Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Gigi Goode on RuPaul’s Drag Race, Hormone Treatment, and Gender Transition

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Gigi Goode [RuPaul’s Drag Race] talks with Rachel and Olivia about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, transitioning during covid, and female facialization surgery. They also discuss hormone treatment (and if it’s problematic for teenagers), bullying, and Gigi’s drag origin story.Broad Ideas is supported by Spiidergriip. Go to SpiiderGriip.com and use discount code IDEAS at checkout to receive 30% off and free shipping.Broad Ideas is supported by Blissy. Get better sleep now with Blissy and use code RACHEL to get an additional 30% off at blissy.com/RACHEL.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to broad ideas.

Hi. Hey. Hey. Hey. Y'all, how's everyone? So super good. So super good. So super good too.

Rob's so super good too. Are you wearing a thermal or a sweatshirt? Or is it a T-shirt? Therm shirt. It's a sweatshirt. Okay. Gigi good, y'all. I'm really into y'all today for some reason.

Gigi good. It's matching your like Nashville attire. Nashville attire. Nashville chic. Okay. Gigi good. She was on Rupal's drag race and she was the runner up in season 12. She's a new reality show.

Avalon TV. She joins us today. In person. Yeah, in person. She joins us. Why does that sound so shocking. That sounds really weird. Sounds like you were so, like, she joins us from outer space today.

Live from set of Avalon TV. Yeah. No. We, she's about to come out in. Come on in, y'all. Come on in, Gigi. We should do that every time. Every intro, like, wave on in.

Sometimes when the world feels insane inside of Rachel's little brain. All these thoughts are swirling. Round and round inside To join us on this journey As we take a little ride We'll talk about dogs and kids and things We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings We'll talk about boys that a need

Because people die Hi So happy to have you here You are absolutely stunning Thank you I'm so happy to be here This is so exciting Oh, thanks. Thanks.

Thank you. Getting into the mode here. Yeah. Do you do your own makeup? I do. It's incredible. Thank you. I mean, it's a real skill.

Yes. I mean, I would say this is, you know, this, I was like, there's a camera involved. My every day is definitely more so like just SPF and mascara. Oh, really? Yeah. Usually that's the tea. But, you know, if I'm on camera, if I'm meeting somebody new to do that, then I usually do it. Yes.

I'm feeling very buffy lately. Oh, Buffy? And also always. Wait, but like, are you talking to Sarah Michelle? Yeah. Geller Buffy? Okay, because, like, I grew up now. We said that you were born in a year.

She graduated high school. So you're obviously a lot younger than us. But Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the original movie. Have you ever seen it? I have. Okay, cool. Because that, to me... I have.

And you love to love it, but it's not... It's Sarah Michelle. It's Sarah Michelle. I get that. She's literally why I went blonde. Really? Oh, that's amazing. Yes.

Oh, my God. So here's something. The first thing, I think it was the first thing I ever did. Was it the first thing? It was like a glorified background person on Buffy, on Sarah Michelle's. Buffy. Which episode? I think there was like a fantasy with one of the characters and it was literally insinuating

a threesome. Oh, fun. I believe that's what it was. I'm going to have to double check that. It's so fun. If you could find out the season and episode, I will watch that immediately. Oh, my God. I was probably 19 or 20.

I'll figure that out. But yeah, for me, Buffy was the movie. But that's okay. We appreciate the show. Interesting. In Sarah Michelle. I would take it, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah. Did they do a remake of it? Of Buffy? Yeah. I mean, technically Sarah Michelle was the remake. She was, yeah, she was a remake. But not from her show.

I don't think they've done a remake. They did have charmed. Oh, yes. That's, I think, what you're confusing. Were you into Charmed? Love. Right? Anything like mystical and magical.

It's my favorite. Yes. We're really good friends. I don't know who he was on Charmed, though, do you? Drew? Fuller? Drew Fuller. Do you know who that is? Yeah, of course.

Is he on charm? He was on Charmed? The police officer. Wait. Hold on. You're going to pull him up. It's escaping me. It's escaping.

I think he's somebody's son. He's beautiful. He's so good looking. He's very good looking. Oh, he was someone's son. Yeah. Okay, yes. He was, yes.

Leo and Piper's son. Yes. That sounds right. Is that who he wanted? I never saw. I know. I've never been a names girl. I've always been a faces girl.

It's only faces that do it for me. Yes. Yeah. Of course. That's the one. Chris. Yeah, so he's a good friend. But all those shows, like, you know, I feel like, were they both C-D-U?

I don't know. But anyway, just that vibe. Even if they weren't, they were very C-W. Very C-W. Yeah, so we got a whole vibe. But we want to know your whole story because it's so, you know, fascinating to me and the whole RuPaul drag rate, like everything. We want to know it all.

Oh, my goodness. So, like, tell us your story. From Burr. From coming out. Yeah. Stormy December 9. No, yeah, I was born and raised in Evanston, Illinois, which is kind of Chicago adjacent. And then when I was seven, we moved to Woodstock, Illinois, which you've ever seen the movie Groundhog Day.

Oh, yeah. That was filmed in Woodstock. Oh, my gosh. So that's like what our town is known for. Groundhog Day is the biggest holiday of the year. It's ridiculous. No way. Like full mascot.

Wild. That's so funny. And yeah, and I went through high school and had a great high school experience, lovely family. My mom's my best friend. Aw. She actually made a lot of the costumes that I wore on RuPaul's Drag Race. She's an incredible seamstress. Oh, my gosh.

Amazing. Was that her job? Was she a seamstress growing up or just a hobby? I mean, her job technically is interior designer, which she had done a lot more before her children came along. But, yeah, she has her own interior design business. And she just, like, made her Halloween costumes growing up. And then, you know, I got into theater.

And that's, I think, when she really started getting the, Gyrus Ternan and she made all the stuff for every production I was in. And she actually started making clothes for me in drag when I was like 16. Really? It's incredible. I started to drag very young because I had a very accepting and open experience, which I know is not the norm. And I'm very lucky to have had that. But that, you know, that led me to go to college and pursue theater further, but more like hair makeup, backstage type theater. And I hated it. Oh, you did.

Yes. Well, I originally went to college for art education. I really wanted to be a high school art teacher. Okay. Oh, my God. And at my school, they do things differently, where they have a student teach your second semester freshman year, which, thank God, because they put me in a classroom.

It was the worst experience of my entire life. I went to school in Decatur, Illinois. Oh, yeah. I was like a beauty boy wearing makeup. Like that didn't fly there. So changed majors a bunch of times. I decided to drop out of college my sophomore year. And I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I know it involves hair and makeup.

And I know L.A. is probably, I'd never visited L.A. before. But I knew that that was probably where I needed to be. Yeah. Right. And, yeah, got to L.A. I did that for a while. the hair and makeup on set and on music videos. Did you?

I did. And I hated that too. You're like, come to think of it. I hate hair and makeup. That's the thing is I love hair and makeup. Right. I only love doing it on myself. Oh, interesting.

I get that. Yes. And, you know, I'd been doing drag since I was like 15 since, yeah, 15. And I've always loved it. Never thought it would be a career of any kind. I just, you know, it would always be with me. And then, you know, after quitting like five different jobs in L.A. within my first eight months, I had been going out and working as a go-go dancer and drag. Amazing.

And so, you know, I'd be surrounded by all these, like, muscle gays, like in underwear. And I'd just be dressed as like a clown with a dunce cap. You know, dancing to whoever is playing. And then auditions came out for a Rupal's drag race. Ah. And I had never auditioned seriously before. But I was like, you know, I'm just going to do it because I love the show. And I just think it would be fun to be on.

And I know that's kind of the golden ticket. You know, you get, I was kind of lost and I was like, I would be happy doing drag forever and always. That's like the perfect job. So I got on Rupol's Drag Race. And it was one of the most amazing experiences I've ever. ever had. Wow. That's incredible.

Can we go back a little bit? Yeah. Sorry. No, no, no. No, no. No, we wanted the whole thing. Absolutely. But so much comes up for me in the questions of like when you were young and what that

was like for you because, you know, having children, it's so, you know, it's so tender. Like what kids wants are and what their desires are and like how to nurture them properly. all that fun stuff, right? Yeah. But it sounds to me like you grew up in such an inclusive environment. And I'm just curious, like, when did it start for you? When were you like, I want to, you know. Explore.

Yeah. I don't see. I have my memory, first of all, my short term memory is awful. Like, mind of the gold. Same. And I can't remember anything. This is so sad, but like prior to the age of eight or nine, like, I really can't remember much.

But, you know, my mom, best friend, tells me everything. And we talk about it a lot. And I know that when I was like three or four was when my parents really started noticing that I had, I just didn't have any interest in the boy stuff, like at all. I've two older brothers. And I wanted nothing to do with anything that they were doing. Right. And I would just gravitate towards anything that had hair and anything that, anything that I, you know, I'd be making. napkin gowns for my mom's old dolls and stuff. And I don't think it was ever really seen by my

parents as like a concern. But it was something that they took me to see a psychologist about when I was little who diagnosed me with gender identity disorder, which is no longer a thing. Oh, wow. But at the time, there was such little information about that. And right, you know, I think at that age, my parents just kind of decided to let me do whatever I wanted to do. And I think my dad was a little more reluctant, but he just was kind of like, you know, I'll all close my eyes. You'd do whatever you got to do. And my mom was just, I mean, she bought me all the dolls. And she used to like bribe me to audition for summer theater with American girl dolls. Oh my gosh. Like, you know, she would let me do her hair for.

church on Sundays and I don't know she was just such a church on Sundays hold on yeah I know I know of course we're like okay flag that you flag that yeah yeah yeah I was a kid we went to church and it wasn't like a serious thing but mostly just because my mom sang in the choir and so okay sweet I was I was going to listen to my mom singing in the car yeah yeah that was and like I wasn't paying attention I was just drawing in my little notepad yeah I still can't pay attention to anything but yeah and yeah and And so she was just a really big supporter without even really trying to be. It just was easy for her, I think. And that really led me to discovering myself at a very early age.

I knew, I mean, I've known exactly who I was since before I could talk, I think. Wow. There's never really been, you know, up until like middle school times when the bullying started happening, I think that's maybe when my parents were a little bit more. concerned about the way I was dressing and doing this. And of course, my brothers would give me shit in middle school and be like, do you have to wear that? Oh.

So you were already... My friends are talking about you. Were you already dressing? So when did you start dressing in school? Um, you know, I didn't, I, so I didn't transition until the pandemic. Right. Oh. Yeah. Um, I think I was kind of, you know, I was just naturally drawn to more feminine fit clothing. Like, I was like, I was like, I need.

the skinniest genes. Your body. I mean, I know. It would have been a waste of me. I mean, your body's insane. But yeah. Well, that was, I mean, my body was my biggest insecurity.

Oh, wow. Growing, my whole upbringing, I just was like, I felt like I looked malnourished and I felt like skin and bones. And, you know, at the time, I didn't really, I knew who I was, but I did not know, I didn't know that transgender was a thing. I didn't know there was, I didn't know, drag was a thing, you know, at this point in high school, I, you know, I just didn't, I didn't know. So in my mind, I was a boy who was just way too skinny and scrawny and like awkward and lanky,

but like very the class clown, you know, I was always in really good spirits. But I think, you know, it all comes with media. And thanks to the media, I started to see other people who were like boys. wearing makeup. And that kind of led to me discovering drag, which led to me discovering, like, I'm learning what the word non-binary meant and, you know, feeling weird about putting that kind of label on it, but knowing that that's exactly how I was feeling at the time because I hadn't heard about trans people before. And something really struck in me the first time I ever heard about a transgender person, which was Amanda Lepore, who is still, I think, one of the most visually

stunning creatures on this planet. And she's been so unapologetically herself for so long. And that really, it was something that, like, I kind of filed away in the back of my mind. It was always there. But it still wasn't at the forefront. So I went through college. And honestly, the first couple years of living in L.A. just kind of. of, you know, a little boyish. My hair was shaved on the sides. It was, you know, I was just like a beauty boy. It was like one of those beauty boys, you know? Yeah. And that was fine. And I didn't have a problem with that. But then, you know, the pandemic really, really lended itself to a lot of self-discovery out there for everybody. And, you know, when you have to sit with yourself for that long

and really get to know yourself a lot more than you did before, you learn some things. And I just realized, you know, like, I just don't. Like, I want to, I want to be a girl every day. Like, I want to, this is just, I am. You know, I just, I am a girl every day. So I'm going to, that's when I decided to grow my hair out. And, you know, the pandemic was so sheltered.

And I didn't, this was right after Rupal's Drag Race had aired as well. Oh, wow. So. That's a lot at once. It's a lot. But. It's a lot. I kind of credit the lockdown for a lot of my sanity, actually, because if you think about it, these girls will go through the, they'll go through the ringer on the show, first of all.

And then the day that it airs, they are on the road. And they are like every single night, another club, another club, you know. Right. And they don't get to stop and, like, process. And honestly, I think a lot of times evolve. And, you know, as it was kind of like, you know, it was kind of like, you know, the incline, the roller coaster went up and then it just kind of gets stuck at the top. And I didn't have, I didn't interact with anybody, you know, any of my fans. I was at home

completely. We did on Zoom. I don't know. I just didn't get to meet anybody. I didn't get to perform on a stage for like two years after that. And, yeah, I just, I discovered who I was. And within those two years, I did a lot to aid that. And I started taking hormones. And I which from pills to injections. And I got full facial feminization surgery and didn't tell anybody. Wait, what does that mean? So facial feminization surgery is different for everybody who gets it. Okay.

It's essentially just depending on what you want and what you desire. It's just changing features of your face that are more masculine and, you know, feminizing them. So for me, it was my browbone. I had a very prominent brow bone. So I got that hacked off. Oh, my gosh. Gosh. She's like, it's gone.

I mean, there's a lot more than just that that goes into it. But it was, it made the biggest, I was like shocked. It made the biggest difference and something that was so subtle, but like automatically made me feel like I looked like I had gone through puberty as a woman instead of as a man. And, you know, on top of that, hormones are, let me tell you about the medical mysteries. Please, too. because it is baffling. I've like,

it's, I've never experienced something that is so, like, in the moment, it changes everything about you. And you can see your face changing every single day and you can see your body.

Oh my God, you see your body changing every day. And my, it felt like there was a door in my mind that opened up. There was like another room back there. And it was like, is this how women think?

You know? No, it's, It just is crazy. I feel so much smarter. Yeah. Exactly. But yeah, I don't know.

I owe a lot to RuPaul's drag race. And honestly, to the pandemic, which sometimes I feel really guilty and terrible for saying. But without that, I think I probably would not have had this discovery, at least not quite as soon. But yeah. But you got to kind of do it on your own terms behind closed doors, so to speak, and just fully go through it all. And I can't imagine being in public going through all, taking all those hormones because, like, hormones are a bitch, man. Yeah. Like, especially the self-inflicted one.

Oh, my God. So you had to inject yourself? I mean, it's, you know, it's an emotional roller coaster. I imagine there's nothing that quite compares to actual natural hormones that are being produced. But I don't know. I don't know. It's a different thing because you're replacing your hormones entirely. Right.

Because you also take testosterone blockers. So there's no testosterone. being placed. And then you get all the female hormones. So you're essentially just going through puberty. So it is what I imagine going through puberty as a little girl. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But without the pimples. Without the pimples. That's nice. And the periods. I mean, that sounds great. And what are your thoughts? I'm very curious because this is a conversation and obviously it's a touchy one. So if you don't want to talk about it, no worries. But what are your thoughts with the children taking hormones or transitioning?

It's not, people just think it's so dangerous. And it's really not because it's not like these doctors are strapping these kids down and giving them full facelift and cheek implants. And hormones are very safe. It's a delicate thing. So if a doctor is aiding you through that, it's going to be done the right way. What I do know is children know who they are. And you know that as well as parents, I'm sure.

Like children, their personalities start to show like that. And, you know, if they're lucky, they get to grow up in a place where they can explore that. And if they're not, which is the case of a lot of people that I know, they kind of have to fight to figure that out on their own. And that ultimately makes it worse for them in the future. It makes it hard, not worse. It makes it harder for them in the future. And it's a much more arduous journey.

And I just think like it's harmless. Like there's nothing. Like let your child explore these things. The other thing is children, you can't give a child gender affirming surgery until they're of. And they will have gone through at least most of high school by the time you can even explore that. Right. And even then, that's really risky. Right.

So it's usually waiting until 18. I don't, I've rarely heard of cases that happened before then. Yeah. Well, I think that what's going on is in the news, it's so polarized, right? And there's the two different camps. And it's so hard to know, like, let's say you watch the two different stations. I don't say what they are, but we all know what they are. You see it being like, this is happening to your children at school without you knowing.

And then you see the other camp that's like, we're doing this to help the children. And it's so hard because I think that everybody's fed so much misinformation. That's why I'm just curious, like your experience having gone through that. Hold your phone and never drop it again. With spider grip, the phone grip that won't slip. Looking for that perfect gift to buy this holiday season, well, look no further. It is time to grip the freedom. Spider grip rotates 360 degrees.

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Use code ideas at checkout and get 30% off and free shipping. Happy holidays from Spider-Grip. Do you want children? You know, I never really wanted children ever. I always was like, I'm going to be like an old starlet who's, you know, got her big powder puffs and it's just living for life. Which I still think I'm going to be, but, you know, I have a boyfriend now and I've kind of, not that we're thinking about having children or anything, but it's come up in my mind. And I think I'd be a really great parent. And I think the idea of raising a child into a person that is, you know, the best that they can be is so crazy. Like that's so crazy and special. And I know I would do it right. That's the thing is I would do it. exactly the way that my mom raised me. And I don't know. I think letting your child be who they are

and grow up the way they want to grow up and naturally do is suicide prevention. Right. That's what that is. Right. Right. Because the reason that these kids are ending their own lives and doing harmful things is because they haven't been given space to explore what they want to be. So all that they think about themselves is that it's wrong and that they are wrong for being this way. You can't change. You really, you can't. You can't just change yourself. You can send someone to a conversion therapy camp, which you can't actually don't. I was going to say, but it's not, you know, it's like, you can't just change somebody like that. Right. You can't. So it's not even worth it to try. Right. Just let them guide you. Yeah, let them guide you. Well, you had such a supportive, you know,

your mom being so supportive, I think, was probably, obviously, a blessing. Yeah. And I know they're, like you said, a ton of kids out there who don't have that. Yeah. Do you think that, you know, now it, I don't know if it's just because it's talked about more, but it does seem like more and more kids taking the hormones and the conversion things. Yeah. It's not, it's definitely, I can tell you right now, it's not that it's happening more.

It's just that now there's more information about it. Yeah. And there were just as many kids, you know, in generations past that felt the same way, but did not have the words and the language to express it or the freedom to express it. Yeah. And now that there's so many of these personalities online that are living authentically, it's giving these kids permission and a window into what could be. And you know what?

Sometimes kids experiment with these things. And sure, maybe they find different routes along the way. And this one's not right. So they go this way. And that one isn't quite right. And so, but that's the whole, that's what growing up is you have to be able to try these things in order to know what works best for you. And I still think we're lacking a lot of terminology and information on this. And I think, you know, in the future, it should just be an innate thing, you know, that it shouldn't even be talked about.

Right. Just like, do you go ahead. Yeah. It just is. Just go play. Leave me alone. Right. And what about your brothers?

Like how are they with this? They're so amazing. I love them. They're my biggest fans. They still live in Wisconsin together. And one of them is a drummer, really, really talented musician. The other one is a designer, industrial designer, and makes, you know, anything. He did works with wood.

They're very creative. And they're just, I don't know, they're great. I think in high school and middle school, my oldest brother never really cared. But my middle brother sometimes would just get a, I think he really was just worried about me. And it just sometimes came across as, you know, like, what are people going to think of you and that? But I think, you know, you got to spend that. He was really just concerned for me. And they, yeah, they're amazing.

They worked my booth at Rupal's DragCon. I mean, I had like eight hour lines every day and they were talking to each and every person and learning people's life stories and crying. And yeah, they've just been amazing. And in high school, you did mention that that's when the bullying started. Or was it? Or middle school. Or middle school. Tell us about that. In middle school, it was hard because, like I said, there was no.

If I had the words to describe who I was, I would have stood on the lunch table and been like, just so you all know, this is who I am. You know, go fuck yourself. Right. But I didn't have that. So I think to other kids, I did look confused because I kind of was. You know, I was very confident, but I was just a little peculiar kid. And so there were, yeah, there were just these awful boys who would do these terrible things to me. I've been like pushed down flights of stairs.

I've been pantsed in gym. Oh, my God. Someone tried to drown me at the pool one time. What? Jeez. Yeah. That's not bullying. That's terrible.

It's terrible. Attacks. But, you know, we're a sixth grade at this point. So it's just boys being boys, you know. And I remember I was always the one who got in trouble, always. Every single time, I was the one that was called down to the principal's office. Mother was called to pick me up. You know, my parents never really disciplined me wrongfully for things that I didn't do.

I think they always chose to believe me. And they always disciplined me in a really. calm manner, which I think is, you know, really helpful for a child who's already really scared. And, you know, I also am not the brightest bulb in the pack. I just never, school has never been my thing. I find it really hard to pay attention. Never passed a math class. Like, it's not for me. And so. That doesn't make a bulb bright. That's true. That is true. But yeah, I don't know. school, middle school was, at the end of middle school is when I learned about, like, I was like, oh, I can do these other girls' hair and they can be my ally and they're the ones that are dating

these boys. Wow. And so I was like, okay, great, I'm going to make friends with all the cheerleaders and I'll do their hair for prom. I'll do their makeup for prom and, you know, I'll be the token gay. And it was great. And I actually made really great friends with a lot of these girls. And I was completely left alone in high school.

It was not a problem at all. And, you know, in high school, it was, nobody even cared. Like, at one year, I was dating the captain of the basketball team. And, you know, it was like, it didn't matter. Right. We have to remember she's a different generation, too. Right. You know, because in our day and age, it was a little bit more backwards.

For sure. You know, like, there was so many people that, silently went through what they were going through. And you heard, like, we had best friends, obviously, that were gay and dating guys, but it wasn't as out there. Yeah. It wasn't acceptable. For sure. Still, right? Like, it was acceptable with us, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, just times have changed where... Wait, you said you dated the captain of the basketball. Is that what you said? Yeah, very briefly, yes. Oh. Yeah. Good for you. He's tall. Right. But you're right. It is.

You know, I think it's a beautiful time where, I mean, look, there's two sides always, but like it is a beautiful time for people feeling free more, like free to be themselves. But what I notice about you is your confidence and your self-assurance, like who you are, like exudes from you. Like you're like, just like you said, you would have stood on the tabletops and been like, this is who I am. And I think that really like is a huge ode to your parents, your mom, everything. feeling so supported in this.

And that's the biggest thing. And I think it's beautiful. It's crazy. I mean, my mom has, you know, as soon as I mentioned her name on the show, she got 40,000 followers on Instagram. You know, she's got her own fandom. And she would call me all the time and be like, I connected with these parents. And I connected with all these people.

And, you know, I met this dad who just said that he was so against what his child was doing. And it just made him sick. to his stomach and then he watched me talk about my mom and, you know, learned a little bit more about it. And he's like, now he's a complete supporter of his child. And, you know, there's so many incredible stories and also heart-wrenching stories that people have shared with my mom just to thank her. And I think it's, I don't know, it's great because, you know, parents don't often get a lot of the credit, especially, you know, when their kids, turn out right. And I don't think that she really understood the gravity of how amazing she is as a

parent. And so I think being able to hear that and actually like see the numbers and know the gravity of that was really special for her. Yeah. What about mental health like for you? Because you said one of the ways in which people, you didn't, I'm saying this wrong, but basically the gist of it was that the suicide rates, right, with trans kids or trans in general, go up when they don't have the support that they needed. So was that something that you struggled with even though you had the support? How was your mental health during all of this? I think, I mean, there's a lot that has to do with mental health. And I think a lot of it is genetic. A lot of it is something that is not learned or absorbed. It's something that you're just born with and have to grow and deal

with and I you know I've had my fair share of of that side of things but you know another side of it is trauma and and your environment and your family and people that you surround yourself with and you know I'm I'm so thankful that even though I may have felt you know it never really got to that point for me but I was I was a really happy kid and I was really confident and I think most of all, it was mostly the confusion that was really frustrating. And it was hard to move past that sometimes. But, you know, if I didn't have family that I had, who knows what would have happened. And, you know, I know kids who went through that and didn't make it out on the other side. And it's just awful. And it all, to me, aside from the other side of it, it all really boils down to who

who you're surrounding yourself with. And I think, you know, that's where chosen family is really important. And I think there's so many people that have no idea how important that is and how realistic it is to find and how it can completely save your life, you know, and it's just crucial. You can find a family away from your family. It's a completely different kind of family, whether you have a good relationship with your natural-born family or not, you can find that relationship among others. Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah, we talk about that all the time, like our chosen, like sisters, you know, and they really help lift you up and get you through things, you know. But it seems like you have both. Yeah. I mean, I cut my blessings every day. Yeah. I do. I'm very lucky.

But, yeah, I think they're two completely different types of families. Of course. You know. Yeah. Yes. It's, yeah, I'm very lucky to have both. Yeah. I mean, but even like, and partly, I think it is a survival story of like going through what you did in middle school and but still being who you are and like you just like you really are just so shiny and bright.

Thank you. No, really though, you know? And to have endured that. And I know that that could really have an effect on something. But you just, it seems like you're just like, well, you know, that happened. and you kept going and look where you are now and you kept pursuing and with all this support. I've never really taken things too seriously.

That's another big lesson for other people. And I know it's so much easier said than done. But yeah, don't take it. So don't take life so seriously. I'm a big fan of that. Yeah. You know. I also think that there's something to it

when you speak about like being at that age and being confused and not being frustrated for you. I think so many. so many more people, if they just took that, could identify it with it. Because I think we all grow up and there's this kind of narrative that, like, you need to know who you are. Like, who are you? And yes, I think we're all born who we are, but I think that there is an unraveling. Right? And I think there's a lot of confusion growing up, especially during puberty or high school or 20s. I mean, you're still in them, but 20s were really.

And whether it's gender, whether it's career, whether it's romance, whatever it is, I feel like we all as human beings can relate to the fact that it can be really confusing. Yeah. Of like that, who am I? And I think maybe we don't know until we're done. No. You're never going to reach your final form ever. Right.

I think evolution and growth is so important. and I wish that it was explored more. I just, you know, I remember someone on my season, I think it was Heidi and closet on my season. One time she said, if you're not growing, you're dead. That's right. That's right. Yeah, it's true. It's true.

Absolutely. You got to water yourself. Yeah, but when people say that, like, you need to know who you are. I'm like, do you? Because isn't it forever changing? It's a learned thing. Yeah, and don't we just need to know how we feel? feel today as opposed to this like grand idea that you have to have this you know declaration of your

who am I and I do love that for you're like yeah different people can be fluid with it it can change right it's ever changing I mean you talk about stepping stones like right I think I've come out like five or six different times in my life it's like it just is and I don't even know that I believe I'm in my final stage of coming out. Like, who knows what's next. Right. But I know how I feel right now and I know what has influenced that and what has been completely innate in that.

Mm-hmm. And I'm comfortable in it. I'm just comfortable and I'm happy. That's it. Comfortable. But it also speaks to really being in the present and that's a whole other thing. Yeah. Like you're fully in the present.

I hate a coulda shoulda woulda. Right. Right. Yeah. And that's the biggest lesson. And I teach it to my kid all the time too, you know, because it's. And I'm still trying. I can't do it.

I'm always like somewhere else in my head. Yeah. I mean, I can't even imagine. Everyone's trying. Everyone's trying. Yeah. And it's not, there's not a parenting handbook. No.

There's no handbook for anything. There's no handbook for anything. There's things that can help. But like, you know, a lot of it is figuring it out and figuring it on your own. Your relationship with your kid is so specific and so special. And I don't know. To not nurture that. It's just crazy.

I know. I know. What were we were talking about. It's devastating. We don't understand how people. Well, there was someone that told me they didn't want children, and I said that is the best decision you could have ever made as a mom. Right.

Like, that's a mom. Someone that's like, I know myself well enough to know that I don't have what it takes to give a child. I'm like, you're mothering the world that way. Because, you know, that's a solid choice. There's still kids being born. Like, we're good. Yeah. Like, we got this.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. You know, and that is, that's a strong. And again, just speaks to like really knowing, well, who you are in that moment anyway. But like being confident with who you are and knowing what you can or not that you can't, but maybe it's not for you. And that's okay too.

But I think your message is so cool, you know, because you speak so openly about everything in your experience and your life. And I just think it's really admirable and beautiful that you can do that. You know, and I think it'll touch a lot of kids or people who do feel confused or conflicted and any straight man that looks at you. Broad Ideas is supported by Blissie. So I've been sleeping on this Blissy pillowcase,

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the shit out of us. Though there is for as much negativity that is happening within the community and towards the community, there's a lot of of great things that are happening for the community. I think in very recent years, a lot of straight men have realized and learned more about who trans women are and how they identify and how it's really no different than, you know, you can still be straight and date a trans woman. And I don't know. I think it's really opening up.

I think it really opened up. Do you have you dated straight men? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I have. Yeah. They're terrible. Awful.

Yeah. In my experience. That's amazing. And we agree. Yeah. A good straight man is really hard to come by. They are out there. They are.

They exist. I don't believe all men are terrible. Yeah. All the ones that I've interacted have not been great. But, you know, my boyfriend now is, I guess he considers himself pansexual. Okay. I think he's kind of dated every type of person under the sun. Yeah.

And yeah, I don't know. It's really, it's a very. very affirming to be with somebody who just doesn't even think about it. Yeah, right. Right. It's so nice. But that's also this generation too. Like we went on a trip not that long ago and someone that's very dear to me. She's what Dakota's like 21. Yeah. And we were talking about these different issues and she got really angry. And she said, I just don't even know why these are conversations. Why do they even matter to bring up? And I was like, oh my God, that's the difference between us and their generation is that they're far past this.

Yeah. They're like, guys, really? It's boring. It's old. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think it does take educating the older folk because there's so elderly. What?

The seniors. No, the seniors said it's older. Can you take three? It's not. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, just like. Every generation, I think obviously the numbers differ, but just like every generation, there's

great, great people and there's terrible, terrible people. Yeah. And I think it's not impossible to get someone on this end of the spectrum to, like, creep their way towards being a better person and a more understanding person. And I think, you know, if it takes being outnumbered to happen, then for you to realize that, then so be it. because I think in a lot of cases, we're beyond a conversation. Right.

There's so many people that are not, you can't convince that you just can't. There's really no point in even, like, arguing because they're not going to hear what you're saying. Right. The hard part about that, though, is that when you say that, I'm like, okay, well, to each his own, right? Like, you're able to feel how you want. But the hard part about that is the bullying and the voting. and the things that come with that. So it is at a hard time.

People are having a hard time with accepting people's beliefs right now. Yeah. Because it affects people that they love and care about. And I know we've been through that because, you know, I'm not going to get political, but we're very open-minded. And if someone else wants to believe other things,

like in my mind, I'm like, that's okay. Like, you're allowed to believe that. But then I'm like, oh, but is it? Because then you go and you vote or you pass that on. And then I start to question, oh, is that not okay? You know? It's tough, right? It is tough.

But, you know, like, you really can't convince some of these people about these things. And I think, like you said, it is okay for people to have differing opinions. That's just how humanity is. I think a lot of times the opportunity for the other side to learn gets completely shut down when when you know our side completely villainizes immediately instead of being like would you be open to really having a conversation about it. And more often than not, those people are not open to that. And unfortunately, they make up a vast percentage of, you know, the candidates.

But it's, it is, I really do think it's a matter of time to. And just look at what's happened in the last 50 years. I mean, even aside from, from just gender binaries, like, you know, so much has happened in the last 50 years and imagine what's going to happen in the next 50. I just think remaining hopeful and positive is really important, but also being able to being able to express your views in a way that is not an attack or threatening or, you know, like think about what you're going to say, you know, these people, they're opening their ears to you. Yeah.

Right. How are we going to build the bridge and get across? Right. So you feel open-minded like in hearing people that might not be fully supportive of, you know, your world and the journey and everything. Yeah, but I can recognize. which ones are lost causes and are just never going to be on our side. And those are definitely the people that we have to vote against.

I mean, we're not saying that everyone needs to hold hands and be friends. Like, absolutely not. But I just don't think that could ever happen. But it's, you know, it's like there are little pockets of opportunity here and there to change minds. Yeah. And, you know, we can bring those people over to our side. And that's how our numbers grow. And that's how we gain allies.

And that's how we become more normalized. And it's just like, I don't understand why people can't understand that it's just normal. Like, it's really not hurting anybody, you know? Right. Like, we're just let us live. Right. It's really not hurting anyone. Yeah.

Like, how is that so hard to accept? I think people have, like, maybe something in themselves. That's usually what it is. Oh, okay. It's usually what it is. Right? I mean, I will say there is, I've never personally experienced this, but, um, I have lots of friends and there's lots of stories of very conservative, very powerful men actively seeking out trans women as escorts and as prostitutes.

And, you know, if the walls could talk. If the walls could talk. Then I think the supporters of the conservative party would, their heads would spin. I really think so. Right. And I believe it. You must have some stories. Oh, yes.

Do you care to share? any of them? She's like, do you care to spill I do love some tea every now and then? I think another thing that has to change just aside from acceptance

is, and this goes for all women, is the objectification of it all. That's something that I never had to experience prior to transitioning ever, like growing up living 22 years, never at once having to

be having to go through that. It's like a switch flipped on. Immediately when I started presenting as female, it was like I was just like a piece of me, you know? Yeah. And it was like, it was really alarming how, how fast that happened and how, you know, as soon as there's a label, as soon as you identified what it is, the party that used to find you attractive, all of a sudden just, bye, bye. And the party that never once found you attractive is going, oh, okay. Well, now maybe, you know. And I think a lot of men just think of us as oddities and like, I don't know, like a fun little play thing.

So I've experienced a lot of just really terrible manners and etiquette from men in public spaces at parties, especially in L.A. And, you know, they think they can touch you. They think they can, you know, grab you by the neck and whisper in your ear. They think they can grab your waist and they can do all these things. And thankfully, I never really go anywhere alone. So I always have a pat. I mean, my friend group is like 13 people.

Deep. Yeah. It's deep. And we are always like the Olive Garden reservations are all. And ending red sticks are up below. I love you. So much more for saying Olive Garden. Oh, yeah.

Number one. Okay. Thank you. So, you know, I'm. I'm lucky to have my chosen family to back me up and to be there. And there have been some times where, you know, some men have had to be picked out. Wow. But, yeah, it's wild.

Oh, God. Also, straight men just have the weirdest fetishes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, wait. Can you tell us some fetishes? Yeah, we love a fetish. We'll never name a name. We love a fetish.

God, I don't know if he's going to watch it. But, you know, I think a lot of. straight men with trans women. It's very like mommy son type thing. Very peculiar to me. There are some that I'm not comfortable saying out loud on camera. And, you know, when they come up, I'm always like, what? Like, really?

No. Sorry, no. Like, how they want you to talk to them? How they want you to talk to them? Like, what they want you to do to them. And, like, ugh. They're like, make me chicken noodle soup. that's fine

I like would I love to make you too cute like I love a little made you know sexy made right but is it more like

a dominating thing yeah oh men or it's like a mommy very submissive very submissive towards well not all men

I should say because there's I don't know everybody's different what I've experienced is that a lot of men just want to be

destroyed just obliterated. Just destroyed. It's amazing. I don't know. It's like I it's it's like going through puberty and growing up again. I'm like going through all the stuff.

It's so weird. Everything's new. Everything is new. And I'm like, thank goodness I have found a person who is sane and kind. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing and is not weird. It's not your son.

No, my son. No, absolutely not. Yeah, I was going to say, have you gotten more passionate about women's issues now? Yeah. I've always been passionate about women's issues, I think, because I credit every part of who I am to women raising me, both physically and on TV and film. I've idolized women. I've, you know. Who was your idol growing up?

Was it Sarah Michelle? I love Sarah Michelle. I mean, honestly, this is. So cliche, but Barbie was just... I was going to say you look a little bit like... What is it? Margot Robbie? Really? Yeah, I just saw Barbie.

I was actually thinking that. I was in the eyes. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. No, but I love her. I love the original Barbie as well.

Same. Yeah. She was like, like, incomparable. Nobody could ever. And she taught me a lot about femininity. And I learned, you know, how to braid hair on Barbie. And I learned how to put an ensemble together and design clothes. And, you know, I definitely had a lot of those weird Barbies, the Kate McKinnon.

Yes, for sure. But, yeah, I think Barbie was a really big one. Obviously, my mom is very, I think, she is a very steady frame of mind when it comes to what women deserve. And, you know, it's just like a very, like it's like an animal. actual thing. It was just something that I knew. Right. So definitely her. I don't know. I loved every like leading lady

in whatever cartoon or TV show movie like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. The Wizard of Oz is my number one all-time favorite. It's the perfect film. It's beautifully, visually, beautifully done. The acting is gray. It's

campy. The message is like one of the most important messages. I think in a movie of all time. Yeah. You know, you don't have to look any further than your own backyard to find home. Yeah. To find who you are. So, yeah, I don't know.

Women have always been on the forefront. I think I learned, I've learned a lot more about fighting women's rights now. And now being on the inside of it, I've understood how much worse it is than I thought it was. Yeah. So I think that's a really big goal of mine is to really get involved. and have a voice on that side of things. And, you know, it's, yeah, I don't know. It's gotten, like I said, in the past 50 years, has gotten a lot better,

but it still has a long way to go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it does. I mean, especially recent years, it just seems like there's been a regression, you know. So it's like we're kind of starting over again in some areas. It's a pendulum. Yep, right. Angelum swings.

Yep. But isn't that just. with the older generations. I feel like the youth is more awake than they've ever been. Yeah. I mean, I could be wrong. But it feels that way.

In our experience. Sure. In our experience. But we live in Los Angeles, so that's a bubble. No, my mom, I mean, the high school that I went to, my mom's still doing costumes for them.

Oh, my God. That's amazing. That is amazing. You know, she's got her little costume minions that keep her company. And it's crazy because when I was in high school, there were no, no one had ever.

heard of trans. There was a few gays and, you know, it was like all the theater art kids. And my mom said now, like, our theater department, our theater troupe is outnumbered, like, queer and gender queer kids than the cis identifying ones. And she's like, the entire school has, and this is Illinois. Right. You know, so she's, it's just like everyone is finding, discovering themselves and nobody cares. Right. The ones who get bullied in my school. are the ones who used to do the bullying. That's right. Yeah.

That makes sense. Yeah. I wonder if there is a connection between the creativity. We were talking about this earlier. What? About just being more open. The more creative you are, I feel like, like you said, the theater kids and stuff, you know, make up. It's like queer and open and all of that in theater.

And then a lot of times you find in sports it's a little bit more macho. Yes. But I'm wondering if there is a. correlation between being open creatively to being open, whether it's with your sexuality or gender or any of it. I mean, that kind of outlet is a lifesaver a lot of times. Right. You know, like most of my friends were all art kids or were theater kids or involved in the arts in some way, shape, or form, even if they were involved in sports, which, you know, a lot of them had their parents made them do. And a lot of them love to do. And a lot of them love to do.

But yeah, I think, yeah, having an outlet like that and being able to, I just think being queer, there's magic in it. And there's, there's something that is like, it's like a community. It's a community that, you know, nobody can really relate to unless you're inside of it. And, you know, those spaces, those creative spaces are often filled with these people. And so that's where you find connection and often the love for the creativity. Yeah, your tribe. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. When you spoke earlier that when you were young and they took you to a psychiatrist and they diagnosed you. Yeah. Which is so crazy. What did your parents do with that information? I think they just kind of let me live. Honestly, my uncle on my dad's side is gay.

And so I think that he was a really big, he provided a lot of information for my parents on what being gay meant or being queer, you know, whatever. Queer was not even, queer was a derogatory term. Right. Right. So we've taken it back. But yeah, I don't know. I think they just, they've always known to listen to their kids.

My mom told me when I was like 17, she shared with me this story of this time I was like four years old. And I was playing with my little Barbies. there was a wall, like a room divider between me and my mom and my aunt. And they were doing something. I was playing with my dolls. And my mom heard me say something along the lines of, why did God make me a boy? I'm not supposed to be a boy. I'm supposed to be a girl. And she told me this. She's like, I never told you this before, but it was something that I just remembered. And it really stood out to me. And she's like, I thought about it all the time. And so I think, I don't know.

Like, you just know. Yeah. And you just be a good parent. You let them live. They're not going to hurt anybody. Especially if you let them live. Yeah. Well, straight guys may differ.

That's true. Yeah. No, but that's, it's just such a beautiful story and example of your experience. I mean, I owe a lot to where I am today. Yeah. And I think I owe a lot of that to my mom and my family. But I also, I mean, in the past five years, six years, living in L.A. I've learned way more than I could have ever imagined learning in 22 years in

Illinois, you know, and I really owe that to my friends, my chosen family, who go by the House of Avalon. That's- Oh, I love it. They're all from Arkansas. Really? Yes. So they must have some stories with their upbringing or crazy. Yeah. I would imagine. They've been through shit. And they've been through shit. Their relationship goes back like, you know, 15 years almost. And so I'm a very new addition to this friend group, and they've kind of welcomed me with open arms, and they've provided it. It's like class was in session. Like, it felt like a whole new, like pop culture was obviously a part of my life as a kid, but not nearly as much as it is for them and as it was for them. And, you know, I think TV kind of raised all of us in a way.

Yeah. And, you know, in lots of different ways. And we just, we always try to pay homage to that. I love that. Yeah, we've, we've been able to take our love for television and put it back into something that other people can absorb. Amazing. Yeah. That's so cool.

What is it? It's called Avalon TV. It's going to be on Wild Presents Plus. And Wild Presents Plus is the one that, like, World of Wonder produced RuPaul's Drag Race. They created it. And, you know, they're, they're kind of expanding. They have this whole slew of new shows. And we are one of them.

And we've been filming for the show for the past two years. Wow. And it's, there's so much heart that has gone into it. And it is just like all that TV that we grew up loving. And we, you know, like, like I said, raised us, we're kind of exploiting now. Nice. You know, you know, and it's like an homage. Right.

Love that. The show is, it's six episodes for the first season. Who knows about the second season, we'll see. And it's just a culmination of every type of show, every type of show that we have loved. So it's kind of like you're flipping through channels. And, you know, you get a talk show here. You get following me along and me and my girl, Simone, to Paris and Milan for Passion Week. And, you know, I think we've been able to create.

A lot of moments. I have a moment in the show later on in the season that is a very personal life-altering change I'm making. And I was lucky enough to have it filmed and documented. Really? Oh, wow. It's like we watched it back the other night and we were all just crying. Oh, my gosh.

It was so amazing. And I, like, can't believe that I got to. I'm, I just can't wait to watch all of this back when we're all. old and bitter. Yeah. You won't be bitter. No, we will. Just old.

Just old. Just old. Yeah. Yanked. Yeah. But yeah, it's just, it's a special little thing that we've created. It's our little baby that we've created. Do you guys like reenact shows though?

Yeah, a little bit. Oh my God. I would want to see you to like be wished or like, you know what I mean? Yeah, I want to see you recreate. We do little skits here and there, which are. fun. We play characters and you know, we do, did you ever watch Jackass?

Yeah. So we have a version of Jackass. That's amazing. Drag ass. I don't want to give away too much. Okay, don't. Just let us. We'll watch it. It's so special. And it's like every time we're able to watch any of it, we're all like 20 of us in the living room and we're just like, I can't believe this is happening. So, yeah, it's

going to be really, really special. That's so exciting. Well, we can't I can't wait to watch. I can't either. And I just love that you came out here not really knowing. And look at what you've landed. Look what you've done. Oh, my God.

I think it's just, yeah, it's Kismet. It is. Kismet. It is. We're going to ask you two questions. Oh, okay. Okay. Are we doing the usual?

Sure. Okay. If you had to pick one song that plays every time you walk into a room, what is it? Oh. Oh my God. Oh my God. That is so hard. It's going to have to be either Kylie, Minogue, or...

Oh, wow. Yeah. I love Gwen, too. Mm-hmm. She's gris div of mine. Hella good. No doubt. Great.

Okay. Love it. Love no doubt. Love. Yeah. Awesome. I have a name in it. So, you know, it's here.

What's your ultimate sandwich? Ooh. I'm so hungry. I think, you know what? Honestly, there's this place called Gigiata. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. No. Which is also funny.

Oh, yeah. Is it like kind of a chain where it's like the little Italian type of place? I think so. It's like G. There's one in Burbank. And then A-T-T-A, I think. Oh, maybe I'm wrong. Something like that. And they have just the best fucking sandwiches.

I love, I'm a really big pickle girl. Me too. I love pickles. I just did that. Did you see that Chomoi pickle on? TikTok? No. It's crazy. It's like a pickle that's been soaking in like red sugar juice and you've like hollow it out. But

all kinds of candy. It's so nasty, but I did it. I love a pickle. So I usually, it's very like, my sandwiches are very pickle, mustard, vinegar. Yes. A lot of that, oil, pepper, salt. I'm usually, I was a chicken kind of gal, but I've been leaning towards turkey for some reason.

Yeah. I don't know why chicken has been stressing me out a lot lately. It can do that. Yeah. It can do that. It's gross. Yeah. Like, it's suss.

It is when I was, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. You're like, I'm talking about sandwiches. If this pick that up, that's going to be so funny. Starving. Yeah. But chicken, like when I was pregnant, chicken was my enemy. I wouldn't make sense.

So weird. It is weird. Like, if it, if chicken tastes like chicken. It's a texture thing. I won't eat it. It's a texture. Or if it's, like, kind of curly. You know what I mean?

Curly. You know when it gets like, oh. Say that. Okay. We're just going to move past. Yeah, it's gross. It's great. It's gross.

It's great. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I need a crunch. I have to put chips in my sandwich. That's why the bread chew is really important to me. It's so important. You want like a crusty, like toasty.

Oh, yeah. You want a French roll. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm with you. Yeah. This has been, I've just loved this whole conversation.

Me too. And now I'm, can't wait to have lunch. Yeah. You are so stunning. Thank you. Thank you for sharing with us and talking to us. Thank you so much. So excited for your show. Yes. I can't. Yeah. October 9th, Wow Presents Plus. Yeah. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thanks for having. Thank you. Absolutely. Anytime. Come back. I'll be back. Come back. On my way.

Hey. Dirty. That's what I was going to do. We were on the same page that time. We finish each other's sandwiches. What'd you know about that, Rob? What'd you know about the dirty cell? Okay. Okay, guys. When you guys get home at night in the dark,

do you run to your front door from the street if you're parking on the street? Or do you walk casually, not afraid? To drop runs, he darts. I walk. You walk casually. Yeah, casually. Olivia? I walk with a mission, but I'm more afraid.

I'm like afraid of raccoons. Like coyote. Yeah. What? I'm not afraid of like... What do you think a raccoon is going to do to you? Well, I have had some hissing situations. Here we go.

Here it comes. They hiss at you. She saw in the news once. No, if I were you, I'd be very afraid of the coyotes because your neighborhood has the most coyotes I've ever. in my life. I'm not scared of them. Mine has a lot too. There's a pack at the end of our street

that every night is howling and they just casually walk up and coyotes don't care about, especially in the city. Don't care about humans. I'm not scared of them only if my little dog is near. I'm not scared of them.

I'm not really scared of a lot of animals and things. I don't love snakes, but like we went on a Girl Scout field trip and I was holding them and they were on me and all that and I'm fine with it. Just like running into one in nature doesn't it? Yeah. There's this

massage massage parlor in California. Did we talk about this on the podcast already? No, he sent it to me and I told you about it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Continue. You put big snakes and some of the snake massage. How is that a massage? Where there's just like three.

I think it's meant to help you get over your fear of snakes. Huh. Interesting. I used to like snakes when I was a teenager. Would you do it? No. I mean, I don't need to do that.

I'm not to the point where I'm so scared of snakes that I need to be cured. I don't want to run into them in nature, but I'm also fine. Like, I literally had one around my neck on Sunday, and I was fine. And it started. It was neck. Yeah, it was tight. It was like smelling my neck. That was fine.

That was chill. These are, like, giant. They're so huge. Yeah, I get it. I've held those, too. I don't need it like slithering all over me. Are you guys on next door? No.

No. Okay. It's not helpful to be on next door. Here she goes. Are you on next door, Olivia? Of course she is. I am in two cities, okay? Oh.

Oh. But here's what you're going to find interesting. Granite Bay. I stayed on the one in Granite Bay because I like to see the animals. The one in Los Angeles is like car break in, house burglary, armed robbery, package thieves. Like that I don't even like really mess with because I'm like, whatever. But the Granite Bay one is like, what animal is this?

And it's like all these random animals. And I used to go do that. And like I'd wake up in the morning and check my ring camera to see what kind of animals were going through our yard. We had a lot of fox. I've seen them. Yeah. When I was there. Uh-huh.

And deer. and no coyotes really. But there was a bear on the side of the road that was killed. Like, I know. What do you mean? He got killed. He got killed. What do you mean he got killed?

By a car. Yeah, hit by a car. He got hit by a car. He got hit by a car. He's out of the road. Big black bear. Yeah. I mean, he might have had.

He might have had a heart attack. Two bears of heart attack. Or like liver cancer. He got hit by a car. That's sad. I know. No. I feel bad. I feel bad when anything gets killed. We had a lot of road kill there. Yeah. A lot. You were in the woods. It was in the woods, so it was super dark. So you don't see, you don't see anything.

This is Woodland Hills. Did you? No. Did you ever run over anything? No, but I have obviously. In your life. In my life, yeah. Have you? bigger than a squirrel. I don't think so. That's good. Yep. I thought I had a cat once in high school and I was so traumatized. We went back and it wasn't there.

So I don't think I hit it. I probably crawled off somewhere and died. No, I don't think I hit. I thought I hit it, but like it wasn't there. You know what I mean? It was like at night and it was just scary and I was traumatized. It was like in high school. It's scary.

I saw a deer get hit in front of me once. And then it like flung. in front of my car and it like looked I made eye contact with it and I was like on Laurel Canyon. What? Yeah, it was absolutely traumatizing. It's like I watched the life go out of it. It was like looked in my eyes and then died and died. Yeah, it was a huge freaking deer.

I pulled over and we waited and like whoever was there called someone. It was a huge deer on Little Canyon and got killed. That's horrible. It was really bad. Like Tommy Boy. I told you about my good friend like a month ago that was riding his motorcycle. Yes. Up near Lake Tahoe.

It's horrible. His family was in the car behind him because he was just taking the bike home. His wife and two kids. And a deer came out and he hit it and flew like 40 feet off the bike. Bike exploded. And he like broke his arm, a bunch of ribs. scars all over his face was like completely out. Had to be airlifted.

And he I saw him like a month later. He came down to L.A. and he's like a couple scars but he's... But his family watched it all happened. Yeah, family watched. That's so effed up. He has a photo that someone took like

bike's still on fire. He's laying unconscious. You like this part of the story. So there was a firefighter. So there was a firefighter. that what like was behind them when it happened of like firefighter EMT that got out and helped them and they became like friends with this guy and his wife after and um they told them they're like for some reason he just wanted to go to the lake that day we never go to the lake on those days

and then we were there and like normally would have stayed the whole day but for some reason he was like, let's just go home and the timing of all of that, put them there. That gives me the chills. We love that story. Of course. Yeah. It felt like a story you guys would like. I have the chills.

That happened with Jeff. Do you remember that when I was in Granite Bay? I do. I went to this little coffee shop by his work that I'd never been to. Never. Ever. And I was like, I took my computer with me because I wanted to do writing. And I was like, I just want to get out of the house.

I'm going to go to like this cute little coffee shop. I called him. I'm like, if you have like five minutes to come and say hi, I'm across the street at this coffee shop. I sit down and he's late and I'm like, what the heck is going on? He said he was going to stop by. He didn't know if he could. So I was about to pack up and leave and he walks in and he looks like just completely shook. And I'm like, what is going on? He's like, I parked my car and I was walking in to meet you and he was in scrubs. and someone ran out going, doctor, doctor. He walked in, they ran him into the sushi restaurant, and there was a woman in cardiac arrest.

And he revived her. He literally got her to breathe, gave her mouth-to-mouth, whole thing. She ended up living. And he stayed in contact with the family. And they were like, the hospital said, like, if you weren't there that minute, she would have died. That crazy?

That minute. It's fucking crazy. My whole head just got chills. Yeah. Your head only? Yes. My head. It's like we never know the one decision we make that was like, I'm just going to go.

And like if I thought, I know. I know. Always. Always think about that. So does Rob. There's not a second that goes by that I'm not thinking. You're not thinking like, wow. About divine intervention.

But I even take it a step further of not just Jeff. You're in your third hair duo. this. Yes, I am. Not just that. Okay, so yes, that was their experience. She came back to life. This woman lived because he was there at that minute. But I also connected to, oh, shit, I'm supposed to write. If I hadn't had decided to write that day, I wouldn't have been there. And so I was like, is that connected? Yeah. I love when all that shit happens. Right? We live for that shit. We live for that shit. That's my rock. Yeah. I love this story. We do.

But he gets it. I get similar. I mean, I told you guys about my friend that I was on the cruise with me. Cruise. We went on this cruise of Hawaii when I was like 20 with my family.

Yeah. It's all like old people on this cruise. Yeah. And it was to all the different islands. And there was, I ran into this kid that I used to play soccer with that I hadn't talked to.

You have told us this, but yeah. Hadn't talked to him about 10 years probably. Right. So he was the only other, kid my age there so we hung out the whole week on this cruise

and then like a week or two after the cruise ended he died in his sleep that's right I mean it's just so weird and like what like a cruise yeah like the most random but you got that time with him

but what do you I'm curious what do you take from that? Yeah I can see you being like I didn't even like remember this guy and then they brought him into my life and then he just died like I could see you going down going pessimistic yeah I mean no I see that as like a

treasured last moment to get good okay yeah but it did it did it bring you any new gratitudes or did it make you want to hold on to people tighter because I can see losing someone at that age is yeah no I mean it just

he's like no it made me realize like how fragile things are and that it could happen at any point. Yeah. I remember the first like peer or whatever that died when I was, I don't know, 14 or 15. He was my boyfriend in junior high, but this was after. I wasn't with him. This was like when I was in high school. The weirdest part is my best friend from kindergarten. We were best friends from kindergarten until, I don't know, let's say second grade. Then she moved to Big Bear. At the time of his death, he was dating my best friend from kindergarten, who I hadn't spoken to in so long, but she happened to have been dating the same guy that was my boyfriend in seventh grade.

But when I was in ninth grade, he was killed. By what? What? He got his, I mean, his throat slit. What? Yeah. Why? You know, I knew this, but I don't think I knew how.

Yeah. Yeah, it was like a befuffle with, like, gang members or something, you know. And yeah, it was cool. I was like that. He was 15. Speaking of other traumatic stories. This is a field. I hope people, you know, driving home from work, appreciate me.

Well, you know what? They're going to appreciate anyone they can hold on to today, right? Yeah. Less happy of the story. Oh, do you know, right? Less happy than that? I mean, it's. Not any happier.

My friend was in town playing some shows last week, and I had lunch with him. And the night before, they were playing at the Ace Theater at Ace Hotel. And he, like, walked out to walk around to go into the venue because they're staying at the hotel. And there, it's downtown L.A. There's already, like, a line of people for the show. And there was just, like, a man line in the street. And he was like, well, this is L.A. It's probably an unhoused man.

And it wasn't that out of the ordinary. Right. But apparently, like 30 seconds prior, he had just jumped from the top of the building. And everyone in the line... I was not expecting that. Everyone in the line had seen it. I laugh when I get nervous. I'm not laughing at that.

Everyone saw it? People in the line saw it. He was like, if I had walked out 30 seconds later, I would have seen him fall. That breaks me. he was maybe being chased by police or someone is what story came back as. That's so traumatizing too for the people that witnessed that and saw him. How do you, I mean, that's. These are horrible stories that we're telling right now.

We're going to have to light in the mood. This is life. These are horrible stories and we're going to change the mood. Yeah, I don't feel right. He'll answer some questions. I've got some questions. I've got a, I've got a good starting question. What?

I am a 26-year-old female and my husband, 28 male, sent a text to his co-worker saying he would suck on her breasts. Oh. Say that again? Like I would if I had to or I would like to. Wait, say it again. Sorry. What was the question? I'm going to read.

Okay, okay. Sorry. I don't know how this works still. Sorry. There's a catchy headline. And then there's more details that will unfold as I read the question. We're like, wait, what is it? What?

All right. My husband and I have been married for two years. We've been together for five years in total. Recently, we attended a baby shower. There was a professional photographer there, and it took a few days before we got our pictures. Once the pictures were ready, they were sent to his phone. I asked my husband if I could borrow his phone to post the pictures on my Instagram.

While I was on his phone, I intended to click the photo icon, But clicked the phone icon instead, which was right next to it. This opened up his call log, and I saw that back to back he had gotten calls from his coworker, a 26-year-old female. We're going to call her M. Okay. For this. This raised a red flag, so I went to their messages and started scrolling. Majority of the text messages were normal, talking about work and life.

But I saw one message. M was basically venting to him that at work someone had commented on her breastfeeding breasts, calling them saggy and deflated, which made her feel. upset. There was no following message, though, like if his response was deleted it. Oh. I go through his deleted text and I see his response. How do you see deleted texts? I think you can

just look at deleted text. What? I didn't know that. My husband responded, not deflated, just not as firm as before, L.O.L. for obvious reasons. All still suck on them, though. My heart dropped, and my stomach immediately thought he shied on me.

I walked over to him and threw the phone at his face. I yelled at him. You're cheating on me with M. He tried calming me down and explaining himself. He said he didn't mean it. And that's how everyone talks in the office. And it's not constant every day, but dirty jokes are made here and there. And everyone just laughs and walks away. He said he felt comfortable enough joking around with her like that because he knows one, she knows he's not serious. And two, she doesn't want him in that way either. I ask him, if you're not serious, why delete the message in hiding? He responds because after I sent it, I realized it went too far. In the office, we

say stuff like that, but I've never said something direct. Like, I'll suck your breasts before. It was too much I deleted it, so you wouldn't see it and become upset. I mean, I will say he could have deleted the whole thread if it was really shady. Yeah. I don't have any proof that he's ever tried anything with her. All I have is their word, and I'm leaning towards believing them, but it's still driving me crazy. I think it depends.

I don't know. You go ahead. Well, I will say If it was shady He would have deleted the whole text thread He deleted the one text She didn't say anything in response to it See my detain, I'm like, what was the...

I don't think so I mean That was, he took it too far It's an inappropriate, absolutely inappropriate response He deleted it Wait, did he delete it Like so shh, the girl wouldn't see it either? Yeah, he did he delete it?

So his wife wouldn't see it. But I mean, you know, he didn't edit it. He didn't edit it and take it away. Okay. So he just deleted so his wife wouldn't see it, which is suss, but also he didn't delete the whole conversation. If that was the only thing, I'm leaning towards believing him. What about you? I think it depends on the person's personality.

Right. I think there are certain friends that I have that are guys that would make jokes. Like, we have a way of speaking of, yeah, where he would be like, you're such an inappropriate. little slut and I'm like, I love it. Like, it's just jokes. That's how she talked. You have friends that's how you talk to one another?

That's how she talked. They're a friend. I do. But it's like just jokes. Heterosexual male men? Yeah, but it started a long time ago. If Jeff saw that text message, would he care? I don't think he would give a shit because I think he knows that it's just,

he would do that on a group text with his wife. he'd be like, you're such a little slut, and I'd be like, uh, you know. So it's a personality thing. Calling you a little slut's different than I want to suck on your breasts. He didn't say I want to. He said I'd still suck on him. So I'm saying if a friend that I am friends with said that to me, I wouldn't see it as sexual.

I would see it as a joke. Like, okay, yeah, they may be a little saggy, but I'd still suck them. It'd be like, okay, great. However, if Jeff said that to someone, that would not work for me because that's not his personality. So you put yourself in the wife. No, but it's also not his personality. Right.

So it depends on his personality is what you're saying. Huh? It depends on his personality. It depends on their personality. I would still be pissed. It's still inappropriate and you don't joke like that because it's a flirty joke and that's not cool. Yeah, in this scenario though, I don't think it's like,

oh, he's definitely cheating on him with that. I don't either. But it still raises the question maybe. he shouldn't be making jokes like that to women, especially at work. And clearly she's breastfeeding. She's like, you know. Actually, who knows? But even, but like if she's breastfeeding and they're both taken and they've got a kind of comfort zone with each other.

I don't know. If you and I were texting, I would never make a comment about. Because you wouldn't, nor would Jeff. That's what I'm saying. But we have friends. Is there a double standard there where you? are okay with someone saying that to you, but would be mad if Jeff said that's someone else,

or it's just because that's, if you were married to the type of guy that would say that, you'd be fine with it too. Correct. If I was married to the type of guy that that was their personality, I'd be like, he's just being him. Yeah.

I think you've got to know your man. I think you got to know your partner. And if it's their personality and they really are joking, I think you're going to know that. It's a mosquito. Oh, I thought you were watching Steve. I'm like, what is he?

Am I wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong. I think there's certain people where it's, I think it really depends on how it made the woman feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like he owned up to it and apologized and all of that. Yeah. Yeah, it's just whether or not he would have owned up to it

had he not been caught. Right. He wouldn't have. Also, her being like, I accidentally clicked to his phone icon. Not buying that stuff. I don't really buy that. Saw the call and then went into the messages.

It's bullshit. Yeah, you know, look, if you have a feeling about something, you have to look into that too. And obviously she was right. There was something inappropriate. So, something to listen to there, too. I thought the same thing. Yeah.

I was like, that's a great explanation for looking at someone's phone. Right. Because, like, if you go to your home, I mean, the phone's not next to it. That's true. Or different kinds of phones. I'm not trying to shame her for. looking at his phone. Not at all. No, I'm saying she followed her intuition and she wasn't wrong.

But I do think certain people carry more weight. I think if you said that to someone, that would be. That's so out of the norm that'd be like something's up. Well, and who had said to as well. That's what I mean. Right. I think that all of those factors need to be looked at and the relationship between the two and all of that. Like if you said that to Olivia, I would be like, oh, just another day. Just another day. Yeah, that wouldn't even land on us. We'd feel like, oh, yeah, yeah, there he is. For the record, that's how you guys talk to me, not me talk to you.

Okay. We're always like, I would suck your titties. Every day. That's how you talk to everybody. We meet to Rob every time he walks in the door. Yeah. Well, you did make me wear a dress today. Yeah.

Oh, that's not today. Steve. Mosquito, dude. I got to get it. Oh, my. Well, I mean, but that was just like a... Oh, that was just... An Easter egg. No, it's over here.

Get it, Rob. Get it. Get it. Get it. Get it. You guys want another one? Okay, one more. One more and then we got a motor. All right. What do I do? I, 25-year-old male, hate my gift that my 22-year-old female girlfriend got me. My girlfriend, 22 female, of three years, just got me a colimba for my 25th birthday.

I was very disappointed. Buy it. What's a Columba? I don't know. What's a Panini? What's a Panini? What's a pinina? It's an instrument.

Okay. It's an instrument? She likes listening to extremely romantic slow songs, and I don't. In fact, when we were driving and she plays it, I ask her to not play them. We could just talk instead. She knows I don't like the music one bit, but I don't mind her listening to it. I just don't want to listen to it myself. We just recently started long distance, and she had to move cities for education.

I stayed back for work. And while I was opening it, she was on the call. She says that she's always wanted one, but couldn't justify buying it. And if I don't like it, I could give it to her. Then she asked me to learn to play it. So when she comes back for Christmas, I can play it for her. The note she sent me said, it's a good gift.

It's a good gift. It's a good gift buns. That's what she calls me. I'm going to do that to you. Here it is. It's a good gift. She's been in a relationship with me for three years. knows I love reading history.

I do birdwatching while the life photography. Ooh, he's fucking wild. Carve and whittled wood and have to have a sculpt with clay. Told her I love the gift and I was super thoughtful, not heard her feelings or my birthday with an argument, but I really didn't like it. And I don't see myself in it one bit. This is a bigger issue. Yeah.

Yeah. I just got her first vibrator for her birthday when she opened it today. She fucking loved it. It kind of slipped out of my mouth and said, that's how. how you give an awesome gift. Right after she tested it out on the call with me, she picked it up and it had been mad at me about taunting her and not liking her gift. What should I do?

Well, he has to be honest. This is a bigger issue because this is like, you don't know me? The cookie monster. Yeah, you got me crackers. You got me crackers. That's the biggest issue, right? She just wanted it. Yeah.

So really, I'm not, here's some hard-to-hor judgment. That's really selfish and a weird self-centered gift. I've had gifts like that. You have? Yeah. You've given gifts like that. No. You've received.

You got like the pizza oven you got me and you were like, I just love pizza. Oh, Rob needs his pizza. We need to give me your pizza. And we do like pizza. We really do. We do like a lot. I know, you really want to be making a pizza. No, I was given a dog that I didn't pick out and it came and they named it themselves and was like, here you go.

Yeah. I was like, interesting. Yes, you did go through that. Yeah, yeah. That's weird. Totally. Right? Yeah.

But some people aren't good at giving gifts. Like, that's the other. I mean, this one seems a little obvious what's happening. Yeah. She just wanted it and bought it for herself. So. But some people. But it's the same thing when someone's like, I'm going to order us dinner.

Here's a pork chop covered in mushrooms. I don't eat pork chops and they hate mushrooms. Did that happen to you? It is the cookie. It's getting the cookie monster. The crackers. That's a big issue. That's an issue.

Here's the thing, though. It can be trained out of someone. Unless they're a narcissist and they cannot see past themselves. If it's just self-centeredness, you can train someone, teach them what you want and talk to them about that. Well, give them a gift. Yeah. And, like, just pick from this. But also, I think a thoughtful gift, no matter how small, even if it's like a handwritten thing, but like if it's thoughtful and really, like my nachos.

Like your nachos, you know, and it's like my reading. Like my cracker barrel. Yeah. Like that speaks to my heart. I do think that there's types of people, though, that just can't. Or it thoughtful like that. Can't execute a thoughtful gift like that. I think that's true.

And that's totally fine. But then they should be like, give me, let me know what you like, what you want, whatever. Right. Or how are they showing up in other areas? Like Jeff, Jeff isn't a huge gift giver. I don't think you should leave your partner because they're bad at giving gifts.

No, wait. Like you can, as long as they're showing up another way. I love giving gifts better than getting gifts personally. I mean, it depends on who they're from, I guess. I do like gifts from certain people. Like I prefer to give. Like you, Rob. You like giving gifts.

Yeah. Yeah. I like it when I can crack it, but then sometimes it's really hard. Rachel is the hardest person in the world to get gifts for. That is not true. You're hard to get gifts for. I am not hard to get gifts for. I think she's not hard to get gifts for.

No? I'm not. Did you like your gift this year? What'd you get? She doesn't know. Earring is in salt. because they're like really because she really loves cooking. I do.

And it's like a variety of salts. I love cooking gifts. Yeah. Yeah. And dope earrings. I love. Dope earrings. I do.

I love dope earrings. Okay. They're a little heavy. Well, I've noticed you haven't won them. Yeah, well, I was going to ask why. Should we return them? I don't know. Did you try them on?

No, I didn't try them on. You know what earrings are really heavy? They're harder to wear. Then we got to return them. I'll try. return them because they're not cheap. I know. They're fucking dope.

Yeah, I think we should return them. I'll try them again. I want you to try them and see if it's just. I'm a little sensitive to wait. I am too. Yeah. I won't wear them if they're heavy. I love them.

I don't want to give them up. But they are heavy. That didn't even occur to me to try them on. Yeah. Okay. I want to return them. Well, I love them though. Yeah, but if you're not going to wear them, you should have something you'll wear.

I want you to see if you think they're heavy. Okay. I think it really matters if you think they're heavy, though. I know, but I just, it's just my brain. Any decision in my life does not happen without going through a living. I think we should return on. Hold on. We'll assess.

Do you know whose earrings these are? Who's? Jeff's moms who passed away. Oh, you're wearing Maddie's earrings. Yeah, I'm wearing Maddie's earrings. That's so sweet. And they feel right. They don't feel too heavy.

No, they're perfect. Yeah. Oh. That's so sweet. Shepard will just look at Jeff. Like last night we were just sitting on the couch. And he just points to him and he goes, his mama died. Oh my gosh.

I'm like, it's true. And he's like his mama died. And we'll just keep pointing at him and saying it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we ought to be really sweet to him. His mom died. And he'll be like, yeah. But he just will randomly. He does that.

Who does he always talk about whose mom died? Mitch McConnell. Yes. Haven't told you that? Yeah, you have. So good. Oh, my God. Yeah, Nicole was on the phone with him, and she's like, how's Mitch McConnell's mom?

And he's like, she died. Yeah. Oh, my God. She's laughing at Mitch McConnell's mom. I'm sure she died a really long time ago. I guess he is old. Yeah. Well, we don't know that.

No, we looked it up. Oh, you did. Nicole and Kevin looked it up. Oh, they did. Because they were like, I wonder if she's really, yeah. Yeah. She died. A long time. So he's just assuming this old man's mom died.

Yeah. It's just like he looks sad. I think his mom died because that would make me sad. Let's all take a moment for all of the deceased that we have now covered in this post. Yes, about 11 people that have died. What is that happening? Seriously, though. I can't.

I'm sorry. I'm laughing. Oh, my God. But all of them is crazy. We've never in the history of podcasts of this many. It's because the veil is thin. The veil is thin and Steve is not leaving. He's at your house.

Okay. Anyways. We got plenty at my house. It's fine. Any heel, all respect and love to the... He fucking jumped off a building. He fucking got his throat slit.

His mom fucking died. He died in his... He died in his sleep. He died in his sleep. This 22-year-old died. I didn't sleep. Mitch McCoyle's mom's dead. Jeff's mom's dead.

Dead. Jeff's mom's dead. Oh my God. That was bad. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for listening this week.

That's it. Okay. Okay, thanks, guys. Pugh. That was a headgum podcast.