Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Katey Sagal on Surrogacy and Addiction

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Katey Sagal [Married… with Children, Futurama, Sons of Anarchy] talks with Olivia and Rachel about her surrogacy journey, addiction, and her husband writing make-out-scenes with her and other actors. They also discuss Rachel and Katey meeting on the set of 8 Simple Rules, guys that don’t have guy-friends, and women that overshare with other women.Broad Ideas is supported by Talkspace. Get $80 off your first month at Talkspace.com/IDEAS.Broad Ideas is supported by Paired. Connect with your partner every day using Paired – download the app at https://www.paired.com/IDEAS.Broad Ideas is supported by Green Chef. Go to greenchef.com/60broad and use code 60broad to get 60% off, plus 20% off your next two months.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, hear stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Hello. Hello. Happy New Year. Happy 2024. Oh, my God. That's crazy. That's a lot. I saw like 1999 somewhere. 1989 is the Taylor Swift album. 99.

The year I graduated high school and I'm like, that was so long. That was when the world was supposed to clap. Remember? Oh, yeah. 25 years ago. I was in my mom's house with my then high school boyfriend. Shout out. No.

No. And yeah, we were like, we're waiting. Is the world going to end? Guess what? It didn't. It did. In a lot of ways, it did. Yes.

Crazy. All right. This week we've got Katie's sick home. Oh, right. Is it like being with an old person? It's not not like being a little like this. You guys, growing up, if I think of my childhood, there is one show that instantly comes to mind and it's married with children. It was everything.

We all watched it. My grandfather, my pop pop, he, oh my gosh, he loved imitating Al Bundy. Anyway, Peggy Bundy, Katie's. Gaul joins us today and ICON. So excited. Olivia and I, I think one of our first bonding experiences

was married with children. Dunter-d-R-R-R-R-Vestable Garden. Dun-Tar-R-R-R-Tar-R-R-T-R-R-T-R-T-R-T-R-P. Peace. Yeah. We have so many and we could go on for hours. Him.

Anyway, she joins us today. We're very, very excited. She's amazing. Let's have Katie join us. Sometimes when the world's sick inside of Rachel's little brain, all these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids.

And things we'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys that I make you. Because people die. So, yeah, we were saying they were like, are you excited about today? And we both said, and we've talked to so many amazing people, but we both said we're a little nervous. Oh. You're so sweet. No, it's true.

You're the beyond iconic. You're the real deal. Like my whole life, though. But yeah. So one of the things that Olivia and I have been best friends. for almost 30 years, but one of the first things we bonded on because as kids, like, growing up and everything was married with children, obviously, I'm saying it. And it was my life. And my grandpa's fate, you know, just like we all, it was such an important part of growing up. And we often

that comes out a lot. Which song is. I had a feeling because Katie told me that you are like me and your memory. Yeah. No, like we did a rewatch of the show I was on. I don't remember. I'm like, not a single scene. I'm like, I don't remember. So there's a jingle that I believe Al, Al, Al sings.

He starts a vegetable garden. Okay. Do you remember this? Sort of. Don, d'etal and vegetable garden. Peas. Oh, my gosh. And he goes through all the.

But this is our thing. So it's one of the first. things that we bonded over. That's so wild. We couldn't not say just because of how iconic, you and that and everything. No, I don't. I'm like, I sort of forget them as I leave them. Right. On the day. Right. So I don't know what that is exactly. Some part of it feel. I'm kind of sad about that lately in my life when I think about, I think that when I was doing some of that work, I was so in my child rearing and my weird, my husbanding and my marriage. You know, I feel like I missed a lot of it.

Like I was just not present enough for it all. So there, yeah, I just feel like I kind of missed a lot of it. Right. Well, that's so interesting because you were raising children, right? Or like you were in that while working. Right. And it's such a unique thing. And I can relate because I have a young daughter.

And any time I've had to do it. you do feel like the real you is elsewhere. Yes. Right. And. And then you're kind of, you know, it's, I mean, I feel really blessed, which I'm sure you do too, and that I could, I had a job where I could have babies on my job and bring my babies to the job.

And so that was, I was so grateful for that. But it was still, you know, it's just so different now when there's more, there's more time to be present. And so I feel like, okay, now I'm, now I'm experiencing my life. Whereas before, I think I have to be reminded of my life. Yeah. Oh, wow. Do you think that that's because you have more space from it as far as like being so in it with the kids and all of that? Or do you think that's actual maturity and your evolution as a human? Oh, I think it's both. I think, you know, my older ones are in their 20s now and basically and doing well. I mean, they're around a lot, you know, more so than I, so I thought like they were going to, you know,

get to a certain point and bye-bye. We're all very close. So I see them a lot and they're around a lot and they still need a lot. And so there's that. But then I, and I still have a 16-year-old at home. So I think it's a combination of prioritizing and a combination of, yes, and getting older and having the more, the more realization that time is late. limited and so that you, you decide to be more mindful. You just decide, okay, I need to be where I am.

Yeah. Because I want to know where I am. Right. In a good way. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But just even hearing it, it's like, oh, it's reminding me. Right. Yeah. You know, because it's hard and it's hard to be present and everything. And I can't believe you still have a 16 year old at home. So that's still high school. I know. I'm like the oldest mom in school. I really, well, you know, I had a third child. with my third husband. I've just been a long time. I like how you say it though. Third child, third husband. And I had her when I was 50 with a surrogate. Oh, wow. This was a decision that we made because I met my husband, my current husband, and he had never had his own children. And he was step parenting my two little ones, four and six. And at the first, at the

beginning, actually on our first date, I think, or like within the first week, I knew, oh, I like this guy. So I cut to the chase. I was like, look, I'm a little bit, I'm like five years older than you. So if you're going to want to have kids, you better like say it now. Right. And he didn't. So I thought, okay, great. And then about five years down the line, we both started, started thinking about it. So we had frozen things and we decided to use a surrogate. And so I have Esme, and she's 16. I love that name. I know.

And it's, I read that you had a daughter via surrogate, and I feel like not a lot of people talk about that journey. Oh, it's quite a journey. Right? How was that for you? It was actually easy. You know, we were trying to either adopt or do surrogacy. So we sort of thought, let's try both. Adoption was way harder because when you go to adopt,

The adoptive, the mother has all the say. And this was very difficult for me because the lawyers were like, you can't ask any questions. Like I couldn't say, are you taking prenatal vitamins? Have you ever done drugs? Do you drink? You're not allowed to ask anything because they're supposed to choose you, right? It was kind of this set of rules, which I just have a big mouth. And it was very difficult for me not to ask those kinds of questions. And then surrogacy, my husband had never had his own bio-kid. So it was like, I think that was his preference, really. Yeah. But that was quite a journey too, you know, finding a surrogate, finding an agency, then getting to know the surrogate and being at all the doctor's appointments with the surrogate and being there at the delivery. And Esme came right onto me.

Oh, right as she popped out of the shoot. She came right on to me and latched on. I mean, it was really interesting. Wow. And I did that thing for a couple of weeks, you know, with the thing. The tube. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, we would go pick up breast milk at a gas station. It was like a drug deal or something. It was like, in the middle of the night, we're driving to a drug station to a gas station to pick up breast milk. We lasted about two weeks on it. But at least she got the initial good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah. It was quite a journey. Yeah. We've heard people talking about their journey, just the relationship you have with the surrogate. and picking it, but it's like a real, I don't know, bonding, or it could probably be different for everyone, but. Yeah, it's different. We decided not to continue the relationship. We felt, and I think that what happens is, like I sort of started to feel like her mom, you know, a little bit, right. You know, every doctor's appointment, how are your vitamins sending her a housekeeper?

She was this very sweet woman who had already had three children and her husband was, in the military. So she was, you know, she definitely was stretched. And, you know, so we, we were there as much as possible. We found her in Thousand Oaks, so it was a driveable situation. And then after Esme was born, though, we really made the decision that it was best to cut ties. Yeah. And that was our choice and worked out just better for us. And that's what we've done. Right. I feel like that would be the only way I could do it. Even like we've considered, my husband and I have considered adopting or fostering. And I'm like, I just don't want any relationship with anybody else's family at this point.

You know, I've got my own family. We've got our own. It's a lot. And bringing anyone else into that mix is a lot. It's a lot. Well, and I think then until the child is 18 and has a say, you know what I mean? Then, you know, a lot of adoptive, adopted. children want to go find their bio people. Right. So then then it's a different conversation.

Totally. As they're growing up, I understand that. Yeah, totally. But I also think there's a difference and I never know what I can and can't say. But I do, you know, between adoption and surrogacy because surrogacy is like your, you know. Yes. Your child. Absolutely. In a different oven. Yes. That's how we explain it. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which to me feels safer because at least you know what you're getting. That's my biggest concern is like in my family history, I would never ever, yes, I've had children, but I would never donate eggs because I'd be like you're getting lineages of alcoholism. You know, you're getting all the DNA of these people. And especially if you can't ask questions of what's your mental health like, what's your, all of those kind of

things, that's really taking on a lot. It was a lot when they, you know, when they a lawyer, you know, and then there's the whole celebrity part of it. And if they, you know, you talk to somebody on the phone and they would recognize my voice. And then it was all of a sudden like, oh, my God, this person, you know, why are we talking on the phone right now? And yeah, it's a lot. Unless you're going to go do, like I have a friend who has two adopted sons through the city. You know, it's not a close. I don't know the difference in the terminology. Like an open. Close or open.

Yeah. But not through a lawyer, but they just, he literally went and adopted children, which there are many. And just took what he got. And, you know, it's worked out, but challenges for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All kids have challenges. Oh, there's challenges.

Yes. That's the truth. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. They all come with stuff. They all come with stuff. Yeah. You know, yeah, it's hard being a parent.

It's hard. But it's so rewarding. It's so rewarding. Wait. How old are your kids? Mine's almost nine. Nine. And how about you?

Seven and four. Oh, you guys are in it. Oh, yeah. You are in it. Oh, yeah. I think every year is kind of my, every year I would say, oh, this is my favorite year. Yeah. Even as teenagers, I have not had a rough go.

Like my son, I remember dropping him off in the eighth, ninth grade, and he'd always hug and kiss me goodbye in front of all his friends. He didn't care. And he still hugs and kissed me all the time. He's just. That's so lovely. And my daughter, I never had any of that stuff. And even my 16-year-old now, she's just a love, absolutely. So none of that horrible stuff. But I think now my 20-year-old, it is such a great relationship to have with like people. I mean, they're people with opinions

and lives. And it's wonderful. Are they away in college? Are they? No, Sarah is my oldest. She's 29. She just put it on EP, and she's a songwriter, also an actor. And she's like an amazing writer, amazing singer. She's great at all of it. It's hard to have children in the arts right now because it's a very different world. My son is actually on a TV show called Tell Me Lies. Oh, yeah. That's a really popular show. Yeah. He's kind of kicking ass right now. Yeah. And he, yeah, he started as a drive-me-laws. drummer. He was not going to be an actor at all. But yeah. So he's in it. And then my youngest wants to be with plants. She loves plants and wait and could care less about all this stuff.

Wow. Doesn't want to do any of this. None of the. Yeah. I'm kind of relieved. Yeah. Yeah. I'd hope for a doctor. But just. It's equally as hard. Equally as hard. It would be really helpful with older parents. That's true. That's true. Let's not do his favor. Just be a doctor. Just be a doctor. How was that for you, though, when they said to you that they wanted to do that? Because I know you, the thing about you that we love and respect the most is all the things you're good at, which it's annoying that you can also sing.

Thank you. Yeah. Like, that sucks for us. But your children probably got all of those skills, right? From their, yes. Yes. Your family. Jackson's Bio Dad is also a drummer, a musician, and music has always been a part of our lives.

So, you know, we're that family that sings at the holidays and every niece and nephew. I have a nephew who's an opera singer. I mean, unreal, like 22-year-old major opera singer. And so they grew up around it. They're all really talented. And I, there was a part of me that felt like, well, this is not necessarily the, the most practical road you're going down. However, they're both really good. And I also feel so blessed to have been able to be an artist from what we do that how can you really deny it. And so,

you know, I think they're both going through what we've all been through with like, you know, employment, not employment, but but but but they're good at what they do. And I would be the first one to say, know what? Uh-uh. Don't do it. Don't do it. It's so funny. We talked about that recently. Are you the mom that's like the hype man no matter what? Like you're amazing or you're realistic. Or you're practical. No, no, no. I would definitely be telling. Once I knew they were both, very serious about it, I was like a really eagle eye on it, you know, knowing what I should encourage. And they're both great. They're great. So they're deserving of employment and we'll see what happens. Right. You know, I grew up in a household, a show business family. So my father was a

director, and my father didn't want me to be an actor. No, no, I'm sorry, wanted me to be an actor, not a musician. He would prefer I did neither. But when I said to him, you know, I just want to play my piano and write songs, which I had done since I was about 13. I said, that's what I want to do. And he would see me in these high school plays. And he'd say, no, it's a better bet if you're an actor because then I can help you. In fact, he got me my first job when I was 16 so I could get a union card. Oh, my God. So I would have health insurance, you know, which in hindsight, I didn't realize that what he was doing, but that's what he was doing. And as I was, you know, getting towards college and I would say to him, no, I don't want to study acting. I want to, I'm a musician. I'm, you know, I just am a musician. And he said, I said, Dad, I want to go to Cal Arts where they have a great music department. And he said, well, if you can audition for the theater department and get in, I'll pay for you to go. And I was like, really?

So I auditioned for the theater school and I did get in. You know, because I think I had this like untapped natural something. But I only stayed six months and I would just be in the music department all the time. I just really wanted to play music. That was your first love. Absolutely. So this is all my quick answer to, is it still? Well, now, you know, I really learned acting on the job.

I didn't study it really, and I didn't actors fucking hate when I say this. It's what it is. It's what it is. I paid more dues as a musician, for sure, all through my 20s. And it wasn't until I was in my late 20s when I realized, oh, I better, I better open up my scope. Like we were just talking about it. It was that year that I think it was 28, 29,

I was like, well, I'm not paying the bills. Maybe I should sell real estate. Maybe I better think of a plan B, which I'd never had a plan B. And it was around that time that I did a music, I did a show that a friend of mine wrote, a little rock musical in this little dumpy theater in Pasadena. And an agent found me and asked if I wanted an agent.

And my very first response was no. I'm not going to be an actor. I was like, no, why would I do that? I'm a musician. She came back to the show like three times and she kept asking and I kept real. And so finally I said, oh, all right. Okay. Fine. And literally within six months, I was doing a musical at the taper and then I was on TV within a year. Wow. That's insane. Yeah, it's really insane. It is. It was insane. And, you know, but I think I had, because I'd played music for so many years, I had. sort of a natural ear for comedy. So it just kind of, actually, I didn't know why I was, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was doing. You know, my very first job on tell, was with Mary Tyler Moore. Wow. And I remember that her coming over to me, putting my head in the light, telling me how to look. I mean, and I'm totally bullshitting. I was acting like I knew what was happening. You're like, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, no problem. I got it. You know. None of that. So, yeah, it's been something. So an answer to your question is it's still my first love. I love to play music.

I love to play music. I have a band, but we haven't been playing much at all. But we're talking about re-upping it. But I sit at home and play music and do that. But I love to act now. It was kind of it grew on me as I started to actually take it seriously, which is only about five years into married with children. I realized, oh, I better, because I would play on the weekends, I'd just go have a band.

Yeah. And I thought, oh, I better keep playing because this is going to go away. This won't really last. Oh, wow. And then as it started to last, and I was working with all these really good people, and then I started to study with a coach. I really, I still work with a coach. That's awesome.

Now I'm curious about it. Now I like the process of it. Right, right. And I really love the process of it. of finding backstory and creating something. So I enjoy them both. Yeah. Broad Ideas is supported by Talkspace.

Do you think seeing a therapist or psychiatrist would be helpful, but you don't have the time to actually find one and meet with them or afford them? Try Talkspace. By doing everything online, Talkspace has made getting the help you want easy, accessible, and affordable. When you've met your therapy goals or simply want to cancel, Talkspace has a simple cancellation process and will work with you to get a pro-rated refund for unused time if applicable. At Talkspace.com, you can sign up online and get a personalized match with the provider

that's right for you, typically within 48 hours. It's incredibly convenient to have virtual sessions with your licensed therapist from the comfort of your home. Therapy can help you shift your perspective, find tools to cope in difficult times, and be a guiding light. Talkspace can help with any specific challenges you might be facing. It's the number one online therapy platform with licensed therapists in over 40 specialties, including anxiety, depression, substance abuse, relationship issues, and much more. As a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com slash ideas. To match with the licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com slash ideas to get $80 off your first month and show your support for the show.

That's Talkspace.com slash ideas. Broad Ideas is supported by paired. Okay, now let me tell you something. I think every couple, every person should have an app they turn to for fun, adding some space, some laughs into the relationship. Okay, okay, but seriously, it's called paired. It's a relationship app for couples. You and your partner download the app, pair, together,

and every day paired gives you questions, quizzes, and games to have fun. Stay connected and deepen your conversations. You'll never believe what I found out about my partner, Olivia, through using paired. That's right, it can be your best friend too. I never knew this story that she told me about her dad and carrots and it brought a tear to my eye. It's simple and often hilarious. Each day you get a quiz to play or question to answer and you cannot see your partner's answer until you answer yourself.

Whether you're just a few dates in or have been together a long time, it's time to lighten the mood and have fun with your partner by using paired. Head to pared.com slash ideas to get a seven-day free trial and 25% off if you sign up for a subscription. Just head to P-A-I-R-E-D dot com slash ideas to sign up today. Connect with your partner every day using paired. A happier relationship starts here. It's so funny because you said, you know, your first job was with Mary Tyler Moore. And I know Katie mentioned this to you, but my first job I ever had was on

on one of your shows. She told me this. Yes. I was glorified background, okay? But it was my first job ever. The cast and director was like, can you come in and just whatever? I was gum-jewing girl, blowing bubbles. And I remember being, I know she told you this, but I was in hair and makeup or something.

And you kind of looked at me and I was like already like so, you know, fan girl. I was like, oh, my God. And you were like, yeah, your face. You said something and I was like... Tell her what she said. What did she say? She pointed at you and said, you're a star. I don't think that's what you said.

That's what you told me. Well, I have said that. That you looked at her and said that face. You said that face. You're a star. You're going somewhere. You're going somewhere. I'm sure.

I might have said that. It was something along those lines for sure. And I have no memory like I said, but... I do. Like when it happened... Except the compliment. Okay. Yes.

Thank you. I'm like sweating. I know. But yeah, but it was like such a moment and I was like, oh my God. It was, you know, and that was the first job I ever had and it was just the most. It was your Mary Tyler Moore moment. It was my Mary Tyler, like, you know, it was the same, like an icon, you know, anyway. Was it eight simple rules, right?

Yeah, yeah. And you were with John. You were with the biggest icon. Yes. He was the nicest man. Oh. I'm pissing your pants funny. Oh my gosh.

I mean, he was just constantly, I know, an amazing person. What an amazing, yeah. And even just being around the little amount I was, it was so explosive like him, you know, and how, and I was just like. You have to have Kaylee on your show and have her talk about John. Oh, my God. Yeah. She just, you know, he really took her under his wing. I mean, he loved us all.

But Kaylee, Kaylee would not stop laughing at John. I mean, she was all of 16 years old. He was so funny. I mean, he was just a fantastic, fantastic person. Yeah, an amazing human. Yeah. I remember just being gutted when I heard that news, you know, of his passing. It was gutting.

Horrible. Yeah, horrible. But what an amazing man. Yeah. Spirit. Very much so. Yes, yes. Even the one I'm out.

But it's just so funny to have had that experience with you. And then now I just, you know. You know, I had the same experience with Anne Hathaway, actually. Yeah. Because she had just started and I went to the. the premiere of the Princess Brought, whatever her first movie was. Princess Diaries. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I went up to her after the thing, and I was just like, wow, you were amazing. You're so fantastic. And I, you know, I'm not thinking anything. And then years later, I think I saw her at something, and she remembered it. And she came over to me. And she said, thank you for saying that. That really helped. And I was like, you know, I just, I don't know, the longer I do this, I think it's more,

it's all about that. It's just all about really, this sounds cheesy, but helping each other. It's really about what it's about. It's true. And the support. And also, I think that it is such a fragile thing in acting that there is that kind of need for validation. You know what I mean? Like, there is.

And for someone to just be generous and be like, hey, you're doing good or you're great or anything that is really not too much for someone to do but means the absolutely. world on the receiving end. It's like, how can we be more generous a spirit to let people know how they're affecting us? Absolutely. It's, you know, saying the thing that you just assume somebody knows. Right. And stepping out of that and telling them, you know, I tell my kids this all the time, too, you know, because it is such a rejecting business. Yeah. It is really difficult to get a yes. It's mostly about a no. And, you know, you have to be your own advocate. You have to sort of you have to tell yourself that I'm going to do this.

Right. And I'm going to do this no matter what. And they've said no one more time. But it's like what I tell young people all the time. It's like you better really fucking want to do this. Right. Because this is too brutal if you don't. And, you know, so yes, I do believe that that spirit of those of us that have gotten,

there's like you're over the fence, right? You're in the pool. Yep. So once you're in the pool, I think it's sort of a resubes. responsibility to then assure people that you notice got something going on that maybe you're not quite over the fence yet, that yeah, keep going. Keep going. You're on the right path.

Right. Now, I don't think I would say the opposite. I don't think I'm just saying to somebody, hey, you know what? Quit. Quit. But, you know, I think that it, you know, we all have to, you know, we all have to, what we do is a fragile business. It's a really, you know. It really is. I know. And, you know, my daughter's already showing signs of all the things. All the things. Wanting to perform, although she's in her

Taylor Swift era, so she wants to take guitar lessons and write songs. Great. Great. I know. I'm, like, definitely more supportive of that than like. Yeah, but here's the thing, and I'll say this because my experience was a little bit different, whereas I always wanted to act, and then it became too painful, I took a step away and tried to be a normal human and that hurt more. Oh, interesting. So letting go of your art. Yeah. So then I went back into it, but the truth of the matter is if you have that thing that burns inside of you and you go try and be a doctor or you go try and be a lawyer or any of the things and you still have that thing, it's equally as painful. So you're dealing with one, either rejection or two, suffocating your dream.

You're kind of screwed either way. Yeah. You know, so you might as well do the thing you like to do if you're going to suffer anyways. That's my. Right. That is so true. And, you know, it's hard to tell that to somebody who's being a waitress during the day and trying to find time to get to an audition that, you know, this is worth it if this is what your dream is.

But, you know, that's what I did. That's what, you know, I didn't, nothing was happening for me. I had to take side gigs all the time. Yeah. You know, you just kind of, you do and hope for the best. And don't think otherwise. I mean, it's so wild, you know, it's like you just have, I mean, it's, when I look back now, it's just really crazy what we do.

Oh, my God. It's crazy. But, you know, we are the lucky. So who's to say to our kids don't, this is what I would say about kids, though, because I grew up, my kids grew up in L.A. They went to school in the Valley. They went to the west side. You know, and all these kids were going to.

getting agents, you know, because we're in this town. They were getting agents when they were like 10 and 11. And I remember my kids coming to me and saying, hey, how about an agent? I was like, no, absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. And then my rule was like, once you can drive yourself to an audition, maybe. We'll talk about it. But, you know, I, but there were so many kids in the, that were doing that. Right. And I just didn't. But encouraging them to, first of all, playing music is the best thing I think you can encourage a child to do. Agreed. Unless they're playing sports, so they have that community. But the music community in schools is a great community to be involved in. That's good to know. Healthy.

Love it. You know, people that, you know, even the theater department, theater nerds are the best. Oh, yeah. I mean, I was a theater nerd. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So, you know, I mean, I was in the music world, which ended up not being the healthiest for a while. However, The cuter boys were there. That's where I would be. Absolutely. For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's true, though, you know, and putting the kids in, well, growing up in L.A. is one thing, right? And we're both from here. I grew up in L.A. Oh, you are? Yes. Yeah. I'm a Pardy girl.

I went to Notre Dame. Oh, my God. You did. So did my niece. No way. Yes, absolutely. Just graduated four years ago. Oh, wow.

Yeah. To Notre Dame. Where'd you go? Grant High School. Grant High School. In the Valley. Yes. I do know Grand High School.

Yeah. I went to Palisades High School. Did you go to Palli? Oh, my God. I did. I went to Paul River Junior High School. Oh, Columbia Avenue Elementary School. I'm a native as well.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Born in Hollywood. Which lends you to grow up really fast, right? Really fast in a lot of ways, but also really not starstruck at all. You're not affected. It's true, though. Like, no.

Yeah. This was kind of normal life. You know, it's like when you come here from the middle of the country and you think this is going to be an easy run or something's just going to happen, you know, or you're, you know, you're just stars, you know, I grew up in a real practical family working crew people, you know, being a director is the crew. Right. Right. You know, it's, wow. So you kind of see it from that angle, not as glamorous. Yeah.

So we have a lot of similarities. It's like my family, my great grandparents started in the business. And my grandfather was a TV director. My dad was a TV director writer. Danny Bilsons is his name. My grandpa's Bruce Bilsen. Like my grandpa directed all the classics. Like Marley Tyler Morton, like Get Smart, Brady Bunn, like all of that stuff.

You are my dad. I'm sure. Oh my God. I'm sure. Man from uncle, Dr. Kildare. Yeah. Like all of those shows. Yeah.

And so, you know, we grew up here. He's still, he's 95. God bless his heart. I know. And he's in the valley. But yeah. And growing up around it. and you would be on sets and, you know, so it's just kind of like...

Normal. Yeah. In fact, that was when I finally liked my dad. Because he was not around a lot. And, you know, he was directing episodic television, which in those days was like crazy or long hours than we work. And I didn't see him. And then he'd come home and be really grumpy. And, you know, I remember trying to get up really early in the mornings because he was in a really good mood then.

And then he finally took me to the set. which was, I was in elementary school. Not a lot of people liked me. I was kind of a geek. I was kind of weird. I just played my guitar and didn't talk to anyone. And so he took me to the set of Dr. Kildare and Man from Uncle. And then I realized I could bring these kids to the set.

Man. I had some friends. Right. Now I'm cool. I knew. I was cool then. Yeah, you're like, let me show you crafts. Yeah.

And then also I love, my dad was so cool at work. Right. I was like, wow. Because he was the dress. He was like the man. And everybody loved him and he was so wonderful. And I thought, oh, I get it. Yeah.

Oh, wow. That's so interesting. Of course, I couldn't live at work with him. No, right. Right. Then he came home. Yeah. Yeah.

No, that's so, it's just the similarities are funny. And yeah, I remember in sixth grade, like my friends and I, that's what we would do. We would go to set. Right. Hang out in the trailer. Eat all the snacks. You know, go in hair and makeup. So you probably have a really practical knowledge of all this.

I like to think so. You know, and I think I'm very professional because I get it. And my dad's advice to me always was because it's a job, right? And he's like, you do your job, you do it well. Simple. Like that's the through line. And so I've kind of always just been like, yeah, but I have appreciation for crew, everything, because I know both sides of it, I guess. But yeah. I feel the same way. And plus, you know, that it's not the magic pill that fame and celebrity is not the thing that's going to, you know, it's just like when they say money to. doesn't make you happy, you know, it doesn't buy happiness. It helps, but, you know. You definitely. You buy that. You know, it's bullshit. Yeah. But, you know, celebrity is not, you know, I just meet a lot of people that just are like, they're always thinking it's over there. Like, once I get there, I'm going to have it. Once I'm, you know, but there is no there there there. Right. There's no there there. There's no there there. Yeah. And I think you really get a sense of that when you grow up around this. Yeah. And for you, were you already stable in your life

when you got your first gig? Like, no. You mean as an actor? No, not as an actor as a person, because I know that you've had your journey with. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. We can talk about it, I think. We can. It's up to you. I mean, I know it's in your book, but I don't know. No, I'm totally cool. I, no, I, yeah, I'm in recovery. I think it's been well documented. And I was not in recovery during my 20s. My 20s was a rocky road for me and fun. I had a lot of fun. I was on the road with a lot of bands.

And it was that lifestyle. And I was not in a theater world. I was in a music world. And so it was very much, you know, encouraged. And, you know, I got sober in mid-80s. So the beginning of the 80s, which was L.A. just on fire with all kinds of hard partying. So I was involved. Yeah. But I got, so no, I was not. In fact, when I got married with children, I was four months clean. Wow. Oh my God. Yeah. That is like being a newborn infant.

It was really weird. That is a raw nerve. It was scary. Yeah. And it was, it hadn't been my first go around it. I remember I got the job. I had just been sort of immersed in my recovery, but I was not somebody that couldn't show up for auditions and for those things. I was somehow able to still manage that. It was going down quick. But I remember my friends in recovery told me to go to the job.

I was terrified and tell somebody that I was in recovery. And I was like, are you kidding? I'm going to walk in with these strangers and dipa, dipa. But I did it. And within like five people, I met two people in recovery. Wow. That's how it works. It was really fantastic and it just calmed me down.

And I just felt like, okay, I'm in a safe place. And, you know, because I don't know about yours. Yeah. Do you talk about it? Yeah, very openly. So I had a lot of social anxiety. That was massive. Really, one of my main coping skills was I started drinking when I was like 14 and smoking

weed. And a lot of it was to cope with social anxiety. And depression. I think I had depression, but, you know, nobody talked about it then. Right. Same. All of it. I loved little speed. I thought that was fantastic. It made me like smarter, funnier and cuter. And, you know, it just became like an almost 15-year way of coping with my life. And a lot of that was social anxiety. So, you know, the minute that you start living in the real world and you realize, okay, this is, this doesn't work anymore. I can't do this anymore. That's social anxiety spikes. That's right. Right. It gets worse. Yes. And, you know, that's what my, my, my, my, um, friends in recovery would say to me, that's why we go to these meetings. Because we have to be around people. The opposite of addiction is

connection. Connection. And that's what, you know, that's what I have found I was always looking for was to be connected. And I never felt connected to other humans, really. Ever. Yeah. I just didn't. And it's so interesting because you start out not feeling connected to humans. And then the behavior that follows that, which you think is going to help that, makes you even more uncomfortable around humans. You know, it just kind of builds on top of each other.

So, yeah, that coping skill works for a limited amount of time. at least it did for me. It works for a minute. Yeah, absolutely. Because you feel a little bit like, oh, I can do this. A part of. Yeah, a part of. And that's the thing, too, is people are always like, why do you have to go to meetings?

Like, you don't drink anymore. It's been almost 13 years. And it's like, I don't know how to be human without it. Like, it literally helps me on a daily basis be human. And like you were saying in the beginning, like getting to a place where you can be present in your life. that is the only way I've found that's helpful for me. Otherwise, I'm like, how do we do this whole human thing? Well, you know?

Broad Ideas is supported by Green Chef. Make this year's resolutions, a breeze. Build healthy habits the easy way in 2024 with nutritious recipes from the number one meal kit for clean eating. Green Chef offers unique farm-fresh ingredients, organic whole fruits and veggies, and premium proteins. Savor Green Chef's seasonally inspired recipes. where we celebrate the peak ingredients, flavors, and freshness of every season.

Choosing Green Chef means choosing real, wholesome foods that don't just fill you up, but also support a healthy lifestyle. It's more than just satisfying hunger. It's about feeling good with every bite. Elevate your everyday wellness with the number one meal kit for clean eating and discover new gut-friendly recipes each week. I just love that I can feel good about what I am putting in my body and in my child's body. I think all have. health starts with the gut. And Green Chef makes that so easy to do. Go to greenchef.com slash 60 broad and use code 60 broad to get 60% off plus 20% off your next two months. That's greenchef.com slash 60 broad and code 60 broad. Green Chef, the number one meal kit for eating well.

I'm a real firm believer that my ism lives in my head. It's about my perception of the world. It's about my fear-based thinking. It's a self-centered tendency. And even though I don't pick up substances anymore, it doesn't mean I don't have a head that wants to tell me a bunch of bullshit, which is basically, you know, what if the worst thing happens?

So I can still wake up with that head telling me thing. And I've learned to call that my ism. I believe that that's what it is. It's fear-based. It's self-centered thinking. And so the reason I continue in it is because I don't know how to stop that without hearing about other people that have it. Yep. That think the same way and about, you know, community.

Everybody's taught, you know, when you go to those groups and you think like your worst thinking is like so unusual and then somebody tops it with like their worst thinking, I'm like, yeah. And then we all laugh. And we're like, oh, I'm good. That's fine. I'm all right. So, yeah, it becomes a lot more than just stopping substances. It just becomes, you know, you gain so much more from living this way of life. Like, I think the whole country should live in a 12-step program. Well, I always say that all the time. Yeah, you do. I do. I wish there was

something for people that aren't addict. I mean, there are different versions, right? But like, for Rachel. Yeah, no, because I don't have, you know, I don't have a substance problem. A substance problem. I have the fear-based mentality. I have other, you know, issues that I deal with internally and it doesn't come out in alcohol or whatever. But I'm always like, oh, that sounds like a really good program. Like, I feel like I could benefit a lot from what you get out of it. We can find your addiction, right? Yeah, exactly. Also, you can always qualify for Allen on shoes, shoes, absolutely. But, you know, people, I'm also in all the, I'm in all the rooms. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I find the hardest one is the, I don't like to say the names, but the rooms for the families of. I find that that is

because it is the ism without the substances. Right. It is about being addicted to people. Oh, yeah. And taking care of, taking care of being, you know, being, you know, forgetting about yourself and just wanting to, you know. I definitely check all those boxes. There's a room for that. Yeah, that's what I've been saying. There is a room for that. And I know that. And I know that. room really well too because I, you know, I just, I've just been on every side of this, married to an addict, married to, you know, being really influenced, being a family member of an addict, you know, all that. Right.

So I have all those, there's lots of isms. There's a place for you, Rachel, I promise. Yeah. I believe it. There's tools for you too. For sure. And you know, what I love in your story is to me, it's so inspiring that you're willing to share because I hear someone getting that at four months sober and staying sober.

I remember when I first got sober, they were like, okay, or first went into recovery, they're like, just go to meetings, do what we're saying, and I promise you, everything in your life is going to fall into place. And I'd be like, but how am I going to get a boyfriend? You know, like, how am I going to stop waiting tables? How am I going to, all of those things? And it was all true. Yeah.

it all happened. And it was a direct result of making that choice. Like you getting that at four months, cosmically, I have to believe, 100% connected to that. And the reason that you've made this impact in the arts and what you do and everything to me is related to that as well. You wouldn't have it. Well, you have to couch. Yeah. I think I learned early on to couch things, you know, I know it. I know it more now than ever is that it's all service. You know, I've always thought of what we do as, not to sound flippant in any way or self-aggrandizing in any way, but it is a service to be entertaining people. You know, it's really that. And so I think in one of the earlier tools I learned in sobriety was about taking the focus off of myself and asking somebody else how they're doing.

And that has just been invaluable. My entire recovery has been about, you know, more and more and more and more. But it's kind of a self-centered tool, actually, because it makes me feel better. Right. I'm going to benefit still. I'm tired of thinking about myself. How are you doing? Yeah.

But it really works. It's a fantastic thing. And before you know it, all that shit that you think is like, uh, It just shuts up. And, you know, it is true. With time, you start to realize, oh, everything I was worried about is actually worked out. I didn't need to waste all that time and energy, you know. Not that there's not validity and will I ever have a boyfriend.

That's absolutely a valid thought. Felt real. It felt absolutely. It felt real. But for us that think obsessively, the thought of, will I ever have a boyfriend, won't shut the fuck up. That's right. Right? It's like the real.

I hope I can swear on your show. Oh, fuck. Yeah, you can. Okay, good. But, you know, we're obsessive thinkers. So it becomes like, uh-huh. And then, you know, that's a hard way to get a boyfriend. It is.

Constantly thinking about will I get one? Oof. It's not a good tool. No, it's not a good tool. But also it's that wheel that you're talking about that I started drinking and using when I was so young. Like, I think like 11 is when I really started smoking weed, drinking, taking acid, all that stuff. So by the time I got 30 and gave it up, I finally, it got so much worse, because I took those things away and was like, what? Like, what is this? And it made so much

it's like, this is why you drink. This is why you smoke. This is why because that loud, obsessive voice. And that's why one addict talking to another is the only. way it works because when you do, you get that flood of feelings of like, oh, I haven't even looked at this since I'm 11 years old or 12 years old. I don't know what this is. You have to be able to process it with somebody else that understands it. It's not like going to therapy. It's like the person that looks at you and goes, oh, yeah, I get that. I too do not know what to wear when I wake up in the morning. It's just one of my first things. My sponsor said to me, I say, I'm too confused by a closet. I can't figure. She said, lay your clothes.

out before you go to bed. I was like, okay. Right. Right. It's so little. Little thing. Right. Things. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, those were tough things. And, you know, I still find I live my life certain, there's certain times when it's just so freaking chaotic and I just have to stop and just do what's in front of me, you know, just take the next indicated action, as we say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Simple, little bit. I get reminded of that all the time, you know, by you or my mom. I'm always like because I try.

But I know in my past, like I've definitely dealt with people, you know, that have addiction or whatever. And I'm like always turned to Olivia because she can actually help me kind of understand to best I can without knowing it personally. And I find that really helpful because it gives me this perspective. I'm like, oh, okay. Well, I think it's because the misconception is that people with addiction and alcoholism is a character flaw. That's right. And it's not a character flaw. And they're not doing it to you.

Right. And that's the hardest thing to understand that their behavior, our behavior, becomes so atrocious and bad. And it's hard not to think, you know, you're just an asshole person. Right. It's not that. And it's a very tough distinction to make because, you know, but there's plenty of assholes that aren't alcoholics. Oh, yeah. I was about to say something that I don't think I can say.

Yeah, but having that help and I think what you touched on was like it has nothing to do with the other person. You know, if it's a relationship, if you're involved in any way or what it has nothing to do with you. And that's the best thing you can know and keep for yourself. Oh, and remind yourself. And reminds yourself. A constant reminder because it's so easy to just fall into. My second husband had a lot of trouble staying sober. And for years, I thought I just needed to do something different that that would really help.

You know, that if I cleaned up the mess one more time, if I, you know, and I was sober the entire time, if I, you know, the babies will help. The whatever, you know, the one more hospital visit. would help the one, everything. Yeah. And, you know, and eventually it wore me down. It made me feel like I was the fucked up one. Right. And I wasn't, but I became that because I started to believe all these not great things

about myself until I realized that, you know, his disease was not about me. Right. You know, and I had caught it, you know. It was my tendency all along. I don't know how you guys grew up. I grew up with a mom that was sick a lot in my life, most of my life. So I kind of grew up feeling like, I got to take care of people. I have to take care of my mom.

I have to take care. And I'm just a natural that way. And then I started picking all these boyfriends and dudes that all needed taking care of. Right. It's like, wow. You know. Yeah. And then, you know, I put the, you know, you do enough therapy.

You go, you find the rest. Oh, I see. I'm trying to, I'm trying to write that wrong. I'm trying to save that person. Right. And, you know, it was misdirected. So, but. Yeah, because you can't.

Is this okay to talk about this on your podcast? Okay. Oh, we are you kidding? Are you kidding? Are you kidding? This is all we care about. Oh, okay. Oh, no.

We like to go there. We talk about everything and this is what we want to know, you know? Because people are human and there's so many things that we deal with that we experience. And we want people to feel safe and heard and like, just to normalize things that people think they can't. really talk about. It's a point of the show is we want people to feel like we do when we step in those rooms and we get to hear a little bit of ourselves. Right. Right. And you don't feel so alone. Exactly. Yeah. It's really it's just the key. I've been doing all this reading lately on, you know, because I'm in my 60s. So I've been doing all this reading lately

about, you know, how to stay youthful and young and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, live a long time because I have a 16 year old and I have to live, you know, for another fuck or 40 years. And, you know, the main thing they talk about is community is really that, you know, for older people to, not that I'm older person yet, but the main thing that we need to do is keep human connection. And, you know, it's the key to everything, really. You know, not just addiction. It's the key to, it's why we're all, you know, we're all here. We're all here. Yeah. Yeah. So are you reading about like blue zones and stuff like that? I'm reading about blue zones. I read that book Outlived. Yeah. My husband's in longevity. That's what he does for work. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So I hear about this. Probably need to meet your husband. Yeah. I'm all about it too. So now I'm reading all about exercise and the need for a certain amount of protein and keep your muscles and blah, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. Which I, not that I'm new to it. I've always been, even when I was drinking and using, I was like exercise.

I was going to aerobics class. She's just like insane. Cocaine, insulin. That's exactly. Yeah. So true. But yeah, I just, I think that connection is, you know, the most important thing we can do. Right.

So that's great. You guys are doing that. Yeah, and it's healing. Like today I woke up, I call it crunchy now. Like when I woke up like crunchy, just like not quite right. And like having these conversations, I feel regulated. Right. You know, it's so irritable.

Not so irritable, not so crunchy. Not so crunchy. Yeah. Yeah. I woke up crunchy too. Did you? Actually, yesterday was a very crunchy day for me. Because I had a friend that, you know, that, I'll just say her, her fiancé, Odette.

Oh, she. So I've been sort of in the middle of going through that with her. And, you know, I kind of work in that world a little bit of. little bit so I'm around it, but it was very close. And I was like, man, it's crunchy. You know, I felt and I, so I went to one of our little gatherings last night. And I walked out feeling much better, much more centered, much more not alone and scared. You know, because my crunchy is fear. I don't know what you're, you know. It's a few minus fear. Fear. Something's going to happen. I'm not aware of it. It's just going to boom, happen. Right. Lots of bad stuff. Lots of bad stuff.

Yeah, yeah, it's constant. I mean, yeah, it's all fear all the time. It's the what if thinking. The what if? And why you have to keep telling yourself, oh, no, I need to be right here. Like, just what's right in front of me, this present moment. If I go anywhere else, I'm fucking dead. Yeah, but you know, it's like going to the gym.

It's like you have to work that muscle constantly. Right. Because you'll remember that now, but, you know, by 10 o'clock tonight, you will have forgotten. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. I wake up at 1 a.m. I'm just, it's a constant. loop of like all of the fearful, horrible thoughts. I know, it can really. You know, and part of it's our

humanity. I think all humans have that. I think that, you know, if you have any kind of an addictive personality, like it talks about it in our literature that our basic instincts are on steroids. So everything that we do in life as somewhat compulsive people, it starts out correct. But, But, you know, we just are a little amped up about it. Up it. Up it. I was even laughing at that because she got this tiny coffee and then I get my big coffee. I'm like, I just, everything's just extra.

You know, it's just all extra. Yeah. One's good, but three would be great. Yeah, there's never just like, I remember when it hit me one day. I was like, wait a minute, enough is enough. And it like. Was it when you were eating seize candy? Because I feel like that's when it would happen.

It was like these candies or cookies when it actually hit, they're not kidding that enough is enough. Like if you could stop it enough. That's right. It's enough. Right. I didn't get that until like last week. I'm telling you. Here's my cookie thing because I have, you know, sugar stuff.

Yeah. Sugar stuff. I just always remind myself, guess what? You get to eat later. Right. You can have these later. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, all right.

Because, you know, there's that concept that there's just never enough. I better have them all right now. Right. Because, you know, or, you know, I just won't let myself have them. You know, it's just a different, it's a different perception. You just have to switch your perception. There's a book that helped me with that so much. Which one?

It's called, I think it's called How to Feed the Hungry Heart or Feeding the Hungry Heart. Oh, Dene Roth. Yes. I know all about it. That book is so good. It is a good book. It is a good book. the grocery store and be like, I basically like, I'm safe to buy cereal. I would have to tell

myself, you're safe to buy cereal because I wouldn't even buy it and bring it in house because it'd be gone. Gone. Or a box of cookies. And so then I would tell myself before each cookie, you're safe to have a cookie. You can have two cookies. That's right. And then. And you can come back later. Yeah. Yeah. That book. That was a great book. Yeah. I had a thing with food when I was, So that kind of started the whole thing for me, actually. I was a fat teenager, which I don't know. Well, I look at pictures now.

I wasn't that fat. No. But my dad told me I was. Everybody told me I was. And, you know, I always had the best friend that was gorgeous and sveled and all the boys liked her. And I was just kind of the best friend. And, you know, not that I had that many friends, but I'm thinking of one person in particular. And so I grew up thinking that way.

So drugs and alcohol, food was probably the first thing. And then, you know, because I started to like shut down with the Oreos in front of the TV after school, right? And then before you knew it, it turned into, oh, this will manage that. Just a little bit of an upper and, you know, some wine on the weekend, you know, started all that. Yeah, it's all connected. It's all the same thing. It's all the same thing. Yeah. So, yeah, but all those tools, which I think is cognitive behavior, they call it, learning different ways to manage things like that. I think this. I have the sugar addiction. Do you? Oh, yeah. What's your, what's your favorite? You don't think I do? Not addiction. Well, fine. She has a, she has a, she has a, she likes sugar. I just want, guys, just give me one. Come on. Online shopping. I do. You may have an online shopping addiction. I do have that. But sugar, you'll have, she's reasonable. She'll have a piece of chocolate. Right. Okay. You don't come back and like my mind will know it's there. I know this. You know this. I got into the Christmas goods.

Like knowing they're there in the garage, I was like, it's there. You know, like she can open it. You have stored Christmas thing, edible Christmas things? No, I couldn't give my teachers their Christmas presents because I ate them all. Oh, because you ate them all. Oh, yeah. That did happen. That's hysterical.

She went up, she ate the boxes of a cease candy before. I was like, fantastic. I don't have no presents. That's great. There's recovery from that. We have a box of Case candy in our house, and we have cookies in our house, and there's recovery because I, it doesn't, I can do one and that's it. So keep going. They're recovery.

I've done it on the cookies, not on the C's. Yeah. There's a few kinds of cookies I can't have around. I just can't have Oreos around. Oh, they're the best. Yeah, those are mine. They're the best. Yeah.

So I just can't have it. No. It's so good in the milk. I don't know why we're talking about this. But, yeah. Because it's important. Maybe it is important. It is important, you know?

I think I'm not talking out of school, but, you know, my son is on a television show. Yeah, yeah. And his girlfriend is the lead on the television. They're both. And they play love interests? Yeah, they're love interests. And now they're dating in real life. Oh, yeah. They have been. And they have been since the audition. No way. They kind of had such great chemistry. I love that. Wait a minute. Who's the girl on the show? Grace, Van Patten. Is that Tim Van Patten's daughter? Yes. Okay. I've known Tim since I was, because he was in like my dad.

A movie. Yeah. That's right. Anyway, that's right. And that his daughter, yeah, he's a great guy. I forgot that. Okay, so they're, oh, that's your, that's huge. He's on a huge show.

Yeah. And they're dating. Yes. So, well, of course that happens. Yeah. So I think, but sometimes I think, I think as you get a little bit old, like for us, when I was doing that and I'm in my late 40s, 50s, you know, there was no, it was just just, it was just what the story.

We were providing the story. Yeah. Right. But, yeah, I think. Sometimes when you're younger, it can lead to. Yeah, I have a lot of experience. I'm sure you have experience with that, right? I have, yes.

Did you fall for your leading man? Yes. Oh, a couple of times. A couple of times. You're right. Yeah, but I had long-term relationships. Like the first time was like three and a half years. The second was 11 years.

So how did you meet your husband now? How did you meet Kurt? One of our many organizations in there. And actually the sister program, the one we were both in there. And yeah, we met. And it was really amazing because I was 46 and thought, all right, I'm not doing this again. This was after my second go-round. And thought, no, I'm not going to do this again. And I'm, you know, and I was fully prepared to raise the four and the six-year-old on my own. And then I met him. And it was a completely new experience. for me on so many levels, like on an intimate level and an intellectual level. I mean, he was just like this different kind. It was the first time I hadn't been with a musician,

not the dog musician. But it was the first time. And it was just fantastic. It's just been, you know, up and down for sure, like 20 years. I don't know how you don't go a little bit up and down. But it's a long time. But it's been fantastic. You know, I love him. I really do love my husband. And, you know, so I tell my girlfriends, you know, because I'll have friends that are like, I don't know, there's something about that late 40s, early 50s area where, you know, you're either in some kind of relationship and afraid to leave because you think you'll never, that what happens next. I'm not going to meet anybody. And I was there and fell in love at 46 and 47 with two little kids. I was like, well, these guys come with me. Yeah. So, right. I'm a package. deal. And it really worked out. So I just, that was a hard one, though. That was a hard leap to take. That's a hard thing. To be single with two little kids. It was hard. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He seems like he has edge, though. He's so edge. Do you know what I mean? That's like,

you know, he just seems cool like a musician. He's got the fabric of a musician, even if he isn't one. Right? He's got the right mix of that and he's also a nerd. He's like, that's great. He's like a like, you know, now he's completely tatted, but he wasn't completely tatted when I met him. Right. He was more, you know, not scholar. Well, he is kind of scholarly. He's like a great combination of edge but got a really good girl side. Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, he's super sensitive. He cries more than I do. You know, he's just a good, he's a good, and also one of us. You know, he's very, so reformed. Yeah.

Love a reformed man. I don't think there is anything better, especially for the men. I find them so much more attractive because they've looked at themselves and been through something and worked through it and have accountability and perception. Like, there's nothing better than a reform man. There's nothing better. Or that also has friends that are that way. Right.

Because a lot of men, I find, just don't have men friends. Right. They're not like us. They're not like girls. But I always look at that. If they don't have any friends, you're like, what? Right. There's certain personalities, I think, that maybe it's even a red flag if they don't have any.

Or at least a couple. Right. Right. You don't have to have a crew. No. You know, you're playing poker every weekend. Right. But like have your.

Have a couple of guys, you know. And yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. And so it is nice to be with, you know, because women, you know, we're so, it's so easy. I don't know. For me, it didn't used to be. Now it's very easy for me to bond with women. And I like to bond with women. And, you know, I like to sit and chat. And, you know, we speak a different way than we do, than men do. Yes.

You know, it's like I'm always, it's like I know, I know, my daughter, you know, expecting her boyfriend to be like a girlfriend. I'm like, not going to happen. Not going to work. Uh-uh. No. Don't. You don't have to say everything to him. Oh, don't say every word that comes into your head. Yeah. I'm always like, I'm the overshare. They're the undershare. Like instead. constant. And I had like an eye-opening experience where the guy once where like I said something, like, I had gotten them a gift and they had gotten me something similar. And I'm like, I have to give your gift now because you got me this thing and I got you the same thing. And I don't want you to think

that I only got this because you got it for me. He's like, I would never think that. I'm like, right. We don't think the same. No, no, we don't think the same. No. No. And we're just, we are overshareers. We are overshared. Yeah, really. And with your girlfriend, you can be. Oh, right. I mean, your girlfriend, you could say the same thing five different ways. Yeah. And your girlfriend is going to be still like, oh, yeah, well. Oh, yes.

Because it's just a different way of communicating. Right. Yeah. You know. Yeah. It's just like, it has to come out. It has to come out. It has to come out.

We joke because we'll do this all day. I get in the car and we do it all the way home. Yeah, for the hour drive home. And we're like, so what? Downloading. You know, downloading. That's it. Yeah.

I know. I so get it. That's so great your friends for 30 years. Yeah. So what was that mean? Like, you went to elementary school together? We, it was more junior high. I guess we're more like five-ish years.

Wow. Is that true? No. Yeah, like 25 years. So great. I know it's just. We'll call it 30. But yeah, I know.

It's you grow up together. Did you guys go to college? No. Just started work. Yep. Yep. Yep. No college.

I mean, I went for like a semester. Right. And my dad's like, you're just partying. You have to. He's like, you're pretty. Go. No, I, yeah. It was a lot of that.

So he didn't want to waste his money. No, he's like, I'm not paying for you to party. Like, I went down to San Diego. We were like in Tijuana. You know what I mean? Right. Like, party. Like, I was not going to class.

Right. Absolutely. So. Stop for everybody. It was really. It was not for me. No. No.

And I had a supportive mother who was like, okay. Great. That's so great. Yes. Now, my son came to me after two years of music school. Well, first year of music school at USC, he said, mom, this is a joke. I can't do.

I shouldn't down. I could play that school. It's not a joke. But for him, it was not a good fit. And then so he moved to the theater school and he's sort of like that. And then he came home. He just said, Mom, I'm just partying. I have to get out of school. And so, well, you know, you have to do something. You can come home, but you have to do something. So he went to acting school. Oh, okay. I worked out. Yeah, sure did. Where did he go? He went to, it's in the valley. The place that I think Jeff Goldblum started. What is it? Valley West. West. Oh, the Playhouse West? Playhouse West. Yeah. Yeah. She went there.

Oh, wow. And studied for a year something and just kind of started booking little jobs. Cabam. Yeah. Cabam is right. Now he's on a cabam of a show. Yep. I think so.

Caboom. He's caboomed. It's like when you know where you're going and you're that age, it's really hard to push you into a box that you don't fit. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. No, he's in the right box. And so is my older one.

It's just, you know, when I was, I don't know how old you guys are exactly, but it used to be a simpler process, it felt like. You know, like, you just, it was just simpler. There wasn't a whole corporation that it had to sign off on you. Right. You know, now you go for a job and like 25 people have to say yes. It used to be like a couple, right? I don't know if you were, but that's how it was when I started. It was, you know, there were fantastically creative heads of companies. that were really about the art.

Yeah. You know, and now there's, you know, it's a different, lots of young people that really don't know about art get to make decisions. Very true. So true. Yeah. It's definitely changed. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So I think you have to make your own stuff. That's one way to channel things. I think so, too. Yeah. I don't know that I would have survived then. I mean, now. Right.

If it was. I don't know that I would have. I don't have that talent. You know, I know. I know so many talented young people that are like, you know, making short films and writing their own series. And, you know, you're just like, what? Right. I mean, yeah.

It's like, Rashida Jones, you know, it's like, yeah. I mean, wow. Talk about make your own path. Right. It's fantastic. I know. It is fantastic. I agree completely.

Yeah. I don't think I, yeah, even like the 20 plus years, you know, I've been doing. I, no. No. No chance. Right. Yeah. It's a different.

It's different time. For sure. It is. It is. And we're all doing the best we can. We are all doing the best we can. Absolutely. So you're doing a podcast. You've created a podcast. We've created a podcast. We created something. So that's really great. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It's all outlets too. You know, just keep it going. Yeah. Just keep doing something. Right. You have to because otherwise you can go do something else and you're just going to be wanting to do that anyways. Right. I love to need. You want to knit. Do you? I've always wanted to learn how to knit. Yeah, I feel like I'd like it. Do you do it on set? I used to do it on set a lot. Yeah. I would do it in rooms a lot. I would do it. I do it now. I, I, my really, I like to listen to reality TV and knit. Oh, please. Are you kidding? That's amazing. I find it so meditated. Yeah, because you don't have to think. It's just, you're not thinking and you don't have to watch. Right. Really. You can just sort of not pay attention to the story and just. And just. Just talk about, you know, how ridiculous they are. What's your go-to, though, yeah? Well, I just was watching.

Well, I did love love is blonde. Oh, obsessed. I can't. Obsessed. Oh, obsessed. It's like crazy. It's like insanity. So all of that.

Yep. I finally, I had never watched a housewife show. So I started one of those. Yeah. But I couldn't, you know, they just drink so much. I was just like, oh, my God. Every episode these ladies are drinking a lot of alcohol. So, of course, they're going to do crazy shit.

So I got sort of bored. Yeah. Okay. I've never gone there. A friend of mine told me to watch above the deck, below the deck. People love below deck. They love below deck. I've seen below deck med, which is in the Mediterranean.

Oh. Sounds good too. Yeah. So, yeah, I've just sort of cracked that up. And the old survivor episodes. Have you ever watched old survivor episodes? No. No.

I was never a survivor person. Yeah, me either. I'm on a TV show currently. and everybody on that TV show are like Survivor Freaks. Really? They love it. Like they watch it religiously. Like rerun.

Yeah. So they were like, you have to watch the old ones because the old ones were like gnarly. And the new ones are kind of cush. Right, right, right. So I've been watching these old rerun. They are pretty gnarly. But they put people through. Would you win?

Would I win? Oh, no, I'd be out. Me too. No, no. Yeah. Dead in the water. The minute I have to go in the water. I'm not going in the water.

I'm not jumping off. I'm playing into the water. No, not my thing. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm with you. I think that's why I never got into housewives because of the drinking. It might be.

It might be. I'm finding it boring because of that. I've never seen an episode of a housewife show. But you're so into reality. I know. That's why I don't understand it. It's weird. Why, what's your favorite?

Well, I love, love is blind. I'm obsessed. I mean, I got into The Bachelor for a while. Bachelor in Paradise, actually. I've never done those. Bachelor in Paradise is such a shit show. It's so much fun to watch. I definitely prefer that. Okay. Okay. So if you're going to watch one of them, watch that one to watch. It's so fun. All right. Great. Yeah. I love that. Highly recommend it.

Yeah. I'm trying to, I watch my reality sometimes. I got so addicted to television during the pandemic. I don't know if you guys. Oh, yeah. And I used to love to read books. So now I'm making myself go back and read. I have to read books. Now I have to read every day a little bit. That's good. Because otherwise, I would just watch television. That's all I want to do. I want to lay in bed and do. I do too. That's the only what I do. I know. At the end of the day, yesterday I had such a crunchy day. And it was finally the end of the day, which for me is like around 9.30, like I'm done. And at 9.30, I'm putting on my headphones and I have my little iPad. And I'm just about to like, oh, and watch like, I don't know, even know what I was watching. And my daughter comes in, my 16-year-old and jumps on the bed. And I was just like, you can't. You can't. be if you're around. And I hadn't seen her really all day. And I was just like such a bitch. I was like, oh my God. And then my husband looks at me. He's like, you know, what do you do? So I had to take my head. But it was finally my second. Like you're in bed. And you're like,

yeah. So, but I did the right, you know. So relatable. I gave her attention. Yeah. Instead of, you know, watching her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I only got like 15 minutes before I fell sleep. I'm loved. I know. That time, decompressing time for yourself. Decompressing time is so... Yeah, it's like a bath. But now, you know, the longevity people tell you, because sleep is so important. Yeah. Not to look at screens. Not to look at the scenes. But it's impossible. Like, I have the hardest time not looking at my phone until I go to sleep. I know. It's so hard. These people that my husband work with, they have their beds in a room that's all dark, just the beds, twin beds, so that they're not in the same bed, disrupting each other. No screens in the room. They've got these like, I don't know what it is,

some sort of like protecting shield from all. I mean, is that like a testing situation or that's their home life? No, what do you mean? That's their home life. Whoa. They're keeping up the radio waves or something. Wow. I don't even know what that means. But here I am. Did you do it yet? He tells me all the time. You're going to live on a dome. No, we should take the TV out of our room. And I'm like, that's my only thing that I want. Like, I don't even want clothes, shoot, like, none of that. I just want to be able to lay in bed and watch TV and just watch a show. I know. That's it. I hear you. Simple. You know. Simple things. And I don't have a problem sleeping. Well, then that's, you know, I just got this. Do you have an aura ring? I don't. No, he does. He does. I need to get it. I just got one. My husband made total fun of me. He was like, oh, my God, you with the watch and the ring.

But it does clock your sleep, which I think is really good. And my sleep is fine as well. So there you go. That's what I was saying. Well, according to the aura ring, I'm doing it just fine. Yes, you've debunked the theory. That's right. But I'm, but I have been, I do, I do sort of understand the, this is what we did. We took our TV out of the bedroom. However, now we each have an iPad. Right. So now you're not doing a together. So now we're not watching the same show. Right. But we're, you know, both on our screen. You know, and he's on the phone or I'm the thing, you know. Do you like that, though? Yes. Oh, you do. Well, what do you prop it on or do you hold it? Oh, I need to know this setup. My husband has it set up. He has, well, first of all, he buys every gadget. So he's got like this, you know, like a thing, like a stand.

Yeah. And he's gone through about five of them. Now he's found the right one. So he's got it by the best. so it kind of goes like this and doesn't shine in me. I'm just like, I put a pillow here between us and I'm just on the thing. You know what I mean? I don't need to stand. Right. You hold it? Well, it's kind of leaning on a pillow.

It's leaning on a pillow. It's leaning on those cases. You know, they have a pillow stand. They have pillow stand. They too. I would. Yes. They sure do.

I will show you. I should probably get a pillow stand. A pillow stand. I'm just saying, you know. But I did. This is the latest thing I bought was I bought a nice. nightlight for my book. You know, and now I have a book by the bed.

Yeah. With a book light that clips onto the page. Oh, yes. I have the same. That's kind of a nice. I'm trying to at least rotate a little bit. To read a little and not, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. What are you reading right now? I just read the great. Did you read the 12 husbands of Evelyn? Seven husbands of Evelyn. No, I've had it like to read for a year.

It's so good. I'm going to, okay, I'm going to do that one. Just put it down. I need to start one. Okay. And now I'm also reading. I like Ruth Ware. Yeah, of course.

The cabin, woman in cabin, whatever. Yeah. So now I'm reading The Lion Game. Okay. Oh, I have that one. Yeah. I haven't read it. It's pretty good so far.

Yeah. I mean, I love. They're more thriller like, yeah. I like thrillers. Yeah. And then I also just bought a book called, what's it called? The Survivorist? Something.

Okay. But what I do want to read, my daughter's reading it. And I just hear it's great is the people's history of the world. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did you ever read that? No, but everybody says it's so good. I think a long time ago.

I read some of it, but I didn't get it. Yeah, but I have it. I need to read that. Yeah. I want to read that. It's like I'd like to mix it up. Like I'll do Colleen Hoover. Have you done hers?

No. She's like, it ends with us and Verity and all these like, you know. Is it romance? Some might be more. What is Nicole called? Yeah, she calls them something. Vagina. Oh, warm vagina books.

I don't know. Wow. It's not like romance novel, but she's super popular. But are they sexy? Some are for sure. Great. But she, they're making a movie. It ends with us, like Blake lively's doing it or something.

And it's very popular. Oh, I see. Yes. But it deals with, like, domestic abuse. Like, there's substance to it for sure. Right. But, yeah, her books are easy to read. Great.

Yeah. I like easy to read. And then I also like making myself read ones that aren't so easy to read. Absolutely. Like about subject matters that, you know, it's just good for your brain. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'll mix it up.

But that takes so much more focus. It does. It really does. I'd also try to read in the morning. That's what I was going to say. It depends for me. I can't do it at night. Yeah.

Morning is a good read. Yeah. That's good. After you do your little, whatever you do, I do a few little things and then I read. Yeah. Because then you have the brain power for it. But you can do the other, what is it? The romancy.

The vagina one? The warm vaginas. I'll do the warm vaginas. He can do that at night. Yeah. That does need to do it nice. Those are fine for a night. Yeah.

Yeah. The people's history of the world are like the. The ones that you have to use your brain. Yeah, exactly. To concentrate. Right. But that Ellen Hugo book, I'm telling. I'm excited.

It was really a fun read. Okay. Yeah. I know. Everyone says that and I've literally been meaning to. Why don't you read? We can read it together. It helps to read together to motivate.

Oh, that's good. Yeah. You won't put it down. Oh, I didn't. Yeah. I didn't put it down. Yeah. Like two days done.

Definitely doing it. It was great. That's great. I needed to, I needed that little motivation. A kick in the pants. Yeah, I sure did. Many kicks in the pants today. I feel like, I don't know why, but.

This has just been such a nice conversation. I know. Did we talk about, what did we talk about? We just talked. We just talked. That's all we do. But that's what we're here to do. You don't have a format.

You don't have anything. No. You're just like, let's just see what happens. Yeah, that's it. We kind of go with the flow. Sometimes it's scary, but we just still. No, you girls are not scary at all, by the way. Thank you.

This is comfortable. Oh, good. Happy to hear that. And you are incredible. And we were, you know. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but just it's always so.

Thank you. I'm not going to say, eh. I'm going to say thank you. Well, yeah, right? Because we always do that. You can't. I know. Yeah.

Me. Right. No. But it's true. And just to, but the nicest thing is to look up to someone for so long and idolize and just an icon and just be in. And to meet you and. and talk to you at length and just be even more impressed and amazed. And it's just always such the coolest thing. Thank you. The coolest ever. Nice. Thank you. Yeah. Nice. You're welcome. Nice.

Yeah. So hard to not do a yeah, but. Oh, my God. Or repeat compliment. Repeat. Oh, like, so were you? Like just get back. Yeah. Instead to just receive it. Receive it. It is hard. It's, we're working on it. We're working on it. But we're all programmed that way, it seems like. It's not everybody. Well, I think women. Women are for the most part. And like we talk about women always apologizing. Right. Yes. Yeah. It's a thing. I know. My older daughter used to always say to anything. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But really what she was saying was, shut the fuck up. Don't leave me alone. Just leave me alone. It was another way. You know, I'll just cut to the chase. Like, I'll just apologize quick. Right. And we won't have to, you know.

Which is, you know, you always tell your kids, look, the best apology is just don't do it again. Right. Just don't do it again. Right. And action. And then action. Yeah. It's okay.

You know, I appreciate the I'm sorry. Let's just not do it again. Right. Right. But not as a conversation shut down. Not as a conversation shutdown. It's just a total reroute. It's a passive aggressive.

It's like a, yeah, you know. Because then it, it deflects from the thing. And it's all about like the, I'm sorry. It's like, well, wait a minute. You know, what are you sorry for? Right. Exactly. You know, I'm not really sure, mom.

Just, I'm sorry. Just, can we be done with this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My son does that all the time. He'll be like, I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry. And I'll be like, well, your clothes are still on the floor.

So are you sorry? Right. It's just stop being you mom for a second. Right. I'm sorry. Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah.

Deflect. Stop being you. Stop being you for one second. It's also when somebody says to you, my husband does. this a lot, but he'll say, I'll say, how are you, honey? And I can tell something's going on. I'm fine. Oh, you're fine? Okay. You're sure? And my tendency is to go, really? Are you sure? Right. Like, why? You don't seem fun? What? And now I'm really learning when he says that. I'm just like, okay.

Right. Right. And like, you know, if you want to tell me, you'll tell me. God, that's hard. Oh, it's hard. It's so hard because you're like, you want to know. like what's wrong. Yeah. Yeah, because when somebody's face tells you one thing and their words are telling you another, you know, and then you just, you know, for me, I'm just learning, everybody's got to just figure it out. You know what?

Yeah. And I'm not there to figure it out for them. Well, my therapist said that really helped me, she's like, men need to go in the cave. So if he's saying, I'm fine, that means he's not ready to come out of the cave. Totally. And she's like, and you're taking a stick and running into the cave, walk away. way from the cave. Oh, God, good therapist. Right? Yeah. I know. So smart. I used to go, I mean, this is horrible. If he would leave the room upset, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he'd have an office downstairs, I would go to the office.

Chase. Right. Chase. Right. Yes. Absolutely. Wait a minute. We're not done talking. Yeah. And it was like, it took me forever to realize, and he would say, you know, at a certain point we get in the conversation, it's just white noise to me. You need to let me, you know, get back in my body. I'll come back. And I was like, oh, you will? And then, you know, once he started to actually show me that, it was like, oh, yeah, okay, I just need to chill. Yeah. Just be patient, you know, it's just wanting you have to learn, you know, you have to kind of like train yourself in a sense. Absolutely. Oh, you know, because it's your own anxiety. Right. It's really what it is. It's about you. It's totally about you. Yeah. Right. Like, if you're not okay, what did I do? Right.

Right. Right. Did I do something wrong? Yeah. Yeah. Like a good girl at all. So, but you're right. It becomes self-centered. It's about me. Right. Right. But if you really just leave it and it's not about you, it's whatever they're going through and you can walk away, which is so hard. Sorry.

Well, I tell him now, I'm like, okay, I can do that. Sometimes I need to be reassured. It's not about us. Right. Right. So you have to do is say, right. It's not about us. Yeah.

And then I'm like, okay. Does he do that? Still, I'm still really curious. Yeah. Yeah. He's getting much better. Yes. Yeah.

You know. So, yes, we both are. We've both learned how to, you know. Yeah. You know, it's that whole thing where they go away and I put. Of course. Of course. The push and the pull and the, yeah. Yeah. It's hard to understand. I'm like, what do you mean you're not ready to talk about it? Right. Right. Yeah. What does that mean? Right. And having to get okay with that because it is. Another thing is like, am I using them as a Xanax, right? Like, if I can, if you could be better, can we do that so that I can get rid of my anxiety. 100%.

A hundred percent. It's all about that. Yeah. It's like, I need to feel better. So now. Right. Yeah. And if you ever, if you grew up in a family where, you know, you felt that way a lot,

where like if they're not okay, I'm not okay. Oh, yeah. So it's your instinct to just want everybody to be okay so I can be okay. That's right. That's it. You know, it's reminding yourself that you. you're okay even when they're not. Yeah.

Right. It's a hard. And it's hard. It is hard. It's practice. You know, it's just really, you know, it's like, you know, you take the action first and then the feelings will follow. So you do the right footwork and then eventually it will become something that feels correct.

But if you, if you wait to feel right, you're not going to do it. That's what I've learned. It's never going to feel right to let them go in the cave. It doesn't feel right. Right. But once you see the results of that and trust that, yes, they are going to come back, it gets a little bit easier. Or, you know, it's just sometimes, you know, it's like it's so much more interesting to be in someone else's life.

That's what I'm always like, I'm so fucking sick of my life. Let's talk about yours, which is also a recovery tool. However, it can become a little bit of a Xanax, like you said. I don't just, I don't want to deal with my shit. Let's just talk about yours. Focus on that. Well, isn't that, I mean, to me, I think that was one of the first things that pulled me to acting. Huh.

Was, can I be someone else in someone else's life? If I can just pretend all these things, I'm okay doing that. Right. Right. Like, I think that a lot of times people that are drawn to that have that want to escape their life. Absolutely. I think any art is that. You know, I think muse, any art is kind of like,

it's just an adjunct so that you don't have to, well, you do have to go deep eventually. But there is that sense of I'm validated by this outside thing that I do. You know how they talk about global self-esteem and then self-esteem by what we do? So global self-esteem is just like, okay, every bit of me is a piece of shit. And then outside self-esteem is like, well, I'm not making money. I'm not blah, blah, blah, blah. And if we don't have good global self-esteem, then you're completely defined by what the thing is that you're not making money at or doing being successful at, right? Mm-hmm.

So I think that, yeah, identifying too much by what we do, like what we do is who we are. Dangerous. A little bit. A lot of it. Yeah, because then what you do is not going so well. Right. Who are you? Right.

Yeah. So that's a tough. That's one too. That is one. That's one. That's one. It's a big list. Yeah.

That's one. A list of money. Yeah. I could do this all day. I know. All day. We've already kept you. How late is it?

Yeah. We've kept you a very long time. Oh, we did. Oh, my gosh. You have to go, actually. You have to go. Love and marriage. Love and marriage.

It's an answer. You can't. Of course. Discarriage. It's, I tell you, brother. You can't have one without the other. Yep, we're here again. Here we are.

Back. We are back. New year. New year. New Rob. New Rob. Is that right? It's a brand new.

Shiny and new. Yeah. That vision board. Are we going to vision board? I got everything to vision board. You did? Yeah, for both of us. You did?

Do you want a vision board? Wait, when did you do that? Why didn't you tell me? I just haven't brought the stuff over. I need to bring it over. Thanks for telling me now. You went and bought some magazines and a poster board? Yeah, basically.

That's right. I loved a vision board. I got big poster boards and magazines and stuff. It's the best. Yeah. It reminds me like when you're a kid making collages. That's what we're going to do. Okay.

When are we doing that? Whenever you want. I could bring them next week. Great. Yeah. Very happy about that. Thank you. Also, we can maybe hang it up as new art in your new house.

That's right. Olivia's moving. I'm moving. It's official? It's official. Pretty much. Studio City? Pretty much.

I mean, pretty much. Oh. We'll finalize it, you know. Yeah. Yes. Speaking of which. thank God for Lorena because she puts up with the insanity of myself and my husband. Tell us a little more about Lorena.

Who's Lorena? Do you want to know about Lorena? Lorina is actually one of my oldest friends. I met her when I was like elderly friend? No. Or the longest. I met her when I was 17 years old with races and she came up to me at an acting class and started telling me everything I needed to do for myself.

She was like, you need to get your races off. You need to get headshots. You need to do this. You need to do that. She was always right about fucking everything. She then became my business partner. Just wait. She gave you orthodontist.

She gave me. Advice. She gave me everything advice. Everything. And then she became my business partner and we taught acting to children. And the three of us did an acting class together. We did. We did.

We did scenes together the three of us. She's just that person that knows everything about everything. So then when she went into real estate, I was like, holy fuck, that solves all my questions. It solves all the problems in my brain. Anyways, she's helped us through this process of anyone ever needs anyone incredible. Lorena Costino. Lorena Costino Holmes. And she's with Compass.

Okay, you guys. All right. So you know, like, as a parent, very seldom comes a night where you have a night to yourself. Yeah. You don't get that ever. Ever. No, I never have that, which I love. And a rarity occurred.

I too am very codependent. You don't love having a night off? No, of course. It's always like if you get a night off. Yeah. But what do I do? I lay in bed and I watch TV or whatever. That's great.

Okay. So I had one night and I'm like, all right. But I was kind of on call because Briar was doing a sleepover and she doesn't do sleepovers. So you never know how it's going to go. laying in bed and I'm like, okay, what am I going to watch? And we all know that, like, I've seen nothing. So I'm like, I should watch something, like, really critically acclaimed, like, that I've missed. And I'm going through Netflix and they have, like, you know, their one through 10 top movies.

And I see this one and it's like a period piece. And I'm like, that looks like a serious, I'm going to do that. That looks like, you know, I'm going to get into like a good, like a serious. Come out smarter. Period piece movie. It's going to move me. Yeah. So anyway, so I'm watching this movie.

And all of a sudden, I realize it's an erotic period piece. Wait, since why does Netflix have erotic movies? Apparently there is some erotica on there. Wow. Within the top 10 of movies. No, you guys, it's called like lady something, okay? And like, I had no idea. And there was a lot, a lot of sex.

Sexy time. Yeah. and nudity. And the movie's over two hours. Like, it's like a long movie. Did you finish it? I was up to 1.30 in the morning. No, but you guys, like, you're, but let me just tell you, it's actually a love story.

That's the whole point of the movie. It's like, it's about love and it's a love story. And I won't watch anything that's a love story. That's what got me sucked into it in the front of like, period piece. It's serious. It's a love story. I'm going to be like, but there was so much sex. Did you get pregnant?

I had no idea. And now I'm expecting. It was like, but yeah, of course I stayed awake. I had already napped though, to be fair. Like 9 p.m. rolls around often and I will fall asleep. I woke back up. Put on some porn. No, but I had no idea.

Was it acting then? Oh, the acting was great. Like, I was all in. It was good. It was like a serious movie. It was just, it really threw me with the amount of sex. So would you watch it again? I have five times.

No, but I was just like, you know, and it's like the one night and the one thing I wind up watching and it was just funny. It's amazing. Great. I wish you would have watched what I watched. What did you watch? Love wins from Mother God. This is like a weird day show. Some cult documentaries.

This one, though, is worth. Is it a cult documentary? Yeah. Leah was like, Olivia, please. you have to watch it. So I did and I couldn't sleep. It was so... The HBO one with Mother God or...

Is it HBO? It's what... HBO Max, I think. Yeah. Dude. It's Max. Dude. It's just Max now.

You like that stuff though. Why won't you watch it? I don't... You know what I think? Because if I put it on and there's episodes, I'll never go to sleep. Like, it'll just... I won't be able to turn it off.

I don't actually know. I don't know the answer. Because you act like you like the truth. True crime stuff. I do, but I purposely, because I've done it before when I'm home alone. Yeah. And it scares the shit out of me. This isn't scary, though.

Right. But like the thing, like I'll watch serial killer stuff. That's scary. Watch real scary. This isn't scary. Yeah. This is just like this. Oh.

What? Like mind boggling. Yeah, it's mind boggling. I can do that. Have you watched couples therapy on Showtime? No. No. You should watch that.

Is it good? It's good. Is it a documentary? Is it a documentary? A doxy series where this woman sits down with couples. Oh, that would be interesting to me. Can't wait. Yeah, I would watch that.

See, I need things to download on my iPad to watch on trips like airplanes. Do you think you should watch Love Wins? And I also think you should watch. In Bruges. Rob, I watched it last year. Did you finish it? No, but I watched most of it. It doesn't count then.

Something happened where I was like, I'm out. Oh, the kid. The kid died. Yeah. I was like, uh-uh. Uh-uh. It was like halfway through the movie. I can't do it if a kid dies.

Yeah. It's awful. Rob. Encouraging me to watch things like that. Jeff was showing me something recently in a kid die. And I said, I don't. Like, I can handle anything else. I'll even exit the conversation.

He was like, do you remember Pet Cemetery? I'm like, I don't want to talk about it. That one fucked me up as a kid. Did you guys watch Manchester by the sea? Yeah. No. I heard that was very different. depressing.

That was rough. So, yeah, I didn't watch it. No. Download that for the plane. No, Rob. No, thank you. I'm not taking your referrals

after in Bruges on the last plane. It was a really, and it's really good. It's really well done. I'm not saying that, but like it was intense. Yeah, you're never getting in a more. I like, what?

I'm going to get one of his movies now. Who's? Oh, the guy? I just said it's really fucking good. Yeah. It's intense. I'm obviously first on his list. Yeah.

But no, I, I want to do cozy on the plane. I like cozy on a plane. I like cozy on a plane. I love catching up on my like whatever reality on a plane. Oh, I like a romantic comedy on a plane. I love a romantic. You know what I have queued up? What?

You've got mail. I haven't seen it in so long. I repeat movies. Does that say something about my brain that like I just watch the same things? Is it that that's on a plane or that's everywhere? Everywhere. Because there is some, I mean, we've, we've, You're talking about this a million times.

Well, we're creatures of habit. About wanting to watch something comforting on a plane, your senses are very heightened. Your senses are so heightened that you'll be watching like something that is not anything emotional or whatever. Ball. Right, yeah. But you would pick, so this is fascinating to me though,

because this is different. Like, if I'm on a plane, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to go for a romantic comedy or something light, right? I would go dark or serious on a plane. Wait, what? Really? I would go for something that I had never seen. Yeah, it's got to be something you haven't seen because you wanted to go by fast.

No, but like, I would. You would go dark or serious. I would. That's interesting. I would do romantic comedy too, of course. But if there's a movie, like again, like a critically acclaimed movie that was like so good, but it's intense. With flying Cranston. But you said that you have you got male hued up.

I do because I have that too. If they're long plane rides. So, you know, you balance it out. But that is where I would actually follow through with watching some. something that I wouldn't normally. I don't, yeah, I don't rewatch. Like, there's so much I haven't seen that I would never, really. You're reaching an age, though.

I feel like you could rewatch. I love, I love watching a rom-com. There's only a few, like, that I would rewatch. Like, I could always watch Bridget Jones Diary. I could always rewatch. Right, there's cozy. Like, there's ones that I'm like, I could rewatch that. Love Actually.

But then I'll see, like, a cheesy romantic comedy. I would never watch and be like, you know what? I've done that. Let's do that. You know? Buckle up. Buckle up. It's getting cheesy.

But it's just, yeah, cozy and easy. Also, though, a lot of the time, Breyer's, like, right next to me on a plane, so I... So you're not pulling out that... Erotic Netflix. Dude, no, like watching White Lotus on the plane and some of those scenes, I'm like, you know, turn that iPad to the flight attendant who comes to ask me if I want to something to drink. I have a question about acting.

You know how, okay, like you're saying on a plane, you crave whatever. Do you crave, like, because sometimes I'll watch, like, I don't watch them that much, but like I'll see a Hallmark movie on or something. I'm like, oh, I just want to live in that world for a minute. Do you ever crave that as an actress to be like, oh, I want to play something really cozy, like a Christmas movie or like a something? or do you crave like I want to do something dark like I would say I crave more like dark and raw because I think like I would say heart of Dixie's more like you know cozy vibes

thousand percent cozy so I think going the opposite is something this is really interesting so a little bit ago I went and Josh Schwartz asked me to go speak with him at um lees strasberg oh yeah yeah yeah so there's like a class of people starting out writer acting whatever and we on stage and they were like asking. I'm like, they're going to ask me questions like that. But it was really interesting and they had good questions and a lot of it was just kind of navigating how to do it and get into it. And this one girl or no, sorry, this guy, no, was it a girl? Anyway, asked about what do you get excited about when you get these auditions or whatever? Is there anything that like, you know, you really want to do? And the more I thought about it, I was like,

no. I don't like acting. I don't like this. I hate it. No, I was like, I wanted to something really gritty. Right. And I was like, or a musical. Oh. That's a 180 from Gritty. Yeah, a little, you know, like to dabble. Yeah.

Yeah. That is fascinating because it's like you did the cozy with heart of Dixie. Yeah, I would say. Which is a comforting show. And I'm starting to wonder if I could show Breyer an episode of it. A thousand percent. I have to figure out which one. Oh, because you like make out with people?

No, I was thinking the medical stuff that gets kind of gross. What? Does it not? Oh my God, you should see what my children watch. Yeah, I know. Well, I know what your children watch. I don't think that's that big. It's fake.

You just explain to her that it's fake. Well, I was thinking about the pilot, and there is like a makeout, and there is a baby delivery. Yeah, but that's not that intense. It's fine. Is there more? It's the makeup. They're not showing vaginal. No.

No. I remember they put grape jelly on that baby to make it look like a crocodile after birth. I showed it to Elliot when he was like four Literally three maybe I need to watch it myself The Sawfrey Yeah but like he definitely I didn't have it

I need to watch I need to proof it You know what I mean? I'm just curious But anyways I feel like if her dad's gonna show her Star Wars At some point I can show her in a taxi That's what I'm saying She hasn't seen Star Wars? No No

Calvin's even seen Star Wars Star Wars. Really? Yeah. My kids have been watching Star Wars since they were born. Yes. They have. That's like... Star Wars isn't... Yeah. It's sketchy. I went to see Star Wars in the theater when I was like...

I mean, her dad plays, like, the villain. She knows that's not real. No, I know. I don't know. You know what? I have to tell you. I have never seen... Star Wars? It's not scary. I've seen, like, the original 70s, like, Star Wars. But not. I've seen some of the spin-offs.

What was the first one of the... Empire? The one with Anakin? Yeah, but as a kid. I've seen that one. Okay. But I haven't seen them, so I don't know. I've seen some scenes from them, but I don't know, so I don't know.

You know what I mean? I definitely think Breyer's old enough to watch Star Wars. But I feel like his character, like, kills children. Yeah, but it's, I mean, I get... Does she understand the concept of things being fake? She knows he's not a space. Like she knows he's really not a space collective warrior. He might want to show her now and she totally can't.

Like, you know, she can absolutely like watch. It's also like to handle it. Like you just explain while it's happening. This is how we did it. That's like a face thing. Also, it's probably something he would want to show her not. Yeah, of course. I'm not going to show her.

He's going to show her. And if he feels ready, I support whenever he feels ready to show it to her. We're way off on what we show our kids. Correct. And I understand that. Correct. No, I'm totally fine with it if he feels like it's the right time because it's his call, you know? Totally.

And then you can show heart of Dixie and the O.C. Whatever you want. The O.C., definitely not. But I was wondering about Hard at Dixie. That's going to be fun for her, though, when she's like a teenager and can watch the O.C. Yeah, I'm trying to think of, like, what age is appropriate. She's going to watch it. She's going to watch it.

Yeah. Yeah. I was too young. Yeah, but like she's going to be a teenager one day. Yeah. For sure. That's going to be cute and fun for her. Yeah.

Someday. I'm not saying that needs to happen today. I can't trust anything you say about how old watching things. Calvin's been really wanting to watch Are You a Prayer the Dark? Oh, no. What's that again? I don't know if they're. They must have started remaking it because kids at his school are watching it.

And he gets, like, scared and has nightmares. And we're like, you're not going to watch this. I know. That's the thing. The nightmare thing is what makes it really hard. She doesn't handle scary things well. But I think if it's her dad, she's going to know what's fake. It's going to maybe it'll be good for her. It'll be good for her.

And she's like, oh, wow, this is really not real. Yeah. Elliot was watching Transformers yesterday. I mean, not Elliot. Shepherd. Calvin's not a lot of watch Transformers yet. I know. but it was really cute because there's this scene with like this little boy and then this

I think it may be his brother but he's like much older and kind of like he plays like a guy that gets in trouble and Shepard's watching it and he's like his d-D like my brother I was like that's his D-D he's like that's his Dedy and I was like Oh, Oh, shepherd. Oh, Shepie Shep. What? It's so cute.

We went to the Topanga Social. Do you know what that is? So we went there. The things you do, and I have no idea you do. I know. Well, we went because they have this gluten-free pizza, D-Town pizza, which was like, it's like the thick Detroit-style pizza and they're gluten-free.

So good. It's really expensive, though. I was like, dude. Three-bun-old. It was like $45 for, like personal pizza, whatever. Anyways, we went and Shepard goes up to, they're doing music, like live music in the middle of the thing. And he goes up before while they're setting up, makes friends with one of the guys playing music. And so much so that the guy, like, brings him around and lets him flip the switches to like turn on the music and da-da-da.

And Shepard's like fighting him and doing all this. by the time they went to play their set. The guy dedicated it to his friend Shepard. No. He is the man about town, man. Like he... I know. Anywhere he goes.

I know. He's the man. I was like, of course, this guy dedicated it. Of course. To Shepie. To his friend Shepard. And he did his name sign. Oh, my God.

I know. I know. That is really special. That really gets me. Yeah. That kid. man. Well, Shepard and Elie can just

reenact all of movies for Breyer. Can we talk for a minute about what your guys' favorite pizza is and do like it thin, thick, like Oh, you know what I had? That was so good. What? Okay. You've had Prince Street

pizza? I don't think so. Have I? I don't know. But there was like, it was like a thicker, it was a rectangle. It's Detroit style. At Prince, is it called Detroit style also? Because it's called that at town, but I wasn't sure. Because I didn't, yeah, okay.

Rectangle, thicker. Spicy sauce, though, like the tomato sauce is spicy. Yeah. What is it called? Arbriata. A what? A rabiata. Oh, boy.

Okay. Arbietta. And it had, and then she's in pepperoni. But with the spicy. Crispy and crispy. thick like thick little pepperonies yeah like really good pepperonies it was so good yeah they crispy around the edges yeah they get crispy around the edges it's like ASMR tell me more tell me about that food uh huh yeah tell me I was a big fan of that just saying what is your favorite

style of pizza then I gotta be honest you guys I do love the like more Detroit style like I A fan You've had dough daddies, right? No Where's that? What is it? It started as Just some guy making pizza at his house

During COVID Oh really? And you would have to like Wait, have I? Is it the one in North Hollywood? And they were doing it out of like a tire station? No, that's weirdos. Oh.

Can we write? Can we write a list, Rob? Let's do like a list We need to do the foodie list Of all the recommendations, Rob. Please. But yeah, so they make Detroit style. And it was, like, when they were first starting, you had to, like, DM them to order.

And then you had to, like, let them know when you were at this alleyway. And he would, like, come out with this, like, wagon with the pizzas. And that's my that. What about the one in Echo Park? Quarter sheets. That's really good. Apollonias. It's another really good one.

these are all Detroit style in L.A. Town, destroyed, you like that. I like Detroit style, yeah. Is town different than D-Town? Yeah. Yes. Town is in Eagle Rock. Highland Park.

What's your favorite? I do love Barone's. Can't top baronies. Barone's is my favorite pizza. Yeah, me too. I'm obsessed with that. That's my number one favorite. Like if you ever had to, yeah.

Barone's is a valley staple here. Grew up on it. Yep. It is so good. It's different. I want you to come over and have it. Yeah. When I move, it's going to make it much easier.

You will not have a, you'll be like 15 minutes away. Me too. You too. But you should definitely come over and have Barone's. Yep. I don't know. That's my favorite, but then I also. Wait, what kind of pizza is it?

It's just, it's a rectangle. No, it's a rectangle. It's its own thing. It's like thin and almost. It's not like New York style. It's its own thing. And it's so good. Pepperoni's under the cheese.

Yeah, the toppings are under the cheese. Thin crust? Yeah, it's not thick. It's not thick, but it's not like New York thin. But it's kind of like crispy. It's hard to, you have to explain. It's not normal. It's its own thing.

Because there's, Ozies has a really good New Haven. In style. It's not. It's Valley style. It's Valley style. It's really good. But I appreciate, like, the Detroit. I appreciate also, like, a thin New York style pizza.

It has to be like. Chicago, but I don't know what, like, what's Chicago. My favorite New York style, I had in Long Island. You don't know what Chicago is? Deep dish. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I'm saying what here is that?

Gino's has it. Gino's East. Gino's East. That's a Chicago chain. Where is it? is there in Gino's east? In the valley. Is it still there?

It was on Riverside, I think, in the valley. There's Mossa and Silver Lake does the Chicago Deep Dish. That's pretty good. Gino's was good. I love it. But that's a commitment, man. So with Deep Dish and Detroit style are similar, right? No.

They're different, though. Detroit's not as thick. Like, deep dish is like... Thick and just a ton of sauce on top. Yeah. So sauce is on the top. That's what Deetown did. with sauce on the top.

I don't love the sauce on the top. Detroit style also has sauce on top, so it's hard. It's a lot of sauce. You have to be a saucy guy for that. Yeah, it's got to be a good sauce to do it. I didn't love that. I liked it. I had to take most of the sauce off, though.

I don't like extra sauce on my pizza. Do you do ranch dressing with certain pizzas? Certain pizzas need it. Barones. I don't need it with baronies. But some pizzas that are like mediocre pizzas, like I like it. I get a lot of shit because I eat pizza with a fork and knife.

You do? Of course you do. You know what I don't do? I don't understand. I don't understand that. I don't understand. No, you just cut it. You cut it.

I don't fold it. I don't fold it. Yeah, I don't do the fold either. It just like muddles the flavors if you do that. Yeah, I don't like to fold it. I definitely don't like a fork and knife it. I mean, that started, I think, from like my mom cutting my pizza at suburb. borrows at the mall.

That was like my favorite pizza place when I was a kid because we barely got to eat it. And then we go to the mall and get a slice of pizza and get cut up. It just tasted better when it was cut up for so much. I cut my kid's pizza. You know what I learned the...

Oh, I know this trick you're going to say. Every time. Scissors. I just Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. Anything I can cut with scissors, now I do. Caitlin taught me that. I know. Guess what?

What? We talk every day. We do. There's not much. That's why when I'm like, you watched a movie. I know. And you're like, you went to the Chufangas social? I know.

How did we not know that? Weekends sometimes we don't know because that's our only time we're like, we don't talk every second. That's it. Yeah. We get things on the weekends. Yep. Yeah. Speaking of kids.

Yeah. I have to go pick mine up from school. Rob's face. Cool. Cool. Cool story, bro. All right. Have a good one. Have a good one. Until next year.

Until next year. Next week. Bye. That was a hate gum podcast.