Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Hannah Brown on The Bachelor, Being Drawn to Chaos, and Soulmates

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Hannah Brown [The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, Dancing with the Stars] talks with Rachel and Olivia about moving from beauty pageants to The Bachelor, misconceptions about chemistry and love, and meeting her current partner on a dating app. They also discuss personal insecurities, Jed lying to Hannah on her season of The Bachelorette, and how Jed’s then secret fiancée is now Hannah’s sister-in-law.Broad Ideas is supported by Talkspace. Get $80 off your first month at Talkspace.com/IDEAS.Broad Ideas is supported by Zocdoc. Go to Zocdoc.com/IDEAS and download the Zocdoc app for free, then find and book a top-rated doctor today.Broad Ideas is supported by IQBAR. Get 20% off all IQBAR products. Text IDEAS to 64000.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max or, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas. Hi, guys. Hi.

Hi. Hey. So today we have the lovely Hannah Brown. She's a television personality lifestyle expert. New York Times bestselling author. She was on The Bachelorette, The Bachelor Dancing with the Stars. I have followed her journey. I'm so excited to talk to her today.

I loved her as The Bachelorette. And I just think she is so adorable. and so funny and just herself. And I think that's so awesome. Hannah has her new podcast, Better Tomorrow, which you can find wherever you listen to your podcasts. She likes to discuss a variety of topics, relationships, love, faith, making time for yourself. Better tomorrow. It's out now. Let's welcome Hannah. to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things.

We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that are neat. Because people die. I love the way it sounds in this. You too. I feel so official. I do. When I'm on other people,

maybe sometimes not on my own because I don't know. It's actually good for me because I can be a little bit all over the place. What is it? What's the podcast? So my podcast is Better Tomorrow with Hannah Brown. And I chose to name the name Better Tomorrow because like a lot of people during COVID having a hard time. I was having a lot of like help stuff go on and I was listening to somebody else's podcast. I think it was over actually. It was like a Super Soul Sunday. I still can't remember. I've got to find the actual episode, but this guy was on and he was talking about how he,

He asked himself this question every day. And it's, am I better today than I was yesterday? And the whole goal of that is taking like just a pause. And when you ask yourself that, like there's going to be some days. You're going to say, yeah, like I actually was. And this is what I did today that can make today a yes day. But sometimes there are no days. You're like, no, like I was shit today.

But when you take that moment when you've had that no day, usually it's not going to follow another day where your answer is. No, I wasn't better. And so I was like, okay, I feel like I'm having a lot of no days right now. So I took that message and I just put like a little index card and put it in the mirror that I always walked by and started asking myself that and it led to better tomorrow's. And so that's kind of how I came up with the name. And that's really the goal of any conversation that I have. There's so much noise out there. And there's a lot of competing conversations. And for me, if I can have, you know, an hour of somebody's time, I want it to be impactful

in some way. It's still be fun and silly and goofy, but they feel better than they did before they press play. It's not just they're not like, okay, what did I just listen to? Why am I feeling like sad or icky or like I just wasted my time? Yep. So that is the goal of every conversation is just so people feel a little. bit better after they've listened.

Yeah. That's what we say. We're like, if you come away with one insight and one laugh, we did our job. Yes. That you don't feel like you just wasted an hour of your precious time because your time is precious. And we only have so much and it's like we want to get something out of it. For sure. I really like it. I'm so hard on myself and I think I should just be perfect at everything as soon as I do it. And it's something you have to like learn what your strengths are, what you can work on in front of everyone. Yep. It's a very vulnerable space.

That's been hard. But I've been very open with my listeners about this is something that I always struggle with. And I haven't been like pretending that I'm not trying to get the hang of it. So that's given me a little bit more freedom to just relax into it and figure out what works, what does it. And I've been up front with everyone about it. So it's like if you don't want to be a part of me learning, then this is probably not the podcast for you. Something I've always admired about you from obviously Bachelor Nation where, you know, people got to know you. You've always been so yourself and up front.

And I love that. And I think obviously so many people relate to that and love you because of that. And I just admire it so much because there's so many people out there. They're putting the public eye or whatever. You put on a persona and you've just always been so yourself. Thank you. I haven't always been that way. I think that was what was really unique about my experience is.

The Bachelor being a contestant, there was something that the producers, I guess, just like opened up for me. I think because nobody had ever asked me how I feel about things. No, like I truly, I mean, I've done a lot of therapy on this. I finally was asked about myself, but in an unsafe place, I've learned that now. But for me, it was like this freedom that I had, oh, you actually want to know how I feel. and with that made me actually for the first time, I think, fully be myself when I knew that people are watching. Like my friends knew who I am and my friends, like when I, they've watched the show, so

like, oh, no, like you are exactly who you are. I mean, sometimes questionable decision making, but you are fully yourself. That was not the case in the past. And so that's why sometimes when I start new things, I always feel this struggle because I know that people love the real me, but there is this, uh, I guess pattern in my life of always trying like I'm like oh but I should be this way it never works but I still in my brain have to always fight that so I'm really thankful for the bachelor in that way because it actually gave me the freedom and to see that people actually like truly who I am not

what I think a cookie cutter best version of myself is because then I'm actually just a discount version of myself. Do you think some of that because you grew up in the beauty pageant world, does it root from there? Yeah, I think it roots from there, but I always just like, I had that's like, I think Brne Brown talks about this or Glennon Doyle, like good girl, bad girl, like I just always want to be good. I want to be good at everything. I want to be, nobody can say anything bad about me. That kind of started before, but then of course pageant's probably like accelerated that like stereotype of myself that I thought I needed to fit into. So for sure. And that's when it got all messy. We're talking about my hair color. I finally have got it to where I'm like, oh, like very still natural,

but, you know, just lightly putting some color in it before I was like, somebody told me I should be, if you're going to be blonde on stage, you need to be blonde. I mean, I completely changed myself or whatever, usually some old men who have never done a pageant before told me what to do. So I I've definitely done all that. And I don't even really completely relate to that person. And that was pretty young. So I guess I learned it early at least. Yeah.

But still, it's a, it's a battle and everything. Whenever I start something new or putting myself out there, I have to continue to fight out that part of me that wants to curate something. Everybody feels it. They're like, what are you doing? That's right. You can tell when somebody's being fake or just withholding. Well, it's also something.

One of the things that I like to ask myself is like, what is the impact of that? Right. And so you can deliver a version of yourself that you think people might want to digest well. But what you're really doing is causing zero impact. And like by you sitting here today being like, I'm learning and I'm struggling and I'm, you know, trying to get this thing and it's not perfect, that has an impact. That helps the people listening being like, oh, fuck, thank God. Okay.

It's not just me. It's not just me because there's nothing, not a thing that any of us can do for the first time and nail. Right? Right. Yeah, for sure. I mean, people like, oh, but you've done, you know, you've done interviews before. This is probably easy.

No, it's not the same. Right. It's not the same. I've never, like, helped produce something before. But, yeah, I think it's always refreshing whenever I meet somebody that's done whatever I want to do. I do think I have the willingness to always, like, ask. And I think, like, what are you doing? Because I really like it.

And I'm trying to figure it out. And so maybe one day people will be like, oh, I've watched her, like, in the beginning. And then she's figured out. And there's some people that are going to be asking me. What does she do? How does she learn? And I think it's just being honest about where you're at, where the pain points are or were, and hopefully giving guidance to other people when they are in a place of,

I want to do something, but I'm scared. Yeah. I think it's beautiful. Yeah. And are you doing it on your own? Are you the, are you? It's just me. It's just you.

Because like if I didn't have Olivia, I don't know that I could do it. Of course you could. Well, no, because like I lean on her so much, you know, but I just admire. Like you're, oh, the first podcast by myself. I tried to do it. That was the first thing I ever did. A solo episode, so hard. Oh, my goodness.

All the way by yourself. Oh, like just by myself. And what were you talking about? I was talking about kind of what we just did. I knew if I was going to start this thing, I had to start it honest. And so I was just basically like, yeah, hey, I'm doing this, but I'm super scared. I don't know what I'm doing. So just like, can y'all just hang on and let's get through this?

and it kind of went through how in times in my life, like how you just have to like do something scared. So that's kind of what I talked about. But you can have all that in your head, but then I don't know, there's something that happens when you're like, oh, a bunch of people are going to hear this. Which is weird because on like Instagram stories or bachelor, sometimes that didn't bother me. But this, it's all on me. Right.

Yeah. It's also, isn't it a different level of vulnerability too? Yeah, I feel like it's a new chapter of my life, first of all. And yeah, it's like in your thoughts completely. It would know, like, you have to make the direction of where that goes. It's not, oh, I'm speaking and then somebody else decides what that storyline is. You kind of have to figure that out. What's going to be helpful, useful, entertaining? How can we balance all those things so that a lot of people will enjoy and get something out of it? Right. And I feel like the listeners can feel like if you're really into wanting to have this be a journey together

or if it's just something that you're doing because you can. But no, like, I'm really wanting to connect and that's fun. Yeah. You can tell the difference, I think, from wanting to connect or some people doing it just for career purpose, you know, just to keep. Yeah. But I think that's something you've always done and you've been in the public eye now for I was like maybe on it 2019?

Yeah. Like four or five years? That must be crazy, right? It's crazy. Like just to be thrown into the public eye and everyone witnessing everything you're going through and experiencing. How did you deal with that? Not really well.

I went from Tuscal, like I lived in Tuscalo, Alabama my whole life. I went to college there. And I always wanted something more for my life. But I think there were times where I was settling or looking around me and, like, like, oh, is this it? Like, is this what I'm supposed to be happy with? And some, like, yeah, there are parts of it that were great. But I always, like, kind of wanted something different.

But I never could have expected, like, I didn't even really watch The Bachelor before. So I didn't. No. No way. My friends, like, some of my college roommates, I remember, I can remember watching, like, a few episodes. I'm pretty sure I watched, like, it was like Caitlin and Jojo. So was that Ben's seat? That was been season.

I watched like a few episodes of that season. And then I was in a relationship, I was going to get married. It's like a young little girl. And I also was in pageants. I was Miss Alabama, USA. And that was kind of how I thought I was going to get out. I was like, oh, like I'll do this. And this will help me in some way.

And I'm going to move on with my life at this point because the white picket fence living, you know, on a farm. And Alabama's just probably not working out right now. And do I even want that? Right. I don't even know if I want that. I think I just thought I did for a little bit. And yeah, I get like a random phone call. And I didn't even know who nominated me for like the longest time and ended up being a videographer for me like showing around Alabama. So it all like, I really like Miss Alabama is how everything happened. Oh, that makes sense. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, and I didn't know what I was going to do. do at this point. I'm like, oh my gosh. I really did believe I could do anything, but then I realized

like, what did you do? So I was kind of like in this place where I'm like, why not? I mean, then I started researching, I guess like Ari's season was the last one. So I bought that. And I didn't even know what to be paying attention to. I was just like so broke that I'm like, okay, how many dresses am I going to have for this? Like that's, I found some of my notes from that time, like my journal. And literally all I was writing down, I'm like, what? All I wrote down was how many cocktail dresses I would need. And I get a rose. They give out roses each week. Like I didn't. You didn't know. No, no understanding of it. Wait, were you still in the relationship at this point? No, this is an I had like, I won my Salabama right after like everything. I broke up. Okay. Or they broke up with me, whatever. It was all really weird. So I had like a year of. Got it. So you were. I was ready. I was like ready. Yeah. Yeah. And I. And I, I thought, like, I was in that position or that time. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could be ready to get married because I thought I was.

Right. So I went in so pure. Oh, my gosh. I thought, like, oh, this has opened up to me and this is, this is what God wants for me. I'm supposed to go on the show because I'm not pushing at all. Like, even getting nominated, like, there's so many people that, I guess, I don't know what it's called audition or put themselves, put their application in. So I was like, yeah.

Put their application in. I don't know. They do. I don't know what they do. Yeah. I didn't do it. So, yeah, I just kept going through and they kept asking me to be more things. I was like, I guess it's happening.

And even being a contestant, you don't, not everyone has a trajectory of people caring about their life. And then to become The Bachelorette, never thought that was going to happen. But then it was like, Bachelorette, Dancing with the Stars. I was on three ABC shows in one year. I was like 35 Mondays out of that year. Like, it was crazy. And yeah, that does something to you.

that you can't really quite prepare for. Right. And it was also not just like people know who you are, but your personal life out. Right. For everyone. And I didn't know how to cope with that. I'd never gone to therapy. And I just like shut everybody out.

And so just kind of like was in my own little bubble and just ready for whatever else, distraction came up. So I did not handle it well. It took COVID and a lot of like setbacks to. really get the help I needed. Because I've always, my mental health has been something that I didn't know how much help I needed with. Or I actually did, but just didn't have the support. And so this was a lot on my, on my brain and my emotions and not knowing how to cope with everything. So I'm in a really good place now, but that was a hard time. So when you say you didn't deal with it well, what did that

look like for you? It was a lot of like isolation. I didn't. Like I, after, I mean, I got engaged one time. I always forget about that. Like, I legitimately forget about it. And I wouldn't even come home. Like I didn't.

And I just let a producer, actually, because I didn't have any friends here, find me a place to live here. And I wouldn't go home because I didn't want to talk to my family really about it. So I just moved here. And then I knew I was going to do Dancing with the Stars. So I just went straight into that. Like I could not talk about how I felt. And anytime I did, I just had like a meltdown, break down.

And so that's what I mean. It was just a lot of isolation or distraction with my phone and with people who really don't know me. Right. Because people who really don't know you are not going to really ask you how you're doing. Or know that when you say, oh my gosh, I'm doing good. That you're lying. So that happened. Then, of course, COVID happened.

And I had a lot of personal stuff. Like my family was going down and it just all kind of just came to a head. But in that hard time is now I can look back and be like, oh, wow, it really allowed me to grow so much, challenge myself. I'm proud of the person I am today. And I feel really grateful that I still get opportunities to do things like I'm doing now. And I don't think I could even be grateful at first. I was just in survival mode of like, I don't know why this. is happening, but like I guess I'm going to take it because I don't know what else I'm going to do

right now except cry. So let's just keep going. And now I've done all the crying. I've done all the well, I'm still doing all the work, but it's really nice to be able to be like humble. Humbled for sure. I think everybody needs to be humbled and realize what you have. And then now just grateful for anything that comes to me. And that's really awesome. Broad Ideas is supported by TalkSpace. Do you think seeing a therapist or psychiatrist would be helpful, but you don't have the time to actually find one and meet with them or afford them. Try Talkspace by doing everything online. Talkspace has made getting the help you want, easy, accessible, and affordable. When you've met your therapy goals or simply

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Yeah. So how did that come about? Yeah, so I finally got over just a run around with a kind of relationship. I don't even know what I'd call it. And then I was just with one of my friends and I'll just never forget. She was like, you should just do a dating app. Let's just do a dating app. So she like signed me up for one that night.

We booked a trip to Cabo and went to Cabo and then came back and I was like, okay, I guess I'll just like start doing this. this and I really got so lucky. I had fun with it, uh, didn't really care. Yeah, I didn't care. Right. I was just like, I just need to go out and start dating and maybe I just want to date like a normal person. Like, I don't know. And when I'm like a, maybe three or four dates before I met Adam, and yeah, I wasn't in that place of really wanting to be like serious with somebody, but he really kept pursuing me. And he was the one that was like, look, if you're like with other people, like, I don't want to really do this. And I was like, wait, when I'm not.

mean. Like at first I was like, I don't want to get in a relationship. And then when he was like, he's 70 years older than me too, he was like, I really like you, but I don't know if I'm just, I'm just dating you. So that's kind of what I'm wanting. And if you're not, like, just let me know. So then I'm like, fuck, okay. I really like, I mean, he's a good, he's a really good guy. So he's also worked with me a lot with our relationship because I have had a lot of hurt. through all that. I've hurt my own self. Other people have hurt me.

Like I definitely take responsibility for ways that I have not been healthy. And I've allowed for different things to happen in my life and relationships. And I told him, I was like, okay, if you want to do this, like, I am really apt up. So I cannot like guarantee like what I'm working through stuff. And he's been so great. Like we went to couples therapy just so I could be able. to tell him like why I have the doubts and the struggles that I have and he was so willing to do that and we just have great communication great great communication and I'm so grateful for that

yeah and he has been so patient well I think that's I mean in my belief it's like you call in soulmates right and oftentimes it's not what people think it's not like oh you're calling your soulmate and everything's peachy. It's like, no, you call in this person and then we get to life together. And we get to face all the things that come up together. And to me, that's what a soulmate is, is someone that can hold that mirror to you and be like, this is who you are. Yes. I would definitely say that we both can do that for each other. I think the reason we work is we both, we say this all, you don't need each other. I don't need him. I think I'd be sad if it didn't work out, but I'll be okay.

Right. And he would be okay because we're both like whole individuals. Yeah. And we have chosen to be with each other. Right. I think there was other times in life that I'm like, I need this person to love me. Oh yeah. I need them to see that we're great together.

I don't feel that pressure because it just feels safe of like, oh, you're choosing me every day. I'm choosing you every day. Right. And I can be a complete in total. mess and that doesn't make him love me less. Right. Because he's chosen me. And one of the things one of my friends told me like years ago in college is choices lead feelings follow. And I think a lot of times we go off feelings, but our feelings can change so quickly. I have already been

happy mad sad today. Right. So if I'm making and then all the actual feelings that are come down from those. So if I'm making my choices based on my feelings, then those are always fleeting. And I feel like I, for the first time, made a decision about a relationship where I've chosen this person because I love who they are. I love how they make me, how they lift me up. And I love that they have their own dreams and their own goals. And they're always working on themselves. and then they lift me up to do the same. And it's just a really nice place to be in. But I think that is one thing that I'm so glad my friend said to me

because I go back to it all the time. And anything that, anything in life, like, okay, why am I making this choice or am I doing this thing because right now I'm feeling actually really anxious or I'm feeling lonely? So I'm going to do something that's going to feel that void in this moment. or is this actually when I'm like looking at what is this going to bring to my is it going to be additive to my life and if it's a no then okay I guess I'm just trying to sit in the lonely or the anxiety right now because it is going to go away right and I don't need to make a

a choice that is just trying to make it go away quicker right yeah yeah I think that you know my therapist always said like you can survive anything right like you go through it it can be so hard but you come out of it. And when I love what you said was that you guys don't need each other, right? So you get to that place where you feel totally okay, alone and happy even, you know? Yeah.

And I think that's when you draw in the right people. I mean, I believe that. I think so too, but there's been a lot of unlearning with that. Like I definitely think, well, I know my therapist and I. We do a lot of like EMDR and her. IFA is an inner family system right now because, I mean, I remember the first time, and I've been in the relationship, I'm like, I don't even know if I actually understand love. Like, I don't think I know what love is because I haven't had, I think the experiences I've had have been really like, there's been so much chemistry. And like it feels so great when it's great, but it feels, I feel completely broken and not okay if it's not.

And but when it's great, it's like, it's amazing. And I feel like obviously we have great moments. I wouldn't be with him if I wasn't attracted to him. And we didn't have chemistry. I think it's important to have that. But it cannot be the thing that is holding the relationship together because as I've learned, then it will fall apart. But that has been a lot of me having to unlearn.

I mean, there's sometimes I've looked at him and be like, there is part of me that because I, I thrive and I think I thrive. I don't actually, like, I think my nervous system is used to chaos. I'm like, sometimes I just want to blow this shit up. Yeah. I want to do something crazy that you'll be like, this is not what I want to be for. I'm like, I literally will have moments where I'm like, I want to start a fight. I want to do something so irrational. but I think it's because that's where I feel comfortable. Even though it's safe and I feel seen, that can feel uncomfortable if you're not used to it. Yeah, it's your organizing system.

So you're used to chaos. So when you feel comfortable and safe, you're out of your comfort zone. So your natural pull is going to be like, let me fuck this up somehow so I can feel right. I mean, I told I've cried about it. I'm like, I used to be so much more fun when I was messed up. That's kind of fun. There were moments where it was fun. But I know that this is the choices that I'm making that are going to, I've seen and felt like I can fully be myself and not have to be a show.

Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think especially after everything you've been through, just to kind of come out of it after all of the work is so cool. And I think it's such a beautiful thing for young women. You know, I know a lot of ladies, like they look up to you and for you to have gone through this journey and turn it around and now with this podcast and the book you wrote, you know,

and it's such a positive model. And I'm not saying you're doing that to be a role model. You know, you're just doing it for yourself. But it's still so cool. I do think it's cool. And I think it's cool that I had the opportunity because I'll always be grateful for the Bachelor franchise because that's how I have everything that I have. But I think a lot of girls watch that show and they're like, oh, my gosh, oh, my God, it's so beautiful.

And that is not real. Right. And there obviously have been couples that have, that's how they're supposed to find each other. That's right. That's why I think people who are scared of dating apps or even going on these TV shows, it's like, you never know. You never know. Sure. Right.

But I do think the couples that do make it out, there's a lot that you have to work on. after because that is not a normal situation. So people are watching these shows and sometimes thinking, oh my gosh, it's a beautiful love story. I wish I had that. And they've watched my experience. And I love that I have the opportunity to talk about all the ways that I've messed up in relationships. And people see the way I've handled certain things in a wrong way. And not that I'm like figured it all out. But it's cool to be able to go on this journey. And now I feel really excited and thankful that I do have a relationship I'm really proud of. And it's something that like I would want for my friends. Right. And that's cool to be able to share that with other people,

but also in my own boundaries of what I want to share. Boundaries. Yes. I didn't know what that meant. One of the things that I think is really important about what you shared is it sounds like, and tell me if this sits with you, is that you went from having those kind of relationships where something I learned was I was actually using people and I didn't know it, using them to feel high or using them to feel sad or using them to fill the anxiety or anything.

And I remember someone was like, you know you're using this person as a drug. And I was like, wait, what? I'm not using him. He's using me. And they were like, no, you're using him to get high, to feel depleted, right? Like all of the ways in which addiction comes forward, we can use people.

And it sounds like that was kind of the state you were in. And then when you get in a healthy relationship, you're not using someone anymore. Exactly. And then you have to like come down from that. Well, you have to learn how to. For yourself. That's right. To regulate your own nervous system and be like, what are the things that I actually need to feel peace, to feel calm and you have to shift that and then just be in communion with someone?

For sure. Yeah, I always say my addiction was validation or significance to somebody else. Right. And like people in my family or people I know, like, suffer with them. Everybody has something. thing. I think at some point in their life, I mean, I don't want to generalize, but for me, my addiction was to looking forward from other people so that I could feel it for myself. I couldn't do that on just believing that I was worth that I had to like seek out accolades or

get the guy that was hard to get. Yeah. Who wasn't there and be like, oh, but we have these moments where I, people don't see this. Like, he does like, we, we, we, we. He does love me. I'm special. I'm special. Right. Because I can get there with him and nobody else can. It's like, no.

Like, you shouldn't have to fight that hard. I actually like love should be easy. Like you're always working on yourself, but it shouldn't be like. That shouldn't be the challenge. It shouldn't be that hard to be able to communicate with someone and have them communicate back to you to feel like they've got your back and that they are your biggest cheerleader, but you can be theirs and you also can have your own independence. Like it shouldn't be that hard for all those things that are important in a relationship to be there.

Always work, especially in the beginning. It shouldn't be hard. I'm also curious what you do because the need for validation, I think that's really common. I think that's a really common human experience, especially for young women. And I know that when I still feel it to this day, there's certain things I do to work with that aspect of myself. And I'm curious how you've worked with it. I mean, there was a, at first when I kind of like recognized it,

then I just like weirdly like caved in, if that makes sense. Like, because I realize like, oh gosh, I feel like nothing without this. So like right now I kind of feel like nothing. It's still something that I really work on. But I think the gratitude is what's been really important for that. just like being actually grateful for whatever I am and whatever season that I'm in. And when something great does happen, it's not like, oh my gosh, because they see me and they finally get it.

It's like, oh, my gosh, like, I feel so grateful that I've been able to have this experience and opportunity. And I think that's what actually keeps you humble because validation is like you said, like these highs of like, oh, now I'm worth it. Because then you'll have like the crash of now. not. And I just kind of stay like, I'm just grateful for everything that I have. Yeah. And still, of course, like, I want to be successful. I want to do things that I feel really proud of, but it's because I actually just feel proud of them. And it's not because, like, I need it to

feel proud of myself. Right, because it never, it's not sustainable, right? No. Because you can get the validation. And then what? Yeah. I mean, when I, which this is like a little, I mean, I mean, I guess it's a big thing. But like even just dancing with the stars, like when I did that, I was like, I'm winning. Like I literally was like, I have to because if not, I'm going to like freak out because everything else that I just did like didn't work out the way I wanted it to. So this is the thing that I need to happen. And then it did win. And it did not feel like anything. I was like, what's next? Oh, right. It just literally like, what's next? Immediately. immediately. And then that really hurt to recognize that. I'm like, this was such a cool experience, but I was not in the right mindset for it. Right. And that kind of sucked. Yeah. Because all I cared about was I need this little hit of significance because I am really hurting. So I just, I need this. I need this. And then it didn't do anything. Right? Yeah. Because it doesn't do anything. Right.

You're not going to do anything. Right, because it's not about any of that outside stuff. It's all the inside stuff. That's also kind of scary. It's so scary. Isn't it? Because you, well, it's sometimes I think when people realize that too, it's like hope is taken away a little bit because you always thought it would be the thing and then you get the thing

and it didn't work. Right. So then what, right? That to me is where all the inner child work is the most impactful work. because it's natural to want those things and to be able to go inside and be like, it's okay that you want that. It's okay that you want to be seen. All of those things and like working with that part of you that still craves that

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So see terms for details. So I've just started that, like, deep stuff. I think talk therapy is great. And it's something that really helped me so much. But doing that, like, go into the parts of yourself that need healing. Oh, yeah. That has been great, but it's hard. And it is scary.

And it's weird how your mind will, like, block things out for you and say, like, no, we're not ready for this. I just, last week when I was home, we were about to dig into something that I knew I need, that there's definitely something there, but it was so crazy how my brain was like, nope, we're not going there yet. And that's okay. But there have been things that I have been willing to go to and heal and be with that part of me, that like eight-year-old stuff that really needed that part to come in and

and make them feel safe. And that's been really cool. It sounds so weird and woo-woo. It does. But it's so important. And it just is. It's just something. It's real.

It's real. Yeah. And it's been so beneficial. But I say that I have a scary closet. And for me, it just like, I was just stuffing so much stuff in there that it went, it just busted out. And that's not fun. So then I was like trying to like shove it back. But now we're just like pulling one thing out at a time.

I think that's, I think that's healthy. Just point one thing out of the time. We're folding it up. And then we'll be ready to one day open that closet and see everything's there. It did mean it didn't go away. Right. It's still there. But it's neatly like filed in my brain to where these triggers aren't coming up.

And I'm falling into these patterns in times that I don't need those responses anymore to fear or anxiety. stress. Right. In life it's all about like reactions, right? And what you, you have to kind of train yourself to unreact. Is that a word? Respond. Respond. Yeah. Reaction rather. I mean, you want to respond rather than react. Right. Yes. Yes. And what I'm, it sounds like y'all've done all this work too or are doing it. Hasn't it given you a little bit more compassion for other people? Like, there's people I don't necessarily like get along with or like want to be. around and then you're like oh but they're not just awful or they're not just somebody that just annoys me like they have their own stuff right that they're just working on and right that has been

great for me because sometimes i'll just be like that person not going to be around them and now i can be like oh that people probably felt that way about me or still feel that way about me and it's just triggering some part of me that i still need to work on and that's been cool yeah yeah I always say our triggers are our gifts. You know, every time we get triggered, it's just our body telling us we have something unresolved that needs to be looked at. So it's like, is it even about the other person? Usually not at all.

Yeah. I have stuff that when I get triggered by something and I literally physically react, like I can feel it in my body because your body stores it. I'm like, what the I have no control over this. Like, what the fuck is going on? it's so awful and painful and like you know and it's just like trying to figure out how to respond and non-react but it does store it and it's like it's a process and then I'm like how long is this going to be and it's like forever till you die you you will and then what who knows we don't know

I'm hoping that that is what's on the other side. It's just full peace. But then I think like some people who don't do any of this stuff, like that doesn't seem like a well-lived life. I like that I'm constantly growing and finding out more about myself because then I can live this life a little bit better. Absolutely. And that's cool.

And I don't want to just feel stuck. That is the worst emotion for me ever. It's just when I just feel like. nothing stuck and I can't get out. It's the worst. It's the worst. It's way worse than just like sadness or, I mean, grief is hard too, but just feeling just stuck in whatever that emotion is that, I hate it.

I've been there. Don't like it. So the only way out is through and we're doing it. Right. Yeah. It's through. Foof. I know.

I just think about it and I'm like, I don't want to cut her again. Yeah. I don't want to do it, but it is necessary. Yeah. You know, and like I said, going through it with everybody watching, too. It's a whole other level of. Yeah, and very, like, personal stuff. Yeah.

Like, you know, relationships, everything that comes with that, I felt a lot of shame. There's so much that came out of having everybody kind of see me at my best and my worst. And now you have to do all the work in private. it. And I think sometimes that's how I, even with the podcast, like now I know I'm showing up differently and I'm like, oh, but people liked me for this other version of myself and I'm just not that anymore and being okay with like, I'm glad I'm not that. And if that's what people connected with, that's, that's okay. But that can't keep me stuck there. No. For other people because I need to move on for myself and just, um,

respecting and validating me and doing what I need to do instead of just trying to tap dance around for what I think other people are going to like. So that's also been a little bit scary with this new podcast is I think sometimes people loved that I was like kind of all over the place, which is still am. We're also just talking more about trauma and trying to get better. And it is all, you know, crazy. but that's probably been the hardest thing that coming back and doing something new, knowing that it's okay that I've changed and grown and people are either going to hop on the bus with me

or they're going to wait and find somebody else that they connect with more. Yeah. She doesn't watch any Bachelor stuff, you know, so she doesn't know really like what your situation was or anything. I mean, can you give her a little recap of like some of the stuff? So I was on the Bachelor. I became a Bachelorette, but it was kind of like unexpected because usually it's like the top four. And I left like the sixth or seventh person to leave. And so I didn't really think it was going to happen.

I dated Colton, which ended up, you know, he's happily married to a man now. Yes. What a plot twist. Did you guys know it all like during the season? And I did read all this, by the way. Oh, you know. Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I actually did a podcast. He came on my podcast and we talked about it. And when somebody says they're straight, you have to believe that you can't be like, no, you're gay. But I mean, you can think it. But you have to kind of believe in this. Like, wow, this is a great extremes. If he's not straight to go to, which after talking to him, I kind of can understand what maybe why he did. But yeah, there were some things that I thought, hmm, he doesn't just really seem like super into this. And I told him like our first date was just so funny in a lot of reasons. But there are certain things that he said that I'm like, how do you know what brand shoes I'm wearing? Just like not expecting him to be as, you know, always spray-tanned. Always like he really like took care of himself. And I mean, he's beautiful.

And I thought, okay, like he's definitely in his. It's feminine and some guys aren't at all. So that's cool. And yeah, it didn't surprise me. Were you attracted to that? So I, you know, the way that he was presented was like this football player. Right. And also like didn't bother me that much that he was a virgin because I had some shame growing up.

Not that I wasn't. And so I think I'm like, oh gosh, like that's really cool. Like if he's doing this for like his. faith or whatever. So I think there was part of me that was like working through my own stuff. So I was like, okay, like he's that he's so hot. It's not like he couldn't be with somebody, not knowing that he was gay. You know, I didn't think that. And then I just thought he was going to be like super masculine. I'm into like really masculine guys. Yeah, then when we had a first day, I was like, oh, he's a little bit more, you know, metro than I thought. And maybe that's, that's good

for me because sometimes being like into like super super masculine men like they're not in touch with anything right so yeah I kept trying to make it work because like I said I thought oh gosh this is just happening for me this is what's that's how I'm going to meet my husband and they were always like a few like just questioning yeah yeah and then I became the bachelorette and I was like oh my gosh how why do they pick me because I think they shook it up a little bit with me usually they try to pick the girl that's just like perfect little sweet America's sweetheart. And I don't think I was fully that on his season. I have my moments for sure because that is part of me of just, yeah, like kind and really wanting love. And there was part of me that was just very honest about

how I felt about everything. Then I felt a little bit. That's where a lot of other things came up. I started feeling like, oh, these guys actually didn't want it to be me. So I was dealing with that. So much. I mean by that? You mean, you just put that in your head. I just thought, oh, these guys didn't want it to be me. Yeah. What guys?

The guys that were on my season. The guys that were on her season. Because they didn't know it was me. They signed up before they knew who it was going to be. So in your head. Oh, you thought they were disappointed. Yeah, in my head. That's classic.

Like, just being in your head. No, I genuinely thought like I was very, and that's why I think I picked the guy that I did because he was honest at the. beginning, but not fully, but not fully. He was like, hey, like, I came on this show for music, and I was like, at least somebody saying why they actually came on this show. Right. And so I really did myself a disservice. And then he wasn't fully honest, but I thought, oh, well, at least this guy's saying, hey, this is how it came to the show, but I actually, like, am really, like, falling for you. And I'm like, oh, great. At least he's telling me. The truth. Which is sad that that

That's like what... That's the thing. That was the thing. Right. 1,000. Like, I've done, like, a lot of, like, why I went that way and it felt safer because at least he wasn't giving me the answer that everybody else was. Right. Or what they think you want to hear.

Yeah. Yeah. And that didn't work out. I... He was, like, dating someone. Which... And he wasn't honest about it, right? Yeah.

He was dating somebody. While he was on the show. While he was on the show. I found out through, like, literally. People magazine. Like it was really horrible. They were engaged. They got engaged on the show.

And he still had a girlfriend back at home that was like, wait, you got engaged? Like, yeah. Who now was my sister-in-law? What? Hold on. Yes. She's your sister-in-law? Yeah.

What do you mean? I do. Yep. So, yeah, my life is the reality TV show. Yeah, that is who my brother married last year. The girl he was. dating his girl your ex-fiance's girlfriend at the time yeah is now your sister-in-law because she's married you can't write this you can't write this you can't write this but hold on how meant to be is that

i mean that's how we're going with it yeah right yeah like that's a more positive spin it is and that's what we've worked on in therapy of the because they are um it was definitely really hard for a while of course um but but holy shit huh how did they meet how do they meet That's a whole, I think they first talked when my, there was like rumors that something was going on, but I wasn't really talking to my family because they liked the other guy. And when they met, oh, because they met everybody. They met. Yeah.

So they. Your final three were him. Peter and Tyler. Right, right. Cameron. Yeah. And yeah, but they had also been hearing rumblings that like he wasn't there. He might have a girl, but my parents, which I understand.

stand like where the producers said don't say anything to her and they kept saying they didn't like it. And I'm like, why don't you like them and went and say why? So then I just thought, oh, they're just being. So you wanted to go against it. I kind of want to go against it because they weren't telling me why they didn't like them. And it really made me mad. Yeah, I get that. So anyway, didn't work out. And but then, you know, I still, I think I was really upset with myself because I was realizing like, oh, I did have feelings for these other two guys. And if I want to believe that they actually liked me, I guess, you believed, you didn't think they did? I just, I thought they, I don't know. Your mind was just fucking with you. I know what it is. I figured it out for myself and

tell me if this works for you. So I always despised when guys liked me, did not like the way it felt. I only liked the guy that was unavailable, that wasn't that interested, right? And as I I came to it, I had this realization that the guys that would like me or say they liked me, I didn't trust because I had such a low opinion of myself that for them to like me, I felt like there's something untrustworthy about them. They don't see it. They don't see what's so deeply unlovable about me. I don't trust them. I definitely think that. But then there's this also it's a TV show thing that I think I think I could have that element right yeah and then what I realized after everything the first night I was there I said my guy's not here I did the first time I met everybody

I was like I don't think my guys here and then like I think it was like episode seven I wanted to stop I was just like I but you know they're really good at at getting you to fully invest so then after that I'm like okay I'm going to have to fully go I'm just going to go fully in and what I did was gave like four different people, a little piece of my heart. And then you can't do that. And then when it didn't it didn't. I wouldn't say like, yeah, don't do that. Don't do that. Wait, it was, okay, but like, wasn't it you and Peter that really went for it? Like, that was famous. That's the infamous thing. Yeah, but also I think a lot of that was. What does that mean? Is that true? It was true, right? Yeah. Then fantasy suites, you can like sleep with the people and her and one of the contestants like

really went there. Like, and they talked about it. And they talked about it. And then it got me to talk about it, but that's a whole, like, trust in. But that was like the first time where it was like very, well, I mean, I know girls have been honest and stuff, but just because they really put a lot on like, oh, you guys slept together a few times that night and like really like talked about her personal business. Yeah, I never thought it would be something that would be aired because they didn't ever talk about it that openly. And I think I was just very trusting. Wait, he said it. I don't remember. No, I said it. You're the one that. I said it. I said it. I said it.

Yeah. No, I definitely did. Do they try and, like, talk you into sleeping with the person? No. Or is it like, you can if you want to. No, it's very set to. All the room was was a bed. I mean, it's, it's really hard.

And then there's so much pent up energy because you're making out with all these guys, like, for me, you're making out with all these guys all the time. And then it's like, okay, stop. And then, okay, you'll have to like, okay, next guy. And it's like, there's just so much pent up. Fun. Yeah. And Peter was the first guy that was the first.

That was the first, that was the first, fantasy suite. And I think that was just like, you got to get it out. I got to just. And it really, like I did have feelings for Peter, for sure. But I do think it could have been whoever was the first person. Right.

That sounds so bad. No, but like, after all that pent up stuff, it makes sense. Yeah. I think. And you're attracted to all these people that are coming into the suite. Yeah. And we've had in, that's the first time that you don't have cameras. Yeah.

So, I mean. Did you feel safe about that? I feel like I would feel like there was still cameras. Even though obviously there wasn't. I mean, obviously, I was a little too trusting with everything. I think I just didn't care. How old are you? How old are you?

I was also like 24. Exactly. You're 24. having fun. I was so like my hormones were raging at that point. And yeah, it's all these like good looking guys. Right. Yeah. Like vying for you like everything. And you're like 24 years old. Yeah. Then there's, but then there's part of me that was like, uh, I think I caused a lot of my own hurt for sure. And then I think I was right because I've talked about it. Like I also had another, Tyler and I had like a little thing. Peter and I had a little thing after. And I had a little thing after.

and there's part of me that was kind of right. I think once you're out of the show, everything's a little bit different. And I think I knew that. Yeah. And maybe they didn't, but I did. I think that they did like me and have feelings for me, but life outside of the show.

Yes. And I think that's what hurt me even more. Yeah. But I had already hurt them because I didn't choose them too. So it's very complicated. It was unbalanced. It's a mind game. Yes.

And so I had to heal from all that of like, oh, people say they love me, but they really don't. And you had that though, because you went into it thinking like, oh, they're disappointed that I'm a bachelor's. So it was also on me. Like, I'll take full responsibility of like I had already made it up in my head that they didn't really like me. And then like, oh, then they're actually deciding. Oh, they actually, now they're, am I charming them? Am I making them? Am I making them like love me?

Because I am doing the thing. doing the thing. Yeah. That's kind of what I felt too. And there's part of me that wanted, obviously, to make them fall in love with me. Right. Of course. But are they really in love with me? And was it me putting on a show because I am the Bachelorette or did they actually like see me? It's very complicated. That's so tricky. Um, very, very complicated. And that's, I'm still working through a lot of that. Also comes from a lot of the relationships I had beforehand too. How I went into the show also made a big difference. That's why I love watching. This is the first season I've really watched back of the Bachelorette and The Bachelorette now, Charity. Like, you can tell and she did a lot of her work

before she became the Bachelorette, like had trauma in her past, but like, you know, worked with a therapist and figured a lot of that out. You can tell. Yeah. She seems like, I've watched like the first few and she seems like she's got a good head on her shoulder, good support system, like all of that. I didn't watch the last Bachelor season, so I didn't know I didn't either. Okay. And it's been cool, but I can watch it now being a person that's been on that side. I'm like, wow, like she's really advocating for herself.

She's confident and knows exactly what she wants. I was the youngest bachelor ever, too. Oh, wow. The age thing is also a thing for me. And I thought it wasn't because I thought I wanted to get married, like all my friends. I was in Alabama at 22. Right. And so I thought, when I heard people saying something about my age, I'm like, they don't know.

I am ready for this. And at that place and in the size of my world, maybe, and then my world got a lot bigger and I had a lot more experiences. And I was not ready. Right. I was not ready. Yeah.

I look at this and I'm like, how are they putting these 22-year-old girls, you know, in this situation or guys or whomever? Like, they need to be at least like, I don't even know. But like older, you know, I just don't know that you know. We should do the geriatric one. They are, too. No, they are.

They have a golden bachelor. Oh, they do? How old is he? 70. 70. See, I would like something like a, like 40. Right. I'm telling you, I'm 41.

I've never been married. I've been in obviously long-term relationships. I'll be 42 the end of this month. I'm just now feeling like maybe I could. Yeah. Do a bachelorette? Yeah. Maybe I could be a golden bachelorette.

That would be honest. No. I wouldn't suggest it. I do have a question, though, because you were saying that you didn't necessarily trust that the guy's feelings for you were 100%. Does that have anything to do with your experience of doing it first and going along with it maybe despite your feelings? Oh. I'm one of those people, especially if I want something. Like, it genuinely was not because I want to win.

I wanted to make it work. Like I was like, okay, like I said, thought this was for me. I thought this was all ordained that I was supposed to be on the show. So I'm like, okay, how am I going to work with this guy? Like, he's a little bit different than I thought he was going to be. But I looked back at my journals. There was times where I'm like, I don't know. When I went on my last date that he did break up with me, I was like questioning if it was right for me.

So I was like aware. But yeah, I think knowing that you're also just talking about this one guy all day. That's not normal. Right. And somebody else is asking about this guy all day. So yeah, I think a lot of knowing what is on that other side made me a little wary of how they actually felt. And nothing on them. Like it wasn't that I even thought that they were like purposely trying to play me.

I think the environment makes it very easy to get, I don't want to say, very enthralled by someone because that's all your life is about for weeks. It's the only thing that you're talking about. And I'm the only option. So, yeah, I think a lot of my own doubts and fears came into play on that show. And a little projection, too. So much projection. Yeah.

So much projection. Still think some of my stuff was right, though. But yeah, I could have given them. It might have been a different experience if I was a lot more confident in being in that role. Maybe not one of a minute's good of a TV show, but I don't think I was ever that confident in the role and trusting of what these guys were saying. To me, that sounds healthy. It is. That's the thing, though. That actually sounds healthy. Why should you trust that many people to be in love with you? That's weird.

So, like, that's where, yes, I needed to go on this journey. I had a lot of healing, obviously, to do. But I do think there's a lot that I was right in fearing. Right. Because also, like, these guys aren't knowing, like, I remember, I think they did show this. Like, the guy that I ended up getting engaged to, they gave him my best friend's number. for her to be able to zoom with me before I made my decision. And of course, that played a huge role because I was very conflicted. But I'm not talking to my family and my friends. And I feel like at that time, I really, my best friend, like, I really trusted her opinions. And they knew that. And that, like, definitely played into.

Did she zoom all the last three? No, just with the one that I ended up being with. and that was big. But he didn't know her. He didn't ask to do. He did not ask to do that. They gave him the idea. Oh.

You know. Okay. Or they were talking about it and then maybe he asked, but they had. They played into it. Of course. They're producing a TV show. They're producing a TV show. Sure.

And I was so conflicted because the other relationship, final two, progress slower because of my own insecurities, but also, having my spidey senses out too now, but I didn't know. I like changed it up so quickly with like, I thought Peter and Jed, who I was with were always going to be my final two until like, literally like before the fantasy suites. And I'm like, I think it's Tyler. And but that messed up the narrative. Right. And so that was not being fully as supported sometimes because, you know, the only people you're talking to are people who are making a TV show. So you're going through. show.

Yeah. You're going through like your thoughts. And so you're always like, anytime you're trying to get feedback. So I think it all worked out the way it was supposed to now. But it's so complex. And that's I have so much compassion for anybody on the show. And I do not like to shit talk or question people's decisions on the show now that I've

been on it because you have no idea the complexity of making just like one decision on that show and how many. hands are involved or how much you didn't see. So whenever my boyfriend and I watched the show and he says anything, even if it's like what everyone's saying, I'm like, we don't know what just happened. Yeah. I get very different for anyone.

Right. Even if there are a piece of shit, I'm like, we don't know. Maybe he was told to say, maybe he was put in this situation. Maybe he didn't actually want to do that. And so, yeah, that was my experience. Yeah. Do you ever regret it? Yeah.

Do I ever regret it? No. When people say they don't regret anything, I don't really believe that. Like, there's a lot of things. If I hurt someone, I wish I could take back any hurt that I've ever made somebody feel. But the way, like, life works, it's like if you change one thing, then some of the best things in your life may not happen. So I have to believe, and I trust that. But yeah, there are some decisions that I made that maybe I regret because they were made in

fear or in something to do with me and I reacted instead of responded. So yeah, there's things that I wish I would have done differently, but ultimately, like, it was my journey. And I'm very thankful for all the other wonderful experience. There's some hard things that we've talked about. There are also some, like, wonderful, magical moments that really. changed my life. I've never been outside of the country before. And like anytime I go like this past year, I went to Europe for myself for like seven weeks and I messaged the executive producer and I was just like,

I just want to say like I just thank y'all for allowing me to see that the world is so big. And now I'm getting to do this for myself. And I will always be thankful for that, especially that they just open my world up in a way that it felt so small. Yeah. It's such a positive. Yeah. The message and spin on it, you know, and all these experiences you go through in life. And if you can look at and take like even one positive out of it, you know, and you grow from it and it really does shape you. And I believe in like, not regrets, but I like what you said. I believe in regrets. I believe in regretting every fucked up decision I made. But like, yeah, like if you just look at like maybe I would have done something different said something different but like not harping on it and just accepting and just believing that everything is happening for you.

Yeah and like I've definitely grown so much and I learned so much about myself and I think a lot of times people that do these shows and even for me you have to like you need to take a step back because you can kind of focus on the ways that things didn't go your way. Right. But I really like think I have everything that happened. happen, happen, because now I can look back and also say, like, hey, there's a lot of things that play. Like, it might have been a little bit different. Here's where I contributed it. But also, no, like, yeah, they're making a TV show.

This is their job. That's how they're feeding their family. And there was a lot of fun that came out of it. And who knows what I would be doing now? Right. I would probably have, like, three babies, holding in barefoot. Do they really give you a lot of alcohol? People were going to be like, I thought you were fucked up the whole time.

No, I was on Accutane when I was on The Bachelor. And kind of at the end of just like weaning off of it when I was on The Bachelorette. So I wasn't allowed to drink. That's good. Yes, that was good. But people are like, so you did that completely sober. And then as the Bachelorette, I don't know how people could drink the whole time as the Bachelorette because I was already just so tired.

And when I drink, I get tired. So I would have like a glass of champagne, maybe a day. I mean, I stayed like when I had a cocktail parties, but I couldn't even like, you're talking the whole time or making out. Right. So I had like one of the dates was like a whiskey tasting. So I got drunk that day for sure. And there was like maybe one other day that I drank a little bit, but it was never like out

of control for me. But I also had those own limitations on myself. And I was taking medication. that made it to where I shouldn't drink. But that was also like, I never really drank before. But when I was dealing with everything, that's when I started drinking a lot. And that wasn't me at all. Yeah.

And I would have like a cocktail at a good restaurant that has good cocktails, but I'm not like drinking that much. Right. There are people that drink a little bit too much on that show, for sure. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, also I feel like, I don't know. When I used to drink, if I were to have to watch it back, that would be really uncomfortable.

Well, there are sometimes, like, I just hadn't eaten that much. And, you know, even half a, I am such a lightweight. Like, I'm talking, like, half a glass of champagne. You can just, like, tell for me. I'm not being, like, stupid or anything. But I'm like, man, I can kind of feel it. So it doesn't take much at all. And, yeah, there are certain times I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can tell that.

It's like the day that I drank a glass of shan thing. But yeah, I'm glad that I had that limitation to put on myself too. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're making these like life decisions supposedly. I don't need to be, right? I need to be sober.

Right. For the most far. Yeah. Afterwards. Different story. I was like, I can't be sober right now. Yeah. Well, maybe like just, I know our time's almost up.

So maybe a couple fun questions. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. I have to put my glasses on. You do. Her transitional lenses, by the way. Don't make fun.

Oh, my gosh. I got some of those and I can't wear them. You got transitional. Or transition. Oh, no. Oh, true. Oh, this. Yeah.

Yeah. So I was thinking it's the ones that have like the two. The bifocals. I have bifocals. Yes. Yeah. No, these are not bifocals, but they make fun of me because they're transitional. I think they're cute, though.

Thank you. They are cute, right? Thank you. I like them. I like them too. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay.

And if I go outside, they're protected. That's right. All right. If you had to date one of these people who would you choose, a hoarder, an Elvis Presley impersonator, or someone that speaks in a fake British accent. Like always speaks a fake? Yeah.

Yeah. Never been to England, you know, someone that just puts it on. I guess the Elvis impersonator, I think. Or, yeah, I mean, because that would be fun sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. I like Elvis. I'm related to Elvis.

What? Yeah. What do you mean? Like very distant. But yeah, my family, one of my family members did all the like ancestry stuff. And it's like the Native American in us. There was like this one, there's like a book about her. But she had like a bunch of.

of daughters and he comes from one of the daughters and my family comes from one of the others. So like, yeah, we're kind of related. Oh, that's totally related. That was my, whenever my fun fact when I was little, I would say I'm related to Elvis Presley. I mean, that's really cool, but like very cool. Yeah. That should have when you're on the show when they have those like tagline. Elvis Presley's relative.

Related to Elvis. Okay, if you had to adopt one celebrity, who would it be? probably the Alex Earl right now because I need her to teach me how to do all the stuff like how do I do my makeup like that do you know Alex Earl is TikToker?

No. Oh, you gosh. Now you've got to know who Alex Earl is. Probably her right now because she's just like the queen of TikTok and she does her makeup

and she's fun and she probably made me be a little fun. I'm going to look her up. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. I don't know how these

like I don't know how to contour. I don't know how to do any of it. Exactly. Do you? No. No. I'm trying. I mean, you contour? I have contoured. I wouldn't say I contour.

Are you a contour? Yeah. I'm a contortionist. But do you do it? Like if you do your makeup? I have, but it's not something I do. Huh. Also, in this question, I was thinking adopted has to be somebody younger than me, but if it wasn't, it would be like Reese Withers Freeman or Jennifer Garner because I just think they're so fun and sweet. I want them to adopt me. There you go. Right.

Just a, yeah, they're in your family now. You can adopt them. Yeah. Yeah, that works. That's what. Then we'll have little Alex Earl. And she'll make up for everybody. She'll tell us like what we need to be doing. Oh, I want to look at around. Me too.

How do you feel about partners keeping memorabilia from past relationships? I think that's okay. I have a little box of like memories for sure. But there's at my parents' house. I don't keep it with me. Okay, yeah. I was going to say, does he know that you have it? I don't care if he does or not.

It's just like it's not something that I'm going and looking at. I have it because also I had like a little album of like being the bachelorette. So that's that's kind of what I have. Yeah. Then like a few little like one thing from each relationship just because one day I'm going to have a daughter. I can talk about these things and what I learned. So I don't think it's weird. Now if I had it like, it's my parents.

Like I said, it's my parents house. It was like out where I could easily get to it all the time on your end tables. That's weird. Yeah. Like it used to be like in an attic that it's not easily. It's not. Yeah. And I don't know if I would have it without it being in my parents' house, but I do have it.

So I would think it was weird if it was something that you ever caught them looking at. Sure. And they weren't like very open about it. It would be weird. It would be weird. They like slam the box. Yeah. But if it was like funny and they're like, oh my gosh.

Like I was putting this thing that you gave. me in this box and I don't know. Actually, who knows? Maybe right now I think it's fine because I have one at my mom's. So I hopefully Adam's okay with that. But when you find his, is it going to be okay? You're like, it depends on what's in it. Yeah, actually, because I'm confident in our relationship and how he feels about me. Good. What if it's like a girl's like underwear? No, that would be really weird. Okay, good. Like I'm talking like a picture from like a memory or like a scarf or something that's important to him. that wasn't just because of this other girl. I think that's the difference.

If it's like a lot of love letters and that's kind of weird, that would be weird. Yeah. A little bit. It's a little weird. Yeah. What do they all feel about it? It's a tough one. It depends.

It's very, it's, uh, it depends on what's in there for sure. And I would want them to share it with me. Yes. See, I'm the opposite. You wouldn't want to know. I've come across what looks to be like, memories and I've just been like I'm gonna let that lie and not look in it and not because I feel like we're all kind of entitled to our own like privacy I agree with that but I do think there's something

special like I will always ask him about like who was you're like I don't want to talk about this I'm I don't want to know but I'm like what like did you love about your ex-girlfriend I'll ask them because I like to know like what drew him him to a certain person. And maybe that's because my dating life is so public. Right. Maybe. Yeah.

So that's maybe why I'm like that. But yeah, I like to know how he met like why he decided to date somebody, why it ended, what was like a really cool experience you had together because then I'm learning about him too. Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's really open. Yeah.

Very evolved. And caring. Yeah. I don't want to know. I'm not a jealous person though at all. And I'm not like a. yeah that's not what I struggle with is that with everyone yeah I don't feel like I've ever been like jealous I'm always like if you do something I'm going to find out now my heart has been

hurt I've been hurt but I'm not um I don't put that on another person that's on our relationship and like what is she doing it's like no what did you do yeah and I'll find out eventually and yeah so that's not something I really struggle with so I like talking about other that he's been in love and how he got to be with me. Okay. What do you find unforgivable? Well, just lying and being dishonest. Like, that is so big for me.

I think sometimes I'm honest to a fault. So I really require that. And, yeah, lying about really anything. Because even if it starts with little things, it's like, why did you lie to me? Uh-huh. So I am, I'm so dumb with that. Yep. Yep.

Very triggered by that. Yep. Yep. And get it. I just don't, that's not somebody I want to spend my life with. Mm-mm. No. No.

Could you imagine? Like just, yeah. Honesty is key. All right. Should we one last one? How do you keep things exciting in a long-term relationship? Wait. How long have you been with?

Two and a half years. Okay. Okay. We were talking about that the other night. I think it's continuing to really date. like planning special moments. And I was like, even if it's just like, we haven't been this great about that recently

because I've been so busy. I'm like, even if it's just like, hey, I booked us this like fun hot yoga class and then we're going to go and have a smoothie at the park. Like really intentional time together, I think makes a big, big difference because it can be really easy when you're living with somebody,

a long-term relationship to get just so lazy. and you do the same routine and also having the communication to say, hey, I feel like we're getting lazy. And like, I need you to plan a date. Right. So I think that is how we've kept things fun and exciting because we do exciting things together. Do you live together? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. So you guys are in it. We're in it. You're in it. Yes. And it's been great. But he's also been really great about just allowing me to go on my own journey with healing.

and I'm really happy just like where we're at and what we're doing and trying to not care what other people think our timeline should be. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. Nobody's, that's great. Timeline. It's nobody's business.

Yeah. Really. We're going to end on one just silly one. Stranded on an island. Three people. Okay. You can only save one. Oprah.

Amy Schumer or Channing Tatum. Who do you save? You is going to live the rest of your life on that? with this one person. Yep. So who's it going to be? Like the unhealthy part of me wants to say Channing Tatum, but I think I would say Oprah because I feel like she could really help me mentally get through it.

We could help each other. But the part of me that also wants this, you know, make this island a village. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if that's unhealthy. I don't know. Yeah. That's also one of those things. Oh shit.

I was still going to say Oprah. Well, she would help me. I need people that help my mind the most. There you go. Yeah. Don't we all? I think you.

What? What? Who would you pick? Who would you pick? I'd pick Channing just because I'd want to make more humans and like procreate and all that. I think Rachel would 100% choose Amy Schumer and and Dater. I mean, she's so fun. I love her and I would save her.

Is that who you would say? Yes. Because you know what? We would have a fucking fun time on that island. Y'all would have fun. We would have so much fun. Like, that is who I would want to spend all day with. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's not going to be as fun for sure, but. No. I'm like, I'm like, maybe it's just the stage.

I mean, I'm like, which is this is not about being fun. It's about somebody helping me be happy and present and not freak out because we're on a stranded island together. Right. I might not be that fun. That's a smart choice. Yeah.

It is. I thought all the choices were really great. No, it's a bad option. No. They're all great options as far as I'm concerned. I love that. That's why we put them out there. We wanted to make it really hard because they each offer something different.

Yes. Different. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm going Schumer. You're going Channing. You're going Oprah. We all had different.

We all have different islands. And we're all going to be happy with our choices. And I'm going to have a lot of fun. Oh my gosh. Hannah, thank you so much. And you're just so beautiful and open and wonderful. So we're so happy you came.

Thank you all. And congratulations. So fun. Thank you. Yeah. It's been a wild ride. But I'm grateful to where I am today and all the fun things I'm getting to do. So thank you all for chatting with me about it.

Yeah. Thank you. So Olivia, now we can tell Rob about Olivia's adventure to California adventure. Olivia went hard. I've gone really hard for a long time now. But I think the part Rachel cares most about. It's this transition lens really got me out of... Did you wear those all day at California Adventure?

All day. Of course. Why else would you have them if it's not for an amusement park? Right. Why wouldn't you? You know what I mean? Yeah, I totally know what you mean. You know what I realized when I was at the park?

What? That I'm basic. Explain. My outfit. I was wearing the same thing as every girl there. Did they all have transition lenses, too? I started a worldwide trend. I was wearing a black, like, sports bra tink top and black biker shorts

with tennis shoes and my Mickey mini mouse hat and a fanny pack. Okay? As was every single chick there. Let me add, when you went to Disneyland last year, you were wearing the same thing. Correct. Because when you wear those biker shorts, you feel invincible. You feel like you can do anything. They're so comfortable.

There's no shafing, you know. Shafing? Yeah, shafing. Chafing. You mean chafing, I think? I'm sorry, I mean chafing. There's no chafing. Shafing.

It's shafing. It's shafing. I can't say it. Chafing. It's chafing. Stop, Rob. It's chafing. Don't mess with her.

I don't even hear the difference between what you're saying. I really don't. But, you know, it was so hot you had to wear shorts. You can't wear jean shorts. Oh, yeah, jean shorts. Because if you get wet on a ride, my whole thing is. Jeans are no bueno because of the water. Riker shorts are not jean shorts.

No, you don't know what bikeer shorts are? Well, I thought you meant like biker, like motorcycle shorts. What? So like cut off denim shorts, not like... What is that a motorcycle short anyway? Okay, sorry. Those are motorcycle shorts.

I don't feel like shorts on motorcycles are welcome. Anyway, continue. And you can't do pants because it's too hot. Right. So you were in biker shorts along with every other female at Disneyland. Well, you know what even trumped that? outfit is the same exact outfit but a one piece.

Oh yeah. That's what's up. Those are happening. Everyone was wearing with their mini-maskot. How do you pee? Like that is a big deal. Oh. Well, you just take it off. Yeah, but that's always like you're naked in a restroom at Disneyland. Okay. Rob is showing me a very

inappropriate picture of a girl on a motorcycle and very short shorts. Short, jean shorts. That's me. This is the outfit you described, actually. Oh, my God. No, it's not. Okay.

Any Hewielhouser. Any Hewelhouser, I discovered that I was very basic. But what wasn't basic was my son Shepard. So he, Rob, you know how Little Shepard is. We stood in line and Jeff, like, passed him by in the line for, what is it called, Rachel? What? The ride passed? Oh, for Guardians.

No. Yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy. Have you been there? Do you know what that right is? At Disneyland, California Adventure? I know what it is. I've not been on it. Oh, this isn't going to land on you then.

I didn't realize this was Disney also. I thought you were at some like... California Adventures. Yeah, I know. I know. Well, now I'm realizing that. But I thought this was just some like country fair. Have you not done it?

I think we did it when we went. He thought I was at a country fair. I've only done once. I went to a country fair. No, that was me. I went to a county fair. No, that was last weekend. Yeah.

Oh yeah, you went to a county fair too. Oh my gosh. Okay, so go on. So Guardians of the Galaxy is a really intense ride where they take you to the top of the building and drop you. Free fall. Free fall. Like it's the most insane feeling. So I didn't know what it was. Neither to Jeff were like, oh, it's Guardians of the Galaxy to take Shepard and Elliot on.

Shepard's four. And Shepard's allowed on this ride? Well, here's the thing. So we went fast because we had the past. where you kind of cut the line because of his disabilities, not because we're spoiled. So we walk up and we're right about to get on the ride. And the lady comes up and she's like,

I'm sorry, sir, we're going to have to measure your son again because he looks too small. So they go to measure him. He's not like standing up completely straight. She's like, I've got two fingers. He can't go on the ride. Finally, Jeff's like, put your arms up straight to get him to stand up straight.

And someone from the crowd yells, he made it. And everyone starts cheering. It was like one of the most triumphant moments I've ever experienced. It was so cute. Did he actually make it? Or this person was just now pressured to let him on the ride? Correct. So we go on the ride.

It's the most intense feeling of this kid was so traumatized. Like he was stuck still for like 30 minutes after the ride with his face frozen. He reenacts it. now, Rachel. I'll be like, what was the up and down? And he just stares like he saw a ghost. He was absolutely traumatized. And afterwards, we're like, we are the worst parents in the world for bringing our baby on that ride. It was not. They took their four-year-old on like the most intense. And somehow forced your way onto it. Oh, my God. I died. When she told me, all she said was, because, you know, we are avid guardian of the galaxy goers. And she goes, we took shepherd on guardians. And I was like,

what? He's four. I died. Oh, my God. But the funny part is everyone there wanted him on it too. It wasn't just us. No one warned you. That ride is so,

it's Breyer's favorite ride. That is her favorite ride. When we got off, Elliot was like, my stomach's in my balls. Are you sitting down? Are you hanging? You're sitting down.

Rob, I want to go just for you to experience it. I'm not going to ride that. You're not going to ride that? Oh, no, you have to. You have to ride that. What do you mean? I don't get motion sickness on roller coasters.

It's not like that. You'll be fine. It's not motion. You just said you go to the top and then drop. You free fall, but you don't. It's not like a roller coaster, windy. You're just straight. Yeah, that's where I get motion.

You can do it. He'll be fine. If Shepard can do it, you can do it. It sounds like he can't. You just said he was traumatized. The only ride I got motion sickness on was like a tractor ride that like spins you around. Pugh. Oh, you went on.

that, yeah. I had to. Yeah, of course. I have to do all the things too. Shepard hated it. He hated it? Hated it. Interesting. I know. My, you know, so I went to the Orange County Fair and there was a ride. So we went with our friends and, you know, Stella, she's 11. So she wanted to do the bigger rides, but I think they needed adults to go with them or something. Anyway, her and her friend. And like, no one was volunteering. So of course, I step up. What ride? Oh, Lord. One of the most, you know, one of the ones you look at and you're like, there's no chance in hell I'm going on that ride.

Oh, no, you didn't. Oh, yes, I did. Especially at a county fair. Yeah, like that. But it's higher and you flip around and you go around and like the whole thing. I get motion sick too. But like, of course I'm like, well, I'm going to go because that's just how I roll, I guess. Yeah, because you can't not.

I can't not. Because you're too codependent? No, I wanted the kids to be able to go on it. Exactly. I would have done it too. Of course you would have. Because we are yes people. I had to go on this roller coaster so Breyer could ride it.

You know, it's just what you do. I like roller coasters. Like the Incrediccoaster was so much fun. It's so much fun. It's so good. You don't like roller coasters at all, Rob? No. Nothing?

Nothing. Not a single. What are you going to do? You're going to have to go on them with your kids. I was going to be like, you're going to have to go on. Or does Natalie do that? Or does Natalie like it? Natalie will do it.

Oh. Look at him. Does she like him? Yeah, she's fine with them. All right. Well, that's a good partnership because you need to have someone that's willing to do all the things. I don't think Calvin is exactly going to be jumping on roller coasters, though, either. Really?

He will at some point. He throws up in the car on like 45-minute road trips. That's right. I don't know about him doing those. Right. I had to do the kid swap thing where you go and you go and then Elliot goes with me and then swaps out and goes with Jeff. Yeah. Because Jeff and I both wanted to go on.

On the your credit coaster? Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun one. Briar went on once. She doesn't want to do it. She doesn't like going upside down, but I'm working on it. I like it.

I do too. I love roller coasters. I get sick sometimes because after I had a kid, I get motion sickness, but I'm still down. I love all that stuff. It's only if they spin me around do I get sick. Spinning is not great. But like water parks, that's what scares me. Because like water scares me.

Okay. Because like drowning. Yeah. You think you're going to drown? I always have the visual. Like if you're at a water park and you're in one of the tunnel ones, that like something's going to happen, it's going to get blocked up and you're going to be stuck inside the tube. Water's going to fill up.

Yeah. That's never going to happen. But you know, that's where my brain goes. Just like you guys, how I told you a few weeks ago, my fear. of a snake being in the toilet when you go to the bathroom. Did it happen? I sent it to you.

There's been two things I've seen. You're finding it's on the internet, though? This wasn't like a personal friend that sent you this. Rob, the video is there. It's not fake. I know it's not fake, but yeah, you can find a video of anything

on the internet. I wasn't looking for it. It just fell into my lap. It's because we talked about it and your phone listens. I don't know, but I definitely sent it to you guys. Yeah, it was when we were at dinner.

Oh, you didn't see it. Yeah. Okay. She kept saying like, this bitch is texting. That's right. This bitch always texts her. You kept mumbling every time a text would come in from Rachel. Shut up, Rob. Did not. You absolutely did.

Shut up. Did I say Rachel's texting us? Yeah. Well, maybe I said Rachel's texting us. And then you like threw your phone. Yeah, well, you should have brought up that there was a fucking snake in a toilet. I reacted to it. What did you say?

Oh, you mean on the text? Yeah. Yeah. But I'm sorry, it was true. She was too busy. Because you guys never thought of it ever. And now I prove that it can happen. And it is of genuine fear.

Well, I, okay. Well, I think it brings up a bigger conversation. How do you feel about people being on their phones when they're at dinner? Yeah, that shouldn't happen. Yeah. Only reason, like, if I'm at dinner and my phone's out, it's because I'm away from my kid and, like, just in case, right? It's fine if you, like, go and text a little, like, if you have to, like, respond to something.

In there on your phone is not. That doesn't. No, it's not a good luck. That's why I didn't look. Well, you have to look after, though. That's the problem is like if you don't look in the moment, then you don't see the things. Oh, Jeff lectures me this every day. But I have to look at the messages.

Yeah, because then you don't see it. You miss a lot. Rob goes to the bathroom and sees everything. Yep. You know what? That was a beautiful bathroom. It was a nice bathroom. The whole bathroom experience, the whole experience was beautiful.

Last time I was there, some woman was in the bathroom there and did not lock the door. Oh. And I opened it like mid-crowch over the toilet. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. I saw Barbie. Is that what you wound up doing yesterday with Jeff?

No, I ruined Jeff's day yesterday. What happened? I did. I ruined it. What did you do? Well, we were supposed to go spend the day. and do something special because we had our nanny. Yeah, you told us we can't do any work this week

because you've got special week with Jim. Yeah. And I slept through it. I went to sleep. Went to sleep when? Well, we were watching a comedian that was like, okay, well, relax, watch a little TV. Like 11 a.m.?

What's the timing of this? I think I slept from maybe 12 to 3. I slept the day away. How do you nap for that long? Yeah, that's a long nap. Here's the thing, guys. I have not stopped. I know, but I still couldn't nap for that long.

I walked for nine hours at Disneyland in 95-degree heat. Hold on. So you slept from 12 to 3. What was Jeff doing? He ended up reading because I guess he was trying to watch a movie and I was hitting him. Like, turn the TV off. So he read. Was he mad? He wasn't happy.

He was like, I thought it was supposed to be our special day to like spend time together and you slept for three hours. He's like, I just brushed my teeth. Yeah. Oh, no. Well, did you make it up to him once you woke up? It was a hard recovery. Yeah. I could see that.

The rest of the night was trying to recover. Three to eight? That's a good amount of time. Yeah, we watched Shrinking and our comedian. Wait, so when did you see Barbie? The night before. With who? Jeff.

Oh, okay. So you guys had a date night? Yeah. Okay. Wait, the night before, after Disneyland, you went to the movies? Before Disneyland. So two nights before. Got it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, your timeline's all scattered off. I needed a break, you guys. You need a nap. Epic nap. You and Leah are epic nappers. I am not. I cannot sleep more than 20 minutes. If I fall asleep during the day, it's 20 minutes. That's it. That's me too. I can't. I wish I could. Do you know how amazing? Oh, I could go all day. Yeah. But to me, that signifies that I needed it. Well, yeah, of course you needed it. But, oh, I feel for Jeff. I do. I know. You're such a, she's a better, she's a better sister wife than I am. When I'm doing stuff like that, she's like, how could you do that to him?

So what's on the agenda today after this? Is he going to play that guitar at you? Oh, you saw Barbie too. No, but I've heard. Will you stop? I don't know anything. I don't want to know anything. I'm going to go see.

You know what? Maybe I'll go by myself today while Breyer's at cooking camp. You should. If you want me to, I will happily see it again with you. On your romantic day with Jeff again today, you're going to go see a movie with Rachel. You're packing for the lake. Now they're going to a lake for the weekend. She has not...

We were supposed to go to raging waters today. I canceled. She canceled and I'm very grateful. Which lake are you going to? Nossiomeno. Where's that? Yeah, where is that? By Paso Robles.

Oh, you're going all the way up there. That's by Santa Barbara? No, it's north. It's like inland of Cambria, right? Yeah, something like that. Or am I thinking of... No, it's inland of Pismo Beach. Yeah.

So, yes, it's like three and a half hours or so. Three and a half hours. Yeah. I think we might go to Mammoth again. Oh, yeah? Oh, really? Oh, in September. Is there still snow?

When? The 16th, Andrew Birds, doing some, like, cool outdoor concert. Oh, that's fun. That would be cool, an outdoor concert in Mammoth. You're taking the whole fam, or are you going with your boys? I'm trying to convince. I'm trying to convince Natalie that it's a good idea. Good luck.

Or if it's not, then I'll just take Calvin with. Really? Yeah. You love that. He's your favorite concert buddy. Ride or die. That's really cute. It is cute.

It's very cute. See, if Jeff were to do that, that's the thing is that I suffer from phoma. So Jeff will be like, don't worry. You can hang out at the house. I'll take the kids to the beach. Or I'll take the kids to go see a movie or whatever. I'm like, I can't. I got to go.

The harder sells the drive up to Mammoth for her. What is it? Like six hours? Five. No, it's like five. It's like four and a half five. Yeah. It's, well, with a baby, that's rough.

Not if you stop. Like, stop for lunch. Or you roll like Olivia and Jeff do. They just go at night every time so the kids sleep, whether it's plane or car, plane train or automobile. Right? That's what we do. You guys, I have a question. On Instagram, I keep seeing this, like, at number.

why does everybody have like your threads yeah you have to what number threads you were what? Do you know what threads is? I'm laughing why am I laughing I'm laughing because

no but like it's like there's either like millions or like what does it mean it's the number that you join threat it's the number user you were 100,000 do you have it on yours? Yeah let me look I'm like 100 million

or something. Yeah, I'm 100 million plus. After a certain amount, they just put plus. 100 million plus. That's because I held out a little bit. Is this something I need to know about? Oh, you're 100 million plus. Wait, what is my mom talking about, Rachel?

She just texted me, Rachel's going to be on Kelly and Ryan in a few minutes. Is it a rerun? I mean, it has to be a rerun. Are you on Kelly and Ryan? Are you might be late? It might be a little late. Got to hop on a plane. Okay, so that's the threads.

That's like the Twitter thing you were talking about on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Am I supposed to be on that? I have it and I have not used it once. Me neither. I joined just because I'm

susceptible to, you know what I mean? Okay. Clearly not that tight on the pulse, though, if you're 100 million plus. I don't need to do it, right? I don't even know what it is. Let me ask you guys something. Like, you feel the same as you get older, like your birthday doesn't matter, right?

Oh, yeah. I haven't cared about my birthday in many, many moons. Well, it's just all about kids. Like, all I care is that, like, my kid has her birthday. My kid's happy on my birthday, and they don't care. Does that track? I don't care if my kid's happy on my birthday. Why?

What does my birthday mean to them? Because that would make my birthday knowing my kid is happy. So you plan things for her to do on your birthday? No, but this year, we happen to be going to Universal Studios for one of her friend's birthdays, like on my birthday. And I'm like, that's totally fine because, like, she's happy. Yeah. Right?

But as a parent, I'm asking, like, but you don't, it makes, as long as she's happy. I don't even think of my kids for my birthday. You don't think of your kids for your birthday? No. No. So am I weird? Yeah. We knew that, though, already.

We knew. You're not weird just because of this, but this adds to it. I don't see, see, like, to me, my birthday is just, like, not a thing anymore, and it hasn't been for so long that I don't even see what my kids have to do with it. Okay. Right. Like, my birthday was on Saturday and Calvin had soccer practice. He'd still go to soccer practice. Yeah.

It'd be a regular day for him. They'd probably, like, give me a piece of cake or something. I would hope so. Maybe go to dinner as a family. Now let me ask you guys, what's your preferred birthday celebratory sweet dessert? I like cake. What kind of cake? We actually found this amazing gluten and dairy-free cake because the kids can't eat gluten and dairy.

And so we always get it. It's just from whole foods like a box cake. And it's phenomenal. It's so bomb. So that's your favorite? That with vanilla ice cream. Yeah. What about you, Rob?

I have three options. Okay. Lay it on us. Just like straight up she cake from a grocery store. What? Like Costco cake? Rob? Fancy pants?

Yeah. It's like nostalgic. Just white cake, white frosting. Yeah. Cheesecake factories, red velvet cheesecake. Wait, you are shocked. Fucking blown right now. That was for a little while, too.

That was like a fancy place in the suburbs in Chicago. Oh. No, I'm feeling really good about this. I'm feeling great. And then third was the milk bar. The milk crack pie that we sent you for your birthday. That's my go-to now. Wow.

But I'm also not a huge dessert person other than the crack pie. Yeah. But they don't call it that anymore. What's it called? Just the milk bar pie. Milk bar pie. Yeah. Interesting.

I'm in shock. I'm in shock. I'm in shock. I'm in cheesecake factory red velvet cheesecake. That's like a 40. like a $40 cake. I'm so excited though because now, oh, it's on. I'm so happy.

We're going next year for your birthday. We're taking them to Cheesecake Factory. Are there any dishes you like there for dinner first? Yeah, what would you order to eat at Cheesecake Factory? I didn't even know. I've gotten like the club sandwich. Their menu's huge. It is massive.

No kidding. It's obnoxiously big. I don't know. Interesting. I'm loving this. Me too. Want to know something? It's a glitch in the matrix.

Yeah, for sure. I'm very, I am so excited about it. Like, you're going to get 20 red velvet cheesecakes from Cheesecake Factory from us. This is great news. That I'll make my pizzas with. Oh, we still own him as pizza oven, Olivia. Yeah, we do.

I know. We do. Have you had the Costco sheet cake? Yeah, it's all the same. It's all the same. He would love it. That's right up his hour. That one's the best one, though.

There's like a lot of frosting on it. I don't like a lot of, well, I don't like cake. No, you don't. I do not like cake. There's only certain cakes that I'll be like, okay, but I do not like cake. Like for my 40th, my mom made me a giant Rice Krispy treat in the shape of a cake. I like Rice Kris Kriskis. Homemade.

Homemade. There's a difference. Agreed. Jenny Mullen and Jason Pigs' cake was like a three-layer huge Rice Krispy treat. And that's why I love her so much. For their wedding. That's amazing. But yeah.

Like, I would way rather have. I'm a weird one. And I hate chocolate cake. But I love. How can you hate chocolate cake? I hate chocolate cake. But. I'm not a fan of chocolate cake either.

You're not? I feel like I need to make you guys this one cake. I do not like chocolate cake. Can you do brownie though? Yeah, so that's what I was going to say. I can do brownie. I can only do a package, like a box, box package brownie.

And this is what I do because my great grandmother used to always do that. She put marshmallows in the batter. I love that. And I did that last night, actually. And it's my favorite. I do.

I'll give you some. We're doing. I know what our breakfast is going to be. Yeah, it's fantastic. That I love. And I would have that too, but it has to be a boxed. It cannot be homemade fancy,

way too rich and blah. So when you make brownies, like let's say Breyer and her friends are over, and you make brownies, do you always eat? Do you ever make anything and not eat it? Yes. You do?

Like what? Sometimes when I cook a big meal or something or bake something, I won't want it after I do it. Like give me a, for instance, of something you would bake and not eat. Because this blows my mind. I know, because you can't help but not. You can't help but eat. You can't not not. Because you're an addict.

Right. But to put all your time and energy into something and bake it and then not even eat it, help me. Like if you eat too much of the batter. You're eating along the way as here. Then that counts. Yeah, but not the finished product. I will not eat cake.

I bake because I don't like cake. But you'll bake it. Yeah, of course. Well, it's like a cake for Breyer. I love to bake. If you're making cake, you're not making it for yourself. I love to bake. I love making a crumble or a crisp, if you will.

Big fan. Ooh, you know what I love that you make that I would love you to make again? Yes. What? Like next week? My peach crisp? No. Crumble?

What? The key lime pie. Oh my gosh. I haven't made that in so long. That's my favorite. Briar would love that too. I'll make that. When you make a French silk pie?

No, that's chocolate. That's the only, I'll eat that. What is it? It's like a baker square. It's like a chocolate moose pudding type thing. Yeah, that's true. on top. I would have very little chocolate in that if I could.

And then they do like chocolate shavings on top. Yeah. You know what? I love the cona pie from islands. Love it. Love it. We went to dinner the other night with a couple friends. Yeah. And the bill came and mind you they're new parents, right?

So the bill came and or they came to, they're like, would you guys like any dessert? And they were like, no. And we're like, well, we're going to have it. And they were like, oh, oh, you are. Because we had humongous meals, right? Like, gargantuous steaks and like whatever.

And we're like, but you don't have to stay. Like you have to get home. Like they have a brand new baby, you know? Yeah. And they're like, wait, but you're going to stay and eat dessert? And we're like, yeah. And so they left and we stayed and got dessert. And I feel like we slightly blew their mind.

they were like, what is this thing? Because we're like, there's creme brule. I know. You guys love creme brule. That would never be my go to. They're like, okay, there's creme brule. And we're like, well, we kind of have this thing that no matter what, if there's creme brule, we have to eat it.

And they thought that was bizarre. It is bizarre. You and your creme brule. You guys have gone on missions to find creme brulee, like only. When we see it on the menu, we look at each other and high five. What if it's a bad crumb roulet? I just never had one. Never.

Well, it's kind of hard to mess up creme brule. I've never had a bad creme brulee because here's the thing. The restaurants that serve creme brulee know what they're doing. Like it's not on every menu, you know? It's not on every menu. And I used to love it when like I was a teenager, I think, but I kind of grew out of it and it doesn't do much for me. Interesting. Keyline pie.

I'm going to do that. Okay. That's on the agenda. We'll do a sleepover in a queline pie. I make a mean banana pudding too. I love the banana pudding. Love it. Those are my two favorite.

Yeah, they're good. Yeah. Oh, I need to bake. See, I rather would like bake for people and make them happy through my cooking and baking than like talk to them. Talk to them. Would you say? Then talk to them.

A hundred percent. Just stuff their faces so they can't talk and I don't have to have a conversation. Yeah. I've noticed the people. people tell let's talk this theory out. Rob, I want to know your opinion on this. What I've noticed is the people that do the most cooking, let's say have a party, dinner party, whatever, but the people that are actually doing the most cooking are the most introverted. And it's like they hide behind that or it gives them something to do. They spend all their time in the kitchen. And then there's the ones that like kind

to take the floor and do the social aspect. I think generally that's true. Rachel? I'm cooking. Yeah, I would be too, but I don't always. Huh. But think of anyone who does a lot of cooking. Is that true? My mom does a lot of cooking and she's not introvert. That's true. I mean, I guess I, am I an introvert though? Yeah, we've talked about this. You are. We took a test.

Geez. Here's something I saw my idea of an amazing party, a board party. Let me explain. Everybody brings a board. There's a chips and dip board. There's a cookie board. There's a charcutory board. Everyone comes to the party with a board. I think that's a great idea. You know what would be even more fun is that it's like a board game night. And you bring a board and a board. Yeah, I'm going to pair it with a game night. Sounds like I'd be pretty bored at this. Oh, geez. Yeah, you would have to pair it with board games. Of course. That is my ideal scenario, by the way. I like that idea.

So you are extrovert, like you talk to people. How do you feel about talking on the phone? Do you guys talk on the phone nonstop? I know, but that's like because we're so comfortable. But I mean, people that like are acquaintances, let's say, and not like your core person, people. I'm totally fine with it. I know you are.

Rob. I don't do it. So, I would just like call. There's very few people I would just call to talk to. You cold FaceTime us all the time. That's different with us. That's more for the bit when I do it to you. I know, I know.

A cold FaceTime, though, we've talked about this. Yeah. Not okay, right? It depends on who it is. I cold FaceTime. Yeah, like it's fine. Like, you're people that, you know, cold FaceTime. talking like somebody don't talk to you all the time.

Yeah. No, that's weird. I like to do it sometimes. You definitely do. Rob, right now I dare you. Someone that's not like core people. My friend Joe that I haven't talked to in a couple years. He's going to be talking to him right now.

He might answer. You haven't talked to him in a couple years? He lives out East. Wait, how can we get Rachel to do it next? No way. Yeah, someone. Do not put it on me. He's facing the camera towards me.

I love that Rob. See, but he's just down. Like, and then he just does it. So stupid. So you're calling stupid. No, just what we're doing. Right now, my heart is like palpitating. Like, my palms are sweating.

So I think you're going to ask me to do it to someone. I am. And nothing makes me more nervous. Why don't you do it to someone you're comfortable with that you don't talk to all the time? You're calling again? No. call someone else.

Oh. Who are you calling now? Another cold phone. Who? My friend Matt. Someone that you talk to often, and he's driving. Hey, buddy. Hi, what's up?

Just cold FaceTime and some people. Testin's theory. Why? Is he no answer? Pretty much. Rachel said she hates one people cold FaceTime her. Who's that? Rachel Bilsom from the O.C.

Rachel Bilsom from the O.C. Oh, my God. You're an asshole, Rob. What are you guys doing? I'm in Texas. I just went for a run and then playing a bar and bring big-depth and guitar pedal. I miss you too. I'm going to get out with you.

Oh, bad. Oh. We like Matt. Oh, we like Matt. All right. Well, have a good drive. Okay, cool. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Wait. We appreciate Matt. All right. You're up, Rachel. No, we're done now. We can't follow that.

No, why don't you do someone that you're like comfortable with? Nope, not doing it. Poms are sweaty. You know who we need to talk to is George because he was telling me all these code words. What do you mean? And I didn't know what they meant. And I said, the new lingo? Like the lingo.

What is it? Well, he was telling me all like the terms for like, I guess gay men have like a whole world of codes for what kind of guy you are. And he knows like each one. he's like, oh, he's a FaceTime George. Ask him. Okay. Okay. We got to put it on the mic.

Oh, yeah. Well, I got to start here, though, so you can see me. Oh, are you in bed? Yeah, I'm getting over COVID. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I didn't know you had COVID, babe. I know.

Are you okay? Yeah, I'm better for sure. Oh. I don't even found as raspy as I. Did. You're on FaceTime with me, Rob and Olivia. So don't say anything about Olivia. She was saying that you know all these code words in, like, lingo,

and we wanted to know what they were. Yeah, they're not even code words. They're, like, broadly used terms for, like, different parts of, like, the gay community, I guess. Is this relevant to what you're talking about? Yes. Not at all. Not at all, but Olivia felt it was appropriate to,

just drop this in right now. What do you want to know? Ask me. What do we want to know, Lou? So I want to know. I know he can't hear you. So just I have to translate. Oh, God.

Here we go. Okay. So just tell him. Just tell him. Oh. He was explaining to me that each type of guy. This is the worst version of telephone I've ever heard. You got to wait until she's finished talking before you start saying.

No, I'm laying it to George. I know what you're doing, but... Basically, he's a bear. And then he was telling me... He knows... Okay, go. Okay. Basically, like, each type of guy in the gay community has a different sort of, like, term or, like, animal that relates to what they are.

So it's, like, easy to kind of classify them. I guess in terms of, like, celebrities, like, you could say, like, Zach Elfenochus would be, like, considered a bear because he's hairy and, like, bigger. and then there's otters who are like skinnier and hairy. So that's someone like, I guess an otter would be like Zachary Quinto. Okay. And then there's chasers and chasers go after bears. And then there's silver foxes. And silver foxes are like Jeff.

Yeah, I was going to say Jeff. There's twinks. Twink are like Justin Bieber, I guess. like hairless and usually in their 20s and then there's twonks twunk are like more muscular twinks who are a little bit older and they're like in their 30s

and then there's bear cubs which I guess would be me who is like a mini bear who's like usually younger and not fully bear but like definitely like on his way I mean that's just like your basics and there's probably more but I can't even think of all of them right now.

Okay, so like, so what's Rob? What's Rob? What's Robb? What's Robb? Olivia wants to know. Rob's? I don't know. He's a twink.

Does he have chest hair? No. No. Apparently, according to Rob. You answered for me. Is he an otter? What, George? He's a twunk.

He's a twunk. Yeah, because he's like older than a normal twink. The strings are in their 20s, but he's like, in his 30s or early 40s and he doesn't have any hair so then he's like a twunk. This is all just based on body hair. If he had like if he was hairy he'd be an otter. Okay.

Oh, you have to be hairy to be an otter. Got it. So like what's Brad Pitt? What's Brad Pitt? What's Brad Pitt? He wants to know. He's a daddy. He's a daddy.

Oh, you didn't even mention daddy. He didn't mention that. Oh, I thought I did. I said, I bet he's in silver daddies. Daddies are like very similar. It's just hair color. It's just the hair color is the discerning factor. All right.

I love you so much. We really appreciate your input. And I hope you feel better. Love you. Bye. My favorite is the twink and the twonk. What's a twonk? Someone who used to be a twink.

But now they're a twunk. Oh, my God. Oh, wait, George is calling back. Okay. Missed one. Yes. And then there's Zaddies, like Z. B, A, D-A-D-Y.

Yeah. It's like a super hot daddy. So I guess that would be Brad Pitt's like a Zaddy. Oh, he's a Zaddy. A Zaddy, yeah. Okay. Now, do you have to be older to be a Zaddy or could like a late 30-year-old be a Zaddy or a 40-year-old in their 40s be a zaddy? I would say like 40, 45 and up could be a.

Okay. Copy that. You're also a daddy is a state of mind, but I think Zaddy is like 45 up. Amazing. That is a state of mine. All right. Love you, bye. Oh my gosh. That's amazing.

Okay. Well, you guys, I really have enjoyed catching up on our past week. Same. My favorite takeaway is that Rob loves Red Velvet Cheesecake from Cheesecake Factory. Same. This is exciting news. How do you feel about Red Velvet? Okay, so I said I hate cake, but I'm like okay with cupcakes, which is weird, right? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

I like, yeah, I like cupcakes, too. Oh my God, you guys are so annoying. I was wanting to show last night that had cupcakes. And? I thought I wanted to cook cakes. You guys know it's the same thing, right? Just small. Yeah.

I know, but I don't like a lot of icing. I do, though. He does. I don't. My favorite cupcake is the banana cupcake from sprinkles. It's so good. Or like a carrot cake cupcake. Like, I like, you know what I mean?

All right. What were you going to say about Red Velvet then? I don't know that it's fine I like cream cheese icing though you know red velvet's just chocolate it has a little bit of cocoa powder it's not a full chocolate cake so yes

I'm aware I'm aware I don't love red velvet red velvet's my favorite but I hate chocolate cake I don't I like lemon too I like lemon I like you know I love orange flavored things I'm weird

I love chocolate orange because my favorite thing is like a chocolate covered orange peel dark chocolate, love it. Seas candy, though. You know how we feel. We feel good. We feel great.

All right. See everyone next week. Okay, guys. That was a hate gum podcast.