Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Jedidiah Jenkins on Dating AI, Longevity, and Hiding Dead Bodies

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

Author Jedidiah Jenkins talks with Rachel and Olivia about “The Church of Jed”, growing up gay in a homophobic environment, and how his latest book Mother Nature has changed his relationship with his mom. They also discuss walking across America, romantic relationships with AI, and other futuristic prophecies.Broad Ideas is supported by Vegamour. For a limited time get 20% off your first subscription order by going to vegamour.com/ideas and using code IDEAS at check out.Broad Ideas is supported by Thrive Market. Go to ThriveMarket.com/ideas for 30% off your first order, plus a free $60 gift.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max or, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to broad ideas. Hello, people. Hello, Rachel.

At least. And Rob, I got a hello. Hey. Fucking wrong. He's a good his face when he does it, too. Do it again. He's a little weasel. Hey.

Penny. You try and keep straight. Everybody loves. You try and keep. Loves. People have been writing in being like, can you do an episode where it's just you, Rachel, and Rob, please. Do you think people want to see Rob's feet?

Obviously. Let's see those babies. Got more and more requests. Okay. Okay. Okay. Speaking of favorite people, one of my favorite people, Jedediah Jenkins, a very old dear friend of mine. He's not bad.

He's not old, but it's been many years that we have been friends. We have gone on epic adventures together, and I love him so much. He is joining us today. He's a best-selling author. A New York Times best selling author, I should say. He's just a best-selling author. He's the best at being a selling author. He's the best at being a selling author. Correct. His first book to shake the sleeping self was a phenomenal read. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend. His new book, Mother Nature, just came out in November. What? Why are you guys being weird? No, we're not. Anyways, let's just get Jed on because you guys are out. assholes. Let's welcome Jed.

Sometimes when the work inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that I make you. Because people die. It makes me so happy. You're my favorite person.

You seem to be everybody's favorite person. Whoa. I know. It's like a thing. You and your energy and yourself is the best thing in the fucking world. I mirror that back to you all. Is that what it is? What do you think connects you to people?

Because every time your name comes up over the years, you're like a god to people. They're like, oh, my very favorite person. And we're all in the Church of Jedediah. Yeah, what is? Okay, let me think about that. No one's ever asked me that question before. Let me try to answer it.

Yeah. I think that, A, it's a combination of A, I'm naturally like a curious, friendly guy. B, I, a lot of. queer kids, like when you, especially when you grow up in the South are a very like intense place. When you realize you're different, like for me, like seventh grade, when I really realized what it was, there was just a moment of like, this is all subconscious. I don't know I'm doing this, but it's like, you need to make people, you need to connect with people because the world is scary. Like, you're in trouble here. You're at a Christian school of a macho football situation. Like,

and you're realizing that the word that you might be is the word everyone uses as an insult. So that's like a scary thing to realize when you're like 12. And so I think I really leaned into like, you need to connect with people and make them feel seen and make sure they see you. And then you'll be safe because they'll want to protect you. I think that's me like analyzing my brain.

I mean, yeah. So my brain became obsessed with figuring out like, how do you connect with people? How do you like make them trust you? you trust them so that you won't be like hurt. I love that. So that was my little child self trying to protect. You know, like anybody, I would say, I'm sure you've had lots of like comedians in your

life are on this show and like people. And there's always like some root cause of their comedy. Of course. Whether it was being bullied, whether it was fear, whether it was the parents they were raised with. Like it was like a defense mechanism that actually like saved their life. Yep. So, but also the church of Jed, L.O.L.

is I think for me, I think the reason I became a writer was when I like, when my brain turned on and I looked around the world and the world wasn't made for me and I was like naturally in trouble, my brain became obsessed with how does the world work? Because if I can actually predict how the world works and I can see the patterns of why society is built the way it is, why people act the way they do, what their motivations are, I can. predict the world and therefore make it to where I'm okay. And I think that type of observation turned me into a writer. That's beautiful. Yeah. Because it made me have to think about it. Right. So deeply. Yeah. And you're a beautiful writer. Beautiful bone structure. Yeah. The words are fine. The face is great. I know a few people that were at your workshop this week. Really? Yes. That was so fun. Was it? So, so this. So this. This past weekend, dear listener, we had a mind and body writing workshop, which my friend Ruthie

joined me. She's like an embodiment meditation. Like she's dealt with chronic pain ever since the horrific car accident when she was young. And so she's like this embodiment coach, like unbelievable. But but she's very like, oh, Topanga Canyon crystals. And I am not that. So it was very a great combo balance. because I'm very in my head and have trouble getting in my body.

She's very in her body. So it was this really fun balance. And we had people come from all over the world. And we did this weekend thing. And it was writing prompts. And it was really, really fun and cool. We want to go to the next time. I know.

Why did it? Why did we not know? We wanted to be there. When I saw that, I was like, wait a minute. It was in Highland Park. That's close. Yeah. Hello.

I know. I don't get an invite. I don't get it. Well, next, I think what we want to do is one year in L.A., one year in Nashville, one year in Nashville. We'll come to Nashville. I know. Nashville's fun. Yeah, that's great.

But I don't, it would be hard to do it more than once a year. Because it's very high touch, which is gorge. But it is very, and I would be curious y'all's perspective on this. It is very strange, energetically strange, to be like. in a room with people who adore you that you don't know personally. Yeah. Like that is not natural. And I don't like, I love every one of them, but I don't like the way that makes me feel.

I totally get that. Because it's like, I guess like what you take for granted in your life is when you're just like shooting the shit with your friends and someone's like, get your feet off me. They smell bad or whatever it is. Like there's this like natural balance. Yeah. When that imbalance is really strong, it just makes me feel it throws me off. So I can't be in that a lot.

I don't know how like Oprah lives. Do you think it has to do with, it seems to me that you're a very curious person like you said. And through your writing, through your adventures, through all the things you've been through in your life, your curiosity seems to be outside of yourself. So then when you're in that situation, it's a lot being projected at you. And that's probably more uncomfortable because you're used to being the generous one. That is so astute. One thing that I find so fascinating is like, let's say I go to a cocktail party, then I don't know anybody. It does not cross my mind that anyone can see me.

I feel like a ring camera. Like I'm in there and I'm like, whoa, look at her dress. She looks amazing. They're like, oh my gosh, that person. I'm like fascinated by everyone else. And it doesn't dawn on me that I can be, I'm visible. Right. Where so many people that I know who have like social anxiety, they walk into that room and they think everyone's looking at me.

No one thinks I should be here. Everyone's like, why is she here? It would never cross my mind to think that. Because I don't think I'm there. I know I'm there. But you know what I'm saying? Like I'm not thinking about myself. Because you're not, you're just...

I'm just curious about the experience and everybody else, which makes me confident to do things because I feel almost like a journalist. Like they say the power of a journalist's camera, you can be like in a war zone. And because you're looking at the war through the viewfinder, you don't feel unsafe because you're there to capture it.

And you'll walk towards an explosion, because you're like, that's a good shot. There's like a layer where you're not there. Right. Whereas if you're just there, you're scared shitless. Wow. Well, it's also the purpose. Yeah.

Right? So if you have purpose behind it or service behind it, you're going to be more comfortable. That's exactly. So this, my new book, Mother Nature is about like my very complicated, hard relationship with my mother, who I love. Barb. And Barb, we Barb, we Barb. And we have, like, blow out.

arguments and fights in this book that the only way I could have those, I was too chicken shit to ever talk to her about those things. But I committed to writing this book about our relationship and I knew that there are things that I'm afraid to talk to her about that I have to for the book, which is for me. But I wouldn't do it for just me. I would avoid it and la la la, la, move to California. Yeah. You know, like get away and not confront her. But because I a book to write, it gave me a purpose. It was your left. Yeah, it was my journalist lens.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. But a little backstory with it, and we'll talk about that. And also your first book, which we'll get to as well. But maybe you can give a little backstory on you and Barb. Yeah. So I feel like this is not a unique experience.

Like the generational gap of just your parents not understanding you or pressure to be something you're not. And that can create very painful rifts. And it can like break relationships, especially for queer kids, but it can happen to anybody. Like one of my best friends is she grew up Orthodox Jewish and she didn't want to marry a Jewish guy. And it like has caused she didn't, and she didn't, you know, she didn't marry a Jewish guy and have a baby by 24. And it's like been the trauma of her mother's life. And they like, they like, the, like, the, The trauma of her life of just being a disappointment to her Jewish mother was like, and so it was so interesting when I write about my experience being gay in a Christian, raised in a traditional conservative

Christian home, she reads that as a straight woman and is like, this is my story. Like I feel exactly this. Right. Like my mother weeps about me, like all the things. So my mom loves the Lord, conservative, Southern lady, very perfect. And, you know, she just, like, she's been praying since the day she asked me if I was gay, which was like I was 21, I think. It didn't happen until you were 21. Yeah. She suspected it when I was like, well, my dad suspected it when I was two and asked her.

Two. Yeah. There's, like, I'm sure with kids in your lives, you've seen like a kid that was really young and you go, oh, that kid is light and fun. Like there's something going on there. Or that kid is like melancholy and they're going to be Edgar Allan Poe. And they're like that from day one. Yeah, totally.

Right. Right. But the world in which she was brought up in and as an adult engaged was that that is, A, going to give you AIDS and kill you. This is the 80s when I was born. And B, not what God wants and is like an abomination. and is the like beginning of the end of the traditional family of the way God wants a family to be. This is like cutting at the heart of like. So it's just this like really ingrained thing.

And the church is telling you that a kid isn't born gay. They're like influenced to be that way by molestation by an absent father by blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so it's just a worldview that it that is so different for her. And it's just been so hard. and impossible for her to believe that this is not a choice and this is not me being seduced by the liberal coastal elites. Oh, gosh. You know, that it's like.

Yeah. So anyway, I wanted to write this book because I have so many friends that have completely severed their relationship with their families. And it was exacerbated by the Trump era. Like, I know people that that was the straw. Like, you're done. Right. And so over the last few years, especially after Trump was elected, I had numerous people

be like, your relationship with your mom is very interesting because we are very close. We talk all the time. I talked around the drive here. Yeah. And so we're able to hold fundamental, emotional, profound, important differences and stay in relationship in love. So incredible. Yeah.

And we both think we're so right. Yeah. You know? Right. Which reminds me of like the global political situation right now. Like right. It's so entrenched and everybody could put their heels down and just be like, fuck you. I don't feel safe.

You've betrayed me. Whatever it is. So that like that planted the seed of like I don't even know why we're like this, but it would be interesting to try to figure out because maybe there's a clue. or maybe there's some roadmap for other people who feel activated. My friend Ruth who taught me that. That's what I said. Activated.

Yes, that of triggered. It's activated. I'm feeling. Oh, you and Ruth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That checks. But I think that's so true. Like, we just were so activated by all that. Mm-hmm. And I just wanted to analyze it and say,

what is this? And that's what this book is. So what's crazy to me is, obviously, your parents walked across the country. Okay? So you hear these stories and you're like, that's so hippie-like. I know, they were hippies.

Right. Hippies in a Christian belief. Right. Well, they were like, my mom was always so loving of the Lord, like in seminary. My dad was like hippie, beard, woodstock, whatever. Got it.

But then in the, so in the 70s, my dad. This is like peak Vietnam, young people hate America intensity. And so he decides he's going to walk across America because he was complaining. Well, he was complaining about how much America sucks. And some like older man was like, dude, you're from Greenwich, Connecticut. You don't know America. Right. Like, what do you know? You don't know real America. And, And it just, like, planted this seat in his head of, like, I'm going to just walk across America and meet everybody. I mean, which is so funny because that's like something I would do. I'm like, so.

Well, you kind of did on a bike, but we'll get to that. I'm still my parents, kid. But so he started doing that and he walked from New York to New Orleans where he met my mom, who was in seminary at the time. But he was, you know, charismatic, lots of bravado. walked into the National Geographic headquarters in Washington, D.C. because he loved Nat Geo. And he said, I want to take photos for you. I'm walking across America. And they were like, who are you? Go away. We're like real. And then as he was leaving, they ran out and they were like, we changed our mind. Here's a camera. Whatever. So my parents ended up being on the cover of National

Geographic. It's like very wild. The wildness. Yeah. And they wrote these really popular famous articles, which then became, you know, hugely best-selling books. Like, it is such a huge deal in the year of Our Lord 2023 for a book to sell a million copies. Who knows if I'll ever do that. My parents' books sold 12 million copies. Whoa. It was like huge. Yeah.

Yeah. Huge, huge. Massive. You know, and they were like a love story for America. Love, love, love. And, you know, and then my dad was really the star and my mom was the sidekick. And, you know, then they move back to Tennessee, or they moved, they decide to move to Tennessee to raise a family. And my dad is off touring, speaking.

My mom is raising three kids on a farm. You know, and then the marriage, like, fame, the marriage starts to, like, fall apart. My dad's having a good old time with whoever, wherever. And the marriage explodes. But the complexity is they're a famous Christian couple. Wow. And they're having like, like it's the marriage is falling apart. They're having real life.

And there's no, exactly, there's no wrath like Christian fans scorned. Right. And so there, it was this blood bath of what, so basically their fame crumbled. Yeah. And my mom was left with the kids, all the things. And so I grew up in this very weird like, like, like, Rome had fallen, like, remember when we were, we had money and people loved us. And now we're cutting coupons.

And like, it was a big deal to, like, go to the movies and eat it Applebee's. Yes. So it was this really interesting kind of, like, feeling that I got from my parents. And it's very much instilled in me the belief that everything can go away. Yeah, right. So, like, I, it's, I'm glad I'm like that. But it probably stifles me with relationships. But it, for example, like, I have no debt.

I do not buy fancy things because I'm just like, I need to make this money last. And I'm going to just live simply because tomorrow everyone could hate me. Like, because that happened to my parents. It's like very interesting how these stories get passed down. I want to help you let that go. Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah.

Let's let that one go. Let's do it. So what a way to enter the world though Yeah Well there's so many pros and so many cons Sure The pro is both of my parents were like adventurous writers Who never had a normal job

I never saw my parents go to work Right I mean they divorced when I was very young But grew up on a farm They were just there My dad was either writing or feeding the cows And They were around

which was really special. And as I was developing dreams of like wanting to be a Hollywood director or wanting to be a Disney animator or wanting to whatever, there was never like a you can't do that. It was very much like we walked across America. We created a life that was very strange. You can do whatever you want. So I very much, that's influenced me. I feel very free. Yeah.

So for this book, the framework of Mother Nature is I know so much about my dad's adventures. and I've heard him speak and he's like, you know, had that fame. And my mom has like kind of been like, oh, yeah, I was there too, her whole life. Yeah. And I did that too. And I co-wrote those books. And so I was like, Mom, let's do a road trip and retrace your walk. I would love to see every town you were in.

And she was like, oh my gosh, I haven't thought of that, nor have I been back to those places in 40 years. Wow. And then she goes, and look what I found. And she had a journal from every day. of three years. And she's like 30 years old. How special to meet your parent in that way at her 30 year old mind before you existed when she's in love with your dad and like all the things. And so we're just like driving from town to town and she's reading her thoughts from that day.

This isn't that time. It's very cool. It's very cool. Like I wanted. So cool. Part of my intention was. my mom is this like force of nature, which is where the title mother nature came from. Because I was going to call it force of nature.

And then I realized it's about my mom. And I was like, what if we call it mother nature, which is cute. And yet I was like, and she has so much power over me. And I want her approval. And I just like want her to be okay with me and like give me this like godly approval. And yet she's also a human. She's just a girl who got older. Yeah, right.

You know, like every mother, y'all included is like, you're just like a teenage girl that like got older and you're still you. Right. And all of a sudden this child is looking at you. I mean, all my mom friends, they go, the craziest moment is when you leave the hospital with the baby. And you're like, wait, no one's coming with me. Right. Now I can just take this human home and now I have to keep it alive indefinitely. Like, you're just a person.

And so I wanted to get, I wanted to befriend my mom as a 30-year-old as me as an adult and know her as a human to almost like dethrone the power. A little bit so that I could stand in my own strength. Right. And it worked. It would make me love her more. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah, but what a cool experience. You know, I mean, I'm like, I wish I had been writing dreams. I know. That's exactly what I thought. I'm like, I'm going to start writing today to my kids. I know, I know. But it's also like, just all of it. Just the whole experience in your relationship with your mom and your parents. And then even you being their child and going on your own insane journey to shake the sleeping self, which was your first book, which is also fucking mind blowing what you did.

you're going to have to tell about that too. But it's just what a cool. I just always look at you in your life and I'm like, you're living the fucking most fulfilled coolest life out of anyone I know. I feel great about it. No, like just looking in, it's like, but the things you do, how you are as a person, the way you make everyone feel when you're in the room, like all of it.

It's like that seems like such a fulfilled existence. I don't know that you feel that way all the time. I'm telling you what it. I feel that way a lot. I feel really great. Great. Great. I will say, I had a really profound experience at the writer's workshop this weekend where this amazing.

This amazing trans man was there and he came up. And one of the writing prompts was I asked everyone to write their obituary from the future. The obituary they want. Because I like the idea of seeing yourself. Yeah. And he got up there. and he said something which was very compelling. He goes, growing up and, you know, fearing my transness or whatever,

I never thought I would be old. I couldn't because because he was afraid of affirming his own gender. And so he was imagining himself in that gender dysphoric state. Right. And he was like, I'll, I'd rather die. I can't imagine pretending to be a woman and be old. So he's like, I have never thought about myself as an old person and I can't even imagine it. And he was like, it has been so profound in this moment for the first time of my life to allow myself to imagine me being old in my truth.

Like to just be old. I never. And I think that something less acute than that experience, but for me, this fear of, when you're a queer kid like in the closet you're so I was so afraid of like living in fear and like this gotcha like the the fear of the gotcha when you're like a queer kid is so scary because someone's going to find out someone's going to read your journal someone's going to see your browser history and you're fucked and everyone's going to never talk to you again and I just had such a fear of that feeling that I've, like, dedicated my adult life to, like, total transparency,

total freedom, total, like, pursuit of authentic integrity, blah, blah, blah. Because I'm like, that was the worst feeling, and I'm not doing that again. Right. And you can condition yourself to do that, even if you are being honest about your preferences, then you'll see that come up in other areas. Like, oh, I'm feeling like a fraud. this area or I'm going to be found out. And that's something that you can really deeply condition yourself to live with. And the fact that you're, it sounds to me like that wasn't given to you by someone else. That was your kind of intuition and wisdom that made that decision. I think so. I mean, it was my innate motivation to just, I'm an eneagram seven. Do you all

know about the anyogram? I do. Yeah. I don't know enough about it. I don't know. So the the enneagram is this like it's just kind of a fun tool. It's like a personality test kind of or like Meyer's Brig. Oh yeah. Yeah. There's nine numbers. I'm a seven, which is an enthusiast. And so I just like am excited about everything. But so and then each number is it's interesting. Your expression of your personality is mirrored by a root fear. Yep. So so much of who you are is actually. rooted in a fear. And so like a three, which is an achiever, their number one root fear, their motivating fear is failure. And so populated on top of the fear of failure are all these personality traits that they're vain, they're super successful, they're driven, they're this,

they're that. And it's all you can, you can dial it back to it. Boil it all down. Yeah. So for me, my root fear is pain. So I'm always happy. If you're crying. Now, I've done a lot of work around this. If you're sad, I'm immediately trying to make you happy. I'm like, we're jumping in the pool. Let's get naked. Whatever it is. Like, come on.

Because I can't sit with you in your pain because it scares me too much. Wow. Yeah. Where someone who has a really comfortable relationship with emotions, they'll sit with you and cry with you. Right. And they'll not try to fix you. They'll let you feel that.

That's so interesting. It's really interesting. It's so beautiful. But it also brings, you know, because so we went to Africa together. Like, I can't tell you. like, oh my God, I shouldn't. Anyway, we went to Africa together with invisible children. And, you know, we saw some shit, right? Yeah. Like, very serious matters and things that we were exposed to and, and experiencing and everything. But every moment, like, Jed was just bringing the joy, the humor,

the fun. And it was the most memorable trip of our life because all I take from it, everything we absorbed, which was so much, and there's so much reflection from it. And, everything else, but it was the happiest trip of my life. Because he's on the fucking bus in like the back skirts of like Uganda, like, you know what I mean? It's making everybody die laughing because it's fucking Jedd. But that speaks exactly what you're saying. Yeah.

And that's my big, like one of the bigger takeaways was just being in your presence throughout that. And it was the most fun ever. Like playing games in the fucking, you know, like. I love a game on a bus. When you have six hours. I love a game anywhere. I mean, Hiking the Nile was like, Alligate, you know, and we're up there and whatever.

It's just like the experience is heightened. We really need to find like all the photos I know Kenny has them. We just need to like have them. He does he because I don't have them. He has millions. I need them all. I do have a video of us singing to the girls dorm that was built and like all of us performing. I have a little clip I'll show you.

And we're making up songs and we're performing it. And we're like on the boat, on the Nile. And we're reenact. acting the Lion King. Like, I mean, like we have these videos. Let's go back. Let's go back.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But I do believe that, like, there is a role for every type of person. Yeah. Like, if you are just, I mean, this is why ER doctors are, they can have some of the darkest humor you've ever heard because they have to be in the face of blood and guts all day.

And if they're weeping, they can't save you. Right. And so, like, I know that the levity that I move through the world with, even it is maybe because I fear pain, but it also gives you stamina to stay in the room. Yeah. You're not just like, it is an act of service. You see that in most,

most people that have endured pain have a good sense of humor, at least from what I've witnessed. You go into a room of alcoholics anonymous and they'll be like, I want to die and everyone just laughs. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, it's not that they're laughing at their pain, but they're laughing at the recognition of how hard it is to be human. And we need those breaks. And that's like whenever we will get like really deep.

And then Rachel will throw something in. Because I have so much trauma in pain. Yeah. It'll be exactly what we need it in the moment to live in. You know, it's that dance. It is a dance. It's so awesome. But it's, that's the thing is I think one of the great gifts of having a community of friends where people have different strengths. Yeah. I mean, we're meant to live in a community of like different strengths. And I think sometimes, and I don't know the reasons and I wish I did, people get siloed into like, you know, guys will just have surface macho guys that, and that's all their

friends. And they wonder why they're secretly depressed and they have no one to tell that to except their poor wife who would, you know, it's like there's so much lack of this balance where you have the different types of people to bring out the different sides of you. Like, I'm such a believer that I am a different person and a different friend to every friend based on the alchemy of the combo of the two of us. Yes. You know, like you and I are going to get a different coffee chat than you and I.

And I'm going to learn more about myself and each other because it's like that mixture is the delicious, unique experience. Right. And I wish everybody would do that more, but I don't know. You know, it brings up a question to me. I think that this book brings up one of the most important conversations we could possibly be having right now. And that's how do we love each other through our differences? Because the fact that you can still, you can have fundamental differences in your belief system and your makeup as your mom.

And you can still love her and accept her. And how do you do that? because it seems like people are really, really struggling with this. And people are walking away from relationships where I think learning about the person and going, oh, that's their blankie, whether it's the church or whether it's whatever it is they believe in. If you see the why and what that's doing for their life, maybe you can be a little bit more accepting. But I'd love to hear how we as a society and as people can love each other regardless of our belief systems.

Oh my, I love the image of, oh, that's their blankie. Yeah. Even, you know, you see somebody who's like screaming about politics and whatever and you're like, that's their blankie. It's like. I've seen so many people because I grew up so religious and I'm just like, religion is so stupid. And then people will deconstruct their religion and then become obsessed with politics.

Totally. Or they'll deconstruct their religion and become obsessed with crystals or whatever it is. And I'm like, people just go, they just move the chest. pieces around and create the same thing. Right. I would say that the reason

that I can have a strong and lovely relationship with my mother is that I separated from her and built a community of safety to where

I would not die if I lost her. And like, and I did this. It's funny. Like I think about when I was growing up in National I was, I knew I was like, I'm going to California or New York City, you know, because I want to get out of here.

And that's like, it's so funny, that's like the stereotypical dream of like a gay kid or just like a kid with showbiz in their eyes. And, and yeah, there's some like background motivation of like, I want to go somewhere where I'm fully accepted and where I can experiment and try things. without the lens of this world that makes me feel crushed. Like, I want to go somewhere and not be observed by them. Try things. And I did that. And what was so interesting is in high school, I knew that I was going to have to tell all my, I loved my friends in high school.

I loved high school. And part of my, like, control everything is I was student body president. I was head of whatever because I'm like, now that I look back on it, I was like, oh, I was trying to control everything to be. okay. Yeah. But I was like, I need to tell all my friends that I'm gay before I moved to L.A. Because if I don't, they're going to think California changed me.

Oh. So I need them to know now that I was this already. Yeah. And oh, I mean, I waited to the last minute. Before you go. Two weeks before I moved to college. But I knew that I needed to go. Oh, what I was going to say is I had this background hum my whole.

childhood that when people find out you will lose everything. Hmm. So I was, every experience that I had was colored with once they find out, that friend will never talk to you again. Oh my God. Your family will disown you. It's a horrible feeling. Yeah.

Anxiety, like everything. There's a fabulous book I always talk about it's called Far from the Tree. Really recommended it's very big, but it's about how there's two types. This is a side tangent, but I really just think it's so important. There's horizontal identity and vertical identity. So like if I'm white and you're white and we have a child, they're probably going to be white. And that's a vertical identity. Whiteness in America is an experience that we know what that's like.

So we can pass that down. If you're Catholic and I'm Catholic and we raise our kid Catholic, that's a vertical identity that we pass down. If we're American, pass down. But we could have a child that is autistic. And we don't know what it's like to be autistic. And they then have to find a horizontal identity of find other autistic people that they can connect with. So there's these horizontal identities are where a child is experiencing something and is a part of a community that the parents know nothing about. And the book is all about that.

So it's autism, it's blindness, it's trans and queer, it's genius. Oh, wow. Like two C-plus students could have a genius Einstein trial and they don't know what to do with that. I need to read this book. It's profound. My son has hearing loss and learning. This book is so.

And the author is gay, Andrew Solomon. And one of the things that he writes about is a natural insidiousness of queerness is that it is a otherness that is a otherness that is discovery. privately. Right. Like if you're black and you're in a, you look around and there's another black kid in the cafeteria, boom, I'm going to go sit with them.

Right. If you're gay, you start to think, what if I'm gay and you're scared to be gay because that's bad. Right. So, and then you're like, someone calls you gay and you're now interrogating the way you move that you never thought about before. And so now you're scared to move. And like, and you're scared.

If you see another gay kid, you're not going to go befriend them because then people are definitely going to think you're gay. So now you're bullying them to prove that you're not gay. It's this very insidious situation that's all happening privately. So you don't even know who to talk to. And it creates this cycle of shame. So anyway, this book is great. And he talks all about that. So I was trying to build. I just had this innate sense of I'm going to lose everything. I whatever, whatever. So I moved to California, you know, and made the most amazing life affirming, me affirming friends. And I just felt so good in the background of my mind being like, if I lost all of Nashville, I have L.A. I have a chosen family. Yeah. And I think a lot of people find chosen family when they, you know, that's the hope. So with that strength, I like was able to, you know, come out to my family.

My family, everyone's dope and cool with it except my sweet mama. And she, but she dies for me. She loves me. Of course she does. And by the way, her non-affirmation of my sexuality is her loving me because she believes deeply and was taught that it is a destructive lifestyle. Right, right. And so that is her loving me.

She's in alignment with her values. She is told it's exactly the same as being alcohol. Yeah, right. And that I love alcohol, but it will kill me. And everyone in L.A. is telling me alcohol is your best friend. Mm-hmm. Blah, blah, blah, blah. This is what she thinks. So just with a little distance and with a little that I was able to see that, like, my, like, I'm safe. And so I can have this relationship with my mom. It still activates me, triggers me. It still, like, upsets me. But I have my feet planted in my own life where I can, like, stand in my, my, manness, my manhood, and approach her as an adult with boundaries and love her from a distance. And it really worked. Now, I will say some people have parents or family members that do not have my mother's tangential positive traits. My mom is hilarious. My mom is sweet. My mom is adventurous. My mom is positive and will just exclaim every time she sees a deer or a sunbeam.

You know, like there's like a brightness to her that makes her easy to love. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, some people, yeah. That is a piece. And I don't want to like, I don't want to minimize that because, you know, like any traumatized person, my life is very compartmentalized. I can easily forget that she like has a lot of beliefs that I want to destroy. Yeah.

And just enjoy her company. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's a piece of it. That's a piece of it. But I think it's important that you're able to do that because look, we're all asking for acceptance in different ways. Yeah.

Right? And it seems lately a lot of people are asking for acceptance, but then also not willing to give it. Yeah. And that's a tough thing to. We can't ask for something we're not willing to give. That's so, you're so profound. That's really, that's really one of the things I wrote about in this book is that I'm asking my mom to accept a belief that she doesn't believe in love me in spite of her convictions. And in a way, she's asking the same from me.

Right. That she's asking me to tolerate a belief that I think is wrong, which is what I do with her. Right. Correct. And I remember it's amazing how everything in life is connected if you like turn your neurons on. I was reading about the Constitution of the United States and like the founding of our country. And they were talking about civil society and civilization. And I was thinking about how the difference between civilization and civil society and utopia is the word civil.

Civil implies you do you, I'll do me, we won't shoot each other. Civil implies we disagree. Right. But we can still shop at Trader Joe's together. We don't have to talk about everything. But don't step on me, I won't step on you, as little as possible. Whereas I think a lot of people think we're trying to find utopia where everyone has to agree about everything. And that's just not going to happen.

And that's why it's called civilization. Correct. And so I'm just like, we need, let's be in pursuit of civility. Yes. Right. Or else we will destroy ourselves. Destroy. Yeah.

I couldn't agree more. I know. That's actually brilliant. Quite frankly. Yeah. And I think people need to hear it put out that simply. It is. It's because it's a simple explanation, but it makes so much sense.

And yet, there is so much importance around activism and fighting. And, like, you can see, like, things can backslide. and we can lose rights. I know. These things are real. Like, the fight is real. Yes. But it's you've got to hold the world with both hands of like,

the people that you are fighting tooth and nail with are also humans with their blankies. Yeah. And you have to protect them. Right. In spite of their blankie. Yeah. Right. Always.

Right. And hope that they would do the same for you because we might not be right about everything. No. Even though we probably are. It's really hard to accept, right? What did your mom think of the book? So this is interesting if you have any thought of writing a memoir about people that are alive. It's really hard.

Yeah. Yeah. Because they'll read it. And they, if you have anything interesting to say, it's probably not pure propaganda cuddles. It's like hard things. And my mom, you know, my mom had a much harder time with to shake the sleeping self than this book. Really? Because my mom spent so much time in the shadow of my dad and then was just she had no voice and all of a sudden I had a big voice.

And then she's the, even though I'm talking about her lovingly, she is the foil, the antagonist to my protagonist. And so before my first book came out, she was very nervous that people would hate her. because, you know, it's like a conservative Trump supporter. Like you go online and there's people that are ready to kill. Yeah. And so she was nervous, but for that first book, my editor gave me this great advice, which was whenever you write about somebody, they're not going to like it. No.

And so what you do is you give her the manuscript and you say, what exactly did I say incorrectly, what would you change? And you put the onus on them. And so she went through and she actually didn't change much. She just changed a few wordings of things. And by the way, her wording was like funnier or more. Brilliant. Brilliant.

So I was like nailing it. But then I gave her some agency over how she was represented, which was great. I love that. That is great. And in this book, in that book and this book, my intention was, if I do my job well, Mm-hmm. Her best friends, and she can read this book and perceive herself to be the hero.

Mm-hmm. And I'm the belligerent narrator. Or if you're my friend, you can read this and be like, Barb, get it together. Why are we still fighting over this? Where if I've represented both characters lovingly and truthfully, you can choose your own adventure. I love that.

Because that's reality. Right. And Anne, it's actually not like, it's not, wit, wise, it's not good writing if like the villain is a caricature. In any writing. No. In any film and anything. It's not believable.

I mean, yeah. Everyone has their reasons. Exactly. Right. Everyone. If you can really make that compelling. And so that was my goal with this. And so she read it and, you know, she's a little bit like, do you have to, do you have to air all our dirty laundry?

Yes. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Because, because to tie it back, so much of the gay. experience was I have no one to talk to. And so at least with a book like this, you can take the cover off and just read it with the like blank cover. And you can read that book wherever you are and be learning something if you're afraid to talk to somebody. Like you can have this conversation with me privately. Yeah. Right. Which I want to give that to somebody. Well, see, again, it goes back

to the service. It goes back to the why. Yes, we have to air our dirty laundry because there's people out there that need it. And, you know, anyone in any sort of faith-based community can sometimes really get behind wanting to help people. Yeah. Right? And so it's whether you believe in it or not, if you really ask people to be of service, they usually show up.

It's so true. Yeah. And I will say, like, because I was raised and in my 20s, like, so evangelical, like, like helping, you know, building houses in Tijuana, whatever. Nice. It was amazing. But there was also this like, Jesus needs you to do this. And like, you better be doing it.

There was this, like, layer of Christian guilt. Yeah. And then also you're like doing something nice for somebody. And then you're like, and this is, you know, the gospel. Now change your religion. And they go, we're already Christian. And I'm like, oh, like, embarrassing. So I have this like.

interesting visceral knee-jerk activation around like charity work, even though I believe in it so deeply and it's so important, I can just feel like the motivation was tainted in some of the Christianness of some of the things from my early 20s, which is part of why I was so drawn to invisible children is because it was all service and pure friendship and not any proselytization. You weren't like trying to convince anybody of anything except that war is bad. Right. Which is great.

But for me, the purpose and the mission, like the person I'm trying to influence with my writing, I write for me when I was 22. Like, I'm picturing somewhere, somewhere in Alabama, there is a 22-year-old gay kid. And that's me. And wishes they could figure out. who to talk to and they can't. And maybe they could go to Barnes & Noble. Right.

You know, like, I wish, I wish, I wish. And that that 22-year-old kid cannot imagine being in L.A. and 40 and having the job of their dreams with the friends of his dreams and the life of his dreams, like that is not even possible. I can't imagine that. And it's like, it's real and it's coming for you. Right. Yeah.

Which is so cool. But I just want to tell him. Right. It's like, when everyone's always like, what would you tell your younger self? You're literally... Like I did. You're like, I just did. Yeah.

And now it can help other younger selves. Yeah. You know? It's like... And that also insulates me from trying to imagine the experience. Like, I'm not writing for like the amorphous masses. I don't know what they want. Right.

I don't know what's important to a woman. I don't know what's important to a person of color that's living wherever. Like, I can't imagine that, but I can imagine me at 22 and what he needed. And maybe the universal truth. of that will translate. Yeah. But I think it could also be helpful for the mothers that are in that situation and to have a little bit more perspective and understanding what it's like to grow up as a gay man and what

that life turns into. And I think it could also be comforting in the sense of like, it's not what you think. Yeah. You know, so giving them a little bit of perspective too, if any of the parents are struggling with their child's, you know, something. sexuality or any of it. I'm fascinated by the, well, I've had quite a few young mothers read this who have like babies or like four-year-olds. And they were so moved by, wow, I hope my child wants to take me on a road trip when he's 40, like, and wants to know me the way I am right now.

Because this blob who is like sucking me dry, I can't imagine doing shit for me. me. Yeah. And then like, is he going to even care what I was like now when I was cool and hot? Right. Like, is he going to know that? Like, that's really interesting. Right. That is interesting. Because it's also honoring for your, you want your kid. But one thing that I think about so much is every generation has to go through the gauntlet, the majority of us, of the next generation, believing something that we're not comfortable with. Of course. You know, like whether it's, gay marriage for the boomers and then it's trans rights for the Gen X and young boomers. I mean, even millennials, some millennials are like really stressed.

And I'm like, what is the thing that are, that Gen Alpha or whatever is going to be so strongly convinced of that we're like, I'm sorry, I'm old school. I'm old school. Right. Yeah. Can't do it. And I have a theory. I was going to say, what is it?

Do tell them. Say, no. I think that it might become very normal for people to have romantic relationships with AI. I was going to say, I know it has something to do with AI. Have you seen her? Yeah, of course. Oh, yes. Where he falls in love with Carla Johansson, the phone.

The phone, yeah. I am convinced that that's coming and that these kids, it might not be your kids, it might be your grandkids. Right. They're going to be like, Grandma, you don't get it. You don't get it. She's the love of my life. And you're going to be like, she's not real. No, see, like our reaction is like, there's no fucking way.

No, there's a way. And not only that, I think it's even going to go further as in our kids. It's going to be like, don't chip yourself. Like, don't become part computer. Like, keep natural. We're going to be so. Part computer. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I didn't have been granny with it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's all going to happen. Like, it's already happening. I can't. Like, I'm already like.

And maybe, like, this thing, I don't know. Maybe we should say don't. Maybe that's too far. But I don't know. Like every time, every generation that when you're the younger generation, and every time the older generation says that, you're like, get with it. You're wrong. Get it.

Get over it. Right. I kind of feel like adapt or die. That's how I feel. I do too. I do too. Like I'm like, go with what. I do too.

But then sometimes. There's the like, there's, you know, there's the old Mary Oliver in the woods who's like, your addiction to your phone is killing your soul. And she's like, right. So I'm like, and then a young person's like, well, sorry, I love my phone. Right. And then she's like, well, you're wrong. And in that scenario, the granny in the woods is correct.

Correct. Correct. However, however, if we adapt, we don't know. It's just like addiction. Whatever brings you to your knees brings you to your enlightenment. And so the kids, the generations, they may need to fall into these patterns to create what's next and to get back to that. You're right. So it's part of the process of bringing it back to the soul.

And sometimes it's us losing it that brings us back to it. Yes. And really seeing what's important by the juxtaposition of going too far. That's true. I'm still granny. Breyer's like, Mom, I'm going to chip my brain. Well, they're doing it so that you could be a better athlete, so you could be a better student. Like, they're, they're testing these theories of what if you could be the best at anything humans are capable of doing?

We actually are very, it's hard to say. I mean, they probably said this in past generations, but in our generation, I think in the next 30 years, things could get real, real wacky. Like, I'm talking about full AI, whatever. And I'm also talking about bespoke vaccines that cure all diseases. Mm-hmm. I'm talking about they might be able to stop aging. That's what my husband's work is, longevity. And they're all trying to figure out.

It's not like the blue zones, though? No, it's not blue zones. This is like... This is more like singularity type. Yeah. This is more like the reason that our cells decay as we get older is, like around after 50 copies, they start to like lose information. And that's why they're wired to do that.

But they can turn that off. Yeah. So like there's all these like stem cells, all this stuff that Jeff came home from, we just went to a conference on stem cells. And he came home. And I was like, oh, I'm stem selling shepherd because my son has a chromosonal deletion syndrome. And they're like, there's ways to start replacing these genes. And we're just like, we're not there yet.

Don't worry. Don't worry. Grannie's on the porch. But they're coming up with these wild ways to regenerate. I know, but imagine in 30, 40 years we'll still be alive and probably even without crazy, crazy stuff, our generation is going to live probably longer than ever. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, they're going to hack human cells and be like, oh, actually, you can live

to be around 250 or maybe. indefinitely. And then, like, the moral cascade of what that means is so scary and weird. But like,

why would you, what's the, isn't there a movie where someone just like keeps saying? Oh, there's tons. There's like, there's like a lot.

You know, all the things that we imagine in movies are just going eventually come true. They are. If we can imagine it. Yeah. I mean,

when you go back to look like back to the future or like whatever it is or even talking to someone on fucking FaceTime. Like you can scream. You can. Yeah.

Where. But it's here. Yeah, we are the Jetsons predicted everything. But like it's just that alone. It's still granny. I know. Like 80 year old granny, just like, what the fuck is happening? Like a car's going to fly or it already does or something.

I know. Well, I mean, we get so accustomed to things. Yeah. I mean, I'm walking through my house and I say, Alexa, what's the weather today? Oh, yeah. That's true. Yeah, we don't even think that feels totally not cool. I'm just like, Alexa, do something.

Every day. Yeah. I'm like, Alexa, my kid asks questions, Alexa answers. But like even me in high school would have thought that was so futuristic. Totally. It's, it is futuristic. Because it is. It's not futuristic.

I guess what they didn't really warn you is that when you live in the future, it's normal. It's just like you said about having kids. It's the same thing. It's going to be you just there. Yeah. Right. Oh, my God. I'm having a blast.

I have for 10-hour podcast. It is. This is going to be a weekend retreat. It is. This is. This is our own retreat. Great. What's our prompt? Yeah.

What is our prompt? I feel like Jed would be the perfect person for questions. Would you do it? What are you saying? I just feel like you should do a little retreat with maybe just a little of us. Oh, she's like, don't wait a year. We need it now. Yeah, I don't know if you should wait a year because I'm...

It could be here. Yeah. It could be here. Yeah. Backyard is yours. Okay, great. Seriously. I'm in.

Because we're both writing and I think it would be really helpful to have some... It would be helpful. And honestly, I'm workshopping, like, my next book. So it would be kind of fun, like, to get a little writers group together. Yeah. And we just have a weekend where we just, like, drink coffee and then move on to drinking wine. And we just like, we have a dry erase board. And we're like, what are we doing here and what are we working on?

Yeah. I'm totally down. That sounds really fun. We'll curate it. We'll help curate it. And we'll do just like a little weekend retreat. Well, let's be the new little, the new literati, you know, like Paris and the night. Why can't that be us?

Why can't that be yes? Pasadena in the 2000. I thought you were going to say Paris in the early 2000s. Paris Stilton in the early 2000s. Can we get that vibe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that vibe. That is a vibe. What were the one oak or whatever, like all the clubs that we go to?

Oh, for sure. Let's also do that. Let's also revisit. Let's write in the day and then Paris sit out at night. Oh, my God. That would be a really fun weekend where we all dress exactly in that fashion, and we hire fake paparazzi, and we go to all these clubs and just recreate it. Well, yes.

And then recreate shot-for-shot famous photos from that time. Oh, who's getting out of the car with no pan? This is what I'm saying. All of us. Me. That would be a great coffee table book. It would be a great car. Okay, wait, can I give you a side note? Yes.

I want to throw a party. y'all can help. I think the funnest party idea ever. Yeah. Is maybe for a birthday. You get 10, 15 of your friends and you get a big house up in Big Bear or you rent a house. Yeah. And you're together for a weekend.

Yes. But you set up cameras everywhere and then you set up a confessional room. Okay? Like Big Brother. And what you do is you just have the funnest weekend. But cameras are rolling constantly. But there's a confessional room. And you go into the room.

And so you task everyone to make up a fight with someone. But the person you're fighting with can't know. They don't know. Oh, my God. So you're saying, can you believe what she just fucking said? And then you hire an editor to go through all the footage and construct drama out of nothing. So brilliant. And it's all based on the interviews.

in the confession link. And so then nobody knows what anyone said. You're just having a fun time. Everyone's getting drunker and drunker. And then like three months later, you just get the Vimeo link or whatever. And it's an episode of a reality show. That is genius.

Wouldn't that be the funniest party favor of your life? Yeah, but you could have that as a company. Like people would be like, oh, it's a bachelorette. We're going to do the reality thing. What did it be so cool? Let's start it. Genius. It is, see, his ideas.

But like, the thing is he'll actually do it. I know. You know, like they'll actually do it. It has to happen. I mean, we're there. I know. But we'll ruin friendships for life. No, because it's not real.

Yeah, you're acting. But what if we touch on some real things? There would have to be some ground rule. There would have to be, yeah. Rachel's like, and that fucking bitch. And that time she fucking stole my point. That person's getting too real. That person's getting got a real thing back in.

Too real. It's got to be like she used white napkins on a black tablecloth. Yeah, yeah. Really upsets me and it's triggering. Yeah, I'm just obsessed. You come in and you go, Rachel's really offending me. She's saying the most fucking crazy things.

And then the editor scrolls through and just does a super cut of random things you're saying around the house. You're like, the balloons are great. It would be so, that editor would have, I think, the funniest time of their life. Oh, my God. That would be amazing. That is so good.

See? I'm telling you, that's a whole company where people would be like, I'm doing that for your birthday. It's like the murder mystery party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, you could probably actually get an Airbnb that you own and have set it up for that. That's what I mean. It lives there. Because the cameras are there. It's already set up. And you would decorate it like one of those horrible reality show houses. Yes. 100%.

The pillows are bright pink. And everything's ugly. Yeah, and bright and like uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like sterile. Why are they all looking like? And the pool is like. Because it's a sound stage.

They build to look like a house. And then people would love it because they've seen that so many times that they'd be like, living in it. They get their moment of fame. Can we do a version of like love is blind though? Do you have, do you watch that show? Of course. Wait, but how?

Yeah. I don't know. I just, they just thought like it would. Wait, I'm happy through this season. I haven't, no, I'm only on like the first, I haven't gotten past like maybe the second episode. Well, that. Is this? Yeah.

Oh, my God. It's so awkward. It's so gringy. But of course I love it. Of course. I just love. I can't stop watching. What?

What is so interesting is this is a wide-ranging interview. That's what we like. That's what we like. I love that I can turn that show on and I can be doing other things. I can be scrolling. I could be also watching TikTok and watch the show because it's like, who cares? It's just there. It's insane.

Because there's different layers of things to watch on TV. Like some shows, you need to be in it. Yes. I actually really love a good dramatic show that is in a. another language. Because it forces me to watch. You have to pay attention to read it. I'm a millennial borderline, even though I'm an elder millennial, I have the personality

of a Gen Z. And so I just like, it's very hard for me to focus on a TV show. Yeah. So I have, it has to be another language. Hmm. Because then I'm, I get it. Very. You're forced.

Yeah. I'm a little bit the same. Yeah. Who was telling us that they're really into watching Korean soap operas? I do not know. Korean soap operas? It's like a thing that people do. She's so into Russian, Colombian, foreign, Korean, like,

because she just blasts through everything. And then she's like, well, what now? There's a whole other country here producing the most D-level. Amazing. Soap operas you've ever seen. Gotta get addicted. Gotta get addicted. Can I just tell you the best movie I've seen in like five years is called The Handmaiden.

Have you heard of it? It's Korean. Okay. Okay. Remember when, how embarrassing, the iconic director who directed Parasite, bombs? Yes, yes, yes, yes. He said when he won the Oscar, like, finally the Oscar voters were able to get over the one-inch barrier of subtitles. Like the giant one-inch barrier.

It's like, imagine. Imagine. But so there's just like, the Korean sentiment is so amazing. And there's this movie called The Handmaiden. It is so profound and good. It came out in like 2016. I'm like, you know, like there's movies and then there are films. Yeah.

This is a film. Yeah. And it's so beautiful. I can't recommend it enough. I'm going to want to. Not the handmade's tale. It's not anything. No, no, no.

Right. The handmaid. Like you will watch it like this. Parasite was hard for me. It was so intense. This is less intense, but still something, something. Okay. It's a little intense.

You need something, something for sure. We'll keep your attention. But it was just very intense. I've felt very, oh. Oh, my gosh. You watched Parasite, right? I didn't. Oh.

I know. Oh, it's edge of your scene. I need to get it together. It was, I need to watch more film and television. I watch, I mean, when I have time, I watch a lot of spline because I have time to sit and focus. Right. Yeah. It's very fun, though.

I don't know how we're translating that to your new party company, but we are now. Oh, yeah. I don't know either. Well, you don't know who's there and you just talk to each other through a whole. But you know each other's voices if it's your friends. Well, maybe it's. It's people that aren't that close front. I don't know. Okay, whatever.

You switch groups. You go to other people's parties instead of your own. Oh, that's interesting. What if you had two different parties, but there's a side quest where you have to figure out something or like prank each other. They could get really elaborate. I think we should. This is just the beginning. But also fun.

So fun. Plotting people's chaotic weekends. I love it. massive fights, by the way. I know. It could go south, but we got to try. You're going to have to do ground rules of like, please don't touch on anything that you know would be activating. Would be activating.

Exactly. Activating, so it's such a helpful term. It really isn't it? She has a lot of, I feel like Ruthie and her have probably a lot of the same terms. Probably. She's very helpful. Bless your ministry. God bless yours.

Yours. I need you to talk to the listeners about olive oil in your coffee. Yeah, so Rachel got me a latte. And there's this thick, yellow. It couldn't look worse. It looks so creepy. It looks so gross. It looks like someone peed in the top of your coffee.

Oh, God. But I don't know why you got olive oil in my drink. Are you meant to shake it up? I think you are. It was an accident. But you know oil. It's actually very famously doesn't mix. Right.

Very famous thing. You know oil. It's a very famous thing. Yeah. It says it. It was an accident because they offer this one new line of olive oil drinks. And I accidentally clicked that because I was like doing the before order because I was like, oh, you did it online. You didn't just ask for it.

No, I didn't accidentally say. But it tastes great. Give me an olive oil coffee. Would you get it again? Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Here's the thing maybe. So is great, too strong a word?

No, this tastes delicious. Okay. However, I don't know only because of the way it looks, but it is a great way to get some healthy fat into your coffee. But my question is, because it's separated, are you just tasting the latte that you ordered? And then you get to the bottom and it's just thick olive oil coming up your straw. That sounds terrible. I think this tastes delightful. You're like, that's your latte.

That's the part that you ordered. You know, oil. You know oil. You know oil. But you do. I do. I know we're not going about. Oh, my God.

Okay. Oh, it's so good. I don't know. I probably wouldn't order it again. That's the real truth. That's the truth behind it. Yeah. she said I accidentally ordered a little on your drink.

I was like, how does one do that? I know. You're me. So weird. I added shoelaces to your latte. I'm so sorry they're in there. It's just, I don't know. I didn't even know they offered that.

It's just, you know. Oh, my God. What would you do if you found a dead body in your hotel room? Oh, nice pivot. You're welcome. Pain. Trauma. Am I waking up to the dead body?

I need a little more. Like if I'm checking in, then I would complain. How would you complain? I would be like, ah. No, I would run or scream. I would complain. I would complain. Do you have one of those little cards?

I have. I have feedback. Yeah. I have feedback. paint the picture a little more. I can't. I would complain. Well, now I know that you were just complaining if I was there when he checked in,

so let's go with you. You wake up to it. Okay. If I, okay, did you see that show, the flight attendant? I haven't watched it. Okay, you did. So I feel like in the first episode, this happens to her. She wakes up to a flight attendant.

A damp man in her bed. In her bed? In her bed. And that's like the... That's the hook. Okay. Because she like... It's a good show.

She has like, you know, a drug problem or something and she like went a little while. So it's like, what did I do? So that's a scenario where what did I do? What did I do? If I didn't know the person... Yeah. Yeah. If I didn't know the person...

Hmm. It would vary. Like if it's someone, no. I would, I think I would feel so confident of my innocence. Yeah. That I would immediately run. Complain. No, I would complain.

I'd be like, there is a dead person in my bed that I did not order. I did not order. Your breakfast card you leave out on the car. I'm like looking for the cart. Can you all come clean this up? It smells. It's the best answer we've gotten so far. Oh my God.

Oh my God. That's so good. I don't know what I would do, honestly. But the fact that you take the time, you know, if you had to adopt a celebrity, who would it be? And they live in my home. Yeah. They're yours. You adopt them.

Cute. Well, Kevin Hart would fit. I have a very small house. Let me think. let me think who do I want just around in my home yeah I mean Maya Rudolph came to mind Amy Sedaris like someone that's like what a dream what a dream what a dream what a delight hold on for one you want to like get into it yeah I want to laugh yeah I want to have deep talks I just feel like they could like nail it Jennifer Coolidge I think would be a delight

like I would be a like I'm coming over yeah Yeah. That's perfect. That's a great answer. All right. What can you say during sex that you can also say at the dinner table? I'm so self-conscious during sex. Like, I want to be like a hot talker.

Yeah. But the moment I say something, I'm like, wow, I am so embarrassing. Like, it is so embarrassed. Because that nature that I have of the 30,000 foot view, the best part of sex is the oblivion of self where you're just like lost in the moment. Yes. But the moment I speak. Yeah.

You're out. It takes you out completely. I'm like, imagine what you look like from a distance. This is so embarrassing. So I mean, I want that in my mouth. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. We haven't had that one.

I want that on my mouth. Or I'm about to eat that. Oh. I hope to go to dinner with you. Oh, my. And your food comes and you just look at it, I'm about to eat that. Yeah. And then I hope someone walks by and you say the same thing.

I'm about to eat that. I'm about to eat that. Oh my God. See, you got a taste of Jed. Yes. Aren't you grateful? Yes, I belong to the church. I'm a devotee.

We are all devotees to the Church of Jed. My God, I love you. I love you. I love you so happy that you have come back into my life. I know. But we're like gone. But like we didn't see each other. I know.

It wasn't right. It wasn't right. And it now needs to. That's actually, I'm such a big believer. I'll never forget my friend's therapist. She was like, she was like dating the wrong guy or like trying to whatever. And she was like so in love with them, but he wasn't right for her. And the therapist said never disrespect a connection.

Ooh. And just what that means is like it is so hard to have a cosmic connection with someone. Yeah. The timing might not be right, whatever that is. Yeah. And I feel that. with friendships too, where it's like, when you're living this life or whatever and when the universe brings you together for a moment and you're just like kindred algorithm souls

where you just like fit. And then life takes you over here. It's so fun that you found each other because you know, like that a certain type of algorithm is not temporally based. Like you could not talk for 10 years and it's boom, you're back. Yeah. It's the best. Because you're in the same river. You know, and we have friends that were based on circumstance and time. Where, Sure. You had a moment and then you both grow apart and then you see them again and there's like nothing to talk about except the time you were together. Right. Yes.

And that's fine too. But that's a type of. But that's a type of soul. That is a type of soul. But there are certain friends where you can see them after like years and it's just like. And I did not let you. Yeah. Click.

I was like, oh my God. That feels so good. Yeah. Those are the really, those are the connections that are really special. Yeah. You're life giving. Yeah. You're life giving.

So are you. Oh my God. I love you so much. We're so excited. Mother Nature. Yes. Everybody. Mother Nature, it's out wherever books are sold.

So, read it. What's your favorite? And if you want to listen to it, I read it. You're doing the, oh. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. And I do my mom's voice. Not extremely.

I do just a light. Can you give us a little taste? Well, it's just like I talk like this because that's like, you know, just give it a little twang. A little twang. A little twang. Because a lot of the book is conversations between us. Yeah. And, like, blow out fights.

So you have to do both sides. Well, and it was very, like, there are chapters in here that I didn't, I wasn't even able to edit them because they're so activating that I wrote them once. And I was like, I can't see this again. And my editor did it. Thank God. And he did a great job. Right. And so the next time I read it was doing the audible book where I'm doing the characters.

Wow. But having a purpose of plans. playing both roles and having the purpose of doing it helped me do that. But it was still very like, there's a certain type of sweating, like emotional sweating that is different. It's like more like grimy or something because you're just like your whole body's gently just like stressed. It's a trauma response.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. But yeah. Therapeutic for sure. But the book is also fun and funny. It's not trauma. Well, it's you.

Yeah. It's like the whole. It's how you take life. It goes up and. go. Well, I'm so excited. You know oil. Yeah.

You know oil. You know oil. That's the tagline for this episode. And from now on. Yeah. I'm just going to text you every once in a while. Well, you need to re-record that you're going to order that every day and get that damn oil to sponsor this show. There you go.

Yeah. And that's hard to thing. It's like, you know oil. You know oil. Yeah. No. Just randomly. It's going to get texts.

You know, what could be a fun, you know, oil question is what is that? What does that? What doesn't mix? Which could just be like, what's a non-negotiable in your life? What doesn't mix? Like, for me, it's people who are always late. Oh, I can't see on that. Like.

She's like, hmm, this friendship isn't going to work. I'm not like, I'm punctual. Oh. No, no, she's punctual. Oh, I'm punctual. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was more like, mm, that's, see, cosmic soul connections. Yeah, I just like.

You were never late. No, no, on timers. But it's, but what I've. I actually want to get in the mind of someone who is always late because I'm like... Me too. Because some of my favorite people are always late. Really? But their brain is like not calculating something that I don't know what that's not calculated.

Right, right. I don't understand it. Yeah. Like, there's someone who's... And they're just like, their flight at LAX leaves in 30 months. Oh, my God. And they're in... That I can't.

And I'm like, how are you not stressed? Yeah. And they're like, I am stressed. They're like, but I'm not dressed yet, so I've got to go. Yeah. I just cannot. K.B. was always like that and probably still is. Like, she does not want to get to the airport early.

I can't. I have to be early. No, I don't need to be there three hours early. No, but enough time to feel not stressed. I don't even want to have to walk with a slight, brisk pace. I just want to stroll. Yeah. I want to time it to where I'm with you.

I'm with you. I'm with you. Yes. Strolling is key. I always wonder, what are they doing there. I'm not. Because I'm like, I know I have to be there at this time. A shower, get ready.

Right. What are they doing? Yeah. I know. But I know people as far as flying goes, they're like, well, there's always another flight. But I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah.

I missed a flight for the first time in my life. But it's because I got the time wrong. Oh. But that felt horrible. I'm like I'm always early, ready. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that was the air. Surprising. It happens. Like, you got the time wrong, like you read it wrong or you just remembered it wrong? No, they didn't. They changed the time, but didn't send me an update. Are you sure?

I'm positive. I didn't get the time wrong, but it still felt bad because I'm like, what did I miss? They normally like text you or email. They didn't. I know. There's certain things that are evil. Like, I was at an airport and they delayed the flight two hours, two hours. Two hours.

I'm in the airport. So I'm like, well, I'm going to go, I don't even know what. I like, you know those like in airport massage places, like Express spa or whatever, where they're like your faces in that hole and you're on display for everyone to get a background. I've never done it. Well, I have. And I'm doing this and that. But did you know that when they delay a flight two hours, they can, if they can figure it out, they can bump it right back up instantly.

Oh, what? Yeah. It's not. The delay is not guaranteed. It's not permanent. Put a permanent way. So you better not go anywhere. Oh, wow.

You better not maximize your time. They might bump it back and say, oh, we're back. That's, no. We're beginning boarding. So I was like. Face down. I was suffering. And, well, what it was is I was like, I'm going to take a nap.

I'm like dead. And I like fell asleep and I woke up the plane left. Oh, my God. Be aware. That is very, very aware. That is a fair warning. I was not aware of that. No.

No, I've learned so much today. I know. Me too. Oh my God. Well, I love you. I love you. Thank you for sharing and coming. If you ever need someone to answer your questions,

you're our guy. I think you are just our go-to. Yeah. Like, we're going to bring you in. Yeah. Like once a month, whatever,

whenever you're available, and we're going to just have you do these questions. Yeah. It's my favorite. That'd be so fun. No, you're the, you are the person to answer.

Yeah. Done. Yeah. Or just like a little side segment sometimes. Yeah. It'll be a side segment, too, where we workshop our questions. And we see, you know.

Question Workshop. Yeah. We have so many. I feel like you would really get into it. Done. Yeah. And then people can also write into us with their questions and you can answer them. This is my dream life.

Yeah, I know. Well, you're living it. Yeah. It's happening now. Feels good, right? You know. Love you. Don't ever leave.

Don't thank you. I just heard the door lock. We can't cut the cord. I know. I'm taking the stem cells from this invulical cord. Oh, God. Remember when we talked about longevity? Yeah.

You know what you should do with this episode? What? Is you should go, on today's episode, we talk about and then just list the things, like, dating AI, longevity, family relationships, hiding dead bodies. Just like to give people like a clue of like where we're headed. And you're like, what? Oh, my God. And we walked across America.

And Africa. And Africa. I mean, you didn't even say he rode your bike from how to go. Oh, yeah. So my first book, my first book. Sorry, wait. So my parents walked across America. And then I was inspired by them.

When I turned 30, I quit my job because I was like, I want to be a writer. That's my dream. But I don't know what to write about. So maybe if I go on a big adventure and I'm a bad writer, at least the adventure is interesting. So I quit my job and rode my bicycle from Oregon to the bottom of South America for a year and a half. Do you believe that? That's so insane. Do you believe that?

It was awesome. I mean, I do only because I know. Because I believe it. I know. I mean, so cool. So that, that's a fun adventure. Yeah. That is a fun adventure.

I probably will never do it. So read to shake the sleeping self. Shake the sleeping self. Now read Mother Nature. And then read into Jed's mind a little bit because everyone should live there for at least a portion of their life. It's a nice place. It is a nice place. Good.

Anyone should stay. while. Airbnb. You might have, there might be confessions in there. I'm so excited for the confessionals. I know. Okay, I know we have, okay.

We love you. Okay. Love you, love you, love you, love you, love you. Guys, so I haven't seen each other, well, we haven't seen Rob. Since the holidays and stuff. How was your holiday?

It was good. Was Seattle rainy? Yeah, it rained quite a bit. Why did you go to Seattle? The food? Why wouldn't we go to Seattle? So what do you got against Seattle? Nothing.

She just wants to know why that was the decision. Most people are like, oh, I went to see my uncle Barry. Does Rob have an Uncle Barry? Because that would be amazing. No, we've got friends up in Seattle that, and we've been trying to go to Seattle for a while and wanted to go somewhere for the holidays that wasn't home or to see family. Oh, got it. So we looked at where we could get flights out of Burbank to.

Always a wise decision. Always a good decision. Except our flight was two hours delayed on Christmas Day. It was? That's always going to happen around that time. You think because of the holidays? It was weather. The plane was just coming in.

Usually weather. Yeah. Oh, you just mean around that time because of the season. The holidays usually fall in the season of winter. Yeah. Got it. Okay. So we went up there.

And you had good food, I would imagine. A ton of good food. We had a very full schedule. Yeah, we saw your schedule. Rob sent us a full breakdown of their schedule. It was like itemized and organized and in columns like a proper chart. I've never seen anyone travel like that. Never.

Yeah, well, I had put on social media requests for recommendations of specific things. So, like, where should we go to lunch? Where's nice dinner? Where's coffee? Where should we take the kids? Starbucks. We got a lot of people who said Starbucks. Did you?

Yeah. So then we, I put it into an Excel doc. And then... How does Natalie feel about that doc? Like, does she appreciate it? She... You got big doc energy? She's the same way.

So then, like, from that dock, we put together a schedule when we got there. Wow. And then there was, like, an argument of, like, Like, do we put the days in columns or rows or... Right. Oh, my God. Respect. And then hourly, what we're doing?

Hourly? Or nap time. I mean, it was just like before nap, after nap, is essentially. But do you follow it? We followed it pretty closely, yeah. Wow. Otherwise, we're just stuck in the Airbnb with the kids. No, you can go to...

You have options. No, either follow this Excel doc to the hour. Because I've never done an Excel doc in my life And we don't get stuck in the Airbnb We go, what do you feel like doing? Let's go to the whatever and let's eat. Well, yeah, but then we feel like we're missing out on things And there was a whole list of things we wanted to do.

It's great. Places we wanted to go that needed reservations. What was the favorite thing you ate? So hungry. This place, Pancida. What did you get? Go further. Yeah, I want to know the dish.

We had good, we had really good. We had really good tacos and food there. I'd like to do a food tour. We're going to put together the Rob food tour. We're going to do this. Yeah, I would, I want to live like that. I just don't. You should develop like an app.

Ooh, that's so smart. You really should. And it's like, you have to be like invited and like it's more like exclusive. And if you get in. The riah of food app. The rob, the rob a. You have to know someone. The problem is they have to be updated like,

fairly frequent. And you can't travel that much to get this or, well, whatever. We can figure it out. Oh, yeah, because we're going to do it. We're going to figure that one out. We're going to figure that one out. Rachel's got this. Rachel's got this.

You know what I got? What? Orthopedic sneakers. So are they actually technically orthopedic or are they just really comfortable sneakers? They're recommended for like orthopedic. For old people. You guys, I'm obsessed though.

I don't know if you know, they're Hokas. You've heard of hope that. Do you work for them? No, but I am a huge advocate because I am walking on clouds. Is it making your foot better? It's more comfortable to walk. So I've had a foot. I don't know if I talked about this before, did I?

Yeah, he did. Okay, so it's still going on. It's been at least like a month and a half now probably. I did finally go see someone and they think could be a cyst in my foot. How is that? I don't know. It's bizarre. Anyway, I'm going to a podiatrist this week, so don't worry, everybody.

She'll keep us something. Next week, I will keep you posted. But I kind of am loving, just wearing my old lady sneakers. They're really cute. They're actually cute, right? Jeff just got a pair. They're not platform like that, but he got a pair of the running shoes. I was trying to convince people to get these and if they're runners.

And certain people I was talking to were like, no, that's all you. because I think the platt, like the many layers. They don't have to be plat. No, I know. They got them in running. And when we went to the store, I was like, you're not buying those. What are those? They're cool, you guys.

And that's what everybody that worked there was saying, they're like, those are the single best running shoes. Yeah. We're not getting paid for this. We're not getting paid for this. And I'm trying to convince people like they need to convert. But it's okay. We'll get there.

It was like you getting caught out a Christmas shopping in your crocks. Listen. Yeah, but that's cute. I'm a huge crock. advocate too. I don't give a... You like your big comfy shoes. I love crooks. I like to be comfortable, you guys. I remember, I will give you credit. You've been like this with shoes since before. Like, we were like 19 years old. Yeah. And I swear to God, you started wearing ugs. Oh. Way before anyone was wearing them. Ironically? No. She was... Because they were, my feet were warm and comfortable. Yeah, you would wear ugs. And I'm being like, do people do that?

Is that like a thing? And then it became a huge sensation. Ugs did become a huge sensation. But you were ahead of the curve. Thanks. I just like to be comfortable. Yeah. And Hocas are now part of my fabulous trio.

I love them. I think they're cute. Hocas. Thanks, a cute color, huh? Yeah. Yeah. You want to know. Yep.

I would look, I would probably look silly because my feet are big. Well, you don't have to get all the platform if that's what you're thinking. But I kind of want you to put them on your foot. And walk around. I try to make people try on my shoes and my feet are so small. Like, I'll make guys like a man be like, hey, you have to feel how comfortable this is. And it's just their toe. That'll fit.

I just any man I meet, I say put my shoe on. All right. We're back. How was your holiday? Yeah. I was in the Great White North. You guys, I went tubing on a day where it was. 16 degrees outside.

Wait a minute. Did you, you would reach those levels in Chicago. Oh, like snow tubing. Nothing? No. 16. Yeah. 16 degrees.

Fahrenheit? Yes. Yeah. What kind of tubing? Snow tubing. Okay. That's what I thought. Not like river tubing.

That's what I thought because you said it like, can you believe? No, it was just really cool. Can you believe I want sledding? Yeah, it was like cold. But you know what's so interesting? It was so cold, right? and there you're bundled or whatever you expect the cold. Here it was like 40 degrees in the morning.

I'm taking her to school and I'm like, I can't take it. It was weird. I had that sensation too. It was pretty cold in Seattle. Oh. Which I liked it. It was like 30 to 40 at night. And then coming back here and it was cold.

Wait a minute. This is much warmer, but why I feel so cold? It's like not supposed to be that. It's never been this cold here. It's, right? No, it does this every year. I don't think so. Guys, you're going to be really excited about something.

What? I was flying back. Oh, is it? I was flying back on the airplane. And, like, so now I'll pay attention to, like, weird little things. Like, you know. And be like, oh. I could talk about that on my podcast.

I have something to talk about. And usually he'll make a note on my phone because of my memory. And I was in the airport, actually. And, you know, your public restrooms, like, ble. Well. Always, I always put, you know, you. you always put stuff down on the seat, obviously, to sit, to go to the bathroom. And I was like, this is the biggest pet peeve of mine.

What? If you put stuff down, but someone has gotten pee on the seat before you, and you sit down and you can feel the, like, cold, like wet. We've talked about this. No, we haven't. Yeah. I want to get stuck to your butt? Does it get stuck to your butt?

No. Oh, this is different. No, not that it gets stuck to your butt. That you're like, oh, my God, is it seeping through and someone's pee is That's why I don't sit on the seat. You squat. Yes. The women's room has pee on the seat.

That's what I don't. Because the people that don't sit and squat. Oh, Olivia, that's spraying all over it. No, I put a toilet seat covered down and then squat. And then squat. Well, that's very considerate of you. See, I appreciate that. It's also insane.

Why is that insane? Why? That's considerate. I don't want to sit on someone's pee. That's gross. Do you put the seat up every time you pee? No. Men's, it's like the... No, I know, but at home or whatever.

At home, yeah. You always put it up. Yeah. Right? Put it back down. Oh, yeah, do you put it back down? Yes. Does Jeff put it back down?

Rob, I got to tell you. Respect that. I really like that. Not only that, you've got good toilets. I love me. Oh, he has the fancy toilet. He does. Every time I'm like, warm and it flashes for you.

It feels so good. It feels welcoming. It's the best investment, I think I've made. I agree. Every time I go to your house, I'm like, Like, no. So, Breyer, like, in Canada, there's, like, that type of toilet. And Breyer has just discovered how amazing it is. So good. She's like, I'm going to the good toilet. Yeah. I just moved. And my toilet seats are freezing. Freezing.

But you didn't have heated toilet seats? No, but there's something different. Like, they're, like, old school, like that, like, whatever they need. Do you guys have you ever sat on like the cushion seats? I'm going to replace them. You can get the like they have the bidays that aren't like the full toilet either. Yeah, but does it make you warm? Yeah, I think you can do heated seat. I need a heated seat.

Oh, that sounds present. What's the one brand not Toto but. Oh, I know. Tushy, I think maybe. Tushy. Tushy. I think Tushy makes just like. Really?

Add-ons to regular toilets because the Toto I have is the whole toilet. That's the whole toilet. I think I'm going to get that for Briars or next. Express and Chewley is so excited. You guys, and I know I've said this before, and while we're on the subject of, like, peeing in public, the level of, like, pee anxiety I get in situations where it won't come out. It's so frustrating to me.

Yeah. Like, Breyer and I went on the airplane, and she still wants to go together. And she's getting big guys. Those airplane bathrooms are really small. Anyways, when we go in, and the flight attendant's, like, we'll go now because there's going to be turbulence, right? I'm like, fine. So we go in there and the turbulent starts.

And I'm like, oh, you know, fuck. We got to pee quick so we can get back because they're like, everyone buckle, blah, blah, blah. So that anxiety, I was like, oh, my God, like my pee is not coming out. Yeah. It's like that anxiety. I don't have. No. What?

Am I the only one? Seems like when you're by yourself, especially in like a solo bathroom. No. No, it's not when she's by herself. It's like pressure. No, it's only if there's someone waiting to. use it, right? Or, you know, instances like that, it's not as easy to pee.

You've always had that, though. Always. Like, I could tell, like, I would get, like, overprotective of who would go to the bathroom with us because I knew if certain people came in in the bathroom with us, you wouldn't be able to pee. And I'd be like, like, don't. Like a weird dog. I'd be, like, don't come in with us. She's not going to be able to pee.

Wouldn't be able to pee. It's true. And I cared. You didn't. You were concerned about my peeling. I'd be like, don't let Bonavie in. Rachel won't be able to pee and then we're going to have come back. What is that?

Oh, that's so weird. I feel like it's also like, what? You know what it is? What? What were you going to say? I remember this one time. Leah's sister, Sophia, we went into a bathroom. We were like at hotel cafe and we all, girls go to the bathroom together.

You know, like we all like. piled in the bathroom and she was like trying to pee and then she kicked out one of the girl. That's amazing. It was like Bridget or something. She was like, I'm so sorry, but like, can I ask you to leave? Rachel can't pee? It wasn't me.

It was Sophia. No, sure. That's amazing that she could advocate for herself in that way. It wasn't Bridget, but we did go pee under a bridge in Santa Monica with Bridget. Bridget will pee anywhere anytime. Yeah. I've never seen anyone able to pop. a squat like that. That's a friend of ours. I will say, though, I think, I'm going to go out on a

limb here. Do it. I think the most level of comfort in a relationship, if you're like, come, come pee with me. Like, if you can pee in front of your partner. With a significant other? Yeah. Like, you feel safe and can pee. And like, where are you doing? Or like, you're out in public and you're like, I don't want to just, will you come with me? Like, if you can't ask that. To the women's room? Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not like a, I'm, my point more being, or even, Even in the house. He's saying like when you get to the point where you feel comfortable enough to be like, I can pee in front of this person.

I feel like that's love. I can't in front of anyone. I can be in front of anyone. I know you can. But for me, I feel like that's love. Yeah, that's what. I can pee in front of you. I would never do anything else.

You'd never go number two in front of you. Never. I don't understand that. Like relationships are like, yeah, the door's open and I know you guys don't. You don't understand people that can't. No. That can't poop in front of their. do that.

No. No. I cannot do that. No, I cannot do that. Like literally. I don't even. No, you don't even. No.

We said toot. No. No. We're on the same page here. Yeah, I know you are. I feel like if you're sitting there with the door open taking a poop, like there's just. You're too comfortable. It's too comfortable.

It's too comfortable. No. And like if Jeff will. fart? Because guys seem to be a little bit more comfortable than women. Some. I just remind him that he won't get sex. What? You say if you fart, I will not have sex with you? I say that's not sexy.

Oh. And if you want that. Talking like a little kid. Yeah. You can't do that. Mama doesn't find that sexy. If you want that. No, no. No.

Just kidding. If you want that nana. I would never talk like that. Oh, yeah, great question. She's a vagina. Vigina? Yeah. Like even like sexy talk?

You would be like... Oh, Natalie, I want your vagina. I don't say that, so... It's so good. It's so good. So if Calvin... Okay, I guess it's different because you don't have daughters. I'm going to call it pussy in front of Calvin.

No. What if they? What if you did? Oh, my God. I was traumatized. Traumatized. Because your brother made you watch porn when you were before? No.

Rachel, this deep trauma. No. Like second grade or something, first or second grade, we were reading the book, James and the giant peach. Yeah. And there was like a big peach. And the kid next to me. I can't even say it. He said, I bet that's what your P word looks like.

He said pussy. Yes. In second grade. That's why I've always hated that word. I whisper it for some reason. That's why I've always hated that word because him saying that to me. A second grader? He said, I bet that's what your looks like.

And I remember being. The things that come out of these. Traumatized by that. Like, I hated that word ever since and like kind of. You've never used it, like in sex talk? I'm over it now. I'm over it now. You're like, no, I say it all the time.

I say it on the daily. I can say it now, but like saying it in that context still makes me feel weird. Right. Because it was gross and traumatizing. It's weird when kids cling on to. Like a month or two ago, I think I texted you guys this. I went to the Arts District, Maru, and I took Calvin. Yeah.

And we had to park by the Playpen, which is a strip club. Oh, right. Oh. And Calvin was like, because the logo is like a naked woman. Yeah. And he's like, what is that? And I told him, I was like, that's where people dance naked. And he goes, oh, like my friend at school's mom's parties that she has.

And I was like, wait, what? What are you talking about? And we didn't really get into it too much because he didn't know how to explain it. But now he brings up naked dance. dance parties at school, like to the other kids. Oh, no. So now I think the parents probably think we're the ones having these naked dance parties. Could you imagine showing up to Rob's with him and Natalie just open the door butt-naked for a naked dance party?

Here's the thing. To a kid, though, that probably sounds fun. Because my kids have, you know, like, that sounds fun to a kid. Yeah, yeah. A naked dance party. It's like, oh. But he knows it's inappropriate because he called it like sort of a bathroom word, but not really. What's that mean?

Bathroom words, what they had his preschool, you weren't allowed to say bathroom words. So like pee or poop. So what would you say? You can say it if you have to go to the bathroom. You don't say it at the dinner table. I thought you meant they were allowed to use that if they had to go to the bathroom. No, no, no. But they can't say like penis and things like that because those are bathroom words.

That's how they. like associated inappropriate words that they're not supposed to say. Got it. So he like gets that it isn't something he's supposed to talk about but it's just like stuck with him

and he won't stop talking about I love that. He's naked parties. Naked dance parties. We know what you guys were up to on the TV. Oh my parents just having a naked dance party. Oh, I thought you were saying your parents. No, no, I'm sure they did.

But no. If anyone would have, it would have been them and your mom. Oh, my mom. Talk about her and my stepdad door open policy. So, you know, everything flies there. What did you guys do for New Year's? Where was I? Did you make it?

Oh, yeah, I was in Canada. Breyer threw like a whole party. She was so into it. It was really cute. Just for. For herself. For her self. Oh, for the family.

Yeah. Oh, okay, got it. She got really into it. It was really cute. Hmm. Would you guys do? I went to sleep. This was like day six of our trip, so we were exhausted.

And we went to bed at like 10. Did you do the countdown like fake for the kids? Nope. We did all the countdowns. They were up till midnight? No, I mean, like, well, they, Elliot was. We went to our friend Matt's house. Oh, you went.

Yeah, we were just like cozy. He made tacos. that kind of thing, but we did the countdowns of like New York. New York. And then we did Chicago. Chicago. Exactly. I don't love New Year's Eve. Do you?

No, I mean, were you going to get a sitter and ask someone to babysit and ruin their New Year's Eve? We found a sitter in Seattle that we used a couple nights. That was great. But I felt rude asking her to come on New Year's Eve. I think it depends on their age. You know? She was like 30. Yeah, she probably wants to do something.

But if they're older. Calvin got to see his favorite band again in Seattle. Oh, my God. You guys loved them. Who did you see? We saw the head and the heart. I just wanted you to say. I get scared sometimes.

Well, I know who you went to dinner with. I didn't know you went to their show, actually. I know you sent us a picture, but I... That's why we stayed so long. because she was like, we're playing the winter classic hockey game, which I'm all about. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's fine. Who was playing?

It was the Seattle Cracken and the Vegas Golden Knights. What's the Seattle's hockey team's name? The Cracken. Cracken? They're new. They're like two or three seasons old. Yeah, I've never even heard that. Cracken?

Like, what's Cracken? Or Cracken shell crabs? Like the sea creature. Yeah. Wait, wait, hold on. What's Crackin is not. That's the thing. No, I know, but that's not about the sea creature.

No, those are two separate things. The sea creature called a kraken? Yeah. What is it? It's like a big octopus. Oh. Yeah. Have you ever heard of a crackin?

Nope. Nope. Release the kraken? Nope. No. I can't say that I've heard of this cracking octopus before. And I feel like I know crustacean. That's not a crustacean.

I don't, I think it's like a mythological. I don't know if crackens are real. I know crustacean. Oh, me? I know crustaceans. I know crustaceans. That's not one. Too much caffeine, no food.

I wish. Let me catch it. Too much caffeine? Yeah, I want to catch a bud. I would be so early. I'm so tired. I don't like it. Except in the basement last time.

Why? Were you trouble? No, no. The dog has a hot spot. And Natalie was insisting on letting the dog sleep in her. room. She was? And you won't sleep in the bed if the says she's itching all night? The night before I did and she was licking and itching and noise. I didn't sleep at all. And I was like, I'm not, the dog's in here. I'm not going to be in here. Here's a thing. Can you not sleep if it's not like silent

and completely dark? We were just talking about that. If there was like a white noise machine, that would have been fine. I have to sleep with that every night. You sleep with white noise every night? Every night. Because Jeff snores. So now I have had to start wearing earplugs. It's not comfortable. I can't stand them.

I don't like them. That's a big issue. Oh my God, it's such a big issue. I'm tired. For me to have a partner that snored. Sleeping in Seattle, though, because it was raining every morning. Yeah. Was like pretty trippy of like, I normally can't sleep past like seven.

7.30. Yeah, we slept in accidentally until like 8.30. See, to me that sounds like, I couldn't tell you the last time I did that. But it, because it wasn't sunny and you couldn't like look at the window and see what time it was, we just kept sleeping because it was rainy. That's amazing. That's like a Vegas casino. Yep. You have no idea what time it is. Yep.

I cannot. I have the hardest time with light. Sleeping with light. Oh, I used to fall asleep with the TV. on, like all the time? No, I don't do that. Now I don't, it's really hard for me. Or if I fall asleep and it's still on, it'll just keep waking me up. I can't sleep with TV on anymore. Huh?

Sleep timer on the TV. You're so smart. I can't fall asleep with it anymore. I can't sleep. I mean, I can fall asleep when it's on. But like, not asleep asleep. Not asleep asleep, but you put it on and I'll fall asleep. But then I wake up and it's the really, it's the snoring. I'm losing my mind.

The snoring is really a thing. I'm trying to get him to sleep. sleep in another room, but now my brother's in our guest room. So you don't have that option. No. Well, if the boys are in your bed, put Jeff in the boy's bed. I do sometimes. Yeah. You pick him up in the middle of the night when he's sleeping and put him in his bed. I asked him to move over the other night, like to roll to your side. And he went, no. I was like, dude, I can't sleep. Uh-uh. That's like, it's like a new partner and you like, start sleeping over, you know?

Yeah. And you're just like, print. You're like, oh, my, it's like boomering and the feet. Like, if you lift the sheets and like the feet are good, you know, I'm dating myself. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Eddie Murphy movie boomering, right? Do you know this? No.

Right? Isn't it a thing in that movie where he's, like, obsessed with feet and, like, if she has pretty feet or something? I don't remember. It's something like that. So, anyway, that was a failed metaphor. Or is it a metaphor? Is it a... An example.

I don't know my example. I don't even have words right now. I'm not human. Okay. Yeah. Anyways, Rob. Cut me out of this one. But yeah, it's just a point is.

It's a big deal to discover, is this person a snorer? Because that would be very hard. Well, what do you do if they are? Break up with them. I am not with them anymore. No, I'm just kidding. I haven't actually encountered a severe snoring. problem. Oh, really? Ever? I don't know that I've ever been in a relationship with a severe snoring

problem. Did Jeff develop it? Or has he always been a bad snorer? He's always snored. He got a sleep apnea monitor. Does he have sleep apnea? We just got it. I was going to say, yeah, to see if he had sleep apnea. He claimed no one except for me has ever told him he snores. He doesn't believe that he snores. What? He says that about a lot of things. I'd be like, nobody besides you has ever told me that. And I'm like, what? That doesn't not make it true.

Yeah. I couldn't, oh, man, that's so hard. It's really hard. I feel like I'm struggling. Yeah. To be in a relationship with him? No, the relationship is all right. It's the, it's all right.

It's all right. No, but you're not sleeping. It's a sleeping part. That's so hard. Yeah, I was lucky. Like, the longest, like, never, I didn't have that issue. I would have gone crazy. Do you want to go through your partners and just name if they snored or not?

I'm just telling you, I've never had a real snore. Okay, I have a question. Having nothing to do with snoring. How would you feel about one of your friends hooking up with one of your exes? Let's say you had a relationship with someone that was great. And we all like that person a lot. And we would want them around, right? Yeah.

We'd want them still in our lives, part of the group. Yeah. And let's say we've got a handful of girls that are single. Women. Women. Grown-ass women. Would you be okay with one of your friends dating said person? So I think it's obviously circumstantial and what the relationship is like between the two that dated.

But would it matter who the first? friend is. Yes. Oh. Yeah, obviously. Uh, no. It wouldn't matter who the friend is. I know what you're talking about so I can speak specifically to this.

It wouldn't matter who the friend is. Not in that case? No, it would probably matter who the friend is. I think. What do you think? So, like, would you be more generous with certain people? Because I'll tell you the truth. Yeah.

That's been presented to me. Like, let's say people I've hooked up with in the past. right? I'd be like, oh, yeah. I'd be like, ew, no, so-and-so can't hook up with him. But if you were single, I might be like, let me. I might let you. It's like a generosity of like you can have him. And you're just saying hook up with or had like a long-term relationship?

No, like to set someone up with. Yeah. I'm saying anyone you hooked up with or are you just drawing this line for? No, I'm saying like a relationship or someone you hooked up with. Yeah, there's certain people I think that you would be more. generous way. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah. So, yeah. Because that struck me the other day, I was like, hmm, that person's single and that person's single. I know exactly everyone you're thinking in your head right now. And I was like, I wonder how that person would feel, you know?

Points to me. That person. You let Rachel with anyone and then. Yeah, because I know she would be okay with some people, but I'm curious about others. Interesting. What about you? Rob has no context to like compare or think about in that way, right? So it would depend on the person for you. You feel more stingy with some people and more generous with others. Yeah, but in this exact thing you're talking about, I really am thinking about it.

Yeah. Because, you know, I will say it's hard. Our group of friends is so close. Like, we've got a lot of people for so many years. So many years. And it becomes like a family. So, like, if you date in to that family, you get close with all these people. And then you have to say goodbye to that person when they break up.

And that kind of sucks for everyone. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Totally. Right? Yes. And I'm like, can't we just move?

pieces around on the test board. You're going to do a relationship question. Okay. You know who I'm talking about? Yeah, I'm really thinking about it. Because I thought, I was like, hmm. Yeah. Right.

Because I know. But I don't think he would. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you? Right. No. I don't know.

No, probably not. Iffy. on the fency. Yeah. Relationship question, Rob. All right. Let's do it. All right.

Me and my girlfriend got together three years ago in college and moved in together eight months ago. Talking about her family, her biological father died in a car accident when she was just two years old. Four years later, her mother remarried, a man who has a one-year-old son younger than my girlfriend. She has a great relationship with her stepfather, and it's especially close to her stepbrother because they were both little children when they met and have grown up together. She is very affectionate with him and vice versa, and I always found it quite endearing before we moved in together. He worked closely to where we live and visits our apartment usually once a month. When he comes, I have noticed unusual physical intimacy between them. Like extended very tight hugs, hand-holding, cuddling on the sofa and watching TV, and I found it quite uncomfortable.

Pause, pause. Hold on. Step-brother. Her stepbrother. And she was two and he was one when they met. Got together. But the girl and the stepbrother are engaged. The boyfriend is uncomfortable with the relationship. Got it.

It's like that episode of friends. Okay. Go ahead. Yes. Last night we were just casually talking about various things when the topic turned to families. I said to her that it's great that she has such a wonderful relationship with her stepfather and brother, despite not being biologically related. She laughed and said that she and her brother has taken. enough advantage of the fact they are not biological siblings.

I was very weirded out by this conversation and asked her to explain. She said that they used to fool around a lot, then caught herself mid-sentence and seemed to realize what she said. She immediately changed the subject and went down saying that she forgot to do laundry. I did not talk anything else and went to sleep. Today she was acting normally, went to her job, working from home but can't focus at all considering how strange last night. night's talk was. Would they have had any illicit relations? I really want to be wrong in this,

but how would I talk to her about this without making it all sound disgusting? It's creepy. Are they still step siblings? Are the parents still married? No. Oh, got it. Yeah. I mean, that doesn't really change much. Well, it depends. Like, if they got divorced, I don't know, you know, 20 years ago. Well, morally, there's technically. Yeah, but here's the thing. Let's break this down. Okay. So if just because two people grow up in the same house, right, like let's say we had a commune and my son and your daughter were friends from the time they were in our tummies and around each other since babies. And then when they grew up, they ended up hooking up. There would be nothing weird about that. Right. Right? But because the parents are. married that changes it. From a government convention. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like,

at first I'm like, that's so creepy and weird and all of that. But if you sit with it and think about it. But is it? Right. Because they're like forced brother and sister, but they're not actually related. Right. So I'm confused. Yeah. I think your instant reaction just as a society in the world, you're like, oh my God, but then when you actually think about it. Yeah, by a lot. there's nothing linking them. Obviously, she didn't think it was weird to say to her boyfriend, like, I mean, we fooled around. Yeah, he's just a hook up with my brother, whatever.

I mean, I think the bigger concern is that she's still that comfortable around him while in a relationship with. Right. Like the boyfriend's. Yeah. Well, that is the part that needs to be discussed is the boundaries of like, regardless of what happened in the past, this is a boundary I have. having a current relationship where your guys' physical intimacy makes me feel uncomfortable.

Yeah. Snuggling with an ex. Yeah. Yeah. I would say snuggling. If I walked in and saw Jeff snuggling on the couch with anyone, I would be wigged out, especially his sister. You like came home.

That would be the most. What would you do? traumatizing experience of my life. I'm just picturing it. And then he just casually said that they used to hook up. But I mean... Well, she clearly understands that it's going to be taken to be weird. Yeah, because it's taboo.

Yeah. You know, but if you really break it down, it's like what is so weird about that? To me, it's probably a little weird because they were probably really young. that's the part that's like, oh. Yeah, like how old?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is different living in a commune and not living in a commune. They grew up in a home together. Yeah. And had a sibling relationship from the young age. And they were in the same house, around the same age, and kids go through curiosity, whatever. 100%. So, I don't know.

They do. But it's weird. Their relationship, though, as siblings, even though they're not biological, it'd be the same as you and David. No, it's not Because we're biological But their relationship growing up Is the same It's disgusting

I know But it doesn't change I'm saying Oh I know wait We just took a weird turn I'm saying though Like in this situation

She was two and he was one Yeah that's gross And they grew up in the same house together That's the same as you and your brother Or you and your brother But there's something written in our DNA that makes it like, because I don't know what that is. It's like, if you say that, there's something inside of me that's like, it's like repulsive.

Yeah. Right? And I think that is our DNA so that we don't procreate. So you think it's just instinctually making that happen. Yeah, I do. I think there's something, I just, I think we might have talked about this that there was a brother and sister that the parents were going through a divorce while she was pregnant was twins. They gave birth to the babies. The father took one child and the mother took another child.

And they were like, that's it. Split. Split. Splitsies. Okay. Yeah. The kids came together, fell in love, got married and they are in a relationship. They are a biological brother and sister. Wait, what? My point was more, though, that. that the biological aspect isn't necessarily what would make it creepy. That's what makes it creepy. It's both. But the fact that you would have had the same relationship with David, whether he had a different dad or not, growing up in a household together.

But we have the same mom. We have the same DNA. I understand that. I'm not defending. I'm saying, though, I don't think her relationship, regardless of it being biological or not, would be any different with her brother. Oh, the actual relationship.

The actual relationship. I get it. I get it. Right. That familiar relationship between siblings. But there is something different. What's I'm asking is it. I think there's something different and I think it's genetic.

It's purely instinctual that's making it repulsive or? Yes. Yeah. I don't think it's relationship based. It's, I feel like it's like a genetic component. that we get an aversion to that because... I think it's both, though. Like, I think if they would have adopted David,

it wouldn't have, like, all of a sudden... And you, from... How old... What's the age difference between the two of you? Seven years? Can we use her as an example, please? No, I'm getting grossed out. Yeah.

I'm just saying... What's your difference between you and your sister? They're so close in age. Wait, how many years between you and your sister? Tell us, Rob. The fact that they're so close in age, and if it was adopted wouldn't have changed... that relationship.

Yeah, I get it. I wonder how much that happens. How many years, Rob? Like, step... So many. Seven. I wonder how much that happens with step siblings.

Is it a year and a half? It's four. It's four. You know? Say it again? I wonder how much that happens with step siblings. Yeah.

Where it's like they grow up together, their brother and sister, but like, I think that there's something... Look it. I think it depends on the age that it's happening. Like, I think if you're, like,

kids, in this case, two and one, like they don't know any better that they're not biologically related. I think to them it's the same. But if it's like a 13-year-old and he's got a 16-year-old sister that's coming into the equation, that's going to be different. He could very much be attracted to her. Right. Yeah. So weird. So weird. There's something about biological that's weird. So I know someone who was married, maybe not married. She had a baby. be with her second cousin and a few different people in their family are married to their cousins. What? Who? Yeah. Well, I guess, but so the biological thing is the only thing that makes it weird for you?

My first instinct was like gross, that's weird. But then when you think about it, it's like, what's the difference other than growing up in the same home? Well, I mean, there's like two big components of it. It's the biological piece and then the like family piece. No, it's just biological because to me it's not just as much about the family piece. Like let's say for instance, I have another brother, right, that I didn't grow up with that we met later on in life. It's equally as disgusting to think about because he is my biological brother. Right.

To me, it's the biological part. So if they're not biological... Except on first thought, you were repulsed by... On first thought, I was 100% repulsed. What about you? Can we not talk to me anymore? I love you. Yeah, no, the first thought is just a reaction

because you always react. And the reaction is, what? Like, no way. Yeah. But, like, thinking about it more and not knowing this situation. You're like, well, they're not biological. So it's just an interesting topic, I think, to talk about and think about because of our what's ingrained in us and, like, just reacting to it.

I don't know. I don't like this topic. Yeah, I guess to me, I think biological or not. Bless you. If you have a sibling that you've known since you were born, you could still, you would still have the same relationship. You would. I don't think the biological component. Understand that argument of growing up as brother and sister?

I have one of our audience members that always writes me, bless you. Are you serious? I know she always sneezes. Here's the thing. So it's not just biological. Okay. And here's why. If we were to do a DNA test and we were to find out your brother-

weren't actually biological. If your brother wasn't, there's no chance. You wouldn't decide to get married to him. That's, right. Right. That's a good point. If you found that out, I would still be like that's the most disgusting thing in the world. Yeah, that's the point I'm trying.

I think it's the two things. I think the biological thing, there is something instinctually happening, but then there's also that component. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. We did it, guys. We solved it.

We solved it. All right. Well. Anyway. It was a... Okay. That's a good note to end this episode on. What note was it?

That she wouldn't decide to marry her brother if she found out that they're not. Oh my God. That we. I think that was a joint. Never. No. My God, you guys. Long.

Please. I just can't. Can we just not? Oh. Stop. I know. I know. It's so gross.

Like, what is that? Stop. Nope. What you robbed that? Yeah. How does that feel? All right. Let's

turn this one. All right. Thanks, everybody. That was a hate gum podcast.