hard, it's a hard process to get into it. And it was so, it just came so naturally and felt so easy. And I think a big part of that was like my dad's writing and he's writing a 20-something-year-old former model. It's like, he's going to probably be like inspired by his own 20-something model daughter.

So it just was so quick and easy. And what I did was I made, I literally stayed up until like 3 a.m. And made five different self-tapes. And I sent them to Brittany. And we went through them. And we were like, okay, this one is this. This one is this. Like, what a, okay, this is the one.

And we perfected it. I edited it. Like, did the whole thing. And I didn't say my name or anything. And I told Brittany, I was like, give it to the casting director and say it's top priority to watch so that like it gets seen in a mess. Right. But not saying who you are.

But don't say who I am. And I didn't know what was going to happen. And Brittany didn't tell me, like, nothing, no one told me anything. I get a call for my dad two weeks later. And he was like, what the fuck? And he told me that the casting director came to him and was like, here's our top five picks for Caitlin. And I was in the top five. I'm going to cry.

It makes me want to cry. It was so amazing. And obviously, obviously, I would not have gotten the part if my father wasn't my father. Maybe. Maybe there could have been a small chance that maybe I could have. But I know my advantages and my, how blessed I am. And the fact that my dad is the fucking showrunner, writer, the whole thing, like how, you know, how I have a huge leg up on a million other actresses. And I feel a little guilty about that, but more so, like, it pushed me more.

And it made me go, one of my dad and I first had that talk, he was like, are you serious about this? And I was like, if you give me this part, I will see an acting coach once a week. I will know all of my lines back and fucking forth. I'll know everybody else's lines. I'll be the most over-prepared. I will kill it. It'll be my priority. You'll never see me late, miss anything.

Like, I will be there and do it and kill it. Because I'm like, here's the thing. Like, you can say nepotism as many times as you fucking want. You can scream it up my face and I'll take it because there is a truth in that. But you'll never be able to say I sucked because I'm going to fucking put my all into it. Yes. And I did. And I have.

And we're about to film the last episode in like a week. And it's like the last thing of it. And I'm like, it's just been the most incredible. It's been so fun. It's been amazing. I do want to say something that I think is really important, knowing you personally and knowing your background and where you come from and who your parents are and every person that you're around and everything in your life, you are legitimately. Look, I have chills. You're someone I truly look up to. I mean that because you're salt of the fucking earth, Charlotte. It's a truth. The minute, you know, something goes wrong with

one of my kids, you're having doctors call me. Not just saying, like, do you need anything like people do? I'm not kidding when I say doctors are calling me being like Charlotte wanted me to check in. And, you know, you're the first person there with like something at the door for us when one of the kids are sick. Like, I want to think of people as much as you do. And yes, you know that you're gifted and privileged and all of those things, but your generosity. makes it all okay. Thank you. I love you.

And I love your kids. So it's like, you know, I love you and I love your kids. That it's like, if I love someone, I love someone and it's going to be, it will be shown, as I think everything should be. It's also, it's like with the pandemic and all this craziness of life that is life, I've experienced like some real adult type of death and loss and weird experiences that I was like, oh, this hit me fast. I'm not a kid anymore. And the biggest thing it's teaching me is, like, if you love someone, like, always tell them, always show them, always put the people that you love first in your life above anything superficial. And that has given me happiness over anything. Where did that come from? Like, my dad is, is like, I mean, you say Ted Lassow. It's so funny because watching Ted Lassow, I laugh extra hard than anybody else laughs because I'm like, it's just my dad.

I'm like, it's just, it's my father. Like, he doesn't have a mean bone in his body. Right. He's never raised his voice at us. He, like, he worked his fucking, and my mom again is lovely and the kindest and the best, but my mom has, like, that mean, like, like the funny mean, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Like, like, a boss-ass bitch, but, like, the funniest person I've ever met, but, like, a dark humor type of, like, a mean, funny humor. Yeah. But my dad is, like, the sweet, gentle, like, he can't. It's like the joke on set even, which, like, which I'm. I love that I'm like in on the jokes on set. You know what I mean? But it's like the joke on set that it's like the person that was quote unquote fired like first

week because it wasn't good at what they were doing is now has another job working at this and this. It's like he can't like he doesn't know how to fire people. He doesn't all of his assistants that have ever worked for him are now like executive like big producers. Cool. Like I don't know. He's just like all he wants is for other people to be happy and he puts everybody else

above himself. And it's so. And obviously, like, you know, there is a part of self-love and this that you should always prioritize yourself, always. But I look at my dad and he only cares about making everybody else happy and just being kind to everyone. And he's just like a kind, gentle, kind kind of person. Yeah. I think there's a lot to be said for that. Like, a lot of it is your upbringing and, you know, your parental figures and your support system. Obviously, Olivia, yours is a little different because you turned out, you're like, you did all the work and, you know, that's-

It did the work. That's a whole other story. But it's true, you know, it's who you're brought up by and having a figure like that, you know, is such a good example. And you're obviously, but you're particularly special. And we can say that because we know you on a very, like, personal level. But that's not something you come by very often. And like you were saying, like, yes, privilege. Like, it's your dad's show.

And he has these successful shows. And there's a lot of people out there who would give anything. But you don't take any of it for granted. And you acknowledge. I try not. All of that. But how did your friends take it? The ones that text you there are auditioning. I don't know. I don't know how to say it. They definitely know because like one of them is one of my best friends. And I told, she was like asked me what I was doing. Like a week after a show. I was like, I'm in Miami shooting a show. She's like, what show? I'm like, the one you audition. Yeah. I feel bad because they were all incredible too. My dad was like would tell me like, oh, X, Y, and Z was so amazing. Because he knows them because they're your friends. Yeah. But again, also like my friends are fucking rad. I have the coolest.

friends. And my girlfriend, who I'm talking about, my best friend who audition for it, as I'm telling her about this role, she was, like, shooting a rad movie in New Orleans and, like, doing, like, killing it. Like, she did not need this TV show. She already is, like, going to blow up on her own acting-wise. So it's, like, it's not like I stole anything from her, you know what I mean, that I would feel horrible about, but, like, because, you know. But they know, they'll know when it comes out. She knows. But we, like, didn't get deep into it. Because I just, I'm like, it's like, also, it's just a little, It's a little awkward. You're just like, sorry. It's like, sorry. You know, it's so interesting, because when Olivia and I were your age and we were both auditioning and best friends, there is a little bit of that.

Well, I don't know, maybe it's not your relationship isn't like this, but we did deal with a little bit of competitiveness and, you know. We did. No, like that. You're like when, tell me now. I'm like Rachel won that round. No, but it is a thing, you know. If you're a passion about what you want to do, It's the competitive. You can't shy away from that. It's bound to come out. Well, it's also what it is.

If you're trying to do this thing in this business and all of that, it's hard to kind of get away from that. But I remember I used to have to hide my auditions. Not from you. Oh, I was like from you. Did your audition? No, but this is back when fax machines were a thing and we'd get auditions. And you could like hear the fax machine.

You'd get auditions via facts. Yes. Yeah, the fax machine would go. We're like, we do self-tapes via like iPhones. No, we had a fax. In two minutes, it's done. Yeah, I remember I auditioned for Marissa on O.C. I remember that.

And I remember reading it and being like, I want to play that part. Yeah, and I was like, you should audition for summer. Did you read it with Olivia? Like, did you? I probably did practice. Yeah, we used to go to our auditions together. Yeah. Yeah.

That's amazing. We did. I love that. But it's bound. I feel like it's a healthy competition, too. Because even if you are so fucking competitive, when the role is announced, like, you are happy for your best friend, regardless of what it is. And then you move on to the next, you know? Like, that's the same with I've had all my girlfriends. You know this new movie Bullet Train? Yes. Yeah. So Joey King booked it. Yeah. Who's phenomenal. I was going to murder it. But like I audition, Kara audition, Kaya audition. We all like did it together. Like all of our girlfriends audition for the part of Joey King. And it was such a cool. It was like, you know, it's a huge bread or something. Yeah. Yeah. And that was what it was, like, presented at. It was just like Brad Pitt attached, big action, awesome movie.

There was like a week that we were all like, hey, what are you doing? Oh, nothing. Like, we were all kind of like, shying away vague about it. And then found out after that we all auditioned and no one got the part and we like giggled about it. And we're so happy for Joey. But it's like you have to have a little competitiveness because if you're not, like you're never going to fucking succeed. Did you want to go on American Idol as a kid? Oh my God.

Yeah. I feel like everybody did. But as you get older, too, you kind of realize, like, where did the people that, you know, I know, American Idol go? You're like, well, there's Kelly Clarkson. There's Kelly Clarkson. She did it. She did it.

Carrie Underwood. Carrie Underwood. But they didn't win, though, right? Didn't they, like, not win? I feel like Kelly did. Maybe Kelly did or, like, Carrie didn't. Yeah, I think you're right. Right?

Do you know what I find fascinating, though, is I feel like when I was your age and we were auditioning, the whole messaging was like, you can't care so much. because I feel like I cared so much. And everyone was like, you have to not need it, not want it. And then it comes to you. And so I remember being like, okay, I'm supposed to. Or like, you don't need them. They need you.

Yeah. So I would like underprepare to be like, I don't care. I don't need this. You know? And the truth is I wanted it with all of my heart. But I was being taught not to care and not to put too much into it because it's the cool thing to do. Yeah. And now I'm hearing.

like from someone Yeah Which is amazing Because I'm like that's the truth Like that's you are being vulnerable By saying yes I want this And I'm going to do everything possible to get it I want it so badly

Yeah I also think it's like it's just Anything in life You're not going to get it unless you work at it Nothing comes easy As much as you think some things can come easy And some things do come to you And especially in relationships

Like what you're saying of like You know that if you're looking for love and searching for love, you're not going to find it. Like the second that you're comfortable with yourself and like let it go, that's when it comes to you. Yeah. There is truth in that in a way of like if you love yourself and like let go of everything, it'll come to you, it'll find you. So you brought up like to flip it a little bit like relationships, right? And like that mentality of doing the work and then it comes to you.

Like Olivia did, what's the book you did? Calling in the one. Calling in the one. And it literally called in Jeff, right? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Well, I did a lot more than this book. She just did this book. No, I actually did one book and then then poof. I did that book when we broke up. We broke up and then I, instead of going out and dating other people, I started doing that book. And then he came back. It was doing the work on yourself. It was. But I have a little tricky relationship with that because

I feel like everyone's like, oh, you have to completely let it go. Right. Like I was focusing on myself 100% and self-love and growth and all of that. And yes, he came during that time. But I never let go of wanting love. From him particularly, you mean? No, I just, I mean, in general. You never got to the point. Like, I'm fine on my own. I can be alone. I don't need. No, I mean, I was fine and I was doing it, but it wasn't like. You still wanted to be loved. Yes. I still wanted love. It's the universal. Right. I think it's impossible to, even if you're in your most, you know, highest version. of yourself, working on yourself, I think it's impossible to not want to be loved. It's like, it's all what we were made to do is to be loved. Absolutely. I love love love love, like I am a

sucker for a romantic movie comedy. You know, I'm like, that's what I want. You're also a sucker for love. I am. You are a sucker for love. I love hard. I feel like you and I are similar in how we love of like, I dive the fuck in. Like I dive all in. I'm not shy about it. All in in relationships. All in. Yeah. For sure. Bigger heartbreak. But it's fun when it's fun. It's fun when it's fun. Exactly. But that's the thing, you know,

and I definitely have gotten places in my life where I'm like, I'm totally fine, like, on my own, you know? But the preference to have that, you know, it's just so interesting to me, like people and how different they can be and how they approach things. Like, Leah, for instance, in relationships, like she's an amazing partner, you know? She is.

But she's also, like, so independent. Yeah. You know, in ways that I can't be. And you and I are similar in codependency. I'm very codependency too. Yeah. I'm like that as well. Yeah.

It's just, it's fascinating that it can go that way. But I do think there is value in being alone and being okay alone. Rob, are you okay alone? Are you okay, Rachel? I'm not okay. She was like, I do think this is okay. But I also think that there's a huge difference between being okay alone and preferring to be alone. Correct. Yes? I do not prefer to be alone. And I actually, I don't even know if I'm okay to be alone because I've hopped from, I'm like, I was going to say, well, have you been alone? I've kind of been, it's really funny. I'll say you funny. But I've changed, obviously. And I've now been in almost four-year relationship that has been very adult and lovely. And I have not cheated or even.

even played with the idea of cheating once. But my thing, which was my thing for a second. And I also was young and just didn't care. Like I was just like, I'm going to do what I want to do and not care about what I'm doing. But my thing was like roommates and best friends. Like, I'm such a people's person that whoever I'm around, if I make a connection with you, like, I will fall in love with you. Like, I've been in love with multiple people at one time. And what my thing was, is as a kid is I was like, I would have a boyfriend. And then I'd meet his best. friend. But then I saw you a best friend. And I, we'd be together every day. We'd all, oh, let's go hang out. All three of us. Let's go hang. And then I'd fall in love with the best friend. And I'd be too terrified to break up with the boyfriend that I had because I would be so afraid of breaking hearts or disappointing or whatever it would be.

Then instead, I would cheat on him with his best friend and immediately tell him about it and be like, I hooked up with this person and I'm going to go date him now. So that it would be like, I'd literally switch this, like, immediately day of. have a new boyfriend, have the best friend be the boyfriend, date him for a while, and then do it again. And the next one came out. But it was like a thing that I like, I couldn't, it almost felt like I couldn't help myself. Like I was so open, but also closed off in the sense of like when I loved one person, I loved one person.

But if some other person came that I like felt a connection with that was more than like the pointless whatever connections of friends or this or that, there was like a little spark, it would be like, oh, I'm going to marry this person. Right. Right. But you haven't felt that in the past four years with your relationship now. But also he resulted from, it wasn't cheating, but he was the best friend. He wasn't a best friend, but like I dated his friend before I dated him.

But it's kind of a sticky situation because I didn't really date. It was like a very like. Casual. It was casual. And they weren't like BFFs. And it wasn't as like purposeful as the previous like roommate best friend. situations were. With me, it's like, I'm shy to, I'm not shy.

I'm very fucking extroverted, but I'm like, I choose carefully who I trust and who I lend to my life. And I will show everybody the version of me that I choose to show. But you'll never see me cry unless we're like, have been best friends for 10 plus years. Like, you know what I mean? And like, I'm very, I choose what I guard. And if, if I meet someone that I feel like I can trust, I'm like, I'm just, I'm all in. and I'm attached immediately.

Right. But yeah, this one, no. It's like I just kind of changed because I got cheated on and I was like, oh, this is what it feels like. Like, it's not just like something that happens

and you get over. Like, it's a fucking painful thing that sticks with you. And I never want to make anybody feel like that. So I stopped doing that. But I definitely loved the roommates for a second. Yeah. But also, isn't this your first,

it is more of an adult relationship. It is very adult. It is my first. relationship, I would say period. As much older guys as I used to date when I was younger, they were all fucking children. And I was a child. Like, we were all like children. And we just wanted to go out and it was all, you know, fun and games. But yeah, it's also like, I feel like this relationship, and I think everybody will say this, you know, like, when you find your person or find the one that you truly, like, are deeply in love with, every other relationship

I had in my life, I was like, oh, it wasn't love. Like, that was lust or that was like, young, sweet. We were always meant to be friends. or whatever it may be, but like I feel like it's the first time I've been in true love. And what true love feels to me is not what it used to be in the past of like craziness and hectic, like, oh, like, you're the forbidden fruit because you're best friends with my current boyfriend and like, you're, you know, what I'm in love with you because like I can't have you and I need you and I'm in love and blah blah. But it's like true love, I feel like is just when you hit that stride of calmness and

comfort that you don't feel like, I don't know, much fear about like what's going to happen or what's what it is or what it means or anything at all. Like when you just have like a sort of like steady understanding of like, okay, like our souls, our insides, our hearts like genuinely love each other and are deeply intertwined and connected. And no matter what the fuck happens, whether we get married and have kids or we break up tomorrow or we never see each other again or we fall in deeper love by the second like no matter what it is, this connection that we have, love is so true and so real that it'll always stay like that. Like I know it. And I'm not saying that this is going to happen. But if we broke up and I started dating another person, I would know that

this relationship is one that will be in my heart forever. That it's like no matter what. It's like you when you build that true connection, that true like, okay, we both have this. It's mutual. It's a deep like adult, real loving thing. It's just like it'll always stay in that vein in that world, you know? I believe that. And I also think that another good way to tell if it is real love is you feel the most like yourself with that person. Oh, completely. Agreed. And that's what I feel like you have is like you are a thousand percent you. You are not hiding any version of you.

No. And I'm also not afraid to be like embarrassing or like. Right. You know, I feel like in previous relationships, like if I would feel jealous about something or like annoyed about something. would know be self-aware enough to be like, oh, if I met this girl, like, I would think she was a fucking weirdo. Like, I would not be friends with this type of girl who's like the jealous, whatever, and like would watch myself always, even if it wasn't, you know, a big deal. And it was just me being in my head, which it probably was because I'm an anxious person that over fucking thinks everything. And I just like, I feel like now in this relationship, like, if I am bothered by

something, I'm going to fucking say it immediately. And I'm going to still recognize like, oh, this is a cringy version of me. But it's okay to be that because I'm like, if I feel fearful or weird or something off, I'm going to fucking say it rather than have it, you know, resonate and just stay in my body and then come out in other ways or another. And what I've learned, too, by doing that,

by being my most honest self, it allows my partner to be his most honest self and also cater to that. And I don't get the reaction of what the fuck, that you're, you know, afraid of of like being that jealous, whatever, whatever it may be, suspect type girlfriend. But I get a reaction of like, thank you for being honest. Like, how do we work through this together? And then it's solved and done with. The maturity level to you and your relationships.

Like, it took me, you know, 20 years or whatever it is to get to that space to be like, no, like, this is who I am. We're going to talk about it. And it's amazing because I really am. I keep thinking of us at 22. And I'm like, there's no chance in hell that we would be that evolved to delay. Not at all. those conversations. No, I was pretending to be cool. I was still liking the best friends. It's so funny. I feel like it's a universal thing. It's like everybody will fall in love with like either a best friend or a roommate or someone. Because also like who you're around is just like who you're bound to be. We made a song. And then I saw your own best friend

in my memory bank. I'm like, I sing the song. I thought you were really cute. Really nice. But then I saw your best friend. Because it also is that like forbidden fruit. You know what I mean? That's a huge thing. It's a huge thing. It's real. I think that there's still aspects of that even as you get older and grow up.

Like the forbidden fruit, there's something always going to be attractive about that. But it's what you act on and what you don't. Yeah. And I also think like when I was younger, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between, oh, this is just forbidden fruit I want when I can't have versus love or lust or even just real like true emotions for somebody. And as I get older, I'm able to be like, okay, this like pointless, mindless crush is only a crush because, like, we're in a fight and it's the one person that I know would like fucking kill if I ex-well. You know what I mean? Like, I've been able to tell the difference between, oh, this what I have right now is a true deep, loving relationship, like filled with, you know, real, hard, like, hard fucking work to get to the place that we are today. And like, big ups, big downs and just like, we, like, we. put in the work and we've grown and we're more in love every day. And like I see it. And like even when we have bad days, I'm like, okay, but we still like we have this special like incredible,

beautiful thing that I would never want to fucking ruin over a mindless right, whatever it is. And I know that it's like my level of respect for my partner and respect for our relationship and what it's become to this day because it's not always been like this. It was very up and down as Olivia knows the intricates of. And you honestly probably. know all the end of it's up to. I'm like, you both do. But I feel like it's just come to this place that I was like, I would never, ever, ever, ever ruin the respect. And even if we came to a point that we were out of love or something we just didn't want to be together anymore, or we wanted space or whatever it may be, I'd still never want to ruin the love and respect. And I'd still want

it to be a very like amicable, kind and loving and honest ending that it's not filled with cheating or this or lying or whatever so that like we always again maintain the connection that is love. Yeah. But I also think it's like as humans, I believe in monogamy completely and I believe at least for me individually I need to be in a monogamous relationship. I don't think I could ever handle emotionally, mentally, physically ever being in an open relationship. Like I think it would kill everything inside of me.

But I do believe that humans in general weren't built for monogamy in regards to emotions. No. It's how long we live. Literally. I think it's like we humans, like, especially those that are maybe more empathetic or more, you know, open or like feel like they've toned into their, you know, highest self in one way or the other are more susceptible to loving all different types of people and falling in love with different people. And I feel like humans can love and be in love with multiple people at one time. And I feel that in myself, whether it be like friendships, my boyfriend, whatever it may be. But like, I don't know.

But yeah, but how do you feel about that on the other side? On the other side? Yeah. Yeah, no, no. Exactly. That's how we are too. We're both like, yeah, we understand that. Totally.

Makes sense. You know, we love a few people, but the other side, fuck hell. I just watched. Did you guys watch that documentary? What is it called? Keep it sweet. Keep sweet. Pray, obey. Oh, I saw that. Somebody didn't watch it. I didn't watch it myself. I saw the trailer for it. Is it like the Keep sweet obey? It's like. Keep sweet, pray, obey. Something like that. Oh, my God. I was obsessed with it. And I brought up a good quest. What is it? It's about polygamy. Polygamy. And I watched it and then I asked Jeff. I'm like, you know, it's so confusing. Obviously in this documentary, it goes south. And it's like, okay, no, that's. like completely absurd because they're, you know, marrying off underage women or children. What?

Sorry. Not women. Children. But when watching it, I'm like, why is that illegal to marry multiple people? Like, what is that? Like, why can't we marry multiple people if one would want to? I don't want to. I don't want to.

I don't want to at all. But I'm just curious. I get multiple husbands or? No, you'd have to be a wife. You'd have to be a. You'd have to be a. It's a sister-wife. Although I do understand the appeal to sister wives in the sense of having a communal, you know, yes. Society that you all help with the children. I'm all for that, but not sharing the dude.

It's also, though, like, I've seen other things on, like, Mormonism type polygmy. It's the fundamentalist. Yeah. I feel like there's a difference between, like, being in love with multiple people and then just, like, wanting to put your seed in multiple women. and like I feel like a lot of dudes in Mormonism, like, he's not loving all of his wives or like spending like intimate time with all of them. I feel like they're just like, let's make a bunch of fucking babies and like, you know. I think one man had 64 wives, I think. What? 64. That's crazy. How does even know their names? It's like Elon Musk trying to fucking overpopulate the world right now. It's like he's not like he wants to fall in love with a bunch of people. He's like, no, I want my genetics to be to be in this new generation as many times as I can put

them in. But the weird thing is like every time I watch one of those cult things in the beginning, it's like, all right. This isn't like so bad. Like, yeah, me too. I'm like, I would maybe join this. But then by the end, I'm like, okay, that's why we don't join cults. Yeah, never mind. Lesson Learned. Yeah. But I don't know. I think also there's such a big difference. Like, it's so weird the aspect of cheating, polygamy, monogamy, all this stuff. Because I feel like I know a lot of people in open relationships that they're totally unbothered by like mindless sex, that they're like, they have lock. And I almost have like true respect for these people because I'm like, you have figured something out that I haven't figured out that you're able to recognize,

okay, this man is not like me that if I have sex with somebody, like you're going to be in my life. Like, first of all, I'm not going to have sex with you unless we already have a connection. Like I can't just do like an one-off random. Like you're either a deep friend of mine or we already have a connection or you're my boyfriend or whatever it may be like I can't like I can't have emotionless sex it just doesn't work for me I need to feel connected to the person and safe and comforted and loved and warm and whatever way it is yeah but with men not to stereotype all men but I think a lot of the men I know genuinely can have sex and look at it as just a fucking hole that they're getting off on and it's nothing they won't even remember the girl the next day and it's nothing about the girl but

it's just like nah I wanted to get off so I got off or I was drunk and I did this and it's like they don't need to have that deep emotional connection. Right. Most of the time, not most of the time, but a lot of the times, it's mindless and empty. And the girlfriends that I have that are happy and willing and like preferring open relationships have come to that point that they're like, yeah, well, he loves me. He only loves me. He only wants to be with me and date me and love me.

But he can have sex with whoever he wants this fucking mindless emotion. Like, I'm going to go do it. I'm going to go have sex with who I want if I want to like go go up. fun, but then we're each other's person. And I'm like, how do you share, like, how do you share your partner like that? Like, I couldn't, the visual of like my partner, even just like, holding hands with another girl, I like want to punch him in the face. It makes me want to throw up. I know someone who is sleeping with and kind of, I guess, dating someone who has a fiancee. The fiance fully knows, like they've been around the two of them together and it's not a thing. It's crazy. I just couldn't do it.

What? I know, like, I know people can do it. And I, I, I, I know people can do it. And I, I, I, respect it. I'm like, I can't. I'll have that in my brain. That's great. I feel like Leah's like open enough to like explore that if she needed to or whatever in certain circumstances. Maybe if she would, but I don't know if Leah would do it herself as much as she would be okay with the. Yeah. Because she's talked me down off of ledges before when I'm like, but blah blah, blah. And like he wants X, Y and Z in the past. And she's like, babe, it was just sex. It was nothing. He loves you. It doesn't mean anything. I'm like, but, but. I know. But she's right. You know, she has a deeper understanding, I think, that we respond emotionally and we're like, no, it's intimacy. And Leah's like, it's sex.

From like a male perspective, if Natalie, you know, would you like, how would you feel about that? I would not be super into that. It's also person to person. Right. You know? Like many men I know. Like, for example, my boyfriend, like I've forgiven him in the past for hurting me in one way or the other. And if I as much as kissed another boy, like, he'd never speak to me again.

And that's not saying anything negative about him. It's genuinely that he loves me so much. I truly believe the thought of sharing me with someone, even if it was such in a little way, he would never be able to get over it. And he would just like... And it's not like that he wants to own me, but he wants to like...

He wants me to be all his, only his... His fucking girl. Like, you know? And like nobody else is. And I just feel like he would not be able to ever, ever, ever, ever get through that get over it. And do you like that feeling? Yeah, I love it. I love it. I want to feel wanted so badly that like no one else, you know, that no one else can have me.

I love it. It's so weird. Like I love when he like gets jealous or gets a little, it's like, it's sexity me. I'm like, oh, you love me that much. Like, okay, cool. I'm down with it. You know, it's fun. I used to get mad when guys wouldn't get jealous. I'm like, I could be like doing the lap dance on this guy's lap and you don't even care. And they're like, no. You're like, it's fine. Who? Who did you do this? that way. You gave a lap? All the time. No, I used to get mad that Ollie wouldn't get jealous. He just like didn't land on him. I mean, it's cool to not get jealous. Like, it's cool, but it makes you, it makes me, but he would get mad if I would connect with people. Interesting. You know,

that's the whole other thing. I was more apt to be in the corner connecting than I was. Right. Exactly. That's the whole thing too. It's like huge difference, open relationships between mindless sex, whatever, and like a deep emotional connection with somebody. You know what I mean? Like I would almost, actually this is a question. What would you prefer your partner having sex with somebody? Meaningless. It could be a few times meaningless.

Literally the most meaningless sex that he could have had of just like wanting to have sex in that moment. Physical, solely physical. No one that he knew before, whatever. No sex versus no sex but like deep emotional connection. Meaningless sex, 1,000% without a doubt. Really? See, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Like, no physical connection is so much worse. No physical. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. No, because... I'm telling you emotional connection because you have feelings. That hurts and like...

As long as you don't touch them. That is like deeper though. Touching, who cares? It's just physical. You're never going to see the person again, but like they fuck them? No. Who cares? I don't know if it's a pride thing for me, but like I just can't

it over that. I'm like, uh-uh. It's physical for you then. But I don't know. You'd rather him have an emotional connection. If the option was he will never touch this person and he's going to have a deep emotional connection. But like he's falling in love with this person. Well, here's the thing is this is one thing I did learn about Jeff when we were at our school together. All these women thought they had a special connection with him, right? Literally. They'd be like, oh, I have this special connection. And then one day I was standing outside and Jeff was talking to this man. And I was, and I was talking to this man. I saw the way he was talking to him and I was like, oh, I get it now. He makes people feel special because he listens to them and because he genuinely cares. And so he has all these like special

connections where people are like, Jeff sees me. I have this special connection. And I realized he was allowed to have that. And that was okay. It took nothing from me. That's different, though, connection. This emotional connection is literally having feelings for another person. Like, They're going to think about them when they're falling asleep at night. I'm sorry. Rob, what do you? I'm on your side. You are?

Thank you. You would rather Natalie have sex with another man than have feelings. Meaningless sex. Who cares? Well, because do you know why I'm a little with Olivia? If my partner said to me completely honestly, hey, I did not as much as kiss this person. We have not as much as done one thing that you would be. you know, mad at me for. Nothing that I'm guilty of, nothing that I'm shameful for. But I

have feelings for this person and I feel a connection to this person and blah, blah, blah, blah, and told me everything, the truth honestly. And we had a true, like, real discussion. And he was completely brutally honest. And I felt secure that he was never going to fucking touch this person. I would be more okay with it, like with the honesty. But what if he told them they, that he loved them? Like, they were in love. And he was like, I love you. Well, then that would be the end of the relationship. Yeah. You know, like that wouldn't be a...

Well, but that's emotional connection. Like, you can feel like you're... You fall in love with someone. Depends how much you trust your partner to not act on those. To not act on it. But I also think, like, one of my girlfriends that I was working with, she told me that her now husband, that they're so happy, you know, have kids, like are on top of the moon.

Everything worked out. Like, a year after they got married was working on set and made it really deep, like, loving, true, deep soul connection with... one of the girls he was working with. But instead of fucking her or acting on it in any sort of way, he went immediately to his wife and told her point blank, I don't know, I just feel this connection. I don't know what to do about it.

It's there. It's real. This is what we've said to each other about it. This is what has gone on, but I have not touched her. I want to think. And she told me that she was like, it deeply hurt. Yeah. But the fact that he was honest made it okay.

And she was like, and I let him play it out. Because I knew that he was my person. we just got married, we're like that we're each other's people, and that he was honest enough with me to tell me about it. She was like, I knew that he wasn't going to go sleep with her. She'd on me do anything. So he didn't. She let him. Yeah, she let him. And she was like, six months later, he was like, yeah, it was a fleeting. Right. It was a fleeting thing. And it was done. I was going to say, I think that especially as artists and actors and musicians, like the intimacy that people work with each other, don't you feel like that's bound to happen? You're going to have a

Of course. Well, you're like 16 hours a day. Like if you're working on something like that and you're around the person, you know, and you're doing intimate scenes and you get to know them on like all these levels. Of course there's going to be attraction and connections. And it weather. Yeah, it totally depends if you act on them or not. And I agree with that. And I do agree with like the honesty and like coming to the partner and being completely open and having that open dialogue and communication, you know. But I just, I do think like emotional connections and feelings like that are more hurtful than second. that doesn't, like there's no feelings attached to physical sex. But here's where I argue is that at least in my relationship. And sex with condoms don't count. So like if they use a condo. But in my relationship, he knows what it means to me. Right. You know, so if he were to cross that line, that would be like bananas.

Me too. I think it depends on how you're connecting to that person, too. If it's the same way that you're filling up Jeff's cup, if he's doing that with another woman. Right. That's different than him connecting with something. someone in a different way. I agree. I also think it's like there is a difference of such a deep connection if the partner's falling in love. Like that would be, I would go, okay, then we're not meant to be together. You're meant to like go on be with this person or be whatever you're

supposed to be. But if it's like a connection that's like, hey, and it was just pure honesty, I just think honesty is the only thing that really matters to me because I feel like going and sleeping with someone, even if you're told immediately about it afterwards, it's not honesty because you're still doing it. Like honest would be like, you gave me a call and you're like, hey, I'm fucking drunk and I want to sleep with this person so I'm going to sleep with this person. And that call would break my heart but I would never be able to say he wasn't honest with me.

You know what I mean? And I think with connection, like if there was a way of like if you felt a connection and you wanted to tell me about it, like I would happily hear you and listen to you and talk to you. And if you felt that connection was at all greater or competing with our connection, then we shouldn't be in a relationship.

But at least to be honest, to be able to have an open conversation and feel like, oh, I can still trust this. person because he's telling me that the one thing that he's probably terrified to tell me, you know, is more important to me. Because I just know that it's like if my boyfriend was belligerent drunk and had sex with somebody that he didn't know her name, didn't even remember what she looked like, I'd be gone. I'd be gone in an instant. I'd say no more. I've built this like, just level of respect for myself now that I'm like, I know exactly what I want, what I deserve,

what I need. There's no chances for me when it comes to like a brewery. brutal, brutal disrespect. Like, I'd have no chances. I'd give no second chances. I would give a second chance if I never said, I do not like this. I do not stand for this. If you want to be with me and you want all of me, you have to do X, Y, and Z. And if I didn't say that, if I didn't set what I wanted in stone and I didn't say exactly

what I needed, what I expected, what I deserved. Right. It would make sense to be like, okay, you didn't know that. Now you do. I'm going to give you a second chance. But because I have so intensely and intensely, been like, uh-uh. Like, if you want me, all of me, the best of me, you cannot cheat.

You cannot play with cheating. You cannot see another single fucking girl. Like, you've got to be fucking honest with me. No hiding shit. Like, we are open and honest and real. If that was betrayed now, knowing everything that he knows, knowing what I need, what I deserve, what I want, uh-uh. Done.

I just want to be clear and specify between the difference between like the no feeling physicality and then the emotional connection. I'm thinking all of this is done, unbeknownst to the partner, right? So it's not like coming forth, coming forward with. I have this connection, blah, blah, just like the two things on their own, that's where my very strong. Well, I would prefer neither. If we're going to choose. If we have to choose, I choose neither. But what you're saying is the difference between agreements and expectations. And I think that that's a really important thing in relationships is you can think that you have this great understanding, but without boundaries and actual agreements, your partner

might not know. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So I have an agreement with my husband not to do that. It's not an expectation. It's not an expectation. And I mean, I think that that's how relationships work is with honesty and communication.

And to be like, okay, this is what I need and want. If you are down with that, can ride with it and can give me that, we're fucking great. Let's go and let's roll. But if you can't, then you can't. And we're done. And we can't do it. And it's fine. But it's like, I just think if you set what you need in stone and you have that conversation

early on, you don't let yourself get lost in the whole. But what if he did? But what if he, but, you know. So we know a couple that like, you know, married, whatever and agreed that one of them could go sleep around. One of them. Yeah. The husband?

No. No. No. And wow. Yeah. And it felt very evolved and like, I mean, I never really could grasp it. You know what I mean? But it was like a decision that they both made and were okay with. But now they're no longer together. Now they're no longer together. Well, I feel like with open relationships, again, I can't really speak on it because I'm not a person to do that. Yeah. I believe that with open relationships, it has to be, it has to be even. Like you can't, it can't just be one side. You got to, it's either a mutual thing or it's like, oh, you just want to go fuck other people. Right. And you don't want me to like, no. Like, yeah, not going to happen.

An interesting point to that. I feel like if it was me and the husband let me do that. And I think that the wife in the situation did feel this way. It was like, wait, but you don't care if I do this? Like you're not jealous or no? Like that brings that up. You're like, wait a minute. There are some people that I know genuinely that are in open relationships that the husband or the wife or both of them mutually are like,

turned on by them hooking up with someone else. And even like they do something that like the husband like wants to watch the wife like seek with someone else and isn't involved, doesn't even touch like, but it's like their biggest turn on. Yeah. And I do feel again with the respect that it's like if you can get to that place of fulfilling your partner's fantasies, even if it means involving other people that you're not like whatever world that is that like can spark those negative emotions. Like you have fucking unlocked the key. Like you guys and if it worked, and it works well and you're happy. Like, you've fucking unlocked it.

Like, you're so in love and so trusting of each other that you can watch the other, have sex with someone else, give themselves to someone else, and feel excited about it and not jealous about it. Like, I could never do that. And how nice would it be, though, to love and trust someone so deeply and know all about them and everything

and, like, what they feel and have full faith in them? Could you do it for them? Like, if it was your dude's fantasy, like, oh, I've always wanted to see my girl with another guy. would you be like, okay? I would. Do you know, I mean I would, but like. Rachel's like Tuesday.

I mean, I only wouldn't in the sense of, I don't think I'd want to. Like when I'm with Andrew, my guy, being with him now, there hasn't been like one dude that I've been like interested in hooking up with, you know, I only want him. Like, I don't want anybody else inside of me. I also feel like being a girl in sex is so much more intimate and like raw and vulnerable. than being a guy because like with dudes like you're just fucking it's like he's sticking his fucking fist in you like it doesn't matter like you can just put it in any hole in the wall but with a girl like you're having somebody like inside of your body like that's so weird like you're and you're like it's just like I just I don't know I don't think I'd be able to but but Rachel can you can't

but I don't know I just say that like you know it obviously depends on the relationship I don't think I could in the sense of I feel like if my dude asked that of me that it would later be expected that I would do the same thing and I would not be able to do it back in the way. You know what I mean? I would only be able to do it if it was like this is a one-off, your fantasy, you don't get to fuck any girls. But this is all that it is. This is for you. It's for you and that's it.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. But I also don't think he'd ever want it. But what Andrew and I have, which is very, I think our mature, like, evolved, whatever type of thing is I'm bisexual. And I have always known it about myself that I liked girls, but I never really, like, explored it on my own, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like I was just, maybe just Los Angeles or who I was around or what I was doing. It was kind of like, it just wasn't really a thing. Like, I just didn't know men.

And also going to, like, an all-girls Christian school, you'd think that there'd be a lot of lesbians or something. But, like, everybody I knew was straight growing up. Interesting. Like, I was friends with, like, gay boys and, like, gay kids and, like, had my gay best. friends and stuff, but I knew no girls that liked girls. Like, it just wasn't really a thing. So I would like make out with girls at parties or like have a three way with a guy and a girl and like, you know what I mean? And like just kind of only be with women when it was either to, you know, in front of guys or to impress guys or with guys. And like all my other friends, like wanted to make

out with their girls to impress the boyfriends that they were with. But I wanted to make out with the girls because I like like to make out with the girls. And it took me until I was like, probably 19 or 20 to realize like, oh, wait, no, no, no. Like, it's not just for fun. Like, I genuinely really, like, it's a big part of me. It's who I am. It's what I like. And when Andrew and I broke up for a second, in, like, two years ago, we broke up for, like,

two months, maybe, two and a half months. The day that we broke up started, like, seeing a girl and, like, kind of dating a girl for a few months. And she lived in my house for, like, a month and a half. And I had feelings for her. I still, she had a husband. holds the biggest, most special, you know, thing in my heart. And I, I love her in my own way and we'll always have this connection. But like, it was the first ever girl that I was like with

sober. And it was like, we're together, we're alone, we're sober. We're doing the thing. And like, it's not for anybody else with anybody else because of anything else. And I got back together with Andrew. And because I want to be completely honest with him always, I was like, okay, I love you. You're the only dude. I fucking want. I'm not, I, even when we broke up, not one other guy. could ever catch me attention. You could have the hottest, most wanted boy in the world in my fucking phone and I wouldn't look twice. Like you're the only boy I want. But the only single, only thing you can't give me. Only thing is vagina. It's like it's the only thing that you physically can't give me. And it's such a big part of me that I just am realizing now I've never,

I've never had a girlfriend. I've only ever been with one girl on a serious level. And he said to me, He was like, it doesn't bother me. He was like, if you're honest with me and tell me what you're doing and I know who you're with, what you're doing, and there's not a fucking dick in sight, you can do what you want to do. And I was like, really. And he was like, yeah, it's hot. Like, it's hot for him. Sure.

It's almost like that one time that the sexist mindset, like kind of, you know. Works. Works for me. I'm like, you can keep it. But I feel like he's just not threatened by women in that way that he's like, oh, yeah, you can like be with a woman in a mindless type of way. And it's not a threat. to our emotional connection because it's so different and out there. But like, we do have a sort of

agreement that if I want to hook up with a girl, I can do it. I just like, we'll have to be honest with him about it. And he thinks it's so, like, he thinks it's hot, you know? Like, does he want to be a part of it? Definitely, but he doesn't get that. But can you do it mindlessly with women? It's so weird because it's never mindless. I couldn't just, like, hook up with a random girl. but I think that it's like on a sexual level on like a what I want and feel fulfilled by and I have to have a connection with the person no matter what it's like it I have to have a connection I don't need to be in love but like I have to feel like we have something we're friends we're connected we have some I don't know it can't be mindless for me but it's not but it's not like

I don't it's very hard to describe I can be with a girl and be like okay like we just got so much closer we'll be in each other's lives forever and We have a close, deep relationship that is completely different from all of our other friends, you know? Because all the girls that I've hooked up with have been my close friends for years before we ever did anything. And we're still close friends. But it's like as much as you look at a group of 10 of us and we're all close friends, you and I are the closest. And we have this close little fun, you know? But it doesn't mean that we're in love.

It just means that we have this amazing, you know, connection. But I also think it's so different with women that it's like you can make deep, deep connections with women as you do with your girlfriends, as you guys have, as you have with Leah. as you have with many other people. But when you add, like, that aspect of, like, being intimate with each other and being, like, completely raw and vulnerable if both sides want it or into it, like, it just, like, adds such a deeper level. Like, with the girl I was with when Andrew and I broke up, like, I saw her, we were spent Fourth of July together.

We've spent many nights together since. And, like, no matter what, I believe, till we fucking die, if she gets married, I get married, do a whole thing. We'll always share this little special, like, deep connection. And I always feel like when we're together, it's like we have like almost the secret that we hold. And it's not like it's a secret. Like I'm talking about it now. Yeah.

Our friends know about it. But we have this like intimacy and it's love. But it doesn't compete with my relationship with Andrew because I view women and men so differently that it's like, no, I feel like I can be with one man and have this be my human being and my person. And like, maybe I'll marry him. Maybe I'll have kids. Maybe we won't. Like we said earlier, whatever it is. But I can have this other connection with this person and still have feelings for this person and have it not make the feelings for Andrew any less.

are any less powerful, you know? It's just like, also. It's just like, okay, I also have this connection, this beautiful connection. But I'm also not like fucking a million girls. Like it's like, you know what I mean? It's like a one thing and like I'll be honest with him completely. Yeah. You know, but I want to know like just sexually, physically, you know, being with a woman first being with a man. Is there a difference? Like, oh my other, there's such a difference. Yeah, like a preference. Well, women know women. Right. You know. Yeah. And I was blessed with my boyfriend. He always says, He's like, us Jewish guys, like, we love our mama. We're good with money and we're great at eating pussy.

And I'm like, I got to give it to you, you fucking are. So I was blessed with my partner is fantastic in bed and knows my body so well that it's like, at this point, we're just, we're so connected and in tune. But no matter what, it's like with a woman, like, you know, think about with yourself. Like, you know your own body, more than, better than anybody else knows your own body. And imagine being with somebody who also knows their own body. exact same way, therefore knowing the intricates of your body. As much as you have a different body, it's like the same functions, you know? And I also think with women, it's like, it's much more like gentle and slow in the sense of like you take your time, you do this, you do that. You can,

you know, it's just kind of comfortable. With men, it's like you feel, you know, there's always a role in one way or the other of like whether you're being dominated or dominating or like, you're on top, you're this, you're getting fucked or you're fucking, whatever it is. There's like, there's a level of like, you got to play a role in a sense of like, how do we want to be today? Like, am I going to be this? Am I going to be that? Oh, do my boobs look good?

Just my stomach rolls on top when I'm this. Like, am I, is it making him feel good? Like, does this feel nice for him? Like, what am I doing? And with a woman, I just feel like there's a level of like, okay, like, we both have very similar insecurities as everyone does. Like, we both feel this type of way or about our bodies or know this about our bodies. And like, there's just like a level of like understanding.

of comfortability that's like you can say whatever, do whatever, look however, and like there's no fucking judgment. But I also think that's specifically to the girl that I was with when Andrew and I broke up was like she was so warm and loving and open and honest. I feel like where the betterness comes in is like when you're not thinking about how you look or how you're acting or how you're doing, like when you just have that confidence of like, oh, I know what I'm doing. And I know like that we have this like bond and love and like you're going to tell me what you want. I'm going to tell you what I want, we're going to be totally communicative and honest with each other, that the end result is always more powerful because you don't have anything else in your brain. Like, all you're thinking

about is like, how do I make this person feel the best and happiest that they can feel? And they're thinking the same, you know, versus like, how did my boobs look? And like, I don't want to be weird or like say something wrong or whatever, you know. But again, it's like, it's different individually. If you look at my track record with boys even, like, I've never gone for looks ever in my life. Like, I mean, I've dated very handsome people. I think my boyfriend now is the most handsome. person I've ever met my life. But like I've always gone for what's on the inside. Always, always, always. I'm a people's person point blank. So I feel like that's why I'm like can be with women like and like totally comfortable, equally comfortable with men because it's like I don't care

what you look like. I only care about what's on the inside. And like if we have that connection, like we have a connection. Yeah. And we're going to ride with it. Well, I have to ask you because, you know, your generation, it seems like it's way more, you know, people exploring more sexually and everything like that. Like, do you feel like a lot of your friends are kind of the same? Like, people are people and exploring and everything. I think so.

I think that the spectrum is a big one. And I think everyone is on it. And I think that many fucking people, you know, are point straight and are very, like, like what they like. And I have no interest in being with the same sex whatsoever. And it's just who they are and what they're born with. Right. But, like, even you guys, for example,

as much as you probably don't want to, I mean, I don't want to answer for you. want you to answer as much as you probably don't want to lick a vagina and be in front of a vagina. You've probably seen a woman and been like that girl is like fucking gorgeous. She is so hot. Like that is a beautiful, gorgeous hot woman. But you might not want to like, you know, have sex with her, but you might still feel those like little inklings. And I think that the spectrum's a wide one. And what's so great about this generation, again, with many things I could say negatively, something that's very beautiful is that people feel more comfortable and more accepting

to be able to explore that even on short form. Because I do feel like that there's probably, not probably, definitely, millions and millions and millions of people who grew up so differently in such a different vein with no sort of social media or anybody being like, it's okay to be who you are that are going to stay their whole lives in the fucking closet, even if it's like, okay, like, yeah, I'm happy with a boy. I'm happy to get married to a boy. Like, I feel like I've been really attracted to girls forever.

But no, I'm going to shy away from that because no one else does it and I shouldn't do that. So I'm just going to be with the boy. Like some people probably are very happy with their lives, still being in the closet in one way or the other and feel fulfilled in one way or the other. But I just think like with the generation of nothing is private anymore, everything is on social media. Anything in the universe can be looked up and read at. Any fantasy in the universe can be watched and seen. It creates a world in which you can be whatever you want to be, even if you're in a state that's more so anti-gay, anti-freedom. freedom. It's like you can look on your phone and see the millions of other kids that are able to live

their truth and go, oh, I can do this too. Right. So I just think it's like with the fluidity, it's always been there. I just think it's like nowadays people are more, you know, inept to exploring. Because I know some men too that are like, years ago told me that they were bisexual. And then now we're like, no, I'm straight. But like I went through a phase. Or like I tried it and I realized what I liked. And like that they don't get that label on them. Oh, you're a gay. because you've been with a guy or you're like, you know, X'd out, whatever. Like, I feel like there used to be such a big stigma around, like, men that were bisexual or men that wanted to explore. Because it's, like, immediately shunned just sidely that you're like, oh, no, you're gay.

Like, you can't be by. You can't like both. Like, you're whatever. Right. And I just think it's like people are people and people can do what they want and people feel less judgment because there's so many different types of sexuality and all this stuff. I don't know. It's always been like this. I just think it's like you're seeing so much more of it now and you're able to like.

People feel more, yeah, like it's a safer space too. But like imagine like 20 years ago being in a fucking Florida and waking up and having both your parents, you know, that you only ever knew straight and learned straight, saw straight. It was just like what was set out for you. And you don't see any other example of the other side. Like you're more likely than not going to explore that until you go, oh shit, this exists. Right. This is a thing. And I just think it's like it's such a.

No matter where you are. the world. You can see a million people that are like you. I grew up in a very like open sexually household with my mother. She'll be like the clitoris can either form into a clitoris or it'll become a penis. Like everyone starts with the same thing. That's her whole thing. You know, and like my whole life is she's like, no, of course. Everyone's bisexual. It's like, that's her take on it, you know? And I'm like, okay, mom, but of course you can be attracted or like just sexually. Maybe it's not feelings or whatever it is. And I think that that is normal for people. Especially, you know, if they're feeling anything just to feel like you can feel that way.

And like it's totally just a natural human thing because people are just people. People are people. But don't you feel like, for example, your connection with each other, the love you have for each other, is not equal or more so than you would have with a husband or a partner? Right. It's like, women can I feel like make these deep, solid connections that it's like if you two perhaps were born with a little more like, love and a girl, you know, inclination. You guys would be the dream couple and would get married and a baby. Be so cute. But it's like, I think that it's just that fine line between whether

the connection you make with somebody, the true love if you also can go the extra route and like be intimate with them on a sexual level versus just be friends. Because like I have so many friends soulmates that I'm like, well, sex in the city. They're like, no, your friends are your soulmates. Your friends are your soulmates. Yeah. Exactly. And it's just like that line, that little tiny line to be crossed of like even just like one of my best friends in the world that is my genuine soulmate that I love more than anything like we made out one time and it was so special and like magical butterflies flying and we had it. We had that moment and we never did it again but we will always will talk about it if we're drunk, well this or that like we have that little thing that I'm

like if we wanted to like we could literally be a power couple. We could take over the world. We could take over to the fucking world. Like we have so much love for each other. We'd never see anybody else again. But it's like, I don't know, I just think it's a one huge fucking spectrum. It's also, it's like, you don't know what you like until you try it, you know, and I feel like some people, me included, what if I just wanted to make out with girls and what if I just wanted to have three ways or this or that or like explored in one way or the other? I would have never known that I was truly into women as equally as I am into men until I genuinely did it, sober on my own without anybody else, you know? And then I realized. But it's like, I don't know.

I just think it's, I think it's beautiful that kids are able to be what they want to be. But I also think that there is an aspect that it's like, is everything too public now? Like, there's no privacy anymore. Like, I almost felt, you know, because I have two little brothers that are 19 and 16. And the 16 year old, it's like, a kid will come to school one day and be like, I'm a boy. And then the next day you'd be like, I'm a girl. And the next day, be like, I'm X or I'm this pronoun and I'm gay and I'm this and I'm that. And I feel like that there is a world in which it's so.

influx of like so many sexualities and genders and different ways of expressing yourself that as a kid, if I were a kid, I was such a fucking tomboy, I played basketball and volleyball I were, I never brushed my hair, I had a rat, sness my hair. Leah literally, so Leah started as my mom's assistant. That's how Leah

and I became like deeply, deeply close. One of her like weekly things that she'd have to sit down with me for like three hours and brushed through my fucking hair. I'd refuse to do it. But I feel like if I was around the social media that is around now of like you can be anything and everything, I would be like, I'm a boy. I would be like, no, I'm a boy. I want to transition. I want to do this. That's who I am. I don't know. I just think that there's like there is a world in which there's

so much like in your face. It's almost like it's so cool to be. Yeah. It's so cool to be different. That it's like I do feel like there is an aspect of like I don't know what I am. I don't know what I'm supposed to be. Maybe that's the beauty of it though. Is it like you can be whatever you want to fucking be and it doesn't matter. But I just like there's pressure though because I was talking to someone recently about they were getting messages from TikTok and basically everything and everyone they follow is bisexual and they were starting to feel if they were straight that they were being outcast or that there was something wrong with them and there was this pressure to be bisexual and it's like you can also be who you are if that's straight you're that's the whole point of it is

it's only you're supposed to be who you are but I do think that especially with young kids I mean Fuck, the kids I went to school with an elementary school were fucking so much meaner than the kids I went to high school with. Like, I feel like young kids are 10 million times meaner than like high school because I feel like you have no filter. Like when you're like you're the mid children like in middle school like 12 to like or like 10 to like 14 15 like that's when you're like mean. Yeah. And I definitely see just like looking at my little brother's, you know, school and around that it's like it's so cool. to be gay and to be different, that you're almost bullied if you're straight. That's what I've seen recently.

And I just think it's like that's not, the goal is that it's like, no, anybody can be exactly who they are and like to be accepted by that. But yeah, I do feel like there is a little aspect of like if you're not different, you're not cool. And I just, I don't know. I just think everybody's fucking cool in their own way and they should be who they are and not fake it and all. And I think that this new age of, you know, you don't have to be a gender, you don't have

to be a sexuality if you don't want to be. is amazing and beautiful, but it is definitely. It's hard to, it's hard to grasp. We could talk about it for hours. It's very crazy. It's confusing. It's confusing. It is. It's hard. Because like even as you're talking, I'm sitting there like checking in with myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's a spectrum and everyone's, you know, on there somewhere. And internally, my feeling that comes up is it feels like I'm 100% full clarity straight. You are like the straightest of all of our. friends. You are.

Like I'm trying to find it. Yeah. It's what you like. It's who you are. One of the most by like you're out of this world, stunningly gorgeous, sickening, disgusting, make me want to vomit. This is true. But I don't want to fuck you.

Yeah. You know. Because it's not in you. It's not what you want. Right. And I'm like literally checking in being like, is it? Like, could I date Rachel? It's just who you are.

Yeah. you're born. And there's not one thing that's better than the next. That's like the whole thing. I think of it in terms of like when I have a child. Yeah. I bet it's so fucking confusing for that child to be a million different versions of what they could be and are supposed to be and who they are. And you can be what you are born with or you can be what you're not born with or you could be something entirely different or nothing at all. There's so many options that I feel like with a young mind, a young person with a young mind that's learning the world and being formed. you know, very quickly just by their surroundings and nature, nurture, whatever, the whole thing, it's very easy to, like, get lost in it and not know. And I think that, again, the world in which

you can be whatever you want is so beautiful and incredible. But I just notice in these young kids' life that it's like, it's very confusing of not knowing who you are and seeing that you can be so many options that it's almost like what, then who am I? And if I'm straight and cisgendered, like I am who I was born as and I'm straight. I like who I like, like, does that make me boring? Like, do I suck? Like, am I fine? Like, I don't know.

But I also think that everything before it calms down and evens out and becomes like a very steady, non-controversial, easy thing. It has to go to the extremes, you know? It's everything in the history of history is you start with an extreme and it eventually evens out to like a mellow playing field. And I feel like we're with social media, with TikTok, with, you know, fucking 10-year-olds having cell phones, we're at an extreme of judging people for being straight almost. You know what I mean? At the extreme of like, you have to be different or you're not accepted.

And I feel like it'll level out to be like, no, dude, do whatever the fuck you want to do. Like, we don't care. Do whatever you are. Be who you are. Like, love who you want to judgment from any, from any corner. But yeah. Also, it's such a weird thing to talk about because it's like, I want to say a million things, but you got to watch yourself because I don't want to fucking offend anyone. And I'm not here to offend anyone. I genuinely believe, like, if you truly know that you are born as something that you're not and that's not what you feel like, then that's not what you feel like. That's not who you are. You are who you are. And like, I support you unconditionally. I'm just saying it's like, it must be difficult for the kids that

don't know who they are and what they want and to feel like there's so many options that it's almost like, what do you do? Did your parents talk to you about that growing up? Were they like, hey, just so you know it's okay to be who you are? Never. No. We never had a, no. I never even like came out to them or whatever. It's like laugh. like to say that word. Like we never, never had that. It was also like growing up in LA, like my dad's business partner is like very, very, very gay and very just the loveliest. Like I love him to death, Randall.

He's my everything. He's like my uncle. I'd call him Uncle Randall. But I grew up around him all the time. And like we went to their wedding and like they wrote in on a unicorn for their wedding. It was like a very like flamboyant like a beautiful, incredible celebration of love and pride type of wedding. And so like I just grew up around that it was like we're friends with everyone. No one is different.

Just I mean everyone is different. But like different isn't wrong. You know what I mean? I feel like we never really had to have that conversation just because like I was around all walks of life. But again, my parents are like straight as a fucking, you know, edge too. So I just think it's like I grew up knowing that it was okay to do whatever I wanted. I just never thought that I was genuinely by. sexual because I never, it was just wasn't a thing. It was like if, I don't know, it was like,

it was almost that fear too of like, what if I told my girlfriends I liked girls and like they never wanted to have sleepovers anymore. And like, but just because I like girls doesn't mean I want to fuck all my girlfriends. Right. My girlfriends are my girlfriends. You know what I mean? And like, we can change. And I can change in front of all my girlfriends and like not, there's nothing weird about it or nothing like sexual about it. You know what I mean? But there is that fear in like when you're a young kid to be like, oh, am I going to lose all my friends? friends. Like, is this real? Like, what is it going on? But I don't know. I just never, yeah, I just never connected the dots because I was just like, no, I just, I just kiss all my friends.

Like, everybody. I think, yeah, the only time I ever kissed, like, a friend in high school, because, like, that's what you did. And like, you know, and all the boys like it. You know. No, and you know, like, it was, you know. You never wanted to. But I remember. But it's who you are and it's fine. And it's good. Yeah. I don't, I mean, there's nothing about it that like grosses me out or anything like that. It's just I've never been have you ever watched porn like girl on girl. I don't watch porn. Really? You've never watched porn? Like with a partner even or anything? No. No way. I've told you this because if you've definitely watched porn. Oh yeah. I've watched porn. But when she was five years old. Yeah. There's like

that's right. It's triggering for her because she was subjected to it. I don't. I was. I was subjected to porn at a very young age and it wasn't chill, but... I get it. We'll have to tell that story at some point. At some point. I know. I want to hear that story. But I, so it has a bad stain on you just now.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. Like, I don't care... Do you care of Jeff watches it? Not at all. Right. Not even a little bit. It doesn't bother me at it. Yeah.

It doesn't bother me at all. It just, I'm not into watching it myself. Right. I get it. I also think when something has a bad history with you, whatever it may be. It's triggering. It's triggering and it's something that you want to avoid for your life.

And that makes total sense. But also, do you know what? So many fucking girls I know, straight girls, almost objectively only watch girl on girl porn. And I was so interested in that because I'm like, and they're straight and they're totally straight and have no interest in being with a woman ever. But like only watch lesbian porn. And I explored that a little bit. and like read about it and tried to like find out why that was. And the first thing I saw is that everybody wants what they can't have.

And it's like the one thing that they're not going to do, their fantasies, they like, you know, want to see that. But also it's that a woman wants to see what it would look like for them to get pleasureed in the best way. And a lot of times a woman can pleasure a woman in the best way. And so you're watching a woman get pleasured envisioning that it's you. You know what I mean? like seeing it kind of more, I don't know, but I think it was also just like girls like to watch girl on girl because it's like safe and comfortable versus like, you know, not a lot of girls are turned on by like the whole aspect of like heterosexual porn. It's like very aggressive.

Yeah. Man, it's like for men, you know, like a girl and a guy porn is like is made for men mostly. I've not, I've not really seen one that felt like it was completely catered to women. That's interesting perspective. Girl-on-Girl is more catered to women in the sense of like, you know, this is what women want. And the thought of girl-on-girl is, to me, I like the idea of it, but not for myself, but for what it would do to a man. Oh. See?

Do you think maybe you kind of see things more from like a male perspective? I mean, like, the thought of it being a turn-on isn't because it would turn me on per se. But turn Jeff on. But it would turn me on. to turn the man on. Yeah. Right. Like I would be the one that would do it more for a guy.

Yeah. Like you'd get out with your girlfriend in front of your dude. Exactly. And then look at him and like. Yeah. When the guy turned on turns you on. Would you ever have a three-way? Yeah.

Would you? With Jeff? No. No. With other people? Yeah. But like you can't. No.

You couldn't share. No. Not with him. I think I could have with other people. Yeah. You know, but there's something that is just so deeply intimate about our relationship. You don't want to share.

No. I don't want to share him. Because like, could you? So this is, I've had a three-way with my boyfriend before. Okay. But before we were seriously dating. Got it.

Like we, like, we had so much fun together before we were like truly in love serious dating. And then when that happened, we were like, okay, no more of that. But I think I could. Was it another girl or another guy? Yeah, another girl. He could never do another guy. Yeah. He just couldn't.

I mean, it'd be so fun. Yeah. I'm like, give me all the attention. But actually, I don't know if I'd want, but I feel like that'd be very scary. I don't need two dicks me. It's too much. I prefer it.

You prefer it. Olivia's like, give me five. But I think with him, I would 100% do it with rules on my own ground. Now, like, in the past, again, it was like with one of my girlfriends. Like, I just didn't care. I was like, yeah, fun. Who cares? Like, let's do it.

But now with like deep, true love, it would have to be, one, a random girl, preferably in a random city. that we would literally never see again, never even see her Instagram. We wouldn't know her last name. Like, my biggest priority would be that there would be no chance in hell of them to ever connecting or messaging or ever seeing each other again. And I would want it to be so that it's like, even if he wanted to on a random night, that he couldn't fucking look her up. Like, I would want it to be like the most random of all random type girls.

Yeah. And I would make a rule of like, I can do whatever I want to the girl and you can do whatever you want to me. but you're not allowed to fuck the girl. And I could make it of like you can touch the girl, you can do this, you can, we can all play around. We can both. No insertion is what you're saying. Yeah.

Only allowed to do me. Because then I feel like it'd be more fine. Like in my control with my rules, random girl, you know. Would he go for that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What about you?

I don't know. It depends on like the guy in the situation. I don't know. I'd have, you come back to me when I'm, you know. With options? Come back to with options I'll talk about it Because I literally though

But thinking of like If there was even one second That I was like watching my dude With another girl Yeah There'd be two fists being There'd be two faces being Farnished by my fist

Like it would be like It'd be an immediate like Okay you're out get out Yeah You know what I mean Like you would have to be I'd have to like For in five hours before

Like actually Fuck another girl Like it's just like The whole like actual It's so much Penetration You're like You're just like, no.

No, that's mine. Exactly. But I could 100% do it of like with my rules, with my ground rules. Sure. He 100% knows, okay, he's not. He is no involved. It's like, I'm hooking up with a girl and he gets like the fun of it and gets to watch and join in and like be a fun part. But like, you know.

And also the moment it's done, she's out and we're never talking about. It's done. Right. But I don't know. I would do that as like a present to him because I feel like it's like every guy, no matter what they say. Like it's every guy's dream. Fantasy. Like, yeah.

It's such a basic thing. For sure. And it's something that I'm into. And he so graciously allows me to be with girls and partake. Yeah. He should be allowed to be invited. I think you got a gift in that. I got a gift of that.

Yeah. My penance. But I said to him to our generosity. I was like, babe, like if you want to hook up with guys, like feel free. Just no vagina. I'm like, go hook up with as many dudes as you want. And he's like, it's like you. Olivia's so straight.

He's just like, he can kiss. his guy friends and like he's very in touch with his feminine side and like very very secure in who he is but he just he's not interested not interested whatsoever not turned on by it never could like just not no interest but would you care no would you be open to it I'd be so open to that just no girls for him I wouldn't I wouldn't be threatened by it I'd be like him and it's sexist again it's just it wouldn't it wouldn't it wouldn't I wouldn't be threatened by it because I'd be like okay if you were into men if you want to talk up with men that's the one single thing that I cannot give you physically, that I can't, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't give you

what a man could give you. And I wouldn't be threatened by that at all because I'm like, I know that you would only be getting what you would not be able to get from me and you wouldn't be trying to get anything else. Like I look at how I was, I look with girls of like, I make my own connections. I have my own love. I have my own moments. But I'm at the core, you know, getting what I can't get from my relationship and building like more friendship deep connections than I am like, you know, wanting to date the person. I know what I mean. Yeah.

So it's like I wouldn't be there. Well, I feel like we could just go on for hours and hours and like I don't want to like get like you just want you with us all the time. So the end of our podcast, we do fuck Mary Kill or Mary Barry One Night Stand depending on how you feel about it. FMK is like the OG. FMK is the OG. But we're not actually killing anybody. just like guys. It's just like, you know. If we had to. Lightly swing. Lightly swing. I know. Anyway. So we do it and we have three for you. Okay. Go ahead, Lou. Harry Stiles. Sean Mendez. Willow Smith. Okay. Fuck. Okay. So I could answer this objectively, like looks wise. I could answer this.

personally, like connection and as to why I can't do certain things. And I can answer this, hmm, safe. So I might go with the safe route. Okay. Go ahead. And say, or maybe the personal route. Go with what I can. Right?

Yeah. We're going to kill Harry. Okay, great. We're going to fuck Sean Mendez, even though I don't want to do that. And then we're going to marry Willow Smith because she's fucking rad. Okay. Wait, do you say Will Smith or Willow? Well, Willow.

Okay. Yeah, Willow we're marrying. I was like, let me make, let me just make sure. Oh, my God. That would have been great if you were like all the way. Will Smith is number one. I have a good one. Speaking of Will Smith.

Let's do. Will Smith. Johnny Depp. Oh, let's do that. Who's the third one? Alec Baldwin. We're doing the controversies. My mouth is like on the floor.

Okay, so wait, Will Smith. Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp. Alec Baldwin. Alec Baldwin. You go. I would marry Johnny Depp. There we go.

I would, oh, I think I would fuck Will Smith. Yeah. And then I would kill Alex. We don't want to fuck Alec Baldwin. No. I feel bad. His wife certainly. I mean, they have like 10 kids.

I mean, they literally have 50 kids. Oh my gosh. I mean, that's what I would do. I mean, too, many people love to fuck him and I'm like, cheers to you. That's great. Yeah, he's probably very, I've never met him. I don't know.

Probably the best. I'd probably fucking. I mean, I'm not going to. You're like, if I had to. Yeah. I mean, if I got to, but there's an order here. What would you do? With those?

Yeah. Well, okay. Not in life. So here's, I'd probably do the same exact thing. Yeah. Because Johnny Depp was like, I was obsessed with his. Cry Baby was my favorite movie growing up. Oh, for the best.

obsessed and I saw him once in a restaurant when I was growing up. And he smiled at me. And, like, he was with, like, a very much older man that smiled at my mom. And my mom was like, oh, Johnny Depp smiled at you. Like, he gets like, it was cute. And then Will Smith, I was like, obsessed with in high school. Oh, the fresh prince was like, super fresh. No, I was like, I was like, I. Yeah. Obviously, it's controversial now with Will Smith. But yes, so fuck him, I guess. And yeah. He's also so beautiful, Will Smith. Like, he's like a beautiful man. Yeah. You know, like a man. I, I, there's something about, it's so funny because with types, it's like some men, like,

sometimes I'm into like this skinny, like kind of you look like you do heroin. I love that. Type of, you know, like skinny way. But there's is something so like manly about like a manly man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like when Carrie's like, I need like with the weight of a man on top of me.

You know? Yeah. And also feeling, I think you're little. Yeah. So you probably like this normally. but I'm so fucking tall. I was talking about this with one of my girlfriends that like very, not exclusively, but drifts towards the basketball player boyfriend and like likes to date.

Very big guys. And I always was like, why do you, like, what's your thing with basketball parents? And she was like, dude, I'm fucking 5-11. Like, I want to feel small. I want to feel like small and little, like a little girl that can be like held and swept off my feet. And she's like, any other dude that's not a basketball player is tiny, like, is my height. Because she's like, because I'm way about. above average heightways. And I was like, I totally get it. And there is something about, like,

I like, manly men. It's nice. I definitely has its perks being five, too. I'm like, any man, like, all right. Also, like to feel protected in that sense. And like, you know, Rachel likes a man that can swing an axe. I do. What was your order? For Johnny, same exact as you guys. Same exact. Alec Baldwin is dead. Dead. Yeah. Johnny Depp is being married. Yeah. And Will Smith is being fucked. So when we were trying to think of yours, we were like, well, we got a skee like younger, but I feel like we could do anyone with you and you would be like... You could do anyone.

Yeah. Because we were going to fuck with you and be like, Jason Sudak. I'm like, Zach Brath. Let's do it. Okay. Let's do it. Wait, pre-cursor. Zach Brap is like my uncle.

Yes. My dad and him did scrubs together. And I was born into scrubs. So like into the table read of scrubs. So Zach Brath like held me when I was like a newborn. But he also knows Rachel very well. Yeah. We all know Zach Braff.

Yes. He all loves that. Our connection. We're making him come on the podcast, too. He better fucking come on. Yeah, he's coming on. Okay, good. But we were going to do him.

Jason Sudecis. And, I mean, we could do Donald Faison. You guys, you're choosing. It's like two family members. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, okay, okay, okay. Wait, let's do the different third one. You do it.

Oh, I don't know. You don't know? I know Zach is like your uncle, so that's going to be creepy. But also there is a side of me that I'm like, but what if like we end up marriage? That does happen. That does happen. But we're so close. Just do Donald.

Donald. All right. Donald, Zach and Jason. So Zach is like, we're like family. But we're also was, there was a really fun shift of like maybe when I turned like 15, 16, when I started like getting cool and like having my own things to say and things to do that Zach and I became like. BFFs, you know what I mean, but still, uncle. Like, it's so fucking platonic that it's like a joke. I mean, imagine my dad.

I'm like, oh, my God. Zach finally found a girl that he's going to marry and she's amazing. And you're going to love her so much. But bad news, it's me. No, Zach is getting killed because I can't do that. I feel like I don't know Jason Sidacus well enough to judge him yet. So I'm going to say Mary Jason. So I'm going to fuck him.

You're like, no, I'm definitely going to commit to that. I'll commit to that one. But Donald, I'm going to fuck Donald. I can't. He can never hear that. I'm so sorry, Casey. I don't actually want to fuck your husband. I'm just like, if I had to, it's the only place that I can't make.

It's just fucking best. Oh, my God. Casey, we love. That's so funny. I know. See, but then it's so fun. We're like, oh, we want to do these all day. Yeah, exactly.

What else? I know. But that was good. You handled. that very well. Thank you so much. Zach. You know what? And I had a line from a movie I did with Zach I'll wear the hottest dress to your funeral. Well, he just died. So now I actually get to. But also like, Zach, my dear, if you're watching this, like, you're so handsome and so mariable. Like, anybody in the world would be lucky to marry you. He's the most like charismatic, like,

funny. Funny. He is kind. Fucking funny. Funny is. We love. We love our braff. And sweet and like honest. This is our love letter to graph. And he's not like one of those actors that's like thinks they're like, you know, He's extremely the hottest and the cool. He's like, cool. He's extremely talented. Like a genuine talent that like you don't see every day. Like truly.

It's, you know. You can do it. He can do it. And he's just like he doesn't need to be. He doesn't need to be the star. Like he's so, he can direct something or produce something or write something and be behind the scenes and doesn't need to be a star.

Which I love. Yeah. I'm like, you can do it all. Yeah. It's cool. And you don't feel the need to be like, no. Creating something. And this is why we killed him.

And this is why he's done. Yes. Well, Sharr, I love you so much. I love you so much. We had so much fun having you here and you're definitely going to come back. I would love to come back. I'll come back in any way. Anyway at all, I'll come back.

I just want to be here. If you hear like a girl's voice in the background of the next few podcasts being like, oh, but what do you think about this? And you just, you'll know with me. It's a Sharma. Yeah, we're going to send you who we're interviewing and you just send us questions. I'll send you questions. You're going to be our ghost.

We're definitely going to have to do some when we do have Zach on. Oh, I think I need to come and step by when Zach's here. We're also, you would die at Zach in my relationship. Dynamic. It's so funny because all he does is give me shit and all I do is give him shit. And we're like little kids kind of. It's really, it's funny. It's the best.

Because also, like, we both know how much we love each other. And like, you know, many a people say very nice things about Zach. Many people say very nice things to me that it's like we kind of have each other saving grace of like we can be fucking horribly mean to each other. And not be offended by it. Yeah, it's the best. It's the best. It's not anyone, you know. Right.

Exactly. Well, this has been so fun and love you. Time has flown. Yes, and we love you. You beautiful creature. And we can't wait for your new music. Thank you. I know.

We barely even talked about work. And your new show. Can you say what the show is called? Yeah, the show is called Bad Monkey. Okay. And it's going to be on Apple TV. And it's starring Vince Vaughn. And yeah.

Fuck, yes. Heck. That's very fun. You can come find me in it. It's my first up roll and I'm really excited. You're a bad monkey. You're a bad monkey. All right. We love you. I know. I'm like, when I put it down. Never. Charlotte. Yes. Was Rob still in the room when we discussed watching lesbian porn, like all that stuff?

No. No. Oh. We should talk to you about it. Do you and Natalie ever watch porn together? Nope. Okay. Well, don't know where to go with that. It's been fun, guys. Is that something you do? No.

Is that something you do? I have. For sure. With a partner? Wait, what was the question? If you watch porn together. Oh, I thought you asked, do you watch lesbian porn together? Is that what you asked?

That could be under the same umbrella, but yeah, just in general, like, watch porn together. But do you watch porn? On your own? Not really, no. He's, you know, he's interesting one. Very interesting. Does Natalie on her own? No. Have you ever asked her?

Do you know? I know if she doesn't. Yeah. We don't have time, like, I don't know when that would happen. Right. Yeah. No, I mean, that's fair. Definitely your time does change once you have children.

Yeah. Okay. Well, we've touched on Olivia and she was saying to Charlotte, but you had left. Horn's kind of triggering for Olivia. So she never really watched it because she was forced to watch it when she was five years old. We didn't even really get into that, Rachel. We didn't get into it. I'm bringing it up now.

These people who are listening were like, what? Well, I mean, it's true, but it sounds worse than it was. But my brother and his friends used to put on porn and not let my sister and I leave the room. And so... Like lock them in the room. Yeah. And I was talking to Rachel about this. recently and we both were kind of like, oh, wait a minute, is that abuse? Like, that might be a little

but it's not like, it's not like porn's triggering where I'm like, I can't be around. Like, it's not like that. It just, it doesn't intrigue me. Right. It's not like a trauma trigger. It's not like a trauma trigger where I'm like, I'm upset. I mean, I'm fine. If other people watch it, I don't care at all. You like watching people watch it? It's my favorite. As long as you can't see the screen. No, I'm not like triggered, like, trauma by porn. I just, it's not something that... Sounds like it's slightly triggering.

I wonder if it's triggering for Leah now. You know? Well, she watched all his porn. She watched all of it after she found out. Yeah, she watched it. Like, that's... Could you do that? I could never...

I couldn't even watch it. I'd probably be so, like... Because think about that. Like, in learning that and, like, I don't know. She did. She watched it. But I think that she was being a detective when she did it. She was kind of like, when was this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Oh, yeah. No, I couldn't do that. Hmm. I do feel like that generation, though, Charlotte's generation is a lot more open and just everything has kind of got less stigma around it in her age group. Do you think so?

Yeah, I would agree with that. So it's like, yeah, of course. Yeah, like, yeah. I want to try this. want to do this. Like, yeah. We also said that Olivia is like the straightest of like all our friends. What do people say now, cis? Sis. You're cis, right? Is that they did it correctly? Yeah. Yeah. What are the young folks saying? What are the young folks saying now? Do you think it's a spectrum? Like, do you feel like it's a spectrum and everyone just kind of- Sexuality? Yeah.

Sexuality. Yeah, I think I agree with that. Where do you feel you fall on this spectrum? Fairly, sis. Fairly. So what you're saying is... Have you ever watched, like, Guy on Guy Porn? Nope. No?

Have you ever been interested in exploring that? Nope. What? Have you? Guy on Guy? Have I ever, what, seen it? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you know, there's a very big spectrum when it comes to pornography. I know, but I wish everyone could see Ray. Rachel's face when we ask these questions because she gives this face like, of course. Every question that comes up, it's like her face is like, duh. Do you think it's affecting young men? Because I've heard a lot about, you know, young guys and the way they're having sex nowadays and how there was some comedian that was talking about how porn's really influenced this and it's gotten a bit grapy is the word they used. I've heard from a doctor that came on armchair too that because of porn, they think it's normal to like just come on the girl's face. What's wrong with that?

Even though neither of them really like it or get off on it. Right. No, no, it's true. Like they have a model of like porn sex, which isn't, well, Leah talked about this a little. Didn't she or am I wrong? Maybe not. Maybe just in a conversation with us. But they have this misconception of like what?

sex is going to be or what it should be because it is like a you know, it can be like an emotional thing, a loving thing. You don't have to be rapy. Just use the same word that you comedian used. But it's like painting a picture like you dominate the woman and you, yeah, you know. Yeah, expectations are different. For sure. I believe that.

So Rob left in the middle of the interview, which was very rude. Sorry, Charlotte. That was so disruptive. Yeah, I'm sure she knows. noticed. So Charlotte walks into the house and she's something. Yeah, right? Yes.

Like, she is such a stunning human being. It's awkward. Well, she comes into any room and it's like this burst of like energy and like light and just body. Body. Yeah. I'm like, what did they put in the wall? that's making these girls at her Catholic school.

Like her and all her friends are like all these leggy supermodels. But the coolest thing about Charlotte is she truly is humble and loving and gracious and generous and all the good things of life. Yeah. Because she could be a real pill if I looked like her. Yeah. Me too. You do look like her.

You do, Rob. I know. I agree. She's a very special human. You know what I think would be an interesting topic is something I'd like to learn more about? What? Skateboarding? I wish.

I do too. I wish I cared at all about us. I feel like Charlotte can skateboard. Fucking Charlotte, I'm sure she can. No, she's way too tall on a skateboard. No, she's skateboard. Tony Hawk is tall. He is tall.

There. Dan, corrected. She serves. Did you watch the Tony Hawk documentary? It was very interesting. No, was it good? Yeah. What?

The Sam Jones one. Yes. It was really good. He's sending me a skateboard. Tony Hawk. Oh, yeah, I've seen it in your office. In your background on your Zoom, you have the Tony Hawk. Can you skateboard?

No. Did you ever skateboard? A little bit. My brother tried to teach me when I was little, and he had his own little ramp, and he would just send me off it. I still have scars. This whole area. All the left side of your face. Did you ever skateboard, though?

My brother would put me on the ramp. Yeah. What is that with older brothers and ramps? They're assholes. They are the biggest. assholes. That's why I'm terrified. Like, I don't love swimming because my brother tortured me in the pool as a child. Like, would hold you down until you basically are dead, drown name. What? Yeah. My brother would too. Yeah, they would just fuck with you.

He used to put tobacco sauce all over my chapped lips. It hurts so bad. Like, the smell of tobacco for so long. Can you not eat Tabasco? I don't like to. I'd be like, you know when you were a kid and you have it around your mouth? Oh, and it's like, yeah. Yeah, he'd be like, come here, let me help you. And then he would put it. How many times did you fall for that? I mean, it only took once.

It happened a lot, okay? That is crazy. Well, then once I caught on, he would hold me down and do it. And then he'd hold me down and spit loggies in between my eyes. Yeah, yeah. They would do that where it would like, they would drip out, and then they'd suck it back and drip out and suck it back. But then it would land on your face. Yeah.

Yeah. Tabasco on popcorn is delicious and I learned that from Janet Jackson in poetic justice. Just wanted to say that because it was big. You were working with her in that movie? That was Tupac's stand in.

No, that was like one of my favorite movies when I was like 11 or 12. I used to like Tabasco on Motsubal soup with lemon. I like Tabasco and soup. I like Syracia better than. You like Staratra better? Isn't Staratia like?

better now. Isn't Saracha like supply chain issue right now? Is it? No, there's plenty. There's plenty of saratia. No, there was something going on with the factory at one point. Yeah, they weren't going to be able to get saracha. But there's plenty of it. And you can get like sambal paste is basically. Our foodie knows all. Do you put hot sauce on everything? Not anymore. He used to. Jeff does. Everything. Everything. Like spaghetti. I put spaghetti on a lot. On spaghetti? We took a staggetti? Not spaghetti.

If it was like a... Like an udon noodle, though. Yeah, that makes more sense. But like spaghetti and like tomato sauce? No. No. That changes the whole flavor profile. Yeah.

So we were tortured. Did you torture any of your siblings or were you tortured, Rob? No, not that I recall. I mean. I mean, I feel like, so you and I had that experience. I know Jill, our friend Jill and her brother, definitely had the same kind of experience. I wouldn't say Leah did with her siblings.

Well, she didn't have an older brother. It's an older brother thing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that makes more so. Yeah. That's not the same. It's not the same.

Older brothers. My brother. They would, they would dangle tampons over me. Like used tampons? Oh, no, no, no. I'm like, that's a good one. That is a good one. That is good.

Someone should do that. Yeah Breyer get in here Breyer And like Elliot's like her little brother So don't give her any ideas Elliot moon's Shepherd all the time though

And Shepard beats the shit Out of Elliot Yeah Shepard 3 Elliot 6 Yes It's very amusing to watch He did kick his tooth out of his mouth once

He did Shepard kicked Elliot's tooth out of his mouth You think Cal and Vincent will be like that I hope not I hope Calvin's old enough There's enough of an age different that hopefully he's not a shithead to him. I mean, my brother was seven years older than me, and that didn't stop him.

My brother's four and a half years older than me. Calvin's also like the sweetest. He is very gentle. Yeah. Calvin's a gentle soul. He gives kisses. He like, threw the door the other day. He just like saw you and was like, oh.

Yeah, he likes to. I'll just, he'll be wearing a mask still and he'll do it. And I just hear the. Oh, it's so cute. Like, you guys ran into. Jill at a concert and he had never met her before and he kissed her. He had a kiss on the cheek. He's so sweet. He's so terrible. Yeah, he's so cute. And you guys are done. Didn't you say Natalie's done but you're not sure? Yeah. Well, it kind of, that doesn't work then if Natalie's done.

Do you think she could change her mind? Maybe. Is that just you thinking that or do you really believe that? She doesn't like the whole pregnancy part of it. Oh. And what it does to her body. Okay. But it's also very fresh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You get far enough away from it, and you're like, yeah. I forgot about this. Yeah, right away, I used to say it's like going back to the restaurant you got food poisoning at. You're just like, I'm going to stay away from there for a little while. Literally food poisoning, shitting your brains out and puking at the same time.

Did you do that during labor? Fuck yeah. You shit your brains out and puked at the same time? I mean, I don't know if it was exactly that, but I was definitely puking. Did you have diarrhea? During labor? Before. Before.

Like the 24 to 48 hours before? No, not before. I was watching the office when I went into labor. And Steve Carell was talking and I was like... Oh, not the Ricky Trevace one? No, it was Steve Correll. And you know how Michael is on the office. And that's all I heard while I started to have contractions.

And I wanted to kill him. I was like, turn out of? Didn't you have the salad too from Coyote? Yes. The... Salad. Yeah. There's like a book at this restaurant in Studio City.

Called Coyote. We sent you there. Oh, yeah. Didn't we send you there? You told us about it. But Natalie couldn't eat it because there was cheese. There was cheese and she was like, I'm eating all of the stuff that they have in this to induce already. Oh, fine.

Fine. Put me in labor. Put me in labor too. Me too. Well, guys. It's been real. That was a hate gum podcast.