Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Hejsa and Alie Christensen

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Rachel’s former mother- and sister-in-law and mother-daughter writing duo Alie and Hejsa Christensen are the guest broads on this week's bonus episode! They catch up with Rachel and Olivia and discuss their recently published book “Stealing John Hancock”, what it’s like writing love scenes together, the importance of mothers having their own sense of self and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or, wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes when the way inside of all these thoughts are swirling, round and round inside, to join us on this journey as we take a little ride.

We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that'll make you cry. We'll talk about death because people die. Hello. Here we are. Hello. Welcome to broad ideas, ladies.

Hello. Hi. Very happy to be with you. We are so happy to have you. So for those who don't know, obviously, I know both of you very well. Yeah. We go way back. Way back.

Yes. Way way. And I'm so thrilled because, you know, the reason that we're speaking to you today in particular is, you are having a very a labor of love an amazing incredible work of art Hayden I can't take any credit for that way but your first book is being published and released congratulations thank you thank you so we can't wait to talk to you about all of it now obviously I've known about this for a very long time this has been in the works for a very long time. How many years ago did you start writing this? So on this

particular book, we've been working on this book for five years, five years. Five years. Right. Okay. And But it's been in the publishing process for about two and a half years. Yes. Yeah. Is that how long it takes? Yes. Well, I think COVID slowed things down a bit. Okay. So they asked for a little extra time with it because of that, but it does take a long time. Is this your guys' first book? It's our first novel. Yay. Yay. It's very exciting.

And the release date is, is it the, tell me again? The release date is October 1st. First. October 1st. So I think that is from where we are now, nine days. Wow. Okay. We are counting down.

Yes, official release date, October 1st. So first, let's just tell us a little bit. Tell us the title, you know, what the book's about. And then we'll get into all the other good stuff, too. Okay. Well, the book is called Stealiener. John Hancock, and our names on it are H&A Christensen. And it is a literary thriller. So it's pretty fast-paced book. And our main character is J.P. Hancock. And he's in his 20s and a little

bit directionless at this point in his life. He keeps trying different things and they don't work out. And he's from a small town and he's sort of fixated on the American dream, trying to make something of himself, but it's just never quite happening. And he's feeling kind of down in the dumps about it. But then things get a whole lot worse when a cyber criminal utilizes this clever way to meld mortgage fraud and identity fraud to essentially steal houses, which is something you can actually do. This is actually a real thing that actually happened. We started this whole process when we read an article about a house stealing scheme. I've seen those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We just thought it was crazy when we found out about them.

But anyway, this cyber criminal decides that far better than just not getting caught for the crime is to frame. someone else and have that person caught so he doesn't have to spend his life looking over his shoulder wondering if the police are coming. So he assumes J.P.'s identity and frames him for the crime. And J.P.'s life totally unravels. And he has a police detective, Naya Gray, hot on his heels, convinced that he did it. And he ends up pairing up with a brilliant, quirky hacker to try to clear his name. And that's sort of, yeah, that's sort of where it goes. And we use the idea of and identity theft story to explore kind of how we each construct our own identities and and what constitutes our happiness and what makes us who we are, how we construct our sense of self.

So that's the underlying theme. But it's through this very fast-paced caper. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a blockbuster movie to me personally. We've had a few people say that. I think it is. You never know. When I was reading it, I thought the same thing. I was like, oh, I can see it. And it's so real and relatable because so many people have been victims of identity theft. Oh, so true. Oh, yeah, myself included. But what drew you to that article, to that story? Why? So I think one, we have both been touched by identity theft. I think most people I know have in one form or another, even if it was just a close call. But also when we read the article, It was just the idea that someone could steal, one, this giant immovable object that it seems just ridiculous that it could be stolen.

And also, especially this day and age when we're, we tend to be very house poor and like it's most people's greatest investment, if they're lucky enough to own house. The impact that would have on a person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So why do I remember you writing that I thought you were writing this like 15 years ago? I guess was it? No.

Okay. Explain. So, well, Allie has a very long history with, so we, we started writing a book together that is still unfinished a while ago. Okay. Maybe that's what you're thinking about. Yes. It was called chasing the wind.

Yeah. Oh, yes. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. And actually, to be honest, I love that book. Another guy with a lot of problems. Yeah.

There's a theme here, guys. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, Stealing John Hancock is very strong women in it. So maybe we go, I don't know what we're drawn to there. But yeah.

Well, yeah. The guy with the problems and the women that are really strong. Yeah. But Allie's first go at writing a book. How old were you? Oh, I've been writing most of my life, I guess, and I actually started writing a novel when I was 10 years old. Oh, wow.

Didn't quite finish it. But I was always drawn to write. and I would sit under this big willow tree in my backyard, and I was kind of a book nerd. Yeah. Well, there's also a children's book that you always referenced that I know you wrote for the kids when they were young. Yeah. Yeah, a few. Well, yeah, a few. She used to read us her own children's books when we were growing up, and they were fantastic.

Well, clearly why there's so many strong, amazing women in your books and writing because of you two sitting right there. I want to know, is it hard for you to, do you normally call her Allie? Or is it like you're in your professional working mode? Yeah, it's professional. It's professional. So it's professional working modes. Whenever we're with our publishers, it doesn't seem strange to me. I call her Allie all the time.

However, I don't always call her mom even privately. Like it's usually, it's usually moved. Yeah. Yes, it is. explains cute. Or a moo-moo with the grandkids. Yeah. Yeah.

Then when she became a grandmother, it turned to Moomoo. And, yeah. I've heard this. Yeah. Yeah. Because, Breyer will talk about Mo-M-M-M-M-M-O. Okay. Yeah.

And I'm always like, yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. For everyone listening who might not know, it's a mother-daughter writing duo. I don't know. We didn't say that in the beginning. Oh, that's true.

Yeah. But yeah. At least my mom. That's right. All-e's your mom. It's fine to be one of the most incredible things about you guys having a book come out as writing partners, a mom and daughter duo. You don't hear that often. No.

It's unusual. Yeah. It's been really special. Yeah. Yeah. It's been wonderful. I mean, you know, the icing on the cake is to actually have the book published. But working together has just been really great.

Yes. And Allie is the person who inspired. me to write in the first place. So obviously she's been a writer in her own mind since she was 10, starting her first novel then. But then she was also a corporate writer, a speech writer. She wrote articles for newspapers. And so she's always been a writer. But I had no intention of going in that direction until she talked me into it. So she's wrong on you. Well, she had her own path. She had just finished the master's degree. in environmental geography, specializing in sustainable forestry.

So that's a little different. That's a little different. Yeah, and it was actually, we started writing together the summer after I finished my master's degree. And at the time, I was doing taekwondo very seriously. And I was what they call in Canada a carded athlete, which means the government essentially pays you to train now. And I was competing around the world. She was, what? Yeah, like incredible. I'm going to shoot your horn for you. you, but Haysa was incredible in Taekwondo and also trampoline, huge. I mean, there's nothing she can't do. Like one day, she was like, I want to try aerial skiing. And I think Ali goes to Lake Placid. Yeah, goes to Lake Placid and they try it. And she just killed it. I mean, there's nothing Haysa can't do.

And I know, Olivia's face right now, her mouth is like on the floor. Is that why Briar is a good athlete? Yeah, well, she definitely gets it from your side of the family, not me or mine. I attributed it all to Auntie Haysa and her dad and everyone. Of course. But yes, anti-hasa is incredible. Okay, sorry. Oh, well, thank you, Rachel. My landings in Ariel scheme were pretty atrocious, by the way. But thank you. But the twists were great until I hit the ground. Yeah. But anyway, after that summer, so I really wanted to keep pursuing Taekwondo. And I really wanted to dedicate a lot of time to that. I didn't want to go get a, quote, real job at that point in time. And I also met my husband, my now husband that summer. And he was, he was, was very much stationed abroad. He's a super yacht captain. So he was sort of all over the world and we were meeting up in different places. And I remember just having this heart to heart with Ali saying, I don't know what to do. I want to dedicate more years to taekwondo and I want to be able to go

see my now husband in different places. And he was often stationed in Spain and I could go and train with the Spanish national team that was working well. And I said, but mentally I'm going to go insane if I don't have another outlet. And I think I was I working on a, on, a screenwriting? You were doing screenwriting stuff. Right. Right. Yes. Yeah. And she said, well, come join me in screenwriting. And I said, I know nothing about screenwriting. And she showed up at my house the next day with this huge stack of books. And she's like, you're good at studying. You enjoy school. Here, go read all these. And it kind of starting from there. So, yeah, yeah. Such a crazy path, you know. And then I did eventually go back to school for writing. I went back into the master's degree in creative writing. That's when you were in

BC, right? Didn't you go? Yes, yeah, at UBC. But it was an optional residency program, which essentially means you do most of it virtually, although you have to go in in person in the summer, which is great because I was in my 30s at the time. So it's great for people going back to school later in life. Because by that point in time, you usually have a lot of other commitments. I was a mother, and you don't always have the flexibility to go be on campus full time. Yeah, tell me about the commitments. Yeah, four kids deep over there. It took a lot of years for me to circle back to writing.

Right, right. Broad Ideas is supported by NextEvo Naturals. So as I've gotten older and I've had a kid, sleep is not something that happens to me. I've tried everything. So what I found really works and can relax my body where I get some sleep is CBD. But not only any CBD, Next Evo Naturals developed smart sorb technology, clinically proven to help your body absorb CBD four times better than regular CBD oil because oil just doesn't mix with your water-based body.

It works faster too. So when you're trying to get sleep, you won't waste time wondering, is it working? Because it does really fast. Get a better night's rest and a better day tomorrow with products from NextEVey. naturals. For up to 25% off subscription orders of $40 or more, use promo code ideas at nextevo.com. That's N-E-X-T-E-O-O-com promo code ideas. I just want to say one thing because you brought up your husband and he's a yacht captain. And I remember in the beginning, you know, you guys have to spend a lot of time apart.

And I would always be like, how do you do that? You know, like, I mean, how can you spend a month and a half or six, you know, six weeks apart or whatever? And as I've gotten older, I'm like, you have the key to success. You know, it's funny because, so my husband, Giles, we get along great. We're 20 years together now. And he's wonderful. He's wonderful. But he's fantastic.

We have a wonderful relationship. And he left yesterday for the Netherlands, and I'm not going to see him for two months. So it's not seeming like a wonderful setup today at this point in time. But I think there is. is something to it to having time apart because it makes you very intentional about the time that you do have together to make sure that you're getting into positive relationship patterns and you're treating the other person the way you like want to treat them. It makes you like a little more intentional about those things. So I think that sort of helps set us up for for a healthier relationship than

maybe if we were together all the time. Although some people hear about what we do and they're like, oh, that's crazy. I couldn't do that. But when you are together, you're together all the time. Yes, because he is off work then. We get to go have a lot of fun. And you did that with having a child as well. So, you know, that came into play. Yeah. I mean, it was a little crazy when she was younger.

So she's 14 now, Taya. She's in high school. And I sort of had the idea going into motherhood that it wasn't going to change anything. I was going to work the same, play the same, travel the same. And the reality is it's really not like that. So I think our first trip, she was two months old and we were going over to Germany because that's where my husband was stationed then. And I was on these constant long haul flights and she was colloquied. You have to tell the story about when we had our big meeting.

Oh my goodness. Yeah. Okay. So we spent a few months in Germany her first year. And we had an original screenplay that we wrote then that was auctioned. And this was like super exciting for us. We had a director. We had a director.

We had a production company, everything. So we were doing these conference calls. You were in Toronto. I was in L.A. at that time. You were in L.A. Okay, and they were in L.A. So I was conferencing in from Germany, and I hired a nanny. And the first nanny I hired lasted a few days.

And then she quit without a much explanation. I'm like, okay, so I need a nanny with a little bit more experience. But I think it was during the meeting. It was. It was during the meeting. So I got this nanny with like 10 years experience. But in retrospect, it was 10. years, but she'd only been with two families. And at that point in time, Taya cried a lot because she

was colicky and some babies are just colicky. And I said to her, you know, I have this really important meeting. She might cry. And I don't expect you to be able to stop her from crying. Just comfort her the best you can and keep her safe because that's all you can do. And so the meeting for us with this, like this huge deal with, like, it was with Paris Berkeley was the director and, you know, it was all like very exciting. And she interrupted in the middle of the meeting. And I was like, okay, guys, I'm sorry. I've got to, you know, this is the reality of being working and being mother. I'm just dying to say the punchline. Yeah. And she's like, there's something wrong. I can't stop her from crying. And I'm like, I know it's okay. It's all right. You can't stop her from crying. I can't either. Just comfort

her the best you can and just keep her safe. What did she do? And she quit. Right then. And she quit. Yes. Yeah. She walked out. Yeah. During the maybe? Yeah. No. Yeah. She just gave you the baby back and was like, I'm out.

Yeah, she said she couldn't do it. She said she couldn't do it. You would think like a German, like nanny, you know, you just picture like this, you know, I don't know. You walk around with the kid while it cries. You go outside. You go outside and you jiggle it. You jiggle it. You shake it.

No, but it brings up another really interesting thing is like, okay, a working mother, right? Yep. So this, now, first off, Allie, who had four children, who I've never known anyone who can do more than what you do and what you've done and how you raise the kids and how you handmade everything or churned butter or whatever it was. I mean, she's done it all. She literally. Literally. Literally. Like all the stories.

See, that's a whole other episode just to talk about everything that you have done in your life. So it brings up two things. Working as a mother, right? And coming into this, now, Allie in your 70s, Hesa in your 40s, and what that's like. So there's two different things, but really, I think, important and amazing as women. But yeah, I just want to touch on that a little. So let me say something just in case Ali doesn't come forth and say this. So when I was younger and she was raising four kids and, you know, she's in the active parenting stage.

We're pretty spread out in age, but she was still actively parenting. all of us. She was working as a corporate writer full time, and she basically did not sleep because she never missed, like she would never miss a hockey game or whatever it was. She was always there. She was assistant coach of whatever team and whatever, but she would just work all night. She just did not sleep. And that is insane and should not. The world should not be that way, though. It shouldn't be like that. No. But that is what she did. And you still don't sleep, but. Do you sleep? I want to know, do you sleep? Did you sleep? Because it's hard. Which one of us?

Both of you. Like, there's a lot. I mean, we're both mothers, obviously, you know, Rachel is. But there's so much to do in a day. And my husband doesn't sleep. Like, he gets up every day at 3.30 and starts working. And I'm like, that's not. And he's like, he's fine. He feels good and he's working. I need a lot of sleep. You do. And she's. sleeps well. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, did you sleep doing all of that? So I sleep. Well, I'm at a stage in life now where it's more difficult to sleep. I could have slept when I was younger, but I couldn't, but I didn't have the time. But now it's that, oh, I actually have the time to sleep. How come I'm not sleeping? But it's funny having a nocturnal writing partner because she is coming up with ideas at two o'clock in the morning. Right. When you're fast asleep.

Yes. She used to call me with them going, oh, I just have this great idea for what this character can do with whatever. And I have learned, what do I do now? Turn off the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, my phone is off at night. Yes, which is important.

And what about? And now I write them down. You know, I think that in a lot of different areas in life, there is ageism. And there's a lot of messaging. Like, I remember even growing up, my mom would say, like, oh, I wanted to be an actress, but then I had you guys. And so I remember always being like, well, you could have kept going, right? But a lot of times there's this kind of, you, oh, you become a mom. Everything else should be put on hold and focus on your children.

And there's also, like, if you haven't done it by this age, you're probably not going to do it. what have you guys fought against to make this book happen with that? So I think it has probably been the hardest for Allie, I'd say, because, well, part of it is having four kids, too. I mean, you were so insanely busy. But I didn't feel like there was anything in particular that was holding me back. I felt I could do it at all. Yeah. It's a lack of time.

You know. Yeah. But there came a point where I really wanted to focus on creative writing. And so I had to step back from our business. And my husband and myself, we owned the business. So it was a little hard to step out of it. But it came a point where, you know, I'm in my 60s. And this is what I really want to do with the rest of my life is to focus on this aspect of creativity. I mean, a lot of things that I was doing, I felt were very creative. But this is, This was really the direction I wanted to go. And, you know, in my 60s, I thought, yeah, I can do this, you know. Let's go for it. Yeah. But going back to it, though, so I know, obviously, her attempt to write a novel when she was 10, that that was never really going to get finished.

But that dream was there then. And then I can remember when I was a teenager, we took a trip to Honduras once. And it was a rare opportunity where she didn't have a lot of the demands of daily life on her. and she was one of the happiest I've ever seen her, and she would just lay in her hammock all day, every day, drinking mango juice, writing, just constantly writing. And she was so happy, like working on a novel. She was so happy doing it.

But it really took her till she was in her 70s to get to the point where... No, 60s. Well, 60s, yeah, because the publishing time until... Well, yeah, until she could really dedicate the time to actually finishing a novel. And I think, obviously, men, women, and everybody has demands on them through life. But I think it's... Women especially.

Yeah, they are more of the brunt of them. Are, you know, given responsibilities that, you know, you have to take care of the kids. But, I mean, you love doing it, but it takes a lot of time. Yeah. And, you know, you make the meals. And there's a lot expected of women. For sure. But I think it's such a beautiful message.

Like, first of all, for you pursuing it, Allie, even, you know, a little later in life and wanting to do it and pursuing it is amazing. And obviously the book coming out is such an accomplishment. And Hesa, I'll never forget, you always saying, you know, being a mother, obviously that's always number one. And you both are incredible mothers and always kind of giving me the message that you have to still have your own sense of self and something for yourself outside of that, which was like so important for mental health and everything else. And you've always said that. And it always stuck with me, hence why we're here right now. doing this podcast.

No, but it's true. Yeah. You know. I think that's really important for your kids to see as well, that you still do things that are for you and that you enjoy your work or, you know, that you pursue things that make you happy. Right. I would have to say that I enjoyed my occupation also.

There was a lot of creative aspects to it. But as far as the creative writing, that was something that I always knew I wanted to come back to. Right. But we were nervous. Don't you remember when it was first time to? start sending our manuscript out, we're like, well, what are people going to think about a mother daughter writing team and you're in your 70s? And we did have some trepidation about how that would be perceived. And I don't really know how people perceive it. I don't know is the answer. So I mean,

our publisher thought it was great. Thought it was great. Yeah. It's funny. So it was Ali's birthday back in June and I did a social media post on Instagram. And I thought, you know, a lot of women hide their age or they, you know, like say their yes. younger than they are. They don't want to put that out there. And I was like, are you okay if I just put that out there? Because I think it's important for people to see that you're accomplishing things in your 70s and that your passion, you're still pursuing your passion and you're achieving your goal at that point. And then there's really no limit on how long you have for these things. You just keep doing it as long as you're driven to do it. Yeah. I think that's so great. It really

is an inspiration to even young girls, you know, looking up. And what you said before, you know, Breyer will always be like, if she is grumpy that I have to work and I can't pick her from school or whatever, it's good to show younger kids, you know, an example of like, no, mommy works, but be positive about it. Like, you like to work. But also, you know, there's other reasons. But it's a really nice example for her to be like, no, I get to work. And I think Drew Barrymore said that once, like how she frames it to her children. Like, I get to go to work, which is just a nice thing to kind of put into their head. But my other other, My other question, do you guys feel, or did you feel any pressure because you're related, obviously, to Hayden?

Did that factor in it all with, you know, embarking on this? Well, on the novel itself? Just in general, writing. I know it was like film writing before. Did that have a play? Well, we actually started with different last names. Oh, we did. I forgot about that.

So we were actually, I forgot. That was a while ago. We were worried about how that was used. Yeah. Yeah. So I never changed my last name when I got married. So but I used my husband's last name. Writing. When for screenwriting. Yeah. Because we were worried about how that would be perceived. Right. So that plays into that a bit. Yeah. Because we. But why? Like what? Why? Well, because we wanted our work to stand on itself. Got it. The work to speak for its. and not have anything around it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that makes a lot of sense. And it did speak for itself. And you know, and you guys have found success. And now, you know, with your novel and everything else. But it is an interesting thing because, you know, you did feel the need to do that because you wanted that to be the main focus. Yeah.

Yeah. And our publisher didn't know the association. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, in the novel world, it didn't really. No. It's more.

So in screenwriting, it's very common to have multiple screenwriters. on a script. Like, it's probably the norm by the time something, you know, actually gets to a production stage that a lot of writers have gone through it. But in novel writing, it is not as standard. And in fact, when I was doing my master's degree, I remember going to one of the professors there and asking. Oh, yeah. Yeah, do you remember that? I was actually looking for a different professor and I was going to ask if I could co-write a creative fiction piece with Ali. And he wasn't there in his office and there was somebody else there. I won't say the name. And he's like, well, what's the question, maybe I can help you with it. And so I told him the question. And he's like,

well, that's impossible. You can't do any literary level of fiction with a co-writer. And I just remember saying, okay, thanks. And then leaving because I thought, well, there's no point in having this conversation with him because we're already doing it. I know it's possible. And if you're speaking to someone who doesn't even think it's a possibility, then you're not having the conversation with the right person. Wow. Well, the point was, though, that a writer has a voice. So how do you have a voice with more than one person? But we have developed a co-voice. Yeah. Well, you can also you meld your writing styles and you kind of, like, you learn to come up with something that is uniquely the two of you. Right. But so we sort of got off topic there.

The point of it was that we used H&A Christensen for our writing because we wanted to seem as unified as possible. So if we have the same last name and just do the first initials, Like our perception was that in the novel world, the bigger danger is seeming not unified for a book because people want to see, as Ellie was saying, a cohesive voice in a book, which I think we have. Well, I mean, mother, daughter, you know, we have talked about this before

that once a child comes from you, you literally like you share... What did you say? Stem cells. Oh, sure. The stem cells from the child break off and go into mom and moms break off and go into baby. So you literally share a brain now. Yeah. Yes. Just connected. Well, we actually think a lot alike in what we write and how we like to express

things. So we do have our difficulty sometimes, but yeah, we have creative differences. Sure. But it's like every TV show with great characters, there's multiple writers writing those characters. Right. Yes. Yeah. Or there's many. There's men writing women a lot, like in TV or whatever, and they're going through all these things. And I'm just like, honey. Oh, yeah. How was it for you guys to write the men? Yeah.

You know, okay. You're like, the women are a lot stronger. Yeah. You know men. Well, do you want to know what's funny? I'm just thinking back to our early screenwriting days. We wrote something and the feedback we got on it was that it was, what was it? That was a chick flick.

Do you remember this? And by the way, that word was used as an insult. So, I mean, I love chick flicks, but that was used as an insult. And I thought, well, that's odd because it's not a chick flick. It's an adventure movie. Now, we're going back a number of years here. So I'm hoping this has changed. And our characters were female.

And then I realized it's because our characters were female. So I never get the feeling when we're writing men that we're writing, quote, a man. You're just writing a person. And I think that that's true. when we're writing women as well, you're writing a person. Although there are, like, for both men and women, there are some things that you throw in and you try to have an understanding of what that character's past was

and how their gender has affected the way they've experienced the world. But we're all just people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And an adventure film with female leads is still an adventure film. It doesn't make it a chick flick, you know? We're all just people. I think now in this day and age, it obviously, with everything that's happened,

and me too and everything else. Like, women are really coming forward and they're more focused on making the films with the strong women characters. And it's, you know, it's a... What's the word I'm looking for? It's like the standard thing that they want to do. That's not the right word.

But anyway, you get what I'm saying. I think it's so cool that you have such strong female characters in this book because you both are obviously such strong females yourselves. Yeah. Well, thanks. You know, it wasn't intentional.

We didn't sit there and say, okay, we have to write strong women. It was just how they evolved. But, I mean, our Erica character. Eric is a lot of fun. She's really good. Yeah. She sort of lives in the underbelly of society. And she's like this MIT PhD computer genius.

She lives in a silo. Yeah, that she's converted into her. Yes. Yes. Not a farm silo. Oh, okay. But she's converted it into this office. grid base.

And yeah, she's a really interesting character. But then also our police detective, Corporal Nia Gray. So she is in the RCMP, which I think maybe people outside of Canada don't know. It's our federal police. It's like our FBI. So the acronym is actually for Royal Canadian Mounted Police. But then I think people think of... Think they're on horses or something.

Think they're on horses in little red uniforms. That's exactly what you think of when you hear it mounted. Yeah, there are federal police. And so she's in there. And the RCMP has been under a lot of scrutiny in Canada in recent years for sexism within the institution. And there has actually been a class action lawsuit filed by women who have been victimized by this. And so when we were writing a female RCMP character, we drew on the stories of a lot of women and what their experience was like. And we actually interviewed RCMP women. Yeah. Oh, wow. So we tried to. incorporate that into her struggle, like how she goes about doing her job and tracking down criminals while dealing with this on the work front. So I feel like the movie, I see the movie as like, yes, the book, but it's YouTube. Like you two, they're like a Nancy Myers film.

Like, you know. Right? The mom-daughter. The mom-daughter duo interviewing the people and doing Taekwondo. I mean, come on. Doing it all, which you do. You know, the identity fraud, this just, I heard those stories of people taking houses and I was like, oh my God, people can do that. One of my dearest friends, her and her husband saved up, you know, their whole life, they were going to buy their first house. And they got their huge, like for them, huge, well, for anyone actually, huge, huge, huge downpings. for their home, they found a home, they went to buy it, and they got frauded for their deposit, wire fraud. Oh.

Their whole entire life savings. Their whole savings gone. Oh, really? This just happened a few months ago. It's absolutely devastating. They've worked their whole entire lives to be able to buy a home. And just like that, boom, gone. And so when they say to you, like, have you talked to the person today?

are you sure this is the person you're wiring your money to? All of those things. A lot of times it's like you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and you don't realize that they're setting up all these precautions because people's homes, not only their homes are being taken with deeds, they're signing over their deeds without knowing it. And then the wire fraud. Did you guys hear a ton of these stories?

So many. So many. And, you know, prior to embarking on this, I had no idea. Obviously, you hear a lot about identity theft, but to the level of stealing someone's down payment for a house or the entire mortgage for the house. Yeah, we have a couple in the book that are devastated because they bought a house that wasn't actually for sale. Yeah.

And their lives are just devastated. Yeah. It's so, it felt evil to me. Like, it felt so, like when that happened, it hurt my heart so bad for them that. I couldn't shake it for like a month. I know. You called me right when you found. I did.

I was in utter shock. Like my heart hurt. I was like, it was one of those things where you're like, you hear that happens, but you don't think it's going to happen to you or anyone you know. Yeah. But it's such a level of financial loss that it's life changing.

Yeah. That's crazy that you knew, you know, that something's so similar in real life. I know. Because when she was reading, you know, about the book. stealing John Hancock, she was like, this just happened.

And then I remembered the story because you don't think this is going to happen. And it's such an interesting concept because it is real. It does happen, even though it seems so unfathomable. Yes. Even the smallest amount of identity theft. And you've been a victim of identity theft. And I was about eight months pregnant, nine months pregnant, something like that. You were definitely pregnant with her second.

pregnant and my identity got stolen and someone got arrested in my name and they got multiple arrests in my name. Oh my goodness. And when I found out about it, the cops were like, you have to go clear your name because if you get pulled over anything happens, you will be put in jail. And I was like, I started crying, freaking out because I'm like, I'm nine months pregnant. And they're like, they don't care. If you get pulled over, you're going to jail until you can prove that that wasn't you. Rachel, I pulled her with me.

We went and spent days at the courthouse with detectives. We did. Trying to clear my name. And it was such a process. And I was thinking like, what, they're going to, I'm going to have my baby in jail. So sorry about that. I am too. It was a nightmare.

But people can, you know, they can just get your address. They can. Yeah. It's crazy. It seems so easy. I mean, I don't know how easy. But like, easy enough where it happens all the time, which is. Yeah.

So once. thing we learned is that not always, but most of the time with identity theft, usually the victim actually gives some form of information away. It's like, everybody knows fishing, but there's also there's fishing, vishing, depending on if it's by phone, do tell, by text, or by email. What? And that's the actual terms for it? Those are the actual terms. We would not make up something like that. But actually, Ali's uncle was a victim as well when he was in his 80s. Yes, little old Italian man, and he received one of those IRS phone calls that you're going to be arrested and you owe these back taxes. And I don't know why he actually did this, but he went out and got what's called a green dot card.

I don't know. They sell them at pharmacies where he lived, but it's some kind of prepaid card that you load. And then if you give someone the number to the card, then they can claim it back. And he had to get $8,000 worth of these cards and called them with the numbers and lost all his savings. And just this little. Yeah. Was it Jesus in a brother? Is that you talking about brother?

Yeah. Okay. I was going to say because I feel like she would tell him like, yo, what are you doing? They prey on the elderly too. So we were talking. I was talking to his daughter. And he was actually scared that someone was going to come to his door. They told them they were going to come that night and arrest him if he didn't pay right away.

Yeah. So he didn't tell anybody until after he did it. Yeah. But he immediately went out because he thought he was about to be arrested. And that night he said that he was just, you know, lying there waiting for someone to come to the door. Yeah. Oh, God. But this was also, this was 10 years ago.

So I'm hoping that people are. a little more aware now, but I don't know. You're shaking your head. Yeah, because they called my husband's mom and dad. And, you know, they luckily called us and we're saying this is what they're calling and saying. And, you know, a lot of people that are older in age don't necessarily know that the IRS doesn't call. Right? Yeah.

So they're going to send a letter. Like those are the kind of things. Like if you get a call, if you get a text message. if you get an email, none of that is legit. You're being fished, missed, or wished, or whatever it is. Yeah, but you know who I feel so bad for? Any legitimate calling, if my bank ever has to call me, after all the research we've done from stealing John Hancock, I don't think so.

Right, right. But then going in person, right? Yes, yeah. I think most people have become fairly savvy now, because, you know. They're skeptical, hopefully. It's pretty public, all these scams. But people fall for them all the time.

People are still falling like crazy. Because they keep changing them a little bit. So there's one thing here in Ontario that I don't quite know how this works. Do you guys get called by duct cleaners multiple times a week? Air ducts. This happened when I was just working up there, Doug, my driver, called about the duck cleaning. He's like, I got a bunch of chickens and then hung up.

Like he was joking with him. So did you need any duck cleaning? He's like, I got a bunch of chickens. Anyway, it was my first time experiencing this, but it was up there, so not here. That is exactly what I did. Well, because Rachel knows we live out in the country. I used to have a lot of ducks. We have like an acre pond in the backyard. And these people call multiple times week. And I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it is a scam. There are legitimate duct cleaners, but they're not the people who are calling you. And I was getting so bored of the call, so I thought, I might as well have some fun with it. And my daughter, Teo was there too. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I couldn't really use having my ducks

clean. They're such. And he's like, oh, great, great. I'm like, yeah, they're such filthy animals. And they're trying to explain it to me. I was like, no, no, please come on over with six of them. On the pond. Yeah. I'll do chickens too. Yeah. And also, a note to people, if you want pet ducks, Hesa can attest to this, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Well, with my friends who got scammed, an email. They copied the actual escrow people's email verbatim so that you think it's coming from your escrow company. Oh, that's so crazy. Wow. That's funny that they copied it verbatim because I've noticed with a lot of them that there are spelling mistakes in the email or grammatical mistakes. And kids, this is the actual real reason you just stay in school is to be able to determine the

really emails from the big one. Yeah. Because most of them don't bother to copy something verbatim and make sure it's all correct. Like a lot of times there are errors in there and I'm just looking at them going knowing you two, especially Ali, she's going to be like, oh yeah, the grammar police. Yeah. I'm editing it. She's going to call them up and be like, you might want to change these lines. Oh, well, it's such a fascinating topic. And I have to say, so I haven't read the book in entirety yet because I'm very old-fashioned. I like a proper book in my hand, you know. And I did start it digitally.

And I know, I have to wait another week. But I already have mine pre-ordered on Amazon. As you know, I did it in the kitchen in front of you, my witness. But I started it. And it's so funny, some of the similarities, because obviously I know you so well. And I can, like, pick up on some things. But I can't wait to have the book in my hand to really read it. And the thing I'm super into, what do you call them?

Twist. twist that you're not going to mention because you're not having spoilers because you have to read it for yourself. It is worth it. Is there any love in it or is it mostly just? Yeah. Is there any like romance to it? There's a bit. You know, I have to say not really. Not a lot. You know, that is one thing about having your mother as a writing partner. That's what I was going to ask about. Yeah. Yeah. That's not. Yeah. What's going to happen if you guys ever have to tackle any of that, like a love scene? That's what I'm There is the occasional scene that we have to write for something that we don't feel comfortable writing together. And usually one of us writes it and then hands it to the other person without saying a word.

And the other person will just write over it and make changes without saying a word. There is one section in this book. Yeah. Okay, good. Because I'm a sucker for all that stuff. So like, I'm always like, you know, searching for that. Like between the lines or whatever. But so I do enjoy.

Well, there's definitely that tension there. Yeah. Which I think you need, right? Yeah, I wish I'm finding that really fascinating. Like, how do a mom and daughter approach that? Because whenever my mom talks to me about anything, I'm like, no, mom. Oh, gosh. And you guys know my mother is way too much of an open book, like, trying to talk about that kind of stuff where it's just like, Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Having your mom.

Yes. I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't be able to read your mom's book with you. I would be able to make my mom's book. I would be able to actually. You would. You would. You all would. I would not. But that just speaks to the point of, yeah, like love scenes or anything like that.

You're not going to be like, okay, mom and he unbuttoned in your shirt. And you're just like, oh, okay, stop, stop. Yeah. If there's ever anything we're uncomfortable writing together, one person writes that scene, then hands it to the other person. And you never speak of it and it's just written down. And we never speak of it. Yeah. I think that's the only way to go about it.

I fully, fully support that. Yeah. Well, we cannot wait. The book out October 1st. You can get, you can order it on Amazon or I like to support, you know, the local bookstore. Yes, support your local bookstore if you can. Yes. That's easy for you. The Blue Heron and Uxbridge, we love. Yes. Yeah. That's where our book launch is. Our book launch is there on October 23rd. All welcome if you happen to be from Uxbridge. But if you're traveling. It's such a sweet bookstore. Oh, and we just found out. Oh, yeah. To me. Yeah. So just ten minutes before we said. down with you. We just found out that it's being published in Italian, too. So it's going to be translated into Italian. A publisher in Italy has purchased it. Grandma must be like ecstatic. I don't know if you told her yet. She's so excited. And also the police officer that I mentioned before, Niagara-Rae, she's also from Italy as well. So from a small town, not far from where my grandfather

was from. Yeah. Yes. So we've got the family connection back to there. Yeah. We're very excited about the Italian rights. That is so cool. She's flying up for the launch. Did you know that? You did tell me that. She's 90. Yeah. Yeah. She's 96 years old. She's flying up for their book launch. Allie's mom. Wow. Yeah. How proud. She's amazing. How proud is she. Another incredible woman. I mean, that lady is. And I wonder if it'll continue with your daughter. Is she interested in writing, he said? She has actually started writing a book with her best friend. They haven't gotten very far, but she is a full-on reading addict. So she goes through probably a novel a week.

So she reads a lot. But she's also, she's super into art. She's a runner too. She's super into art. Can I just brag a little bit about Taya? She is the coolest, most adventurous. Like, if you had to survive in the woods, you would want Taya with you. Like, I would definitely need her to survive.

But they went camping and her and her best friend, these 14-year-old girls, were on their own campsite, 45 or how long, half hour, 45 minutes? So they were, so this is backcountry camping in Ontario, which means you're, you don't drive up, you paddle into your site. And so their campsite was a 45 minute paddle from ours. And then they just took off with a map to camp out at night. Hiked up with beers. Yeah, no. No, but that's hair.

So excited about it, just getting herself around, figuring it out. But you know, Breyer's into all the same stuff. She already wants to go. She's like, can I go by myself at the next campsite 45 minutes away with Taya? And I'm like, sure, honey. Yes. In 10 years. And 20 years, no.

But yeah, she is just the most amazing, coolest kid. I just have to, like, you know, brag a little bit about everyone. Well, her mom's never going to stop you. But how amazing. And how amazing for her to see you and this book coming out, you know? Yes. And it's just amazing. And obviously for you too, Allie. Well, that's what we were talking about before about like when you pursue what you're passionate about and then your kids see you doing that.

And I think that sets a good example for them. Absolutely. As grandmother and mother, you know, all of your grandkids, Allie, and you as an aunt and mom and just everyone seeing this, it's truly incredible. And it really is such a nice reminder to never stop following your dreams. Yes. Thanks, Rachel. Thanks. Yeah. Well, I'm so happy that, you were able to come on and tell us about it. And I'm so excited to get the actual book in my hands. I'm going to get it from my mom too and I'm going to have her read it at the same time as me because this is her jam. She loves. Oh, great. Oh, yeah. This has been so much fun speaking with the two of you. See, it wasn't scary. Yeah, it wasn't scary. See, we're not so bad over here. But you guys were

wonderful. And everyone's stealing John Hancock. Get your hands on it. I cannot wait to read it and find out what happens. I love a good thriller like this. And everyone should get it for their moms too. Or dads. Or dads and brothers and uncles, cousins, sisters, babies. Anyone. It's for everyone's book.

But Allie Haysa, thank you so much. I love you. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Love you. You guys are amazing. To much success. That was a hit gum podcast.