Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Colton Underwood on The Bachelor, Male Fertility, and Feet

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Colton Underwood [The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, The Masked Singer] talks to Rachel and Olivia about jumping the fence, coming out as a christian, and his new podcast about male fertility. They also discuss The Masked Singer, dangerous animals, and feet.Broad Ideas is supported by Maybelline. If you, or someone you know is experiencing anxiety or depression, Maybelline New York is funding free, confidential support: Text TOGETHER to 741741 or visit Maybelline.com/bravetogether to learn more.Broad Ideas is supported by IQBAR. Get 20% off all IQBAR products. Text IDEAS to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details.Broad Ideas is supported by Posh Peanut. Go to PoshPeanut.com/BROAD, and use promo code BROAD for 20% off your first order.Broad Ideas is supported by Paired. Share the love this Mother’s Day by going to paired.com/ideas to get a 7-day free trial and 25% off if you sign up for a subscription.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Today we have Colton Underwood, former football player, TV personality, best known for The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, probably one of the most well-known of the franchise. He has his new podcast, Daddyhood. Let's welcome Colton, who did not hop a fence during this interview. Sometimes when the second side of Rachel's little brain

All these thoughts are swirling round and round inside To join us on this journey as we take a little ride We'll talk about dogs and kids and things We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings We'll talk about boys Because people die Oh my gosh. Colby, you are, I'm so happy you're here.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, I was a huge fan of yours because I am a bachelor. I know, but yes, I tend to watch The Bachelor from time to time. There's a lot of people. People are a little sheepish, they're like, I've watched and I'm like, I mean, Jen Aniston is like one of the biggest fans. What? I didn't know that.

She put my season in one of her Netflix movies. She did. It was so cool. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's like, hello, I've made it. She's, yeah. She's always was like my celebrity crush growing up to us.

Everyone. Me too. We keep coming across that. Gay, straight by, they're all. It's all Jennifer Aniston. We played this game with these young guys and we were like, that sounds really weird. We play weird games with young guys.

Welcome, Colty. I love this podcast already. But we were like, okay, well, who's your celebrity crush? Yeah. Like, who would you pick, blah, blah, blah. They were all like, Jim Franston. Two out of the three said Jennifer Anderson. And we're like, but she's not even your celebrity crush.

generation and they're like she's the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, she's got really good energy. She does. Like even though she's a female, like she has like that boss. Like the guys are like, she's like feels like the guy's guy, but then she's a girl and like this strong, independent, powerful woman. Yeah. I love her. She's also funny as shit. She's funny as shit. Yeah. I don't know if you notice walking in my dormat says, I mean, no, whatever. It says. I thought you were going to say. I didn't pay much attention to the dormant, but I will on the way out. Well, naturally doesn't everybody? I thought you were going to say, I don't know if you notice walking in, but so am I. Oh.

That too. But it's like deliveries or Ross and Rachel on a break and one side says yes and one side says no. That's funny. It's all, you know what? In my defense, it's worn out. Your deliveries get to choose the side every time. Yeah. Love it.

Mostly they say yes. They say they were on a break. Yeah. I agree. I agree. I do too. I agree. People have issues with that when you agree. But I fully do they? Yeah, because they're rooting for them so hard. So hard. I think that's what lets people, like, clouds their judgment. Yeah. So you watch Friends. I did. Okay, good. Yeah. We're cool. I'm a big Chandler fan.

That was my spirit animal for sure. Oh, you were a Chandler. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I get it. We always do those games. Like, who are you in this show? Like, who, what character are you in sex in the city? Yeah. Do you read? time. I don't watch sex in the city. Yeah. It's really fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. It's a good one for me again too. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's time. And you've arrived. I love it. Here we go. I know. Let's get into it. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, watched you on The Bachelor, obviously. Yeah. That's where it all started. You came from. You played football. Like, that was like the biggest thing they would say about you. I feel like that was like your blurb. Yeah. They had my, I always say like America met the ABC version of me. They had like, me.

down what they wanted to market me and promote me as. And it was the football player virgin. And I was like, cool. All right. That's what you're going with. Right. Here we go. They really went with it. Yes, they did. But those things were true, right? Yeah. Yeah, they were. So it was, but I didn't want it. Like, I wasn't overly thrilled that they were leaning into my virginity because, like, there was obviously, it was a very complex thing where I hid behind my faith a little bit, but also I could never like fully explain to the viewers. Like, there would have been no. for women to watch me and be like, I'm a version because I'm questioning my sexuality. That was never an option in my brain. And also, I don't think ABC would probably have wanted that

as, like, for where the show is at and what its fans are. But they should have. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. How interesting would it be for people to be transparent and honest and, like, you know, relatable, I'm sure, to so many people watching, I feel like your most infamous thing. Oh, wait, that was when, yes, when you hopped the fence.

Jumped the fence. Yeah. in that season with like clearly some lot was going on. Explain. Can you please? Well, the funniest thing is after I came out, all of the gays were like, we should have known you were gay with how dramatic you were in your show. Because I like quit the show.

They were like, girl. They were like, girl we knew when you jumped that fence and quit the show in the most dramatic way ever. It was so dramatic and epic. There was just something that I was happening like behind the scenes and I was like basically like, yo, if she ends up breaking up with me, I'm done with the show. So like if you're planning on doing this to me, then like you don't have a show. And I like left.

And yeah, it was a longer, but ended up coming back to finish it, but I was basically like, you can't do this. He jumped in high, high fence. High drama. Yeah, yeah. It was in like in the Portugal countryside.

I was running around at night, evading production. It was magical. Why'd you do that? There was a lot going on in my life, if you could imagine. A lot of thoughts going on and I was trying to figure it all out.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you, you know, you left with someone at the end of the season and pursued it and did all of that. And then went through COVID and had a mental breakdown. Really? Yeah. It was really bad. It was a really hard time in my life. And like a lot of people, through now years of therapy. I mean, it was for the first time in my life I couldn't run. So I was very good at flying. So fight or flight. I always would fly just onto the next. to the next thing over the fence, just get me out of the situation.

I'm going to go put my energy somewhere else. I never really fought or stood up for myself. So I went through a really rough patch, moved back to Colorado during the pandemic and got help and got off medication. And my family really supported me. On or off medication? Off medication. Okay. Yeah, I was abusing it.

My anxiety meds. Okay. So, and yeah, I just needed help. And I finally got it. And then through my therapy and my meetings with my psychologist, I started the coming out process to myself and to that. To yourself. So you hadn't even got up. Oh, I had to come out to myself first because it was going to take a lot to like, yeah.

Yeah. So I came out to myself and then I came out to my publicist because who doesn't in Hollywood. I mean, there was just, you know, how the industry is. There is like some photos that people claim. they had. It was a whole, it was a thing. Part of the machine. Yep. So, yeah, my Paulusus was a gay man who really helped me as well. That's amazing. Yeah. So it's been a journey. I would love to know what that was like because I know, you know, we've talked to so many people

in different stages of coming out, right? And when you say you came out to yourself during that period of time, what was it like before when you went to do The Bachelor? Did you think you were straight or what was that process like like what came into your consciousness where you were like oh no this is the reality of what's going on great question i i didn't think i was straight i hoped that i was straight like i prayed that i was straight i was like everything i did leading up and even on the bachelor was to make myself straight and i was like so convinced that like once you get a girlfriend once you get engaged once you have a wife you won't have these desires anymore Once you have kids, you definitely can't, you know, cheat on her and go outside of your, like, I just, which is a toxic approach to it, but I was basically like, the further along I get with this means that I can't do that.

Right. And obviously that's not how it works, but that was sort of how I convinced myself. Right. And you grew up in a religious household. Yeah. I grew up in the Catholic Church and playing football and wanting to be a dad. And like those three things really, it hits you really early on that, or at least for me it did. that I couldn't be gay and have those because there wasn't a lot of,

there's not a lot of representation in football with gay men. Obviously, the church has a long history of problematic things towards our community. Organized and structured religion. I still am a Christian and a man of faith. It's just not in a organized structured way. I love that. Yeah. So it's been fun.

The coming out process for me has been a really cool, complex layers of what parts of me do I get to keep and what parts do I get to grow. And it's been, that's been like the coolest part in this. Wow. Yeah. That's so cool. I also feel like it takes, yes, I understand that whole process. But I also think it takes a lot of courage to be gay and come out as Christian.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I love that. That you're like, that's the organized religious aspect, but I still have my faith. And that is a different thing than we're used to hearing. Yeah, I had a whole therapy session actually dedicated just to that because I said to my therapist, I said, I'm so nervous. If I come out as gay, my Christian community is not going to want me.

And if I come out as Christian, the gay community is not going to want me a part of it. Because they really are like, they don't mix. So I was like, what do I do? And they're like, just then how would you explain it? And that's how I did. I said, I am a man of God and my faith. And now I say this. I say being gay has made me a better Christian.

Christian because like you learn how to love. Like I truly was like if more Christians were gay, we would have Christianity be really nice. But instead they're so judgmental and I'm like, this is not what is taught and or preached and or should be happening. A hundred percent. Wasn't the basis of everything? Shouldn't it be love?

And isn't it like universal? Yeah. And I think that's so beautiful. And to be able to marry those two. Yeah. And I also don't think it's, like you say, the organization and the religion, like, one of my kids went to a Catholic school. And I never came across judgy people, right, in that faith. I was like, all the people are outstanding.

Where is this judgment coming from? Like, where does that exist? Grandma. Yeah, but when you sit down with Grandma, if you were to sit down with Grandma and actually explain, this is what I'm feeling, most people are going to come from. from love that are true faith-based people. If they're really faith-based people, they are going to come from love. But there's this kind of subculture to it that where does it live in the bushes? Like, I don't understand.

Yeah. I think from my work, because I had to do a lot of healing and work, I put a lot of work in, and I met with pastors, and I did Bible study. And I continued to do that even after I was out. all away from telling, you know, when I was talking to a pastor, they told me if I truly wanted to be a Christian, I would leave my homosexuality tendencies behind. And like, even hearing that, it just sort of reassured me that, like, I'm, I'm on the right path and I'm, you know, it's, it's just hard, you know, for the people who are so, like, involved in that, I hate even saying this beat, but it's so true, like, that business. Because that's at the end of the

what it has become and what it was never intended to be. The Catholic Church owns the most land and has one of the biggest businesses in our world. And I think once I realized that is like, oh, this is the business side of things. This is not God's side of things. It helps me. Weirdly, because I was like, okay, like that church, that's a business. Right. Like they are a business operating and they made a business decision by taking a stance against me and members of my community, not excusing them, not saying it's right, but just I will not be a part of that business. And I will not be supporting that business and I will not be contributing to it. Right.

But you can't take it in my God. Exactly. Yeah. And you can't say that. I'm not Christian because that's who are you to say that? Right. Right. Yeah.

And it's been really cool. It's been really rewarding because when I first came out, I didn't really feel like I had a place in the LGBTQ plus community. Like there wasn't, it just, I was met with some criticism and also like I didn't really know where I fit in. I didn't really watch drag race or I didn't, you know, I wasn't part of the parade. So like, I'm like, what am I doing here? And it took me a while to figure out my lane. And there's a lot of Christian gay men. There's also a lot of men in the middle of our country that need representation and help and understanding that you can be all of these things too and still be gay. Right. Yeah. And how's your family with everything? They've been really good.

They've been really supportive. Bless them. They did not sign up for the TV career. that like I got myself into. Right. And they're sort of, you know, like not collateral, but they get hit with some shrapnel every once in a while from just how public my life has been. And they've been the best for all this.

That's so nice. Yeah. All that support. Totally. Yeah. And you have your husband now. Yes. I'm sure the biggest support.

Yeah. I would say, you know, I get asked every once in a while, like, did you feel like the bachelor was a waste of time? I always say like I learned how to date with such intent from that show because I filmed three seasons in one year. So like it was a really intense filming schedule for like. Wait, the Bachelorette, the Bachelor. Paradise and Paradise.

How did I forget? Ten days. It was a crying nightmare for me. Okay. Maybe that you're like. No sleep, no air conditioning, not a good mixer made. That was a mess. Oh my God.

Yeah. So I was there for like 10 days or whatever filming that. But Paradise was always like the most fun to watch because it was such a shit show. Exactly. You know. Fun for the viewers. Yes. Not for you.

Not for you. We had crabs in our bed and it was hot. Crabbs in your bed? Oh yeah. It was not the STD kind, but the literal kind. Yes, yes. It was like both. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh my God. Okay. So yeah, I did that. And then, you know, obviously after I came out, I went on a bunch of dates and then met Jordan. And I was casual when we first met. And then it just progressed. And I try to keep it as private as possible at the beginning of it,

just because I had been obviously in a public relationship and it was not healthy for me. So we tried to protect it as much as we could. And then once it got out, it got out. And we sort of just went with it. Yeah. Yeah. That's so wonderful.

Well, it's also adapting to, I think that there's boundaries, right? Yeah. Like you can, because you guys are doing the podcast, right? Yeah. So it's like you can choose what you put out there. Right. So that's the thing that he's been so good at. Jordan isn't really a public person. He likes to operate behind the scenes. He's really talented at what he does. He's in social

impact and politics and sort of at the cross section of culture, celebrity, and politics and social impact. So he's very much a mover and shaker behind the scenes. But it's been really healthy for me, too, because I'll go to do something and be like, let's think about this for a second. And like, the old me is it like, I just go, go, go, and do it. And he's like, what are, the, you know, repercussions of you saying this or doing this. Right. Really good partner for me. I was about to say that's a great partner to have to be like, hold on.

Let's think about this. I think I need that a little bit. I definitely do things without thinking about this. He was the best thing for me. Like being able to sort of rein me back in and I'm a more is more type guy and he's a less is more and it's a good marriage. Yeah. That's great.

Yeah. Marriage. And you guys actually like had the wedding. and like, yeah. Yeah. That is just so cool. I know.

It's just, it was special. Yeah. Because I, he, I basically, when I knew, I was just like,

whenever you're ready, you can ask me. I was like, I've already, I've already been there, done that, just like, you take,

you take the lead on this one. Yeah. And how long did it take? Um, after I said that, yeah, probably three more months. Okay.

Yeah. It happened very quickly. Was he your first relationship with the man? My, my first emotional relationship that I connected with. Like I said, I mean, I went on a few dates. Yeah. And I'm not really like a grass is greener type guy.

So once like we hit it off, I was like, this is everything and more than I ever needed. And then just fall more and more in love with him every day. He's, yeah, it's truly the best. It was meant to be. Yeah. Yeah. It was seriously. And I wasn't looking for it.

And he wasn't either. And it just like, that's how it happened. Yeah. Wait, did you say you were set up or you were on an app or what? No, we, after the Netflix show, there was a Netflix rap party at Hotel Figaro downtown. We went there and we were on the rooftop and he was part of the group that was there. We said hi just in the two months later we were both on a trip to Ptown in Cape Cod. Oh, that's random.

Yeah. And bad weather happened and we ended up having to be sort of indoors the entire time and we just bonded for three days straight. And it was really cool. So it just happened naturally. Right place, right time. Totally. I love when, especially when, like, weather has something to do with it. You're like, that was written in the stars.

Totally. You know? We were at like a house party and everybody was like partying and we were like watching a movie in the living room under a blanket, like holding hand. Oh, I love it. Yeah. That's really sweet. Yeah, it was really cool. I used to always say I'm like, whoever I have that moment in the rain with like I'm going to marry them.

Our first kiss was in the rain. There you go. You're living out my fantasy. Yeah. Thank you for doing that. It was great. It is great. Okay, so tell us a little bit about the podcast.

Yeah, daddyhood. Daddyhood. So, yeah, I mean, I was sort of in a phase where I was like, okay, Jordan doesn't really want cameras back in the house. So, like, reality television of, like, following my life is off the, like, table now. Got it. Respect it. Totally. Totally.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. But I was like, when we first started the fertility process, my, my. My agent at CA was like the only one who helped me build the team because like there wasn't anybody who had information or was like public about it. So I sort of saw this need for men especially to speak up around fertility because when I first got tested I had no sperm.

So like and that's actually more common than a lot of people think, but men have, um, and myself included an ego attached that was this like, what do you mean? Like that's the one function we can do and contribute towards sex and for the, right. building a family. And they don't like to talk about it. Yeah. So I was like, I will. And I, we went through, you know, the process of just starting a podcast and doing that. And it's been awesome. I feel like it's helped someone. You guys should have my husband on. He does, he's, I hear him, I overhear him talking about men's sperm every day because he's a doctor. Oh, yeah. You're like, no, he's a porn star. He's a porn star. You'll like him.

Hot, great. No, but I hear it day in and day out is him working. to get men's sperm count up because it is so common. And nobody talks about it. And a lot of the times a lot of these guys are doing like performance enhancing drugs. I was on testosterone too for different. Like I had low T coming out of football and that is actually somewhat of a birth control for men. Like it serves as it. That's what it is.

Yeah. Oh, wow. But nobody talks about that. Why? I don't understand. In my experience, I think. I think our sex ed system has failed us in many ways, but I would have loved to been educated on what products, supplements, medications affect my sperm quality and count during a sex ed class

instead of learning how to put a condom on a banana. I think that is something I could say confidently and what I think is part of the problem. And then also just men struggle to have vulnerable conversations. So when hard times come up, men don't like to talk about not having sperm to other men. That's not like a topic of conversation. No, you guys don't just like in the locker room. No, not something you talk about quite often. Right.

But to your point, because I had some, you know, sperm experts and also fertility doctors come on. Right now, sperm counts are decreasing by 2% every single year. Do they know why? It's a mix of diets, medications, products, and I mean, all the way from, you know, there's slight data that shows cell phones in front pockets. materials of under different types of materials of underwear. Really? Working like for me it was hot tub, saunas, steam rooms, pelotoning.

What? So anything that like comes in touch with the scrotum and or heats up the temperature of the scrotum, it cooks your sperm. And it takes three months. It takes three months to make sperm. So. This is very. It's so fascinating. It's so fascinating.

I know. Yeah. So that's just what you're doing. diving into all the time. Diving into it. Yes. This episode of Broad Ideas is brought to you by Mabelene. For over a century,

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So that's just what you're diving into all the time. Diving into it. You're just getting into the ball sack. I bet you didn't have on your bingo card talking about sperm on your podcast, but here we are. Let me talk about. Okay, great. I hear it every day. I'm not even kidding.

My husband will be like, I got someone this amount of sperm. I'm like, you got someone pregnant. Like, he gets people's sperm up. Yeah. And he's always so happy because he'll take people off things, put people on, like, supplements and do, that's what he does. So what did you do to get your guys going? So when we went in just to give you like a baseline of where we're at, they like gave Jordan, like the doctor presented and goes, Jordan, you have 55 million sperm per sample. Like, this was great.

And they go, Colton, you have four. And they're all dead. And I was like, oh, okay. And so it sort of hit me really hard, and he was so supportive, and he helped support me in doing, making all my changes. But I basically just cut out everything. The only thing I had going for me is I don't wear underwear. I go commando. So, like, that was like the one thing I had in my favor.

But I got off of the medications and entered essentially, I did sperm rehabilitation on my own just with supplementation, different products, this incredible product called we natal. these women, these two badass women founded this company and it's just like really cool prenatal vitamins for both men and women. There we go. I love it. Boost, yeah. Shameless plug by. I mean, I vouch for them and like the product because it helps. And you stopped eating your balls.

Yes, that too. Here's something I would love to know if you guys have talked about because a friend reached out to me recently and, you know, he's probably like, 40 years old, hasn't had a kid. And he's like, you know what's not talked about is not necessarily fertility with men, but men that want to have a baby and haven't. And as women, we talk about that all the time, like, okay, well, what are your options? Spurn donor. And there's these men that are silently suffering with the fact that they haven't had that opportunity yet. And he was like, it would be an amazing conversation for you guys on the podcast if you would talk to men about that experience of wanting to have children. So I'm curious if you guys would talk about that in your podcast

or what your thoughts are on that. Great. I mean, great question. I do a lot of work of just humanizing the fertility experience in general. I think one of the things that I've said over and over and I will continue to say is I feel like IVF is severely misunderstood as a whole from the general population. I think most people when they hear IVF, they think last resort. That's like the desperate measure for for women and or families to get pregnant. It's like, oh, I have to do IVF. When in reality, IVF should be a preventative medicine and a tool in your toolkit to expand your family. And we should sort of reshift to the focus and or like I'm a big advocate on obviously women freezing their eggs at a young age, but also men, because you never know, you know later on in life any health issues that come up,

all away from, you know, childhood cancer. I have a friend who used their, like, I just had him on, and he talks about it so I can say, but Jesse and Justin, Justin had cancer as a young boy, and his family and mom had the knowledge to freeze his sperm at 14. No way. And they used his 14-year-old sperm to make his IVF baby. Are you serious? People, so.

What beautiful. Right. Right. Having the force. That's. So I think just shifting the conversation of, fertility to preventative medicine, like anything else in life is really important. And also, I just think it's important to acknowledge that, like, family planning has changed so

much over the years. People are prioritizing their career and prioritizing families on their own, solo families to your point of your friend. Like, men, I knew I always wanted to be a dad. I could probably confidently say, even if I didn't meet Jordan within three years, I would have tried to become a father, some one way or another. Like, it was a goal of mine. It was something that I felt like I was born to do.

So yeah, family planning has changed so much. Yeah, we just had this conversation how like even women, like they want to do it older or men or whatever. Yeah. Because like to your point, career, life, you just, I mean, in my experience, like, it makes sense. Totally. You know? Totally. How old are you?

I'm 32. You're 32. Yeah. Yeah. So you're still young. And my husband's 41. Yeah. So.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like exactly when it's happening. But it's so cool. but you guys are being so open in having these conversations. Yeah. We've had a blast with it.

And he's been such a sport. He's joined me for a few episodes now. And, you know, he's not afraid to talk on the pod. I'm really proud of him because, you know, he even told me that this year that was one of his goals was he really wanted to work. Because, like, we'd be out in public and a bachelor fan would come up. And they would ask Jordan, like, what did you think of this?

And he's like, I didn't watch. He's like, I started to sound like a dick that I didn't like support my husband. So he's like, you know, I do realize, like, we sort of have a role in a responsibility as a couple to really, like, give back a little bit and also educate. So he's really done an awesome job with doing something that's outside of his comfort zone. Has he watched any of it now? He's watched all of it. He's watched all of it.

And that was outside of his comforts. I didn't watch with him. No, no, just watched my bachelor season. Okay, okay. I was going to say, why did he watch? He watched your bachelor season. It's funny. I didn't watch with him, but I would hear him, like, either laugh or, you know, our pillow.

little talk would be, why did you keep her? So we've had to get into it. That sounds fun. Oh, yeah. Like, he loved Hannah Brown. And then, like, he was so opinionated with it all. Oh, yeah, we had Hannah. Oh, she's the best.

She's so awesome. Yeah. I loved her on the show, because she was just herself. Yes. Right? She's one of the most authentic people, I think I've ever met. Like, the first date, Hannah and I went on. We talked about this on her podcast, but she couldn't get over the fact that there was

like a dangling mic. You know how, like, on set, they have mics. And she's like, I can't focus. with this fuzzy thing in my face. I was like, actually it was weirdly a breath of fresh air, but at the time I'm like, we're making a TV show. Come on, help me out here. I can't keep, like, this is feeling like a lot for me here.

She's great though. Yeah, yeah, he watched it all and he was like, how did the audience not know you were gay? And I was like, you're just watching it through a different lens now. Totally. So that's why. Yeah, I don't, it wasn't like, that wasn't people were questioning or anything.

No. Like, no. Like, you was just, you were, you were, honest. Yeah. As honest as I could be. As honest as I could be within the realms of a highly produced show. Yes.

I think that's it. And people always talk about how highly produced it is and like the expectations. They have a job to do and they're very good at their jobs. Right. Apparently. Very good. But I love that your husband is like we have an obligation. That is related.

Yeah. And respectable. And it's also true. And so many people are. provided platforms and it's like how are we adding to the world benefiting and how are we subtracting, right? Totally. And it sounds to me like you guys are making a choice to add quality into the world and educating people and so much of what men go through is silent. It's freaking suicide with men. Like men's mental health, men's fertility, the things that men silently struggle with is not okay.

And we as women can do what we can do to nurture that. But you need men out there saying it's okay to be vulnerable. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, you hit on a good point because like oftentimes women bear the burden of men not, you know, knowing how to ask for help and or being vulnerable and practicing vulnerability. So oftentimes when they are, it's with their partner and the women in their life. And it's a hard position to be in for the women too. because everybody has their battles.

Sure. Yeah. But yeah, you know, I became after my own mental health crisis, I became a big advocate for mental health. I mean, you know, I was on Lexa Pro and Xanax for a while just with depression and anxiety. As, you know, like TV had its ups, like his pros and cons. Like it was fun to be famous for 18 months. And then it was fun to make money how I was making money. I was like, I never thought this life would be possible.

But then, you know, it has repercussions and it has a negative effect, too, that nobody really talks about a ton. And there's like that dark side of television, too, that, you know, when you're off camera and your show goes away and you're not relevant anymore, do people still hold value? Do you value yourself? And that is something that I think, you know, men should talk about a lot because men are very performative based in a lot of things that they do. So when they're not performing, they don't feel like they're adding value to themselves or a situation. Tough. I know. Myself included, yeah.

Yeah, but you've been so open, you know, even with your struggles. I know, like, obviously it's been publicized and people have watched or at the time watched what you were going through. And you kind of did put it out there to a certain degree. But it just goes to show now, like talking about everything and being vulnerable and the journey and all of it is, what I think that people can like look up to and learn from and really respect you know yeah I mean even being able to wear ridiculous costume and sing yeah is like I know I mean the love the love bird is what I was so of course you were the love bird yeah I was just saying you know it was like everybody's like it was like it was like it was but it also had such a deep meaning for me

because I sort of for the, like, you know, for the first time, got to love and appreciate myself for things that I hated myself for so long. So it was like, everybody's like, oh, of course he's a love bird. I'm like, no, I'm the love bird because like I finally had like self-love for and, you know, for a first time and a long time. And of course, Jordan and I will always be his lovebird too. But it was just like there was a cool freedom for me to like, it is so full circle and had so much like doing a show like The Mask Singer, like putting a mask back on and going on because I wore a different type of mask when I was The Bachelor. And like, now I get to put this mask on and go do something that I was like terrified to do,

but was so fun. And like that was my first time back to TV where I actually like wasn't dealing with a heavy situation. Every other show I've done, I had to like talk about something or explain something or it was so serious. So like when people see me, they're like, oh, you like smile and have a good time. It's like, that's who I am. Right. Every time you saw me on TV, though, I was like dealing with something that I had to talk about.

Right. Do you feel less exhausted? Because I find that the most exhausting thing, like I could be busy all day long, doing a million things. But when I have to fake anything, that is exhausting. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like when you have to muster up that like, I don't feel this way and I'm going to put a mask over it. And that to me is exhausting. Yeah. Do you feel more energized from the freedom of not? Yeah. I mean, yes.

Loaded question, but yes. And it wasn't so much like exhaustion for that. It was more so exhaustion from keeping my story straight. Because like I live such a compartmentalized life where my high school friends never met my college friends because I would tell my college friends I was going home, but I would tell them that I'm like having this great time in college. And meanwhile, I'm, like, either sitting in my room alone and or, like, trying to, like, secretly explore men in a physical way. And so I never felt comfortable.

It was so, it's like a spider web of lies. And then you're not, like, intentionally trying to do it because you think you're protecting yourself. It's just, it gets out of control very quickly. Yeah. And it becomes, yeah, super exhausting in that point. Yeah. Keeping your story straight. Yeah.

I mean, lying is. It is exhausting. It is. I should know. I'm sorry. You should stop doing it. I wouldn't know if this is a less serious question. But like, so do you get to conceptualize and come up with your costume and the name and everything?

She's like, we go back to the class. No, I will say this though. No, but they do such a good job at that show. Like they, I come in and they're like, we have this all figured out. What do you think of this, this and this? Got it. I would give them feedback. Yeah.

Costume, not so much. Like costume. I was like, great, whatever. Like, and they hit it on the head. And they're like, what, and they would work with me and be like, what does this visualize and mean to you? And like, that's sort of how they build your story, which it was just, it was such a healthy experience. Everybody has different experiences in Hollywood on shows. This was one of the best, like, from start to finish experiences I had.

And it's so underwrapped because nobody can know who anyone is. And yeah, I don't even know who else is on my season. Wait, you don't. I mean, Kevin Hart got eliminated night one in my block. And then, yeah. You only know once they're eliminated. Yeah, like Billy Bush has been eliminated. Savannah, Crisley got eliminated. Cisco got eliminated.

There's like a few. There was talented singers on there. Hey. I mean, more than. And you stayed in. I just heard the thong song. I did. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, these were the important questions, guys. Now I'm going to ask a really heavy one and then she's going to go back. Let's balance it out. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going back to paradise. I love it. I have a question. Do you feel deep darkness in your soul? She'll be like, what about the... Bachelor of Paradise. Tell me more. What was your drink?

Yes, yes, yes. But I do have a question because I... You know, you spoke on the experience of getting that fame and experiencing the Bachelor and all that attention. And then going into the pandemic and going inward. And I feel like you came out of it with self-love and obviously that manifested into partnership love, right? Yeah. But what I hear in that is such a gift. I'm like the darkest things.

And like most people wouldn't think getting famous or going through that is dark. But it ignites the ego in a way that I don't think most people are prepared to deal with. Yeah. Right? And your self-worth and you're questioning all that to the point where you hit your knees and be like, who am I? What am I here for? Yeah. I didn't because there was a lot going on in the media and for the first time I wasn't in control

and like that was hard and like there was things out there that were like half truths and things that were being said about man or articles and it's like you can't I mean I don't know if you've dealt with this in the past in years history but like you can't just like deep on half of something like you can never just take accountability for half you sort of just have to be like yeah this is I mean, this is, because there is no picking it apart. So at a certain point, you know, I basically, after I was healthy enough to start, you know, working with my team again to like figure out what was going on. And also, I didn't come out to them right away because I came out with my therapist.

So to them, they were just confused. They were like, this is not who we signed. This is not who we know. This is not who we've been working with for the last four years. What is going on? Meanwhile, like, you know, I moved back in with my dad. I surrendered my medication and my phone to him. And like I was, you know, sort of in an intense healing time.

So not a lot of outside people, which ended up protecting me because that was when it was sort of the worst in the press. So he sort of strategically did that for me. That's smart. But it just, I think I finally just had the conversation of my therapist as I was healing through it. And it was like, I'm just going to own everything and just say I fucked up. I'm a like I need to work on myself a lot and I did the work. I put the work in and that's life. And that's what I like I try to remind people and not only the LGBT post community,

but all the communities out there is you will fall short at some point, whether it's severely and or minorly, but it's like how do you respond to that? And like that's what I sort of is cool from me taking from like my athletic career. It's like you mess up, right? Like that's the value of sports that I like want my kids to play so bad. We just talked about this too. Yeah.

So like I'm fighting with Jordan right now because I'm like if our kid is, you know, they're going to play sports. I was like there's so many life lessons to learn from sports. You need to learn how to lose. You need to learn how to have a bad game because life does not always go to plan. A hundred percent. And that was like the silver lining for me is I got back on the horse. Yeah. I owned as much as I could, you know, what had happened in my life.

And I moved on. Right. And I'm not like, I'm not in a position where I'm like, I'm not giving up. Like I'm not just going to go away. I'm not going to give up. I'm going to put work in. I want to be a part of all these amazing, beautiful communities that I've sort of had my back turned to for so long. Here I am. Right. It's been great. Support for broad ideas comes from posh peanut. Your kids grow fast. But that doesn't mean they have to outgrow their favorite items after only a few months.

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Yeah. And we're here to take you back to all the stuff that made you go to the... Love it. No. Because like, so during the pandemic, like, you were quarantined with your girlfriend at the time in her family, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of when everything sort of, like, should hit the fan, so just because I just remember seeing things in the press and whatever.

Yeah, I was doing like a, it was, because my book was coming out at that time too. Right. So I was doing, like, a memoir. Like a... It was a memoir. Right? And which, like, even in the book, I was like, I'm not gay. And it was just...

I'm not gay. Yeah. Well, it was called, I think it was called finding myself and looking for love on reality TV. Yeah. And you're like, it was all a lie. It wasn't all a lie, but it was definitely like, yeah, it was hard. Yeah. I imagine, because that's all coming out and you're like, I'm supporting this and I have to

promote this. And a lot of your truths weren't in there. And then even when I was going through my mental health crisis, like they were, because it became a New York Times Swiss seller and then they were re-releasing a paperback version. And so like that was how. happening at the time while this was going, it was just. It was too much at once. It was a lot for a human being to take on.

It's actually for anything. Yeah. Yeah. And did you, were you having conversations like when you were in the relationship at the time with her, were you ever like honestly having these conversations? No. No. It was never.

That was never. Yeah. It was not on the table. There was definitely times in my past with all of like my exes that I wish I would have handled differently. Yeah. could have like, you only know what you know and you only feel safe to a certain degree. And I wish I would have opened the door a little bit more to some of my exes where I could have been

like just seen maybe a female energy and or like ask. Yeah. And I don't know if I ever would have actually fully been honest. But yeah, there could have been moments. But you weren't fully honest with yourself. That's the thing because I didn't want to be. Right. So there was every like even I remember, you know, any of.

our gay friends in town when I was living here, I wouldn't want to hang out with. Because they're like, oh, they have a gator. They're going to be able to sniff this out. Oh, they're going to know. Oh, they're going to nut. Yeah. Wow. So I really, like, tried as hard as I could not to be gay. Yeah. Yeah, that's exhausting.

Yes, to your point. It's very exhausting. It has to because I just think of having, I have two boys. And I'm like, I would never want my kid to have to ever pretend that they were. anything other than what they are. You know, like, that is a tough thing to go through. And also, I understand why you didn't say it to any of your exes, because in your mind, you didn't want to hurt them. Yeah. I think that was it. And like, obviously, like, what I ended up doing is hurting myself and hurting people I was, you know, close to and or close to me by doing it. But I, you know, as much as like I try not to live with regrets, I and obviously I could always admit,

things could have been better. I do think, unfortunately, things had to happen how they had to happen. And I say that because like, I don't know if I would have came out without the pandemic without hitting rock bottom without feeling like my life was over. Like that truly as dark as that sounds, I mean, there's a lot of men out there that are closeted and or married

and have families. And, you know, my heart goes out to men like that. And I think like that, you know, at the end of the day, that's sort of what I'm most proud with the Netflix show is like, hopefully I stop some men from entering into a life that is inauthentic to what and who they are. Right. Because that easily could have been me. And like, in a perfect world would have been me if I didn't go through and experience what I went through.

So, yeah. Yeah. So there was a blessing in hitting your knees. Yeah. But that's what they say. Darkest before the dawn. Yeah. You know?

And that's true. and it's almost like the elevator to it. You took the, you know, the fast ride. Fast ride. Fast ride up, down, which will fall. Fast ride down and then there was a slow ride up. Slow up. I like to think I'm still on the elevator.

Yeah. You absolutely are. And everything you're doing, you know, it just proves that. Yeah. It proves you're on the elevator. I'm still on the elevator. You're still here. Yes.

Yes. We will attest. Yeah, but it's just, it's so refreshing your honesty, you know, and just being willing to talk about it and in the public eye, and it's not easy to do. Yeah. So we really commend. Thank you. I commend it. I mean, it's, I don't.

She doesn't. I do, I do. No, but then, yeah, we like to have a little fun. We're going to have a little fun. Do you like to lighten it up? Do you like fun? I love fun. It's your thing.

I need fun. Okay, cool. Good. Okay. These might be heavy. They might be fun. We don't know what we don't know what we're going to get. I don't even know what's in here.

Like, have you ever looked at your wiki feet? That's a hard in here. That's a good question. You have! Well, I didn't know how much gay men were into feet until after I came out. And I was just curious what my score was. I had a good score. What is it?

I'd like to think it was like a nine out of ten, which is a... Where have you exposed your feet that they have pictures of? Any story that I've ever posted on my Instagram and or, post that has my feet, they've zoomed it and cropped in only the feet. It's a wild sight if anybody's ever been there. People are really into feet out there. Yes. It's a thing.

I think they either rank you out of nine out of ten and or out of five stars, but I feel like I was like in the upper 80%, which is great. I felt good. You felt good. Yes. You're like my feet won. It was a shock. It was a shock. I was like, cool.

You know, like, athletes. Yeah. Who's in this sock? Who's in this sock? That's a long toe eddie in there. What can you say during sex that you can also say at the drive-thru window? Ooh. Part of it, this doesn't have to go towards Jordan.

I think you forgot something. Oh. I love it. I like it. I love it. What? It's kind of boring. What's your weirdest turn on?

My weird turn on? Do you have one? Weirdest. Weirdest. Not your weird. What's your weird? Yeah, what's your weird turn on? Because we know you have one.

Two things. Well. Yeah. Go for it. See. Weirdly feet now. I actually don't mind feet. I'm not like obsessed with feet, but I like feet.

And then there's just something when like Jordan doesn't wear deodorant. I know what you mean. A man's smell. 100%. If you're in love with that man, their smell is like yes. Yes. Agreed. Fairmons.

Paramons. Yeah. What's the first thing you thought about the, This morning. Coffee. Always. Always. You need coffee.

Is it not? I get so much joy and I talk about this. Setting my coffee pot at night so I just press a button. Yes. Joy's. I have this brewie machine where when you roll over and take your phone off airplane mode, you can brew your coffee. What? So I load the pod, close it, set my cup down, it connects to my phone.

And when I, because I sleep with my phone, I take my phone off airplane mode, undo our security system and then hit my coffee and by the time I get downstairs, my coffee is ready to go for me. You are next level. It was the best thing ever. That is hot. Yes. That is my weird turn. I get so, yes. I get up before Jordan, like an hour typically on average before him. And that is my hour of me time. Yeah. Coffee. So I have my morning coffee. Send my emails, catch up on work. Yeah. You know, do what I need to do to start my day. Hey, enjoy it because it ain't going last. I know. I know that. Yeah. Why do you sleep on an airplane mode? Is it like a signal thing? It's not a signal thing.

I just to be completely not even like, because I think oftentimes, like you don't even realize it if you see your phone light up, it's like a signifier. Yeah. So I always just turn my phone on airplane mode so no notifications come through. Great. I do that sometimes. Yeah. You do? I do.

That could probably help with your sleeping. Yeah. That's why I do it. Yeah. That. Was that you or me? What's the scariest animal you could take in a fight? Ooh.

Wait. Caspiriest animal I could take in a fight. Yeah. I've seen videos of them and I know that they're ferocious, but I would love to go up against a kangaroo. Because you know like kangaroo can actually box and fight. Oh, that would be actually fun. Yeah. Not like a jacked one.

I just want like a mid-sized one. Some of them are so those pick. They have pets. And biceps. Fully. And I'm like, do they have a wiki feet? I don't know.

They probably do. They have a good pouch. They have a good pouch. They give a good pouch. Yes. It's giving pouch. It's giving pouch. When was the last time you apologized and for what?

Oh. Jordan and I only fight in the car. It's a problem. Like depending on who's driving? I only let him drive now when we're together because like it's just you learn. So the last time I probably apologized was to him after a car fight. That makes sense. Yeah.

I feel like that's common. Yeah. What's the dorkiest thing about you? I love playing video games. It's how I shut my brain off. Which ones? What is it? Xbox.

It's smite. It's a gods game. Okay. It's a god's game. It's a nerdy. Like it's, um, you play like Thor and loki and yeah. Oh, it's like real dorky. It's a real nerdy, dorky.

Like headset on in the game. Oh, you play other people online and you guys are all going at it. Thor is fucking taken down. Lokey and yeah. Yeah. What's the other one? Hercules is in it. Hercules is in it.

Odin is in. I only know from the descendants. I don't know if it's a Disney movie. Yeah. I don't know. And they have gods. Okay. Yep. That's a good one. That's a good one. That's a dorky one. That is a dorky one. What's the best sound in the world? Ooh.

The whole world. I would say the beeping on my coffee machine to notify that. You are my fucking spirit, soul, and everything good in this world. I know exactly the chime of my morning coffee. I'm like, that is definitely like the sound of joy. Seriously. That is a good answer. That or like a tea kettle whistle.

Anything that's going to contribute to your caffeinated intake. Yes. Yes. What's the last thing you Googled? Probably a wordal hint for today. Because sometimes. I don't cheat. Sorry.

I don't want to say cheap. There are sites that don't give you the answer, but they tell you like think in this direction. Got it. I only do that if I only do that if I. I get to guess five because I have a streak and I don't want to lose my street. I get it. No, it's important. So I need the help. Yeah. If you had to live in a TV show you grew up on for one year, what would it be? It would either be friends or boy meets world. I had a crush on Topanga too. Yeah. A lot of people did Topanga too. Topanga is a big winner. Topanga is a big one. She's a big

winner. Yeah. She had a lot of. I think I totally wanted to be her growing up. I wanted her hair. I wanted her hair. Yeah. And she had a really good eyes. They don't make TV like they used to. They don't. They really, no.

All these. All these content's great, but all these streaming and bachelor shows. I know. What's the funniest moment you've shared with a stranger? Ooh. Ooh. I can tell you a fun moment that ties back to Daddyhood. We went through all of our processes to stay, remain a,

anonymous with our egg donor or just like protect her identity. So she had never met us, but my doctor's office shares a building with California fertility partners. And I was like out of it. And I was like, and I accidentally parked in the fertility side of things when I had a doctor's appointment. And I went to get on the elevator and our egg donor was on the elevator. How did you know? You told her? No. Because I obviously like we get to see pictures of her and see videos of her, but she doesn't know who we are. And she was going in for. one of her egg retrieval appointments. And I didn't say anything.

I remained confidential, but I just, it was, I called Jordan right after. I was like, it was meant to be. Like, I just ran into her, like, no makeup, like in, fresh out of the shower. Like, it was so cool. And, like, she had a great vibe. She was very polite. Aw. Yeah.

And the coolest thing is that baby's in there. Well, we can't say. No. That's an egg donor. So she was getting her retrieval. At that point, we hadn't even made our embryos. Wait, but any of this, she would. not keep in that you saw your egg donor?

No, you can keep that in. Okay. Stage 7 announced. So that's, that's a common, though. But that's also like, you can leave all this in because like that's a common, um, misconception is like, egg donor is different from the surrogate. Totally. So we, so we retrieve the eggs, then we make our embryos and then we, with a surrogate,

we put the new embryo in. And then you, yeah, you pick a surrogate. Yep. Yeah. It's pretty crazy to think that we've had our eggs in us since we were born. All of the eggs you'll ever have. You were born with, which was in crock of shit. Croc of shit.

It's so cool. They can keep producing. We have just given what we got. We've also held them our whole, like since we came in, we had a little bit of them. And meanwhile, I'm frying mine over here. Yeah. He's boiling those fuckers. Well, we're just dropping them like that.

You guys have your, yeah, you have your egg reserves. Okay, that's true. Yeah. What's your favorite junk food? I love Reese's pieces. They are good. And Reese's peanut butter cups. Those are sort of my guilty pleasure.

And popcorn with a lot of butter and salt. You like going in the movies, sounds like. Love me too. Do you ever put the Reese's Teases in the popcorn? No. I have to separate. I have to separate my salty and sweet. Same.

Yeah. Is there a mantra you live by? Separate your salties from sweet. Separate your salties from sweet. That one. I, The sort of the mantra that I've been living with the last three years was I just remind myself to not compare traumas. So like traumas aren't meant to be compared.

So I think oftentimes, especially out here, like you find yourself in a position to compare always. And traumas aren't something like my coming out experience will never, I will never compare that to anybody else's coming out experience. And any type of traumatic event should not be compared. So that's, I don't know if that's like a mantra, but. I love that. I've never heard that. Me either. Yeah.

I thought you were to say, quit hating your balls. That too. Stop wearing underwear. Don't wear underwear. Don't wear underwear. Go commando. That is the tattoo. Yeah.

That's beautiful. Yeah, I've never heard that. I've never heard someone see that before. No. I think it was just, I just, I don't know when it came up. I think I was somebody was saying something. I'm criticizing me when I came out. And I was like, why are people comparing their trauma to my trauma?

I was like, it's so different. Yes. Yes. Trauma flexing. Yeah. Like, don't trauma flex me. Like mine. There's a lot of people like, you know, compare.

And I was like, I'm not devaluing your traumatic experience. It was hard in a different way for me. Like, yeah. Yeah. So that's, I think, where it came from. And also, we never know what someone's trauma is. I've said this to a lot of clients that I work with when they'll be like, I know this sounds so trivial.

And I'm like, there's nothing trivial. Like, your experience is your experience. Just because you're upset. You didn't get the car you wanted. Totally. Doesn't mean that there's not something underneath that that's really hurting you or some story attached to it compared to someone. We don't compare. Yeah.

Right. And there's nothing that's trivial or beneath. It's like. For sure. Right. Yeah. No trauma flexing. No trauma flexing.

That's a better way. That's a better way. Stop flexing. Yeah. Stop flexing your trauma. All right. Well, Daddyhood, it's out. Every.

Everywhere you listen to podcasts and on YouTube. Oh, yeah. You're on YouTube. Yeah. You can see your cute little thing. Yeah, the month. You can see all of the guests come on. That's so awesome.

Yeah, we're so excited. Love what you're doing. Thank you. You're just so, so rad. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming here. Thanks for having me on. Thank you so much.

How do you feel about Bruce Springsteen, Rob? I don't have strong feelings in one direction or the other. He's a little beyond my generation. You're calling us old? Young people love the boss. Sure. But that's like when we were young, if someone's like, do you like Led Zeppelin? Not the same.

We wouldn't be like, it's above me each. We'd be like, yeah, they're amazing. Just because someone's older, like we like everyone. I'm not saying that's the only reason. I just, I think generationally is. Okay. Who did you grow up with your parents listening to? My dad listened to a lot of Motown.

Really? Same with Jeff Stash. And jazz. Oh. Interesting. What about you? Like yacht rock. Yacht rock.

Yeah. So good. The other night we were at dinner. Like with the kids after tennis, like the moms, we all get dinner. And like they were playing just yacht rock. And I go, I go, we always do. Okay. Forget.

Not in love anymore. And then every time I'm. You know? Every time I see your smile. Leah does it the best. And then it came on. And I was like, you guys. And I got so excited.

But all night long, we were just like, feeling it. I had to go to one of those at the Hollywood Bowl. Wait, that sounds amazing. You had to. You got to. I got to go to. It was like Christopher Cross.

Yeah, great, groovy. And Kenny Rogers. Did you know any of the songs? I mean, I know. like just culturally some of the songs, but... Did you rock out? Nope. It was for Rosamount's birthday.

He got like a big group of people. Oh, got it. That's funny. For tickets for that. I love it. My household was Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, The Cure, Neil Young, like all that kind of vibe. The Cure. Yeah, we threw that, I threw that in there.

Your parents were listening to The Cure? Oh, yeah. My dad. Oh, yeah. See, your dad's younger. My dad's a music dude. Yeah. Like concerts.

My first concert was the B-52s that he took me to. You know, he was just like, he's always gone. He took me to Springsteen many times. Mm-hmm. He was very, very much rock concert music, dude. Yeah. I was exposed to really good music as a kid. Yeah.

I'm actually into it. My parents' wedding song was forever young. Oh. Yeah. They're divorced That was good luck Our wedding song was my parents' song What?

You know even though we ain't got money I knew that I was there I'm so in love with you honey Yeah What was your wedding song? We had a cat power song Which one? Sea of love

Oh yeah I love her cover of that That was the other You don't even know. I mean, we picked our own music for like walking down too. We had a couple like Andrew Bird songs. I think you've told us this before. Yeah.

As you're saying it sounds familiar. We've only been talking. So stop talking. So stop talking. So I picked a Zoe de Chanel cover for my walk, my flower girl walk. What was it? Briar? It was Briar. Yeah, God only knows.

It was her cover of it? Yeah. That's cute. Oh, you told her that when we talked to her. I did. I remember that. But I will say, Breyer was a flower girl.

She was just a little baby. She was so little. She was so little. I don't even know if she was two even. I don't know. She was really little. How old was Elliot at the wedding? He wasn't two.

He was like a year. He's a year younger than Breyer. So Breyer was two. Yeah. She might have been two. So I can't. I know those pictures. Oh.

And Jeff and his hot dog. I will say what I walked down to was really amazing. Yeah. Tom Petty. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Here comes my girl. You did.

You did good. I did good with the music. You know who did even better? Who? Leah and I was our song to you. Oh yeah, that wasn't music. They wrapped. We should play that.

Oh, my God. I need that. I don't even know if I have it. You don't have it? I mean, I'm sure I have it somewhere. Leah and I that morning with my brother wrote a rap, and that was our, like, speech. You guys performed it? They performed a rap instead of giving, they were supposed to give up.

Come up and give a speech. Instead, we wrote a rap song and that was our speech to Olivia. I mean, come on. It was great. It was great. It was great. It was definitely us. It was definitely us.

Yeah. Yeah. But I will say this. I thought about this after we talked to Bobby. Because remember when he was saying that the girls, like he was dating girls and they don't know who certain people are. Yeah. I do feel like our generation. because there was no earphones, there was no iPhones, there was no iPads, there was no...

They've had headphones for a while. I mean like ear... Earbugs? Yeah. Like, we had to listen to what our parents listened to. Oh, I didn't know where you were going with this and I was so confused. I'm saying like on the drives, like we listened to what our parents... So we were exposed to so much music because we didn't...

I mean, maybe the best music. No, because we were. But listen to like straight oldies and like we were exposed to all different. Do you remember K-R-F 101 when it was all just what they call bubblegum oldies? The best. But it was the best. And, you know, every word to every song. This is what I mean.

I meant more it depends on your parents. Like my mom was playing like Jesus in the Tuckina Culler Dreamcoat. That's amazing. That's fire. Jesus Christ. Super dark. Yeah. I mean, I love show tunes.

So I would be great in your household. A lot of church music. But that's, you know. So it wasn't like you were listening to like... That's why you don't celebrate Easter. There was no joy in your life. No, but kids, kids those days, it's like we watched all the movies. Like, we didn't just pick whatever we wanted whenever we wanted it.

Right. So now, like, my kids scream at me in the backseat what they want all the time because they know it's like... And then, all he wants is, Mama said, knock me out. He's moved on from that. But I was just trying to pick one of his phases. Yeah, that was one. What are you trying to say that because there's so much selection, they're not getting... They're not being exposed to...

Correct. So many things. They're not being exposed to discomfort. They're not being exposed to variety because they can just choose what they want. If you let them, I don't let, like, Calvin's not listening to whatever, like, weird fart songs he wants to listen to. I know. You expose him to music. But your kid is six?

Seven. Seven. But when he gets to be like, 11, he's going to be like, I want to put on my earphones or what you're not going to be like, you have to listen to this. No. No. But I mean, they had headphones back then and you could go listen to like. Nobody got, you didn't wear headphones in the car with your parents? I don't know.

How much of your childhood was spent in the back of a car listening in their music? The whole thing. The whole child did. You guys. No seatbelt. No seatbelt. No seatbelt, just music. I remember having, like, a Walkman.

Yeah. I remember, you know what album I listened to on repeat? I don't even know if you know this album. Do you remember Shy, S-H-A-I? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the very first time I saw your brown ass. Okay, it's like R&B group 90s. Your looks at, hello, and I said, it's all I listened to to.

I love that. I remember walking in the neighborhood with my Walkman and just listening to that album over and over and over. I did that with Bobby Brown. I was obsessed with Tenderoni. So was Rob. Do you even know what that is? Mm-mm.

He doesn't even know it. I mean, maybe if I heard it. You don't know Tender Rony? Maybe if I heard it. Wow. Yeah, it's interesting, right? Mm-hmm. What makes you feel older?

Like the music that people don't know. Mm-hmm. Or like your wrinkles. Or like the toys or the movies. or the movies? You know, like, is there one thing that transports you and people just don't know

and you're like, oh my God, like, it's both. It's everything. So, you know who Caitlin is. She used to work for us. She didn't know anything. Like nothing. We'd be like Lenny Kravitz.

She'd be like, how old is she? 26. Oh, okay. But at the time she was like 22. That sounds more like her issue. No, she just was like. like not exposed to it. She didn't know who.

The only person she knew who they were was Rachel. Really? She knew who you were and that was it. Excited. She got. I'd be like, Bob Marley, she'd be like... What? Bob Marley? She didn't know so many.

That was played a lot in our household. Bob Marley. A ton. There's a great kid's show called... Beat Bugs? Yes. This is the Beatles. The Beat Bugs. Yeah. Which is all Beatles songs.

Yeah, Calvin loved that. Yeah, so two or three years old, Ryer would watch it all the time when she was three and learned all the Beatles songs. I have these videos of her at three years old being like, When I'm 64. I love that, though. Yeah.

Are there any shows that Shepard watches that you hate or all of them? What's the one now? Five Nights at Freddy's? Yeah. Those are like videos. He can't watch the movie. The movie's too scary. Yeah.

Vincent loves Miss Rachel right now. Oh, she's the latest rage. Yeah, but that's, or like, has been a rage for a while. He calls her mama, though, and Natalie. Natalie does not like that. That's hilarious. That is amazing. He'll be like, Mama, Mama.

When he wants to watch it, and she'll be like, Miss Rachel, say it right if you want to watch it. That's really funny. I wish Shepard would watch that. That's good for their learning. Yeah. Shepard doesn't like things that are good for his learning. Shepard likes very, very violent. Yeah.

Dark, violent things. He does. And do you just don't think that you should not have him watch that? Or what's your stance on that? I don't know what's wrong with me. Like, I don't know why I don't think it's bad. I'm like, it's not real. You know what I mean?

It's not like he's watching Dahmer. It's like, it's animatronics. Does he know it's not real? He said, I mean, he's really into it. Oh, I know. It's his first thing he said. I know. Like on FaceTime, he'll just, that's what he's going to talk about.

We don't even really like Calvin because you all have nightmares and then he'll wake us up. And we're like, all right, no more Scooby-Doo. There's no nightmares, right? Oh, my God. Scooby-Doo. It's so mild. It is. But it's scary.

He doesn't have nightmares. He doesn't get scared. Well, I told you, Calvin stopped. His nightmare stopped when he made that mask. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He drew that face. Yeah.

I need to get it together. I think, so we've been talking about eliminating screens. Forever? Like, for good? Pretty much. Wait, what do you mean? So they don't get there? iPads on the weekdays.

Yeah. They only get them on the weekends. Oh, okay. That's not eliminating them then. No, that's not what it already is. That's what it is. No, that's what it is now. So they go to whatever, they get home, homework, all of that, and they get to watch a show, like after dinner and before bed.

And then on the weekends, they get their iPad. Shepard has now started calling Saturday's iPad days. He wakes up. He's like, is it iPad Day? And I'm like, that's not okay. And we try to crowd in, like, things to fill their days so that they only have a limited time on it. But it's fucking up. Whoops.

I don't. It's fucking up their heads. Because it's like they won't want to be where we're at because they'll want to get back for their iPod. Well, it's an addiction. They say iPads are very addictive. And does addiction run in your family? No. Nope.

Never touched a single soul. Don't know about it. So wait. So you're thinking about no iPads ever? So no screens. So I talked to Nicole. Nicole doesn't do any TV. Hold on.

Yeah. Till when? They watch family movies, which is we're all going to pick a movie. We're all going to watch it. We're sports. She texted me this morning that her and Zev are watching the OC. Okay, and the OC.

I've picked up Calvin over there and TV was on too. Okay, well, she's trying. Okay. Just stop to pull holes in there. So she sent me all these things to bring places. She was like, get these things, like, do these things with them. Like, here's the thing. When you have kids that are, like, Shepard's neurodivergent.

Like, he, and who knows if Elliot's going to have things because he has the addiction genes running through his blood? Like, we can't, it's not going well with the screens. It's really not. No, I know. And we barely, like, we literally, like, weekdays, it's no. And then, but he'll think about it and do it all, like, all days, just trying to get home for that thing. Elliot? Yeah.

Calvin has had that. And there was, like, mornings, like, when it's time to go to school and he has to turn the TV off and he would, like, freak out. And we had to, like, tell him, like, if you're going to act like this, we can't give you TV anymore. And then just was, like, no TV in the mornings until he could regulate his emotions around it. better. But he's typical. That's the thing. Is it there's no, like Shepard all day yesterday, I took him to soccer for his first soccer practice.

It was horrible. Oh, what happened? Horrible. He was laying in the middle of the fields. He was like, I just, he wants Bonnie the Bear. And I'm like, it's the Five Nights of Freddy things. They didn't, they're not playing that. They're playing soccer. He would not participate. And he kept being like,

I want to go home, Bonnie the Bear. Like, that's all he wants to do. So he doesn't he can't like he's it's a it's a loop that he's stuck in so I think I have to be a little like stricter strict for a minute just like eliminating and then reintroducing or something I think they should get to watch a show in the morning on the weekends and like yeah family movie night family movie night and that's it yeah no it's good I had to you know I think I've talked about this before but briar I would put let her watch a little TV in the morning

when we woke up before school. Yeah. And I would notice, you know, when you turn it off and everything's harder or whatever. But for me, as a single mom, like, if she's watching TV, I can do her lunch and the breakfast and this and that, you know. But I've eliminated that for the past, like, year and a half, I'd say. She hasn't had TV before school. And there are mornings. She'll still try.

But it's not every morning. And some mornings are hard. Yeah. But, and I'm like, you know. I mean, I do every morning alone, too, with two of them. make the lunches and the breakfast. I let them watch TV every single morning before school. Yeah, but you, I get it.

Totally. No, I'm saying I shouldn't. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's hard because it's an easy solution. It's an easy solution. I'm stressed. I have to do all this shit and I'm going to put the TV on because it'll distract him for a little bit and you need a break. I will say like Breyer has always gotten her iPad on the plane, right?

But she's not as into like all the game. Like she'll get into it and there's certain games. but that's just kind of how it's been. And I'm not like super hardcore strict, whatever. It's just kind of what we got used to. She flies two, three times a week. She flies all the time. No, but it's just like a thing, you know?

But she doesn't crave it in the same way, but she does TV. TV is very much. Like at night, you know, there were like five nights in a row where she didn't get to watch something last week. And she's keeping track. She's like, mom, it's been five nights where I haven't been able to watch something. I'm like, but you haven't been able to because think about what we were doing. Like it was all fun things or friend things or whatever.

I'm like, so that's more important. Like, we're having fun and that takes up the time and that's okay. And then we come home and go to sleep, you know. Which I think is the best. Yesterday was the first day from start to finish. There wasn't an ounce of TV. Really? From morning to bedtime?

Mm-hmm. Well. Calvin will just wake up by himself in the morning and go sit in the living room and watch TV. I also, it's confusing to me because I also think kids need that and need breaks. Like just like, well, and it's like 40 minutes of him. Like I'm taking Vincent to go get coffee when he's doing that. Yeah, I think it's good, you know. I just think for us, it's like, it's just like a glass of wine for some people is good.

For us, it doesn't work. Right. I think that screens for us. Well, yeah, you have different circumstances. Yeah, it's intense. But my, it's, I have to do this thing now where I'm like, all right, I'm going to give you three seconds where I'm nice mommy. And then after three seconds, you're going to get me and mommy. Do you want mean mommy?

Because they, I cannot control my children. They are hellions. And I'll have to be like, once. And then they like, rip off their shirts and like, bring it on. They're insane. They're literally like. What do they say? Are they afraid of mean mommy?

This morning I did it, Shepard. I was like, if you don't get up and we're going to go brush your teeth. I kept, I'll give them a certain. found warnings and then when it's like enough is enough I'm like I'm going to count three and then I'm going to be mean mommy and so I was like one two three and then I like swooped him up he's like you're mean I'm like just like I told you I would you know but like he's not like they don't there's nothing I can do that makes them listen listen or scared of me which sucks like I'm like what else do to get a kid to like

be scared of you. Yeah. It's a little chaotic over there. It's beyond. It's like... I know. And I know the people are like, you wonder why your kid is acting up,

stop giving them sugar. We also need to stop giving them sugar. At all? At all. As you drink your sweetened macha. Maybe like one treat. on a weekend. They're just going to trade

things that they're addicted to though, too. That's how Calvin is. Like it was when he couldn't have TV, he was obsessed with that, and now it's desserts and when you can have it, when the next time he gets dessert, he always wants to trade days.

What holidays are? He asked me almost every single morning on the way to school, what holiday is next. Well, he doesn't like, hope it's not Easter. Yeah, just please, geez. Like, there's Christmas,

there's things. Thanksgiving and there's Fourth of July. That's it. Oh, boy. Hardcore. I will say Breyer does get dessert after dinner probably every night. I know. So do my kid. And I give her treats in her lunch. Yeah. Not talking candy, but she'll get a cookie.

Like a granola bar or... Granola bar? That's a lot of sugar. Really? Oh, my God. Not like... Look at when Jeff was like, he's like, we need to get serious. He's like, you're not insulin. What is it?

Your glycemic rate, whatever. He's like, it spikes to a certain number. This is all fucking, I'm saying it all wrong. But basically, he was saying one bowl of white rice spikes your glycemic level higher than a bowl of ice cream. What? Yes. And I was like, wait, what? He's like, you don't understand what you're doing to your children when you feed them in this food.

You're spiking their insulin. you're spiking their glycemic rate and they're crashing and then they're wanting more. This is like a fucking cycle and so it's all the carbs granola bars like bread

like all of that stuff spikes their insulin. So you're just like fucking them up. So I'm like you're telling me I should just be feeding them fruit. What is the solution? Fruit, vegetables and protein.

I did tell Natalie that the other day. Fruit, vegetables, and protein. She's like, I just spent a lot of money at the grocery store, and it's all for these kids. And I was like, well, let's get them vegetables and fruit. That's all they can eat. Yeah, so Jeff now wants to do no screens and no processed food. That's a lot of work.

No plastic. A lot of work. Yeah. Look, we can only do our best. To the mountains, too. Farm you. own food. Well, he does want to move some.

Yeah, he would love that. It's a lot of work, you guys. You're like, I'm not doing it. No, I do what I can't. Like, there's no TV in the mornings. Outside of that, the kid's eating cookies. Yeah, she has cookies for breakfast. No.

Lunch is full of cooking. He tells me I shouldn't even be feeding them cereal at all. And that's the extreme. It's the same as eating a bowl of ice cream. cereal? Yes. What cereal? Are you giving them like fruit loops?

Honeynut Cheerios. Okay. Breyer has like, well maybe this is the same thing. Like Rice Krispies with strawberries in it. Yeah. She really likes that. It's bad? It's an anti-nutrient.

So what it's doing is taking the place of where nutrients should go. So anytime we're eating those like empty calorie carbs, we're taking up the space that should be going towards nutrients. Okay. Yay. You want to answer a question? My pregnant wife told me that seeking to put our child up for adoption is the only solution to feeling unsupported. How can I proceed?

Put your child up for adoption. My wife and I... I don't understand. So like she's not feeling supported. Wait, guys. We're about to hear the whole question, which will maybe give us some details. If you have questions after, that'll be the time for them. Okay.

my wife and I tried getting pregnant for almost three years as long as we've been married and finally succeeded in February this year. She's about eight weeks along now, and she has had many of the harshest symptoms and intense discomfort to the point of frequent exhaustion and rarely the ability to stand for a long or be out of the house much. She was searching for a job when we conceived and we agreed she should stay home while dealing with the harsh symptoms rather than attempt to work. currently work 40 hours while attending online school for an associate's degree and try to donate plasma to supplement income. I've done my best to bring her or get her anything she needs, take her to doctor's appointments, give massages, support her physically. I'm also with her for all of my time outside of working, donating and doing homework.

She let me know I need to support her by handling the household responsibilities that she's not able to do, such as vacuuming the house and cleaning her room, cleaning her bathroom, wiping down the kitchen. I already handled most of the responsibilities of our Husky beforehand. I admit I often struggled to keep up with that part prior to the pregnancy, such as keeping up with dishes and folding or laundry after washing on a regular schedule. And I understand the added stress of them not being fully completed regularly. I will improve on my handling of them, but recognize I still don't always keep up with it all.

she recently let me know that my that me failing to follow through on all of the chores and not completing them fully has led her to feel that I am not showing her enough support and if I'm not giving her my all then how can she say that I would do that for our baby she let me know that my lack of support throughout her suffering has made her believe giving the baby up for adoption is the best for them as we would not give our child the best life if I fail to support her and her struggles as a result. This is very heavy, loaded. I don't know. It's a lot. Throughout our conversation, I let her know that I'm sorry for not making her feel

as supported as she deserved, and I'm willing to do all I can to help her feel that she was given. How old are they? 26 and 25. I'm willing to do all I can to help her feel that way, given that she feels so extremely,

and I hadn't properly understood and adjusted accordingly. I also told her I don't think that threatening to give up our baby was the appropriate response to me half-assing certain chores. She said that it was appropriate given how she received no support, and it was a threat because she would be talking to the doctor about our options. She eventually agreed to give it up until the 25-week mark to judge my improvement on the matter. After the conversation, I'm left feeling somewhat unappreciative for what I've done to support her so far. but mostly conflicted that she feels the best choice for her situation is to threaten adoption.

The advice on the situation is extremely appreciated. I mean, she sounds a little extreme. Yeah. Well, I think there's your side, there's my side, and then there's the truth. Right? Say more. Say less. I think that's his version.

I think if we got it. her version it would probably look a little bit different. Because if that is the truth, like if his side is factual, then what I would say is she's probably dealing with some

really intense hormones. Yeah, that's where I was thinking. And that I would absolutely seek a counselor of some sort because I don't think the amount of chores that the person does is going to actually

equate and transfer into her feelings. Right. There's some communication things and her probably feeling anxious that they're about to have a baby and if they can handle it and she's dealing with exhaustion and all of these pregnancy symptoms. I don't know when this was written. She was like eight weeks. Maybe we should hear from them again in her second trimester. Should we want to call them?

Yes. Well, yeah, I think it's probably intense hormones is what I think it is. But also she was having horrible symptoms he was saying. So, like, she's going through it. She's going through it. And then she's getting frustrated when the laundry is not folded. It sounds like he's doing a lot. I know.

That's what it sounds like. But she's at home just like stealing of like, he's not doing this. You're not doing that? He's not doing that. Dude, I remember when I was about eight weeks pregnant and I was working. This was when I was pregnant with Elliot. And I remember going to work. And I was working for an amazing woman.

Like, I loved her so much. and someone came to the house to clean the house and I was so fucking freaked out about cleaning products that I went home to Jeff and cried hysterically and was like, I can't work anymore. Like, I can't do this. And he was like, you're not even like showing. Like what is happening here?

But I remember feeling that feeling that feeling. feeling, yeah. Like unsupported, terrified, like everything was out to get me. Even the cleaning ladies, cleaning products. I remember feeling like there was no amount of rationalization that could have made me see that, like, my reaction was not proportionate to what was going on. Yeah, well, and I think at the end of the day, it's probably not how she feels. And it's how she's lashing out and dealing with.

her irritability and discomfort and hormones and all of those things and that maybe he needs to try some different methods to make her feel more comfortable. I remember you worked until what month? 37 weeks? Yeah, 37 weeks. What? I stopped at eight. At eight weeks.

I was like, I can't do this. She's like, I don't even know if you're pregnant. Like, I've always wanted a baby. I can't work. Every time your period's late, you're like quitting your job. Yeah. You know, it was so extreme. And then I remember, like, Rachel sending pictures of her swollen feet at 37 weeks being like, yeah, I didn't make it past week eight.

Is that a birthmark? This is. Tell us about it. When I was little, my mom's friend said your birthmark looks like the food that your mom ate the most when you were in the tummy. Which was what? I don't know. I think she was just like a regatonic pasta. Maybe it's not reminded me of chicken.

Do you have a birthmark? Do you have a birth mark? Somewhere. But then now that I think about it, I think she was just, you know, mom's like, say funny things. Yeah. Because her daughters looked like a piece of pizza. Wait, that's just crying. You start crying.

You're like, but now, I realize she was just saying that to me. That the world is a lie. Did you know that those marks on your face are not angel kisses? What? Okay. Thanks for playing everybody. You got to pay to play. It's time to play.

Yeah. Rob's never allowed to bring again. You know what's really sad? Two seconds. What's really sad? I told you this. Is it when, so because of Family Feud, four Family Feud, they sent a car to pick us up, right?

I get in the car. The driver doesn't see me. He's like looking out the window. I get in the car and he's like, oh my God. I am so sorry. I didn't open the door. I didn't see you there and like starts like freaking out. I was like, it's fine.

I was like, I could tell you were looking out the window. But I'm totally capable of opening a door. Opening a door. And he went, he went, wow. He said, you know what, we're a dying breed. I said, what do you mean? I picked up Rachel Bilsen earlier and she wouldn't. That bitch stood in there.

Now, I understand standing, like, if you've got a bunch of stuff and you need help, right? People are standing and making him get out and open the door. He said, I was like, tell me about it. And he's like, there's not many values left. He's like, there's not many people that value what people do. And he's like, it's really surprising people's attitudes that the fact that you even would suggest that you could open your own door is shocking to me. What kind of people are out there? Guys.

A-ho. Stop being dicks, right? Well, it's not even funny a little bit. She's zero dick, 30 I'm zero dick 30 Zero dick She'd open his door

I would No she would Yeah she would I actually would You would open your driver's door Were you? She's not a day I open my own door

Every single time I didn't think you did it Like even if they're hopping out to go I'm like out the door Thank you so much Yeah Yeah no I'm Imagine sitting and waiting?

Yeah. Well, he was like, people are not appreciative at all. I've seen that often. Really? When people are being dropped off. Really? They wait? Yeah, they wait in there until the door's up in.

Okay. Be nice. Be nice. Open a door for someone today. Yes. Please, please. Please and thank you. Good night.

Good luck. Goodbye. That was a hate gum podcast.