Broad Ideas with Rachel Bilson & Olivia Allen - Kristen Kish

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

Kristen Kish [Top Chef, Fast Foodies, Iron Chef] blows Rachel and Olivia away (and becomes their new best friend) during this week’s conversation! Kristen shares her adoption story, realizing she was gay watching Julia Roberts in Notting Hill, addiction-struggles, how she went from being a line cook to winning Top Chef and much more. Oh, they also talk about food... a lot. Enjoy!36 HoursFast FoodiesIron Chef: Quest for an Iron LegendSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hax is back for its fifth and final season, and so is The Hacks podcast. Join the Hacks creators and showrunners, Lucia and Yellow, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky as they unpack the Emmy-winning comedy series. On each episode, here's stories from the set, what goes on in the writer's room, and how these beloved characters close out their final season. Watch Hax streaming exclusively on HBO Max and listen to The Hacks podcast on HBO Max, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Broad Ideas.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Thank you, Rob. I was worried. You weren't going to say anything. Today, huge fan. Okay? Like, totally geeked out. I'm a huge Top Chef fan fanatic. Me too. This was my favorite guest so far. I'm a big fan of Kristen.

I am too. So Kristen Kish is on with us today. She was the Top Chef winner of season 10 of Top Chef. Not only did she win Top Chef, she fought her ass through Last Chance Kitchen and won the whole thing. Bad ass, okay? She has other shows out now. She's on the new Iron Chef on Netflix.

Yep, with Alton Brown. Are we going to do a field trip to go eat her food? We should, yeah. Yeah, so she has a restaurant in Austin. Let's do it. Not only is she on Iron Chef, but also season two of fast foodies. I'm a huge fast food junkie,

and I couldn't be more thrilled by this show. And season two is also out on True TV and HBO Max. She's just kicking ass all around, and I am so thrilled to talk to her. Without further ado, let's bring in the beautiful, the talented, the amazing Kristen Kish. Sometimes when the ones sick inside of Rachel's little brain,

All these thoughts are swirling round and round inside to join us on this journey as we take a little ride. We'll talk about dogs and kids and things. We'll talk about chicks and tampon strings. We'll talk about boys better make. Because people die. Hello. Hi. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. I am so excited to meet you. So I have to tell you, obviously, I'm a huge, you know, top chef fan. And you were my favorite of all time. Any season, any chef, you were so badass.

And I just, I just loved you. And I get starstruck more by, like, meeting you than if Brad Pitt was on the screen. Well, I will, I'm going to take that. Whether that was true or not, I'm going to happily accept that. No, no, for real, because I'm just so, I'm so much more impressed with what you do and what you did and the competitiveness and everything else. And I'm just such a huge fan. So thank you. I have to say that. Yeah. Wait, so do you guys cook? Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you like by the way, Kristen Kish is here with us today. Hi, Olivia.

My best friend. Yeah. Sorry. I just get really just too excited. I got right into it. But yeah, saying I cook to you is like, you know. Yeah, but you did spatch. Calk. Is that how you call it? Spatch block a chicken last night. I did my first spatch cock. She did. Yeah. I am de virginized by the cock. The spatch cock. I did it last night for the first time. It was horrifying. Because like, normally I asked the butcher at the market to do it for me because like I'm not getting in there. But I did. I got some shears out. Snap the back. It was so gnarly. I was like, oh, God, don't throw up. So you don't have a problem dealing with like, you know, there's some people that love to cook, but they don't like to touch. raw chicken. Like, it kind of grosses people out. That's me. It's definitely gross. But, yeah. And this one was like a super, you know, well-raised chicken that still had feathers and like plucking those off. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. Well done. That's disgusting. I mean, you know, it was a big moment for me because it was disgusting. But I was very proud that I did it because I was determined. I'm like, there's this one chicken dish that I really love. And the only way to do it

is if it's spatchcocked. So I now I have to know what the chicken dish is. So, so. So, It's like a paprika rubbed type deal. It was Allison Roman is her name. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's her thing. And it's like fennel and hot paprika, smoked paprika,

olive oil, garlic, pepper. Anyway, you make the rub and you just get it all up in there. That's amazing. Did you say lemon? And well, yeah, lemon is around the chicken. And you also put the rub on the lemon. It's like super involved. You really like, you really get close with the chicken during the process.

Well, I'm proud of you. Thank you. She cooks a lot. We both cook. We're both parents. So we both cook a lot of food. We have to feed our kids. You know?

Keep them alive. Yeah. Barely. She takes it up a notch. Well, you do. That's awesome. You care about cooking. I do love it because it's like therapeutic.

I don't know. Sometimes. Sometimes. Yeah. It's not always the most therapeutic. And I always say like you can love cooking. It's what you do for your job. In my case, or something you have to do for your

kids or something you enjoy, but you don't have to love it all the time. Right. So you don't love it all the time. No. There's some days where I don't want to do my job, right? Right. And just like anyone else in the world. So cooking is my job. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It was funny the other day, because my kids just had COVID. They're okay now and everything. But I was on the phone with one of our friends. And I was like, I got to go make them dinner. And she was like, make it sexual. And I was like, what? I'm like pulling cold chicken off of a carcass. Like there is nothing sexual about that. Make it sexual.

That's what she said. And I was like, uh, this is not sexy. Is food ever sexual to you guys? I'm more confused by someone said to you while you were making dinner for your children to make it sexual. It was Jennifer Vega. Oh, that makes more sense. Everything is divine feminine.

And I was like, yo, this is cold chicken from a store-bought road history chicken. Well, I mean, depending on any which way you can look at food, I feel like the same verbs and or adjectives that you describe cooking can often be described in sex as well. Like it's just they kind of are synonymous with one another. Yeah, sometimes it can be cold or wet. Correct. I mean, sometimes you don't want to do it. I don't know. It all tracks.

It all works. Yeah. It does. Yeah. So, and I recently got familiar with your fast foodie show, which by the way, I mean, first of all, I love shitty food. So this show is like really speaking to my sweet spot. Huh?

Yeah. And so I'm in my brain. I'm like, I have to come on this show. You know, I'm like, I need to do this. And I'm like, but what would I do? And then I realized I'm sure you've done like probably everything at this point. Yeah, but you know what's crazy about season two is that crazy wasn't the right word. Interesting is that we've brought in our horizons regarding what fast food is.

And I think as it should be, right? Fast food doesn't have to be McDonald's, Taco Bell, Arby, that kind of stuff. It also is Shake Shack. It's fast casual. I mean, we would have run out of restaurants to do in the first season if it was only, you know, fast food. But, yeah, we opened it up to, like, fast casual or things that people get on a road trip and things that are incredibly regional perhaps to where they grew up. So, yeah, you could bring anything and we could spin it to be fast food, so it's fine.

Got it. That's good to know. Yeah, because I was really racking my brain. You both could come on, bring two different things. And then we do a mashup of something because we have something similar like that in this season. Really? Ooh, a mashup. Because we did spend a good amount of time last night talking about what those things would be.

But that's what we do. Anyway. All we do is talk about food. It literally is like, okay, but then I want the extra sauce, and then we get it. And we go into detail. And it's like, are we 80? Are we just really lame? So wait, can I ask you what the first reaction of dishes that you would potentially bring? Oh, yeah. Because we already talked about it. Yeah. We both actually said,

Jack in the Box, spicy, crispy chicken sandwich. Yep. You've done it. We have. Diversions. Yeah. Oh, ranch. Yes. Dude. Thank you. But also, ranch is very particular. Like, when you get really good ranch, like islands, fries with ranch. Like, I'm a big fan. Do you know, do you have, do you know islands that change? It might just be a West Coast Lane. I don't. Oh, we could do islands. We could do islands. It does always make their food.

I just like their fries with ranch. I don't know what dish I would pick. Anyway, okay, so we did Jack in the Box and you went Taco Bell, which I know you've covered. Crispy Taco, Bean and Cheese Brito, no onions, extra red sauce. Oh, I like it. Yeah. Specific. Okay.

But what's yours? Have you ever had to do yours? No, they don't let us do that. It's not about us. We're just there to create the vehicle in which the food is. serve. Right. You know, I grew up in Michigan, so Arby's and chicken fingers and just fried chicken in general is like my jam and the curly fries. But now as a relative adult, I like Shake Shack. Yeah. I feel slightly better about myself. I also like what they stand for and Danny Meyer has

created as fast food chains and empire and all that stuff. So for multitude of different reasons, not just flavor. Shake Shack is definitely high up on my list. Really? Okay. I feel like I need to eat more of that. It's really good. I love a Shake Shack. situation. Also in Arby's, just the roast beef with ketchup and I'm straight. Wait, hold on, hold on. Ketchup? Yes. No cheddar. I like ketchup with my Arbys. Okay. I know. I'm down. Listen, I know. You guys could both be, I mean, the islands jam situation. Yeah. Jack in the box and you could do the Arby's with ketchup and we can make something pretty magical. I'm super happy. What about like top ramen? Like is that a fast food? Sure. I would

constitute that as fast food because fast food is just simply fast food. Right, like cup of noodles. Exactly. I mean, listen. Yeah. It's like endless. This is too exciting for me. All day long. I'm like submitting while I talk because I'm like so excited about this. But so you brought up something interesting about Shake Shack. How do you feel about Chick-fil-A? I don't like it because of what they stand for. Right. And Justin and I on the first season, first day of filming, we were like, you know what, Chick-fil-A is off the table. We're not doing it. We don't like it, period, end story. And everyone was like, great, no Chick-fil-A. So, I mean, so much about food is not only just how it tastes, but about where it comes from and who is behind it and different

things, like supporting the right places and doing the right thing. And Chick-fil-A is off the table. Yeah. You know, I really struggle with that personally because growing up, my family in Tennessee and when we got there, the first stop was Chick-fil-A, you know? And look, it's fucking delicious, like the chicken. Right. But it's true what they stand for and they're closed on Sundays and they're so not supportive of the LB Yeah. You know, there's all the letters.

All the letters. It's like a whole alphabet now. I'm like, oh, gosh. I can't keep track of any of them either. I'm just like, I kind of stop it like the T and then if I really want to keep going then I'll throw in the QIA.

Just, you know, depending how much breath I have to give. Oh my gosh. Yeah. LGBQI. And then what's the other one? IA plus. So for a long time,

matter, we all had an issue with the word queer and what it actually meant and it was used as a derogatory term and now it's become this thing that is all encompassing. Right. And so it's queer that covers every letter that is potentially coming in there or even if you're not any of those letters, just something that makes you feel different or uniquely special, right? Queer can be used like that. So I'm still a student in learning how to use that word. Yeah. You know, it's hard because we were told not to for a long time. But I guess taking the ownership back of a word, that used to be used against us. Right.

I wonder if queer eye is kind of like a little responsible for normalizing the word and using it in a positive way. By the way, love that show. Yes. Oh, me too. It is so good. It's so good. We're watching it the other day crying.

I mean, bawling. Just bawling, you know, the whole time. It's really, really just strikes my little insides. Her insides are very little. They're very little. But yeah, but it's so interesting that now, you know, it is a different thing. And there are so many letters and whatnot. And you wrote a children's book, right? And did you have all the letters on your book? No. So I wrote a journal and that journal

was kind of prompted by wanting to do something larger to raise money. You know, I think I'm personally debilitated sometimes by all the wrong there is. And you're just like, where do I even start to even fix anything? And understanding like, you know, we are not solely responsible for fixing the world. And it's okay, just to do the small little things here and there. And so it's not like writing a major cookbook, which took me three years. Like we could do this and we could give all the net proceeds to a non-for-profit, which was kind of the whole catalyst to wanting to do it. Yeah. And the idea of wanting to write down and to prompt feelings in children and even adults to talk to their kids, I think it's really important. And I mean, I grew up with very supportive family, an amazing mom and dad and brother. But we didn't

oftentimes talk about like deep-seated feelings. Right. And so it wasn't until later on in life that I got real comfortable with going there, not only with myself, but also with my mom and my dad. So when did you, you know, first of all, did you always feel, you know, that you were gay and you knew way back when? You did. Oh, my God. I've known.

I mean, I knew. Like, I knew when I was, you know, back in, like, the instinct days that all my friends are, like, choosing their favorite boy. Yeah. I don't know. You're like, I'll take that one. Joey Fetone. They're like, you don't like Justin?

Right. And I just, you know, I always kind of knew that I didn't have that same level of attraction, even before realizing what actual romantic, physical, sexual relationships were defined as. And so I remember this very, very vividly. When Notting Hill came out, I think it was like the 90s, early late 90s, I don't know. And we went to go see Notting Hill in theaters. And I walked out. it was this one scene, Julia Roberts is in that conference room waiting for all the

interviewers to come to her. Yes. And she's in a fucking power suit and like the hair, everything about it. I was like, ooh. Oh my God. I love that. I think I feel something. And I walked out of that theater and I was like, God damn it.

Like, fuck. Because like no one teaches you want how to be gay and how to like come out. Right. Even though it was very much accepted in my family and we weren't taught not to support or love who we want to love. But I was like, I don't know how to do this gay thing. So I remained very closeted for a very long time. And then eventually I did end up falling in love post-top chef. And that was the reason to come out because I wanted to have my same love that everyone else gets to have. You know, and that social media became a thing. And just like, I remember, I posted a year

anniversary picture of myself and then my then girlfriend. And everyone was like, oh my God, we knew it. or congratulations and all this stuff. And I was like, wait a second. First off, why do you all care so much? Second off, I realize, I guess, the enormity of what it actually means when someone steps into their own self. And so having that power, I was like, oh, shit, okay, this is great. And so I got real comfortable with talking about who I was, the things that I possess and the things that make me me from that point forward. You're super dope. Yeah. You really are. We, yeah, we, you know, went deep on you. And you, And I kept saying to Rachel, I'm like, so we're both straight women, but you're so attractive. Like you really, you really are. I'm like, she's hot. And, you know, also I think that one of the things that really stands out about you is your level of self-acceptance and how you felt to where you are today is astonishing and really beautiful because that journey is.

something that I think a lot of people have a really hard time with. And so for you to kind of step in the light and pave the way for other young people is a really big deal. Thank you. You know, I think a lot of that comes from having hid all of that part of me for so long and being so unaware of who I was and what made me me me and being unaware of the choices I was making and how they were negatively or positively impacting my life. And so I, I don't know what happened. Maybe it's maturity or maybe it's life experience. Maybe it's making too many bad decisions and realizing that's not going to work out for me to be able to step into this space of like opening my eyes to every single thing that's around me and understanding that

every moment, every second, this even chatting with you two, like this moment will impact something later on in the future that will eventually spider web and I can like start pulling the strings and connecting all the dots. And that's like the cool thing about. life. Yes. Where you're like, hold on. That happened because of that. That happened because of that.

It's just like constant. And it's this to be continued story that I think is like really fascinating. Yeah. Absolutely. And it sounds like, you know, for a long time, you were older when you came into this, at least openly, you know, in your first relationship. And when you said it was after Top Chef, my mind was kind of blown, you know, because. Well, I will say, I had moments in college.

Okay. You explore, yeah, you did your thing in college. Did you ever date guys growing up? Oh, I did. You did. Yeah. Okay. You know what?

I have to tell you, Kristen, you're really lucky in one sense because there's nothing scarier to me than a new penis. Okay. I'm so serious. I can imagine a new vagina might be scary too. Okay, fine. But like, at least you have more, like, there's limits there. You know what I mean?

Like, penis is just like this crazy alien force. Okay, anyway, when I became single, my thought was like, oh, fuck. Like, if I date a lot of guys, if I sleep with a lot, I got to meet all these penis. Peenai. Just kidding. I have to meet all these penises. And I'm like, this is horrifying. Like, oh, God, like that first grab, that first look.

Like, it's just, anyway, it's very anxiety-inducing. So I feel like you're very lucky. I would not be as scared. I mean, you know what? Maybe guys would argue. Rob. Rob. Rob?

Yes, yes. Would you be, like, when you were younger and, like, dating, did that ever, like, did you ever meet some really, you know, interesting vaginas and, like, is that a scary thing? Yeah, I mean, it can be. Yeah. I would imagine. That's fair. My husband's delivered a lot of babies because he's a doctor and I've really gotten down with him, like, our vagina's all different. Because I'm not like a, I haven't seen a lot of vaginas.

I'm not like into that, you know. And he's basically like a vagina's a vagina. Okay. And he's like summer, you know, hairier. Very professional. It's so very professional. Yeah. Clinical.

Yeah. But I would imagine that would be a little. It was mostly grooming. I would say. Grooming. Yeah. That's more than, okay. Yeah.

All right. But with us, it's like, it's like, gers. Like, like, oh yeah. There's so many things that go into what makes her break. Sorry. I mean, there's variety. But I'm sure this is your face.

favorite topic, by the way, is penis. No, it's great. I don't get to talk about them often. Yeah, you're like, okay, like food and like, okay, let's go there. Sorry, I just tend to do that sometimes. I'm a little all over the face. Well, I mean, anytime, right, anything new is oftentimes frightening, right? No matter if it's a vagina or a penis or, you know, or anything in between, whatever.

Whatever you're into. I don't know. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the penises. That's a fair statement. It's so interesting. Like, I've thought about sexuality a lot. I'm a fan of it, right?

And I've wondered, because there's been times in life where I'm like, God, it would be so much easier to be with a woman. Don't they miss dick? Like, don't they want that? And it's like, no. And I've had to, like, really think about that. Well, they have a strap on. Yeah, but it's like, it's not the same craving, I would imagine. Sorry, we've gone off the wrong.

rails. No, I mean, I think it's, I think it's, I think women are far more emotional of natural human beings, right? And sure, yes, there is a very distinct like male and female and body parts that come along with those things. I have so many friends that have had the same discussion with me and they're like, you wish you could be gay, but like you don't like vaginas, like whatever, that kind of thing. And I'm like, okay, well, you're not gay and you're straight. So you don't even have to think about it like that. I don't know. Yes, I place value and there certainly is something in the extremities of a human being, but that is secondary to the human that it's attached to. Right. Right. Right. And so, I mean, I definitely know that I am not fluid in my romantic relationship. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

It's very much women. So I can very confidently say, yes, I like vagina more than I like this. Yeah. I love it. But, you know, for a lot of people, it's very fluid now, you know, and I hear that the beauty of exploring sexuality and different things like that, you know, it's a connection, soul connections, deeper levels that I feel are far more important than anything else. I keep seeing it more and more. You know, people coming out as they and, you know, just it's very, but then it's, it's, it always brings the question like, well, is it trendy right now or is it just people feel safe to do so? I think it's safe. I think it's safe. It's a safe space to enter into. It's a safe space to change your mind. Just because you declare one thing about yourself doesn't mean you always have to. Or if you're very sure,

and it will be your forever pronoun, fantastic. But I think, you know, the beauty of being able to talk about it in a way that doesn't feel divisive or frightening, depending on who you're speaking about it with, is leaps and bounds better than what we were many, many years ago or even just two years ago. Right. How did it go when you came out to your family? You know, it was great, honestly. So I grew up in suburbia, Michigan, very Midwest.

I think there were one or two, like, gay people that I knew in my school. and I remember coming out and I knew I wasn't going to be able to come out until I actually fell in love. Like I had a feeling because it just did not feel. I can't be like, hey, I'm gay. And then there's nothing else to attach to it. And so I told my mentor at the time, Barbara Lynch, who I was working for in Boston, I told her first because she also had a girlfriend. And I was like, well, this is great. Hey, I also have a girlfriend.

So that was easy. The next step was telling my brother, because I was like, my brother, I was like, fine, fuck. He's been like, cool, Kristen. Like, great. I wasn't scared about his response whatsoever. I toggled between my friends figuring out who to tell first. And I told my parents. And I remember I was laying in my little studio apartment in Boston.

I'm looking at the ceiling. And I'm like, fuck. I'm going home for this book tour thing. And I was like, I want to bring my girlfriend. And I was laying on the bed. And I'm like, so, mom, I have something to tell you. I'm dating someone and we're going to come home. Great.

Kristen, who is he? Okay. Well, mom, it's a she. And it felt like radio silence for a very long time. And I was like, please, someone say something. And I was sweating. And, you know, when you're by yourself and no one can see you, but you still close your eyes open, you feel invisible.

Yeah, that was happening. And then all of a sudden she goes, well, I think we already knew. And I was like, huh, okay, where do you go from here? Where does the next sentence come? And she was like, are you happy? And she said, are you sure? And her line of questioning was very much this maternal, I want you to be okay and I want the world to treat you okay.

So I'm just need to make sure. I was like totally. And I was like, I'm very, very sure. And I'm really happy. She's like, great. We're happy for you. We can't wait to meet her. And that was kind of it.

And my dad is a man of very few words, but like the most gentle soul you will ever meet. And in the back, He's like, well, that's great, Kristen. Exactly how it talks. He was like, well, we can't wait to have you. And I still remember to this day, the thing, that line of questioning was solidified as care. Even if I already knew it, but like when Trump and Pence were elected into office, fucking Christ.

My mom called and was like, Kristen, listen, I'm not so worried about what Donald Trump is going to do for gay rights. But Mike Pence is this like very known, you know. anti-gay stance. And she was like, well, I'm scared. And she cried on the phone and I was like, fuck, this is what she was worried about of me not being treated fairly. And she'll still ask me, when I go traveling,

she was like, Kristen, can you go to Dubai and like we open your relationship? Please be careful. Like that kind of stuff. Right. And I was like, there are places in which we still have to be very, very conscious of what it looks like, obviously.

That makes me so emotional. I know, me too. But like my mom, that was kind of like that full circle moment much late. much later on that was like, okay, that line of questioning was because of this exact moment that's happening in our country. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's exactly the climate we're in now, or at least parts of this country, which is terrifying. It's like, how could we go so far back? You know, we've made such amazing strides and progress. And it's just like, you want to just

hit your head in the wall. It's just very frustrating. I know, I know. But my mom loves like my wife and she's genuinely obsessed with her. She's like, that's beautiful. And she's like our family and I've incorporated it to hers. And it just, you know, we've, we have a really wonderful structure in, you know, our arms. Yes. Yeah.

That's really amazing support. And how long have you been married? We got married. Great question. April 18th. April 18th, 2021. Oh, so it's new. Congratulations.

That's awesome. Yeah. We've been together for a few years now. But we finally realized, like, just like the rest of the world, pandemic wasn't going to go anywhere. And she's from Australia. Her family lives in Australia. And so, like, getting everyone together was impossible. And we're like, well, if her family can't be there, then we don't feel right holding this big wedding.

And they aren't allowed to come. And so we just did a backyard wedding with her, me and our Justice of the Peace and our family on Zoom. That is really sweet. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. your mom too. Like there's something really beautiful about that. And as moms, we care a lot about how mothers treat their children, obviously. And I love the fact that, because you've openly

talked about being adopted. And I think there's something so beautiful about the fact that she chose to love you, you know, and that is powerful. Yeah. She, we've had this conversation, and now that I'm in a place, obviously, where I can understand it more so than being a child. So she taught for 39 years, child psychology, early childhood development. Like, yeah. And so she knew she was going to adopt. She had my brother. He's eight years older than I am, biological to my parents.

And it was always like, well, we're going to have one of our own and we're going to adopt. I recently asked her in the past year. I said, well, what did you want to be when you got older? Like, are you happy with how your life turned out? Because I think it's important to ask our parents that now, as we view them more as humans and less of like mom and dad, right? And she was like, no, I always, I always knew. Like being a mother was what I wanted to do.

And having one of my own in adopting because she just, you know, there's so many babies out there that need homes, you know, all that stuff. So she was very clear in her decision and she was very clear on the path that she was going to take. And I think already having that mindset of not knowing that like two or three years prior to adopting me, like she knew it from day one. And yeah, it is not forgotten. I think about it all the time about feeling, the feeling of choosing, right?

And choosing your own path and doing your own child and having the choice to say, I'm going to do this. Like, it's huge. And like, honestly, if I talk a lot about it will bring me to tears. Because I think about my life in a lot of ways connected to my parents about the choices they had to make an order for me to even just be sitting here talking to you. So it's, yeah, it's,

it's heavy sometimes, but it's like happy, good tears. But yeah, yeah, I just want to do good for them and like, you know, do they just do good things. You can make me cry. I know. But it sounds like you have such an amazing support system and your whole family feels like, I wouldn't be a part of your family is how it's making me feel like just so cool and accepting and loving. and how lucky, you know? And I mean, it's just a beautiful thing. And you were adopted very young, right? Four months old?

I was adopted at four months old from Seoul. So what I know is I was born. The lady went into a clinic. She gave birth to me. Room number two. She was five, five, permed hair, and wearing a navy sweatsuit. And that's all I know.

That's all you know. Yeah. And so from there, she popped me out. And they waited four days for her to come. back and she never came back. And so I think that's legally there's some time frame that you have to wait. I was handed over to the officials. The police department actually named me, or so what I'm told. Kuan Yongran is my Korean name. And then I was shuffled around orphanages and then I was adopted. And so already those first four months being very, very young, have impacted so much of like who I am as an

adult. You know, I had to deal with abandonment issues and like to hold on all. all that shit, right? Yeah. And not feeling like I'm grasping on to everything just because I feel like I'm going to lose it. Right. Yeah. Well, how old were you when you learned all this information? I was given the papers at 16.

Okay. I think we requested them at 16. I think at 18, maybe I was allowed to like open up a search if I wanted to. I started. I went 50% there and I was like, yeah, no, no, no, back pedal. And I went through a different range of emotions thinking this is what I wanted. versus this is what I feel like I have to do, or versus, you know, the expectation of these next moves I'm supposed to make in my life. But no, so I haven't gone back to Korea. I haven't explored

opening it up. I haven't done any of that stuff. And 25% of me is afraid of the outcome. Yeah. Of not knowing and finding out enough. 75% of me is like, well, you know what? I'm good. I'm busy. Like, I don't have time. It doesn't feel as important of a priority. to stop everything I'm doing now to then go do that. I have a connection in that way of, how many years ago now? Four years ago, I went on 23 and me, and I had known my mother had given a baby up for adoption. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's something I knew.

She told me at about 15. And my brother and my sister and I all knew. And I always wondered about him. We knew it was a boy, and that's all we knew. It was a closed adoption. And I went on 23 and me and I clicked something like connect with relatives and ended up stumbling upon what came up as an uncle. And I'm like, do we have an uncle Steve?

And, you know, it was this whole thing. And then we put the pieces together and I wrote him. And I was like, I have reason to believe you're my brother. And he's like, that's why I got on 23 and me. And we've connected. He got to meet my mom. It's my mom's biggest wish in life was to meet him. He's part of the family now.

He's one of us, which is just mind-blowing. He's a beautiful person. He has a lot of the same things that we went through with addiction and all kinds of stuff. But we stumbled upon it. We didn't go out searching. But with 23 and me and all that stuff, do you consider that? I did 23 and me. Oh, you did? I did. And here's the thing. Being adopted, and I'd be curious to hear what your family thinks on it, is that I feel like the only thing I truly missed was having a picture or a reference of saying, these are the two people that created this, who they are. I want to know what they look like physically. I want to know what they do. I want to know who they are emotionally. Because so much of our genetic pool is dictating our future in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah.

And so not having that information is a little, I don't want to say unsettling, but can be if I overthink it. And so I missed having a reference. I'm like, you know, people talk about, oh, you have your mom's eyes or like, you have your dad's nose and like, you're like, what does that feel like? So I did 23 and me. I found out that I am 90% Korean, 10% Japanese, 90, 10% Japanese, very clear. And so then what ends up happening is I start thinking about like, oh, my God, was I given up? because my birth mother had an affair with this Japanese something. And then her parents found out, you know, you start getting up all these stories. You're like, wait, could I be like Korean-Japanese royalty?

Like, what am I doing here? You start, like, going through all of it. And every single time I think about the story changes. But, yeah, honestly, that's the only thing I feel like I miss. And even just having that 90-10 fact makes me feel a little bit more settled in my past. You know, and I think maybe one day I'll, I'll explain. for it, but I also know that I need something bigger to push me along to do it. Right. And I think the way it happened in my family was pretty organic and it just happened.

And I think that there is something really cool about, you're meant to know what you're meant to know, right? Like you either follow the threads that your internal guidance system is leading you to. And it sounds to me like you're really in touch with that. Like, for today I'm good. You know? Yeah. And I think understanding why I was behaving and doing and becoming this person in a lot of, like, negative ways, was so much linked to the unsettling piece of my life, right? And so instead of trying to find all the answers, because I could be searching my entire life and I could never find it. And all of a sudden, you're like, well, shit, I'm just going to, like, give up, like, I'm never going to do this. The weight became, I guess the value where I placed all of it became let's take.

figure out why you are doing the things you do and why are you the way you are. But let's not try to fix it. Right. Let's just become slightly more aware and then understanding how to live and coexist with these things that make you kind of like pedal forward instead of completely stopping. Right. Right. So I think those two things are interchangeable in figuring out how to like just keep going. There's a point in my life where I just was completely fucked for lack of a better term. I was going down a really shitty path. And that was like, well, it was bad. Emotionally.

Emotionally. Emotionally behavior. Yeah. So when I was in Chicago, I had graduated high school. I started going to school for international business and economics. Really shitty. I thought it was going to give me this life that I have always wanted. And I realized that that wasn't happening.

And I moved to Chicago. I went to culinary school. And I was good in school, but I hadn't quite figured out, Kristen outside of school yet. So I was like straight A student, really good. I was on time every day, but then you get me out of class when that's done. I'm at the bar. I'm like doing drugs like all this shit. Right? Yep. And I remember waking up one morning in an apartment that I did not earn that my parents, my parents are not rich, but they would have done anything to give me what I need. And I woke up and I was like, my God, this idea of perfection that I'm striving for is that.

thing that is going to pull me out of this eventually. And it did because I was laying there and I was like, I'm either going to die or I'm going to go to jail. Like something bad is going to happen. And I woke up and I was like, I can't do this. That compounding with my parents being like, well, we're going to financially cut you off because you're not doing anything. And I was like, well, okay, I have no choice but to move home. And so I had to move back home. I lived in my pajamas for four months, horribly depressed. And then they gave me another shot at it and I moved to Boston. And how did you change from there?

Like what changed? It was a very slow change. So the idea of reaching for perfection and feeling like and looking like I had everything figured out, which is what the drugs did, which is what the alcohol did, which is what all this bullshit did. Eventually there was a tipping point. And now it was like, well, Kristen, you're going to be viewed as this fuck up. Like you're going out.

you're not doing anything with your life. Like all these things aren't cute anymore. Like they were cute at one point maybe when you were in school, but like welcome to the adult world. It's not going to work anymore. And that was ultimately what helped me shift it. And I was like, well, I don't want to be a fuck up. I don't want anyone to think I'm a fuck up.

So I'm going to find a different way. And it didn't jump from like unhealthy to healthy. It jumped from unhealthy to a relationship I did not necessarily want to be in, right? And codependency. And so it kind of like bounced. from little things to little things until I figured out what I was actually doing and how I was masking these things. But they eventually got a little less unhealthy. I feel like going from drugs and alcohol to codependency is a slight journey up.

For sure. I wasn't going to die, but maybe I'll still be sad, but it's okay. So like, let's just keep making these steps. Keep moving forward. And then is that, so you were already at culinary school, but then you just, after that, you went back to it and kind of full steam ahead. Is that sort of the... Well, so old habits, don't die young. And so essentially, I moved to Boston and I was like, well, I'm not going to take any job unless it's this kind of job. And that's what I was doing in Chicago. So I wasn't being hired for anything because I was reaching for things I was completely unqualified for. And eventually I go to Boston and I start doing the same shit. And I'm like worried about what

people are going to think. And, you know, all my friends are like engineers or they're going to do this. I didn't have my surrounding community of like creatives yet. And I started searching for the wrong job. I eventually took a job working the line, you know, like I should for minimum wage. And it was there. I met my best friend. Right. And I think that was like, I was supposed to take that shitty job for a multitude of different reasons. And meeting my best friend was like the main thing. I feel like I got out of that. And so eventually we found our way through this career. And, you know, I took jobs that were good and some jobs that weren't so good. But eventually I found my way to my mentor, Barbara Lynch, who will be my forever mentor. And that's when things really started to shift.

Because she's the one who said, I have to go on top chef. Really? I didn't want to. You didn't want to do it. Oh my God. No. I was like, I was socially anxious, very awkward, completely like a nervous wreck of like being judged my whole life. This is why all this shit started to come out. Yeah. And I'm like, who's going to put me this person with all this random shit that I haven't dealt with on television to say, just go and do it? And I was like, well, I guess all you have to do is go on there and cook.

So the cooking part I got under control. The other shit, not so much yet. But I just went on there and I cooked. You went on there and kicked ass is what you did. Thanks. I mean, that is just so insane. And with the social anxiety and everything else, but like now thinking, not knowing, you know,

this much about you, obviously on the show, you're just like this badass cook that's kicking ass. And you wouldn't even know. And like all the other stuff that you've overcome and everything, which is just so amazing. And it sounds like when you speak about all this stuff that you've really done the work, you know? Like...

I try. Yeah. Yeah. It's very impressive how you talk about it all. You know, I think that I had the right. people in my life to like prompt these things and like to prompt thinking in these situations where I was like, wait a second, normally, honestly like brush it another rug, let's just deal with it, let me just carry the weight of the world on my shoulders and never tell anybody. And, you know, it was through friendship, through mentorship, through even relationships that are since

no longer, like ex-girlfriends, I learned an incredible amount about myself and how I'm behaving and what my actions lead to. And, you know, I think back to the times, I'm like, God, I wish I didn't have to, like, put anyone else through it with me. But it just, but it just makes me feel really honestly, truly grateful for the people who were there that may not be here any longer because of obviously relationships and exits and things, but paying value and tribute to those people because it was just those are the reasons why I know things started to shift for me. You're so impressive. Did you have to get rid of that? Here's my alcoholic brain. Did you have to get rid of the alcohol and the drugs? No, I don't. I don't like drinking. I don't. I did drugs so I could keep up with my

friends drinking. Oh, okay. Yeah. My Asianness doesn't allow me to drink copious amounts of alcohol and feel great about it. Like your drunk feels different than my drunk. A thousand percent. I get like red in the face, my head pounds, like my heart beats so fast. And so when I did drugs, it offset the alcohol. And so that's why I relied on it. Yeah. Growing up, that was me. I hated drinking and I would just do drugs to keep up with them. And let me tell you, keeping up with them was no easy task.

Right. Yeah. But yeah. And meanwhile, you guys are in a thing together realizing like the same struggle as there, but you're both trying to keep like, I don't know if it was the two of you together, but you're trying to keep up with all these other people that are also trying to keep up. Yeah. But no one wants to fucking talk about it.

It's a rat race. Well, we grew up here in L.A. going out to the clubs, like all that, you know, young, like way before we were supposed to be there. Definitely not of age. And, you know, and you're just keeping up with this whole scene and it's gross. Let me tell you. When people are like, oh my God, you're in L.A. and you're going to this club and there's like, no, it's disgusting. And VAPID. And we went, I mean, I think that that's part of what's also bonded us so tight as friends is we've been through everything together, you know, since being teenagers. like all the pain, all the struggle, all the addictions, all the codependencies, relationships,

breakup, all the dicks. And it's a lot. It's about it's having people around you that just completely hold you accountable for every action and different thing you're doing. Or saying, you know what, today I'm not going to hold you accountable. Today I'm going to just let you do what you need to do. And then we'll talk about it later because that's also really important. Yeah.

So we'll have like, it is incredible. Oh, my God. I called you out, remember? Which time? Which time? It's what we do as friends. Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah. When I, oh, geez. Yeah. When my drinking and I made a fool of myself. Actually, it's a callback to in sync because it was to Justin Timberley. It was. No, it makes my face hurt. She gets so uncomfortable. She was wasted. Wasted. Like, she wasted. Like beyond. And, you know, and I didn't drink. So I'm definitely like observing everything that's going down. because we grew up in L.A. You know, you're around certain people. And it was embarrassing. It was embarrassing.

I was, look. She basically was like, stop it. No, I can't. I can't. I did not sit on his lap. No, I know. No, she didn't.

But like, we were sitting next to each other at one point. And she, literally, there was this much room in between me. And Olivia plopped down and squeezed herself into this much space to sit next to I was thirsty. I mean, it's okay. You had plenty to drink. You weren't thirsty. Yeah, but anyway, so the next day, like, I called you out.

I was like, dude, like, if you could have seen yourself how you were behaving around these people. It hurt deep. It, like, no, it literally shook me and hurt me and, like, was one of my wake-up calls to getting sober. It was, like, I am not who I know I could be. I know that there's someone in me. And that, like, oh. So you said one of your wake-up calls, like, can you pinpoint that exact moment we were like, and we're done now?

Yeah, I actually can. I remember waking up to Taco Bell on my bedside, which a lot of women would go home with guys. I would eat myself for it in the morning. I woke up to an empty bottle of wine with a bunch of cigarettes put out in it, Taco Bell, and, like, text me. messages sent to a guy that I had recently broke up with that were, I don't even, I don't even know. And like, deeply shameful text messages. And like, I remember just waking up and being like, I can't do this anymore. And like I'd known for years, I couldn't do it anymore.

It wasn't some like, you know, car accident or anything. It was literally, I felt like that bottle of wine with the cigarette butts put out in it. I was just empty, broken. trashed, like, and I just knew. And but my, I come from a whole family of addicts. So I was like, it was kind of like that vampire thing. Like I knew what I was early on. Right. Right. I like that analogy. It's I guess sometimes when you do know so much of your past, like it kind of, whether you want to or not, it's, it's subconsciously writing your future. So like there's a double-edged sword, right? You're like, well, I know, maybe if I didn't know, it wouldn't have, You know, you kind of sort it all out.

Which is interesting to meet my brother because he, when I met him, was 10 years sober. So he was adopted into a family, fantastic family, good people, raised him well, ended up an addict and got sober. And he had always wondered, like, nature versus nurture, like was this pre-written in my DNA, you know? Wow. That's crazy. Yeah, it really is. It's like there's so much, you know, I'm learning. So my wife, she was in food and beverage. She still is as consultant. But her heart lies in breathwork and healing and, you know, all that and stuff. So she does breathwork therapy. Awesome. So I'm learning a lot about things that are out of our control. So 80 plus percent of our actions are based off of our subconscious mind, right? That's a lot. Like we are under control, this thing that we don't even know we're under control. And, And that idea of wanting to tap into the subconscious mind to kind of like start to rewire is really interesting to me. It's understanding those things that we are wired. We are already pre-wired. And if you

want to shift it, you got to like go in there and do it in like hypnosis or breathwork. It is hard work. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. Wow. So you do that with her? Does she, well, no, I observe. She tells me about what she's learning and what she's doing. I know I can't do it with her because, you know, it's kind of like there's a line in a relationship where like you don't poop with the door open, right? Right. Don't do that. You don't.

I don't get therapy. No, I don't get therapy with my wife. Like you just don't do that. Right. That makes sense. But it's a really interesting way of seeing things. And that's kind of what I mean with past relationships and current day relationships of having more people around you that are championing and preparing you to be more aware with yourself.

Yeah. You know, one thing. learned about, I think you're basically under the state of hypnosis from zero to seven, I think rational thinking doesn't come in until around seven. So everything is just straight going in without rational thinking to be like, no, that's not true or you can see that a different way. So whatever's put in you from that time is the rest of our life's work to get to, right? Yeah. So, I know. And having kids, I'm always like, what are we programming in? Oh, God. How should we talk to our kids? I do really want to know that because I have a hard time. I'm not sure how to talk to my children about gender and sexuality. And like, are there appropriate ages to do that? Are there not? Like, because everything we're doing is hypnotizing them. We're programming them. And so you have to really wonder.

I just think like my daughter has a friend at school, you know, who has two moms and she's been at school with her since she was like two years old. But she doesn't even question it. You know what I mean? Like it's just like, yeah, no, she's two moms because love is love, you know, and that's kind of like how I've approached it. And it doesn't see, you know, necessarily people or gender or whatever that it's just like, no, love is love. Yeah, you can have two moms. You can have two dads. You can have, you know, whatever. But it is an interesting thing. And it's so much more like, what's the word for it? Like, just not. nowadays, you know, being really conscious of it and wanting them to be conscious of it. Right. I think that very similar. I don't have kids. I don't plan to have them. But I really, I love kids. I feel like I can relate to them. I don't know what that says about me, but probably immature. The way I look at it is like I have cooks in my kitchen. And the team in which I have right now all learn very differently. And my job as their leader, in your job as a mother, is to say, okay, I'm going to pay attention. I'm going to care of. enough to understand how you learn. Right. And how best you're going to receive information.

So you have X amount of cooks. And some people like constant guidance. They want me to stand next to them. They want me to text them all the time. They want me to check in. And in some ways, you know, the other person next door to them is saying, well, fuck, if you did that to me, I'd feel micromanaged. And I'm like, okay. So you got to figure it out. And I feel like my mom always knew that I didn't want to be spoken to like get me like do this do this i wouldn't do it i would lash out i would misbehave but what she did know at the time and what she did give to me is just she kind of watched from a a distance if anything got too troublesome i.e my chicago days she would step in pull me out of it and say we're going to shift gears and i think as a mom to your children is also understanding how they learn whether it's

through observation or when they get older it's a very simple conversation like how do you feel when i do this okay well it doesn't make you feel good so let's try the other thing and you know I think I don't know how old are your children mine seven six and three I remember when I was six I don't remember when I was three but like that's first grade like you're surrounded by other kinds of people and you're learning more about yourself and how best I guess you react to kids in the playground or you know if you get angry if someone comes and steals your toy or if you're like that's okay and so you know I believe everything is based off of modeling the right behavior. And then until you, someone wants to talk to you about or your kid, it was like, hey, mom, I don't like when you do that. Up until that point, it's just

kind of, again, modeling the behavior of saying, this is what you should be doing and this is the right thing. Right. It's tough. It is hard. It is really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Being a mom, I can't even, I think a lot of reasons I don't want children is because I don't want to fuck it up. And I fully understand that. But it's hard. Yeah. You and your wife, agree on that, though. You both kind of like talked about that before and stuff. We did. You know, she, she's in the camp of, Kristen, don't ever say no to anything in this world. Right. Like, because then you are telling the universe, you're shut off, don't even come near me anymore. And so I was like, okay, heard that. So not right now, but not right now is probably going to

need the answer for a very long time. Not right ever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get that. But yeah. Yeah. The lot goes into it. A lot that's go into it. But, you know, it's always fascinating to me. The people that choose not to are the only ones that I'm like, and that was such a well-thought-out decision, you would be a good mom. You know what I mean? Like, why don't more people think like that?

Can I ask you a question about being a mom? Yeah. So there's a lot of people that are like, well, my mom, for example, I knew I wanted to be a mom. And obviously, being in a relationship with another woman, we can't have an oopsies. and, you know, it has to be very much a plant. But do you, one, my first question is that, did you know that you wanted to be a mom? And then two, when you did become a mom,

is it truly that love that no one can ever prepare you for? Absolutely. It's kind of crazy because, you know, people say it and you're like, okay. But then it happens and you're like, oh, fuck. Like, I'm fucked because I could never love anything in this world more than this little being that just popped out of, my vagina or your stomach or whatever. But it's the craziest feeling. And I always knew I wanted to be a mom, always. But it's an instant thing as soon as you have that baby. And I know women have different

experiences, you know, there's postpartum. Like, there's all of that stuff that comes along with it. But the love that is there, it's also terrifying. Horrifying. Like, we talk about it all the time, how much fear there is in it. Because if anything ever happened, to this being that is your absolute world and you would never love anything like it, it's a little scary. But that's the work we do, you know? Like, you can't be in that mindset all the time. You can't live in fear because what does that do? You know, fear is toxic. It's, it's this poison essentially, you know, inside you. And if you give into that and you live by that, what kind of life is that? Because then you're constantly just afraid to do anything.

But so yes, being a mom and the love, that's why it's worth it. I always knew. I always knew. And I feel like when I first had my first son and he was breastfeeding, I got this feeling like someone just handed me the keys to meet God. Like it was such a opening, heart opening. The love is, there's no words that can explain it. It's life changing. It's completely life-changing. And utterly fucked because it really is. Like we do that all the time, Rachel and I look at each other and go, why did we do this to ourselves?

Why? Like there's been things that have happened with my kids where I'm like, I would like to call everyone who doesn't have a child and tell them, please don't. Like, this is too much. This is too much love, too much fear, too much whatever. But I've also, we've been talking about this, like my heart has always wanted to adopt too. Yeah, we have been talking about it lately because I think it's amazing and awesome and it's a beautiful thing. And we're like, you know, and I'm 40 now. So, you know, if I want another kid, it'll probably be that.

You know what I mean? Right. And my daughter's super cool and she's seven. You know, your brother was eight when you were dead? Yes. Yeah. How was your relationship? Our relationship is very special.

And having such a large age gap, I think, is a really good thing. So there is this time in life where the older kid goes off and is like becoming an adult, well, this other one is still kind of stuck in adolescence. And so during that phase, it was love at a distance. I'm sure there are all the times where I was the annoying little sister that just wouldn't live, him and his friends alone. But my mom's favorite thing to say is that when you got off that airplane, like when I was carried off the airplane and was placed in her arms, my brother was like, give her to me.

Stop it. And there's a picture of him in the airport holding me, feeding me in the Detroit Metro Airport. I can't. And he is everything that I feel like an older brother should be. So he looks after me. He borrowed money from me because I never spent money as a child and, you know, all that shit. I will never free. He at one point when I was still working in kitchens, not making a lot of money.

And I think collectively the whole family was like, God, is she going to be okay? He started a savings account for me because he was working. He was like successfully. He's an engineer and doing all this stuff. And he started an account for me. And every Christmas and birthday, he would, he just said, Chris, I'm he's going to put money in it. That's going to be your gift.

And that's the kind of brother he is. And if that doesn't paint a picture of who he is, I think, he just, he's special. And honestly, I mean, he's special because my parents are special and just like, they're good people. Hold on, I have to show you a picture. Yeah. Yeah.

Literally. We need the visual. We're coming to think. Thanksgiving. Uninvited. And I want to know what your side dishes are. They are the greatest, like, the greatest. Anyway, so I dedicated my cookbook to them. So you just have context of who they are. Oh, man. Yeah, Olivia was just saying, we're coming to Thanksgiving, even uninvited. You're done. I hope that's okay. Wait, do you have to cook all of Thanksgiving? Or is it like still in your parents' or how does that work?

So obviously, with COVID and everything, everything's kind of slowed down. And for a couple years, obviously I was at my restaurant. Well, it's still very, very new. But I've gone home mostly for Kristen. My parents are now retired. They're in Florida. My brother still lives in Michigan. And I went to Michigan and it was very like, Kristen, we don't want you to cook.

And then they all know if I see something going wrong or I'm like, God, that's going to be disgusting or not even disgusting. That's not going to turn out how it needs to turn out. then I'm going to, I can't help myself. I'm going to step in. And so I remember I taught my brother how to do a turkey. So I was like, you just can't put salt pepper on it and throw it in the oven and hope everything's going to be fine. What do you do?

And so I would, sorry. I'm like, wait a minute. I, no, you got to create it like a compound butter and you got to like move it all over. And put it under the skin. Yeah. You got to put it under the skin. And you also have to know where to layer up that fat and when to open the oven to baste it. Dude.

Because certain parts need to be based at different times than another part. So it's constant base. be sitting. Do you care that we're going to be best friends now because I'm going to be done. Can I text you all the time? I will, if you have any cooking questions, I'm happy to help you and truly because I think. But I also just want to be your best friend. She's like, but nothing else. Don't come to me with any of that other shame. But I literally like, I just, if you're ever here, I'm, yes. Yeah. We will, we will cook. We'll hang out. We'll do non-cooking things. It'll be great. But you don't get fancy on Thanksgiving, do you? Because I hate it when it tastes different.

No. Okay. Good. My favorite food, honest to God, is green bean casserole. Me too. Like the old school French onions, green beans. Oh, yeah. That's my job at Thanksgiving. It's really easy. So do you do the cut green beans or do you do the French green beans?

We do the French. Yeah. Do you do cut? I grew up with French as an adult. I do cut. So I like both. So you like cut better. Do you know what?

I've had to make my own fried onions because there have been times where I'm in Canada and I'm responsible for this dish. you can't always find the Frenches. Oh, yeah. So I've had to do homemade crispy onion. I was very proud of myself because it seems so impressive, you know, like in the flour and the buttermilk and the, yeah, you like soak it, right? And then you fry it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was impressive. It was like, it was like stepping up the green bean casserole. It was a big deal. We could do that too on fast foodies. That's not, that doesn't take too long to cook green bean casserole. No. Honestly, the food that is most important and I feel like the food that is, you know,

I don't cook for myself. I cook purely for other people. I get no joy out of cooking for party of one. And so when I was opening my restaurant and I was living in Austin in a hotel room for two years, I ordered Uber Eats every single day, multiple times a day. And because going down to my beautiful kitchen and making myself something was just, nothing tastes the same. No. Nothing tastes the same. I agree. I, yeah, I much rather cook for people and then I don't even want to eat it. My mom's the same way. And we're Italian, you know how that goes. And it's just like insanity, food everywhere. But you just don't want to eat it.

You're like, no, this is for you. So basically I would ask, hey, what do you guys want to eat? And you'd be like, okay, well, this is what I want to eat. And then that's what I would make, my version of it. And so like having a box already to cook and perform within is the way to do it. Because otherwise it's just, I don't know, cooking for myself feels sad. And so in that case, I'd rather order ShakeShack or cook, you know, Blue Box Macon Cheese. Right.

Do you cook for your wife, though? I do. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I get joy out of cooking for her. She does cook for me, but we've made a rule. After many times learning, she's a great cook, but she needs a recipe. That she cooks for me if I'm out traveling or something, when I come home, she has something already made. So I need to be out of the kitchen. Got it. Yeah. Right. Because she would be like, just back off, let me do my thing. going. Yeah. Yeah. She gets annoyed with me. So I, otherwise I like, I'm there and I'm watching. And even

if I'm not saying anything, apparently sometimes my eyes are very judgy, I guess. And she's like, you need to like go. And so then she, the joy is taken out of cooking for her. And so now we've kind of created that rule. But yes, I do all the cooking when we're home together. Is what you're going to eat personally drive you in life? Like it drives us? Like this morning is what, 630? seven in the morning. And Rachel's like, I'm thinking about what we're going to order for lunch. And I was like, oh, yeah, I've been thinking about it already. That's how we relate to each other constantly is based on, and other people too. I remember like at 19 years old, my friend Leah went to her families for dinner and I was like, what'd you have? Bakes spaghetti. She's like baked spaghetti.

And I was like, well, what was the side? And she was like, what? I'm like, was there anything on the side? And she's like, peas? And I'm like, was there a salad? or bread or, and she was like, why are you asking me all these questions? You know? That's all we want to know. That's what we want to know. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Do you see your mind think like that? All the time. All the time. All the time. It's about what I'm going to eat, what I want to cook, what I feel like I want to do when I first get off the airplane and I get to Citi A or whatever. Yes. Everything.

There are the people that eat for life, right? They sustain their nutritional values or whatever. I don't understand it. because there is no joy in that for me. And so food is joy and food is love. And food is how I show other people that I care for them. It's just a different language in my world. And being able to feed someone,

whether you're a guest in my restaurant, I'm paying for it, or it's a charity thing, or if I'm cooking for someone that doesn't get food all the time. Like, whatever the case may be, food is just this thing. We took three of us, right? I know you guys have known each other. but like three different people from three very different walks of life. And we all just were like, fuck yeah, green meat casserole.

Like yes. Exactly. Yes. It connects people. Yeah, you're so right. Yeah. Well, here, okay, I really want to know this. Do you have like an absolute favorite dish you've had somewhere anywhere in the world

that like you'd go back every day for? 100%. So the weird thing is that I can't even tell you the restaurant when I went to. But I will tell you what it did for my life from the moment I had that first bite. So I was cooking a lot with my head. I was cooking at a relay chateau property. It was very fancy and like you're trying to like remain on this cusp of like always being different. And I was in Berlin for work.

And I sat at this table and this gorgeous restaurant, you know, tasting menu. And this one course comes up and it's steamed fish, a white fish of some kind, a really silky pomperet and spinach juice or, you know, seasoned with other things. And I sat there and I remember, I was like, fuck, I'm cooking all wrong. Like I'm cooking all wrong. I'm cooking with my head. I'm not cooking with heart and like purpose. And that just shifted the entire view of how I look at food.

And so now food for me is oftentimes pulling from my childhood hamburger helper, hostess cupcakes, different things like that, and just remanovering them into a way that they don't look the same anymore. However, if you're someone from two people from L.A., come to my restaurant by way of Canada, and sit in my restaurant and they have this gorgeous bowl of pasta. And maybe you're like, wait a second, that feels familiar. And you can't put your finger on it.

That's like, that's when the magic happens. Because all of a sudden there's like this unspoken trust. There's a thing that happens. There's, you're already connected. We're in it. And now you're kind of on this journey. And I feel like those are the dishes that I like to make. And I try and I try to make.

Was it the simplicity of that fish dish that kind of like triggered you? it was the simplicity, but more so it was having watched the chef prepare everything, having understood where he comes from, his background. And I was like, he's cooking the way he's cooking. Like, this is shit that his mom used to make him when he was good. A piece of fish, some potatoes and some spinach. Right. And he just turned it into like this technically perfect dish.

But it has so much history and like heart to it. And I was like, I've had a piece of fish with potatoes and vegetables before. are like, huh. And it just gets your mind going. And all of a sudden, the most simple things are, I feel like, the things that connect us all, really. Absolutely. You know, the funny thing for me is, anytime anybody I know is going to Paris, they're like, what should I do?

What should I see? And I'm like, you have to go get this cheeseburger. The best cheeseburger. Oh, I always talk about it. The best cheeseburger I've ever had in my life is in Paris at a restaurant called Ferdie. Have you heard of this? I haven't. No.

restaurant called Ferdy. I feel like I need to write it down. You should write it down. It's recorded too. We can, I'll text you. I'm getting your number. I'm texting you.

But it is the best cheeseburger I've ever had in my life. And so anytime like, oh, Paris, we want to see the sites. We want to go shopping. I'm like, dude, you have to go get this cheeseburger. People are always baffled by it,

but I'm telling you. You do that with any location. Food? Yeah. Like if I'm like, I'm going to, you know, Laguna, you'll be like, okay, on the third. The butter cake at Nick.

Yeah. See, she's gotten it on desk. butter cake and this. Wait, so what's your favorite restaurants in L.A.? Benny Hanna is my whole-time favorite restaurant. Like, that's my last meal. Also, Sue Plantation, which God Rested Soul is gone forever. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

I've never heard of it. It's a buffet place. Oh, great. Lots of variety. The best little blueberry muffins. I'm just telling you. I'm not a big buffet person. Well, I'm not a big buffet person,

but soup plantation was it, it was a beautiful thing. But Benny Hanna is my all-time. Yes, my last meal restaurant. A specific location one? Encino in the Valley where we grew up. I remember before every dance, like as kids, my 16th birthday. It would be that location. I took my daughter this year.

We went there for her birthday. Do you get the butter? Because I actually asked them to not cook it in the butter. You need the butter. Have you? Because it gives you the runs. Yes. Yeah.

It doesn't happen to me. A lot of my friends right after Benny Hanna, they have to run to the bathroom. Like literally in the car. I'm like, You can't breathe. Turn down the music. Don't talk to me. And then I realize if you ask for it or not cooked in the butter, you don't shit your pants. I love the butter and the butter loves me. That's awesome. I love, that was an unexpected answer that I'm very glad that you just said. It's proving the point on so much, right? Right. Green bean casserole. Benny Honoh. I love it. I know. But I definitely want to come to your restaurant in Austin. I have to get to. I've never been to Austin though. I love Austin. But you don't even, you don't live in Austin. But you opened in Austin.

I did. Yeah. So I'm based on the East Coast between New York and Connecticut. And I've always been an East Coast person. But then Austin came about and they're like, hey, do you want to like explore this thing in Austin? And I was like, fine. I've never been to Austin. I was also like, Texas.

Me? No, thank you. And so I got on the airplane and I went to Austin. I was like, shit, this place is pretty great. And I saw the old restaurant. It was like, not cute. And I was like, well, this is the space. And it was just a beautiful space, amazing location.

And it was like, it was time. It was time that I do at my, I guess, my own thing. Yeah. Because I stepped away from restaurants for a long time because I was like, fuck this. Like my life is fine without it. Like I don't need it. Maybe it's similar to like having a kid. You're like, why are you going to do it?

And then you do it and you're like, oh, that's why. Maybe this is going to be the only one. I'm exploring other things. Would you ever consider L.A.? I would. If it were up to my wife, who would be living on the beach in L.A. Oh, nice. Okay, cool.

You're going to come visit us. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. So yeah, you've got to come to Austin. It's honestly a great place. The restaurant's beautiful. Yeah.

We're all best friends now. So just text me whenever you want to come. Absolutely. I mean, that's the only reason I want to go to Austin is number one, your restaurant and to see you if you're there. Yeah. Yeah. Or on the East Coast. Or we can just, we'll meet in New York, Connecticut, L.A.

Sounds good. So many options. So many options. And so many things to eat along the way. Yes. But no butter from Benihana because I do not want you have runs. Yeah. But for you either.

And everybody should save. themselves from the butter. Wait, are you lactose intolerant? Not really. You always go. Serial burps. We talk about this. I do get the cereal burps. If she has milk with their cereal. But I can drink cream in my coffee. I eat ice cream every single night. So I don't think I am. It's just certain people. I mean, I am not one of the unfortunate ones that cannot enjoy the garlic butter. It's not just regular butter. It's like a garlic butter. Have you had Benny on it? I had it once. The white sauce. I like the white sauce. Is that the place?

No, it's, maybe I'm not thinking it. They cook it in front of you. Yeah. And then like the mustard-based one for dipping your seafood or your meat in. But is there a white sauce, like a mayo based sauce? No. And my thing is, oh, I need to go to Benihana is where they cook it in front of you. Yeah, like Cabacci.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Okay. I need to go. You know what's so good about somewhere like Benihana and that I really appreciate in restaurants is when it tastes exactly the same every single time. That's true. And that's...

Consistency is like comforting. Yeah. Although those salad dressing varies from location to location. What? I know it's very troubling. That's not cool. We've gone off the rails once again. But honestly, Kristen, thank you so much for just doing this and talking to us.

I'm seriously like just blown away by you and you're so impressive with everything. But before we go, there's one thing we always do at the end of our interview. is it's fuck Mary kill okay or if that makes you uncomfortable Mary Barry one night stand this was brought to do you know what do you know what have you ever played yes yeah totally so it was brought to our attention that if that's a little too controversial with the aggressive aggressive I think I think it's just the kill that's like yeah you're like oh I don't want to kill someone but bury them like you know they can be buried until live all right so who is it it's Juliet Lewis

Megan Fox and Carrie Washington I don't know who's Julia Lewis Rob was right no Rob thought she would know Julia Lewis but not Patricia Arquette Do you know who Patricia Arquette is?

I do Yeah Let's swap them out Okay so we'll use Patricia Arquette Megan Fox Do you know who Carrie Washington is? Yes And Megan Fox yeah

I would marry Carrie Washington Same I would bury and move to the side, Megan Fotch. Just because I feel like she's gotten a lot of tension recently. Like, let's move over.

Okay. But not for any other reason. And then I guess that would mean I have to fuck Patricia Arquette. You have to fuck her. And look. For the game. Yeah. True romance, Patricia Arquette,

like, I'm down. It's not a penis. It's not, no. Oh, yeah. I'm on board too. Yeah, fully. I would actually do the same thing. Yeah, I agree with you. Yep.

Okay. Great. I love this. Yeah. Right? Or would I fuck married for a lot? I don't know. I might marry Patricia Arquette. Anyway. That would be a hard one. Yeah. Those two are, you can swap them. It's hard. They're interchangeable. But I do like Carrie Washington a lot. She's very cool. Yeah. Very nice person. They're all probably really nice. They're all very, probably very nice people. I would fuck them all. Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you for being so open with us.

Yes, yeah. You're truly amazing and an inspiration and just straight up rad. What's your birth sign? Thank you. Sagittarius. Okay, cool. I like Sagittarius. Yeah. Okay. Wait, can I ask yours? Yeah. Both of yours? I'm a Libra. Virgo. Okay. What's your wife? Aries. Oh, powerful. For sure. My mom and dad were both Aries. My exes and Aries. My baby daddy. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Arias are great people. Which one? I mean, depending on your ex. I'm. I first. I'm not. I'm not. I Get what the other one was.

It doesn't matter. We'll let you go. Gemini, Gemini, Gemini, Gemini, Gemini. You're just so, I mean, I've always thought you're just so fucking cool and you're even more. Well, you guys are wonderful. Aw. I know I don't know you as mothers and I'm sure I will one day, but like you guys are good mothers and good mothers are amazing and like the best human beings and just like there's like a, I don't know, there's like a, there's this like a, there's this like a, there's this thing, right? It's not the maternal instinct.

It's not like this. but it's very much unexplainable, but both of you possess it. So thank you for having me. That's amazing. Thank you so much, honestly. Right back at you. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll see you. I'll see you at Benihana one day. That's, oh, we're going. We're going. We're getting the butter, though. We're getting the butter. Why would you make our shoot her pants?

What's worth it? Those are awesome. Thank you very much. Bye. Let's do the time wolf again. So I have a new best friend. I don't know if she feels the same way, but that's how I feel. We have text each other numbers.

And she even sent me an Ina Garden recipe. So I'm just going to say that we're... You've texted each other's numbers? Yeah, like just now. Like, as we're finishing, we got each other's numbers. 13, 12, 11. Have you used it? Yes, I just said she, and she immediately sent me the Ina Garden recipe.

For the spatchcocking, right? Yeah, it was another spatchcocked chicken. That's right. Yep. Mm-hmm. And also my favorite thing about her is like how she's like, yeah, I throw together the green bean casserole at Thanksgiving because, I mean. That's my favorite. She's like one of those talented chefs in the world. She's like, yep, good old green bean casserole. Don't you think, though, that that's probably why people become chefs is because they have an affinity for the foods. they grew up with? Probably a good guess. Yeah. What made you a foodie, Rob? Like, what was the first thing that turned you on to being an actual foodie? I think it was cooking. You cook? I don't cook as much

anymore just because I don't have as much time to do it. But I like very elaborate, detailed recipe cooking. What was like a go-to for you? Um, I mean, it changed a lot. Like, I've done, I cooked a lot of from Stephanie Azard's cookbook. Mm-hmm. Another top chef fame. She had like a five cheese, apple, and bacon, mac and cheese that I'd make for Christmas a lot. What? Wow. This is ridiculous. When are you cooking for us, Rob?

Yeah. I don't know. Mostly for holidays is when I cook now. Is that still your go-to, the five-chease apple mac and cheese? No, I like to mix it up. I've made that a bunch of times. She's got a really good Chicago winner beef stew. too that I like to make.

Love beef stew. Rachel makes a good beef stew. Beef stew is great. And you're in Chicago now and you've kind of been doing a food tour while you're there. Yeah, I went and did Alinia on Monday.

It looked very fancy. Very fancy. Very, very fancy. And then we went and did Oriel the next night, which was somehow even better. It was another 10-course tasting menu. Are these like Michelin restaurants or what they're doing? Yeah, Alinia's three Michelin stars.

Whoa. And Orioles, too, Michelin stars. Now, is Natalie as into this stuff as you are? Yes, but she skipped a linia because there was a bunch of dairy on it. Oh. But she came to Oriole and they were able to accommodate her. Did you bring the baby? No.

We did not. That was another reason why she skipped a linia. She was going to just skip some dishes, but then she started looking online about people complaining one guest bring babies. That bothers me. Well, of course it does your mom. But like, I get it, but it also bothers me. Does that make sense? That dinner, that was like a show, though, on top of dinner.

It's like Benihana, so it's perfect for kids. But you're paying a shitload of money, so I can see how... I mean, I don't care, but I can see how you have some snobby guests that are not going to appreciate a baby. Do you think that these people have kids? Probably. Illegitimate children, probably. Right. But even if I was going out to a nice dinner, you know, on a date with my husband and we didn't have our kids, I wouldn't be bothered by someone else's kid because I'd be like, yeah, I get it.

But I feel like if you don't have kids, you're like, shut that thing up. There was a pregnant lady next to us at dinner, and it was fine. What? You can't hear the baby from inside. What do you even mean? Do you feel that way on airplanes, though? if you're like, let's say you are sitting in business or first class and there is a baby. Are you a person that is uncomfortable with that?

This happened to us on the flight to Chicago. What? You were the person with the baby? No, no, no. Both of our kids were totally great and fine. And there was a two-year-old in the seat in front of us just screaming the whole time. And how'd you feel? I just put my headphones on and put it louder.

And I mean, I have more empathy for. them because we have two kids and could easily have been in that same boat. I think Natalie also offered to help. Aw. Brestfeed? Yeah, yeah. She just like whipped it out and was. I did try and help someone once, not by breastfeeding, but by offering the mom, I was like, do you want these snacks? Like, I have these snacks and these snacks. And she got offended. She got kind of upset and was like my kid can't eat sugar or processed food. And I was like, oh. Yeah, let's be awful of you to do that. Wait, but now you're that mom. Like, if someone offered you something for Elliott, you're like, oh, he can't eat anything. Yeah,

but I would be super nice. Right. I'd be like, that's so sweet. Thank you so much. She was rude? She was rude. She was like snappy. Like, and I get it now because I'm like, oh, she thinks I was just trying to shut her kid up. Like, here, take this. Oh, okay. You know, so she was kind of like snappy, like I'm doing everything I can. We've talked about this on the podcast before the flying and the babies and the craziness. Yeah, because I said the Jessica Alba flight rules for children. Yeah, it's like a really common thing people deal with. Yeah, absolutely. The pressure to get that baby on your boob, like playing up and playing down, I felt that so wholeheartedly every time we would fly. It was very intense. I spoke with someone

recently. I saw that they were breastfeeding their child and I was like, oh, you're still breastfeeding. I was just asking casually, the kid is four. And she said, yeah, I'm doing baby-led weaning. So the baby would wean when it wants to. And she said, hopefully she'll do it before age seven. Before age seven? Yeah. Some Game of Thrones shit.

Yeah, it's interesting, though, because I'm a firm believer in like, you know, no judgment, stigma, whatever. With breastfeeding, you do what works for you. and I do wholeheartedly believe that. But, you know, Breyer was three, and people look at me like, oh, you're weird or that's crazy, you know. I mean, seven. Seven's old. That's Breyer. Like, that's old.

That's old. Yeah. I was shocked. I was like, oh, wow. Okay. She was like, there's tons of research on it. And I think she's a nurse. So she probably knows more than I do, but I was a little surprised.

I think kids would probably like to do it as long as possible because it's like, what's more comforting than that, I guess. I don't know. Rob, what do you think? I mean, seven seems a little bit old. I don't care, though. If you want to do what you want to do what you want. I feel like there's a lot of judgment, too, with the bottles. And I went through that in the beginning with Shepard because he wouldn't breastfeed, and I would give him a bottle. And I felt like people were judging me for giving him a bottle. It's like, no matter what you do, you damned if you do, you damned if you don't. I'm always reading all that mom shaming stuff, you know, and I'm like, man, everyone's just doing. doing the best they can, trying to survive the fucking day.

Right. And nobody knows anyone's story. No one knows anyone's story. They didn't know how hard Rob fought to get into that restaurant, and he wanted his wife there, but she would have to bring a baby. Or it could have been like a Benjamin Button kid that looked older and was really like one in a half. But doesn't eat. He's good for the food.

stuck up. Yeah. He was like, no. Yeah, no one knows when Chloe and Tristan conceived that surrogate baby. Exactly. Chloe and Tristan. Well, when is it too? So, did you read about this? No, I didn't. Who the hell are Chloe and Tristan? Okay, so Chloe Cardassian and Tristan Thompson, right? So he is her baby's daddy. Baby daddy. And he, I don't know, they were together and it came out that he fathered a child with another woman, but he was in a relationship with Chloe. Anyways, this just happened this past year. And then just the other day in the news,

it came out that they are having their second child together via surrogate. Now, what I read was something like it was conceived in November, and I think the other baby news came out in, like, December or something. So I'm thinking, I don't really know that maybe she didn't know when they had the plans, or maybe she did know, and she just wanted another baby. Honestly, I didn't judge for a second. I was like, I get it.

She wants another kid with the dad, like, you know? Right. What if he's a great father? He just can't keep it in his pants, but he's a really good father. He's going to be a father to her other kid anyways. Right. Maybe he's a good co-parent.

Right. Nobody knows. No one knows. She's carrying the baby or someone else is? No, a surrogate. A surrogate. A surrogate. With her eggs?

Yeah. Yeah. Her, and presumably, that's, yeah, her egg and his sperm and they're having another baby. They accidentally placed it into this other woman, is what you're saying? No, there was another woman separate from the surrogate in their pregnancy. There was another woman who had a baby from him while he and Chloe were together. Chloe did not know this. Right, like he cheated on her and got another woman pregnant.

Right. Thank you for explaining it. So everybody's in an uproar like, oh my God, they're having another baby even though he cheated on her and got another woman pregnant. It's like, okay. Yeah. My first reaction was like, she wants another kid from the same dad. I get it. Like, you know what I mean? They're not together then is what this is also assuming?

I mean, I'm presumably they're not together. I don't know. I don't know, Chloe. Can't call her up. But I don't think they're together. But I think a lot of people's reactions are like, what the, you know, hell is she? doing. And I'm like, there's so many people judge. And it's like, you don't know. You don't know. So, you don't. I just have, you know, empathy for her position. I have empathy for that position

because it's really, you know, nobody's business, what people do with their bodies. Exactly. And one more thing I want to say. Olivia, never being like out there in this way, in this capacity, whatever, has been reading some reviews of our podcast. And when she reads them, it makes her feel really bad. Understandably so, you know, you read negative things about you. And granted, I've, you know, been around it for a little while now and I know how to ignore it. And people can be really, really mean and for no reason. And judgey and mean and all of that. And now she's dealing with it. And she'll send messages that she reads, even though I told her, please stop reading any comments or reviews or messages.

And now it's made her feel bad because somebody is out there being an asshole, like critiquing the way she talks, like literally how she enunciates words. And it's like, you know what? People, you don't know what goes on in someone's life.

You don't know what someone's dealing with. You don't know anything and you're judging and you're doing this. And it's fucked up, man. That's just got to say it. That's my little best friend right there. Well, you just don't know. You know?

People don't know people. It's true. And I just, it's very frustrating. I watched an episode of a show called, what is it called? Mind, something that Elliot watches. Fast, fast foodies. No. But that's a great show, fast foodies.

What is it called? I don't know. It's a show for kids. Brainchild? Yeah. And they did an episode on social media and bullying and how if people think you're not going to see it or they're not going to be seen for doing it, that they'll say the meanest things. But if it's actually in front of someone's face, they wouldn't do that. And I think that that's what

happens, you know, is when you go on the internet, they think that they're like just shouting at a big open hole and that there's no actual human attached to it. I'm going to stop reading the comments. You know, it's tricky though, because then there's a lot of really beautiful comments that touch my heart and soul. So I'm like, you know, and... Yeah, but you remember those bad ones more than the good ones, probably. Right. Exactly. And we've talked about this. We talked about this, you know, recently. But what if, here's a question for both of you, because you've been doing this for so long, what if there's things that are actually constructive? No, but we've talked about this.

And the things that you're reading are not constructive. They're just mean for means sake. Like, there's no point to it. There's nothing to learn from it. You know, it's just someone being, being an asshole. Someone will read it that doesn't have to be you that'll weed out any constructive bits. Who? Like me or Casper or some other people from the show. We won't let any golden ideas slip through in the comments. Well, no, because, you know, I was actually listening to a podcast today with Jeff.

He's doing this new job and we listened to their podcast and they had this guy on, I think his name is Luke's story. It was a really good podcast. It made me never want to drink water from a filter again. Oh. But, yeah, it's kind of disgusting. What do you mean? What can you elaborate on that? Oh, yeah.

He was talking about how he only drinks fresh spring water. Uh-huh. And if you think about this, this is really disturbing. But that every time you drink a glass water that's just regular water filtered, it's like thousands and thousands of people's shit and dirty heroin needles and condoms. And all, it's all. What are the sources of this? This is just tap water?

Yes, tap water. Like tap water? And if I have a filter attached to it. No good. Literally, he put in the thing where you can get your spring water. Listen to it. It's on the next health podcast, Luke Story. And then on Luke Story's thing, he's got like a six-hour thing on the toxins from tap water.

It's disturbing. So what you're saying is I need my Mountain Valley spring water to deliver. There's regulations, though, on tap water. L.A. has some of the cleanest and strictest regulations. Yeah, but it's still water that's filtered from people's shit. What? Yes. What do you mean?

Toilet water? All of the water, even the water you're showering in and bathing in, it's got tons of toxins. Rachel's going to be bathing with bottled water now. Dude, I'm going to order it. He gets his delivered, like spring water delivered. I am going to do it. That sounds very expensive. Yeah, that sounds very expensive.

great all that plastic he's adding. Well, Mountain Valley Springwater, it comes in glass, I just want to say. I guess he doves into it for like six hours on his podcast. I haven't gone that deep, but I'm going to. Anyways, the point is he said that he was listening to someone comment.

Someone was writing mean comments to him and they were like, I really like your podcast, but you cussed so much that I find it offensive. And he's like, my first reaction was fuck you. Oh, fuck you. Right? And he's like, but then I thought about it. And I was like, you know what? Thank you for that. Like, maybe that is something that I can

look at and grow from and yada yada. And I was like, that's a really good way of taking criticism and using it for you rather than against you. So I'm not sure if reading negative things is just toxic or can you use it to improve upon things. Is that why you've had a New York accent this whole recording? You're trying to enunciate differently. You sound like you're from London. Yeah. No reading. Just don't.

I'm just going to just don't. And if you start to and it's negative. I promise we'll let you know the good bits. I don't want to know. Don't tell me. I'm kidding. I get the good bits. The people that give the good bits to DM really nice, beautiful messages.

Oh my God, this is funny. I didn't tell you guys this. This is funny. So someone DMs me and put spiritual psychology is not a thing with their hand over their head emoji. And I got all defensive. And I was like, it is. So I sent a link to my school. I know I'm not supposed to engage with people.

You couldn't help it. But I sent the link. I couldn't help it. I sent the link. And I was very kind. And I was like, it actually is a study. It's really beautiful. Sent it.

And she wrote back. And she's like, no, no, no. I meant the spelling in your body. And I had it spelled wrong. You are the world's worst speller. And listen, that is negative and I'm sorry, but you know it. I know that. I'm dyslexic.

Like, I get it. I have learning disabilities. I understand. Yeah. I laughed so hard. I was like, here I was taking it in this defensive way and painting this story. And she was actually really being kind. And then I wrote her back.

And I was like, I'm actually dyslexic and did not catch that. and I really thank you. And then she was like, I want to thank you for your podcast. Like, I love the way you guys. She was totally kind and I mistook. See that? That reminds me of the Brunei Brown story

about her swimming with her husband in the lake. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. That stuck with me. The water's fine. Or what is it? Yeah. Where she had that whole story in her head

that it was something negative and he didn't want to like swim with her or something. Anyway. Yes. That's what that reminds me of. I think it's the water's fine. Yeah. the water's fine. Anyway, look that up. I forget what that special is called, but it was very helpful to me.

Is it the power of vulnerability? Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, it's in one of her TED Talks. Yeah, one of her TED Talks. Green Bean Casserol to Brnay Brown Ted Talks. We ran the gamut. Kristen's awesome. Awesome. Let's go to Austin. Let's do it. I want to go to her restaurant. I really do. It's go in August. I can go in August. In August? Yeah. Let's go. fun. I love it. I love you guys. That's what I love. I love you. I hope that we can have Kristen on again. I would like to go to a taping of Iron Chef. I mean, that sounds fun. Let's just put that out there, Kristen. Kristen, I mean, not to put any pressure, but like, can we come? I would like to do that. Me too. I would also like to thank everybody for listening and for not criticizing meanly,

if you can help it. Thank you so much. Love you. Okay, bye. podcast.